[12:17] <kwwii> w00t
[12:17] <kwwii> well, the installation went well
[12:17] <kwwii> I am amazed
[12:20] <kwwii> wow, and the function keys work
[12:48] <Riddell> kwwii: what's that?
[12:49] <Hobbsee> Riddell!!!
[12:49] <Riddell> morning Hobbsee
[12:49] <Hobbsee> heya
[12:50] <Riddell> well I was waiting for the announcement on u-d-a for herd 2 but that doesn't seem to be happening
[12:50] <Hobbsee> Riddell: well, it exists, because i proof read it.
[12:53] <Riddell> well kubuntu.org points to the Herd2 page now
[12:53] <mhb> Hi Riddell, Hobbsee
[12:53] <mhb> Riddell: thanks
[12:53] <Hobbsee> hey mhb :)
[12:54] <mhb> Riddell: it seems screenshots are available too
[12:54] <mhb> http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Kubuntu%207.04%20Alpha%202
[12:57] <kwwii> Riddell: dude, herd2 works great
[12:58] <kwwii> other than the funky installation stuff
[12:58] <kwwii> Riddell: the partioner scared the shit out of me
[12:58] <kwwii> but in the end it works great
[12:58] <Hobbsee> kwwii: why so?
[12:58] <kwwii> Hobbsee: because the first page was empty for about 10 minutes
[12:58] <Hobbsee> ah
[12:58] <kwwii> and then qparted popped up about 100x100
[12:59] <kwwii> and I had no idea what to do with it
[12:59] <kwwii> only after clicking on next did I see the actual partitions to install on
[12:59] <kwwii> very confusing
[12:59] <kwwii> and I kinda know what I am doing in that sense
[12:59] <kwwii> anyway
[01:00] <kwwii> in the end, other than that, I am impressed
[01:00] <kwwii> powermanager works now, as do the special keys to change the monitor brightness, etc
[01:00] <kwwii> much better than edgy
[01:02] <Hobbsee> hehe, nice :)
[01:03] <kwwii> well, let me see if I can get my wlan working :p
[01:03] <kwwii> I am building the latest inkscape now, it seem to build fine
[01:03] <Zerlinna> night all
[01:03] <kwwii> night Zerlinna
[01:04] <Zerlinna> :) bye kwwii
[01:04] <mhb> gute Nacht Zerlinna
[01:04] <Zerlinna> mhb: ;) ... und weg
[01:05] <kwwii> if nothing else, I'l bug someone in oslo about getting the wlan working :p
[01:05] <Hobbsee> kwwii: what's wrong with the wlan?
[01:05] <kwwii> that is the best reason to attend such meetings if you ask me ;-)
[01:06] <kwwii> Hobbsee: this is a ppc machine..gotta cut the openfirmware from the cd, etc.
[01:06] <Hobbsee> ahh
[01:06] <kwwii> it worked out of the box on the laptop I bought my wife for christmas
[01:06] <kwwii> I even thought about taking that and buying her a new one
[01:06] <pat__> hey
[01:06] <kwwii> but I think I will buy myself an x-60
[01:06] <bobesponja> hey
[01:07] <Hobbsee> hey bobesponja :)
[01:07] <bobesponja> hey Hobbsee
[01:07] <kwwii> dude, you do not know how much I love sponge bob
[01:07] <bobesponja> kde mounts my ipod as read-only and I can't transfer my mp3s on it, that's weird cause it used to work before
[01:09] <bobesponja> kwwii: any idea what's wrong?
[01:10] <kwwii> bobesponja: no idea, I'll try it with my ipod tomorrow :-)
[01:10] <Hobbsee> bobesponja: is it mounted as root?
[01:10] <kwwii> once I find the cable
[01:11] <bobesponja> Hobbsee: no it's mounted as regular user
[01:11] <Hobbsee> hrm
[01:11] <bobesponja> Hobbsee: using the kautomount or whatever it's called
[01:13] <kwwii> anyone here know where I put that stupid cable?
[01:13] <mhb> kwwii: everyone in germany loves that
[01:14] <bobesponja>  /dev/sdb3 on /media/ipod type hfsplus (rw,nosuid,nodev,uid=1000,gid=1000) that's what mount says
[01:15] <Hobbsee> hrm
[01:15] <Hobbsee> dunno on that one
[01:15] <kwwii> hehe, I found it!
[01:15] <kwwii> amazing
[01:16] <kwwii> man, this evening is going pretty well
[01:17] <kwwii> hrm
[01:17] <kwwii> doesn't work here either
[01:17] <bobesponja> kwwii: do you use edgy with all the latest updates?
[01:17] <kwwii> apparently one needs to add a precommand or such
[01:18] <kwwii> bobesponja: on edgy it worked great for me
[01:18] <kwwii> bobesponja: but on feisty it does not
[01:18] <bobesponja> kwwii: here too but since the latest update it doesn't and I'm still on edgy
[01:18] <kwwii> probably the same problem then
[01:18] <bobesponja> kwwii: what precommand did you use?
[01:18] <kwwii> bobesponja: none
[01:19] <kwwii> on my old edgy system it needs none
[01:19] <bobesponja> the latest update was on the kernel I think
[01:20] <kwwii> well, it does not work here, even with the suggested precommand
[01:21] <kwwii> luckily I still have osx
[01:21] <kwwii> :p
[01:21] <bobesponja> kwwii: what is that suggested pre command?
[01:21] <kwwii> mount %d
[01:21] <kwwii> at least, it says that in the pop-up
[01:22] <kwwii> but even when I try to simply mount it as device it does not work
[01:22] <kwwii> something is wrong on the kernel level, I guess
[01:22] <kwwii> normally it finds it as external drive
[01:23] <kwwii> yepp, on my old edgy system it works fine
[01:24] <bobesponja> kwwii: but is it updated?
[01:25] <kwwii> hrm it says read-only although it mounts it
[01:25] <kwwii> funky
[01:25] <kwwii> yeah, it is updated
[01:25] <kwwii> on feisty it does not work at all
[01:25] <kwwii> not even to mount it
[01:28] <kwwii> well, I can get it working by mounting the device through /media/
[01:28] <kwwii> on edgy that is
[01:28] <kwwii> on feisty it does not work at all
[01:29] <bobesponja> but on edgy can yo uwrite on it ?
[01:30] <kwwii> nope
[01:30] <kwwii> not even as root
[01:31] <kwwii> just tried in the terminal as root
[01:31] <kwwii> fscked up
[01:31] <kwwii> on suse it works great :p
[01:31] <kwwii> then again, I know the guy who takes care of that personally
[01:31] <kwwii> ;-)
[01:32] <bobesponja> kwwii: on suse?
[01:32] <kwwii> always good to have lots of friends who are developers
[01:32] <kwwii> bobesponja: yepp
[01:32] <bobesponja> ok, I'm only on kubuntu :/
[01:32] <kwwii> yeah, in the meantime I only run kubuntu too, but I have one system to test suse
[01:33] <kwwii> and I must say that ipods always work because of Norm (Henne Vogelsang)
[01:33] <kwwii> great guy, but I still won't use suse
[01:33] <kwwii> :p
[01:33] <bobesponja> yep, but I think there's a general problem with mount, not with ipods
[01:34] <bobesponja> anywho, that sucks :/
[01:34] <manchicken> That's okay, SuSE will be in violation of the GPLv3 when it's released anyway.
[01:34] <manchicken> ^_^
[01:34] <kwwii> well, chmod does not work eithUnnamed
[01:34] <kwwii> erm
[01:34] <kwwii> either
[01:35] <kwwii> funky
[01:35] <kwwii> no idea
[01:35] <kwwii> time to reboot into osx where ipods and wlan works :p
[01:35] <kwwii> and the battery more than 1.5 hour lasts
[01:35] <kwwii> funky how bad kubuntu is with the battery
[01:36] <kwwii> I mean, in osx I get 4-5 hours out of it
[01:36] <kwwii> and in linux 1.5
[01:36] <kwwii> horrible, really
[01:36] <kwwii> and I could cook an egg on it
[01:36] <kwwii> my hands start to sweat
[01:37] <bobesponja> kwwii: linux 1.5?
[01:37] <kwwii> one and half hours
[01:38] <kwwii> and it says that my cpu is only running at 833MHz
[01:38] <kwwii> which cannot be right
[01:38] <mhb> kwwii: I have the same problem
[01:38] <kwwii> and/or the powermanager info is incorrect
[01:38] <bobesponja> mhb: does yo ipod work on it?
[01:38] <mhb> kwwii: well, not with the same machine, but it also drains life quickly
[01:39] <mhb> bobesponja: a CD player is all I own, sorry
[01:39] <bobesponja> mhb: but yo udo have a mac though :)
[01:39] <bobesponja> right?
[01:40] <kwwii> I only have macs :-)
[01:40] <kwwii> so I am screwed
[01:40] <kwwii> I guess it is my fault for choosing this job :p
[01:41] <bobesponja> kwwii: what's your job?
[01:41] <kwwii> artist
[01:41] <mhb> bobesponja: not even that ...
[01:42] <bobesponja> kwwii: ever heard of the gimp? :)
[01:42] <kwwii> if I did not have a mac, I would loose lots of jobs and/or have to buy lots of new software which does not work so well and always work around using MS crap
[01:42] <mhb> good night everyone
[01:42] <kwwii> bobesponja: sure, and I use it a lot but that is not realistic in the proffesional art world
[01:42] <kwwii> great stuff, but not ready for the real world yet
[01:43] <kwwii> just try and make decent cmyk stuff with gimp
[01:43] <kwwii> or decent 3d rendering with blender
[01:43] <kwwii> or decent vector art with inkscape
[01:43] <kwwii> it is all the same
[01:43] <bobesponja> kwwii: the elephant movie looked pretty to me
[01:43] <kwwii> it comes close and in some cases I can use it, but mainly I need real software
[01:44] <kwwii> bobesponja: naaaa, they spent months on making those few minutes
[01:44] <kwwii> sorry, but that is not realistic
[01:44] <bobesponja> kwwii: that's because they were few people working on it
[01:44] <kwwii> I could show you things I made that are as good as that which only took me a few weeks
[01:45] <kwwii> bobesponja: I did stuff like that alone within weeks
[01:45] <kwwii> I mean, I know some of the people who did that, and I am impressed that they got that far
[01:45] <kwwii> but it is not ready for the real world yet
[01:46] <kwwii> I do a lot of video editing...what does one use in linux? nothing is as good as the hardware stuff available for other systems
[01:46] <bobesponja> wow then if you can do movies like the elephant in few weeks, why don't you make an entire movie like this? that would be like a new pixar or something in less than a year
[01:46] <kwwii> I have a media100 system (used for making quite a few films) and it is way better than anything under linux
[01:47] <kwwii> bobesponja: I have made two music videos and quite a few commerials for siemens with that sytem
[01:47] <kwwii> not mention quite a few other smaller companies
[01:47] <kwwii> the hard part is getting into the business
[01:48] <kwwii> no, a few minutes is one thing, and *really* hard
[01:48] <kwwii> making a whole film is something completely different
[01:48] <kwwii> and making it really proffesional is another step above that
[01:49] <kwwii> trust me, if you have never worked in the field it all looks a lot easier than you would guess
[01:50] <bobesponja> kwwii: do you do artwork for kubuntu?
[01:50] <kwwii> bobesponja: yepp
[01:50] <bobesponja> kwwii: I know it's hard, that's why I'm surprised yo ucould do the same as the elephant in few weeks
[01:51] <bobesponja> but I think they worked on new features in the process, that's why it took so much time plus it's very polished
[01:51] <kwwii> well, with propriatary systems you buy plugins (or write them yourself and sell them as we did) and it is a lot easier
[01:51] <kwwii> yeah, that is exactly the point
[01:52] <kwwii> they had to develop the software for more than half of what they did
[01:52] <kwwii> making things move like real bodies, etc
[01:52] <kwwii> not to mention that the renderer itself is simply not the same quality as proprietary sytems
[01:52] <kwwii> that is why people pay money for thingts
[01:53] <kwwii> things move so fast in that world that you either keep up, push things further or fall behind
[01:53] <kwwii> it really costs a lot of money
[01:53] <kwwii> no matter what
[01:53] <bobesponja> apache is free and it's better than anything out there, so you don't _allways_ have to pay money for things
[01:53] <kwwii> and remeber that they got a lot of money to do what they did
[01:53] <kwwii> it is not like they did it for free
[01:54] <kwwii> yeah, but that kind of stuff is different than multimedia stuff
[01:54] <kwwii> trust me, try it and find out
[01:57] <bobesponja> it's not different,  they just need to catch up a little, they'll probably get there in a couple or year
[01:57] <bobesponja> of year
[01:59] <kwwii> maybe in several years but by then the expensive software will be way beyond that
[02:00] <kwwii> of course, there are parts of it that is very usable but there are effects that are created new for every new project
[02:00] <kwwii> you cannot imagine how much money is put into such stuff
[02:00] <kwwii> that is why I got out of the business even though I was paying lots of money for software and trying to write certain parts myself
[02:01] <bobesponja> yes but they can't beat a community of thousands of developpers, just like microsoft couldn't do better than firefox with ie7 even though it has billions
[02:02] <kwwii> sure, maybe in 20 years we will have that kind of thing
[02:02] <kwwii> but for now, that world is not the world of most open source devs
[02:02] <bobesponja> lol 20 years? yo must be new to FOSS
[02:02] <kwwii> although they could rock in it and make killer shit, it is not *that* hard
[02:02] <kwwii> in the end it is replicating physics or faking it
[02:02] <kwwii> but there is not enough interest in it
[02:03] <kwwii> instead we have 5 text editors
[02:03] <kwwii> I mean, why doesn't linux have really good vector editor yet?
[02:03] <kwwii> that would be the first thing you need to make good 3d graphic s
[02:03] <kwwii> but even that is missing
[02:04] <bobesponja> inkscape is half way there already
[02:04] <kwwii> yeah, exactly, it is halfway there
[02:04] <kwwii> and how well can I use a program that is halfway there as artists
[02:04] <kwwii> well, I get 50% of what I want out of it
[02:05] <kwwii> if I really know what I am doing, I get 70%
[02:05] <kwwii> believe me, I try to use inkscape as much as possible
[02:05] <kwwii> but I have a list of things that are missing since years
[02:05] <kwwii> and the never get done
[02:06] <kwwii> because nobody cares
[02:06] <bobesponja> well if you can do 70% with a new project like inkscape I guess in a couple of years it should be 100% :)
[02:06] <kwwii> devs think they are unimportant
[02:06] <bobesponja> well, devs work for free so...
[02:06] <kwwii> they would rather tell me how amazing it as and how if I worked around that stuff and accepted that it is not possible I could make good work
[02:07] <kwwii> yepp, true, and I accept that
[02:07] <kwwii> but still
[02:07] <kwwii> reality is reality
[02:07] <kwwii> and I need to earn money
[02:07] <kwwii> heck, just try to make anything in cmyk in linux
[02:07] <bobesponja> krita
[02:07] <kwwii> forget it
[02:07] <kwwii> you cannot proof it
[02:07] <kwwii> so you make some file but you do not know how it really looks
[02:08] <kwwii> and that does not go over well with the company who is paying you money
[02:08] <bobesponja> krita does manage cmyk
[02:08] <kwwii> when they pay money for the print stuff and it looks different than the stuff on the screen
[02:08] <kwwii> no, krita includes that colorscpace
[02:08] <kwwii> tha is all
[02:08] <kwwii> that
[02:09] <kwwii> it cannot show me how it will look when printed
[02:09] <kwwii> every printer is different
[02:09] <kwwii> and has a profile
[02:09] <kwwii> I need that info to know how it will really look in the end
[02:09] <kwwii> honestly, it is like me saying "coding is just a text file"
[02:09] <bobesponja> there are some open printers drivers
[02:10] <kwwii> why can't I just write a simple text file saying what I need
[02:10] <kwwii> yeah, there are a few
[02:10] <kwwii> and they do not even work that well
[02:10] <kwwii> nor do most of the printers use them
[02:10] <kwwii> and what about fonst?
[02:10] <kwwii> fonst
[02:10] <kwwii> ahhh
[02:10] <kwwii> fonts
[02:10] <kwwii> lets use open source fonts!
[02:11] <kwwii> hahaha
[02:11] <kwwii> forget it
[02:11] <kwwii> the spacing it wrong
[02:11] <kwwii> the font hints are crap
[02:11] <kwwii> or missing
[02:11] <kwwii> forget it
[02:11] <bobesponja> they look good to me
[02:11] <kwwii> yeah
[02:11] <bobesponja> and there are plenty of them
[02:11] <kwwii> sure
[02:11] <kwwii> try and make money with taht
[02:12] <kwwii> believe me
[02:12] <kwwii> I have had this conversation with sooooo many people
[02:12] <kwwii> it is as naive as me saying a source file is a text file
[02:12] <bobesponja> hmm, well it is a text file
[02:13] <kwwii> sorry, but developers then to think things are sooo simple becuase they can do what they do
[02:13] <manchicken> kwwii: So join the project.
[02:14] <kwwii> honestly, if you were in the business you would see why things are as they are, anything else is naive
[02:14] <kwwii> manchicken: which project?
[02:14] <manchicken> kwwii: And coding IS just working with a text file ^_^
[02:14] <manchicken> inkscape
[02:14] <kwwii> and how much time do I have as artist to do that kind of thing
[02:14] <bobesponja> yep, a source file is a textfile
[02:15] <kwwii> manchicken: I have entered important bugs in inkscape years ago, but they ignore them
[02:15] <manchicken> kwwii: No less than I have as a programmer.
[02:15] <manchicken> kwwii: So help.
[02:15] <kwwii> because they mistakingly think they know better
[02:15] <manchicken> That's what I do.
[02:15] <kwwii> it is sad
[02:15] <manchicken> So make some free software fonts.
[02:15] <kwwii> I have soo much good input
[02:15] <kwwii> and they ignore it
[02:15] <manchicken> But no help
[02:15] <kwwii> but luckily the koffice people are listening
[02:15] <kwwii> the new koffice stuff should be pretty good
[02:16] <kwwii> at least in the vector tools
[02:16] <manchicken> You've gotta be willing to do more than complain and suggest.  At the very least join in on the QA stuff.
[02:16] <kwwii> dude, making fonts is something that people do for a fulltime job
[02:16] <bobesponja> manchicken: he does  artwork for kubuntu though
[02:16] <manchicken> That's good ^_^
[02:16] <kwwii> I could not do that without years of experience
[02:17] <manchicken> kwwii: Nonsense.
[02:17] <kwwii> no, not nonsense
[02:17] <kwwii> try it
[02:17] <Hobbsee> hehe.  i think manchicken just suffered from an episode of "foot in mouth" disease there
[02:17] <manchicken> kwwii: I have.
[02:17] <kwwii> and try to earn money with it
[02:17] <kwwii> honestly
[02:17] <kwwii> it is easy to make one that looks good to you
[02:17] <kwwii> but make one that is really good
[02:17] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Naw, I just see people complaining about things that they're not willing to fix, and have to point out the obvious solution. ^_^
[02:18] <kwwii> nothing in the opensource world comes close to arial or any of the other
[02:18] <kwwii> s
[02:18] <manchicken> kwwii: I earn money with Free software every day.
[02:18] <bobesponja> manchicken: what's your job?
[02:18] <kwwii> but not with fonts
[02:18] <manchicken> I'm a programmer.
[02:18] <manchicken> kwwii: How hard is it to make a font?
[02:18] <bobesponja> manchicken: I know :) but who do yo work for?
[02:18] <kwwii> lool
[02:18] <kwwii> lol
[02:18] <kwwii> rotfl
[02:18] <kwwii> exactly
[02:19] <kwwii> how hard is it
[02:19] <kwwii> and how would you know?
[02:19] <manchicken> bobesponja: I work for an advertising company.  We provide online advertising services.
[02:19] <manchicken> kwwii: Can't be that hard.
[02:19] <kwwii> and how many open source fonts does your company use?
[02:19] <kwwii> manchicken: WRONG
[02:19] <bobesponja> kwwii: dejavu looks better tan arial to me
[02:20] <kwwii> yeah, to the blind eye it is great
[02:20] <manchicken> kwwii: Software services don't really make much use of fonts.
[02:20] <kwwii> and for online purposes some of them are ok
[02:20] <crimsun> dude, typography is friggin hard
[02:20] <kwwii> people earn millions making fonts
[02:20] <manchicken> So?
[02:21] <kwwii> it is naivite to think that everything is simple
[02:21] <kwwii> yepp
[02:21] <kwwii> honestly
[02:21] <manchicken> Simple?  No.
[02:21] <manchicken> Possible to help, yes.
[02:22] <bobesponja> I guess I must be blind then 8)
[02:22] <kwwii> perhaps one day things will be different but to ask people who need to pay their rent and feed their kids to use such stuff is silliness
[02:22] <kwwii> anyway
[02:22] <kwwii> time for bed
[02:23] <manchicken> kwwii: It must be nice to complain about something you're unwilling to help.
[02:23] <kwwii> see you all tomorrow
[02:23] <kwwii> manchicken: dude, I do help, all the time
[02:23] <kwwii> why do you think I am here?
[02:23] <kwwii> I mean, I have only done open source stuff for 9 years now
[02:23] <crimsun> I think he has a "right" to complain as the kubuntu artwork lead.
[02:23] <kwwii> but that does not change the facts all the sudden
[02:23] <bobesponja> kwwii: using propriatary software?
[02:23] <manchicken> Then why not help out with fonts then?
[02:24] <kwwii> bobesponja: for certain things, like printing, yes
[02:24] <kwwii> manchicken: why don't you work as an architect?
[02:24] <manchicken> kwwii: I don't want to, and I have no desire to.
[02:24] <kwwii> it is a specialty
[02:24] <manchicken> Naw.
[02:24] <kwwii> and I have no desire to work in that specialty
[02:25] <kwwii> oh, yes it is
[02:25] <kwwii> and if you say different then you prove your ignorance
[02:25] <manchicken> That's the problem I have with traditional thinking like that.  what says I can't learn to do architecture?
[02:25] <kwwii> ever heard of font hinting?
[02:25] <crimsun> he's not saying you can't learn
[02:25] <manchicken> Nope.  I don't do the font thing.  But if I had a problem, I could learn.
[02:25] <kwwii> honestly, it is really hard
[02:25] <manchicken> Have you tried?
[02:25] <manchicken> I think you could do well if you tried.
[02:26] <kwwii> and I am not about to start working on something that I simply do not have enough time to get really good at
[02:26] <kwwii> yes, I have treid
[02:26] <kwwii> tried
[02:26] <kwwii> I made the suse font
[02:26] <kwwii> out of several other fonts
[02:26] <manchicken> Then you *ARE* helping ^_^
[02:26] <kwwii> and it is still shit, when it comes to printing
[02:26] <manchicken> And you should have said that before.
[02:26] <manchicken> :)
[02:26] <kwwii> :p
[02:26] <crimsun> he did
[02:26] <manchicken> No, he said he did artwork ;)
[02:27] <manchicken> (and HE didn't say it, someone else did)
[02:27] <manchicken> :P
[02:27] <bobesponja> i did :)
[02:27] <manchicken> I don't know art from fart, but that never stopped me from trying.
[02:28] <bobesponja> art from fart? let me note that down :)
[02:28] <manchicken> bobesponja: It's a good one.  Use it.
[02:28] <manchicken> Back in a bit.
[02:29] <kwwii> oh mean
[02:29] <kwwii> mean
[02:29] <kwwii> ahhh
[02:29] <kwwii> man
[02:29] <kwwii> bobesponja: have a bit of respect for things you know nothing about
[02:30] <kwwii> I try as hard as I can to do everything with OSS
[02:30] <kwwii> and to further that
[02:30] <kwwii> but reality is reality
[02:30] <kwwii> sorry if you don't like it
[02:30] <kwwii> but that is life
[02:30] <kwwii> and with that, I am out
[02:30] <bobesponja> kwwii: I think you're mistaking me with manchicken I didn't say nothing for a while
[02:30] <bobesponja> :)
[02:30] <bobesponja> good night
[02:30] <kwwii> perhaps
[02:30] <kwwii> anyway
[02:30] <Hobbsee> kwwii: you do a good job ;)
[02:31] <kwwii> I am tired and probably missed a lot
[02:31] <kwwii> Hobbsee: thanks :-)
[02:31] <kwwii> see you all tomorrow
[02:31] <bobesponja> kwwii: I'm sure you do
[02:31] <bobesponja> a good job
[02:32] <kwwii> yeah, reading back I see that I wanted to respond to manchicken
[02:32] <kwwii> sorry
[02:32] <bobesponja> no problem
[02:32] <kwwii> one day I am going to go into a devel channel and give devs nothing but shit for never making a decent vector editor
[02:33] <kwwii> I mean, how hard can it be? :-)
[02:33] <Hobbsee> kwwii: heh.  you'll get banned, probably :P
[02:33] <bobesponja> it's easy, that's why we're already half way there with inkscape and koffice
[02:33] <kwwii> hey, I have a new icon I need a program for
[02:33] <bobesponja> :p
[02:33] <kwwii> lol
[02:34] <kwwii> actually, I have big hopes for the new koffice stuff
[02:34] <bobesponja> kwwii: what part of it does vercot? karbon?
[02:34] <kwwii> they really have listened to what we want and asked question after question
[02:34] <bobesponja> vector
[02:35] <kwwii> bobesponja: nope, it is a kpart for everything in koffice
[02:35] <kwwii> so it is in all of koffice
[02:35] <kwwii> which ROCKS
[02:35] <bobesponja> i see
[02:35] <bobesponja> it's that flake
[02:35] <kwwii> exactly
[02:35] <kwwii> not a kpart
[02:35] <kwwii> sorry
[02:35] <kwwii> stupid artists
[02:36] <kwwii> but anyway, they have done everything we wanted (after I bitched for years)
[02:36] <kwwii> I am amazed at the work they have done
[02:36] <bobesponja> but when you say vector, do you mean svg?
[02:37] <bobesponja> I thought flake was only about inserting shapes into documents
[02:37] <bobesponja> not a svg thing
[02:37] <kwwii> no, I mean the tools used to make vectors
[02:37] <kwwii> the export functions are something else
[02:37] <kwwii> and I hope that we will have a decent vector export as well
[02:37] <kwwii> for karbon
[02:37] <kwwii> until now nobody wants to work on karbon
[02:38] <kwwii> in fact, I can imagine that it willl die
[02:38] <kwwii> since nobody wants to work on it
[02:38] <kwwii> but then perhaps manchicken has time
[02:38] <kwwii> :p
[02:38] <kwwii> I mean, how hard can it be :-)
[02:38] <kwwii> adobe earned millions with illustraotr
[02:38] <kwwii> illustrator
[02:39] <kwwii> perhaps we can gain millions of users with karbon
[02:39] <kwwii> the interface is amazing anyway
[02:39] <kwwii> but the usage has been shit
[02:39] <bobesponja> he don't need it and don't complain about it so he won't work on it as it seems that he only work on projects he needs liek all of us
[02:39] <kwwii> and the functionalitxy was never on fifth as good as the interface
[02:39] <kwwii> anyway
[02:39] <kwwii> time for bed
[02:40] <kwwii> sleep well
[02:40] <kwwii> see you all tomorrow
[02:40] <bobesponja> nighty night
[02:43] <manchicken|away> later
[04:17] <DaSkreech> Who Would I speak to get the database of hardware?
[04:18] <ash211> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/ ?
[04:19] <Hobbsee> okay, feisty's printing sucks!
[04:20] <ash211> DaSkreech: try https://launchpad.net/~ogra
[04:20] <ash211> he maintains hwdb-client
[04:21] <ash211> and is its bugcontact
[04:21] <DaSkreech> Well I was thining of the data for knoware client
[04:21] <DaSkreech>  Though I should probably get some more Knoware stuff down first :(
[04:22] <ash211> i have no idea then
[04:23] <DaSkreech> ash211: Actually you
[04:23] <DaSkreech> 've been a great help
[04:23] <ash211> anytime
[05:48] <manchicken> Why can't I figure out where it's updating this bloody UI?!
[06:28] <manchicken> I can't find a corresponding insertItem() call to the packages in adept that would populate the list of packages.
[09:28] <mhb> good morning
[12:58] <Lure> Riddell: when trying to build pykdextensions (to switch pykde3/guidance to 2.5), I get this strange error: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/1542/
[12:58] <Lure> Riddell: it looks like "g++ -pthread" is added to command line twice, but have no clue from where this could come :-(
[01:27] <Riddell>  /win 88
[01:28] <fdoving> 88 is alot.
[01:29] <Riddell> it's only half way
[01:30] <Riddell> Lure: dunno I'm afraid, sime would be the expert there
[01:30] <Riddell> Lure: but pykde3 isn't 2.5 yet so I'd wait for that
[01:32] <elcuco> does anyone know who handles the power managment application i see on my systray?
[01:32] <elcuco> kde? ubuntu? where shuold i open bugs?
[01:32] <Riddell> guidance is the source package
[01:32] <Riddell> although bugs might be the fault of hal
[01:34] <elcuco> it's just gui problems
[01:34] <elcuco> the application tells me "you have 5 minutes of battery, i am hibernating"
[01:35] <elcuco> it would be nice if i get a warning 10 minutes before, "we are going down in 5 minutes, be prepared"
[01:35] <elcuco> (happened to me yesterday, this just stinks when you are writing something and suddenly the computer shuts down)
[01:35] <Riddell> yep
[01:39] <elcuco> so, on kde's bugzilla? or kubuntu luanchpad?
[01:40] <fdoving> ping lure about it.
[01:41] <Riddell> elcuco: launchpad
[01:41] <Riddell> actually the source package is kde-guidance
[01:45] <elcuco> he, thats your package no?
[01:52] <Riddell> not especially
[01:53] <elcuco> crap my english is rubbish (bug 79225)
[01:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79225 in Ubuntu "kde-guidance should announce it's hibernating" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79225
[01:55] <fdoving> confirmed.
[01:55] <elcuco> fdoving: you is the kick as master :)
[01:57] <Lure> Riddell: pykde3 could work with 2.5, we just need pykdeextensions to work properly ;-)
[01:58] <Lure> elcuco: it should have low battery announcement, but it does not say what it will do
[01:58] <Lure> elcuco: will verify
[04:06] <Lure> Riddell: interesting - pykdeextensions as in the archive does not build - same error
[06:57] <jjesse> anything i can to troubleshoot why my laptop keeps freezing/stop responding on edgy?
[08:27] <bddebian> Heya
[08:35] <ryanakca> hey bddebian
[08:35] <bddebian> Hi ryanakca
[08:36] <ryanakca> probably my monitor :)
[08:43] <Lure> Riddell, imbrandon (or any other core-dev): can you upload http://lure.lu.funpic.de/kubuntu/feisty/py2.5/py-kde3.debdiff
[08:52] <fdoving> jjesse: i had that problem on edgy, it was the bcm43xx wlan driver.
[09:00] <jjesse> fdoving: i am not using the bcm43xx driver that i know of
[09:00] <jjesse> easiest way to check?
[09:01] <fdoving> jjesse: lsmod|grep bcm
[09:02] <jjesse> nope not using it
[09:02] <fdoving> ok. that was my $0.2
[09:03] <fdoving> tv bbl.
[09:03] <jjesse> thansk :)
[09:08] <wgw> hi
[09:08] <wgw> I had heard that the Kubuntu project was short of graphics designers?
[09:12] <kwwii> wgw: definitely
[09:12] <kwwii> wgw: I have been doing quite a bit of work on the artwork for the last two releases
[09:14] <wgw> I'm a designer (among other things), primarily from the branding sidde
[09:14] <wgw> but I'm interested in getting into interaction design and doing GPL and BSD licensed design for FOSS projects
[09:14] <wgw> so if you'd like a hand, I might be willing to help out
[09:14] <kwwii> wgw: sounds great!
[09:15] <wgw> one question though, does Shuttleworth control the Kubuntu artwork?
[09:15] <kwwii> lol
[09:15] <wgw> because I don't want to wind up like the designers who were working on Ubuntu 6
[09:15] <kwwii> well, I was the "artist in chief" for kubuntu last time around, and he actually stayed out of it completely
[09:16] <kwwii> so, the answer is no
[09:16] <kwwii> ubuntu is, in a way, his baby ;-)
[09:16] <kwwii> we have much free-er reign over kubuntu
[09:16] <wgw> do you work for Canonical?
[09:18] <kwwii> wgw: good question...my answer would be "today, no...next week, yes"
[09:18] <wgw> ok
[09:18] <wgw> well it sounds interesting
[09:18] <kwwii> I had two short term contracts for both dapper and edgy
[09:19] <wgw> I also like the sort of Africanness of Ubuntu, having done some consulting work in Ghana
[09:19] <kwwii> and I'll be working for them again, although I am not 100% certain exactly what my job will entail yet
[09:19] <wgw> which is of course quite different from South Africa
[09:19] <wgw> although a lot of the businesses seem to be run by South Africans
[09:19] <kwwii> wgw: I really love the colors and feeling in the ubuntu stuff
[09:19] <wgw> yes, I love the color palette
[09:19] <kwwii> very warm and friendly
[09:19] <wgw> it was really daring to go for the brown
[09:19] <wgw> and it makes it look unique
[09:19] <wgw> rather than like a Windows clone
[09:20] <kwwii> definitely
[09:20] <kwwii> have you seen edgy?
[09:20] <wgw> I haven't used Kubuntu yet, I guess I'd better reinstall Ubuntu into a virtual machine and then install the Kubuntu and Xubuntu packages
[09:20] <wgw> not yet
[09:20] <kwwii> I kinda went in the direction of purple
[09:21] <wgw> purple can be interesting, although you'll want to avoid looking too much like Gentoo
[09:21] <kwwii> although the colors used are not really purple, people tend to think they are
[09:21] <kwwii> yeah, that is true (and you are the first one to mention that)
[09:21] <kwwii> very good point though
[09:22] <wgw> what I'm really hoping to do in terms of interaction design is to execute an idea I have for a new type of program launching/file browsing/desktop type of affair
[09:22] <wgw> it will be a GPL-licensed UI that will essentially be installed as a mod of GNOME or KDE
[09:22] <wgw> (rather than as a completely seperate desktop environment)
[09:22] <kwwii> wow, that sounds killer
[09:23] <kwwii> sounds like the stuff I have heard many large companies asking for
[09:23] <wgw> as I see it, a really good UI is needed to help Linux compete with Mac OS X, and to a lesser extent, Vista, although I see Mac OS X being increasingly the biggest competitor of FOSS operating systems
[09:23] <kwwii> yeah, me too (I only have macs at home)
[09:23] <wgw> because people are already recognizing that they should get off Windows, and at the moment, the Apple, with its really sharp UI, offers the most compelling platform for them to do it with
[09:23] <kwwii> I see mac going in the direction of smaller devices with simplified interfaces to "just get the job done"
[09:24] <wgw> right
[09:24] <kwwii> in the end, you have to ask yourself what people really use their computers for
[09:24] <wgw> I also use a Mac, although in terms of hardware I'm an IBM fanboy
[09:24] <kwwii> ;-)
[09:24] <wgw> I use IBM/Lenovo peripherals with all my hardware, even if its not IBM
[09:24] <kwwii> actually I am thinking about getting an x-60
[09:24] <wgw> my Mac uses a 17" ThinkVision monitor on a radial arm, for instance
[09:24] <kwwii> just so that things simply work after installation
[09:24] <wgw> I use the X41T, its quite nice
[09:25] <wgw> I'm about to buy another ThinkPad laptop, and later in the year I'm hoping to add a ThinkCentre desktop and maybe an IBM Intellistation
[09:25] <wgw> depending on how well my business does this year, I would love to drop $20k on a high end Intellistation for graphics work
[09:26] <kwwii> hehe, and I am giving out all my money on a new camera :p
[09:27] <wgw> my plan regarding the GUI is to build up experience first doing smaller projects for distros etc, and in the process hopefully meet some developers who can code the thing when I'm ready to do it
[09:28] <wgw> initially as a plug in for GNOME, since all the really hot distros seem to prefer it these days
[09:28] <kwwii> well, a few of the big ones do seem to love gnome
[09:29] <kwwii> although many more smaller distris use kde
[09:29] <wgw> I think they both suck, to be honest, but at least we have them
[09:29] <kwwii> lol
[09:29] <kwwii> rotfl
[09:29] <kwwii> as an artist it is hard to use only linux
[09:29] <wgw> I especially hate the way they render type
[09:30] <kwwii> but if you are going to work on it, you have to use it too
[09:30] <kwwii> yeah, that is one of my biggest complaints
[09:30] <wgw> I seriously prefer Windows with no anti-aliasing to Linux in terms of type display
[09:30] <wgw> I was able to get Sun Microsystems Solaris to display type correctly in its GNOME implementation, however
[09:30] <wgw> by turning hinting completely off
[09:31] <wgw> and in PC-BSD (which I'm running now) it occasionally works quite well, although at other times it will break completely and you'll get some really crappy effects
[09:31] <kwwii> I guess that is due to the lack of a good font
[09:31] <wgw> no, I've installed "good fonts" and it still looks like garbage
[09:31] <kwwii> and/or good hinting software
[09:31] <wgw> the kerning pairs are wrong
[09:31] <wgw> and the letterforms are sort of distorted
[09:32] <wgw> anyway, if you'd like I can send you an e-mail with my contact details
[09:32] <kwwii> I would love that
[09:32] <kwwii> kwwii at bootsplash dot org
[09:32] <wgw> or however you want to proceed so that I can begin my volunteering
[09:32] <wgw> ok
[09:32] <kwwii> I am in chat pretty much every day
[09:32] <wgw> perfectg
[09:33] <wgw> I'm going to send you an e-mail, and then I've got to sign off, but I'll probably check in here at some point tomorrow
[09:33] <kwwii> great, nice to meet you ;-)
[09:33] <wgw> you too, take care
[09:33] <wgw> bye
[09:33] <kwwii> bye
[09:36] <tackat> hi
[09:36] <tackat> can anybody tell me how to resolve this issue:
[09:36] <tackat> *** YOU'RE USING autoheader (GNU Autoconf) 2.61.
[09:36] <tackat> *** KDE requires autoconf 2.53 or newer
[09:37] <tackat> I tried commenting out the buggy autoconf recognition in admin/cvs.sh but that only triggers another issue ...
[09:38] <tackat> *** Creating Makefile templates
[09:38] <tackat> /usr/bin/autoconf: unrecognized option `--trace=_LT_AC_TAGCONFIG:$f:$l::$n::${::}%'
[10:25] <manchicken> Bears won.
[10:29] <Riddell> tackat: try http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/autoconf2.60.diff
[10:40] <kwwii> well, my computer booted feisty herd2 a few times and now it oops on boot
[10:54] <nixternal> http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=16942
[10:55] <nixternal> ^^ for anyone who hasn't seen it, reference the comments section
[10:55] <nixternal> someone references a plastik theme and thinks microsoft had something to do with it, pretty scarey
[10:57] <kwwii> lol
[10:57] <kwwii> stupid crap
[10:57] <nixternal> hehe
[10:57] <kwwii> no worries
[10:58] <nixternal> every now and then though you can get some decent feedback from the comments, unless of course they come from the uneducated
[10:58] <nixternal> what color are we looking at for feisty? any ideas yet?
[10:59] <kwwii> no idea
[11:07] <fdoving> nixternal: i belive the only microsoft-ish thing in that screenshot is the font.
[11:36] <manchicken> green!!!
[11:36] <manchicken> Because when I think feisty, I think green ;)
[11:37] <kwwii> oh dude, I did green for sooooo long
[11:37] <manchicken> *whiney* but it's my favorite color!
[11:38] <manchicken> (I really don't care)
[11:38] <manchicken> (I set my own colors)
[11:38] <manchicken> We could use to have more default color sets.
[11:38] <manchicken> I should submit my current color theme.
[11:38] <manchicken> ^_^
[11:39] <kwwii> hehe, yeah
[11:39] <kwwii> you can do artwork too!
[11:39] <manchicken> I can *try* to do artwork.
[11:39] <manchicken> But I will most likely fail ^_^
[11:39] <manchicken> But that won't stop me from trying.
[11:40] <kwwii> ;-)
[11:44] <Tm_T> manchicken: I will stop you...
[11:45] <kwwii> time for bed
[11:45] <manchicken> Ooh.
[11:45] <kwwii> night all