[12:15] <bddebian> Later gang
[12:24] <sistpoty> hi folks
[12:24] <Lutin> hi sistpoty 
[12:24] <sistpoty> hi Lutin
[12:25] <LaserJock> siretart: sweet news on revu keyring updates :-)
[12:26] <sistpoty> hi LaserJock
[12:26] <LaserJock> hi sistpoty
[12:26] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I really like that proposal of -proposed as a DMZ ;)
[12:27] <LaserJock> I would think as long as we enforce ~propX versioning we would be ok
[12:27] <LaserJock> but I could be wrong
[12:28] <sistpoty> LaserJock: that's the problem if we don't review at all before an upload to -proposed... but still it might give us some benefits that way
[12:28] <sistpoty> s/some/major/ ;)
[12:28] <LaserJock> well, do you know what ubuntu-archive looks for now?
[12:29] <sistpoty> no, not really
[12:29] <LaserJock> if it needs 3 MOTU SRU acks before it goes in surely the motu-sru team could enforce versioning
[12:30] <crimsun> I'm a bit displeased here.
[12:30] <LaserJock> uh oh
[12:30] <sistpoty> LaserJock: that's true... but I'm even thinking a little further like "no reviewing before -proposed", just fire off
[12:30] <crimsun> We failed -utterly- to define what constitutes a serious regression.
[12:31] <sistpoty> crimsun: right...
[12:31] <LaserJock> crimsun: do you think we are doing too many SRUs?
[12:31] <crimsun> Essentially, I feel we've been wasting time processing SRUs that are -not- serious.
[12:31] <crimsun> Does bug X make your program erase your data?
[12:31] <crimsun> Does bug X hard-freeze your machine?
[12:31] <crimsun> Does bug kill your mother?
[12:32] <LaserJock> well, do you think that uninstallable, completely unusable (segfault, etc.) count?
[12:32] <sistpoty> crimsun: OTOH most of the bugs we taggled were broken packages... so if s.o. wants to fix it, we should encourage that imho
[12:32] <crimsun> No, I don't, LaserJock.
[12:32] <LaserJock> so it's not a regression that a package worked in Dapper, but doesn't in Edgy?
[12:33] <crimsun> Of course it's a regression
[12:33] <LaserJock> and by worked I mean installs or even starts?
[12:33] <sistpoty> also it's quite hard to tell which package is being used by really many people and thus would warrant an SRU
[12:33] <crimsun> is it a -serious- (as in grave, RC-worthy) regression?
[12:33] <LaserJock> I think it's -serious- if you can't even install the thing, or it doesn't even start
[12:33] <crimsun> obviously every bug can be rated grave/RC-worthy by some subset of users
[12:34] <crimsun> I think it's a candidate for a serious bug if there's no available fix in the current development version.
[12:34] <LaserJock> to be honest, I'd love to just say "screw it, what's released is released. let's moved on"
[12:35] <sistpoty> and to focus on getting ubuntu+1 in better shape?
[12:35] <LaserJock> crimsun: that seem a little twisted though. "Fix your stable release by upgrading to the unstable release"
[12:36] <crimsun> LaserJock: how many of these bugs are reported against 6.06 LTS?
[12:36] <crimsun> I've seen a handful hit SRU
[12:36] <LaserJock> mostly Edgy
[12:36] <crimsun> the vast majority are for 6.10
[12:36] <sistpoty> yes
[12:36] <LaserJock> that's a stable release
[12:36] <LaserJock> I mean, I know what you're saying
[12:37] <sistpoty> well, imo universe was in quite suboptimal state for edgy :/
[12:37] <crimsun> I'm convinced we, as a community maintaining universe, have to seriously reconsider what "support" means.
[12:37] <LaserJock> crimsun: k, that makes sense
[12:37] <crimsun> for LTS to mean anything, 6.10 isn't as high a priority as 6.06
[12:37] <LaserJock> sure
[12:38] <LaserJock> but if people want to contribute fixes for 6.10 should we deny them just because it's not LTS?
[12:38] <crimsun> no, not at all
[12:39] <LaserJock> I agree that we should prioritize on Feisty, as it's better to produce a good release then fixing it after the fact
[12:39] <crimsun> discouraging SRUs is not a resolution
[12:39] <crimsun> clarifying what SRUs must fulfill is a start
[12:39] <sistpoty> we just need *many* more motu's :)
[12:39] <allee> heh, nice timing.  I too was pondering the last minutes how to handle the dapper bug(let) and if there's a policy.
[12:39] <crimsun> up to a point that may help
[12:39] <LaserJock> is SRU really taking up a lot of time?
[12:40] <crimsun> we have a HUGE number of MOTU
[12:40] <crimsun> how many are really active?
[12:40] <crimsun> it's the mythical man-month all over again
[12:40] <LaserJock> but are MOTU having to do a lot for SRU is my point
[12:40] <sistpoty> hehe, I just wanted to write "active" ;)
[12:40] <LaserJock> it seems like our bottleneck is mostly ubuntu-archive
[12:41] <LaserJock> granted, I'm not disagreeing with you crimsun 
[12:41] <LaserJock> I'm just not sure what we are supposed to do exactly
[12:42] <sistpoty> LaserJock: merges! merges! merges!  ;)
[12:42] <LaserJock> heh, which ones?
[12:42] <crimsun> allee: there's policy, and there are at least two motu-sru active right this moment, so if have an unprocessed one, give the url, please
[12:42] <sistpoty> all, preferable these with grave bugs in unstable fixed ;)
[12:43] <allee> sistpoty:[23:45]  <allee> Tonio_: have you seen the reminder for bug 73617
[12:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73617 in digikam "SRU proposal" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/73617
[12:43] <crimsun> [this is sounding like I need three or four sets of "office hours"] 
[12:44] <sistpoty> allee: digikam is in main... 
[12:44] <crimsun> allee: that's not motu-sru's realm
[12:44] <sistpoty> *g*
[12:44] <allee> crimsun: [23:39]  <allee> hi MOTUs.  Digikam*-doc did not make it into dapper (they are in edgy, feist).  Is this important enough to request a backport (no changes needed).  Bug 57833
[12:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57833 in digikam "digikam has missing documentation" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57833
[12:45] <allee> sistpoty: ah right, it moved to main for edgy
[12:45] <LaserJock> crimsun: so are you thinking we should be tighter on accepting SRUs?
[12:45] <Tonio_> allee: yeah that's main purpose.... I have to ping cjwatson, has mdz nerver responded me on that point
[12:45] <crimsun> allee: yes, backport-worthy
[12:45] <crimsun> LaserJock: we first need to be -very- explicit about what constitutes a serious regression.
[12:46] <LaserJock> crimsun: I agree with that
[12:46] <allee> crimsun: okay, thx.  I lookup the bp procedure ...
[12:46] <LaserJock> although I think it has to remain a call of motu-sru mostly
[12:47] <crimsun> correct, there won't be a blanket "serious"
[12:47] <crimsun> but right now that point is too vague
[12:56] <sistpoty> btw.: what about a motu meeting? is s.o. already working to organize one?
[12:58] <crimsun> no, but I will need to comb the motu-verification-needed tags to send something to UWN/fridge
[12:59] <sistpoty> cool
[12:59] <LaserJock> oh, btw
[12:59] <sistpoty> should I write a mail about motu meeting to -motu?
[01:00] <LaserJock> I asked #launchpad about creating a product for people to file bugs for new package requests
[01:00] <LaserJock> but kiko didn't want us to use a product that way
[01:00] <sistpoty> :(
[01:00] <LaserJock> instead he suggested using a tag
[01:00] <LaserJock> and I said that that could get messy
[01:00] <crimsun> sistpoty: call for votes on meeting time & date? yes, please
[01:00] <crimsun> ewww
[01:00] <crimsun> running build_ext
[01:00] <crimsun> *** glibc detected *** python2.5: free(): invalid pointer: 0x401da0e0 ***
[01:01] <sistpoty> crimsun: ok will do
[01:01] <LaserJock> so I ended up filing a bug against Malone to so that we can preload +filebug with tags
[01:01] <LaserJock> so we could give https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?tag=universe-request to people
[01:02] <sistpoty> LaserJock: nice
[01:02] <LaserJock> we could also use that for other things
[01:04] <jbailey> How are snapshots of things usually handled?  I'm building an updated gnash, and it seems to want a newer snapshot of ffmpeg.
[01:04] <jbailey> I'm curious what the criteria for uploading an SVN snap would be - ffmpeg is currently one, and doesn't seem headed towards a release anytime soon.
[01:05] <slomo> jbailey: i bet you don't want to update ffmpeg :) if you do so you probably need to fix all rdepends, bump soname, etc as they like to change API/ABI each day or something ;)
[01:06] <jbailey> Joy.
[01:06] <sistpoty> jbailey: FWIW there isn't really a criteria for svn snapshots... however for ffmpeg siretart has plans IIRC... 
[01:06] <jbailey> Why are the most critical pieces of infrastructure always crap?
[01:06] <jbailey> =)
[01:06] <ajmitch> because people are 'creative'
[01:06] <jbailey> Heh
[01:07] <sistpoty> hehe
[01:07] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[01:07] <crimsun> it makes me chuckle that the soname for debian-multimedia's ffmpeg is _51_
[01:07] <jbailey> soname or soversion?
[01:07] <crimsun> the latter, sorry
[01:07] <jbailey> Oh good. =)
[01:07] <jbailey> WEll not *good*
[01:08] <jbailey> but you know...
[01:08] <jbailey> =)
[01:08] <Burgwork> is it really that hard to maintain API and ABI stability?
[01:08] <ajmitch> hi sistpoty 
[01:08] <crimsun> to whom are you posing that question? O:-)
[01:08] <Burgwork> the world
[01:09] <Burgwork> in general frustration with ffmpeg
[01:09] <ajmitch> a cry of despair 
[01:09] <sistpoty> Burgwork: it's not that hard... but it's way more easy and entertaining to just not care about api stability
[01:09] <Burgwork> failure to see the world beyond your own set of blinders is a common afliction, apparently
[01:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: what were you saying before about keyring updates?
[01:10] <sistpoty> Burgwork: as you'll always end up dragging old interfaces for api-stability around, and need to care for these as well
[01:11] <Burgwork> true, but there is a difference between breaking them deliberately (ala gstreamer) and just not caring
[01:11] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, tiber's MOTD says that anybody with a tiber account can sync the keyring
[01:12] <ajmitch> LaserJock: oh right
[01:12] <ajmitch> so I don't need to be bugged about it again :)
[01:12] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:12] <LaserJock> :-)
[01:12] <ajmitch> I wondered why sudo didn't ask me for the password this morning
[01:13] <sistpoty> sheesh, I never did the -u revu1 *g*
[01:13] <crimsun> mmm yeah, I'm making python2.5 explode
[01:14] <sistpoty> fridge displays "f_ie_sty" developer sprint *g*
[01:14] <ajmitch> still?
[01:17] <sistpoty> ok, current candidates for meeting:
[01:17] <sistpoty> * Sunday, January 21st, 14.00h UTC
[01:17] <sistpoty> * Monday, January 22nd, 20.00h UTC
[01:17] <sistpoty> * Tuesday, January 23rd, 12.00h UTC
[01:17] <sistpoty> anything I should change right away?
[01:17] <sistpoty> (before sending the mail)
[01:18] <ajmitch> hm
[01:18] <ajmitch> how long do we have to decide?
[01:18] <ajmitch> about 2 days?
[01:18] <ajmitch> don't drag it out :)
[01:19] <LaserJock> It'd be real tough for me to do 14:00 or 12:00 UTC
[01:20] <ajmitch> 14:00 would be 3AM for me, lots of fun
[01:20] <ajmitch> but it's up to everyone else
[01:20] <sistpoty> ajmitch: decisions until Saturday, 12.00UTC?
[01:20] <crimsun> I LOVE personal repos.
[01:21] <ajmitch> sistpoty: whatever works, just give people enough warning time for the meeting itself
[01:21] <crimsun> wait, let me stress that. I LOVE. personal repos.
[01:21] <sistpoty> ok
[01:21] <crimsun> whew, good thing I didn't have a shotgun or that pony would be toast
[01:21] <sistpoty> ajmitch, LaserJock: how about 10.00 and 8.00 UTC then?
[01:22] <ajmitch> sistpoty: works for me
[01:22] <LaserJock> sistpoty: lets see that's 0:00 and 02:00 for me
[01:22] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I'm about the only one in this timezone though
[01:22] <LaserJock> me too
[01:22] <crimsun> Sun or Mon are feasible for me
[01:22] <ajmitch> most people seem to be europe or the US
[01:23] <sistpoty> for europe this would be early morning, so only the sleepy ones (like me) would need to get up early *g*
[01:24] <ajmitch> do we have a meeting agenda?
[01:25] <Nafallo> sistpoty: what time?
[01:25] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, we have SRU revisited
[01:25] <sistpoty> Nafallo: 8.00 UTC, 10.00 UTC and 20.00 UTC would be my current proposals
[01:26] <Nafallo> sistpoty: that's not CET hon' ;-)
[01:26] <sistpoty> *g*
[01:27] <sistpoty> Nafallo: you'd either need to stay up long for 8.00 UTC or to go to bed really early :P
[01:27] <Nafallo> still not CET ;-)
[01:28] <sistpoty> Nafallo: +1 then you're at CET 
[01:28] <LaserJock> isn't that like 10:00 CET?
[01:28] <LaserJock> oh +1, I was thinking +2
[01:28] <sistpoty> LaserJock: that would be CE_S_T  (daylight saving)
[01:28] <Nafallo> sistpoty: I'm lazy ;-)
[01:29] <LaserJock> sistpoty: ah
[01:35] <sistpoty> mail sent, time to vote :)
[01:36] <ScottK> sistpoty: Are you up for a REVU?  It's an upstream update (plus I added more documentation like man pages) of a package you've reviewed before - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4086
[01:36] <LaserJock> oh bugger, what's the way to test mtime in bash?
[01:37] <sistpoty> ScottK: ok, one review... but then I'll need to debug my parser *g*
[01:37] <ScottK> Thanks.
[01:38] <ajmitch> LaserJock: hm?
[01:38] <sistpoty> LaserJock: what's the situation about the maintainer field again? should we fiddle with it or just leave it as is?
[01:39] <LaserJock> sistpoty: we are supposed to fiddle with it but we're not sure what field to put the original mainatiner in
[01:39] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I need to test if a file has been modified since a certain time
[01:39] <sistpoty> LaserJock: ok. so that means basically don't fiddle with until we know more *g*
[01:40] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I guess :/
[01:40] <LaserJock> mdz hasn't really given us much
[01:40] <sistpoty> yes :/
[01:41] <ajmitch> LaserJock: hm, if I'm looking for a file, I generally use find for that
[01:41] <ajmitch> LaserJock: maybe stat?
[01:41] <LaserJock> as sladen emailed, it's variously Original-Maintainer:, Debian-Maintainer:, X-Original-Maintainer
[01:41] <LaserJock> and XBS-Original-Maintainer: was also suggested
[01:42] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I don't need to find a file, just using it like a timestamp
[01:44] <persia> LaserJock: Try a test between stat -c%Y filename and date +%s
[01:47] <rexbron> What is the URL for the uploads awaiting acceptance?
[01:49] <Nafallo> zZzZ
[01:50] <LaserJock> rexbron: acceptance in the NEW queue?
[01:52] <sistpoty> ScottK: IANAL, but imo you'll need to remove debian/rfc4408, as I couldn't find any rights that we may distribute it
[01:53] <ScottK> Good point.  Let me research that and I'll pull it if I can't find something.
[01:53] <ScottK> Urgh.
[01:53] <ScottK> Anthing else?
[01:54] <sistpoty> ScottK: if you find s.th. please update debian/copyright
[01:54] <sistpoty> ScottK: apart from that it doesn't build atm. (most probably the fault of python2.5 *g*)
[01:55] <ScottK> Weird.  It runs find in my Feisty chroot that I'm pretty sure is running 2.5.
[01:55] <ScottK> Thanks.
[01:55] <sistpoty> ScottK: IIRC my pbuilder is always late a day, since I'm using a german mirror
[01:56] <sistpoty> ScottK: apart from that it looks really good, though it's like seeing only half of the package if I can't build it ;)
[01:57] <rexbron> LaserJock: crimsun uploaded a package for me
[01:57] <rexbron> I am just wondering where I can check its status\
[01:58] <persia> rexbron: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<pkgname> is often a good start.
[01:59] <rexbron> it lists no builds
[02:00] <rexbron> crimsun mentioned that tollef had to accept it
[02:01] <crimsun> rexbron: which source package?
[02:02] <rexbron> murrine
[02:02] <crimsun> err
[02:03] <crimsun> when did I upload murrine? :D
[02:03] <crimsun> I have not dput anything with murrine in its string
[02:04] <rexbron> crimsun: [17:32]  <crimsun> ok, queued (ETA: 2 hr)
[02:04] <crimsun> rexbron: that means I'll -look- at revu in 2 hrs
[02:04] <rexbron> (from US-dev
[02:04] <rexbron> ok 
[02:05] <rexbron> crimsun: got the wrong impression
[02:17] <bronson> I'm using dpkg-buildpackage to build my packages right now.  Works great.
[02:17] <bronson> Problem is, since I want to use pbuilder, I need to use debuild.
[02:17] <zul> hey
[02:17] <bronson> And debuild makes it very difficult to specify "-sa" (include source in upload).
[02:18] <bronson> right?  Am I missing something?
[02:18] <crimsun> debuild -S -sa
[02:18] <crimsun> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa
[02:19] <bronson> crimsun: you sure?  Because the debuild manpage says: DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="-kJulian Gilbey <jdg@debian.org> -sa"
[02:19] <bronson> (as an example)
[02:19] <crimsun> am I sure of what?
[02:19] <bronson> And doesn't list -S or -sa as debuild arguments...
[02:19] <bronson> That debuild takes -S and -sa.
[02:20] <bronson> I guess debuild's manpage needs updating...
[02:20] <crimsun> of course it takes -S and -sa
[02:20] <crimsun> those are dpkg-buildpackage options
[02:21] <crimsun> it's fairly explicit in the debuild man page
[02:21] <crimsun> (See the Examples section)
[02:21] <bronson> But if it just takes dpkg-buildpackage arguments, what's the purpose of DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS?
[02:21] <bronson> Nevermind, you're right.
[02:21] <bronson> The synopsys says it takes dpkg-buildpackage options
[02:22] <bronson> awesome.  Sorry for my confusion.
[02:22] <bronson> crimsun: thanks.
[02:26] <crimsun> np
[02:31] <bronson> There's no need to pass -pgpg to debuild because it will do this automatically, right?
[02:32] <bronson> It's hard to tell from the manpage.
[02:34] <bronson> Actually, I think that's wrong: I still need to pass -pgpg?  sigh.
[02:36] <crimsun> debuild will sign unless told otherwise, yes.
[02:38] <rexbron> hey Hobbsee, would you be able to review murrine again? upid 4099
[02:38] <Hobbsee> crimsun: did you want to review it?
[02:39] <rexbron> Hobbsee: crimsun did
[02:39] <rexbron> check out the latest upload
[02:40] <Hobbsee> ah right
[02:44] <rexbron> Hobbsee: are you still going to examine it?
[02:45] <Hobbsee> rexbron: i'm going out, to LCA today sorry
[02:45] <rexbron> no problem
[02:45] <rexbron> have fun
[02:46] <rexbron> so any motu's up for a review, see upid 4099
[02:47] <rexbron> it already has one approval
[02:48] <rexbron> LaserJock: got the time for a review? upid 4099
[02:49] <Hobbsee> bha
[02:49] <Hobbsee> *bah
[02:50] <rexbron> lol ty
[02:50] <rexbron> just trying my darndest to get this thing approved
[02:52] <Hobbsee> crimsun: rexbron: why are there a whole lot of files in the diff outside debian/?
[02:52] <Hobbsee> not just the .bzr stuff
[02:52] <Hobbsee> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/murrine-0701171715/murrine_0.41-0ubuntu1.diff
[02:52] <rexbron> because upstream updated the source files with licences (at crimsun's request)
[02:53] <rexbron> but just updated the tarball
[02:53] <Hobbsee> ah
[02:53] <crimsun> Hobbsee: traditionally the pedigree of murrine has been a thorn, so I wanted to ensure that wasn't the case upon submission.
[02:53] <rexbron> might be an issue with multiple tarballs being named the same with .# extentions
[02:53] <Hobbsee> crimsun: gotcha.  this builds and runs fine?
[02:54] <crimsun> it builds and appears to provide a functional gtk engine
[02:54] <crimsun> themes are not bundled with it
[02:54] <Hobbsee> cool
[02:54] <Hobbsee> yeah
[02:54] <Hobbsee> crimsun: can you upload that please - i need to head out asap so i get to LCA on time
[02:55] <crimsun> sure.
[02:55] <Hobbsee> thanks
[02:56] <rexbron> yay
[03:01] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[03:03] <persia> I was adding an icon and .desktop to brutalchess, and noticed a new Debian version (new upstream version),  Should this be processed as a merge, or only a bugfix to the previous version?  There is no prior Ubuntu delta.
[03:04] <crimsun> merge it.
[03:04] <persia> crimsun: Thanks.
[03:05] <crimsun> we're not in UVF or FF yet, so new upstreams are still game
[03:06] <persia> crimsun: There seem to be about 500 packages in universe with newer versions in Debian that have no Ubuntu delta.  Are all of these targets for SYNC, assuming they build cleanly and fix useful bugs or provide useful features?
[03:07] <LaserJock> I think so
[03:07] <LaserJock> but generally if is useful as you say
[03:08] <LaserJock> merges are priority though
[03:09] <persia> LaserJock: Merges seem to be in pretty good shape, with most of the packages I've looked at recently either having a bug filed or < 1 week in Debian.  I'll look again.
[03:11] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:11] <persia> Hi bddebian
[03:11] <Hobbsee> persia: make sure you grab the request sync script
[03:12] <persia> Hobbsee: Where?
[03:12] <bddebian> Heya persia, Hobbsee
[03:12] <Hobbsee> persia: w.u.c/DeveloperResources
[03:12] <Hobbsee> hey bddebian 
[03:15] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: what does that script do?
[03:16] <LaserJock> it seems kinda weird to use a script for a sync request
[03:16] <persia> Hobbsee: My local mail is a mess.  May I continue following the format in bug 79338 (excepting the -XubuntuY explanantion if there is none)?
[03:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79338 in omniorb4 "Please sync omniorb4 4.0.6-2.3 (universe) from Debian Sid (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79338
[03:16] <persia> LaserJock: It collects all the right information and sends mail to launchpad: saves entry on LP directly.
[03:17] <StevenK> And requires a deb-src entry for the release name.
[03:17] <StevenK> Other than that, requestsync is Good[tm] .
[03:17] <LaserJock> why does it require a deb-src line?
[03:17] <persia> LaserJock: apt-cache madison
[03:18] <LaserJock> does that actually work?
[03:18] <LaserJock> that seems odd
[03:18] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% apt-cache madison libc6 libc6 | 2.4-1ubuntu12 | http://au.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages glibc | 2.5-0ubuntu8 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main Sources
[03:18] <StevenK> Of course it doesn't.
[03:19] <StevenK> (Insert linefeeds to taste)
[03:19] <LaserJock> well, I mean. I've never been able to get multible deb-src lines to work well
[03:19] <StevenK> How do they not work?
[03:20] <LaserJock> apt-get source doesn't work
[03:20] <StevenK> I need a little more information than that to debug it.
[03:20] <LaserJock> it's a know bug
[03:20] <LaserJock> known
[03:21] <StevenK> Personally, I have one deb-src line for feisty.
[03:21] <persia> StevenK: I also had trouble with apt-get -t <distribution> source <package>
[03:21] <LaserJock> yep
[03:22] <ajmitch> LaserJock: putting the exact version in works
[03:23] <LaserJock> heh, well if I'm going to do that I might as well dget it
[03:23] <LaserJock> I'm actually writing a script tonight for a wrapper around dget
[03:24] <persia> LaserJock: I thought dget didn't work for LP?
[03:24] <LaserJock> it doesn't
[03:24] <LaserJock> for debian though
[03:24] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: requests a sync, shows the debian changes, subscribes the correct people, etc
[03:24] <LaserJock> for Ubuntu I'm going to have to screen scrap I guess
[03:25] <Hobbsee> persia: i'd expect so
[03:25] <persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.  That's easier for me (as then I don't have to fix mail first).
[03:25] <Hobbsee> persia: do you need to fix local mail anyway to use it?  it's got the ubuntu smtp server, so you dont need a MTA
[03:26] <StevenK> persia: Set DEBEMAIL, and it will send directly to the Ubuntu LP SMTP server.
[03:26] <persia> Hobbsee: I missed that.  I'll give it a try.
[03:27] <persia> StevenK: Thanks for the details.
[03:28] <LaserJock> that's cool
[03:28] <LaserJock> I don't have mail set up either
[03:28] <persia> LaserJock: apt-get -c works fine for LP :)
[03:30] <LaserJock> can you give it alternate sources.list that way?
[03:31] <persia> LaserJock: Didn't I send you my src-get script?  You just need an alternate apt.conf that points to an alternate sources.list.
[03:32] <LaserJock> doh
[03:32] <LaserJock> I have it on my work computer. I forgot about it
[03:33] <persia> LaserJock: It's linked from my wiki page, if you want another copy.
[03:33] <LaserJock> I still have it
[03:36] <LaserJock> well, that solves part of my problem :-)
[03:36] <LaserJock> I wrote a script to create lists of -proposed
[03:36] <LaserJock> so I can check on what's in there
[03:37] <bddebian> StevenK: Better watch it or LaserJock might wave his lasers at you :-)
[03:37] <StevenK> And if you pipe up and say it requires a local mirror, I will hit you. :-P
[03:38] <StevenK> bddebian: "lasers" </austin powers>
[03:38] <LaserJock> StevenK: well, I don't see how madison-lite would help me much
[03:38] <LaserJock> I agree it's a cool tool
[03:38] <StevenK> LaserJock: You can see what's in proposed with wget and zgrep anyway
[03:39] <LaserJock> StevenK: that's what I wrote
[03:39] <LaserJock> wget, zgrep, create HTML, for each release
[03:39] <StevenK> Heh. I wouldn't even bother scripting it.
[03:39] <StevenK> for i in dapper edgy .... ; do wget ... ; done
[03:40] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe. I just want it daily
[03:40] <bddebian> ouch
[03:40] <StevenK> Serves you right. :-P
[03:43] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:43] <LaserJock> well, I guess I wasted a couple hours this afternoon 
[03:47] <Mez> if anyones bored - can they have a loko @ http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4094
[03:48] <persia> Mez: Do you think it works now?
[03:49] <Mez> persia: I dont know why it doesnt work for you
[03:49] <Mez> you're not meant ot be doing work
[03:50] <bddebian> Yeah I know, but I'm gonna anyhow :-)
[03:50] <Mez> persia: can you compile it with debugs syms and see if the stacktrace or similar shows anything
[03:51] <persia> Mez: It doesn't crash - it just doesn't do anything I other than look pretty, and doesn't seem to provide any explanatory output. I cannot manipulate any of the controls.
[03:52] <Mez> does it not put the lil tray icon in your notification area?
[03:52] <persia> Mez: It doesn't.
[03:52] <StevenK> "lil tray icon"
[03:52] <StevenK> Hah
[03:53] <StevenK> It sounds like a Fisher-Price toy. :-P
[03:53] <Mez> StevenK, I'm half asleep
[03:54] <Mez> persia: quick question - is your user in the plugdev group ?
[03:55] <Mez> StevenK, no then it'd have to be the "lil whirly tray icon"
[03:55] <persia> Mez: persia@frigga:~/src/scratch$ groups persia [LF]  persia : persia adm dialout cdrom floppy sudo audio dip src video plugdev lpadmin scanner data-dev pulse-rt sbuild
[03:56] <Mez> hmm
[03:56] <StevenK> frigga? What sort of machine name is that? :-P
[03:56] <bddebian> hmm
[03:56] <Mez> StevenK, persian's a pornstar really
[03:56] <StevenK> Bwaha
[03:56] <persia> StevenK: My phone is hnoss.
[03:57] <bddebian> Oh sure Mez says pornstar and doesn't get belted
[03:57] <StevenK> Poor bddebian!
[03:57] <bddebian> heh
[03:58] <Mez> persia.... I dont know...
[03:58] <Mez> try a cat /dev/input/evetX
[03:58] <Mez> (whatever the event is)
[03:58] <Mez> see if you get an error
[03:58] <bddebian> StevenK: No more reviews for you man :-)
[03:58] <Mez> and see if it does anythign when you hit keys etc
[03:59] <persia> Mez: If you purge all nostromo related things from your workstation, and install your package, does it work for you?  Also, does perhaps nostromo_control need to be run with elevated rights?
[03:59] <StevenK> bddebian: I don't recall ever needing you to review anything that I've done? :-)
[03:59] <bddebian> Gah, my old age is getting to me, I was thinking scottk.. Sheesh
[04:00] <Mez> persis: yes - I'm using my package
[04:00] <Mez> and no - it runs with user roghts (hence the udev rules)
[04:01] <ScottK> bddebian: For some reason if someone gets my name wrong it is almost always Steve that they pick. 
[04:01] <persia> Mez: Could you remind me how to determine which event device is the SpeedPad?
[04:01] <Mez> ls -l /dev/input/event*
[04:01] <Mez> it's the ones assigned to the "plugdev" group
[04:02] <bddebian> ScottK: That's funny.  People always call me Brian when my name is Barry.  What is especially quirky is that my brothers name is Brian and even people that don't know of him call me Brian at times
[04:02] <Mez> bddebian, so what you think (packaging wise)
[04:03] <Mez> bddebian, so, you're brian and so's your brother ?
[04:03] <bddebian> Mez: Had to update pbuilder quick so I'm just now checking it
[04:03] <persia> Mez: I seem to have two /dev/input/event? files that correspond to the device.  Both output entered characters and garbage for the wheel when I cat them.
[04:03] <Mez> lol
[04:04] <LaserJock> persia: do I need to replace USER in your script?
[04:04] <persia> LaserJock: No.  That should be taken from the environment when you run src-get new..  It's designed for central installation for local user caches on a multiuser system.
[04:05] <LaserJock> persia: hmm, ok. I just expected $USER
[04:06] <persia> LaserJock: That's the apt.conf skel.  USER is replaced by $USER in the new directive when the new configuration is initialised.
[04:06] <jdong> ok, a bit of a packaging policy question....
[04:06] <jdong> do the version constraints in debian/control have to refer to existing Ubuntu packages?
[04:06] <jdong> i.e. I am preparing a 20070117 snapshot of x264
[04:06] <jdong> and in the process need to patch mplayer and friends
[04:07] <jdong> the new mplayer will now only build against x264 >= 20061216 (when the API change was inflicted)
[04:07] <jdong> should build-dep request x264 >= 20061216 or 20070117?
[04:07] <jdong> given that currently a 20061216 snapshot does not exist :)
[04:08] <LaserJock> I don't think that's a problem
[04:08] <Mez> jdong they dont have to refer to an actual version number
[04:08] <Mez> that should work fine
[04:08] <jdong> Mez: ok, cool :)
[04:08] <Mez> it's just a dpkg --compare-versions
[04:08] <Mez> or whatever it is
[04:08] <jdong> Mez: I wasn't sure if we had any silly packaging policies in place :)
[04:09] <Mez> jdong: if thats the clause that means you get the right version
[04:09] <Mez> then thats the clause you should use
[04:13] <Mez> persia - so- any luck with playing with the events ?
[04:15] <persia> Mez: The event queues output entered characters according to the default map in response to cat.  The wheel forces a terminal reset.  I haven't tried anything further.
[04:15] <Mez> persia... hmm
[04:15] <Mez> persia, what ubuntu are you using ?
[04:16] <persia> Mez: Tested with today's feisty.
[04:16] <Mez> persia: I did notice that you didnt have
[04:16] <Mez> /dev/input/by-id
[04:16] <Mez> or
[04:16] <Mez> /dev/input/by-path
[04:16] <Mez> one or the other
[04:17] <persia> Mez: I have by-path
[04:17] <Mez> so theres something different in your system than mine
[04:18] <Mez> persia: grep by-id /etc/udev/rules.d/65-persistent-input.rules
[04:20] <bddebian> Ho hum, what to do ..
[04:20] <jdong> what is the most effective method of replacing a string throughout a directory recursively?
[04:20] <persia> Mez: Is the nostromo package intended to change these values?  If so, I'll need to reinstall.
[04:20] <jdong> like a massive sed job :)
[04:20] <Mez> persia:?
[04:20] <persia> bddebian: You could take a look at bug 79498.  It's lonely.
[04:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79498 in libjsw "new upstream version 1.5.6" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79498
[04:20] <Mez> jdong, I had to read that twice
[04:20] <persia> Mez: the udev persistent rules.
[04:21] <Mez> persia, no - they should be part of udev
[04:22] <persia> Mez: OK.  In that case, I have three lines.  A comment about links, a symlink for mouse* and a symlink for event*.
[04:26] <Mez> persia: can you pastebin me /proc/bus/input/devices and /proc/bus/input/handlers
[04:29] <persia> Mez: http://rafb.net/p/5ynYpl40.html
[04:31] <Mez> persia: try
[04:31] <Mez> sudo modprobe -r joydev
[04:33] <Mez> ... 
[04:37] <Mez> persia: aha!
[04:37] <Mez> install it
[04:37] <persia> Mez: building it still creates nostomo_n50.pid in the parent directory.  I think there may be an issue with make install vs. user installation.
[04:37] <Mez> persia, well - thats a tiny issue
[04:37] <Mez> persia, 
[04:37] <Mez> run the daemo
[04:37] <Mez> and then tail /var/log/messages
[04:38] <persia> Mez: nostromo_daemon reports "No configs to use, exiting.".
[04:39] <Mez> aha
[04:39] <Mez> run nostromo_config
[04:39] <Mez> then just create and save a config
[04:40] <Mez> and then try nostromo_daemon
[04:40] <Mez> persia, that might be it
[04:40] <Mez> that just means we need to make a default config and copy it on start
[04:42] <persia> Mez: It's working.  Either a default config, or a note in README.Debian about the grey screen on first starting.  Also, as the configuration is set during the first run of nostromo_config, /usr/bin/nostromo should probably trigger the daemon to reload the config after nostromo_config exits.  No bug from me.
[04:42] <Mez> persia, noostromo_config auto-reloads the config
[04:42] <Mez> but...
[04:43] <Mez> it's just a default config file to make
[04:43] <Mez> though
[04:43] <Mez> eep
[04:43] <Mez> I gotta change a copuple of things
[04:44] <Mez> and I also gotta find out whats the best way of finding if they have an n50 or an n52
[04:44] <Mez> hmm - anyone have any experience with presenting the users with options on configure ?
[04:44] <Mez> actualyl nvm
[04:44] <Mez> that dont matter
[04:47] <Mez> persia: at least we know the problem now and it's an easy one to fix
[04:48] <Mez> persia: what was the issue with the pid file
[04:49] <persia> Mez: Building the package from source generates a pidfile in the directory in which the .deb is created.  Installation does not appear to generate a pid file.  I'm guessing that the Makefile does something in install that should really be in postinst.
[04:50] <Mez> kk
[04:50] <Mez> you mean my rules?
[04:50] <Mez> or the nostrmoo Makefile
[04:51] <persia> Mez: upstream Makefile.  Your rules look OK to me.
[04:51] <Mez> persia: is it a hugs issue?
[04:52] <persia> Mez: I'd consider it larger than the lack of manpages.  Looking for details now.
[04:52] <Mez> lol
[04:53] <bddebian> w00t, got feisty on this POS Dell laptop finally
[04:55] <Mez> persia - can you email me details - I';ma gonna go have alie down
[04:56] <persia> Mez: Sure.  Sleep well.
@ubuntu.com
[04:56] <Mez> ;)
[05:02] <jdong> Can a MOTU evaluate bug 80387 and consider sponsoring to Feisty?
[05:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80387 in x264 "Import 20070116 snapshot" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80387
[05:02] <jdong> Nafallo: you promised to look ;-)
[05:04] <bddebian> jdong: That looks like waay to much work :-)
[05:13] <jdong> bddebian: but I've already done all the work :)
[05:13] <jdong> bddebian: someone just has to push the red shiny upload button for me :D
[05:13] <bddebian> Damn, network-admin segfaults when I try to configure my wireless :-(
[05:14] <jdong> bddebian: feisty oopses when loading madwifi, you shouldn't complain :)
[05:32] <bddebian> jdong: Does slomo know about these?
[05:35] <bddebian> jdong: And why not update to debhelper 5+ ?
[05:43] <persia> If both lintian and linda are quiet, is that sufficient indication that the package complies with the Standards-Version: specified in debian/control?
[05:43] <bddebian> Depends on what "version" of linda/lintian you are running, but generally yes
[05:44] <persia> bddebian: Something recent.  I also thought lintian would complain if it didn't know about the provided Standards-Version.
[05:44] <LaserJock> persia: if you are switching standards versions you can read the relevent changelog entries to see what has changed
[05:45] <bddebian> persia: It should
[05:45] <persia> LaserJock: OK.  I didn't really want to switch version numbers, but I'll investigate the changelog (for libjsw).
[05:45] <bddebian> jdong: Did you disappear? :)
[05:46] <LaserJock> persia: no, I meant the changelog for debian-policy
[05:46] <persia> LaserJock: Sorry.  Poor grammar compliance in my last statmement.  It should be, I'll investigate the debian-policy changelog in support of a possible standards-version bump for libjsw.
[05:47] <LaserJock> well, don't bump it unless you need to
[05:47] <persia> LaserJock: A bump was suggested on REVU and the package was not advocated.
[05:48] <LaserJock> this is a new package?
[05:48] <persia> LaserJock: No.  Just a new upstream due to > 1 year since last Debian upload.
[05:48] <bddebian> Nope but a leap of Debian's version
[05:48] <LaserJock> ah, ok
[05:50] <bddebian> OK damnit, iwconfig says my wireless is eth1.  But ifconfig eth1 up gives "No such file or directory" and iwlist eth1 scanning doesn't find squat :-(
[05:53] <bddebian> Ah, it's a stupid broadcom :-(
[05:59] <ScottK> I'm trying to fix a bug and the unmodified package won't build because there's a non-ascii character in the file (one of the author's names).  I remember reading something about how to deal with this, but can't find it.  Google has failed me so far.  The exact error starts: Non-ASCII character '\xf6'...  I'd appreciate it if someone could give a hint about where in the documentation I find the rule for dealing with this.
[06:04] <bddebian> ScottK: I can't help ya with that one man, sorry :-(
[06:04] <ScottK> Thanks anyway.
[06:05] <ScottK> Are you OK for reviewing packages again?
[06:05] <bddebian> Hehe, yeah.  Whatcha need?
[06:05] <Toadstool> ScottK: a python file?
[06:05] <ajmitch> bddebian is addicted to reviewing
[06:05] <bddebian> I just wish I was a little better at it :-(
[06:05] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[06:06] <Toadstool> hey bddebian 
[06:06] <ScottK> Toadstool: A python package, yes http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4106
[06:07] <Toadstool> ScottK: you have to put an encoding header in the first two lines of a python file if it is encoded in something else than ascii
[06:08] <Toadstool> if it's lets say utf-8, then you would use "# -*- encoding: utf-8 -*-"
[06:08] <ScottK> Does it go before or after the shebang?
[06:09] <ScottK> BTW, I got mixed up about which thing you were talking about (both are Python).  What I'm working on is bug #80360
[06:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80360 in python-dns "Crash - Fails to trap socket.error when network is not available" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80360
[06:10] <Toadstool> ScottK: after the shebang if there's one
[06:10] <ScottK> Thanks.
[06:13] <ScottK> Toadstool: That was exactly what I needed.  Thanks.
[06:16] <Toadstool> ScottK: you may want to include the patch available at http://bugs.debian.org/378991 too
[06:19] <ScottK> Hmmm.  I may have had the bug on a BSD system before.
[06:20] <ScottK> Do I make one debdiff, attached it to bug 80360 and mention in the comments if fixes the other one too?
[06:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80360 in python-dns "Crash - Fails to trap socket.error when network is not available" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80360
[06:24] <persia> ScottK: When I do that, I mention all the bugs it closes in the changelog.  If there are more than two Ubuntu bugs closed, I usually file a new bug ("improvements to <package>".  Debian bugs get closed for fun.
[06:24] <ScottK> Thanks.
[06:28] <persia> libjsw updated.
[06:33] <jdong> bddebian: sorry, went to sleep for a while; I tried to make my changes minimally invasive....
[06:33] <jdong> bddebian: much of it derived from the de-facto Ubuntu and debian-multimedia packaging
[06:34] <bddebian> jdong: NP.  I'll take another look tomorrow I have to get to bed :-(
[06:34] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:34] <jdong> bddebian: as you can see from the debdiffs I only made the minimum modifications necessary to ge the job done :)
[06:34] <jdong> bddebian: good night :)
[07:18] <ScottK> I just attached a fix for bug #80360 to the bug in LP (and subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors).  This is the first time I've done this and I'd appreciate it if someone who is experienced would take a look and see if I did it correctly.
[07:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80360 in python-dns "Crash - Fails to trap socket.error when network is not available" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80360
[07:22] <persia> ScottK: In your changelog, you should have (closes: 378991) and (closes Ubuntu: #80360) at the end of the lines, rather than at the beginning.  Other than that, it looks good to me.
[07:23] <ScottK> Thanks.  I'll go fix that.  What's the next step in the process after I fix it?
[07:24] <persia> ScottK: I'm not sure you need to fix it this time.  Just for the next bug.  After uploading a debdiff, I usually wait between 2 minutes and a week before someone uploads it (depending on complexity).
[07:25] <ScottK> OK, then I won't redo it.  I guess I'll wait (and finish fixing one more before bed).
[07:27] <LaserJock> anybody know if falcon has a website?
[07:35] <ScottK> Falcon the UPS manufacturer?
[07:35] <LaserJock> no
[07:35] <LaserJock> falcon the archive manager
[07:35] <ScottK> No, sorry can't help you then.  
[07:36] <LaserJock> s/archive/repo/
[07:37] <LaserJock> ok, any apache people around?
[07:38] <LaserJock> I wanted to know if I set the allow/deby for <Directory /> if that will apply to all the directories underneath it
[07:38] <persia> LaserJock: What are you trying to do?  I haven't played with apache in ~5 years, but I may know.
[07:38] <persia> LaserJock: It used to do so.
[07:39] <LaserJock> well, I just want to be able to limit what IPs can see my server
[07:40] <persia> LaserJock: Do any of the child directories under your definition have separate definitions in your congfiguration files?
[07:41] <LaserJock> hmm, what's the difference between <Directory /> and <Directory /var/www/> ?
[07:41] <LaserJock> is / really /? I was thinking it was /var/www/
[07:42] <persia> LaserJock: My memory is that / is /, but that most of it is inaccessible by default.
[07:43] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:43] <persia> LaserJock: The interesting effect being that directives applied to / also apply to user directories, whereas directives applying to /var/www don't.
[08:15] <persia> If I ask for a package to be removed, and it remains in Debian, will it be restored for 7.10?
[08:34] <LaserJock> persia: no
[08:34] <LaserJock> not automatically
[08:36] <persia> LaserJock: I'm considering requesting a drop of freecraft.  It has been replaced by stratagus, but has been maintained by NMU in Debian for the past couple years.  What do you think.
[08:47] <LaserJock> persia: well, if there is a reason to get rid of it otherwise
[08:48] <LaserJock> like if it conflicts with stratagus in a way that makes it hard to maintain stratagus
[08:48] <LaserJock> but otherwise I don't think it really hurts as long as Debian still has it
[08:49] <persia> LaserJock: The only reason I would use is the cease-and-desist Blizzard sent to the original developers about the name.
[08:49] <persia> Also, people who want to play something like WarCraft or StarCraft might choose the older engine because of the name.
[08:50] <LaserJock> oh, well that a cease-and-desist sound a bit serious :-)
[08:51] <persia> LaserJock: Usually Debian Legal seems on top of these things, but I'm not sure if this is a special case.
[08:51] <dholbach> good morning everybody
[08:51] <persia> good morning dholbach
[08:52] <dholbach> hiya persia
[08:54] <persia> LaserJock: I can't find a copy online, but http://happypenguin.org/newsitem?id=3801 mentions it.  I'll file a bug.  Thanks for your input.
[08:58] <LaserJock> hi dholbach 
[08:59] <dholbach> hey LaserJock
[09:10] <persia> Why does apropos screenshot tell me nothing?  What package am I missing?
[09:55] <persia> I just encountered a comment on bug 60305 that the Desktop menu is not supposed to list everything like the Debian menu.  Does anyone know of a resource containing the guidelines as to what should be shown and what not?
[09:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60305 in xpenguins "shows only on debian menu, not games menu" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/60305
[12:02] <incorrect> can anyone tell me how to download falcon?
[12:05] <Adri2000> persia: your debdiff for brutalchess is not a merge, a merge is when there are changes in ubuntu. If debian version > ubuntu version (but with no change), you just apply your changes to the debian version and generate a .changes file with -v<current_version_in_ubuntu> (although it's important only if you actually do the upload, otherwise your sponsor will do it when generating the .changes file signed with his gpg key)
[12:05] <persia> Adri2000: crimsun told me to process that as a merge.  Othewise, I agree.
[12:06] <persia> Adri2000: My Sponsor?  Do you mean whoever uploads the patch?
[12:06] <Adri2000> yes
[12:44] <Nafallo> !info gnome-build
[12:44] <ubotu> Package gnome-build does not exist in any distro I know
[12:53] <incorrect> i've registered with launchpad.net and i still can't figure out how to download falcon,  sigh
[01:25] <jenda> Hello.
[01:25] <jenda> Anyone here moderating the ubuntu-devel list?
[01:27] <cypherbios> incorrect: ask Seveas about falcon
[01:30] <incorrect> seveas is a person?
[01:31] <jenda> yep
[01:32] <Seveas> nope
[01:37] <incorrect> sorry i r blindeded
[01:37] <incorrect> so how do i get this falcon system of yours?
[02:02] <imbrandon> incorrect, http://seveas.imbrandon.com/dists/edgy-seveas/extras/
[02:02] <imbrandon> second package on that page
[02:03] <incorrect> why thank you
[02:03] <imbrandon> np
[02:04] <incorrect> ill have to repackage for dapper
[02:04] <imbrandon> http://seveas.imbrandon.com/dists/dapper-seveas/extras/
[02:04] <imbrandon> incorrect, ^^
[02:04] <incorrect> i wonder for how long its going to be easy to backport to..
[02:04] <incorrect> :D
[02:05] <incorrect> well isn't he the coolest
[02:06] <incorrect> perfect :) i can make distributing my backports to my machines sooo much easier
[03:22] <zul> whats on the agenda for the motu-meeting?
[03:36] <gnomefreak> zul: from what i can see there isnt one. the meetings page is empty
[03:38] <Nafallo> dooh
[03:38] <Nafallo> I forgot LDAP :-(
[03:50] <segfault> hallo
[03:53] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:53] <persia> bddebian: hi
[03:53] <Nafallo> hi bddebian 
[03:54] <bddebian> Hi persia, Nafallo
[04:21] <white> bad irssi :(
[04:32] <danilo_> Hi Every One!!! Someone can tell me how is the mantainer of Anjuta?
[04:33] <Nafallo> danilo_: we don't have maintainers in Ubuntu :-)
[04:34] <Nafallo> danilo_: looks like a direct sync from Debian
[04:34] <danilo_> But who decides what package will be in edgy?
[04:34] <danilo_> All the packages??
[04:36] <Nafallo> ehm. I don't quite follow. if a package is in the archive at releasetime it will be included in the actual release.
[04:38] <danilo_> And if a package had a important update? Packages will be updated?
[04:39] <danilo_> I'm saying about anjuta... Ubuntu edgy have anjuta2.0.2 package, but is not ready for production because is a alpha version. Now (14st) we have a new 2.1 (beta)....
[04:39] <Nafallo> we have edgy-{proposed,update} for grave bugs
[04:40] <Nafallo> new releases probably won't go in if they are not plain bugfix releases. but that's up to folks like sistpoty to ack or nack :-)
[04:45] <Jozo-> danilo_: And in feisty anjuta is downgraded to 1.x version.
[04:45] <gnomefreak> yeah :(
[04:46] <danilo_> Jozo-, Its a good new... =)
[04:46] <danilo_> Jozo-, But I think that anjuta 2.1 is Ok... But I dont know, I dont had tested yet.
[05:02] <slomo> anjuta 2.1 is explicitely a development version
[05:38] <zul> xenman kind of sucks
[05:42] <jdong> hello, world
[05:44] <Laser_away> zul: ?
[05:48] <bddebian> Heya jdong
[05:48] <jdong> hi, bddebian :)
[05:48] <jdong> good morning :)
[05:50] <zul> Laser_away: program i dont know how to use yet
[06:01] <somerville32> dholbach, You program in LPC too! :)
[06:01] <dholbach> somerville32: how do you know?
[06:01] <somerville32> Your wiki page
[06:02] <dholbach> ah :-)
[06:02] <dholbach> somerville32: you're playing in a mud too?
[06:02] <somerville32> Well, I've played a few muds but I do mostly development.
[06:02] <somerville32> I was working on my own mudlib from scratch before devoted my life to Ubuntu, lol
[06:03] <dholbach> somerville32: which muds were those?
[06:04] <somerville32> Turning Point Mud, SWMud, Imperial Expansion, RotM, and few other ones
[06:05] <dholbach> somerville32: ahhhh, so you know elkbuntu from RoM?
[06:06] <somerville32> elkbuntu played on RotM? I didn't know that, lol
[06:06] <dholbach> you mean Realm of Magic?
[06:06] <somerville32> No, Realm of the Magi
[06:06] <dholbach> ah ok
[06:06] <dholbach> then that's something else
[06:06] <somerville32> ah
[06:07] <jdong> grr, is there any simple way to launch an application without network access?
[06:07] <jdong> without disabling network for the rest of the system
[06:08] <jdong> I have a leaky app that I'd like not to talk to a network
[06:08] <somerville32> I'd say my favourite mud of all time was Turning Point Mud. It was role play intensive and a ton of fun. I was a druid a part of a cult religion that believe that industrialized cities were killing the forests. So we'd go pillage villages - one time we even destroyed an entire village. Lots of drama... good time, good times.
[06:31] <gpocentek> welcome here devilsadvocate ;)
[06:32] <devilsadvocate> hello gpocentek 
[06:32] <devilsadvocate> i've been trying to make a .deb of something. It refuses to accept my changelog file. Nothing i found online helped
[06:32] <gpocentek> what is the exact error?
[06:33] <devilsadvocate> paste here?
[06:33] <devilsadvocate> its 2 lines
[06:34] <gpocentek> ok
[06:34] <devilsadvocate> parsechangelog/debian: error: unrecognised line, at file debian/changelog line 3
[06:34] <devilsadvocate> dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is
[06:35] <gpocentek> devilsadvocate: now could you pastebin the changelog?
[06:35] <devilsadvocate> one sec
[06:38] <devilsadvocate> gpocentek, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/2066/
[06:40] <Mez> devilsadvocate, space before -- :P
[06:40] <gpocentek> devilsadvocate: you need 2 spaces before the '*', and 1 before the '--'
[06:40] <Mez> double space before *
[06:40] <Mez> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/2067/
[06:40] <devilsadvocate> will try now
[06:41] <devilsadvocate> ok.. now its changed to a badly formatted trailer line (line 5)
[06:42] <gpocentek> you need 2 spaces between "Thu," and "18" in this line
[06:42] <devilsadvocate> no comma?
[06:42] <gpocentek> keep the coma
[06:42] <gpocentek> comma*
[06:43] <devilsadvocate> no good
[06:43] <gpocentek> hm, what's the error?
[06:44] <gpocentek> still the same?
[06:44] <devilsadvocate> parsechangelog/debian: error: badly formatted trailer line, at file debian/changelog line 5
[06:44] <devilsadvocate> yes, the same
[06:44] <gpocentek> it try with this line:
[06:45] <gpocentek>  -- Chintalagiri Shashank <chintal@iitk.ac.in> Thu,  18 Jan 2007 21:52:02 +0530
[06:45] <gpocentek> don't drop the space at the beginning of the line
[06:46] <devilsadvocate> the error changed now
[06:46] <devilsadvocate> found eof where expected more change data or trailer at .. 
[06:46] <devilsadvocate> maybe i missed the newline character
[06:46] <gpocentek> I think so
[06:47] <devilsadvocate> no. this time it gave the error on line 6 instead of 5
[06:47] <devilsadvocate> but otherwise the same
[06:49] <devilsadvocate> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/2069/ - the new changelog as well as the error
[06:49] <gpocentek> let's try a 'dch -e'
[06:49] <gpocentek> it might fix it
[06:50] <gpocentek> ah, only *1* space at the beginning of the 5th line
[06:50] <devilsadvocate> just typing dch -e in the source folder gives the same error
[06:50] <gpocentek> you have 2 spaces
[06:50] <devilsadvocate> ok
[06:50] <devilsadvocate> changed back to one
[06:50] <devilsadvocate> error is identical as before
[06:51] <devilsadvocate> badly formatted trailer line :|
[06:51] <Mez> devilsadvocate, delete the changelog then try dch -e
[06:52] <devilsadvocate> dch -e --create ?
[06:53] <devilsadvocate> ok it worked
[06:53] <devilsadvocate> any idea what was wrong?
[06:53] <gpocentek> Mez: congrats ;)
[06:54] <gpocentek> devilsadvocate: no idea
[06:54] <devilsadvocate> gpocentek, thanks :)
[06:59] <Mez> gpocentek, congrats on what ?
[07:00] <gpocentek> Mez: you found a solution
[07:00] <Mez> devilsadvocate, did yhou try and create it yourself or something /
[07:00] <Mez> gpocentek, if all eslse faisl delete and use the proper tools to make
[07:01] <devilsadvocate> Mez, no i did not, but i must have accidentaly removed one of the many essential spaces :P
[07:02] <devilsadvocate> where are the tags used for the ./configure stored? for some reason its trying with host=i486-linux-gnu
[07:03] <devilsadvocate> (i have i386)
[07:11] <Mez> devilsadvocate, o_O thats surely old... i386's havent been seen in about 2 years
[07:12] <devilsadvocate> Mez, my laptop is a P3 800 mhz thing
[07:12] <Mez> thats still i486 :P
[07:12] <devilsadvocate> i suppose it can run i686, but i didnt bother changing
[07:12] <Mez> or even 686 :P
[07:12] <slomo> even i686
[07:12] <devilsadvocate> hm
[07:12] <slomo> but every package is compiled for i486
[07:12] <devilsadvocate> then why does ubuntu  ship with i386?
[07:13] <devilsadvocate> hmm
[07:13] <devilsadvocate> ok
[07:13] <devilsadvocate> i know this migh tbe the wrong place, but what do i do if it says
[07:13] <devilsadvocate> invalid host type ?
[07:13] <slomo> broken configure script
[07:15] <devilsadvocate> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/2070/
[07:15] <devilsadvocate> i was able to configure and make the same package normally earlier
[07:19] <devilsadvocate> ./configure && make work perfectly even now :(
[07:25] <Toadstool> heya here
[07:26] <bddebian> Hi Toadstool
[07:26] <Toadstool> hey bddebian 
[07:26] <bddebian> slomo: Have you seen / heard about jdong's ffmpeg stuff?
[07:27] <slomo> bddebian: no... wha did he do?
[07:28] <bddebian> ANd update to x264 from SVN that has better thread support I guess
[07:29] <slomo> what did he do to ffmpeg? :)
[07:29] <slomo> x264 is probably fine
[07:31] <bddebian> Damn, now I can't find the bug#
[07:31] <crimsun> slomo: bug 80387
[07:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80387 in x264 "Import 20070116 snapshot" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80387
[07:32] <bddebian> That's it
[07:32] <bddebian> thx crimsun
[07:32] <crimsun> note that jbailey mentioned some hours ago a possible ffmpeg snap update
[07:32] <crimsun> (rather, he was wondering if it were feasible)
[07:32] <slomo> yeah, i told him that it might become a nightmare
[07:33] <crimsun> s/might// , but yeah :)
[07:33] <crimsun> api? abi? wots dat?
[07:37] <jdong> slomo: well, I've been messing around with it for about a month now; ffmpeg of course is unaffected
[07:37] <jdong> (since in Ubuntu it doesn't build against x264)
[07:37] <jdong> but either way I patched ffmpeg so IF someone wanted to build it against x264, it'd function
[07:37] <jdong> slomo: btw, mplayer doesn't build against feisty's caca anymore
[07:38] <slomo> yeah, one has to include headers for a compat api
[07:38] <slomo> should be easy to fix
[07:39] <jdong> crimsun: I've messed around with a ffmpeg cvs build... it works, if you don't call ffmpeg to do any encoding
[07:39] <jdong> crimsun: the whole encoder API/ABI has changed somewhat
[07:39] <crimsun> "somewhat"...yeah.
[07:39] <slomo> :)
[07:39] <jdong> :)
[07:40] <slomo> i'll just won't touch that insanity anymore unless necessary ;)
[07:40] <jdong> slomo: so.. do you think the new x264 looks ok?
[07:42] <Mez> bddebian, I'm not very good at building man pages
[07:42] <slomo> jdong: from a short look... yes. i don't have time for a deeper review and uploading now though :/
[07:43] <jdong> ok
[07:43] <bddebian> Mez: Who is? :)  help2man
[07:43] <nixternal> Mez: man pages are easy :)
[07:43] <slomo> bddebian: so if you want to upload... :)
[07:43] <Mez> it doesnt have a help either
[07:43] <bddebian> slomo: OK I'll take a look in a bit
[07:44] <nixternal> Mez: docbook2x-man
[07:44] <nixternal> is this for katapult?
[07:44] <Mez> nixternal, I'm no good at docbook either
[07:44] <Mez> nixternal, no 
[07:44] <Mez> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4094
[07:44] <nixternal> Mez: i can help you out with it, or convert what you have to docbook
[07:45] <Mez> nixternal, katapult has a man page
[07:45] <nixternal> good :)
[07:45] <nixternal> also has one hell of a handbook as well :)
[07:45] <Mez> oh, actuallym no it doesnt
[07:45] <nixternal> nostromo, is that for the gaming controlers?
[07:45] <Mez> nixternal, if it installed the hand book properly
[07:45] <Mez> nixternal yeah it is
[07:45] <nixternal> Mez: it will have a man page then if there isn't one yet
[07:46] <nixternal> i sold that thing on ebay years ago :)
[07:46] <Mez> nixternal: they're awesome thoguh
[07:46] <nixternal> Mez: i will find out from Phil Rodriguez how to get the handbook to build when using cmake
[07:46] <nixternal> i could never get used to it
[07:47] <Mez> I shuld go buy some food at some point
[07:47] <nixternal> ya same here. im at school starving right now
[07:48] <nixternal> i would goto a restaurant, but parking is nuts right about now
[07:48] <nixternal> took me 30 minutes to get my spot
[07:48] <Mez> I need someone to go out with
[07:49] <Mez> bddebian, in birmingham ? :P
[07:50] <bddebian> Nah, I'm in Philly
[07:50] <somerville32> Fly me and I'll go
[07:50] <Mez> too far away :P
[07:50] <Mez> bddebian, oxford is closer to go poke the emo horse (resiak)
[07:50] <nixternal> hahahahahahahahahahaha
[07:51] <Mez> though poking the emo horse sounds wrong
[07:51] <nixternal> bddebian: little did Mez not let you know, is you have to do more than first base on the first date :)
[07:51] <nixternal> Mez: poking the emo horse sounds better than bddebian wanting to go on a date with ya :)
[07:51] <nixternal> that would be the emo ponie
[07:51] <bddebian> hmm
[07:51] <nixternal> pony as well
[07:51] <Mez> nixternal, true :P shame that it's not last thrusday
[07:52] <nixternal> bddebian: i didn't know you were in icky philly
[07:52] <Mez> i coulda gone to the local LUG meeting
[07:52] <Mez> and annoyed Keybuk
[07:52] <bddebian> nixternal: I don't live in Philly, I just work here :-(
[07:52] <Mez> ooh
[07:52] <Mez> whens the next wolvesLUG meeting
[07:52] <nixternal> heh
[07:52] <nixternal> bddebian: even being close enough to work in philly is bad enough
[07:52] <Mez> well it aint today - jono's at LCA :P
[07:53] <nixternal> i almost moved to York to be a cop at one point, but someone decided to offer me a computer job out of the military paying more than a cop could ever steal :)
[07:53] <Mez> hmm
[07:53] <nixternal> Mez: i have been trying to teach myself, and little by little...ahh who am i kidding, i still suck!
[07:54] <Mez> i just need to do a 
[07:54] <Mez> if this file exists - run this - if not - check whether this or this is plugged in and copy the config file to the home directory
[07:54] <Mez> THEN run that
[07:54] <nixternal> i need to do the same that when i boot up my computer and it sees i have an external mouse connected, to then run 'synclient TouchpadOff=1'
[07:55] <Mez> lol
[07:55] <Mez> nixternal, this is for the nice shiny nostromo driver
[07:56] <somerville32> Bash scripting is easy
[07:56] <somerville32> :] 
[07:56] <Mez> somerville32, wanna write a script for me then ? :P
[07:56] <somerville32> lol
[07:56] <somerville32> Send me the details
[07:56] <somerville32> and sure
[07:56] <Mez> email ?#
[07:57] <somerville32> cody-somerville@ubuntu.com
[07:58] <nixternal> somerville32: while you are at it, either 1) write a script to shut off synaptics w/ external mouse present, or 2) just make it work in *buntu :)
[07:58] <somerville32> lol
[07:59] <nixternal> im not laughing :)
[07:59] <somerville32> I imagine that would be possible with dbus and hal
[07:59] <nixternal> ok, maybe i am a little bit
[07:59] <nixternal> well, neither one of them are on IRC :)
[07:59] <nixternal> hahahaha
[07:59] <nixternal> in other words, if I knew how to talk to them correctly, then I would do it
[08:00] <somerville32> send me an e-mail and I'll look into it
[08:00] <nixternal> that's it! i have to do a silly c++ project for school, i will get that to work :)
[08:00] <somerville32> : )
[08:00] <nixternal> ok, off to my next class
[08:01] <Mez> somerville32, sent
[08:02] <somerville32> Ok, it is added to my queue : )
[08:03] <Mez> nixternal nixternal ....
[08:03] <Mez> er
[08:03] <Mez> cat /proc/bus/input/devices | grep mouse | grep Handlers | wc -l
[08:03] <Mez> ;)
[08:03] <Mez> should tell you how many mice you have connected
[08:04] <somerville32> 1
[08:04] <Mez> so if >1 then turn off synaptics ;)
[08:04] <somerville32> Mez: So you want him to create a script that sits in a loop checking or what?
[08:05] <Mez> somerville32, he just wanted on boot right ?
 i need to do the same that when i boot up my computer and it sees i have an external mouse connected, to then run 'synclient TouchpadOff=1'
[08:05] <somerville32> "1) write a script to shut off synaptics w/ external mouse present"
[08:05] <somerville32> The latter, I'm sure, would be optimal.
[08:06] <Mez> somerville32, yeah i was thinking poke hal or maybe even upstart
[08:06] <somerville32> So, hal will notify his script via dbus when a mouse is plugged in or removed and enable synaptics accordingly.
[08:18] <Mez> somerville32, indeed
[08:18] <Mez> but that needs a script first
[08:18] <somerville32> And thats where I come in ;] 
[08:18] <Mez> somerville32, well my oone's a lot easier :P
[08:19] <somerville32> Yes but less versatile
[08:19] <Mez> lol
[08:19] <Mez> it's just something i need to make for this fdriver
[08:20] <somerville32> I think the goal was to make the process seamless 
[08:21] <Mez> we on about ym script of nixternal's ?
[08:23] <somerville32> I haven't reviewed your e-mail yet
[09:22] <ajmitch> hi
[09:23] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[09:24] <jesper> Is universe freezed after a release.. or is it possible to get fixes into edgy -universe now? 
[09:25] <Nafallo> jesper: frozen
[09:26] <jesper> So no fixes for "broken stuff". 
[09:26] <jesper> $ pymol
[09:26] <jesper> /usr/bin/pymol: 8: python2.4.4: not found
[09:26] <jesper> :-/
[09:28] <LaserJock> jesper: it's possible to get things updated
[09:28] <Nafallo> !info clutter
[09:28] <ubotu> Package clutter does not exist in any distro I know
[09:29] <LaserJock> jesper: but it's not trivial by any means
[09:29] <LaserJock> jesper: have you checked pymol bugs? I think I saw somebody already requesting a fix for that
[09:30] <jesper> Yes.. it has been reportet.. but not fixed in edgy/universe. 
[09:30] <LaserJock> jesper: there is now SRU comments, or bugs?
[09:30] <LaserJock> *no
[09:30] <jesper> SRU ? 
[09:31] <Adri2000> Stable Release Update
[09:32] <ajmitch> LaserJock: don't confuse people with TLAs
[09:33] <Adri2000> eheh
[09:34] <jdong> SRU? TLA? WTF? g2g gg gl hf nr20 tvb go!
[09:35] <jesper> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pymol/+bug/65964
[09:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65964 in pymol "Pymol does not start because of wrong python interpreter name in start script" [Undecided,Fix released]  
[09:35] <jdong> good to see you too, ajmitch  :(
[09:35] <jdong> ;-)
[09:35] <jesper> I don't know what more to do.. 
[09:36] <jdong> btw where's the SRU for Azureus?
[09:36] <jdong> ;-)
[09:37] <ajmitch> why haven't you done one?
[09:37] <jdong> ajmitch, I did prepare the initial packaging; fujitsu made an upload into feisty for it
[09:37] <jdong> and nothing has happened in Edgy yet
[09:37] <ajmitch> then why complain? :)
[09:37] <jdong> because nothing has happened in Edgy yet
[09:39] <jdong> bug 42269
[09:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42269 in azureus "[SRU]  Does not create a tray icon" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/42269
[09:39] <jdong> that's the one
[09:39] <jdong> a debdiff for SRU is posted, crimsun +1'ed it... so what comes next?
[09:40] <ScottK> I have a question about the Python transition ...  I have two Feisty chroots, both with Python2.5.  One the first usr/bin/python is dated Jan 16 and my package builds fine.  I made a new one this morning after a MOTU reported my package FTBFSed for him and now I have the same error in my new chroot.  Package still builds fine in the old chroot.  The package is here - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4106 and the err
[09:40] <ajmitch> jdong: it needs more people to approve it
[09:41] <ScottK> cd . && python setup.py install --root=/tmp/buildd/pyspf-2.0.3/debian/python-spf/ --no-compile -O0
[09:41] <ScottK> running install
[09:41] <ScottK> error: invalid Python installation: unable to open /usr/include/python2.5/pyconfig.h (No such file or directory)
[09:41] <ScottK> make: *** [python-install-py]  Error 1 
[09:41] <ScottK> Oops - sorry about the high speed paste.
[09:41] <ajmitch> ScottK: python-all-dev or similar
[09:41] <ScottK> Thanks.  Will try that.
[09:41] <jdong> ajmitch, what can be done to make that happen? It seems like leaving it alone, it's faster to wait for Feisty :)
[09:42] <ajmitch> there should be a page on the debian wiki about the new python policy, it should give info about build depends
[09:42] <ajmitch> jdong: be patient
[09:43] <allee> !sync
[09:43] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[09:43] <ScottK> ajmitch: There is some info on one of the pages, I think it may need updating though.  Once I figure this out, I will try to update it.
[09:46] <LaserJock> hmm, this person on -motu wanting MMS packaged
[09:47] <ajmitch> LaserJock: did you decide on wiki vs bugs for candidates?
[09:47] <LaserJock> he's also got debian-mentors working on a Debian package
[09:47] <LaserJock> ajmitch: we're going to do bugs, but it's going to take a little bit. I need an LP bug fixed first
[09:48] <LaserJock> ajmitch: because we're going to use a tag to do it
[10:02] <ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.  That worked.  I added some words in the Python packages section here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Tips.  I'm sure it could be more elegent and more correct, but it's a start...
[10:16] <tsmithe> LaserJock, are you free to revu?
[10:17] <LaserJock> tsmithe: what package?
[10:17] <tsmithe> alsa-firmware/alsa-tools pleases
[10:17] <tsmithe> :)
[10:17] <slomo> LaserJock: MMS?
[10:17] <LaserJock> slomo: that thread on -motu
[10:18] <crimsun> slomo: (RE: uploads) it's bug 44147 if you'd like to sub
[10:18] <tsmithe> the lintian errors on alsa-firmware about the linking of some firmware are due to the firmwarey nature of the package
[10:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44147 in soyuz "GPG public key verification failure resulting in UploadError" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/44147
[10:19] <slomo> crimsun: thanks
[10:19] <LaserJock> slomo: My Media System I guess
[10:20] <LaserJock> tsmithe: I don't think I have time for them anytime today, sorry.
[10:20] <tsmithe> ok that's cool
[10:20] <tsmithe> anyone else?
[11:21] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
[11:22] <tsmithe> Hobbsee, free to do reviewage? :P
[11:22] <tsmithe> ajmitch, ?
[11:22] <LaserJock> Hobbsee!! waht are you doing up?
[11:22] <ajmitch> no
[11:22] <tsmithe> ok
[11:22] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, LaserJock, and tsmithe :)
[11:22] <tsmithe> hi Hobbsee
[11:22] <tsmithe> how's it going?
[11:22] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: work soon.  and steve had to go to work (and that's where i went last night)
[11:22] <Hobbsee> good.  went to LCA open day and the dinner after :)
[11:23] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: i'll be right...
[11:23] <tsmithe> Hobbsee, right...?
[11:24] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: in not doing revuage :P
[11:24] <tsmithe> :)
[11:43] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: LaserJock tsmithe didnt see jono doing the bottle dance though...
[11:43] <tsmithe> i don't believe i did
[11:44] <tsmithe> thought i sure heard of it
[11:45] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I missed it :(
[11:46] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: :(
[11:46] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: yes.  saw pictures of the last bottle dance - but he wasnt bottle dancing last night
[11:46] <LaserJock> I was probably in bed being responsible at the time
[11:46] <Hobbsee> probably as his beer was in a glass...
[11:46] <tsmithe> what happened last night?
[11:46] <LaserJock> no late-night carousing for this chemist ;-)
[11:47] <LaserJock> hmm, do they call chemists chemists in AU, Hobbsee?
[12:00] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: or pharmacist, maybe.  chemist as in chem student?  that's more just a scientist
[12:00] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: ubuntu dinner after LCA open day
[12:01] <Mez> hub, can I have rob's donuts ?
[12:01] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: but a scientist could be anything ... a biologist even ;-)
[12:01] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: horrible
[12:01] <hub> Mez: no they are for me :-)
[12:01] <Mez> hub :(
[12:01] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: true
[12:01] <hub> Mez: I unbroke the build
[12:02] <Mez> hub but still... :( donuts :P
[12:02] <hub> mmm beer :-)
[12:03] <tsmithe> Hobbsee, aahh
[12:12] <crimsun> don't crack on biologists ;)