[12:16] <mdke> somerville32: s/Riddle/Riddell (tab completion is your friend)
[12:16] <somerville32> hehe
[12:18] <Riddell> hi somerville32 
[12:19] <somerville32> Riddell: If you're busy, could you just tell me the tasks you tested on the ppc platform so I can mark them as tested? :)
[12:19] <Riddell> somerville32: install, log in and try to open file manager
[12:20] <somerville32> How did you install?
[12:20] <somerville32> Did you use the live-cd?
[12:22] <somerville32> Riddell: Erase disk, auto-resize, or manual partitioner?
[12:26] <teer2> Greetings, angelic developers.  I have a question about official ubuntu repositories.
[12:27] <teer2> I have an idea for creating a repository for commercial game "demos" that are known to work with a given Ubuntu distribution version.
[12:27] <Riddell> somerville32: erase disk
[12:27] <mdke> teer2: sounds familiar :)
[12:28] <teer2> Perhaps, this could be included into the official repositories.
[12:28] <teer2> eventuall.
[12:28] <somerville32> Riddell, And you did use the desktop cd?
[12:28] <teer2> mdke: Has this been done before?
[12:28] <mdke> teer2: actually, I may have misunderstood. You know there is a -commercial repository?
[12:28] <teer2> I was sent up here to ask about it from the #ubuntu channel
[12:29] <cjwatson> pitti: thanks
[12:29] <teer2> mdke: I was told they did not have commercial games listed there.  For example, does it have the notorious Doom 3 demo?
[12:30] <cjwatson> pitti: the partman log will be more explicit now about why it isn't offering autoresize, although not totally explicit
[12:30] <pitti> cjwatson: I believe it only reads the gconf keys at startup; I'll teach it to always read them when mounting instead of caching the values in internal state
[12:30] <teer2> mdke: Will the legendary Quake Wars: Enemy Territory demo be hosted there?  These are things I think would benefit Ubuntu if they were offered in a way that was easy for end-users to obtain.
[12:30] <cjwatson> pitti: in one of your earlier logs, I noticed that it was running into a known parted bug whereby recent ext3 filesystems (including the ones created by current feisty installer images) can't be resized by parted
[12:30] <cjwatson> or even checked, for that matter
[12:30] <cjwatson> if you feel like digging into parted code, there's a good project in there :)
[12:30] <pitti> ah, that would explain it
[12:31] <lifeless> does anyone enjoy digging into parted ?
[12:31] <cjwatson> autoresize of ntfs or older ext3 (maybe ext2) should still work fine
[12:31] <cjwatson> I have enjoyed it upon occasion
[12:31] <mdke> teer2: things are added as the relevant commercial organisations make them available. But in your case, it sounds like something that is better suited to another existing ubuntu repository, like universe or multiverse
[12:31] <cjwatson> the code is quite nicely structured - it's just fundamentally rather difficult
[12:31] <teer2> How can I find out information about setting up an Ubuntu repository, please?
[12:31] <lifeless> I think its an interesting piece of software, every coder I know has at some point expressed interest in writing defrag/parted/etc
[12:31] <LaserJock> teer2: why not just get them into the existing repos?
[12:32] <lifeless> speaking of which, I really should get around to updating defrag to work on current ext3
[12:32] <mdke> teer2: that's the wrong sort of information, you need information about how to include something into an existing repository, which you can get by asking in #ubuntu-motu
[12:32] <teer2> LaserJock: How can I do this?  I have the ear of many developers for commercial linux games, and if I can direct them on how to submit their demos to the official distributions, then I am sure they would eb happy to do it.
[12:33] <cjwatson> lifeless: the main problem with parted is that it seems to have quite a short shelf-life of active developers
[12:33] <cjwatson> nobody seems to be able to cope with low-level partitioning code for very long
[12:33] <LaserJock> teer2: well, #ubuntu-motu is the place to start
[12:34] <cjwatson> but there's nothing else that fills its niche
[12:34] <teer2> LaserJock: Like, there is this game I think is a great example of a recent Linux multiplayer game, Galcon.  Small demo, three days of online play.  Seems perfect for the official distribution.  Just tell him where to send the demo and he will do it.
[12:34] <teer2> LaserJock: Okay, I'm off to ask there.  Thanks.
[12:34] <cjwatson> well, not so much the official distribution, in that the official distribution consists of free software
[12:34] <lifeless> cjwatson: I have been wondering for a while if its reasonable in a conceptual fashion to recast it into a python main loop/ui and bound C libraries for the bits-on-disk mechanics
[12:35] <cjwatson> lifeless: the former is trivial, so that's not an interesting project for me; it's the latter that's the actual hard bit
[12:35] <cjwatson> all the hard problems I'm aware of in libparted are bits-on-disk, and the language is pretty unimportant
[12:36] <lifeless> cjwatson: I think language is important in so far as what developers will touch it.
[12:36] <cjwatson> I don't buy that there are a significant fraction of developers who won't touch C yet want to hack on low-level partitioning code
[12:36] <lifeless> cjwatson: i.e. while writing disk-bits manipulation code in python is easy to do, will the set of developers that know enough about FS internals to write such code consider contributing
[12:36] <cjwatson> the sort of people who like this sort of thing also like things like kernel hacking
[12:37] <lifeless> cjwatson: I'm not claiming that, I'm claiming the inverse: that folk prefer to hack on low level partitioning code in C
[12:37] <cjwatson> oh, right, I definitely think that is the case
[12:37] <cjwatson> sorry, I misread your comment above
[12:38] <lifeless> :)
[12:38] <lifeless> it was rather round about
[12:38] <cjwatson> what I meant by "the language is pretty unimportant" was that there's very little in the bits-on-disk mechanics that could easily be improved in terms of e.g. readability or maintainability by being recast in a different language
[12:39] <cjwatson> although more comments in that code certainly wouldn't hurt
[12:39] <lifeless> mmmm. I disagree, but I dont think the win would be worth the impact in developer-time
[12:39] <cjwatson> are you familiar with the code in question?
[12:40] <cjwatson> (since my comment is very much tied to this particular piece of code, not a general statement)
[12:40] <lifeless> not very, though I have been inside the hood before
[12:40] <cjwatson> the only thing that I find particularly awkward about its C nature is having to remember to byte-swap stuff
[12:40] <lifeless> oh yay, gpg gone into lalala land
[12:41] <cjwatson> that's only really while physically reading and writing, though
[12:41] <lifeless> have you ever seen apt-get source have gpg dissappear up its own internals ?
[12:42] <lifeless> its doing 5 thousand read, time, gettimeofday, times, getrusage calls every second
[12:43] <alex-weej> has anybody made an effort on some kind of Windows user migration help page
[12:43] <alex-weej> documentation
[12:43] <alex-weej> explaining what's different and why
[12:43] <alex-weej> and how it's beneficial
[12:43] <alex-weej> i get friends going mental trying to compile tarballs they downloaded off some website 'cause they think that's how they get software
[12:44] <cjwatson> alex-weej: I'm not sure about web pages, but some of the Ubuntu books I've seen have excellent sections on migrating
[12:44] <cjwatson> my parents are working their way through "Ubuntu Linux For Non-Geeks"
[12:45] <LaserJock> alex-weej: yes, the doc team is writing a "Switching from Windows" guide for Feisty
[12:45] <cjwatson> (entirely not at my prompting, but still)
[12:45] <alex-weej> LaserJock: excellent! i'll keep my eyes open for it :)
[12:50] <pitti> good night everyone
[01:16] <davmor2> quick query with the new uuid disk naming does it mean you can rename a usb device and the name will be remembered?
[02:03] <persia> mdz: I was asked to check with you to verify that the Maintainer fields in source packages in Universe should be modified in line with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField.
[02:03] <mdz> persia: yes
[02:03] <mdz> (they should be)
[02:04] <LaserJock> mdz: we should be doing that as we are merging (for instance)?
[02:04] <persia> mdz: Thanks.
[02:04] <mdz> LaserJock: yes, that would be a good start
[02:05] <LaserJock> mdz: was that said in -devel-announce at some point?
[02:05] <LaserJock> I know we've been doing binary mangling
[02:05] <persia> mdz: Does the change belong in the changelog, or can it be assumed from the -ubuntu versioning?
[02:23] <mdz> persia: like any other change to the package, it should be documented in the changelog
[02:23] <persia> mdz: Thanks for the confirmation.
[02:23] <mdz> LaserJock: if it wasn't, it ought to have been
[02:28] <LaserJock> mdz: I can't find anything grep'ing in ubuntu-devel-announce archives. Would you have time to send one out? I think it'd be helpful for MOTU at least
[02:29] <mdz> LaserJock: I have to dash for the airport shortly, but you're welcome to send one
[02:29] <mdz> someone will moderate it
[02:30] <LaserJock> mdz: ok
[06:13] <mardi_soir> hello 
[06:14] <mardi_soir> i have a problem for usink ralink wiki pci card 
[06:14] <mardi_soir> under xubuntu edgy 
[06:15] <mardi_soir> rt61pci does not work so .. i put the ralink rt61 driver from the website of ralink 
[06:15] <mardi_soir> i made a static configuration 
[06:15] <mneptok> mardi_soir: you want #ubuntu
[06:15] <mardi_soir> but i m not aable to use the it 
[06:16] <mardi_soir> mneptok, no one can help me on genezralist chanel 
[06:16] <mardi_soir> my con is ok 
[06:16] <mardi_soir> conf 
[06:16] <lifeless> mardi_soir: what do you think is wrong ?
[06:17] <mardi_soir> when i make a ifconfig i can see receive packet .. but impossible to ping  the gateway 
[06:17] <mardi_soir> when i make a iwconfig scan i can sho the wifi lan (no encryption ) 
[06:17] <mardi_soir> but non ping avaible 
[06:17] <fabbione> mardi_soir: either file a bug or please move to #ubuntu this isn't a support channel
[06:17] <mardi_soir> ok ! 
[06:18] <mardi_soir> so have a nice day 
[06:19] <mardi_soir> and just know that ralink rt61pci on ubuntu edgy no work well alone :/ 
[06:19] <mardi_soir> bye 
[06:23] <mneptok> fabbione: you know who handles default X session stuffs?
[06:25] <fabbione> mneptok: rodarvus 
[06:26] <fabbione> gotta go to feed the fattosaurus rex
[06:26] <fabbione> hopefully he is awake now
[06:26] <mneptok> does your wife know you call her that?
[06:26] <fabbione> ahah
[06:30] <fabbione> bah
[06:30] <fabbione> he went back to sleep
[06:30] <fabbione> it's one hour that he goes like that
[06:30] <fabbione> ahh there he is now
[07:06] <fabbione> sfllaw: did you get around to test the glibc SRU?
[07:22] <Nafallo> morning
[07:54] <keescook> any archive admins around to kick the security uploads of OOo, dokuwiki through?  (Mithrandir)
[07:57] <fabbione> keescook: too early probably
[07:57] <fabbione> they get notified anyway.. so don't sweat it
[07:57] <keescook> fabbione: yeah... I best get to bed.
[07:58] <fabbione> keescook: night dude
[07:58] <keescook> g'night!
[07:58] <mneptok> keescook: saw you had snow in PDX \o/
[07:58] <keescook> mneptok: yeah!  It's almost entirely melted now, but the dogs had fun.  :)
[07:59] <mneptok> keescook: last weekend, YUL *was* PDX in terws of climate
[07:59] <mneptok> *terms
[07:59] <keescook> heh
[07:59] <mneptok> gray, rain, 12C
[07:59] <keescook> ick.
[07:59] <mneptok> now -1 and snowing
[08:00] <Nafallo> I have snow :-P
[08:00] <keescook> Nafallo: where are you physically?
[08:01] <Nafallo> keescook: Kungsr, Sweden :-)
[08:01] <fabbione> i guess it depends on what kind of "snow"
[08:01] <fabbione> i also have snow.. right on my desk
[08:01] <keescook> mneptok: gah!  right again!
[08:01] <keescook> Nafallo: nice.  :)
[08:01] <Nafallo> fabbione: I have real "outdoor" snow ;-)
[08:01] <mneptok> fabbione: your cocaine habit is not to be discussed on public channels
[08:02] <Nafallo> mneptok: lol
[08:02] <fabbione> Nafallo: yeah.. we are waiting here in dk too
[08:02] <keescook> okay, seriously...bed time.  :)  cya guys
[08:02] <mneptok> nighty kc
[08:02] <fabbione> mneptok: i didn't mention cocaine.. i tend to bake pizza on my desk.. my snow is flavour
[08:03] <mneptok> romanosnow?
[08:03] <fabbione> yeps
[08:04] <fabbione> oh great
[08:04] <fabbione> the nokia update to my phone did switch it back to danish
[08:05] <mneptok> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2561063293686517066&q=the+power+of+cheese
[08:12] <fabbione> mneptok: same actor as President Logan in 24h and father of one of the actors in Friends
[08:13] <mneptok> hehehe. behold the power of cheese.
[09:27] <Mithrandir> doko: do we have anything in particular we recommend as a replacement for toolchain-source?
[09:28] <doko> gcc-4.1-source, binutils-source, and README.cross in gcc-4.1, nothing more
[09:29] <Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
[09:40] <pitti> Good morning
[09:41] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[09:42] <pitti> hey ajmitch, how are you?
[09:42] <ajmitch> ok, yourself?
[09:44] <Hobbsee> heya pitti 
[09:44] <pitti> ajmitch: great!
[09:44] <Mithrandir> morning Martin, Sarah
[09:45] <Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir!
[09:45] <pitti> hi Mithrandir, recovered a bit from release stress?
[09:45] <Mithrandir> pitti: yeah, doing the actual publishing now.
[09:45] <Mithrandir> once that's done, I'll write the mail to u-d-a, thaw feisty, enable the publisher and all that faff
[09:48] <pitti> Mithrandir: could you please run the publisher for the OO.o security update?
[09:49] <Mithrandir> I'll just reenable it
[09:49] <Mithrandir> (done)
[09:49] <Mithrandir> it'll run in about ten minutes
[09:51] <fabbione> Mithrandir: still confirmed the cd versions from Testing/Current/Ubuntu ? I need to pass them to -certification
[09:53] <Mithrandir> fabbione: the CD versions in releases are the latest ones.
[09:57] <Mithrandir> fabbione: also, certificationtestingprocess doesn't start until after the images are published. :-P
[09:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yeps. i still want to make triple sure that certification can compare the release with the numbers we did test/release
[09:58] <fabbione> extra paranoia.. nothing more
[09:58] <Mithrandir> fabbione: if so, look at the ISO headers in the images once they're released.
[09:58] <fabbione> ok
[10:02] <Mithrandir> fabbione: now you can start the certification testing process
[10:02] <fabbione> yes i can see.. but i don't start.. i just send a ping to Marc
[10:02] <fabbione> too bad herd-2/ is empty
[10:02] <fabbione> at least on one of cdimage
[10:03] <Mithrandir> it takes a little while to copy 10G, even over gigabit
[10:03] <fabbione> tsk tsk :)
[10:15] <Mithrandir> can somebody review http://err.no/tmp/herd-2.txt ?
[10:15] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: where review means...?
[10:16] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: look for bad grammar, typos, factual errors, stuff you think should be there, etc.
[10:16] <Hobbsee> right
[10:16] <Hobbsee> s/grammer/grammar/
[10:17] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I don't think so either; fixed.
[10:17] <Hobbsee> s/inclusion of new upstream versions/new versions of programs/
[10:18] <Hobbsee> Common
[10:18] <Hobbsee> to all variants, we have upgraded the kernel to 2.6.20
[10:18] <Hobbsee> ^ dunno if that's not obvious - may be better to say that "notably, the kernel has been upgraded to 2.6.20"
[10:18] <Hobbsee> Ubuntu and should be Ubuntu, and
[10:19] <dholbach> good morning
[10:19] <Hobbsee> s/Among them/Among these/
[10:19] <Hobbsee> hey dholbach 
[10:19] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: fixed
[10:19] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:20] <Hobbsee> s/just-partitioned/newly partitioned/
[10:20] <Mithrandir> fixed
[10:20] <Hobbsee> (a few posts a week)  <-- doesnt appear to be that frequent, is it?
[10:21] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee
[10:21] <Hobbsee> approved specifications, policy changes, alpha releases, <-- invert that order - list from the most important (ie, new release) to least
[10:22] <Hobbsee> The Testing area of the wiki suggests various tests that can be
[10:22] <Hobbsee> performed on Herd CD releases to try to catch bugs far enough before
[10:22] <Hobbsee> the final release that they can be fixed:
[10:22] <Hobbsee> hrm....
[10:22] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: list reversed.
[10:22] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you found a picky native-english speaker :P
[10:23] <Mithrandir> it can be up to a few posts a week, so it's to avoid people complaining about the frequency.
[10:23] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: pickiness++
[10:23] <Hobbsee> s/far enough before... release / early enough in the release process/
[10:23] <Hobbsee> ah right
[10:24] <Hobbsee> s/to Malone:/to our bugtracker, Malone:/
[10:24] <Mithrandir> fixed, fixed.
[10:24] <Hobbsee> s/to Malone:/to the Ubuntu bugtracker, Malone:/
[10:24] <Hobbsee> even better
[10:24] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd2 404'd
[10:24] <Mithrandir> yeah, I need to prod the relevant person to fix it.
[10:25] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: looks good to me.  didnt check most of the links though
[10:25] <Hobbsee> oh
[10:25] <Hobbsee> s/
[10:25] <Hobbsee> needing a
[10:25] <Hobbsee> stable system or anyone
[10:25] <Hobbsee>  /needing a stable system, or anyone/
[10:26] <Mithrandir> fixed
[10:26] <Hobbsee> that was all i saw :)

[10:30] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: as an aside, maybe mention slightly more explicitly that if you keep doing upgradse from herd 2, you'll have the same release as feisty final.  although yo'uve already got that there, to a degree
[10:30] <Hobbsee> (there always seems to be heaps of questions in ubuntu about "i got $development version cd, which has now become final, do i need to download the final cd or can i upgrade?"
[10:30] <Hobbsee> )
[10:30] <Mithrandir> suggestion on where to put it?
[10:31] <Hobbsee> between Welcome to Feisty Fawn Herd 2, which will in time become Ubuntu 7.04. and the next paragraph looks good
[10:32] <Hobbsee>  cant see anywhere else in the structure that it would be logical
[10:33] <Mithrandir> unsure, I think maybe the end of the first full paragraph's better.
[10:35] <Hobbsee> argh.  yes, you're right
[10:35] <Mithrandir> something like that?
[10:35] <Hobbsee> yeah
[10:35] <Hobbsee> after 
[10:35] <Hobbsee> They are however recommended for
[10:35] <Hobbsee> Ubuntu developers and those who want to help in testing, reporting,
[10:35] <Hobbsee> and fixing bugs.
[10:35] <Mithrandir> I'm not going to say "identical" since somebody is then going to construct a corner case where something isn't right and we'll go through pain and suffering for that.
[10:35] <mpt> "To turn it into Ubuntu 7.04, put it in an oak barrel and age it for three months."
[10:35] <Mithrandir> mpt: heh. :-)
[10:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:35] <StevenK> mpt: about-ubuntu! *hint*
[10:35] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: is the sentence which is there now ok?
[10:35] <mpt> StevenK, it's time I faced up to the fact that I don't have any time for it :-/
[10:36] <mpt> StevenK, would you like to be the maintainer and get it into universe (and main:-)?
[10:36] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yep, looks fine
[10:36] <StevenK> mpt: Sounds fine to me.
[10:36] <Hobbsee> mpt: he'll badger you to sponsor him though :P
[10:37] <StevenK> I need to figure out how to put it in System menu, and then I think it's right for universe.
[10:37] <mpt> cool
[10:37] <mpt> Then advertise it for testing
[10:37] <StevenK> Indeed.
[10:38] <mpt> StevenK, you're now the driver in Launchpad
[10:38] <StevenK> mpt: Thanks!
[10:38] <mpt> Have you noticed that the bottom right label isn't right-aligned?
[10:38] <mpt> I don't know why that is -- it's right-aligned in glade
[10:39] <StevenK> I haven't, actually.
[10:43] <mpt> The only other tiny UI tweak I see needed is making the cursor a drag cursor when it's over the draggable stuff.
[10:43] <mpt> But I'm not sure if X actually has a "draggable" cursor.
[10:44] <Treenaks> mpt: there's the 'hand' thing
[10:45] <mpt> Isn't that for pointing at hyperlinks?
[10:45] <mpt> i.e. a pointy hand rather than a grabby hand
[10:46] <mpt> The one when you drag a window is grabbing, rather than grabby
[10:46] <mpt> maybe I'm just being too picky ("but the Mac makes this distinction!", etc)
[10:46] <StevenK> mpt: Humbug!
[10:58] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Nice!
[10:59] <Mithrandir> hurrah for us!
[10:59] <\sh> congrats Mithrandir
[11:04] <glatzor> elmo: hi, I am writing on a best mirror detection function for software-properties.
[11:04] <Hobbsee> yay Mithrandir :)
[11:04] <glatzor> elmo: but I am no networking expert. Currently I ping every host and perform a download test of the top ten rtt hosts.
[11:06] <glatzor> elmo: does sending a lot of pings has got any bad side effects? an early beta tester reported, that he had to restart his router, since the name resolution didn't work anymore after the test
[11:06] <thom> glatzor: um, you have seen the dynamic-mirror-decision spec, right?
[11:06] <thom> um, decisions
[11:06] <thom> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/dynamic-mirror-decisions
[11:06] <glatzor> not yet thom
[11:14] <glatzor> thom: seems to be "enterprise ready" :)
[11:16] <glatzor> thom: I also would like to support non launchpad based distros like Debian in software-properties.
[11:16] <thom> fair enough. just making sure you knew about it
[11:16] <dholbach> mdke: your bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337252 breaks ctrl-<cursor> in vi!
[11:17] <Ubug2> Gnome bug 337252 in VteTerminal "ALT + Arrow keys don't work in irssi through gnome-terminal" [Minor,Reopened]  
[11:17] <dholbach> mdke: :-)
[11:48] <Mithrandir> dholbach: when requesting syncs from !main, please tell me so in the bug report.  kthx.
[11:48] <dholbach> Mithrandir: what's the problem?
[11:48] <Mithrandir> dholbach: libdbus-java is in contrib, we sync from main by default, so it took me a little extra to work out why the sync failed. :-)
[11:48] <dholbach> Mithrandir: alrighty, now I understand - I'll do so in the future!
[11:48] <dholbach> Mithrandir: and thanks for libdbus-java
[12:10] <pitti> mvo: are you fine with me hacking on the u-n ubuntu bzr branch for bug 62316?
[12:10] <Ubug2> Malone bug 62316 in update-notifier "Provide GUI access to crash reports from root programs" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62316
[12:13] <mvo> pitti: sure. I plan to do a u-n upload soonish to fix some unrelated problems, just let me know when I can merge something
[12:13] <pitti> mvo: ok, so I'll work on a branch, and not directly on the ubuntu trunk
[12:15] <mvo> pitti: if the changes are fairly small, just use the main branch
[12:15] <cjwatson> heno,dholbach: wow, bughelper is neat
[12:15] <dholbach> cjwatson: thanks :-D
[12:16] <heno> heh, cool
[12:16] <dholbach> cjwatson: i'll be working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugHelper/Dev/ClueFiles - I'll let you know once it's implemented (and makes sense to add more .info files)
[12:17] <dholbach> cjwatson: i'm open to suggestions :)
[12:29] <cjwatson> dholbach: *nod* I'm just using it as an attachment-grepper at the moment really
[12:29] <ogra> tsk ... gnome bugzilla is so confusing ...
[12:29] <cjwatson> possibly a cache of some kind might be a good idea
[12:30] <dholbach> probably
[12:30] <bhale> ogra: hm it is the best bugzilla imo :)
[12:31] <ogra> bhale, yes, but if i comment to a bug it automatically takes me to the next bug after i hit submit ... i always think i did something wrong until i notice i'm on another bug i'm not intrested in
[12:33] <StevenK> ogra: So you can comment on that too, obviously.
[12:33] <bhale> ogra: is that a preference? i dont recall mine doing that
[12:34] <bhale> i remember gentoo bugzilla doing that way back in the day
[12:34] <ogra> StevenK, yes, but i would rather like to re-read what i commented
[12:35] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: can you please find a ubuntu-dev sponsor for all your sync requests?  (Or apply for ubuntu-dev membership..)
[12:36] <dholbach> cjwatson: I added it to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugHelper/Dev/WishList
[12:36] <cjwatson> dholbach: thanks
[12:36] <cjwatson> bhale: doesn't seem to be a preference
[12:36] <cjwatson> at least I can't find it, and I experience the same misfeature as ogra
[12:37] <Mithrandir> ogra: ages ago, we talked about having a clock in the password dialog for gnome-screensaver.  Did you ever get around to adding that (controlled by a gconf key)?
[12:38] <ogra> Mithrandir, bug # ? i cant remember that particular bug ... all i have is "please add an analogue clock as screensaver"
[12:38] <Mithrandir> ogra: I don't think it was ever filed as a bug, just discussed on IRC.
[12:38] <ogra> oh, k
[12:38] <Mithrandir> ogra: I'll be happy to file it as a bug, tho
[12:38] <ogra> doit :)
[12:39] <ogra> even though if i put coding/patching time into g-ss i'll rather care for the broken GL stuff 
[12:39] <cjwatson> StevenK: package?
[12:39] <StevenK> cjwatson: python-xlib
[12:39] <ogra> so it wont be highest prio
[12:40] <cjwatson> StevenK: ok, just slow mail then, since it was accepted 20 minutes ago
[12:40] <StevenK> Oh, right. Thanks for checking.
[12:40] <cjwatson> 11:20:14 DEBUG   Sent a mail:
[12:40] <cjwatson> 11:20:14 DEBUG      Subject: Accepted python-xlib 0.12-5.1ubuntu1 (source)
[12:40] <cjwatson> 11:20:14 DEBUG      Recipients: Steve Kowalik <stevenk@debian.org>
[12:41] <StevenK> Yup, there it is.
[12:41] <cjwatson> it's worth checking because some keyserver interaction bug has meant we've been silently losing a fair few uploads of late
[12:42] <StevenK> Neat. :-/
[12:42] <StevenK> For some reason, master kept hold of the mail for 20 minutes.
[12:42] <Mithrandir> once I find some free time, I'll write something to double-process that queue.
[01:20] <ogra> Mithrandir, you have a nikon camera, is it a D50 ? 
[01:20] <Mithrandir> no, d200
[01:20] <ogra> ah
[01:20] <Mithrandir> my brother has a d50, though
[01:20] <ogra> do you have a tele lens ? 
[01:20] <Mithrandir> yes
[01:20] <Mithrandir> (18-200mm and 28-80)
[01:20] <jsgotangco> wow you're getting into photography eh
[01:20] <Mithrandir> and 70-210
[01:21] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: I got my first SLR when I was 12 or so.
[01:21] <thom> why the 70-210/18-200 overlap? did you have the 70 already?
[01:21] <ogra> i bought a D50 recently, it has a 18-55 lens and i'm pondering to get something more "tele" 
[01:21] <Mithrandir> thom: yeah, it's just some old lenses from a F601
[01:21] <ogra> could you bring your cam and lenses to the sprint so i could test with a different lens once ? 
[01:22] <Mithrandir> ogra: sure.
[01:22] <ogra> thanks ! :)
[01:22] <Mithrandir> ogra: tbh, the 18-55 isn't very good lens, so I think I'd recommend the 18-200 or if you don't want to switch, a 70-200 with VR.
[01:23] <Mithrandir> hmm, the 70-200 is probably expensive, it's f2.8
[01:23] <ogra> i thought about a 55-200 ... to just have the rest of the range 
[01:23] <Mithrandir> nikon at least doesn't seem to have anything 55-200?
[01:24] <ogra> hmm, i think they have a DX lens with that range ...
[01:24] <Mithrandir> indeed, they do
[01:24] <Mithrandir> cheap, not very birght
[01:24] <Mithrandir> bright, even
[01:24] <Mithrandir> (~250)
[01:25] <ogra> yeah ... 
[01:26] <ogra> but 70-200 with 2.8 sunds tempting ....
[01:26] <ogra> *sounds
[01:27] <Mithrandir> it's around 800 or so, but has VR too.
[01:27] <Mithrandir> it's pure love.
[01:27] <Mithrandir> I have one, so you can try that.
[01:27] <ogra> urgh ... but 200 vs 1700 is a *slight* price difference
[01:28] <ogra> (i only fond one starting at 1700)
[01:28] <Mithrandir> uh, that's not the correct one, then.
[01:28] <Mithrandir> it's the 18-200 f3.5-5.6 VRII one you want.
[01:29] <ogra> ah, yeah that one looks better 
[01:29] <ogra> the 1700 one was quite huge ... 
[01:29] <ogra> nothing i'd like to carry with me while travelling
[01:30] <Mithrandir> it's somewhat big, but not huge, and less cumbersome than lots of other things.
[01:31] <ogra> yeah
[01:31] <ogra> the big one was at least twice as long ...
[02:20] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: please get a member of ubuntu-dev to ack your sync requests before subscribing ubuntu-archive to them.  Thanks.
[02:21] <zul> hi
[02:26] <pitti> seb128: FYI, in apport bzr head I use gnome-open again (for epiphany love); I found quite a neat solution now
[02:27] <pitti> (and it only took me two hours to figure out how to call firefox from a 'dropped root privs' program, duh)
[02:32] <jono> where should distro naming suggestions go?
[02:37] <StevenK> jono: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
[02:37] <jono> StevenK: cool
[02:37] <StevenK> (If that's what you mean)
[02:38] <jono> yep, thanks :)
[02:45] <seanh> I'm writing an extension module for Python, and wandering the best thing to do is on Ubuntu. Should I install the Python source from the Ubuntu software channel and work in that, or should I download the Python source from python.org and work on it in my homedir?
[02:46] <seanh> and what will happen if I download Python and build it in my homedir, will this override the version of Python installed in the package manager? So should I uninstall Python before building it?
[02:47] <pitti> seanh: if you install it to /usr/local, it should override the Ubuntu one
[02:47] <pitti> seanh: except for ubuntu shipped programs, since they often hardcode the interpreter path
[02:48] <seanh> so the ubuntu one is installed somewher other than /usr/local, but a version installed in /usr/local would normally be used instead?
[02:49] <pitti> seanh: if you just call 'python', or use the hashbang '#!/usr/bin/env python', your version will be used
[02:49] <pitti> but that's really #ubuntu stuff
[02:49] <seanh> ok I'll go to #ubuntu, thanks
[03:00] <sivang> pitti: is everything good with piware.de ? :) I think I have some problems sending emails
[03:00] <pitti> sivang: seems to work fine for me
[03:01] <ogra> pitti, whats the status of the pulse MIR ? 
[03:01] <Riddell> doko: python transition has begun?
[03:01] <pitti> ugh, MIR
[03:01] <ogra> i have the ltsp side ready here, but can only upload it if pulse is in main ... (ltsp can only use main packages)
[03:01] <pitti> ogra: not touched yet; my principle concern is supportability ATM
[03:01] <doko> Riddell: yes, as fast as packages appear into the archive :-/
[03:01] <pitti> ogra: i. e. it works *very* poorly on our current kernels
[03:02] <ogra> works here without probs 
[03:02] <pitti> has lots of skips here
[03:02] <pitti> whenever I touch a window, change focus, etc
[03:02] <Mithrandir> mdke: I can't process https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/74555 until it's been approved by a SRU team member.
[03:02] <sivang> doko: do we have anywhere tasks to be done for the python transition for folks who wanna help?
[03:02] <Ubug2> Malone bug 74555 in ubuntu-docs "Stable release update" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[03:02] <pitti> ogra: because our kernel doesn't have preemption and a small TZ, and pulseaudio's default frame size is too small for that
[03:02] <ogra> the only thing i saw was the /tmp/.esd/socket from flash blocking esound support, but thats fixed with flash9
[03:02] <doko> sivang: no
[03:02] <Riddell> doko: good luck then
[03:03] <pitti> ogra: but since we do not install it by default this doesn't worry me too much for now
[03:04] <ogra> please tell me if you dont see it entering main during feisty, so i can focus on other features
[03:04] <ogra> (i thought it all was ok until now)
[03:05] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: if it's the earlier diff with the changes described by me in the bug report, it's fine
[03:05] <pitti> ogra: as I said, I just didn't find time for MIR (or wasn't poked hard enough about pulse); I don't have a compelling argument to deny it
[03:05] <pitti> ogra: especially if you want it in edubuntu and it does good things for you, then it's fine for me
[03:05] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: i.e. http://librarian.launchpad.net/5252310/edgy-updates.diff + fix upload target + maybe adjust version number + refer to bugs in changelog
[03:06] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ok.
[03:06] <ogra> pitti, ah, ok, your previous sentences sounded different ...
[03:07] <pitti> ogra: oh, I just told you the biggest problem I have with it
[03:07] <ogra> ah, ok
[03:07] <pitti> it's big enough to not install it by default (amongst breaking compat with oss and multiuser), but shipping in main is fine
[03:08] <ogra> great
[03:08] <ogra> :)
[03:08] <pitti> still, I think we need to do something about the default fragsize
[03:09] <pitti> at least as long as we don't ship preempting kernels with our desktops
[03:09] <ogra> well
[03:10] <ogra> i use the -386 kernel with ltsp (at least i pan to do that again) ...
[03:10] <ogra> *plan
[03:11] <ogra> hmm, but that also only sets CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY
[03:12] <Riddell> pitti: planning to do main inclusion reports any time soon?  I'm after gsmlib
[03:13] <pitti> Riddell: I just need to be poked hard enough :)
[03:13] <pitti> ok, I need about 30 more minutes for my current bug fix, then I'll do some MIRs
[03:13] <giskard> hi ogra 
[03:13] <ogra> hey giskard 
[03:14] <seb128> pitti: nice for apport and gnome-open ;)
[03:17] <lifeless> pitti: system crashes - kernel faults, or admin processes ?
[03:18] <pitti> lifeless: the latter
[03:18] <pitti> lifeless: bug 62316
[03:18] <Ubug2> Malone bug 62316 in update-notifier "Provide GUI access to crash reports from root programs" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62316
[03:19] <lifeless> pitti: excellent
[03:22] <pitti> Riddell: :)
[03:22] <pitti> self.work_queue.append('attack these MIRs, dude!')
[03:22] <Mithrandir> hurrah!  less than one screenfull of NEW again.
[03:30] <seb128> hum
[03:30] <seb128> "  liblpint-bonobo-dev: Depends: liblpint-bonobo0 (= 0.1.5) but it is not going to be installed"
[03:30] <seb128> weird
[03:30] <seb128> (gnome-panel build)
[03:30] <Mithrandir> seb128: arch skew?
[03:30] <seb128> Mithrandir: could you give a retry to gnome-panel builds, that error doesn't make sense to me
[03:30] <seb128> works fine from a fresh pbuilder
[03:31] <Mithrandir> seb128: given-back
[03:32] <seb128> Mithrandir: thank you
[03:35] <pitti> mvo: I committed my update-notifier changes to my branch; shall I pull that stuff into the trunk and upload, or do you want to merge from mine and upload in the near future?
[03:44] <pitti> mvo_: AYT?
[03:45] <seb128> grumpf
[03:45] <seb128> gnome-panel retry failed the same way
[03:45] <seb128> WTF
[03:55] <seb128> hum
[03:55] <seb128> lot of things listed on http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/feisty_probs.html
[03:56] <seb128>     * sparc:545
[03:56] <seb128>     * i386:548
[03:56] <seb128>     * amd64:548
[03:56] <seb128>     * powerpc:545 
[03:56] <seb128> can anybody have a look from the buildd what package is causing that?
[03:57] <seb128> I've no such problem on my box from a fresh pbuilder using archive.ubuntu.com
[03:57] <seb128> Mithrandir?
[03:57] <mvo_> pitti: as you wish
[03:58] <mvo_> pitti: I don't mind either way, 
[03:58] <pitti> mvo_: if you are going to do some fixes and an upload today, then please just merge mine; I attached the branch to bug 62316
[03:58] <Ubug2> Malone bug 62316 in update-notifier "Provide GUI access to crash reports from root programs" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62316
[03:58] <pitti> mvo_: it's not super-urgent
[03:59] <Mithrandir> seb128: that's a bit on the high side, yes.
[03:59] <mvo_> I will most likely uplaoded today
[04:00] <mvo_> pitti: thanks .) can you give me a quick bzr merge url ? then I can merge right away
[04:00] <pitti> mvo_: it's attached to the bug
[04:00] <pitti> mvo_: sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Epitti/update-notifier/apport-system-crashes/
[04:01] <mvo_> thanks pitti
[04:02] <mvo_> pitti: I get bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~pitti/update-notifier/apport-system-crashes/
[04:02] <mvo_> ?
[04:02] <Mithrandir> seb128: seems to be python-related.
[04:03] <pitti> mvo_: wtf??
[04:03] <seb128> Mithrandir: probably yep, there is no base lib to the list
[04:03] <Mithrandir> seb128: I think doko just switched the default version to 2.5
[04:03] <Mithrandir> which blew up the world.
[04:03] <Mithrandir> doko: ^^ did you? :-)
[04:03] <seb128> hum
[04:04] <seb128> what is weird is that it works fine with a fresh pbuilder
[04:04] <Mithrandir> hmm
[04:04] <Mithrandir> that's strange.
[04:04] <doko> Mithrandir: yes, just waiting for the new python-defaults to enter the archive, then I'll mass-upload
[04:04] <seb128> doko: mass upload what?
[04:04] <pitti> mvo_: bzr get'ing this WFM
[04:04] <doko> packages depending on python (<< 2.5)
[04:05] <Mithrandir> doko: seems to be in the archive now at least.
[04:05] <seb128> what packages are those?
[04:05] <Mithrandir>     python | 2.5-0ubuntu1 |        feisty | all
[04:05] <Mithrandir> python-defaults | 2.5-0ubuntu3 |        feisty | source
[04:05] <doko> seb128: ronne:~doko/cxx/auto/DONE
[04:05] <Mithrandir> seb128: I guess liblaunchpad-integration is the one causing massive amounts of failures for you
[04:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: looks like yep
[04:06] <mvo_> pitti: a permission problem maybe?
[04:06] <doko> liblaunchpad-integration is one of them
[04:06] <pitti> mvo_: oh, I see; it's sftp and ~pitti, not ~u-core-dev
[04:06] <pitti> mvo_: shall I do the merge myself?
[04:06] <seb128> doko: that would be nice if you would give a warning before breaking half of main :p
[04:06] <Mithrandir> I think I'm going home and hope this has gone away by monday. :-P
[04:06] <seb128> graaa
[04:06] <doko> Mithrandir: when are the 2.5-0ubuntu3 binaries supposed to enter the archive?
[04:07] <Mithrandir> (seriously, I'm going home, if it's still broken this evening, tell me and I'll poke at the bits I can)
[04:07] <mvo_> pitti: yeah, just do it
[04:07] <seb128> I've uploaded a gnome-menus breaking gnome-panel
[04:07] <seb128> they were supposed to go together
[04:07] <Mithrandir> doko: my guess is they're in this publishing run.
[04:08] <pitti> mvo_: pushed to trunk
[04:08] <mvo_> pitti: thanks
[04:09] <doko> seb128: I did in the meeting yesterday
[04:10] <bddebian> Heya
[04:10] <bddebian> Mithrandir: thanks for the syncs and such!
[04:10] <Mithrandir> I think a switch of the default python version would be appropriate on u-d-a (and not on a friday afternoon)
[04:10] <Mithrandir> bddebian: np, good to get the count down a bit.
[04:10] <seb128> doko: you didn't say it was going to break half of main :p
[04:11] <seb128> anyway that's done now, let's fix everything
[04:11] <doko> seb128: fix the library packages to support both of 2.4 and 2.5, then they cannot be broken :p
[04:12] <seb128> doko: well, I just don't like having things broken on friday afternoon because usually it means they are going to be broken for everybody until monday
[04:16] <doko> seb128: please raise your concerns when we plan such things. the friday afternoon is the time where it hurts not many people.
[04:17] <ogra> if i cant work on the weekend it hurts me ...
[04:17] <doko> the weekend didn't start
[04:17] <seb128> doko: well, you made half of main non-installable, which broke the GNOME builds from this morning, which means gnome-panel is broken for everybody now
[04:17] <ogra> well, it starts soon :)
[04:18] <doko> seb128: then please fix gnome-panel
[04:19] <seb128> doko: I've fixed it this morning, the package doesn't build though :p
[04:19] <seb128> doko: because the buildd is not able to install the Build-Depends to build it :p
[04:21] <seb128> doko: anyway no big deal, let's do your massive rebuild, that will probably make launchpad-integration installable again ;)
[04:24] <pitti> there go another handful of hal bugs
[04:29] <pitti> Riddell: hmm, gsmlib seems to be a bit dead, and sounds like hard to support hardware-wise
[04:29] <BenC> is there a place where the feisty release notes are being drafted?
[04:38] <keescook> morning folks
[04:39] <kylem> morning kees.
[04:39] <pitti> hi keescook 
[04:39] <keescook> hiya kylem 
[04:39] <keescook> hi pitti
[04:40] <pitti> Riddell: argh @ gsmlib: prerm script is evil and buggy, so is postinst
[04:40] <fabbione> hmmm feisty exploded
[04:40] <fabbione> Totals by arch:
[04:40] <fabbione>     * sparc:546
[04:40] <fabbione>     * i386:549
[04:40] <fabbione>     * amd64:549
[04:40] <fabbione>     * powerpc:546 
[04:41] <fabbione> (uninstallable)
[04:41] <pitti> fabbione: see scrollback; that's due to the python transition
[04:41] <fabbione> oh ok
[04:42] <seb128> iz doko bog :p
[04:42] <fabbione> seb128: so tell me my little friend.. what's the best bluetooth gnome app out there?
[04:42] <seb128> ask dholbach, he's doing bluetooth things ;)
[04:43] <fabbione> dholbach: ^^^
[04:43] <dholbach> fabbione: that depends on what you want to do
[04:43] <fabbione> dholbach: everything possible.. connect my phone to the lappy.. sync data.. upload/download files..
[04:44] <dholbach> gnome-vfs-obexftp (which is still in binary NEW it seems) gives you the files on your phone, if you browse to obex:///
[04:44] <dholbach> gnome-bluetooth (together with nautilus-sendto) is for sending and receiving single files
[04:45] <dholbach> multisync (dunno if that works - never touched in 2-3 years) is for synchronisation
[04:45] <azeem> probabyl opensync works better, but has no GUI yet
[04:45] <dholbach> there's also wammu/gammu - but I don't know how that works
[04:45] <dholbach> and it's not gnome app either
[04:45] <dholbach> that's all i can say
[04:46] <pitti> fabbione, dholbach: I have used multisync a bit, but BT synchronization is only at cvs head and sucks
[04:46] <doko> seb128: come to Berliiin to fix your bogs
[04:46] <fabbione> i am told this phone works fine with syncml and eGRoupware...
[04:46] <fabbione> so i assume we are still with duck tapes and patches
[04:46] <pitti> fabbione: pretty much, yes
[04:47] <pitti> fabbione: using my phone as a GPRS modem is easy, but still requires /etc editing
[04:47] <fabbione> yeah modem doesn't bother me and i don't usually need it
[04:47] <azeem> pitti: there's no multisync cvs head AFAIK
[04:47] <fabbione> plus i don't even have a dial up account
[04:47] <pitti> it's the single useful thing that is easy to achieve, at least with my phone ;)
[04:47] <fabbione> pitti: ADSL in denmark are stable :)
[04:47] <fabbione> nobody has ISDN anylonger
[04:48] <pitti> fabbione: I'm talking about GPRS
[04:48] <fabbione> yeah we don't need dial-up :)
[04:48] <pitti> fabbione: i. e. internet through your mobile phone provider
[04:48] <pitti> fabbione: but the mobile acts as a modem in that case
[04:48] <fabbione> pitti: yes.. i know what it is 
[04:48] <fabbione> it's still a dial-up
[04:49] <pitti> sure
[04:49] <fabbione> doko: i assume you did a batch rebuild for all the python pkgs.. 
[04:49] <fabbione> doko: anything more than just a rebuild?
[04:50] <fabbione> doko: also.. ocfs2-tools_1.2.2-0ubuntu3_source.changes Rejected
[04:50] <pitti> what I don't understand is, what's the point of the python-{central,support} fu if it still requires large transitions?
[04:50] <fabbione> Exception while accepting: This sourcepackagerelease is already accepted in feisty.
[04:51] <azeem> just got one as well
[04:52] <doko> fabbione: iz a launchpad bug: I get an Rejected *and* an Accepted message for every package ...
[04:54] <ogra> YAY !
[04:54] <pitti> ogra: I added the remark 'not for ubuntu-desktop, just for main'
[04:54] <crimsun> thanks, pitti :)
[04:54] <ogra> yep, thats fine ...
[04:54] <pitti> ogra: oh, so you'll come to Oslo after all? yay
[04:54] <ogra> pitti, even though it micght end up on the CD as ltsp dependency
[04:54] <ogra> *might
[04:54] <pitti> sure, no problem with that
[04:55] <ogra> great :)
[04:55] <keescook> hm, any reason there's no /bin/usleep in (Debian and) Ubuntu?  I thought that used to exist?
[04:55] <sivang> doko: thanks for the rebuild :)
[04:56] <pitti> argh, apport ftbfs
[04:57] <fabbione> doko: you win
[04:57] <doko> pitti: if a package supports both 2.4 and 2.5, then I avoid an upload; unfortunately some packages still hardcode the python version
[04:57] <Mithrandir> keescook: just use sleep?
[04:58] <keescook> Mithrandir: oh, hm, you can give sleep a float.  hunh.
[04:58] <pitti> doko: ah, I see
[05:08] <stdin> hi, anyone here know why mplayer/mencoder is in multiverse not universe ?
[05:10] <Lathiat> because it has non-free code
[05:10] <pitti> stdin: mainly due to patent issues
[05:10] <Lathiat> well, yeh i guess thats more specific
[05:10] <pitti> Lathiat: hm, it's all free software AFAIK
[05:10] <Lathiat> i think it also depends on other stuff in multiverse
[05:10] <pitti> it's a bit hypocritic, though; xine has more or less the same code and is in main/universe
[05:11] <Lathiat> which has more patenty fun 
[05:11] <Lathiat> pitti: hrm i thought some of the libraries it can use is nonfree stuff etc but i could be wrong and am far from authorative on the issue :)
[05:11] <Lathiat> or that stuff may be left out of the package too
[05:12] <pitti> well, it can use w32codecs, but doesn't ship it
[05:13] <pitti> doko: I approved your java libs/jython MIRs, in case you want to shuffle around something
[05:14] <siretart> Lathiat: mplayer does not contain non-free code, and does not depend on any non-free code
[05:14] <doko> pitti: thanks
[05:14] <siretart> Lathiat: I personally don't think it belongs to multiverse, but rather to universe
[05:14] <stdin> the app itself is under gpl
[05:15] <Lathiat> doe sit depend on anything in multiverse?
[05:15] <siretart> nope
[05:15] <Lathiat> hrm ok
[05:15] <siretart> not that I knew
[05:15] <pitti> doko: oh dear, myspell, ispell, aspell, and now hunspell?
[05:15] <Lathiat> i was completely wrong so please ignore me thanks
[05:15] <Lathiat> :)
[05:15] <siretart> Lathiat: in debian mplayer is in main, btw.
[05:15] <pitti> siretart: uh, since when?
[05:15] <siretart> Lathiat: the only difference is, that in debian, mencoder was removed
[05:16] <stdin> it suggests w32codecs and libdvdcss, but it doesn't depend on them
[05:16] <pitti> ah
[05:16] <siretart> pitti: since a few months
[05:16] <Lathiat> lame is in universe
[05:16] <doko> pitti: trying to drop myspell. enchant already depends on it, OOo will depend on it, firefox needs to be done
[05:16] <Lathiat> s/universe/multiverse
[05:16] <Lathiat> lame is in multiverse
[05:16] <siretart> pitti: there were indeed some remaining licencing issues, like the tremor issue, but they were sorted out upstream
[05:16] <Lathiat> libmp4v2-0 (faad2) is also
[05:16] <Lathiat> not to say none of those could move
[05:17] <pitti> doko: but I assume/hope hunspell uses the same dictionary packages as myspell?
[05:17] <siretart> pitti: AFAIK debian ftp-master told the maintainer, that he would rather approve an mplayer package without mencoder, but wouldn't reject an mencoder at once either
[05:17] <doko> pitti: yes
[05:17] <siretart> pitti: so the maintainer dropped mencoder for getting mplayer into etch
[05:17] <pitti> siretart: too bad, mencoder is the only sane encoder that actually worked for me
[05:18] <pitti> apart from thoggen of course, but that takes two years to encode a movie
[05:18] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: I usually do that, I didn't for atlas3 because it was a rebuild, there was no ubuntu change. I'll subscribe u-u-s to ack it
[05:18] <siretart> well, its really a pitty, because ffmpeg is in debian/main as well, and does also contain various mpeg encoders
[05:18] <siretart> and so far, there were no legal problems
[05:19] <siretart> so I think it might be okay to have mencoder in debian as well, but that's not my call to decide
[05:19] <siretart> actually, I didn't really investigate our mplayer package enough to ask for promotion of mplayer in ubuntu to universe. I rather care for xine, you know ;)
[05:19] <pitti> siretart: historically the debate xine vs. mplayer and main has mainly been on a personal flamewar and upstream attitude level, I didn't actually see a compelling legal argument
[05:20] <siretart> pitti: the legal argument are the mpeg encoders, espec. stuff for mpeg 1 level 3 (aka mp3) and mpeg 4 encoders and aac stuff
[05:21] <pitti> siretart: what was the argument?
[05:21] <siretart> pitti: that they were actively enforced patents
[05:21] <pitti> "it's ok to ship stuff I like in main, and I dislike in universe, although both contain patented algorithms"?
[05:21] <pitti> ah, and those encoders aren't in xine?
[05:22] <siretart> in the sense, that fraunhofer (and others) are charging for them
[05:22] <siretart> pitti: xine doesn't encode
[05:22] <siretart> it only decodes
[05:22] <pitti> ok
[05:22] <siretart> which seems to be a difference to the patent holders
[05:22] <siretart> and mplayer in debian decodes only as well
[05:27] <pitti> siretart: hm, but I thought in the case of a patent infringement the GPL says that you cannot distribute the program at all; so what difference does universe and multiverse make in this case?
[05:27] <siretart> pitti: which part of the gpl mandates that?
[05:28] <mjg59> 7
[05:29] <siretart> ah, I remember
[05:34] <ogra> doko, did you hardcode hwdb to 2.5 or did you just drop all versioning from the deps ? 
[05:35] <ogra> (i thought i had switched it to "python (>= 2.4)" ages ago)
[05:35] <pitti> siretart: sorry for my dumb questions, but I'm still horribly confused by all this patent mess
[05:36] <pitti> seb128: yay for ppc blue screen fix :)
[05:36] <seb128> pitti: ;)
[05:36] <jono> where can I get the ubuntu logo used with usplash?
[05:37] <jono> need it for a presentation slide
[05:37] <siretart> pitti: I'm no patent expert either, I'm just reading stuff. I think we are not the only ones  who are horribly confused by this mess
[05:38] <siretart> pitti: e.g. aspectc++. Upstream lately got contacted with an email "how can you redistribute ac++ without paying fees to gregor kiczales?" - the answer is: he didn't sue, and in europe, there are no software patents
[05:39] <siretart> pitti: it isn't even clear, if their patents are valid at all!
[05:39] <ogra> err feisty-changes
[05:40] <siretart> pitti: for ffmpeg: the debian maintainer is rather conservative, and disables/removes codecs, from which he had evidence of lawsuits. 
[05:40] <pitti> siretart: they are probably valid in some countries?
[05:40] <siretart> pitti: most probably valid in us, but not (yet) in europe
[05:40] <siretart> but even there it is unclear, because no one has gone to court with that case
[05:41] <siretart> about most potential patents we are facing wrt mencoder, (at least I think so)
[05:42] <pitti> siretart: hm, but I agree that decoders are more important to have in a distro
[05:42] <pitti> siretart: since there is ogg, I never encoded anything into mp3 any more
[05:42] <siretart> pitti: even ogg isn't patent free
[05:42] <pitti> siretart: and if thoggen wasn't so exaggeratingly slow, I wouldn't need mencoder either any more
[05:43] <pitti> siretart: I thought it was designed to be? *darn*
[05:43] <siretart> pitti: according to ffmpeg upstream (from where I have this statement), it is nearly impossible to make any efficient encoding without touching any patents
[05:44] <pitti> hm, true
[05:44] <siretart> pitti: as I said, it is unclear if the patents, which mencoder or thoggen or what ever coudl violate, are valid at all, because nobody has sued yet. and very few are interested in finding that out :/
[05:45] <siretart> so the ffmpeg/mplayer devs are very dissapointed that most distributions refuse to ship their software, or that folks are telling, that their software was non-free.
[05:45] <siretart> but well, they have a strange attitude anyway :/
[05:46] <siretart> btw, does anyone know why debian syncs have stalled?
[05:46] <siretart> no time, technical problems or some freeze?
[05:46] <MagicFab> ffmpeg2theora has to be worse
[05:46] <pitti> siretart: sync freeze
[05:47] <siretart> pitti: huh? - since when?
[05:47] <pitti> siretart: see FeistyReleaseSchedule
[05:47] <MagicFab> or vlc
[05:47] <siretart> pitti: err, I'm talking about manually requested sync via malone
[05:47] <pitti> siretart: ah, those; they still work
[05:47] <pitti> siretart: just today Mithrandir did a whole bunch of stuff
[05:48] <siretart> ah. good to hear
[05:48] <pitti> siretart: these were stalled due to herd-2 release
[05:48] <siretart> aren't they announced on feisty-changes or something?
[05:48] <pitti> siretart: check your mail :)
[05:49] <ogra> they are :)
[05:49] <siretart> pitti: wow. good hint! :)
[05:53] <sladen> jono: apt-get source usplash-artwork or somesuch
[06:01] <Mirv> siretart: ogg (vorbis) is designed to be "patent-free", but of course in today's world anyone can sue anyone for some obscure software patent
[06:02] <siretart> Mirv: we were talking about ogg/theora before
[06:02] <Mirv> siretart: ah, ok, but theora is actually quite good, as there are patents covering it, but the patents are given to all of humankind for eternity (etc.) by On2...
[06:03] <Mirv> "better" in the sense if it's better in the software patent world that there are some "defending" patents
[06:03] <siretart> interesting
[06:03] <ogra> argh ... gst-pulse is a separate package ? 
[06:03] <ogra> meh .... more MIRs
[06:04] <ogra> seb128, do you know if there are plans to merge gst-pulse in the normal gstreamer source package ? 
[06:05] <seb128> ogra: no idea, maybe slomo knows about it
[06:05] <pitti> gst-plugins-good rather
[06:05] <ogra> ok
[06:05] <ogra> i'll ping him if he's here
[06:05] <ogra> seems silly to keep it separate ...
[06:06] <doko> mvo: ping
[06:06] <mvo> doko: pong
[06:09] <ogra> BenC, ping
[06:12] <troy_s> jono -- do you mean the same logo that is on the GDM?
[06:13] <ogra> crimsun, ping 
[06:17] <doko> pitti: http://librarian.launchpad.net/5714888/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.pygresql_1%3A3.8.1-1build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[06:19] <Mirv> pitti: too bad even hunspell isn't good enough, but hopefully even some of the *spell can be gotten rid of some day
[06:19] <pitti> doko: that's part of the libpq4->libpq5 transition I'm going to do soon; I'll have a look at it
[06:20] <doko> thanks
[06:23] <dholbach> heno: looks like xml info file support is working now
[06:23] <dholbach> heno: I didn't work on the 'inherits' and 'general clue' part yet, but at least and/or queries work now
[06:23] <heno> dholbach: excellent!
[06:24] <dholbach> i'll commit to my branch in a bit and write a mail to bugsquad@
[06:24] <BenC> ogra: pong
[06:24] <dholbach> heno: after that we can get to work and spread the word :-)
[06:24] <heno> cool, I'll need to come up with some test cases now
[06:24] <heno> yep
[06:27] <TuxCrafter> Hello guys
[06:27] <TuxCrafter> I am debugging a problem with my via sound chip
[06:28] <TuxCrafter> and I believe that the driver is bad and some times when a app want to connect to the sound device the total systems freezes 
[06:29] <TuxCrafter> I what to confirm this further by not allowing a app access to the sound device  
[06:29] <TuxCrafter> except for super user apps
[06:29] <TuxCrafter> how can I do this
[06:30] <stdin> maybe by changing permissions of /dev/dsp ?
[06:33] <TuxCrafter> c------r-- 1 root root 14, 3 2007-01-12 08:48 /dev/dsp
[06:33] <TuxCrafter> should that do it :-D
[06:33] <TuxCrafter> jup
[06:34] <TuxCrafter> It can also be a irq bug
[06:34] <stdin> umm, then you'd get no sound
[06:34] <TuxCrafter> but that will be vvery bad
[06:34] <TuxCrafter> indeed
[06:34] <TuxCrafter> no sound no system freezes I hope
[06:34] <stdin> crw------- root root ........ would do
[06:35] <TuxCrafter> and I will run my music with sudo :-P for test
[06:36] <ogra> BenC, my laptop behaves strange from time to time (stalls completely on input, restarting services takes up to 10min without any apparent reason (load is low, top doesnt show anything worrying, CPU is at 800MHz) and if i look in dmesg i see "APIC error on CPU0: 40(40)"
[06:36] <TuxCrafter> crw------- 1 root root 14, 3 2007-01-12 08:48 /dev/dsp
[06:36] <TuxCrafter> done
[06:37] <ogra> BenC, any hint what i can do there ? 
[06:38] <TuxCrafter> orga: disable apic for a will
[06:38] <ogra> TuxCrafter, thats indeed the first thing i try in such cases
[06:39] <BenC> ogra: /phone, brb
[06:39] <ogra> (booting with nolapic)
[06:39] <TuxCrafter> and?
[06:39] <ogra> doesnt change anything
[06:39] <TuxCrafter> did you change the grup params
[06:39] <ogra> else i wouldnt ask ben ;)
[06:39] <TuxCrafter> tried a vanila kernel
[06:39] <TuxCrafter> new one
[06:39] <pitti> hmm, how do I tell python's distutils about custom build switches? I need something like ./setup.py build --backend=backends/dpkg.py
[06:39] <ogra> no, i wouldnt touch vanilla
[06:40] <TuxCrafter> or build a kernel for ubuntu specs
[06:42] <TuxCrafter> pitti: don' know it but maybe you can try the #phyton channel
[06:42] <TuxCrafter> typo
[06:42] <doko> ogra: http://librarian.launchpad.net/5715953/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.hwdb-client_0.6-0ubuntu17_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[06:42] <ogra> TuxCrafter, i have a colleague caring for the kernel ... thats why i ping him ;) (as he would ping me for ltsp or edubuntu problems)
[06:42] <Amaranth> pitti: i always did a hack that checked to see if you ran 'build' and parsed custom switches on my own
[06:43] <Amaranth> pitti: then i said 'screw that' and switched to autofoo
[06:43] <pitti> Amaranth: argh, and removed them from sys.argv()?
[06:43] <pitti> s/()//
[06:43] <ogra> doko, you know the rule .... who ever touched it last :P
[06:43] <Amaranth> pitti: yeah
[06:43] <doko> Riddell: kdelibs4-dev: Depends: kdelibs4c2a (= 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-3ubuntu9) but it is not going to be installed
[06:43] <doko> any hints?
[06:43] <Amaranth> pitti: there might be a better way but i don't remember finding one
[06:44] <doko> ogra: please check; it looks unrelated to python
[06:44] <Amaranth> that's why i dropped it :)
[06:44] <ogra> ergh, where does that intltool stuff come from ... i didnt add that
[06:44] <Amaranth> well, that and intltool
[06:44] <ogra> Riddell, did you add intltool stuff to hwdb-client ? 
[06:45] <TuxCrafter> guy's i am laving and sdin: thanks for the feedback
[06:46] <dholbach> heno: mail sent - yeeeha :)
[06:46] <heno> dholbach: cool, reading
[06:47] <doko> pitti: move it in the debian/rules file. no crap in distutils please
[06:47] <heno> dholbach: great, I'll review and merge
[06:48] <dholbach> heno: gracias!
[06:48] <pitti> doko: 'crap'? I just want to define a custom option at setup.py install and use it to install a particular backend
[06:48] <heno> dholbach: Thank you!
[06:48] <pitti> doko: that should not really go into debian/rules; rules should just supply the correct backend value
[06:49] <dholbach> heno: oh... sorry let me remove the "#"s
[06:50] <dholbach> heno: done
[06:51] <heno> k
[06:52] <doko> pitti: ohh, I thought some kind of custom compilation flags ... ;)
[06:53] <geser> doko: kdelibs4c2a depends on launchpad-integration which depends on python (<< 2.5) and the rebuild launchpad-integration isn't on the archive yet
[06:55] <sladen> that sounds a bit strong.  to what extent does it really /depend/ ?
[06:58] <doko> geser: I see, looking at l-i
[07:08] <cjwatson> mdke: could you update the installation-guide on help.ubuntu.com? I think it's at least one revision back from what's in edgy
[07:08] <cjwatson> since apparently the devfs fix isn't in there
[07:37] <gnomefreak> is the python problem coming from kdelibs LP-I and py2.5 related 
[07:37] <gnomefreak> people cant update python is holding back all kinds of packages
[07:38] <ogra> yeah, doko is in the middle of a transition
[07:38] <gnomefreak> ok cool
[07:38] <gnomefreak> big mess in #ubuntu+1 atm :)
[07:38] <dholbach> doko: GO DOKO GO
[07:38] <ogra> add it to the topic ;)
[07:39] <gnomefreak> i did
[07:39] <gnomefreak> in a very scary way but i did :)
[07:40] <seb128> doesn't boot?
[07:40] <seb128> WTH?
[07:40] <seb128> what is broken?
[07:40] <seb128> lot of packages are not installable or what to be removed
[07:40] <seb128> but that should not break the world
[07:41] <gnomefreak> downgrading python seems to work atm. seb128 it boots for most people atm but we are leaving it there waiting on X adn usplash and stuff
[07:42] <seb128> ogra: 
[07:42] <seb128> "Feisty is very broken at the moment - prepare to chroot in if any of the updates have broken your system so it doesn't boot. Please DO NOT UPDATE YOUR FEISTY TODAY!!!"
[07:42] <seb128> that's from the topic of #ubuntu+1
[07:42] <ogra> oh, the topic
[07:42] <gnomefreak> yep
[07:43] <ogra> well it should still boot ...
[07:43] <gnomefreak> atm for most it does but very early it didnt boot
[07:43] <dholbach> doko says something about the atheros chipset?
[07:44] <thom> madwifi causes the kernel to BUG
[07:44] <ivoks> so does kvm-intel here too :)
[07:45] <seb128> gnomefreak: I would be curious to know what breaks the build still, that need to be fixed, I doubt that's the python transition
[07:45] <gnomefreak> seb128: the bigggest issue today is python 2.5 but i havent been hit by that bug (not real sure why)
[07:46] <ogra> but the python stuff is very very unlikely to prevent you from booting
[07:46] <gnomefreak> seb128: the kernel boots on most of the systems but there are still a few people saying they cant boot it
[07:46] <gnomefreak> ogra: differnt issue
[07:46] <ogra> right
[07:46] <ogra> but unidentified yet it seems
[07:46] <seb128> gnomefreak: well; the topic is scary and I don't have the feeling that feisty is that broken
[07:47] <gnomefreak> the python has nothing to do with booting. i dont know who added the non booting line but im leaving it because some people still cant
[07:47] <gnomefreak> python is affecting X it seems though 
[07:47] <gnomefreak> all i added was dont do updates today
[07:47] <ivoks> maybe 'doesn't boot' is derivation from 'gnome-desktop is broken'
[07:49] <gnomefreak> iirc the non booting was due to initramfs-tools that was already fixed (atleast here)
[08:22] <doko> Mithrandir: please requeue python-kde3, kdebindings, kde-guidance on all archs
[08:36] <mdke> Mithrandir: Colin has approved it, no?
[08:37] <mdke> cjwatson: yes, but I don't have access to the server, it will have to go through RT
[09:00] <geser> Mithrandir: could you please give-back gnomesword on sparc? it was successfully retried on all arch except sparc today. thanks
[09:17] <Riddell> ogra: mvo added intltool support, and I enabled it for the qt version
[09:23] <LaserJock> thanks for all the archive work
[09:28] <bddebian> heh
[09:43] <cjwatson> mdke: ok
[09:43] <cjwatson> mdke: will you file (or have you filed) that?
[09:44] <mdke> cjwatson: I'll need to prepare something for them to slot in
[09:45] <mdke> cjwatson: on the todo list for this weekend :)
[09:46] <cjwatson> ta
[10:18] <livingdaylight> hi
[10:20] <livingdaylight> what is the process of getting an application added to repositories?
[10:22] <dsas> livingdaylight: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
[10:23] <crimsun> ogra: pong
[10:51] <ogra> crimsun, pong
[10:51] <crimsun> ogra: hi
[10:51] <ogra> hey
[10:51] <ogra> i switched my ltsp clients to pulse 
[10:52] <ogra> using an asoundrc with pcm and ctl entries
[10:52] <ogra> but apparently the asa mixer doesnt work 
[10:52] <ogra> *alsa
[10:52] <crimsun> as in `alsamixer'?
[10:53] <ogra> no as in the panel applet
[10:53] <crimsun> err, which panel applet, pulse's?
[10:54] <ogra> no, gnomes
[10:54] <ogra> gnomes volume control applet ...
[10:54] <crimsun> ok, these are thin clients that lack local audio devices, correct?
[10:55] <ogra> no, they have local audio devices
[10:55] <ogra> thats where the sound comes out 
[10:55] <ogra> the user logs via ssh -X into the server from the client 
[10:55] <ogra> gnome-session is running on the server and ssh -X forwards the display to the client 
[10:56] <ogra> pulse is started on the client and PULSE_SERVER is set to point to the client on login
[10:56] <ogra> gstreamer is set to alsa
[10:56] <crimsun> instead of pulse?
[10:56] <ogra> and alsa uses the asoundrc (in ~/ for the testing, but that shouldnt have any influence i think)
[10:57] <ogra> works perfecttly fine ... apart from volume control
[10:57] <ogra> the asoundrc has:
[10:57] <ogra> pcm.!default {
[10:57] <ogra>     type pulse
[10:57] <ogra> }
[10:57] <ogra> ctl.!default {
[10:57] <ogra>     type pulse
[10:58] <ogra> }
[10:58] <crimsun> and ``aplay /usr/share/sounds/startup.wav'' is audible, correct?
[10:58] <ogra> hmm, i didnt try 
[10:58] <ogra> but the login sound (gstreamer) works and i can listen to radio through rhythmbox just fine
[10:59] <ogra> the gstreamer-properties testsound works as well
[10:59] <crimsun> right, GSt should work fine if you've installed and selected the pulse sink and source for it
[10:59] <ogra> i just cant adjust the main volume through the mixer applet
[10:59] <ogra> i didnt
[10:59] <ogra> i used the alsasink and the asoundrc
[10:59] <ogra> but i tested with the pulsesink and indeed that wors as well
[11:00] <ogra> *works
[11:01] <crimsun> ok, so two tests: 1) Does that aplay command above work? (it should)  2) Does selecting a different [pulse]  device in Volume Applet> Preferences affect the situation?
[11:03] <ogra> ok, i'll try that, i'm sadly not near any thin client now, thanks for the hints i didnt think about changing the mixer device 
[11:04] <crimsun> what I recommend using instead of the Volume Applet is Pulse's Device Chooser applet
[11:05] <crimsun> you can use that and choose pulse's Volume Control
[11:05] <ogra> hmm, i dont want to tweak the defaults of the desktop if possible 
[11:06] <crimsun> ok
[11:06] <ogra> users may log in on thin clients as well as directly on the server ... so the settings should be the same as much as possible 
[11:06] <ogra> thats why i try to only tweak stuff in the lowest leve
[11:06] <ogra> *level
[11:07] <crimsun> I know the Volume Applet works here, so it sounds like there's at least an environment variable difference if not also the fact that I'm not logging into an LTSP server
[11:08] <ogra> well, the volume applet would work if i played sound on the server ... it just doesnt seem to work over the network ... but i'll try changing the settings first and then see how i can achieve such a setup witout breaking on non-ltsp desktops
[11:46] <crimsun> keescook: that's a good question RE: acroread.
[11:47] <keescook> can any archive admins shed some light on why acroread has vanished from feisty?  :)
[11:48] <geser> I would guess it's the solution for bug 43780
[11:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43780 in acroread "Acroread: Redistribution may not be allowed" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/43780
[11:49] <keescook> geser: oh! heh
[11:53] <crimsun> welp, less work for us. We win.