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| Seveas | tsmithe, liar :p | 12:58 |
|---|---|---|
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| === Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log | ||
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| === Topic for #ubuntu-meeting: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Jan 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-meeting): set by Ubugtu at Tue Jan 16 23:30:05 2007 | ||
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| highvoltage | @schedule | 12:35 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 17 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Jan 15:00: Xubuntu | 24 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00: Technical Board | 12:35 |
| highvoltage | excellen | 12:35 |
| highvoltage | t | 12:35 |
| Hobbsee | @schedule sydney | 12:37 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 18 Jan 07:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jan 02:00: Xubuntu | 24 Jan 23:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jan 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 Jan 07:00: Technical Board | 12:37 |
| === Hobbsee wonders how they're going to have a ubuntu development meeting when there are a whole lot of devs at linux conf au, having dinner with au people at about that time... | ||
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| juliux | @schedule | 02:24 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 17 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Jan 15:00: Xubuntu | 24 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00: Technical Board | 02:24 |
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| lotusleaf | "looking through a demon's eye" "We're gonna spy on God Find out if he really is" | 02:49 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Jan 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | ||
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| juliux | @schedule | 08:00 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 17 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Jan 15:00: Xubuntu | 24 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00: Technical Board | 08:00 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Jan 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | ||
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| willvdl | @schedule | 09:00 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Jan 15:00: Xubuntu | 24 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00: Technical Board | 09:00 |
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| highvoltage | hey pips1 | 09:01 |
| highvoltage | long time no see | 09:01 |
| pips1 | hey highvoltage | 09:01 |
| willvdl | hey pips1! | 09:01 |
| pips1 | :-) | 09:01 |
| === pips1 looks around | ||
| willvdl | right, who's present? | 09:02 |
| willvdl | Shall we get cracking? | 09:02 |
| pips1 | sure | 09:02 |
| pips1 | RichEd is in Australia, right? | 09:02 |
| willvdl | Riched is in Australia at LCA | 09:02 |
| willvdl | snap | 09:02 |
| willvdl | and ogra can't make it tonight | 09:02 |
| pips1 | ic | 09:03 |
| juliux | hi | 09:03 |
| pips1 | rodarvus ? | 09:03 |
| pips1 | sbalneav ? | 09:03 |
| sbalneav | Hello! | 09:03 |
| willvdl | hey | 09:03 |
| pips1 | hi!! | 09:03 |
| sbalneav | Present | 09:03 |
| pips1 | cbx33 ? | 09:04 |
| === sbalneav holds hand up | ||
| willvdl | rodarvus is around I think | 09:04 |
| pips1 | willvdl: will you pace us through the agenda? | 09:05 |
| willvdl | Well, let's get started anyway | 09:05 |
| willvdl | === TECHNICAL === | 09:05 |
| willvdl | If ogra were here, I'm sure he'd ask for testers... | 09:05 |
| willvdl | not sure how much we can cover in tech | 09:06 |
| cbx33 | hi | 09:06 |
| sbalneav | I'll be doing some testing of thin client sound this weekend. | 09:06 |
| willvdl | ola | 09:06 |
| cbx33 | nice one sbalneav | 09:06 |
| willvdl | great, ogra mentioned sound architecture last week | 09:06 |
| === cbx33 has an update on LTCM(SCP) | ||
| === willvdl hands cbx33 the conch shell | ||
| cbx33 | oooh | 09:07 |
| cbx33 | well..... | 09:07 |
| cbx33 | is this thing on | 09:07 |
| cbx33 | ... | 09:07 |
| cbx33 | I have started the LTCM spec | 09:07 |
| cbx33 | it's now successfully broken up into front end and back end | 09:07 |
| cbx33 | which is awesome | 09:07 |
| willvdl | aha. saw those discussions | 09:07 |
| cbx33 | today I worked for a little while on the tiled vnc feature that everyone wanted | 09:07 |
| cbx33 | and I actually got it working | 09:08 |
| cbx33 | borrowed some code from somewhere else | 09:08 |
| cbx33 | but it's all GPL so we're good | 09:08 |
| willvdl | sweet | 09:08 |
| cbx33 | that's me done | 09:08 |
| cbx33 | anyone who wants to test it for me | 09:08 |
| cbx33 | shout | 09:08 |
| willvdl | what does the "split" mean as such? | 09:09 |
| cbx33 | well | 09:09 |
| cbx33 | it will allow a KDE developer to write a kde front end for LTCM | 09:09 |
| cbx33 | since they can just import the backend module and all the hard stuff is done for them | 09:09 |
| willvdl | ah. with clear api etc | 09:09 |
| cbx33 | indeed | 09:09 |
| cbx33 | and the backend is actually tiny | 09:10 |
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| cbx33 | the gui takes up most code | 09:10 |
| === pips1 is trying to figure out the acronym... Linux Terminal Control Manager? Erm... | ||
| Riddell | cbx33: what is LTCM? | 09:10 |
| cbx33 | LTSP Thin Client Manager | 09:10 |
| willvdl | thin client manager | 09:10 |
| willvdl | snap | 09:10 |
| cbx33 | damn you win ;) | 09:11 |
| cbx33 | however for now the vnc stuff will only be in the gnome version | 09:11 |
| willvdl | looking forward to seeing it in action | 09:11 |
| cbx33 | as a) no one has stepped up to write a kde version yet and b) the code I hacked up was from a gnome app and I'm not sure how well it can be split | 09:11 |
| pips1 | so LTCM (LTSP Thin Client Manager) is now the official new name for SCP (Student Control Panel)? | 09:12 |
| cbx33 | yes | 09:12 |
| cbx33 | oh and I spotted a bug in SCP which should be fixed soon | 09:12 |
| pips1 | right | 09:12 |
| willvdl | I can't imagine you've had much time for the MOTD thingy? | 09:13 |
| cbx33 | unfortunately no | 09:13 |
| cbx33 | not yet | 09:13 |
| cbx33 | It's still a possibility | 09:13 |
| cbx33 | infact it's SOOO simple to implement | 09:13 |
| willvdl | shall we move on? | 09:14 |
| pips1 | Is anyone present expecting to be able to test Herd 2, 3, ... (besides sbalneav)? | 09:14 |
| cbx33 | sure | 09:14 |
| cbx33 | unfortunately I won't have time | 09:14 |
| pips1 | let's move on.. | 09:15 |
| willvdl | let's skip to Artwork if no-one minds? | 09:15 |
| cbx33 | sure | 09:15 |
| cbx33 | Lisa is sorry she can't attend this evening | 09:15 |
| willvdl | === ARTWORK === | 09:15 |
| willvdl | ^^^ makes logs easier to edit | 09:15 |
| cbx33 | she hasnt had a great deal of time lately....been very very busy with paid work | 09:15 |
| cbx33 | but she is still working hard...and really really needs your feedback | 09:16 |
| willvdl | Canonical is going to employ an ubuntu artist | 09:16 |
| cbx33 | for edubuntu too? | 09:16 |
| willvdl | need to see how that works out | 09:16 |
| cbx33 | ok | 09:17 |
| willvdl | cbx33, feedback on templates, pallettes etc? | 09:17 |
| cbx33 | I think shes talking about the mock wallpaper she did a while back | 09:17 |
| cbx33 | but | 09:17 |
| cbx33 | I think they'll be some more before not too long to comment on | 09:17 |
| cbx33 | also | 09:17 |
| cbx33 | if anyeone knows of any budding artist | 09:17 |
| cbx33 | please get them involved | 09:17 |
| willvdl | let's tap the Ubuntu Artwork channel | 09:18 |
| willvdl | make a formal "call for contributions"? | 09:18 |
| cbx33 | well we have done that in the past | 09:19 |
| cbx33 | I'll get lisa to mail them tonight | 09:19 |
| pips1 | Does the Artwork Team have its own introduction/welcome page somewhere? | 09:19 |
| willvdl | sweet. just good to voice ourselves I guess | 09:19 |
| cbx33 | yes | 09:19 |
| willvdl | EdubuntuArtwork | 09:19 |
| cbx33 | people just don't seem keen to help out Edubuntu much | 09:19 |
| willvdl | perhaps we need to make it easier for them | 09:20 |
| willvdl | somehow... | 09:20 |
| highvoltage | willvdl: i agree with you | 09:20 |
| cbx33 | me too | 09:20 |
| cbx33 | I just don;t know how | 09:20 |
| willvdl | I'm don't hang around the artwork channels much or browse the contributions but there are a lot of folk contributing to Ubuntu art | 09:21 |
| cbx33 | yeh | 09:21 |
| cbx33 | ok I'll draft up an email... | 09:21 |
| willvdl | if we have representation in those channels then well get stuff I'm sure | 09:21 |
| cbx33 | ok if I run it by you willvdl ? | 09:21 |
| willvdl | sure | 09:21 |
| === pips1 glances at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork | ||
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| willvdl | Is there anyway we can merge our Artowrk "space" with the ubuntu artwork "space"? | 09:22 |
| cbx33 | hmmm | 09:22 |
| cbx33 | possibly I suppose | 09:22 |
| pips1 | hi LaserJock | 09:22 |
| willvdl | quote: feisty will be designed by cliff | 09:23 |
| LaserJock | hi everybody | 09:23 |
| highvoltage | hey LaserJock | 09:23 |
| willvdl | as with dapper. how did that affect edubuntu back then? | 09:23 |
| LaserJock | uggg | 09:23 |
| highvoltage | dapper was a tough one | 09:24 |
| LaserJock | willvdl: armed revolt? :-) | 09:24 |
| pips1 | "Feisty artwork will be design by Cliff -- the fellow who designed the Dapper look. Do not expect to be able to contribute until sabdfl releases the official work. It is closed design involving Cliff and sabdfl only." | 09:24 |
| willvdl | LaseJock, dodgy prawn? | 09:24 |
| highvoltage | ogra and janew weren't very happy that they didn't have any say in the artwork | 09:24 |
| cbx33 | does that include edubuntu do we know? | 09:24 |
| willvdl | did edubuntu do its own artwork in dapper? | 09:24 |
| highvoltage | willvdl: hired artist | 09:24 |
| willvdl | for backgrounds, splash and icons? | 09:25 |
| highvoltage | willvdl: except for icons | 09:25 |
| cbx33 | we had a wallpaper in main though didn't we | 09:25 |
| pips1 | "Currently we are attempting to collect all art related people under the ubuntu-art team on Launchpad. This has been quite successful thus far, and therefore one should consider the ubuntu-art team as a good starting point for work. For links to legacy pages, please see the following links: EdubuntuArtwork ..." | 09:25 |
| willvdl | legacy pages | 09:25 |
| pips1 | hmm | 09:26 |
| cbx33 | sounds old | 09:26 |
| LaserJock | is there a rationale behind not letting the community do the artwork? | 09:26 |
| LaserJock | it seems to go back and forth, kinda annoying | 09:26 |
| pips1 | yeah | 09:26 |
| willvdl | http://art.ubuntu.com/main.php | 09:26 |
| willvdl | anyway, it is still very valuable to have contributions regardless of closed design | 09:27 |
| cbx33 | well for a start we have more than just one wallpaper | 09:27 |
| pips1 | oh, I didn't know they had revanped the art.u.c site | 09:27 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: I don't think there's anythin wrong with Canonical hiring people to improve Ubuntu's artwork... but... \ | 09:27 |
| pips1 | *revamped | 09:27 |
| cbx33 | highvoltage, I agree | 09:27 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: if there are better community submisions, it should be considered too, imho | 09:27 |
| cbx33 | maybe for get someone behind it to drive it in right direction | 09:28 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: but they won't consider them if they are already contracting people, it would be a waste of money | 09:28 |
| willvdl | highvoltage, LaserJock : that is how I would expect things to be run | 09:28 |
| cbx33 | so will that be for Edubuntu too.....? | 09:28 |
| cbx33 | can we confirm this | 09:28 |
| willvdl | just like Canonical hires kernel developers | 09:29 |
| highvoltage | cbx33: by ubuntu I mean *buntu | 09:29 |
| willvdl | cbx33, I will check | 09:29 |
| cbx33 | ah ok | 09:29 |
| LaserJock | willvdl: it's a bit different, IMO | 09:29 |
| willvdl | LaserJock, only if handled badly | 09:29 |
| LaserJock | which it seems to have been historically | 09:29 |
| LaserJock | artwork that is | 09:29 |
| cbx33 | basically how much should we push the artwork in Edubuntu | 09:29 |
| cbx33 | and how much is going to be forced upon us | 09:30 |
| LaserJock | the Canonical hired kernel guys work in the open with patches, ML etc. | 09:30 |
| LaserJock | generally we get to see the artwork when it's released | 09:30 |
| willvdl | My opinion is to push contributions anyway | 09:30 |
| willvdl | what we build now can always be used later or even make it in if the process allows | 09:30 |
| willvdl | plus we keep the community active | 09:31 |
| pips1 | willvdl: but it's not very encouraging for designers, if the aren't any clear known "rules" | 09:31 |
| cbx33 | exactl | 09:31 |
| cbx33 | y | 09:31 |
| pips1 | clear procedures... so you know what to expect and what not to expect | 09:31 |
| cbx33 | it's pretty upsetting infact | 09:31 |
| willvdl | agreed, but note that art.u.c gets contributions regardless | 09:31 |
| cbx33 | when someone has worked really hard .... | 09:31 |
| cbx33 | willvdl, it's a little different | 09:31 |
| LaserJock | especially when the dev community all say the want a community artwork and are ignored | 09:32 |
| LaserJock | *they | 09:32 |
| cbx33 | because edubuntu last relase had 2 contributors | 09:32 |
| cbx33 | so it makes it a little more personal | 09:32 |
| willvdl | I hear you guys and agree | 09:32 |
| willvdl | I'm just saying we should not stop contributing | 09:32 |
| cbx33 | no, but can you see how.....in a big community like ubuntu it just means a drop in contributions | 09:33 |
| cbx33 | but that with a tiny team....2 people that can make or break the contributions full stop | 09:33 |
| willvdl | yeah. | 09:34 |
| === pips1 reads the introduction on http://art.ubuntu.com/main.php | ||
| willvdl | OK, PoA: | 09:34 |
| LaserJock | especially when the community isn't consulted at all | 09:34 |
| pips1 | cbx33: good point | 09:34 |
| willvdl | will check on procedures, policies etc internally | 09:34 |
| cbx33 | also.... | 09:35 |
| willvdl | and, seperate issue, try and integrate more with artwork team for leverage? | 09:35 |
| pips1 | ok, willvdl to report back at the next meeting :-) | 09:35 |
| willvdl | just not sure immediately how to achieve the latter | 09:35 |
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| willvdl | There's definately enough concern on the issue to raise it | 09:36 |
| pips1 | how relevant is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art ? | 09:37 |
| pips1 | ... to edubuntu artwork, I mean | 09:37 |
| highvoltage | pips1: fairly | 09:38 |
| highvoltage | pips1: edubuntu inherits some of the ubuntu artwork stuff | 09:38 |
| highvoltage | pips1: like firefox themes, etx | 09:38 |
| highvoltage | *etc | 09:38 |
| willvdl | any *buntu artwork work should include/be relevant to edubuntu IMHO | 09:38 |
| highvoltage | pips1: and the edubuntu gtk theme is normally derived from whatever theme is in use on edubuntu | 09:38 |
| highvoltage | I mean, Ubuntu | 09:38 |
| === highvoltage really needs some sleep | ||
| cbx33 | nn highvoltage | 09:39 |
| cbx33 | ;) | 09:39 |
| highvoltage | cbx33: heh. I'll hold out a bit :) | 09:39 |
| willvdl | Okie, lets discuss further on ML and I'll try find out what I can | 09:40 |
| cbx33 | ok | 09:40 |
| pips1 | In that case, it might be a good idea to link to that launchpad specifications page from the artwork wiki page, so the community artists (i.e. AliasVegas) know what is done for ubuntu... | 09:41 |
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| willvdl | from EdubuntuArtwork? | 09:41 |
| pips1 | yep | 09:41 |
| pips1 | just a thought | 09:42 |
| willvdl | what interests me is that the artwork team consider EdubuntuArt as legacy page | 09:42 |
| willvdl | assuming the community is already integrated | 09:42 |
| cbx33 | yeh...funny that | 09:42 |
| willvdl | We should fix that | 09:42 |
| cbx33 | i don't remember anyone talking to Lisa about it ;) | 09:42 |
| willvdl | it's a perception | 09:43 |
| pips1 | well things are always moving fast in ubuntu land :-) and it's hard to keep up with what is going on everywhere | 09:43 |
| willvdl | :) | 09:43 |
| willvdl | shall we move to docs? | 09:44 |
| cbx33 | ok | 09:44 |
| willvdl | === Documentation === | 09:44 |
| willvdl | I've been thinking about doc contributions somewhat | 09:45 |
| willvdl | and have chatted to a number of folk | 09:45 |
| cbx33 | ok | 09:45 |
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| willvdl | on wiki contributions vs SVN contributions | 09:45 |
| willvdl | meaning wiki = open collaboration | 09:46 |
| willvdl | and svn = open collaboration but large barrier | 09:46 |
| willvdl | how do you folks feel? | 09:46 |
| LaserJock | depends on the doc, IMO | 09:47 |
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| willvdl | true | 09:47 |
| pips1 | wiki = medium barrier too, AFAIK | 09:47 |
| LaserJock | if you want it stable and need to be in various formats do docbook | 09:47 |
| LaserJock | with svn | 09:47 |
| willvdl | yip, but the svn authors can pull their info form the wiki | 09:48 |
| willvdl | if the wiki is used as the "development" space | 09:48 |
| pips1 | hold on, we are talking about a variety of tools and formats here... | 09:48 |
| willvdl | true | 09:48 |
| pips1 | docbook = format | 09:48 |
| pips1 | svn = versioned repository | 09:49 |
| pips1 | wiki = versioned repository with web frontend | 09:49 |
| pips1 | no? | 09:49 |
| willvdl | yip | 09:50 |
| willvdl | also docs in svn get packaged | 09:50 |
| LaserJock | wiki also = format | 09:50 |
| pips1 | willvdl: how do you imagine your "perfect" documentation process? | 09:50 |
| willvdl | perfect? :) | 09:51 |
| willvdl | well, I'm just again trying to leverage contributions | 09:51 |
| Joe5656 | !Question How do I leave this channel? I'm not at the right channel here.... My apologies for interrupting you all! | 09:51 |
| pips1 | LaserJock: ok, wiki stores the information in its own format, that's right | 09:51 |
| willvdl | and was thinking back to a conversation I had with pips1 vefore the holidays | 09:51 |
| willvdl | and others | 09:52 |
| willvdl | being that the wiki is the easiest and most open tool and repo we have for contributions | 09:52 |
| willvdl | Would something like this work?: Docs get planned and "authored" to a degree on the wiki. At logical times the SVN authors pull this info into the docbook files | 09:53 |
| pips1 | well, ideally we could have a super userfriendly "frontend" tool combined with the benefits of a standard format such as docbook... | 09:54 |
| willvdl | although my suggestion is contrary to using Launchpad, bug-reporting etc | 09:54 |
| pips1 | how so? | 09:54 |
| === pips1 isn't sure he is following willvdl | ||
| LaserJock | Joe5656: /leave | 09:55 |
| Joe5656 | Thanks laser! | 09:55 |
| LaserJock | I'm not sure that easy contribution is always the way to go though ... | 09:55 |
| willvdl | perhaps LaserJock can help me here, but LP tracks the docs (in whatever format) and contributions are made in patches, bug-reports or specs | 09:55 |
| LaserJock | sometimes a little barrier isn't a bad thing | 09:55 |
| LaserJock | well, we have an upstream product | 09:56 |
| LaserJock | people can file bugs against that | 09:56 |
| LaserJock | and we can write specs | 09:56 |
| LaserJock | patches are sent to the ML | 09:56 |
| willvdl | perhaps we should take a step back here | 09:57 |
| willvdl | and look at what docs we are needing | 09:57 |
| willvdl | We need an install guide prob | 09:58 |
| willvdl | release-notes & about page | 09:59 |
| willvdl | and LTSP info as it forms part of our release | 10:00 |
| willvdl | given the topics, and the authors, what would the best tools be? | 10:00 |
| willvdl | pips1 what are your thoughts? | 10:03 |
| sbalneav | Sorry to interject, but is the svn repo for the handbook still on digitalredneck? | 10:04 |
| willvdl | nope. moved into docteam.u.c | 10:04 |
| sbalneav | Do I still have commit? | 10:05 |
| pips1 | Off the top of my head: About (Intro/Overview, Release Notes, Sources of further help, ...), Installation and Configuration Guide (Desktop Guide, Server Guide, plus specifically LTSP), Customisation ("Cookbook"), plus How to contribute to Edubuntu Project. | 10:05 |
| willvdl | sbalneav, best check with mdke or someone | 10:05 |
| willvdl | not sure | 10:05 |
| cbx33 | sorry guys I'm gonna have to duck out, splitting headache | 10:06 |
| willvdl | pips1 the "guides": meaning the ubuntu ones or our own? | 10:06 |
| cbx33 | and tired | 10:06 |
| pips1 | willvdl: we can probably reuse the "Ubuntu Guides", but I haven't really looked into that, so I don't really know. | 10:07 |
| willvdl | I'd like to open a discussion on the handbook aim again. I think things have move along alot since it was created | 10:08 |
| LaserJock | well, it's also noteworthy that Ubuntu and Kubuntu are moving away from "guides" | 10:08 |
| pips1 | The Desktop Guide and the Server Guide from Ubuntu are shipped with Edubuntu anyway, right? | 10:09 |
| willvdl | pips1, have you looked at the Topic Based Help spec? | 10:09 |
| willvdl | thinks so | 10:09 |
| pips1 | LaserJock: tell us more? | 10:09 |
| LaserJock | right now, Edubuntu ships ubuntu-docs | 10:10 |
| pips1 | yep | 10:10 |
| LaserJock | pips1: the doc team is going for a more topic based approach | 10:10 |
| LaserJock | so if we just basically created add-on topics to cover Edubuntu specifics | 10:10 |
| === pips1 reads https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-based-help | ||
| LaserJock | we can "blend in" with the rest of Ubuntu docs | 10:11 |
| LaserJock | and there would be no duplication | 10:11 |
| willvdl | LaserJock, this would be the domain of the Handbook right? | 10:11 |
| tsmithe | @schedule | 10:12 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Jan 15:00: Xubuntu | 24 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00: Technical Board | 10:12 |
| pips1 | In the spec it says "The Ubuntu/Kubuntu documentation teams do not have the resources to implement a topic-based help system from scratch. So for now we should restrict our efforts to reorganizing the Desktop Guide and Server Guide, to make the documentation easier to navigate." | 10:12 |
| LaserJock | willvdl: what I'm saying is that I'm not sure that a "Handbook" fits in with the way documentation in Ubuntu and upstream are heading | 10:12 |
| LaserJock | it's fine for a book, or an all-inclusive PDF or something | 10:13 |
| LaserJock | which I think there would be a demand for | 10:13 |
| willvdl | LaserJock, I chatted to Sean Wheller about that earlier | 10:13 |
| willvdl | and looked at the original aim of the handbook again | 10:13 |
| LaserJock | but I think you could do that with the TBH approach anyway | 10:13 |
| willvdl | and I think you're right in a sense | 10:13 |
| willvdl | But the handbook aim was as an install/customisation/basic usage guide? | 10:15 |
| LaserJock | it was meant by Mario to be a book | 10:15 |
| sbalneav | LTSP, though, isn't something that fits well into TBH. There's a lot of pre-tech stuff, and the whole "integration into my windows network" thing's a pain. | 10:15 |
| LaserJock | the one-stop shop for Edubuntu | 10:15 |
| willvdl | sbalneav, I thought you might say that | 10:15 |
| willvdl | LaserJock, it can still be but we need TBH to "mature" first | 10:16 |
| willvdl | IMHO | 10:16 |
| sbalneav | The problem with LTSP is, it's really a "tech" thing, and not a user thing. | 10:16 |
| LaserJock | sbalneav: well, I'm not sure why having a "Configuring an LTSP Server" would be a had topic | 10:16 |
| LaserJock | s/had/bad/ | 10:16 |
| LaserJock | ok, so I think the decision needs to be made there | 10:17 |
| willvdl | it becomes an interesting topic to squeeze in since it depends on the specific network topology | 10:17 |
| LaserJock | what do you want to present in the user's help system | 10:17 |
| LaserJock | and what do you want to provide online | 10:17 |
| sbalneav | It would be a big topic. Usually TBH is supposed to be "short snapper" type help, isn't it? Or am I smoking crack again? | 10:17 |
| LaserJock | sbalneav: ideally yeah | 10:17 |
| LaserJock | sbalneav: but we have the Server Guide in there | 10:18 |
| LaserJock | which isn't all that non-tech | 10:18 |
| sbalneav | I'm good either way. | 10:18 |
| willvdl | LTSP would fit into the server guide logically right? | 10:18 |
| sbalneav | Right. | 10:18 |
| LaserJock | I think you guys should take a look at the feisty docs | 10:18 |
| LaserJock | just to get a feel for what it's like | 10:19 |
| willvdl | but, as I understand from ogra, installing it ontop of ubuntu versus out of edubuntu is slightly difference | 10:19 |
| LaserJock | and see if you think it could fit in well there | 10:19 |
| willvdl | *different | 10:19 |
| LaserJock | willvdl: Ubuntu users wouldn't see it | 10:19 |
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| willvdl | LaserJock, the doc? or ltsp? | 10:20 |
| LaserJock | ltsp stuff | 10:20 |
| willvdl | but thry could if they chose | 10:20 |
| LaserJock | that's what I'm saying, LTSP would be inserted into the help system on Edubuntu machines | 10:20 |
| LaserJock | if they installed edubuntu-docs | 10:21 |
| willvdl | cool. so we definitely need LTSP doc & LTCM (SCP) doc | 10:21 |
| LaserJock | well, you don't have a ton of time for all this | 10:22 |
| willvdl | plus install guide & customisation guide as a first priority? | 10:22 |
| LaserJock | String Freeze is March 8th | 10:23 |
| willvdl | I know | 10:23 |
| willvdl | and I'm not around for much of Feb or March | 10:23 |
| LaserJock | well, I still think you need to seperate out exactly what you want for shipped material vs. online material | 10:23 |
| willvdl | trying to | 10:24 |
| willvdl | personally I'd like as much as possible shipped. | 10:24 |
| willvdl | sbalneav, you're putting your stuff in the handbook right? | 10:25 |
| pips1 | sbalneav: regarding your 'short snapper' comment earlier... I just discovered the useful tips on writing help docs here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHelp/PageStructure | 10:26 |
| willvdl | pips1, something else we should maybe look at... | 10:27 |
| willvdl | some of our docs are in the drupal CMS. maybe start moving them to the svn? | 10:28 |
| willvdl | I've also been reading your various planning pages for the web/wiki | 10:29 |
| pips1 | did you make any sense from them? | 10:30 |
| willvdl | yeah. alot had to do with setting up drupal site. looots of info | 10:31 |
| willvdl | good stuff | 10:31 |
| willvdl | I'd like to chat to you later or tomorrow about some content? | 10:31 |
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| pips1 | willvdl: I agree with LaserJock that there is a difference between shipped / "solid" documentation and online / flexible documentation... | 10:32 |
| willvdl | yes. | 10:32 |
| willvdl | just trying to decide what we should work on as priority for shipped docs | 10:32 |
| pips1 | ok | 10:32 |
| pips1 | and there needs to be a process for moving and refining online/in flux docs to shippable documentation | 10:33 |
| willvdl | yip. what I was asking earlier | 10:33 |
| willvdl | depends on the doc and author | 10:34 |
| willvdl | Specifically the release-notes and About page can be handled like that | 10:34 |
| pips1 | They way I see it, we will have community members' "input" in both drupal and the wiki... | 10:35 |
| willvdl | well not the drupal... ? | 10:35 |
| pips1 | drupal will have forums, and eventually community members will write stuff that is worthy and valid documentation... ? | 10:35 |
| willvdl | but there is ubuntuforums.org? | 10:36 |
| willvdl | anyway, I am following you | 10:37 |
| pips1 | (drupal also has a nice "book" content type, for "sequential"/ordered content). | 10:37 |
| willvdl | pips1, how do you envisage using something like that for community contribution? | 10:38 |
| willvdl | sine it is not really a versioning tool... | 10:38 |
| pips1 | willvdl: RichEd and me discussed the "filtering" process at UDS MV... we haven't quite gone into implementational details (with Drupal) yet. | 10:38 |
| willvdl | ah, you mean the community education site? or www.edubuntu.org? | 10:39 |
| pips1 | (willvdl: note I'm not sure if / I don't actually think we want to use the "drupal book" content type at all). I guess I shouldn't have mentioned it. | 10:40 |
| pips1 | willvdl: I'm talking about the community site | 10:40 |
| willvdl | no worries, it's the concept that's important | 10:40 |
| willvdl | pips1 something else I'd like to push with doc team is the Quality Assurance spec | 10:40 |
| pips1 | link ? | 10:41 |
| willvdl | which has policies for Release sensitive help pages | 10:41 |
| === willvdl looks | ||
| pips1 | ohhh, that would be very interesting indeed | 10:42 |
| willvdl | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+spec/help-wiki-quality-assurance | 10:42 |
| willvdl | so that we don't confuse edgy docs with dapper etc. | 10:42 |
| willvdl | I think it's very easy to do. | 10:43 |
| pips1 | willvdl: explain how... | 10:43 |
| willvdl | edgy pages go in a edgy sub-page | 10:43 |
| willvdl | or have an edgy name space for example | 10:43 |
| willvdl | EdubuntuEdgyXXXXX | 10:44 |
| willvdl | or EdubuntuXXXXX/Edgy/ | 10:44 |
| dsas | Or says at the top of the page. "Applies to Edgy and Feisty" | 10:44 |
| willvdl | dsas, yip. or even categories | 10:45 |
| dsas | easier then for docs that apply to multiple releases to not have redundant copies. | 10:45 |
| willvdl | but namesacing makes it easier for scripts and preserves namespace for future release docs | 10:45 |
| willvdl | dsas, redirects | 10:45 |
| === pips1 notes that the spec is for improving the functionality of moin moin wiki, but the spec is new, so it probably won't be implemented shortly (?) | ||
| willvdl | anyway it's a topic for debate in the doc-team | 10:46 |
| willvdl | not edubuntu | 10:46 |
| willvdl | OK we need to wrap up. Let's flag the Online/Offline doc inclusion as an Unresolved Issue | 10:47 |
| pips1 | I will just note that on the future edubuntu community space, we can simply use drupal's tagging feature | 10:47 |
| willvdl | cool. tags will work too | 10:48 |
| willvdl | pips1 are you around tomorrow morning? | 10:49 |
| pips1 | hmm | 10:49 |
| willvdl | or friday? | 10:49 |
| pips1 | friday is better, I got a bunch of work I need to do tomorrow | 10:50 |
| pips1 | let's set a time | 10:50 |
| willvdl | cool. just want to confirm some stuff with you | 10:50 |
| willvdl | let's set time after meeting | 10:50 |
| pips1 | ok | 10:51 |
| willvdl | Anyone want to bring anything else to the table? | 10:51 |
| willvdl | Oh, cbx33 is going to write the Edubuntu chapter in the Ubuntu Book!!! | 10:51 |
| willvdl | He wants a call for suggestions/ feedback etc. | 10:51 |
| pips1 | heh | 10:51 |
| willvdl | Let's give him some support on this, it's good for us :) | 10:52 |
| willvdl | Okie going once? | 10:52 |
| pips1 | are you talking about the printed book, or wha? | 10:53 |
| willvdl | yip | 10:53 |
| pips1 | *what? | 10:53 |
| pips1 | ah | 10:53 |
| willvdl | official ubuntu book | 10:53 |
| willvdl | going twice? | 10:53 |
| pips1 | ah.. an updated version, I take it... what is the timeline for it? | 10:53 |
| willvdl | no idea unfortunately | 10:54 |
| willvdl | best ask cbx33 :) | 10:54 |
| pips1 | righty | 10:54 |
| willvdl | Okie, six minutes short of two hours and we've covered some serious debate :) | 10:55 |
| willvdl | let's take the edubuntu doc discussion to the ML and to the ubuntu-doc team | 10:55 |
| pips1 | Good to hear about all that documentation thoughts.. | 10:56 |
| willvdl | pips1 it is a big and confusing monster | 10:56 |
| willvdl | but fun | 10:56 |
| pips1 | :-) | 10:56 |
| willvdl | OK, thrice. thanks folks. I'll have minutes up as soon as possible | 10:57 |
| pips1 | Thanks | 10:57 |
| pips1 | cu all! | 10:58 |
| willvdl | ciao | 10:59 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Jan 15:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 31 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
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