[12:44] <dsas> Riddell: Could you tell me how many people are subscribed to the ubuntu-uk list? We're trying to think of ways to increase the number of active particpants, so the number may be useful...or let me know of another list admin I can bug :)
[12:48] <Riddell> dsas: 341
[12:48] <dsas> Riddell: Wow. Didn't realise it was that high. Thanks a lot! :)
[01:30] <bobesponja> hey all
[01:31] <bobesponja> I just did an update on edgy, and now my ipod is only mounted as read-only
[01:31] <bobesponja> not even as root
[01:31] <bobesponja> and I'm not the only one
[01:34] <dsas> bobesponja: Has there been a bug report filed?
[01:35] <bobesponja> dsas: no idea
[01:40] <dsas> bobesponja: Any idea what packages have been updated? Was it an update released today? do you have the edgy-proposed repository enabled?
[01:40] <bobesponja> dsas: I have a clean install, didn't add any other repository
[01:41] <somerville32> Hobbsee, ping
[02:02] <Hobbsee> somerville32: pong
[02:02] <Hobbsee> somerville32: contentless ping warning
[02:03] <somerville32> Hobbsee, Can you take a look at this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/78841
[02:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78841 in Ubuntu "System crashes if disconnected from network" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[02:03] <somerville32> And do you know anyone who is good with IPT crack? :)
[02:04] <Hobbsee> somerville32: right.  looked.  and?
[02:04] <Hobbsee> no
[02:05] <Hobbsee> somerville32: could be a kernel thing - that's where i'd guess
[02:06] <somerville32> Try - I'm rather disturbed by it. :(
[02:06] <somerville32> s/Try/Yeah
[10:59] <TuxCrafter> Hi guy's
[10:59] <TuxCrafter> I have been testing feisty
[11:00] <TuxCrafter> and I have some small comments: first good job it installed ok under vmware and did beheave as aspected (unlike the 3 other distro's i have tested this week (zenwalk, dreamlinux, debian stable, debian unstable)
[11:02] <TuxCrafter> issue 1: The menu element create folder has a to big icon image
[11:02] <TuxCrafter> not the one predicted by the gnome standard
[11:02] <TuxCrafter> i believe that was 16x16
[11:02] <Mithrandir> TuxCrafter: please file bugs in the bug tracker.
[11:03] <TuxCrafter> I dont now if it is a bug
[11:03] <Mithrandir> then ask about it in the question tracker?
[11:03] <TuxCrafter> It could be a new usability feature 
[11:03] <TuxCrafter> I have one more thing :-D
[11:04] <Treenaks> TuxCrafter: just file it as a bug. if it's not a bug, it'll get closed...
[11:05] <TuxCrafter> If there is a new feature introduced like the new GNOME Control Center. Don't remove the old way of the settings menu
[11:06] <TuxCrafter> just some small comments, keep up the good work! 
[11:07] <mdke> that's the best change so far this release, the old menu was hideous
[11:09] <TuxCrafter> You can have it both 
[11:10] <TuxCrafter> and just call it Control Center instead of GNOME Control Center
[11:11] <mdke> I filed a bug about that yesterday
[11:11] <mdke> feel free to confirm it
[11:11] <mdke> but no, you can't have both, it would be too confusing
[11:12] <mdke> bug 79164
[11:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79164 in control-center "More user-friendly menu entry" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79164
[11:13] <TuxCrafter> If you want to change the screen resolution for example, now you have to press a lot more mouse clicks to get there
[11:13] <TuxCrafter> I don't say it is bad hell no
[11:14] <TuxCrafter> but you could just put the old menu beneath it
[11:15] <mdke> there is probably a gconf key or something to use the old style. both at once would be really confusing, imo. And having a coherent preferences dialogue is one of the biggest steps ahead Gnome has made in this release cycle, I think
[11:18] <TuxCrafter> Ok, i can see the points
[11:18] <TuxCrafter> I will comfirm the name bug
[11:23] <Amaranth> there is no gconf key
[11:23] <Amaranth> the settings.menu file isn't even shipped by gnome-menus anymore
[11:24] <mdke> ah
[11:24] <mdke> Amaranth: do you know if the category list is ours, or upstreams? It would be nice to get rid of the "Other" category
[11:24] <Amaranth> TuxCrafter: can you explain "<TuxCrafter> issue 1: The menu element create folder has a to big icon image"?
[11:24] <Amaranth> mdke: it's based on the categories set in the .desktop files
[11:25] <TuxCrafter> The Main menu editor should indeed be under Look and Feels
[11:25] <Amaranth> mdke: alacarte, for example, has DesktopSettings in it's categories in gnome svn so it doesn't go into "Other" anymore
[11:25] <mdke> where does it go?
[11:26] <Amaranth> i think Look & Feel
[11:26] <mdke> we need to do something like that for all of the "Other" chaps
[11:27] <Amaranth> yeah, DesktopSettings makes the icon go in Look & Feel
[11:27] <Amaranth> and the categories are defined upstream
[11:28] <mdke> ok. Does that mean it's a bit late to do anything about them?
[11:28] <Amaranth> oh, settings.menu is shipped in gnome-menus, dang
[11:28] <Amaranth> oh, settings.menu just has the control center in it now
[11:29] <Amaranth> mdke: you can define the categories by modifying /etc/xdg/menus/preferences.menu
[11:29] <mdke> I'll suggest that mpt has a hack at those categories, maybe he can come up with something
[11:30] <Amaranth> i think just getting Other items sorted properly will fix it all
[11:30] <TuxCrafter> question: does ubuntu have a new policy about the kernel versions used? It now says 2.6.20-5-generic
[11:30] <mdke> yes, and maybe "System" :)
[11:30] <Amaranth> although things like Network Tools should be in Network and Internet
[11:30] <TuxCrafter> www.kernel.org
[11:31] <TuxCrafter> Ubuntu made a big jump then form kernel
[11:31] <TuxCrafter> is this correct?
[11:31] <Amaranth> TuxCrafter: I don't understand what you're saying
[11:32] <TuxCrafter> uname -r
[11:32] <Amaranth> what about it?
[11:32] <mdke> jump? we've got the latest one
[11:33] <TuxCrafter> nice, in the past ubuntu never used the latest one but always a few steps behind. therefor the question about the new kernel policy ?
[11:33] <Amaranth> TuxCrafter: In the past whatever kernel was the latest when development started was used
[11:34] <mdke> we stop updating programs at a certain point in the release cycle, any later releases don't get updated
[11:34] <TuxCrafter> weird I believe the version of edgy was tree version behind
[11:34] <TuxCrafter> but I like it!
[11:35] <Amaranth> edgy was 2 versions behind
[11:35] <Amaranth> edgy has 2.6.17, 2.6.19 came out right around when edgy was released
[11:35] <Seveas> later
[11:35] <TuxCrafter> with this kernel It will at-leased boot. I have a via epia en12000 and the edgy kernel does not work
[11:36] <Seveas> and feisty will have .20 because of paravirt-ops and other nicenesses
[11:36] <Amaranth> kvm + paravirt would be nice
[11:36] <Amaranth> but that's 2.6.21 stuff
[11:42] <stdin> kvm is in 2.6.20
[11:43] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: BenC is talking about backporting some of the 2.6.21 bits.
[11:44] <Amaranth> cool
[11:44] <Amaranth> stdin: this stuff still exists in patch form
[11:44] <TuxCrafter> my system froze
[11:44] <TuxCrafter> did i miss some response?
[11:45] <Amaranth> stdin: it's an addon to kvm to do paravirtualization (sort of like Xen) using some of the Intel VT extensions to do the work
[11:46] <stdin> ahh, nice :)
[11:46] <Amaranth> I/O is like 5000% faster than regular virtualization with kvm
[11:47] <stdin> I'm having a small problem with 2.6.20, well, not so much a problem, as an annoyance 
[11:47] <stdin> my /dev/hda is now /dev/sda 
[11:47] <Mithrandir> that's intentional
[11:47] <TuxCrafter> guestion: how do i debug total system freezes
[11:47] <TuxCrafter> can I see any logs?
[11:47] <mdke> yay, ubuntu-desktop is working again
[11:48] <Amaranth> mdke: that was a quick transition
[11:48] <TuxCrafter> or is there a tool that i can test irq test with
[11:48] <stdin> Mithrandir: can you tell my why, or point me to a link explaining? :)
[11:49] <Mithrandir> stdin: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/libata-for-all-ata-disks
[11:49] <stdin> thanks :)
[11:51] <TuxCrafter> were should I post a bug for feisty
[11:51] <TuxCrafter> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu ?
[11:52] <mdke> yes
[11:52] <doko> Mithrandir: ctypes should not be built for 2.5, it's included in the standard library
[11:58] <Mithrandir> doko: bah, ok, sorry.  Something or another here depended on it and it wasn't upgraded properly.
[11:58] <doko> Mithrandir: I'll look at it tomorrow
[11:58] <Mithrandir> doko: and your xen upload seems to have exposed some bug in soyuz; it has never had builds scheduled.
[11:58] <Mithrandir> doko: please file a removal request too.
[11:58] <doko> Mithrandir:  for xen-3.0?
[11:59] <TuxCrafter> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/79200
[11:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79200 in Ubuntu "new folder menu icon item is too big not following the gnome specs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[11:59] <TuxCrafter> this ok\?
[12:00] <TuxCrafter> Ubugtu: you are fast :-D
[12:00] <Mithrandir> doko: yeah
[12:19] <TuxCrafter> I have to go now, thanks for the help and the info bye
[01:02] <fabbione> Mithrandir, cjwatson: you want to look at #79107 and #79109. I still need to confirm them tho
[02:02] <megatill> hi
[02:03] <megatill> hab keinen zugriff die festplatte bzw. kann sie nicht aktivieren udn kein ubuntu installieren, kann mir jemand sagen was ich machen kann?
[02:09] <ivoks> you can try in english on #ubuntu
[02:09] <bhale> or #ubuntu-de
[02:09] <ivoks> or german in #ubuntu-de
[02:29] <Enola_Gay> hi all
[02:34] <Enola_Gay> The kernel frequency governors have a huge bug in all kernel versions. They only put frequency to maximum on user cpu usage not on system. If you transfer something to usb you have 100% cpu usage but the cpu has still the lowest frequency. Could please someone fix this. I don't understand why now other one has made a bug report or has fixed it.#
[02:34] <mdke> Enola_Gay: please make a bug report yourself if someone hasn't already
[02:35] <Enola_Gay> mdke: Ok, but I think it will be ignored.
[02:35] <Treenaks> Enola_Gay: what makes you think that?
[02:38] <mdke> Enola_Gay: you're more likely to be ignored posting off topic here on a Sunday
[02:39] <Enola_Gay> Treenaks: Experience ;)
[02:39] <mdke> for bugs, you must use the bug tracker
[02:39] <Enola_Gay> mdke: Bugs of Ubuntu are offtopic?
[02:39] <Treenaks> Enola_Gay: no. but reporting bugs is
[02:39] <Enola_Gay> Ok, it seems to be a general kernel bug.
[02:40] <Ng_> Enola_Gay: in that case registering it upstream may be an idea too
[02:40] <Enola_Gay> I am going to report it.
[02:40] <Enola_Gay> I think there have to be a reason for it because it happens since I am useing cpu scaling on linux.
[02:41] <Enola_Gay> I just wanted to know the reason :)
[02:41] <Treenaks> Enola_Gay: file the bug already
[02:48] <Enola_Gay> Treenaks: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/79232
[02:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79232 in linux-meta "kernel does not scale cpu on system usage (only on user)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[03:33] <doko> Mithrandir: please requeue libhdate, opencv, hocr (should build with the updated swig)
[03:36] <Megatill> german channel? ubuntu-de?
[03:37] <Mithrandir> doko: given-back
[03:58] <Lathiat> 
[04:09] <enrico> apparently yesterday's edgy update broke nautilus and logging in just have a bug reporting tool opening and getting stuck on 'collecting info from the system'
[04:10] <enrico> however the computer is some tousands km away from me and I can't ssh into it, so I can't give more insight
[04:13] <mdke> enrico: you should contact the technical board and sfllaw about something like that
[04:14] <bhale> you shouldnt contact the technical board with conjecture about a bug and no details
[04:14] <bhale> if you can gather some and get a detailed bug report filed, it is worth poking sfllaw 
[04:16] <mdke> well, sounded like a serious regression to me, obviously if it's "conjecture", then no
[04:16] <Lure> doko: pykdeextensions as in archive does not buld anymore - I would like to get it and python-kde3 in resonable state so that we can fix kde-guidance for python 2.5
[04:17] <doko> Lure: sure, fix it ;)
[04:17] <Lure> doko: not sure if in my power ;-) first time hacking there... ;-)
[04:25] <sfllaw> enrico: Ping?
[04:25] <sfllaw> enrico: Was this from edgy-updates or edgy-proposed?
[04:26] <sfllaw> enrico: Also, when was the lsat time you did an update?
[05:27] <enrico> sfllaw: update yesterday, only from edgy updates
[05:28] <enrico> sfllaw: but that is my conjecture: ignore me if you don't see screams from other people as well
[05:28] <enrico> sfllaw: I'll have no access to that machine for another 12 days anyway
[05:31] <BenC> Mithrandir, Aramanth: I have a kvm + paravirt host/guest running on a Core2Duo right now
[05:31] <BenC> I think kvm+paravirt will be in stock kernels on the next upload
[05:31] <Amaranth> BenC: ooh
[05:32] <Amaranth> BenC: have my babies
[05:32] <BenC> stock-ubuntu I mean
[05:32] <Amaranth> BenC: sound a lot louder now? :)
[05:32] <BenC> If Xen's domU code (xen core + paravirt) wasn't so damn huge, I'd include that too
[05:32] <BenC> but it's like 480k patch
[05:32] <Amaranth> heh
[05:32] <BenC> Amaranth: sound is great right now
[05:33] <Amaranth> awesome
[05:33] <BenC> Only problem with kvm right now is that it doesn't support real-mode 32-bit
[05:33] <BenC> so booting the livecd is broken because the bootsplash is real-mode 32-bit
[05:33] <Amaranth> yeah, can't boot ubuntu isos on it
[05:34] <BenC> you have to boot the alternate CD
[05:34] <BenC> alternate and server works
[05:34] <Amaranth> alternative bombed on me too last time i tried
[05:34] <Amaranth> i ended up installing etch to test it out
[05:34] <BenC> hmm, maybe it's because I used dapper alternate...I thought that edgy would be the same
[05:34] <Amaranth> i used dapper too
[05:35] <BenC> I've downloaded the Intel VT docs, and got some tips from kvm-devel, so I'm going to work on real-mode 32-bit in my spare (HAHAHA) time
[05:35] <kylem> you're nuts, chief :)
[05:36] <bSON> hi
[05:37] <BenC> kylem: I've never been accused of sanity :)
[05:37] <kylem> BenC, have you been able to test it with svm?
[05:37] <BenC> Hmm...I wonder if my AMD64 chips has that
[05:38] <BenC> do you remember the svm cpu flag?
[05:38] <BenC> is it svd?
[05:38] <Amaranth> BenC: i think it has to be am2
[05:38] <Amaranth> or whatever that new socket is
[05:38] <BenC> Ok
[05:38] <zul> BenC: im officially the sane one now
[05:39] <BenC> zul: You work on xen, you lost all claims to sanity a long time ago
[05:39] <Amaranth> doesn't xen actually sit under the host linux?
[05:39] <kylem> BenC, i think it's "svm" :P
[05:39] <kylem>                 /* AMD-defined (#2) */
[05:39] <kylem>                 "lahf_lm", "cmp_legacy", "svm", NULL, "cr8legacy", NULL, NULL, NULL,
[05:41] <BenC> Nope, my amd64 is crap :)
[05:41] <kylem> same here.
[05:41] <kylem> i need to upgrade my windows box soon anyway.
[05:42] <BenC> Odd thing is, I had to upgrade my BIOS on the Supermicro Xeon box so kvm-intel would work
[05:42] <BenC> the BIOS reported the VT was enabled, but it didn't really set the enable bit
[05:42] <kylem> cute.
[05:43] <BenC> those whacky BIOS writers
[05:43] <BenC> I know they did it just for me, because I'd get the joke
[05:44] <maswan> BenC: over the last 3 clusters we've bought, all have had that behaviour wrt ECC
[05:45] <BenC> maswan: I my need a reminder to context that correctly :)
[05:45] <maswan> BenC: reporting it to be enabled when you switch it on, but in reality it is still turned off
[05:45] <BenC> ah, ok
[05:46] <BenC> wow, I need more coffee
[05:46] <BenC> I just used "apt-get install acpi_cpufreq" when I mean "modprobe acpi_cpufreq"
[05:46] <kylem> lol.
[05:47] <BenC> apt was terribly uncooperative with that request
[05:47] <BenC> DWIM damnit!
[05:47] <Mithrandir> BenC: just make a "do" package. :-P
[05:48] <BenC> I'll be like the guy on wedding crashers
[05:48] <BenC> "do it!"
[05:48] <kylem> lol.
[05:51] <bhale> does kvm do something useful w/o xen or vmware on top?
[06:04] <BenC> bhale: kvm is meant to be an alternative to xen/vmware
[06:16] <bhale> BenC: oh, i must have it mixed up with the shared paravirt code
[06:17] <BenC> bhale: Yeah, paravirt is just an API, but so far vmware, kvm and xen offer paravirt ops for linux guests
[06:42] <giskard> kvm needs new processor with VT supports
[06:43] <giskard> xen can work with VT but it's not necessary. (vmware afaik doesn't support VT)
[07:03] <ivoks> giskard: kvm can work without VT too
[07:04] <ivoks> slow, true, but it can
[07:05] <Treenaks> why did I parse that as 'without a vt'
[07:06] <ivoks> Treenaks: ?
[07:06] <Treenaks> ivoks: virtual terminal.. Alt+F1 etc.
[07:06] <ivoks> :)
[07:07] <ivoks> i don't understand why people claim that xen works without VT, and KVM doesn't
[07:07] <ivoks> truth is oposite
[07:07] <ivoks> kvm can run unmodified OS without VT enabled processor (very slow, but it can)
[07:07] <ivoks> while Xen can't run unmodified OS without VT processor
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> atheros :(
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> if I load any atheros drivers at all, my system decides it's time to shit itself.
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> oopses everywhere, X stops working, etc.
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> in 2.6.20-[45] -{generic,lowlatency}
[07:10] <bluefoxicy> Can I submit just one giant bug report with all the oopses gathered, or do I have to figure out which are which and split them up?
[07:11] <ivoks> i think this is a known issue
[07:12] <bluefoxicy> someone needs to teach gnome's syslog viewer to group lines like oopses and bug()s so I can just say "give me XXX" and cherry-pick (make all our lives easier)  :D
[07:15] <ivoks> we use vi
[07:15] <ivoks> :] 
[07:16] <bluefoxicy> ivoks:  is there actually a way to switch which sound card is being used for playback :|
[07:17] <ivoks> i don't think there is a gui for that :/
[07:18] <bluefoxicy> can I spend a hint coin and get a command :|  I'm considering offing my SB Audigy for on-board realtek sound but right now I'm thinking the onboard sounds like trash :|
[07:20] <ivoks> i think that should be done in /etc/asoundrc
[07:20] <ivoks> but i never even think about that (i have only one card - onboard)
[07:20] <bluefoxicy> heh
[07:27] <simira> is it any more official information about the distro sprint coming up?
[07:29] <giskard> ivoks, because of Intel-based hosts (requires VT capable processors)
[07:29] <giskard> taken from kvm.sf.net
[07:32] <ivoks> well, yes, for faster work you need kvm kernel module which requiers VT enabled proc
[07:32] <ivoks> but you can use qemu aka kvm userland tool wihtout kvm module
[07:46] <delire> is the fastest means to get my software into the Ubuntu repos to first begin maintaining it for Debian Unstable?
[07:46] <bhale> that is probably slower, but ideal.
[07:50] <delire> bhale: right
[07:51] <delire> bhale: there are perhaps three packages i'm considering maintaining.
[08:48] <lakin> I'm looking into this bug, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usplash-theme-ubuntu/+bug/67545 ,  but I could benefit from knowing which package is responsible for telling usplash the desired resolution? (I think this is stored in /etc/usplash.conf)
[08:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67545 in usplash "usplash appears black and white (grayscale) on amd64" [Low,Confirmed]  
[08:51] <Mithrandir> lakin: don't bother, it's mostly fixed and has a very non-obvious solution.
[08:51] <lakin> Mithrandir: ok ... are there packages I can test for it, or is it not yet fixed?
[08:51] <lakin> errr. not fully finished.
[08:52] <Mithrandir> lakin: grab usplash bzr, make it use libx86 instead of the embedded one and make amd64 as well as i386 use svgalib.
[08:53] <lakin> Mithrandir: thanks
[08:55] <Lure> doko: python-kde3 needs another small patch to get built with python 2.5: bug 79191
[08:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79191 in python-kde3 "no python2.5 modules" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79191
[10:55] <bluefoxicy> ffs.
[10:56] <bluefoxicy> Does it count as "a bug that causes data loss" if, say, accidentally double-clicking Deskbar or trying to click the arrow (history of commands) to close the command history list activates the "Shutdown the system" event from the recent actions list, causing everything to hard-close instantly?
[10:56] <bluefoxicy> without asking?
[10:56] <bluefoxicy> (firefox even came back up and said it crashed when I rebooted)
[10:57] <Seveas> bluefoxicy, no, it counts as user silliness ;)
[10:57] <bluefoxicy> hey I didn't expect it to happen :(
[10:58] <bluefoxicy> although I think it's significant that shutdown seems to hard-kill (SIGKILL) everything under Gnome (you get an INSTANT log-out, without a confirmation dialog)
[10:58] <Seveas> hopefully upstarts shutdown will grow ways of preventing that, just like gnome-power-manager can be inhibited from hibernating or responding to powerbutton presses
[10:59] <bluefoxicy> can't someone just fix deskbar's list of system actions :/
[11:00] <bluefoxicy> it's a GNOME applet, it should know how to properly ask GNOME to quit rather than telling init to reboot and letting /etc/init.d/gdm stop do it; at the very least it should also have an option to confirm any system actions like "logoff" or "reboot"  x_o
[11:02] <bhale> im not seeing how you even manageed this debacle
[11:02] <Treenaks> deskbar, for being silly about Gnome actions
[11:02] <bhale> execute 'shutdown' doesnt work as a user
[11:03] <delire> bluefoxicy: yes i think that is a design bug.
[11:03] <Nafallo> bhale: deskbar-applet has "system actions". among them shutdown.
[11:03] <bluefoxicy> bhale:  in deskbar, set its options to include "computer actions" and "history"; then type "shutdown" and pick "Shutdown the machine" (this will kill everything immediately)
[11:04] <bhale> well then its not enabled by default
[11:04] <bluefoxicy> bhale:  later, click the drop-down arrow (top option is now "Shutdown the machine"), then try to click it again and it'll... instantly kill your entire gnome session, run the shutdown sequence, and turn the machine off.
[11:04] <bhale> no
[11:04] <bhale> its not
[11:04] <bhale> why dont you turn it off
[11:04] <bluefoxicy> yeah, I did now.  (the entry is still in the history menu)
[11:05] <delire> oh, so it's not enabled by default?
[11:05] <bhale> no, its not
[11:05] <bhale> and neither is deskbar
[11:05] <bluefoxicy> argh.
[11:07] <bluefoxicy> bhale: it's not enabled by default; it's still part of Main and it still acts immature.
[11:07] <bhale> you clicked "shutdown"
[11:08] <bluefoxicy> by accident :(
[11:34] <bluefoxicy> there, I've filed TWO bugs.
[11:35] <Keybuk> mmm, bugs
[11:36] <bluefoxicy> Since you like them so much :D
[11:37] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: I'll just delegate them to my staff <g>
[11:37] <bluefoxicy> you have a staff?
[11:37] <bluefoxicy> I'm jealous.  I just got a TSR job.