[12:15] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:16] <LaserJock> that's why I'm considering if we should move some things off the wiki
[12:28] <ScottK> LaserJock: Was that funny enough to get a package REVU out of you?
[12:28] <LaserJock> oh what the heck, what's the URL?
[12:28] <ScottK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4127
[12:28] <rmjb> Hey guys
[12:29] <rmjb> Happy New Year to all
[12:29] <LaserJock> hi rmjb 
[12:30] <rmjb> so... the MOTU meeting has already passed? I have it on my calendar as starting in 30 mins
[12:31] <ScottK> Yes, already passed.
[12:31] <Adri2000> rmjb: it was 20:00 UTC
[12:31] <rmjb> hmm... shoot... google calendar didn't handle the timezone properly and I didn't notice... d'oh
[12:35] <LaserJock> ScottK: you really don't want to be put in the Maintainer: field?
[12:37] <LaserJock> well, I'll leave it up to you. But sometimes it's nice to be able to look at Maintainer: for people who know about the package
[12:38] <ScottK> If I have to fix anything else, I'll change it, but if you'd be willing to advocate the package, I'd much rather get it on it's way to NEW.
[12:39] <sharms> so I am on revu, and I am looking at the apt-proxy package, and it looks good and the report said it builds ok.  Does this mean I request a sync, or is there something wrong I am not seeing?  Could someone hold my hand here for a few mins
[12:40] <sharms> or rather merges.ubuntu.com
[12:40] <LaserJock> sharms: have you looked for an existing sync request?
[12:41] <sharms> have not
[12:41] <LaserJock> apt-proxy is done I think
[12:41] <LaserJock> I don't see it on http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motutodo/universe.html
[12:42] <sharms> Ok so if I see a package on merges.ubuntu.com then it doesn't mean I should actually look it over for changes
[12:43] <LaserJock> hmm, hang on a sec
[12:44] <geser> sharms: apt-proxy is a special case due to bad versioning
[12:45] <sharms> ah I am just trying to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing and pretend I know what is going on
[12:45] <LaserJock> geser: yeah, I was just looking at that
[12:45] <geser> if you look into the changelog of 1.9.35ubuntu2 you will see that it's a merge of 1.9.35-0.1
[12:45] <LaserJock> it doesn't show up on my list I'm guessing because of the versioning
[12:46] <sharms> this package looks like we can just use the debian version though, or am I missing something
[12:47] <geser> sharms: the changelog mentions some remaining ubuntu changes
[12:47] <LaserJock> sharms: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/apt-proxy/+changelog
[12:47] <sharms> I am looking at: apt-proxy_1.9.35-0.1ubuntu1.patch
[12:47] <geser> and 1.9.35ubuntu2 > 1.9.35-0.1
[12:47] <sharms> from the update-merge script
[12:48] <sharms> ah ok
[12:48] <sharms> I see
[12:49] <LaserJock> but ubuntu2 is based on 0.1, right?
[12:49] <sharms> so in this case the best thing I could do to help would be file a report with debian qa and try to get those changes pushed into their package right
[12:50] <LaserJock> well, but the person that did the merge is the one that did the NMU
[12:51] <LaserJock> and at least that install bit is Ubuntu specific
[12:52] <sharms> I was looking at the init echo to  log_daemon_msg type things
[12:52] <LaserJock> I would think there would already be bugs about it but if not I guess you could file them :-)
[12:52] <sharms> ha I guess I am just striking out here
[12:53] <sharms> maybe I just need to stick to making controversial blog posts
[12:53] <LaserJock> ;-)
[12:53] <LaserJock> nah, if you want to file bugs fine, but I don't think there's anything that needs to be done on the Ubuntu
[12:53] <LaserJock> move on to another package :-)
[01:00] <geser> before ajmitch comes with his whip
[01:01] <TheMuso> c
[01:01] <TheMuso> bah
[01:07] <LaserJock> hmmm
[01:08] <LaserJock> ScottK: actually I'm not sure what to think about your creating a non-native package from a native package
[01:08] <ScottK> That's a legacy of the upstream including a /debian dir.
[01:08] <LaserJock> right
[01:08] <ScottK> I probably should have removed it, but I was trying to be minimally invasive.
[01:08] <LaserJock> which makes it a native package
[01:09] <LaserJock> but you packaged it as a non-native package
[01:09] <ScottK> I think the upstream changelog that makes it look native is in error.
[01:09] <ScottK> It's not meant to be a Debian only package.
[01:10] <ScottK> Sounds like I ought to just remove the upstream Debian dir and provide my own???
[01:10] <LaserJock> well, let me see if I can dig something up in Debian docs real quick
[01:11] <ScottK> Thanks.
[01:12] <sistpoty> LaserJock, ScottK: if there are any changes to the package, it shouldn't be a native package... however there is not a clear opinion about no changes==native (e.g. wxwidgets does this, but this is controversial)
[01:12] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I don't think there are any patches or anything
[01:12] <LaserJock> sistpoty: it's just that upstream ships debian/
[01:12] <ScottK> No.  There aren't any changes.
[01:13] <ScottK> BTW, I've asked him to remove it and he declined.
[01:13] <LaserJock> of course ;-)
[01:13] <sistpoty> ScottK: hm... is it debian/ubuntu specific? then it should be native. otherwise you can do as you please ;)
[01:13] <ScottK> It's not Debian/Ubuntu specific.
[01:13] <sistpoty> (though I'd personally prefer to have a non-native package, since it's easier to introduce changes then *g*)
[01:14] <ajmitch> geser: you mentioned a whip?
[01:14] <ajmitch> LaserJock: why would I need yet another team for motu qa?
[01:14] <sistpoty> ajmitch: because of the icon ;)
[01:14] <ajmitch> it's something everyone should be doing anyway
[01:15] <ajmitch> hm
[01:16] <LaserJock> sistpoty: should he just remove debian/ from the tarball? is mentioning that in README.Debian?
[01:16] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well I asked so I could join it of course :-)
[01:16] <ajmitch> why do people think I'm going to go crazy with a whip?
[01:16] <ajmitch> LaserJock: oh, of course
[01:16] <LaserJock> that's what QA means
[01:16] <LaserJock> QA == ajmitch with a whip getting people to do all his bidding
[01:17] <ajmitch> oh right
[01:17] <sistpoty> LaserJock: not quite sure... removing debian-dir looks cleaner, but it'll mean to change the tarball
[01:18] <ajmitch> LaserJock: what'd be nice for launchpad would be some way to tell if a source package is univer, main, or otherwise
[01:18] <ajmitch> for ubuntu
[01:19] <LaserJock> how does it not?
[01:20] <ajmitch> how can you tell by looking at a page, whether this package is main or universe?
[01:20] <LaserJock> if I go to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<packagename> it has a Component column
[01:20] <ajmitch> not very visible
[01:20] <LaserJock> ?
[01:20] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-proxy
[01:20] <ajmitch> one problem is that there's *lots* of information on some of these pages
[01:20] <LaserJock> you want it in the bug reports?
[01:20] <sistpoty> LaserJock: it'd also be nice, if I could know about the archive-queue of -proposed (my reports are merely based on comments of bug reports)
[01:21] <ajmitch> I'd like it if it was a little more visible if a package was officially supported or community-supported
[01:21] <LaserJock> sistpoty: yes, I was trying to think about that
[01:21] <sistpoty> hi raphink
[01:21] <LaserJock> ajmitch: where though? on the +source page or bugs or ?
[01:22] <LaserJock> sistpoty: yeah, I was thinking that the package names and perhaps versions should be available
[01:22] <ajmitch> any & all :)
[01:22] <LaserJock> sistpoty: the reason they don't have anything right now is that they aren't "accepted" yet
[01:22] <ajmitch> LaserJock: same problem as at freeze time - we can't see the unapproved queue
[01:23] <sistpoty> LaserJock: exactly... because the version is just not there yet... but there is a queue for e.g. edgy/dapper, but not for -proposed though
[01:23] <ajmitch> infinity had to dump out the queue contents for dholbach & I to approve them
[01:23] <LaserJock> ajmitch: why do you want that? So users know the difference?
[01:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: users & bug triagers
[01:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it may be a minor thing, and I'm just odd for thinking it'd be nice
[01:24] <LaserJock> well, no, it sorta makes sense. I think that it's pretty clean on +source pages
[01:24] <LaserJock> but not at all on bug reports
[01:24] <sistpoty> It'd greatly reduce the time I spend on motu-sru reports ;)
[01:24] <ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks for the comments.  I have to go deal with a hungry 3 year old. if there's a resolution on what, if anything, I should do about the provided /debian dir (my preference at this point would be to edit it more heavily than to remove it and have to repack the tarball) or any other comments, I'll read it in the scrollback.  Thanks again.
[01:24] <ajmitch> having to jump to another page is annoying
[01:25] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but there isn't another page to jump to
[01:25] <ajmitch> +source, as you said
[01:25] <LaserJock> but that's where you go anyway
[01:25] <ajmitch> not really
[01:25] <LaserJock> or do you not do that?
[01:25] <ajmitch> I always go to the bug pages
[01:25] <ajmitch> very rarely to the +source page 
[01:26] <LaserJock> +source/<packagename>/+bugs?
[01:26] <LaserJock> or to a specific bug?
[01:26] <geser> every bug report has a "source package" box in the left pane
[01:26] <ajmitch> lp is too slow for me to click through 10 pages to do what I need
[01:26] <sharms> so when I run the grab-merges script, and files end in .DEBIAN but there is no corresponding .UBUNTU, is that normal?  How do I merge changes between two packages with that diff?
[01:26] <ajmitch> LaserJock: depends which smart bookmark I use in firefox :)
[01:26] <LaserJock> ajmitch: right, which is why I use +source
[01:26] <LaserJock> ok, but it still seems that the only problem is bug reports, not +source pages
[01:27] <ajmitch> right, but it's still buried even if it's there
[01:27] <LaserJock> ?
[01:27] <LaserJock> it's right in your face
[01:27] <ajmitch> unlike the duplicate notice, for example
[01:27] <ajmitch> hardly
[01:27] <LaserJock> go to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-proxy
[01:27] <ajmitch> maybe in your face if you're looking for it over there
[01:28] <LaserJock> is it hard to find universe all over that page?
[01:28] <ajmitch> if you're not looking for it
[01:28] <LaserJock> hmm
[01:28] <ajmitch> and if you know the difference between main & universe
[01:28] <LaserJock> I just don't know how you can make it clearer than 11 "universe"s under Component
[01:28] <ajmitch> which are terms not necessarily used in the UI (gnome-app-install), etc
[01:29] <ajmitch> never mind then
[01:29] <sistpoty> maybe with colors?
[01:29] <LaserJock> ajmitch: no, no, I'm just trying to hash it out with you so I can have something clear and concrete
[01:29] <LaserJock> I was thinking of emblems
[01:30] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/f-spot/+filebug
[01:30] <ajmitch> no indication as to the package status there
[01:30] <ajmitch> no 'supported' emblem or notice
[01:30] <LaserJock> should it matter?
[01:30] <ajmitch> lp is just not consistent
[01:31] <LaserJock> I'm just not sure that we differentiate between Main and Universe as far as filing bugs
[01:31] <LaserJock> who get's to deal with them yes
[01:31] <ajmitch> response times, yes
[01:32] <ajmitch> if you don't think it matters, then fine
[01:32] <ajmitch> it was just an idea I had
[01:32] <ajmitch> rather than a major complaint
[01:32] <LaserJock> so something like "You are filing a bug for a community supported program. Please be patient while our volunteers work on your problem." or something
[01:33] <sistpoty> please attach a debdiff to the bugreport :P
[01:33] <LaserJock> I'm think it'd have to be clear what "supported" vs. "community supported" means though
[01:33] <ajmitch> yep
[01:33] <ajmitch> since plenty of main is just 'community-supported' :)
[01:34] <LaserJock> so the general idea is "don't yell at us we're just volunteers"
[01:34] <Burgwork> LaserJock: basically, there is no easy way to do that
[01:34] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I know
[01:34] <Burgwork> to most people, if we provide, we need to support it, a view I support (in theory)
[01:35] <ajmitch> Burgwork: I'm not saying we abandon the users
[01:35] <LaserJock> sure, but there *are* levels of support going on here
[01:35] <ajmitch> I want to make universe *less* buggy
[01:35] <ajmitch> not more, as it seems we do
[01:35] <LaserJock> we are currently getting a fair amount of "Why is this taking so long. You suck!"
[01:35] <LaserJock> some of that for sure is that we aren't doing so great
[01:36] <ajmitch> or "OMG how could ubuntu release this when it has critical bugs we fixed!"
[01:36] <LaserJock> but also it's unreal expectations of users
[01:36] <LaserJock> mhm
[01:36] <ajmitch> the emblem thing could be useful, if put in the right place
[01:36] <LaserJock> and was consistent
[01:36] <ajmitch> yep
[01:36] <LaserJock> any place where you saw a package name, more-or-less
[01:37] <LaserJock> well, I do notice that the little emblem in Synaptic is noticable to me
[01:38] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if it is for the average user or not
[01:38] <Burgwork> the emblem in gai is less than noticable and less than clear what it is
[01:38] <LaserJock> hmm, well I'm not quite sure how to do this in a way that the LP guys will like
[01:39] <LaserJock> but I can certainly put it on my list
[01:39] <LaserJock> it seems like we differentiate a lot between Main and Universe (different teams, gai, synaptic, repos obviously)
[01:40] <LaserJock> but there is nothing in bug reports that says anything about it
[01:42] <LaserJock> the thing for me though, is in practice I don't see a huge difference between Main and Universe when it comes to "supported"
[01:42] <LaserJock> I don't even know what "supported" is supposed to mean
[01:43] <ajmitch> canonical will support it commercially, there's meant to be X months of security fixes, etc
[01:43] <farruinn> I haven't been involved for a while, but I though main was supported by canonical, universe by volunteers
[01:44] <LaserJock> right, but traditionally we "support" releases for just as long
[01:44] <LaserJock> we just aren't paid to do it all day long
[01:44] <LaserJock> and commercial support seems sort of irrelavent to what we're talking about
[01:44] <_MMA_> (but do anyway)
[01:44] <LaserJock> ;-)
[01:45] <LaserJock> in practice, Main seems to fix bugs faster (although there are a lot of old Main bugs) but has more to fix
[01:46] <farruinn> could that be because main includes a majority of the most common/popular packages?
[01:46] <LaserJock> yes
[01:46] <LaserJock> kernel+Xorg+gnome is huge
[01:48] <LaserJock> I guess I'm just a little uncertain of what we are trying to tell users and the bug reporting/triaging/fixing consequences
[01:49] <farruinn> *reads scrollback* so it's users doing the yelling/complaining?
[01:49] <LaserJock> yes, basically
[01:50] <LaserJock> people get mad at us for not being quick enough or releasing packages that have bugs
[01:50] <LaserJock> and granted, we haven't been doing stellar there. But we *are* volunteers
[01:51] <LaserJock> and people seem to sometimes have too high of expectations
[01:51] <LaserJock> ajmitch: no, I wish you would discuss it more
[01:51] <Adri2000> LaserJock, sistpoty: you were talking about the proposed queue, it's just here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=1 but it's 403 for non archive admins (I guess)
[01:52] <LaserJock> Adri2000: exactly, we need access to it (at least parts)
[01:52] <ajmitch> LaserJock: heh, right
[01:52] <LaserJock> ajmitch: stress managment, you gotta vent sometimes ;-)
[01:53] <sistpoty> Adri2000: ah, nice
[01:54] <ajmitch> LaserJock: oh I will
[01:54] <LaserJock> sistpoty: my thought was to ask for them to give us a "sanatized" version of that url
[01:55] <sistpoty> LaserJock: /me wouldn't mind to have access to the queue as well :P
[01:55] <LaserJock> ajmitch: that amule bug on motu-reviewers almost landed me a CoC violation ;-)
[01:55] <LaserJock> sistpoty: we've asked about that before and ubuntu-archive doesn't want us mere mortals to see it ;-)
[01:56] <ajmitch> haha
[01:57] <sistpoty> hm... I guess time will tell... imo the more ubuntu-archive get's "spammed" with universe requests, the more likely is it that they'll hand in some of the powers to us
[01:57] <LaserJock> well, we've been there too
[01:58] <LaserJock> and so far archive admining requires too much access to Canonical machines for them to be ok with non-Canonical employees doing it
[01:58] <Adri2000> LaserJock: you are saying that ubuntu-archive don't want us to be able to see the content of the proposed queue?
[01:58] <LaserJock> Adri2000: that is correct
[01:58] <LaserJock> well, the content of that page
[01:58] <LaserJock> that's why it is forbidden :-)
[01:58] <Adri2000> from #ubuntu-devel two days ago:
[01:58] <Adri2000> Mithrandir	hmm, I thought the queue was supposed to be visible to everybody. :-/
[01:59] <LaserJock> right, but it's not
[01:59] <sistpoty> LaserJock: but the access to canonical machines seems more like a medium term solution to me... have you read the ubuntu-archive howto? seems kinda crude to get a package synced to me
[01:59] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I haven't read the howto, but I can imagine
[01:59] <Adri2000> LaserJock: but it seems Mithrandir is ok with that
[01:59] <sistpoty> LaserJock: it didn't sound *that* easy ;)
[02:00] <LaserJock> but that's why I'm said "so far" because I'm sure the plan is to get soyuz Canonical-independent at some point
[02:00] <sistpoty> s.th. like run that script and then wget that source and put it into that place and then... ;)
[02:00] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it has to be for them to have other distros using it
[02:00] <LaserJock> exactly
[02:01] <sistpoty> and we motu's make great guinea pigs :)
[02:01] <LaserJock> well, all  I can say is last time we asked they said it wasn't possible
[02:02] <LaserJock> and I haven't seen anything to suggest that anything has changed yet
[02:02] <LaserJock> so for now we are stuck with the ubuntu-archive bottleneck
[02:02] <LaserJock> hopefully mdz will relieve that some at the sprint
[02:03] <sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
[02:03] <LaserJock> Adri2000: well, I did say we can work on it. I belive last time it was mdz or cjwatson that said no
[02:03] <Hobbsee> hey sistpoty!
[02:04] <ajmitch> Hobbsee!!
[02:04] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
[02:04] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!  hey LaserJock!
[02:04] <LaserJock> ScottK: have a look at http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-origtargz
[02:05] <Adri2000> LaserJock: is it possible to add this topic to the next TB agenda? or it's not a good idea? :)
[02:05] <LaserJock> Adri2000: I don't think it warrants a TB decision
[02:06] <LaserJock> we can ask mdz/LP if we can get access and if not ask for a "sanatized" version
[02:06] <LaserJock> although ...
[02:06] <LaserJock> with our new SRU policy will we need access to that?
[02:07] <sistpoty> LaserJock: no
[02:07] <LaserJock> SRU was the only real need that I saw
[02:07] <sistpoty> hm... it's still nice to *have* access to it ;)
[02:07] <LaserJock> pretty much everything else goes at least to a visible queue pretty fast
[02:08] <LaserJock> well, sometimes "nice" is a bit hard to justify when work is involved
[02:09] <ajmitch> Toadstool: why?
[02:09] <sistpoty> LaserJock: being able to look at the queue for -proposed significantly reduces my time for sru-reports. Otherwise I can't tell the difference if a package was already uploaded or not
[02:09] <sistpoty> LaserJock: unless someone left a comment on the bug
[02:10] <Toadstool> ajmitch: 'cause he left the binary blobs that are removed in the debian orig tarball and I have to juggle with origs and that sucks :] 
[02:11] <LaserJock> sistpoty: but if a member of SRU does the upload they probably will probably say, and it *should* be fast enought that it wouldn't matter (optimistically)
[02:11] <ajmitch> Toadstool: oh nasty
[02:11] <Toadstool> yup
[02:12] <Toadstool> Rejected: md5 mismatch... yay!
[02:12] <sistpoty> LaserJock: in theory: yes
[02:12] <LaserJock> hehe
[02:12] <ajmitch> Toadstool: I presume it was the bios code?
[02:12] <Toadstool> indeed
[02:13] <LaserJock> sistpoty: well, I put it on my list of things to talk to LP (and probably this case mdz) about
[02:14] <Toadstool> ajmitch: is there any way to ask an archive admin for an orig tarball removal or an override?
[02:14] <sistpoty> LaserJock: btw.: the way I read mdz's reply to my mail regarding sru, I have a little bit the impression that he wants us to get in direct contact with LP devs rather than going the redirection mdz -> lp-devs
[02:14] <ajmitch> Toadstool: I doubt it a lot
[02:14] <sistpoty> but I may have read that wrong though ;)
[02:14] <imbrandon> ahhh finaly
[02:14] <ajmitch> Toadstool: 0.8.2+dfsg-0ubuntu1
[02:14] <sistpoty> hi imbrandon
[02:14] <ajmitch> imbrandon!
[02:14] <imbrandon> heya fella's
[02:15] <Toadstool> ajmitch: yep
[02:15] <LaserJock> sistpoty: actually, that is a good point
[02:16] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I'll bring that up, k?
[02:16] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, thanks
[02:20] <LaserJock> ok, so here's a quick list of LP bugs I've found so far that are interesting to us, I think:
[02:20] <LaserJock> * Bug watches can't be removed
[02:20] <LaserJock> * Bug mails should explain why the person is getting emailed.
[02:20] <LaserJock> * Attach files via email
[02:21] <LaserJock> * Should be able to link to a wiki page with bug filing guidelines per source package.
[02:21] <LaserJock> * Bugs have no fields to specify package or product versions
[02:21] <LaserJock> * Allow recording and use of canned searches
[02:21] <LaserJock> and * Malone/Launchpad should be CVE compatible
[02:21] <LaserJock> some of those are from 2005
[02:21] <imbrandon> ajmitch, where are those scripts on tiber ?
[02:21] <sistpoty> LaserJock: what's the 2nd one?
[02:21] <imbrandon> in usr/local/bin ?
[02:22] <ajmitch> imbrandon: /srv/revu1-production/scripts
[02:22] <imbrandon> kk
[02:22] <LaserJock> sistpoty: if a person is on multiple teams and they are getting emails, right now you can't tell which team you're getting the email from
[02:22] <LaserJock> this is happening to me a fair amount right now
[02:22] <LaserJock> I get all this bug email from LP
[02:23] <LaserJock> and I'm not really sure why I'm getting it exactly
[02:23] <ajmitch> it'd be good if it was in the headers at least
[02:23] <LaserJock> sometimes the context isn't enough
[02:23] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I think that's the plan
[02:23] <ajmitch> since it's easier to filter on mail headers
[02:23] <sistpoty> LaserJock: cool... I'd like to sort my bugmails by team somehow automatically :)
[02:23] <LaserJock> either that our a footer in the message, but that's not as easy
[02:23] <LaserJock> sistpoty: yeah, exactly
[02:24] <Hobbsee> dream on, ajmitch 
[02:24] <LaserJock> it's better than setting up a seperate list for each team
[02:24] <sistpoty> LaserJock: s.th. that would come in really handy is if someone from -sru or -swat could accept nominations for a release
[02:25] <LaserJock> hehe, sistpoty is full of all kinds of good ideas today :-)
[02:25] <sistpoty> LaserJock: no, I'm just trying to not work on my thesis *g*
[02:26] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: which of course means stacks of good ideas :P
[02:26] <sistpoty> hehe
[02:27] <Adri2000> LaserJock, sistpoty: I'd say even ubuntu-dev should be able to target for release, I don't understand why it should be more restricted...
[02:27] <LaserJock> well
[02:27] <LaserJock> I can kinda
[02:27] <sistpoty> Adri2000: I don't have a problem with that as well
[02:27] <sistpoty> LaserJock: you can?
[02:27] <LaserJock> I'm not exactly what it's used for
[02:28] <sistpoty> LaserJock: if you take a look at motu-swat's subscribed bugs, you'll get a clue ;)
[02:28] <LaserJock> well, if I was mdz and I was using the release targets to manage things, having ~80 other people (with varying understanding of what it's used for) being able to do that I can see where he might get a little nervous
[02:29] <ajmitch> especially if they rely on those lists of targetted bugs
[02:29] <sistpoty> LaserJock: well... LP could differentiate between main and universe
[02:29] <Adri2000> as I understand that, it's just a way to track a bug that is being fixed in a stable release
[02:30] <sistpoty> Adri2000: imo it's also used to track bugs that definitely need fixing after some schedules (e.g. BetaFreeze)
[02:31] <LaserJock> hmm, so is this for adding (Dapper) or (Edgy) tasks?
[02:31] <Adri2000> sistpoty: isn't that "milestone"?
[02:31] <Adri2000> LaserJock: yes
[02:31] <sistpoty> Adri2000: oh, nice... LP has too many features *g*
[02:31] <sistpoty> Adri2000: I guess it is. 
[02:32] <LaserJock> hmm, I thought that was freely available. I must have been using it before they stopped allowing everybody to do it
[02:33] <LaserJock> well, I should think that ubuntu-dev should be able to set release and milestone for Universe packages
[02:44] <sharms> so when I run the grab-merges script, and files end in .DEBIAN but there is no corresponding .UBUNTU, is that normal?  How do I merge changes between two packages with that diff?
[02:52] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[02:53] <ajmitch> night sistpoty 
[02:53] <LaserJock> darn, too slow
[03:01] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:03] <ajmitch> salut
[03:04] <bddebian> Hi ajmitch
[03:05] <LaserJock> hi bddebian 
[03:05] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[03:32] <ScottK> Laserjock: Thanks.  Since the reference you gave says "You should upload packages with a pristine source tarball if possible" that leans me in the direction of not repackaging it.  I can solve the native/non-native question with a little more pruning of the upstream debian/changelog.  Working on it now (and there's a bugfix update from upstream, so I'll capture that at the same time).
[03:44] <bddebian> Man, its quiet tonight
[03:45] <ajmitch> bddebian: people are busy hacking
[03:46] <bddebian> ajmitch: Ah cool, wanna review my package for me? :-)
[03:50] <ajmitch> no
[03:52] <imbrandon> pristine source tarball != tar streight from the upstream at times, pristine == good/great/godlike imho 
[03:52] <imbrandon> :)
[03:53] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[03:53] <imbrandon> heya bddebian 
[03:56] <ajmitch> bddebian: when i said people are hacking, that included me
[03:56] <imbrandon> hehe
[03:56] <imbrandon> bash/python to parse html == my hacking for the day
[03:57] <ajmitch> python script to convert a set of user details into a corresponding set of organisation details
[03:57] <ajmitch> what I'm doing for work right now
[04:00] <imbrandon> gah
[04:00] <imbrandon> i hate life at times
[04:00] <imbrandon> cut: the delimiter must be a single character
[04:01] <ajmitch> hehe
[04:01] <ajmitch> that's why python was invented
[04:01] <imbrandon> heh my python skills are very small though, i would be better off doing it in php-cli
[04:03] <ajmitch> ugh
[04:03] <ajmitch> php was meant for one thing, and that's being burnt at the stake
[04:04] <imbrandon> hahaha
[04:04] <imbrandon> i even do qt in php at times ;)
[04:04] <imbrandon> depends on how fast i need a prototype
[04:05] <ajmitch> or python at work when I can use it
[04:06] <chillywilly> python++
[04:06] <chillywilly> ruby+++
[04:06] <chillywilly> ;P
[04:08] <ajmitch> thank you for that useful contribution
[04:09] <bddebian> Heya chillywilly