[12:14] <geser> /etc/schroot/setup.d/10mount does it if run-setup-scripts is set to true for this schroot
[12:33] <crimsun> tsmithe: versioning would be 1.0.14~rc1-0ubuntu1
[12:33] <tsmithe> hmm
[12:33] <tsmithe> ok
[12:34] <crimsun> tsmithe: jaroslav just tagged 1.0.14rc2, so I'd wait a day or so til those tarballs are available
[12:34] <tsmithe> hmmok
[12:34] <tsmithe> *ok
[12:34] <tsmithe> thanks
[12:34] <tsmithe> anything to say about alsa-tools?
[12:34] <tsmithe> cos i'm off to do an english essay - leave me a pm if there is
[12:39] <crimsun> tsmithe: nothing conspicuous; remember to regenerate against 1.0.14rc2
[12:40] <tsmithe> sure thing
[12:40] <tsmithe> thanks
[12:59] <imbrandon> ...
[12:59] <zul> hey imbrandon 
[12:59] <imbrandon> heya zul
[01:00] <imbrandon> hrm, irssi shows mirc colors ? wow
[01:01] <LaserJock> you're surprised?
[01:01] <ajmitch> hello magnon 
[01:01] <imbrandon> well kinda, been using it a few months now and this seems to be the first time i have seen it
[01:01] <luisbg> LaserJock, hey!
[01:02] <LaserJock> hi luisbg 
[01:03] <superm1> hi imbrandon, did you ever get around to finishing looking through the mythtv packaging?
[01:03] <luisbg> LaserJock, can you check something for me?
[01:03] <imbrandon> ahh yea , matter of fact i need to install that compile i made and test it
[01:03] <imbrandon> i made one or two small cahnges
[01:04] <LaserJock> luisbg: what is it?
[01:04] <imbrandon> i think i pusghed them back to bzr
[01:04] <imbrandon> if not i will in a few
[01:04] <superm1> ill update my local copy and see the changes then
[01:04] <imbrandon> k
[01:05] <luisbg> if the bzr for ubuntu studio is correct now... https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio
[01:06] <superm1> imbrandon, it looks like its at revision 13 still which is the last one i left it at on bzr
[01:06] <superm1> (at least for mythtv) (mythplugins is at revision 4)
[01:09] <imbrandon> k i'll push now
[01:09] <superm1> k
[01:11] <LaserJock> luisbg: it looks ok, if bzr will let me branch I'll tell you more
[01:12] <imbrandon> hrm
[01:13] <luisbg> will let you branch?
[01:13] <LaserJock> luisbg: looks good to me
[01:13] <LaserJock> luisbg: bzr kills my DSL router
[01:13] <luisbg> ouch
[01:13] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:13] <LaserJock> I have a hard time using bzr from home
[01:13] <LaserJock> a branch works about every 1 in 5 times
[01:13] <luisbg> btw... seen the bug you can't delete registered series?
[01:14] <LaserJock> yes, that's always been there
[01:14] <LaserJock> you can get an LP admin to get rid of it though, I think
[01:14] <imbrandon> iirc not a bug, you cant delete anything from LP
[01:14] <luisbg> your "looks good to me?" is with one of those 5 times it worked or should I wait for a more detailed look?
[01:14] <LaserJock> luisbg: I got it
[01:14] <luisbg> cool
[01:14] <imbrandon> more dew, brb
[01:14] <luisbg> thanks man!
[01:14] <luisbg> know any LP admin? would like to ask him to delete that for me
[01:15] <imbrandon> #launchpad ;)
[01:15] <LaserJock> luisbg: I think you guys could put a file in the root of the branch with the URL of the tarball
[01:15] <luisbg> LaserJock, ok
[01:15] <luisbg> will tell the owners 
[01:15] <luisbg> of the stuff in the bzr
[01:16] <LaserJock> lifeless: do you know if bzr > 0.11 makes less DNS lookups?
[01:16] <persia> crimsun: For bitpim, no Ubuntu changes are preserved.  The changelog should still be preserved?
[01:17] <tsmithe> LaserJock, thanks for the go-ahead :)
[01:18] <LaserJock> well, you guys certianly don't need my permission ;-)
[01:18] <LaserJock> I just thought it would help you out later on
[01:19] <luisbg> LaserJock, thanks again
[01:19] <luisbg> before making all upload just wanted to check they have a good basis to do so
[01:19] <luisbg> if not... would be double the work later on
[01:21] <crimsun> persia: it has to be a merge, because there's an existing Ubuntu delta, and you attest there are necessary changes
[01:21] <lifeless> LaserJock: should
[01:22] <persia> crimsun: The necessary changes are all mine, for this update.  I started with a pristine Debian source, as I agree with Adri2000 that a sync would work, but for the ctypes change.
[01:23] <LaserJock> lifeless: ok cool, my DSL router still seems to not like bzr. I'll grab the latest bzr
[01:26] <crimsun> persia: I'm not sure what your question is. There's an existing delta, and there will be an existing delta. You don't simply drop previous changelog entries when that's the case.
[01:27] <persia> crimsun: OK.  I'll update, with the old changelog entries.  I'll note that I'm dropping all previous Ubuntu changes there.
[01:27] <crimsun> persia: you don't need to note that, but you do need to retain the changelog entries
[01:28] <persia> crimsun: I thought best practice was to list remaining Ubuntu changes during a merge.  Now I'm confused.
[01:30] <crimsun> persia: oh I see. Yes, that's correct.
[01:30] <persia> crimsun: Which is correct?
[01:30] <crimsun> listing changes
[01:30] <persia> crimsun: OK.  Thanks for the clarification.
[01:35] <crimsun> ugh, this is ridiculous
[01:36] <crimsun> everytime I go to clear the u-u-s queue, there's yet another bug
[01:36] <LaserJock> mhm
[01:42] <lionel> crimsun: you're too fast !
[01:42] <crimsun> no, you're too fast
[01:42] <crimsun> this bug queue is ridiculous
[01:42] <crimsun> it's keeping me from dinner, darn it.
[01:42] <crimsun> (and sleep, but whatever)
[01:43] <LaserJock> crimsun: how do you do them? do you go down the line in email?
[01:43] <lionel> not sure to understand...
[01:43] <crimsun> LaserJock: I poll +reportedbugs
[01:44] <crimsun> LaserJock: it's essentially watch -n2 wget ...
[01:52] <LaserJock> lifeless: holy cow!!! bzr 0.13 is way faster than 0.11
[01:53] <crimsun> there, u-u-s queue cleared.
[01:53] <LaserJock> crimsun: +reportedbugs?
[01:54] <crimsun> LaserJock: for the three most active reporters currently
[01:54] <Burgundavia> u-u-s?
[01:55] <imbrandon> ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[01:55] <crimsun> ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[01:55] <LaserJock> crimsun: ah
[01:55] <LaserJock> I wondered how you could keep track very well, I'm stuggling
[01:56] <Hobbsee> crimsun: WOOT!!!
[01:57] <persia> crimsun: Thank you so ever much.  It's much more satisfying to contribute when the changes are adopted so amazingly quickly.
[01:57] <crimsun> LaserJock: email's far too slow
[01:58] <imbrandon> crimsun, poll +reportbugs ?
[01:58] <imbrandon> hum
[01:58] <Hobbsee> heya imbrandon 
[01:58] <LaserJock> crimsun: surely we've got to have a better system than that :/
[01:58] <imbrandon> hehe
[01:59] <LaserJock> crimsun: we need more than the "one man sponsor" show ;-)
[01:59] <imbrandon> heh
[01:59] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: true.  but he does such a good job
[01:59] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: sure, but it's entirely unfair
[01:59] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: yeah, i know.  i try to do stuff on it too
[02:00] <Hobbsee> so does bddebian
[02:00] <crimsun> LaserJock: it's hardly one-man; at least four other people are knee-deep in it
[02:01] <Hobbsee> crimsun's just the one who does most of it
[02:02] <imbrandon> oh there is a god ( other than crimsun ) http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/1/15/6629
[02:03] <crimsun> imbrandon: I'm no god; that's you, Jordan and Barry
[02:04] <crimsun> I'm a mere peon
[02:04] <imbrandon> phsaw
[02:04] <LaserJock> +1 to that
[02:05] <imbrandon> man that thing is a work of art though, backlit nintendo wording, full game cart slot on the back, extra controller port, etc etc etc
[02:05] <crimsun> see, even LaserJock agrees that I'm a peon :-)
[02:05] <LaserJock> no
[02:06] <LaserJock> I didn't
[02:06] <LaserJock> I agreed to imbrandon's phsaw
[02:06] <LaserJock> I seriously don't know how you can do them that fast though
[02:06] <crimsun> it's bug crack
[02:07] <somerville32> Oh nifty
[02:07] <somerville32> Linux bypasses the security features on my mp3 player by mounting it as a usb disk
[02:07] <imbrandon> heh
[02:20] <crimsun> for which?
[02:20] <somerville32> The archives were pretty much cleaned out this morning
[02:20] <somerville32> lol
[02:20] <somerville32> s/archives/queue
[02:23] <persia> Does anyone know the executable for the replacement of gnome-help-browser?
[02:24] <LaserJock> yelp
[02:25] <LaserJock> I would think
[02:26] <persia> LaserJock: Thanks.  That even seems to have roughly the same behaviour.  (Packages should be updated at least once each year).
[02:26] <LaserJock> heh, and gnome wants to replace yelp sometime too
[02:27] <LaserJock> Project Mallard
[02:30] <persia> LaserJock: Oooh!  Of course, I'll have to learn all new things, but I hope for fewer annoying errors.
[02:33] <LaserJock> crimsun: so how come there are 109 subscribed bugs for u-u-s?
[02:34] <LaserJock> are we just waiting on ubuntu-archive?
[02:34] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: a lot that are for debian?
[02:35] <LaserJock> some for sure
[02:35] <LaserJock> but there are quite a few "Unconfirmed" there for Ubuntu
[02:35] <crimsun> LaserJock: there are more; I've unsubbed some
[02:35] <LaserJock> I just wondered if I was missing something
[02:37] <crimsun> some are blocked on procedure
[02:38] <crimsun> for instance, 47663 needs a correct debdiff and a clearer explanation of testing
[02:38] <LaserJock> ok, but any Ubuntu bug that's set to "Unconfirmed" should be up for grabs, right?
[02:40] <crimsun> some like 45852 just seem to be targetted to the wrong source package
[02:41] <crimsun> some like 53826 are missubscribed period
[02:41] <crimsun> (git-core is main, not universe)
[02:42] <crimsun> so the Unconfirmed marker is actually misleading
[02:42] <crimsun> you have to drill down and read each bug
[02:43] <LaserJock> ok, what about 79308 and 78150
[02:43] <crimsun> bug 79308
[02:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79308 in enigma "[Merge Request]  Please merge enigma from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79308
[02:45] <crimsun> bug 78150
[02:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78150 in kchmviewer "[Fesity MoM]  Merge Kcmhviewer_2.7-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78150
[02:46] <crimsun> the former's processable, though I've not tested it
[02:46] <crimsun> the latter should be reworked
[02:46] <crimsun> ^^ nixternal 
[02:48] <crimsun> as for 77009, I'm not at all convinced it's correct
[02:48] <ajmitch> I wonder why there's no cron job that alerted me to a degraded RAID array
[02:48] <bddebian> Heya troop
[02:49] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I'm not really sure of those ice*
[02:49] <persia> We've been promoted!  We're no longer only a gang!
[02:49] <ajmitch> I guess it wasn't added in sarge
[02:49] <persia> bddebian: Hi
[02:49] <LaserJock> crimsun: what's wrong with kchmviewer debdiff, if you have time?
[02:49] <crimsun> LaserJock: well, most of them are feasible, but a few make me twist my eyebrows, like the ->mozilla-browser bit
[02:50] <bddebian> Heya persia
[02:50] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah
[02:50] <crimsun> LaserJock: a few of the changes are pretty superfluous (does debian/compat really need to be bumped?)
[02:50] <LaserJock> ok, yeah
[02:51] <imbrandon> zomg
[02:52] <LaserJock> imbrandon: what?
[02:52] <imbrandon> my little brother ( 26 years old , but still "little brother" ) just im'd me that he made a myspace
[02:52] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:53] <LaserJock> I still haven't figure out what exactly myspace does
[02:53] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: mine's better :P
[02:53] <imbrandon> http://www.myspace.com/selfdestruct0420
[02:53] <imbrandon> ^^ just as bad as the other peoples
[02:53] <LaserJock> wow, awesome crimsun and bddebian. We had 6 packages uploaded from REVU today
[02:55] <bddebian> w00t
[02:58] <bddebian> Heh
[02:58] <Hobbsee> crimsun: LaserJock anyone doing bug 79308?  the enigma one?
[02:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79308 in enigma "[Merge Request]  Please merge enigma from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79308
[02:59] <ajmitch> bddebian: ever want to be doing a random check of the system & notice that the RAID array with some data on it is in degraded mode, and has been for awhile?
[02:59] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I was thinking of doing enigma, but if you want it fine. I'm got some other things I'm working on too
[02:59] <ajmitch> should be simple enough to readd the faulty device to the array & get it to start reconstructing, but still...
[03:01] <bddebian> ajmitch: yep :-)
[03:02] <LaserJock> now, is it right that a _source.changes file is not good to leave around with public access but a binary .changes is ok?
[03:03] <ajmitch> since you can't do binary uploads to ubuntu, and debian will reject it if it's the wrong distro, it wouldn't affect quite as much
[03:05] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: okay
[03:07] <bddebian> Hmm, anyone think I should upload bug #54287
[03:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54287 in libcm "version too old" [Wishlist,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54287
[03:09] <bddebian> And why is u-u-s assigned Main bugs? :)
[03:10] <bddebian> Gah NM, I'm a crackhead
[03:11] <somerville32> Eww
[03:11] <crimsun> SURE, go ahead
[03:11] <crimsun> :-)
[03:12] <Hobbsee> bddebian: because people are silly :P
[03:13] <bddebian> crimsun: ?
[03:14] <crimsun> bddebian: being facetious
[03:15] <bddebian> crimsun: Ah. 
[03:16] <ajmitch> how could you, crimsun?
[03:16] <bddebian> I am getting ready to upload this sucker so speak now or forever hold your peace :-)
[03:20] <bddebian> And?
[03:20] <ajmitch> it's crap
[03:20] <bddebian> What's crap?
[03:20] <ajmitch> you were talking about libcm
[03:20] <ajmitch> unless it's been updated properly since I last looked?
[03:20] <bddebian> Yeah.  It's already in the archive so how much more crap can a newer version be? :-)
[03:21] <ajmitch> on your head :)
[03:21] <bddebian> fuck it then
[03:22] <somerville32> !ohmy
[03:22] <ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
[03:22] <ajmitch> feel free to ignore me, I'm not a developer
[03:24] <bddebian> ajmitch: Neither am I so what's your point?
[03:25] <ajmitch> oh you are
[03:27] <crimsun> 79196 is simply baffling
[03:27] <bddebian> ajmitch: I am?
[03:28] <LaserJock> crimsun: radeon driver with Intel graphics cards?
[03:28] <LaserJock> bddebian: last time I checked you were, as is ajmitch 
[03:29] <LaserJock> bddebian: you asked and ajmitch gave a reply. If you feel OK with uploading it go for it
[03:29] <LaserJock> if not, don't ;-)
[03:33] <crimsun> LaserJock: no, the bug stack is just baffling
[03:34] <crimsun> I gotta deduce whether beryl/compiz, x11proto-render, or xorg-server is to blame
[03:35] <Hobbsee> crimsun: stay away from the forums. they're bad!
[03:36] <ajmitch> crimsun: blame compiz
[03:36] <bddebian> git-core is main right?
[03:36] <crimsun> bddebian: ja
[03:37] <bddebian> So why are we subscribed to: bug #53826 ?
[03:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53826 in git-core "contains a redundant copy of subprocess.py" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53826
[03:37] <crimsun> bddebian: see above ;)
[03:37] <somerville32> crimsun: Did you upload catfish?
[03:37] <bddebian> See above what?
[03:37] <crimsun> no, Toadstool did
[03:37] <somerville32> crimsun: I just got an e-mail saying Jrmie Corbier uploaded it
[03:37] <somerville32> Is that Toadstool?
[03:38] <crimsun> bddebian: 
[03:38] <crimsun> 20:41 < crimsun> some like 53826 are missubscribed period
[03:38] <crimsun> 20:41 < crimsun> (git-core is main, not universe)
[03:38] <bddebian> Oh, missed that, sorry
[03:38] <somerville32> yes
[03:38] <ajmitch> that 'redundant copy' is probably there so that git-core could have stuff working on python2.3
[03:39] <ajmitch> something inherited from debian, I'd assume
[03:41] <persia> I've finally gotten a new version of libjsw to work (although there is still one Debian bug, and an error if the envionment is funny).  Following Hobbsee's guidance, I've uploaded to REVU, but I have yet to file a bug.  What sort of bug should I file for a new upstream and some packaging fixes to address multiple other outstanding bugs?  Do I need one at all?
[03:41] <Hobbsee> just say that in the bug?
[03:41] <Hobbsee> for reference, yes.  include the link ot the revu package in the bug report
[03:42] <persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.  I'll file a "new upstream version" bug with the comments, link to REVU, and diff -Nur debian/.
[03:42] <Hobbsee> persia: nice :)
[03:42] <Hobbsee> persia: if you could attach the diff -Nur debian/. as a file, that'd be great.  launchpad sucks for reading a diff
[03:43] <persia> Hobbsee: Of course (persia has had enough fun with LP diffs).
[03:43] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:43] <bddebian> crimsun: I guess I should give up trying to keep up with you eh?
[03:44] <bddebian> ajmitch: Well Debian has 1.4.4.4 now anyhow
[03:48] <LaserJock> hmm, this might be a silly question, does /etc/hosts.{deny,allow} apply to incoming HTTP requests?
[03:49] <ajmitch> no
[03:49] <ajmitch> they are used by tcp wrappers (used by inetd)
[03:49] <ajmitch> or by any program that may wish to make use of them, like nfs
[03:50] <ajmitch> I don't think there's an apache module that uses them, though I may be wrong
[03:50] <LaserJock> k, thanks
[03:53] <Toadstool> hmm? someone said my nick? :)
[03:54] <Toadstool> heya everybody
[03:54] <ajmitch> hi Toadstool 
[03:54] <Toadstool> hi ajmitch 
[03:58] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[04:01] <Hobbsee> persia: there are still more bugs in malone
[04:01] <Toadstool> hey bddebian 
[04:02] <persia> Hobbsee: Yes, but most of them aren't organised into tasks yet.  Oh well, I'll go back to reviewing bugs in packages I've touched and .desktop fixes.
[04:03] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:03] <Hobbsee> persia: i'm sure you can fix them
[04:03] <Hobbsee> persia: you could do the unmet deps...
[04:03] <persia> Hobbsee: Unmet deps.  That'll work.  Thanks :)
[04:04] <Hobbsee> persia: you know how to generate them?
[04:04] <Toadstool> cool... no need to report the update-manager crasher :)
[04:04] <persia> Hobbsee: LaserJock told me about 6 months back, but I don't remember offhand.
[04:04] <ScottK> bddebian: Thanks again for all your help getting my packages in.  They got approved and uploaded while you were on the way home.
[04:05] <bddebian> ScottK: NP, thanks
[04:05] <persia> Hobbsee: I've got it now.  No worries.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> persia: apt-cache unmet.  apt-cache unmet | grep Package tends to work better though
[04:06] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:06] <Hobbsee> apt-cache unmet works way nicer than that :P
[04:08] <persia> Hobbsee: Huh?  Is there an option to apt-cache I'm not seeing that only shows unmet deps for universe?
[04:08] <Hobbsee> persia: not only in universe.  most are in universe, of course.  you can fix the main ones too
[04:09] <persia> Hobbsee: Last time I tried to fix main, it was pushed upstream, and took four months to deploy (Categories checking for desktop-file-validate).  I'll stick to universe: instant satisfaction.
[04:09] <Hobbsee> persia: well, unmet deps are kinda different.  but fair enough
[04:33] <ajmitch> python-wxgtk2.6 ftbfs on amd64, broken packages for build-deps
[04:35] <bddebian> So fix it :)
[04:36] <ajmitch> read what I wrote, and the build log
[06:41] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: did you do enigma?
[06:42] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: no.  i've assigned it to myself.  the patch is fine, i just havent grabbed the debian source and uploaded it yet
[06:46] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: ok, just wanted to make sure somebody was doing something ;-)
[06:47] <Hobbsee> LaserJock:  :)
[09:01] <persia> Does anyone have a good example of a bug to remove a binary package from the archive (no longer built by a retained source), or know of documentation to create such a bug?
[09:01] <tepsipakki> could some MOTU ack a couple of sync-requests?
[09:02] <tepsipakki> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/farsight/+bug/79392
[09:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79392 in farsight "Please sync farsight (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[09:02] <tepsipakki> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmail-notify/+bug/76752
[09:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76752 in gmail-notify "Please sync gmail-notify (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[09:02] <persia> tepsipakki: Did you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors?  The queue is being tracked fairly closely these days.
[09:03] <tepsipakki> oh
[09:03] <tepsipakki> I'll do that
[09:04] <persia> tepsipakki: I understand that guidance documentation is under development, but the advised workflow is to only subscribe u-u-s to start, and they will subscribe u-a-a when they acknowledge the bug.
[09:04] <tepsipakki> yep, I was advised about it a minute ago ;)
[09:07] <\sh> moins
[09:19] <\sh> packages with unmet deps, can we still force an rebuild with XbuildY as version ?
[09:24] <persia> \sh: skencil was last rebuilt as XbuildY 12th January, so there is precedent.
[09:33] <dholbach> good morning
[09:34] <ajmitch> morning dholbach 
[09:34] <dholbach> heya ajmitch
[09:34] <dholbach> hey LongPointyStick
[09:34] <LongPointyStick> hey dholbach, ajmitch 
[09:34] <LongPointyStick> :)
[09:34] <ajmitch> uh oh
[09:38] <\sh> ajmitch: would you do me a favour? please package PloneOOoTransform ,-)
[09:39] <\sh> ugly piece of plone crap
[09:42] <ajmitch> heh
[09:43] <\sh> how can someone run openoffice with xvfb on a server...
[09:44] <ajmitch> nasty
[09:48] <\sh> ajmitch: check this http://plone.org/products/ploneoootransforms
[09:48] <\sh> ajmitch:especially read the install.txt inside the source tar ball ,)
[10:03] <white> lucas: regarding utnubu, can you configure your scripts in a way so that they send a mail about new packages once a day to utnubu-discuss?
[10:06] <\sh> ajmitch: get well asap :)
[10:11] <\sh> siretart: ping.boson-base ftbfs because of missing UTS_RELEASE (i thought setting linux-libc-dev will help, but it doesn't)
[10:11] <persia> \sh: boson-base is gone in debian, and upstream is two versions ahead.
[10:12] <persia> siretart: Is there a reason boson is out, or may I do a 0.13 package?
[10:12] <\sh> persia: that's why I asked siretart as debian upstream maintainer ;)
[10:12] <\sh> persia: but boson-data is 0.12 (just like debian) but boson-base is not ;)
[10:12] <\sh> and upstream has 0.13 fright
[10:13] <\sh> s/f//
[10:13] <tepsipakki> themuso: ping
[10:13] <siretart> puh, I don't really maintain boson, I removed myself from uploaders field already
[10:14] <siretart> \sh: there is an updated boson package in experimental, I think we should go with that one for feisty
[10:14] <siretart> IIRC that is a new upstream version, with many fixed bugs, but not suitable for the etch release
[10:15] <\sh> I'll give it a try...need to find now a server...which doesn't have a location in our database *sigh*
[10:15] <\sh> brb
[10:19] <\sh> re
[10:21] <\sh> siretart: you are still in the uploaders field even in the experimental package ;)
[10:29] <siretart> \sh: grrr. need to change that soon
[10:29] <siretart>      boson |     0.13-1 |  experimental | source, amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[10:30] <siretart> I think that one should be fine for feisty, I think
[10:31] <\sh> siretart: it's building ;)
[10:31] <persia> 0.13-1 FTBFS for me (AMD64).  Shall I try to fix that?
[10:31] <\sh> persia: for edgy we didn't build amd64 packages at all...so as a work around we can remove amd64 ;)
[10:31] <siretart> hm. works in debian
[10:31] <siretart> perhaps again toolchain foo?
[10:32] <\sh> siretart: -fstack-protection? ,-)
[10:32] <persia> siretart: Perhaps python change?
[10:32] <palski> crimsun: ping
[10:32] <siretart> persia: btw, I need to remove the rwlock patch from oops
[10:32] <persia> Error is cannot convert int* to Py_ssize_t*
[10:32] <siretart> persia: it makes oops aborting after 30 minutes, already got a bug report about that
[10:33] <persia> siretart: Ah.  No worries.
[10:33] <siretart> \sh: for oops it was worse. it uses an private rwlock implementation, which doesn't build with glibc2.5 :/
[10:33] <siretart> which we have in feisty, of course :(
[10:35] <\sh> siretart: nasty
[10:35] <siretart> yeah :/
[10:35] <persia> siretart: I'll start running oops all day here, and see if I can reproduce.  If not, perhaps Ubuntu just shouldn't sync with -5?
[10:36] <\sh> siretart: we had problems with kernels < 2.6.19
[10:36] <\sh> siretart:mysql was bugging because of a futex_wait problem...and in 2.6.19.2 is just gone
[10:37] <siretart> persia: or just add the patch from -4, yes
[10:37] <\sh> siretart: we did some very nice load test with sles and ubuntu..and both are failing ... now ubuntu with a 2.6.19.2 performs very good
[10:42] <persia> siretart: I'll grab the patch from -4 and test for a while then.
[10:42] <\sh> siretart: btw...are you going to fosdem?
[10:45] <siretart> \sh: I was asked by a collegue, I'm still considering it
[10:59] <\sh> persia: after fixing the problem with the int typecast, I get the "error: UTS_RELEASE was not declared in this scobe
[10:59] <\sh> persia: but even build-dep on linux-libc-dev doesn't help
[11:00] <\sh> persia: boson 0.13-1 ,-)
[11:01] <persia> \sh: Sorry.  Was distracted by oops.  I'll add it to my list and try to make a patch so it can compile this evening or tomorrow (unless you are really excited about it).
[11:05] <persia> \sh: If I can get it to compile, shall I just post a patch, or should I also try to un-native the package for full package submission?
[11:06] <crimsun> palski: pong
[11:07] <persia> crimsun: You're too fast!  I'm still testing...
[11:10] <palski> crimsun: nothing anymore, I already added my comment to bug #79059
[11:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79059 in gnome-hearts "[SRU]  gnome-hearts crashes on startup (edgy)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79059
[11:11] <StevenK> persia: Ping.
[11:11] <persia> StevenK: Is now a good time to fix the menu?
[11:11] <StevenK> persia: Yup
[11:12] <persia> StevenK: OK.  How can I help?  Do you need docs, or a patch?  If a patch, where can I get that to be patched?
[11:14] <\sh> persia: un-nativy it ,-)
[11:14] <crimsun> palski: personally I feel mor
[11:14] <crimsun> arg
[11:14] <crimsun> palski: I feel more comfortable with a simpler debdiff (RE: 79059)
[11:14] <StevenK> persia: I'd prefer a patch, and an explanation
[11:14] <persia> \sh: queued.  Depending on difficulty, I'll submit something tomorrow or the next day.
[11:15] <persia> StevenK: That sounds good to me.  What exactly are we looking at?
[11:15] <crimsun> palski: please test the suggested change
[11:15] <\sh> persia: the typecast errors you can get along with changing int to long...but UTS_RELEASE is set in /usr/include/linux/version.h and it's included in this piece of source..so I don't see the problem...
[11:16] <palski> crimsun: I'll do that later today
[11:16] <StevenK> persia: Okay, so I'd like this package to provide a menu entry under System called "About Ubuntu" that launches about-window
[11:16] <crimsun> palski: ok, thanks.
[11:16] <StevenK> (A menu entry called that already exists too, just to make it harder)
[11:17] <StevenK> persia: You can use bzr to grab http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stevenk/about-window/dev
[11:19] <persia> StevenK: Grabbing.  Do you want two items that say "About Ubuntu", or do you want to replace the current item?
[11:26] <persia> \sh: At least for me, /usr/include/linux/version.h doesn't include any definition of UTS_RELEASE.
[11:28] <\sh> persia: ah yes, I was using dapper and not my feisty chroot :(
[11:28] <\sh> that's as well a problem during my vmware install on edgy and feisty
[11:29] <\sh> wonder why
[11:29] <persia> \sh: I need to head off for a bit, but I'll chase the code when I return.
[11:29] <\sh> it's not set anymore
[11:29] <\sh> persia: I'm poking #ubuntu-kernel..so if there is a workaround, I'll prepare a patch for 0.13-1
[11:30] <persia> StevenK: The simple answer is to start with the /usr/share/applications/ubuntu-about.desktop provided by gnome-panel-data, and change the Exec clause.  I'll make a patch when I return.
[11:30] <StevenK> persia: I did that, which didn't work.
[11:38] <crimsun> \sh: upstream kernel change
[11:39] <crimsun> it's apparently supposed to be in linux/utsrelease.h, and it's not exported by `make headers_install'
[11:39] <\sh> argl...how can we solve this problem ?
[11:48] <persia> StevenK: I've replicated that locally now, and I'm not seeing what I expect in /etc/xdg/menus.  Let me get back to you on this (and thanks for the interesting .desktop question: most are trivial).
[11:51] <persia> \sh: That appears to be a compile-time value only.  If you don't find something else, I think we can get it from a local include generated by debian/rules from uname-a.
[11:54] <\sh> persia: ok..trying a workaround...give me a sec ;)
[11:56] <StevenK> persia: Heh, any time. :-)
[01:04] <persia> StevenK: I found it.  The issue is that the System menu is not being generated by the xdg trees, but is hardcoded in gnome-panel/panel-menu-items.c.  If you want to replace the "About Ubuntu", you either need to alter the path used by this code, Replaces gnome-panel for /usr/share/applications/ubuntu-about.desktop, or have gnome-panel drop the .desktop file and depend on about-window.
[01:15] <persia> StevenK: You might also try something with dpkg-divert, but I'm not really familiar enough with that to feel comfortable suggesting specifics.
[01:15] <\sh> did I say that I hate quilt?
[01:16] <\sh> and I hate cmake
[01:16] <azeem> what's wrong with quilt?
[01:17] <\sh> quilt new, quilt edit, quilt refresh, quilt pop ... too difficult for me...
[01:17] <persia> \sh: I hope your desire for RTS makes up for that :)
[01:18] <\sh> and cmake...why is -D not -D like in make...no -D as in make you have to add to CMakeLists.txt as add_definitions(-Dfoo=bar) ugh
[01:23] <siretart> \sh: something you love? ;)
[01:26] <\sh> siretart: pure diffing and patching is my love ,)
[01:31] <StevenK> persia: Right. What I might do is talk to seb128 about it.
[01:32] <persia> StevenK: Unless you want to do something dark and secret with dpkg-divert, that's your best route to success :)
[02:19] <crimsun> imbrandon: n/m regarding rebuilding beryl 0.1.2-0ubuntu1, already fixed the cause (mesa)
[02:31] <segfault> when fixing universe packages, can i upload it directly to revu?
[02:33] <crimsun> existing source packages in universe should use launchpad
[02:33] <crimsun> file a bug against the source package, and attach a debdiff
[02:33] <crimsun> then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[02:35] <segfault> humm, ok
[02:36] <segfault> even if i uploaded it before?
[02:38] <crimsun> revu is reserved for new source packages
[02:48] <raphink> is it ?
[02:49] <raphink> I'm fine with updates and merges going through revu personally
[02:49] <raphink> they too need to be reviewed
[02:51] <white> siretart: thanks for the mail, great idea, what do you think about adding those information to REVU or strongly recommend it there as well for new packages?
[02:53] <siretart> white: I need to check this with a MOTU Meeting, but in general, I think that would be the correct place
[02:53] <siretart> white: but first, that wiki-list-app needs to designed and actually written ;)
[02:56] <crimsun> I don't have a problem with revu being used as such, either, but I understood lp to be the "correct" place.
[02:57] <siretart> yeah, we decided to abandon REVU in favor of launchpad anyway.
[02:57] <siretart> at least that what I understood
[02:58] <white> siretart: great, because if the people directly get pointed to that on places like REVU the chance of getting things back is higher :)
[02:59] <siretart> white: the space is quite limited there. I'm happy to link to some wiki page from there
[03:00] <white> i am going on vacation soon and the relocate to .au anyway, so there is time to code :P
[03:00] <siretart> wow :)
[03:00] <siretart> I'm starting my new job on february - I hoped that I would have way more time in january, though
[03:01] <siretart> long story short: it was big luck that I got that job anyway :)
[03:05] <white> siretart: you should have come to us :)
[03:08] <siretart> white: who are 'you'?
[03:08] <siretart> credativ?
[03:09] <white> yes
[03:10] <siretart> ah. Well, I was considering writing my master thesis there ;)
[03:10] <siretart> now I'll stay at university
[03:10] <white> i heard about that, but the topic was not compatible with current stuff here :(
[03:10] <siretart> yes, I imagined
[03:11] <siretart> white: are you coming to CLT?
[03:12] <white> siretart: i will relocate to melb in february and when i come back in summer for 3 weeks i will probably spend most of the time with family stuff
[03:14] <siretart> white: ah, I see
[03:14] <siretart> white: you are leaving germany completely?
[03:15] <white> well i am studying in melbourne, so i am just here at home and working during the vacations :)
[03:15] <siretart> oh, nice!
[03:15] <siretart> :)
[03:53] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:22] <siretart> hey bddebian 
[04:22] <bddebian> Hi siretart
[04:23] <siretart> bddebian: I tweaked the sudo configuration on tiber a bit, now all users on tiber should be able to resync the revu keyring, see /etc/motd
[04:23] <bddebian> Ah cool
[04:33] <tepsipakki> Hi all.. I'm looking for advocates for the TB meeting this evening :)
[04:34] <tepsipakki> hoping that my application for ubuntu-dev would be ack'd..
[04:38] <tepsipakki> now where did everyone go?-)
[04:42] <proppy> bou
[04:42] <dholbach> hey proppy
[04:42] <proppy> hey hey
[04:45] <proppy> we fall in many python - version packaging hole today at work
[04:46] <proppy> when we install a new python version (i.e 2.5), we had to --reinstall all the dependent python-* packages, to allow us to rebuild another
[04:46] <proppy> is there sort of virtual package that provide this facility, or should i spec it ?
[05:33] <\sh> hooray...boson works ;)
[05:33] <\sh> fixed
[05:33] <\sh> now for boson-data etc.
[06:31] <palski> siretart and crimsun what about bug #79059, which way is better? you decide =)
[06:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79059 in gnome-hearts "[SRU]  gnome-hearts crashes on startup (edgy)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79059
[06:35] <siretart> \sh: the one from experimental?
[06:35] <siretart> palski: I'd say you have +3
[06:35] <siretart> (green light for uploading)
[06:35] <\sh> siretart: yepp, patched it to compile smoothly ;)
[06:36] <\sh> siretart: we can sync boson-data and boson-music without any harm, and I'll upload boson 0.13-1ubuntu1
[06:36] <\sh> package names were changed from boson-base to boson
[06:37] <palski> siretart: yes, but crimsun said that I should test the other way too
[06:41] <\sh> siretart: and it compiles on amd64, too
[06:42] <LaserJock> so etch still isn't out?
[06:43] <zul> LaserJock: surprised?
[06:44] <LaserJock> it's like waiting for a baby to be born
[06:45] <LaserJock> or alternatively, riding in a car in a cross-country road trip
[06:45] <LaserJock> zul: well, tbh, I expected a little more solid timeline this far into it
[06:45] <bddebian> heh
[06:46] <LaserJock> I mean, I know the whole "when it's ready" thing
[06:46] <LaserJock> but I would think they would know "when it's ready" more than like a day ahead of time ;-)
[06:47] <siretart> \sh: cool
[06:47] <siretart> LaserJock: I think etch is currently block by d-i, which is in turn blocked by the kernel
[06:48] <\sh> siretart: just uploaded..think it will lay a bit in NEW because of the new packagename
[06:48] <siretart> LaserJock: wait for d-i RC2, and then + 2-4 weeks for the etch release
[06:48] <siretart> \sh: you can check the NEW queue nowadays in launchpad
[06:48] <zul> LaserJock: LaserJock: and pigs fly
[06:49] <\sh> siretart: i know...but I can't pull the trigger to "un"-new ,)
[06:50] <LaserJock> siretart: ah
[06:50] <LaserJock> thanks
[06:51] <siretart> \sh: poke Mithrandir ;)
[06:52] <\sh> siretart: fck lp...what was the url to NEW queue?
[06:53] <geser> \sh: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+queue
[06:55] <\sh> thx...and it isn't in the new queue...looks good :)
[06:56] <siretart> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+queue
[06:57] <siretart> ah, too late
[06:57] <siretart> \sh: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+queue?queue_state=2&queue_text=boson
[06:58] <siretart> it is in the ACCEPTED queue
[06:58] <siretart> anyway, I'm afk shopping, bbl
[07:34] <ajmitch> morning
[07:35] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[07:35] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch, bddebian 
[07:35] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[07:37] <ajmitch> will there be a TB meeting today or not, I wonder?
[07:37] <LaserJock> ohhh
[07:38] <LaserJock> I sure hope so
[07:38] <LaserJock> we need our Council Grayskull
[07:38] <_Enchained> Hi all
[07:40] <zul> i wanna know who is on the council :)
[07:40] <_Enchained> bddebian: can you archive the cryopid upload on revu ?
[07:40] <_Enchained> I've asked a sync from debian
[07:41] <bddebian> Sure
[07:41] <_Enchained> or delete it?
[07:41] <_Enchained> ...I don't know
[07:41] <_Enchained> thanks
[07:42] <\sh> core++ fixed for amd64
[07:42] <ajmitch> zul: it's a Mystery
[07:42] <\sh> and for others too ;)
[07:43] <bddebian> _Enchained: archived
[07:43] <_Enchained> ok thx
[07:43] <zul> ajmitch: i know
[07:45] <LaserJock> zul: yeah, I don't know why the nominations aren't on -motu
[07:45] <zul> maybe dholbach is too busy
[07:46] <ajmitch> maybe the positions are getting auctioned off to whoever can bribe dholbach the most :)
[07:46] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:47] <LaserJock> I'm on the losing end of that I'm pretty sure
[07:49] <ajmitch> broke student?
[07:49] <LaserJock> broke married grad student
[07:50] <ajmitch> even worse
[07:50] <LaserJock> unless your spouse is loaded ;-)
[07:50] <LaserJock> mine is not, so yeah
[07:50] <_Enchained> bddebian: do you have a few minutes ?
[07:57] <bddebian> Not currently sorry.  Possibly in a little bit.
[07:57] <Adri2000> does anyone understand "What does this do to your desktop?" ?
[07:58] <Adri2000> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=407042
[07:58] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 407042 in debian-reference "Please add a .desktop file" [Wishlist,Open]  
[08:07] <LaserJock> Adri2000: well, it adds a menu item for debian-reference to they System menu in Gnome and KDE
[08:07] <Adri2000> LaserJock: 
[08:07] <Adri2000> oops
[08:07] <Adri2000> LaserJock: *I* filed this bug report :)
[08:07] <LaserJock> I know
[08:08] <LaserJock> but I was replying to your question
[08:08] <LaserJock> although I don't really understand why debian-reference needs a .desktop
[08:10] <Adri2000> I've actually never installed this package, I filed a bug report in debian to reduce the ubuntu/debian diff
[08:11] <LaserJock> well, we should consider whether we should keep the diff
[08:13] <\sh> fck..boson needs a conditional compile flag...
[08:13] <Adri2000> LaserJock: but I still don't understand this question from the maintainer, doesn't he know what a .desktop file is?
[08:14] <LaserJock> Adri2000: perhaps not
[08:14] <LaserJock> Adri2000: debian has their own menu system
[08:15] <LaserJock> Adri2000: but it does look like it actually would do something
[08:18] <Adri2000> answering him with a freedesktop.org url...
[08:20] <LaserJock> Adri2000: just say it adds menu items to Gnome and KDE menus
[08:20] <Adri2000> A .desktop file adds a menu entry in the GNOME/KDE/whatever menu.
[08:20] <Adri2000> See http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Standards_2fdesktop_2dentry_2dspec
[08:24] <LaserJock> oh man, I hate Windows
[08:24] <LaserJock> I'm trying to admin a Windows 2000 box for a labmate
[08:24] <LaserJock> turned it on today and it's got some virus
[08:24] <LaserJock> tried to updated virus scanner (got a Code Red email from uni IT)
[08:25] <LaserJock> but it wouldn't install until I closed the old virus scanner
[08:25] <LaserJock> but I couldn't do that without using the Task thingy
[08:25] <LaserJock> but then the installer wouldn't work
[08:25] <LaserJock> so I decided to reboot
[08:26] <LaserJock> and now it's hung  "Saving your settings ..."
[08:26] <imbrandon> darn winderz
[08:31] <LaserJock> I guess I'll have to hard reboot
[08:31] <geser> LaserJock: replace it with Ubuntu :)
[08:32] <LaserJock> geser: well, the problem is the new grad student doesn't want anything but Windows
[08:32] <LaserJock> I offered
[08:32] <LaserJock> I've got a feisty machine kvm'd to his keyboard and monitor
[08:32] <LaserJock> the rest of us have imacs
[08:33] <zul> not much of a grad student then ;)
[08:33] <Adri2000> zakame: ping
[08:34] <LaserJock> zul: I'll get him, don't worry ;-)
[08:35] <ajmitch> LaserJock: he's new
[08:35] <ajmitch> he doesn't get a choice
[08:36] <LaserJock> well, my boss gave him the choice, not me
[08:36] <LaserJock> besides, that's the other machine is my work pbuilder machine
[08:36] <geser> LaserJock: do you think it's ok to ask the TB how the Maintainer mangling in source packages is supposed to happen? (if time permits)
[08:36] <ajmitch> daniel_!
[08:36] <LaserJock> geser: it might
[08:37] <LaserJock> geser: you might ask a TB memeber real quick
[08:37] <LaserJock> geser: it could be we just need Matt to make a decision
[08:37] <Adri2000> zakame: do you still maintain opendchub?
[08:39] <Gwaihir> Hi all...
[08:39] <Gwaihir> I'm an Ubuntu Itlian trnslator...
[08:39] <dholbach> ajmitch: haha
[08:39] <Gwaihir> and I have a problem!
[08:39] <dholbach> ajmitch: we'll have the TB meeting quite soon :)
[08:40] <Gwaihir> me and another guy have set up a new translation for a package...
[08:40] <dholbach> ajmitch: *snort*
[08:40] <Gwaihir> and we would like to have it in Feisty
[08:40] <l3on_> hi all
[08:41] <Gwaihir> the problem is... if we upload the translation in gnome SVN it's not going to make it
[08:41] <Gwaihir> in feisty...
[08:41] <Gwaihir> is it possible to include the new PO for this package?
[08:42] <Gwaihir> the package in question is firestarter
[08:42] <DktrKranz> we planned to generate a debdiff with .po file included and open a new bug report
[08:43] <ajmitch> except I don't know how rosetta works with universe packages
[08:43] <Gwaihir> the package in question is in universe
[08:43] <ajmitch> yes, I know firestarter
[08:43] <Gwaihir> rosetta doesn't handle universe's packages
[08:44] <\sh> hmm?
[08:44] <ajmitch> hi \sh 
[08:44] <imbrandon> sure it does now, last i heard
[08:44] <imbrandon> ( rosetta and uni packages )
[08:44] <\sh> moins ajmitch, feeling better?
[08:44] <Gwaihir> imbrandon: really?
[08:45] <imbrandon> Gwaihir, yes, for some months now
[08:45] <\sh> imbrandon: did rosetta make a diff between main and universe?
[08:45] <imbrandon> \sh, before it did, now it dosent
[08:45] <DktrKranz> if so, it sounds great
[08:45] <Gwaihir> imbrandon: I didn't know...
[08:46] <imbrandon> Gwaihir, it was in the ubuntu news letter a few months ago as one of the main topics
[08:46] <imbrandon> like 1 month before edgy was released iirc
[08:46] <ajmitch> \sh: the difference being whether the packages were imported into rosetta for translation, I think
[08:47] <ajmitch> imbrandon: #launchpad is reporting no
[08:47] <ajmitch> so I think kiko probably knows fairly well
[08:47] <imbrandon> hrm , i could have swore it is/was because we had a big todo about it
[08:47] <Gwaihir> I asked kiko right now...
[08:47] <enyc> imbrandon: hrrm intiresting my patch for qpsmtpdd init has been merged with never debian upstream source zersion...   is this called a 'delta' now?
[08:47] <enyc> imbrandon: (in qpsmtpd 0.32-5ubuntu1)
[08:47] <Gwaihir> he says Rosetta doesn't handle universe...
[08:49] <Gwaihir> anyway... firestarter is not a product registered in launchapd...
[08:49] <imbrandon> enyc, what are you asking ? heh
[08:50] <imbrandon> you have a patch to that package and it was adopted upstream ?
[08:50] <siretart> \sh: you needed to patch boson for amd64? what was it?
[08:50] <imbrandon> a "delta" is any diffrece between a debian and ubuntu package
[08:50] <enyc> imbrandon: Im asking ef the 3-line patch used-in-ubuntu is now called a 'delta' -- it has NOT been taken upstream (debian or source)
[08:50] <imbrandon> enyc, correct
[08:51] <enyc> imbrandon: its been merged with a more recent  debian version... i.e. the 'delta has been carried' if I understand this correctly
[08:51] <\sh> siretart: 1. int <=> long (I had to fix the patch again, because 32bit archs are complaining about long int typecast)...2. sed -i /UTS_RELEASE/\"`uname -r`\"/ boson/info/boinfo_linux.cpp ,-)
[08:51] <\sh> siretart: give me 5 mins and I upload new version of the patch
[08:51] <enyc> imbrandon: the funny thing is the archive administrators still have not uploaded the 2 ~proposed versions which have all had 3 +1 's by universe-sponsors !
[08:52] <siretart> \sh: any idea why it did build in debian?
[08:52] <enyc> imbrandon: (SRU fix)
[08:52] <\sh> siretart: the sed command I start in debian/rules of course...a patch to CMakeLists.txt: add_definition(-DUTS_RELEASE=`uname -r`) didn't help and resulted in an error
[08:52] <ajmitch> enyc: MOTUs upload, archive admins let them into -proposed
[08:52] <ajmitch> have they been uploaded by a MOTU?
[08:52] <\sh> siretart: different tool-chain...more strict type checking with our toolchain..that's what I would say
[08:52] <DktrKranz> suppose rosetta doesn't manage Universe packages
[08:53] <DktrKranz> what should be the best way to implement a translation?
[08:53] <\sh> siretart: like the wine problem with -fstack-protector ,-)
[08:53] <DktrKranz> in Universe packages, of course
[08:53] <siretart> \sh: do you think we should include that patch in debian as well?
[08:54] <enyc> ajmitch: err... see 77485 and 78005 .. i think they both have been uploaded as required
[08:54] <enyc> ajmitch: unless I misunderstand something
[08:54] <\sh> siretart: could be an idea to not reinvent the wheel again...and it's definitly a problem of upstream, because of missing 64bit programming knowledge
[08:55] <siretart> \sh: care to send the patch upstream?
[08:55] <siretart> thats maybe even better that than via debian games team
[08:55] <\sh> siretart: do you have an bugzilla account there?
[08:56] <ajmitch> enyc: right, it does look like it was uploaded, so we just wait :)
[08:56] <siretart> nope. but isn't that the kde bugzilla?
[08:56] <ajmitch> hi raphink 
[08:56] <siretart> hi ajmitch, hi raphink 
[08:56] <enyc> ajmitch: ok fine... been quite some time now s-o I was wondering if something is wrong
[08:56] <ajmitch> 10 days isn't long, sadly
[08:57] <ajmitch> especially with things like holidays, herd 2 freeze, etc
[08:57] <raphink> hi ajmitch
[08:57] <raphink> hi siretart
[08:57] <ajmitch> universe SRU slips down the priority list
[08:58] <enyc> ajmitch: fair enought... it seems like its been there for ages to me... but i havent counted the days you see
[08:59] <enyc> ajmitch: [ok]  ;-)
[08:59] <enyc> ajmitch: thanks ;-)
[08:59] <gpocentek> evening
[08:59] <Adri2000> hi gpocentek 
[08:59] <gpocentek> hello Adri2000 ;)
[08:59] <somerville32> gpocentek, Did you get my ping last night?
[09:00] <\sh> siretart: I'll attach it upstream
[09:00] <\sh> siretart: you can take the patch for debian upstream ;)
[09:00] <siretart> \sh: thanks
[09:00] <gpocentek> somerville32: I don't think so, what was it about?
[09:00] <siretart> btw, bzr-builddeb uploaded
[09:00] <somerville32> gpocentek, The tentative release date for Xfce4 4.4 Stable
[09:01] <\sh> siretart: np...just uploaded
[09:01] <gpocentek> somerville32: has it been decided already?
[09:01] <somerville32> The tentative release date is set for the 21st of January.
[09:03] <somerville32> Oh wait
[09:03] <somerville32> It is already released
[09:04] <somerville32> oh wait
[09:04] <somerville32> haha
[09:04] <somerville32> 4.2.4 (a bug release) is released
[09:04] <somerville32> 4.4 is the 21st
[09:06] <sistpoty> hi folks
[09:06] <ajmitch> hey sistpoty 
[09:06] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[09:06] <gpocentek> hello sistpoty 
[09:06] <DarkSun88> Hi
[09:06] <sistpoty> hi gpocentek
[09:06] <ajmitch> half the TB is probably recovering from a night out at LCA
[09:06] <ajmitch> 7AM in sydney at the moment :)
[09:08] <LaserJock> :(
[09:08] <ajmitch> another 2 weeks..
[09:08] <LaserJock> noooooo
[09:09] <ajmitch> hopefully before release day, at least 
[09:09] <Adri2000> :-/
[09:09] <\sh> siretart: bugs.kde.org #140169
[09:10] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, considering Mark said "I'll have them in a week or two" at Mt. View ;-)
[09:11] <ajmitch> rather long weeks he goes by
[09:11] <somerville32> indeed
[09:12] <ajmitch> I think it's been about 3-4 weeks since the last TB meeting
[09:12] <ajmitch> unsure, but the next one may be during a distro team sprint
[09:13] <ajmitch> yeah, developer sprint in Oslo is on the release schedule
[09:13] <dholbach> wouldn't the next TB be in two weeks then?
[09:14] <ajmitch> hm right, sprint is next week?
[09:15] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ok, you've got another 2 weeks to raise bribes :)
[09:16] <\sh> ok..going to my hotel
[09:16] <\sh> good night everybody
[09:16] <sistpoty> cya \sh
[09:17] <LaserJock> stink!!
[09:17] <somerville32> LaserJock, What are you applying for?
[09:17] <LaserJock> dholbach: can the TB approve MOTU Council by email?
[09:17] <LaserJock> somerville32: nothing
[09:17] <dholbach> LaserJock: we have some unresolved issues we need to talk about
[09:17] <LaserJock> ah
[09:18] <dholbach> I added them to the agenda
[09:18] <dholbach> LaserJock: and that's not my decision - you can mail technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com if you want to voice a strong opinion
[09:18] <LaserJock> dholbach: I haven't seen anything on -motu about it. Is that for a reason?
[09:18] <dholbach> we talked about that in the last meeting, added it to the spec
[09:18] <dholbach> and it was in the meeting minutes
[09:18] <dholbach> iirc
[09:18] <siretart> \sh_away: ROCK!
[09:18] <LaserJock> dholbach: ok
[09:19] <siretart> hey sistpoty! hi dholbach!
[09:19] <sistpoty> hi siretart
[09:19] <LaserJock> dholbach: I don't have any issues, I just want it over with so the Council can get moving.
[09:19] <dholbach> LaserJock: you're not alone... trust me
[09:19] <dholbach> hi siretart, hi sistpoty
[09:19] <sistpoty> hi dholbach
[09:19] <dholbach> how's it going?
[09:20] <dholbach> :-)
[09:20] <siretart> dholbach: finally decided where I'm going to work next month! /me is happy :)
[09:20] <dholbach> siretart: WOW - nice! What is it going to be?
[09:21] <ajmitch> siretart: excellent!
[09:21] <siretart> dholbach: back at university, same place as my master thesis :)
[09:21] <ajmitch> hah
[09:21] <LaserJock> siretart: teaching?
[09:21] <ajmitch> plenty of ubuntu time?
[09:21] <dholbach> siretart: nice - so no hassle moving around
[09:21] <sistpoty> hehe
[09:21] <siretart> LaserJock: teaching and PhD in paralell
[09:21] <siretart> dholbach: yepp :)
[09:21] <LaserJock> siretart: cool
[09:21] <ajmitch> great, what's the PhD on?
[09:21] <LaserJock> siretart: that's what I'm doing this semester ;-)
[09:22] <ajmitch> it'll be great to have dr. laserjock & dr. siretart :)
[09:22] <dholbach> siretart: congratulations :)
[09:22] <sistpoty> yay, congrats siretart!
[09:22] <shawarma> ajmitch: I don't know about the rest of this part of the world, but at least in Europe, you don't get to be called dr. if you "only" have a Ph.d.
[09:22] <shawarma> ajmitch: Er.. i mean Denmark.
[09:23] <siretart> ajmitch: I don't have a topic yet, ask in 6 months ;) - but it will be related to/about system security
[09:23] <ajmitch> shawarma: that's strange, since it's a doctorate, so you get the title
[09:23] <LaserJock> shawarma: really, that stinks?
[09:24] <shawarma> ajmitch: We have doctoral degrees higher than ph.d. and only if you hold one of those, you get to be Dr. Shawarma.
[09:24] <ajmitch> NZ at least follows british custom in that regard
[09:24] <ajmitch> what are the higher degrees?
[09:24] <LaserJock> shawarma: that's weird ;-)
[09:24] <ajmitch> quite
[09:24] <LaserJock> a doctorate is a doctorate
[09:25] <shawarma> ajmitch: I'm not sure what they're called in English. When you graduate from university, you're a cand. scient. (if it's comp. sci. or math or something). The "real" doctoral degree is a dr. scient. In between, you have ph.d.
[09:25] <ajmitch> how odd
[09:25] <shawarma> ajmitch: What does it take to get a Ph.d?
[09:25] <ajmitch> we'd have a bachelors degree, masters & then phd
[09:26] <LaserJock> or some of us skip masters
[09:26] <shawarma> ajmitch: I know that those dr. scient. things are evaluated by an international board of experts and stuff. It's serious shit. :-)
[09:26] <ajmitch> yeah
[09:26] <ajmitch> masters is skipped at times
[09:26] <shawarma> LaserJock: We can't do that.
[09:26] <LaserJock> shawarma: it's still the same amount of work
[09:26] <LaserJock> kinda
[09:26] <siretart> in germany, the traditional degree you make is 'dipl. inf', (corresponds to master degree) then 'Dr. ing' (at least here in Erlangen)
[09:26] <shawarma> LaserJock: Probably.
[09:26] <LaserJock> I've been doing my PhD for 5 years
[09:27] <shawarma> siretart: And dr. ing is a ph.d?
[09:27] <ajmitch> LaserJock: another 2 or so to go, perhaps?
[09:27] <siretart> shawarma: we actually don't call it 'ph.d'. I thought that would be equivalent to the german 'Promotion'
[09:27] <LaserJock> ajmitch: 1, just 1
[09:27] <ajmitch> hehe
[09:28] <ajmitch> LaserJock: so you need to get all the research & the thesis done in this next year?
[09:28] <ajmitch> good luck
[09:28] <shawarma> siretart: I see. It's a bit of mess figuring out what degrees correspond to what degrees in other countries.
[09:28] <ajmitch> though I think married phd candidates have a bit more motivation than the average grad student
[09:30] <sistpoty> dholbach: quick question: do you know when motu-sru has been subscribed to bug #66355?
[09:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66355 in gnome-pilot "gpilotd locks up my Palm Z22" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66355
[09:30] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I've done almost 5 years of research, it's mostly about finishing it off and writing it up
[09:30] <ajmitch> ok
[09:30] <ajmitch> since we're all here, who wants another MOTU meeting soon?
[09:30] <sistpoty> ajmitch: +1
[09:30] <siretart> sponti meeting? ;)
[09:31] <ajmitch> siretart: sure, why not? :)
[09:31] <somerville32> +1
[09:31] <sistpoty> let's take over ubuntu-meeting and play tb for an evening *g*
[09:31] <siretart> oh, there is currently a TB meeting
[09:32] <dholbach> sistpoty: no idea
[09:32] <LaserJock> have we even confirmed the Universe release schedule? I don't see anything on the wiki page
[09:32] <Toadstool> heya everybody
[09:32] <sistpoty> dholbach: ok... just strange because I didn't get a mail from that bug
[09:32] <siretart> oh, it was cancelled. interesting.
[09:32] <dholbach> 5 Jan 07 10:30  	 Borden Rhodes  	bug  	 	 	added subscriber MOTU Stable Release Updates
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Edit Description/Tags
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Mark as Duplicate
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Visibility/Security
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Also Affects Upstream
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Also Affects Distribution
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Unsubscribe
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Subscribe Someone Else
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Comment/Attach File
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Target to Release
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Add Branch
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Link to CVE
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Report a Bug in gnome-pilot in ubuntu
[09:32] <dholbach>     * Activity Log
[09:32] <dholbach> Search gnome-pilot (Ubuntu) bugs
[09:32] <dholbach> Enter bug ID or keywords:
[09:32] <dholbach> Show all open bugs
[09:32] <siretart> dholbach?
[09:33] <dholbach> Remote bug watches
[09:33] <dholbach>     * gnome-bugs #362565 [RESOLVED FIXED]  (edit)
[09:33] <Toadstool> uhuh
[09:33] <LaserJock> argg, daniel spam
[09:33] <dholbach> Bug watches keep track of this bug in other bug trackers.
[09:33] <dholbach> Bug details
[09:33] <dholbach> Bug #66355
[09:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66355 in gnome-pilot "gpilotd locks up my Palm Z22" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66355
[09:33] <dholbach> Initial Reporter:
[09:33] <dholbach> Fridtjof Busse
[09:33] <dholbach> Reported on:
[09:33] <dholbach> 2006-10-16
[09:33] <dholbach> Subscribers to bug 66355
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Borden Rhodes
[09:33] <siretart> yay, daniel spamming the channel ;)
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Daniel Holbach
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Fridtjof Busse
[09:33] <dholbach>     * KenSentMe
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Kolja Glogowski
[09:33] <dholbach>     * MOTU Stable Release Updates
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Matt Davey
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Olivier Guerrier
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Paul Roberts
[09:33] <LaserJock> somebody should kick him ;-)
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Phil
[09:33] <somerville32> Someone should mute him, lol
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Ubuntu Stable Release Updates Team
[09:33] <dholbach> Also notified:
[09:33] <dholbach>     * PDA Testers
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Registry Administrators
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Ubuntu Bugs
[09:33] <dholbach>     * Ubuntu Desktop Bugs
[09:33] <dholbach> oooooops
[09:33] <dholbach> SORRY
[09:34] <dholbach> lalalalalalala
[09:34] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-pilot/+bug/66355/+activity <- bottom
[09:34] <LaserJock> hahaha
[09:34] <Toadstool> :)
[09:34] <sistpoty> dholbach: ah, nice
[09:34] <somerville32> Is it... over?
[09:34] <somerville32> lol
[09:34] <ajmitch> LaserJock: so what do we need to argue about/discuss at a meeting?
[09:35] <ajmitch> schedule, revu progress, sru, what else?
[09:35] <LaserJock> task lists
[09:35] <siretart> dholbach: the last meeting, we decided to abandon REVU in favor of launchpad's bzr branch hosting, is that correct?
[09:35] <LaserJock> well, I don't know about abandon exactly
[09:35] <ajmitch> s/minuts/minutes/
[09:35] <dholbach> siretart: to give it a spin and see where issues are
[09:36] <dholbach> siretart: today I thought that we could add the tarballs to a tarball/ dir in the branch - that'd solve a bunch of problems
[09:36] <somerville32> revu isn't that bad
[09:36] <ajmitch> some people have been burning through REVU
[09:36] <ajmitch> having each package uploaded being announced on -motu has been good
[09:37] <siretart> dholbach: I uploaded bzr-builddeb a couple of minutes ago. that might faciliate managing the packages
[09:37] <dholbach> i really think the bzr aspect will help a lot
[09:37] <dholbach> ah nice
[09:37] <ajmitch> oh, I see someone updated the murrine package I did on revu
[09:37] <LaserJock> yeah, I think the email to -motu thing has been pretty cool
[09:37] <dholbach> yeah we should stick to that - whatever we do :)
[09:38] <ajmitch> good, since it was a rushed package anyway :)
[09:38] <ajmitch> knowing what other people are doing & seeing some activity is always a good thing
[09:38] <LaserJock> I think Ubuntu Studio is using it for their default engine or something
[09:38] <siretart> dholbach: did we already process some NEW package via bzr?
[09:39] <bddebian> ajmitch: You've been REVU'ing again? W00t :)
[09:39] <siretart> dholbach: I'd like to know what to do with revu. shall we shut it down?
[09:39] <LaserJock> no, please don't do that
[09:39] <bddebian> siretart: Why shut it down?
[09:39] <LaserJock> we need to get the contributors to move to bzr before we shut REVU down
[09:39] <ajmitch> bddebian: no
[09:39] <bddebian> If you move to bzr I quit :)
[09:39] <somerville32> lol
[09:40] <Lutin> heh
[09:40] <LaserJock> dholbach: I'm a little concerned about the size of a tarballs bzr branch
[09:40] <somerville32> I think revu is good myself too. Maybe encourage motu-hopefuls to help do unofficial reviews I find is very helpful.
[09:40] <LaserJock> dholbach: I've been working with the Ubuntu Studio guys a bit on using bzr
[09:40] <somerville32> It gets the package to a point where the real motus just need to take a look, check, and upload
[09:41] <LaserJock> I suggested the put a file in the root of the bzr branch that has the URL to the tarball
[09:41] <dholbach> LaserJock: nice
[09:41] <LaserJock> somerville32: we are thinking that perhaps bzr would be faster for that
[09:41] <dholbach> LaserJock: I'm sure it'll work out
[09:42] <somerville32> I guess I'm not really sure how this whole bzr thing is suppose to work or how it is better then revu.
[09:42] <LaserJock> somerville32: contributors would just push a bzr branch of debian/
[09:42] <LaserJock> somerville32: potentially other contributors could help out
[09:43] <somerville32> debian/ is only a part of the checklist
[09:43] <ajmitch> run a script to grab the package, run some simple checks on it like revu-report
[09:43] <somerville32> And the rules script, a lot of the time, depends on what is provided in the source for configuring, installing, etc.
[09:44] <LaserJock> the only thing I could see if more than one "contributor" being able to commit is if people "disagree" and we have bzr wars
[09:44] <somerville32> What about patches to the source?
[09:44] <Lutin> one good thing with revu is that it's way easier to review a whole diff than all the files in debian/ independantly
[09:44] <somerville32> right
[09:44] <siretart> bddebian: in order to urge contributors to get used to bzr?
[09:44] <dholbach> Lutin: you have   bzr diff    too
[09:44] <LaserJock> Lutin: bzr diff
[09:44] <siretart> no, I'm happy with revu running, actually
[09:45] <Toadstool> hmm, what about storing tarball information in a bzr "field" and have a MOTU bzr plugin? :)
[09:45] <Lutin> LaserJock: he, thanks :)
[09:46] <somerville32> I thought we wanted to encourage people to contribute to Ubuntu. I think adding to the stack of things they need to learn to get started would be detrimental to that effort.
[09:46] <LaserJock> somerville32: we are trying to make it *easier* for both contributor and reviewer
[09:47] <ajmitch> somerville32: if it's that hard, you could have revu create bzr branches on upload
[09:47] <ajmitch> which I don't think would be very clean, but anyway
[09:48] <LaserJock> anyway ... it's worth exploring
[09:48] <LaserJock> other teams have used bzr/LP pretty sucessfully
[09:49] <dholbach> yeah
[09:49] <dholbach> it ROCKs :)
[09:50] <LaserJock> the problem I see is getting people to try it
[09:50] <dholbach> we need good tutorials :)
[09:50] <LaserJock> and announcements that it's available :-)
[09:51] <ajmitch> bzr is fairly easy to manage for most people
[09:51] <ajmitch> ooh, that page is a mess
[09:52] <ajmitch> frequently ignored, it's a way for people to think they're being listened to, TBH
[09:52] <LaserJock> I don't think it would be hard to make a product (ubuntu-candidates) or something that people can file bugs against
[09:52] <ajmitch> how many people do you know pick packages from there?
[09:52] <ajmitch> agreed
[09:52] <somerville32> +1
[09:52] <LaserJock> s/ubuntu-candidates/universe-candidates/ or something
[09:53] <Lutin> LaserJock++
[09:54] <LaserJock> dholbach: what do you think?
[09:54] <ajmitch> it's not the best solution, but it could work
[09:54] <somerville32> What about helping more people become motus? More man power the better, haha
[09:54] <ajmitch> it allows comments on bugs
[09:54] <ajmitch> somerville32: yes, but help them out in what way?
[09:54] <LaserJock> ajmitch: what would be better?
[09:54] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I don't know :)
[09:55] <somerville32> ajmitch: The same way loco teams help their members become Ubuntu Members
[09:55] <LaserJock> somerville32: we also need quality as well as quantity
[09:55] <LaserJock> somerville32: we do a rather large amount of helping people, perhaps we need to be more efficient
[09:55] <ajmitch> somerville32: that's incredibly vague
[09:55] <somerville32> ajmitch: On purpose, lol
[09:55] <bddebian> We need more drugs! :)
[09:55] <LaserJock> ajmitch: wnpp seems to kinda work for Debian
[09:55] <somerville32> Indeed.
[09:56] <LaserJock> bddebian: bugs? ;-)
[09:56] <dholbach> LaserJock: sure, add it
[09:56] <LaserJock> dholbach: to agenda or just do it :-)
[09:56] <ajmitch> LaserJock: Just Do It!
[09:57] <ajmitch> ubuntu-universe-candidates, or is that too long for people?
[09:57] <dholbach> :)
[09:57] <ajmitch> add a note to the top of the wiki page, tell them where to add stuff
[09:57] <somerville32> LaserJock, ajmitch: Maybe we could create a page or a team that motu-hopefuls could join so that MOTUs could take specific interest in them (ie. delegating work, giving advice, etc.)
[09:58] <LaserJock> ajmitch: sounds good
[09:59] <ajmitch> a team may be nice, but it doesn't have the personal contact that is often needed to help people
[09:59] <LaserJock> somerville32: I think task lists in general are a good thing
[09:59] <ajmitch> part of what the council is meant to do is task lists
[09:59] <ajmitch> since the rest of us have been too slack to write some up in the meantime :)
[09:59] <LaserJock> I tend to think that there shouldn't be so much a seperate between Hopefuls of MOTU in what they work on
[09:59] <LaserJock> only that Hopefuls need sponsorship
[10:00] <LaserJock> we should have "Junior Jobs" for new people, but if you want to be a MOTU you should be doing MOTU things
[10:00] <ajmitch> "junior jobs" == writing LaserJock's thesis as he hacks on ubuntu :)
[10:00] <LaserJock> heck yeah!!
[10:01] <somerville32> LaserJock: I think it had to do with the obligation of being a member of an official team or what not
[10:01] <somerville32> I dunno
[10:01] <somerville32> lol
[10:01] <LaserJock> hmm, well the revu team would be sort of like that
[10:01] <somerville32> for me, I want to become a MOTU but I have no idea when I should apply
[10:01] <Toadstool> yet another team? we have ubuntu-universe-contributors don't we?
[10:02] <LaserJock> somerville32: usually MOTUs will start telling you should go for it
[10:02] <ajmitch> part of what we discussed at UDS - telling people that they should apply, rather than them guessing
[10:02] <somerville32> and I think it is safe to say that MOTUs would be interested in assisting motu-hopefuls become quality contributors.
[10:03] <somerville32> LaserJock, But are MOTUs actively thinking "who should we tell to apply today?"
[10:03] <LaserJock> yes
[10:03] <LaserJock> I'm daily evaluating everyone in here :-)
[10:03] <ajmitch> somerville32: they'd be working with someone & telling them to apply
[10:03] <LaserJock> it's iffy some days ;-)
[10:04] <LaserJock> hehe
[10:04] <LaserJock> Toadstool: I agree, we have a rather large amount of MOTU related teams
[10:05] <LaserJock> I think our bzr review team could be considered MOTU Hopefuls
[10:06] <LaserJock> somerville32: I'm just a bit hesitent at adding more layers
[10:07] <LaserJock> if we have an "official" MOTU Hopeful level then we need to have an evaluation of whether a person is a MOTU Hopeful or not
[10:07] <ajmitch> yay bureaucracy
[10:07] <LaserJock> we really need to keep our processes trim
[10:08] <somerville32> Maybe just a process of mentorship? I think it would be easier to identify individuals ready to apply for MOTU status if there was someone specifically working with an individual.
[10:08] <somerville32> I think that the wiki already mentions this
[10:08] <somerville32> but it doesn't actually occur
[10:08] <LaserJock> somerville32: no offense, but how do you know? We regularly encourage people to go for MOTU
[10:08] <Toadstool> motu-{uvf,sru,council,hopeful-whatever-team} that becomes heck a lot of different teams and processes ;)
[10:09] <LaserJock> the whole idea is that we are a team, and so the MOTU team mentors MOTU Hopefuls
[10:09] <LaserJock> with the daily workload we have it can be a bit overwhelming if you have 5 Hopefuls relying on *only* you
[10:09] <somerville32> LaserJock: I know it occurs because I've already been encouraged.
[10:10] <LaserJock> it also give a broader range of opinion if you have the team's input rather than just one person
[10:10] <somerville32> I'm just saying I think documentation on the wiki needs to be a bit more clear
[10:10] <ajmitch> somerville32: if you know it happens, why did you say it doesn't occur?
[10:10] <LaserJock> it's confusing at first, but the reality of packaging is that it's much more art than science
[10:11] <LaserJock> somerville32: for sure, we do need better documentation
[10:11] <LaserJock> and you are more then welcome to help with that
[10:11] <ajmitch> somerville32: if we need better documentation, it's a hint for you to start writing :)
[10:11] <somerville32> lol
[10:12] <LaserJock> have we done any sort of review of various MOTU related LP teams?
[10:12] <LaserJock> I guess the Council could do that
[10:12] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I'm quite sure I asked you this almost 2 weeks ago already... but I forget: did you already upload rpy to edgy-proposed?
[10:13] <LaserJock> sistpoty: yes
[10:13] <sistpoty> LaserJock: ah, great... thx... I'll make a note to the bug ;)
[10:13] <ajmitch> LaserJock: or we could just do it :)
[10:13] <LaserJock> sistpoty: as far as I know it's either waiting for approval or in -proposed
[10:13] <LaserJock> well, from my standpoint it seems like we have some bottlenecks
[10:14] <sistpoty> LaserJock: not yet in proposed... I checked the whole contents of -proposed already
[10:14] <LaserJock> sistpoty: grrr, it's been a couple weeks since I uploaded. Oh well
[10:14] <LaserJock> one of our bottlenecks is approvals
[10:14] <bddebian> and resources
[10:14] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I'm just writing the sru-report... I'll try to find out where the bottleneck is ;)
[10:14] <crimsun> as in u-a approvals?
[10:14] <LaserJock> we can only process as fast as we get approvals
[10:15] <LaserJock> crimsun: mostly right now
[10:15] <crimsun> I'd like to think u-u-s and motu-sru are flying as smoothly as possible
[10:15] <crimsun> then again I'm biased
[10:15] <LaserJock> I think so to
[10:15] <ajmitch> due to the superb efforts of certain people (thanks crimsun!)
[10:15] <sistpoty> crimsun: iirc we had some downtime during the holidays... but in another half an hour, I'll have prove where the bottleneck in sru is 
[10:16] <LaserJock> the other "bottleneck" in a sense is process documentation/ beauracracy
[10:16] <LaserJock> people need to easy find the process to go through
[10:16] <sistpoty> s/prove/proof/
[10:16] <sistpoty> sheesh, I can't spell any longer... looking at bug number and dates makes me dumb *g*
[10:16] <crimsun> Ubuntu clippy1
[10:17] <geser> btw: is someone interested in doing a sru for bug #57951? it has already 13 dupes
[10:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
[10:17] <LaserJock> it should be fairly obvious what a person is supposed to do for UVF, SRU, NEW packages, etc.
[10:18] <LaserJock> along with that is having the status of these processes readily available
[10:18] <LaserJock> SRU for instance is currently a bit troublesome
[10:18] <crimsun> that's because we've managed to its hurdle higher than main's, surprisingly
[10:18] <LaserJock> having to look through Sources files to find if a package is in -proposed yet is annoying
[10:18] <crimsun> to make ^
[10:18] <LaserJock> yep
[10:19] <Adri2000> LaserJock: Seveas's edgy-changes rss feed is for you
[10:19] <LaserJock> we should have status pages for UVF, SRU, merges/syncs
[10:19] <Adri2000> s/'s/'/
[10:19] <LaserJock> Adri2000: that doesn't help
[10:20] <Adri2000> why?
[10:20] <LaserJock> we need to see what's going on in -proposed
[10:20] <Seveas> Adri2000, do they contain -proposed?
[10:20] <Seveas> I don't think so :)
[10:21] <Adri2000> I see for example k3d (0.5.12.0-1ubuntu2.1~proposed1)
[10:21] <LaserJock> both what's yet to be accepted and what's in currently
[10:21] <LaserJock> Adri2000: that's probably been uploaded to -updates that way or something, i don't know
[10:21] <somerville32> The UWN is attempting to help with UVF, SRU, MIR, and all the TLA and ETLA processes we have by featuring them in the community spotlight, process of the week feature.
[10:21] <LaserJock> we need something better than UWN
[10:22] <LaserJock> UWN should be getting data from us
[10:22] <Adri2000> LaserJock: no: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edgy-changes/2006-December/008122.html "Distribution: edgy-proposed"
[10:22] <somerville32> LaserJock, Such as?
[10:22] <Adri2000> and afaik the rss feed uses edgy-changes mailing list
[10:22] <LaserJock> somerville32: SRU, UVF, etc.
[10:22] <Seveas> Adri2000, interesting. That should be made more clear in the feed
[10:23] <LaserJock> Seveas: I'm still not sure that that is right
[10:23] <Seveas> LaserJock, regardless of what you're looking for, it still should be made clear in the feed ;)
[10:24] <LaserJock> true :-)
[10:24] <Seveas> somerville32, process of the week sounds cool
[10:25] <somerville32> :)
[10:25] <somerville32> Mark's idea
[10:26] <LaserJock> anyway, I somehow feel like we got offtrack (mostly likely by me)
[10:27] <crimsun> (where are we in the TB agenda?)
[10:27] <LaserJock> I don't know that we were going on the TB agenda
[10:28] <LaserJock> more impromptu MOTU agenda
[10:28] <somerville32> hehe
[10:28] <LaserJock> I'm sort of interested in what people see as areas MOTU could improve on or streamline
[10:29] <LaserJock> other than figuring out how to clone crimsun 
[10:29] <LaserJock> ;-)
[10:29] <Toadstool> which would solve a lot of our issues
[10:29] <crimsun> that won't work at all (mythical man-month)
[10:29] <Adri2000> LaserJock: improve merge-o-matic
[10:30] <crimsun> .oO( heck, is anyone saying anything in -meeting? )
[10:30] <somerville32> Maybe we could do a little walk through of how bzr will improve the work flow?
[10:30] <Adri2000> crimsun: there is no TB today
[10:30] <Adri2000> crimsun: mdz was the only one present
[10:31] <crimsun> gah.
[10:31] <LaserJock> Adri2000: well, we can certianly beg Keybuk for new features :-)
[10:32] <Adri2000> I think assignee and comment fields would be really useful
[10:32] <LaserJock> somerville32: well basically, people push their packages to the revu team on LP
[10:32] <LaserJock> somerville32: then other contributors or MOTUs can comment on them or commit fixes, etc.
[10:33] <somerville32> How exactly do they comment?
[10:33] <LaserJock> hmm, can't remember how exactly that was proposed to be done
[10:34] <crimsun> whiteboard, no?
[10:34] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:34] <LaserJock> somerville32: the spec is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeReviewSLA
[10:34] <somerville32> Isn't it possible to link a branch to a bug?
[10:35] <somerville32> and bugs have better commenting facilities
[10:35] <somerville32> Plus e-mail notification
[10:35] <LaserJock> so is the general feeling that MOTU is running smoothly during Feisty?
[10:36] <ajmitch> no
[10:38] <LaserJock> ajmitch: do you see any particular problems?
[10:38] <LaserJock> ok, burn out/lack of time for some MOTUs :-)
[10:38] <ajmitch> apart from that
[10:39] <ajmitch> part of the problem is identifying the problems :)
[10:39] <LaserJock> well, that's what I'm trying to get down to
[10:39] <ajmitch> things I'd like to see, like packages with RC bugs fixed in debian, that aren't fixed in ubuntu
[10:39] <LaserJock> if we can identify specific problems we can come up with solutions
[10:39] <ajmitch> since we always seem to suck at QA
[10:39] <ajmitch> I have an idea of how to do that
[10:40] <ajmitch> using the ldap bts interface
[10:40] <ajmitch> but I need time/motivation, which I always lack :)
[10:40] <LaserJock> ok, so the problem seems to be a lack of information about our packages and debian's, correct?
[10:40] <ajmitch> that's part of it
[10:41] <ajmitch> also bug triage, somethign for the bugsquad
[10:41] <ajmitch> since we don't know what is _really_ broken until post-release
[10:41] <Adri2000> bddebian: I've merged the last msttcorefonts, can you upload it?
[10:41] <LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, so better testing and triaging
[10:41] <bddebian> Adri2000: Did you break it? :)
[10:42] <ajmitch> there was talk of automated testing being distro wide
[10:42] <LaserJock> although I think that having a good idea of what bugs are in Debian would help
[10:42] <ajmitch> dholbach knows a little more than I do about that
[10:42] <Adri2000> bddebian: why? I never break anything :)
[10:42] <ajmitch> knowing what's been fixed in debian is ever better :)
[10:42] <LaserJock> done by Canonical people or us?
[10:42] <LaserJock> of course ;-)
[10:42] <dholbach> ajmitch: aha?
[10:43] <dholbach> ajmitch: what is the question exactly?
[10:43] <ajmitch> dholbach: you know much about the automated testing?
[10:43] <dholbach> no
[10:43] <dholbach> but iwj and pitti do
[10:43] <dholbach> and lifeless probably too
[10:43] <ajmitch> ah, I thought you talked about it a bit with them
[10:43] <LaserJock> there seems, to me anyway, less priortization with bugs in Universe than in Debian
[10:43] <Adri2000> bddebian: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/msttcorefonts_1.7ubuntu1.debdiff
[10:43] <ajmitch> mvo was doing some stuff with upgrade testing as well
[10:43] <LaserJock> we don't really have an idea of, "OK, here are a set of RC bugs for Feisty"
[10:45] <TheMuso> tepsipakki: You were looking for me?
[10:47] <sistpoty> damn, motu-sru queue is *not* empty... still two packages that need reviewing
[10:48] <crimsun> which?
[10:48] <sistpoty> crimsun: bug #42269 and bug #76861
[10:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42269 in azureus "[SRU]  Does not create a tray icon" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/42269
[10:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76861 in spampd "[SRU]  spampd 2.30" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76861
[10:51] <Adri2000> crimsun: can I merge mplayerplug-in?
[10:52] <crimsun> Adri2000: yes
[10:54] <Adri2000> crimsun: ok, you wrote in the changelog "Does not install mplayerplug-in-gmp symlinks", but I don't see any gmp related change in mplayerplug-in_3.31-6ubuntu1.patch
[10:56] <bddebian> Adri2000: Is that a diff against the Debian package?
[10:56] <Adri2000> bddebian: yes, the last version in debian
[10:57] <crimsun> sistpoty: 76861 uploaded, u-a subbed
[10:57] <Adri2000> bddebian: debdiff 1.7 1.7ubuntu1
[10:57] <sistpoty> crimsun: damn, I was almost done with sru-report :P
[10:57] <sistpoty> crimsun: thx
[10:59] <crimsun> Adri2000: that's correct. Debian's never did, so our merge obviously wouldn't.
[11:01] <Adri2000> crimsun: actually you didn't change anything except s/iceweasel/firefox/ ?
[11:01] <crimsun> Adri2000: correct. I always note a justification for closing a bug, however.
[11:02] <Adri2000> ok :)
[11:17] <ScottK> Is there a definitive answer yet about then name of the field to put the Debian maintainer in when I update a package with MOTU for maintainer?  One of my packages did a new release yesterday and I'd like to get it right for the update.
[11:17] <Adri2000> not yet
[11:18] <ScottK> Thanks.  Is X-Original-Maintainer: OK in the meantime?
[11:20] <dholbach> ?
[11:20] <Adri2000> it's better to don't change this field until we are sure of what we should do
[11:20] <dholbach> just leave it as it is
[11:20] <dholbach> it doesn't make to change it
[11:20] <LaserJock> I think XBS-Original-Maintainer is what sounded like we might do
[11:21] <dholbach> the fields are changed automatically - so ubuntu users don't mail the debian maintainers but our mailing lists
[11:21] <Adri2000> dholbach: only for binary packages
[11:21] <LaserJock> dholbach: mdz told me that we are supposed to change source packages manual
[11:21] <dholbach> aha?
[11:21] <LaserJock> dholbach: I sent out an email to -announce
[11:21] <dholbach> i'll take a look at it
[11:22] <LaserJock> although I don't know what exactly the field should be now
[11:29] <bddebian> Uhm, that's a new one for me??
[11:29] <bddebian> Rejected:
[11:29] <bddebian> Upload is binaryful, but policy refuses binaryful uploads.
[11:29] <bddebian> Upload is source/binary but policy refuses mixed uploads.
[11:29] <bddebian> Oh, it uploaded the damn deb, wtf
[11:31] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:31] <white> does ubuntu policy say "source-only uploads only"?
[11:32] <ajmitch> white: yes
[11:32] <white> ah, wasn't aware of that
[11:32] <Adri2000> crimsun: mplayerplug-in merge at bug 79648
[11:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79648 in mplayerplug-in "[Merge]  mplayerplug-in 3.31+main-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79648
[11:33] <persia> Toadstool: Regarding bug 32460.  It doesn't seem to have had much attention in the past while: what do you think about applying your patch and waiting for a bug about overflows to move towards a real solution?
[11:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32460 in supercollider "Uninstallable in dapper AMD64" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/32460
[11:35] <Toadstool> persia: the patch won't work anyway, remember? :)
[11:36] <persia> Toadstool: At least with the patch, it compiles, and the only problem is communication.  I'm just thinking about trying to clean out the very old broken version, and wondered if a new broken version wouldn't be better.
[11:37] <Toadstool> I don't know...
[11:37] <Toadstool> nothing happened upstream about this issue?
[11:38] <chillywilly> hi
[11:38] <persia> Toadstool: Not that I have seen.
[11:38] <chillywilly> anyone ever get xen to work in edgy?
[11:38] <chillywilly> via the packaged kernels and utils
[11:39] <ajmitch> no, it's just there to look nice
[11:39] <zul> heh
[11:39] <chillywilly> you deserved that one
[11:40] <chillywilly> I was getting some error on my laptop about the kernel not being a proper executable or some whacky crap like that
[11:41] <ajmitch> maybe you weren't doing it right
[11:41] <ajmitch> followed the wiki page?
[11:41] <ScottK> Another question: I believe that if I had read this: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html before I uploaded my first package, I'd have had less trouble with debian/copyright.  I think it should be referenced off of one of the MOTU wiki pages.  If someone would suggest which page would be best, I'll add it...
[11:43] <ajmitch> ScottK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Tips
[11:43] <ajmitch> there's a section on debian/copyright in there
[11:43] <ScottK> Thanks.
[11:43] <Toadstool> persia: can you prepare a debdiff so that I can review it and upload? I am at work right now, kinda busy
[11:44] <persia> Toadstool: Sure.  Just wanted your input when changing my mind to use your code.
[11:44] <LaserJock> ScottK: I think I also put some of that in the Packaging Guide
[11:44] <Toadstool> persia: ok great! thanks :)
[11:45] <sistpoty> upcoming sru-report, brand new with delay number...: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/1878/
[11:45] <sistpoty> is it clear, what the numbers are about?
[11:45] <sistpoty> <- can't write english tonight *g*
[11:48] <ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks again.  Added.
[11:48] <bddebian> Adri2000: msttcorefonts uploaded
[11:48] <Adri2000> great!
[11:50] <bddebian> Later gang
[11:51] <persia> Toadstool: You already built a debdiff.  BTW, it looks like someone is trying to prepare a patch that upstream will accept (previous patches have been rejected as degrading performance for 32bit).
[11:53] <Toadstool> trying to prepare or there is patch pending approval by upstream?
[11:53] <Toadstool> +a
[11:54] <persia> Toadstool: There's a couple newer mailing list threads about it, but nothing conclusive (and some months pending).
[11:55] <Toadstool> hmm...
[11:56] <persia> Toadstool: I think I found the problem.  Author reports "I don't really see a big need to run the language in a 64 bit address space, though." (http://www.create.ucsb.edu/pipermail/sc-dev/2005-November/009371.html)
[11:58] <Toadstool> persia: http://www.create.ucsb.edu/pipermail/sc-users/2006-April/024798.html <-- there may be hope...
[11:59] <persia> Toadstool: Yep.  That's one of the newer threads
[11:59] <tsmithe> i've got a .bzr directory (for my bzr branch in ubuntustudio) in my package... how can i get it to not be represented in the diff?
[12:00] <LaserJock> either remove it or use filterdiff, I think
[12:00] <tsmithe> hmm
[12:00] <LaserJock> s/remove/move/
[12:00] <tsmithe> filterdiff?
[12:01] <LaserJock> yep
[12:01] <LaserJock> it's in patchutils
[12:02] <tsmithe> cheers
[12:02] <tsmithe> i'm going to sleep now - so night
[12:02] <persia> Toadstool: I'm updating your patch to s/uint64/unsigned long/, which should reduce the impact.
[12:03] <Toadstool> persia: ok, have fun :)
[12:09] <LaserJock> yikes we're actually averaging around 1 month to get a -proposed upload accepted?
[12:11] <ajmitch> hm, if there are packages that *should* be uploaded to -proposed, why haven't they, if the debdiff is there?
[12:12] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, there is only 1 or 2 of those and I guess they are waiting for a MOTU to upload them
[12:13] <sistpoty> ajmitch, LaserJock: one is waiting for a motu and the other one is from lamont (who should be able to upload for himself ;)