[12:18] <mpt> mdke, did you report a bug?
[12:20] <tonyyarusso> Nautilus still has a selection bug from forever ago.
[12:20] <mpt> thanks mdke
[12:22] <mdke> mpt: not yet because I assume that they have loads of bugs on this, in fact I vaguely remember seeing one. I've asked in #nautilus
[12:22] <nixternal> uh oh
[12:22] <nixternal> right as i come back online :)
[12:23] <mdke> :)
[12:23] <LaserJock> I think I've only reported 1 real bug in my lifetime :/
[12:24] <mdke> LaserJock: it's all about reporting bugs on Launchpad
[12:24] <mdke> vast majority of the bugs I've reported recently have been on Launchpad
[12:24] <dsas> I think I filed 5 bugs on LP this week
[12:25] <LaserJock> I guess
[12:25] <nixternal> i have filed plenty, and have plenty more to go :)
[12:25] <dsas> probably not, but it feels like it.
[12:25] <LaserJock> although I've gotten a bit cynical WRT to LP
[12:26] <mpt> mdke, "on", or "about"? :-)
[12:26] <mdke> mpt: the latter. But i exaggerated
[12:26] <mdke> i can never spell exaggerate
[12:27] <mdke> LaserJock: cynical how?
[12:28] <mdke> AHA!
[12:28] <mdke> I filed the bastard myself nearly a year ago
[12:28] <mdke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/39482
[12:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39482 in nautilus "nautilus tries to move when dragging and dropping from read-only folders, instead of copying" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[12:29] <LaserJock> mdke: well, anything I'm intrested is always a "corner case" or it'll be "real soon"
[12:29] <LaserJock> I know they work hard
[12:29] <LaserJock> but it seems like not on anything I'm interested in
[12:30] <mdke> LaserJock: do what I do and file trivial bugs on the language in the dialogues
[12:31] <LaserJock> well, I couldn't care less about dialogues though ;j-)
[12:31] <LaserJock> ;-) rather
[12:31] <dsas> hmm, I guess it was just 3. and one was a dupe.
[12:31] <mdke> yeah, was joking
[12:31] <LaserJock> I'd rather have it useful for me
[12:31] <LaserJock> instead I have to go write my own scripts
[12:31] <nixternal> mdke: gahaha! sweet blog post
[12:31] <mdke> yeah, it's funny that :)
[12:31] <mdke> I've been meaning to blog it since I read it
[12:33] <nixternal> the last analogy is classic
[12:33] <mdke> yeah, you laugh when rereading it even though you know what it's going to say
[12:34] <mdke> someone thought they'd do their creative writing class and math class at the same time
[12:34] <nixternal> hahahaha
[12:34] <nixternal> man, i used to hate those questions in elementary school
[12:35] <crimsun> how does the editor not get the third one? :)
[12:36] <crimsun> it's the personification that's utterly off
[12:36] <mdke> crimsun: it's not clear, but I added the parentheses as a joke
[12:36] <crimsun> hailstones are inanimate objects; they can't "leap"
[12:36] <mdke> sure they can!
[12:36] <crimsun> they can bounce :)
[12:36] <nixternal> lol
[12:37] <crimsun> that would have utterly flunked my old creative writing class.
[12:37] <mdke> LaserJock: that's a shame. I think that LP get so many bugs that even though they do good triage and confirm/reject them quickly, they don't get fixed very quickly. Lots of very early bugs are still open
[12:37] <nixternal> crimsun: but hailstones can make you leap :)
[12:39] <LaserJock> mdke: it's the nature of the beast. I think they are working on making it user-ready and not developer-ready. Which makes sense
[12:41] <LaserJock> it's just irritating to have to spend hours writing scripts for LP-workarounds
[12:41] <mdke> LaserJock: you should put together a mail for matthewrevell
[12:41] <mdke> give him some feedback
[12:42] <LaserJock> perhaps
[12:43] <mdke> that's what he's there fore
[12:43] <LaserJock> not sure if he can do much about it. They seem to be working their butts off as it is
[12:43] <mdke> sure
[12:44] <LaserJock> but maybe I'm just in a particularly cynical mood today ;-)
[12:45] <mdke> cynic!
[12:45] <LaserJock> heh
[12:45] <LaserJock> I found last night that using a CLI browser helped a little
[12:46] <LaserJock> ok, well now you've motivated me
[12:47] <LaserJock> I *have* to file a LP bug by the end of the day
[12:49] <crimsun> sweet, so you're taking over alsa afteward?
[12:49] <crimsun> afterward, even
[12:49] <nixternal> sure, i think i can do a lot of not-so-good to the package :)
[12:49] <crimsun> rocking, join the ubuntu-audio team :)
[12:50] <crimsun> (and by package, you meant all audio bugs, I'm sure :)
[12:50] <crimsun> if only it were just one
[12:50] <LaserJock> hmm
[12:50] <LaserJock> I think I'd rather carve my eye out with a spoon
[12:50] <crimsun> been there, done that.
[12:51] <LaserJock> hmm, but then I work with lasers :/
[12:51] <LaserJock> so either way, eyes are in danger
[12:51] <mdke> wow, that's james bond stuff
[12:54] <nixternal> lol
[12:55] <nixternal> crimsun: the only good thing i can do on the ubuntu-audio team is play music :)
[01:15] <coreyt> lol
[01:16] <coreyt> I'd just love to see a hassle free way to encode dvd's to ipod format and even use my ipod.
[01:21] <coreyt> So who has access to the access logs to the seek server ?
[01:22] <mdke> hi MagicFab
[01:22] <mdke> ok, so point 1
[01:22] <LaserJock> seek server?
[01:22] <mdke> we can certainly encourage translators to localise any links rather than simply translating blindly
[01:22] <coreyt> yeah the search function in the help applet on Ubuntu.
[01:23] <mdke> MagicFab: does that address point 1 or is it more subtle again?
[01:23] <coreyt> need to grep the logs for https://seek-test.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=
[01:23] <MagicFab> mdke, what I mean is... if you have installed Ubuntu in spanish, you should get
[01:23] <MagicFab> spanish-countried marketplace choices, spanish forums, IRC, docs, etc.
[01:23] <mdke> ok, there are two points mixed together there
[01:24] <mdke> first is that the mockup doesn't envisage linking to marketplace/forums/IRC/docs etc
[01:24] <MagicFab> just like the "language tool" does a nice job of putting together all language-related packages in a few steps, the help & support tools should do that taking into account language/ geo location
[01:24] <mdke> which is your 2 and 3rd points, I think
[01:24] <mdke> the second part to it is the translation bit.
[01:24] <mdke> MagicFab: well, yelp is translated. We can encourage the translators to localise links that we put into the help center
[01:25] <MagicFab> support trackers are a bit different
[01:25] <LaserJock> coreyt: I don't know if that's for our shipped help or not. it looks like it's just for online help
[01:25] <mdke> MagicFab: let's just clear up the translation point first
[01:25] <MagicFab> mdke, localizing the links won't be except every release, right ?
[01:25] <coreyt> that's what seems to be searched in Edgy's help function if that's what you're asking.
[01:25] <mdke> MagicFab: what do you mean?
[01:26] <MagicFab> If links are localized, let's say for Edgy. And some of them change in between... no pudates will occur before feisty, right ?
[01:26] <coreyt> I wanted the results to build a script that can scan the logs and produce most searched terms in order from highest to lowest in a place people can read.  Then we can start seeing if we have any help for those subjects.
[01:26] <mdke> MagicFab: that's correct. You're probably familiar with the criterior for updating packages in stable releases
[01:27] <mdke> MagicFab: are you saying that causes a difficulty?
[01:27] <MagicFab> exactly. So for example the Canadian team just was confirmed officially. Shouldn't *ALL* ubuntu releases get an update in their help system about this ?
[01:27] <mdke> why?
[01:27] <MagicFab> Since we can't do that in yelp, I think it only makes sense this is managed by web
[01:28] <mdke> hang on a second. What's the added relevance of the Canadian team being confirmed officially?
[01:28] <MagicFab> mdke, If I installed Ubuntu with "English- Canada", I want to see the Canadian team in my free support options ASAP...
[01:28] <coreyt> lol
[01:28] <MagicFab> it's another support level (**official** locoteams)
[01:28] <mdke> I'm not sure it is, tbh
[01:29] <coreyt> Canadians use Linux eh?  ;0)
[01:29] <mdke> there is no requirement that a team needs to be "official" before providing support
[01:29] <MagicFab> mdke, I am proposing that, actually :)
[01:29] <mdke> MagicFab: well that's crazy, in my opinion. At least stated like that without any degree of qualification
[01:30] <mdke> but putting that aside, it's not the current position
[01:30] <LaserJock> coreyt: ask mdke but I really don't think that's use for Edgy's help
[01:30] <MagicFab> mdke, then the locoteams shouldn't be listed from www.ubuntu.com/support
[01:30] <mdke> MagicFab: why not?
[01:31] <MagicFab> u just said it's crazy! lots of locoteams linked from there are not even official. I am just saying it 's a bug resource difficult to find for non-english users.
[01:31] <mdke> there's no degree of "officialising" or quality control for any of the other community support resources
[01:31] <mdke> I don't see why "unofficial" locoteams can't provide support too
[01:32] <mdke> anyway, we've got totally sidetracked, let's bring it back
[01:32] <MagicFab> mdke, just like IRC or the mailing lists, we can push for a special category of Ubuntu members that would be support resources in their own loco/IRC channel/mailing list/LP team, etc.
[01:33] <MagicFab> mkde, I repeat that's my point. I want the community to have tools to be recognized as valid support providers, to a degree (--> community)
[01:33] <mdke> MagicFab: what do you mean "just like IRC or the mailing lists"? There is nothing like that happening to my knowledge in irc or mailing lists
[01:33] <MagicFab> I *KNOW* nothing like that is happening, that is what I *propose*...
[01:33] <mdke> MagicFab: I am extremely confused as to the point you're making :( It seems to be two opposites at once
[01:34] <mdke> can we get back on topic?
[01:34] <dsas> and the forums? That's an insane amount of people to be de-legitimising
[01:34] <MagicFab> ?
[01:34] <MagicFab> did I mention delegit ?
[01:34] <mdke> yes
[01:34] <mdke> MagicFab: the problem is possibly that we are misunderstanding each other
[01:34] <mdke> let's forget it, and talk about the spec please
[01:34] <dsas> Sorry..
[01:35] <mdke> MagicFab: (maybe if you put your thoughts on this point in an email it will be clearer)
[01:35] <LaserJock> grrr, why did printer sharing get screwed up in Edgy :(
[01:35] <MagicFab> I am only talking about the spec... help & support... mentoring people to provide better support, linking directly to them, filtering/detecting support requests and routing them appropriately.
[01:35] <coreyt> What's wrong with it?
[01:35] <mdke> MagicFab: that spec is exclusively about how the help system is presented in the Ubuntu System menu, at the moment.
[01:36] <coreyt> MagicFab, I think there's a website that does what you just said.
[01:36] <mdke> MagicFab: so, your other points
[01:37] <mdke> you mention the support tracker
[01:37] <MagicFab> coreyt, would love to see it. We get lots of "I need free support" from end-users (we= Canonical Global Support Services) . They can't find the free support.
[01:38] <MagicFab> mdke, I recently noticed support trackers can be linked to directly by teams
[01:38] <mdke> that's only one of multiple types of free community support provided, we can't include one without including the other. That's why at the moment we have a single link to "Support" because it can act as a springboard for the user to find different types of support
[01:38] <coreyt> MagicFab, I'll try to find it, it was well thought out and was for Linux users in mind.  Saw it on digg once but their search sucks.
[01:38] <coreyt> *googles*
[01:38] <mdke> MagicFab: do you understand my point?
[01:38] <MagicFab> mdke, yes, but we can go further than that.
[01:39] <mdke> MagicFab: bear in mind that the help front page has limited space
[01:39] <MagicFab> mdke, the spec is 300% right on having a single link for help & support
[01:40] <MagicFab> the help front page could have one or two fields to ask for country / language
[01:40] <MagicFab> and based onthat *only* present appropriate links
[01:40] <mdke> ???
[01:40] <mdke> the ubuntu installer already does that
[01:40] <mdke> the user is going to get pretty pissed off if we ask him twice what his language is
[01:40] <MagicFab> mdke, but it's permanent or at least session-based.
[01:41] <MagicFab> mdke, who said every time.. [ ]  Remember these settings
[01:41] <coreyt> en.help.ubuntu.com de.help.ubuntu.com fr.help.ubuntu.com  save yourself the trouble of a dropdown.
[01:41] <mdke> when you say "only present appropriate links", what do you mean?
[01:41] <MagicFab> coreyt, in fact, link to those too...
[01:42] <MagicFab> mdke: "Appropriate links" would mean presenting 2 headings:
[01:42] <MagicFab> 1. Commercial Support -> Marketplace, affiliates, partners, canonical, etc
[01:43] <MagicFab> 2. Community support -> IRC, mailing lists, forums, online docs, locoteams support trackes/sites, etc.
[01:43] <MagicFab> and why ask language / country ? Because I have friends & family & colleagues all over the place.
[01:44] <mdke> I'm afraid I don't buy adding another language dialogue to the help center
[01:44] <mdke> it should use the user's locale like every other single program
[01:44] <mdke> but the other aspect of your suggestion is definitely interesting
[01:44] <MagicFab> mdke, of cours it uses the user locale! but it can also propose to seek for ther languages support.
[01:44] <mdke> to me, it boils down to expanding what in the mockup is currently "get free or commercial technical support online"
[01:44] <mdke> MagicFab: it can, but shouldn't
[01:45] <MagicFab> Why should I need to install a full japanese locale just to help a friend find Ubuntu support in japanese ?
[01:45] <dsas> You could just tell them to open up the help menu and click the link.
[01:45] <mdke> MagicFab: if the friend is looking for support, it's likely that they have an Ubuntu system
[01:45] <MagicFab> replace japanese with french/english/spanish - I go through that a lot everyday.
[01:45] <mdke> that's a real corner use case
[01:46] <MagicFab> mdke, most new converts I've known seek the information before installing that
[01:46] <mdke> the help system isn't for providing help to third parties, it's for providing help for users of the system
[01:46] <mdke> MagicFab: well that's what the website is for, dude
[01:47] <MagicFab> mdke, don't dude me ;)
[01:47] <mdke> sorry, it's 1am
[01:47] <MagicFab> website IMO should also provide those two filters (language/location)
[01:47] <mdke> that's a wholly different spec
[01:47] <mdke> so, leaving the language point for now...
[01:48] <MagicFab> and your corner use case is something I face most everyday.
[01:48] <mdke> your proposal is to expand the section called "Can't find the answer" and localise it
[01:48] <mdke> right?
[01:49] <MagicFab> mdke, I didn't say that - not sure where that section is
[01:49] <mdke> please tell me you looked at the mockup
[01:49] <MagicFab> looking at the screenshot, yes I did see that
[01:49] <mdke> phew
[01:49] <MagicFab> I didn't memorize all of it ;)
[01:49] <mdke> that's ok
[01:50] <mdke> I cheated by having it open at the same time
[01:50] <MagicFab> really, I am just enthusiastic about this :)
[01:50] <mdke> that's good
[01:50] <MagicFab> Let's say the first time (and as an option) you used yelp you were asked : Country / Language (already filled as per your locale)
[01:50] <mdke> so, as for your point on synchronisation; naturally we can update the package for each release, depending on whether the available support resources change
[01:51] <MagicFab> and you could always filter exsiting support options by that. That's my dream scenario.
[01:52] <MagicFab> mdke: can't we use some sort of resource file that this always refer to so we don have to wait for release cycles ?
[01:52] <MagicFab> offline users would have it from the CD, online users from an online resource (!= webpage)
[01:52] <mdke> MagicFab: I would envisage that the available support resources is only likely to change extremely rarely, certianly ont as often as every release cycle
[01:53] <mdke> forum, irc, support tracker (free); marketplace, partners, canonical (commercial)
[01:53] <mdke> the translators will keep on top of the localisations of those
[01:54] <MagicFab> In particular it's not the addition of resource but their deletions that I want to have instantly. If any resource disappears, i want it to be reflected rapidly
[01:54] <mdke> MagicFab: do resources get deleted?
[01:54] <mdke> if I ran a support resource, I'd make damn sure that it didn't close without a redirection or explanation page
[01:55] <MagicFab> well, yes, they will soon. A major cleanup of the marketplace will take place short-term. And affiliates/partners have to renew every year.
[01:55] <tonyyarusso> lol...maybe I need to make my profanity hilights #ubuntu-specific
[01:55] <MagicFab> mdke, that's you :)
[01:55] <mdke> MagicFab: we are not going to link to individual commercial companies in the help center
[01:55] <MagicFab> mdke, they'll be only 2 links from there: marketplace -> company.
[01:55] <mdke> MagicFab: there might (just possibly) be a link to the marketplace page, but we can't go any deeper than that
[01:56] <mdke> the marketplace page won't change, because the Ubuntu webmaster knows the importance of not making urls disappear overnight
[01:56] <mdke> so any changes to the page itself will be fine
[01:57] <MagicFab> mdke, perhaps then when the marketplace is a database / automated we can say you're right. But it's not going to be at least for the next year.
[01:57] <mdke> MagicFab: are you saying the url is going to change without a redirection being put in place?
[01:57] <mdke> it's going to stop being http://www.ubuntu.com/support/marketplace ?
[01:58] <MagicFab> not the marketplace URL but the companies in it.
[01:58] <MagicFab> and countries will appear / disappear based on companies
[01:58] <mdke> yes, but to repeat myself again, they won't be in the help center so it doesn't matter
[01:59] <MagicFab> help center -> country choice -> marketplace section "Canada" needs to be available offline, so yes they will matter
[01:59] <mdke> MagicFab: "needs" is a matter of opinion. I say it doesn't
[01:59] <mdke> in fact, I'm not convinced that we should necessarily have links to individual support resources in the help center. It's probably better to link to http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid and http://www.ubuntu.com/support/free
[01:59] <mdke> simply because there isn't enough space in the help center to properly explain the choices of resource that people have
[02:00] <mdke> those pages do a much better job
[02:00] <MagicFab> mdke, if you're offline, then you have 0 support.
[02:00] <mdke> MagicFab: that's correct.
[02:00] <MagicFab> that's why I said both need to be sync'ed (yelp & website)
[02:01] <mdke> that's a very wishlist feature, we are not going to get into that for this release
[02:01] <mdke> no chance at all
[02:01] <mdke> we can only ship the docs, and provide links to online support resources.
[02:01] <MagicFab> mdke, why not
[02:01] <MagicFab> time / resources constraints ?
[02:02] <mdke> it needs serious planning
[02:02] <mdke> no community resources offer offline support, or nearly none
[02:02] <mdke> only the commercial ones
[02:02] <MagicFab> offline support = marketplace, for which we have all phone no.s.
[02:03] <mdke> right, that's commercial
[02:03] <mdke> and it runs into the synching problems you identified
[02:04] <MagicFab> well, one number we can assume will always work is ours - not even that is goig to be listed as per the current spec.
[02:05] <mdke> you could print it on the default desktop background...
[02:05] <MagicFab> I want as many options for anyone trying U. for the first time and hitting that 'help' button includin "here, try calling all these, or us directly, if you're in Canada".
[02:06] <MagicFab> and I want those same options accessible later on too when considering more support or passing the info to others.
[02:07] <mdke> ok. The idea is clear. It makes me slightly uncomfortable because I don't think the operating system should really be used for promoting commercial activities, I feel the website is ideal for that, but I suppose that line has already been crossed to a certain extent
[02:07] <mdke> I think the implementation is very complex
[02:07] <mdke> and I wouldn't consider it to be part of the target for Feisty
[02:07] <mdke> but you never know
[02:08] <Burgundavia> the problem with having the OS telling people whom to call is that the data would get out of date very quickly
[02:08] <mdke> MagicFab mentioned that point
[02:08] <MagicFab> Burgundavia, only if you're not online.
[02:09] <mdke> if you're not online, you don't need it on the system anyway
[02:09] <MagicFab> In that case you have other bigger concerns like security updates
[02:09] <Burgundavia> yes. but still, I also share mdke's concern about the commercial
[02:09] <MagicFab> mdke, yes you do, sometime to , well, get online :)
[02:09] <mdke> MagicFab: well, it's reasonable to expect you to do so to visit the website :p
[02:10] <mdke> tbh, it's one think to include a link to commercial activities, and another to include the details in the system
[02:10] <mdke> thing*
[02:10] <MagicFab> Burgundavia, right now we have System > Help > Commercial support. What's worse in what I propose ??
[02:10] <Burgundavia> I hate the help "menu"
[02:10] <mdke> but it's definitely worth discussing further
[02:10] <Burgundavia> it needs to go away
[02:12] <mdke> MagicFab: perhaps you can tidy up these thoughts a bit on the wiki page. Essentially there are three aspects: 1. localisation, 2. more detail in the types of extra support, and 3. offline commercial support details. 1 is definitely already on the todo list, 2 and 3 we can consider; but I don't want implemention problems with 3 to get in the way of the spec being completed for feisty
[02:12] <mdke> MagicFab: you clearly have lots of ideas for providing good support and I don't doubt your motives in the slightest. It may be worthwhile compiling a more ambitious/substantial spec for Feisty+1
[02:12] <MagicFab> mdke, yes, it's actually very kind of you to confront some of the ideas so I could validate/think about their relevance.
[02:12] <mdke> sometimes it pays to move in small steps
[02:13] <MagicFab> mdke, I know it seems big, but I see more problems in delegating / trusting the reanslators to update/localize info like URLs
[02:14] <MagicFab> mdke, I'll try to do a mockup too
[02:14] <mdke> MagicFab: well, at least from the point of view of free resources, there is no alternative
[02:15] <mdke> maybe for the commercial links we will make them non-localisable for now
[02:15] <mdke> I don't have a problem with allowing translation teams to insert urls to their websites
[02:15] <mdke> we do it already
[02:15] <mdke> and we trust them with the rest of the OS :)
[02:15] <MagicFab> I also think nothing stop us from planning the bigger future steps now - and even implementing some if we seeopportunity/resources
[02:16] <mdke> MagicFab: yes, I agree. However, doing so in a separate spec for the more ambitious plans is desirable because (a) it won't prevent implementation of the existing spec, and (b) it can have much more significant further discussion
[02:18] <MagicFab> none of the info is in any standard format or database that could be used easily right now. So that needs to be addressed first.
[02:18] <MagicFab> Well, unless you consider wiki-tables of any use...
[02:19] <mdke> we can discuss all the issues, moral, social, technical
[02:19] <mdke> MagicFab: see if you can structure those ideas (preferably in the 1, 2, 3 format I summarised them above) on the wiki page or in an email, and we'll go from there.
[02:20] <MagicFab> I hate endless discs. ;) but yeah, open discussion is good. I'll keep an eye and work on it as much as I can.
[02:20] <MagicFab> yes, will do
[02:20] <mdke> endless discs?
[02:20] <mdke> we only just started
[02:21] <MagicFab> oh, not today.... this was actually short and to the point ;)
[02:22] <MagicFab> mdke, considering I said "I can give you 5" and I have to go pee since 1hr. and eat too... :)
[02:22] <mdke> heh
[02:22] <mdke> good night, and good toilet break
[02:23] <MagicFab> same to you
[02:33] <coreyt> MagicFab, I found it
[02:33] <coreyt> http://alpha.qunu.com/index.html
[02:33] <coreyt> That's a help matching system.
[02:35] <Burgundavia> coreyt: I am sorry to tell you are going to need to change your name
[02:35] <Burgundavia> there is only one room for one Corey here
[02:35] <coreyt> bah!
[02:36] <mpt> coreyt, like I said, the guy with the search logs is Matt Nuzum, aka newz2000
[02:36] <coreyt> yeah I went up and saw that.
[02:37] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: haha, but you don't even have Corey anywhere in your nick ;-)
[02:37] <MagicFab> coreyt, great.
[02:37] <coreyt> that qunu help thingy is pretty slick.  It looks like it never really caught on though.
[02:38] <MagicFab> perhaps the awwwful colors ? Brown rules
[02:38] <coreyt> lol
[02:38] <tonyyarusso> coreyt: I signed up, never got a question.
[02:38] <MagicFab> "linux" returns exactly two experts
[02:38] <coreyt> brown aint delivering my CCNP 3.0 books today lol...
[02:39] <coreyt> one of them is probably in this forum ^^^
[02:42] <coreyt> I like the concept of the site though.  People sign up to help people, they do help others, and the helped people rate them.
[02:43] <TheRealCorey> LaserJock: there
[02:43] <coreyt> lol
[02:43] <LaserJock> hmm, will the real Corey please stand up?
[02:43] <LaserJock> I know, I know
[02:43] <LaserJock> shameless
[02:44] <TheRealCorey> bloody americans, filling the world with their bloody music :D
[02:45] <LaserJock> heh, much of our music is from Canadians ;-)
[02:45] <coreyt> We tried to throw back Ciline Deion ;)
[02:46] <dsas> did you get rid of Bryan Adams yet?
[02:46] <Burgundavia> nope
[02:47] <Burgundavia> but he has stopped producing music
[02:47] <coreyt> Anyone know if KVM requires me to rebuild my kernel?
[02:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[02:48] <Burgundavia> but it is only in .20, which is in feisty
[02:48] <coreyt> bah thought I left that behind with Gentoo
[02:48] <coreyt> so cant use that until probably June
[02:49] <dsas> coreyt: April
[02:49] <coreyt> That's not so far
[02:50] <Burgundavia> 20 has some major issues, due to KVM
[02:50] <coreyt> working on my CCIP/CCIE(SP) so time should fly
[02:51] <coreyt> I hate certs
[02:52] <LaserJock> hmm, I've never done one
[04:13] <coreyt> Ever notice how these people who do screenshot tours of every new distro just take the same pictures over and over again.
[04:30] <coreyt> Do we have any screencasts yet?
[04:32] <LaserJock> coreyt: I'm pretty sure
[04:36] <coreyt> Not that I care, but I just realized that those of us in the US might want to watch out what we publish in terms of things like libdvdcss.  Stupid copyright laws.  It's one thing to put them on a wiki somewhere.  It may be another where were publishign screencasts proving we did it.
[04:43] <LaserJock> heh, well I don't think I use any of that anyway
[04:58] <tonyyarusso> Just have a European publish it for you ;)
[05:11] <nixternal> LaserJock: at least the US had good white rappers (if there was such a thing), and what did Canada have? oh ya, Snow, Informer, you know samblamy ala flam, day licky da boom boom deeeeown
[05:13] <nixternal> argh, Burgundavia wasn't even around for that one
[05:13] <nixternal> QUOTE>LaserJock: at least the US had good white rappers (if there was such a thing), and what did Canada have? oh ya, Snow, Informer, you know samblamy ala flam, day licky da boom boom deeeeown
[05:18] <LaserJock> oh geeze
[05:19] <nixternal> man, the spice test video on youtube kills me
[09:45] <popey> 01:47 < coreyt> Anyone know if KVM requires me to rebuild my kernel?
[09:45] <popey> 01:48 < Burgundavia> yes
[09:45] <popey> 01:48 < Burgundavia> but it is only in .20, which is in feisty
[09:45] <popey> no
[09:45] <popey> you can build the module standalone
[09:46] <popey> bum, not here
[06:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #64245 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Kubuntu Desktop Guide - Video/Kino Using Ubuntu Menu Structure" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64245
[06:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #66781 in kubuntu-docs (main) "[EDGY]  Wrong versions reported in release notes" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66781
[06:16] <LaserJock> go nixternal go!
[06:16] <nixternal> muhehe
[06:17] <nixternal> those aren't new boogs, i just fix released um
[06:17] <LaserJock> nixternal: those are best kinds of bug emails to get ;-)
[06:18] <nixternal> hehe
[08:02] <mdke> .win 12
[08:11] <nixternal> hehe
[09:52] <mpt> mdke, what could be improved in the HelpAndSupportAccess spec?
[09:53] <mpt> It seems like maybe I need to clarify more what it's *not* about
[10:07] <mdke> mpt: I think you did that quite well. Thanks for the rewrite
[10:10] <mpt> well, Will Simpson misread it, anyway
[10:10] <mpt> so I'll tweak it a bit more
[10:11] <mdke> he understood that a separate help menu was planned, but otherwise seemed to understand fairly well
[11:25] <mdke> somerville32: are you still using the administration privileges on ~ubuntu-screencasts?
[11:26] <somerville32> mdke: Yup.
[11:26] <popey> heh
[11:26] <mdke> i see
[11:33] <mdke> somerville32: and... any indication of how long you're going to be using it?
[11:35] <somerville32> When the artist is finished, I'll upload it. However, I wouldn't mind retaining it.
[11:39] <mdke> somerville32: there's an artist?
[11:40] <mdke> somerville32: as for retaining, we need to be consistent about who's administering the team because it is the way we differentiate who can review and upload videos. I'll be giving up mine too when the right moment comes
[11:40] <mdke> somerville32: so if you submit a few videos and they pass popey's stringent quality control mechanisms, then I'm sure you'll be considered
[11:41] <LaserJock> how long are the videos, in general?
[11:41] <popey> 5, 10, 15 mins
[11:41] <popey> depending on the complexity of the subject matter
[11:41] <popey> 5 mins for a basic tutorial
[11:41] <popey> 10 mins for something a bit more in depth
[11:41] <popey> 15 mins for a comprehensive tutorial
[11:41] <LaserJock> cool
[11:41] <popey> human attention span not being fantastic
[11:42] <LaserJock> "How to package for Ubuntu" video
[11:42] <popey> heh
[11:42] <mdke> that would be a 5 min job
[11:42] <LaserJock> my irc tutorials run ~2hr
[11:42] <popey> "How to write a modular kernel"
[11:42] <popey> do you write an ircd in that 2 hours?
[11:42] <LaserJock> irc tutorial of "How to package for Ubuntu"
[11:42] <popey> ahh
[11:42] <popey> :)
[11:42] <LaserJock> not tutorial on irc
[11:42] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:42] <popey> was going to say
[11:43] <popey> I'd be in a coma before the first hour was up :)
[11:43] <mdke> heh
[11:44] <nixternal> tomorrw i shall wait for the mailman and then sick the dogs after him
[11:44] <nixternal> tomorrow as well
[11:44] <mdke> nixternal: what did he do wrong?
[11:44] <nixternal> he put in wet packages, which when it is below freezing
[11:44] <popey> "Bill Gates deposition to the DoJ"
[11:45] <popey> not sure I have the stamina
[11:45] <nixternal> damaged my brand new python book
[11:45] <nixternal> and i had to pry the mailbox door open with a screw driver
[11:45] <LaserJock> man, I watched season 2 of 24 at Christmas
[11:45] <LaserJock> 7 DVDs
[11:45] <popey> :)
[11:45] <popey> I want to start again with 24
[11:45] <LaserJock> what a blast
[11:45] <nixternal> not a good thing to do in a gated community. if people didn't know who i was, they would have called the police
[11:47] <mdke> nixternal: your dogs aren't so tough though, right? you need a panther
[11:47] <nixternal> lol
[11:47] <nixternal> mdke: our mailman is terrified of all dogs, even our small 5lb terrier
[11:48] <nixternal> i don't know if it is a "religion" thing with him or what, because I can't see a grown man terrified by a dog no bigger than a cat
[11:49] <mdke> the small ones are the vicious ones
[11:49] <nixternal> lol, not this one
[11:49] <nixternal> i can see him being terrified of my pitbull, and even he is harmless
[11:50] <LaserJock> popey: I watched the first 4 episodes of this season of 24 Sunday night and last night. very cool
[11:50] <popey> very
[11:50] <popey> BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

[11:50] <LaserJock> mhm
[11:50] <nixternal> all i watch is "little people big world" and the military channel on satellite
[11:50] <nixternal> oh the nuke?
[11:50] <LaserJock> and biting that guys neck in the first episode
[11:50] <LaserJock> yuck
[11:51] <mdke> somerville32: what was that about "the artist"?
[11:51] <nixternal> oh, and the dog whisperer
[11:51] <LaserJock> nixternal: Ceasar Milan or whatever his name is
[11:55] <nixternal> yes LaserJock
[11:57] <LaserJock> nixternal: I so want that guy to come fix our cat
[11:57] <nixternal> hahaha
[11:58] <nixternal> we want him to come fix the new puppy
[11:58] <nixternal> my dog doesn't even like him
[11:58] <nixternal> the little dog beats up the big dog
[11:58] <LaserJock> my wife is literally only getting about half of the sleep she used to
[11:59] <LaserJock> and I'm starting to get woken up too
[12:02] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/ziggy.jpg
[12:02] <nixternal> can you picture that getting beat up by a little yorkie :)
[12:04] <LaserJock> not exactly
[12:04] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/P1010021.JPG
[12:04] <nixternal> that little thing runs the house
[12:11] <somerville32> http://sheep.art.pl/misc/screencast.png
[12:11] <somerville32> http://sheep.art.pl/misc/screencast2.png
[12:11] <somerville32> Which one do you like better?
[12:11] <popey> oooo purdy
[12:12] <popey> ditto
[12:12] <popey> now the next question
[12:13] <popey> can we get a scalable tangoised icon like that :)
[12:13] <popey> (or like whichever one we choose as a collective) :)
[12:16] <popey> yeah, you do have to get kinda close up to the second one
[12:16] <popey> would look good in massive-tango-o-vision though
[12:16] <popey> hmm
[12:16] <popey> tang-o-vision