[12:15] <tsmithe> k Lutin; it's up; and i'm going to sleep - the proxy is always on though, so if you have any comments just pm me. thanks
[12:15] <Lutin> ok, g'night tsmithe
[12:16] <tsmithe> kthxbi
[12:21] <Lutin> tsmithe: the notice you put in copyright to say you removed korg1212 would be better in README.Debian imo (if you want to provide info, because a line in the changelog could be enough)
[12:22] <tsmithe> ok
[12:25] <tsmithe> i've left it in the changelog, and added a not to README.Debian
[12:28] <Lutin> tsmithe: to make lintian happy, you can also remove the '.' at the end of your short description ^^
[12:29] <tsmithe> ok
[12:31] <LaserJock> tsmithe: how do you mean?
[12:31] <tsmithe> and whenever he looks away they finish
[12:31] <tsmithe> LaserJock, meh - /me just being impatient :P
[12:32] <Lutin> tsmithe: in general it's also good to say what patches does what in the changelog, eg. foo1.patch: <whatitdoes>. makes life easier
[12:32] <persia> tsmithe: Uploads follow the same temporal rules as boiling water :)
[12:32] <tsmithe> persia, and broth ;)
[12:32] <tsmithe> Lutin, ok
[12:32] <tsmithe> i thought the names were rather self-explanatory, but ok
[12:33] <Lutin> tsmithe: when you put the names in the changelog you can track the changes on the package then
[12:33] <tsmithe> yes
[12:34] <Lutin> eg.oh yeah, patch foo was added at revision xxx
[12:34] <tsmithe> Lutin, ahh ok
[12:34] <LaserJock> hi teer2 :-)
[12:35] <teer2> LaserJock: ah, hello again.
[12:35] <teer2> LaserJock: Should I explain it again?
[12:35] <LaserJock> teer2: nah
[12:35] <LaserJock> we have a system for reviewing and including packages called REVU
[12:35] <LaserJock> !revu
[12:35] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[12:36] <LaserJock> teer2: the thing we need is for the games to be freely distributable
[12:36] <teer2> LaserJock: That's what I'm looking for, right there.  Thank you for the web link.
[12:36] <LaserJock> teer2: they don't have to be open source (although we would certainly like it if they were) but we *have* to be able to legaly distribute them on our servers
[12:36] <teer2> LaserJock: Now, do they need to create builds for each Ubuntu disto version?
[12:37] <LaserJock> teer2: not unless something changes where they need to
[12:37] <teer2> LaserJock: Do they have to be source code, or can they distribute binaries?
[12:37] <LaserJock> they can be in binary form, we'll still make up a source package to build a .deb out of it
[12:37] <LaserJock> obviously we would prefer source code
[12:37] <LaserJock> as we can fix bugs, do security, etc.
[12:38] <teer2> LaserJock: Right... but, well, I can check the temperature on that one.
[12:38] <LaserJock> basically it comes down to, if it's closed source but we can distribute it then it goes to Multiverse
[12:38] <teer2> LaserJock: And they can ask questions about that in hee, right?
[12:38] <teer2> LaserJock: *here
[12:38] <LaserJock> if it's free (as in freedom) with source code, etc. we can put it into Universe
[12:38] <LaserJock> teer2: sure
[12:39] <teer2> LaserJock: So -- what if it was a (let's make something up) a 200 MB binary, proprietary, freely distributable game demo.  Are you saying they could go through this process and get it hosted?
[12:40] <LaserJock> teer2: I would think so
[12:40] <teer2> LaserJock: or do they provide the hosting and the Ubuntu universe would just point to the file location?
[12:40] <LaserJock> no
[12:40] <LaserJock> we put everything in our mirrors
[12:41] <teer2> LaserJock: Okay, so all the hosting would be done through the mirrors.  Interesting.
[12:41] <teer2> LaserJock: Very interesting.
[12:41] <LaserJock> although, with something that big, it might be better to point to a file
[12:41] <LaserJock> I'm not sure
[12:41] <tsmithe> Lutin, it's up: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4049
[12:41] <tsmithe> :)
[12:41] <LaserJock> but we have games that are at least 50MB in
[12:41] <LaserJock> I believe
[12:42] <teer2> LaserJock: Started a linux gaming advocacy site, linuxgamingworld.com  --  trying to get new life in the commercial, professionally linux-supported gaming scene.
[12:43] <LaserJock> teer2: we do have a gaming team
[12:43] <LaserJock> they might be the best to talk with
[12:43] <LaserJock> I'm not really up on that
[12:43] <teer2> LaserJock: How so?  How can I contact them?
[12:43] <persia> teer2: There does seem to be a limit in size.  The uqm package has a large separate hosting for some optional portions of the game (around 200MB), and only has about 50MB in the repositories.
[12:43] <LaserJock> ah, that makes sense
[12:44] <LaserJock> teer2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Games
[12:44] <teer2> LaserJock: I am so there.
[12:45] <teer2> Thanks for your help persia and LaserJock.  Any other suggestions for me?
[12:45] <LaserJock> teer2: learn how to package and join the team ;-)
[12:45] <teer2> If you think of anything, my contact info is on the site.
[12:46] <teer2> LaserJock: I will try!
[12:46] <teer2> Cheers -- Have Fun!!!
[12:46] <Lutin> tsmithe: my limits are here ;). (just a note, to make lintian happy you r long desc in control should with only one space instead of two)
[12:57] <keescook> crimsun: thanks for getting acroread updated.
[12:57] <keescook> I was looking at the acroread libs, and there's nothing stopping us from changing the packaging to let acroread run on amd64...
[12:59] <ajmitch> all the bits are there?
[12:59] <keescook> ajmitch: yup.  it's how I uncovered the ia32-libs-gtk issues
[01:00] <keescook> I'm running it right now (and uploaded a fixed ia32-libs-gtk too)
[01:01] <keescook> The only part I'm unsure about is the sanity of my Depends: line.
[01:01] <keescook> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, libldap2, libcupsys2, libstdc++5 [!amd64] , ia32-libs-gtk [!i386] 
[01:01] <keescook> Debian Policy seems to imply that [] 's are only valid in build-deps...
[01:02] <ajmitch> and mixing shlibs:Depends with explicit dependencies
[01:02] <ajmitch> worst case, you could generate depends from rules & use misc:Depends :)
[01:02] <ajmitch> but I don't think that'd be nice
[01:03] <keescook> the rules is already a little ugly because I need to NOT include mozilla-acroread ...
[01:03] <ajmitch> maybe checkout vmware-player
[01:05] <ajmitch> as I thought
[01:05] <ajmitch> it sets ARCH_DEPS in debian/rules
[01:05] <keescook>     dh_gencontrol -- -Varchdeps="$(ARCH_DEPS)"
[01:05] <keescook> yeah
[01:06] <LaserJock> ajmitch is da man ;-)
[01:06] <ajmitch> that's quite nasty still, since it requires hard-coding all those libs in debian/rules
[01:07] <keescook> seems like overkill, can't it to both?
[01:08] <ajmitch> it's just avoiding the use of shlibs, since it needs the 32-bit libs on amd64
[01:08] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ha, very funny
[01:12] <plugwash__> surely the real soloution is to fix shlibs to properly handle 32 bit binaries in 64 bit packages
[01:56] <persia> When I modify the Maintainer field to Ubuntu defaults, does this belong in the changelog, or should it be assumed by the -ubuntu versioning scheme?
[01:58] <LaserJock> persia: what?
[01:58] <LaserJock> you shouldn't need to mess with Maintainer:
[01:58] <LaserJock> unless you are packaging from scratch
[01:59] <persia> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleasePlan, and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField.
[02:00] <LaserJock> persia: you should check with mdz to see if we are really doing that
[02:00] <Adri2000> persia: that is done automatically by the buildds
[02:00] <persia> Adri2000: For binary packages, but for source?
[02:01] <persia> LaserJock: Is he usually on #ubuntu-devel?
[02:01] <LaserJock> persia: yeah
[02:01] <LaserJock> I don't know that I've ever seen anybody change the source package yet
[02:02] <Adri2000> we shouldn't change the maintainer field, buildds do it:
[02:02] <Adri2000> pkgmaintainermangler: Maintainer field overridden to "Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"
[02:03] <LaserJock> Adri2000: but according to the spec we will be
[02:03] <LaserJock> not sure if that's in place yet or not
[02:04] <Adri2000> the maintainer field can be different between the source and the binary package?
[02:04] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:04] <LaserJock> hence the "mangler"
[02:04] <persia> Adri2000: I think that's what pkgmaintainermangler does.
[02:06] <sistpoty> hi folks
[02:07] <persia> Adri2000: A mangler is something or someone that mangles.  To mangle to to render unrecognisable through random changes (fold, spindle, and mutilate).
[02:07] <LaserJock> hi sistpoty 
[02:07] <sistpoty> hi LaserJock
[02:07] <Sp4rKy> gd night guys
[02:08] <sistpoty> gn8 Sp4rKy
[02:08] <Adri2000> ok persia :)
[02:08] <somerville32> Whens the next MOTU meeting?
[02:08] <somerville32> Err..
[02:08] <LaserJock> whenever it is
[02:09] <somerville32> s/MOTU/MOTU Council
[02:09] <LaserJock> well, we need a Council first
[02:09] <LaserJock> then we can have a meeting :-)
[02:09] <somerville32> I think we should allow commenting on packages by non MOTU, lol
[02:09] <ajmitch> and the council needs the TB to meet first
[02:09] <Adri2000> TB meeting next week
[02:09] <Adri2000> friday
[02:09] <somerville32> Wee
[02:10] <crimsun> keescook: sorry for the delay, busy with work. I have a couple others (gxine, vlc) on the table, too.
[02:10] <Adri2000> tuesday*
[02:10] <LaserJock> did we miss a TB meeting?
[02:10] <Adri2000> :p
[02:10] <LaserJock> this has taken forever to get a Council approved
[02:10] <somerville32> LaserJock, There was one just the other day
[02:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: probably due to holidays
[02:10] <keescook> crimsun: cool.
[02:10] <LaserJock> we had pretty much everything together in November
[02:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: oh, UDS wasn't *that* long ago ;)
[02:10] <keescook> crimsun: I have a patch I'd like others to look at before I upload it, but it'd let acroread run on amd64.
[02:10] <sistpoty> crimsun, Nafallo, keescook: we should announce motu-swat on the mailing list ;)
[02:11] <LaserJock> we are going to have most of the useful part of the release cycle done with before we have a Council :(
[02:11] <somerville32> What is motu-swat?
[02:11] <LaserJock> MOTU Security
[02:11] <keescook> sistpoty: yes please!  I'm sorry I haven't mentioned it anywhere, I've been totally swamped
[02:11] <sistpoty> somerville32: security team for universe
[02:11] <crimsun> keescook: mm!
[02:11] <ajmitch> LaserJock: sure, but that shouldn't stop people from doing work
[02:11] <somerville32> OoOoOO :)
[02:11] <ajmitch> sistpoty: finally!
[02:11] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but I believe it is
[02:12] <sistpoty> keescook: ok, I'll write a mail...
[02:12] <ajmitch> yay, another team I could join
[02:12] <sistpoty> ajmitch: please do ;)
[02:12] <somerville32> I read that there were efforts to modify revu to allow for non-motu to comment on uploads. I think this is an excellent idea :)
[02:12] <crimsun> LaserJock is a deity; it's not like he needs to do work ;)
[02:12] <LaserJock> somerville32: I don't
[02:12] <somerville32> LaserJock: Why?
[02:13] <LaserJock> somerville32: because people rely on the quality of those comments
[02:13] <LaserJock> it should be a 2 way communication between the people contributing and the MOTUs who are approving
[02:13] <LaserJock> not that giving advice is a bad idea
[02:14] <ajmitch> sistpoty: nah, I don't think I'll join any more teams
[02:14] <LaserJock> but a contributor should be able to have a level of expectation that the comments are acurate
[02:14] <somerville32> LaserJock: Whats the difference between asking someone here in the chatroom and on revu?
[02:14] <LaserJock> crimsun: bah, dieties are supposed to do 2x as much work ;-)
[02:15] <LaserJock> somerville32: because REVU is our "official" method of contribution review
[02:15] <somerville32> LaserJock: Then maybe we need an intermediate unofficial method
[02:15] <LaserJock> I think this channel and the mailing list would probably suffice, but perhaps
[02:15] <persia> somerville32: Here is probably good.  Non-MOTUs who comment can be corrected by MOTUs when they make mistakes.
[02:16] <LaserJock> this comes up fairly regularly
[02:16] <somerville32> Right but the issue is if people aren't here
[02:16] <somerville32> I'd love to be able to take the list and work my way through it and share my wisdom where I can
[02:16] <somerville32> And lighten up the load for real MOTUs
[02:16] <geser> is uploading to revu the only way to get an account which is necessary to be able to comment?
[02:16] <LaserJock> we have allowed a few exceptions where a person that has demonstrated are good reviewers they can be given reviewing rights
[02:17] <somerville32> LaserJock: Thats an excellent idea!
[02:17] <somerville32> Maybe we should document a process in which to be granted reviewing rights
[02:17] <LaserJock> geser: you have to be a MOTU (or exception) to comment on other people's uploads
[02:17] <LaserJock> somerville32: I think not, IMO, it should be a rare thing
[02:18] <somerville32> LaserJock: Alrighty then. Just more work for you ;] 
[02:18] <LaserJock> if it's really bugging you, become a MOTU and start reviewing :-)
[02:18] <somerville32> lol
[02:18] <LaserJock> you can also review-by-proxy
[02:18] <somerville32> Maybe I'll do just that
[02:18] <ajmitch> bddebian is always willing to help out, I'm sure :)
[02:18] <crimsun> :)
[02:19] <geser> LaserJock: I'm a MOTU :) but doesn't have an account on revu
[02:19] <LaserJock> geser: then get one :-)
[02:19] <geser> by uploading to revu?
[02:19] <LaserJock> geser: no, by asking a revu admin
[02:19] <crimsun> on another note, I'm surprised at how often people "just want stuff packaged for Ubuntu" but don't put in any work
[02:19] <LaserJock> like the Candidates list? :-)
[02:20] <somerville32> hehe
[02:20] <ajmitch> because they don't understand how contributing to free software works..
[02:20] <crimsun> "I want my Claws Mail now zomgponies!"
[02:21] <LaserJock> crimsun: well, I got an upstream author to start packaging some chemistry stuff for Debian/Ubuntu today
[02:21] <LaserJock> crimsun: hehe
[02:21] <LaserJock> that was interesting
[02:21] <geser> http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/unimultiverse-all.html lists nearly 650 packages which are in Ubuntu but not in Debian
[02:21] <persia> I was under the impression that Candidates was actually useful.  There is a package in debian-mentors (alephone), that I would like to see in Ubuntu.  How should I proceed to get it in?
[02:22] <LaserJock> do people actually look at Candidates?
[02:22] <Adri2000> persia: once it is in debian, sync request
[02:22] <LaserJock> I'd never go there to find something to package ;-)
[02:22] <Adri2000> LaserJock: yes :)
[02:22] <persia> Adri2000: It's been a couple years :)
[02:23] <LaserJock> a wiki page for that sort of thing is bordering on insane :-)
[02:23] <LaserJock> and he's not bitter ;-)
[02:23] <Adri2000> persia: that it is in debian-mentors?
[02:23] <ajmitch> our job would be much easier if we didn't have users
[02:23] <ajmitch> far less bugreports, for one
[02:23] <LaserJock> ajmitch: agreed
[02:24] <somerville32> How do you distinguish between a user and a contributor?
[02:24] <persia> Adri2000: I've been downloading it from there.  I put a link up in Candidates.
[02:25] <LaserJock> somerville32: a contributor is somebody who contributes :-)
[02:25] <somerville32> LaserJock, Is a user not contributing by giving feedback? ;] 
[02:25] <LaserJock> usually no
[02:25] <LaserJock> sometimes yes
[02:26] <persia> For those that are curious, official word is that the Maintainer should be manually mangled in the source package during merges, and the change documented in the changelog.
[02:27] <Adri2000> :-|
[02:27] <ajmitch> yay, more rules
[02:27] <superm1> crimsun, i looked at the branch for mythplugins, and i noticed that some things were indeed missing on what was on bzr.  i apparently they were committing to my own branch for my user name not to ubuntu-mythtv.  i've got everything properly setup now
[02:27] <sistpoty> geser: I can make you a revu account... just tell me the email you want to use
[02:28] <geser> sistpoty: geser@ubuntu.com
[02:30] <LaserJock> hmm, so I "get" to send the email to -announce?
[02:30] <ajmitch> yep
[02:30] <Adri2000> :
[02:30] <LaserJock> persia: well, thanks for bringing it up, I guess ;-)
[02:31] <ajmitch> you're a superstar, you can do it!
[02:31] <LaserJock> bah
[02:31] <LaserJock> I still don't get done 1/10th of what I want to
[02:31] <persia> LaserJock: Sorry to cause you extra work, but credit really belongs to ScottK, who mentioned it ~15 hours ago.
[02:31] <ajmitch> so you're doing 100x better than I am :)
[02:31] <geser> LaserJock: get used to it
[02:33] <sistpoty> geser: hm... I can't find a gpg key for that email, so pw recovery will fail. 
[02:33] <crimsun> superm1: ok, thanks for investigating.
[02:34] <geser> sistpoty: I haven't add that address as uid to key yet
[02:34] <geser> sistpoty: use michael@vorlon.ping.de instead (0x968BD587)
[02:35] <sistpoty> geser: ok, I was just about to write you your pw ;)
[02:35] <superm1> crimsun, mythtv should be good though, i just checked out from the branch made made sure
[02:36] <sistpoty> geser: ok, updated... you should be able to recover your pw now ;)
[02:36] <geser> sistpoty: thanks
[02:36] <sistpoty> np
[02:49] <Toadstool> wow, never heard of this maintainer thing before... good to know
[02:58] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:58] <persia> hi bddebian
[02:59] <bddebian> Heya persia
[02:59] <sistpoty> hi bddebian
[02:59] <bddebian> Hi sistpoty
[03:06] <LaserJock> oh darn, should ubuntu-devel be the contact now that it's moderated?
[03:06] <LaserJock> I remember Matt talking with somebody about that
[03:06] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[03:06] <LaserJock> hi bddebian 
[03:07] <LaserJock> ah, found it on -devel :-)
[03:08] <crimsun> *light bulb*
[03:08] <crimsun> I just realized I can resolve this headache once and for all by having _backport_ crack addicts do subsystem maintenance work!
[03:09] <bddebian> heh
[03:09] <bddebian> crimsun: Have you (or can you) look at murrine now?
[03:09] <bddebian> Well, not right now, but I mean now that he updated it.
[03:10] <crimsun> he updated COPYING to use the correct FSF address?
[03:10] <bddebian> Oh, is that new?
[03:10] <crimsun> (that's the last issue about which I spoke with Andrew)
[03:11] <crimsun> afaik he's waiting on upstream to address that
[03:11] <bddebian> Was that today?
[03:11] <keescook> crimsun: I gotta run, but I think the amd64 on acroread patch looks like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/acroread-amd64.patch
[03:11] <keescook> I haven't tested that patch against your 7.0.9 package, though.
[03:11] <crimsun> bddebian: approx 16 hrs ago
[03:11] <crimsun> keescook: ok, thanks
[03:12] <bddebian> crimsun: Ah, OK
[03:17] <LaserJock> man, I hate email :/
[03:17] <LaserJock> it always takes forever and is way to wordy
[03:19] <sistpoty> hehe, yep
[03:21] <crimsun> amusing, isn't it then, that status updates for bugs occur via email?
[03:22] <LaserJock> yeah, I hate that
[03:22] <LaserJock> I hardly ever read bugmail
[03:22] <crimsun> you're a deity; you don't have to read bugmail
[03:23] <LaserJock> crimsun: I prefer +subscribedbugs pages but I do use the email to get the URL of what's going on
[03:23] <LaserJock> maybe that's why Debian's BTS and I don't get along :-)
[03:23] <crimsun> I love lp.net/bugs/foo and bugs.debian.org/foo
[03:24] <ajmitch> crimsun doesn't read bug mail, he knows with a single glance all the bugs that are, have been, or are yet to be
[03:24] <LaserJock> mhm
[03:24] <crimsun> that would be so sweet
[03:24] <LaserJock> the omiscient, omnipotent, and nice guy MOTU
[03:25] <persia> For a patch to dpkg, should I upload the file patch or a debdiff?
[03:25] <crimsun> same practice as usual (debdiff) won't hurt
[03:25] <persia> crimsun: Thanks.
[03:25] <LaserJock> persia: I'd do a file patch if you think it might involve the sponsor doing other work on it
[03:26] <LaserJock> but mostly debdiffs work as crimsun beat me to
[03:26] <persia> LaserJock: It's only to add support for Original-Maintainer, and is pretty clean.
[03:27] <LaserJock> oh, I don't know that I'd do a patch just for that
[03:27] <LaserJock> or are you meaning support for dpkg to work with X-Original-Maintainer?
[03:29] <persia> LaserJock: No, "Original-Maintainer".  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleasePlan.
[03:30] <persia> more verbosely, so that dpkg-deb doesn't complain when the Original-Maintainer field is added to debian/control (bug 78879).
[03:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78879 in dpkg "dpkg doesn't support the Original-Maintainer field" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78879
[03:30] <LaserJock> persia: the spec says X-Original-Maintainer
[03:30] <LaserJock> bah, but .debs seem to have Original-Maintainer
[03:30] <LaserJock> darn it
[03:31] <LaserJock> well, I knew my email was going to suck
[03:32] <persia> OK.  Now to whom should I subscribe the bug to get it uploaded?
[03:32] <LaserJock> ubuntu-sponsors
[03:32] <persia> LaserJock: Thanks.
[03:33] <ajmitch> there's a new team? :)
[03:33] <LaserJock> no, never
[03:33] <persia> LaserJock: Apparently that's ubuntu-main-sponsors :)
[03:33] <LaserJock> persia: ah, I thought it was originally ubuntu-sponsors, my mistake
[03:33] <LaserJock> it's impossible to keep up with all of this
[03:33] <crimsun> note: u-m-s isn't going to do anything until the maintainer signs off on it, so it'd be premature to sub u-m-s
[03:33] <persia> LaserJock: It probably was.  Teams seem to change frequently.
[03:34] <bddebian> No kidding it is
[03:34] <LaserJock> the only thing to do let crimsun do it all
[03:34] <persia> OK.  Unsubscribing.
[03:34] <persia> Nevermind.  I can't.
[03:34] <LaserJock> crimsun: then what's the point of u-m-s? I thought the whole idea was that the u-m-s team would upload for you
[03:35] <LaserJock> although I can see needing a MOTU ack or something
[03:35] <ajmitch> pfft
[03:35] <persia> LaserJock: What does a MOTU ack do for main?
[03:35] <ajmitch> s/u-*-s/crimsun/
[03:35] <crimsun> LaserJock: it's dpkg, which is core, and you don't want that touched without a sign-off
[03:35] <ajmitch> why do we bother with teams when we have crimsun?
[03:35] <LaserJock> crimsun: again, then what's the point?
[03:36] <persia> ajmitch: crimsun sleeps (on alternate Tuesdays)
[03:36] <ajmitch> there are plenty of things in main that wouldn't need special sign-off
[03:36] <LaserJock> if you have to go through the maintainer anyway why use u-m-s
[03:36] <LaserJock> ajmitch: true
[03:36] <crimsun> LaserJock: u-m-s is for uploads, of course. It just makes for a bit less email spam to wait imo.
[03:36] <LaserJock> and that makes sense if this is a special case
[03:36] <persia> LaserJock: I'd consider dpkg a *very* special case.
[03:36] <ajmitch> there are things that you don't want everyone handlign u-m-s to touch
[03:37] <ajmitch> like the kernel, X, dpkg, etc
[03:37] <LaserJock> well, sure
[03:37] <ajmitch> since I wouldn't trust every sponsor to know the ramifications of a change
[03:37] <ajmitch> and I'd trust myself even less
[03:37] <LaserJock> but then it still seems like we should be going to the maintainers in the first place
[03:38] <LaserJock> it just seems like people have to go through so many layers to get things done :/
[03:38] <persia> LaserJock: Malone autosubscribes anyone who wants to be a bug contact for the package.  If the maintainer likes bugmail, they get subscribed.
[03:38] <LaserJock> persia: of course
[03:38] <LaserJock> my point is, if the maintainer needs to ack it anyway, why wouldn't they upload it too
[03:38] <ajmitch> of course
[03:39] <ajmitch> we *love* layers
[03:39] <LaserJock> hence why we are ogres ;-)
[03:39] <ajmitch> they probably would upload it
[03:39] <ajmitch> or they may not have time
[03:42] <ajmitch> impressive seeing how many bugs motu-swat is subscribed to that are php web apps :)
[03:43] <LaserJock> yeah, who was it, maybe sistpoty, that said we should just remove php from Ubuntu and security would be done :-)
[03:44] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I just grumbled a little bit about php *g*
[04:33] <ScottK> Good evening (here anyway) everyone.
[04:33] <sistpoty> hi ScottK
[04:34] <ScottK> hi sistpoty
[04:34] <ScottK> I think I'm ready this time...
[04:35] <ScottK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4050
[04:39] <persia> ScottK: You'll want the Maintainer to be Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> (bare email addresses are unfriendly).
[04:39] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.  I'll go fix that.  That's what I get for copying direct from the spec without putting my brain in the middle.
[04:41] <LaserJock> persia: I think he can have his address if he wants
[04:41] <persia> ScottK: I should thank you.  Your mention of that yesterday has caused interesting results.
[04:41] <LaserJock> although it'd be fine to put ubuntu-motu too
[04:41] <ScottK> Yeah.
[04:41] <persia> LaserJock: I'd agree to that, but the current value is just the MOTU email address.
[04:42] <LaserJock> persia: that's no good ;-)
[04:42] <ScottK> Changed that here locally.  I'll upload again momentarily.
[04:42] <ScottK> Anything else before I fire off debuild or are you still looking?
[04:43] <persia> ScottK: There's some vim cruft in README.Debian.
[04:44] <ScottK> I got it that way from upstream.  The upstream has /debian in it.  Is that worth increasing the size of the diff for?
[04:44] <ScottK> hi Hobbsee
[04:45] <persia> ScottK: Your changelog says you deleted upstream /debian.  If you changed "deleted" to "modified", it would be fine.
[04:45] <ScottK> Ah.  Good point.
[04:45] <ScottK> I
[04:45] <ScottK> l'll remove the cruft.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> hey ScottK 
[04:46] <ScottK> cruft excised...
[04:47] <persia> ScottK: Is there a difference between INSTALL and README.Debian?  I'm not sure you need both.
[04:48] <ScottK> The differences are small, but real.  The main difference is that the path you put in your Postfix config is different since Debian installs in a different place.
[04:48] <persia> ScottK: Then you need both.  Sorry I missed that.
[04:48] <ScottK> No problem.
[04:48] <ScottK> Appreciate the help.
[04:48] <persia> ScottK: I don't see anything else, but you'll want real reviewers to check it.
[04:49] <ScottK> Thanks.
[04:59] <ScottK> Updated and uploaded: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4052
[04:59] <ScottK> persia: thanks again.
[05:01] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
[05:13] <sistpoty> wow, that's just so cool... executing arbitrary shell commands from the browser
[05:16] <ScottK> Then I hope you were executing the shell commands before you applied the patch...
[05:18] <sistpoty> ScottK: sure... I first test with the old version and then the same with the patched version
[05:18] <sistpoty> however this time I somehow broke s.th. :(
[05:19] <ScottK> :(
[05:28] <LaserJock> cool
[05:28] <LaserJock> ubugtu changed his/her/its name
[05:43] <theCore> LaserJock: I updated squeak-image, would you like to review it?
[05:51] <LaserJock> theCore: sure
[05:52] <theCore> LaserJock: just give it a sec to test it before upload it to REVU 
[05:54] <theCore> ah, a bug 
[05:55] <theCore> it seems I will have to update squeak-vm too
[05:55] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:55] <LaserJock> theCore: where are you getting your packages from?
[05:56] <theCore> apt-get
[05:56] <theCore> do you mean the upstream one?
[05:56] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:56] <theCore> http://ftp.squeak.org/3.9/
[05:57] <LaserJock> theCore: so you kept the packaging the same?
[05:57] <theCore> yep
[05:57] <LaserJock> hmm
[05:57] <LaserJock> I was actually going to replace the whole thing
[05:58] <theCore> do you know that they got packages for Debian?
[05:59] <theCore> http://ftp.squeak.org/debian/dists/etch/main/source/devel/
[06:00] <LaserJock> theCore: that's what I'm talking about
[06:01] <theCore> so, should I merge then?
[06:02] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[06:02] <LaserJock> well, I'm guessing we can grab then directly
[06:02] <LaserJock> I'd have to check
[06:15] <theCore> LaserJock: their packaging is quite different from our
[06:15] <LaserJock> yep
[06:15] <LaserJock> we got ours from another distro
[06:19] <theCore> LaserJock: I think I like their package better
[06:20] <theCore> LaserJock: the big plus is it doesn't create a directory in my home dir 
[06:20] <LaserJock> yeah, that's why I was planning on changing to it :-)
[06:20] <LaserJock> theCore: well, perhaps. I added in the stuff to in ~/
[06:20] <theCore> LaserJock: do you use Squeak?
[06:20] <LaserJock> no
[06:21] <LaserJock> I just got into it one day
[06:21] <theCore> I started to learn Smalltalk today. It's a pretty sweet language 
[06:21] <LaserJock> and worked with upstream for a little bit
[06:22] <crimsun> < DanaG> beryl-manager is 0.1.5+svn20070101-r2202+3v1ubuntu1
[06:22] <crimsun> < crimsun> god that is the ugliest versioning ever.
[06:22] <LaserJock> :-)
[06:24] <LaserJock> theCore: the reason I added a script was because we need a way to run it from the menu
[06:36] <LaserJock> theCore: have you tried those packages Matej Kosik did?
[06:36] <theCore> LaserJock: not yet
[06:36] <theCore> LaserJock: I am still reviewing it
[07:00] <theCore> LaserJock: yep, it works
[07:00] <theCore> LaserJock: but, it will need a little of reworking
[07:01] <theCore> little bit* 
[07:06] <theCore> bed time for me 
[07:22] <Nafallo> morning
[07:39] <keescook> hiya Nafallo 
[07:39] <Nafallo> hi kees :-)
[08:00] <persia> I've been processing merges, but I'm beginning to get the feeling there is a reason there are so many outstanding.  Should some merges not be performed?  I'm especially curious in the cases where MoM reports no problems with the merge.
[08:00] <Nafallo> we have some that have there own packaging in Ubuntu. gajim being one :-)
[08:02] <Hobbsee> persia: ask the person who last did the merge first.  there's usually a reason they havent done it.  and we're waiting on a lot of syncs.  also, main is frozen for herd 1 - dont know how easily universe uploads are getting thru, as they're not automatic, due to forementioned freeze
[08:02] <persia> Nafallo: Well, yes, but for example, adasockets is 1.8.4.7-5 in sid, and 1.8.4.7-4ubuntu1 in feisty.  The most recent Ubuntu upload was a merge, and MoM reports no errors.  It being first in the alphabet, I would expect it to be a popular target.
[08:04] <Hobbsee> persia: i think that came up later
[08:04] <persia> Hobbsee: Uploads aren't getting through, but I'd expect to see merge or sync bugs.  Launchpad is building, and the new versions are visible (just not linked).  I could start chasing last uploaders, but that would considerably slow.
[08:05] <Hobbsee> persia: may be a result of soyuz being broken, or having been broken
[08:05] <Hobbsee> persia: they're usually on irc
[08:06] <persia> Hobbsee: perhaps my first experience chasing tonio_ wasn't a good example.  Thanks.
[08:07] <Hobbsee> persia: true.  he's on less at the moment
[08:08] <persia> Hobbsee: And not responding to email in a hurry :)
[08:08] <Hobbsee> yeah...personal issues
[08:08] <Hobbsee> persia: you can always ask in here if people know abotu the merge's status - people will tend to talk about what they're doing
[08:10] <persia> Hobbsee: You seem good with IRC.  How do I see if a user not in the channel is online?
[08:11] <StevenK> persia: /wii <nick>
[08:11] <persia> StevenK: LaserJock indicated that http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motutodo/universe.html was a good list, but see Hobbsee's comments above.
[08:11] <persia> StevenK: Thanks.
[08:13] <Nafallo> ehh
[08:13] <Nafallo> why do I have a wii that is whois? :-P
[08:13] <StevenK>  /wii gives more information than /whois, and is Freenode-specific
[08:14] <persia> /wii doesn't work for me
[08:14] <persia> whois does fine (if it doesn't find the people I seek)
[08:15] <StevenK> persia: /wii persia works for me
[08:17] <Nafallo> StevenK: ah. so /wii is what /whois is on other nets?
[08:18] <Nafallo> how.. stupid ;-)
[08:19] <StevenK> Nafallo: Yup :-)
[08:23] <persia> gpocentek: I was looking at processing the merge for blogtk.  Do you have any comments or advice before I begin?
[08:29] <Hobbsee> persia: take it
[08:29] <persia> Hobbsee: Um..  the workflow, or the package?
[08:30] <Hobbsee> persia: the people here can tell you if people have particular packages, or if particular people are in control of their own merges
[08:30] <Hobbsee> the package
[08:31] <Hobbsee> persia: basically, avoiding the "i've had to do all this backwork, to make all this stuff work, and someone just yoinks the easy bit" - which is kinda annoying after it happens for the third time or so...
[08:31] <persia> Hobbsee: OK.  Thanks.  On the other hand, it's only 8:30 in France, perhaps I should ask people likely to be active :)
[08:31] <Hobbsee> persia: hehe.  usually, if you havent heard someone who's got attachment with a particular package, ie, has uploaded it multiple times or something....you're probably OK
[08:31] <Hobbsee> or has mentioned it in here
[08:31] <persia> Hobbsee: I understand.  I'll try to avoid that.
[08:32] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:32] <persia> Hobbsee: So if the changelog shows one person doing all the work, or making significant changes, I should make an effort to check when they are likely to be present, but if all uploads are different, it's probably safe just to do it?
[08:33] <Hobbsee> persia: yeah
[08:33] <persia> Hobbsee: Thanks for the detail.  That's definitely a workflow I can follow.
[08:33] <Hobbsee> persia: by now, they usually either 1) dont have time to do it.  or 2) will do it, but have had to make other changes to make that bit work
[08:34] <Hobbsee> persia: ie, contact them.  in the case of 1) feel free to take any and all their merges, unless they ask you not to touch one, (often one deliberately left because it doesnt work).  in the case of 2), respect their wishes
[08:34] <persia> Hobbsee: I've also encountered a case where the Debian and Ubuntu maintainer were the same, and they thought it could sync, but it broke :)
[08:34] <Hobbsee> ie, i'm ignoring ktrack because the tarballs are different, so i'm waiting till the next upstream version ot sync from debian
[08:34] <Hobbsee> ah yep.  fake syncing..
[08:35] <StevenK> Hobbsee: ktrack can be fixed. :-)
[08:37] <StevenK> Ah ha!
[08:41] <StevenK> Hrm, maybe not.
[08:46] <persia> zakame: I was looking at a merge of boa-constructor.  I noticed your bug 75220 for sync, and wanted to check with you before processing the merge.
[08:46] <Ubug2> Malone bug 75220 in boa-constructor "Please sync boa-constructor (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75220
[08:53] <Hobbsee> StevenK: hrm?
[08:54] <Hobbsee> persia: has the sync happened?  not sure if zakame is active - probably safe to take it
[08:55] <StevenK> I bet it hasn't, given the Rejected
[08:55] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Trying to fix a python-xlib bug
[08:55] <persia> Hobbsee: sync rejected: .desktop file not adopted by Debian.  It needs a merge.
[08:56] <persia> Hobbsee: Thanks again for the guidance.
[08:56] <Hobbsee> persia: ah.  merge it, and file a bug in debian about the .desktop, i guess
[08:56] <Hobbsee> if they havent actually taken the bug
[08:57] <Hobbsee> email to the maintainer also seems to work pretty well
[08:57] <persia> Hobbsee: bug exists, but I'll update it with the actual file :)
[08:57] <Hobbsee> persia: ah :)
[09:01] <enyc> meep moop
[09:09] <siretart> persia: I got response from the glibc maintainers in debian, the problem is in oops. I'm on it, see debian bug #406491
[09:09] <Ubug2> Debian bug 406491 in glibc "Build failure of oops 1.5.23.cvs-3" [Unknown,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/406491
[09:11] <persia> siretart: Great.  Let me know if I can be of further help.
[09:12] <Hobbsee> persia: :)
[09:17] <persia> When performing merges, may I also fix the .desktop when it doesn't validate?
[09:17] <Hobbsee> persia: of course.  note it in the changelog though :)
[09:17] <persia> Hobbsee: of course.  My changelogs are growing...
[09:18] <Hobbsee> persia: yay :)
[09:18] <Hobbsee> persia: that means you're doing mroe stuff - which is good ;)
[09:19] <persia> Hobbsee: Well, to fewer packages (volume of work remains about the same).
[09:19] <Hobbsee> persia: you can change that :P
[09:20] <persia> Hobbsee: I need to sleep all the hours I do, and the rest of the time is spent here.  I'm not sure how to raise the volume :(
[09:20] <Hobbsee> persia: hehe, fair enough :)  i get that problme too
[09:24] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:51] <persia> Does anyone know how to convince pysupport *not* to byte-compile things in certain directories?
[09:52] <gpocentek> persia: feel free to grab my merges
[09:52] <persia> gpocentek: Thanks.
[09:54] <persia> man dh?pysupport
[10:01] <siretart> persia: puh. there is quite some more maintenance work left in oops ;) (mostly policy changes, make init script LSB compliant, etc)
[10:02] <persia> siretart: Would you like me to look at that?  I'm presuming you'd prefer this done in the sid chroot, for upload to Debian.
[10:03] <siretart> persia: if you want to look and try it before I upload it to debian, sure!
[10:03] <siretart> at least, I got it lintian clean now! :)
[10:04] <siretart> bah, linda is unhappy :/
[10:05] <persia> siretart: I'm limited to simple functionality testing, but I could do that if it helps.
[10:05] <persia> siretart: Congrats!
[10:06] <Hobbsee> siretart: thump it's maker
[10:07] <siretart> Hobbsee: yes, the problem is that upstream seemed quite dead the last time I looked for them :/
[10:08] <Hobbsee> siretart: ah
[10:08] <Hobbsee> siretart: i meant the maker of linda actually, but that too
[10:09] <siretart> ah, :)
[10:11] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you're in a better position to thump its maker
[10:12] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: true....so's everyone at LCA
[10:12] <Lathiat> ajmitch: are you comign to LCA?
[10:12] <ajmitch> no, I'm not
[10:12] <Lathiat> wimp!
[10:12] <ajmitch> some of us have to work
[10:12] <Lathiat> less ubuntu conference, more LCA :P
[10:12] <Lathiat> who uses ubuntu anyway ;)
[10:12] <ajmitch> not I
[10:12] <ajmitch> I use windows
[10:19] <siretart> persia: http://siretart.tauware.de/upload-queue/ here is my current oops upload - if you want, give me a short works/doesn't work
[10:19] <siretart> (on feisty would be great, since I test on debian/experimental
[10:19] <ajmitch> \sh: you pinged me a couple of days ago?
[10:19] <ajmitch> hello dholbach 
[10:19] <dholbach> good morning
[10:19] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[10:19] <siretart> hey dholbach 
[10:19] <\sh> moins
[10:19] <\sh> ajmitch: jepp...
[10:19] <elkbuntu> Lathiat, mind you, jono is coming, so it'll probably turn into one big jokosher conference
[10:19] <elkbuntu> hi dholbach :)
[10:19] <\sh> ajmitch: zope/plone questions...why depends plone 2.1.2 on zope 2.8 and not on zope 2.9 in dapper?
[10:21] <ajmitch> \sh: dapper questions...
[10:21] <ajmitch> probably because that was what was current & tested back then
[10:21] <\sh> ajmitch: edgy delivers zope2.9 with plone 2.1.x*
[10:22] <ajmitch> and I can't really go & fix up dapper's plone now, can I? :)
[10:23] <\sh> ajmitch: I need to replace an old zope/plone fck server on sles9 with dapper or edgy
[10:23] <ajmitch> and you're not allowed to make trivial packaging changes yourself?
[10:23] <\sh> ajmitch: actually I don't want :) I want standards ;)
[10:23] <ajmitch> you should just be able to change the dzproduct file in zope-cmfplone
[10:24] <ajmitch> well dapper is released, so I can't do much - it's always been a rush to get things done
[10:24] <ajmitch> plus they were synced from debian
[10:24] <\sh> ajmitch: and what about edgy? are the edgy packages depending on 2.9? I could upgrade to edgy ;)
[10:25] <ajmitch> edgy probably does, I can't check
[10:25] <ajmitch> upgrading to edgy just because of that is a bit desperate :)
[10:26] <\sh> it's just a server which is quite useless...but I have to do that..
[10:26] <ajmitch>  Tested with   Zope 2.8, Zope 2.7
[10:27] <ajmitch> the other *major* thing about it, is that zope2.9 was the first to require python >= 2.4
[10:30] <ajmitch> before that, python2.3 was the only officially supported version
[10:35] <siretart> persia: okay, oops works for me so far.
[10:35] <ajmitch> \sh: anything else? :)
[10:36] <persia> siretart: Sorry.  I was pulled away.  It works fine for me as well (on feisty).
[10:37] <siretart> okay, will upload then shortly
[10:42] <Hobbsee> StevenK: @ putting it in the system menu, just ask persia to submit a patch to it
[10:42] <Hobbsee> persia's the expert on desktop files and menu items
[10:42] <persia> StevenK: What about a menu item?  How can I help?
[10:43] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:43] <StevenK> persia: Will you be around in a little while? I don't want to context-switch to another problem just yet.
[10:44] <persia> StevenK: Sure.  With brief interruptions, I should be here for the next 5 hours or so.
[10:44] <StevenK> persia: Cool. Thanks for the offer of help
[10:45] <persia> StevenK: No worries.
[10:49] <persia> I'm looking at Debian bug #399276, in hopes of finding a solution to support the merge of boa-constructor.  Historically, three was a postinst to block compilation of the ZopeLib modules.  Is it acceptable to pass --noscripts to dh_pysupport, and provide manual maintainer scripts, or does this violate the policy?  http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ Doesn't make this clear to me.
[10:49] <Ubug2> Debian bug 399276 in boa-constructor "SyntaxError installing after python transition" [Important,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/399276
[11:48] <\sh> ajmitch: edgies zope gives me errors in events.log ... e.g. Products.ATContentTypes "Import Error: no module named CMFCore"
[11:48] <\sh> but it's in the Products directory of the zope instance
[12:58] <imbrandon> 
[01:08] <persia> Syncs are processing again.  Does that mean the freeze is over?
[01:08] <StevenK> And that the archive admins found some time.
[01:08] <StevenK> Mainly what I said.
[01:08] <Nafallo> yes
[01:09] <Nafallo> herd is out
[01:09] <persia> StevenK: It's the "And" that is especially interesting to me: I need to go check the build and release status for a few things.
[01:14] <persia> Someone with access should modify https://launchpad.net/~motu, such that packages with the maintainer set to Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> list the correct team when inspected in Launchpad (it currently reads MOTU-Media).
[01:26] <Lutin> what's the right way to deal with this kind of bugs ? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-jescs/+bug/77977
[01:26] <Ubug2> Malone bug 77977 in evolution-jescs "[ftbfs]  typo in evolution-jescs-2.8.2/debian/rules" [Undecided,In progress]  
[01:26] <Lutin> assuming it's a fix for edgt
[01:27] <Lutin> edgy*
[01:32] <crimsun> Lutin: first establish that it is in fact a typo. Have you verified using stock edgy evolution-jescs source and an edgy pbuilder/sbuild?
[01:33] <persia> crimsun: Sorry about pulseaudio.  Feel free to ignore my changes as you proceed: I'm looking forward to your improvements.
[01:34] <crimsun> persia: no need to apologise, you did nothing wrong. The note there is simply for information.
[01:35] <crimsun> Lutin: it looks like you could file an SRU for it
[01:35] <crimsun> Lutin: the change is unintrusive and eyeball-able
[01:57] <persia> Would someone be willing to ACK three sync requests?
[02:19] <persia> ScottK: I'm feeling tired earlier than usual today.  If you're still not ready for my help with your menu/.desktop questions, can we look at them tomorrow?
[02:19] <ScottK> I think that was StevenK you meant...
[02:19] <StevenK> persia: Certainly, I was about to head off to bed myself.
[02:20] <persia> ScottK: Sorry - I need to check the backlog, rather than my brain :)
[02:20] <ScottK> But I do aprreciate your help yesterday.
[02:20] <ScottK> Heh.
[02:20] <persia> StevenK: Thanks.
[02:21] <zul> hi
[03:00] <ScottK> If there is anyone around who has time for a REVU, I believe that http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4052 is ready.
[03:06] <geser> ScottK: is there a reason why you modify INSTALL? it doesn't look like it gets installed
[03:06] <ScottK> Good question.
[03:07] <ScottK> I had modified it in a previous rev of the package.  I'm guessing I wasn't as careful in reverting the change as I thought.
[03:08] <ScottK> Urgh.  Thanks.  Will reupload.
[03:13] <geser> ScottK: README.Debian mentions /usr/lib/postfix/policyd-spf-perl but it gets installed in /usr/sbin
[03:17] <ScottK> Thanks.  
[03:18] <ScottK> I just found the same error in the man page.  I'll fix them both.
[03:20] <geser> ScottK: a really minor bug: capitalize the D in README.Debian in the description of the package
[03:21] <ScottK> Thanks.  I'll get it while I'm in that file.  Fixing the man page right now.
[03:27] <ScottK> That's all fixed up.  Anything else?
[03:28] <geser> I didn't find anything else
[03:28] <ScottK> Thanks.
[03:28] <ScottK> Update uploaded....
[03:35] <ScottK> Thanks again geser.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4054
[03:38] <ScottK> Anyone else?
[03:40] <geser> ScottK: the diff.gz still modifying INSTALL. Didn't you revert it?
[03:41] <ScottK> There are days I really hate computers.  Stand by.
[03:42] <_MMA_> Sad news: http://ardour.org/
[03:45] <FactTech> Question: How does one go about adding a new program/package to the repository, or update an existing one?
[03:55] <ScottK> FactTech: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
[03:56] <FactTech> ScottK Much obliged, I'll look there.
[03:57] <ScottK> Here we go again... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4055  INSTALL is definitely reverted this time.
[04:10] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:12] <gpocentek> hello bddebian 
[04:12] <bddebian> Heya gpocentek
[04:16] <ScottK> Heya bbdebian
[04:19] <geser> ScottK: the last upload looks ok but I'm not quite sure about the copyright file
[04:20] <ScottK> What about it?
[04:20] <ScottK> I tried to emulate the one in the Debian New Maintainer's Guide very closely.
[04:21] <ScottK> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-copyright
[04:21] <ScottK> Did I miss something?
[04:22] <geser> README mentions als you at (C) so you should add yourself also to copyright
[04:22] <ScottK> Ah.
[04:23] <ScottK> That would be something I missed.
[04:28] <ScottK> On it's way...
[04:29] <geser> ScottK: some packages have a additional paragraph about the GPL (incl the address of FSF) (see the copyright file for lsb-base)
[04:29] <geser> but I'm not sure if this is mandatory
[04:29] <geser> you might want to ask someone more experienced
[04:30] <ScottK> The sample didn't have it.  I wonder if that's related to the FSF address change, i.e. if the LICENSE file has the old address, you mention the new address in the copyright file.  I know lintian will throw a warning if your LICENSE file has the old address.
[04:31] <ScottK> Thanks again for looking at the package so carefully.
[04:31] <ScottK> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-copyright
[04:32] <ScottK> Nevermind.  Wrong url...
[04:32] <ScottK> It's uploaded again: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4056
[04:34] <geser> since you are setting Maintainer to MOTU I assume it would be ok if you set yourself as Original-Maintainer
[04:34] <geser> besides this the package looks ok to me
[04:39] <ScottK> Thanks.  I should have never been in the Maintainer spot to begin with since the package isn't in Debian.
[04:40] <ScottK> Now that I'm the upstream (as of a couple of days ago) once I get through here, I'm going to work on doing a new upstream that straightens all this out.
[04:40] <ScottK> Once again, appreciate you looking.
[04:42] <geser> but you are maintaining the package in Ubuntu, so it would be ok to set Maintainer to yourself
[04:45] <ScottK> I guess.  I don't mind it being the MOTUs.  It'll still show up as a package I uploaded so it's easy enough to keep track of on LP.  Eventually this will also be in Debian and I won't be the Debian maintainer (am not a DD and am extremely unlikely to become one), so I expect this will be less confusing in the long run.
[04:46] <ScottK> Thanks again.
[04:56] <Toadstool> g'morning everybody
[04:58] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[04:59] <Toadstool> hey bddebian 
[05:06] <stdin> Hi, I hope this is the right place to ask this but, anyone know why mplayer/mencoder is in multiverse not universe ?
[05:11] <Toadstool> stdin: 'cause of patent issues on codecs afaik
[05:11] <stdin> ins't the app itself gpl tho? or are the codecs included in the package?
[05:13] <azeem> Debian ships it in main now, Ubuntu hasn't revisit its decision yet I guess
[05:14] <Toadstool> stdin: http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2005/02/msg00175.html <-- a good summary
[05:14] <stdin> thanks, I'll give it a read :)
[05:32] <siretart> azeem: debian ships mplayer without mencoder, ubuntu's mplayer includes mencoder
[05:33] <stdin> why is mencoder in a separate package then?
[05:51] <geser> stdin: mencoder is a seperate binary package but it is build from the same source package as mplayer
[05:54] <stdin> geser: yes, but you can have mplayer in main, but mencoder in multiverse, can't you?
[05:56] <geser> no, because than you also need to have the source in main (incl mencoder source)
[05:56] <stdin> hmm, yeah
[05:58] <Lutin> crimsun: for evolution-jesc: I downloaded the source, checked that it actually ftbfs
[05:58] <siretart> it would already be an great improvement, if mplayer could/would enter universe
[06:00] <Lutin> crimsun: I added a 'ls' in the rules to make sure the folder wa wrong, and it was
[06:47] <medoc92> newbie question: what distribution name should I use in the debian/changelog for uploading to REVU?
[06:48] <Laser_away> medoc92: feisty
[06:50] <medoc92> Laser_away: I tried this and I got a reject message saying I had no right to upload to feisty
[06:51] <Adri2000> medoc92: do you upload to revu and not to ubuntu? are you in the revu keyring? (have you joined the universe contributors team on Launchpad?)
[06:54] <medoc92> Adri2000: I am in the keyring and contributor team as far as I know. But I may be trying to upload to the bad host, checking, thank you.
[06:54] <Adri2000> dput revu *.changes
[07:10] <medoc92> Adri2000: was definitely trying to upload to ubuntu. But now it tells me that it cant upload to revu because one of the files already exists (recoll_1.7.4-0ubuntu1.dsc). But the package still doesn't appear on the web page.
[07:15] <zul> dput -f
[07:16] <medoc92> zul: same result. Isnt -f for overriding local log? I'm getting an ftp error: Error '553 Could not create file.'
[07:18] <siretart> medoc92: I just cleaned revu incoming for you
[07:18] <medoc92> Thanks, trying again.
[07:52] <medoc92> siretart: thanks, it worked.
[08:35] <tsmithe> hi all! so who's up for - guess what! - revu'age? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4049 or http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3892 should anyone be so kind
[08:36] <Adri2000> SRU guys: I have #62346 for you :)
[08:43] <cypherbios> Hello there! Anyone else here agree that this package is ready? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4015
[09:16] <LaserJock> \o/
[09:17] <LaserJock> do people really use sparcs for desktops?
[09:17] <Adri2000> LaserJock: you're a superstar!
[09:18] <LaserJock> me?!?
[09:18] <LaserJock> I don't think so
[09:18] <Adri2000> yes, I receive emails from you via ubuntu-devel-announce :
[09:18] <LaserJock> umm
[09:18] <LaserJock> they're probably all wrong too
[09:19] <LaserJock> I finally got the lab's color laserjet working after like 3 months
[09:19] <LaserJock> I'm so happy
[09:20] <tsmithe> yay! now tell me about syncs :P
[09:20] <LaserJock> what do you want to know?
[09:20] <tsmithe> all
[09:20] <ivoks> grab a chair
[09:20] <LaserJock> you request them, and then at somepoint ubuntu-archive processes them
[09:21] <LaserJock> the end
[09:21] <tsmithe> ok
[09:21] <tsmithe> ivoks, that wasn't too bad...  can i go back to standing up now?
[09:21] <ivoks> :)
[09:21] <LaserJock> well
[09:21] <LaserJock> do you want more detail?
[09:21] <tsmithe> yes ;)
[09:21] <Adri2000> if you are not a MOTU, don't subscribe u-a, subscribe u-u-s
[09:22] <LaserJock> tsmithe: basically, look at the Syncs section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[09:22] <LaserJock> and as Adri2000 said
[09:22] <tsmithe> k thanks
[09:22] <LaserJock> tsmithe: make sure to follow it closely or crimsun will get out his whip
[09:22] <LaserJock> :-)
[09:23] <tsmithe> LaserJock, i will ... /me doesn't want to suffer crimsun's whip
[09:24] <siretart> bug #62346
[09:24] <Ubug2> Malone bug 62346 in obconf "[SRU]  Missing libobrender.so.1 -> unable to launch obconf" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62346
[09:24] <Nafallo> oh. crimsun has whips to? ;-)
[09:27] <tsmithe> obviously...
[09:27] <LaserJock> ScottK: you still around?
[09:30] <LaserJock> bddebian: gotta keep the archive gods appeased
[09:30] <bddebian> Aye :-)
[09:33] <neutrinomass> There are a few -dbg packages in feisty's universe that fail because of exact deps ... should they be removed? (from what I understand they are obsolete because of apport)
[09:33] <neutrinomass> oh, and hi everyone :)
[09:33] <Nafallo> neutrinomass: hi :-). I think a cleaner approach would be to tell the buildds to throw them away.
[09:34] <neutrinomass> Nafallo: erm, how do I do that ? (subscribe -archive ? )
[09:36] <Nafallo> neutrinomass: talk to pitti and infinity :-)
[09:37] <neutrinomass> Nafallo: Ok, I'll make a bug report out of them and subscribe them - thanks !
[09:37] <Nafallo> neutrinomass: np :-)
[10:32] <tsmithe> so anyone available to review my alsa-firmware and related packages? we at UbuntuStudio would really like to see them in
[10:34] <Nafallo> tsmithe: crimsun should have special interest :-)
[10:37] <tsmithe> crimsun, you available?
[10:37] <tsmithe> Nafallo, he's often busy, but i'd always be glad of anyone's help
[10:37] <Nafallo> tsmithe: yes he is :-/
[10:38] <tsmithe> Nafallo, you gonna help out then? :P
[10:38] <Nafallo> tsmithe: busy and running wine IRL :-P
[10:39] <tsmithe> tsk tsk
[10:42] <ScottK> LaserJock: I'm around now
[10:43] <LaserJock> ScottK: I was just going to say, you don't have to be a DD or MOTU to maintain your package in Debian or Ubuntu
[10:43] <ScottK> Ah.
[10:44] <LaserJock> and there's really no reason you can't be in Maintainer:
[10:44] <LaserJock> the spec is too address Debian packages
[10:44] <ScottK> I expect to be doing the actual maintenance work regardless of who is in the maintainer field
[10:44] <Q-FUNK> I _does_ make it easier, though, if someone doesn't constantly have to wait for a sponsor to upload.
[10:44] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: sure, but you *can* do it
[10:44] <Q-FUNK> but true, one can simply routinely submit patches and ping the maintainer to merge them.
[10:45] <Q-FUNK> or maintain their own package and wait for sponsors.
[10:45] <ScottK> I'm more about getting the package into Ubuntu than I am about getting my name in lights.
[10:45] <Q-FUNK> I guess for that, MOTU formalized the process of peer reviews and sponsoring.  
[10:45] <LaserJock> sure
[10:46] <ScottK> Regardless of maintainer or not, I still need to wait for a MOTU to REVU anyway.
[10:46] <Q-FUNK> at Debian, the mentoring is much more lax.
[10:46] <Q-FUNK> I keep on cursing at how many days it's gonna take for an upload to take place, whenever my AM is unavailable. :(
[10:46] <LaserJock> ScottK: that's fine, I just wanted to say that you have that option if you want. It's always nice to be able to see who I can go to for issues with the package
[10:47] <ScottK> Sure.  My assumption is that being in the changelog will do it for that.
[10:47] <ScottK> Thanks.
[10:49] <ScottK> Speaking of getting my packagin into Ubuntu, LaserJock, would you be up for REVUing it? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4056
[10:50] <tsmithe> sorry - connection died. did anyone offer to review my packages? ;)
[10:51] <ScottK> No.  Sorry.
[10:51] <tsmithe> awh
[10:51] <tsmithe> ScottK, does that mean you volunteer?
[10:52] <ScottK> I wouldn't do you much good.  I'm pretty new around here.
[10:52] <tsmithe> these would be my second and third packages
[10:52] <tsmithe> out of 7 i've done
[10:53] <tsmithe> and the UbuntuStudio folks would really appreciate if anyone would. :P
[10:53] <ScottK> You've done more than me.  So far I've done upstream updates for 2.  This is my first new one (I hope) to get accepted.
[10:54] <tsmithe> it's in feisty universe! yay!
[11:33] <keescook> crimsun: did I miss something?  what's happening with acroread in feisty?
[11:39] <crimsun> keescook: I presume it's going through NEW
[11:40] <crimsun> keescook: although I do find it alarming that it no longer appears to be a valid source package according to ``apt-cache madison'' ...
[11:40] <keescook> yeah... I wanted to do the amd64 thingy to it... but it vanished.  :P
[11:41] <crimsun> err
[11:41] <crimsun> "PendingRemoval"
[11:41] <crimsun> well, the source no longer exists period.
[11:43] <bddebian> Later gang
[11:43] <philluk86> hi does anyone know the policy for packaging python applications, specifically pygtk ones?
[11:43] <ScottK> Did you look at the Debian Python Policy?
[11:45] <ScottK> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
[11:47] <philluk86> yes, there isnt much specifically on python programs. Install the modules into /usr/share/modulename. I dont know where I am allowed to put glade files, can I put them under modulename/ui ?
[11:49] <LaserJock> philluk86: you can put the glade files pretty much wherever you want in /usr/share/<packagname>
[11:50] <LaserJock> and where you install the .py files depends on what kind of app and wheither you want to use python-support of python-central (I recommend the later, but it's up to you)
[11:50] <somerville32> Whats the difference between the two?
[11:51] <philluk86> well atm im using a standard makefile which will precompile the py files and then copy to the destdir
[11:56] <somerville32> philluk86, What are you packaging?
[11:56] <LaserJock> philluk86: don't precompile them
[11:57] <LaserJock> just install the .py files
[12:02] <LaserJock> oh, man, that really stinks (WRT acroread)
[12:02] <somerville32> philluk86, You'll need to patch the makefile to not to compile them and ot make sure the .py files are installed.
[12:03] <somerville32> philluk86, python-support/python-central will compile them for you if you install them to the correct location
[12:03] <somerville32> If you install them to a weird location, you'll need to specify it manually
[12:05] <philluk86> ok.. so whats the best way to tell people about my app?
[12:05] <LaserJock> what do you mean?
[12:06] <crimsun> LaserJock: yeah, it sucks (Ubuntu doesn't have it), but it doesn't suck (less work for us; I can still pbuild modified debian-multimedia.org's)
[12:06] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, it's just that it's like the 2nd app I install on every Ubuntu box
[12:06] <crimsun> and less bug mail for me Wins.
[12:07] <LaserJock> yeah, for sure it's easier maintainence wise
[12:07] <LaserJock> but people will complain profusely
[12:07] <crimsun> let 'em.
[12:07] <crimsun> I'll happily post my diff.gz and dsc
[12:08] <philluk86> i meant if i want people to try my app should i post about it on the forums?
[12:09] <LaserJock> philluk86: yeah, having a website and the app in Universe will help as well
[12:09] <LaserJock> philluk86: maybe blog about it somewhere
[12:09] <LaserJock> things like that
[12:11] <crimsun> wow, oldschool rocking the house with sru and swat
[12:12] <LaserJock> mhm
[12:13] <crimsun> stefan, reinhard, and I account for some ridiculous percent of motu email ;p
[12:13] <LaserJock> 99.9%