[01:25] <nixternal> wow, the switching guide for kubuntu is in, let's say, uber nasty condition
[01:26] <mdke> nixternal: good job on getting it to build etc
[01:26] <mdke> what's wrong with it?
[01:26] <Admiral_Chicago> everything
[01:26] <mdke> I haven't read all of the Ubuntu one, but it looks rather good
[01:26] <nixternal> well the info there is OK, but there is so much not there
[01:26] <nixternal> and none of it ever validated, which is beyond me
[01:26] <mdke> does it validate now?
[01:26] <nixternal> oh ya, validates and builds seperately and with tbh
[01:27] <Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: if you want, mail me if you need me to help / how to help
[01:27] <mdke> good job
[01:27] <Admiral_Chicago> i don't know about docbooks/xml but I can try
[01:27] <mdke> I'm exchanging forum PMs with a forum member who is interested in contributing too
[01:27] <nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: it is so easy actually
[01:27] <nixternal> but i will take plain test right about now
[01:27] <nixternal> awesome mdke
[01:27] <mdke> and we should get hold of Phil Bull again and give him svn access
[01:27] <nixternal> the more the merrier for sure this time around
[01:27] <mdke> he contributed loads to that guide
[01:28] <nixternal> most definitely
[01:28] <nixternal> he did the entire switching guide iirc
[01:28] <nixternal> and he did it fast
[01:28] <mdke> can you catch up with him for me and ask him if he's interested in doing a bit more?
[01:28] <nixternal> sure
[01:28] <mdke> rock
[01:28] <mdke> let's get that baby back on the road
[01:28] <nixternal> i just recently spoke with him, and if he isn't busy i am sure he will be more than happy
[01:29] <mdke> he applied for the wikiteam yesterday, so he's obviously around
[01:29] <nixternal> oh sweet. i will fire him and email now then
[01:29] <mpt> hehe
[01:29] <nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: ^^ re: wiki team! or are you already on there? mr. want-to-do-it-all :)
[01:30] <nixternal> to many short nicks starting with m
[01:30] <mpt> yay, group hug
[01:30] <nixternal> you guys make my work easy :)
[01:30] <nixternal> awesome work on that glossary btw
[01:32] <mpt> It's not reeeeeally a glossary
[01:32] <mpt> It's not "what does this mean"
[01:32] <mpt> but more "Where do I find the equivalent to _____"
[01:32] <mpt> but thanks :-)
[01:33] <mpt> Is anyone here running Edgy?
[01:33] <mpt> er, Feisty, I mean
[01:33] <mdke> yeah
[01:34] <mpt> For my next trick, I'll need a screenshot of a vanilla Feisty desktop
[01:34] <mpt> (ok, who am I kidding, all Ubuntu desktops are chocolate, but as vanilla as possible)
[01:35] <NewUnit16> anyone have any experience with instanbul?
[01:35] <mpt> with the default panel setup, default background, and the help window open
[01:35] <tonyyarusso> NewUnit16: A little bit.  I found it less than optimal.
[01:36] <mdke> mpt: meh, ok. Reason?
[01:38] <mpt> mdke, so I can add lots of numbered circles to it for a "this is how the Ubuntu desktop works" page for the "New to Ubuntu 7.04?" section
[01:38] <nixternal> doesn't the current feisty desktop look the same as the edgy desktop? or has the GNOME side been rocking out artwork?
[01:38] <mpt> If it does, that makes life easier, I can do it myself
[01:38] <mpt> but I don't know
[01:38] <nixternal> if im not mistaken, Herd1 definitely looked the same
[01:39] <mpt> For example, is Deskbar included? If so, does it have a panel applet by default? If not, why not? etc
[01:39] <nixternal> what i normally do with images, is put in <!--placeholders--> and then the last week before freeze create them so they are as close as possible to the finished product
[01:40] <mpt> I think in this particular case, the risk of a slightly-out-of-date image would be better than the risk of none at all
[01:40] <nixternal> very true
[01:41] <mdke> mpt: the screenshot program is crashing...
[01:41] <mdke> but certainly, the artwork will change
[01:41] <mpt> ok
[01:41] <mpt> Meanwhile, we really need to hide the contents panel for all our standalone pages
[01:42] <mpt> because they all have only one section
[01:42] <mpt> grrr
[01:43] <nixternal> lol
[01:43] <mpt> alias br=bzr
[01:43] <mpt> That's that dealt with ;-)
[01:45] <mdke> mpt: http://mdke.org/tmp/default.png
[01:45] <mdke> I installed the aptly named "scrot" instead of gnome-screenshot
[01:45] <mpt> scrot? um ...
[01:46] <mdke> great name
[01:46] <mpt> Oh, wow, I'd forgotten about the Big Red Pimple in the top right corner :-(
[01:46] <mdke> me too
[01:47] <mdke> that is there simply to save Mark from adding it to his panel
[01:47] <mdke> :)
[01:47] <mpt> The power button on his laptop broke off, perhaps
[01:47] <mpt> goodnight mdke :-)
[01:47] <mdke> night
[01:48] <mpt> and thanks for the screenshot
[04:15] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: you around? Connection problems lately?
[04:18] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: He's not at home, and apparently Alberta's internet is lacking.
[04:19] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: around yes
[04:19] <Burgundavia> connection problems, intermittant wireless
[04:22] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: ah
[04:53] <nixternal> argh, i hate when i make a mistake in the debian/control file and it gets all the way to the end of compiling and building, and then errors out :)
[04:53] <crimsun> must be that silly kate thing.
[04:57] <nixternal> vi
[04:57] <nixternal> dh_install on a file that I removed from the repos
[04:57] <crimsun> nvi or vim? ;)
[04:57] <nixternal> vim-full
[04:58] <crimsun> culprit!
[04:58] <nixternal> hehe
[04:58] <nixternal> didn't hit dd on that line :)
[05:08] <tonyyarusso> By "doc wiki" and "main wiki" I assume we mean w.u.c and h.u.c respectively?  (reading CC minutes)
[05:15] <nixternal> correct
[05:21] <tonyyarusso> Superscript wiki markup?
[05:24] <coreyt> Weird default on xchat starting the first time.. had the member list collapsed :) thought I was the only one here.
[05:26] <coreyt> Hello I'm interested in helping write video tutorials for Ubuntu.  Which app combo works best to produce them in a .swf format for Edgy  Looking for user experiences rather than the few lists I came across.
[05:30] <nixternal> coreyt: popey would be the best person to talk to, but i am guessing he is probably asleep at this time (UK i believe)
[05:31] <nixternal> tonyyarusso: 5^^th^^ i believe
[05:31] <coreyt> thanks, and yeah it's really late there.
[05:31] <tonyyarusso> nixternal: Funny, that's totally what I did.
[05:31] <nixternal> hrmm
[05:32] <nixternal> 5^th^
[05:32] <nixternal> it is just one it seems
[05:32] <coreyt> I've got the  Jan 2007 issue of Linux Journal that talks about various ways to do it.  Just upgraded from Dapper to Edgy and am still redoing things I had done to dapper.
[05:32] <tonyyarusso> nixternal: ah
[05:32] <nixternal> ya, i have never had much luck with screencasting personally
[05:33] <coreyt> From what I was able to read it sounds like having a fast machine might be required.
[05:35] <coreyt> I've been toying around with taking some of the tips I have gathered for everyday tasks on my ubuntutips site and doing them in video and then I saw this project on digg.
[05:35] <coreyt> Only problem was it's probably bandwidth intensive :)
[05:37] <coreyt> Anywho it's late for me here too so I'm gonna hit the sack and look up this popey person in the AM.  Getting iced in at the house as we speak and me and the wife both can work from home.
[05:38] <coreyt> Just hope she does not want to use my Linux box for VPN.  Her mac gives her trouble sometimes lol.  Seems the Ubuntu VNC client is more compatible than the crap M$ wrote for the mac.
[05:38] <coreyt> l8r
[05:40] <Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: not on the wiki team, I'll look it up a tomorrow, a bit tired today. going to bed soon now i think
[08:16] <nixternal> Burgundavia or Madpilot, if you have some time, would it be possible to add freddymartinez9 (aka Admiral_Chicago) to the Wiki Team? he knows his way around the wiki and understands a majority of the tags
[08:16] <Burgundavia> just got an email from him
[08:16] <Burgundavia> will do right now
[08:17] <nixternal> cool Burgundavia, didn't know your status as you have been in and out this evening
[08:17] <Burgundavia> wireless connections issues and crashing irc clients
[08:17] <Admiral_Chicago> :)
[08:17] <nixternal> plus if he messes anything up i can handle him personally :)
[08:17] <nixternal> i trust him enough though to edit the ubuntu-chicago site
[09:26] <mdke> nixternal: using html is cheating!
[09:28] <mdke> nixternal: ah, you changed back, that's better! :)
[04:10] <nixternal> mdke: hehe ya, i cheated, and then said the hell with it and went back to xml :) thanks for the typo fixes as well
[04:11] <nixternal> wo0t. Riddell uploaded the kubuntu-docs package, so now hopefully people will bug report some issues instead of waiting until release :)
[04:54] <TomHoward> hello
[07:05] <coreyt> Hi, I run Ubuntutips.org and was wanting to help as part of the video documentation/how-to team.  I've got a setup that can make and upload videos quickly and I write MOP's/documentation at work as well.
[07:05] <coreyt> brb fixing  sandwich
[07:24] <nixternal> mmm, sammich
[07:25] <nixternal> coreyt: popey is the person you would want to talk to, and once he gets around he will notice the highlight of his name and say hello im sure :)
[07:25] <popey> ahh, just the person
[07:25] <popey> hello coreyt
[07:25] <nixternal> hehe
[07:25] <nixternal> told ya
[07:26] <popey> coreyt: can you write up how you make your screencats?
[07:27] <popey> coreyt: is there a problem with ubuntutips.org? looks like www. doesn't resolve which may be why there is no stylesheet
[07:59] <mdke> coreyt: yes, we'd like you to help out as part of the docteam. if you need any help with how to get involved, see the link in the topic
[09:02] <coreyt> sorry
[09:02] <coreyt> big sandwich
[09:03] <coreyt> popey I have not made a screencast yet.  There's some windows tools I used to use for videogames, for Linux I have a bunch of suggestions from publications and such.
[09:04] <mdke> coreyt: you should look at the screencast team guide, there is a specific methodology used: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts
[09:04] <coreyt> Someone said the www in ubuntutips.org does not resolve?
[09:05] <mdke> that's correct
[09:05] <coreyt> Strange
[09:05] <nixternal> works for me
[09:05] <coreyt> What DNS server?
[09:05] <nixternal> comcast
[09:06] <nixternal> my lord the dcc attacks today are crazy
[09:06] <coreyt> no for the one that did not work
[09:06] <nixternal> oh
[09:06] <nixternal> hehe
[09:07] <mdke> works here now, didn't earlier
[09:07] <mdke> coreyt: was there a specific reason you decided to front your own website rather than contributing directly to the community Ubuntu wiki? I'd like to know
[09:07] <coreyt> I wonder if some dns servers have my old ip cached until someone accesses the website and then it refreshes out.
[09:08] <coreyt> No specific reason, I like to build servers and play around with them.   It's in no way saying that I dont like the ubuntu documentation
[09:08] <coreyt> Though anytime I have come across a problem if I google it, I usually find it on a blog.
[09:09] <mdke> that's a shame
[09:10] <coreyt> I'm a top 10 return for the search "Ubuntu Tips", none of the top 10 returns go to the documenatation I think
[09:10] <coreyt> I could help fix that.
[09:10] <mdke> by adding the word "tips"? :p
[09:11] <coreyt> Strangely enough that did not work for me.
[09:12] <coreyt> I used to be somewhere around 40something
[09:12] <mdke> I mean, naturally "ubuntu tips" wouldn't drag up the documentation site, because the word "tips" doesn't appear
[09:13] <coreyt> How about the top 10 problems someone searches for a way to fix it.
[09:13] <coreyt> Naturally that'd be a weird meta tag
[09:14] <mdke> "ubuntu help" and "ubuntu documentation" do the trick
[09:15] <coreyt> Yep, what about Ubuntu Graphics, or Ubuntu screen resolution, ubuntu network?
[09:16] <mdke> dunno
[09:16] <coreyt> let me check something
[09:17] <coreyt> What's ubuntuguide.org relation to anything other than a very long list in a wiki?
[09:17] <mpt> Put synonyms for each problem *on the actual page that solves the problem*
[09:17] <coreyt> I feel bad for any dialup users there :)
[09:18] <mpt> Please not a big list of keywords on the front page :-)
[09:18] <coreyt> no
[09:18] <LaserJock> coreyt: it's a family of guides done by various people. not related to the doc team at all, that I'm aware of
[09:18] <coreyt> It's a Wiki and google will crawl it, however keywords for each subject will help rankings.
[09:19] <coreyt> here's a search that's working for you guys
[09:19] <coreyt> Ubuntu Nvidia https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia
[09:19] <coreyt> brings that page in a top 10 result
[09:20] <coreyt> I need to find my google hacks book lol
[09:21] <coreyt> looks like I'll have to mirror apt to speed up screencasts
[09:21] <LaserJock> except it's going to the wrong wiki ;-)
[09:21] <coreyt> hrm
[09:23] <coreyt> ugh
[09:23] <coreyt> So what's the big difference between the wiki and help?
[09:24] <mdke> coreyt: wiki.ubuntu.com is a wiki for Ubuntu contributors to manage teams and exchange ideas about development. help.ubuntu.com/community is a wiki which provides help for users
[09:25] <popey> coreyt: i improve apt by downloading packages first
[09:25] <popey> apt-get -d foo
[09:27] <coreyt> I'm wondering if recording works inside a vmware image, gives a good controlled enviroment to build these.
[09:27] <popey> I record using qemu
[09:27] <coreyt> I've got the horsepower to drive it.
[09:27] <popey> the recording is done by the host, recording the window that qemu runs in
[09:27] <popey> could do the same with vmware
[09:28] <popey> coreyt: have you seen the guide? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts ?
[09:28] <coreyt> we'll the vmware player image for edgy is pretty standard.
[09:28] <coreyt> yeah I'm browsing it on and off
[09:28] <popey> One of my overriding goals was to create these screencasts using free tools.
[09:29] <popey> others of course use closed stuff like vmware and camtasia, I choose not to
[09:29] <coreyt> I've used Qemu a little for a usb key distro for system recovery but that's all.
[09:30] <coreyt> been awhile since I built that though
[09:30] <popey> I feel that we should eat our own dogfood
[09:30] <coreyt> Only reason I suggested the vmware player ubuntu image is it's the most readily available thing out there for someone who has never done any VM stuff.
[09:31] <popey> qemu can run a vmware image :)
[09:31] <coreyt> lol
[09:31] <coreyt> wait, it can start up a vmware player image?
[09:31] <popey> yes
[09:31] <coreyt> pfft
[09:31] <coreyt> Still command line?
[09:31] <popey> install qemu-launcher
[09:31] <popey> it's a gui for qemu
[09:32] <coreyt> bah
[09:32] <popey> and there are others in development, some real nice onces
[09:32] <coreyt> cool I have to check this out.
[09:32] <popey> that url I threw you has a screenshot of qemu-launcher
[09:32] <popey> personally I use the command line, but I appreciate others like GUIs, I am not bigoted that way :)
[09:33] <coreyt> what repo has qemu-launcher?
[09:33] <coreyt> I'm not finding it.
[09:34] <popey> universe in feisty
[09:34] <coreyt> works on edgy though?
[09:34] <popey> hmm
[09:34] <popey> should do, but it looks like its only in feisty
[09:34] <coreyt> I can do command line
[09:35] <popey> well, if you need any help with qemu, give me a shout, I have used it quite a bit
[09:35] <coreyt> I'll track down the source and see if it builds for Dapper/Edgy
[09:35] <popey> do you have a VT enabled CPU?
[09:35] <popey> qemu is packaged
[09:35] <coreyt> AMD X2
[09:35] <popey> does that do VT?
[09:35] <popey> if so, go get kvm, it does xen-style virtualisation for qemu
[09:35] <coreyt> pretty sure it does
[09:36] <popey> makes qemu blindingly fast
[09:36] <popey> http://kvm.sf.net
[09:36] <coreyt> sec
[09:41] <coreyt> ah on AMD it's called SVM
[09:41] <coreyt> so yeah I have VT capabilities
[10:06] <mdke> mpt: so what do you think, should we hammer out a decent spec for the help menu? Seems like there is a good case for it to become a button now that there are no other submenus in the "System" menu
[10:16] <mpt> mdke, there are no other submenus? How did that happen?
[10:16] <mpt> Is that from gnome-control-center?
[10:16] <mpt> But sure, that would be great, and the spec should use the word "richer" at least twice
[10:18] <mdke> mpt: yes, gnome-control-center rules them all
[10:18] <mdke> also the quit dialogue doesn't have a menu
[10:19] <mdke> mpt: can we just take https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsableHelpMenu and change the name?
[10:19] <mdke> and add stuff
[10:19] <mpt> sure
[10:21] <jrib> hi is anyone involved with the restructuring of RestrictedFormats?
[10:21] <mdke> jrib: I think the community just kinda takes care of it. Anything particular you have in mind?
[10:21] <jrib> well it has recently changed a lot, and I was going to fix a mistake and keep finding them
[10:22] <mdke> have a look in the history
[10:22] <mdke> see if you can find the culprit, then accost him/her
[10:23] <mdke>  /it
[10:24] <jrib> I think I see what is happening.  An effort is being made to break everything up into subpages, but links are being left broken and sometimes you see things like "see below" but it is no longer there.  I'll fix up what I see
[10:26] <jrib> That page was a bit of a monstrosity though, I praise the person who took up the task to begin with :)
[10:27] <tonyyarusso> which?
[10:27] <jrib> restricted
[10:27] <jrib> tonyyarusso: I just noticed how it has been reorganized
[10:27] <tonyyarusso> ah
[10:27] <tonyyarusso> yeah, that's nice
[10:29] <mdke> jrib: thanks for helping
[10:31] <tonyyarusso> bah
[10:32] <tonyyarusso> Sorry, that got channel misdirected...
[10:44] <mdke> mpt: can you think of a better name for the spec?
[10:45] <nixternal> UbuntuHelpTheRightWay :)
[10:47] <mpt> UbuntuHelpAndSupportAccess
[10:48] <willvdl> nixternal, I saw in LP one of those "help-me-to-distribute-CDs-I'm-a-new-user-and-love-ubuntu" product pages
[10:49] <nixternal> hahaha
[10:49] <willvdl> folks I need to ask a really silly and probably inane question
[10:49] <mpt> There are no silly questions, only silly people
[10:49] <mpt> wait
[10:49] <nixternal> i do it all the time, so go for it :)
[10:49] <mpt> that's not how the saying goes
[10:49] <nixternal> mpt: i am both
[10:49] <willvdl> why are the release-notes maintained in the SVN repo?
[10:49] <nixternal> willvdl: that's silly
[10:49] <nixternal> ;p
[10:50] <willvdl> I warned you, but you wouldn't listen
[10:50] <nixternal> all documentation is maintained in the SVN repo :)
[10:50] <nixternal> hahaha
[10:50] <willvdl> snot
[10:50] <willvdl> seriously, where do they go once they're written?
[10:50] <mdke> no it's not silly
[10:50] <nixternal> iirc release-notes will become a part of the ubiquity slideshow, but i am still not 100% positive on that since nobody has said anything to us
[10:51] <mdke> for Ubuntu we don't maintain the release notes in the svn repo
[10:51] <mdke> the developers maintain them on the wiki, and then they are put onto the website, and into update-manager
[10:51] <mdke> and the -announce mailing list
[10:52] <willvdl> mdke, but there is a directory in trunk and project links in the doc-team wiki
[10:53] <mdke> willvdl: there isn't a directory in trunk for Ubuntu that I can see
[10:53] <mdke> as for the project page, it's a bit behind... like 12 months
[10:53] <nixternal> there used to be for kubuntu, but i have recently removed thos
[10:53] <willvdl> good point
[10:53] <willvdl> nixternal, can you remove the edubuntu one?
[10:53] <nixternal> i sure can
[10:54] <LaserJock> hang on a sec
[10:54] <nixternal> ya, those are actually recent
[10:55] <willvdl> hmmm, so they are
[10:55] <LaserJock> you're going to get rid of the Edubuntu release notes?
[10:55] <willvdl> LaserJock, not exactly
[10:55] <willvdl> just trying to figure out where they should be maintained
[10:55] <LaserJock> depends on *who* is maintaining them ;-)
[10:56] <nixternal> it looks as if it was Jerome maintaining htem in the past
[10:57] <willvdl> LaserJock, spoke to jerome earlier
[10:57] <willvdl> he agrees that they make no sense being in SVN
[10:57] <LaserJock> well, jerome did work on them, lately I think ogra's just be writting them
[10:57] <willvdl> ...in the wiki
[10:57] <LaserJock> well, to me it does make sense to ship release notes in the documentation
[10:58] <LaserJock> but maybe not :-)
[10:58] <willvdl> well, philosophically speaking, one would read the release-notes before downloading or even installing the software
[10:59] <LaserJock> sure, but they should also be available "on site"
[11:00] <LaserJock> not that I read them ;-)
[11:00] <willvdl> that's what about-*buntu is for?
[11:01] <LaserJock> I wouldn't think so
[11:01] <willvdl> LaserJock, one approach is to maintain/author on the wiki and then pop into svn before release
[11:01] <mdke> willvdl: well, you can read the releasenotes after upgrading
[11:01] <mdke> (see "What's new in Ubuntu 7.04")
[11:01] <LaserJock> willvdl: well, I have no objections to it not being in SVN
[11:02] <LaserJock> seems like noone else does
[11:02] <willvdl> mdke, does that not duplicate the purpose of the About doc?
[11:02] <LaserJock> About *buntu is about *buntu
[11:02] <LaserJock> not the release
[11:02] <mdke> willvdl: no :)
[11:03] <willvdl> if it does stay in svn and gets packaged, where would one find it on the system?
[11:03] <LaserJock> in the help system along with everything else I'd imagine
[11:05] <willvdl> mdke, they tend to include "new" features etc as well. I find them very similar to the about pages
[11:06] <coreyt> What wiki do we use here?  Mediawiki??  Or homegrown?
[11:06] <willvdl> moin
[11:07] <willvdl> nixternal has a point though, if they are used in ubiquity then it makes sense
[11:07] <willvdl> live CD is perfect place for release notes I guess
[11:07] <coreyt> ni!
[11:08] <coreyt> It would be nice that documentation on the system could check if it's updated on a website and show the updated documentation.
[11:09] <LaserJock> what?
[11:09] <coreyt> thinking to myself :)
[11:09] <willvdl> moin - xml converter :)
[11:10] <LaserJock> coreyt: we ship updates
[11:10] <LaserJock> if needed
[11:10] <mdke> mpt: the about pages don't tend to include "new" features
[11:10] <coreyt> So the ? button documentation gets updated via a package?
[11:10] <LaserJock> coreyt: yeah
[11:10] <mdke> mpt: sorry, meant for willvdl
[11:10] <LaserJock> it gets there via a package
[11:11] <mdke> mpt: this one is for you: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpAndSupportAccess#preview
[11:11] <coreyt> I've never really went through it extensively
[11:11] <mdke> mpt: note that I've copied your email wholly
[11:12] <willvdl> mdke, your right. I've got my eyes tied up between beta announcements, knot releases, release notes etc.
[11:13] <coreyt> * bangs head on desk * .  Took me forever to get mp3 support into SoundJuicer and it's right there in the help app.
[11:14] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:16] <willvdl> can anyone remember where matt revell was putting the LP help pages he was writing?
[11:17] <mdke> help.launchpad.net
[11:19] <willvdl> he had some specific links on LP usage for ubuntu...
[11:20] <mdke> I don't think he's written those yet.
[11:20] <mdke> just the material on help.l.n
[11:20] <willvdl> https://help.launchpad.net/RecentChanges
[11:20] <mpt> coreyt, it's our responsibility to get the help to a standard where you can trust that the things you actually want to do will be explained there
[11:20] <dsas> Does the mac help menu get app specific help added to it too?
[11:21] <mpt> coreyt, until then, many people will scour the Web instead
[11:21] <mdke> willvdl: yes, you see it there, right?
[11:21] <willvdl> yip. the links are hanging though, no parent
[11:21] <LaserJock> dsas, how do you mean?
[11:21] <mpt> dsas, no. That's my Mac it's a screenshot of, and I have bazillions of apps installed
[11:22] <dsas> what's the point of a menu with one item?
[11:22] <mdke> we should add a screenshot of the current help menu
[11:22] <mdke> does anyone know how to do screenshots of menus?
[11:22] <mpt> dsas, well, Jef Raskin would have said "make it a button instead!", but it's better to be consistent with other menus
[11:23] <coreyt> How about a way to search for help in the help function that uses google to search for help on ubuntu's help sites rather than on blogs.
[11:23] <coreyt> and a button to request help if they cannot find it.
[11:23] <mpt> coreyt, that's already implemented, except that it uses Seek rather than Google
[11:23] <coreyt> :0
[11:23] <mpt> try it in Edgy
[11:24] <dsas> mpt: Seems weird to me. I should read more about usability.
[11:24] <mdke> mpt: btw I've marked mdz as approver, you think it should be mark?
[11:25] <mpt> mdke, that can be up to mdz to decide, I think
[11:25] <coreyt> dont mind me I'm slow :)
[11:25] <mdke> feel free to hack at the spec
[11:25] <mdke> I've finished now
[11:25] <willvdl> mpt, what are those "abc" bullet points that appear in the search results when using seek?
[11:26] <mpt> willvdl, I think that was newz2000 experimenting with filling slots in the search results template
[11:26] <mpt> it needs a lot of tidying up
[11:26] <willvdl> Burgundavia, hey, didn't see you there
[11:26] <Burgundavia> hey willvdl
[11:26] <coreyt> mpt: so is there a way to pull the top seek's ?
[11:26] <willvdl> been on vacation? when you get back?
[11:27] <mpt> coreyt, I don't understand what you mean
[11:28] <coreyt> okay if you hit seek-test and ask it for mythtv somewhere it records that someone asked for it.  So like on google where they produce those lists of how many times people asked for Jessica Simpson and whoever.
[11:29] <coreyt> top 10 searches :)
[11:30] <mpt> oh, right
[11:30] <mpt> yes, that's definitely part of the plan
[11:30] <mpt> but not implemented yet afaik
[11:30] <mpt> nag newz2000 next time you see him :-)
[11:30] <mpt> he's another member of the Matthew Cabal
[11:30] <coreyt> Someone can do it with a small shell script, I have source somewhere that can pull the terms and list them by frequency.
[11:31] <coreyt> *searches for Bash for Dummies*
[11:31] <mpt> I'm good at bashing dummies
[11:31] <coreyt> lol
[11:46] <mdke> mpt: what do you think about petitioning to put a launchpad for help back on the panel, like the old days? it's a bit hidden in the system menu
[11:47] <LaserJock> we already have a button don't we?
[11:47] <mdke> nope
[11:47] <mdke> it was removed back in breezy or so
[11:48] <mdke> the reasoning was that the icon was a bit confusing
[11:48] <LaserJock> no, but I mean Corey and I got it back for Feisty at least
[11:48] <mdke> did you? it's not there on my system
[11:49] <LaserJock> on a fresh install it should be
[11:49] <mdke> http://mdke.org/tmp/default.png
[11:49] <LaserJock> Edgy maybe too, but I can't remembner
[11:49] <mdke> lemme try making a new user now
[11:49] <jenda> hey folks
[11:49] <jenda> I'm writing up guidelines for designing marketing material.
[11:50] <jenda> I expect them to be changed widely later on, but I'd like to hear the doc's suggestions.
[11:50] <jenda> I've covered trademark and branding issues: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/DIYWebsite/Guidelines
[11:50] <LaserJock> I think it might have missed Edgy, but on Feisty it's there I'm pretty sure
[11:50] <jenda> I'm thinking what to next
[11:51] <jenda> Oh come on, did i kill the channel? :)
[11:51] <mdke> LaserJock: ooh yeah!! Dunno how that slipped past me. Nice one!!
[11:52] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:52] <mpt> mdke, long-term, I think it is confusing to have a mixture of buttons and menus on the same panel
[11:53] <mpt> mdke, so is the default.png you made not quite accurate?
[11:53] <mdke> mpt: correct, I'll upload another one, if it isn't too late.
[11:53] <mpt> sure
[11:53] <mdke> jenda: looks ok. I'd make it a bit snappier, shorter paragraphs, more bullet points
[11:54] <jenda> mdke: will work on that, thanks.
[11:54] <jenda> mdke: it'll be a lot longer, too.
[11:54] <jenda> I hope :)
[12:02] <mdke> mpt: reuploaded
[12:02] <mdke> discovered some comedy nautilus behaviour in the process too
[12:03] <mdke> you can drag and drop a file from another user's home directory into your webhosting remote server, but you can't drag it to your desktop. Gotta love it
[12:12] <willvdl> night all