[01:01] <Hobbsee> morning all
[01:04] <toma> hi Hobbsee
[01:04] <Hobbsee> toma!!!
[01:06] <toma> how's life?
[01:07] <Hobbsee> good.  didnt get attacked by any random people in the city yesterday, so that was good
[01:11] <toma> isn't that what usualy should happen?
[01:12] <Hobbsee> well, i'm female, adn the fact that i own a mobile (cell) phone means i must have some money
[01:12] <Hobbsee> so...combine them...
[01:13] <toma> hmm, ok. every girl 10+ seems to have a phone over here
[01:15] <toma> omg ogg opens kedit? what have i done...
[01:16] <Hobbsee> heh
[01:16] <Hobbsee> yes, exactly.  most people have phones here too
[01:22] <nixternal> not my daughter, although she tried. instead she got a laptop with edubuntu and an iPod :)
[01:22] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:23] <nixternal> told her she can have a cell phone when she starts driving
[01:23] <nixternal> actually, we caved in and got her a TrakPhone that has the GPS stuff built in
[01:23] <Hobbsee> nixternal: why so?
[01:23] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, people using cell phones irresponsibly
[01:23] <nixternal> but she can only call us, 911, and her grandparents
[01:23] <Hobbsee> nixternal: tell her she has to pay for it :P
[01:23] <toma> conservative
[01:23] <nixternal> she is 10, and if i do the math, i believe it would be me paying for it
[01:24] <nixternal> as i am sure she would work overtime in the chores department
[01:24] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[01:24] <Hobbsee> didnt realise she was so young
[01:24] <nixternal> yes, and i wish she could stay that way :)
[01:24] <nixternal> </typical father>
[01:24] <Hobbsee> heh
[01:30] <toma> nite
[02:17] <Hobbsee> !derivative
[02:17] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about derivative - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[02:35] <Hobbsee> mmm....kubuntu colours
[02:35] <Hobbsee> nixternal: let's have pink!!!!
[02:35] <Hobbsee> ponies!!!!
[02:38] <manchicken> It's adept hacking time
[02:39] <manchicken> I think Adept was written intentionally to throw me off ^_^
[02:40] <manchicken> I wonder if we should modify our emacs21 build to use GTK instead of x.
[02:41] <manchicken> Ah, wait, no, that's 22 that supports GTK.
[02:48] <nixternal> ewwwwwwwww
[02:48] <nixternal> no pink ;p
[02:49] <manchicken> The green in the netvibes logo maybe.
[02:53] <manchicken> I can't figure out what is inserting items into the package list... I bet it's super simple, but I'm just not seeing it.
[03:08] <manchicken> WHY can't I find the insertItem call?!
[03:08] <manchicken> It's simply not there!!!!!!
[03:08] <manchicken> GREP DOES NOT LIE!
[05:12] <manchicken> w00t!  I'm making progress on adept!!!!
[05:15] <nixternal> and im making progress on a new docs package for feisty :)
[05:15] <nixternal> finally
[05:16] <manchicken> We need someone to take some dictation on this adept code.
[05:17] <nixternal> isn't there any dev docs for it at all?
[05:17] <n8k99> mnchicken: how would that work?
[05:18] <manchicken> n8k99: I scream about a problem in a document, and there's a person or bot that picks it up and puts it into a document.
[05:18] <nixternal> lol
[05:18] <n8k99> oh nice!
[05:18] <n8k99> um, good luck with that! ;-)
[05:19] <manchicken> err, not a problem with a document.  A problem with a codebase.
[05:19] <n8k99> I grok
[05:20] <n8k99> is there anything I can do to help?
[05:20] <crimsun> you can write down what manchicken screams.
[05:20] <n8k99> but I cant hear him
[05:20] <n8k99> so there must be no problems!!
[05:21] <nixternal> definitely couldn't hear him after the BEARS win today :)
[05:21] <manchicken> n8k99: What's your phone number?  I can fix that problem ;)
[05:21] <nixternal> and he lives 30 minutes away ;p
[05:21] <manchicken> BET YOUR ASS THEY WON.
[05:21] <n8k99> lol
[05:21] <manchicken> Good as Gould.
[05:21] <nixternal> ahh, watching NBC5 i take it ;p
[05:21] <n8k99> 867-5309 I live with Jenny
[05:21] <nixternal> gahahaha
[05:21] <manchicken> Naw, I was watching Fox.
[05:21] <nixternal> dude, i gave that phone number to my brother one time when he asked for my cell phone
[05:22] <nixternal> that and 588-2300
[05:22] <n8k99> ooh
[05:22] <nixternal> five eight eight, two three hundred, EMPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEE!
[05:23] <nixternal> why is xsltproc so slow in pbuilder
[05:57] <manchicken> Okay, so here's a question...
[05:58] <manchicken> Is the "section" for a package going to be "kde" for a main KDE package, and "universe/kde" for a non-main package?
[05:59] <manchicken> right now, the pattern I'm noticing is that non-main packages seem to have restricted/* or universe/* prefixing the section.
[06:09] <yuriy> manchicken: have you tried asking mornfall for some pointers?
[06:11] <Jucato> manchicken: that seems to be the pattern I'm observing too
[06:11] <manchicken> Don't recon I've seen mornfall around.
[06:12] <Jucato> manchicken: he's in #kde-devel whenever he's online
[06:12] <Jucato> (he hasn't gone in here for quite some time now)
[08:01] <nixternal> Riddell: http://www.nixternal.com/work/feisty/kdocs/
[08:02] <Hobbsee> heya nixternal
[08:02] <nixternal> it builds and works on a feisty box. that is the latest snapshot of kubuntu docs, still pretty so/so at this point, but it would be nice to get them in and hope people catch some stuff for me and file boogs
[08:02] <nixternal> hiya Hobbsee
[08:03] <nixternal> man, i have been breaking my back with the new kubuntu docs stuff
[08:03] <nixternal> one of these days maybe i will be happy with it
[08:04] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:04] <nixternal> i have been knee deep in xsl template files, and ended up doing a little hackish maneuver to get 99% of it to work
[08:06] <nixternal> i want to try and get a new doc release for each pre-release this time through, hopefully to prevent the bugs from showing after final release this time
[08:29] <Hobbsee> heya Lure
[08:29] <Lure> hi Hobbsee
[08:30] <Lure> Hobbsee: thanks - I needed that
[08:31] <Hobbsee> lol
[08:36] <Jucato> anyone here using Scribus?
[08:37] <nixternal> \sh_away: about your vmware-server, you have build-essential installed correct?
[08:39] <nixternal> Jucato: i have played with it
[08:39] <Jucato> nixternal: have you been able to print in scribus-ng on edgy?
[08:40] <nixternal> ya, i printed business cards with it
[08:40] <nixternal> ng is the latest version correct?
[08:40] <Jucato> yes
[08:40] <nixternal> 1.3.3.x or whatever
[08:40] <nixternal> ya, i print with it
[08:41] <Jucato> bah... :(
[08:41] <nixternal> hehe
[08:41] <nixternal> what printer do you have?
[08:41] <Jucato> I can't print with any other app (KDE apps of course) but not scribus...
[08:41] <Jucato> HP PSC 3-in-1
[08:41] <nixternal> you know what, i don't have the latest latest either of scribus, i seen they recently came otu with a new edition
[08:41] <Hawkwind> s/can't/can
[08:41] <nixternal> i have an hp psc1610
[08:41] <Jucato> rawr... ok now I'm just plain annoyed...
[08:42] <Jucato> probably some packages I'm missing... nixternal, would you know what cups or gs packages I need?
[08:42] <nixternal> Jucato: i have no clue, i have never done anything funky. i use what was installed by default
[08:42] <Jucato> rawr
[08:42] <Hawkwind> Anyone here play secondlife at all by chance ?
[08:43] <nixternal> i don't, but they were playing it at the loco meeting on saturday
[08:43] <nixternal> looked pretty cool
[08:43] <Hawkwind> Supposed to be the hottest game around right now
[08:43] <Jucato> if only it allowed for a sort of RPG/Fantasy type of living... then I'm sold
[08:44] <Hawkwind> I created a character and have loaded it, just no idea what exactly I'm supposed to be doing yet
[08:44] <Hawkwind> Jucato: Seems your sold then!
[08:44] <Jucato> Hawkwind: ??
[08:44] <Hawkwind> I dunno, just sounded kewl to say
[08:44] <Jucato> lol
[08:44] <Hawkwind> Jucato: secondlife.com and read up a bit.  You might like it
[08:45] <Jucato> I've read some of it... but I'm looking for stuff like wizards and magic and dragons and nixternal's to slay
[08:45] <Jucato> scratch that last one...
[08:45] <nixternal> haha
[08:45] <nixternal> the bed is going to slay me here in a few
[08:46] <Jucato> you guys on the same timezone (CST) should be heading for bed :P
[08:46] <nixternal> you know it
[08:46] <Hawkwind> Jucato: xu4 is where it's at then :-)
[08:46] <Jucato> heh ultima..
[08:47] <Hawkwind> Jucato: Unfortunately, noone will package it for *Ubuntu, so you'd have to use 3rd party repos
[08:48] <Jucato> it's FOSS?
[08:48] <nixternal> g'nite all!
[08:48] <Jucato> night nixternal!
[08:48] <Hawkwind> Jucato: Almost every other distro known packages it
[08:49] <Hawkwind> It's even in Debian AFAIK
[08:49] <Jucato> aah
[08:59] <kwwii> ok, who wants to work on getting this stuff running with kdm?
[08:59] <kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FaceBrowserLogin
[09:01] <Tonio_> hi
[09:01] <kwwii> hi Tonio_
[09:01] <Tonio_> hey kwwii fine ?
[09:01] <kwwii> Tonio_: doing very well, thanks
[09:01] <kwwii> Tonio_: and you?
[09:01] <Tonio_> fine too ;) searching for a new appartment
[09:02] <kwwii> oh, that sounds like fun!
[09:02] <kwwii> :p
[09:02] <Tonio_> not that much but well... :)
[09:02] <Hobbsee> Tonio_!!!
[09:03] <Tonio_> I have to fix the broken guidance package
[09:03] <Tonio_> hey Hobbsee !!
[09:03] <Hobbsee> :)
[09:03] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: and https://launchpad.net/bugs/78947 if you like
[09:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78947 in kdebase "File overwrite problem" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
[09:04] <Tonio_> Hobbsee will do
[09:04] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: :)
[09:08] <Hobbsee> Lure: did you ever get pykde uploaded?
[09:08] <Lure> Hobbsee: not yet :-(
[09:09] <Lure> Hobbsee: no core-dev around...
[09:09] <Hobbsee> Lure: well, Tonio_'s here, mithrandir and pitti are in #ubuntu-devel
[09:09] <Hobbsee> Lure: i'm sure one of them will upload, then we get most of kde installable again
[09:09] <Lure> Hobbsee: will ping them in #ubuntu-devel
[09:09] <Hobbsee> Lure: OK
[09:09] <Hobbsee> Lure: i'm sure that pitti would upload for you, if tollef's busy
[09:10] <Lure> Hobbsee: interesting - bug 79191 is marked fixed released
[09:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79191 in python-kde3 "no python2.5 modules" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79191
[09:11] <Lure> Hobbsee: let's wait for feisty-changes to see the upload...
[09:11] <Hobbsee> Lure: you didn't test the patch; it will fail to build. the current version in feisty has all the fixes needed.
[09:12] <Hobbsee> Lure: you may want to ask doko about that.  or try to build the patch
[09:12] <Tonio_> Lure: I can do any upload if needed
[09:12] <Tonio_> Lure: are you aware of guidance issues ?
[09:15] <Lure> Tonio_: yes, I am - problem is that we first need PyKDE and pykdeextensions for 2.5
[09:16] <Lure> Tonio_: then it should be simple ;-)
[09:16] <Lure> Hobbsee: my debdiff built for me and works here
[09:16] <Hobbsee> Lure: hrm.  ask Tonio_ :)
[09:21] <Tonio_> Lure: I'm having a look
[09:21] <Tonio_> Lure: just have a couple of uploads to perform first
[09:25] <Tonio_> and before that I have to install my new printer ;)
[09:25] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: dont try your new printer with feisty
[09:25] <Hobbsee> well, you can try
[09:25] <Tonio_> Hobbsee, indeed ;)
[09:25] <Tonio_> Hobbsee ah ?
[09:25] <Tonio_> Hobbsee it is a wireless one...
[09:26] <Tonio_> opportunity to test ;)
[09:26] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: ahh :)
[09:43] <Tonio_> Hobbsee the network printer scanning fails in kde
[09:43] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: yep.  seems so
[09:43] <Hobbsee> did on edgy for a while too
[09:43] <Tonio_> it tries to scan on 127.0.0.1 instead of my subnet
[09:43] <Hobbsee> but then some update fixed it
[09:43] <Hobbsee> you can change teh subnet it takes...
[09:43] <Tonio_> Hobbseedo you get the same issue ?
[09:43] <Tonio_> Hobbsee yes but it doesn't seem to find it....
[09:43] <Tonio_> strange
[09:45] <Tonio_> hum nope it worked the second time :)
[09:47] <Riddell> Lure: did your patch to pykdeextensions get applied?
[09:47] <Riddell> oh, patch was to python-kde3
[09:48] <Hobbsee> hey Riddell
[09:48] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: yay :)
[09:49] <Hobbsee> gah.  why is mum always on the phone when i want to ask her something...
[09:50] <Riddell> pick up other phone and talk?
[09:50] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:51] <Hobbsee> doesnt work, actually.  which really sucks, when talking to relatives via phone
[10:06] <Tonio_> Hobbsee I can print within the network
[10:06] <Tonio_> I had an issue but that's relative to brother driver actualy
[10:33] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: hrm, OK
[10:49] <Tonio_> Hobbsee do you know if it is possible to scan over the network with sane ?
[10:49] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: sane?
[10:49] <Tonio_> Hobbsee yes
[10:50] <Riddell> sane is for image scanners
[10:50] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:51] <Riddell> Tonio_: you mean sharing scanner from one machine over network?  no idea
[10:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: just found a tuto :)
[10:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: well my new printer has scanner and wireless so I'd like to try this in fact
[10:52] <Tonio_> looks hard to configure but possible
[10:57] <\sh> is kdelibs4-dev usable again?
[11:02] <Hobbsee> Unable to retrieve printer info. Printer answered:
[11:02] <Hobbsee> client-error-bad-request
[11:02] <Hobbsee> ipp://x1478%ABK%0850.205:631/ipp
[11:02] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: ^ is what i get when scanning for, then clicking on, the ipp printer
[11:03] <Riddell> ugly URL
[11:04] <Tonio_> Hobbsee there is a tool provided by brother to configure sane
[11:04] <Tonio_> it works with IP but i'd like to use the nodename
[11:04] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: ah
[11:04] <Tonio_> just don't know how to get the good one ;)
[11:04] <Hobbsee> Riddell: er, yes...dunno how to fix it though - i had this problem in edgy, but one of the updates fixed it
[11:12] <Hobbsee> Riddell: if you knew, i'd be greatful
[11:20] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: Riddell: looks like you can just force it, if you know the IPP address of the printer
[11:21] <Tonio_> Hobbsee it works :)
[11:22] <Tonio_> Hobbsee the only thing is that my dhcp router sucks and dns doesn't recognize the nodename...
[11:22] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: yay :)
[11:24] <Tonio_> hum, well it worked except kooka crashed :)
[11:24] <Hobbsee> hehe
[11:24] <Hobbsee> darn :P
[11:24] <Hobbsee> yes, it's 9.30pm...
[12:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm about to upload kdebluetooth and a merged with debian digikam
[12:16] <Tonio_> printer testing is over and everything works, including scanning over the network ;)
[12:17] <Riddell> golly
[12:17] <Riddell> write a howto!
[12:17] <Riddell> Tonio_: what's new in kdebluetooth?
[12:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure, but that's brother specific since I used a script provided by them ;)
[12:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: I fixed desktop files (dunhandler path)
[12:17] <Riddell> oh aye
[12:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll probably document the brother wikipage, but that's not a generic process
[12:18] <Tonio_> brother rocks ;)
[12:19] <Tonio_> amazing capabilities for the price (100), with full wireless support
[12:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: do I need to work on guidance or are you or Lure on the problem ?
[12:21] <Riddell> Tonio_: not too sure, pykde3 and pykdeextensions seem to be built for python 2.5 now
[12:21] <Riddell> so maybe guidance just needs s/2.4/2.5/ I'm not sure
[12:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm testing, gimme a second ;)
[12:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: it's building I'll let you know
[12:35] <Lure> Tonio_: just do it - I will not have time until the evening.
[12:36] <Tonio_> Lure: okay ! looks like there are issues in path or something
[12:36] <Lure> Tonio_: it is basic 2.4/2.5 replace, the problem was the pykdeextensions were not functional to build it
[12:36] <Tonio_>  g++ -pthread g++ -pthread -c -g -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -O2 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I/usr/include -I/usr/include -I/usr/include/python2.5 -I/usr/include/python2.5 -I/usr/include/kde -I/usr/include/qt3 -I. serviceconfig/kcm_serviceconfig.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o /tmp/buildd/kde-guidance-0.7.1~svn20070111/./build/.libs/serviceconfig.o
[12:36] <Tonio_> g++: g++: No such file or directory
[12:37] <Lure> Tonio_: yep, that was it - pykdeextensions put "g++ -pthread" twice in the libtool command line
[12:37] <Lure> Tonio_: not sure where this comes from....
[12:37] <Tonio_> hum, not only pyversion needs update.... I have to patch the all sources
[12:37] <Tonio_> ./debian/patches/12_force_python2.4_script.diff:+#!/usr/bin/python2.4
[12:38] <Tonio_> lots of things like that in the patches
[12:38] <Tonio_> okay I'll try to fix this
[12:42] <Lure> Tonio_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/python2.5/2.5-5ubuntu3
[12:43] <Riddell> Lure: what's the packages that need updates for python qt dbus to work again?
[12:43] <Lure> Tonio_: it looks like doko have found the issue
[12:43] <Lure> Riddell: python-dbus 0.80-rc3, PyQt snapshot from January
[12:43] <Lure> Riddell: I just tested simple events (device added/removed, they work), need to paly more with battery events
[12:44] <Lure> Tonio_: this should fix kde-guidance build (double g++ in cmd line)
[12:45] <Lure> Tonio_: http://lure.lu.funpic.de/kubuntu/feisty/py2.5/kg.debdiff
[12:46] <Lure> Tonio_: this is what I did, yesterday, but was unable to test due to g++ issue
[12:46] <Tonio_> Lure: this is exactly what I was already trying ;)
[12:47] <Lure> Tonio_: hibernate patch has to be dropped to, as it is applied by accident on wrong location ;-)
[12:47] <Lure> Tonio_: it breaks hibernate on lid close ;-)
[12:47] <Tonio_> Lure: okay, thanks for the info :)
[12:47] <Tonio_> Lure: droped or fixed ? I droped it
[12:48] <Lure> Tonio_: drop it - so no patches needed anymore
[12:48] <Tonio_> Lure: sure
[12:51] <Tonio_> Lure: a couple of other fixes also needed (s/2.4/2.5 in kde-guidance.install)
[12:52] <Lure> Tonio_: probably - (it may not be the last debdiff of what I tried yesterday night ;-)
[12:54] <jr> Riddell: seems like ksirc still works
[12:54] <Riddell> jr: yep.  oh well.
[12:54] <Riddell> ping
[12:55] <Riddell> jr: ping
[12:55] <jr> ok, more broken than when I worked on it
[01:00] <Tonio_> Lure: same issue..... :(
[01:00] <Tonio_> g++: g++: No such file or directory
[01:21] <Riddell> nixternal: kubuntu-docs uploaded, thanks
[01:36] <Hobbsee> Riddell: when do we get the next kde4 snapshot on it?  is it possible to develop for kde4 without compiling and installing anything else?  if nto, could we make it so?
[01:46] <kwwii> well, it is official now :-)
[01:47] <Tm_T> kwwii: What is?
[01:47] <kwwii> I'll be working for canonical fulltime...yippeee!!!!
[01:47] <Tm_T> \o/
[01:47] <kwwii> just received the contract
[01:48] <Hobbsee> kwwii: yay!
[01:48] <Hobbsee> kwwii: what will you be doing?
[01:48] <Tm_T> o/ (o/ \o) \o
[01:48] <kwwii> artwork and artistic direction
[01:48] <Hobbsee> :)
[01:49] <kwwii> sweet, this really made my day
[01:49] <Tm_T> Maybe mine too.
[01:50] <kwwii> lol
[01:51] <raphink> wow great
[01:51] <raphink> congrast kwwii :)
[01:52] <kwwii> thanks raphink
[01:52] <Hobbsee> raphink!!!
[01:52] <raphink> hi Hobbsee
[01:53] <Lure> congrats kwwii - looking forward for your new improvements ;-)
[01:54] <kwwii> pink and green, baby...here it comes
[01:57] <Tm_T> Jucato: Pink and green babies.
[01:57] <Hobbsee> kwwii: found the *perfect* wallpaper for it
[01:57] <Jucato> :O
[01:57] <kwwii> link?
[01:58] <Hobbsee> http://www.buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/screenshots/ponies1.png
[01:58] <kwwii> YES!!!! PONIES!!!
[01:58] <Jucato> Tm_T: link to what they were talking about?
[01:58] <kwwii> man, you're doing my work for me
[01:58] <Tm_T> Jucato: Ponies?
[01:59] <kwwii> well, mark wanted community support - we'll see what he thinks (but *everyone* likes ponies)
[01:59] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:59] <Hobbsee> kwwii: :D
[01:59] <Tm_T> kwwii: Ponies.
[01:59] <kwwii> don't worry, I'll make sure you get credit!
[02:00] <Hobbsee> kwwii: hwo about you put that up as temporary artwork, with a warning of "not final" yet :P
[02:00] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: And remove warning before release.
[02:00] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: well, yeah :P
[02:01] <hunger> Hobbsee: Oh, yes and with a really crappy "not final" renedering so that ppl can get upset about the unprofessional artworks again:-)
[02:01] <Hobbsee> hunger: haha
[02:01] <kwwii> Hobbsee: that would be really funny actually
[02:01] <Hobbsee> kwwii: :D
[02:01] <kwwii> at least as a kde splashscreen
[02:01] <Hobbsee> kwwii: it's either that or the long pointy stick of doom :P
[02:02] <kwwii> Hobbsee: sorry, I have been keeping my long pointy stick out of the public :p
[02:02] <Hobbsee> kwwii: well, as anything, really.  the artwork isnt final, and people will have forgotten the edgy artwork, after they've run feisty for a while
[02:02] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I've not heard of any plans for the next KDE 4 snapshot release
[02:02] <Hobbsee> kwwii: hehe.
[02:02] <Hobbsee> Riddell: awww, ok.
[02:02] <Hobbsee> Riddell: you think ponies as a temporary background would be fun?  :P
[02:03] <Hobbsee> maybe with an inset of "no_pony_for_you.jpg
[02:03] <hunger> Hobbsee: Are the ponies in the nude? You should rethink that then before baby jesus starts to cry again;-)
[02:03] <Hobbsee> hunger: heh
[02:04] <Hobbsee> well, they have their manes...
[02:04] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I was thinking of this actually.  I got it as a christmas present from someone who I dragged along to a kubuntu talk http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/070114_13411.jpeg
[02:05] <Hobbsee> Riddell: *grin*
[02:05] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ponies are better though.
[02:05] <Hobbsee> Riddell: maybe for 7.10 devel?
[02:05] <kwwii> pony pr0n, that is what we need
[02:05] <kwwii> :p
[02:05] <hunger> Riddell: That picture surely is for ubuntu and not kubuntu!
[02:05] <Riddell> man, that pony one is vicious on the eyes
[02:05] <Tm_T> kwwii: Ponies. :)'
[02:06] <hunger> You will need a epilepsy warning when using the ponies...
[02:06] <Hobbsee> Riddell: not really.  would tell you if the display was running correctly
[02:06] <Hobbsee> hunger: i'm the queen of epilepsy warning websites.
[02:07] <Hobbsee> :P
[02:07] <Hobbsee> Riddell:
[02:07] <Hobbsee> Riddell: well, we need one for the kdm/splash screen, and one for the background.
[02:08] <Hobbsee> you know...it might just even make people nto think it's final, and not upgrade to it
[02:24] <Hobbsee> kwwii: http://ringlet.schumanfamily.com/1997_1024_768.jpg would do :P
[02:27] <Tonio_> hum, I'll probably package qtemu toonight :) would be nice to have this in the repos
[02:28] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: qtemu?
[02:28] <Tonio_> Hobbsee qt4 frontend for qemu
[02:28] <Hobbsee> ooh, nice :)
[02:29] <kwwii> Hobbsee: I think I'll look for wallpaper like that for my office
[02:29] <Hobbsee> kwwii: hehe!
[02:29] <kwwii> they just look so darn HAPPY!
[02:30] <Hobbsee> kwwii: they do!
[02:40] <kwwii> Hobbsee is just soooo full of love and happiness today
[02:40] <kwwii> :p
[02:40] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:40] <Hobbsee> kwwii: i went to work today, remember?  :P
[02:41] <kwwii> lol
[02:41] <Hobbsee> kwwii: the scary thing is, i had some of these as a child :P
[02:41] <\sh> oh moins kwwii
[02:41] <kwwii> I can remember my nieces having stuff like that too
[02:41] <kwwii> howdy \sh
[02:42] <kwwii> can't we do a pony calendar wallpaper thing? I bet nobody would complain about this being incorrect
[02:42] <kwwii> :p
[02:42] <hunger> Hobbsee: Being male gives a pretty good form of immunity to such strangeness. Lucky me:-)
[02:42] <Hobbsee> hunger: hah
[02:43] <Hobbsee> kwwii: haha
[02:43] <Hobbsee> kwwii: or you could try to get the devs to put up a wallpaper of themselves...
[02:43] <Hobbsee> change them every month
[02:43] <kwwii> we could select a new dev every month
[02:43] <hunger> Hobbsee: You are really propossing to expose users to such a horror cabinet?;-)
[02:43] <kwwii> now that would be funny
[02:44] <Hobbsee> hunger: hehe.  why not?
[02:44] <Hobbsee> it's a development release, remember?
[02:44] <kwwii> "freaky geeky calendar"
[02:44] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:45] <Riddell> that's not true
[02:45] <Riddell> certainly kwwii doesn't think so :)
[02:45] <kwwii> btw...I installed herd2 on my ppc and it worked fine until I rebooted, now it Oops on boot
[02:46] <kwwii> anyone had this problem as well?
[02:46] <Hobbsee> Riddell: hrm?
[02:55] <Riddell> kwwii: works and boots fine on my ppc
[02:57] <kwwii> Riddell: that is the funky thing, the cd boots fine, and it booted fine after I installed but for some reason it no longer does....I spent the whole evening configuring stuff and don't want to do it again :-)
[03:09] <Lure> Tonio_: new python is in the archives - kde-guidance now builds for me, so you should be able to upload package to support 2.5
[03:09] <hunger> Lure: Great, then I should be able to update soon:-)
[03:11] <Tonio_> Lure: grat, I'm building and will upload
[03:11] <Lure> Tonio_: thanks!
[03:23] <kwwii> lol
[03:23] <kwwii> booting and appending init 3 works
[03:23] <kwwii> crazy
[03:24] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:24] <Hobbsee> night all!
[03:24] <kwwii> night Hobbsee
[03:24] <Tm_T> G'night!
[03:26] <Jucato> night Hobbsee
[03:27] <apokryphos> :O
[03:27] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:31] <Jucato> what the?!?!
[03:32] <Hobbsee> Jucato: hrm?
[03:32] <Jucato> registered nick....LongPointyStick...
[03:32] <Jucato> aaaah
[03:32] <Hobbsee> hehe, and?
[03:32] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[03:33] <LongPointyStickO> pathetic
[03:34] <Jucato> lol :P
[03:34] <Jucato> wb kwwii!
[03:35] <kwwii> ;-)
[03:35] <kwwii> it works!
[03:35] <Hobbsee> yay kwwii :D
[03:35] <kwwii> although the same problems occur with the touchpad as in dapper and edgy
[03:35] <kwwii> but hey, you cannot have everything!
[03:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:35] <kwwii> is it just me or do the fonts look nicer?
[03:36] <Hobbsee> that's rpobably because those who do the touchpads dont have that problem :P
[03:36] <Hobbsee> dunno - didnt you do the fonts?
[03:36] <kwwii> no,no, making a font is a *lot* of work
[03:36] <kwwii> let's not start on that discussion again
[03:37] <Hobbsee> haha
[03:37] <kwwii> lol
[03:39] <kwwii> here is something interesting...a red light is now shining out of my headphone port
[03:39] <kwwii> that would be my processor burning up
[03:39] <Hobbsee> woot!  :D
[03:39] <Hobbsee> mmmm....fire...
[03:40] <DaSkreech> hi LongpointystickO!
[03:40] <Hobbsee> heya DaSkreech
[03:41] <DaSkreech> Hi Hobbsee :) How's the poking going?
[03:41] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: i do more than poke people :P
[03:42] <DaSkreech> Well ... I was working up to that
[03:42] <DaSkreech> Night :)
[03:43] <DaSkreech> answer eve
[03:43] <Hobbsee> to?
[03:43] <kwwii_> well, that didn't last long
[03:43] <kwwii_> everything froze up and dies
[03:43] <DaSkreech> How's the poking going? :)
[03:43] <Hobbsee> ah.  fun
[03:43] <DaSkreech> kwwii_: Mac?
[03:43] <kwwii_> DaSkreech: yepp
[03:44] <kwwii_> sometimes it boots, sometimes it doesn't...sometimes it freezes, sometimes it doesn't
[03:44] <DaSkreech> kwwii_:
[03:45] <DaSkreech> Which one?
[03:45] <kwwii_> a ppc laptop
[03:45] <kwwii_> last gen ppc laptop
[03:45] <kwwii_> powerbook g4
[03:46] <DaSkreech> Ah my friend has the same issue
[03:46] <DaSkreech>  I think it's his hard drive
[03:46] <Riddell> Tonio_, Lure: someone just added a patch to https://launchpad.net/bugs/79192 for python 2.5 in guidance
[03:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79192 in kde-guidance "not installable with python2.5" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[03:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: already applied here :)
[03:47] <Lure> Riddell: that someone is mbiebl, DD working on package
[03:47] <kwwii_> DaSkreech: well, it is kinda hard to work on a system that you cannot run ;-)
[03:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm currently building
[03:48] <Lure> Tonio_: is too slow ;-)
[03:48] <kwwii_> guess I'll use Hobbsee's pointStick on someone in Oslo
[03:48] <DaSkreech> kwwii_: He noticed that anytime he puts pressue onteh left side of the laptop it goes nutsy
[03:48] <kwwii_> lol
[03:48] <Tonio_> Lure: those times were when I wasn't also dealing with a network scanner bandwidth issue :)
[03:49] <Lure> Riddell: patch is more or less what I sent to Tonio and he is working on it
[03:49] <kwwii_> well, there is this strange red light coming out of the headphone port which is on the left
[03:49] <Lure> Tonio_: you know that I like to tease you ;-)
[03:49] <Tonio_> Lure: in fact this patch is exactly your + mine changes
[03:49] <Lure> Tonio_: true, there are not many ways to do it
[03:50] <Tonio_> that's tricky.... the more I scan, the slower the scan is.... maybe a buffer issue or something....
[03:50] <DaSkreech> kwwii_:
[03:50] <DaSkreech> As in out of the port for the jack?
[03:50] <DaSkreech> or a light beside it?
[03:50] <kwwii_> no, out of the port for the jack
[03:50] <kwwii_> when booting osx it flashes once
[03:50] <kwwii_> but in herd2 it stays on all the imte
[03:50] <kwwii_> time
[03:51] <kwwii_> think I'll leave linux alone before I break something
[03:51] <Tonio_> Lure: talking about old times discussed things, what's happening the adept+debconf ?
[03:51] <kwwii_> luckily I have this machine too - but I can't take it with me :-(
[03:55] <bddebian> Heya
[03:55] <DaSkreech> hunger: Good job on the 1.1 release
[04:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: kde-guidance builds, I'm uploading
[04:01] <Tonio_> I also updated kftpgrabber and will now fix gtk-qt-engines
[04:01] <Tonio_> and kde-systemsettings
[04:02] <hunger> DaSkreech: ?
[04:02] <DaSkreech> Just read the decible mailing list :0
[04:03] <DaSkreech> I'm a bit behind on my mail :)
[04:03] <Lure> Tonio_: not sure - I think Riddell asked manchicken|away to look into this
[04:03] <Riddell> into what?
[04:04] <Lure> Riddell: adept & debconf issue
[04:04] <Riddell> I plan to look at that this week
[04:08] <sebas> Are there any changes I should merge upstream from mbiebl's patch? (Didn't spot any when looking through it)
[04:08] <manchicken> What now?
[04:09] <DaSkreech> Hi manchicken
[04:10] <manchicken> howdy.
[04:10] <manchicken> Riddell: I expect to have a patch to you today for the adept "is it main?" column thingy.
[04:10] <manchicken> But don't hang me if I'm wrong.
[04:10] <manchicken> ^_^
[04:10] <manchicken> Jucato: Wuddup?
[04:11] <manchicken> How's it going, KILLJOY? ;)
[04:11] <manchicken> heh
[04:11] <nixternal> Riddell: thanks for the upload :)  i promise the docs will only get better!
[04:11] <Jucato> manchicken: seems like you got mornfall's attention?
[04:11] <Jucato> lol! killjoy eh? :P
[04:12] <manchicken> He said something at 0720.
[04:12] <manchicken> I was still nice and asleep at that point.
[04:12] <manchicken> (0720 UTC-0600)
[04:12] <Jucato> :)
[04:12] <Jucato> to which I replied "wonderful things, these timezones are" :D
[04:13] <manchicken> Tell me about it.
[04:14] <manchicken> You don't seem affected by them though.
[04:14] <manchicken> Looks to me like you just don't sleep.
[04:14] <Jucato> oh I do... and most of the time, I miss the juicy stuff because of sleep
[04:15] <manchicken> I haven't noticed a lapse in your #kubuntu coverage.
[04:15] <Jucato> oh... then you haven't seen me a few months ago :)
[04:15] <manchicken> It's about time we got some snow.
[04:16] <manchicken> Stupid late winter.
[04:16] <Jucato> snow...
[04:16] <DaSkreech> keyes :)
[04:17] <Jucato> wonder if there will be a KEyesRiddell...
[04:17] <Tm_T> manchicken: Yup.
[04:18] <Tm_T> manchicken: Usually it's -30'C here by now, but noooo, first real snow for months.
[04:18] <DaSkreech> Isn't there one already?
[04:18] <Jucato> dunno... don't have Qt4 here to find out
[04:19] <manchicken> It's been around 10-20'C around here for a while, when it needs to be somewhere below zero.
[04:19] <Tm_T> manchicken: Yup, will be +1 or so tomorrow...
[04:19] <Tm_T> Ice roads are bit weak. =)
[04:21] <manchicken> I Chicago the ice and snow are cleared up within hours.
[04:22] <manchicken> YAY! I'm smart!  I commented out a bracket and then wondered why I was getting syntax errors.  I'm so smart.
[04:22] <Tm_T> manchicken: Clean ice from iceroad, you get open lake. =)
[04:22] <sebas> Are there any changes I should merge upstream from mbiebl's patch? (Didn't spot any when looking through it)
[04:23] <Riddell> nixternal: excellent :)
[04:27] <manchicken> Tm_T: The lake hurts more than helps sometimes.
[04:47] <Tm_T> manchicken: Bah, good iceroad is only way out from ilands.
[04:55] <Tonio_> sebas: concerning guidance, no change, that's just packaging relative
[04:56] <sebas> Ok, thanks
[05:07] <Riddell> mhb: do you have the same translation problem as kdesktop has on every app?  or just kdesktop?
[05:22] <Riddell> http://parker1.co.uk/satanic/kubuntu-satanic-edition-released/  kindae the anti-ichthux :)
[05:23] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Did you see that gNewSense have a KDE version now?
[05:24] <Riddell> DaSkreech: ooh, nice
[05:25] <DaSkreech> :-)
[05:25] <DaSkreech> And less significant is Fedora 7 has a Fedora-KDE iso :)
[05:25] <Riddell> yes, I tried to comment on their wiki page and it wouldn't let me
[05:26] <DaSkreech> Error message 984: We are Sorry Riddell Nothing Personal we just don't like you.
[05:28] <mhb> hi everyone
[05:28] <mhb> Riddell: kdesktop only
[05:28] <Riddell> mhb: strange, I wonder why it only affects that 1 app
[05:30] <mhb> Riddell: it affects kdesktop as a whole I guess, since the Screen is locked pop-up is also provided by it
[05:31] <Riddell> yes, it is
[05:32] <Riddell> DaSkreech: where is gnewsense KDE?  doesn't seem to be at http://cdimage.gnewsense.org/
[05:33] <DaSkreech> ISO not released yet
[05:33] <DaSkreech> Just promises :)
[05:36] <Riddell> DaSkreech: ah, I'll look forward to it
[05:37] <DaSkreech> Should be interesting. I'm wondering if they are going to do vanilla KDE or run it through a Kubuntu Filter
[05:37] <Riddell> I expect that'll use Kubuntu
[05:44] <manchicken> I wish GNU would make an emacs port.
[05:44] <manchicken> err, Emacs-Qt port
[05:45] <ryanakca> hey kwwii
[05:45] <kwwii> howdy ryanakca
[05:46] <ryanakca> kwwii: dunno what you think of this... but I just downloaded knoppix and noticed it had some really cool slightly transparent menus... might be interesting in feisty? dunno if it's possible...
[05:46] <kwwii> ryanakca: I would guess that they turned on the transparent menu in the config
[05:46] <ryanakca> kk...
[05:46] <Jucato> ryanakca: Appearance -> Style -> Effects
[05:47] <ryanakca> Jucato: ah, kk, thanks
[05:47] <Jucato> no problemo :)
[05:47] <ryanakca> kwwii: anywais, t'was just a suggestion :)
[05:47] <kwwii> the biggest problem with that is that if you change menus too quickly you will see artifacts from the last menu
[05:49] <kwwii> ryanakca: actually I like the effect and use it on my system :-)
[05:49] <Jucato> :)
[05:50] <fdoving> i don't like it :)
[05:50] <Jucato> another problem would probably be the proper balance in the translucency...
[05:50] <kwwii> ouch, how angry is my wife going to be that I erased the entire backup when migrating to the new laptop?
[05:50] <fdoving> but i'm probably the only one using Quartz windeco in 2007 too. :)
[05:50] <ryanakca> kwwii: lol, artifacts? like past values in the menu?
[05:50] <kwwii> fdoving: lol
[05:50] <ryanakca> kwwii: oooh, that can't be good
[05:51] <kwwii> ryanakca: yeah, you can see parts of the old menu from what I have heard (although it does not happen on my machine)
[05:51] <DaSkreech> kwwii: Is she doing her disseration?
[05:52] <ryanakca> nope... doesn't happen here either... what's the difference between Software Blend and XRender Blend? XRender = GL?
[05:56] <kwwii> DaSkreech: nope, but it is all her files and emails from the last 5 years
[05:56] <kwwii> and she is a teacher
[05:57] <kwwii> ryanakca: no idea
[05:57] <ryanakca> kwwii: hmm... so, if it's just a backup, you should be able to make a new one, right?
[05:58] <DaSkreech> kwwii: Does backup mean she still has originals?
[05:58] <DaSkreech> Right what ryanakca said :)
[05:58] <ryanakca> kwwii: kk... hmm... my mom is a teacher and she... wasn't pleased... when she learned that she couldn't use her report card software under linux or with WINE... which explains why she's back on windows :(
[05:59] <kwwii> DaSkreech: I have the harddrive but no computer that it fits in
[05:59] <DaSkreech> That's a small consideration
[05:59] <ryanakca> bring it to work?
[05:59] <DaSkreech> ryanakca: report card software?
[05:59] <DaSkreech> You mean a spreadsheet? :)
[06:00] <kwwii> guess I'll go to the guys house who I gave the old mac too and make another backup
[06:00] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: yeah... no... some app the Ontario Goverment wrote... it manages it all...
[06:00] <kwwii> but I won't tell her that :p
[06:00] <ryanakca> lol
[06:00] <DaSkreech> kwwii: there must be some adapter :)
[06:02] <kwwii> DaSkreech: I'm not buying an adaptor for a normal harddisk just for that
[06:02] <DaSkreech> Normal IDE?
[06:06] <manchicken> w00t!  It compiled!
[06:06] <manchicken> Now to see if it works ^_^
[06:07] <ryanakca> lol
[06:07] <DaSkreech> Anyone seen tackat?
[06:10] <manchicken> Grumble...
[06:11] <fdoving> manchicken: still hacking adept?
[06:13] <manchicken> Yeah.
[06:13] <manchicken> I've almost got this feature done.
[06:13] <manchicken> Just debugging now.
[06:13] <fdoving> cool.
[06:13] <manchicken> It's bad to load the image file for the icon each time ^_^
[06:13] <fdoving> tell me if you need testing.
[06:14] <manchicken> Will do.
[06:14] <manchicken> Well, the test case for this feature would be simple.
[06:14] <manchicken> The user story is "as a user, I should be able to quickly identify supported kubuntu packages because there will be a kubuntu logo next to all supported packages."
[06:15] <manchicken> So anything that's a main repo package should have a kubuntu logo.
[06:16] <fdoving> cool :)
[06:16] <fdoving> plans on redesigning the UI?
[06:19] <fdoving> are the software-propertites guys making it UI independent?
[06:19] <mhb> Riddell: error 403 for http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/vodafone-3g-datacard/wvdial.conf
[06:22] <manchicken> Gotta love it when alsa hangs the machine.
[06:23] <crimsun> ?
[06:23] <manchicken> I've got a crappy ATI onboard sound device.
[06:23] <manchicken> Causes alsa to hang sometimes.
[06:23] <crimsun> hda or ixp?
[06:23] <manchicken> ixp
[06:23] <crimsun> on 7.04?
[06:23] <manchicken> 6.10
[06:24] <crimsun> you'll most likely want to compile alsa-driver 1.0.14rc1
[06:24] <manchicken> Happened much more on 2.6.16 though.
[06:24] <manchicken> Oh?
[06:24] <manchicken> Is that on the feisty tree?
[06:24] <manchicken> I've got a chroot on feisty that I could snag it from.
[06:24] <crimsun> it's in 7.04's kernel
[06:24] <manchicken> Isn't 7.04 using 2.6.17?
[06:25] <manchicken> (never bothered to look)
[06:25] <crimsun> no, 7.04 uses 2.6.20-rc5 + patches
[06:25] <manchicken> Nice.
[06:25] <crimsun> 2.6.20-rc contains alsa-kernel 1.0.14rc1 + git
[06:25] <manchicken> Y'all should backport it ;)
[06:25] <manchicken> When ALSA hangs the machine, I only lose keyboard input.
[06:26] <manchicken> Everything else works fine.
[06:26] <crimsun> that would require my reviewing all of debian experimental's alsa-driver 1.0.14~rc1-1 source package
[06:26] <manchicken> So to get past it I just go into ksysguard and kill amarok, and bam.  Problem solved.
[06:26] <crimsun> then I'd have to merge it, test it and verify there are no regressions from the current alsa-driver source package
[06:26] <manchicken> Eh, it doesn't happen enough to warrant a terrible amount of work right now.
[06:27] <manchicken> It's easy to kill.
[06:27] <manchicken> It'll just make me long for Feisty more.
[06:27] <manchicken> But I can't risk destablizing my machine.
[06:27] <manchicken> I use it for work and for kubuntu hacking.
[06:46] <Mez> hmm - any main Devs here ?
[06:46] <crimsun> meaning core Kubuntu or ubuntu-core-dev ?
[06:47] <Mez> If so - can one of you update the katapult package and change the control file so that it lists the homepage as http://katapult.kde.org/
[06:47] <Mez> crimsun - main upload rights
[06:47] <crimsun> then yes, at least one is present and attentive (for now)
[06:47] <crimsun> are there additional changes that should be merged?
[06:47] <Mez> crimsun, see above :P
[06:47] <crimsun> small steps - pretend I don't know anything about katapault
[06:48] <crimsun> do you mean you need a new upstream version /and/ a URL change?
[06:48] <Mez> no - just a new 0ubuntuX version
[06:48] <Mez> it's just a simple control file change ;)
[06:49] <Mez> (i dont have access to make a debdiff - and I dont have upload rights to main)
[06:49] <Mez> oh, actually, it's merely a superficial thing ... I just got control back of the old website ;)
[06:49] <crimsun> if you feel it's utterly critical, yes, I'll do it
[06:50] <Mez> again - above ;)
[06:50] <crimsun> (waiting on update)
[06:50] <crimsun> I can't push the packets for apt-get source any faster...
[06:50] <Mez> lol
[06:51] <Mez> hey toma
[06:51] <toma> hi Mez, all
[06:57] <Riddell> manchicken: fixed
[06:57] <manchicken> Riddell: What's fixed?
[06:57] <Riddell> 403
[06:58] <manchicken> Which 403?
[06:58] <manchicken> Sorry, I'm not sure what we're talking about.
[07:01] <Riddell> 17:19 < mhb> Riddell: error 403 for http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/vodafone-3g-datacard/wvdial.conf
[07:01] <Riddell> oops, wrong m<tab> :)
[07:02] <manchicken> heh
[07:02] <manchicken> That's good.
[07:02] <manchicken> I was about to get very confused.
[07:02] <manchicken> Vodaphone doesn't really exist in the US ^_^
[07:24] <manchicken> Stupid alsa wouldn't come back that time.
[07:24] <crimsun> (everytime you mention alsa, a nick highlight triggers. It would be nice to get debug info.)
[07:25] <nixternal> lol
[07:25] <manchicken> I'm not quite sure how to obtain such information.
[07:26] <DaSkreech> crimsun: Wait Feisty ships with KVM?
[07:26] <crimsun> DaSkreech: yes
[07:26] <manchicken> Especially since every time it hangs I lose control of keyboard in X.
[07:26] <crimsun> manchicken: recompile alsa-driver 1.0.14rc1 using --with-debug=full and keep an ssh session open tailing /var/log/kern.log
[07:28] <DaSkreech> crimsun: Man Now I need to read up docs on it. is it enabled by default or just enablealbe?
[07:28] <crimsun> it's modularised.
[07:29] <manchicken> I don't believe I'm using that version...
[07:29] <manchicken> Dunno.
[07:29] <manchicken> The message I'm getting right now is "atiixp: codec reset timeout"
[07:30] <manchicken> If ATI would release the freakin' specs, stable drivers would be so much easier to obtain.
[07:30] <manchicken> That's okay.  It's a lesson learned for the next piece of hardware I buy.
[07:31] <DaSkreech> Now to go buy a AMD Socket AM processor
[07:41] <nixternal> manchicken: with adept, any chances of adding an "Add CD/DVD" button/function to the Manager so people can stop doing "sudo apt-cdrom add"?
[07:41] <nixternal> trying to remove cli dependency for that particular situation
[07:42] <fdoving> does people do that often?
[07:42] <nixternal> obvisously, because i keep seeing questions about it
[07:43] <fdoving> hope they are aware of the fact that they need the alternate cd for that to be usefull.
[07:43] <nixternal> well, it is useful with the dvd, but ya i don't see it being very useful with a normal cd anyways
[07:44] <fdoving> i can understand it for the dvd.
[07:44] <manchicken> We need a hit-list of things to be done to adept.
[07:45] <manchicken> It seems like you all are trying to turn me into the adept maintainer... heh
[07:47] <nixternal> oh, you mean we haven't yet? :)
[07:47] <manchicken> heh
[07:47] <yuriy> i thought you were turning yourself into one
[07:47] <seele> has anyone seen or compiled the grub interface yet?
[07:48] <manchicken> If I was going to completely take on a maintainer role, I'd pick a codebase that doesn't make me want to STAB furry woodland creatures.
[07:48] <Riddell> seele: I've not seen it
[07:48] <seele> hum.. ok.  just wondering how its going (ive pinged mhb a few times..)
[07:50] <manchicken> Yay!  Segfault!
[07:50] <manchicken> I killed it.
[07:50] <manchicken> Damn I'm good.
[07:52] <Riddell> seele: I'll mind and poke him when he's next around
[07:53] <seele> cool, thanks
[07:54] <Riddell> seele: by the way this is the kind of reaction we like http://atunu.blogspot.com/2007/01/secret-kde-application-launcher.html
[07:55] <seele> heh.. yeah, sorry about that.  it was a really bad week.
[07:55] <manchicken> Riddell: If nothing else, adept is helping me learn my STL. :P
[07:57] <yuriy> manchicken: ironic that he wrote adept because kynaptic made him want do to something like that
[07:58] <manchicken> It seems like alot of it is because of the apt libs though.  I'm not sure how to get away from that.
[08:00] <DaSkreech> man I hate kynaptic
[08:00] <manchicken> adept *does* work, and work well though.
[08:00] <manchicken> The only time I've heard of folks having trouble with it is when they're doing something weird.
[08:01] <Riddell> or the java packages
[08:01] <Riddell> I'll look at that tomorrow
[08:02] <manchicken> Yeah, the non-free stuff gets stupid sometimes.
[08:02] <manchicken> The solution to that could be to just not to install it ;)
[08:02] <manchicken> heh
[08:10] <manchicken> Is there some secret to turning on all debug symbols?
[08:10] <Riddell> --enable-debug=full ?
[08:11] <Tm_T> Riddell: SSssh, it's secret!
[08:11] <manchicken> On debuild?
[08:16] <Riddell> on ./configure
[08:16] <manchicken> Can you use ./configure and debuild together?
[08:17] <Riddell> well you can just compile it normally, without debuild
[08:17] <Riddell> but you would edit the variable in debian/rules to pass it to ./configure with debuild
[08:18] <manchicken> Okie dokie.
[08:19] <Riddell> I would just compile things normally while coding on them
[08:19] <manchicken> Now you tell me.
[08:19] <manchicken> Everybody kept telling me to use debuild for everything.
[08:20] <manchicken> To think of all the time wasted recompiling EVERYTHING.
[08:20] <manchicken> ^_^
[08:23] <Lure> manchicken: debuild -nc is your friend
[08:26] <Riddell> anyone telling you to use debuild should also tell you about debuild -nc
[08:28] <Lure> Riddell: quick guides (which I use at start) do not tell you such "details" ;-( - I found out about -nc after at least 30 kdebase rebuilds ;-)
[08:28] <manchicken> How do I get it to stop sending --disable-debug?
[08:34] <Riddell> manchicken: get what?
[08:35] <manchicken> Eh, nevermind on that one... now I just gotta get these debug messages in there.
[08:36] <manchicken> cerr is in iostream.h, right?


[08:37] <Riddell> kdDebug() is more usual in KDE
[08:37] <manchicken> Does kdDebug come in when you enable debug symbols?
[08:37] <Riddell> should happen regardless
[08:37] <manchicken> Just trying to figure out what's causing the segfault...
[08:37] <toma> manchicken: yep
[08:51] <GNUro> hello!
[09:00] <manchicken> Grumble...
[09:02] <manchicken> How do you run gdb with this stuff?
[09:07] <manchicken> Okay, I know that it's crashing on a call to QListView::clear(), but I don't know why...
[09:10] <toma> maybe the listview is already deleted?
[09:11] <nixternal> gmail has gone down the tubes here lately. it has been marking ubuntu mail as spam, mainly crimsun and jjesse of late
[09:15] <kwwii> re
[09:15] <DaSkreech> kwwii: Hey
[09:16] <kwwii> howdy DaSkreech
[09:16] <kwwii> soooo...was mache ich...edgy wieder installieren?
[09:16] <kwwii> iserm
[09:16] <kwwii> erm
[09:16] <kwwii> sorry
[09:16] <kwwii> germany
[09:16] <DaSkreech> I forget did you read the Haiku article?
[09:16] <kwwii> DaSkreech: yes, I read it
[09:16] <DaSkreech> What did you think of it :)
[09:19] <kwwii> sounds cool to me
[09:19] <DaSkreech> Yeah Thought so too.
[09:20] <DaSkreech> Kinda liked the idea of icons being so small they fit in the extra space of the inode for an executable :)
[09:23] <kwwii> well, I am not so big on small icons :-)
[09:25] <DaSkreech> Well they are SVG I think
[09:26] <kwwii> the icons look killer though
[09:27] <DaSkreech> Yeah. It's a great project :)
[09:28] <manchicken> SWEET!  I got it debugging.
[09:33] <Tm_T> Oxygen icons <3
[09:34] <Tm_T> Unfortunately cursor theme isn't ready yet.
[09:34] <kwwii> lol
[09:34] <kwwii> there is only so much we can do at a time
[09:34] <DaSkreech> Its in SVN though they made the folders for them
[09:34] <kwwii> believe me, we have done a *lot* these last few months
[09:34] <Tm_T> kwwii: I know, I actually used it lone arrow a moment.
[09:34] <DaSkreech>  Oxygen includes the Sound files?
[09:34] <kwwii> DaSkreech: well, yeah, but they are not final yet
[09:34] <Tm_T> kwwii: Oh I know, I keep svn up'ing it all the time. ;)
[09:35] <DaSkreech> Yeah Oxygen is right up there with strigi (nee Tenor) and solid :)
[09:36] <MrWGW> hi Kwwii
[09:36] <MrWGW> did you get my e-mail?
[09:37] <kwwii> MrWGW: yepp, sure did, I was going to answer it tonight
[09:37] <Tm_T> kwwii: Btw is widget buildable already? There was bunch of updates today.
[09:37] <kwwii> Tm_T: yepp, that should be the added cmake files
[09:37] <Tm_T> :)
[09:37] <Tm_T> Whee!
[09:37] <MrWGW> well I'm here now
[09:37] <Tm_T> MrWGW: Sure?
[09:37] <MrWGW> or actually, brb just a sec, I need to get a darn soda
[09:38] <Tm_T> ...exactly.
[09:38] <MrWGW> back
[09:38] <MrWGW> I had spoken with kwii yesterday, tm_t, about volunteering to do some of the UI design/artwork
[09:39] <Tm_T> Nice. :)
[09:40] <kwwii> MrWGW: seems like you have a lot of experience in branding, we could really use some help in that area
[09:40] <kwwii> in addition to real UI design and artwork
[09:40] <Tm_T> I'm still in middle of "what I should/can do and err, how", hm, now third year I think.
[09:41] <MrWGW> well you have an acceptable logo right now
[09:41] <Tm_T> :)
[09:41] <MrWGW> it makes sense for Kubuntu to share Ubuntu's stellar brand equity
[09:41] <MrWGW> Ubuntu is an absolute powerbrand, so it makes sense to tap that
[09:42] <Tm_T> I still think we need more "family brand" so people understand it's all the same base.
[09:43] <Tm_T> I hear a lot "Do I really have to uninstall Ubuntu to install Kubuntu?"
[09:43] <Tm_T> Still.
[09:44] <MrWGW> well what I'd do if I was in charge of Ubuntu's  branding strategy is move away from the current endorsed brand architecture towards a monolithic architecture
[09:44] <MrWGW> in which Kubuntu and Xubuntu would become Ubuntu/K and Ubuntu/X or the equivalent
[09:45] <MrWGW> for the MS style, maybe "KDE Edition"
[09:45] <MrWGW> but I'd leave Edubuntu, because Edubuntu offers a distinct experience
[09:45] <MrWGW> whereas Kubuntu and Xubuntu are essentially Ubuntu but with a different DE
[09:45] <MrWGW> I don't want to sound like I'm deprecating Kubuntu/Xubuntu, which I'm not, at all, but in the broader scheme of things I
[09:45] <MrWGW> I am not sure if it makes sense for them to be such completely seperate brands
[09:46] <kwwii> yeah, I have often said that if it is supposed to be one project there is little need for completely different branding
[09:46] <kwwii> but I guess it is almost too late for that without a major change
[09:47] <kwwii> but would Ubuntu/G be acceptable for the original gnome guys? cannot imagine so
[09:48] <MrWGW> it wouldn't have to be Ubuntu/G
[09:48] <MrWGW> it would just be Ubuntu
[09:48] <MrWGW> the basic, standard edition
[09:48] <MrWGW> Ubuntu/K or whatever it would be called would be a seperate sub-brand
[09:48] <MrWGW> but not a seperate complete brand
[09:48] <kwwii> well, I know that the differences between gnome, kde and xface would kinda prevent that
[09:48] <MrWGW> the branding strategy?
[09:48] <kwwii> there is very little overlap between those projects/communites
[09:49] <kwwii> nope, in the basic look and feel of each desktop until now
[09:49] <kwwii> I mean, gnome was always kind earthy tones
[09:49] <MrWGW> no, but if you install Kubuntu, I'd assume you can run KDE apps in GNOME?   For instance, in my SLED installation that I'm using now, I'm in GNOME
[09:49] <kwwii> and kde was always blue
[09:49] <MrWGW> but if I want Konqueror or another KDE app it loads without difficulty
[09:49] <kwwii> well, until novell bought suse that was not the case
[09:49] <kwwii> (although I always made a suse gnome theme too)
[09:50] <kwwii> btw. I worked for suse for 7 years doing all the design/artwork/marketing stuff
[09:50] <MrWGW> ahhh nice
[09:50] <MrWGW> Suse is one of my favorite distros
[09:50] <MrWGW> I love the design of the classic Suse KDE theme
[09:50] <manchicken> SuSE will be obsolete or forked shortly.
[09:50] <Tm_T> MrWGW: Go and suggest green theme to Kubuntu, please do.
[09:50] <apokryphos> manchicken: rubbish
[09:51] <manchicken> The Novell/Microsoft deal has some serious GPLv3 implications
[09:51] <MrWGW> I actually created a green color scheme for KDE in Suse, designed to match the annoying gecko
[09:51] <apokryphos> curious, considering Novell are also pushing for a GPLv3 and most talk about it is very speculative at the moment
[09:51] <manchicken> They won't be able to use GPLv3'ed programs unless they are able to extend that "indemnity" they got from Microsoft to all users of each program they distribute.
[09:51] <apokryphos> do you have a draft? If not, then what is it we're talking about here?
[09:51] <MrWGW> dang it man, I'm not even talking about Novell's ethics and you have to bring up the whole Microsoft/Novell thing?
[09:51] <kwwii> lol, I made the geeko too
[09:51] <MrWGW> DUDE, we've BEEN THERE
[09:51] <manchicken> I'm talking about the draft.
[09:51] <apokryphos> that's nonsense
[09:51] <MrWGW> ROFL kwwii
[09:52] <apokryphos> kwwii: wow, cool :)
[09:52] <kwwii> well, that was when I started and had little experience
[09:52] <manchicken> I'm just saying, Novell will either have to reneg on the MS deal, or get it applied to everybody, not just SuSE users.
[09:52] <apokryphos> kwwii: so what happened?
[09:52] <kwwii> later I would habe done anything to get rid of it
[09:52] <manchicken> If they can't, they'll be unable to legally use GPLv3'ed stuff.
[09:52] <MrWGW> well I find all mascots annoying, except Tux, but the geeko is well drawn
[09:52] <apokryphos> manchicken: way too speculative to have much meaning atm
[09:52] <MrWGW> Puffy the Pufferfish really gets on my nerves
[09:53] <MrWGW> Manchicken, this has been discussed ad nauseum, ad infinitum
[09:53] <MrWGW> but, as I argued on Slashdot, using SUSE or SLED does not turn you into a subhuman ogre
[09:53] <MrWGW> I use SLED and love it, one of my clients uses openSuse
[09:53] <MrWGW> it's a great product
[09:53] <apokryphos> agreed
[09:53] <MrWGW> SLED got a distro of the year award
[09:53] <manchicken> Neveer said it did
[09:54] <MrWGW> I see Ubuntu being the distro that really takes Linux to the consumer, but SLED could easily be the distro that replaces Windows on the enterprise desktop
[09:54] <manchicken> Just said there were legal problems with GPLv3 and Novell's MS deal.
[09:54] <kwwii> awards are nothing special
[09:54] <manchicken> Not talking ethics, talking license compatability.
[09:54] <apokryphos> SLED is only the real enterprise option at the moment I'd say
[09:54] <kwwii> they give them out on rotation
[09:54] <kwwii> heck, I got awards for stuff that I thought was crap
[09:54] <MrWGW> since Ubuntu seems content to primarily go after the consumer market and Ubuntu's extremely fast release cycle isn't really suitable for the large enterprise
[09:54] <manchicken> MrWGW: And using non-free software does turn you into a subhuman ogre ;)
[09:54] <MrWGW> no, it doesn't
[09:55] <kwwii> I do agree that a consolidated branding strategy would be more beneficial to all concerned
[09:55] <apokryphos> manchicken: then all ubuntu users are ogres then, since it contains plenty of non-oss stuff on the cd
[09:55] <MrWGW> I use Windows and a Mac...I don't mind paying for software, but I just happen to love Linux because I'm sick of XP and don't like Vista
[09:55] <kwwii> it would be good to see how we can draw things back together somehow
[09:56] <manchicken> I don't mind paying for software either.  I just mind the fascism. ^_^  But that's for #kubuntu-offtopic (eh Jucato, I'm being good)
[09:56] <allee> MrWGW: I like the idea of reworking branding.  I'm not happy with it, cause we miss the common DE independent name
[09:57] <kwwii> allee: lot's of people would agree with you on that
[09:57] <kwwii> just not the people who are religous about their desktop
[09:58] <Lure> kwwii: I also have that feeling
[09:58] <kwwii> note that having a common branding strategy does not mean just making kde look like gnome
[09:59] <MrWGW> well people who are religious about any aspect of this software IMO need to go take a cold shower
[09:59] <allee> kwii: it's only the naming scheme that I don't like
[09:59] <MrWGW> it's software, and darn good loveable software, but we don't need to worship it or obsess over it
[10:00] <manchicken> MrWGW: I apologize if my distaste for fascism offends you.
[10:00] <allee> it's just too complicated to speak with people about what common and what's only flavour
[10:02] <MrWGW> well
[10:02] <MrWGW> I had never thought of an open source OS being fascist, but alas
[10:03] <manchicken> Non-free software licensing is fascism.
[10:03] <kwwii> allee: yepp, but the naming scheme is kinda set, and it, in itself is what seperates things
[10:04] <apokryphos> allee: what specifically do you mean about the naming scheme?
[10:04] <allee> kwwii: set or not.  I'm not happy with it ;)   but I'll surive even when it's not changed. promised!
[10:05] <MrWGW> well regarding the whole naming thing, I would think it would be up to Canonical's senior management?
[10:05] <allee> apokryphos: ubuntu always implies gnome.  There's no name/brand for the common stuff.
[10:05] <kwwii> perhaps we can find a way to improve things
[10:05] <kwwii> allee: exactly
[10:05] <kwwii> well put
[10:05] <MrWGW> I would argue there needs to be a default, standard GNOME, but that the other DEs should essentially be endorsed and availible as add on/sub product brands
[10:05] <DaSkreech> Tm_T: I think that might be more unfamilarity with Debian/Ubuntu than branding
[10:06] <kwwii> when people say ubuntu it means gnome, not the project in general
 I hear a lot "Do I really have to uninstall Ubuntu to install Kubuntu?"
[10:06] <MrWGW> it's not that big a deal though IMO, your current branding system is not exactly broken
[10:06] <apokryphos> happened early on when people were thinking about the name. ubuntu-kde sounded bad
[10:06] <kwwii> as mark says "if we had named the whole thing ubuntu and the gnome desktop gubuntu things would be easier now
[10:06] <kwwii> "
[10:06] <MrWGW> well DaSkreech, I think with most Linuxes you can use multiple desktop environments
[10:06] <apokryphos> but perhaps it would've been a better idea. The problem/difference always was of course the different ISOs
[10:06] <apokryphos> which other distros don't do
[10:06] <MrWGW> I'm trying to pimp out this copy of SLED with every DE in existence, just for fun :)
[10:07] <apokryphos> there'd still be confusion if we had gubuntu :/
[10:08] <allee> kwwii: I agree.  Advantage of "MrWGW"'s ubuntu/whatver  is it emphazies the common ground.  Which is a good thing
[10:08] <apokryphos> "Ubuntu with KDE" and "Ubuntu with GNOME" would've been good
[10:08] <MrWGW> well I'm not sure if there's a need to destandardize GNOME with the Ubuntu distro, since the GNOME version is in all probability going to remain the center of attention
[10:08] <kwwii> allee: agreed
[10:09] <kwwii> too bad we can't find some common ground to start frp,
[10:09] <kwwii> from
[10:09] <MrWGW> it would be nice in a sense, perhaps, if the whole thing was regarded as a single distro and in the default install if you could just install whatever desktop you wanted
[10:10] <apokryphos> MrWGW: then it wouldn't adhere to the sacred rule of only one cd-install
[10:10] <MrWGW> ahh true
[10:10] <MrWGW> I'm used to the one-DVD install approach
[10:10] <apokryphos> MrWGW: I think they would do well to have a DVD with both of them, but that could be a bit of work
[10:11] <apokryphos> almost everyone has DVD writers these days, though of course not everyone
[10:11] <RadiantFire> a higher percentage have a DVD reader
[10:11] <RadiantFire> shipit + DVDs
[10:11] <allee> apokryphos: downloading what's needed to burn a DVD is the huge problem
[10:11] <apokryphos> nice to have a super kde+gnome and desktop+altnerate DVD
[10:11] <MrWGW> well in the US, you're probably right
[10:11] <allee> Mubuntu?  Monster ubuntu ;)
[10:11] <apokryphos> RadiantFire: yeah; I wonder how much more it costs to ship DVDs out instead of CDs these days
[10:12] <apokryphos> allee: true enough
[10:12] <MrWGW> well the shipping costs would be the same
[10:12] <MrWGW> the difference would be that DVDs cost somewhat more
[10:12] <RadiantFire> they are both stamped I assume, it can't be substantially more complex to stamp a DVD than a CD
[10:12] <RadiantFire> i mean, fundamentally, its the same technology
[10:12] <MrWGW> I have a client who is in the DVD business, I could ask him
[10:13] <MrWGW> though I really dislike a lot of HD-DVD and BluRay technology (in terms of the DRM), it's also exciting to think what you could do with one of those disks in terms of an OS install
[10:13] <MrWGW> I love the idea of a Linux distro that would embrace the concept of conspicuous consumption and that would ship with all known desktop environments and packages, in a four HD-DVD set
[10:13] <MrWGW> lol
[10:14] <kwwii> heck, with two or three dvds you could include everything
[10:14] <apokryphos> blank CDs and DVDs are the same price roughly here now
[10:14] <MrWGW> IIRC Mandriva Powerpack is a 3 DVD set
[10:14] <apokryphos> opensuse have an insane amount of packages on the dual-layer boxed retail dvd
[10:15] <MrWGW> *has, tsk tsk
[10:15] <MrWGW> since opensuse is a product, not an organization
[10:15] <RadiantFire> suse has always embraced the more is more approach... don't they install 3 webbrowsers by default
[10:15] <MrWGW> I'm being a grammar Nazi, err, fascist, so as to live up to manchicken's high expectactions of a Suse user
[10:15] <MrWGW> :-P
[10:16] <kwwii> lol
[10:16] <kwwii> I just cannot take anyone seriously with chicken in their nick
[10:16] <MrWGW> and yes it does, one of my clients bought that
[10:17] <manchicken> I have nothing against SuSE.  Just against deals designed to allow proprietary software companies to sue people who wrote their own software.
[10:17] <manchicken> I used SuSE up until that deal.
[10:18] <kwwii> dude, novell is american...where would america be without all the lawsuits
[10:18] <MrWGW> then you admit it, you do have a problem with SuSE, otherwise you wouldn't let an ill-informed deal cause you to switch distros
[10:18] <MrWGW> I really do not believe Novell intended to cause any problems with that deal, and I am not at all convinced that the deal does any harm to the Linux community
[10:18] <RadiantFire> I remember reading an opinion somewhere that the deal may also have been motivated by fear of all the IP that Novell holds
[10:18] <MrWGW> Microsoft has offered to do the same deal with anyone else, its just that the rest of the distros hate their guts too much
[10:18] <RadiantFire> from the Netware days
[10:19] <MrWGW> if MS sues Linux users, OSI will sue MS
[10:19] <manchicken> I won't use a distro that will be out of date once GNU releases all of its new versions under a license incompatible with SuSE.
[10:19] <MrWGW> the really big risk is if Red Hat gets that DRM patent and goes on the offensive
[10:19] <MrWGW> but I see Red Hat using its DRM patent defensively in the event of a Microsoft lawsuit
[10:19] <RadiantFire> DRM patent?
[10:19] <manchicken> When SuSE forks to allow that compatability back, maybe I'll reconsider SuSE.
[10:19] <MrWGW> earlier today Slashdot reported a senior Red Hat engineer filed for a patent on DRM
[10:20] <RadiantFire> thats fun
[10:20] <MrWGW> yes it is
[10:20] <MrWGW> I need to start patenting stuff
[10:20] <MrWGW> I think I'll patent start menus
[10:20] <RadiantFire> too late
[10:20] <MrWGW> I'll patent black and turqouise start menus
[10:20] <MrWGW> mauhaha
[10:20] <manchicken> Software patents shouldn't be allowed in the first place.
[10:20] <MrWGW> or patent black and turqoise OSes in general, then Vista would really be in trouble
[10:21] <RadiantFire> patent 9 button log out menus
[10:21] <MrWGW> manchicken, are you just going to sit there and repeat verbatim every mindless statement spewed by Linux fanboys on Slashdot since 1995?
[10:21] <MrWGW> or 1998 rather
[10:21] <MrWGW> ROFL
[10:22] <MrWGW> that would also cause Vista some problems
[10:22] <manchicken> MrWGW: Wow.  You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
[10:22] <manchicken> Good day sir.
[10:22] <MrWGW> that would also be a great way to force Microsoft to improve the design of its products, just patent each design aspect you don't like, then sue Microsoft for infringement and force them to change git
[10:22] <MrWGW> you could make Windows completely customizeable
[10:22] <RadiantFire> i can see it now "Microsoft releases Hot-Fix to remove patent offending log out menu. Hapless computer users are now forced to leae their computers on all the time
[10:23] <MrWGW> anyway, kwwii, are you still here?
[10:25] <kwwii> yepp
[10:26] <kwwii> sorry, had to talk to my wife
[10:26] <MrWGW> so what is the next step for me in terms of actually starting work?
[10:28] <kwwii> well, I'll start working on the next stuff for kubuntu now...so, I guess stay in contact, create some ideas, and help us push this stuff forward
[10:28] <kwwii> I assume that we will create a design somewhat based on the stuff from edgy, as there is little time left
[10:28] <MrWGW> perfect
[10:28] <kwwii> but if it is doable and there is a good reason to do so, we can change whatever we want
[10:28] <MrWGW> I need to get edgy and Kubuntu downloaded and installed, which I will do later today
[10:29] <kwwii> cool, good idea
[10:29] <MrWGW> btw, is the pre-Edgy artwork still in the default Edgy install?
[10:29] <kwwii> nope
[10:29] <kwwii> but believe me, the dapper artwork was not soo god
[10:29] <kwwii> erm
[10:29] <kwwii> good
[10:29] <MrWGW> annoying, I installed dapper and it had older artwork
[10:29] <kwwii> and I made the dapper stuff, so I can say that
[10:29] <MrWGW> I'm talking about Ubuntu
[10:29] <MrWGW> just to be clear
[10:29] <MrWGW> the GNOME one
[10:30] <kwwii> nope, kubuntu has only its own stuff
[10:30] <kwwii> nothing with gnome stuff
[10:30] <kwwii> so you might want to look at ubuntu edgy as well, although the ubuntu dapper stuff was bettter, in my opinion, than the edgy stuff
[10:30] <MrWGW> is the dapper stuff still in edgy, in Ubuntu, though?
[10:31] <MrWGW> if not, I'll want to install both
[10:31] <MrWGW> which means using two VMs rather than one, but what the heck
[10:31] <MrWGW> gigabytes are there to be used
[10:31] <kwwii> well, not really, the edgy stuff is a bit different
[10:31] <kwwii> so if you want the real thing, check dapper, not edgy
[10:32] <MrWGW> I think I also want to put Linux on my mac Mini, and that would be an ideal place for Ubuntu, but whatever distro that goes as the base distro on any of my systems needs to support VMWare Server
[10:32] <kwwii> although the edgy stuff is a bit different in some places
[10:32] <MrWGW> brb 1 sec
[10:34] <MrWGW> back
[10:34] <yuriy> kwwii: i hope you base it on the edgy stuff not dapper.  i think edgy looks much better. just my personal preference though.
[10:34] <Lure> yuriy: he was talking about ubuntu
[10:35] <Lure> yuriy: for kubuntu we all agree (I think)that edgy was much better
[10:35] <kwwii> yuriy: Lure is right
[10:35] <kwwii> if we base feisty kubuntu on anything, then edgy
[10:35] <kwwii> I made the dapper stuff and it was crap
[10:35] <kwwii> ;-)
[10:35] <kwwii> believe me, I made it
[10:36] <MrWGW> is there any place to download the Ubuntu-Gnome Dapper stuff and install it into Edgy?
[10:36] <kwwii> although I got several emails from devs saying that edgy was shit and dapper was great!
[10:36] <rdorsch> Lure: just send you the powermanager output
[10:36] <kwwii> hehe, that'll teach you to not listen to devs about artwork
[10:36] <Lure> rdorsch: ok, checking now...
[10:36] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/poweredby.jpg
[10:36] <yuriy> Lure: oh ok, that got me pretty confused
[10:36] <MrWGW> well I think the reason why so many OSS projects have terrible UIs is due to excessive developer input
[10:36] <nixternal> no more windows sticker here
[10:37] <DaSkreech> MrWGW: Software probably is religion by my definition :-)
[10:37] <MrWGW> oh horrors
[10:38] <MrWGW> I was just reading on Slashdot
[10:38] <MrWGW> about a woman who died in a Wii-related competition "Hold your wee for wii"
[10:38] <MrWGW> sickening
[10:38] <yuriy> whoa does digikam not support ioslaves
[10:39] <Lure> rdorsch: ok, it looks like problem is debian specific - some operations are not allowed on debian, so adding some try/except clauses could help here
[10:39] <MrWGW> it's religion only if you're a stupid fanboy IMo
[10:39] <kwwii> MrWGW: yeah, I read that earlier today
[10:40] <kwwii> amazing how stupid people can be
[10:40] <kwwii> she did it for her kid too
[10:40] <MrWGW> the world is so perverse it horrifies me
[10:40] <yuriy> i kept my windows sticker: http://www.yktech.us/kubuntusticker.jpg
[10:40] <kwwii> dying of water
[10:40] <kwwii> scary
[10:40] <nixternal> /. is 90% science fiction
[10:40] <yuriy> i'm kind of annoyed i just had to copy/paste to save that...
[10:40] <allee> yuriy: I assume you mean kipi-plugins not digikam.
[10:40] <kwwii> no, no, she drank too much water
[10:40] <kwwii> it really can happen
[10:40] <yuriy> allee: yeah i guess
[10:40] <Lure> rdorsch: I will make this a bit more robust, but brightness (and probably some other stuff) will still not work on debian
[10:41] <kwwii> yuriy: I have that sticker on my mac
[10:41] <kwwii> everyone loves it
[10:41] <yuriy> allee: the image editor in digikam, i couldn't save to fish:/
[10:41] <rdorsch> Lure: I am on a call now....
[10:41] <yuriy> allee: known bug?
[10:41] <MrWGW> anyway Kwii, is there any convenient way to download the ubuntu GNOME artwork from Dapper into Edgy?
[10:41] <kwwii> MrWGW: I do not think so, although I really do not know
[10:41] <allee> yuriy: save as should work. Otherwise -> bug
[10:41] <kwwii> I doubt it
[10:42] <kwwii> I guess a dev could answer that better :-)
[10:42] <nixternal> MrWGW: find out what version the dapper artwork is (apt-cache show ubuntu-artwork) and then download it from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ubuntu-artwork/
[10:42] <nixternal> the .deb that is
[10:42] <nixternal> then 'sudo dpkg -i <filename>.deb'
[10:43] <MrWGW> ah perfect
[10:43] <nixternal> not recommended by man due to dependency issues, but some tweaking and some 'sudo apt-get -f install" usually fix it :)
[10:43] <MrWGW> and is there any way to get the artwork that Shuttleworth infamously rejected?
[10:43] <nixternal> s/man/many
[10:43] <nixternal> if it is in the repos yes, but i don't think it is
[10:43] <yuriy> allee: i also had a problem importing RAW, is that kipi-plugins too?
[10:44] <nixternal> yuriy: forbidden :)
[10:44] <nixternal> i wanted to see the pic
[10:44] <allee> yuriy: correction digikam image editor is digikam and digikamimageplugins.
[10:44] <MrWGW> also I assume, it's not possible to install Kubuntu Edgy on an Ubuntu Dapper system?
[10:44] <nixternal> nope
[10:45] <MrWGW> dang
[10:45] <MrWGW> ah well
[10:45] <MrWGW> and what is the release date for Feisty?
[10:45] <allee> yuriy: raw is digikam but afaik some kipi-plugins can not handle raw too
[10:45] <nixternal> 04-2007
[10:45] <nixternal> ;p
[10:45] <MrWGW> ok
[10:45] <allee> yuriy: but raw support in kipi-plugins not not as good as in digikam yet
[10:47] <ryanakca> yuriy: You don't have permission to access /~ykozlov//kubuntusticker.jpg on this server.
[10:48] <yuriy> allee: ok now i'm confused... Are there two different tools to do it? When in Digikam i go to Tools>Raw Image Converter, what is that?
[10:48] <yuriy> nixternal,ryanacka: yeah.. umm.. hmm.. this is rather disturbing
[10:49] <allee> yuriy: tools is kipi-plugins
[10:50] <allee> yuriy: when you click on a thumbnail then digikam's image editor starts.  The editor uses digikamimageplugins not kipi-plugins
[10:50] <yuriy> nixternal,ryanacka: fixed. no clue why it didn't get read permissions
[10:50] <rdorsch> Lure: what is the brightness stuff supposed to do?
[10:51] <Lure> rdorsch: when you switch to battery mode, we reduce the brightness level to battery setting
[10:51] <allee> yuriy: kipi-plugins operate on (list of) files.  digikam imageplugins operate on the _one_ image in memory of the editor
[10:51] <Lure> rdorsch: ubuntu has different security settings for hal/dbus which allow console apps to perform more operations than on debian
[10:52] <Lure> rdorsch: it may be that you only need to add your user to some group (plugdev or powersomething)
[10:52] <ryanakca> yuriy: kk, thanks... hmm... *pokes his internet*
[10:52] <rdorsch> Lure: good point, let me check
[10:53] <kwwii> ok, about time for bed here, gotta finish a few things first...I am semi afk
[10:53] <yuriy> allee: ok so then you can save the raw as jpg while in the editor.. now i get it.  rather unintuitive to have two different ways to do it in one application, especially when one of them doesn't seem to work
[10:54] <rdorsch> Lure: there is a plugdev. Also messagebus. Can I check which group is the right one?
[10:54] <rdorsch> Lure: Is that a certain executable which has these permissions?
[10:55] <yuriy> I started using digikam about 2 weeks ago, and i feel like having a bug filing spree
[10:55] <allee> yuriy: many kipi-plugins can work on several images that something image editor can't.
[10:55] <Lure> rdorsch: no, dbus/hal is configured to use it for security checks....
[10:56] <Lure> rdorsch: can you try the patch from bug 77091
[10:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77091 in guidance "The AC adapter has been unplugged, switching to battery mode" [Unknown,Unknown]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77091
[10:56] <allee> yuriy: if there's really a duplication, I can ping upstream to disable it by default or we just do it in kubuntu
[10:56] <yuriy> allee: yeah, i understand. i think raw converter is actually the only one that's like this: there is a (single) option in the tools menu in addition to the batch process
[10:58] <allee> yuriy: ah, right.  that from old times when digikam editor could not handle raws
[10:58] <Lure> rdorsch: check /etc/dbus-1/system.d/hal.conf
[10:58] <manchicken> mmm... emacs....
[10:59] <Lure> rdorsch: there is powerdev group (on ubuntu)
[10:59] <Lure> rdorsch: adding your user to it should cure it
[11:09] <MrWGW> my preference in text editors is for Note Tab, which has a modern UI, has a fully functional free as in beer version, and that is a lot of fun
[11:09] <MrWGW> I use it to hack saved games in Windows
[11:10] <MrWGW> there is one game I enjoy that saves games in a non-binary format
[11:10] <MrWGW> which allows you to do...interesting...things
[11:10] <MrWGW> sadly, it is just for Windows :(
[11:17] <rdorsch> Lure: I found plugdev and powerdev
[11:18] <Lure> rdorsch: so what does "id" command return - are you member of any of these?
[11:19] <manchicken> MrWGW: I just haven't been able to find a development environment that gives me more flexibility than emacs.  Particularly with things like debuggers, etc.
[11:20] <rdorsch> Lure: powerdev seem to be responsible for org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.LaptopPanel
[11:21] <manchicken> There are a lot of good editors out there... but Emacs works best with the variety of languages I use, variety of build environments I use, and variety of machines I use.
[11:23] <sebas> rdorsch: Ah, you're here
[11:24] <sebas> I've just sent you a patch
[11:25] <kwwii> vi is the shit
[11:25] <kwwii> :p
[11:25] <sebas> Is your issue fixed with this additional group? (Though I still think it shouldn't crash, but spit a warning and do the right thing)
[11:25] <sebas> kwwii: You're using that for svg editing? :)
[11:26] <kwwii> lol, sometimes
[11:27] <Lure> kwwii: that is why konqueror cannot display your svg's ;-)
[11:28] <kwwii> :p
[11:28] <kwwii> no, that is because inkscape had a major bug
[11:28] <Lure> kwwii: really, powermanager stuff cannot be shown in konqueror, but they work fine in inkscape
[11:28] <kwwii> adding an extra space in the definition
[11:28] <Lure> kwwii: ok, that was it
[11:29] <kwwii> Lure: I need to fix that
[11:29] <kwwii> it is because I build the latest version of inkscape
[11:29] <manchicken> SWEET!!!!
[11:29] <manchicken> I got the kubuntu logo in adept.
[11:29] <manchicken> Now I just gotta get it conditional.
[11:29] <Lure> sebas: what do you think about pykde3->pyqt4 migration for powermanager? do we want to go there?
[11:29] <Mez> kwwii: kinda scary - I used to see you as "k world war 2" now I see you as "kay double you wee"
[11:30] <kwwii> lol
[11:30] <sebas> Lure: I'd say let's wait for PyKDE4
[11:30] <sebas> We really lose a lot otherwise
[11:30] <kwwii> how many people have asked me why my nick is k world war !!
[11:30] <kwwii> 2
[11:30] <kwwii> when my name is Kenneth Wesley Wimer II
[11:30] <sebas> And I think we can better stabilise for Feisty and try porting as soon as Pykde4 is there
[11:30] <kwwii> ie. KWWII
[11:30] <Lure> sebas: lots of work for questionable gain - Riddell would like to get rid of polling though
[11:31] <sebas> Yeah, me too. But I don't want Qt4 only
[11:31] <Mez> kwwii - it's hjust how it reads ;)
[11:31] <sebas> And I think we would add quite some testing burden, whereas we can have a really stable powermanager for Feisty
[11:31] <kwwii> hehe, only for religous desktop people
[11:31] <Lure> sebas: I will prototype qt4 event handling anyway - just to confirm it works now
[11:31] <sebas> I understand the concern that porting stuff now helps with the big porting effort for KDE4, but I still think it's not worth it yet.
[11:32] <Lure> sebas: true that - events could make it regress
[11:32] <sebas> Yeah, that's a good thing.
[11:32] <sebas> Having some example code makes porting way easier
[11:41] <kwwii> Mez: it only reads like that for desktop religous people
[11:41] <rdorsch> Lure: I restart KDE to get the powerdev group permission. To check if that fixes the root cause. Then I apply you patches.
[11:41] <Mez> kwwii - nope - I'm not either
[11:42] <Lure> rdorsch: thanks - mine or sebas's patch (or both ;-) should help
[11:42] <Lure> rdorsch: mine just makes it robust to failure, sebas just ensure that everything is still done even if brightness fails
[11:47] <sebas> Lure: You can check yours in anyway, stability is good (and it shouldn't crash, but warn)
[11:47] <Lure> sebas: just did it
[11:47] <sebas> Thanks
[11:48] <ryanakca> yuriy: I like :)
[11:49] <manchicken> Riddell: Check this out -- http://www.notsosoft.net/snapshot5.png
[11:51] <Lure> sebas: talking about robustness - I think I know what may cause bug 77623
[11:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77623 in kde-guidance "feisty kubuntu - laptop auto-suspends when on ac power even though set to do so only when on battery" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77623
[11:51] <Lure> sebas: when testing actions (suspend/hibernate...), I changed call to suspend/resume with simple print
[11:52] <Lure> sebas: and when idle condition was met, I got several prints in a row
[11:52] <sebas> Makes sense.
[11:52] <Lure> sebas: I suspect that several calls of suspend/hibernate are scheduled and may cause immediate suspend again after resume
[11:53] <Lure> sebas: we probably need to reset lastidle or something just before doing the action
[11:53] <sebas> My hibernate script just doesn't if the last hibernate is less than 3 sec old.
[11:53] <sebas> Or suspend, for that matter.
[11:53] <sebas> So it's something I would not see
[11:53] <sebas> Yes, that's the issue I was talking about.
[11:53] <sebas> I'll tackle that shortly
[11:53] <Lure> sebas: I will look for proper fix tommorow probably - I am just to tired now
[11:53] <sebas> (Not today though)
[11:53] <sebas> Hehe :)
[11:54] <sebas> Are you in Europe?
[11:54] <Lure> ;-) - we agree on this
[11:54] <Lure> sebas: yep, Slovenia
[11:54] <sebas> Ah :)
[11:54] <Lure> but tommorow is in 5 minutes ;-)
[11:54] <sebas> Then we're in the same timezone :P
[11:54] <sebas> Heh, right. but for me tomorrow is usually "after sleeping"
[11:55] <rdorsch> Lure: powerdev did not fix the root cause. Your fix though fixes the problem.
[11:56] <Lure> rdorsch: would be still interesting to know how to enable brighntess controls on debian
[11:56] <manchicken> Now I've gotta get this image into the package.
[11:56] <Lure> rdorsch: ubuntu has "on_console" policy which means that desktop user can control this w/o problems
[11:57] <Lure> rdorsch: good to know that my fix helps - this closes one ubuntu bug too, which I had no clue before your e-mail came around ;-)
[11:57] <sebas> rdorsch: Do you have both patches applied?
[11:57] <Lure> rdorsch: I will still wait for reporters to see if they have same/similar root cause as you.
[12:00] <rdorsch> I don't know if Debian has a similar on_console policy. I could try to post tonight on debian-devel to find the right contact.
[12:00] <rdorsch> sebas: I have only applied Lures patch.
[12:01] <rdorsch> sebas: I can try yours if it has value for you to have that information.
[12:01] <Lure> rdorsch: on_console is ubuntu specific - we have special patch to add this
[12:01] <rdorsch> Lure: I send an email to the Debian BTS such that other and the maintainer know the fix.
[12:02] <Lure> rdorsch: thanks
[12:02] <rdorsch> Lure: I have seen on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktopHowTo that the login managers should add users to all groups (though this is sarge, i.e. quite old).
[12:03] <rdorsch> Lure: thank you for the immediate fix.
[12:03] <rdorsch> Lure: working on battery is now much more fun again :-)
[12:05] <Lure> rdorsch: ;-)
[12:08] <Lure> ok, time for bed -> nite all
[12:10] <kwwii> niight all
[12:10] <Lure> Riddell: btw, I see your new language buttons in Regional & Language, but qt-language-selector is broken (python import problem) :-(
[12:11] <Lure> Riddell: it may be may broken system (all latest python greatness) ;-)
[12:12] <sebas> rdorsch: If it's not too much work,I'd like to know if it works well with this patch (it replaces the crash with a warning)
[12:14] <manchicken> Argh... now I've gotta package things....
[12:14] <manchicken> My least favorite part.