[12:18] <tristanbob> I'll always be around with Ubuntu - and documentation is one of the ways that I can contribute
[12:18] <tristanbob> that and advocacy
[12:18] <mdke> go for it!
[12:18] <mdke> feel free to dive into our repository too :)
[12:20] <tristanbob> mdke: I can't seem to join the wiki team myself
[12:20] <mdke> you can apply
[12:21] <tristanbob> looks like I was a member and then left, now I don't get the option to apply again
[12:23] <mdke> tristanbob: really?
[12:24] <mdke> ok, reactivated
[12:25] <tristanbob> thanks mdke
[02:45] <robotgee1> nixternal: sorry, i havent been able to do any work on the kubuntu docs
[02:46] <nixternal> that's alright, I have been working little by little, but I have been tied up with some KDE Docs and KHelpCenter
[02:47] <robotgeek> nixternal: work + school is leaving me no time at all, i think i should officially take a hiatus
[02:47] <nixternal> hehe
[02:47] <nixternal> i hear you there
[02:47] <nixternal> school starts back up next week
[02:47] <nixternal> 20 credits, so i will be pretty busy as well
[02:48] <robotgeek> i only have 9, but i got to study (an almost entirely new area) for me, so that is a time sucker
[02:48] <robotgeek> i had lots of time when i was doing research, lol
[02:48] <nixternal> ya, i have anthropology and philosophy this semester and both of them are new to me as well
[02:48] <nixternal> ya, most of my classes are research and field based this time around
[02:49] <nixternal> those will be fairly easy, since i use some of the stuff i do here as field based
[02:49] <robotgeek> i dont want to leave the teams, but i dont want to give the impression that i will get anything done
[02:52] <nixternal> well, jsgotangco is on a hiatus now, and checks in every now and then
[02:53] <nixternal> mgalvin took a little break, it happens, everyone needs a break every now and then
[02:53] <nixternal> everytime i start to burn out a little bit i get involved with something new to respark my interest
[02:53] <robotgeek> yeah, i will keep checking back in, hopefully i will start back work during summer
[02:54] <robotgeek> i already spend > 14 hours in front of the computer, it doesn't feel very nice to work after that :P
[02:54] <nixternal> hehe, i definitely know that feeling
[02:56] <crimsun> now imagine what I go through.
[02:56] <nixternal> no doubt, you spend 26 hours a day on the computer
[02:56] <crimsun> closer to 76, it feels like
[02:56] <robotgeek> i am a mere mortal, crimsun :)
[02:56] <crimsun> robotgeek: I'm not even a mortal; I'm a peon.
[02:57] <robotgeek> anyways, i gotta run. maybe catch some extra sleep for tomorrow
[02:57] <robotgeek> later guys!
[02:57] <crimsun> cya
[02:58] <nixternal> later
[03:07] <glatzor> ping mdke
[03:07] <glatzor> mdke: do you know when there will be a new version of the translated edgy documentation?
[05:10] <willvdl> hi folks, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThinClients refers ti EdubuntuInstallNotes which is blank..
[08:36] <mdke> glatzor: none planned atm. You think it would be advisable?
[08:37] <glatzor> mdke: for sure. it was quite an effort to translate the desktop guide.
[08:38] <glatzor> mdke: and the end of edgy comes nearer every day.
[08:38] <mdke> glatzor: well, not the "end" :) But sure, we'll consider it then
[08:39] <mdke> glatzor: do you know if all those errors were fixed?
[08:41] <glatzor> mdke: wait, I will check it.
[08:42] <mdke> I don't know if we should update it on a per-language basis, or for all languages
[08:46] <glatzor> mdke: are there any other languages that made good progress?
[08:46] <glatzor> you could drop a mail to ubuntu.translators which teams would like to see a release
[08:47] <glatzor> mdke: the bugs don't affect the desktop guide. and I am sorry, but I don't have the patience to fix typos at the moment.
[08:47] <mdke> glatzor: I meant the validation errors...
[08:47] <glatzor> mdke: I could do this at Sunday.
[08:48] <glatzor> mdke: http://files.glatzor.de/dg/desktopguide/de/
[08:48] <mdke> that sounds like a yes
[08:49] <glatzor> I haven't build it in the last three weeks or so.
[08:50] <glatzor> But we only fixed minor typos in this phase.
[08:53] <mdke> glatzor: ok, good job
[08:55] <mdke> nixternal: our policy until now has been to avoid using xrefflags
[09:09] <nixternal> why is that?
[09:09] <nixternal> they work great for linking w/o getting the 'the section blah blah'
[09:14] <nixternal> mdke: do you recommend using <link linkend='blah'>Blah</link> isntead?
[09:39] <mdke> nixternal: you should use xref, I think
[09:39] <mdke> what's wrong with "the section"?
[09:39] <nixternal> i don't want the words "the section" for some of the links im doing
[09:40] <mdke> nixternal: why?
[09:40] <nixternal> because im using htem in a list, to link to another section w/in the document
[09:41] <nixternal> they are fine when using the "See <xref linkend="blah"/>"
[09:41] <mpt> nixternal, actually, I don't think "the section" is ever appropriate
[09:41] <mpt> so maybe report a bug asking for it to be removed
[09:41] <nixternal> i have no problem rewording the document though to make them work in order to follow along with the policy though
[09:41] <mdke> mpt: in Kubuntu, he can remove it himself
[09:41] <mpt> cool
[09:42] <mdke> in the build stage
[09:42] <mdke> nixternal: tbh, I can't remember the reason that we decided to avoid them. I bet there was a really good one though
[09:42] <mdke> we never take wrong decisions
[09:42] <mdke> >_>
[09:42] <mdke> <+<
[09:42] <nixternal> hehe
[09:42] <nixternal> lol
[09:42] <mpt> We just take circuitous routes to victory
[09:42] <LaserJock> that's right
[09:42] <nixternal> couldn't have said it better myself
[09:43] <nixternal> i will go through and doctor them up, there is a still a "TON" of work to do in that section
[09:43] <nixternal> i scoured the forums (Ubuntu & Kubuntu), the wiki, and used strigi on my lists to come up with an entire list of questions
[09:43] <LaserJock> I dislike those "the section" things
[09:43] <LaserJock> I'd rather use my own wording
[09:44] <nixternal> same here LaserJock
[09:44] <nixternal> anybody want to take a couple of sections of the Kubuntu TBH :)
[09:44] <LaserJock> TBH?
[09:44] <mdke> nixternal: i will look through the archive because I'm curious now
[09:45] <mdke> LaserJock: can you remember?
[09:45] <mdke> LaserJock: iirc, it was in relation to the packaging guide that it came up
[09:45] <LaserJock> which topic?
[09:45] <mdke> LaserJock: xreflabels v. no xreflabels
[09:45] <LaserJock> why we went to xrefs instead of linend or something
[09:46] <LaserJock> oh, well it was because of translatablility
[09:46] <mdke> OH YEAH!
[09:46] <LaserJock> because the labels are in the tag
[09:46] <mdke> I KNEW IT!
[09:46] <mdke> always a good reason
[09:46] <mdke> LaserJock: you're a genius, nice one
[09:46] <LaserJock> but I'd rather it default to putting no lanuguage in
[09:47] <LaserJock> heh, I'm surprised my brain coughed that one up ;-)
[09:47] <LaserJock> now where did my pen go ...
[09:47] <mdke> the absent minded genius...
[09:47] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:47] <LaserJock> I got the absent minded professor thing down really well
[09:48] <LaserJock> Quantum Mechanics is ok, it's just remembing how to add that gets me some times ;-)
[09:49] <mdke> mpt: I took your name in vain on bug 77033, by the way
[09:49] <Ubug2> Malone bug 77033 in gnome-panel "Remove "Online Documentation" from System/Help menu" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77033
[09:51] <mdke> we need to get cracking on integrating material from the book so that we can get that other superfluous menu entry removed
[09:54] <nixternal> who wants to come to chicago in april and give a talk along side Chris Dibona at Flourish? (an OSS event)
[09:54] <nixternal> well then, come on down ;)
[09:54] <mdke> I wish :(
[09:55] <nixternal> Ubuntu Chicago is going to have a booth, and they want me (or somebody) to give a talk about Feisty and the future
[09:56] <mdke> invite sabdfl
[09:57] <nixternal> heh, i will CC him in an email to spark interest
[09:57] <nixternal> i mean, Chris Dibona, we need someone BIG
[10:04] <mdke> what's a good subdomain for webmail? mail and webmail are ruled out
[10:04] <mdke> I was thinking maybe postbox
[10:06] <nixternal> loveletters.mdke.org
[10:06] <dsas> presuming the other subdomains are in use by others and won't get confused, what's wrong with "email"  ?
[10:06] <mdke> dsas: yes, maybe that's the way forward
[10:07] <dsas> mailbox could also be good.
[10:07] <mdke> mailboxes is used, maybe mailbox is free
[10:18] <mpt> mdke, btw, "System Documentation" is a load of syllables, I'd much prefer "Ubuntu Help"
[10:24] <mdke> mpt: that repeats the higher menu title... "Documentation" is what I'd suggest
[10:25] <mdke> it contrasts nicely with Community/Commercial support
[10:25] <mdke> mpt: by the way sabdfl has posted again :(
[10:27] <nixternal> im not getting wiki messages anymore, something is broke (wiki edit messages)
[10:43] <nixternal> i take that back, further research indicates that gmail has began marking Wiki messages and ubuntu-marketing-owner messages as SPAM
[10:43] <nixternal> nice
[10:52] <dsas> nixternal: They've made their spam filter more aggressive this week apparently
[10:52] <nixternal> obviously
[10:52] <nixternal> they have a lot of "Ubuntu" email in there
[10:54] <mpt> mdke, yes, but using jargon synonyms isn't really better than repetition :-P
[10:55] <mdke> mpt: the problem with help is that it isn't distinguished with the other entries in the menu, that's *why* it's the title of the menu
[10:56] <mpt> "System Documentation" isn't distinguished either
[10:56] <mpt> at least, not in a way that anyone would understand.
[10:57] <mpt> (And yes, this is a symptom of the problem of trying to explain the various types of help in something as small as a menu.)
[10:57] <mdke> mpt: I suggested "Documentation"
[10:57] <mpt> Nobody wants documentation.
[10:57] <mpt> ok, I should clarify that
[10:57] <mdke> hell, I'd be in favour of abolishing the help menu too and including links on the front page, but can you please convince Mark?
[10:57] <mpt> No non-geeks want documentation
[10:58] <mdke> are you good at leaning on Mark?
[10:59] <mpt> mdke, I think the most likely way of doing that is forcing him to watch people try to use it. I don't think that will happen soon, though.
[10:59] <mdke> :(
[10:59] <mdke> what I'd like is if the docteam got trusted on things like the help menu
[11:00] <mdke> but he seems pretty resistant
[11:00] <mdke> I'll go round his house with some heavies
[11:00] <mpt> uhhhh
[11:00] <mpt> Never mind the heavies
[11:01] <mdke> he has bodyguards?
[11:01] <mpt> You live in the same city, why not call him up and ask if you can meet face-to-face?
[11:01] <mdke> ah, that's a serious suggestion
[11:01] <mdke> good plan
[11:02] <mpt> I really need to go out now, but I'll e-mail you later
[11:02] <mdke> mpt: :)