| Evaso2 | a sort of commit rollout + dependecies etc. | 12:13 |
|---|---|---|
| Evaso2 | when the trasaction is stable in testing and compilant with the policies it will bel applied to the stable "trunk" | 12:14 |
| Evaso2 | s/bel/be | 12:14 |
| LaserJock | seems like it requires a lot of "policing" | 12:14 |
| LaserJock | and I'm not seeing a clear advantage to a time-based release | 12:15 |
| Evaso2 | not a lot of policiing somthing like in the wiki stub are already good | 12:15 |
| Evaso2 | the trasaction is only a concept for loking packages with dependencies | 12:15 |
| Evaso2 | you could not upload a new upstream release if the upload broke the trasaction already in testing (for example abi changes) | 12:17 |
| LaserJock | it would just seem to me that a constantly moving target would not be as stable, as supportable, nor able to make changes as well | 12:17 |
| LaserJock | at least to a "release" level | 12:17 |
| LaserJock | for development or "unstable" purposes it seem to make some sense | 12:17 |
| LaserJock | basically like what unstable is for the most part | 12:18 |
| Evaso2 | probably but this work around many problem about backporting upstream bugs | 12:18 |
| Evaso2 | we need an extra work for backporting upstream bug fixing in stable release | 12:18 |
| Evaso2 | without a proper "stable" release we could try to itroduce slowly new upstream version in the trasaction | 12:19 |
| HrdwrBoB | I don't think people want that | 12:19 |
| Evaso2 | HrdwrBob: probably :) we could talking also about this | 12:20 |
| HrdwrBoB | "I am running Ubuntu X.XX | 12:20 |
| HrdwrBoB | is a lot easier than | 12:20 |
| HrdwrBoB | "oh I last updated foo and bar, here is my complete system version list" | 12:20 |
| Evaso2 | mhh... the alterative is I'am running Ubuntu without any X.XX | 12:21 |
| LaserJock | Evaso2: your idea is similar to Gentoo it would seem | 12:21 |
| LaserJock | Evaso2: but you have no idea what package versions you are running with that | 12:21 |
| LaserJock | what if a person doesn't have internet access | 12:21 |
| LaserJock | or limited access | 12:21 |
| TheMuso | 12:21 | |
| TheMuso | 12:21 | |
| LaserJock | they may still have whatever version was on the "snapshot" | 12:22 |
| ajmitch | TheMuso: I agree | 12:22 |
| TheMuso | ajmitch: lol | 12:22 |
| Evaso2 | LaserJock the problem of internet access is relative also at security fix | 12:22 |
| TheMuso | speakup decided to screw with sticking keys again after switching to this box using a kvm | 12:22 |
| LaserJock | Evaso2: yes it is | 12:22 |
| Evaso2 | LaserJock : or also at stable upgrade that fix bugs | 12:23 |
| LaserJock | sure | 12:23 |
| LaserJock | but if you have no internet wouldn't you rather have a tested, stabilized distro then the latest "daily" | 12:23 |
| Evaso2 | we could simply have a checksum to know if we run the actual sistem | 12:24 |
| Evaso2 | probably updates could will come 1 time at week | 12:24 |
| Evaso2 | so trasaction will be committed to stable one time at week | 12:24 |
| Evaso2 | when ready | 12:24 |
| LaserJock | well, I doubt that Debian or Ubuntu would be good fits for this system | 12:25 |
| LaserJock | but perhaps some derivatives might want to try it | 12:25 |
| LaserJock | it might have some advantages | 12:25 |
| LaserJock | for us I think the time based release also provide timelines for development | 12:25 |
| Evaso2 | it is an alternative concept about not to compleetly break the upstream flow | 12:25 |
| LaserJock | it has both technical and social consequences | 12:26 |
| Evaso2 | but the time based release will be relative to meet the periodical trasaction clock for prepare the trasaction from the devel system | 12:27 |
| Evaso2 | the time based release could be fragmentated and not so monolitich | 12:27 |
| Evaso2 | for example on the next transaction clock in the meeting we coiche to complete and polish the python x.x trasaction | 12:29 |
| Evaso2 | naturally this transaction must be well tested in the dev system (no rc or important bug) before could be committed | 12:30 |
| Evaso2 | this could let also to us to shorting the time we could integrate upstream bugfixing instead to try to backporting it | 12:31 |
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| Evaso2 | LaserJock: There is still a some kind of weekly or monthly or clock time oriented goals | 12:37 |
| popey | if I want to report a bug in the gnome doofer that comes up when i press the volume control soft keys on my laptop, what would that be? | 12:38 |
| popey | hmm, hotkey-setup? | 12:38 |
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| jdub | wow, just doing an upgrade and suddenly everything is totally gouging the cpu | 12:43 |
| jdub | like, gconftool-2 suching 80% over at least a minute | 12:43 |
| jdub | hrm, no, longer | 12:44 |
| cjwatson | Evaso2: you're free to start an Ubuntu derivative which works that way and try it out, but I'm pretty confident that Ubuntu isn't going to make that sort of change. Sorry. | 12:46 |
| Evaso2 | cjwatson: it is only for talking about an issue i doesn't want to create a fork for a derivate only for test an idea | 12:48 |
| cjwatson | I'm sorry, but we're not going to do it within Ubuntu | 12:48 |
| jdub | Evaso2: i tend to think that method will eventually take over, but it would require an enormous amount of work right now | 12:48 |
| Evaso2 | jdub: what do u mean for "take over"? | 12:49 |
| jdub | Evaso2: it will become the 'normal' way free software is delivered | 12:50 |
| Evaso2 | jdub: really or are u joking? :) | 12:50 |
| cjwatson | it would not be compatible with Canonical's commercial processes without serious (and expensive) reengineering of those processes | 12:50 |
| cjwatson | it's much easier to do this sort of thing when you're starting a project | 12:50 |
| cjwatson | once the project is up and running, change at that sort of fundamental level is difficult and expensive | 12:51 |
| cjwatson | and once people's jobs are depending on success, there's more resistance to untried ideas | 12:51 |
| Evaso2 | cjwatson: sure i'm also sure that it has too many reengineering | 12:51 |
| Evaso2 | cjwatson: i agree with u on this two issues | 12:51 |
| jdub | Evaso2: no, i'm not joking; but that's just my take on what the future may bring | 12:52 |
| cjwatson | I'm not really convinced that it can supply coherent enough support commitments and user messaging | 12:53 |
| Evaso2 | jdub: yes my was only a teoric discussion i doesn't think really that ubuntu or debian could really partical try somthing like this | 12:53 |
| cjwatson | but this is the wrong forum to go into it in detail | 12:53 |
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| Evaso2 | there are already support problem in ubuntu because it cannot control time freeze release for all the foss apps | 12:54 |
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| Evaso2 | this is issue was already in a Mark post on his blog | 12:55 |
| Evaso2 | mainly the ubuntu choiche is to sync with gnome time release clock | 12:56 |
| cjwatson | "the current system is imperfect" does not imply "any other possible choice is better" | 12:56 |
| cjwatson | I was not arguing that the current system was perfect | 12:56 |
| cjwatson | but, within the context of Ubuntu, efforts are better spent on minor tweaks than on total scorched-earth release process redesign, at this point | 12:57 |
| Evaso2 | i think that no one system is perfect and mainly is not perfect forever for an evolving word :) | 12:57 |
| cjwatson | by necessity, the latter will essentially produce no useful results except for possibly the founding of a new project to experiment with it | 12:57 |
| cjwatson | warty was when we were free to experiment :) | 12:57 |
| jdub | within the context of "we release in six months... starting from before X people were even here" ;-) | 12:58 |
| Evaso2 | i think that probably could be experimented only with a little number of packages to try to test the system | 12:58 |
| cjwatson | I'm aware that the current process has its trade-offs; I was there (and argued about them) when it was set up | 12:58 |
| cjwatson | (as was jdub) | 12:58 |
| cjwatson | but you need to recognise that every process has its trade-offs, and you would simply be exchanging one set of disadvantages for another | 12:59 |
| Evaso2 | i think that actually the problem is every distro is overloaded on distro vs upstream issue | 12:59 |
| cjwatson | pages about release processes need to explicitly acknowledge the disadvantages as well as the advantages, otherwise they're just advocacy | 01:00 |
| Evaso2 | yes for my stub i see problem with debian (but less with ubuntu) | 01:00 |
| Evaso2 | for debian a see a problem to try to put in a good state a trasaction that keep too many time | 01:01 |
| Evaso2 | so begin to missing many upstream releases | 01:01 |
| Evaso2 | and this problem could be the same with the universe side of ubuntu | 01:02 |
| jdub | brr, this cpu hogging business is bizaare | 01:02 |
| Evaso2 | upstream has its work time but if you are to slow to but dependecies trasaction in a good shape you begin to miss upstream release while you fix package with dependecies (what i call a trasaction ecosystem) | 01:03 |
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| Evaso2 | s/too slow to put | 01:04 |
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| cyberix | https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-panel/+bug/81205 | 01:06 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 81205 in gnome-panel "Clock applet doesn't allow me to choose Monday as the starting day of the week" [Unknown,Unknown] | 01:06 |
| popey | hmm, do only *some* bugs appear here? | 01:07 |
| popey | oh, sorry, that's ubunu-bugs isn't i | 01:07 |
| mdke | popey: only ones which people call. Such as bug 12345 | 01:07 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345 | 01:07 |
| popey | /ignore popey | 01:07 |
| Evaso2 | but probably in the future the new linuxfoundation (osdl + fsg) with the lsb a linux kernell could try to begin to define a universal linux syncro clock to sync all the major linux distro (and problably many little opensource project begin to sync releases to this clock) | 01:07 |
| Evaso2 | so we will have a sort of universal timeline to sync (the opposit of tha actual FOSS asyncro system) | 01:09 |
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| Hobbsee | any core dev people around? i'm looking for a sponsor | 04:15 |
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| dholbach | good morning | 09:11 |
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| cjwatson | pitti: you're in ubuntu-archive in LP now too, so you should be a full archive admin; let me know if there's anything you can't do | 09:13 |
| Mithrandir | pitti: you want to subscribe to ubuntu-archive@lists.ubuntu.com, probably. | 09:13 |
| pitti | cjwatson: just checked, account seems to be ok; thanks | 09:14 |
| pitti | Mithrandir: alright | 09:14 |
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| pitti | ah, thanks for adding me to the team, just appeared | 09:17 |
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| Keybuk | pitti: what's wrong with this picture? -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/feisty-20070123-7.png | 09:21 |
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| Mithrandir | Keybuk: your machine seems to be bored for a while while booting. | 09:22 |
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| Treenaks | Mithrandir: bored with S08loopback even | 09:22 |
| Mithrandir | yeah, seems like it can't resolve its own hostname | 09:22 |
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| Mithrandir | "host" is running for exactly ten seconds. | 09:23 |
| Keybuk | Mithrandir: yes | 09:25 |
| Keybuk | it's not unusual to have no DNS server when you're only bringing up lo :p | 09:25 |
| Keybuk | it's not trying to resolve its hostname, but looking for a local SOA | 09:26 |
| === Keybuk would argue that needs a "!= lo" in there | ||
| Treenaks | Keybuk: ifrename... ;) | 09:26 |
| Keybuk | Treenaks: ? | 09:27 |
| Treenaks | Keybuk: isn't it possible to rename the 'lo' device to something else? | 09:28 |
| Treenaks | Or will that break other things horribly too? | 09:28 |
| Keybuk | I don't think it's possible | 09:28 |
| Treenaks | ok, nevermind then | 09:28 |
| pitti | Keybuk: yup, there's a bug about it | 09:28 |
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| pitti | Keybuk: bug 80268 | 09:29 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 80268 in avahi "Avahi daemon should not try to resolve hostnames during bootup" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80268 | 09:29 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: if you could come over here afterwards and I'll fix up the rest of the bits of the greasemonkey script for you. | 09:30 |
| seb128 | Mithrandir: now or after the debhelper demo? | 09:31 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: whenever you want. :-) | 09:32 |
| seb128 | ok, after the demo then ;) | 09:32 |
| Hobbsee | hey Mithrandir, seb128, and Keybuk | 09:33 |
| seb128 | hi Hobbsee | 09:33 |
| Mithrandir | morning, Hobbsee | 09:33 |
| Hobbsee | ;) | 09:34 |
| Mithrandir | Riddell: do you want to add knetwork-manager to your -desktop seed yourself or should I do it? | 09:37 |
| pitti | lifeless: look at bug 81237, that's a funny one | 09:37 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 81237 in apport "Errors from python interpreter give apport crash dialog!" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81237 | 09:37 |
| pitti | lifeless: (just to amuse you, I'll fix it) | 09:38 |
| lifeless | pitti: ah yeah, jamesh and I had a fix for it | 09:41 |
| lifeless | pitti: its not trivial to fix. I'll dig up the log about the right way later | 09:42 |
| pitti | lifeless: oh, I thought about something like 'InterpreterPath == ExecutablePath -> ignore' | 09:42 |
| lifeless | pitti: 'python foo.py' -> foo.py may be packaged | 09:42 |
| pitti | lifeless: check the arguments then, too? hmm | 09:43 |
| lifeless | there are a couple of variables we can cross check though | 09:43 |
| lifeless | its in my irc logs from las year somewhere ;)' | 09:43 |
| pitti | lifeless: if I run python in /usr/lib, I get ExecutablePath == /usr/lib | 09:46 |
| Keybuk | you don't exclude /usr/local from that? | 09:50 |
| Keybuk | I've had that dialog at least once for a python script in /usr/local/bin | 09:50 |
| pitti | Keybuk: I do | 09:50 |
| pitti | Keybuk: ah, probably not for interpreted scripts | 09:50 |
| lifeless | Keybuk: this is about interactive python, but if you get a dialog when you shouldn't, file a bug with some details ;) | 09:51 |
| Keybuk | lifeless: bug #81244 | 09:52 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 81244 in apport "Is run for programs in /usr/local" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81244 | 09:52 |
| pitti | Keybuk: thanks | 09:52 |
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| cjwatson | dholbach: does <or> work yet? | 09:53 |
| dholbach | cjwatson: yes | 09:54 |
| cjwatson | hmm | 09:54 |
| dholbach | cjwatson: 'not' too | 09:54 |
| cjwatson | can't get 79029 to match "no active autopartitioning choice" | 09:54 |
| dholbach | do you have the clue file for that somewhere so I can try myself? | 09:54 |
| dholbach | cjwatson: ^ | 09:54 |
| cjwatson | (that would be a false positive as it happens, but still) | 09:55 |
| \sh | moins | 09:55 |
| cjwatson | dholbach: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity.info | 09:55 |
| cjwatson | I'd suggest hacking bughelper to limit to just bug 79029 or it'll take forever | 09:56 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 79029 in ubiquity "Feisty Herd2 - Installer crashed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/79029 | 09:56 |
| \sh | sabdfl, thank you for your mail :) | 09:56 |
| dholbach | cjwatson: i'll give it a special bug list url but thanks for the hint | 09:56 |
| Riddell | Mithrandir: it's already in | 09:57 |
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| Mithrandir | Riddell: coolie | 09:57 |
| dholbach | cjwatson: working on it | 09:59 |
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| dholbach | cjwatson: can you try http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/possiblefix.patch ? | 10:04 |
| cjwatson | trying | 10:06 |
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| dholbach | cjwatson: does ./bughelper -A -l http://tinyurl.com/2ykot4 work for you? | 10:08 |
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| \sh | doko: if you have time, can you look at http://librarian.launchpad.net/5720669/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.ldaptor_0.0.43-0.4ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz and tell me how can we fix it (e.g. setting it back to python2.4) | 10:57 |
| StevenK | I note the command that fails is dia -t png-libart --export=ldap-is-a-tree.dia.png.tmp ldap-is-a-tree.dia | 11:00 |
| \sh | oh my god...right..i didn't see the glibc warning... | 11:01 |
| === \sh needs new glases | ||
| StevenK | There's no bug against it, either. | 11:04 |
| fabbione | *** glibc detected *** dia: free(): invalid pointer: 0x09392ea0 *** | 11:05 |
| fabbione | fix dia :) | 11:05 |
| Treenaks | StevenK: there is a bug against dia for that.. | 11:05 |
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| StevenK | Treenaks: Oh? I must of missed it. | 11:06 |
| Treenaks | StevenK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dia/+bug/79188 | 11:06 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 79188 in dia "Dia hangs while starting" [High,Confirmed] | 11:06 |
| StevenK | Ah, I was looking for bugs mentioning glibc | 11:06 |
| Treenaks | StevenK: well, it does mention it.. in the description text | 11:06 |
| === StevenK nods. | ||
| StevenK | So, which lucky person gets to valgrind dia? :-) | 11:07 |
| seb128 | fabbione: what about you fixing bugs instead of just pointing them? ;) | 11:07 |
| Treenaks | StevenK: seb128 ;) | 11:07 |
| StevenK | Actually, doko touched it last. :-) | 11:08 |
| seb128 | StevenK: the upstream SVN has the required changes, that's a "work with new python" change | 11:08 |
| seb128 | it's trivial to backport probably | 11:08 |
| StevenK | seb128: Point me at the patch, and I'm happy to throw you a debdiff? | 11:08 |
| seb128 | the problem is that it has been commited to CVS and touch like 15 files, and there is not an unique changeset | 11:08 |
| seb128 | you need to look at every file change and collect the diffs, which I've been to busy or lazy to do | 11:09 |
| seb128 | wait | 11:09 |
| seb128 | http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/dia/trunk/plug-ins/python/ | 11:09 |
| seb128 | "* plug-ins/python/*.c : don't mix PyObject_NEW() with PyMem_DEL()" | 11:09 |
| seb128 | grab that diff for every file | 11:10 |
| seb128 | that will probably work | 11:10 |
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| fabbione | seb128: because it's part of my new job to just point them out :) | 11:15 |
| seb128 | that's not support request | 11:15 |
| seb128 | what other new job did you get? | 11:15 |
| fabbione | seb128: handing over all my stuff to you ;) | 11:16 |
| seb128 | I don't think so | 11:16 |
| fabbione | seb128: it's fun tho :) | 11:17 |
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| seb128 | I don't doubt of it :p | 11:18 |
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| StevenK | Come on librarian, send me data slower. | 11:22 |
| saispo | hi | 11:22 |
| doko | \sh, StevenK: reverting to 2.4 is not an option; better fix the 2.5 bugs | 11:23 |
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| StevenK | doko: Doing so now | 11:24 |
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| doko | StevenK: thanks | 11:24 |
| StevenK | doko: I shall bug either you or seb128 when I have a debdiff for dia | 11:24 |
| seb128 | StevenK: attach it to the bug, I'll do the upload | 11:24 |
| StevenK | seb128: Aye. I'll poke you here when I've done so | 11:24 |
| seb128 | cool | 11:24 |
| tkamppeter | I have a question about getting new packages from universe to main. I have made the appropriate reports and added the packages to the queue, but when I announce it on ubuntu-devel, I get messages that my postings await moderator approval because I am not a developer. Where should I announce my main inclusion requests? | 11:27 |
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| kylem | ubuntu-devel-discuss is the open list and probably the best place. | 11:27 |
| tkamppeter | Then I think the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements should be appropriately changed. | 11:29 |
| \sh | doko, thx :) | 11:29 |
| seb128 | mdke: around? | 11:29 |
| mdke | seb128: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back) | 11:29 |
| seb128 | mdke: have your changes for the help menu been approved and need to be applied? | 11:30 |
| tkamppeter | Like: 3. # | 11:30 |
| tkamppeter | The request and the link to the report are sent to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com or ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com. | 11:30 |
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| cjwatson | tkamppeter: I think ubuntu-devel is appropriate. | 11:38 |
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| cjwatson | although there is an open question of whether it makes sense to post MIRs to a mailing list at all | 11:38 |
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| lifeless | sfllaw: I have the edit back.ping me when you want this meeting | 11:40 |
| tkamppeter | cjwatson, then we should really change the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements. Which address do you like should I send the announcements of main inlusion requests to? | 11:41 |
| cjwatson | tkamppeter: I have updated the process following a brief discussion here | 11:41 |
| cjwatson | tkamppeter: you do not need to announce it anywhere; Martin Pitt (the primary reviewer) gets notified via a wiki subscription | 11:42 |
| cjwatson | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements fixed | 11:43 |
| tkamppeter | cjwatson, thanks. | 11:44 |
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| pitti | lifeless: seems that sys.argv == [''] for interactive python sessions even if I run 'python -O -E' | 11:56 |
| pitti | lifeless: that's why your binary = os.path.join(cwd,argv[0] ) produces '/usr/local' | 11:57 |
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| StevenK | seb128: Bug 79188 updated with my debdiff. I have tested that I can reproduce the problem, and also that my fix does indeed fix the problem. | 12:14 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 79188 in dia "Dia hangs while starting" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/79188 | 12:14 |
| seb128 | StevenK: good, I'll have a look now, thank you | 12:14 |
| StevenK | seb128: Great, thanks. And no problem. :-) | 12:15 |
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| ogra | seb128, StevenK, i'm just trying to get the dia from experimental building ... i'd assume that patch is included | 12:19 |
| seb128 | right | 12:19 |
| seb128 | ogra: let me know if it works fine, otherwise I'll upload the patched package | 12:20 |
| ogra | yep | 12:20 |
| Hobbsee | Mithrandir: or another archive admin, ping? | 12:20 |
| ogra | only finishing the tuxtype build ... | 12:20 |
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| Mithrandir | Hobbsee: humm? | 12:27 |
| Hobbsee | Mithrandir: i think there were two uploads of murrine today? can you make sure the last one gets uploaded please? :) | 12:27 |
| === Hobbsee got confused with revu | ||
| Mithrandir | 159376 | S- | murrine | 0.41-0ubuntu1 | 7 hours 30 minutes | 12:29 |
| Mithrandir | | * murrine/0.41-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: gnome | 12:29 |
| Mithrandir | 159377 | S- | murrine | 0.41-0ubuntu1 | 7 hours 20 minutes | 12:29 |
| Mithrandir | | * murrine/0.41-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: gnome | 12:29 |
| Mithrandir | so yes, two uploads. :-P | 12:29 |
| Mithrandir | I'm merging casper now, I can do it afterwards. | 12:30 |
| Hobbsee | Mithrandir: :( realised after i'd uploaded the first one, went "bugger" | 12:32 |
| Hobbsee | cool, thanks :) | 12:32 |
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| frennkie | Hello, does anybody know how likely it is that there will be a backport of libc6-xen for Dapper Drake LTS (6.06) (see: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/50331/+viewstatus) | 12:40 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 50331 in glibc "Please backport libc6-xen" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed] | 12:40 |
| frennkie | okay, so what does unconfirmed mean ? | 12:42 |
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| mneptok | what is the nature of the breakage on Dapper? does it affect security? | 12:48 |
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| Mithrandir | frennkie: not going to happen. | 12:51 |
| frennkie | *cry* why not, do you know? | 12:51 |
| Hobbsee | Mithrandir: well, the backporters might decide to smoke their crack pipe, again... | 12:51 |
| Mithrandir | Hobbsee: well, I just rejected it and I would be really, really surprised if any other archive admin though it was a good idea. | 12:52 |
| Mithrandir | frennkie: because we don't backport core libraries like, glibc. | 12:52 |
| Hobbsee | Mithrandir: heh, yes, i know. i thougth the ubuntu backporters were separate to you guys - jdong's team | 12:53 |
| Mithrandir | Hobbsee: they're still subject to ubuntu-archive approval. | 12:53 |
| Hobbsee | ah :) | 12:53 |
| frennkie | ok, thats a point.. but as dapper, will be around and used for another 4 Years maybe it would be good to have proper xen supoort in it.. | 12:54 |
| Hobbsee | frennkie: i believe you just got told by one of the 3 archive admins "no" - that's very very unlikely to change... | 12:54 |
| Mithrandir | frennkie: sure, that would be nice. Unfortunately, as long as that means backporting glibc, it's not going to happen. | 12:54 |
| frennkie | okay, got it now. thx! | 12:56 |
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| StevenK | ogra: Any news, re: dia? | 01:02 |
| ogra | StevenK, seems 0.96-pre1 is gone ... seb128 will apply your patch | 01:03 |
| ogra | (i got it from alioth some weeks ago ... it ftbfs'ed ... seems they didnt get it fixed) | 01:03 |
| StevenK | ogra: Great, thanks | 01:03 |
| seb128 | ogra: you can also grab the new tarball and do the update if you want ;) | 01:04 |
| ogra | after lunch then :) | 01:04 |
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| h4writer | (gnome) can I ask here how come that a list of anything sometimes shows white places? Like the user list in Gaim. Or the list of menus in "menu layout". If I'm not wrong those are created with python: treeview (treestore) | 01:56 |
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| cjwatson | does anyone here have moderator privileges on the "Installation and Upgrades" forum on ubuntuforums.org? I need a comment marked sticky | 01:57 |
| h4writer | But it is annoying and I need to be fixed | 01:57 |
| h4writer | *it | 01:57 |
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| Treenaks | h4writer: this is not a support channel | 01:58 |
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| Treenaks | h4writer: also, use launchpad.net to file bugs | 01:58 |
| h4writer | ok | 01:58 |
| h4writer | thanks | 01:58 |
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| ogra | StevenK, seb128, do we have a bug for the dia segfault ? i just uploaded | 02:38 |
| seb128 | ogra: uploaded what? | 02:38 |
| ogra | dia | 02:38 |
| seb128 | what version? | 02:38 |
| ogra | 0.95.0-4.1ubuntu3 | 02:39 |
| seb128 | grumpf | 02:39 |
| ogra | the patched one with StevenK's patch ... | 02:39 |
| seb128 | I had that ready | 02:39 |
| ogra | i told you i'D do it after lunch when you asked | 02:39 |
| seb128 | ogra: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dia/+bug/79188 | 02:40 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 79188 in dia "Dia hangs while starting" [High,Confirmed] | 02:40 |
| ogra | thx | 02:40 |
| seb128 | np | 02:40 |
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| Stargazers | Hi. I have a question about Python and Feisty. Is there problems with Feisty locales or something, cause jBrout should add IPTC as UTF-8, but it won't do it on Feisty? | 02:41 |
| Stargazers | And always I get errormessage in Feisty, I paste a url of errormessage, moment. | 02:42 |
| Stargazers | http://stargazers.kapsi.fi/screenshots/errormessage.jpg <-- This kind. This won't appear on Dapper or Edgy. | 02:42 |
| Stargazers | I mean, if I write IPTC-tags with DigiKam 0.9.0 and then look in jBrout, scandinavian chars won't work. And same if I add tags with jBrout and then look them DigiKam, scandinavian chars won't work. But it seems that problem is on jBrout that writes tags without UTF-8, but programmer said that it does. So, is there problem in Python packages in Feisty now? | 02:44 |
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| alex-weej | grr | 03:06 |
| alex-weej | every time i try to install build dependencies | 03:06 |
| alex-weej | i just get a message like | 03:06 |
| alex-weej | E: Build-dependencies for gossip could not be satisfied. | 03:06 |
| alex-weej | i have no idea what's going on, anyone got an idea? | 03:06 |
| Hobbsee | alex-weej: not enough info | 03:06 |
| Hobbsee | alex-weej: means that one of the build deps is broken | 03:06 |
| seb128 | alex-weej: that's not an user support chan | 03:06 |
| Hobbsee | ie, not installable | 03:06 |
| Hobbsee | and it's the wrong channel | 03:07 |
| alex-weej | seb128: i'm trying to "develop" | 03:07 |
| seb128 | alex-weej: still not the right chan, that's not a chan to ask how to build a package | 03:07 |
| alex-weej | whatever | 03:07 |
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| Hobbsee | heh | 03:07 |
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| cjwatson | mvo: you can close bug 81225 | 03:15 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 81225 in realplayer "realplay requires libc6 2.5" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81225 | 03:15 |
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| erdinc | crimsun got a sec? | 03:23 |
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| alsaberk | hi erdinc | 03:29 |
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| ogra | seb128, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/dia/ | 03:41 |
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| erdinc | cliebow use this: http://cekirdek.pardus.org.tr/~ismail/dist/bcm43xx-firmware-3.130.20.0.tar.bz2 | 03:48 |
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| bddebian | Heya | 03:54 |
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| jdong | are you guys aware that libc6-dev from archive.ubuntu.com main is unfetchable... | 03:56 |
| jdong | http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/glibc/libc6-dev_2.4-1ubuntu12.2_i386.deb | 03:57 |
| jdong | that URL | 03:57 |
| jdong | generates 403/forbidden | 03:57 |
| elmo | yes, it's deliberate | 03:57 |
| jdong | ah | 03:58 |
| jdong | recalling an update? | 03:58 |
| lifeless | elmo: is it listed in Packages at all ? | 03:58 |
| elmo | lifeless: yes | 03:58 |
| lifeless | meep. analyzer fall down go boom | 03:58 |
| elmo | jdong: yes | 03:59 |
| jdong | is this related to the libc6 update not liking libpthread.so.20 thing? | 04:00 |
| Mithrandir | yes | 04:00 |
| jdong | ah, ok | 04:01 |
| jdong | lovely :) | 04:01 |
| lifeless | and the toe bone is conneted to the foot bone | 04:01 |
| bddebian | hehe | 04:01 |
| === jdong is done playing 20 questions | ||
| lifeless | jdong: dont you mean .20 questions ? | 04:02 |
| jdong | LOL | 04:02 |
| jdong | BOO | 04:02 |
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| Keybuk | or why anyone would have a /usr/lib/libc.so.6 symlink | 04:05 |
| Mithrandir | Keybuk: it gets pulled in by gnupg-agent, for instance. | 04:06 |
| Mithrandir | hmm, no | 04:06 |
| Mithrandir | that's libpth2 | 04:06 |
| Keybuk | Mithrandir: no, that's libpth20 | 04:06 |
| jdong | Mithrandir: I can't find anything that rdepends libpthread20.... | 04:06 |
| jdong | but I have come across 3 users that experienced the update problem | 04:06 |
| lifeless | perhaps its installed from $old-version | 04:06 |
| jdong | perhaps | 04:07 |
| jdong | what is the officially sane workaround for this, BTW | 04:07 |
| lifeless | wait | 04:08 |
| jdong | mmm :) | 04:08 |
| === jdong probably committed a taboo with how he helped those 3 people..... :D | ||
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| Mithrandir | ogra: I can accept python-ltsp on the condition that you clean up debian/ ; you're shipping effectively empty post- and preinsts (remove them), same goes for README.Debian, your debian/rules file has a configure target, but the package has no configure program, so it's useless. | 04:13 |
| ogra | Mithrandir, python-central rewrites the postinst files during build | 04:14 |
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| ogra | but i'm fine dropping README.Debian and cleaning rules | 04:15 |
| ogra | (python-central through dh_pycentral) | 04:15 |
| Mithrandir | ogra: yes, it replaces the #DEBHELPER# token. If you don't have any live code in there yourself, remove the file. | 04:16 |
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| ogra | does it still create it ? i thought it needs a skeleton ... | 04:17 |
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| ogra | but if that works i'll remove it | 04:17 |
| Keybuk | *confused* | 04:19 |
| froud | whose the best person to speak to about packaging of docbook and docbook-xsl? | 04:20 |
| jdong | cjwatson: ping; did you find the moderators you were looking for? | 04:20 |
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| _MMA_ | Mithrandir: Have you had a chance to look at the ubuntustudio-meta package again or will someone else be looking at it? | 04:23 |
| Mithrandir | _MMA_: it was accepted half an hour ago. | 04:24 |
| froud | Over at docbook project we're trying to contact all package maintainers for DocBook. How can I discover who is doing this for Ubuntu? | 04:24 |
| _MMA_ | Thank you. Ill let my team know. ;) | 04:24 |
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| === MikeSmith waves | ||
| MikeSmith | I do the docbook-xsl builds and releases | 04:26 |
| MikeSmith | the upstream ones | 04:26 |
| MikeSmith | I'd like to help get the edgy docbook-xsl package more up-to-date/synced up with the Debian one | 04:27 |
| ogra | Mithrandir, all fixed, want me to upload the fixed one before you approve ? | 04:27 |
| Mithrandir | ogra: nah, I put it in, but please upload the new one. | 04:27 |
| MikeSmith | Debian docbook-xsl is at 1.71.0.dfsg.1-1.1 | 04:27 |
| ogra | Mithrandir, will do as soon as the accepted mail is here ... thansk a lot | 04:27 |
| ogra | *thanks | 04:27 |
| MikeSmith | edgy one is at 1.68.1.dfsg.1-0.2 | 04:27 |
| MikeSmith | which is very very old now | 04:28 |
| MikeSmith | 18 months or more old | 04:28 |
| froud | MikeSmith: apt-cache show says Adam Di Carlo <aph@debian.org> | 04:29 |
| froud | for docbook | 04:29 |
| froud | and Mark Johnson <mrj@debian.org> for docbook-xsl | 04:29 |
| Mithrandir | MikeSmith: docbook-xsl in feisty is 1.71.0.dfsg.1-1.1 | 04:30 |
| froud | Mithrandir: yes, but dapper ppl what repository updated ... what to do? | 04:30 |
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| Mithrandir | froud: nothing? We're not introducing new upstream versions in released distributions. | 04:31 |
| MikeSmith | froud - DocBook stylesheet package is docbook-xsl | 04:31 |
| MikeSmith | and I know the Debian packager for it quite well | 04:31 |
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| MikeSmith | my concern is just about making sure that Ubuntu users have easy access to the latest | 04:32 |
| MikeSmith | Mithrandir - thanks | 04:32 |
| froud | MikeSmith: seams they must install manual or dist-upgrade :-) | 04:32 |
| ogra | Mithrandir, hmm, i had the accepted message from soyuz ... but get a NEW message for the next upload ... seems i had a little race condition here ... sorry | 04:33 |
| MikeSmith | froud, Mithrandir - OK. So updated package don't get backported to dapper and edgy? | 04:33 |
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| Mithrandir | MikeSmith: correct. That is, they can be requested, but they're not automatically backported. | 04:34 |
| Mithrandir | (requested into -backports, not into the normal repo) | 04:34 |
| froud | Mithrandir: who does that? | 04:34 |
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| Mithrandir | froud: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportsHowto | 04:35 |
| === MikeSmith bookmarks that page | ||
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| Keybuk | jdong: ping ping ping ping ping | 04:36 |
| jdong | Keybuk: pong pong pong pong pong pong? | 04:36 |
| jdong | -1 | 04:36 |
| === ogra shades his ears | ||
| Keybuk | jdong: don't suppose you have a record of when you installed libpthread20 ? | 04:36 |
| Keybuk | e.g. in /var/log/dpkg.log* ? | 04:36 |
| jdong | Keybuk: I was not affected.... | 04:36 |
| MikeSmith | Mithrandir - so I guess I should file a bug if I want to request it be backported? | 04:37 |
| Keybuk | jdong: oh, bah | 04:37 |
| Mithrandir | MikeSmith: correct. | 04:37 |
| jdong | Keybuk: some people who were affected came to me :( | 04:37 |
| Keybuk | jdong: do you know of them? | 04:37 |
| MikeSmith | Mithrandir, froud - big thanks | 04:37 |
| jdong | Keybuk: wildtangent on #ubuntuforums (currently not on there; he had this problem yesterday), and a forum search can yield quite some more :) | 04:37 |
| Keybuk | jdong: can't find why anyone would have that installed though | 04:38 |
| jdong | Keybuk: heh, I'm just as puzzled | 04:39 |
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| jdong | Keybuk: when the fixed libc6 package is released, will that automatically apply OK for people who already attempted applying the broken update? | 04:42 |
| jdong | i.e. will any apt-get -f install coercing be necessary? | 04:43 |
| Keybuk | jdong: the fix will automatically apply; assuming users haven't tried to force the issue themselves | 04:43 |
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| jdong | ok | 04:45 |
| popey | who looks after planet.ubuntu.com? | 04:46 |
| popey | I have moved my domain but the rss planet doofer is still going to the wrong host for updates | 04:47 |
| Spads | popey: Any ubuntu-member can update it | 04:47 |
| Spads | popey: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu | 04:47 |
| popey | no, you don't understand | 04:47 |
| popey | the entry is correct | 04:47 |
| popey | but their box is doing incorrect dns lookup | 04:48 |
| popey | caching the old IP | 04:48 |
| lifeless | how long ago did you move host ? | 04:48 |
| popey | last week | 04:48 |
| popey | its the only thing still hitting my apache logs | 04:48 |
| lifeless | what was your TTL before you moved ? | 04:48 |
| popey | good question | 04:48 |
| popey | i don't know | 04:48 |
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| Spads | what's the hostname in question? | 04:49 |
| Spads | I can take a look | 04:49 |
| popey | popey.com | 04:49 |
| lifeless | planet runs a new process each time, so any caching is oming from the datacentre NS servers | 04:49 |
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| popey | it is of course not a big deal, but I want to shut that apache down | 04:49 |
| lifeless | popey: what ip should it resolve to ? | 04:52 |
| jdong | Keybuk: I've posted a forumwide announcement urging people not to try their own ways of "fixing" the problem; also quoted your post asking for grepping of dpkg.log -- will ping you if any meaningful replies show up :) | 04:52 |
| popey | 212.13.198.80 | 04:52 |
| lifeless | Spads: ^ | 04:52 |
| Spads | popey: is there another FQDN for the IP in question you could use? | 04:52 |
| popey | bishop.popey.com | 04:52 |
| Spads | bishop.popey.com has address 212.13.198.80 | 04:53 |
| Spads | that's on the planet host | 04:53 |
| Spads | so if you change it to that it should fix your problem for now | 04:53 |
| popey | that wont work | 04:53 |
| popey | apache will send that request elsewhere | 04:54 |
| Spads | I see. | 04:54 |
| popey | different virtual host | 04:54 |
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| Spads | popey: I've put in a bit of a workaround. /msg me if you still see hits from the planet system on the wrong host over the next hour | 05:00 |
| popey | thanks Spads | 05:00 |
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| lifeless | Spads: bind is over enthusiastic ? | 05:02 |
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| Spads | lifeless: it's a little more complicated than that | 05:03 |
| lifeless | Spads: ah well. over a beer sometime perhaps | 05:03 |
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| seb128 | ogra: the upstream build works fine, the debian build call "xmlto -o doc/en/manual html doc/en/dia.xml" though | 05:17 |
| seb128 | ogra: change doc/en/usage-layers.xml to be valid UTF-8 (quotes around the background word to change) and it builds fine | 05:18 |
| ogra | seb128, oh, then its a leftover from the old packaging | 05:18 |
| seb128 | or drop the xmlto call | 05:18 |
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| ogra | right ... do we need it at all ? | 05:18 |
| ogra | hmm, well, if i drop it it will be a delta ... i'll rather do the quoting | 05:18 |
| seb128 | ogra: doesn't look like | 05:19 |
| seb128 | ok | 05:19 |
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| seb128 | ogra: from the changelog previous version lacked that xml, maybe that's why they built it with the package | 05:20 |
| seb128 | ogra: the current tarball ships it though | 05:21 |
| ogra | ah | 05:21 |
| seb128 | I would just comment the xmlto calls for the moment | 05:21 |
| seb128 | we will adapt when syncing with Debian next time | 05:21 |
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| ogra | yep, already testbuilding | 05:25 |
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| AnAnt | I got a question about python: why isn't there a /usr/lib/python.so that can be set using /etc/alternatives/ ? | 05:26 |
| AnAnt | hello | 05:29 |
| AnAnt | ? | 05:29 |
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| \sh | Mithrandir, can you give-back again ldaptor? :) thx | 05:38 |
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| \sh | StevenK, doko, ldaptor compiles fine now with the StevenKs dia fix :) | 05:47 |
| \sh | StevenK, thx for that :) | 05:47 |
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| === keescook waves hi | ||
| kylem | morning kees. | 06:13 |
| keescook | hiya kylem | 06:13 |
| ogra | hey keescook | 06:13 |
| keescook | hiya ogra | 06:13 |
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| pitti | hey keescook | 06:19 |
| === keescook hugs pitti | ||
| === pitti hugs keescook back | ||
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| jdong | keybuk... argh, come back :) | 06:22 |
| jdong | http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2057950&postcount=2 | 06:22 |
| jdong | ^^ you've got one person whose dpkg.log shows a libpthread20 being installed | 06:22 |
| cjwatson | jdong: no, I didn't | 06:23 |
| jdong | cjwatson: I've posted a forum-wide announcement regarding not trying workarounds for the libc6 thing | 06:24 |
| jdong | hope that suffices | 06:24 |
| cjwatson | jdong: yeah, I saw - I think that will suffice, thanks | 06:24 |
| jdong | np :) | 06:24 |
| cjwatson | jdong: a rebuild is in progress that removes the check | 06:24 |
| jdong | good to hear | 06:24 |
| cjwatson | jdong: regarding http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2057950&postcount=2, the entire dpkg.log would be useful | 06:25 |
| cjwatson | jdong: Keybuk will be travelling for a while now, so I'd better take that over | 06:25 |
| lifeless | mdz: cjwatson: http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/possible-conflicts/ | 06:26 |
| jdong | cjwatson: yeah, just told the guy to attach the log to the LP bug report | 06:26 |
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| cjwatson | jdong: thanks, much appreciated | 06:27 |
| jdong | not a problem, glad to help | 06:27 |
| mdz | lifeless: greatly improved! | 06:27 |
| mdz | lifeless: can we collapse the cases which are identical across architectures into a single line? | 06:27 |
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| lifeless | mdz: yes, that will happen another day though, as it does not currently buffer - which is needed to detect that | 06:40 |
| cjwatson | pitti: I was wondering if it'd be possible for ubiquity to use its own crash handler iff apport won't be around to catch the crash | 06:45 |
| cjwatson | pitti: do you think just skipping the crash handler if apport can be imported would do the job? | 06:45 |
| seb128 | cjwatson: stop reassigning bugs to GNOME packages :p | 06:45 |
| cjwatson | seb128: hey, they were yours :-) | 06:45 |
| cjwatson | seb128: you can always get revenge by finding unassigned installer bugs | 06:45 |
| pitti | cjwatson: either that, or just checking whether apport-gtk package is installed, or /usr/share/apport/apport-gtk exists? | 06:46 |
| seb128 | looks like indeed :p | 06:46 |
| cjwatson | pitti: or maybe apport to be frontend-agnostic | 06:46 |
| cjwatson | /usr/share/apport/apport? | 06:46 |
| pitti | cjwatson: right, just mentioning that people can uninstall apport-gtk but have apport installed | 06:46 |
| pitti | cjwatson: right | 06:46 |
| cjwatson | mm | 06:46 |
| cjwatson | right, I see your point | 06:46 |
| pitti | cjwatson: however, that shouldn't be an issue in the live system | 06:46 |
| cjwatson | I guess the gtk frontend can check for apport-gtk and the kde frontend can do similarly when there's a kde frontend | 06:47 |
| pitti | cjwatson: I can add Provides: apport-frontend if it helps | 06:47 |
| pitti | or that | 06:47 |
| cjwatson | I'm happier with checking a file than the dpkg database, as it'll be faster | 06:47 |
| pitti | right | 06:47 |
| mdz | lifeless: if you fix the '-' delimiter and remove the header ('possible conflict:') I think we can get what we need by post-processing against a whitelist | 06:47 |
| cjwatson | plus I prefer to do as little work as possible in an exception handler | 06:47 |
| pitti | cjwatson: I think in general, checking for /u/s/a/apport is equivalent to checking for import apport; the latter doesn't check for GUI existance either | 06:48 |
| lifeless | sabdfl: this was fun | 06:48 |
| cjwatson | mkay, I'll check for /usr/share/apport/apport-gtk I think | 06:48 |
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| ogra | seb128, g-p-m uploaded | 07:13 |
| seb128 | cool | 07:14 |
| ogra | my pbuilder took nearly 2h to resolve the deps ... something is wrong here | 07:14 |
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| Mithrandir | \sh_away: given-back | 09:44 |
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| RememberPOL | ffmpeg in mainstream repo is outtdated causing a lack of support for video is FLV files (audio works, [in VLC] ) | 11:12 |
| Burgwork | RememberPOL: ffmpeg in which distro? | 11:14 |
| RememberPOL | well | 11:15 |
| RememberPOL | I'm running Xubuntu 6.10 | 11:15 |
| RememberPOL | but it uses the mainstream ubntu distro | 11:15 |
| RememberPOL | *mainstream ubuntu repo | 11:15 |
| RememberPOL | http://slexy.org/paste/1074 | 11:15 |
| Burgwork | ffmpeg is updated for the upcomign 7.04 | 11:17 |
| RememberPOL | yes but can't it be put into the existing repo so i don't have to wait three months and upgrade my OS, or compile ffmpeg myself? | 11:18 |
| RememberPOL | or maybe i can find a fiesty deb instead of compiling | 11:19 |
| RememberPOL | heh | 11:19 |
| Burgwork | the issue is that newer ffmpeg breaks api/abi, so you need to recompile a bunch of other things | 11:20 |
| Burgwork | that being said, it may be backported | 11:20 |
| === lamont grumbles at bluetooth | ||
| RememberPOL | abi? | 11:21 |
| Burgwork | application binary interface | 11:21 |
| LaserJock | I don't think libraries are that likely to be backported | 11:21 |
| RememberPOL | so installing a fiesty ffmpeg deb won't really help here? | 11:21 |
| Burgwork | not unless you have all of the depends of ffmpeg from feisty as well | 11:21 |
| Burgwork | the issue is not Ubuntus. It is that the ffmpeg upstream doesn't understand how ffmpeg is really used | 11:22 |
| RememberPOL | so all non-fiesty ubuntu users have to upgrade to fiesty before being able to play flv files. | 11:22 |
| RememberPOL | :x | 11:22 |
| LaserJock | well, software progresses. Sometimes you have to upgrade to get what you want | 11:23 |
| Burgwork | yes | 11:23 |
| RememberPOL | k | 11:23 |
| lamont | so how come my phone will pair with my home machine, but not with my laptop? | 11:23 |
| Burgwork | I would write the ffmpeg people and complain to them about how they cannot keep api/abi stability | 11:23 |
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| RememberPOL | i guess i'll just install vlc/flash on my windows vm | 11:23 |
| Burgwork | and what it hell is causes end users | 11:23 |
| lamont | Burgwork: or at least learn about sonames | 11:23 |
| LaserJock | RememberPOL: we would have to also update every package that is built using ffmpeg | 11:24 |
| Burgwork | lamont: anything at all, besides "install from cvs" | 11:24 |
| lamont | that is, they can change the abi if they must, but they should version the soname | 11:24 |
| lamont | right | 11:24 |
| === lamont wonders what distro/os they use themselves... | ||
| lamont | certain distros are prone to produce "what's an soname?" type questions from the developers... kinda scary | 11:24 |
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| RememberPOL | Sweet I solved my issue (of FLV video not playing in Xubuntu 6.10 due to outdated ffmpeg [fixed in fiesty-7.04, not being backported because ffmpeg breaks api/abi] ) by downloading http://download.macromedia.com/pub/flashplayer/updaters/9/flash_player_9_linux_dev.tar.gz then extracting libflashplayer.so and flashplayer.xpt from /flash_player_9_linux_dev/plugin/debugger/install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz/install_flash_player_9_linu | 12:03 |
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