[11:19] <ddaa> SteveA: ping
[11:19] <ddaa> thumper: ping
[11:19] <ddaa> Let's talk here
[11:19] <thumper> here
[11:19] <ddaa> so I won't mispresent SteveA
[11:19] <SteveA> hi
[11:19] <ddaa> Thumper said:
[11:20] <ddaa> (23:19:04) thumper: I don't feel a particularly desperate desire to be part of it if it's not necessary
[11:20] <ddaa> My notes about this sprint say
[11:20] <ddaa> Mention to poolie & tim:
[11:20] <ddaa> * Sprint 2 weeks .au in feb. or mar.
[11:20] <thumper> I also said:
[11:20] <thumper> [11:17]  <thumper> the chance of me getting over there is remote to minimal due to my wife killing me
[11:20] <thumper> [11:17]  <thumper> perhaps we could get jml over here
[11:20] <thumper> that is if I'm needed
[11:20] <ddaa> jml... Jonathan?
[11:20] <thumper> yep
[11:21] <ddaa> ha right
[11:21] <thumper> jml is his nick on freenode
[11:21] <ddaa> So, I said .au or .nz makes no difference for me.
[11:21] <SteveA> kiko and I are thinking about planning sprints for various launchpad teams
[11:21] <thumper> just to let you know, I have to head off in about 15 min
[11:21] <SteveA> the first question is whether there are things to achieve at a team in-person meeting
[11:22] <ddaa> Okay let's be quick just to sync with thumper
[11:22] <SteveA> then, to decide when, where and who
[11:23] <SteveA> if a meeting will be valuable, then getting ddaa down under is possible, and ddaa said he can be easily available for a 2 week trip
[11:23] <SteveA> so, that's something to consider
[11:23] <SteveA> but, I'm not saying that I favour it for its own sake
[11:23] <thumper> fair enough
[11:24] <ddaa> thumper: the other thing I wanted to tell you about
[11:25] <SteveA> it may be that there's enough back-end improving work for ddaa to do that a trip and meeting isn't useful for a while
[11:25] <ddaa> I mentioned that an increasing part of my import herding work is triaging import requests. As the system becomes more popular, more vcs details are entered by users who do not understand the implications and the launchpad best practices.
[11:27] <ddaa> So SteveA suggested that I come to Amsterdam next week, in particular to have some face time with matthewrevell to write documentation at which we can point users when an import request cannot go forward without reformulating it.
[11:27] <thumper> SteveA: there is the desire to get ddaa to spread the import knowledge more
[11:27] <thumper> ddaa: sounds like a very good idea to get more available docs
[11:27] <SteveA> which import knowledge in particular?
[11:27] <SteveA> we'll have a launchpad ops-admin person soon, who should learn how to roll out the importd stuff, and monitor it
[11:27] <SteveA> and understand how it does error reporting
[11:27] <thumper> what runs where and when, and how do fix things when things go wrong
[11:28] <thumper> SteveA: I didn't know about the launchpad-ops person
[11:28] <SteveA> so, at the level of services running correctly, that's something for the ops person to learn
[11:28] <thumper> they should understand it all
[11:28] <SteveA> he'll be working for james troup
[11:28] <thumper> SteveA: agreeed
[11:28] <ddaa> SteveA: regarding my personal constraints, I'm available starting next monday morning.
[11:28] <SteveA> as far as higher level stuff, to do with launchpad, database data, or VCS stuff going wrong
[11:29] <SteveA> that's something where we'll want to have damn good error reporting coming out from the importd systems
[11:29] <SteveA> so, I don't think it's important for jml to learn about detail of how the imports system works
[11:29] <SteveA> thumper: I spoke to elmo today and we talked about your access to vostok, which will be granted soon
[11:30] <SteveA> good dream
[11:30] <thumper> SteveA: good
[11:30] <SteveA> I think it will be helpful for you to help ddaa work out good ways to make that dream come true
[11:30] <SteveA> that is, I think the access to vostok will help you understand the systems
[11:30] <SteveA> so you can assist in that
[11:30] <thumper> ok
[11:31] <SteveA> ultimately, you and ddaa should not need to use the systems much directly
[11:31] <SteveA> as that'll become the ops person's job
[11:31] <thumper> I agree with that
[11:31] <SteveA> there will actually be 2 ops people
[11:31] <SteveA> so there will be holiday cover
[11:31] <SteveA> one person primarily for landscape, one primarily for launchpad
[11:31] <SteveA> but being able to cover for each other
[11:31] <thumper> sounds like a damn fine idea
[11:32] <SteveA> takes some load of stub too
[11:32] <thumper> handholding server processes is not my idea of fun
[11:32] <SteveA> so, ddaa and I were talking about getting decent error handling and error reporting into the systems
[11:32] <SteveA> as they currently are
[11:32] <SteveA> without doing a lot of refactoring first
[11:32] <thumper> ddaa: at least it is growing organically, and you're not being dumped in it
[11:33] <SteveA> and as a matter of urgency
[11:33] <SteveA> ddaa said he'd look at what can be done simply
[11:33] <ddaa> thumper: I'm sure it's an interesting thing to watch and make happen.
[11:34] <SteveA> it's like a rollercoaster on the moon
[11:34] <SteveA> without seat restraints
[11:34] <SteveA> powered by cheese
[11:34] <ddaa> thumper: SteveA drove a nail home about making things even more messy if necessary as long as we get error reporting.
[11:34] <thumper> ddaa: fair enough, I'm happy with that
[11:34] <thumper> as long as it doesn't stay messy for ever
[11:34] <SteveA> ddaa: you can still type one-handed, right?
[11:35] <ddaa> that's why I am reluctant. Anything that do not make messiness monotonously decreasing smells danger to me.
[11:35] <SteveA> there's messiness and there's functioning correctly
[11:36] <SteveA> they way I see it is we need to know how much we're functioning correctly
[11:36] <thumper> I don't think that there would be a big increase in mess
[11:36] <SteveA> so that when we improve the messiness
[11:36] <thumper> just not a decrease
[11:36] <thumper> I'm ok with that
[11:36] <SteveA> we know we're not doing so at the expense of QOS
[11:36] <ddaa> SteveA: don't worry, I'm sold to the idea of getting a better hold on how the thing work.
[11:36] <thumper> guys, I've gotta go
[11:36] <ddaa> If only to make the boss feel less anxious about it.
[11:36] <SteveA> cool, catch you later
[11:37] <ddaa> thumper: cya, the two sprint things are what I wanted to ping you about.
[11:37] <SteveA> thanks for delivering the summary of our conversation ddaa
[11:37] <ddaa> SteveA: thanks for fixing my inaccuracies