[12:22] <LaserJock> what are you still doing up?
[12:38] <cbx33> nn guys
[04:20] <sbalneav> Evening all
[04:22] <ajmitch> hi sbalneav
[04:23] <sbalneav> Hello ajmitch
[08:07] <RichEd> morning
[08:07] <Burgundavia> morning RichEd
[08:08] <RichEd> hi corey ... how's things ?
[08:08] <Burgundavia> not bad
[09:45] <cbx33> Hey RichEd
[09:46] <RichEd> hey cbx33
[09:46] <RichEd> big up to cbx33 for his great work and enthusiam at BETT !
[09:49] <cbx33> hehe
[09:49] <cbx33> thanks RichEd
[09:49] <cbx33> howz it going
[09:52] <willvdl> cbx33, I never check the fridge :) did something go up?
[09:54] <RichEd> cbx33: good thanks ... feel alive again ... was badly badly sick on mon
[10:07] <cbx33> willvdl: not yet
[10:07] <cbx33> highvoltage: was sorting something out
[10:10] <willvdl> coooool
[10:10] <cbx33> how are you willvdl
[10:10] <willvdl> busy busy busy :)
[10:11] <willvdl> but good. how's LTCM coming? got screenshots?
[10:11] <highvoltage> cbx33: please ping me about that again later today btw
[10:11] <cbx33> highvoltage: will do
[10:11] <cbx33> willvdl: it's just TCM now
[10:11] <cbx33> and yes
[10:12] <cbx33> there are screenshots
[10:12] <willvdl> links links!
[10:12] <cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/
[10:14] <willvdl> looking good
[10:14] <cbx33> yup
[10:21] <cbx33> is ntfs write support stable yet?
[10:33] <willvdl> which are the edubuntu lists on ubuntuforums.org?
[10:42] <cbx33> ogra: I had herd 2 fail on me yesterday whilst building the ltsp root
[10:42] <cbx33> something about a malformed URI line 2
[10:42] <cbx33> in the the apt sources file
[10:43] <ogra> cbx33, that was fixed in the last iso we released
[10:43] <cbx33> ok cool
[10:44] <cbx33> thought I'd mention it to you
[10:44] <cbx33> what about dhcp auto generation
[10:44] <ogra> did you install with network connection and did it pull upgrades or something ?
[10:44] <ogra> (i reverted the quick fix so in that case it would break)
[10:44] <cbx33> i installed with network
[10:44] <cbx33> and built the root afterwards
[10:45] <cbx33> however I had big problems with the dhcp
[10:45] <ogra> (ltsp-build-client is run with "--sercurity-mirror none", the quick fix was to ignore that line, the real fix was to remove it completely)
[10:45] <cbx33> when it asks in the install which is primary network device
[10:45] <ogra> so if you have a half/half system due to network upgrades, it will break ...
[10:46] <cbx33> is that meant to be the ltsp side card
[10:46] <cbx33> or the internet side
[10:46] <ogra> internet indeed
[10:46] <cbx33> ok good
[10:47] <ogra> i'll talk to cjwatson to change the wording
[10:47] <cbx33> ok
[10:47] <cbx33> thanks
[10:47] <cbx33> now
[10:47] <cbx33> what about my dhcp problems
[10:47] <cbx33> someone else last night had the same issue
[10:47] <cbx33> the dhcp server didn't start automatically, because of a failure
[10:47] <cbx33> and the failure was that it was trying to setup the dhcp server on eth0
[10:47] <cbx33> not eth1
[10:49] <cbx33> the interfaces line in the /etc/defaults/dhcp(something) had no interfaces listed
[10:49] <cbx33> brb
[10:54] <cbx33> ogra: is that a known issue?
[10:54] <cbx33> it also didn't activate or setup eth1 with an ip address
[10:56] <ogra> cbx33, thats how it's supposed to be, never ever touch /etc/defaults/dhcp
[10:56] <ogra> else you break dhcpd's autodetection and are doomed to always use that setup ...
[10:56] <cbx33> sbalneav told me to
[10:56] <cbx33> well it wasn't doing the auto detection
[10:57] <cbx33> it also interferred with my main network.....I have no idea how
[10:57] <cbx33> as I have a dhcp server running there also
[10:57] <cbx33> well....it whinged about eth0 to begin with, and said it didn't have a subnet for it
[10:58] <ogra> it does the autodetection if a proper /etc/ltsp/dhcpd conf exists
[10:58] <cbx33> but it wasn't supposed to be setup on eth 0
[10:58] <cbx33> so assuming it just moves onto the next interface
[10:58] <cbx33> ??
[10:58] <ogra> right thats a warning from the autodetection
[10:58] <ogra> right
[10:58] <cbx33> but eth1 was never setup
[10:58] <cbx33> in the /etc/network/interfaces
[10:58] <ogra> it walks all interfaces and checks for a valid config
[10:58] <cbx33> is that the installers problem?
[10:58] <ogra> not really ...
[10:59] <ogra> did the dhcp config work right for the outbound interfaces ?
[10:59] <ogra> -s
[10:59] <cbx33> yes
[10:59] <cbx33> once I enabled the iface
[10:59] <cbx33> in the /etc/network/interfaces
[11:00] <ogra> if the netcfg config worked right and you selected the right outbound interface then its a bug in ltsp-client-builder if it didnt add the second one to /etc/network/interfaces
[11:01] <ogra> if you selected the wrong interface for outbund ltsp-client-builder is supposed to do nothing and show you a warning that you have to do it manually
[11:01] <cbx33> then it's a bug
[11:01] <cbx33> ;)
[11:01] <cbx33> does the client builder setup the iface then?
[11:01] <ogra> if you didnt get that wanring *and* didnt get a second iface configured even though you selected the right one in the first interface selection, tats a bug
[11:02] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-cd/+bug/81250 :)
[11:03] <cbx33> heheh
[11:03] <cbx33> ogra: is ltsp manager going to be ready for fesity?
[11:06] <ogra> not sure yet, python-ltsp will surely be ready ... not sure if i make it to get the gui part done
[11:06] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netcfg/+bug/81251 :)
[11:07] <cbx33> ok
[11:07] <ogra> we should look what parts of TCM we can merge into python-ltsp
[11:07] <ogra> (in feisty+1)
[11:07] <cbx33> yes defintely
[11:07] <ogra> i'd like it to be the central backend for everything ltsp related
[11:07] <cbx33> good idea
[11:08] <cbx33> i only foung out the other day you were doing it
[11:08] <ogra> its part of the spec :)
[11:08] <ogra> even though that doesnt talk about a python module :)
[11:08] <cbx33> haha
[11:10] <cbx33> ogra: well, as soon as you know about the ltsp manager I'd appreciate a nod, as it affects the edubuntu chapter quite significantly ;)
[11:11] <cbx33> we still update the nfs root by chrooting in right?
[11:11] <ogra> yep
[11:11] <cbx33> and ltsp-update-kernels
[11:11] <cbx33> for updating the kernel
[11:11] <ogra> even though python-ltsp shuld get a function for the most common stuff as well ...
[11:11] <cbx33> do we yet support multiarch?
[11:11] <ogra> only amd64/i386 ...
[11:11] <cbx33> I'll still tell them the old way for now
[11:12] <cbx33> and what how do you do 64
[11:12] <ogra> in either direction ...
[11:12] <cbx33> buid the nfs root on another mchine and coyp acrss?
[11:12] <ogra> ??
[11:12] <cbx33> oh
[11:12] <ogra> you mean powerpc ?
[11:12] <cbx33> you mean 64 boots from the 32 bit one?
[11:13] <ogra> there is an unfinished howto ... but since we drop ppc officially with feisty anyway, i'm not sure we need to cover it
[11:13] <cbx33> yikes do we...
[11:13] <cbx33> ok
[11:13] <ogra> that was the decision, yes
[11:13] <cbx33> so for 64 we basically do nothing right?
[11:13] <ogra> (i dont agree with it)
[11:13] <cbx33> as it boots from the 32
[11:13] <ogra> right
[11:13] <cbx33> ok cool
[11:14] <cbx33> I'm putting in about coexisting with another dhcp server and multi booting
[11:14] <ogra> you can have an amd64 chroot on a i386 server as well ... but i think thats a corner case ...
[11:14] <cbx33> ogra: I'll leave that one
[11:14] <ogra> please send it to me if you are done
[11:14] <cbx33> sbalneav is going to get me some trouble shooting tips
[11:14] <ogra> the dhcp stuff is pretty critical and needs to be perfectly right
[11:15] <cbx33> I was hoping you'd take a look through it and suggest changes ;)
[11:15] <cbx33> I know it is
[11:15] <ogra> well, he gave you a wrong hint already
[11:15] <cbx33> I know
[11:15] <cbx33> haha
[11:15] <ogra> thats why i'm worried
[11:15] <cbx33> it was basically just to get it working
[11:15] <cbx33> I don;t think he was saying to do it as a defaco solution
[11:15] <cbx33> though he didn't say it would break autodetection
[11:15] <ogra> right, but if you document it we'll end up without autodetection for many users :)
[11:15] <cbx33> oh no
[11:15] <cbx33> I won;t do that
[11:16] <cbx33> i just needed a working thin client
[11:16] <ogra> right, thats why i'd like to see it before publishing ;)
[11:16] <cbx33> yes I WANT you to
[11:16] <cbx33> no no...rephrase... you MUST
[11:16] <cbx33> oh and can my reboot button go on the ldm login page...i sent yo ua diff a while back
[11:16] <cbx33> pretty please ;)
[11:18] <cbx33> I'm trying to talk about feisty and dapper....as the book should be based on feisty but many peple will be running LTS
[11:18] <ogra> cbx33, sure
[11:20] <cbx33> do you want to see the chapter as it stands soon....
[11:20] <cbx33> or wait till like another week
[11:21] <cbx33> first draft is in by 8th Feb
[11:21] <cbx33> same date as FF
[11:26] <ogra> i'm to busy with other stuff now ... lets go over it if we discuss TCM
[11:27] <cbx33> yeh sure
[11:27] <cbx33> and I'm hoping you mean
[11:27] <cbx33> s/if/when
[11:27] <ogra> i mean sunday :P
[11:28] <cbx33> good
[11:28] <cbx33> :p
[11:37] <cbx33> ping willvdl
[11:37] <willvdl> pong
[11:37] <cbx33> did canonical contact the t-shirt guys yet?
[11:37] <willvdl> ajmitch, documentation? :)
[11:37] <ajmitch> pfft
[11:37] <ajmitch> who needs it?
[11:38] <ajmitch> :)
[11:38] <willvdl> cbx33, I hope so. will check
[11:38] <ajmitch> yeah, I'll try & write some, it's been on my todo list
[11:38] <willvdl> ajmitch, ag if the GUI's good enough, who needs help?
[11:40] <willvdl> ogra, where is the best LTSP support channel? #ltsp or here?
[11:41] <ogra> #ltsp for generic ltsp questions ... here for ubuntu ...
[11:41] <ogra> i think its really up to the user ... i wont force edubuntu users from #ltsp to here if they ask there (or the other way around)
[11:42] <ogra> the two main developers (sbalneav and me) are in both channels anyway
[11:42] <willvdl> cool. just updating list of irc channels for edubuntu users
[11:43] <cbx33> ogra: another one :p
[11:51] <willvdl> cbx33, being processed
[12:04] <ogra> cbx33, btw, is your key signed finally ? if so, just upload TCM ;)
[12:19] <cbx33> yes it's signed
[12:19] <cbx33> ogra: it's b0rked in it's current state ;)
[12:19] <cbx33> as in lots of things not setup
[12:19] <cbx33> like al the ssh key stuff
[12:19] <cbx33> that's where you come int
[12:19] <ogra> cbx33, yes, i dont care
[12:20] <ogra> feisty is in active development, things are supposed to break !
[12:20] <cbx33> ok
[12:20] <cbx33> I'll get a pacakge together
[12:20] <ogra> great
[12:20] <cbx33> well i need two now don;t i
[12:20] <cbx33> shuld I do the split now?
[12:20] <ogra> yep
[12:20] <cbx33> brb
[12:27] <highvoltage> ogra: I just did some bandwidth testing with the tuxlab diskless fat client implementation, and it only sends/receives a total of 110.16MB during boot
[12:27] <cbx33> nice
[12:27] <highvoltage> ogra: I'd imagine thin clients would read much less, so it's probably not worth putting the entire chroot into ramdisk for performance increases
[12:27] <cbx33> ogra: are the details of how to upload to universe?
[12:27] <cbx33> I've never done it before
[12:28] <highvoltage> ogra: I still think that caching the files to RAM more aggresively would be more optimal, it's just a question of figuring out how :)
[12:28] <ogra> cbx33, SCP is in main ... upload it anywhere and i can forward it ...
[12:28] <cbx33> oh i see
[12:28] <ogra> so your name sticks on the package
[12:28] <cbx33> i thought you mean upload it to universe
[12:28] <ogra> thats the important part ...
[12:28] <cbx33> ahh i see
[12:29] <ogra> if you ever go for main upload rights you will need sponsored packages in main
[12:29] <cbx33> ah i see
[12:31] <cbx33> the new code will have to be secutiry audited no?
[12:32] <ogra> nope ... onyl for main inclusion ... SCP is in main already
[12:32] <cbx33> crikey....but the code has changed dramatically
[12:32] <ogra> unless you actually *want* a security audit
[12:33] <cbx33> I'm happy with an ogra security audit
[12:33] <cbx33> obvioauly I've done my best...but remember I am still a fairly new coder
[12:33] <ogra> right, i'll look over it ... if i struggle i'll forward to pitti
[12:33] <cbx33> ok
[12:34] <ogra> lots of praise for you in #ltsp btw :)
[12:34] <cbx33> sounds ggggrrrrreat
[12:34] <ogra> i posted the screenshots  :)
[12:34] <cbx33> really? cool
[12:34] <cbx33> let's just hope it all works
[12:35] <cbx33> from 28th-1st I'll be addressing any TCM related issues from our discussion on sunday
[12:35] <cbx33> and after that it'll be book book book
[12:36] <ogra> oki
[12:40] <cbx33> what form will changes after FF take?
[12:40] <cbx33> just bug fixes?
[12:44] <willvdl> highvoltage, is it possible to make the http url icon for our wiki pages smaller? It seems rather large and messes up my line spacing :)
[12:45] <highvoltage> willvdl: link?
[12:45] <willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/WillVanDerLeij/ScratchPad
[12:45] <willvdl> for example. the globe icon thingy
[12:46] <willvdl> versus the globe in https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HelpOnLinking
[12:47] <highvoltage> willvdl: ah, now I understand
[12:47] <willvdl> or is it my browser settings? :)
[12:54] <willvdl> Edubuntu meeting in 6 minutes?
[12:55] <ogra> cbx33, yes, bugfixes ...
[01:00] <willvdl> hey pips1
[01:00] <willvdl> [01:00] <pips1> ah
[01:03] <pips1> ogra: there is an article on the thinstation project in the latest c't magazine, did you see it?
[01:04] <pips1> I'm talking about http://www.thinstation.org/
[02:03] <pips1> hi
[02:07] <pips1> willvdl: I really feel it would help to get in touch with RichEd, since both of us have talked a great deal about the whole *ubuntu "web galaxy" and how edubuntu and education fits into the big picture... also, I think RichEd has talked to Matt about it at 'All Hands', so I don't want start talking to Matt separately now, since I feel that RichEd show have the overview.
[02:08] <pips1> s/show/should
[02:08] <ogra> which matt are you referring to ?
[02:08] <pips1> Matt Nuzum
[02:08] <ogra> ah
[02:08] <ogra> (the other one is sitting next to me atm ... thought you meant mdz)
[02:09] <pips1> ah, no :)
[02:09] <pips1> You go on implementing ubuntu and edubuntu stuff, I'm just talking about web stuff :)
[02:10] <ogra> yep, grokked that now
[02:46] <willvdl> eek. my connection did a serious Swan Lake on me
[02:48] <pips1> you keep up your (good) humour though, eh?
[02:53] <highvoltage> cbx33: is CTM still very dependent on using SSH sessions, or can some of the functionality work on XDMCP too?
[02:53] <ogra> highvoltage, we wont support xdmcp
[02:53] <ogra> ever ...
[02:54] <ogra> (would be silly now that we will get unencrypted ssh connections in feisty if we want to)
[02:55] <ogra> ssh with encryption=none is exactly as fast as xdmcp ...
[02:55] <highvoltage> ogra: ooh, that's quite cool
[02:55] <ogra> cjwatson still has to apply the patch, but he promised sbalneav that we'll have it in feisty ...
[02:55] <highvoltage> ogra: the encryption slowness was/is a problem for many people
[02:55] <highvoltage> kewl :)
[02:55] <ogra> we wont encourage its use and it wont be easy to set up ...
[02:56] <ogra> but we wont have to maintain two different ltsp variants
[02:56] <ogra> or even ltspfs variants
[02:57] <highvoltage> ogra: do you perhaps know hoe unencrypted ssh compares to xdmcp bandwidth-wise?
[02:57] <ogra> its identical
[02:58] <ogra> sbalneav knows more about it ... i never used it
[02:58] <willvdl> did older ltsp use xdmcp?
[02:59] <highvoltage> willvdl: the older ltsp.org, yes. edubuntu has always used ssh
[02:59] <willvdl> gotcha
[03:00] <willvdl> so when people refer to diskless client networking (sic) using ssh, they are referring to something very similar to ltsp?
[03:02] <highvoltage> willvdl: XDMCP and ssh -X are two different methods of running graphical applications from a remote server
[03:02] <highvoltage> willvdl: LTSP has used XDMCP for years, it is quite easy to implement
[03:02] <highvoltage> willvdl: ubuntu uses SSH since it is more secure, all data sent over the network is encrypted
[03:03] <highvoltage> willvdl: the downside is that encrypting 20 sessions on a ltsp server gives it a hard performance knock
[03:03] <highvoltage> willvdl: which is why we stuck with XDMCP in tuXlabs
[03:03] <willvdl> yip.
[03:03] <willvdl> btw, I've heard of hard drives coming out with HW layer encryption
[03:04] <highvoltage> willvdl: but ogra says that when the option is there to disable encryption, ssh -X will then be just as fast as XDMCP
[03:04] <highvoltage> willvdl: although you'd loose the security, of course
[03:04] <willvdl> which is fine in a classroom I guess
[03:04] <highvoltage> willvdl: I'm not *too* bothered about the GUI being sent in clear in a lab, since you can just peek over someones shoulder if you *really* want to see what's going on on their screen
[03:05] <willvdl> will edubuntu work on a wireless network?
[03:06] <willvdl> not sure why I don;'t know that
[03:06] <highvoltage> not currently, but it will probably be possible at some point
[03:07] <willvdl> hmmmm
[03:07] <highvoltage> wireless brings lots of problems
[03:07] <willvdl> yeah. just thinking of negotiating the network booting has my head in a twist
[03:07] <highvoltage> for example, how would the wireless card know where to boot from, anyone would be able to do an attack by just bringing in another access point and letting the machines boot from that
[03:08] <willvdl> exactly.
[03:08] <highvoltage> so you'll need good firmware on the wireless card where you can set an SSID and a WPA key
[03:08] <highvoltage> either that, or you'll need to emulate a PCI ethernet card and run PXE/etherboot from that, and that card can drive the wireless card
[03:09] <willvdl> was just about to type that
[03:09] <willvdl> seems I'm not that far behind after all :)
[03:09] <highvoltage> or...
[03:10] <highvoltage> you boot the LTSP chroot from a local flash disk
[03:10] <highvoltage> and run the session over wlan
[03:10] <ogra> wireless would require kernel and initramfs on a CD or something
[03:10] <highvoltage> ogra: snap :)
[03:10] <ogra> additionally its not easy to get the wpa/wep and the essid stuff in
[03:11] <willvdl> so then you just hack the flash disk to boot off your own access point...
[03:11] <ogra> you would need to patch the kernel to accept them as bootoptions
[03:11] <highvoltage> willvdl: you could do that, kind of, but people would be able to figure out from the config what the MAC address of the AP is, as well as the WEP key, and they could spoof that info
[03:12] <highvoltage> willvdl: well, and besides the difficult security, wireless doesn't currently provide much in the sense of bandwidth
[03:12] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:12] <willvdl> hmmm
[03:12] <highvoltage> hi sbalneav
[03:13] <sbalneav> Hey highvoltage!
[03:13] <highvoltage> sbalneav: have you played with ssh -x without encryption yet?
[03:13] <willvdl> it's intersting: technically it is feasable, but conceptually it is less so
[03:13] <willvdl> normally things are the other way round :)
[03:13] <sbalneav> highvoltage: That's what we're running around here now.  I patched ssh to allow the -c none option.
[03:13] <ogra> rather -X ;)
[03:13] <highvoltage> indeed :)
[03:14] <sbalneav> -X ?
[03:14] <sbalneav> Ah, no, that works fine.
[03:14] <highvoltage> sbalneav: does it work as nicely as XDMCP?
[03:15] <sbalneav> It's still slower than xdmcp, but it's nowhere near as bad.  It certainly is usable on my workstations.
[03:15] <sbalneav> I think the slowness now is merely the added constant context switching between X sending a packet, and then ssh having to process it, and forward.
[03:16] <sbalneav> Installed edubuntu herd2 last night.  Got bitten by the i82365/pcmcia hang bug
[03:16] <sbalneav> that took me a while to work around.
[03:16] <ogra> yeah, seems many people get that
[03:16] <sbalneav> until I found the boot param hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false
[03:16] <sbalneav> then everything went fine.
[03:17] <sbalneav> ltsp chroot failed to build, but I knew that was coming.
[03:17] <sbalneav> left it updating all the patches when I went to sleep.
[03:17] <ogra> hmm, it shouldnt ...
[03:17] <ogra> i fixed the wrong mirror line ...
[03:17] <ogra> debian introduced that
[03:17] <sbalneav> Ah, but I downloaded the iso.
[03:18] <ogra> yeah and i fixed it on the iso ...
[03:18] <sbalneav> I don't have the rsync thing set up yet.  Have you updated that script of yours?
[03:18] <ogra> only with a quick fix though ... which i reverted a day after the iso was released
[03:18] <ogra> weird that you still got that error ...
[03:19] <ogra> cbx33 reported it as well ..
[03:22] <sbalneav> Oh, look, there's an update for libsoup
[03:22] <sbalneav> Mmmmm, soup
[03:22] <SiCk> im in here ogra :D
[03:23] <ogra> good ...
[03:23] <SiCk> I'm not sure i completely understand how to jump this into kiosk mode
[03:23] <SiCk> even after reading this
[03:23] <ogra> do the following:
[03:23] <ogra> export ROOT=/opt/ltsp/i386
[03:24] <ogra> sudo echo 'copy_dirs="$copy_dirs /home"' >> $ROOT/etc/defaults/ltsp-client-setup
[03:24] <ogra> sudo echo 'rw_dirs="$rw_dirs /var/lib/gdm"' >> $ROOT/etc/defaults/ltsp-client-setup
[03:24] <ogra> err, ah, crap ...
[03:24] <ogra> better:
[03:24] <ogra> sudo -i
[03:24] <ogra> echo 'copy_dirs="$copy_dirs /home"' >> $ROOT/etc/defaults/ltsp-client-setup
[03:24] <ogra> echo 'rw_dirs="$rw_dirs /var/lib/gdm"' >> $ROOT/etc/defaults/ltsp-client-setup
[03:24] <ogra> LC_ALL=C chroot $ROOT adduser --disabled-password --gecos ,,, kiosk
[03:25] <ogra> echo "#!/bin/sh" > $ROOT/home/kiosk/.xsession
[03:25] <ogra> echo "/usr/bin/firefox --fullscreen" >> $ROOT/home/kiosk/.xsession
[03:25] <ogra> cp $ROOT/etc/gdm/gdm.conf $ROOT/etc/gdm/gdm-kiosk.conf
[03:25] <ogra> etc etc ... just copy n paste the lines from the wikipage
[03:25] <SiCk> where do you pull this from in your head, you're a mad man. haha
[03:25] <ogra> i dont
[03:26] <ogra> i have a browser to copy/paste it :P
[03:26] <SiCk> ahh haha
[03:26] <ogra> i pulled it from my head when i wrote the wikipage though :)
[03:27] <SiCk> this is all in the terminal yes?
[03:28] <SiCk> cause im seeing none of what you wrote there in the wiki.. or am i getting confused for no reason here
[03:29] <SiCk> ah, wait i didnt see err ah crap better:
[03:29] <SiCk> haha hold on
[03:30] <SiCk> still get no such file or directory
[03:30] <highvoltage> anyone perhaps know how I can pass NFS options when / is mounted on the thin client?
[03:31] <juliux> hi
[03:31] <highvoltage> for example, I'd like to do proto=tcp, for example
[03:31] <highvoltage> hi jules
[03:31] <juliux> hi highvoltage
[03:32] <juliux> highvoltage, today we get the first snow:(
[03:32] <highvoltage> juliux: wow, isn't it a bit late?
[03:33] <juliux> highvoltage, yes it is very late
[03:33] <juliux> normaly we get the first snow in november
[03:33] <highvoltage> it's very hot here right now. you are welcome to through some snow over :)
[03:34] <juliux> highvoltage, via ship or airplane?
[03:34] <juliux> ;)
[03:34] <highvoltage> juliux: just through it very, very far ;)
[03:34] <juliux> highvoltage, ok
[03:40] <willvdl> is ubuntuforums.org an "official" ubuntu channel?
[03:41] <ogra> SiCk, you do all of that on the server
[03:41] <juliux> willvdl, you can call it offical
[03:41] <pips1> willvdl: I don't think it is official. it is community managed
[03:41] <ogra> highvoltage, in pxelinux.cfg/defailt
[03:41] <ogra> *default
[03:42] <juliux> willvdl, but canonical is paying the server
[03:42] <pips1> right
[03:42] <willvdl> do you reckon I could list the forums as an Edubuntu Community communication channel?
[03:42] <juliux> willvdl, so it is the most offical forum
[03:42] <willvdl> there is some good stuff in there...
[03:42] <pips1> willvdl: nope
[03:42] <juliux> willvdl, is there an edubuntu subforum? are there edubuntu supporters?
[03:43] <pips1> willvdl: where do you want to publish that info?
[03:43] <juliux> willvdl, in germany we have a subforum and supporters;)
[03:43] <willvdl> pips1, as part of "Getting in touch with Edubuntu Community"
[03:43] <willvdl> juliux,not really, the forums are not broken into ditro
[03:43] <willvdl> distro rather
[03:44] <pips1> for now, it is better to direct new people to the mailing lists
[03:44] <juliux> willvdl, i think mailinglist or irc is better
[03:44] <pips1> the new community website will feature a forum specific to edubuntu
[03:45] <willvdl> agreed. just thinking that we could list the forums as a source of info, even though not official edubuntu channel
[03:45] <juliux> cu later my battery is empty
[03:45] <willvdl> ciao
[03:45] <pips1> you can list it as a resource for technical information on the shared base with ubuntu
[03:45] <willvdl> pips1, a lot of edubuntu users will end up on ubuntuforums for tech support regardless of the community site
[03:45] <pips1> yep
[03:46] <pips1> we want them to go to ubuntuforums for technical stuff
[03:46] <SiCk> ogra, i tried it, and got on the second line - no such file or directory
[03:46] <willvdl> cool. I'll put in a reference like that and then we can see what it looks like before publishing
[03:46] <highvoltage> ogra: so where in that file would I add the NFS option? I understand it's what gets appended to the kernel line, I'm just not sure how to pass the NFS option
[03:47] <pips1> willvdl: ok
[03:47] <ogra> SiCk, but you exported the ROOT variable and started after i wrote "better:" above ?
[03:48] <SiCk> yeah
[03:49] <SiCk> -bash: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/defaults/ltsp-client-setup: No such file or directory
[03:50] <highvoltage> SiCk: dtop the s in defaults
[03:50] <SiCk> wahey
[03:50] <SiCk> well called
[03:51] <ogra> oh, wait ... indeed
[03:51] <ogra> change "defaults" to "default"
[03:51] <ogra> thanks for finding a typo in the wiki :)
[03:52] <ogra> highvoltage, the nfs page on teh ltsp wiki has the right line at the bottom
[03:52] <highvoltage> ogra: ok, I'll look there
[03:52] <highvoltage> ogra: thanks
[03:53] <SiCk> next problem... sorry for being a pain
[03:53] <SiCk> -bash: !/bin/sh": event not found
[03:54] <SiCk> it was looking so promising there too!
[03:54] <SiCk> haha
[03:54] <ogra> but you are root thriough the sudo -i ?
[03:54] <SiCk> yeah
[03:54] <SiCk> i'm actually logged in as root at the moment
[03:54] <SiCk> figured it'd save time
[03:54] <ogra> on the server ?
[03:54] <bddebian> Heya
[03:54] <SiCk> yeah
[03:54] <ogra> thats not necessary
[03:55] <ogra> sudo -i is as good and you dont need to make your system insecure through an enabled root account
[03:55] <SiCk> well its a secure closed network anyway, so we're good at the moment. It's only me using it
[03:56] <willvdl> and me ;)
[03:56] <SiCk> gasp
[03:58] <SiCk> arrest that man!
[04:07] <ogra> heh
[04:08] <ogra> SiCk, you dont need all the echo stuff, just look to which file it's added and edit it with nano
[04:08] <ogra> (or vi)
[04:13] <SiCk> ogra, apparently i have no /usr/bin/firefox , surely thats not right?
[04:13] <SiCk> i had a check, and it seems to be missing
[04:16] <ogra> did you install it ?
[04:16] <ogra> LANG=C apt-get install firefox gdm ....
[04:17] <ogra> if you are in the chroot
[04:17] <SiCk> ahh, sorry, missed the line
[04:17] <SiCk> thanks again :S
[04:27] <SiCk> ogra: this just totally isnt agreeing with me
[04:28] <ogra> whats wrong ?
[04:28] <SiCk> well im sitting in the $ROOT
[04:28] <SiCk> i run LANG=C apt-get install firefox gdm
[04:29] <SiCk> first of all it did all it needed to do, installed etc
[04:29] <ogra> did you chroot $ROOT ?
[04:30] <ogra> else the command needs to be: chroot $ROOT LANG=C apt-get install firefox gdm
[04:31] <SiCk> yeah, when i do both, it's trying to grab from cdrom + dapper/main xxxxxx
[04:31] <SiCk> should it not be going to the net?
[04:31] <SiCk> ill try throwing the edubuntu cd in
[04:32] <ogra> either that or copy /etc/apt/sources.list to $ROOT/etc/apt/sources.list and run "chroot $ROOT apt-get update"
[04:32] <pips1> if you installed with a cd, it looks for the cd for packages that exist on the cd. (to save bandwidth). afaik
[04:33] <SiCk> ah okay
[04:34] <pips1> but you can change it to download from the www always, if you want to. either do that in synaptic, or change the sources.list manually, if you know what you are doing
[04:35] <ogra> (not with synaptic ... at least in the client chroot)
[04:37] <SiCk> right now this is just playing with me, its pretending it cant see /opt/ltsp/i386
[04:38] <SiCk> restarting the piece of crap.
[04:38] <SiCk> grr
[04:38] <pips1> heh
[04:42] <SiCk> back to Couldn't find package firefox
[04:42] <SiCk> bahh
[04:45] <SiCk> i'm totally confused with this... after the restart it was fine, a few commands later and the whole directory listing only in terminal is missing
[04:47] <SiCk> slowly going insane :)
[04:49] <willvdl> pips1, have a look at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/WillVanDerLeij/ScratchPad up untill the thick red line
[04:49] <willvdl> still going to add info on the website and wiki site
[04:50] <willvdl> followed by "how to get involved" => launchpad etc.
[04:56] <ogra> SiCk, you dont work on the termina, do you ?
[04:56] <ogra> (all that stuff is done on the server)
[04:56] <SiCk> no, i'm doing all this on the server
[04:57] <ogra> ok
[04:57] <SiCk> it cant find the packages to install them
[04:57] <ogra> and you copied the sources.list ?
[04:57] <SiCk> before and after copying the sources
[04:57] <SiCk> yeah
[04:57] <ogra> and ran apt-get update in the chroot ?
[04:57] <ogra> (chroot $ROOT apt-get update)
[04:58] <SiCk> ah, i'd missed the chroot $ROOT apt get
[04:59] <SiCk> i was just updating what was already there
[04:59] <SiCk> weee :) installing.
[04:59] <SiCk> i'm like a little child at christmas
[04:59] <SiCk> with a really hard to make toy
[04:59] <ogra> if you want to do anything in te client environment just prefix it with "chroot /opt/ltsp/i386"
[04:59] <pips1> willvdl: I read your ScratchPad page, looking good
[04:59] <SiCk> ah, cool
[05:00] <SiCk> i'm starting to get the hang of everything.. it just takes time i guess
[05:00] <willvdl> pips1, thinking now on how to do a "landing page"
[05:00] <ogra> you can also juat run "chroot /opt/ltsp/i386", that makes you root in the client environment ... do all your changes and hit ctrl-d in the end
[05:00] <willvdl> www.e.org has links to the various sub-sections: download, community etc
[05:01] <ogra> s/juat/just/
[05:01] <pips1> willvdl: I think you should remove Jerome Gotangco and his email address as a personal contact, he is taking a break from edubuntu to focus on work at the moment, afaik
[05:01] <willvdl> whereas wiki.e.org/EdubuntuWiki would probably do the same
[05:01] <SiCk> i like it, at least its doing something now! :)
[05:01] <willvdl> pips1, below the thick red line will go elsewhere and change, yes
[05:01] <SiCk> thanks again, i know i'm a bit of a pain, but i've got a pain above me too... hah
[05:01] <SiCk> bibt of pressure
[05:02] <willvdl> pips1, I'm thinking of using the Edubuntu namespace in the wiki and wondering if its a good idea
[05:03] <willvdl> i.e. wiki.e.o/Edubuntu is the home
[05:03] <willvdl> with links to sub pages either like: wiki.e.org/EdubuntuCommunity or wiki.e.org/Edubuntu/Community
[05:03] <willvdl> which would you prefer?
[05:04] <pips1> hmm
[05:04] <pips1> is there any difference in functionality in-between the two?
[05:04] <pips1> e.g. what if you use search of the wiki?
[05:05] <willvdl> I'm not sure there is a difference.
[05:05] <pips1> does it matter if pages are EdubuntuCommunity or Edubuntu/Community ?
[05:05] <SiCk> ogra: does * Starting Hardware abstraction layer hald usually take over 5 minutes? :s
[05:05] <willvdl> it's probably more a question of convention
[05:06] <willvdl> pips1, as far as I know it's just a mod-rewrite thing
[05:06] <SiCk> oop , spoke to soon, here it goes
[05:06] <pips1> my questions is: if you search for 'Edubuntu community', will it find both 'EdubuntuCommunity' and 'Edubuntu/Community' regardless?
[05:06] <ogra> SiCk, nope ... where do you see that ?
[05:06] <willvdl> it should. I could test that, but it should
[05:08] <pips1> and what if you search for 'Community', will it find 'EdubuntuCommunity' or only 'Community' ? (I suppose it will find both, but the ranking will be different)
[05:08] <willvdl> I like the Edubuntu/XXX idea cause then you can easily list sub-pages to a page using macros
[05:08] <pips1> macros? how do you do that?
[05:09] <willvdl> check the bottom of https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DocumentationTeam
[05:09] <pips1> ah, ic
[05:10] <willvdl> do this: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Cleanup?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=edubuntu+community&titlesearch=Titles
[05:10] <pips1> I see the benefit of that
[05:10] <willvdl> see the ranking
[05:11] <pips1> ic
[05:11] <willvdl> AFAIK sub-pages are the way to go (according to wiki help)
[05:12] <pips1> my only question/reservation is that our edubuntu-specific pages might get "crowded out" by "ubuntu-specific" pages over time if you search for sub-terms... ?
[05:12] <willvdl> also, try https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuComm and see the ranking that comes up
[05:13] <willvdl> is the same as https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Comm
[05:14] <SiCk> ogra, do i need to change anything to force the client to boot into kiosk? or will this set it to automatically do it?
[05:14] <pips1> I mean, since all pages are in one repository, searching for 'community' will bring up pages from ubuntu on top, rather than edubuntu ones, supposedly
[05:14] <pips1> ?
[05:14] <ogra> SiCk, the client should automatically boot into a local gdm now
[05:14] <pips1> the "Existing pages with similar names:" ranking from your EdubuntuComm example is interesting
[05:14] <ogra> if you have created a user and set it to autologin it should just work
[05:15] <willvdl> pips1,yeah it is weird
[05:15] <willvdl> almost like syndicated links :)
[05:15] <SiCk> trying it now ogra..
[05:15] <SiCk> wish me luck
[05:15] <SiCk> haha
[05:16] <ogra> i do
[05:16] <pips1> Well, my guess is that all those Kubuntu, Ubuntu "Comm" pages are more referenced internally from other Kubuntu / Ubuntu pages, so they rank higher...
[05:16] <pips1> that's what I meant by "being crowded out"
[05:17] <pips1> willvdl: does what I said make sense ?
[05:17] <willvdl> yeah but I don't think moin searches like google with internal reference ranking
[05:18] <willvdl> namespace searching like https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Comm is one thing
[05:18] <willvdl> using the search facility is another
[05:20] <pips1> well, we are trying to cater for non-technologists, right? these people are used to browsing (hierarchical) menus and searching in a simple way
[05:20] <willvdl> pips1, I honestly think it's the same thing, moin just uses mod-rewrite to change the url sensibly
[05:20] <pips1> ok
[05:20] <pips1> go ahead and used the /
[05:20] <pips1> I like it better too
[05:21] <willvdl> pips1, my end goal is to make it so the EVERYTHING is easily referenced off a few landing pages :)
[05:21] <willvdl> so that searching is not needed :)
[05:21] <willvdl> let them search help.u.com
[05:21] <willvdl> okie
[05:22] <pips1> I'm just thinking that we should advise people that they need to include the term "Edubuntu" in their wiki searches on w.e.o... the domain name suggests that you are in the "edubuntu" namespace, while in fact you are not, you are in a shared ubuntu/edubuntu wiki namespace. this is the main confusion.
[05:23] <willvdl> yip. hoping to include that in that scratchpad page
[05:23] <pips1> great
[05:23] <willvdl> you are very correct there
[05:25] <pips1> browsing in probably indeed the preferred navigation for non-technologists, but google has popularised 'search' trememdously, so even newbies, will try searching if they don't quickly find it through browsing
[05:30] <pips1> quick question: To create a new (sub)page off '/Edubuntu', do I need to enter 'Edubuntu/Something' to get the empty new page ?
[05:31] <willvdl> yip
[05:32] <pips1> yeah, sorry for the silly question, I should have just gone ahead and tried it right away :-)
[05:32] <willvdl> pips1, searching offers by title or by text
[05:32] <pips1> yep
[05:32] <willvdl> by text doesn't matter what the title is
[05:32] <willvdl> and by title doesn't seem to distinguish between seperate "words" in the wikiname
[05:33] <willvdl> it's rather interesting and possibly quite clever :P
[05:33] <pips1> hehe
[05:33] <willvdl> I just like the formatting in the drupal site...it's neater
[05:34] <willvdl> colours and all
[05:34] <willvdl> but hey, it's not about me :)
[05:34] <highvoltage> sbalneav: I can't access http://wiki.ltsp.org/ , problem on my side or with the LTSP webserver?
[05:35] <pips1> highvoltage: can't get through from here either
[05:36] <SiCk> ogra, you around?
[05:36] <ogra> SiCk, yep
[05:37] <SiCk> i tried figuring this one out for myself, but i've had no luck
[05:37] <SiCk> i'm getting (on the client) Cant open file /usr/share/gdm/themes/Human/Human.xml
[05:37] <SiCk> i tried going to the gdm-kiosk.conf and changing the default theme to one i know is there
[05:37] <SiCk> but with no avail
[05:38] <willvdl> pips1, what do you think a good name for that scratchpad page would be? E/CommunityContact? E/CommunityChannels? E/Community/GettingInTouch?
[05:38] <ogra> you did run the update-alternatives line from the wiki ?
[05:39] <SiCk> yep.. though it did show me what the identifiers meant, it didnt as such tell me it was completed.
[05:41] <pips1> willvdl: surely there is an ubuntu page? what does that one use?
[05:41] <pips1> sorry I'm a bit busy at work, at the mo
[05:42] <SiCk> ah an error
[05:42] <ogra> look where the link in /etc/alternatives in the chroot points to
[05:42] <SiCk> update-alternatives --install needs <link> <name> <path> <priority>
[05:43] <willvdl> pips1, well http://www.ubuntu.com/communit doesn't have the detail we do so they jsut link to individual pages under a Help & Information sub-heading.
[05:43] <willvdl> I could do that but it would be a waste of sub-pages since the information is thin
[05:43] <SiCk> there are no gdm links in alternatives
[05:44] <ogra> SiCk, should be gdm-config-derivative
[05:45] <SiCk> nope, not there
[05:46] <SiCk> the only thing i can see thats missing from the command is that it's missing a priority maybe
[05:46] <SiCk> ?
[05:46] <ogra> LC_ALL=C chroot $ROOT update-alternatives --install /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf gdm-config-derivative
[05:46] <ogra> did you run that ?
[05:47] <SiCk> yep
[05:47] <SiCk> i get the same thing
[05:47] <SiCk> i threw 1 in at the end... seems to have accepted it
[05:47] <ogra> $ROOT is still set ?
[05:47] <SiCk> did i do bad things?
[05:48] <pips1> willvdl: from the above, I like 'E/Community/GettingInTouch' best, but will there be a page at 'E/Community' ?
[05:48] <ogra> nope, you missed teh linebrak in teh wiki (as i did) try: LC_ALL=C chroot $ROOT update-alternatives --install /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf gdm-config-derivative /etc/gdm/gdm-kiosk.conf
[05:49] <SiCk> crap.. i gotta run here ogra... work are kicking me out, which isnt a bad thing! early home. haha... i just ran that and im booting the kernel now
[05:49] <pips1> willvdl: so you might just go for 'E/Community'
[05:49] <SiCk> thanks for all your help, i'll probably talk to you tomorrow if you're around
[05:49] <willvdl> pips1, I think so. just a page that shells out links to the code of conduct, contacts, how & where etc
[05:49] <ogra> SiCk, i'll be around
[05:49] <SiCk> still starstruck ;) you're awesome! haha
[05:49] <ogra> as i said we're at a hack sprint ...
[05:50] <SiCk> ah, so you're all always around haha
[05:50] <willvdl> pips1, good point. Letme see how many community pages I end up with before giving names
[05:50] <ogra> well, i should know the software i wrote ;)
[05:50] <SiCk> haha true!
[05:50] <SiCk> :)
[05:50] <pips1> willvdl: good talking to you, I need to go, cu l8r
[05:50] <willvdl> ciao
[05:51] <SiCk> new error ugh.. haha.. talk to you tomorrow ogra! bye!
[05:51] <ogra> ciao
[05:51] <willvdl> ogra, how long you still in oslo?
[05:52] <ogra> willvdl, flying out 10 am on sat
[05:55] <willvdl> sweet. at least home for the weekend.
[06:26] <willvdl> cheers folks. see you tomorrow
[07:22] <humbolto> how can I allow certain users to run the users-admin app? I would not want these users to be able to run software updates, ... like they could if they were part of the admin group. I thought about creating a new group and put some lines in the sudoers file to allow the members to run users-admin with gksu. but users-admin is not started with gksu.
[07:27] <juliux> hi
[07:28] <Burgwork> humbolto: users-admin runs a backend
[07:29] <humbolto> Burgwork: which is?
[07:29] <humbolto> can I put that in the sudoers file?
[07:29] <Burgwork> I cannot remember exactly what
[07:29] <Burgwork> trying running users-admin is see what else pops up
[07:31] <humbolto> Did that. But I don
[07:31] <humbolto> don't see any other processes started by users-admin
[07:32] <humbolto> is that a gnome or a ubuntu program?
[08:12] <dark7> lu all
[08:13] <humbolto> When I put "xxx ALL=/usr/bin/update-manager" in the sudoers file, I am still not able to run update-manager as user xxx
[09:06] <paolob-parroquia> Hi guys! anyone can tell me what is the file /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and what is it for? thank you?
[09:38] <cbx33> hey guys need to do a nice diagram to show how LTSP works, what package shoudl I use?
[09:40] <jbrefort> LaserJock, do you know which goffice version will be in feisty?
[09:40] <LaserJock> at this point, not for sure
[09:41] <jbrefort> ok
[09:41] <LaserJock> Feb. 8th is the Upstream Version Freeze
[09:41] <LaserJock> I think that's the latest it can be updated without an exception request
[09:42] <jbrefort> so it should be 0.3.5
[09:43] <LaserJock> yes, we have that right now
[10:04] <cliebow_> cbx33: stufdent control psnel looks awesome!!
[10:04] <cbx33> thanks cliebow_
[10:04] <cbx33> you mean thin client manager?
[10:04] <cbx33> heheh :p
[10:05] <cliebow_> yeah. i got pretty close anyway..i added a couple buttons in my teachertool  to hook to x11vnc  on clients
[10:06] <cliebow_> i never saw much performance hit..but ogra said it was a problem
[10:07] <cbx33> hehe
[10:08] <LaserJock> cbx33!
[10:09] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[10:09] <cbx33> bbiabn
[11:00] <cbx33> hy LaserJock
[11:00] <cbx33> howz it going
[11:00] <LaserJock> well, pretty good
[11:01] <Burgwork> hey cbx33, LaserJock
[11:01] <Burgwork> cbx33: can your tcm thingy be used on non-thin client
[11:01] <Burgwork> ?
[11:02] <cbx33> yeh
[11:02] <cbx33> well the vnc bit can
[11:02] <cbx33> not sure how you'd find out what users were logged on
[11:02] <cbx33> it would require modification
[11:02] <Burgwork> ah, for that you need to the new ConsoleKit
[11:04] <cbx33> cool
[11:04] <cbx33> looks like we could get them to work together
[11:04] <cbx33> all it needs is the username, process id of their session, which could be garbage in your case
[11:04] <cbx33> and the ip
[11:04] <cbx33> that's all that's passed
[11:07] <willvdl_> LaserJock, hey
[11:07] <willvdl_> Burgwork, too
[11:08] <LaserJock> willvdl!
[11:09] <cbx33> hey willvdl
[11:13] <Burgwork> hey willvdl
[11:13] <Burgwork> cbx33: that is exactly what consolekit gives you. As a plus it gives where the user is connected to
[11:13] <cbx33> nice
[11:14] <cbx33> the code will be available soon for tcm
[11:14] <Burgwork> well, that means you might want to rebrand again
[11:14] <Burgwork> something like Desktop Manager or something
[11:15] <cbx33> heheh
[11:21] <stelis> An Edubuntu HandBook query...
[11:24] <stelis> I've updated SVN and the directory seem to have been cleared
[11:24] <LaserJock> stelis: what do you mean by cleared and where are you geting the svn?
[11:25] <stelis> There was a skeleton guide with quite a few placeholder files
[11:26] <Burgwork> which svn repo are you pulling from? the official one?
[11:26] <LaserJock> the handbook is currently at http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
[11:26] <LaserJock> and using the doc team svn repo
[11:27] <cbx33> nn all
[11:27] <stelis> Yes, the official one...basically I set it up before Christmas and just updated it
[11:28] <stelis> LaserJock: That's it
[11:29] <stelis> The SVN copy I have is missing printing, for ex.
[11:29] <LaserJock> stelis: what does grep url .svn/entries give you
[11:29] <stelis>  url="https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/edubuntu/handbook/C"
[11:29] <LaserJock> ok yeah
[11:29] <LaserJock> that's the right repo
[11:30] <stelis> Hmm. I'll try flushing it and doing a fresh checkout
[11:30] <stelis> Basically I wrote up a couple of draft sections
[11:30] <stelis> And have done a couple more
[11:31] <stelis> And wanted to resync it and submit my bits for review
[12:00] <stelis> OK. The fresh SVN checkout just completed (slow connection), and it's the same as before...
 well, that means you might want to rebrand again
[12:03] <willvdl_> :)
[12:04] <willvdl_> stelis, what sections are you looking to write?
[12:05] <stelis> http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/
[12:06] <stelis> I submitted the look and feel to Mario Danic a while ago
[12:06] <stelis> The installation and security sections I wrote more recently
[12:07] <willvdl_> sweet. excellent
[12:08] <willvdl_> I'm toying with the idea of a seperate Install Guide (even though I know TBH moves away from "guides")
[12:09] <stelis> As an experiment, I always wanted to try building an installation guide as screenshots with minimal text
[12:10] <stelis> I have a suspicion that longs docs don't get read :)
[12:10] <stelis> Especially by people who want a "quick start" to kick the tires
[12:12] <stelis> I wrote a distro Install Guide a while ago, and it just kept growing...
[12:14] <stelis> Just to confirm: am I looking in the right place for the latest?
[12:14] <stelis> Or has this doc essentially been obsoleted by something else?