[12:25] <PriceChild> somerville32, yeah... we kind of had a HUGE thing this weekend which put everything else on hold
[12:26] <somerville32> Whats going on this weekend?
[12:26] <LjL> PriceChild: what are these issues anyway?
[12:26] <PriceChild> LjL, forums and wiki aren't compatible.... wiki is meant to be changing license...
[12:26] <PriceChild> Will help us move guides etc.
[12:27] <PriceChild> somerville32, we had basically a troll attack by the guys at modfree
[12:27] <PriceChild> oh and arnieboy issues
[12:27] <somerville32> PriceChild, Do elaborate
[12:27] <somerville32> What is "modfree"?
[12:28] <PriceChild> sl 
[12:28] <PriceChild> somerville32, http://modfree.2.forumer.com/index.php
[12:28] <PriceChild> somerville32, they've hidden their "Ubuntu Forums" talk now so you can only get in if you request it... but its not nice
[12:29] <somerville32> Whats the issue?
[12:29] <PriceChild> which one?
[12:29] <somerville32> Ubuntu Talk
[12:29] <somerville32> A forum dedicated to anything about Ubuntu.
[12:30] <PriceChild> not that one
[12:30] <PriceChild> as I say... its hidden
[12:30] <somerville32> PriceChild, Why are they doing this?
[12:30] <somerville32> Like... what is the issue?
[12:30] <somerville32> Or "What is their issue"?
[12:30] <PriceChild> basically its a group of people who want to be able to say whatever they want
[12:30] <PriceChild> and that includes attacking other members and making jokes about the disabled
[12:31] <LjL> PriceChild: htats teribble
[12:31] <somerville32> PriceChild, What is their side of the story?
[12:31] <PriceChild> they just think we moderate too much and should be able to speak their mind
[12:33] <LjL> LjL is awesome, he's better than KDE -- Linus Torvalds
[12:35] <PriceChild> :)
[12:37] <somerville32> Thats what they said
[12:37] <somerville32> ":)"?
[12:37] <somerville32> I think you guys are looking into it too hard :P
[12:37] <somerville32> Maybe they like you?
[12:38] <somerville32> Oh wait
[12:38] <somerville32> I get it
[12:38] <somerville32> Thats just out of context
[12:38] <somerville32> The rest was too gruesome to share here
[12:45] <tonyyarusso> well that was odd....
[12:45] <tonyyarusso> (ikonia)
[12:46] <LjL> yes should grep a little
[12:52] <gnomefreak> Mez: were you able to find the 30gig lost?
[12:53] <LjL> tonyyarusso, bah, ikonia was probably right with saying that your not having a /dev/hdc didn't really have much bearing, from what i can understand
[12:53] <LjL> however i still don't quite like the general attitude
[12:54] <Mez> gnomefreak, working on it
[12:54] <tonyyarusso> LjL: It sounded like he was saying there not being an hdc was unusual...hard to understand and follow anywya
[12:55] <gnomefreak> oh ok sorry but i tried with that issue and couldnt figure it out. i still think its caught up in cache or something. like copingit caused them to download or something
[12:56] <LjL> quite hard yes, since they didn't use nicknames for a few of the exchanges... but ikona never really said one *must* have an hdc - s/he just said that, *if* you have a /dev/hdc, then removing it shouldn't really survive a reboot - it'll come back
[12:56] <Mez> gnomefreak, it's probably just badly journalled... i've made him force an fsck on boot
[12:56] <tonyyarusso> LjL: ah
[12:56] <gnomefreak> ah
[12:57] <LjL> at any rate... dunno, i think ikonia is not a troll, but sounds like s/he comes from other channels and should adjust to the kind of attitude we generally keep #ubuntu 
[12:58] <Mez> gnomefreak, I was right
[12:58] <Mez> * Thehound666 has quit ("Leaving")
 strange. I got my space back but lost my xchat network settings
[12:58] <gnomefreak> what was it?
[12:59] <Mez> basdly journalled
[12:59] <gnomefreak> didnt we ba java
[12:59] <gnomefreak> ah
[01:00] <Mez> gnomefreak, it probably got f**ked up when he was copying , and the ext3 didnt update the inode table properly
[01:00] <Mez> forcing an fsck shoulda fixed tathtat
[01:00] <Mez> nothing to do with kubuntu
[01:00] <Mez> just linux
[01:00] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[01:02] <nalioth> gnomefreak: i have no clue what you are talking about. is java a user?
[01:02] <gnomefreak> nalioth: we seem to get alot of trolls using javauser as a name
[01:03] <nalioth> ahh
[01:04] <nalioth> gnomefreak: like that?
[01:04] <gnomefreak> yep :) i forgot the ?
[01:04] <gnomefreak> i set a wildcard *javauser* ban
[01:04] <gnomefreak> with the *
[01:05] <nalioth> gnomefreak: /whois the perp, for a better idea of what/how to ban
[01:05] <Mez> gnomefreak, that means their using a java based web client for IRC
[01:05] <gnomefreak> i did who is i must have looked at it wrong but yes that would be it Mez 
[01:06] <Mez> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#webchat
[01:06] <gnomefreak> well for now it should be fine i would think
[01:06] <LjL> well
[01:06] <somerville32> gnomefreak, where did you ban *javauser*?
[01:06] <gnomefreak> kubutnu
[01:06] <gnomefreak> ack
[01:06] <gnomefreak> kubuntu
[01:07] <LjL> yesterday we had one guy coming here to complain that he was banned - that was fun, because he wasn't *really* a java user, he claimed he used that name to "hide" himself... or something
[01:07] <somerville32> You do know that might ban a lot of *good* users since I'm assuming javausers is just a default for some java client
[01:07] <gnomefreak> somerville32: yep i do
[01:07] <gnomefreak> but since its abused most of time they can get a cloak or stop using it
[01:08] <LjL> well for that matter there's also good uses of web-to-IRC gateways, still i was banned on the one i'd tried
[01:08] <somerville32> gnomefreak, Maybe make it a ban forward to a channel with info on how to fix the issue?
[01:08] <nalioth> somerville32: anyone who can't take the half second to put "john doe" . . . . 
[01:08] <gnomefreak> wikipediagast was the first one i ever saw use the javausers gateway
[01:08] <LjL> nalioth: well, if they don't *realize* that's the reason they can't join, though...
[01:09] <gnomefreak> somerville32: its not a broken issue its something they dont need to do they choose to use it
[01:09] <LjL> perhaps a forward could actually be a decent idea
[01:09] <LjL> though i also suppose it would give us away somewhat
[01:09] <somerville32> Whats wrong with using a java client?
[01:09] <gnomefreak> LjL: that would defeat the purpose of the ban
[01:09] <LjL> gnomefreak: being?
[01:10] <gnomefreak> somerville32: its been nothing but abused for a long time
[01:10] <gnomefreak> LjL: foward to channel to show how to get around it doesnt seem logical
[01:10] <gnomefreak> that would mean luck wikipediagast and others will just keep it up 
[01:11] <somerville32> IF they really want to bother you, don't you think they'd figure out how to get around it anyhow?
[01:11] <gnomefreak> somerville32: but why make it easy?
[01:11] <LjL> well on one hand it's claimed that it's easy enough to change one's name, and if you want to join you should bother doing that  --  but on the other hand we stand that we should keep this "workaround" obscure and hope people don't know it
[01:11] <LjL> i'm not sure these go together logically
[01:11] <somerville32> gnomefreak, Sounds like security via obscurity to me.
[01:12] <gnomefreak> somerville32: its like i ban you by name than i tell you all you have to do is change your name
[01:12] <nalioth> somerville32: there is NOTHING wrong with a java client, but one should put "john doe" instead of 'default user"
[01:12] <gnomefreak> the ban becomes usless and never should have been set
[01:12] <somerville32> nalioth, right
[01:13] <somerville32> And looking at the log of #kubuntu, it was't like luck was being overly disruptive. It doesn't take long to type /cs ban <nickname>
[01:13] <somerville32> gnomefreak, Or are the other *javausers* even worse?
[01:13] <gnomefreak> somerville32: i banned him by hostmask but since most of the users abuse the java gateway same as tor is abused
[01:14] <apokryphos> yeah, we have a JavaUser@ ban in #ubuntu
[01:14] <gnomefreak> somerville32: this isnt something that was just today its been set in #ubuntu for a long time
[01:15] <gnomefreak> same with tor/gateway i believe is the ban
[01:15] <somerville32> ok
[01:15] <somerville32> :)
[01:16] <gnomefreak> ty apokryphos that was the one i was thinking of
[01:17] <LjL> gnomefreak, i think you should prefix a ?= or * to that ident
[01:17] <gnomefreak> it has *
[01:18] <gnomefreak> *JavaUser@*
[01:18] <nalioth> gnomefreak: did you make a +d ban or a +b ?
[01:18] <LjL> gnomefreak, only for the nickname, but whois yourself or myself and look at the ident
[01:18] <somerville32> +d
[01:18] <gnomefreak> +b
[01:18] <somerville32> Err..
[01:18] <gnomefreak> nalioth: already has the +d ban seet
[01:18] <gnomefreak> set
[01:18] <apokryphos> +d is real name -- something different
[01:18] <LjL> though gnomefreak, actually, i don't see an *ident* ban on JavaUser@* on #ubuntu
[01:18] <nalioth> i set a +d ban on Java?User in #kubuntu 
[01:19] <LjL> ah no wait, me messed up with banlist, i guess it's there
[01:19] <gnomefreak> LjL: nalioth set +d Java?User and i set +b *JavaUser@*
[01:19] <LjL> hm well no it's still not =)
[01:20] <LjL> gnomefreak: yes, but i was saying that, on #ubuntu, we don't have the +b as far as i can see but only the +d
[01:20] <gnomefreak> what else would need to be banned?
[01:20] <gnomefreak> oh we had it at one time
[01:20] <LjL> gnomefreak: also, what you set was not *JavaUser@* but *!JavaUser@* -- that means any nickname, and any host, and an ident *exactly* matching "JavaUser" -- but i don't think you can have an ident like that
[01:20] <LjL> it'd be either n=JavaUser or i=JavaUser
[01:21] <LjL> so i think *!=?JavaUser@* (or just *!*JavaUser@*) would be the mask you want
[01:21] <LjL> err, swap = and ?
[01:22] <nalioth> ?=javauser
[01:22] <gnomefreak> it did that all i did was +b JavaUser@ it put the * in there 
[01:22] <gnomefreak> are n and i the only 2 every used?
[01:23] <LjL> gnomefreak: ok, but what i'm saying is that won't work
[01:23] <LjL> i think so gnomefreak
[01:23] <LjL> not identified and identified
[01:23] <LjL> (which means with identd, mind you, not with services)
[01:23] <nalioth> gnomefreak: yes
[01:24] <gnomefreak> so just ban *!JavaUser@*?
[01:24] <gnomefreak> without the ?
[01:24] <gnomefreak> or use ? instead of !
[01:25] <nalioth> gnomefreak: ? replaces any single charachter
[01:25] <nalioth> gnomefreak: ! is used to seperate fields in the identification
[01:25] <gnomefreak> better?
[01:25] <tonyyarusso> But, also laughs at how they find out who's muted
[01:26] <gnomefreak> we hav e abunch of mutes in #ubuntu btw
[01:26] <gnomefreak> have a bunch
[01:26] <gnomefreak> it wouldnt let me set it
[01:26] <gnomefreak> thats strange
[01:27] <somerville32> Oh look
[01:27] <somerville32> Yipe
[01:27] <yipe> he called me a redneck, I'm allowed to say that i'm not!
[01:27] <gnomefreak> who banne dyipe?
[01:28] <yipe> I'm not banned, just muted
[01:28] <tonyyarusso> by me
[01:28] <gnomefreak> oh ok 
[01:28] <yipe> he said I'm a redneck, I'm a liberal with a college education, hardly a redneck
[01:28] <tonyyarusso> And honestly, it will be off before you finish this conversation if no funny business happens
[01:28] <LjL> gnomefreak: an IRC mask is <nickname>!<ident>@hostname - the wildcard characters are "?" (matches any one character) and "*" (matches any number of characters), and in particular, for the ident Freenode uses these "n=" and "i=" prefixes
[01:29] <somerville32> yipe: You told me you're 16
[01:29] <yipe> also, I find it offensive that he called me crazed just because I disagree with him
[01:29] <yipe> What? I'm 23!
[01:29] <LjL> gnomefreak: other networks just use the bare ident if verified with identd, or prefix it with "~" if not verified -- but that's less than optimal, because to ban an ident no matter whether it's verified or not you have to use a "*" wildcard
[01:29] <gnomefreak> fixed
[01:29] <somerville32> yipe: Or maybe it was 19? I remember you telling me about how you live with your mom and your step-dad is a jerk to you.
[01:29] <LjL> gnomefreak: with freenode's way you can make bans more specific by using the ? wildcard for specifying "ban this ident whether verified or not"
[01:30] <yipe> that part is true, I had to move to back in with my parents after I lost my job, shortly after starting college
[01:30] <yipe> but I'm 23
[01:30] <yipe> I'm also upset that firststrike wasn't banned until after me
[01:31] <yipe> he started the subject, and he was the one with all the insults, I didn't say anything about him, I even conceded when he said something correct
[01:31] <gnomefreak> we start banning at z and work backwards
[01:31] <LjL> yipe, a break? you're seriously complaining about the *order* of bans?
[01:31] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: you seem to have split beryl-settings too i see a -simple
[01:32] <gnomefreak> LjL: thats how i read it
[01:32] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, indeed... I haven't used it yet... *me runs*
[01:32] <nalioth> yipe, chill and read your scrollback
[01:32] <yipe> LjL, we should have at least been muted together, 
[01:32] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: its now updating/installing
[01:33] <gnomefreak> yipe: one at a time most scripts dont handle multi bans at one time
[01:33] <gnomefreak> and i thought you were muted
[01:33] <LjL> please review ImNotScrewedAnym's work, those of you with an ATI card (or a clue about all this) - http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Tvout (well, i suppose i should have told him the *Ubuntu* wiki, but anyway)
[01:33] <LjL> and, anyway, what wiki should this go to for a start? it comes from the forums
[01:34] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, that thing's pretty nice :)
[01:34] <gnomefreak> it is?
[01:34] <gnomefreak> is it added to setting-manager?
[01:34] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, different app
[01:34] <gnomefreak> oh cool
[01:34] <gnomefreak> when im done untaring crap i will restart session
[01:35] <LjL> yipe, you know ops are humans, and when they read the mess that people do in channels, they can have a hard time getting it right immediately?
[01:35] <LjL> gee if now i should be careful about banning the first offender first - or the worst offender first - or whatever, i might as well give it up
[01:35] <yipe> if they haven't read what I've said, they shouldn't take action against me
[01:36] <LjL> false
[01:36] <Mez>  regarding the javauser thing
[01:36] <nalioth> yipe you're unbanned
[01:36] <Mez> I think it's bad...
[01:36] <LjL> they don't have to have read the *entire* 10000-lines long backscroll
[01:36] <yipe> I see that, thanks nalioth 
[01:36] <Mez> some people use it for a reason.
[01:36] <Mez> Surely javauser things should be set on a per-abuse case?
[01:36] <yipe> LjL, NOTHING I said was out of line
[01:36] <Mez> not a global ban on anyone using Java ?
[01:36] <yipe> I didn't even stoop to insults like my pistol-packing adversary did
[01:37] <Mez> I think that excluding users who use a certainclient is wrong
[01:37] <LjL> yipe, at the very least, i can see you talking about politics like mad. as usual, that is.
[01:37] <tonyyarusso> If I may interject, the intention of the mutes was to shift the conversation, via the other people who had better things to talk about, and was done on an whoever-says-something-on-that-topic-next basis.  And now we're talking about office suites and movies.
[01:37] <LjL> that you might not have been the only one, counts for nothing at all
[01:37] <Mez> gnomefreak, esepscially seeing as the bans you've set are wrong anyways
[01:38] <gnomefreak> Mez: people use tor for many reasons too but most is for abuse
[01:38] <gnomefreak> Mez: no they arent they work fine hes not there is he
[01:38] <gnomefreak> :)
[01:38] <Mez> gnomefreak, you set
[01:38] <yipe> tonyyarusso, it's not fair to mute me and only me while someone is slandering me
[01:38] <Mez> * Mez removes ban on *!=?JavaUser@*
[01:38] <Mez> * Mez removes ban on *!JavaUser@*
[01:38] <yipe> he called me a crazed redneck!
[01:38] <Mez> you would want
[01:38] <tonyyarusso> PriceChild: When did that ban happen?  I was on #ubuntu via cgi:irc like last week.
[01:38] <gnomefreak> i removed that
[01:39] <Mez> +b *!?=JavaUser
[01:39] <Mez> +b *!?=JavaUser@* 
[01:39] <Mez> =? wont match anything
[01:39] <Mez> nor will Javauser
[01:39] <PriceChild> tonyyarusso, it was around september ish
[01:39] <gnomefreak> you removed it not me
[01:39] <tonyyarusso> yipe: You always have /msg to defend yourself.
[01:39] <Mez> it's n= or i=
[01:39] <LjL> tonyyarusso: it was removed (not manually) due to a freenode crash, and never restored
[01:39] <Mez> for example, I'm
[01:39] <tonyyarusso> LjL: aaah
[01:39] <PriceChild> tonyyarusso, before the uni network staff taught me how to tunnel via ssh ;)
[01:39] <LjL> Mez: yes that was my fault, i swapped ? and = while explaining him
[01:39] <Mez> n=Mez@ubuntu/members/mez
[01:39] <tonyyarusso> PriceChild: My uni won't let me use ssh either.
[01:39] <nalioth> Mez: the java?user ban does not affect anyone with half a second to change their default user name
[01:40] <gnomefreak> should have been a ?
[01:40] <yipe> tonyyarusso, that works for the person who said it, but it doesn't clear my name to the 129 people who saw what was said against me and never saw a rebuttal!
[01:40] <Mez> nalioth, except in a lot of Java clients, you cant change your name
[01:40] <LjL> gnomefreak, it should be "?=" instead of "=?" -- as the ? matches the initial "n" or "i"
[01:40] <gnomefreak> i know i screwed up pasting
[01:40] <gnomefreak> coping
[01:40] <tonyyarusso> yipe: The other 129 people don't care, frankly.
[01:40] <LjL> gnomefreak: well no, it was my typo
[01:41] <yipe> tonyyarusso, frankly, I don't care what you think they care about, if someone is bad-mouthing me I shouldn't be the one muted
[01:41] <Mez> ^portlookup ident
[01:41] <LjL> yipe: no, you should be the one calling the ops and *not* replying in the same vein
[01:41] <LjL> or talking about politics for that matter
[01:41] <gnomefreak> is this still going?
[01:41] <gnomefreak> he was unbanned
[01:41] <LjL> parently
[01:41] <yipe> I should be able to defend myself, in public, the same forum where the insults were first uttered
[01:41] <gnomefreak> go back and chat have a good time
[01:42] <LjL> yipe: well sorry but that's not the way it works
[01:42] <yipe> gnomefreak, bad opping ruins a good time
[01:42] <yipe> no LjL that's not how it works, that's just what happened
[01:42] <LjL> i would *love* to defend myself when people badmouth me, and keep it up for half an hour... and, well, i sometimes do, but i shouldn't. i should get muted if i do
[01:42] <nalioth> yipe, please forgive us, we are only human
[01:42] <yipe> you don't mute the one being slandered, you mute the person saying it
[01:42] <gnomefreak> yipe: fighting moot points is wrong and you commented to the other user as he did you
[01:42] <apokryphos> yipe: no, that's not how it should work. Discussion on operator actions is offtopic in other channels.
[01:42] <gnomefreak> you were both wrong both muted both unmutted
[01:42] <tonyyarusso> yipe: I muted whoever kept talking.  The end.
[01:42] <yipe> apokryphos, we're not talking about an op
[01:43] <gnomefreak> yipe > gnomefreak, bad opping ruins a good time
[01:43] <apokryphos> yipe: that includes defending yourself
[01:43] <gnomefreak> your not?
[01:43] <yipe> gnomefreak, in the chan I wasn't, he said that talking abotu ops in other chans was offtopic
[01:44] <yipe> but that's not what happened, I hadn't spoken to tonyyarusso at all until he muted me
[01:45] <yipe> and when I wanted to complain about his actions I brought it here
[01:45] <somerville32> yipe: What would you like to happen?
[01:46] <Mez> brb
[01:46] <yipe> what would I like, or what do I expect to get?
[01:46] <somerville32> yipe: What would you like to happen?
[01:46] <nalioth> yipe, shows over.
[01:46] <nalioth> yipe: we've admitted a mistake and you're unbanned. please drop this
[01:48] <gnomefreak> Mez: you do relize you set a mute not a ban
[01:48] <yipe> somerville32, this is what i expected, I'm being told to be quiet, to drop it
[01:48] <yipe> no matter what I feel on the subject
[01:48] <nalioth> yipe: what MORE do you want? we apologized to you
[01:49] <Mez> gnomefreak, yes
[01:49] <yipe> no nalioth, you apologized, I thank you for that, but you weren't involved
[01:49] <LjL> !tvout
[01:49] <ubotu> For help with enabling the TV-Out on certain NVidia cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaTVOutNewbieEdition
[01:49] <LjL> !no tvout is <reply> For help with enabling the TV-Out, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaTVOutNewbieEdition (Nvidia cards) or http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Tvout (ATI cards, *untested*)
[01:49] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-ops, LjL said: !no tvout is <reply> For help with enabling the TV-Out, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaTVOutNewbieEdition (Nvidia cards) or http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Tvout (ATI cards, *untested*)
[01:50] <yipe> it means nothing coming from you nalioth, because you didn't do anything
[01:51] <somerville32> yipe: Is it so wrong for an op to use a mute to help steer the conversation?
[01:51] <yipe> somerville32, in the pure example you gave? no
[01:51] <LjL> tonyyarusso: what's ##fix_your_client?
[01:52] <tonyyarusso> LjL: nalioth made it for people who were join/quit/join/quit/join/quit I believe.  Not sure if it's actually being populated anymore.
[01:52] <gnomefreak> gentlemen and ladies if any can we please drop this now! yipe go have fun in #ubuntu-offtopic
[01:52] <nalioth> LjL: it's a channel with an informative topic
[01:52] <yipe> is it wrong to mute someone who is being slandered? That's different
[01:52] <LjL> nalioth: hm i joined it and there was no topic set...
[01:52] <somerville32> yipe: From the sounds of it, it wasn't used to rebuke you
[01:53] <nalioth> yipe, somerville32 can you take this somewhere else? yipe, you are accomplishing nothing here
[01:53] <nalioth> LjL: sorry, i'm brain-frazzed atm.  the CHANNEL NAME says it all
[01:53] <yipe> nalioth, I'm accomplishing nothing because the ops never admit when they're wrong
[01:53] <somerville32> yipe: And it isn't our fault if it happened at inconvenient time for you - but we all apologize for that.
[01:54] <somerville32> nalioth: This seems like an appropriate channel for discussion of op abuse.
[01:54] <yipe> somerville32, you weren't involved, I thank you for your concern, but it means nothing coming from anyone but the person who did it
[01:54] <LjL> aka bangingyourheadagainstthewallrepeatedlyuntilithurts
[01:54] <tonyyarusso> Sounds like op inconvenience rather than abuse to me.
[01:54] <nalioth> yipe: private message works
[01:55] <gnomefreak> its been played out already the mutes were lifted and the ops appoligized 
[01:55] <yipe> gnomefreak, not the only op that matters
[01:56] <gnomefreak> yipe: the only op that did something did afaik only tonyyarusso muted you and the other person
[01:56] <gnomefreak> - 2nd did
[01:56] <tonyyarusso> And I believe I've given my reasoning (which incidentally, was accepted politely by FirstStrike)
[01:56] <yipe> of course he accepted it politely, he got away with slander
[01:56] <gnomefreak> ok ban them both for 24 hours? will that fix it?
[01:57] <gnomefreak> see its over
[01:57] <yipe> gnomefreak, no he didn't
[01:57] <gnomefreak> noone got banned everyone is unmuted
[01:57] <gnomefreak> yipe: neither did you that was my point
[01:57] <gnomefreak> it was a 2 minute mute
[01:57] <gnomefreak> most ar 10 minimum
[01:58] <gnomefreak> are*
[01:58] <yipe> I'm talking about tonyyarusso, you said he apologized, he didn't, nalioth and somerville32 did, they weren't involved
[01:58] <apokryphos> yipe: what do you find problematic about tonyyarusso's reasoning?
[01:59] <yipe> the ban itself was not incorrect, what was wrong was leaving the other person un-muted to slander me while I could not defend myself
[01:59] <somerville32> yipe: Tonyyarusso, I'm sure, also apologizes for muting at an inconvenient time for you. However, tonyyarusso did the right thing regardless and can't be faulted.
[02:00] <yipe> somerville32, if he'd say that himself, it would mean a lot
[02:00] <yipe> again, I thank you for your concern, but it wasn't you
[02:00] <apokryphos> ok, so you're not arguing about an action taken against you, but inaction taken against another user
[02:01] <somerville32> apokryphos, or the delay between
[02:01] <apokryphos> there is a difference
[02:01] <yipe> the unfortunate simultaneity of the two
[02:01] <Mez> gnomefreak, why bother with real life when the internet is so much more interesting
 I'm also upset that firststrike wasn't banned until after me <LjL> yipe, a break? you're seriously complaining about the *order* of bans? <yipe> LjL, we should have at least been muted together,
[02:02] <yipe> that's correct
[02:02] <tonyyarusso> I don't really see the need for #ubuntu-offtopic to be the forum for "defending your honor" or anything like that.  My concern is that the conversation shifts.  What that means for the emotions of the people involved isn't high on my priorities.  Now, that may seem cold, but it's part of the separation of op and user.  As a user, I feel bad about it - and for many parts of that conversation, agree with you.  But under my op hat, none of
[02:02] <LjL> ... the rest of that sentence fits in a line
[02:02] <Mez> this channel has been nothing more than a constant headache for me in the last week
[02:03] <yipe> just say what you know I need to hear and end this tonyyarusso 
[02:03] <somerville32> Mez: Thats part of the job
[02:03] <Mez> somerville32, you're the main cause =P
[02:03] <Mez> (j/k)
[02:03] <somerville32> Mez: I^H^H^H^H^H
[02:04] <LjL> good idea
[02:04] <somerville32> yipe: Ok
[02:04] <somerville32> yipe: Now you're pushing it
[02:04] <LjL> a little
[02:04] <tonyyarusso> yipe: All right, assuming I understand this correctly, here goes:  While I still stand by my mute, a) it would have been better for a slew of about 6 of them all at once, but this is what I get for giving second chances.  b) I'm sorry you wanted to say something back and couldn't.  He was out of line as well.
[02:05] <tonyyarusso> that work?
[02:06] <yipe> thank you tonyyarusso 
[02:06] <tonyyarusso> :)
[02:06] <yipe> coulda used a nicer tone, but it'll do
[02:06] <apokryphos> ...
[02:06] <LjL> gaaaah
[02:06] <somerville32> ...
[02:06] <LjL> tonyyarusso: bow to him kiss his hand and call him your majesty next time *please*
[02:07] <nalioth> yipe.
[02:07] <gnomefreak> this has really got to stop
[02:07] <gnomefreak> nalioth: hes gone
[02:07] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: pointers?
[02:07] <gnomefreak> i suggest everyone stand by their bans mutes if they are called for
[02:07] <gnomefreak> yipe is the only one that ever has a problem with anything an op does
[02:07] <somerville32> tonyyarusso, He was trying to humiliate you in front of your peers
[02:08] <tonyyarusso> somerville32: Well, yeah, but oh well.
[02:08] <gnomefreak> somerville32: he does it to everyone
[02:08] <LjL> well the peers probably don't give a darn to be honesty
[02:08] <tonyyarusso> that too
[02:08] <gnomefreak> he is a weekly pain
[02:08] <tonyyarusso> On a more general note though, it seems the nicer I try to be in offtopic the worse it ends up.  Thoughts on that?
[02:09] <somerville32> Get stricter?
[02:09] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: be a dick.  (a fair dick)
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> lol
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> That's what I was thinking.  I'm not a huge fan of that, but it looks like it may be necessary.
[02:10] <apokryphos> maybe we could just /cs clear all; /cs mode #ubuntu-offtopic +i  ;-) 
[02:10] <gnomefreak> +1
[02:10] <tonyyarusso> hehe
[02:10] <somerville32> +1
[02:10] <gnomefreak> notice most bans kicks mutes happen in -offtopic when yipe is in there
[02:11] <somerville32> He is a troll
[02:11] <somerville32> Please see the Troll guide for more details
[02:11] <gnomefreak> btw tonyyarusso dont feel bad he tries it with EVERY OP than has every set + anything on him
[02:11] <somerville32> [21:10]  <PFA> SO YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT.
[02:11] <somerville32> [21:10]  <PFA> WOOF.
[02:11] <somerville32> 0_0
[02:11] <gnomefreak> atleasat its her not her brother
[02:12] <LjL> tonyyarusso, rationale of the invite?
[02:12] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: <kidding>I should set some random stuff like +I just to see what happens </kidding>
[02:12] <LjL> i dunno anyway, perhaps we should be really really strict in -offtopic for a while
[02:12] <tonyyarusso> LjL: People I know to be intelligent
[02:12] <LjL> just for a while
[02:13] <LjL> i'd at once add kaot and jrib then, though they probably couldn't care less about it all
[02:13] <gnomefreak> LjL: im gonna agree with you its been fairly lax lately and alot fo things that are said should be atleast a mute
[02:13] <tonyyarusso> LjL: That was re apokryphos' +i, not to here, btw
[02:13] <gnomefreak> add them to what?
[02:13] <LjL> gnomefreak see tonyyarusso's /me
[02:13] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: Our imaginary invite list to the imaginary invite-only offtopic :)
[02:13] <gnomefreak> jrib seems to be nice most of time (atleast in the year that ive chatted with him)
[02:14] <apokryphos> yeah
[02:14] <gnomefreak> ah
[02:14] <LjL> jrib is also quite knowledgeable and helpful in #ubuntu for that matter
[02:14] <apokryphos> I did suggest him as an op a while back
[02:14] <LjL> (me too)
[02:14] <gnomefreak> can we ban foward the normal pains to #offtopic!offtopic for a while see if it cleans -offtopic up a bit
[02:15] <gnomefreak> apokryphos: iirc he never wanted ops. i was one to stand behind him
[02:15] <tonyyarusso> Would that just be cluttering #off-topic?
[02:15] <Mez> gnomefreak, ##ubuntu-offtopic
[02:15] <apokryphos> I see
[02:15] <Mez> :P
[02:15] <LjL> hm dunno... i'm thinking more on the lines of "Warning: due to channel drift, policies will now be enforced strictly" in the topic, and then just do it
[02:15] <gnomefreak> tonyyarusso: thats where the shit belongs (whatever the channel is) lol
[02:16] <gnomefreak> ty Mez 
[02:16] <LjL> gnomefreak: ah, he was offered them and refused? nice
[02:16] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: The things we'd be forwarding for though - are they still ontopic for freenode itself?
[02:16] <gnomefreak> would check with nalioth and Seveas but id say add that to topic and run it for a bit
[02:16] <LjL> +1
[02:17] <Mez> LjL, where do we have policies set though/
[02:17] <gnomefreak> tonyyarusso: i think its for the crap politics and stuff
[02:17] <somerville32> +1
[02:17] <tonyyarusso> !etiquette | Mez 
[02:17] <ubotu> Mez: Unsure how you should behave on this channel? See !CoC, !Guidelines, !Offtopic, !Language, !Attitude, !Repeat, !Enter, !Paste, !NickSpam, !AskTheBot - and most importantly, use common sense :-)
[02:17] <LjL> Mez, the guidelines, the coc, !etiquette, and for -offtopic, !offtopic4offtopic
[02:17] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: ah, 'k
[02:17] <gnomefreak> !offtopic!offtopic
[02:17] <gnomefreak> !offtopic4offtopic
[02:17] <ubotu> Some things are inappropriate for #ubuntu-offtopic. It is asked that controversial topics: war, race, religion, politics (unless related to software licencing), gender, sexuality, drugs, questionable legal activities, removing of ones self from the planet are not for here, perhaps #off-topic or ##politics. Microsoft software in ##windows. (Please note Freenode Policy.) Thanks.
[02:17] <LjL> !etiquette-#ubuntu-offtopic is <reply> Unsure how you should behave on this channel? See !CoC, !Guidelines, !Offtopic, !Language, !Attitude, !Repeat, !Enter, !Paste, !NickSpam, !AskTheBot, !Offtopic4Offtopic - and most importantly, use common sense :-)
[02:17] <ubotu> I'll remember that, LjL
[02:18] <tonyyarusso> LjL: go for it
[02:18] <LjL> well not yet - my +1 was also for "ask seveas and nalioth first"
[02:18] <gnomefreak> lol
[02:18] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: !o4o is aliased :)
[02:18] <gnomefreak> no the one he just made
[02:18] <LjL> is it? i'd added it, but then removed it
[02:19] <LjL> well yes it is
[02:19] <tonyyarusso> I think I put it back
[02:19] <LjL> i had added it at one time when !offtopic4offtopic wouldn't work because of a bug in the bot
[02:19] <gnomefreak> !o4o
[02:19] <ubotu> Some things are inappropriate for #ubuntu-offtopic. It is asked that controversial topics: war, race, religion, politics (unless related to software licencing), gender, sexuality, drugs, questionable legal activities, removing of ones self from the planet are not for here, perhaps #off-topic or ##politics. Microsoft software in ##windows. (Please note Freenode Policy.) Thanks.
[02:19] <tonyyarusso> People were trying to use it and confused.
[02:19] <LjL> guess it's handy though
[02:19] <LjL> i see
[02:19] <Mez> !offtopic-#ubuntu-offtopic
[02:20] <Mez> !offtopic-#ubuntu-offtopic is <alias> offtopic4offtopic
[02:20] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[02:20] <LjL> that's a good idea as well
[02:20] <Mez> !offtopic-#ubuntu-offtopic
[02:20] <ubotu> Some things are inappropriate for #ubuntu-offtopic. It is asked that controversial topics: war, race, religion, politics (unless related to software licencing), gender, sexuality, drugs, questionable legal activities, removing of ones self from the planet are not for here, perhaps #off-topic or ##politics. Microsoft software in ##windows. (Please note Freenode Policy.) Thanks.
[02:20] <Mez> LjL, ;)
[02:21] <somerville32> !offtopic-#xubuntu-offtopic is <alias> offtopic4offtopic
[02:21] <ubotu> offtopic-#xubuntu-offtopic is already known
[02:21] <somerville32> Oh cool
[02:21] <Mez> !offtopic-#kubuntu-offtopic
[02:21] <ubotu> #kubuntu is the official Kubuntu support channel, for all Kubuntu-related questions. Please use #kubuntu-offtopic for general chatter. Thanks!
[02:21] <somerville32> !offtopic-#xubuntu-offtopic
[02:21] <ubotu> #xubuntu is the Xubuntu support channel, #xubuntu-devel for discussion regarding development of Xubuntu, and #xubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
[02:21] <somerville32> Oh, right
[02:21] <Mez> !offtopic-#kubuntu-offtopic is <alias> offtopic4offtopic
[02:21] <ubotu> offtopic-#kubuntu-offtopic is already known
[02:21] <Mez> !-offtopic-#kubuntu-offtopic
[02:21] <ubotu> offtopic-#kubuntu-offtopic is <alias> #kubuntu - added by apokryphos on 2006-06-18 16:53:47
[02:21] <somerville32> !no, offtopic-#xubuntu-offtopic is <alias> offtopic4offtopic
[02:21] <ubotu> I'll remember that, somerville32
[02:21] <Mez> !no, offtopic-#kubuntu-offtopic is <alias> offtopic4offtopic
[02:21] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[02:21] <somerville32> !offtopic-#xubuntu-offtopic
[02:21] <ubotu> Some things are inappropriate for #ubuntu-offtopic. It is asked that controversial topics: war, race, religion, politics (unless related to software licencing), gender, sexuality, drugs, questionable legal activities, removing of ones self from the planet are not for here, perhaps #off-topic or ##politics. Microsoft software in ##windows. (Please note Freenode Policy.) Thanks.
[02:21] <somerville32> Woots
[02:22] <LjL> !stop is <reply> NOTICE - Please stop this discussion NOW. See !offtopic4offtopic for things that are inappropriate to discuss in this channel. Insisting will result in actions being taken.
[02:22] <ubotu> I'll remember that, LjL
[02:22] <LjL> this is for if we enforce the idea above
[02:22] <gnomefreak> it only lists #ubuntu-offtopic you now someone will complain
[02:22] <somerville32> LjL: See inappropriate
[02:22] <somerville32> !inappropriate
[02:22] <ubotu> The current discussion topic is inappropriate for this channel. Please stop.
[02:22] <LjL> hm, didn't know about that
[02:23] <LjL> like it more verbose or less verbose?
[02:23] <gnomefreak> the longer one might be better
[02:23] <Mez> !no, stop is <reply> NOTICE - Please stop this discussion NOW. See !offtopic for things that are inappropriate to discuss in this channel. Insisting will result in actions being taken.
[02:23] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[02:23] <somerville32> Maybe keep both?
[02:23] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: good morning ;)
[02:23] <LjL> maybe, won't hurt for a while i suppose
[02:23] <Jucato> morning Hobbsee!!
[02:23] <gnomefreak> try it see how it turns out
[02:23] <somerville32> I just think that they both have their place
[02:23] <Mez> LjL, means that that can be used in any channel now (specially with !offtopic-#ubuntu-offtopic
[02:24] <somerville32> ie. depends on who and where you're using it
[02:24] <LjL> Mez: agreed
[02:24] <LjL> somerville32: well yes i suppose so. my main concern is that it should be quite visible (hence the "NOTICE"), so that one has little excuse of "not seeing it"
[02:24] <LjL> all caps would be even nicer, but we can't ;)
[02:24] <Hobbsee> hey gnomefreak, Jucato :)
[02:25] <somerville32> LjL, Right. I agree.
[02:25] <Mez> LjL, **** NOTICE ****
[02:25] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: you missed yipe
[02:25] <LjL> Hobbsee, we're fed up with -offtopic
[02:25] <LjL> !stop | Hobbsee
[02:25] <ubotu> Hobbsee: NOTICE - Please stop this discussion NOW. See !offtopic for things that are inappropriate to discuss in this channel. Insisting will result in actions being taken.
[02:25] <somerville32> LjL, stop seems like the step up from inappropriate
[02:25] <LjL> we're thinking about being quite strict in there for a while Hobbsee
[02:25] <Mez> LjL, I have a better idea
[02:25] <LjL> Mez: isn't that already a bit too spammy perhaps?
[02:26] <Mez> nalioth, can you forward -ofttopic to ##windows 
[02:26] <Mez> :P
[02:26] <Hobbsee> LjL: nice :D
[02:26] <LjL> heh
[02:26] <Mez> !no, stop is <reply> NOTICE - Please stop this discussion NOW. See !offtopic for things that are inappropriate to discuss in this channel. Insisting will result in actions being taken.
[02:26] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[02:26] <Mez> !stop
[02:26] <ubotu> NOTICE - Please stop this discussion NOW. See !offtopic for things that are inappropriate to discuss in this channel. Insisting will result in actions being taken.
[02:26] <Hobbsee> haha, excellent
[02:26] <gnomefreak> likes
[02:26] <LjL> hmm... seems good
[02:26] <somerville32> @rainbow Purrrfect!
[02:26] <Ubugtu> Purrrfect!
[02:27] <Mez> @lart somerville32 
[02:27] <somerville32> Too bad most channels have colour d isabled ;] 
[02:27] <gnomefreak> damn the bot got mean
[02:27] <LjL> somerville32: really?
[02:27] <Mez> +c shouldnt strip bolds
[02:27] <Hobbsee> i'd add that bans, etc, may be issued if you dont
[02:27] <LjL> Mez: well if your "test" was bold.. it just did
[02:28] <LjL> Hobbsee: "actions being taken"
[02:28] <Mez> LjL, darn
[02:28] <Hobbsee> hehe, yes
[02:29] <LjL> Hobbsee: if they think the "action" i'll take is just banging my own head against my own wall...
[02:29] <LjL> then, they're mistaken for sure :P
[02:29] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:30] <somerville32> What if #ubuntu-offtopic went... offline for maintenance for a few days? :P
[02:30] <Mez> somerville32, I say we just forward it to ##windows
[02:30] <LjL> actually to be honest i'd love if we could talk about politics and such a bit in -offtopic... after all, that channel is almost purposeless if you look at it objectively -- no Ubuntu support, and no decent serious conversation. just very superficial chit-chat
[02:30] <LjL> but then *everytime* politics religion etc are talked about (by yipe... invariably), it becomes a mess. if people just can't keep decency, well.
[02:31] <Hobbsee> somerville32: would be fun. but they'd take all the stuff to #ubuntu
[02:31] <LjL> and mind you, yipe usually *is* not *too* bad, the others are. but he spawns it nevertheless
[02:31] <somerville32> Has anyone thought of making -offtopic unmoderated?
[02:31] <Mez> LjL, I say we set up a completely unmoderated channel
[02:31] <Mez> ##ubuntu-offtopic
[02:31] <Mez> and if peopl;e cant obey - forward them there
[02:31] <Hobbsee> somerville32: it is unmoderated.  there's no +m set
[02:31] <Mez> then they can do what they want
[02:31] <LjL> Mez: i don't like that to be honest
[02:32] <LjL> it might make sense, but i just don't like it as guts feelings
[02:32] <gnomefreak> Mez: would open it up for fights
[02:32] <Mez> gnomefreak, so ?
[02:32] <Mez> noone would be in there
[02:32] <somerville32> gnomefreak, Exactly
[02:32] <somerville32> And it won't be our problem
[02:32] <Mez> it'd be regged.. 
[02:32] <gnomefreak> some people (like yipe) are softer than others
[02:32] <Mez> but we'd have a topic saying "This isnt our problem"
[02:32] <LjL> somerville32: well but then if it's not our problem, it doesn't have to be our channel
[02:32] <Mez> if you dont like it here - leave
[02:32] <somerville32> Right! :)
[02:32] <gnomefreak> and than they leave all together 
[02:33] <LjL> everyone - yipe or whatever - is quite free to set one up
[02:33] <somerville32> Lets get rid of #ubuntu-offtopic
[02:33] <somerville32> :D
[02:33] <LjL> no way
[02:33] <gnomefreak> but lets say its someone that really helps out in #ubuntu?
[02:33] <gnomefreak> thats not fair to that persont hat is there for some other topic
[02:33] <somerville32> freenode social could be the new offtopic channel
[02:34] <Mez> gnomefreak, I'm saying - we leave ##ubuntu-offtopic open but refer people who want to disobey the rules to ##u-ot
[02:34] <Mez> so it's two channels
[02:34] <Mez> one where we moderate
[02:34] <Mez> one which is "unofficial" and "use at own riskQW
[02:34] <LjL> no really, i think the first step really should be making -offtopic quite strict for a while. i really *don't* intend this as a long-term measure -- i'm more than happy, generally, to close an eye or two for small things on -offtopic -- i just believe it might weed out some of the mess
[02:34] <somerville32> LjL: I think we'd need more ops in -offtopic then to make it consistent
[02:35] <gnomefreak> not really there are alot of us
[02:35] <somerville32> gnomefreak: I'm on almost 24/7
[02:35] <Mez> gnomefreak, how many actually in there
[02:35] <somerville32> There are large periods of time where they is no one
[02:35] <LjL> somerville32, dunno. when *i* am looking at -offtopic, i often do *not* take any actions *even if* i know they're against policies, because i fear things such as exactly what just happened with yipe
[02:35] <somerville32> And lots of them don't even visit
[02:35] <LjL> i think the ops are there but just tend to close too many eyes right now
[02:35] <somerville32> LjL: *nods*
[02:36] <gnomefreak> well i say stop closing you eyes to most of the stuff and more ops arent really needed
[02:36] <Mez> 7 ops in there I see that do anything
[02:36] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: is here at night here
[02:36] <LjL> gnomefreak: that's what we've been saying... and technically we could just do this without asking anybody, since it's just enforcing the *existing* rules
[02:36] <gnomefreak> Seveas: and nalioth are pop ins
[02:36] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: point
[02:36] <LjL> but i'd just have n's and s's opinion first
[02:36] <somerville32> I stopped visiting #u-offtopic because the state was so poor and there was no one around usually to fix it
[02:37] <gnomefreak> LjL: yes but the meeting we just had was all about lossening up the rules a bit thats why i said ask them to make sure
[02:37] <LjL> gnomefreak: yeah, we're saying the same thing :)
[02:37] <gnomefreak> yep
[02:38] <gnomefreak> somerville32: we were there just decided to look away but we are gonna stop that (would like to get all ops on board so ther eis no confusion)
[02:38] <somerville32> gnomefreak, No, seriously
[02:38] <somerville32> I tried to hunt people down
[02:38] <somerville32> And it happened night after night
[02:38] <LjL> i know.
[02:38] <gnomefreak> night where?
[02:39] <LjL> between 2-3 o'clock CET, there's *always* the daily political/religious flamewar
[02:39] <somerville32> Well... early morning for me
[02:39] <LjL> it's as sure as the sun rising
[02:39] <gnomefreak> night here theroputic and hobbsee are online its thier day time
[02:39] <Hobbsee> night gnomefreak 
[02:39] <gnomefreak> im here around 5am EST 
[02:39] <gnomefreak> lol Hobbsee :)
[02:39] <Hobbsee> LjL: what's CET in real time?
[02:39] <somerville32> -5
[02:39] <LjL> Hobbsee: it's UTC+1
[02:39] <somerville32> Oh
[02:39] <somerville32> CET
[02:40] <somerville32> Righ right
[02:40] <LjL> central europe time
[02:40] <gnomefreak> EST == -5
[02:40] <somerville32> EST is -5 :P
[02:40] <somerville32> gnomefreak, I'm AST
[02:40] <gnomefreak> -4 for 6 months
[02:40] <somerville32> Thats -4
[02:40] <Hobbsee> ah right
[02:40] <somerville32> (and -3 for some months)
[02:40] <somerville32> So I'm only an hour ahead of you gnomefreak
[02:40] <gnomefreak> yep
[02:40] <tonyyarusso> The problem with an unregged ##ubuntu-offtopic is that it's still in our namespace, and thus our reputation and our responsibility.
[02:41] <somerville32> Right
[02:41] <gnomefreak> the ## is known as unofficial
[02:41] <LjL> tonyyarusso: yeah... and if we aren't going to touch it, then we should it even be us creating it?
[02:41] <gnomefreak> but i agree
[02:41] <somerville32> Lets just have a forward for #ubuntu-offtopic to a non-ubuntu offtopic channel like freenode social
[02:41] <gnomefreak> most of us may not even be ops in there
[02:41] <somerville32> lol
[02:41] <somerville32> It would save us lots of head-aches, I thinks
[02:42] <LjL> maybe, but really i'm not giving up -offtopic. it can be the place for a lot of nice technical conversations *at times*
[02:42] <tonyyarusso> somerville32: #off-topic would be a better candidate than #freenode-social though
[02:42] <somerville32> LjL: I don't think we'll lose that though
[02:43] <somerville32> But wait
[02:43] <tonyyarusso> LjL: Agreed
[02:43] <nalioth> #ubuntu-offtopic is not going anywhere
[02:43] <somerville32> The issue isn't that we're taking up too much time opping it
[02:43] <somerville32> The issue is that it is a displeasure for us too
[02:43] <somerville32> Some of the people are making it un-enjoyable for others
[02:43] <tonyyarusso> Well, that varies.
[02:43] <tonyyarusso> I enjoy lots of things that happen there still.
[02:44] <LjL> nalioth: we were just talking. anyway, you's one of the two we were kind of waiting for: what do you think of enforcing rules quite strictly in #ubuntu-offtopic, just for a while, and putting such a message in the topic, and using the following factoid?
[02:44] <LjL> !stop
[02:44] <ubotu> NOTICE - Please stop this discussion NOW. See !offtopic for things that are inappropriate to discuss in this channel. Insisting will result in actions being taken.
[02:44] <tonyyarusso> But, it has gone downhill in the last year.
[02:44] <nalioth> there is too much 'back seat driving' going on amongst us lately by folks who have little experience
[02:45] <LjL> nalioth: i simply *fear* taking actions in -offtopic, just because of the sort of thing that just happened with yipe. and i think quite a few of us just tend to close many eyes in -offtopic for similar reasons
[02:45] <Hobbsee> nalioth: strongly agreed.
[02:45] <somerville32> nalioth, That analogy is rather ineffective since our team really lacks any real structure or organization currently.
[02:45] <Hobbsee> nalioth: i tried to state that before, it didnt work though.
[02:45] <LjL> on one hand, it's probably *good*, in general, to not be too strict in there. but for a period of time, i think it would benefit the channel to just agree to be quite strict
[02:45] <nalioth> somerville32: you are an #xubuntu* op.
[02:46] <somerville32> nalioth, Yes, thats correct.
[02:46] <nalioth> i don't see you having any input about #ubuntu* channels you do not operate in.
[02:47] <somerville32> nalioth, oh...
[02:47] <somerville32> So we're segregating things now?
[02:47] <nalioth> somerville32: will you be affected if we take shifts in #ubuntu-offtopic for operator coverage?
[02:47] <Hobbsee> nalioth: particularly bitching about the way things work, or dont, in #ubuntu*
[02:47] <nalioth> you are here so if someone comes into this channel with a beef about #xubuntu*
[02:47] <Hobbsee> nalioth: rather than doing something productive
[02:48] <somerville32> nalioth, That is part of why I am here, yes.
[02:49] <somerville32> nalioth, I think that if I was discussing policy about the Xubuntu channels, that I would welcome input from other members of our team.
[02:49] <somerville32> nalioth: If you're implying that I'm not welcome to do so for Ubuntu's channels, please state so.
[02:50] <nalioth> there are a few people who don't have much current experience who are on the ops lists
[02:51] <nalioth> and they come in and do what they "USED" to do, but isn't much good any more due to changing situations
[02:51] <tonyyarusso> somerville32: As a thought, it may be a valid consideration that it's a channel you neither op in or, possibly more importantly, even visit anymore, which would mean you have less understanding of the environment through no real fault of your own, but just circumstances.  True?
[02:51] <nalioth> there are folks who have little experience operating a channel, but have LOTS of opinions on how others operate
[02:51] <somerville32> tonyyarusso, I don't think it has changed much since the other week.
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> somerville32: Yeah, I don't know how long you've been gone, nor how long you were in before that.
[02:53] <LjL> *cough* what about my suggestion for a [temporary]  stricter application of rules in -offtopic, and explicit stating so to the users, if that can be answered by a simple "yes" or "no" nalioth?
[02:53] <gnomefreak> lol
[02:53] <gnomefreak> +1 from me
[02:54] <nalioth> why don't we just start enforcing the rules as we see infractions?  it seems that we've gotten away from that
[02:54] <LjL> nalioth: that's the idea, yes. but we felt that we would just ask you and seveas first, even though rationally it's just a matter of enforcing already existing rules
[02:55] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: I think the idea is to give some warning before invading
[02:55] <LjL> well, that too. at least i'd do that
[02:55] <tonyyarusso> And, since folks are theoretically supposed to read the topic, a topic warning would be sufficient notice really.
[02:55] <PriceChild> LjL, Your idea makes it seem that people are scared to enforce the rules... I still feel that everyone here needs to back their fellow ops up a LOT more.
[02:55] <LjL> it's just gone a bit to far imho for us to pretend that it's "always been like this"
[02:55] <nalioth> on an infraction, friendily /notice or /msg the infractor 
[02:56] <LjL> PriceChild, no matter what, i *am* scared of that in -offtopic.
[02:56] <tonyyarusso> That works too.
[02:56] <PriceChild> LjL, Because people complain?
[02:56] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: Oh, on a random note - could you share your nice little /say aliases with me some time?
[02:56] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: because of what happened with yipe. its not scared so much as it is dont wan tto deal with it
[02:57] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, yeah scared's the wrong word...
[02:57] <LjL> nalioth, won't work. too many people are involved, and i hardly even know who're the main culprits, or even *can understand it*. see yipe's reaction to tonyyarusso simply... *banning him BEFORE the other guy*. so, i'd really like to use, much more often than we do right now, a policy of "DISCUSSION ENDS HERE" and bans follow if people keep on
[02:57] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, but its the same kind of idea. I really think you guys need to become a real team and stick up for each other
[02:58] <LjL> PriceChild: because people complain, and especially because yipe complains, and it becomes a mess, if you add that we ops also start complaining to one another - as as a matter of fact we're unfortunately doing
[02:58] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: i agree 100% and most of us do
[02:58] <PriceChild> This weekend was a bit of a turning point for the forums...
[02:59] <PriceChild> We finally put our foot down and got rid of several "mod free" trolls and arnieboy who had been annoying us for a looong time but were too scared to do anything about.
[03:02] <PriceChild> I hate to see ops not wanting to enforce the (imo common sense and decency) rules because no-one will help them.
[03:02] <LjL> so let's have a turning point in offtopic too please, but don't just say "let's pretend nothing ever turned" - let's just *agree* to enforce things strictly for a while, and be a little consistent
[03:02] <PriceChild> Be unanimous in this...
[03:02] <LjL> if i just start banning for the slightest thing, and the other 10 ops don't, that'll just be inconsistency that will no nobody any good
[03:02] <LjL> s/no/do/
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> LjL: I'm with you on it.  We'd have to tell a few people when we see them of course.
[03:03] <LjL> well. perhaps i better just post this on the ML
[03:04] <PriceChild> Does everyone agree?
[03:04] <tonyyarusso> And, probably just ignore all of the "why didn't so and so get a whatever" whining.  We'll address _your_ ban/mute/remove only.
[03:04] <LjL> PriceChild: i mean, post as to see if everyone agrees
[03:04] <PriceChild> +1 tonyyarusso 
[03:04] <tonyyarusso> PriceChild: We'll see after a ML post
[03:04] <PriceChild> ok
[03:04] <gnomefreak> do it let a vote start and go from there i would like to see how many are up to it and are not up to it
[03:04] <PriceChild> And how about a CoC/irc guidelines link in the -offtopic topic just as a little reminder
[03:04] <PriceChild> as far as i'm aware that channel isn't exempt...
[03:04] <LjL> PriceChild: i'm definitely for having some reminder in the topic
[03:05] <gnomefreak> no its not exempt
[03:05] <LjL> whether it's the coc, guidelines, or as i said a "we're gonna be stricter" friendly notice, i don't know
[03:05] <PriceChild> make a point of it :)
[03:05] <tonyyarusso> mmmm, yipe took that opportunity, this could be fun again already
[03:08] <Hobbsee> !ping
[03:08] <ubotu> pong
[03:08] <Hobbsee> !ping
[03:08] <nalioth> Hobbsee: pong
[03:08] <Hobbsee> woot :)
[03:09] <nalioth> that works better, Hobbsee 
[03:09] <Hobbsee> hehe :D
[03:09] <Hobbsee> thanks!
[03:13] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: you're aware that banning on irc tends to be harder to keep the person out than on forums?
[03:13] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, I wouldn't say that no
[03:14] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, the same tactics can easily be used to get around a ban on irc and forums
[03:14] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, remember we VERY rarely ip ban
[03:14] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: purely because of proxies - there are a lot mroe of them.  
[03:14] <Hobbsee> true
[03:14] <PriceChild> that admins go through very rigorous checks before doing so...
[03:14] <Hobbsee> hey QMario 
[03:14] <PriceChild> we almost banned jdong the other day :P
[03:14] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:14] <PriceChild> annoying cycling ips :P
[03:16] <Hobbsee> indeed
[03:16] <gnomefreak> are we a go on the -offtopic thing or still send to ML
[03:16] <PriceChild> +1 gnomefreak 
[03:16] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: FYI, kyral's done a fair bit of packaging - that's where you might recognise the nick from
[03:16] <PriceChild> (ML)
[03:16] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: hes one i used to watch but hes been better the last few months
[03:16] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, probably... I saw him on forums I'm sure for something.... Oh and had a nasty incident with him earlier today on irc :(
[03:17] <Hobbsee> :(
[03:17] <gnomefreak> hes good about it though i have had to remove him once or twice and he admitted his wrong and got on with life
[03:17] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, considering the ubuntu/member cloak though... :s
[03:18] <Hobbsee> he's moved onto arch, iirc
[03:18] <PriceChild> and he wasn't too good in pm either... basically suggesting he was gonna do some hacking things on someone else
[03:18] <PriceChild> "although i'm a white hat so don't worry" :S
[03:18] <Hobbsee> that'd be kyral, yup...
[03:19] <gnomefreak> i reloaded window manager and i still dont see -simple do i really need to restart gnome
[03:20] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, hehe :) I don't know all you oldies :P
[03:20] <gnomefreak> brb gonna try this
[03:20] <Hobbsee> :P
[03:33] <LjL> gee
[03:33] <LjL> mail sent. perhaps twice
[03:33] <LjL> i think i haven't used an email client for like ages
[03:33] <LjL> (and i didn't have a sending account configured of course)
[03:38] <LjL> gnomefreak, tonyyarusso, Hobbsee: going to bed now. please do stop by the ML and have your say
[04:05] <Mez> @lobotomize 
[04:06] <tonyyarusso> what's that do?
[04:06] <Hobbsee> shuts up the bot
[04:06] <Hobbsee> probably
[04:06] <Mez> lol
[04:06] <Mez> @capabilites
[04:06] <PuMpErNiCkLe> @t
[04:06] <Mez> @whoami
[04:06] <Ubugtu> I don't recognize you.
[04:07] <Mez> %whoami
[04:07] <ubotu> mez
[04:10] <Mez> %Admin
[04:10] <Mez> meh
[04:10] <Mez> stopid bot
[04:17] <somerville32> %whoami
[04:17] <ubotu> somerville32
[04:17] <somerville32> %whoareyou
[04:19] <Lethargy> is nickserv down?
[04:23] <nalioth> Mez: only for you
[04:24] <Mez> nalioth: tis ok, when I changed my nick it tried to rejoin all my channels and stuff
[04:24] <Mez> lagged me out
[05:16] <tonyyarusso> !ping
[05:16] <tonyyarusso> not again....
[05:16] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: not again?
[05:16] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: Where's ubotu's response?
[05:17] <nalioth> in your pocket?
[05:17] <tonyyarusso> nope, checked
[05:30] <tonyyarusso> uh oh
[05:30] <tonyyarusso> no LjL either?
[05:31] <tonyyarusso> Seveas, nalioth: ping.  Any way we can get them back?
[05:34] <tonyyarusso> The server went down again.
[05:34] <tonyyarusso> :(
[05:36] <somerville32> I'm sure Seveas was smart enough to add a vixie-cron
[05:37] <nalioth> what all channels are ubotu in?>
[05:39] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: I can confirm it in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-offtopic, +1, -ca, -marketing, -classroom.
[05:41] <tonyyarusso> Do you have shell access to LjL's I take it?
[05:41] <nalioth> i have ubotwos leash
[05:41] <tonyyarusso> What does that mean?
[05:41] <nalioth> means i can have ubotwo dance to my tune
[05:41] <tonyyarusso> But how?  ;)
[05:42] <nalioth> ljl gave me the hookup, for just this reason
[05:42] <Mez> nalioth :D
[05:42] <Mez> %lobotomy add
[05:42] <somerville32> #xubuntu
[05:42] <somerville32> #xubuntu-devel
[05:43] <somerville32> and #xubuntu-offtopic
[05:43] <tonyyarusso> #kubuntu
[05:43] <tonyyarusso> #edubuntu
[05:43] <Mez> #kubuntu-devel
[05:44] <tonyyarusso> #ubuntu-devel
[05:44] <Mez> tonyyarusso, nope
[05:44] <tonyyarusso> Really?
[05:44] <tonyyarusso> 'k
[05:44] <tonyyarusso> #ubuntuforums?
[05:44] <somerville32> Yes
[05:46] <Mez> tonyyarusso, ubugtu in -devel
[05:46] <Mez> not ubotu
[05:46] <tonyyarusso> Mez: ah
[05:46] <tonyyarusso> I don't think we have a backup of that
[05:46] <Mez> I can poke lethargy to work in place of ubugtu
[05:47] <Mez> nalioth: want me to ?
[05:47] <Mez> not the bantracker though
[05:48] <nalioth> ubugtu is not an info bot, but a pleasure model
[05:48] <Mez> nalioth, ??
[05:48] <nalioth> ubugtu is not necessary for easy info services
[05:49] <Mez> nalioth, true :D but - he's useful
[05:49] <Mez> meh I deleted the code anyways
[06:10] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: Is Freenode dancer?  I can never keep track
[06:11] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: not really
[06:11] <nalioth> it's something dance, something hybrid, something custom rolled
[06:11] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: No?
[06:11] <tonyyarusso> aaah
[06:11] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: How's it differ?
[06:12] <nalioth> not sure, i'm not a code monkey
[06:12] <tonyyarusso> k
[06:27] <Mez> @lart ubotu#
[06:27] <Mez> @lart ubotu#
[06:27] <Mez> @lart ubotu
[06:28] <tonyyarusso> !test
[06:28] <ubotu> Failed.
[06:28] <ubotwo> Failed.
[06:28] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: ping
[06:29] <nalioth>  tonyyarusso pong
[06:30] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: Just getting your attn since the bots are back (for now)
[06:30] <Mez> @lart ubotu
[06:38] <Mez> cvs -d :pserver:mez@cvs.php.net:/repository login
[06:38] <Mez> ARGH
[06:42] <nalioth> hide the silverware, jenda is here
[06:43] <Mez> :O
[08:01] <mneptok> hmmmm .... do i like Columba enough to switch?
[08:02] <Mez> Columba?
[08:02] <mneptok> http://www.columbamail.org/drupal/
[08:06] <mneptok> i'm 90% sure i'm switching for work e-mail. i had been subjecting myself to Evolution for the Main dogfooding, but sweet Jesus i loathe it.
[08:07] <Amaranth> i gave up on trying to find a desktop mail app that didn't suck
[08:08] <mneptok> BeOS had e-mail right, even with it's non-standard mail store
[08:09] <mneptok> 1 file per e-mail. all headers and content are meta-data of the MIME type
[08:10] <Amaranth> 1 file per email is what you need for tracker :)
[08:10] <mneptok> for what? Tracker?
[08:11] <Amaranth> yeah, for search
[08:11] <Amaranth> isn't that what BeOS's Tracker was for?
[08:11] <mneptok> Tracker was the file manager
[08:11] <Amaranth> I thought that's where the new one got it's name
[08:11] <mneptok> (i.e. Nautilus)
[08:11] <Amaranth> ah
[08:12] <mneptok> but yes, it had hooks for the filesystem to do queries.
[08:13] <mneptok> when i wonder how Novell could ever smoke enough crack to sign on with Microsoft i fire up Evolution.
[08:14] <mneptok> suddenly, it all makes sense.
[08:14] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: what are your thoughts on TB?
[08:15] <Amaranth> tuberculosis? 
[08:15] <tonyyarusso> sigh
[08:15] <tonyyarusso> no, thunderbird
[08:15] <tonyyarusso> you ninny ;)
[08:16] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: i use it at home for personal e-mail. it's OK.
[08:16] <jenda> Where's the silverware?
[08:16] <tonyyarusso> jenda: We hide it, remember?
[08:17] <mneptok> i have no major quarrels with T-bird, except for "just feeling heavy"
[08:17] <jenda> tonyyarusso: I see...
[08:17] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: That's true - it's taking forever to load up these days, but it never used to.
[08:17] <mneptok> of course, compared to Evolution it's a feather.
[08:18] <tonyyarusso> jenda: I tucked it away in ##tonyyarusso for safekeeping
[08:19] <jenda> sniff
[08:19] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: give Columba the 48 hour forced march. in my 90 minutes with it it has yet to spawn homocidal rage. that's ... unusual for an MUA. :)
[08:20] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: repos?
[08:20] <mneptok> we'll see if it can go the distance.
[08:20] <maddash> what? tony caruso? isn't that the guy from csi:miami?
[08:20] <tonyyarusso> maddash: yarusso, not caruso :)
[08:20] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: don't think so. i grabbed the tarball.
[08:20] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: phooey
[08:21] <tonyyarusso> It's...java?
[08:21] <mneptok> [mneptok@anubis]  mneptok :: asearch columba
[08:21] <mneptok> [mneptok@anubis]  mneptok :: 
[08:21] <maddash> tonyyarusso: cool. are you related to that guy? I find him terribly annoying
[08:21] <tonyyarusso> maddash: Nope
[08:21] <mneptok> not in repos. and yeah, Java.
[08:21] <tonyyarusso> I'm wondering if my speed issue is b/c I tried prelink/preload
[08:22] <maddash> "boy scout" rang many alarms in my head
[08:49] <maddash> why?
[08:55] <Mez> wth is happening to me
[08:55] <Mez> I'm starting to help with gentoo and freebsd
[08:55] <Burgundavia> clearly your sanity is going :)
[08:56] <Burgundavia> I recommend a stiff drink
[09:45] <Mez> Burgundavia, sent me alcohol then
[09:45] <Mez> though I do have a lil coke and vodka left
[09:45] <Burgundavia> hmm, distances are kind of large
[09:46] <Mez> Burgundavia, so? alocohol keeps :D
[09:47] <Burgundavia> yes, but distances means time
[09:47] <Mez> Burgundavia, well, it depends on how much you wanna cure me
[09:48] <Mez> paypal me $10 I'll go buy a bottle of vodka ;)
[09:48] <Mez> lol
[09:48] <Burgundavia> heh
[09:51] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia!
[09:51] <Burgundavia> hey elkbuntu
[09:51] <elkbuntu> :D
[09:52] <elkbuntu> how you been?
[09:52] <Burgundavia> thanks for the christmas card. I don';t think I have talked to you since that time
[09:52] <elkbuntu> you havent, no
[09:52] <Burgundavia> busy with new gf and new job, plus burning out on work (and thus life), in general
[09:52] <elkbuntu> aww
[09:52] <elkbuntu> new job?
[09:53] <Burgundavia> new position at the same job
[09:53] <elkbuntu> aha more monies then, i hope
[09:55] <Burgundavia> not really
[09:55] <Burgundavia> but hopefully something more interesting
[10:37] <Mez> ah...
[10:37] <Mez> lol @ rob's quit message
[12:30] <Mez> jenda / nalioth, around ?
[12:30] <Mez> or even rob
[12:38] <mneptok> problem?
[12:41] <Mez> mneptok, just requesting cloak for bot
[12:50] <mneptok> color me useless
[12:53] <gnomefreak> doesnt Seveas handle the cloaks now
[12:57] <jenda> Mez: now
[12:57] <jenda> gnomefreak: he has the jurisdiction, we have the power ;)
[12:57] <Mez> gnomefreak, unaffil cloak
[12:57] <Mez> jenda: sorted anyways
[12:58] <jenda> ok
[01:06] <jenda> Mez: email!
[01:23] <Mez> Hobbsee, first the spanking
[01:23] <Mez> now the biting
[01:24] <Hobbsee> hah.  nope
[01:26] <Mez> you did ...
[01:26] <Mez> or something
[01:26] <Mez> but grr
[01:26] <Mez> why dont per-channel factoids work on my fsking bot
[01:26] <Hobbsee> because it doesnt like you
[01:50] <Mez> Seveas, have you b0rked the code so only ubotu can use it ?
[02:38] <Mez> ok, I think I got it
[02:38] <Jucato> yay! :)
[02:38] <Mez> IF I can find out one thing
[02:39] <tonyyarusso> Mez: I've been trying to get Seveas to share the full config directory with me, to see how they're tweaked, but he can't until he has time to remove passwords.
[02:40] <Mez> tonyyarusso, it's coo
[02:40] <Mez> I just worked out per-channel stuff = seperate dbs
[03:04] <Mez> !cheese-#ubuntu-ops is Mez
[03:04] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:04] <Mez> !cheese
[03:04] <ubotu> cheese-#ubuntu-ops is Mez
[03:04] <PriceChild> :)
[03:04] <Mez> why does it show the suffix ?
[03:04] <Mez> lol
[03:04] <Mez> !forget cheese-#ubuntu-ops
[03:04] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:05] <PriceChild> Mez, !cheese-#ubuntu-ops is <reply> Mez
[03:05] <Mez> yes I know :D but it'd have to be
[03:05] <Mez>  !cheese-#ubuntu-ops is <reply> is Mez
[03:05] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:05] <Mez> !cheese
[03:05] <PriceChild> :)
[03:05] <ubotu> is Mez
[03:05] <Mez>  !no, cheese-#ubuntu-ops is <reply> cheese is Mez
[03:05] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:05] <Mez> !cheese
[03:05] <ubotu> cheese is Mez
[03:06] <GazzaK> hehe
[03:06] <Mez> !forget cheese-#ubuntu-ops
[03:06] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:06] <Jucato> lol
[03:06] <Mez> I love that reply
[03:09] <PriceChild> hehe
[03:09] <PriceChild> It is good :)
[03:16] <gnomefreak> !rip
[03:16] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about rip - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[03:16] <gnomefreak> !ripping
[03:16] <ubotu> For information about the Sound Juicer ripping application, read the Gnome help (Applications- Multimedia -Sound Juicer Manual). To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar; it's configurable in system settings.
[03:16] <gnomefreak> !rip is <alias> ripping
[03:16] <ubotu> I'll remember that, gnomefreak
[03:17] <gnomefreak> would be nice if people would add links to facts when they can :(
[03:18] <gnomefreak> !no ripping is <reply> For information about the Sound Juicer ripping application see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CDRipping. To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar; it's configurable in system settings.
[03:18] <ubotu> I'll remember that, gnomefreak
[03:20] <Mez> !no, ripping is <reply> For information about the Sound Juicer ripping application see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CDRipping.
[03:20] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:20] <Mez> !no, ripping-#kubuntu is <reply> To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar; it's configurable in system settings.
[03:20] <ubotu> I know nothing about ripping-#kubuntu yet
[03:20] <Mez> !ripping-#kubuntu is <reply> To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar; it's configurable in system settings.
[03:20] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:21] <Mez> !no, ripping-#kubuntu is <reply> To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar.
[03:21] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:21] <Mez> !rip-#kubuntu is <alias> ripping-#kubuntu
[03:21] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:23] <gnomefreak> no need for codecs in kubuntu to rip?
[03:23] <Jucato> er...
[03:23] <Jucato> Mez: that wiki page has a more detailed guide about audiocd:/
[03:24] <Mez> !no, ripping-#kubuntu is <reply> To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar; it's configurable in system settings. Also see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CDRipping
[03:24] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:25] <Mez> !no, ripping-#kubuntu is <reply> To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar; it's configurable in system settings. Also see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CDRipping
[03:25] <ubotu> Nothing changed there
[03:25] <Mez> !no, ripping-#kubuntu is <reply> To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar; it's configurable in system settings. Also see http://tinyurl.com/2x7qsh
[03:25] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:26] <Jucato> gnomefreak: it's meant for #kubuntu only
[03:26] <gnomefreak> Jucato: people use both
[03:26] <Jucato> gnomefreak: huh?
[03:27] <gnomefreak> seeing as its the same factoid as what i had why make it for kde only?
[03:27] <Jucato> gnomefreak: ripping-#kubuntu <-- means that this particular form of the factoid will only show up in #kubuntu
[03:27] <gnomefreak> people have a tendency to use both gnome and kde
[03:27] <Jucato> makes it easier to locate
[03:31] <Mez> gnomefreak, it's common practice to put KDE specific stuff in a -#kubuntu factoid
[03:31] <Mez> !no ripping is <reply> For information about the Sound Juicer ripping application see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CDRipping. To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar; it's configurable in system settings.
[03:31] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:32] <Mez> !no ripping is <reply> For information about the Sound Juicer ripping application see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CDRipping. To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar
[03:32] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[03:46] <gnomefreak> !info firefox edgy
[03:46] <ubotu> firefox: lightweight web browser based on Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.0.1+0dfsg-0ubuntu0.6.10 (edgy), package size 8992 kB, installed size 28580 kB
[03:46] <gnomefreak> !info firefox feisty
[03:46] <ubotu> firefox: lightweight web browser based on Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.0.1+0dfsg-0ubuntu2 (feisty), package size 9006 kB, installed size 28588 kB
[03:50] <Seveas> nalioth, rob or jenda available?
[03:51] <jenda> Seveas: nope.
[03:51] <Seveas> heh
[03:51] <Seveas> jenda, linuxba wants an ubuntu cloak :)
[03:51] <jenda> I'm afk right now, and off duty.
[03:51] <Seveas> ok
[03:51] <jenda> Nothing I can do. In fact, I'm probably at school... maybe asleep ;)
[03:52] <Seveas> schrodingers jenda
[03:52] <gnomefreak> afk and typing. you got skillz ;)
[03:52] <jenda> gnomefreak: yup ;)
[03:53] <Seveas> telepathy
[03:53] <Seveas> (pun intended)
[03:54] <jenda> hehe :)
[03:55] <jenda> Seveas: I think you can tell linuxba the good news.
[03:56] <Seveas> jenda, give him stupid/fool/gazzak :)
[03:56] <GazzaK> :'(
[03:56] <jenda> Seveas: I can only give unaffiliated and tapthru
[03:56] <jenda> :)
[03:56] <jenda> GazzaK: you aint' getting tapthru.
[03:57] <GazzaK> what is tapthru?
[03:57] <jenda> That's a _prestige_ cloak.
[03:57] <jenda> Even I did'nt dare take one.
[03:57] <jenda> GazzaK: /j #help
[03:57] <apokryphos> GazzaK: become a member and you get one for free
[03:57] <Mez> jenda: shouldnt it be uberpimp/ then instead of tapthru
[03:59] <jenda> hehe
[03:59] <jenda> GazzaK: or donate to freenode and get one for cash!
[03:59] <GazzaK> jenda, I like that channel
[03:59] <Mez> jenda, or do nothing and get one for free
[03:59] <GazzaK> sounds like a good place to autojoin
[03:59] <jenda> GazzaK: very.
[03:59] <Mez> GazzaK, tis
[04:00] <jenda> hehe
[04:00] <GazzaK> can I become a member? :-)
[04:01] <Mez> !processes
[04:01] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about processes - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[04:02] <jenda> !newmember
[04:02] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about newmember - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[04:02] <jenda> !membership
[04:02] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about membership - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[04:02] <Mez> !membership is <reply> See http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember fr details of membership
[04:02] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[04:02] <gnomefreak> !member
[04:02] <ubotu> Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
[04:02] <jenda> haha
[04:02] <gnomefreak> lol
[04:02] <jenda> Mez: you should've tried searching.
[04:02] <Mez> !forget membership
[04:02] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[04:02] <jenda> you should alias those.
[04:03] <Mez> !membership is <alias> member
[04:03] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[04:03] <Mez> !newmember is <alias> member
[04:03] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Mez
[04:05] <GazzaK> i'll need to actually need to learn how this linux thing works to become a ubuntu member
[04:06] <Mez> Seveas - how about setting up ubuntu/pimp/* for ubunteros ?
[04:06] <jenda> Seveas: you around?
[04:06] <Mez> :P
[04:06] <jenda> hehe
[04:06] <jenda> GazzaK: trust me, you don't.
[04:06] <gnomefreak> you have to know how linux works first? someone should have told me that months ago :(
[04:06] <GazzaK> oh, really
[04:06] <Mez> jenda, btw - I just submitted a group application
[04:06] <jenda> GazzaK: you can join the marketing team - you just have to be able to talk about it then :)
[04:06] <jenda> Mez: which?
[04:06] <Mez> katapult ;0
[04:06] <GazzaK> I do pimp ubuntu at any availible chance
[04:06] <GazzaK> jenda, I think I already have
[04:07] <GazzaK> oops
[04:08] <jenda> Mez: doesn't match - is that the group name? what channels?
[04:08] <gnomefreak> Seveas: have you read the email from ljl yet?
[04:08] <jenda> Seveas: could we have a trivia factoid?
[04:09] <Mez> katapult is the group name
[04:09] <gnomefreak> !trivia
[04:09] <Mez> #katapult and #katapult-bot so far
[04:09] <ubotu> The #ubuntu-trivia channel is a place for testing your brain power and having fun! We schedule themed quizzes, every Friday, to test your knowledge of your favourite operating system (Ubuntu, of course!) and keep you exercising those cranial muscles.
[04:09] <gnomefreak> jenda: we do
[04:09] <apokryphos> and of course you can
[04:09] <jenda> !trivia
[04:09] <jenda> ah
[04:09] <jenda> sry
[04:09] <apokryphos> timeout
[04:09] <jenda> gnomefreak: I didn't see it on the site.
[04:10] <jenda> aaha
[04:10] <jenda> there are multiple pages.
[04:11] <apokryphos> ubotu: brain
[04:11] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[04:12] <apokryphos> jenda: it's searchable
[04:12] <apokryphos> but you can also search the factoids from here
[04:12] <apokryphos> ubotu: search trivi
[04:12] <ubotu> Found: trivia
[04:12] <jenda> Mez: found.
[04:12] <jenda> apokryphos: thx
[04:12] <jenda> nice
[04:15] <Mez> jenda: w00t :D at lewast it went through
[04:15] <Mez> now 3 months and I might have it
[04:16] <jenda> Mez: poke me later today, and it'll get done, I think.
[04:16] <jenda> We're getting better.
[04:16] <apokryphos> Mez: though you're not the only one :P
[04:16] <Mez> jenda: np
[04:20] <jenda> hehe
[04:21] <Mez> now, do I go buy lemonade
[04:21] <Mez> or do i drink the squash
[04:21] <GazzaK> drink squash and jump about a lot to shake it up
[04:22] <Mez> lol
[04:32] <ubotu> In #ubuntuforums, majikstreet said: !wildtangent is insane
[04:34] <Mez> !abuse > wildtangeny
[04:34] <Mez> !abuse > wildtangent
[04:34] <Mez> !botabuse > wildtangent
[04:36] <TheSheep> shoudn't it go to majikstreet? :)
[04:36] <Mez> TheSheep, whoops ;)
[04:36] <GazzaK> lol
[04:36] <GazzaK> yeah, thats what I thought
[04:36] <Mez> !botabuse > majikstreet
[05:03] <GazzaK> Seveas, GazzaKicK - is that a new script you are writing?
[05:04] <Seveas> now there's an idea!
[05:04] <GazzaK> :'(
[05:04] <Seveas> a script that kickforwards you to a random channel every 15 minutes
[05:05] <GazzaK> it's bad enough people thinking i'm some sort of troll, what with all my kicks on the bantracker
[05:05] <Seveas> have you *ever* been kicked for a reason?
[05:05] <GazzaK> for a reason apart from randomness?
[05:05] <Seveas> yes
[05:05] <GazzaK> or bullying
[05:05] <GazzaK> or "'cos I felt like it"
[05:06] <GazzaK> or "I'm bored, I know, lets kick GazzaK 
[05:06] <GazzaK> nope
[05:08] <Seveas> sqlite> delete from bans where mask like '%@unaffiliated/gazzak';
[05:08] <Seveas> sqlite> 
[05:08] <Seveas> your bantracker record now is empty :)
[05:08] <GazzaK> yay, I know longer "look" like a troll
[05:08] <GazzaK> apart from my hobbit feet
[05:09] <GazzaK> is that live Seveas ?
[05:09] <apokryphos> slate still not clean, it seems
[05:09] <apokryphos> odd
[05:09] <Seveas> GazzaK, yes
[05:09] <GazzaK> apokryphos, lol
[05:10] <GazzaK> https://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/bans.cgi?anonymous=1&query=GazzaK&kicks=on&oldbans=on&bans=on&oldmutes=on&mutes=on
[05:10] <GazzaK> still got 1000000's there :p
[05:11] <Seveas> heh
[05:11] <apokryphos> haha
[05:11] <Seveas> I only removed the bans/forwards
[05:11] <apokryphos> that is without a doubt the most bans someone has ;-)
[05:11] <Seveas> yeah
[05:11] <GazzaK> dunno why???
[05:12] <apokryphos> bad troll/abuser
[05:12] <GazzaK> you said you liked it
[05:12] <apokryphos> =)
[05:16] <Seveas> the slate is a bit cleaner now
[05:17] <GazzaK> yay, only 5 pages now, down from 101
[05:18] <GazzaK> scary how half of those are me kicking others
[05:19] <Seveas> :)
[05:19] <Seveas> let's rebuild your track record
[05:20] <GazzaK> :-(
[05:20] <apokryphos> better ;-)
[05:24] <Mez> /cs lart GazzaK 
[05:24] <Mez> Seveas, small point regarding chanserv.py
[05:24] <Mez> it doesnt need to op/deop to just kick
[05:25] <Seveas> Mez, /
[05:25] <Seveas> ?
[05:25] <Mez> Seveas - you wrote chanserv.py right /
[05:25] <Seveas> yes
[05:25] <Mez> ok
[05:25] <Mez> well when you do
[05:25] <Seveas> but I'm intrigued
[05:25] <Mez> /cs kick name
[05:26] <Mez> it ops, removes them from the channel
[05:26] <Mez> and then deops
[05:26] <Seveas> yup
[05:26] <Mez> but it's calling chanserv
[05:26] <Mez> to do the remove
[05:26] <Mez> so it doesnt need to do the op/deop
[05:26] <Seveas> it does not
[05:26] <Seveas> chanserv can't remove
[05:26] <Seveas> it calls chanserv only for op/deop
[05:26] <GazzaK> it does if you are not in the chanserv op list ( hehe )
[05:27] <Seveas>         if self.typ in [KICK, KICKBAN, KICKNAMEBAN, LART] :
[05:27] <Seveas>             self.ctx.command("REMOVE %s %s :%s" % (self.channel, self.nick, self.comment))
[05:27] <Seveas> 
[05:27] <Seveas> no chanserv in there
[05:29] <Mez> ah ok, apologies Seveas I thought remove was a chanserv command
[05:31] <Seeker`> are the scripts available online anywhere?
[05:32] <GazzaK> yes
[05:32] <Seeker`> where?
[05:33] <apokryphos> google -> kaarsemaker chanserv.py 
[05:33] <GazzaK> how can a voice be reoved twice?
[05:33] <Seveas> no idea
[05:33] <GazzaK> lol
[05:33] <Seveas> chanserv hates you!
[05:33] <GazzaK> no, thats you
[05:33] <GazzaK> :'(
[05:33] <Seveas> true
[05:33] <GazzaK> I still love you
[05:34] <GazzaK> owww, lots of nalioth's
[05:35] <Seeker`> are the scripts that the bots run available online?
[05:35] <apokryphos> they're supybot plugins, and they are too
[05:35] <apokryphos> ubotu: brain
[05:35] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[05:36] <GazzaK> it has a brain, ummm, yummy
[05:40] <Seeker`> bazaar wont let me get the code
[05:40] <apokryphos> what is the error?
[05:41] <Seeker`> branch: could not determine source revision from directory: /home/cjo20/ubuntu_bots
[05:42] <Seeker`> wait, i'm being stupid
[05:43] <Seeker`> playing with regexs all day has fried my brain
[05:44] <Seveas> heh
[05:44] <Seveas> --- Loaded Chanserv helper 1.0.1 by Seveas <dennis@kaarsemaker.net>
[05:44] <Seveas> the first patch in quite a while ;)
[05:46] <GazzaK> Seveas, it's still the 1.0 on your site
[05:52] <Mez> apokryphos, see I got a mute in there first ;)
[05:52] <apokryphos> mutes suck :P
[05:53] <Mez> mutes are the easiest way thougjh
[05:53] <GazzaK> http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/smokekills.swf  hehe
[05:54] <Seeker`> Seveas: You been writing scripts for bots long?
[05:55] <Seveas> for a while
[05:55] <Seveas> ubotu/ubugtu are almost 8 months old
[05:55] <Seveas> but I had bots before that :)
[05:56] <Seveas> actually, ubugtu is considerably older
[05:56] <Seeker`> have you ever used eggdrops?
[05:56] <Seveas> yeah
[05:56] <Seveas> but I don;t like TCL at all
[05:56] <Seeker`> why not?
[05:57] <Seveas> because it sucks :)
[05:57] <Seeker`> i'm trying to write a bot that logs meetings and makes the output nice so its easier to write minutes for them
[06:00] <Mez> Seveas, I take it you dont like haskell then ?
[06:05] <GazzaK> sssssssss
[06:05] <GazzaK> my attempt at python
[06:12] <TheSheep> GazzaK: how can you! my mother was a saint!
[06:14] <GazzaK> pardon?
[06:14] <somerville32> jenda++
[06:14] <TheSheep> GazzaK: sssssssss yourself!
[06:14] <GazzaK> okay
[06:15] <GazzaK> ouch, that hurts
[06:15] <jenda> huh?
[06:15] <jenda> somerville32: what'd I do? :)
[06:16] <jenda> oooh
[06:16] <jenda> mailing list
[06:16] <jenda> right?
[06:16] <somerville32> yup
[06:17] <jenda> 
[06:22] <Mez> Seveas, how hard would it be to impement jenda's suggestion ?
[06:22] <jenda> s/how hard would it be to implement/what do you think about/
[06:23] <Mez> s/(how hard would it be to implement)/what do you think about \& $1/
[06:24] <jenda> hehe
[06:24] <jenda> I gotta go to the post office now. later.
[06:25] <Mez> hf
[06:25] <LjL> high frequencies?
[06:25] <Mez> ^acronym hf
[06:26] <Mez> http://slang.acronymfinder.com/acronym.aspx?rec={97C3CADD-89E8-11D4-8351-00C04FC2C2BF}
[06:26] <LjL> high frequencies or human factors, according to the first google hit
[06:26] <LjL> that too, i guess
[06:27] <somerville32> high five?
[06:27] <somerville32> oh, have fun
[06:41] <LjL> "We are aware of the problems with ubotu" <- what problems, this time?
[06:41] <Mez> LjL thats old
[06:42] <LjL> guess i can remove it then?
[06:42] <LjL> ah nevermind
[06:42] <Mez> already did
[06:42] <Mez> keep an eye on -offtopic
[06:42] <LjL> doing so
[06:43] <LjL> perhaps this time it was a bit excessive though, they *are* talking about philosophy... with a bit of religion references in it, yeah
[06:43] <LjL> but, no, they're already verging on religion again
 blimpdude, oh yes...sacrifice the human cattle to appease the gods.
 Some life.
 except religions like christianity, islam and jeudaism
[07:05] <jenda> Mez: confirmed as GC for Katapult.
[07:06] <jenda> apokryphos: the reason you're discriminated: you're in the states ;)
[07:06] <Mez> jenda, yeah - Phil just poked me
[07:07] <jenda> cool
[07:40] <apokryphos> jenda: united states of Great Britain? ;-)
[07:40] <jenda> apokryphos: but you should be up, soon ;)
[07:40] <apokryphos> cool
[07:41] <apokryphos> jenda: what is the real reason there's evil discrimination? :P
[07:42] <jenda> apokryphos: because the guy who did Mez didn't feel like making an international phone call :)
[07:42] <apokryphos> jenda: eh? What for?
[07:43] <jenda> apokryphos: (although he near insisted on calling _me_ to confirm ##chess... even though he confirmed me yesterday for #tapthru :)))
[07:43] <jenda> apokryphos: to confirm that you are _contact_able.
[07:43] <apokryphos> hah
[07:44] <somerville32> I registered for ##lpc years ago
[07:44] <somerville32> and I never got called
[07:44] <somerville32> (I did it for #lpuni too)
[07:45] <somerville32> Is the "backlog" an excuse to get out of calling long distance? : P
[07:46] <apokryphos> it's not for registering, it's for getting a hostmask
[07:46] <apokryphos> well, cloaks
[07:46] <somerville32> Yes
[07:47] <somerville32> I wasn't talking about channel registration
[07:47] <apokryphos> oh, Isee
[07:47] <somerville32> I was talking about registering as the contact so that I could give out cloaks
[07:59] <jenda> Seveas: pingers
[07:59] <jenda> Seveas: 2 things
[07:59] <Seveas> jenda: oh noes
[07:59] <jenda> !xchatsysinfo
[07:59] <ubotu> http://dev.realistanew.com/xchat/sysinfo.py
[07:59] <jenda> We banned using that in #ubuntuforums
[07:59] <Seveas> dude, make factoids which have more than a url plzkthxbye
[07:59] <jenda> I'd rephrase that factoid, mentioning that it shouldn't ...
[07:59] <jenda> yes.
[07:59] <jenda> ...shouldn't be used too much, and not at all in topical channels.
[08:00] <Seveas> if i see that being used anywhere, be sure I kick
[08:00] <Seveas> even in -offtopic
[08:00] <jenda> yes.
[08:00] <LjL> what's that
[08:00] <LjL> is that the thing with a colored bar?
[08:00] <Seveas> yes
[08:00] <LjL> then i've seen it used often enough
[08:00] <jenda> yes.
[08:01] <jenda> :)
[08:01] <Seveas> ya know what
[08:01] <Seveas> !forget xchatsysinfo
[08:01] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[08:01] <jenda> Not good.
[08:01] <LjL> i mean i've seen the *thing* used, not the *factoid*
[08:01] <jenda> Seveas: I'd give them the link... but explain to use it in their _own_ channels, not in public ones.
[08:02] <Seveas> LjL, the thing should not be used in ubuntu channels, so why would we need a factoid for it?
[08:03] <somerville32> I find the script useful! :)
[08:03] <jenda> The sysinfo plugin can be used to display system stats in IRC. You can download it here: <> However, it isn't appreciated in any Ubuntu channels, nor in most topical channels.
[08:03] <jenda> Seveas: in case people do
[08:03] <jenda> !language | Seveas
[08:03] <ubotu> Seveas: Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
[08:03] <Seveas> eh?
[08:04] <LjL> Seveas: i guess we probably don't, unless it *gets* used often enough to warrant a factoid deploring its use
[08:04] <jenda> Seveas: or, include one that doesn't have the link at all... but have a factoid.
[08:04] <somerville32> It answers a lot of questions off the bat
[08:04] <LjL> or that
[08:04] <Seveas> jenda, that sounds like a plan
[08:04] <somerville32> ie. CPU model, how much ram, how much disk space, video card, etc.
[08:05] <jenda> somerville32: how long does either of those take to type?
[08:05] <jenda> Seveas: can I continue to the next issue? :)
[08:05] <somerville32> jenda: Some users don't know how to find that info
[08:05] <Seveas> jenda, not nearly as long as it takes to download the script :)
[08:05] <LjL> anyway, now let's not make a huge deal of this small thing please
[08:05] <jenda> Seveas: exactly.
[08:05] <LjL> i'd say "who cares"
[08:05] <Seveas> jenda, sure, move on please
[08:05] <jenda> somerville32: but they know how to install that script... mhm...
[08:05] <jenda> Seveas: so, as a reaction to our banning that...
[08:05] <somerville32> jenda: Most people know how to download a file
[08:06] <jenda> OMG! Grep says 500 uses of that thing in #ubuntuforums
[08:06] <nalioth> good morning Seveas 
[08:06] <Seveas> shiver
[08:06] <jenda> (/me feels like just having found a tumor)
[08:06] <Seveas> jenda, heh
[08:06] <jenda> anyway...
[08:06] <LjL> jenda: a grep keyword?
[08:07] <jenda> Someone started complaining that some of the @t, @bauer and @chuck quotes weren't family friendly.
[08:07] <jenda> LjL: "Computer:"
[08:07] <Seveas> jenda, full ack
[08:07] <Seveas> it has a "bad words" filter which could be improved
[08:07] <jenda> Seveas: however, they offered to find them for us.
[08:07] <jenda> If you get him a list.
[08:07] <Seveas> there is no list
[08:07] <jenda> pulled?
[08:07] <Seveas> it grabs them live from 4q.cc
[08:07] <jenda> hm
[08:08] <jenda> dayum
[08:08] <jenda> Seveas: and the bad words filter?
[08:08] <jenda> blacklist better than no list :)
[08:09] <jenda> Seveas: assuming I have a worker for it ;)
[08:09] <Seveas> feel free to file bugs with words to filter
[08:09] <somerville32> Btw, that malt guy came for a visit the other night again
[08:09] <jenda> Seveas: no easier way?
[08:09] <Seveas> somerville32, lovely
[08:09] <Seveas> I hope you thwacked his butt with a big bointy hobbsee of doom
[08:10] <somerville32> He apparently has logs that prove that Jenda and Mez were flooding his IRC server. He sent them to me via e-mail but I haven't had a chance to review them.
[08:10] <jenda> somerville32: you don't have to, we've all confessed, I think ;)
[08:10] <somerville32> Ah.
[08:10] <Seveas> heh
[08:10] <Seveas> bad boys
[08:10] <jenda> yep
[08:10] <LjL> guys... guys... i'm wordless
[08:10] <Seveas> as ops you really shouldn't do that
[08:10] <jenda> I know.
[08:11] <Seveas> and you as freenode staff definitely not
[08:11] <somerville32> :/
[08:11] <jenda> heh
[08:12] <jenda> I understand.
[08:12] <jenda> (and I apologize)
[08:14] <somerville32> Mez told me he didn't do anything malicious
[08:14] <jenda> Well, it's not like we killed him. We pasted bits.
[08:15] <somerville32> Mez certainly didn't disclose what he did when enquired
[08:15] <jenda> I don't know what he did exactly.
[08:15] <jenda> I don't think it was all him, either.
[08:15] <somerville32> Who else do you think was participating?
[08:15] <jenda> (all mez)
[08:15] <jenda> No idea
[08:16] <jenda> I could check the log, if you insisted.
[08:16] <jenda> I'd greatly prefer not pointing a finger, though :)
[08:17] <jenda> I don't think it's worth a witch hunt, really, and I believe they'll admit it, anyway.
[08:18] <somerville32> This is certainly an interesting revelation
[08:18] <somerville32> I know I personally appreciate your honesty though
[08:19] <jenda> I don't see it as a really big deal. It's definitely non-CoC, but wasn't too serious, and he was one of the worst trolls I've seen in a long while.
[08:20] <jenda> I understand others are of different opinions, and I'll accept whatever it implies.
[08:27] <nalioth> did seveas get fixed up?
[08:27] <Seveas> nalioth, ?
[08:29] <nalioth> Seveas: you asked for me or r0b earlier
[08:30] <Seveas> ah ok
[08:30] <Seveas> that was done
[08:30] <Seveas> jende sometimes is useful ;)
[08:33] <jenda> hehe
[08:33] <jenda> not often, though.
[08:33] <jenda> but then again, he's banned while not in use ;)
[08:36] <Amaranth> somerville32: PriceChild was involved too
[08:36] <PriceChild> Hello.....?
[08:36] <Amaranth> and hobbsee
[08:36] <jenda> Amaranth: I believe he wasn't.
[08:37] <PriceChild> I'll brb.. nipping out for some choccy.... please explain :)
[08:37] <jenda> PriceChild: irc.m4lt.com
[08:37] <Amaranth> jenda: 3 of the 4 people i recognized from the long have admitted to it, he shows up in the log too
[08:37] <Amaranth> s/long/log/
[08:39] <jenda> funky, I can't find the log here.
[08:39] <somerville32> jenda: We have the server logs.
[08:41] <Amaranth> Personally what I'm most upset about is the lopsided punishments being handed out
[08:41] <somerville32> Amaranth, Yes and the most ironic part about the entire thing is that they contacted the ISP to report *Malt's* misbehaviour.
[08:42] <jenda> still can't find it, weird.
[08:42] <Amaranth> I yell at people on IRC and get in big trouble, you all do something that I'm pretty sure is a felony and get a slap on the wrist
[08:42] <jenda> Amaranth: it was no way that serious.
[08:43] <somerville32> jenda: How so?
[08:43] <Amaranth> And make me look stupid because I told malt there was no way one of you could have done such a thing
[08:43] <jenda> Amaranth: hm, I'm really sorry.
[08:43] <jenda> It was just plain stupid, that's for sure.
[08:46] <jenda> not even bip stored the log, dammit.
[08:46] <somerville32> I'm just completely shocked.
[08:46] <jenda> somerville32: could you please forward it to me?
[08:48] <somerville32> jenda: Sure. I'll do it in a bit when I get a chance.
[08:48] <jenda> ok
[08:48] <somerville32> Did apokryphos take part?
[08:49] <jenda> I don't think so.
[08:49] <jenda> somerville32: grep the log for Pricey, though - I'm quite sure he was there, but didn't say/do anything.
[08:50] <Amaranth> jenda: he spammed pi
[08:50] <jenda> ah, that's right.
[08:50] <Amaranth> [PriceChild]  Pi to one MILLION decimal places
[08:50] <Amaranth> [PriceChild]  3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679
[08:50] <Amaranth> and so on
[08:51] <jenda> hehe :)
[08:51] <jenda> that doesn't look good.
[08:51] <somerville32> Jenda, none of this looks good
[08:51] <Amaranth> jenda: you seem to have been the worst
[08:52] <Amaranth> When is the next meeting?
[08:52] <jenda> whoa, really?
[08:52] <jenda> tell me that ain't true.
[08:52] <Amaranth> http://www.m4lt.com/~unreal/malt.log
[08:54] <jenda> All I can say is, it seemed like fun at that moment. I didn't feel like we were hurting anyone, or doing any damage.
[08:55] <Amaranth> Seemed like revenge to me
[08:55] <jenda> I admit it's certainly un-CoC.
[08:55] <jenda> hm
[08:55] <jenda> I didn't feel vengeful, no.
[08:55] <Amaranth> un-CoC? it's not even legal
[08:55] <somerville32> not to mention un-LCoC as well
[08:56] <jenda> Amaranth: I count 76 lines, how can that be illegal?
[08:56] <jenda> (of me)
[08:56] <somerville32> jenda: Does it matter if it is 100000 lines or 76 lines?
[08:56] <jenda> somerville32: well, actually, yes - and no.
[08:56] <Amaranth> looks like a DDoS attack to me
[08:57] <jenda> yes, Amaranth.
[08:57] <jenda> I'm very sorry about that.
[08:57] <Amaranth> that's pretty illegal
[08:57] <jenda> I've never been involved in anything like that before, and as soon as I realised what I'm doing, I stopped.
[08:57] <jenda> It looked like having a bit of fun at a troll's expense.
[08:58] <jenda> Amaranth: why do you say I seem to be the worst of them there?
[08:59] <Amaranth> i suppose whoever fred is was worse
[08:59] <Amaranth> your stuff is mixed in with his, makes it look like yours was longer
[08:59] <jenda> well, I doubt that really matters.
[09:01] <jenda> It's the stupidest thing I've ever done. I know that, and I won't ever do it again.
[09:02] <somerville32> I don't think that really excuses what happened
[09:03] <jenda> somerville32: neither do I.
[09:03] <jenda> I'm accepting the consequences, and I'm sorry for it.
[09:04] <PriceChild> same :(
[09:04] <somerville32> This could be very bad press wise :/
[09:05] <jenda> I'd hope not.
[09:05] <jenda> I suggest giving my cloak for as long as deemed necessary.
[09:05] <jenda> somerville32: heh, I doubt it.
[09:05] <somerville32> jenda: They've posted stupider stuff :P
[09:05] <jenda> s/necessary/appropriate/
[09:07] <jenda> I haven't, really...
[09:08] <somerville32> I'm going to go speak with some wise people... lets see how we can get through this together as a team.
[09:10] <jenda> do as you must, somerville32
[09:11] <apokryphos> somerville32: I didn't take part. Though you could always ask me directly :)
[09:11] <somerville32> apokryphos, Did you take part? ;] 
[09:11] <apokryphos> somerville32: yes. We broke the walls down!
[09:11] <apokryphos> Seveas: any chance you could make ubotu rejoin #ubuntu-gr ?
[09:12] <somerville32> apokryphos, hehe!
[09:19] <Seveas> %join #ubuntu-gr
[09:21] <apokryphos> thanks =)
[09:21] <Seveas> !stop
[09:21] <ubotu> NOTICE - Please stop this discussion NOW. See !offtopic for things that are inappropriate to discuss in this channel. Insisting will result in actions being taken.
[09:22] <jenda> hehe
[09:22] <Amaranth> err
[09:22] <LjL> not my idea that :P
[09:22] <LjL> though i liked it
[09:22] <LjL> still, it doesn't really work on -offtopic since +c is set
[09:23] <apokryphos> -c in -offtopic is suicide
[09:24] <LjL> i know
[09:32] <mc44> should be "Insisting on continuing..." no?
[09:34] <LjL> i'm not the englishman
[09:34] <mc44> or just Continuing
[09:34] <mc44> rather than insisting
[09:35] <apokryphos> insisting is fine, but actions should be action
[09:35] <LjL> !stop is <regex> /Insisting/Continuing/
[09:35] <ubotu> stop is already known
[09:35] <LjL> blah. i got it wrong anyway
[09:35] <LjL> come to an agreement :P
[09:36] <apokryphos> though mc44 is right in that we probably mean continuing and not insisting
[09:36] <apokryphos> (though syntactically it's unproblematic)
[09:36] <LjL> !no stop is <regex> /Continuing/Insisting/
[09:36] <ubotu> I'll remember that, LjL
[09:36] <LjL> !no stop is <regex> /actions/action/
[09:36] <ubotu> I'll remember that, LjL
[09:36] <LjL> !stop
[09:36] <ubotu> stop is <regex> /actions/action/
[09:36] <mc44> LjL: no back again! :)
[09:37] <LjL> ... the bot page says that >:
[09:37] <LjL> ah no it doesn't :P
[09:37] <LjL> ok now i don't know what the code for bold is
[09:37] <mc44> well its irrelevant as it wont be bolded anyway, right :)
[09:37] <LjL> that's quite true
[09:38] <LjL> !no stop is <reply> NOTICE - Please stop this discussion NOW. See !offtopic for things that are inappropriate to discuss in this channel. Continuing will result in action being taken.
[09:38] <ubotu> I'll remember that, LjL
[09:38] <Amaranth> Ctrl-Shift-u2
[09:38] <LjL> u2?
[09:38] <Amaranth> u for unicode, 2 for 0x02
[09:39] <Seveas> moo
[09:39] <jenda> !stop
[09:39] <ubotu> NOTICE - Please stop this discussion NOW. See !offtopic for things that are inappropriate to discuss in this channel. Continuing will result in action being taken.
[09:39] <jenda> no bold.
[09:39] <jenda> :)
[09:39] <somerville32> test
[09:39] <somerville32> Weee :)
[09:39] <somerville32> It works
[09:39] <LjL> Amaranth: meaning i should actually type the letter "u" followed by 2? if so doesn't work here
[09:39] <Amaranth> yes
[09:39] <apokryphos> evil evil bold
[09:39] <Amaranth> LjL: it's for gtk apps
[09:39] <somerville32> I'm so cool :)
[09:39] <apokryphos> lalala
[09:39] <LjL> Amaranth: oh
[09:39] <Amaranth> i forget the control code for underline and reverse
[09:39] <apokryphos> green pastures; mmmm
[09:40] <Amaranth> test
[09:40] <somerville32> Warning. I'm cool.
[09:40] <apokryphos> Amaranth: surely you don't presume our gnome usability expert is using konversation ;-)
[09:40] <apokryphos> * LjL
[09:41] <mc44> *who* _needs_ *real* /formatting/
[09:41] <LjL> apokryphos: well it could be a generic X thing for all i knew
[09:41] <LjL> mc44: NOBODY!
[09:41] <TheSheep> ctrl+b works in irssi...
[09:41] <apokryphos> yeah
[09:42] <LjL> "add bookmark" here ;)
[09:42] <TheSheep> LjL: opera?
[09:42] <LjL> no konversation :)
[09:42] <LjL> and yes it has bookmarks
[09:42] <LjL> i'm not *entirely* sure what they are
[09:45] <TheSheep> lol, usability ftw
[09:47] <Amaranth> test
[09:47] <Amaranth> arg
[09:47] <nalioth> hope that wasn't a successful test of gravity with a heavy object
[09:49] <Amaranth> all the docs on the underline control code say it's \037
[09:50] <Amaranth> but that's the number 7
[09:50] <somerville32> Test.
[09:50] <somerville32> lol
[09:50] <somerville32> :)
[09:50] <somerville32> test
[09:50] <somerville32> Most interesting.
[10:13] <ubotu> In #xubuntu, apokryphos said: !free formats is <alias> freeformats
[10:14] <apokryphos> rejected
[10:15] <Seveas> !free formats is <alias> freeformats
[10:15] <ubotu> free formats is already known
[10:15] <Seveas> !-free formats
[10:15] <ubotu> free formats is <alias> codecs - added by apokryphos on 2007-01-22 22:13:53
[10:15] <Seveas> !-freeformats
[10:15] <ubotu> freeformats is <alias> codecs - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 19:15:07
[11:52] <LjL> (#ubuntu) ikonia again... see the comments on dash/bash. i *keep* not liking the attiutde
[11:52] <tonyyarusso> man....
[11:52] <tonyyarusso> LjL: Spoken to him/her yet?
[11:53] <LjL> well no. not sure how to take him/her
[11:53] <tonyyarusso> should be fun :X
[11:56] <LjL> geee
[11:56] <LjL> i knew him from since he joined (have him on highlight)
[11:56] <LjL> and i'm still slow enough to let 7 lines pass
[11:56] <tonyyarusso> eep
[11:56] <tonyyarusso> I just looked fishily at the nick
[11:56] <LjL> i looked fishily at the ident
[11:57] <LjL> he never changed it, it's always dp
[11:57] <LjL> if you look at the tracker, he's been doing this for ages
[11:57] <LjL> banned the ident now... i had the name banned, too, but then someone else was hit by that ban :-\
[11:58] <Seeker``> i dont think they had heard of  "subtle"
[11:58] <LjL> heh
[11:59] <LjL> hope not too many people would use "dp" as an ident
[12:00] <Seeker``> i doubt it
[12:02] <Seeker``> just a random person from ubuntu-uk
[12:02] <tonyyarusso> k
[12:02] <tonyyarusso> cool
[12:04] <Seeker``> its not a problem me being in her eisit?
[12:04] <tonyyarusso> Seeker``: Nope.
[12:05] <mc44> Seeker``: unless you start calling tonyyarusso names :)
[12:05] <LjL> tonyyarusso: seen the latest repeated message to cold_fire too? =)
[12:05] <maddash> is nalioth around?
[12:06] <LjL> if he is i believe you will know shortly
[12:06] <nalioth> maddash: yes, i am
[12:06] <tonyyarusso> LjL: yeah
[12:09] <Seeker``> how do you become ubuntu ops?
[12:09] <maddash> how do you become debian ops?
[12:09] <nalioth> Seeker``: you are asked to become one based on your input into Ubuntu
[12:09] <DBO> I slept with Seveas
[12:09] <nalioth> maddash: did you need something?
[12:10] <tonyyarusso> People chatter in hushed tones in darkened rooms over pizza with large men standing by the doors with intimidating looks, and then the short man in the suit comes out to the street and nods towards you.  If you return the nod the right way, you're in.  If not, concrete shoes for you.
[12:10] <mc44> DBO: was it good?
[12:11] <DBO> Seeker``, its not that glamorous, everything you do gets double and triple checked, and half the community hates you out of principle
[12:11] <maddash> DBO: good god.
[12:11] <Seeker``> DBO: What do the ops do?
[12:11] <maddash> nalioth: can I get an unaffil cloak?
[12:11] <DBO> Seeker``, we try our best to enforce the code of conduct
[12:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> tonyyarusso, lol
[12:12] <maddash> don't ops generally have a superiority complex?
[12:12] <nalioth> maddash: usually one /msgs me with these requests  :)  (you'll see why in a second)
[12:12] <DBO> maddash, I dont know, who are you to ask me these questions, you're nobody!
[12:13] <DBO> Im also made of solid gold
[12:13] <Seeker``> DBO: Mostly stopping trolls etc. then?
[12:13] <ubotwo> In #ubuntu-offtopic, tonyyarusso said: !music players is <alias> players
[12:13] <tonyyarusso> boo
[12:14] <tonyyarusso> oooh, nvm.  special bot
[12:14] <DBO> Seeker``, mostly
[12:14] <LjL> you must be the only one making aliases with names longer than the original ffactoid
[12:14] <DBO> ...thats true
[12:14] <LjL> tonyyarusso: i could add it but then i'd have to remember to sync it all with ubotu. which i won't :P
[12:14] <tonyyarusso> LjL: Music_Shuffle wanted it :)
[12:15] <tonyyarusso> LjL: Yeah, don't worry about it
[12:15] <Seeker``> DBO: Sounds like fun :P
[12:16] <DBO> Seeker``, yeah, some people pull teeth for fun too
[12:16] <DBO> we call them dentists I believe
[12:17] <DBO> "I want to make money, but I also want to hurt people"
[12:17] <DBO> you could try to become an EFnet op, but that doesnt pay
[12:17] <DBO> or you become a dentist
[12:17] <Seeker``> DBO: What made you decide to do it?
[12:18] <DBO> Seeker``, lack of warning
[12:18] <mc44> Seeker``: his love of justice, and pulling teeth
[12:18] <Seeker``> heh
[12:18] <Seeker``> hmmm, maybe someone should write an RFC :P
[12:19] <DBO> Seeker``, well I dont exactly pull the teeth
[12:19] <DBO> instead I kick with such force that the teeth get knocked out when their jaw hits their desk
[12:20] <Seeker``> how long have you been involved with ubuntu
[12:20] <DBO> mmmmmmm
[12:20] <LjL> tsk
[12:20] <tonyyarusso> My uptime got reset yesterday b/c in the 4:00 AM delerium I thought it would be fun to try compiz....
[12:21] <maddash> LOL
[12:21] <maddash> how'd it go?
[12:21] <tonyyarusso> Not good.
[12:21] <DBO> oh man you have no idea what fun it is to have probably one of the few boxes in the world that were originally upgraded from sarge all the way to edgy eft
[12:21] <LjL> beryl made you reboot? nice
[12:21] <DBO> compiz, not beryl =P
[12:21] <tonyyarusso> A dozen reboots and multiple driver configs later, nothing.  Oh, and my sound was muting ever time I rebooted.
[12:21] <LjL> yeah whatever
[12:21] <DBO> tonyyarusso, what video card?
[12:21] <nalioth> tonyyarusso is a non-screen+irssi using heretic
[12:21] <tonyyarusso> DBO: ATI Radeon Mobility X300
[12:22] <DBO> yeah
[12:22] <DBO> your screwed =P
[12:22] <DBO> why would you buy ATI
[12:22] <LjL> DBO: uhm... my server box is old enough, but i mean, i've rebooted it. if nothing else, because in 6 years power goes out at least once or twice, y'know......
[12:22] <tonyyarusso> DBO: I didn't know!  I didn't start on Linux until I'd had the box a couple of months.
[12:22] <maddash> tonyyarusso: thinkpad t43/t42?
[12:22] <tonyyarusso> maddash: T43, yep.
[12:22] <DBO> LjL, battery backups
[12:22] <maddash> tonyyarusso: wow. same here.
[12:22] <tonyyarusso> maddash: 2668-49U?
[12:23] <DBO> I have apache servers here at work with uptimes in the 7 years range
[12:23] <DBO> mostly because all they do is server one tiny internal page
[12:23] <DBO> that has one bit of it that updates dynamically
[12:23] <DBO> and thats it
[12:23] <maddash> tonyyarusso: 2686-M7U
[12:23] <Seeker``> DBO: you didnt answer the question
[12:23] <LjL> DBO: no kernel updates *ever*?
[12:23] <Seeker``> :P
[12:23] <DBO> LjL, why?
[12:23] <DBO> its not connected to the internet
[12:23] <LjL> hm well *shrug*
[12:24] <DBO> its only connected to around 30 boxes
[12:24] <tonyyarusso> DBO: Quinn_Storm and others have suspected it would work under the 'radeon' driver, but I don't know how.
[12:24] <DBO> tonyyarusso, it will
[12:24] <DBO> but
[12:24] <DBO> you have to get DRI working
[12:24] <DBO> and then fight it tooth and nail to get the right resolution
[12:24] <DBO> then again for the refresh rate
[12:24] <maddash> tonyyarusso: you sure fglrx isn't working out for you?
[12:24] <mc44> you all need an !o4ops factoid :p
[12:25] <LjL> err
[12:25] <LjL> he'ss right
[12:25] <DBO> Seeker``, I have been involved with ubuntu for many years
[12:25] <tonyyarusso> DBO: Well, I could give that a shot, if I knew what I was doing.
[12:25] <Seeker``> DBO: quite a while then
[12:25] <tonyyarusso> maddash: fglrx hates me.  Last spring it was hard lockup city.
[12:25] <tonyyarusso> mc44: true :S
[12:25] <DBO> fglrx hard locks often when switching to console
[12:25] <maddash> tonyyarusso: from resume, rah?
[12:25] <tonyyarusso> mc44: (we stop if something interesting happens)
[12:26] <maddash> DBO: you mean ctrl+alt+f2
[12:26] <tonyyarusso> maddash: Switching back and forth console / X
[12:26] <LjL> !music players is <alias> players
[12:26] <ubotu> music players is already known
[12:26] <DBO> tonyyarusso, are you running the radeon driver right now?
[12:26] <DBO> maddash, yes
[12:26] <tonyyarusso> LjL: beat you
[12:26] <maddash> tonyyarusso: it's fine over here
[12:26] <LjL> :P
[12:26] <LjL> tonyyarusso: it's for the best, as usual i had forgot to identify anyway
[12:26] <DBO> maddash, its on a per card basis
[12:26] <maddash> tonyyarusso: just add the "option composite disable" to your xorg.conf
[12:26] <maddash> DBO: we have the same exact card. roughly the same system.
[12:26] <tonyyarusso> maddash: Um, but don't we need that?
[12:27] <DBO> maddash, I mean literally per card (per revision even)
[12:27] <tonyyarusso> eek
[12:27] <DBO> tonyyarusso, running radeon or fglrx?