[01:16] <mdke> mpt: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/
[01:17] <mdke> mpt: pretty rough stuff, especially the MAC, but maybe helpful
[01:21] <mpt> mdke, neat
[01:22] <mpt> Did the people who wrote the Switching From Windows guide know about this? :-] 
[01:22] <mpt> ugh, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromWindows#head-328622217d9484960c5c758f3387cbdd61dabc2b is bad though
[01:23] <mdke> mpt: same author, broadly, I think
[01:25] <mdke> mpt: he's doing some exams at the moment and hopefully will get increasingly involved after they finish
[01:26] <mpt> Does he have a name? :-)
[01:26] <tonyyarusso> Better not be another Matthew :P
[01:27] <mdke> mpt: Phil Bull
[01:32] <mpt> ah, ok
[04:59] <coreyt> Can we get a "Todo" Wiki for the documentation team :)
[05:00] <coreyt> Hell a bug system would be great as well :)
[05:00] <coreyt> Then it could be prioritized and people can assign themselves problems to be fixed.
[05:06] <somerville32> Just file a bug
[06:21] <LaserJock> coreyt: we have a todo list and you can a file bugs against the ubuntu-doc product
[09:42] <mdke> coreyt: both of those exist already
[09:42] <mdke> ah, LaserJock mentioned that
[09:43] <LaserJock> ;-)
[10:42] <jenda> mdke: ping
[10:42] <mdke> jenda: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
[10:42] <jenda> meh :)
[10:43] <jenda> mdke: The Czech LoCo might be overdubbing them screencasts, but needs a place to put them.
[10:43] <jenda> mdke: any chance they could be hosted on a docteam server?
[11:22] <popey> we could put them in the same place I guess
[11:38] <willvdl> how often is doc.u.c built?
[07:27] <mdke> jenda: we might be able to think of a solution involving the screencast site
[08:50] <popey> we could have a naming convention which invoved using the two letter country codes for the langauge of the text and the langauge of the voice over
[08:50] <popey> because in this case they will be different
[09:18] <mdke> popey: you mean accept english videos with localised voice-overs only?
[09:18] <mdke> sounds good. I think we could just use the language code of the voice over for that. Then if someone localised the video too, it can replace it
[09:29] <LaserJock> mdke: oh my gosh, one of my LP bugs just got set to "Fix Committed" :-)
[09:31] <mdke> LaserJock: I had three today :) fix-it-friday
[09:33] <LaserJock> mdke: and it only took 9 months :-)
[09:35] <LaserJock> maybe I should go poke #launchpad for another one
[09:35] <LaserJock> or maybe that's just being greedy
[09:36] <mdke> i whinged a bit last night and the result was that salgado fixed 3 of my bugs today
[09:37] <LaserJock> wow, nice
[09:37] <mdke> if you have any easy bugs, get them to do them for a fix it friday
[09:53] <paulproteus|jhu> popey, BTW, it would be interesting to record keystrokes and mouse presses in a script so that way an English Ubuntu user could make a screencast and the Hungarian guy could just replay the keystroke recording and make a fresh screencast.
[10:45] <jenda> mdke: sounds great :)
[10:47] <mdke> jenda: for future things though, Canonical provides hosting for locoteams
[10:48] <jenda> great.
[10:48] <jenda> mdke: our locoteam is in the process of migrating.
[10:48] <jenda> (to Canonical hosting)
[10:48] <mdke> ah
[11:21] <mdke> that's the stuff
[11:23] <LaserJock> where's mdke and why has dholbach taken over his nick
[11:23] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:23] <mdke> we're bringings hugs to #ubuntu-doc
[11:24] <LaserJock> shesh
[11:24] <LaserJock> my wife wonders about all you sometimes, "Why are they all huggy on there?" she asks
[11:24] <mdke> she follows?
[11:25] <LaserJock> mdke: sometimes when I'm in bed she reads it
[11:25] <mdke> cheeky
[11:26] <Burgwork> jenda: how does one request hosting from Canonical?
[11:26] <Burgwork> I keep meaning to move Canada's to there
[11:26] <mdke> Burgwork: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoHosting
[11:27] <jenda> thanks mdke, now I don't have to admit I didn't know :)
[11:27] <Burgwork> mdke: thanks
[11:27] <mdke> the wiki knows all
[11:28] <LaserJock> yeah, scary
[11:29] <LaserJock> mdke: hmm, here's a translation question for you. Say I want some file translated, is there an easy way to put it up on Rosetta and just have people translate it for me?
[11:30] <mdke> LaserJock: do you have it in po format?
[11:30] <LaserJock> I can
[11:30] <mdke> *pot
[11:30] <mdke> you can upload the pot template to a product or distro source package
[11:30] <LaserJock> and then it's just a matter of getting translators aware or willing to do it?
[11:31] <mdke> yes
[11:31] <mdke> you can leave the permissions open, or assign translation groups to it (such as Ubuntu translators)
[11:31] <LaserJock> I'm going to have a set of .desktop and .directory files for Edubuntu
[11:31] <LaserJock> for dynamic menus
[11:32] <LaserJock> and the only negative thing is that they currently aren't translated
[11:32] <mdke> right
[11:32] <mdke> you could see how ubuntu/kubuntu do it
[11:33] <LaserJock> mdke: have you done a bzr branch of the sandbox branch of the repo?
[11:34] <LaserJock> I've noticed that since 0.13 bzr has gotten a lot faster
[11:34] <mdke> LaserJock: no. I was thinking that it would be a good weekend to learn how to use bzr
[11:34] <LaserJock> but I've been branching like forever
[11:34] <mdke> what does bzr branch do?
[11:35] <LaserJock> that creates a local branch
[11:35] <LaserJock> it's sort of like a co for svn
[11:35] <LaserJock> but it grabs the entire history
[11:35] <LaserJock> something must be wrong, I just stopped it at 52min.
[11:36] <mdke> there is no co?
[11:36] <LaserJock> there is
[11:36] <mdke> bloody hell, 52minutes?
[11:36] <LaserJock> yeah, something must be wrong
[11:36] <LaserJock> you can do bzr co
[11:36] <LaserJock> and it'll act like svn and just grab the last revision
[11:37] <mdke> and you can use it normally?
[11:38] <LaserJock> yeah, the made basically a svn emulation mode
[11:38] <LaserJock> *they
[11:38] <mdke> ok
[11:39] <mdke> and is our sandbox thing working as a centralised repository?
[11:39] <LaserJock> but it really shouldn't take 52min to branch :/
[11:39] <mdke> well, it's a big repo
[11:39] <mdke> or maybe the whole repo isn't in the sandbox, dunno
[11:39] <LaserJock> well, anybody in the ubuntu-doc team can push to it
[11:39] <LaserJock> there are 3 branches on LP
[11:39] <mdke> and push is like svn commit?
[11:39] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:40] <LaserJock> see you when you do bzr commit, it's local
[11:40] <LaserJock> so you can be working along locally
[11:40] <LaserJock> commiting as you go
[11:40] <LaserJock> so you don't lose track, etc.
[11:40] <mdke> but why do you need to commit locally if you're working locally already? how does that work
[11:40] <LaserJock> and can revert things
[11:41] <LaserJock> well, think of it this way, when we svn co, we can't do any version control without commiting to the repo, right?
[11:41] <mdke> well you can revert local changes
[11:41] <LaserJock> for instance, with the packaging guide, I sometimes lose what I'm doing because I'll be writing something over a period of days
[11:42] <LaserJock> well, in this case you wouldn't have to revert all the way back
[11:42] <LaserJock> because you're commiting locally
[11:43] <LaserJock> then, when you're ready to put things to the LP repo you can bzr publish
[11:43] <LaserJock> and that actually pushes all your local commits to the repo
[11:43] <mdke> ok
[11:43] <mdke> what's the difference between publish and push?
[11:44] <LaserJock> umm, I think I just used it wrong
[11:44] <LaserJock> I think to publish your branch you use bzr push ;-)
[11:44] <mdke> ok
[11:44] <LaserJock> anyway, you don't *have* to do it this way
[11:45] <LaserJock> you can do it the svn way too
[11:46] <LaserJock> mdke: http://bazaar-vcs.org/Workflows is kinda helpful
[11:46] <mdke> I'm going to spend some time reading up
[11:47] <LaserJock> they seem to have really increased the speed lately, be sure to have at least 0.13
[11:48] <mdke> what's in feisty?
[11:48] <mdke> 0.14:)
[11:48] <LaserJock> 0.13
[11:48] <LaserJock> oh, maybe I haven't updated
[11:48] <mdke> 0.14~rc1-0ubuntu1
[11:48] <LaserJock> I actually added the bzr repo to my sources.list
[11:48] <LaserJock> so I can get the latest on edgy
[11:49] <LaserJock> I figure they should know how to make a decent .deb ;-)
[11:50] <mdke> presumably
[11:52] <LaserJock> they really have made it quite flexable as far as workflow
[11:52] <mdke> it would be nice to move if it works well.
[11:52] <mdke> If you can checkout and work normally without getting the revision history, that will dispose of speed worries, won't it?
[11:53] <mdke> is this what I should get? https://launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/+branch/ubuntu-doc/trunk
[11:54] <LaserJock> that seems to be the most updated one
[11:54] <LaserJock> that automatically grabs from our svn
[11:55] <mdke> I really don't understand the Fetch Phase 1/4 stuff
[11:55] <mdke> crazy
[11:57] <LaserJock> mdke: I think bzr checkout --lightweight is what you'd want for the svn-like thing
[11:57] <mdke> oh right, yeah, this isn't progressing much
[11:58] <LaserJock> I think a regular co grabs the history too so you can also make local commits as well
[11:58] <LaserJock> bzr is really powerful
[11:58] <LaserJock> but it's also got a lot of options
[11:59] <LaserJock> svn co, svn up, svn commit is really easy to do
[11:59] <mdke> ok, I'll try --lightweight
[11:59] <mdke> otherwise I'll leave this checkout thing overnight or something
[12:00] <mdke> if it told me the files it was getting I think I'd feel more encouraged :)
[12:01] <LaserJock> eventually we could have a repo with branches for each of say generic, ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, edubuntu, common
[12:01] <mdke> that would be a shame, I think
[12:02] <LaserJock> I'm still far from understanding how all that works but it sounds cool
[12:02] <LaserJock> well, I'm not sure that it would be too bad
[12:02] <LaserJock> but I know what you mean
[12:02] <LaserJock> there's something to keeping everybody together
[12:03] <LaserJock> but I think their branch repo thing could be a bit of an inbetween
[12:04] <mdke> so far it's downloaded 17 mb of .bzr and no files >_<
[12:04] <LaserJock> making it more modular, but still centralized
[12:04] <LaserJock> well, I think that's normal
[12:04] <mdke> with --lightweight? svn doesn't do that
[12:05] <mdke> does bzr just have one hidden folder in the top of the tree, rather than in all the subfolders?
[12:05] <LaserJock> yep
[12:05] <LaserJock> .bzr at the head holds everything
[12:05] <LaserJock> in fact, when you push you are just sending .bzr
[12:05] <mdke> I see
[12:05] <LaserJock> I cant take a branch
[12:05] <mdke> do you can't choose which subfolders to checkout, you have to checkout the whole branch?
[12:06] <LaserJock> that's what a branch is
[12:06] <LaserJock> I think of it as sort of smaller scale than a repo
[12:06] <LaserJock> so each branch should be a distinct "thing"
[12:07] <LaserJock> granted that model seems to apply better to software than docs
[12:07] <theCore> mdke: bzr download the whole .bzr directory, then unpack the last revision from it
[12:07] <theCore> downloads*
[12:07] <LaserJock> theCore: we are doing co --lightweight though
[12:07] <LaserJock> I gues it's just downloading the last revision to .bzr
[12:08] <theCore> LaserJock: same thing, except it only downloads the last revision, instead of all of them
[12:09] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, it took me 10m for --lightweight
[12:09] <LaserJock> hmm, our repo is just so big :/
[12:10] <LaserJock> it's only 38MB though
[12:10] <LaserJock> 10min for 38MB is kinda ...
[12:10] <LaserJock> slow
[12:10] <theCore> bzr is indeed slow
[12:11] <theCore> but I don't know why
[12:11] <mdke> cool, mine is downloaded too
[12:11] <LaserJock> you should do a full bzr branch overnight to try that out
[12:11] <theCore> I wonder if it uses compression for checkouts
[12:12] <theCore> what is the docs branch's URL?
[12:12] <LaserJock> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/ubuntu-doc/trunk
[12:12] <theCore> thanks LaserJock
[12:12] <LaserJock> mdke: if you want to try pushing you'
[12:12] <LaserJock> you'll want to grab the sandbox branch
[12:13] <mdke> I can't use that one?
[12:14] <LaserJock> no, that one is read-only I think
[12:15] <mdke> is it the usual things like "bzr rm" and "bzr cp"?
[12:15] <LaserJock> I believe so
[12:16] <LaserJock> mdke: bzr help is pretty good
[12:16] <mdke> read the docs, you think?
[12:16] <mdke> surely not
[12:16] <LaserJock> bzr help commands gives you a list of commands
[12:16] <LaserJock> and bzr help <command> gives you more info