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| chuckh | hi Troy, I'm going to run through your steps for bzr. Thinking of running it on Edgy. Your run down should still apply pretty closely don't you think? | 01:49 |
|---|---|---|
| chuckh | troy_s: Well, looks like I'll get it. Right now it's just sitting there doing not much of anything. Maybe it's usually this slow, I guess I wouldn't know. | 02:18 |
| troy_s | sorry | 02:24 |
| troy_s | i only get flagged when you type my full irc name troy_s | 02:25 |
| troy_s | greets by the way chuckh | 02:25 |
| troy_s | Chuckles? | 02:26 |
| chuckh | greetings. Well, lets see. It's sitting at phase 0/4 and has been | 02:26 |
| troy_s | if you get a handle on mastering bzr checkout | 02:26 |
| troy_s | ok | 02:26 |
| troy_s | weird... | 02:26 |
| troy_s | it shouldn't be taking quite that long. | 02:26 |
| troy_s | are you trying that blubuntu sample i sent? | 02:27 |
| chuckh | no, it's been 5 min | 02:27 |
| troy_s | _way_ too long | 02:27 |
| troy_s | ctrl c it... | 02:27 |
| troy_s | lets see if i can resolve the issue... blubuntu? | 02:27 |
| chuckh | at present legacyhuman though I had tried blubuntu and had the same results | 02:27 |
| === klepas [n=klepas@202-161-19-16.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
| troy_s | weird. | 02:28 |
| troy_s | is fetch showing a progress bar? | 02:28 |
| troy_s | it should show 1/4 with a progress bar. | 02:29 |
| chuckh | yes but it's blank | 02:29 |
| chuckh | 0/4 with a blank bar | 02:29 |
| chuckh | this is on Edgy, would it matter? | 02:29 |
| troy_s | ok... i dont think you require to register your ssh key | 02:29 |
| troy_s | no | 02:29 |
| troy_s | i am on feisty... | 02:29 |
| troy_s | oh crap | 02:29 |
| troy_s | erm | 02:29 |
| troy_s | maybe | 02:29 |
| troy_s | but i doubt it. | 02:29 |
| troy_s | i think i pulled from feisty on edgy etc. | 02:29 |
| troy_s | oh damn | 02:30 |
| troy_s | you might need to issue a bzr init | 02:30 |
| troy_s | as your first go before you get tumbling... | 02:30 |
| troy_s | so try | 02:30 |
| chuckh | just like that | 02:30 |
| troy_s | bzr init | 02:30 |
| troy_s | then the pull | 02:30 |
| troy_s | yeah give it a shot | 02:30 |
| chuckh | waiting | 02:30 |
| troy_s | tell me if it still stalls at 1/4 | 02:30 |
| troy_s | you just recently apt-got bzr right? | 02:31 |
| chuckh | even just getting to that stage takes forever | 02:31 |
| troy_s | so you are toying with the newest repo version i take it. | 02:31 |
| troy_s | it can. | 02:31 |
| troy_s | i don't know what is going on behind the scenes, but it does sometimes take a while. | 02:31 |
| chuckh | got an error. ubuntu directory exists. I'll remove it and try again. | 02:31 |
| troy_s | ah | 02:31 |
| troy_s | yeah just rm-rf it | 02:31 |
| troy_s | in fact, if you are going to bother, you might as well checkout the legacy human then you can apply your patch | 02:32 |
| chuckh | that is what I was thinking of doing. I'm still at 0/4 with a blank progress bar. | 02:33 |
| troy_s | well wtf? | 02:34 |
| troy_s | shouldn't take that long. | 02:34 |
| troy_s | give it a minute then we sort it out. | 02:34 |
| troy_s | usually the network lights blink during that | 02:34 |
| troy_s | are yours? | 02:34 |
| chuckh | well, I can tell the traffic is zip. If they are it's from something else. | 02:35 |
| troy_s | let me test the legacy-human link | 02:39 |
| troy_s | where is the bzr location you are using for it? | 02:39 |
| chuckh | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu | 02:39 |
| chuckh | I grabbed it off launchpad | 02:40 |
| troy_s | okie trying it... | 02:41 |
| troy_s | nope... leeches right away for me. | 02:41 |
| troy_s | something strange going in at your end. | 02:41 |
| troy_s | in another term, see if anything is in your ~/ubuntu directory | 02:41 |
| chuckh | got an error finally. | 02:42 |
| chuckh | bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AssertionError: | 02:42 |
| troy_s | wow | 02:42 |
| troy_s | that is a problem... i wonder if there are some strange depends -- you just did apt-get install bzr and that was all eh? | 02:43 |
| chuckh | came from python. Let me try another machine. I may have a strange build environment here. | 02:43 |
| troy_s | try removing it then re apt-get it. | 02:43 |
| troy_s | yes... | 02:43 |
| troy_s | very well a python issue! | 02:43 |
| troy_s | i'll be around chuck, going to play a card game with my daughter for a few moments. | 02:43 |
| troy_s | see if you can fix your python issue. | 02:43 |
| troy_s | then i'll show you how to push | 02:43 |
| chuckh | worked on another machine that's more of a default setup | 02:46 |
| chuckh | almost missed it because it was so fast. | 02:46 |
| chuckh | ;) | 02:46 |
| === z_diver [n=chuckh@ip68-109-65-130.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
| troy_s | so chuckh, whilst i am playing, have a peek over the | 02:56 |
| troy_s | structure | 02:56 |
| troy_s | you can also pull like this "bzr checkout <Source> <dest>" | 02:57 |
| chuckh | ok | 02:57 |
| chuckh | that'll be needed | 02:57 |
| z_diver | troy_s, It's chuck again on the machine with the working bzr install. I've verified the gtkrc works on Fiesty. | 02:58 |
| z_diver | But Legacy Human isn't there anymore. | 02:58 |
| troy_s | ??? | 02:58 |
| troy_s | legacy human isn't in that checkout? | 02:59 |
| z_diver | yeah, but I don't think it's installed by default at least | 02:59 |
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| troy_s | it is probalby in extra themes | 03:00 |
| troy_s | needless to say, you can apply your fix | 03:00 |
| z_diver | the checkout worked fine though. | 03:00 |
| z_diver | so what's the best way to go about it. | 03:00 |
| troy_s | it is very simple | 03:01 |
| troy_s | just change the file in question | 03:01 |
| troy_s | bzr add basically will put a full list of files | 03:01 |
| z_diver | troy_s, bzr add <path to project on launchpad>? | 03:04 |
| troy_s | ok | 03:19 |
| troy_s | so back | 03:19 |
| troy_s | lets assume we have dir foobar | 03:19 |
| troy_s | bzr init | 03:19 |
| troy_s | do a bzr whoami to see who you are registered as | 03:19 |
| troy_s | okie? | 03:19 |
| troy_s | is the information correct?, if not, follow the instructions 'bzr whoami 'Joe Blow <j.b@gorg.com>' | 03:20 |
| troy_s | okie z_diver ? | 03:20 |
| troy_s | assuming we have say | 03:20 |
| troy_s | ~/foobar | 03:20 |
| troy_s | as your project directory | 03:20 |
| troy_s | with subfiles a, b and c | 03:20 |
| troy_s | bzr will ONLY track | 03:20 |
| troy_s | files added via bzr add | 03:20 |
| troy_s | which means that for an existing branch, you need do nothing UNLESS you are adding a fresh file | 03:21 |
| troy_s | in your case, you will probably just update files for the first bit | 03:21 |
| troy_s | which means that bzr already knows what belongs in that package | 03:21 |
| z_diver | i'm here now | 03:22 |
| z_diver | troy_s, whoami comes out correct, I ran bzr add <the_gtkrc_file_in_question> | 03:24 |
| troy_s | ok | 03:25 |
| troy_s | erm | 03:25 |
| troy_s | you don't need to add it | 03:25 |
| troy_s | because technically it is already part of the download | 03:25 |
| troy_s | follow me? | 03:26 |
| z_diver | k | 03:26 |
| troy_s | you pulled it, so you know that bzr already knows abou tit | 03:26 |
| troy_s | so first thing | 03:26 |
| troy_s | do you have an ssh public key registered at launchpad? | 03:26 |
| z_diver | probably not | 03:26 |
| troy_s | that is the only thing you will require to publish to launchpad's bazaar | 03:26 |
| troy_s | ok... go to your launchpad page | 03:26 |
| troy_s | to generate a key, we'll use ssh keygen | 03:27 |
| troy_s | erm | 03:27 |
| troy_s | ssh-keygen | 03:27 |
| z_diver | MY launchpad page? | 03:27 |
| troy_s | yes | 03:27 |
| troy_s | what is your launchpad logon? | 03:28 |
| troy_s | let me look | 03:28 |
| z_diver | chuck@lagunadata.com | 03:28 |
| troy_s | what is your launchpad id? | 03:28 |
| troy_s | as in launchpad.net/~? | 03:28 |
| troy_s | mine for example, is launchpad.net/~troy-sobotka | 03:28 |
| troy_s | ah got you | 03:29 |
| troy_s | https://launchpad.net/~chuck-lagunadata | 03:29 |
| troy_s | okie? | 03:29 |
| troy_s | so your id right now is set to | 03:29 |
| troy_s | chuck-lagunadata | 03:29 |
| troy_s | okie? | 03:29 |
| troy_s | go there, on the left pane you will see your ssh and gpg keys | 03:29 |
| troy_s | for now, select ssh | 03:29 |
| troy_s | and we will input a key | 03:30 |
| troy_s | the public half | 03:30 |
| troy_s | got it? | 03:31 |
| z_diver | yes | 03:31 |
| troy_s | z_diver: you there yet? | 03:31 |
| z_diver | yep | 03:31 |
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| z_diver | I've made keys, getting the public | 03:31 |
| troy_s | wow... | 03:31 |
| troy_s | ok | 03:31 |
| troy_s | so just put your public ssh key (id_rsa.pub or whatever from .ssh) | 03:31 |
| troy_s | when you have your published ssh key, let me know | 03:33 |
| troy_s | now when you make a change, you need to issue a commit. this won't do bugger all until you push the changes. | 03:34 |
| troy_s | bzr commit -m "Your full explanation of the commit." | 03:34 |
| troy_s | If you omit the -m, bzr will automatically launch an editor and let you put in a larger comment. | 03:34 |
| troy_s | with? | 03:34 |
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| z_diver | troy_s, alright the keys are up there. Do I need to undo the bzr add <myfile> that I did or will that not cause any harm | 03:37 |
| troy_s | depends | 03:37 |
| troy_s | your bzr add is relative to the directory | 03:37 |
| troy_s | so if you simply re-added the same file | 03:37 |
| troy_s | it shouldn't be an issue | 03:37 |
| z_diver | correct | 03:37 |
| troy_s | there is a bzr list command somewhere | 03:37 |
| troy_s | to see the file listing | 03:37 |
| z_diver | tha'ts what I did | 03:37 |
| troy_s | ok should be ok | 03:37 |
| troy_s | try the push now | 03:37 |
| z_diver | brz pulls up a few | 03:37 |
| z_diver | k | 03:37 |
| troy_s | after a bzr init (already done) | 03:37 |
| troy_s | you do your commit | 03:38 |
| troy_s | with comment | 03:38 |
| troy_s | bzr commit -m 'Blah' | 03:38 |
| troy_s | bzr push sftp://<yourID>@bazaar.launchpad.net/~<yourID/yourTeam>/<product>/<branchname> | 03:38 |
| troy_s | and that's it. | 03:38 |
| z_diver | from within the directory | 03:38 |
| troy_s | pretty simple | 03:38 |
| troy_s | yes | 03:38 |
| troy_s | bzr commit from the directory | 03:38 |
| troy_s | then push | 03:38 |
| troy_s | from the root of the directory | 03:38 |
| troy_s | in this case the <yourID/yourTeam> will match the same one you pulled from | 03:39 |
| troy_s | basically the same address | 03:39 |
| troy_s | if you made some radical changes, you could append -chuck to the branchname for later merging | 03:39 |
| troy_s | and thanks to daniel's automated procedure that him and frank banged out | 03:40 |
| troy_s | every half hour the packages will get built and shipped. | 03:40 |
| z_diver | wow how cool! | 03:41 |
| troy_s | tell me if you are met with success? | 03:41 |
| z_diver | bzr commit gave me an error | 03:41 |
| troy_s | what was the error? | 03:41 |
| troy_s | probably about that double add? | 03:41 |
| z_diver | cannot lock | 03:41 |
| troy_s | try the bzr init | 03:41 |
| z_diver | bzr init | 03:41 |
| troy_s | yes | 03:41 |
| z_diver | woops | 03:41 |
| troy_s | ;) | 03:42 |
| z_diver | wrong window | 03:42 |
| troy_s | it werk? | 03:42 |
| z_diver | new error Error alread a branch | 03:42 |
| z_diver | hmm | 03:43 |
| troy_s | hmm... maybe we can't push direct | 03:43 |
| troy_s | try putting -chuck on it | 03:43 |
| troy_s | and then we can notify daniel | 03:43 |
| z_diver | ok | 03:43 |
| troy_s | it is possible that the mains are locked. | 03:43 |
| troy_s | but i am not certain | 03:43 |
| troy_s | (it might be that daniel needs to permit ax to the mains) | 03:43 |
| z_diver | ok, so do i add gtkrc-chuck or something? | 03:44 |
| troy_s | there might be a merge tool | 03:44 |
| troy_s | no | 03:44 |
| troy_s | just establish your own branch with the changes. | 03:44 |
| troy_s | but let me look into it, | 03:44 |
| troy_s | manning bzr | 03:44 |
| troy_s | for now, let's push to .chuck or -z_diver or something | 03:46 |
| troy_s | and we will get a resolution tomorrow from daniel on how to push direct | 03:46 |
| troy_s | once you push, let me know and I'll see if i can see the revisiosn | 03:46 |
| z_diver | so how should I do that | 03:47 |
| troy_s | offer your commit via pushing | 03:48 |
| troy_s | but push to | 03:48 |
| troy_s | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/z_diver | 03:49 |
| troy_s | perhaps | 03:49 |
| troy_s | try that | 03:49 |
| z_diver | troy_s, would it be bzr push <local_directory> <remote> | 03:49 |
| troy_s | no it is the fully qualified package name | 03:49 |
| troy_s | erm crap | 03:49 |
| troy_s | obviously with your id on the head instead of the brainded http paste i did | 03:50 |
| troy_s | bzr push sftp://<yourID>@bazaar.launchpad.net/~<yourID/yourTeam>/<product>/<branchname> | 03:50 |
| troy_s | that's the full syntax | 03:50 |
| troy_s | so as a guess | 03:50 |
| troy_s | you tried | 03:50 |
| troy_s | bzr push sftp://chuck-lagunadata@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu correct? | 03:51 |
| z_diver | lets see | 03:51 |
| troy_s | is that what you tried when you got the 'oops already branch' error? | 03:51 |
| troy_s | ??? | 03:52 |
| z_diver | no. This looks to be working | 03:52 |
| troy_s | in the syntax i just gave? | 03:52 |
| z_diver | darn. mailto:sftp://chuck-lagunadata@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu | 03:52 |
| troy_s | mailto? | 03:53 |
| z_diver | wait that's wrong | 03:53 |
| troy_s | wtf? | 03:53 |
| z_diver | no that's how xchat copied your link | 03:53 |
| z_diver | I didn't use it that way. | 03:53 |
| z_diver | hang on | 03:53 |
| z_diver | bzr: ERROR: Parent directory of sftp://chuck-lagunadata@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu does not exist. | 03:53 |
| troy_s | bzr push sftp://chuck-lagunadata@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu | 03:53 |
| troy_s | erm | 03:53 |
| z_diver | that's the correct errror | 03:53 |
| troy_s | how strange is that. | 03:54 |
| troy_s | it shouldn't realistically be giving that error... | 03:54 |
| troy_s | try the /z_diver instead of ubuntu | 03:54 |
| z_diver | k | 03:54 |
| troy_s | we need to figure out the official pushes issue. | 03:54 |
| z_diver | interesting | 03:55 |
| z_diver | permission denied. I think the lagunadata was correct then, no? | 03:55 |
| troy_s | bzr push sftp://chuck-lagunadata@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/z_diver | 03:57 |
| troy_s | your id wouldn't change | 03:57 |
| z_diver | trying that | 03:57 |
| z_diver | z_diver directory doesn't exist, hmmm | 03:57 |
| troy_s | and the original ubuntu one didn't work? | 03:58 |
| troy_s | from within the local ~/ubuntu | 03:58 |
| z_diver | i'll try again | 03:58 |
| troy_s | dir on your computer? | 03:58 |
| troy_s | yes... i'll try one. | 03:58 |
| troy_s | at this end... | 03:58 |
| troy_s | i know we are damn close as per the instructions | 03:58 |
| troy_s | andreasn -- | 03:58 |
| troy_s | ping | 03:58 |
| troy_s | andreasn -- when you guys push to Tangerine, what is the format syntax for the bzr push command? | 03:58 |
| z_diver | bzr: ERROR: Parent directory of sftp://chuck-lagunadata@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu does not exist. | 03:59 |
| z_diver | that is from within ubuntu with the correct id offering the following command. | 03:59 |
| z_diver | chuckh@ubuntu:~/ubuntu$ bzr push sftp://chuck-lagunadata@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu | 03:59 |
| troy_s | ok... lets try adding a branch off of it... | 04:00 |
| troy_s | for your revision | 04:00 |
| troy_s | i believe it is bzr help branch | 04:00 |
| z_diver | alright. lookin now | 04:00 |
| troy_s | damn close... in his example he basically created a branch | 04:02 |
| troy_s | but i don't know if we create a branch from the legacyhuman-theme or the full legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu-mybranch | 04:03 |
| z_diver | you have an example handy | 04:03 |
| z_diver | I was going to try the second approach | 04:03 |
| troy_s | i will try one. | 04:04 |
| troy_s | hold on... | 04:04 |
| troy_s | fetching legacy | 04:05 |
| z_diver | so I have downloaded a branch that I called ubuntu-chuckh | 04:07 |
| troy_s | via branch? | 04:08 |
| z_diver | yes | 04:08 |
| z_diver | now I've added my gtkrc to that branch. | 04:08 |
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| z_diver | verified it's correct | 04:08 |
| z_diver | now can I push that up or is that way too much... | 04:09 |
| z_diver | since I only changed the single file? | 04:09 |
| troy_s | it might be the only way since the offical branch appears locked to me. | 04:09 |
| z_diver | k, I'll try | 04:10 |
| troy_s | it might be working | 04:11 |
| troy_s | woop | 04:11 |
| troy_s | i think it worked | 04:11 |
| troy_s | the push is still to the same directory | 04:11 |
| z_diver | same error that the ubuntu-chuckh branch doesn't exist. | 04:11 |
| z_diver | oh | 04:12 |
| z_diver | bzr push sftp://chuck-lagunadata@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu-chuckh | 04:12 |
| z_diver | so that should have been to ubuntu at the end? | 04:12 |
| troy_s | that is what i did | 04:12 |
| troy_s | i did this: | 04:12 |
| troy_s | bzr branch <blahblahblah> ./troy_s | 04:13 |
| troy_s | then cd into troy_s | 04:13 |
| troy_s | adjusted the NEWS file | 04:13 |
| troy_s | bzr commit -m 'Changed NEWS as a test." | 04:13 |
| z_diver | i can tell I did something wrong. I didn't commit in there. | 04:13 |
| troy_s | then bzr push sftp://troy-sobotka@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu | 04:13 |
| troy_s | and it appears to do something | 04:14 |
| troy_s | did it succeed or die? | 04:14 |
| troy_s | because i succeeded but it isn't showing anywhere that i can see. | 04:14 |
| z_diver | mine errored out with the parent directory doesn't exist error | 04:14 |
| z_diver | but let me commit | 04:14 |
| troy_s | try doing the commit using the same syntax i did. | 04:15 |
| troy_s | fer feck sake | 04:18 |
| z_diver | what do you mean. Single quote in front and double behind??? | 04:19 |
| z_diver | anyway, commit seemed to work. Just can't get it to push. still telling me that ERROR: Parent directory of sftp://chuck-lagunadata@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/legacyhuman-theme/ubuntu-chuckh does not exist. | 04:20 |
| troy_s | I borked that | 04:20 |
| troy_s | yes the commit is local | 04:20 |
| troy_s | yes i get that too. | 04:20 |
| troy_s | so clearly we have an issue with something we are borking. | 04:21 |
| z_diver | I've tried with simply ubuntu at the end instead of my branch thinking that that might help. To no avail. | 04:22 |
| troy_s | Yes. | 04:22 |
| troy_s | We are close. I have posted a message to Daniel, which will be resolved tomorrow. | 04:23 |
| troy_s | Hopefully we will be able to start the patch fest shortly. | 04:23 |
| z_diver | ;) | 04:23 |
| troy_s | And kill off a large number of the nonsensical 'bugs' | 04:23 |
| troy_s | As they are easy to fix, we just need the write permission or proper syntax. | 04:23 |
| z_diver | It will brighten the mood, i think | 04:23 |
| troy_s | I know for my own branches, this isn't an issue. | 04:23 |
| troy_s | Well... the mood is irrelevant. The main thing is to keep attempting to illustrate that we are on the same side sab is on. | 04:24 |
| troy_s | It will take time, as I originally was very clear in stating. | 04:24 |
| troy_s | I was looking through the bugs though, and noted that a large number, like your gtkrc example, actually had fixes -- just no legwork to push them through. | 04:24 |
| z_diver | by the mood I meant that the art team. It would be nice to have more participation again | 04:24 |
| troy_s | for example, orro had the open folder svg on his site... so i pushed that up to the thread. | 04:24 |
| troy_s | yes. | 04:25 |
| troy_s | as i said, sabdfl simply won't consider design issues until the team is firing on full cylinders. | 04:25 |
| troy_s | of course, everyone seems to forget that prior to edgy we had a grand total of 17 members on launchpad. | 04:25 |
| troy_s | ;) | 04:25 |
| z_diver | how many are there now? | 04:25 |
| z_diver | how many are there now? | 04:26 |
| troy_s | uh | 04:26 |
| troy_s | 202 | 04:26 |
| troy_s | launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art | 04:26 |
| z_diver | that was a good drive then.... | 04:26 |
| troy_s | not to mention all of the stuff that daniel set up with frank over edgy etc. | 04:26 |
| troy_s | (like automated artwork for all of the packages, etc.) | 04:27 |
| troy_s | it was a very frustrating conclusion. | 04:27 |
| z_diver | true. That was a ton of work | 04:27 |
| troy_s | because i tried to make it clear at the beginning | 04:27 |
| troy_s | to sab et al | 04:27 |
| troy_s | that the goal for edgy will _not_ be the destination attained | 04:27 |
| troy_s | it is the foundation work that is the hard part | 04:27 |
| troy_s | and establishing communication with the devs etc | 04:27 |
| troy_s | hell, prior to edgy, we were not even on the bug listing. | 04:28 |
| z_diver | how did you feel we did on that end? | 04:28 |
| troy_s | i was fine | 04:28 |
| troy_s | it is a matter of one part aesthetics, one part design, one part audience | 04:28 |
| z_diver | I know we may have gotten off track a time or two but as far as getting a foundation setup, I though we did great. | 04:28 |
| troy_s | the reality is that we currently have no target audience per - se. the target audience is one person, which is an unfortunate reality. | 04:28 |
| troy_s | yeah it was fine | 04:28 |
| troy_s | the main flaw was sab not stepping in and steering at the various checkpoints, but i don't know if it was clear in the end after he posted his thoughts. frank's article on linux.com was pretty spot on. | 04:29 |
| troy_s | when he was interviewed. | 04:29 |
| troy_s | again though, you can't expect total magic in 4 months | 04:29 |
| troy_s | considering the time, the place we began, etc, it was all quite above the expectation level -- but unfortunately everyone looked at the final. which was silly. | 04:30 |
| z_diver | When he jumps in from time to time we get an idea of his thinking and I know I was usually somewhat surprised at sabs insight. | 04:30 |
| troy_s | well yes... | 04:30 |
| troy_s | at one point i couldn't believe it | 04:30 |
| troy_s | but i was actually arguing about colour theory with him on the phone | 04:30 |
| troy_s | knowing full well that | 04:30 |
| troy_s | i was arguing with someone with zero art / design background | 04:30 |
| troy_s | which was ... strange. | 04:30 |
| troy_s | alas, again, it will take time. | 04:30 |
| troy_s | and perhaps he will need to see the light himself before things will see change. | 04:31 |
| troy_s | we have a good number of very talented people in the crowd | 04:31 |
| troy_s | as is clear from some of the output of the very few who bothered. | 04:31 |
| z_diver | I'm glad to see you're still at it. You produced a lot of neat stuff that didn't get used at all. | 04:31 |
| troy_s | i think the fundamental problem is that we are _not_ following a traditional design approach -- no audience. | 04:31 |
| troy_s | hence you get 'buttons are too thin' 'colors are ugly' etc. | 04:32 |
| troy_s | nothing to check the designs against | 04:32 |
| troy_s | blah | 04:32 |
| troy_s | it matters not | 04:32 |
| troy_s | my only | 04:32 |
| troy_s | and i mean _only_ regret | 04:32 |
| troy_s | is that i actually bothered to try and guess into the sabdfl aesthetic | 04:32 |
| troy_s | had it been my knowledge from the onset, i probably would have just rambled down the road i thought was more appropriate | 04:32 |
| z_diver | right, that's tough to even attempt | 04:32 |
| troy_s | well... especially to a vacant owner. ;) | 04:33 |
| z_diver | no, i remember that and felt it might even be recognized by sab. | 04:33 |
| troy_s | again too, despite the outcome, there were about 300 emails in my box wondering why | 04:33 |
| troy_s | i think we were at about 75% approval despite the unfortunate outcome | 04:33 |
| troy_s | which, considering the circumstance, is completely acceptable. | 04:33 |
| troy_s | especially for a first pass in 3 months effectively. | 04:34 |
| z_diver | had the outcome been more appropriate I think we as a group wouldl be flying still. | 04:34 |
| troy_s | i firmly believe and have faith in ubuntu, so i force myself to keep at it. not suffer from the immature 'sour grapes' approach and pull the bail. | 04:34 |
| troy_s | well... i was letting it stew a bit. | 04:34 |
| troy_s | working on u2 and such. | 04:34 |
| troy_s | now i figure the time is right to really go back to the wheel and get the die hards to learn bzr | 04:35 |
| troy_s | and start building a community that liases with the devs -- even if on a very medial scale. | 04:35 |
| z_diver | oh, yeah, thanks for takign the time with me. | 04:35 |
| troy_s | the core devs are the most important group to touch. | 04:35 |
| troy_s | well bzr is amazingly powerful. | 04:35 |
| troy_s | and relatively easy | 04:35 |
| troy_s | but we need to spread our knoweldge | 04:35 |
| troy_s | get a wiki page up | 04:35 |
| troy_s | and promote the bug quashing once we figure it out | 04:35 |
| z_diver | a wiki would be a good idea. | 04:36 |
| troy_s | the docs could be setup on the launchpad howto with a bzr howto | 04:36 |
| troy_s | specifically geared towards the art team | 04:36 |
| troy_s | how to checkout | 04:36 |
| troy_s | how to update | 04:36 |
| troy_s | how to push | 04:36 |
| z_diver | right, copy and paste just like you did with me. | 04:36 |
| troy_s | it will make daniel's immense workload a little lighter if we can at least push it to the merge point | 04:36 |
| troy_s | yep | 04:36 |
| troy_s | it is really only two commands to pull the sources | 04:37 |
| troy_s | do the work then push it. | 04:37 |
| troy_s | not very hard. | 04:37 |
| troy_s | and seeing as how our first 'success' will be with your gtkrc | 04:37 |
| z_diver | ;) | 04:37 |
| troy_s | it should be good to build out from that. | 04:37 |
| troy_s | its why i contacted you because you actually have work that can fix a bug | 04:37 |
| troy_s | and that is a good start. | 04:37 |
| troy_s | once we get our sea legs, you and i can bang out a wiki page for the art team | 04:37 |
| troy_s | and post to the list | 04:37 |
| z_diver | sure, I'm game for hatt | 04:38 |
| troy_s | 202 folks, at even 10% is still 20 folks banging out bug fixes. | 04:38 |
| troy_s | and _that_ will begin phase two of getting the devs interaction up | 04:38 |
| troy_s | with relatively little pain | 04:38 |
| troy_s | in fact, i dare say that the bulk of those bugs already have fixes either A) in the bug threads, or B) in third party sites like orro's svg | 04:39 |
| troy_s | daniel, for one reason or another, has bumped me onto the desktop bug team, so i can at least order the list a bit. | 04:39 |
| z_diver | Daniel is amazing. He has to be ontop of so much stuff and still do all our bugz too. I think this is a good idea and can help him which in turn turn will get the dev to take note. | 04:39 |
| troy_s | Yes. | 04:40 |
| troy_s | He really has been holding us in the game | 04:40 |
| z_diver | I have a few fixes that I'll have to dig up, and post. Some of them are to my own projects but still like to add them. | 04:40 |
| troy_s | So I think we at least owe it to him to try and take up some of the workload. | 04:41 |
| troy_s | God knows we are all very busy, but ... | 04:41 |
| troy_s | I do what I can considering my slim time. | 04:41 |
| troy_s | Indeed... | 04:41 |
| troy_s | You by the way, would probably have full writes to your theme | 04:41 |
| troy_s | IIRC | 04:41 |
| z_diver | if we think like that the danger is Daniel will and then it's over. | 04:41 |
| troy_s | I might be mistaken, but you can try | 04:41 |
| z_diver | no comment above was about the slim time. | 04:42 |
| troy_s | Exactly. | 04:43 |
| troy_s | Anyways, great to still see you around... | 04:43 |
| troy_s | let's see if we can get the boat back on course. | 04:43 |
| troy_s | baby steps... | 04:43 |
| z_diver | you too. Hang in there... I'll be around and look for you here from time to time | 04:44 |
| z_diver | Let me know what you hear from the devs, please. | 04:44 |
| z_diver | cu | 04:45 |
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| lapo | hi | 10:48 |
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| lizardking | Hello artworker! | 12:02 |
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| lizardking | Someone Have any news from sabdfl 's artwork development? | 12:12 |
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| troy_s | greetings TuxCrafter | 03:56 |
| troy_s | dborg | 03:59 |
| troy_s | Any guess on pixmap support in Lua? | 03:59 |
| dborg | guess? | 03:59 |
| troy_s | Yes. | 03:59 |
| dborg | when it's done? | 03:59 |
| troy_s | As in extending the drawing functions of Cairo(?) ? | 03:59 |
| troy_s | yes | 03:59 |
| troy_s | Or at least workable ;) | 03:59 |
| troy_s | I would prefer a 'clean' engine implementation as opposed to me having to kludge with the Pixbuf engine and the TETEAE Lua | 04:00 |
| troy_s | I can't imagine it would be fun getting Pixbuf cooperating nicely. | 04:00 |
| dborg | I'm not planning to do this yet, it's just a planned possible extension. but it shouldn't be too difficult to add it | 04:00 |
| troy_s | Erk! | 04:01 |
| troy_s | Here is a question | 04:01 |
| troy_s | If I state Lua as the basic widget engine | 04:01 |
| troy_s | and apply it as a blanket | 04:01 |
| troy_s | Do you have an idea how many widgets will trap the bg_image property? | 04:02 |
| troy_s | Compared to say, Mist or the Default? | 04:02 |
| dborg | I think pretty much all standard widgets (aside from entries, which draw a white background...). it will mostly be custom widgets causing problems | 04:03 |
| troy_s | You would think | 04:03 |
| dborg | there is no difference, it has nothing to do with the engine | 04:03 |
| troy_s | but the Default actually traps LESS than Mist. | 04:03 |
| troy_s | I thought that... | 04:03 |
| dborg | huh? | 04:03 |
| troy_s | But I believe that the engine can influence it... | 04:03 |
| troy_s | I must run for now | 04:03 |
| dborg | I don't see how | 04:03 |
| troy_s | but as an experiment | 04:03 |
| troy_s | try applying | 04:03 |
| troy_s | bg_image | 04:04 |
| troy_s | without specifying a default engine {} clause | 04:04 |
| troy_s | compare the widget output | 04:04 |
| troy_s | in firefox | 04:04 |
| troy_s | or some app | 04:04 |
| troy_s | then apply engine "mist" {} | 04:04 |
| troy_s | you will see what i mean | 04:04 |
| troy_s | I believe it has to do with the switch case structure | 04:05 |
| troy_s | but I might be mistaken | 04:05 |
| dborg | oh that bg_image you mean. I never used that | 04:05 |
| troy_s | yes i know | 04:06 |
| troy_s | but it is apparently up to the engine to trap it appropriately | 04:06 |
| troy_s | which means in an ideal world | 04:06 |
| troy_s | lua would ;) | 04:06 |
| troy_s | would you mind if i do a test and send you feedback on its implementation? | 04:07 |
| troy_s | dborg | 04:07 |
| troy_s | so with engine "lua" {} | 04:08 |
| troy_s | it looks like it falls back to "Default" | 04:08 |
| troy_s | but, with "mist" the top of firefox is bg_imaged | 04:08 |
| dborg | yes, mostly | 04:08 |
| troy_s | with Default it isn't | 04:08 |
| troy_s | (as with lua now) | 04:08 |
| dborg | yikes, don't tell me about firefox ;) | 04:08 |
| troy_s | in an ideal world, we figure out how mist traps it | 04:08 |
| troy_s | mist traps it properly | 04:09 |
| troy_s | in their switch case | 04:09 |
| troy_s | as in, it DOES properly apply the bg_image | 04:09 |
| troy_s | so i suspect that lua might need to add in the same clause | 04:09 |
| troy_s | in order to get proper functionality | 04:09 |
| dborg | wouldn't it be better to draw the background just once and then make the widgets transparent as possible? | 04:09 |
| troy_s | i have looked at mist's code, but not defaults | 04:09 |
| troy_s | Or that :) | 04:09 |
| troy_s | Whatever works | 04:09 |
| troy_s | The bottom line is that obviously firefox uses some different *widget* that mist captures properly | 04:10 |
| troy_s | and the default doesn't | 04:10 |
| troy_s | (as odd as that seems) | 04:10 |
| dborg | that's how I have done it before and it will be possible with the lua engine as well. it just fails with widgets who aren't properly transparent (many custom widgets) | 04:10 |
| troy_s | yes | 04:10 |
| troy_s | so is it possible to override that behaviour to force bg_image to behave appropriately in all circum? | 04:11 |
| dborg | I don't know | 04:11 |
| troy_s | i would buy you a beer if you could make it behave like that | 04:12 |
| troy_s | or at the very least, like mist handles it... (considering the prevalence of FF etc, it is rather mandatory for me) | 04:12 |
| dborg | what kind of background would you use it for? | 04:12 |
| troy_s | it is somewhere along the lines of the brushed gunmetal of osx, but not cheesy metals. | 04:13 |
| troy_s | its for a far more organic project... | 04:13 |
| troy_s | it appears to be the menu bar | 04:13 |
| troy_s | and the toolbar | 04:13 |
| troy_s | as Thunderbird suffers from the same breaking of bg_image | 04:14 |
| dborg | but isn't it better to do this kind of thing with one background gradient instead of scaled images? | 04:14 |
| troy_s | (not to mention List Views too... the headers are not applied) | 04:14 |
| troy_s | no, grads can't add the irregularity | 04:14 |
| dborg | well they can if you use cairo ;) | 04:14 |
| troy_s | ? | 04:14 |
| troy_s | how so? | 04:14 |
| troy_s | and if so, enlighten me. | 04:15 |
| troy_s | i basically need a fundamental texture applied to all widgetry | 04:15 |
| troy_s | consistently | 04:15 |
| dborg | I mean you can draw the image pattern and then overlay a transparent gradient. I'm quite sure that's how OSX does it. could be very slow though | 04:15 |
| troy_s | right now the implementation is very fast | 04:15 |
| troy_s | using just the bg_image | 04:15 |
| troy_s | the problems are as discussed however | 04:15 |
| troy_s | if mist were perfect, I would use it, but again, it breaks the rules and performs solid fills on things like scrollbar troughs | 04:16 |
| troy_s | etc. | 04:16 |
| troy_s | the default does this properly, but does NOT manage to trap the menubar, toolbar, etc of ff | 04:16 |
| troy_s | (where mist does) | 04:16 |
| troy_s | and frankly, i don't care about speed. | 04:16 |
| troy_s | if it works on a relatively modern computer, it works for me. | 04:16 |
| dborg | sure | 04:17 |
| troy_s | the main thing is just getting a bloody engine to do the 'right' thing | 04:18 |
| troy_s | and that means having the gtkrc apply the bg_image to _EVERY_ widget, no matter what app | 04:18 |
| troy_s | as in mixing the functionality of default engine with mist | 04:18 |
| troy_s | and we are there. | 04:18 |
| troy_s | which is a simple switch/case statement with the proper constants to the best of my knowledge. | 04:18 |
| TuxCrafter | Hello everyone (need a brake for 15 min) | 04:19 |
| dborg | well I'm still not convinced that bg_image is all that useful compared to a simple background draw, but it shouldn't be too difficult to slap it behind each drawing function | 04:19 |
| TuxCrafter | I see the problem in xubuntu and probably also ubuntu that users like to see things change like graphical stuff but developers do not support it | 04:20 |
| troy_s | dborg -- i agree... but i think to be a proper engine that that | 04:20 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: nature of the beast. users aren't devs however. | 04:21 |
| TuxCrafter | I want to have a voting system for all the dynamical graphical stuff | 04:21 |
| dborg | yikes | 04:21 |
| dborg | voting systems are evil :) | 04:21 |
| troy_s | dborg that the base engine should handle the gtkrc defines properly | 04:21 |
| dborg | you can't design by committee | 04:21 |
| troy_s | no | 04:21 |
| troy_s | you need a solid team | 04:21 |
| troy_s | dborg -- anyways, if you could pull that off, or at least provide a way to draw to _all_ widgets | 04:22 |
| troy_s | i would appreciate the knowledge. | 04:22 |
| TuxCrafter | but they can help make things transparent and let users feel apart of the distribution | 04:22 |
| troy_s | (as in a catch all like bg_image) | 04:22 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: matters not | 04:22 |
| troy_s | 'users' is a big term | 04:22 |
| troy_s | with no clearly defined audience, design fails. | 04:22 |
| troy_s | period. | 04:22 |
| dborg | troy_s: well I'd say it's still up to the engine which options it supports ;) it could have its own background image handling just as well | 04:22 |
| troy_s | you learn that in art and design skool .000001 | 04:22 |
| troy_s | dborg -- sure. i guess then i have to turn it into a request :( | 04:23 |
| troy_s | images are critical ... especially with the newer wave coming down. | 04:23 |
| dborg | "newer wave"? | 04:23 |
| troy_s | you simply cannot provide the same appearance using simple splines (you could do it somewhat with svg) | 04:23 |
| troy_s | the looks right now are locked into simple line functionality | 04:24 |
| TuxCrafter | I was thinking of a system were people can post a design on a website and with a howto /script how it can be implemented and tested | 04:24 |
| troy_s | and grads | 04:24 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: go for it. | 04:24 |
| TuxCrafter | in the ubuntu wiki system | 04:24 |
| TuxCrafter | I was hoping if someone already had made this somewere | 04:24 |
| troy_s | dborg: at any rate, how much effort to implement it in lua? | 04:24 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: it is called launchpad | 04:24 |
| TuxCrafter | launchpad is more for bus and request right? | 04:25 |
| dborg | troy_s: well I'm sure I'll support pixmap textures at some point, what I am not sure about it is the usefulness of bg_image as opposed to rendering a texture once on the window background | 04:25 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: it works. but polls will fail. there are two components -- the client (the fellow who calls the ultimate shots) and the audience | 04:25 |
| troy_s | neither cares about polls. | 04:25 |
| troy_s | dborg: i don't mind how it is implemented... (although i would prefer that bg_image did the trick regardless as to how to achieve it) | 04:26 |
| troy_s | dborg and i would very much prefer to use lua | 04:26 |
| troy_s | to show what it can do. | 04:26 |
| TuxCrafter | but how do you measure then if people like it or niot | 04:26 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: called focus groups | 04:26 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: and they don't work exactly well either | 04:26 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: design is a very tricky realm -- it takes people who are educated in the design world (know what trends are moving across _all_ design, etc) with the proper team for execution. | 04:27 |
| TuxCrafter | I am going to do a coarse in people management | 04:27 |
| TuxCrafter | and read some more stuff about opensource management | 04:27 |
| TuxCrafter | sometimes the system is so ineffective that you can just not begin to grasp it :-D | 04:28 |
| TuxCrafter | and i believe ubuntu has the best community system | 04:28 |
| dborg | a little too good maybe :) | 04:29 |
| TuxCrafter | how does the artwork go in the ubuntu process | 04:29 |
| TuxCrafter | who decide how things looks | 04:30 |
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| troy_s | TuxCrafter: the answer is simple | 04:32 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: one person is both the audience and client | 04:32 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: sabdfl | 04:32 |
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| troy_s | TuxCrafter: there is no process, just whim | 04:32 |
| TuxCrafter | whim? | 04:32 |
| dborg___ | holy crap | 04:32 |
| troy_s | dborg___ what?> | 04:32 |
| TuxCrafter | Mark Shuttleworth | 04:32 |
| troy_s | dborg -- i would buy you a case of your fave liq if you could get textures working | 04:33 |
| troy_s | ;) | 04:33 |
| troy_s | lua very clearly is the future -- teteae -- but we need to show people how this is ture. | 04:33 |
| troy_s | true even | 04:33 |
| TuxCrafter | so no freedom for ubuntu and chaos for xubuntu :-D | 04:33 |
| dborg___ | I'll finish it first :P | 04:33 |
| troy_s | TuxCrafter: no... the nature of design in free software still has a lot of 'maturing' to happen | 04:33 |
| troy_s | dborg: you _rock_ | 04:34 |
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| troy_s | TuxCrafter: and, ultimately, the design issues with all of the given distributions have no one to blame but themselves | 04:36 |
| troy_s | heavy on the politicking, and not enough on traditional design theory | 04:36 |
| TuxCrafter | indeed if we look at theory of graphical issues and treds xubuntu needs a lot of work | 04:36 |
| troy_s | well you have one upside -- mr. mak. | 04:37 |
| troy_s | but it ultimately depends on his vision _and_ his ability to implement his change. | 04:37 |
| TuxCrafter | but the not all dev's have that insight | 04:37 |
| troy_s | again, what seems to happen is that the changes are 'half assed' | 04:37 |
| troy_s | because of the political structure | 04:37 |
| TuxCrafter | so what do you advice if we want to add some extra options of graphical work in xubuntu | 04:38 |
| troy_s | if the top of the heap has the ability to call the final shot and give the power to someone they trust, the output _could_ be very good. | 04:38 |
| troy_s | jani is a damn good guy | 04:38 |
| TuxCrafter | he is | 04:38 |
| troy_s | and xub has some pretty good people working on the art/design front | 04:38 |
| TuxCrafter | jub jmak etcetra | 04:38 |
| troy_s | but i think again, it would take someone to really lay down a target audience | 04:38 |
| troy_s | before you can attempt to speak to them | 04:39 |
| troy_s | without a target audience | 04:39 |
| troy_s | you are effectively 'pretending' to appeal to all | 04:39 |
| troy_s | which is pure garbage | 04:39 |
| troy_s | no such creature | 04:39 |
| troy_s | it is like standing up at the united nations and saying 'i love you all' | 04:39 |
| TuxCrafter | indeed thats why I want to let te user be able to choice | 04:39 |
| troy_s | whilst being ignorant that the language being spoken is english for example. | 04:39 |
| troy_s | well users can't choose either | 04:39 |
| troy_s | you must _Clearly_ define your audience | 04:40 |
| TuxCrafter | with a easy way of editing configurations | 04:40 |
| troy_s | otherwise you get what we currently have in ubuntu -- 10000001 different 'opinions' in bug reports | 04:40 |
| troy_s | which is also rubbish | 04:40 |
| TuxCrafter | yes that sucks | 04:40 |
| troy_s | you need to say 'design feature a does not meet the requirements of target audience foobar' | 04:40 |
| troy_s | and on another side of the spectrum you have the 'middle grey' approach | 04:41 |
| troy_s | which is to just barely be adequate | 04:41 |
| troy_s | and keep the complaints down | 04:41 |
| troy_s | which again, is NOT effective design either. | 04:41 |
| troy_s | art and design is, ultimately, a form of communication | 04:42 |
| troy_s | stand out art and design | 04:42 |
| troy_s | communicates a clear message | 04:42 |
| troy_s | _and_ does so in an aesthetically cohesive manner. | 04:42 |
| troy_s | if you don't believe that, feel free to pick up just about any reference book on art / design. | 04:43 |
| TuxCrafter | I think I will specialize myself in these policies to become able to create a effective communication system between different type of users | 04:43 |
| troy_s | to quote but _one_ source: | 04:43 |
| troy_s | "Concept is king" | 04:43 |
| troy_s | "Audience is the force that governs all" | 04:44 |
| troy_s | although just about every reference will have that stated in some manner. | 04:44 |
| TuxCrafter | you forgot over | 04:44 |
| TuxCrafter | I believe it is the power to become able to attract different kind of user to one distributions bye creating easy method of changing complete different type of graphical looks | 04:47 |
| TuxCrafter | but my all my resent experiences learn me this will not become a easy task | 04:48 |
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| troy_s | TuxCrafter: in theory any distribution affords this. the reality is that _most_ users probably don't want to put in the hours to develop a look. | 05:00 |
| TuxCrafter | troy_s: Yes i agree but when a user is putting time and what to help. He should not be so easily dismissed and say that is idea's are useless. I have seen that happen several times. There should be a clear and democratic system that a user can easily go through with his idea's | 05:04 |
| troy_s | _anyone_ can bikeshed | 05:04 |
| troy_s | democracy does not assure solid design | 05:04 |
| troy_s | nor does dictatorships | 05:04 |
| TuxCrafter | true | 05:05 |
| troy_s | ultimately, there are no easy answers. | 05:05 |
| TuxCrafter | thats also why devs and users are separated | 05:05 |
| troy_s | the best design generally is the byproduct of A) a solid team atmosphere, B) educated participants, C) solid design plan. | 05:06 |
| troy_s | need look no further than the lauded Apple design team | 05:06 |
| TuxCrafter | indeed not a easy subject | 05:07 |
| TuxCrafter | troy_s I have to go further with my work now, and thanks for your insides have something to think about :-D | 05:08 |
| TheSheep | I wonder if a sketch of overall design, with all the changes shown, would be more encouraging that just mockups of single features... | 05:23 |
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| coz_ | to mods at art.ubuntu.com i am still seeing my name there PLEASE remove all references from the servers i go under coz and cosimo thank you | 05:52 |
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| troy_s | i wish he woudl quite popping in here as though we are mods. | 06:07 |
| troy_s | TheSheep -- yes. | 06:07 |
| troy_s | TheSheep -- if you mean to an 'outside' person | 06:07 |
| troy_s | hopefully when you are on the 'inside' you have the ability to visualize the issue. | 06:08 |
| troy_s | otherwise you probably shouldn't be on the team. | 06:08 |
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| troy_s | bersace: greets my brother. | 06:38 |
| bersace | troy_s: hi bro | 06:47 |
| bersace | how are you ! | 06:47 |
| bersace | ? | 06:47 |
| troy_s | good thanks. you? | 06:47 |
| bersace | quite good | 06:48 |
| bersace | i saw you did a lot of work in lp | 06:48 |
| troy_s | yeah trying to amp it up a bit. | 06:49 |
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| TuxCrafter | does somebody now how to install the murrine engine | 08:49 |
| TuxCrafter | never mind | 08:49 |
| TuxCrafter | found the tread | 08:49 |
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| PingunZ | !seen fschoep | 09:00 |
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| troy_s | pingunz | 10:02 |
| troy_s | no seen | 10:02 |
| PingunZ | hey troy_s | 10:02 |
| troy_s | greets. | 10:02 |
| PingunZ | how are you m8 ? | 10:04 |
| troy_s | fine thank you pingunz. | 10:06 |
| msikma | Hey everyone | 10:12 |
| troy_s | greets msikma | 10:12 |
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| TuxCrafter | hello I have a noob question | 11:45 |
| TuxCrafter | I have installed murrina and the MurrinaGiloucheDuo Theme | 11:46 |
| TuxCrafter | and I want to customisch it | 11:46 |
| TuxCrafter | where do I start :-D | 11:46 |
| TuxCrafter | with config files must I edit? | 11:46 |
| TuxCrafter | gtkrc | 11:47 |
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