[12:13] <crimsun> I was just about ask why kdm on feisty was kicking me out, and then I read ``df -h''
[12:13] <crimsun> +to
[12:25] <owh> I have a sideways question to ponder. Feel free to tell me to shut up. As a member of Launchpad, I signed the code of conduct and supplied a PGP key, like I'm expecting most here. I set my key to expire in two years. This is the second key I have "in the wild". I have not yet set a key to "never expire" and wondered what others do, specifically why they do it.
[12:26] <somerville32> Mine is set to never expire
[12:26] <crimsun> owh: out of paranoia, I set mine to expire annually
[12:27] <owh> somerville32: But what if protocols are upgraded or change, then you have a key that floats around "forever".
[12:27] <somerville32> owh, No. You can recall the key.
[12:27] <somerville32> There is a revocation certificate or something
[12:27] <owh> crimsun: That is my quandary. Am I being paranoid? I mean, my D/L expires, my Passport expires, so why not my key?
[12:28] <crimsun> owh: my rationale is that many protocols have a timeout to mitigate certain attacks.
[12:28] <persia> somerville32: One might lose the secret (fire, earthquake, lightning strike, tornado, typhoon, tsunami, etc.).  In that case, the revocation certificate is hard to distribute.
[12:28] <owh> somerville32: I didn't know that. So, that would mean that you can revoke a key from the whole server tree, automatically, or does it mean that if some nefarious person has your key and refuses to revoke it, it can still be used?
[12:29] <owh> persia: That's not as silly as it sounds.
[12:29] <persia> owh: It wasn't meant as a joke.  My keys expire each year.
[12:30] <owh> persia: I know. I didn't take it as such.
[12:30] <somerville32> lol
[12:30] <geser> you should ideally have already a revocation certificate
[12:30] <somerville32> I guess it has never meant much to me
[12:30] <somerville32> I mean, no one has ever signed my key
[12:30] <geser> so you can upload it if you lose control over you key
[12:31] <somerville32> I just use it when required
[12:31] <owh> geser: That is an excellent suggestion. I suppose you could store that certificate on a disk at a bank.
[12:31] <geser> or print it out
[12:32] <owh> geser: Even better :-)
[12:32] <owh> I suppose I've always been aware of keys, but I never had the opportunity to discuss the implications.
[12:34] <owh> Thanks all for indulging me on an OT question.
[12:35] <crimsun> good thing you didn't sign them back a signed pdf
[12:35] <crimsun> s/sign them/send them/
[12:37] <owh> crimsun: Hmm, well, Acrobat allows you to digitally sign a PDF, but most offices wouldn't know what to do with it if it hit them :-)
[12:37] <owh> Just found a useful article on the topic: http://www.spywarewarrior.com/uiuc/ss/revoke/pgp-revoke.htm
[12:38] <owh> In addition to persia's comment, your hard disk may also crash and you'll be SOL.
[01:13] <bddebian> OMG these packages are fsck'd up
[01:14] <LaserJock> Adri2000: pong
[01:14] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[01:16] <Adri2000> LaserJock: what do you want to do for this bug https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/genesis/+bug/80814, the man page already says to copy /usr/share/genesis/startup/simrc to ~/.simrc
[01:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80814 in genesis "genesis doesn't start from menu without ~/.simrc" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[01:17] <LaserJock> Adri2000: well it's no good if it's run from the menu
[01:17] <LaserJock> Adri2000: people expect a menu entry to work
[01:17] <Adri2000> that's the other bug, Terminal=true is needed in the .desktop file
[01:18] <LaserJock> yeah, but we already filed the bug in Debian and got it through
[01:18] <LaserJock> I hate to go send an email saying "Ooops, please take it out again"
[01:18] <LaserJock> but perhaps that's the way to go
[01:18] <LaserJock> regardless I think that genesis doesn't handle it well
[01:18] <LaserJock> they don't say where to get the .simrc file
[01:19] <Adri2000> the man page does
[01:19] <persia> The ,desktop file has two purposes: it allows execution from the menu, and includes the program in app-install-data.  Perhaps the menu entry can be hidden?
[01:19] <LaserJock> I don't think that's sufficent
[01:20] <LaserJock> persia: I don't mind a menu entry, it just should work
[01:20] <LaserJock> that's why I filed two bugs there
[01:20] <LaserJock> 1) the menu entry should work
[01:21] <LaserJock> 2) genesis should copy the simrc file to ~/.simrc if it doesn't exist
[01:22] <LaserJock> well, I filed them for a user that came to #ubuntu-science
[01:22] <LaserJock> they wanted to try out genesis but when they clicked on the menu entry it didn't do anything
[01:23] <LaserJock> when I asked to run it from a terminal they got that message
[01:24] <Adri2000> that would be easy to patch the program to say "use cp /usr/share/... ~/.simrc" in the error message
[01:24] <LaserJock> well, that would be a start
[01:24] <LaserJock> but it's still not sufficent for me
[01:25] <persia> Adri2000: Alternately, a wrapper script could be installed [ -f ~/simrc ]  || cp /usr/share/genesis/startup/simrc ~/.simrc
[01:25] <LaserJock> that's more along the lines of what I was thinking
[01:26] <LaserJock> if you used something like genesis-start and then had the .desktop call that
[01:27] <LaserJock> it should be sufficient without fiddiling around with the source
[01:35] <bddebian> Gah, why isn't debian/changelog getting installed? :-(
[01:35] <bddebian> Err copyright I mean
[01:36] <facenew> OT: a short movie mocking Kim Jong Il and his secret agent buying something from China: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EE52D9ED01495685
[01:37] <Adri2000> facenew: can you stop spamming channels please?
[02:04] <_MMA_> Hello guys. thenetduck here wants to learn to package. I sent him here.
[02:04] <thenetduck> oh thanks _MMA_ :)
[02:04] <_MMA_> thenetduck: Start by looking at the links in the topic.
[02:06] <LaserJock> welcome thenetduck 
[02:07] <thenetduck> hi LaserJock , I just added myself to the launchpad is it too soon for me to do that? 
[02:09] <LaserJock> thenetduck: what did you add yourself to in Launchpad?
[02:10] <thenetduck> to the contributors of packages. I
[02:10] <thenetduck> I haven't done anything yet but would to get involved 
[02:10] <thenetduck> (I am out of school for a while and it has been a goal of mine to learn and contribute since I started using Ubuntu) 
[02:10] <LaserJock> yes, that's fine. Do you have a gpg key on your launchpad account?
[02:11] <thenetduck> I.. don't think so. 
[02:12] <thenetduck> can you explain to me what a gpg key is? 
[02:12] <LaserJock> !gpg
[02:12] <ubotu> gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[02:13] <LaserJock> thenetduck: I'll let the wiki explain ^^ ;-)
[02:13] <thenetduck> :) ok 
[02:16] <thenetduck> ok so it makes it so that not just anyone is downloading or uploading to that server? Kind of like a real key to the door of a server? 
[02:18] <thenetduck> LaserJock, ok so I looked up the keys and have this one gpg: /home/duck/.gnupg/trustdb.gpg: trustdb created
[02:18] <thenetduck> 
[02:19] <thenetduck> LaserJock, is that the correct key? or should I make a new one ?
[02:23] <LaserJock> make a new one
[02:24] <thenetduck> LaserJock, what is my key ID? 
[02:27] <LaserJock> that is the unique ID of your new key
[02:28] <LaserJock>  gpg --list-keys should list your key
[02:28] <thenetduck> ok
[02:32] <ToHellWithGA> is this the correct place to ask about tetex and texlive?  i heard that tetex may be dropped for texlive in the near future.
[02:33] <Hobbsee> ToHellWithGA: FYI, i'ts a sunday in most countries
[02:33] <ToHellWithGA> it's a monday in your country!
[02:36] <Hobbsee> true that, but i'm an aussie
[02:37] <LaserJock> ToHellWithGA: I don't think Ubuntu would really make that decision. Debian is where that decision would most likely take place
[02:37] <ToHellWithGA> oh right on then.  i'm afraid of those guys so i guess i'll jsut watch it play out :/
[02:37] <LaserJock> ToHellWithGA: I can't imagine tetex going away very soon. texlive has still got a fair amount of bugs to work out it seems to me
[02:37] <ToHellWithGA> i was not a fan of the texlive cd
[02:38] <ToHellWithGA> so i can't see how it could be much better under *buntu
[02:38] <LaserJock> well, I think gradually texlive will become the preferred tex distribution
[02:39] <ToHellWithGA> i don't think of debian folks as hasty, so i reckon the transition will be smooth when it happens
[02:39] <LaserJock> I would hope so
[02:39] <ToHellWithGA> thanks for the explanation LaserJock 
[02:39] <LaserJock> the Debian TeX maintainers are pretty good
[02:39] <LaserJock> they seem on top of it
[02:39] <ToHellWithGA> i'll leave you cats to your dev club channel :)
[02:39] <ToHellWithGA> peace out
[02:42] <thenetduck> hey, I get this when I type in gpg --list-keys 
[02:42] <thenetduck> pub   1024D/00F267E8 2007-01-22
[02:42] <thenetduck> uid                  Sterling Cobb (This is me! First time I used my name and email address at the same to so thats a lot of trust.) <thenetduck@gmail.com>
[02:42] <thenetduck> sub   2048g/87C36AD8 2007-01-22
[02:42] <thenetduck> doesn't make since 
[02:43] <Hobbsee> 00F267E8 is the key ID.
[02:43] <thenetduck> Hobbsee, thank you
[02:52] <thenetduck> does it really take about an hour for these keys to sync up with the key server/ 
[02:53] <bddebian> crimsun: You aboot?
[02:53] <crimsun> eh?
[02:54] <bddebian> crimsun: Do you happen to have a minute for another quick review for me?
[02:54] <crimsun> sure. Will be a bit lagged.
[02:54] <bddebian> NP
[02:54] <bddebian>  libticables2-1
[02:56] <bddebian> I'm trying to get back into LaserJock's good graces ;-)
[02:58] <ajmitch> good luck with that
[03:00] <crimsun> yeah, talk about a slavedriver ;)
[03:03] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[03:03] <bddebian> Ah, so I am in the dog-house with him eh?
[03:05] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:07] <LaserJock> bddebian: is that an SRU?
[03:12] <thenetduck> LaserJock, I have gotten a gpg all set up anything else I should do? :)
[03:12] <bddebian> LaserJock: No, I'm going through your bug list again :-)
[04:03] <bddebian> Is it bad policy to delete a file on postinst?
[04:06] <persia> bddebian: Plenty of packages do that, but apparently only when transitioning from one method of doing things to another.  I can't speak to policy though.
[04:08] <bddebian> persia: Well eagle creates a .eaglerc because it runs on postinst, therefore it gets created with root perms.  It has to in order to create the license file. So I was thinking just deleting .eaglerc after the fact..
[04:13] <persia> bddebian: I can't find anything in policy that indicates you shoudn't do that, but can you be sure which .eaglerc is being created?  I'm thinking about the case of a package upgrade by a user running `sudo aptitude` from their home directory.  How does this interact with the license process?
[04:14] <bddebian> persia: The license gets in ~/eagle afaict.  And apt-get runs as sudo right?  So what would be different.  (Probably dumb question, sorry)
[04:16] <persia> bddebian: Let me look at the specific package.  In general, I thought the user might have put customisation in ~/.eaglerc, in which case deleting this would fall under loss of user data.
[04:19] <bddebian> Lethargy: ?? :)
[04:19] <bddebian> Anyone know if we have a Yahtzee time game in the archives at all? :)
[04:19] <persia> bddebian: Tali
[04:19] <Lethargy> bddebian, :D
[04:20] <persia> bddebian: Ah, are you trying to address the "run once as root" problem with eagle?
[04:21] <bddebian> persia: Aye
[04:21] <bddebian> persia: And I don't see a "Tali" in the archive?
[04:23] <persia> bddebian: That's why I'm not finding anything about .eaglerc :)  One solution would be to run su -l root -c eagle && rm ~root/,eaglerc in postinst.  This avoids collision with the user configuration, although I haven't tested it.
[04:24] <persia> bddebian: gnome-games provides /usr/games/gtali.
[04:24] <bddebian> persia: It doesn't get in ~root, it gets in ~<user>
[04:25] <bddebian> Oh and thanks for gnome-games :)
[04:25] <persia> bddebian: with su -l?
[04:25] <bddebian> Oh.. Hmm
[04:25] <persia> bddebian: No worries.  Ask me about games anytime :)
[04:28] <bddebian> Well I keep meaning to focus on games but I keep getting "distracted" :)
[04:30] <persia> bddebian: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~motugames/+assignedbugs doesn't include as much as it should (and it should probably be subscribed), but is one of the places I like to check for games, or do you mean actually playing them?
[04:36] <bddebian> persia: No, I meant fixing them/packaging them.  When I play games I stick to RPGs in Windows :-(
[04:39] <persia> bddebian: From what I can tell, it's the plot.  There are plenty of great engines available, but few plots are free.  Something about a return on creative energies.
[04:41] <bddebian> Yeah :-(
[04:47] <nixternal> DA BEARS!!!
[04:51] <bddebian> Heh
[05:02] <LaserJock> heh
[05:02] <persia> Is anyone familiar with xmllint?  Is echoing the entire XML file an indication that there are no problems?
[05:02] <LaserJock> Colts are going to kick the Bear's butt
[05:03] <bddebian> LaserJock: Colts lost :-(
[05:03] <bddebian> persia: Not me, ,sorry
[05:03] <LaserJock> persia: that doesn't sound quite right
[05:03] <LaserJock> how are you calling it?
[05:04] <LaserJock> bddebian: no way
[05:04] <persia> LaserJock: That's what I thought.  I'm working on #4736, and xmllint echoes my local preferences.xml while reporting problems with the submitters preferences.xml.  I'm trying to determine if torcs' xml parsing is completely broken or just not good at entity handling.
[05:05] <persia> LaserJock: xmllint preferences.xml
[05:07] <LaserJock> persia: try xmllint --noout --postvalid preferences.xml
[05:10] <persia> LaserJock: Thanks, that works as expected.  I wonder why xmllint is so verbose by default.
[05:12] <bddebian> Man, I can't fix shit :-(
[05:16] <persia> Are -dbgsym packages only created for main, or just when packages are rebuilt?
[05:26] <bddebian> LaserJock: Holy crap, I lied, the Colts did pull it out
[05:27] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:27] <LaserJock> bddebian: I wasn't lying to ya dude ;-)
[05:32] <bddebian> LaserJock: I stopped watching and a buddy told me that NE won so I didn't pay attention :-(
[05:52] <TheMuso> c
[05:56] <LaserJock> d
[05:59] <LaserJock> nixternal: you put money on the Saints?!?!
[06:08] <bddebian> Well obviously the genesis bug doesn't seem that difficult but how do you keep .simrc from being root owned?
[06:11] <persia> bddebian: The solution dicussed earlier was to have the .desktop call genesis-startup, which was `[ -f ~/.simrc ]   cp /usr/share/genesis/startup/simrc ~/.simrc; genesis`.  Also, add Terminal=true to the .desktop file.
[06:12] <persia> bddebian: I think Adrian is working on it.
[06:12] <bddebian> persia: OK but what if they run it from the CL? :)
[06:12] <persia> bddebian: If they run it from the CLI, the error message is posted.  Perhaps the source needs to have the error message made nicer?
[06:13] <persia> bddebian: Alternately, install genesis as the wrapper, and have /usr/bin/genesis.real be the actual binary :)
[06:13] <bddebian> Or install .simrc with 777? ;-P
[06:14] <persia> bddebian: I don't think it is a good idea to install it in the postinst, as the system may be a multiuser system, and a new user may be created, for whom there is no .simrc.
[06:15] <bddebian> What is the "working" dir for genesis, ,do you know?
[06:15] <bddebian> Like why isn't there an /etc/genesis/.simrc or some such?
[06:16] <persia> bddebian: I don't know (I've never used genesis: just was thinking about these bugs yesterday).
[06:26] <LaserJock> well
[06:27] <LaserJock> I think providing a wrapper around genesis wouldn't be that hard
[06:28] <LaserJock> although it aggravates me when upstreams don't take the time to think about this sort of thing
[06:31] <bddebian> I suppose the easiest thing would be to add the wrapper genesis_startup or something from the menu or .desktop file and have it check if ~/.simrc exists and if not copy it.  If they run it from the CL, they'll get the error and know what to do I suppose.
[06:32] <LaserJock> well, I think running it from CL should do the same thing though
[06:32] <LaserJock> but it should at least work from the menu
[06:33] <persia> bddebian: IF you're worried about the command line interface, reference the wrapper in bristol.  /usr/bin/bristol is a shell script that does all the fancy stuff, and /usr/bin/bristol.real is the actual executable.
[06:33] <bddebian> Well we could hack the executable itself I suppose :-)
[06:33] <LaserJock> I'm just not sure if it's a good idea to move the genesis binary to binary.real
[06:33] <persia> LaserJock: Why not, if it is to be wrapped?
[06:34] <LaserJock> persia: if something else relies on /usr/bin/genesis being the binary
[06:34] <LaserJock> it's probably perfectly safe in this instance
[06:34] <bddebian> persia: I have to agree with LaserJock.  What if something else expects it there?  Say genesis-convert or whatever that is
[06:34] <LaserJock> but just moving around binaries seems a little invasive
[06:34] <LaserJock> bddebian: in that instance though still, the wrapper just calls genesis.real
[06:35] <LaserJock> so it's just adding a couple lines before executing it
[06:35] <persia> I see.  I'm not sure most of that can't be worked around using $*, but it's probably safer not to modify it (especially for non-regular users).
[06:35] <LaserJock> I can't see how it would do any harm
[06:35] <bddebian> LaserJock: I mean /usr/bin/genesis-convert exists already.  Does it expect genesis?
[06:35] <LaserJock> bddebian: doesn't matter though
[06:36] <bddebian> Why not?
[06:36] <LaserJock> because it will get genesis if it runs genesis
[06:36] <LaserJock> it just has a couple lines of code inbetween
[06:36] <bddebian> Ahh I see what you mean
[06:37] <LaserJock> but I can see if there was hardcoding somewhere there could be a possibility of something going wrong
[06:43] <bddebian> Oh well, I digress and have to get my old butt to bed.  Gnight gang
[06:43] <persia> Good night bddebian
[06:57] <LaserJock> oh my gosh, gnuplot just ploted my data as ASCII art!
[07:27] <ciscosurfer> Does anyone know if the Feisty devs or package maintainers plan on backporting Xfce 4.4 to Edgy?
[07:47] <Mez> ciscosurfer, http://launchpad.net/edgy-backports/
[07:47] <Mez> and - ciscosurfer I'm one of the backports team - I'm not going to look at it - seems a nightmare - jdong might
[07:48] <ciscosurfer> Mez: okay.  Thanks for the repsonse though.  Maybe I can get JDong to agree :-)
[07:50] <ciscosurfer> Mez: will it be in Feisty (or is it already?)
[07:51] <ciscosurfer> Mez: I realize you are on the backports team, but thought I'd ask anyhow :-)
[07:51] <Mez> ciscosurfer, -> #xubuntu
[07:51] <Mez> I dont use XFCE - ask in there
[07:51] <ciscosurfer> okay, i'll give it a shot
[07:51] <ciscosurfer> thanks
[08:43] <StevenK> TheMuso: Ping, re: espeak 1.18
[08:51] <persia> Could anyone familiar with C++ help me find the typo in this patch: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/2521/
[08:51] <persia> nevermind.  Sorry for the spam.
[09:01] <LaserJock> persia: spam? I usually don't think of 1 line as being spam
[09:02] <persia> LaserJock: At least for my client, I receive notice whenever there is traffic, so useless traffic generates useless activity on my part.  On the other hand, please take a look at bug 4736!
[09:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 4736 in torcs "torcs b0rks preferences.xml and then crashes on it" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4736
[09:15] <StevenK> persia: Surely there has to be other variables to replace than just <, >, and &?
[09:15] <StevenK> s/variables/entities/
[09:16] <persia> StevenK: Torcs doesn't crash when I use ";" as a control character.  What other characters do you suggest changing?
[09:16] <StevenK> I'm not sure, since my XML escaping is a little rusty.
[09:17] <persia> StevenK: I'm not familiar with all keyboards in use, but I think only ;, <, and > are common XML characters that are also unshifted characters on some keyboards.
[09:17] <StevenK> Personally, I'd assign curParam->value to a temporary value, and then switch() on it, changing the temporary variable to the entity, and then printing the whole lot.
[09:18] <persia> StevenK: I didn't think switch() worked for strings in C++, but I'm mostly famliar with C.
[09:19] <StevenK> It's a char, not a string, surely?
[09:19] <persia> StevenK: It's a string.  The interface limits it to a single character for controls, but the same output interface is also used for things like the Player name, and I'm not writing a patch that separates that: upstream can change it if they really want.
[09:20] <StevenK> persia: *nod* And use strncmp
[09:20] <persia> StevenK: strncmp, not strcmp?
[09:20] <StevenK> Hold on, is it a STL string, or a char *?
[09:21] <StevenK> persia: A caveat is that my C++ is rusty as hell. :-)
[09:22] <persia> StevenK: char* (my C++ is based on the assumption that mostly it's like C).
[09:22] <StevenK> Right, for char *, use strncmp(). STL strings come with their own comparsion routines and headaches.
[09:23] <StevenK> Note strncmp() of course takes 3 arguments. :-)
[09:23] <persia> StevenK: man page indicates strncmp(str1, str2, n).  Does that match your memory?
[09:24] <StevenK> Indeed
[09:25] <StevenK> persia: Perhaps you should say strncmp() == 0, given that strncmp() can return less than 0, which means curParam->value was less than "&".
[09:25] <persia> StevenK: Thanks for your refinements.  I've been eyeing this bug for the past year, and this is the first time my solution worked without regressions.
[09:25] <StevenK> persia: Any time. :-)
[09:26] <cypher1> persia: just for my interest..can i look at your patch ?
[09:26] <persia> StevenK: Regarding strncmp==0, I've always thought !strcmp() was cleaner, but I suppose it is a personal preference.  if (! (-1) ) should still not execute.
[09:26] <persia> cypher1: see bug 4736
[09:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 4736 in torcs "torcs b0rks preferences.xml and then crashes on it" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4736
[09:27] <cypher1> persia: thanks..
[09:27] <StevenK> persia: !strncmp() should match two cases, though?
[09:27] <persia> StevenK: Is your keyboard one of those affected?  I thought the common keyboard there used shift for &, <, and > (and ; is kept in an awkward location).
[09:28] <StevenK> persia: I have to shift for &, < and >
[09:29] <persia> StevenK: That's what I thought.  My understanding is that < is a base key only for some of Europe and Brasil, but I'm not certain of that.
[09:31] <StevenK> I was going to use Dvorak as an example, but that requires shift as well.
[09:32] <persia> StevenK: My understanding is that those characters are only base in places where the typography calls for common use as containers (e.g. <hello world>).
[09:33] <cypher1> persia: is "&lt" is what we have use to represent "<" in an xml file ?
[09:33] <persia> cypher1: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/98/08/xmlqna0.html
[09:38] <cypher1> persia: thank you.. how about the other two predefined entities ' and "
[09:38] <persia> cypher1: I'm testing now...
[09:38] <cypher1> persia: ok :)
[09:39] <persia> cypher1: Thanks for prompting me.  I'd been remembering my XML, rather than looking it up :)
[09:40] <cypher1> persia: no problem :)
[09:41] <cypher1> persia: i am looking for a bug to fix in C++.. any idea anything is open ?
[09:41] <cypher1> persia: since i am learning C++ .. and would love to code something
[09:42] <cypher1> persia: is ur name inspired from prince of persia ??
[09:44] <persia> cypher1: No.  I used to say "Yeah, and I'm the king of Persia" when someone said something obviously false (Persia chose to change it's name in the early 20th century, and never had a king).  When I received my first UNIX account, I was assigned that handle.
[09:45] <cypher1> persia: cool
[09:45] <persia> cypher1: Take a look at bug 69433.  Half the fun is finding the crash, at which point you get to fix it with C++.
[09:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69433 in glob2 "crash upon canceling of further campaigns" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69433
[09:49] <dholbach> good morning
[09:50] <ajmitch> morning dholbach 
[09:50] <cypher1> persia: thanks.. let me have a look
[09:50] <cypher1> dholbach: good morning !
[10:07] <dholbach> hiya ajmitch, hey cypher1
[10:09] <raphink> hi ajmitch, dholbach
[10:10] <dholbach> hey raphink
[10:10] <ajmitch> hey raphink 
[10:10] <raphink> what's up?
[10:11] <raphink> :s
[10:11] <raphink> instead of sed
[10:11] <raphink> I think the limit is not very high though :(
[10:11] <ajmitch> hehe
[10:12] <raphink> i.e. ${FOO##bar1%bar2} doesn't work
[10:12] <raphink> nor does ${FOO/.*_\([1-9a-z] *\)\.changes/\1}
[10:12] <raphink> :(
[10:13] <raphink> hehe
[10:14] <raphink> that's fun :)
[10:15] <ajmitch> nice :)
[10:15] <ajmitch> useful features
[10:15] <raphink> mhm
[10:22] <raphink> buildd/wanna-build is still quite complicate
[10:32] <\sh> moins
[10:33] <persia> I'm looking over unmetdeps, and there are many binaries in universe that are no longer built.  Could someone show be a template bug that matches those I should file.  I have heard that OUTDATED doesn't include universe.
[10:38] <ajmitch> hey \sh 
[10:38] <ajmitch> persia: search for one with UNMET in the title?
[10:38] <ajmitch> or is that not what you need?
[10:41] <persia> ajmitch: The few I've just looked at aren't really what I need.  They seem to either be rebuild requests, or require small patches to debian/control to build properly.  I'm looking for a bug to complain about packages that are no longer built from current source.  My memory is that Tollef reported that OUTDATED didn't include universe, and there seem to be a fair number in the unmet list.
[11:08] <asimon> Hello, I lost connection during uploading something to REVU (gtk2-engines-qtcurve). Now I cant reupload the package because of already existing files. Is there something I can do to fix this (dcut doesn't seem to help) or should I mail the revu admins? Thanks.
[11:13] <gpocentek> asimon: did you try 'dput -f *source.changes' ?
[11:14] <asimon> gpocentek: Yes, I still get an '553 Could not create file.'-error with -f
[11:14] <gpocentek> asimon: then mail the admins, they'll have to remove the existing files I think
[11:14] <asimon> Okay, thanks.
[11:21] <raphink> hi
[11:21] <gpocentek> hello raphink 
[11:21] <raphink> yop gpocentek
[11:21] <raphink> anyone knows why sbuild only tries to install the first build-dep when build-deps are listed with | ?
[11:22] <raphink> and if this is a normal behaviour for sbuild
[12:07] <dholbach> did anybody ever upload 'murrine'?
[12:07] <dholbach> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4150
[12:07] <dholbach> it has two ACKs
[12:08] <dholbach> but is not in NEW or in the archive nor anywhere else
[12:08] <ajmitch> ah, subsequent uploads since the acks
[12:09] <geser> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+queue?queue_state=4&queue_text=murrine
[12:10] <persia> dholbach: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-January/001179.html
[12:11] <geser> looks like murrine was rejected again
[12:13] <fernando> moin all
[12:33] <ajmitch> geser: you free to check over & ACK the needinfo bugs that ubuntu-archive is subscribed to?
[12:34] <ajmitch> there's 6 of them, all done by the debian maintainer
[12:34] <StevenK> ajmitch: Hey, you're not supposed to delegate it. :-P
[12:34] <ajmitch> StevenK: it's what I do
[12:34] <StevenK> :-P
[12:34] <ajmitch> StevenK: now that you've spoken up, you get the job
[12:34] <StevenK> ajmitch: Can't, sorry.
[12:35] <ajmitch> rubbish
[12:35] <StevenK> ajmitch: I would, but I'm in the middle of an after-hours callout for work
[12:35] <ajmitch> pfft
[12:35] <StevenK> Hence the can't, sorry
[12:35] <ajmitch> and you're on irc :)
[12:35] <StevenK> Yeah, well.
[12:36] <StevenK> Maybe I might do them while I wait for a callback
[12:37] <ajmitch> hm, I see doko ACKing some
[12:38] <ajmitch> doko: thanks, now I can go & sleep
[12:39] <persia> If it's ACK time, perhaps someone would be interested in 80540 or 80404?
[12:46] <StevenK> bug 80540
[12:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80540 in openoffice.org-en-au "Please sync openoffice.org-en-au 2.1-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80540
[12:47] <StevenK> persia: It builds and installs fine on Feisty?
[12:47] <persia> StevenK: It did for me.
[12:48] <persia> StevenK: It's failing for me now.  I'll take another look.  Sorry.
[12:49] <StevenK> 40,840         1.59K/s    ETA 55:06
[12:49] <StevenK> Go ftp.debian.org!
[12:52] <StevenK> And http.us.d.o is not synced up, woo
[12:57] <persia> StevenK: Don't bother.  There's something odd (unless it's my build environment).  Wait for the sync (or let someone closer hit it).
[01:00] <StevenK> I have the source, it's fine
[01:05] <StevenK> persia: It's because /bin/sh != bash
[01:06] <persia> StevenK: My apologies then.  My build environment was not ideal then.  I'll reject and go make a patch.
[01:06] <StevenK> persia: bashisms in debian/rules, like install -m644 en_AU.{aff,dic} th_en_AU_v2.{dat,idx} /tmp/buildd/openoffice.org-en-au-2.1/debian/usr/share/myspell/dicts aren't going to work
[01:06] <StevenK> persia: It's fine. :-) Bug me when you want a sponsor
[01:07] <StevenK> If you're quickish, anyway
[01:08] <xerxas> Hi all 
[01:09] <xerxas> can someone review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4162 ? 
[01:13] <persia> StevenK: Thanks.  Patch up (on the bug).
[01:13] <StevenK> Neat
[01:14] <StevenK> :-P
[01:15] <StevenK> Perhaps you should include the previous Ubuntu changelog entries, as well as saying "Merge from Debian unstable. Dropping all Ubuntu changes. Remove bashisms from debian/rules." ?
[01:15] <StevenK> Like MoM does, etc etc
[01:16] <persia> StevenK: All previous Ubuntu changelog entries are included in the Debian source.  There are no preserved changes.
[01:16] <persia> or rather, Debian merged all the changes (and documented it).
[01:17] <StevenK> persia: Not the point, I still need the changelog entry for 2.1-1ubuntu1, so that all of the changes since then can be in the .changes file
[01:17] <muzzol> im compiling cinelerra feisty packages with pbuilder from an edgy machine, is there any diference if i compile it from a feisty box? i mean if kernel and gcc versions can affect final package...
[01:18] <persia> StevenK: Debian ships that changelog entry.  I consider this to be a very special case.
[01:18] <StevenK> They do?!
[01:18] <StevenK> They do too, right, I take it back
[01:18] <persia> StevenK: Yep.  2.1-2 is 2.1-1ubuntu1 + new changes.
[01:18] <StevenK> Okay then, that's one point of two addressed.
[01:19] <persia> StevenK: OK.  I'll change it to MoM style.  I thought it might be avoided in this case, as it wasn't really a merge.
[01:19] <StevenK> Hrrrrrrm
[01:20] <StevenK> I think it is
[01:21] <muzzol> anyone?
[01:22] <Hobbsee> muzzol: it'll be the same as with your feisty pbuilder
[01:22] <Hobbsee> (the feisty machine, that is)
[01:22] <Hobbsee> assuming it's updated
[01:23] <did448> muzzol:it's the point of pbuilder
[01:23] <muzzol> yes, i've just created the pbuilder feisty package
[01:23] <persia> StevenK: How's this for phrasing (before I upload): Merge from debian unstable, all Ubuntu changes merged in Debian.
[01:23] <muzzol> so the gcc package is the one iside pbuilder virtual chroot, not the one on my machine, right?
[01:25] <Hobbsee> muzzol: correct
[01:26] <muzzol> thanks Hobbsee
[01:26] <muzzol> is what i thought but i just wanted to be sure
[01:26] <muzzol> :)
[01:31] <StevenK> persia: That works. Show me the debdiff. :-P
[01:31] <muzzol> bye
[01:34] <persia> StevenK: Posted.
[01:35] <StevenK> Looks fine, applies fine.
[01:37] <StevenK> Builds fine too
[01:38] <StevenK> Installs fine three
[01:40] <persia> Yay!  I'm down to less then 7% of the u-u-s queue!  Thanks.
[01:41] <StevenK> persia: Uploading. Sorry for being such a nitpicky so-and-so. :-)
[01:43] <persia> StevenK: No, it's a good thing.  As Ubuntu grows it needs the stronger procedures to maintain order.  Coming back after my last engagement, I am now motivated to follow processes, whereas before there was more work than the few around could do, and I still have bad habits.
[01:44] <StevenK> Procedures shouldn't be a stick to beat people with, though.
[01:44] <StevenK> Even if it is very fun.
[01:45] <persia> StevenK: I can agree with that (especially the pause).
[01:45] <Hobbsee> StevenK: excluding SRU's, though
[01:45] <Hobbsee> they're just a bloody pain.
[01:45] <StevenK> Hey now, I like the SRU procedure
[01:45] <StevenK> Mind you, I'm a nice part of it, so I'm biased
[01:46] <persia> Hobbsee: From what I've seen here compared to trying to get updates into Debian Woody, it's really easy.
[01:46] <StevenK> That's only because Joey says "Security? What non-security updates
[01:46] <StevenK> ?"
[01:46] <Hobbsee> StevenK: heh :)
[01:46] <Hobbsee> persia: ugh, havent looked at that
[01:47] <StevenK> You can't anyway, Woody is long dead.
[01:47] <persia> Hobbsee: When Woody was released, drupal was completely broken.  Fixes were available, and waited for Sarge (see StevenK's comment above).
[01:47] <Hobbsee> persia: ugh
[01:48] <StevenK> Personally, I love the idea of -updates.
[01:48] <persia> Me too.
[01:48] <StevenK> persia: Oh, s/ing/ed/
[01:48] <persia> StevenK: ?
[01:49] <StevenK> Successfully uploaded packages.
[01:50] <persia> StevenK: Ah.  Thanks.  Speaking of procedures, where is the assignment, the .changes comment, and the Fix Committed?
[01:51] <StevenK> Assign to whom?
[01:51] <StevenK> Like I sponsor packages. :-P
[01:52] <Hobbsee> StevenK: sureyou do :P
[01:52] <StevenK> Shush! I have a reputation!
[01:53] <persia> StevenK: cf bug 80472.  My understanding is that the uploader self-assigns, includes the .changes in the comment, and sets to Fix Committed.
[01:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80472 in mhwaveedit "merge mhwaveedit 1.4.11-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80472
[01:53] <Hobbsee> if it doesnt build, i find otu in other ways 
[01:53] <Hobbsee> (like, it sends me the build log saying it failed)
[01:54] <Hobbsee> which was that?
[01:54] <persia> Hobbsee: drscheme.  It was agreed to leave it, as it built on more architectures than the previous version, but still.
[01:55] <StevenK> Heh
[01:55] <StevenK> drscheme evidently subscribes to the piecemeal building approach.
[01:55] <Hobbsee> oh right, it's not under my list of packages, as it was signed by your key
[01:55] <Hobbsee> StevenK: the which?
[01:56] <persia> drscheme needs a lot of work.  Every time I look it fails in completely different ways.
[01:56] <StevenK> Hah
[01:56] <StevenK> Hobbsee: "I built on i386 last time, let's build on i386 and ia64, just to confuse people."
[01:56] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:56] <persia> Hobbsee: Your key, my name in the changelog.  Launchpad only uses keys for trust, but changelog entries for notification.  That's the reason for the Committed step.  For your own uploads, Fix Released is probably fine.
[01:57] <Hobbsee> oh...interesting...
[01:57] <StevenK> Oh, sigh, it doesn't really use it for trust.
[01:57] <Hobbsee> persia: true.   i thought it sent failed messages to both.
[01:57] <StevenK> Since it allows unsigned keys to be used.
[01:57] <Hobbsee> uh, yeah
[01:57] <persia> StevenK: I thought LP verified the signatures on acceptance?  Does it not?
[01:57] <Hobbsee> it does, yes.  that the key is the same as LP
[01:58] <StevenK> Yes, but a verified signature means close to nothing without a trust path.
[01:58] <Hobbsee> it doesnt check that it's signed or anything
[01:58] <StevenK> The *key* being signed is very very different from the *package* being signed by the key
[01:58] <persia> I see.  Still, it verifies that the key belongs to the LP account which received the acceptance of the CC/TB.  It could be a committee, so long as they worked well together.
[01:59] <StevenK> It doesn't, actuallyt
[01:59] <StevenK> s/lyt/
[01:59] <persia> StevenK: Huh?  It doesn't check the key against the LP account?  Oh my.  There is a feature request, surely?
[02:00] <StevenK> persia: You aren't understanding me, but I don't think I'm explaining very well.
[02:01] <persia> StevenK: I understand you to be saying that LP only validates that the package is signed by a valid key, but doesn't require that the authenticity of the key is verified.
[02:01] <Hobbsee> the end effect is that someone can change the key on LP, LP doesnt require the new one to be signed, or to be of that user, presumably, so the only safeguard is the launchpad p/w
[02:02] <StevenK> persia: It *does* check the signature, and *does* check it against a Launchpad account. That isn't the issue at all. What the issue is, is that some -dev member gets their Launchpad password comprimised, and some nasty person removes the current GPG key, adds their own, and uploads nasty crap into the archive.
[02:02] <Hobbsee> ah...that's right
[02:04] <persia> StevenK: I see.  In that case, the solution is more annoying and complicated.  Thanks for the details.  (LP could authenticate with certificates, or something)
[02:05] <StevenK> Or could refuse to accept a key unless it can verify at least signature in the keyring.
[02:05] <Hobbsee> persia: effectively, you'd have to ensure that the real name on LP was in fact the real name on the key - and that the primary email on LP was on the key too
[02:05] <StevenK> at least one
[02:05] <Hobbsee> that too
[02:05] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Somewhat less important, since the person signing it would have checked that
[02:05] <Hobbsee> mmm....true
[02:05] <StevenK> Right, can I stop giving a GnuPG lesson now? :-P
[02:06] <persia> StevenK: Yes.  No more lesson (it's been GPG day all day - at least four threads).
[02:06] <StevenK> Heh
[02:10] <Hobbsee> mmmm....crack...
[02:10] <StevenK> Hum?
[02:10] <Hobbsee> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=338279 <-- various news sites have pointed to that in the past few days...
[02:13] <StevenK> Oh yeah, that's a whole lot of crack
[02:13] <StevenK> Installing into an ext3 image. Yummy.
[02:15] <Hobbsee> and "supposedly not modifying the bootloader, but chainloading grub to the end of hte windows bootloader"
[02:16] <StevenK> Yup. Because that's the recommended way to boot Linux.
[02:16] <StevenK> :-P
[02:17] <tepsipakki> what's the procedure to get an update for a package I maintain in multiverse (gtkpod-aac)? I have a new version ready, the old one segfaults in feisty
[02:17] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: debdiff, find an uploader
[02:17] <Hobbsee> s/uploader/sponsor/
[02:17] <tepsipakki> debdiff against the old version?
[02:17] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: StevenK looks willing
[02:17] <Hobbsee> yes
[02:17] <tepsipakki> ok
[02:19] <tepsipakki> it's a new upstream also
[02:19] <persia> tepsipakki: More formally, upload a debdiff including your fixes to the bug that you are fixing (open a new bug for >=3 fixes), and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.  A sponsor will upload your bug when they have time.
[02:19] <tepsipakki> well, I need to put the tarball somewhere
[02:20] <tepsipakki> but I'll just attach the URL
[02:20] <persia> tepsipakki: For a new upstream, upload your package to REVU, and open a bug pointing to the REVU location including your new changelog.  For ease of reviewing, include diff -Nur of debian/
[02:20] <tepsipakki> nooo..
[02:20] <tepsipakki> it can wait, then ;)
[02:20] <persia> tepsipakki: Those were the procedures I was given.  Linking to an alternate location from REVU probably works as well.
[02:23] <Hobbsee> persia: people dont look at REVU unless poked to.
[02:24] <persia> Hobbsee: You told me to upload for bug 79498.  Consider yourself poked.
[02:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79498 in libjsw "new upstream version 1.5.6" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79498
[02:26] <tepsipakki> filed bug 80981, includes a link to a webfolder
[02:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80981 in gtkpod-aac "a new upstream version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80981
[02:27] <Hobbsee> persia: way cool :)
[02:27] <persia> tepsipakki: Does the new version include any fixes for outstanding bugs in Debian or Ubuntu?  If so, it's a good idea to include these in your changelog.  Also, if there are no bug fixes, it's a good idea to include some rationale explaining why someone should upload it.
[02:28] <persia> Hobbsee: So it can go in?  torcs depends on libjsw, and I just fixed a torcs bug, and I'd rather the builds happened in the appropriate order to use the new fixes.
[02:28] <tepsipakki> well, the current version in feisty crashes immediately, so yes, it does fix _something_ :)
[02:28] <Hobbsee> persia: looking now.
[02:29] <tepsipakki> also, there are some older bugs that this hopefully should fix
[02:29] <persia> tepsipakki: That's a really good reason, but the bug doesn't make it clear.  Take a look at 79498 (above) for an example changelog for a new upstream version that fixes some things.
[02:29] <tepsipakki> hobbsee: it's midnight down under?-)
[02:30] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: 12.30am, yeah.
[02:31] <tepsipakki> persia: http://www.gtkpod.org/news.html
[02:31] <tepsipakki> that's too much to put in debian/changelog :)
[02:32] <tepsipakki> ..but a link might do
[02:32] <tepsipakki> or just the bugfixes
[02:33] <persia> tepsipakki: You don't need that much.  Just New Upstream Version and below - doesn't crash (fixes Ubuntu: #99999), - New Firmware Updater (fixes Ubuntu: #99998).
[02:35] <tepsipakki> yeah, I'll take another look at those crashdumps
[02:37] <persia> tepsipakki: I'd include just the bugfixes that match Ubuntu bugs, and perhaps "support for several iPods" or "tomboy support".  The rest look like normal new upstream features.
[02:38] <tepsipakki> the "normal" gtkpod-0.99.8 is already in feisty
[02:38] <tepsipakki> since mid-December IIRC
[02:38] <tepsipakki> but yes
[02:38] <tepsipakki> this should be a no-brainer, so I'll make the bug look like it
[02:39] <persia> tepsipakki: That's the goal.  Sponsors are busy, and don't like messy changes (see the response to poking above) :)
[02:45] <lritter> hey there
[02:45] <lritter> where can i apply for inclusion requests?
[02:46] <persia> lritter: Inclusion requests?  Inclusion in what?
[02:46] <sladen_> for Nain, or universe?
[02:46] <lritter> what is "nain"?
[02:46] <sladen_> main
[02:46] <lritter> oh ;)
[02:46] <lritter> universe, i suppose
[02:47] <persia> lritter: Are you willing to package it, or do you want someone else to package it?
[02:47] <lritter> it depends
[02:47] <lritter> i would be happy if someone could write the package metafiles for me, and i would pick the work up from there
[02:47] <lritter> but if someone does maintenance, that would be even better
[02:48] <lritter> i tried to do this myself, but i'm an idiot
[02:48] <lritter> and i had trouble with this, and also the feeling that i was not doing it right
[02:48] <lritter> although i was following instructions
[02:48] <lritter> and i feel that this needs someone with experience
[02:49] <lritter> the software i'd like to package is aldrin, libzzub, python-zzub, and llvm 1.9
[02:49] <lritter> regarding llvm, i know that 1.8 is in the repository, but needs to be upgraded
[02:49] <persia> lritter: The easiest way (and least effective) is to register it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates.  If you are willing to package it, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New provides guidance (and links to some guides).
[02:49] <lritter> all other packages are new
[02:50] <lritter> i need people, too ;)
[02:50] <lritter> oh, but, yes i could try it.
[02:50] <lritter> thank you 
[02:51] <lritter> persia: is there also documentation on how to create my own repository?
[02:52] <persia> lritter: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto
[02:59] <xerxas> dholbach,  ? 
[02:59] <xerxas> you there ?
[03:43] <dholbach> xerxas: yes, I'm here
[03:46] <xerxas> dholbach,  what's up ? 
[03:46] <xerxas> can you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4162 
[03:46] <xerxas> it's tapioca-cil 
[03:46] <dholbach> can you drop me a mail with that?
[03:47] <dholbach> i'd very much appreciate if a mono person would review iw
[03:47] <dholbach> it
[03:47] <dholbach> I have no clue about mono packages :-/
[03:47] <xerxas> k
[03:47] <xerxas> I've asked slomo to do it also 
[03:47] <dholbach> giskard, ajmitch_, bhale and slomo are good that kind of stuff
[03:47] <xerxas> giskard is probably the best person for it then 
[03:48] <xerxas> giskard,  ? you there ? 
[03:49] <xerxas> dholbach,  do you still want a mail ? 
[03:49] <xerxas> or you won't review it ? 
[03:49] <dholbach> i'm currently at a conference, but I can review the basics of the package, if you still like
[03:51] <xerxas> I has already been reviewed, but I had some errors 
[03:52] <xerxas> lintian and linda are 0 bytes 
[03:52] <incorrect> does ubuntu patch the kernels or are they straight from kernel.org?
[03:52] <xerxas> I think I'm really close to have a correct package 
[03:52] <zul> incorrect: they are patched
[03:52] <xerxas> dholbach,  maybe I can update the code in the cvs 
[03:52] <xerxas> svn I mean 
[03:52] <xerxas> to the latest one 
[03:53] <xerxas> and change the version 
[03:53] <dholbach> xerxas: which code? which svn?
[03:53] <incorrect> people in #ubuntu don't know the answer, please excuse me questions here
[03:53] <xerxas> the tapioca-sharp code from their upstream svn 
[03:53] <xerxas> dholbach,  I also have a bzr branche for the packaging 
[03:53] <xerxas> incorrect,  apt-get source thekernel 
[03:54] <xerxas> and see if there are some patches
[03:54] <incorrect> but, would i be better off with getting the source from edgy and compiling the 2.6.17 kernel or getting 2.6.19 from kernel.org
[03:54] <incorrect> xerxas, sadly i have sas drives and 2.6.15 doesn't love them
[03:54] <xerxas> sas ? 
[03:54] <crimsun> incorrect: the trees for dapper, edgy, and feisty are on www2.kernel.org/git/
[03:55] <incorrect> oh thanks crimsun 
[03:55] <incorrect> Serial Attached SCSI
[03:56] <white> raphink: hi, are you interested in maintaining biblememorizer for debian (including ubuntu as well) ?
[03:56] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:56] <white> then i do not need to write a mail :)
[03:56] <raphink> sure white
[03:56] <white> great :)
[03:56] <raphink> white: if you're willing to sponsor me
[03:56] <raphink> I can give you a package today
[03:56] <white> i somehow feard this question :)
[03:57] <xerxas> hey bddebian  
[03:57] <bddebian> Hello xerxas
[03:57] <xerxas> bddebian, would you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4162 , please 
[03:57] <xerxas> ? 
[03:57] <raphink> white: heh, I'm not a Debian dev (yet at least)
[03:57] <raphink> white: let's bring that to PM
[03:57] <white> raphink: this is a question of time i reckon ;)
[03:57] <white> raphink: can you write an ITP? :)
[03:59] <white> raphink: if you can write an ITP and send me the path to the .dsc file in a query, i will try to look into it around tonight and give you feedback, if that is ok with you
[03:59] <raphink> white: did you look at the package I've put in Ubuntu already?
[04:00] <white> raphink: yes it came on my radar as it was recently added :)
[04:00] <raphink> it will be the same - except with -1 instead of -0ubuntu1
[04:00] <raphink> so just check this one
[04:01] <giskard> xerxas, pong
[04:01] <giskard> :)
[04:01] <xerxas> giskard,  tapioca-cil uploaded to review 
[04:02] <xerxas> giskard,  for telepathy-cil , I created a bug because dll files are executable 
[04:02] <xerxas> I know how to fix that 
[04:02] <xerxas> :)
[04:02] <giskard> ok, where i can find the packages?
[04:02] <giskard> package*
[04:02] <xerxas> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4162
[04:04] <giskard> xerxas, ubuntu1 is the fixed package?
[04:04] <bddebian> crimsun: Did you get too busy for me? :-(
[04:04] <xerxas> giskard,  ? 
[04:05] <xerxas> it should be 0 ? 
[04:05] <crimsun> bddebian: s/busy/ill/, but yeah. Sorry.
[04:05] <giskard> nono :) 
[04:05] <bddebian> crimsun: Ugh, sorry to hear that
[04:05] <giskard> xerxas, i'm talking about the dll bug
[04:06] <xerxas> giskard,  ahh , maybe I recall wrong 
[04:06] <xerxas> It was an error from mine 
[04:07] <xerxas> # dpkg -S NDesk.DBus.dll
[04:07] <xerxas> banshee: /usr/lib/banshee/NDesk.DBus.dll
[04:07] <xerxas> f-spot: /usr/lib/f-spot/NDesk.DBus.dll
[04:07] <xerxas> libtelepathy-cil: /usr/lib/telepathy-sharp/NDesk.DBus.dll
[04:07] <xerxas> is that normal ? 
[04:07] <xerxas> can't we package NDesk.DBus.dll ? 
[04:07] <giskard> no
[04:08] <giskard> as alp (upstream) asked us to not package Ndbus-sharp
[04:09] <xerxas> ok 
[04:10] <xerxas> giskard: Version: 0.0.svn.20061115-0ubuntu1 
[04:10] <xerxas> # ls -l /usr/lib/telepathy-sharp
[04:10] <xerxas> total 76
[04:10] <xerxas> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 25088 2006-11-16 03:18 INdT.Telepathy.dll
[04:10] <xerxas> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 48128 2006-11-16 03:18 NDesk.DBus.dll
[04:11] <giskard> ?
[04:12] <xerxas> those dlls aren't suppose to be executable 
[04:13] <xerxas> you need to put a install/libtelepathy-cil::
[04:13] <crimsun> siretart: any opinions on adding libpulse-dev to xine-lib's build-dependencies?
[04:13] <xerxas>  find debian/ -type f -name "*.dll" -or -name "*.mdb" -or -name "*.cs" -or -name "*.config" | xargs chmod -x
[04:13] <xerxas> in debian/rules
[04:15] <giskard> xerxas, yes.
[04:15] <giskard> crimsun, what did Debian for it?
[04:16] <xerxas> giskard,  are you reviewing my package? 
[04:16] <giskard> xerxas, rebuildint it right now
[04:16] <xerxas> ok 
[04:16] <xerxas> great 
[04:17] <giskard> i have some questions for you: ) why you didn't run autogen.sh before tar czf the package?
[04:17] <giskard> i guess we need to depend on autoconf/automake, i'm wrong?
[04:17] <crimsun> giskard: meaning for libpulse-dev and xine-lib? It's not listed as a build-dependency in unstable's dsc, at least.
[04:18] <crimsun> giskard: which makes sense, since only 1.1.3 added pulse support, and pulseaudio was only recently promoted to Ubuntu main
[04:19] <bddebian> Can GNU/Linux actually run .dlls?
[04:20] <Lathiat> .NET dlls, yes
[04:20] <Lathiat> through mono
[04:20] <xerxas> giskard,  ahh , yeah , right
[04:21] <giskard> crimsun, right! and I guess you can enable it as ubuntu ships 1.1.3 :)
[04:21] <xerxas> giskard,  I didn't wanted to run autogen.sh before so that I'm the closer I can from the source tree 
[04:21] <xerxas> is it a bad idea ? 
[04:22] <giskard> xerxas, i don't know, and i don't know if there is a policy about this issue, i prefer to run autogen.sh before.
[04:22] <xerxas> ok 
[04:22] <bddebian> Lathiat: Ah, thx
[04:22] <asimon> A question regarding naming. I am packaging  YAZ++ (1.0.0), a C++ binding for libyaz2. The actual library which gets build is called libyazpp.so.1.0.0. So, should the package name be libyaz++1 or libyazpp1 ? Thanks.
[04:23] <giskard> libyazpp1 :) ihmo
[04:24] <xerxas> giskard, anyway, if it build in a pbuilder without the autogen dependency and it works, I don't need to add autogen as dependency 
[04:24] <xerxas> right ?
[04:24] <xerxas> sudo pbuilder build my.dsc installs autogen 
[04:25] <giskard> autogen != autogen.sh
[04:25] <bddebian> asimon: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html#sonameapiabi
[04:25] <xerxas> giskard,  right :) 
[04:25] <asimon> bddebian: Thank you :)
[04:26] <bddebian> NP
[04:26] <xerxas> giskard,  do you want me to correct sth ? 
[04:26] <xerxas> it work like this 
[04:26] <xerxas> autgen.sh calls gnome-autogen.sh 
[04:26] <xerxas> $ apt-file  search gnome-autogen.sh
[04:26] <xerxas> gnome-common: usr/bin/gnome-autogen.sh
[04:26] <xerxas> and I depend on gnome-common anyway 
[04:26] <bddebian> Heya dholbach
[04:27] <giskard> xerxas, take a look on gnome-common Deps
[04:27] <xerxas> ok 
[04:27] <xerxas> giskard,  so it's ok then , right ? 
[04:27] <giskard> yes.
[04:27] <xerxas> I just prefer not to run autogen.sh in the source tree so it's easier to update to the latest svn version 
[04:28] <xerxas> but I learnt I can still run autogen.sh in the source tree, that's right 
[04:29] <giskard> hi ogra 
[04:30] <ogra> hey
[04:30] <Kano> hi, could someone update xine-ui to the one from sid?
[04:31] <Kano> dr keybindings are missing in feisty one and there are 2 menu entries for it
[04:31] <Kano> vdr keybindings are missing in feisty one and there are 2 menu entries for it
[04:31] <xerxas> bddebian,  thanks for the review 
[04:31] <xerxas> how do I fix : E: libtapioca-cil: description-synopsis-is-duplicated 
[04:32] <xerxas> is it this : 
[04:32] <xerxas> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, ${cli:Depends}
[04:32] <xerxas> Description: tapioca bindings for c#
[04:32] <xerxas>  tapioca bindings for c#
[04:32] <xerxas> in the control file ? 
[04:32] <zul> when is the meeting again?
[04:33] <ScottK> Is there a MOTU other than bddebia available for REVU?  I have two packages looking for a 2nd advocate: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4115 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4127
[04:33] <Kano> used pbuilder on feisty with sid package, no problem at all, please add
[04:33] <bddebian> xerxas: No, the Long description in debian/control shouldn't be the same as the Description feild
[04:33] <xerxas> ok 
[04:36] <ScottK> BTW, good morning bddebian!
[04:37] <jdong> Kano: you say it builds fine in feisty pbuilder?
[04:38] <bddebian> Heya ScottK :)
[04:38] <Kano> jdong: yes
[04:38] <jdong> Kano: filing a "sync request" https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xine-ui/+filebug indicating you want the Sid version and that it built fine in pbuilder would get the ball rolling
[04:38] <Kano> building vdr for it
[04:39] <Kano> just fixed xinelibout
[04:39] <jdong> then just need some +1's from MOTU Media team and others
[04:39] <bddebian> jdong: Did crimsun already take care of the rest of your changes?
[04:39] <Kano> without xinelibout vdr is pretty useless
[04:39] <Kano> for budget cards
[04:39] <jdong> bddebian: yes
[04:40] <jdong> bddebian: there's still one FTBFS I'm scratching my head at :)
[04:40] <bddebian> OK, thx
[04:41] <jdong> bddebian: are you suited to deal with the request from Kano?
[04:41] <bddebian> Probably not :)
[04:41] <jdong> hehe
[04:41] <jdong> bddebian: why do I feel queasy about touching media stuff now?
[04:41] <bddebian> Heh, I know that feeling :)
[04:43] <afflux> is there any special reason why we have a libenet-dev package and no library itself?
[04:43] <jdong> !libenet-dev
[04:43] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about libenet-dev - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[04:43] <jdong> that's what my apt-cache said too....
[04:44] <afflux> it's in feisty. http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/libdevel/libenet-dev
[04:45] <afflux> if a library package produces only a .a file, it's not a library package, right?
[04:47] <jdong> afflux: oh yeah, it's designed only to be statically linked to, right?
[04:47] <jdong> afflux: sorta like how x264 is done.
[04:47] <afflux> might be correct. I just created a .so file by modifying the source slightly. upload it?
[04:48] <afflux> if yes, should I take the source from the debian guys or should I get a clean one from the web?
[04:49] <afflux> eh... forget what I just said please. there is no point in it.
[04:50] <jdong> afflux: if you created a .so file it's a better idea to make a real libenet package then...
[04:51] <xerxas> bddebian,  giskard, I have uploaded a new version with a more detailed long description in debian/control 
[04:52] <xerxas> I will soon appear on revu 
[04:57] <xerxas> bddebian,  it's in there ! 
[04:57] <xerxas> can you advocate ? 
[04:57] <xerxas> giskard,  the same ! :)
[04:58] <giskard> i will upload it today
[05:01] <xerxas> giskard,  ok , thanks ! 
[05:01] <xerxas> :)
[05:01] <xerxas> gone !
[05:03] <Kano> btw. mc does not work right with ubuntu
[05:03] <Kano> did someone change it
[05:04] <givre> Hello guys
[05:06] <givre> If any motu in good mood could have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4166 that's could be great. Thanks.
[05:07] <keescook> mornin'
[05:08] <givre> morning keescook
[05:08] <keescook> hiya givre
[05:08] <bddebian> Heya keescook
[05:09] <keescook> hi bddebian
[05:40] <thenetduck> does anyone know what programs are going to be included in ubuntu stuido ? 
[05:42] <rexbron> thenetduck: see wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
[05:42] <rexbron> and look at the metapackage page
[05:42] <thenetduck> ok
[05:43] <rexbron> bddebian: Would you have time to review soma and murrine? upid 4150 and 4149
[05:44] <thenetduck> rexbron, do you know a little bit about Ubuntu Studios? 
[05:44] <rexbron> yes, I am on the packaging team
[05:44] <thenetduck> great!
[05:44] <rexbron> hop on #ubuntustudio
[05:44] <thenetduck> rexbron, would it be bad to talk on this page? 
[05:44] <rexbron> nope, just OT
[05:45] <rexbron> and there is another channel
[05:47] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:47] <rexbron> LaserJock: Would you have time to review soma and murrine? upid 4150 and 4149
[05:48] <bddebian> rexbron: Last time I did murrine I got in trouble :)
[05:48] <rexbron> really?
[05:48] <rexbron> Crimsun oked it, but it got rejected due to a licence mismatch
[05:48] <LaserJock> rexbron: I don't have time right now. sorry
[05:48] <rexbron> LaserJock: np
[05:49] <rexbron> bddebian: crimsun is really busy as far as I can tell
[05:49] <rexbron> the licening issues were fixed from upstream
[05:49] <bddebian> OK
[05:59] <christopherl> Im on Ubuntu 6.10 with Gnome 2.16.1. How can I remove all tooltips in Gnome? I've tried almost everything and asked alot of people, but I don't find any solution.
[05:59] <Toadstool> heya everybody
[06:00] <somerville32> christopherl, Have you consider the possibility that you can't? lol
[06:01] <LaserJock> christopherl: also, have you asked Gnome?
[06:01] <christopherl> it's a computer all things can be done
[06:02] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[06:02] <christopherl> I asked in gnome Irc channel, nobody knows
[06:02] <Toadstool> hey bddebian 
[06:03] <LaserJock> somerville32: generally -devel is the place to find core-devs
[06:04] <Mez> sorry sru team
[06:04] <christopherl> what are the tooltips used for, it doesn't provide anything??
[06:05] <cypher1> LaserJock, hi
[06:09] <LaserJock> christopherl: I don't even know what you're talking about really and this isn't a gnome channel :/
[06:09] <LaserJock> christopherl: you really should talk to the Gnome devs if you have a problem specific to Gnome
[06:10] <Toadstool> christopherl: perhaps you can disable notification-daemon, never tried though
[06:11] <christopherl> Toadstool: where do I disable that?
[06:11] <Toadstool> no idea
[06:11] <somerville32> sudo apt-get remove notification-daemon? lol
[06:12] <Toadstool> christopherl: you should ask on #ubuntu or on a gnome channel
[06:12] <christopherl> I have
[06:19] <siretart> crimsun: if it is in main, sure!
[06:19] <bddebian> siretart: !
[06:19] <siretart> bddebian: !! :)
[06:19] <bddebian> :-)
[06:19] <bddebian> siretart: Wanna review a package for me? :)
[06:23] <cypher1> is not qtella available in any repositories ?
[06:23] <somerville32> !find qtella
[06:23] <siretart> bddebian: sorry, I'm not at home right now
[06:24] <ubotu> Package/file qtella does not exist in edgy
[06:24] <bddebian> Gah, I get no love :-)
[06:24] <cypher1> somerville32, seems like ubuntu does not have qtella
[06:29] <bddebian> :-)
[06:29] <bddebian> ScottK: So stop whining, I can't even get MY packages reviewed ;-P
[06:30] <luks> if I'd like to get a new version of some package uploaded, what's the best way to do it?
[06:30] <luks> is uploading such packages to REVU a "standard" way?
[06:31] <luks> or should I rather just file a bug against the package?
[06:35] <geser> bddebian: isn't hotplug dead? so why installing files for hotplug?
[06:36] <bddebian> geser: Yeah, I should rip those out
[06:37] <geser> bddebian: wouldn't it be better to name the dev package libticables2-dev?
[06:37] <bddebian> Why?
[06:37] <geser> you wouldn't need to modify libticables3-dev to conflict with it
[06:38] <geser> in most cases you don't need the soname in the -dev package name
[06:38] <bddebian> So they don't have to be consistent?
[06:38] <somerville32> rexbron, ok
[06:38] <rexbron> cool
[06:39] <somerville32> rexbron, Tell me about this makefile
[06:39] <somerville32> It is auto-generated, right?
[06:39] <geser> bddebian: no, see http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html#id271662
[06:39] <rexbron> somerville32: I have not touched the make file
[06:39] <rexbron> so I would guess so
[06:40] <geser> the most -dev packages have no soname in the name, as you usually what to build against the last version of the library
[06:40] <bddebian> OK
[06:41] <rexbron> bddebian: Would the ffmpeg copyright be nessicary even tough we are not using the source provided (the package uses the ffmpeg libraries provided by ubuntu)
[06:42] <bddebian> rexbron: Unfortunately I don't know.  Licensing/copyright crap is my weakest link :-(
[06:42] <rexbron> bddebian: also, are you using the latest upload, as revu does not list anything wrong with lintain or linda
[06:45] <bddebian> rexbron: Yeah afaict it's the latest. But I'm building on Edgy so maybe it's a linda/lintian thing
[06:45] <rexbron> maybe
[06:45] <rexbron> bddebian: who would be a good contact on the copyright thing
[06:46] <bddebian> rexbron: Anyone better than me :-)
[06:46] <bddebian> geser: See anything else wrong?
[06:49] <rexbron> bddebian: I will run the licence by crimsun (if he ever gets time)
[06:50] <bddebian> rexbron: OK, sorry :-(
[06:50] <rexbron> bddebian: Thank you for taking the time of actually looking at my work
[06:51] <rexbron> I appreciate it
[06:56] <geser> bddebian: I'd name the source package only libticables2 so you don't have to rename the source package once the soname changes
[06:59] <geser> bddebian: it looks like the udev-files are now directly installed into /etc/udev/rules.d/ (no symlink anymore)
[07:01] <geser> bddebian: and the number for the udev rules file is wrong, see /etc/udev/rules.d/README for the numbering scheme
[07:02] <bddebian> geser: OK, thx
[07:04] <geser> bddebian: once you remove the hotplug part from the udev file it can be installed as 45-libticables.rules
[07:05] <geser> bddebian: why are you creating a debian/dirs file which is removed in the clean target?
[07:07] <bddebian> That's a damn fine question.  I "borrowed" this debian crap from libticables3 ;-P
[07:08] <geser> bddebian:  dh_installdocs automatically installs debian/copyright if it exists. 
[07:08] <bddebian> geser: It wasn't doing it
[07:08] <bddebian> But I think I know why
[07:09] <nukeDev> Hello all
[07:10] <bddebian> Hello nukeDev
[07:10] <geser> bddebian: and you could set yourself as maintainer :)
[07:11] <bddebian> I really don't want to :)
[07:11] <nukeDev> what do MOU actually do?
[07:11] <bddebian> geser: Don't we have a generic MOTU maintainer yet? :)
[07:11] <bddebian> nukeDev: We maintain the packages in the Universe and Multiverse repositories
[07:11] <bddebian> Or at least try to
[07:12] <geser> even the MOTU maintainer would be better as Debian's QA group
[07:12] <nukeDev> so when i type apt-get in the terminal and get a file from the universe or the multiverse it is you lot that have put it there and 'maintained' it?
[07:13] <tsmithe> is anyone free for revu?
[07:14] <bddebian> nukeDev: More or less, yes
[07:14] <nukeDev> Cool
[07:14] <bddebian> tsmithe: Which package?
[07:14] <tsmithe> bddebian, asoundconf-gtk please if you could
[07:14] <bddebian> geser: What is the MOTU maintainer info?
[07:15] <bddebian> geser: And apparently he's doing the .dirs file for linux for the hotplug/udev stuff.  What's the better way to do that?
[07:15] <geser> bddebian: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
[07:16] <bddebian> geser: Great, thanks
[07:18] <geser> bddebian: you could add "etc/udev/rules.d" to debian/dirs and remove it on ! linux
[07:19] <geser> or call dh_installdirs only on linux
[07:24] <geser> bddebian: once again the udev file: BUS is now SUBSYSTEMS and I don't know if you need "usb" or "usb_device"
[07:27] <geser> bddebian: for libticonv2: E: libticonv2 source: version-substvar-for-external-package libticonv2-dev -> libticonv
[07:30] <geser> bddebian: do you know if the .la files should still be installed? IIRC Debian will get rid of them
[07:31] <geser> and you are provided .pc files
[07:32] <givre> bddebian: manpage done -> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4171 Thanks for the review :)
[07:33] <AnAnt> bddebian: hello
[07:35] <AnAnt> ping bddebian 
[07:35] <bddebian> geser: Yeah, I don't think the .la files should be installed anymore
[07:35] <bddebian> AnAnt: Yo
[07:36] <AnAnt> bddebian: about tss
[07:37] <AnAnt> bddebian: setuid is needed for the lock feature to work
[07:37] <bddebian> AnAnt: I know, you have told me that.  No worries
[07:37] <AnAnt> bddebian: ok, thanks
[07:37] <AnAnt> bddebian: oh btw, Hide !
[07:37] <bddebian> heh
[07:38] <AnAnt> as for archmage I didn't know that someone finally succeeded to get it into Debian
[07:38] <AnAnt> so I sent my diff to him, that would be better I think
[07:38] <bddebian> Aye
[07:41] <bddebian> geser: I'm talking to upstream about libticonv2, it has some issues, but thanks!
[07:46] <bddebian> Lutin: Hi.  Was aptoncd rejected last time??
[07:47] <Lutin> bddebian: you mean kayali ?
[07:47] <bddebian> Fruck, yeah, sorry
[07:48] <Lutin> yeah, waq rejected because there was a missing license in two files in the orig tarball
[07:48] <bddebian> Ahh, OK
[07:48] <Lutin> pexpect.py and antlr.py
[07:48] <Lutin> sorry, gotta go
[07:48] <Lutin> thanks for your review :)
[07:49] <bddebian> NP
[08:02] <zul> probably sleeping
[08:16] <bddebian> geser: If you get a free minute can you check out my updated libticables2?
[08:25] <Toadstool> grah! I won't be able to make it to the MOTU meeting :/ I have a work meeting in 5 minutes and it'll probably last more than 1 hour...
[08:27] <somerville32> OH crap
[08:27] <somerville32> Thats today isn't it
[08:28] <geser> somerville32: yes, in 30 minutes
[08:29] <somerville32> I'll be there
[08:29] <somerville32> :)
[08:30] <tsmithe> what happens at motu meetings? what's on the agenda?
[08:35] <keescook> crimsun: are you around?  Any chance you could prepare acroread 7.0.9 for edgy?
[08:35] <ajmitch> tsmithe: that won't happen at this meeting
[08:35] <ajmitch> hey keescook 
[08:35] <keescook> hiya ajmitch!
[08:35] <tsmithe> ajmitch, i know :P
[08:35] <keescook> I'm still catching up from being at LCA; is the MOTU meeting today (in 25 min) or was it yesterday?
[08:35] <tsmithe> keescook, he's away (work) it seems
[08:35] <tsmithe> keescook, today
[08:36] <keescook> tsmithe: *nod* I suspected.  :)
[08:36] <tsmithe> oolcay
[08:36] <ajmitch> keescook: you were at LCA?
[08:36] <ajmitch> how was it this year?
[08:36] <keescook> ajmitch: I was, yes.  It was great fun, though I spent more time exploring Sydney than hanging out at LCA.  :)
[08:37] <StevenK> That could take a while. :-P
[08:43] <zul> damn should have remembered to make a initrd
[08:43] <LaserJock> are we having the meeting in here or #ubuntu-meeting?
[08:44] <zul> well the tradional place is in -meeting
[08:44] <ajmitch> sigh, meetings
[08:45] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[08:45] <LaserJock> zul: but MOTU meetings tend to be last minute and not on the #ubuntu-meeting schedule ;-)
[08:45] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yep, I just got out of a 2 hrs one
[08:45] <zul> LaserJock: its in the topic for #ubuntu-meeting
[08:45] <LaserJock> zul: ok, cool
[08:45] <Adri2000> I'm upgrading a package to a newer upstream version, debhelper compat and version is at 4, should I bump it to 5 or it's not necessary?
[08:46] <geser> bddebian: ./etc/udev/45-libticables.rules <- you are missing the rules.d directory
[08:46] <geser> and check the postinst for libticables2-1
[08:47] <LaserJock> Adri2000: is it in Debian?
[08:47] <geser> dito for the postrm
[08:47] <Adri2000> LaserJock: yes, but not up to date and there is a bug in malone for a new upstream version
[08:48] <LaserJock> Adri2000: is the bug also filed in Debian?
[08:50] <Adri2000> LaserJock: no but I'm not sure if there is still a maintainer for this package... 10 outstanding bugs for 1, 2 and even 3 years
[08:50] <LaserJock> Adri2000: what package?
[08:50] <Adri2000> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=hardware-monitor;dist=unstable
[08:50] <LaserJock> oh, Sven Luther
[08:50] <ajmitch> sometimes the maintainer can just have more important things to fix :)
[08:50] <ajmitch> oh dear
[08:50] <ajmitch> run away
[08:51] <ajmitch> run away now
[08:51] <LaserJock> ajmitch: did he get kicked out yet?
[08:51] <zul> oh he isnt that bad
[08:51] <ajmitch> LaserJock: no, he's still too busy arguing
[08:51] <zul> ajmitch: i find him to be quite "friendly"
[08:51] <ajmitch> hah
[08:51] <LaserJock> who got kicked out not long ago?
[08:52] <ajmitch> krooger
[08:52] <ajmitch> ted walther
[08:53] <StevenK> He didn't get booted, if I recall
[08:53] <LaserJock> was he the one that was sent home from Debconf?
[08:53] <StevenK> LaserJock: Yup
[08:53] <LaserJock> does Debian have a list of "ex" DDs?
[08:53] <ajmitch> StevenK: oh?
[08:53] <StevenK> There is a list of Emeritus DDs
[08:54] <zul> http://www.debian.org/vote/2006/platforms/krooger
[08:54] <ajmitch> StevenK: it's hard to recall if people were booted or resigned
[08:54] <StevenK> Indeed
[08:54] <ajmitch> heh
[08:55] <Adri2000> ok, so what should I do?
[08:56] <Adri2000> also, I find debian/dirs a bit strange, I think it's useless, if so can I remove it?
[08:57] <Adri2000> and for Standards-Version: 3.5.9, bump to 3.7.2?
[09:00] <bddebian> geser: Sorry, was away.  You mean it should be in /etc/udev/rules.d/foo ?
[09:00] <geser> yes
[09:00] <bddebian> Gah, OK thx
[09:01] <persia> bddebian: dh_installudev might help (or I could have no context).
[09:01] <LaserJock> Adri2000: generally we do as little to Debian packages as possible
[09:01] <sistpoty> hi folks
[09:02] <LaserJock> Adri2000: go ahead and fix stuff (make sure you are right) and then send it upsteam when you're done
[09:02] <Adri2000> LaserJock: upstream being debian I guess, but is the maintainer still active?
[09:03] <LaserJock> Adri2000: well, that kinda depends on the definition of "active"
[09:03] <LaserJock> he's still a DD and is "active" in discussions
[09:03] <LaserJock> but the fact remains that he needs to be aware of what we are doing
[09:03] <LaserJock> maintianing divergence is a pain
[09:04] <ajmitch> hi sistpoty 
[09:04] <bddebian> persia: You are probably right :)
[09:04] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[09:04] <bddebian> Heya again sistpoty
[09:04] <sistpoty> hi bddebian
[09:05] <Adri2000> LaserJock: ok, I will send a bug report for the new upstream release with the list of changes I have done in ubuntu
[09:05] <ajmitch> MOTU meeting now on in #ubuntu-meeting
[09:05] <ScottK> Is it OK for non-MOTUs to speak in MOTU meetings?
[09:05] <sistpoty> ScottK: sure
[09:05] <ScottK> Thanks.
[09:06] <bddebian> ScottK: No way man, it's top secret shit ;-P
[09:09] <geser> bddebian: I've left a comment on revu for you
[09:09] <bddebian> geser: Uh oh :-)
[09:10] <bddebian> geser: Thanks for your time.. I suck at library packages :-(
[09:25] <ScottK> tsmithe: You're working on maintaining also stuff, right?
[09:25] <tsmithe> yeah
[09:26] <ScottK> If you want a guinea pig, I've got two identical laptops that had sound working fine in Dapper and nothing in Edgy.  I'd be glad to test/troubleshoot.
[09:26] <tsmithe> ok
[09:26] <tsmithe> filed a bug report? ;)
[09:26] <ScottK> Of course not.
[09:26] <ScottK> I'll do that first...
[09:27] <tsmithe> and link me :)
[09:27] <ScottK> Sure.
[09:27] <tsmithe> and make sure to attach what's listed at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/42718/comments/11
[09:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42718 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Sound capture on Thinkpad T20, T21, T22 not working" [Low,Needs info]  
[09:28] <tsmithe> stupid Ubugtu
[09:46] <jdong> Mez / crimsun: If I prepare a few source-changed backports would you guys be willing to sponsor them to edgy/dapper-backports? (only changes being undoing the renaming of some build-deps)
[09:51] <jdong> and oh yeah, Mez, when/what do you want done before bug 72725 can go thru?
[09:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72725 in edgy-backports "Backport prevu" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/72725
[10:09] <tsmithe> ScottK, how's this bug?
[10:14] <ScottK> Just finished uploading all the stuff you asked for.
[10:15] <tsmithe> ah cool :)
[10:15] <ScottK> Bug#81030
[10:15] <ScottK> Was about to add you to it.
[10:15] <tsmithe> bug 81030
[10:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81030 in Ubuntu "Dell Latitude L400 has no sound after upgrade from Dapper to Edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81030
[10:15] <tsmithe> ScottK, no need :) i get bug mails anyway :P
[10:16] <ScottK> OK.
[10:16] <ScottK> Well, there you go then.
[10:16] <tsmithe> ScottK, what kernel are you running? `uname -r` s'il te plait
[10:17] <ScottK> Just a sec.  I'm not on that machine, but it's whatever is current for Edgy.
[10:17] <tsmithe> ok
[10:17] <tsmithe> i'll get it myself :)
[10:17] <ScottK> 2.6.17-10-generic
[10:17] <tsmithe> ah thanks
[10:17] <tsmithe> saves me some work :P
[10:18] <ScottK> You should add that to the list of stuff you ask for...
[10:18] <ScottK> BTW, I think that bug comment you pointed me at should be in the wiki somewhere if it's not...
[10:19] <tsmithe> yeah
[10:19] <LaserJock> persia: you around?
[10:19] <tsmithe> DebuggingALSA (a variation on the theme of DebuggingACPI)
[10:19] <persia> LaserJock: Yep.
[10:19] <tsmithe> ScottK, let's take this to #ubuntu-bugs
[10:19] <persia> LaserJock: I presume it's about my draft procedures document?
[10:20] <LaserJock> persia: I appreciate the work on the MOTU/Launchpad/Guide wiki page but I think we should be working on individual processes
[10:20] <persia> LaserJock: Is there any start on that?  I'd like to help.
[10:21] <LaserJock> well, yes, there is a start
[10:21] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes is the names space where I think we should be doing this
[10:22] <persia> LaserJock: OK.  And there should be a separate document for each process, explaining all the roles, and who does what when, and the decision tree?  Much of the information seems available for gleaning from other parts of MOTU/.
[10:22] <LaserJock> yes
[10:23] <LaserJock> I want to make the MOTU wiki pages more compact/organized/updated
[10:23] <persia> LaserJock: Was my draft roughly on target?  If so, I'll proceed to collect information from the Wiki, editorialise, and add pages in that namespace.
[10:26] <LaserJock> persia: it looks good, I think SRU is the only process that has a specific policy/worflow nailed down so I wouldn't mess with that right away
[10:27] <LaserJock> but other processes should be documented and if needed have policy statements as SRU does
[10:27] <persia> LaserJock: SRU seemed to be both contentious and contradicted from my Wiki browsings (which is why I skipped it).
[10:27] <ScottK> Now that the MOTU meeting is over, if any MOTU has time for reviewing... I have two packages looking for a 2nd advocate: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4115 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4127
[10:28] <LaserJock> persia: yep, and we just reworked it :-)
[10:29] <LaserJock> persia: we have over 100 wiki pages in MOTU
[10:29] <LaserJock> we need to clean it up
[10:29] <LaserJock> if you want to help out there it would be greatly appreciated
[10:30] <persia> LaserJock: OK.  So page structure consists of the following outline, initially to be added below the current text: 1. Policy Statemets,   2.  Procedures (2a, 2b, 2c...),  3. Draft policies (need approval by MOTU meeting or MC) 3a patching, 3b, SRU, 3c, SYNC, 3d, DROP, 3e, etc., 4. Draft Procedures...
[10:32] <LaserJock> persia: gimme a sec
[10:38] <LaserJock> persia: ok, I created a new cateogry on the wiki CategoryMotuCleanup
[10:39] <LaserJock> persia: what I think we should do is go through the MOTU wiki and add that category to any wiki page that needs updating, fixing, etc.
[10:40] <LaserJock> initially pretty much everything will be in there
[10:40] <persia> LaserJock: So rather than write the procedures, you're asking that I first mark all the old/outdated pages in Category MOTU as Category MOTUCleanup?
[10:40] <LaserJock> well, we'll need a bit of both
[10:42] <persia> persia: I'd rather start writing procedures, and only after the drafts are considered acceptable by at least a couple of MOTUs begin replacing the current material (although I agree it needs much work).  What do you think of setting MOTUCleanup on those pages that are believed to be replaced as a start, and then marking the rest once the body has migrated?
[10:42] <LaserJock> persia: for your immediate goal of getting procedures or "best practices" on the wiki I don't think you need to ad them to a cleanup category
[10:43] <LaserJock> persia: I did create the MOTU/Sandbox/ namespace for drafts
[10:43] <LaserJock> you might want to use that
[10:43] <LaserJock> I hate having old wiki pages that we have to delete or redirect
[10:44] <persia> LaserJock: OK.  I'll start with adding to MOTU/Sandbox, and then start looking at cleanup.  All the equipment in my MDF is being replaced today, so there will likely be a gap between when I start and when I get more done.
[10:44] <LaserJock> persia: no problem. any help is appreciated. I made a push to get rid of a bunch of our old stuff
[10:44] <LaserJock> but I haven't had time to fix the current stuff
[10:44] <LaserJock> or move the structure around better
[10:44] <persia> LaserJock: Can the pages be renamed?  I'm not sure that creation of MOTU/Sandbox/foo is desireable, if it later needs to be MOTU/Processes/foo.
[10:45] <persia> LaserJock: time is what I currently have.  Soon enough I will have none, so I'm happy to help now.
[10:45] <LaserJock> well, they can be renamed, but you can also just move the contents
[10:45] <LaserJock> I want to be able to delete MOTU/Sandbox/foo once we are done drafting
[10:46] <LaserJock> what seems to happen is people draft in MOTU/foo and then when it's done we realize it should go in MOTU/bar/foo
[10:46] <persia> LaserJock: Ah, so I should add all the draft pages as sections in MOTU/Sandbox, for placement as new pages once they have passed first review?
[10:46] <LaserJock> and so we have to put in a redirect or delete
[10:46] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:46] <persia> LaserJock: Got it.  I can work with that.
[10:47] <LaserJock> sometimes there is discussion as to where to put it too
[10:47] <LaserJock> and putting it in the sandbox provides a neutral territory to draft
[10:48] <persia> LaserJock: Sounds like each section deserves a discussion subsection.
[10:59] <bddebian> geser: Still aboot?
[10:59] <geser> yes
[11:00] <bddebian> geser: I can probably delete .postrm entirely eh?
[11:00] <geser> yes
[11:03] <bddebian> geser: You're my new hero btw :)
[11:04] <geser> bddebian: I've looked into the postrm, it also contains a call to ldconfig (added by dh_makeshlibs)
[11:04] <geser> and I don't know if a postrm will be created if you remove it from /debian
[11:05] <bddebian> Gah, I just deleted it :-(
[11:08] <persia> geser: bddebian: If no .postrm exists, and dh_foo wants to add stuff, a .postrm will be created automatically.
[11:08] <ScottK> persia: Would you mind looking at the patch in bug 79683 to see if looks correctly formed?
[11:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79683 in libspf2 "spfquery: conflict with libmail-spf-query-perl Debian bug#306875" [Unknown,Unknown]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79683
[11:08] <bddebian> persia: Ah, thx
[11:09] <persia> bddebian: NP.
[11:11] <persia> ScottK: When you change many files for the same thing, you might want just one changelog line (e.g. update-alternatives support (rules, postinst, prerm).  Also, when a bug is fixed, often (closes: 306875) is appended to the line in the changelog that fixes it.
[11:11] <ScottK> That's right, you told me that before - about the closes... going on the end (slaps forehead).
[11:13] <ajmitch> bddebian: 1 month to do reviewing
[11:13] <bddebian> geser: New version up if you get bored :-)
[11:13] <bddebian> ajmitch: ??
[11:13] <ajmitch> & then the whip comes down for qa & bugfixing
[11:13] <ajmitch> bddebian: you were at the meeting
[11:13] <persia> ScottK: Other than that, it looks OK to me from brief visual inspection.  You probably want to make sure it applies cleanly (apt-get source foo; patch -p0 < patch).  I also think there should be a dh_alternatives :)
[11:14] <ScottK> I did apply the patch and it applied cleanly with -p0 <.  I'll look at alternatives.  Thanks
[11:15] <persia> ScottK: Sorry for the confusion, as far as I know, dh_alternatives doesn't exist.  I just think it should.
[11:15] <ScottK> Ah OK.
[11:15] <ScottK> Thanks.
[11:17] <bddebian> ajmitch: Oh aye
[11:26] <_MMA_> Hi guys. muzzol and I are trying to work out the sticky licensing issues with Cinelerra-CV. Is there anyone here atm who would like to give us a hand?
[11:42] <LaserJock> _MMA_: lots of volunteers
[11:42] <_MMA_> I know. :)
[11:43] <muzzol> so...
[11:43] <Toadstool> uhuh... QA?! What's that? :)
[11:45] <ajmitch> Toadstool: something scary
[11:45] <Toadstool> and you're the one with the whip?
[11:45] <ajmitch> seems like it got handed to me
[11:45] <ajmitch> I'll delegate :)
[11:45] <Toadstool> sounds even scarier :)
[11:47] <ajmitch> of course
[11:49] <sistpoty> any native speaker, who'd like to proofread the minutes?
[11:50] <sistpoty> (I've added them to the wiki, so please correct errors you'll find)
[11:51] <Adri2000> sistpoty: wrong date: MOTU/Meetings/2007-01-21, should be 22
[11:52] <sistpoty> Adri2000: thx, I'll fix it
[11:54] <sistpoty> Adri2000: fixed
[12:06] <LaserJock> ajmitch: do you have a lp team for MOTU QA?
[12:08] <sistpoty> ok, universe release schedule is set in stone on the wiki :)
[12:09] <LaserJock> excellent!