[12:13] a sort of commit rollout + dependecies etc. [12:14] when the trasaction is stable in testing and compilant with the policies it will bel applied to the stable "trunk" [12:14] s/bel/be [12:14] seems like it requires a lot of "policing" [12:15] and I'm not seeing a clear advantage to a time-based release [12:15] not a lot of policiing somthing like in the wiki stub are already good [12:15] the trasaction is only a concept for loking packages with dependencies [12:17] you could not upload a new upstream release if the upload broke the trasaction already in testing (for example abi changes) [12:17] it would just seem to me that a constantly moving target would not be as stable, as supportable, nor able to make changes as well [12:17] at least to a "release" level [12:17] for development or "unstable" purposes it seem to make some sense [12:18] basically like what unstable is for the most part [12:18] probably but this work around many problem about backporting upstream bugs [12:18] we need an extra work for backporting upstream bug fixing in stable release [12:19] without a proper "stable" release we could try to itroduce slowly new upstream version in the trasaction [12:19] I don't think people want that [12:20] HrdwrBob: probably :) we could talking also about this [12:20] "I am running Ubuntu X.XX [12:20] is a lot easier than [12:20] "oh I last updated foo and bar, here is my complete system version list" [12:21] mhh... the alterative is I'am running Ubuntu without any X.XX [12:21] Evaso2: your idea is similar to Gentoo it would seem [12:21] Evaso2: but you have no idea what package versions you are running with that [12:21] what if a person doesn't have internet access [12:21] or limited access [12:21] [12:21] [12:22] they may still have whatever version was on the "snapshot" [12:22] TheMuso: I agree [12:22] ajmitch: lol [12:22] LaserJock the problem of internet access is relative also at security fix [12:22] speakup decided to screw with sticking keys again after switching to this box using a kvm [12:22] Evaso2: yes it is [12:23] LaserJock : or also at stable upgrade that fix bugs [12:23] sure [12:23] but if you have no internet wouldn't you rather have a tested, stabilized distro then the latest "daily" [12:24] we could simply have a checksum to know if we run the actual sistem [12:24] probably updates could will come 1 time at week [12:24] so trasaction will be committed to stable one time at week [12:24] when ready [12:25] well, I doubt that Debian or Ubuntu would be good fits for this system [12:25] but perhaps some derivatives might want to try it [12:25] it might have some advantages [12:25] for us I think the time based release also provide timelines for development [12:25] it is an alternative concept about not to compleetly break the upstream flow [12:26] it has both technical and social consequences [12:27] but the time based release will be relative to meet the periodical trasaction clock for prepare the trasaction from the devel system [12:27] the time based release could be fragmentated and not so monolitich [12:29] for example on the next transaction clock in the meeting we coiche to complete and polish the python x.x trasaction [12:30] naturally this transaction must be well tested in the dev system (no rc or important bug) before could be committed [12:31] this could let also to us to shorting the time we could integrate upstream bugfixing instead to try to backporting it === jwendell [n=wendell@ubuntu/member/wendell] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rpereira [n=rpereira@ubuntu/member/rpereira] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shackan [n=shackan@82.53.86.144] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:37] LaserJock: There is still a some kind of weekly or monthly or clock time oriented goals [12:38] if I want to report a bug in the gnome doofer that comes up when i press the volume control soft keys on my laptop, what would that be? [12:38] hmm, hotkey-setup? === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:43] wow, just doing an upgrade and suddenly everything is totally gouging the cpu [12:43] like, gconftool-2 suching 80% over at least a minute [12:44] hrm, no, longer [12:46] Evaso2: you're free to start an Ubuntu derivative which works that way and try it out, but I'm pretty confident that Ubuntu isn't going to make that sort of change. Sorry. [12:48] cjwatson: it is only for talking about an issue i doesn't want to create a fork for a derivate only for test an idea [12:48] I'm sorry, but we're not going to do it within Ubuntu [12:48] Evaso2: i tend to think that method will eventually take over, but it would require an enormous amount of work right now [12:49] jdub: what do u mean for "take over"? [12:50] Evaso2: it will become the 'normal' way free software is delivered [12:50] jdub: really or are u joking? :) [12:50] it would not be compatible with Canonical's commercial processes without serious (and expensive) reengineering of those processes [12:50] it's much easier to do this sort of thing when you're starting a project [12:51] once the project is up and running, change at that sort of fundamental level is difficult and expensive [12:51] and once people's jobs are depending on success, there's more resistance to untried ideas [12:51] cjwatson: sure i'm also sure that it has too many reengineering [12:51] cjwatson: i agree with u on this two issues [12:52] Evaso2: no, i'm not joking; but that's just my take on what the future may bring [12:53] I'm not really convinced that it can supply coherent enough support commitments and user messaging [12:53] jdub: yes my was only a teoric discussion i doesn't think really that ubuntu or debian could really partical try somthing like this [12:53] but this is the wrong forum to go into it in detail === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DAF6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:54] there are already support problem in ubuntu because it cannot control time freeze release for all the foss apps === rideout [n=rideout@71-215-90-16.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:55] this is issue was already in a Mark post on his blog [12:56] mainly the ubuntu choiche is to sync with gnome time release clock [12:56] "the current system is imperfect" does not imply "any other possible choice is better" [12:56] I was not arguing that the current system was perfect [12:57] but, within the context of Ubuntu, efforts are better spent on minor tweaks than on total scorched-earth release process redesign, at this point [12:57] i think that no one system is perfect and mainly is not perfect forever for an evolving word :) [12:57] by necessity, the latter will essentially produce no useful results except for possibly the founding of a new project to experiment with it [12:57] warty was when we were free to experiment :) [12:58] within the context of "we release in six months... starting from before X people were even here" ;-) [12:58] i think that probably could be experimented only with a little number of packages to try to test the system [12:58] I'm aware that the current process has its trade-offs; I was there (and argued about them) when it was set up [12:58] (as was jdub) [12:59] but you need to recognise that every process has its trade-offs, and you would simply be exchanging one set of disadvantages for another [12:59] i think that actually the problem is every distro is overloaded on distro vs upstream issue [01:00] pages about release processes need to explicitly acknowledge the disadvantages as well as the advantages, otherwise they're just advocacy [01:00] yes for my stub i see problem with debian (but less with ubuntu) [01:01] for debian a see a problem to try to put in a good state a trasaction that keep too many time [01:01] so begin to missing many upstream releases [01:02] and this problem could be the same with the universe side of ubuntu [01:02] brr, this cpu hogging business is bizaare [01:03] upstream has its work time but if you are to slow to but dependecies trasaction in a good shape you begin to miss upstream release while you fix package with dependecies (what i call a trasaction ecosystem) === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:04] s/too slow to put === titfortat [n=josh@24.115.218.54.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cyberix [n=cyberix@hoas-fe17dd00-69.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:06] https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-panel/+bug/81205 [01:06] Malone bug 81205 in gnome-panel "Clock applet doesn't allow me to choose Monday as the starting day of the week" [Unknown,Unknown] [01:07] hmm, do only *some* bugs appear here? [01:07] oh, sorry, that's ubunu-bugs isn't i [01:07] popey: only ones which people call. Such as bug 12345 [01:07] Malone bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345 [01:07] /ignore popey [01:07] but probably in the future the new linuxfoundation (osdl + fsg) with the lsb a linux kernell could try to begin to define a universal linux syncro clock to sync all the major linux distro (and problably many little opensource project begin to sync releases to this clock) [01:09] so we will have a sort of universal timeline to sync (the opposit of tha actual FOSS asyncro system) === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman_ [i=gman@nat/sun/x-86bbbda847fd2bc2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rpereira [n=rpereira@ubuntu/member/rpereira] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cyberix [n=cyberix@hoas-fe17dd00-69.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === null__ [n=null@g624-9034.itee.uq.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === beuno [n=martin@201-212-189-176.net.prima.net.ar] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aussieaubs [n=aubrey@ambrose.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robertj__ [n=robertj@66-168-215-105.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman_ [i=gman@nat/sun/x-eb9a8e99e88a8ae6] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sabdfl [n=sabdfl@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-200-45.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vinboy [n=vinboy@125-238-83-231.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman__ [i=gman@nat/sun/x-42bbf27dea87a6ae] has joined #ubuntu-devel === apokryphos- [n=francis@unaffiliated/apokryphos] has joined #ubuntu-devel === apokryphos- [n=francis@unaffiliated/apokryphos] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@16-9.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:15] any core dev people around? i'm looking for a sponsor === cypher1 [i=cypher1@nat/hp/x-149c2ab74857024a] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman__ is now known as Gman === pounk [n=pounk@ip216-239-78-51.vif.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === `anthony [n=anthony@ekorp-218-185-9-170.eoff.ekorp.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === poningru_ [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === johanbr [n=j@blk-137-114-65.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === somerville32 [n=somervil@ubuntu/member/somerville32] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aussieaubs [n=aubrey@ambrose.its.monash.edu.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === mayday_jay [n=mayday_j@maydayjay.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === herzi [n=herzi@kiwi.mediascape.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === somerville32 [n=somervil@ubuntu/member/somerville32] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jack_wyt [n=jack@211.154.174.45] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jack_wyt [n=jack@211.154.174.45] has joined #ubuntu-devel === macd [n=d@adsl-222-63-47.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ziGx [n=dont@216-15-4-93.c3-0.snmt-ubr4.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@202.75.46.41] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === macd [n=d@adsl-222-63-47.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MagicFab [n=MagicFab@205.205.80.154] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdub [n=jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === macd [n=d@adsl-222-63-47.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rideout_ [n=rideout@c-24-8-194-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rideout__ [n=rideout@71-215-90-16.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Huahua [n=hua@122.0.229.171] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vinboy_ [n=vinboy@125-238-82-222.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vinboy_ [n=vinboy@125-238-82-222.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz [n=mdz@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [n=fabbione@vpn-nat.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko [n=doko@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos [n=carlos@168.Red-88-17-199.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:11] good morning === Nuscly [n=nuscly@29-231.206-83.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:13] pitti: you're in ubuntu-archive in LP now too, so you should be a full archive admin; let me know if there's anything you can't do [09:13] pitti: you want to subscribe to ubuntu-archive@lists.ubuntu.com, probably. [09:14] cjwatson: just checked, account seems to be ok; thanks [09:14] Mithrandir: alright === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:17] ah, thanks for adding me to the team, just appeared === rraphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:21] pitti: what's wrong with this picture? -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/feisty-20070123-7.png === Zdra [n=zdra@174.198-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Huahua [n=hua@122.0.229.171] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:22] Keybuk: your machine seems to be bored for a while while booting. === hunger [n=tobias@pd95b0676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:22] Mithrandir: bored with S08loopback even [09:22] yeah, seems like it can't resolve its own hostname === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:23] "host" is running for exactly ten seconds. [09:25] Mithrandir: yes [09:25] it's not unusual to have no DNS server when you're only bringing up lo :p [09:26] it's not trying to resolve its hostname, but looking for a local SOA === Keybuk would argue that needs a "!= lo" in there [09:26] Keybuk: ifrename... ;) [09:27] Treenaks: ? [09:28] Keybuk: isn't it possible to rename the 'lo' device to something else? [09:28] Or will that break other things horribly too? [09:28] I don't think it's possible [09:28] ok, nevermind then [09:28] Keybuk: yup, there's a bug about it === mbiebl [n=michael@e180069230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:29] Keybuk: bug 80268 [09:29] Malone bug 80268 in avahi "Avahi daemon should not try to resolve hostnames during bootup" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80268 [09:30] seb128: if you could come over here afterwards and I'll fix up the rest of the bits of the greasemonkey script for you. [09:31] Mithrandir: now or after the debhelper demo? [09:32] seb128: whenever you want. :-) [09:32] ok, after the demo then ;) [09:33] hey Mithrandir, seb128, and Keybuk [09:33] hi Hobbsee [09:33] morning, Hobbsee [09:34] ;) [09:37] Riddell: do you want to add knetwork-manager to your -desktop seed yourself or should I do it? [09:37] lifeless: look at bug 81237, that's a funny one [09:37] Malone bug 81237 in apport "Errors from python interpreter give apport crash dialog!" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81237 [09:38] lifeless: (just to amuse you, I'll fix it) [09:41] pitti: ah yeah, jamesh and I had a fix for it [09:42] pitti: its not trivial to fix. I'll dig up the log about the right way later [09:42] lifeless: oh, I thought about something like 'InterpreterPath == ExecutablePath -> ignore' [09:42] pitti: 'python foo.py' -> foo.py may be packaged [09:43] lifeless: check the arguments then, too? hmm [09:43] there are a couple of variables we can cross check though [09:43] its in my irc logs from las year somewhere ;)' [09:46] lifeless: if I run python in /usr/lib, I get ExecutablePath == /usr/lib [09:50] you don't exclude /usr/local from that? [09:50] I've had that dialog at least once for a python script in /usr/local/bin [09:50] Keybuk: I do [09:50] Keybuk: ah, probably not for interpreted scripts [09:51] Keybuk: this is about interactive python, but if you get a dialog when you shouldn't, file a bug with some details ;) [09:52] lifeless: bug #81244 [09:52] Malone bug 81244 in apport "Is run for programs in /usr/local" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81244 [09:52] Keybuk: thanks === dholbach [n=daniel@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:53] dholbach: does work yet? [09:54] cjwatson: yes [09:54] hmm [09:54] cjwatson: 'not' too [09:54] can't get 79029 to match "no active autopartitioning choice" [09:54] do you have the clue file for that somewhere so I can try myself? [09:54] cjwatson: ^ [09:55] (that would be a false positive as it happens, but still) [09:55] <\sh> moins [09:55] dholbach: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity.info [09:56] I'd suggest hacking bughelper to limit to just bug 79029 or it'll take forever [09:56] Malone bug 79029 in ubiquity "Feisty Herd2 - Installer crashed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/79029 [09:56] <\sh> sabdfl, thank you for your mail :) [09:56] cjwatson: i'll give it a special bug list url but thanks for the hint [09:57] Mithrandir: it's already in === mvo [n=egon@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:57] Riddell: coolie [09:59] cjwatson: working on it === rpereira [n=rpereira@ubuntu/member/rpereira] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:04] cjwatson: can you try http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/possiblefix.patch ? [10:06] trying === dholbach [n=daniel@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:08] cjwatson: does ./bughelper -A -l http://tinyurl.com/2ykot4 work for you? === Harti [n=Harti@unaffiliated/harti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@backup.grad.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=markus@a89-182-21-32.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [n=fabbione@vpn-nat.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === davmor2 [n=davmor2@62-30-74-119.cable.ubr04.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:57] <\sh> doko: if you have time, can you look at http://librarian.launchpad.net/5720669/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.ldaptor_0.0.43-0.4ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz and tell me how can we fix it (e.g. setting it back to python2.4) [11:00] I note the command that fails is dia -t png-libart --export=ldap-is-a-tree.dia.png.tmp ldap-is-a-tree.dia [11:01] <\sh> oh my god...right..i didn't see the glibc warning... === \sh needs new glases [11:04] There's no bug against it, either. [11:05] *** glibc detected *** dia: free(): invalid pointer: 0x09392ea0 *** [11:05] fix dia :) [11:05] StevenK: there is a bug against dia for that.. === twilight [n=twilight@ubuntu/member/twilight] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:06] Treenaks: Oh? I must of missed it. [11:06] StevenK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dia/+bug/79188 [11:06] Malone bug 79188 in dia "Dia hangs while starting" [High,Confirmed] [11:06] Ah, I was looking for bugs mentioning glibc [11:06] StevenK: well, it does mention it.. in the description text === StevenK nods. [11:07] So, which lucky person gets to valgrind dia? :-) [11:07] fabbione: what about you fixing bugs instead of just pointing them? ;) [11:07] StevenK: seb128 ;) [11:08] Actually, doko touched it last. :-) [11:08] StevenK: the upstream SVN has the required changes, that's a "work with new python" change [11:08] it's trivial to backport probably [11:08] seb128: Point me at the patch, and I'm happy to throw you a debdiff? [11:08] the problem is that it has been commited to CVS and touch like 15 files, and there is not an unique changeset [11:09] you need to look at every file change and collect the diffs, which I've been to busy or lazy to do [11:09] wait [11:09] http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/dia/trunk/plug-ins/python/ [11:09] " * plug-ins/python/*.c : don't mix PyObject_NEW() with PyMem_DEL()" [11:10] grab that diff for every file [11:10] that will probably work === Harti [n=Harti@unaffiliated/harti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:15] seb128: because it's part of my new job to just point them out :) [11:15] that's not support request [11:15] what other new job did you get? [11:16] seb128: handing over all my stuff to you ;) [11:16] I don't think so [11:17] seb128: it's fun tho :) === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:18] I don't doubt of it :p === Harti [n=Harti@unaffiliated/harti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:22] Come on librarian, send me data slower. [11:22] hi [11:23] \sh, StevenK: reverting to 2.4 is not an option; better fix the 2.5 bugs === tkamppeter [n=till@bl8-117-164.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:24] doko: Doing so now === geser [n=michael@ubuntu/member/geser] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:24] StevenK: thanks [11:24] doko: I shall bug either you or seb128 when I have a debdiff for dia [11:24] StevenK: attach it to the bug, I'll do the upload [11:24] seb128: Aye. I'll poke you here when I've done so [11:24] cool [11:27] I have a question about getting new packages from universe to main. I have made the appropriate reports and added the packages to the queue, but when I announce it on ubuntu-devel, I get messages that my postings await moderator approval because I am not a developer. Where should I announce my main inclusion requests? === kaptengu [n=kaptengu@c213-100-60-132.swipnet.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:27] ubuntu-devel-discuss is the open list and probably the best place. [11:29] Then I think the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements should be appropriately changed. [11:29] <\sh> doko, thx :) [11:29] mdke: around? [11:29] seb128: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back) [11:30] mdke: have your changes for the help menu been approved and need to be applied? [11:30] Like: 3. # [11:30] The request and the link to the report are sent to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com or ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com. === rpereirab [n=rpereira@ubuntu/member/rpereira] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lmanul [n=manu@dan75-4-82-239-58-38.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:38] tkamppeter: I think ubuntu-devel is appropriate. === Keybuk [n=scott@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:38] although there is an open question of whether it makes sense to post MIRs to a mailing list at all === jinty [n=jinty@238.Red-83-49-48.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === KaiL [n=KaiL@p548F49A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:40] sfllaw: I have the edit back.ping me when you want this meeting [11:41] cjwatson, then we should really change the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements. Which address do you like should I send the announcements of main inlusion requests to? [11:41] tkamppeter: I have updated the process following a brief discussion here [11:42] tkamppeter: you do not need to announce it anywhere; Martin Pitt (the primary reviewer) gets notified via a wiki subscription [11:43] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements fixed [11:44] cjwatson, thanks. === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:56] lifeless: seems that sys.argv == [''] for interactive python sessions even if I run 'python -O -E' [11:57] lifeless: that's why your binary = os.path.join(cwd,argv[0] ) produces '/usr/local' === davmor2 [n=davmor2@62-30-74-119.cable.ubr04.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Loevborg [n=loevborg@dslb-084-056-044-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jwendell [n=wendell@ubuntu/member/wendell] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:14] seb128: Bug 79188 updated with my debdiff. I have tested that I can reproduce the problem, and also that my fix does indeed fix the problem. [12:14] Malone bug 79188 in dia "Dia hangs while starting" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/79188 [12:14] StevenK: good, I'll have a look now, thank you [12:15] seb128: Great, thanks. And no problem. :-) === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [n=fabbione@vpn-nat.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:19] seb128, StevenK, i'm just trying to get the dia from experimental building ... i'd assume that patch is included [12:19] right [12:20] ogra: let me know if it works fine, otherwise I'll upload the patched package [12:20] yep [12:20] Mithrandir: or another archive admin, ping? [12:20] only finishing the tuxtype build ... === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cjwatson_ [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === `anthony [n=anthony@220-253-53-223.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:27] Hobbsee: humm? [12:27] Mithrandir: i think there were two uploads of murrine today? can you make sure the last one gets uploaded please? :) === Hobbsee got confused with revu [12:29] 159376 | S- | murrine | 0.41-0ubuntu1 | 7 hours 30 minutes [12:29] | * murrine/0.41-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: gnome [12:29] 159377 | S- | murrine | 0.41-0ubuntu1 | 7 hours 20 minutes [12:29] | * murrine/0.41-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: gnome [12:29] so yes, two uploads. :-P [12:30] I'm merging casper now, I can do it afterwards. [12:32] Mithrandir: :( realised after i'd uploaded the first one, went "bugger" [12:32] cool, thanks :) === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-69-128.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === frennkie [n=Miranda@p54B0174C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:40] Hello, does anybody know how likely it is that there will be a backport of libc6-xen for Dapper Drake LTS (6.06) (see: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/50331/+viewstatus) [12:40] Malone bug 50331 in glibc "Please backport libc6-xen" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed] [12:42] okay, so what does unconfirmed mean ? === jack_wyt [n=jack@211.154.174.45] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:48] what is the nature of the breakage on Dapper? does it affect security? === sahin_w [i=kvirc@nat/hp/x-39e10845e0b8d4c2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cypher1 [i=cypher1@nat/hp/x-9501e2926ac08ab2] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:51] frennkie: not going to happen. [12:51] *cry* why not, do you know? [12:51] Mithrandir: well, the backporters might decide to smoke their crack pipe, again... [12:52] Hobbsee: well, I just rejected it and I would be really, really surprised if any other archive admin though it was a good idea. [12:52] frennkie: because we don't backport core libraries like, glibc. [12:53] Mithrandir: heh, yes, i know. i thougth the ubuntu backporters were separate to you guys - jdong's team [12:53] Hobbsee: they're still subject to ubuntu-archive approval. [12:53] ah :) [12:54] ok, thats a point.. but as dapper, will be around and used for another 4 Years maybe it would be good to have proper xen supoort in it.. [12:54] frennkie: i believe you just got told by one of the 3 archive admins "no" - that's very very unlikely to change... [12:54] frennkie: sure, that would be nice. Unfortunately, as long as that means backporting glibc, it's not going to happen. [12:56] okay, got it now. thx! === pochu [n=Pochu@179.Red-88-7-169.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === trickie [n=nick@basesoft.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === frennkie [n=Miranda@p54B0174C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:02] ogra: Any news, re: dia? [01:03] StevenK, seems 0.96-pre1 is gone ... seb128 will apply your patch [01:03] (i got it from alioth some weeks ago ... it ftbfs'ed ... seems they didnt get it fixed) [01:03] ogra: Great, thanks [01:04] ogra: you can also grab the new tarball and do the update if you want ;) [01:04] after lunch then :) === thom_ is now known as thom === Keybuk [n=scott@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TeTeT [n=spindler@modemcable178.77-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cypher1_ [i=cypher1@nat/hp/x-bbe1818c227d65b1] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz [n=mdz@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givr1 [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-92-183.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === h4writer [n=h4writer@d51A48402.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yagisan [n=Yagisan@doomsday/developer/Yagisan] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:56] (gnome) can I ask here how come that a list of anything sometimes shows white places? Like the user list in Gaim. Or the list of menus in "menu layout". If I'm not wrong those are created with python: treeview (treestore) === Huahua [n=hua@122.0.229.171] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:57] does anyone here have moderator privileges on the "Installation and Upgrades" forum on ubuntuforums.org? I need a comment marked sticky [01:57] But it is annoying and I need to be fixed [01:57] *it === Keybuk [n=scott@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:58] h4writer: this is not a support channel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:58] h4writer: also, use launchpad.net to file bugs [01:58] ok [01:58] thanks === rideout [n=rideout@71-215-90-16.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spo0nman [i=pankaj@unaffiliated/spo0nman] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jack_wyt [n=jack@211.154.174.45] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jack_wyt [n=jack@211.154.174.45] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Tonio_ [n=tonio@243.207.103-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === alex-weej [n=alex@halls-129-31-82-59.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:38] StevenK, seb128, do we have a bug for the dia segfault ? i just uploaded [02:38] ogra: uploaded what? [02:38] dia [02:38] what version? [02:39] 0.95.0-4.1ubuntu3 [02:39] grumpf [02:39] the patched one with StevenK's patch ... [02:39] I had that ready [02:39] i told you i'D do it after lunch when you asked [02:40] ogra: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dia/+bug/79188 [02:40] Malone bug 79188 in dia "Dia hangs while starting" [High,Confirmed] [02:40] thx [02:40] np === Stargazers [i=stargaze@kapsi.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:41] Hi. I have a question about Python and Feisty. Is there problems with Feisty locales or something, cause jBrout should add IPTC as UTF-8, but it won't do it on Feisty? [02:42] And always I get errormessage in Feisty, I paste a url of errormessage, moment. [02:42] http://stargazers.kapsi.fi/screenshots/errormessage.jpg <-- This kind. This won't appear on Dapper or Edgy. [02:44] I mean, if I write IPTC-tags with DigiKam 0.9.0 and then look in jBrout, scandinavian chars won't work. And same if I add tags with jBrout and then look them DigiKam, scandinavian chars won't work. But it seems that problem is on jBrout that writes tags without UTF-8, but programmer said that it does. So, is there problem in Python packages in Feisty now? === thekorn [n=markus@a89-182-17-174.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stgraber [n=stgraber@client80-83-51-125.abo.net2000.ch] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LongPointyStick [n=user@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === twilight [n=twilight@ubuntu/member/twilight] has joined #ubuntu-devel === auTONYmous [i=T1Tony@gateway/tor/x-885ab3f2ce381df4] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:06] grr [03:06] every time i try to install build dependencies [03:06] i just get a message like [03:06] E: Build-dependencies for gossip could not be satisfied. [03:06] i have no idea what's going on, anyone got an idea? [03:06] alex-weej: not enough info [03:06] alex-weej: means that one of the build deps is broken [03:06] alex-weej: that's not an user support chan [03:06] ie, not installable [03:07] and it's the wrong channel [03:07] seb128: i'm trying to "develop" [03:07] alex-weej: still not the right chan, that's not a chan to ask how to build a package [03:07] whatever === alex-weej [n=alex@halls-129-31-82-59.hor.ic.ac.uk] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [03:07] heh === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sbalneav [n=sbalneav@mail.legalaid.mb.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Huahua__ [n=hua@122.0.231.60] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:15] mvo: you can close bug 81225 [03:15] Malone bug 81225 in realplayer "realplay requires libc6 2.5" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81225 === erdinc [n=d4af7366@server10.hosting2go.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:23] crimsun got a sec? === Gega [n=Gega@unaffiliated/gega] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gega [n=Gega@unaffiliated/gega] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation] === stratus [n=stratus@cronopio.rits.org.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === alsaberk [n=root@212.156.210.124] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:29] hi erdinc === alsaberk [n=root@212.156.210.124] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation] === erdinc [n=d4af7356@server10.hosting2go.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vinboy [n=vinboy@125-238-82-222.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-67-238.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:41] seb128, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/dia/ === thekorn [n=markus@a89-182-17-174.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vinboy [n=vinboy@125-238-82-222.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vinboy [n=vinboy@125-238-82-222.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@e180087217.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:48] cliebow use this: http://cekirdek.pardus.org.tr/~ismail/dist/bcm43xx-firmware-3.130.20.0.tar.bz2 === vinboy [n=vinboy@125-238-82-222.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === erdinc [n=d4af7356@server10.hosting2go.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === bddebian [n=bdefrees@63.81.56.182] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:54] Heya === laz0r [n=laz0r@port-87-234-144-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:56] are you guys aware that libc6-dev from archive.ubuntu.com main is unfetchable... [03:57] http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/glibc/libc6-dev_2.4-1ubuntu12.2_i386.deb [03:57] that URL [03:57] generates 403/forbidden [03:57] yes, it's deliberate [03:58] ah [03:58] recalling an update? [03:58] elmo: is it listed in Packages at all ? [03:58] lifeless: yes [03:58] meep. analyzer fall down go boom [03:59] jdong: yes [04:00] is this related to the libc6 update not liking libpthread.so.20 thing? [04:00] yes [04:01] ah, ok [04:01] lovely :) [04:01] and the toe bone is conneted to the foot bone [04:01] hehe === jdong is done playing 20 questions [04:02] jdong: dont you mean .20 questions ? [04:02] LOL [04:02] BOO === Keybuk still hasn't figured out why anyone would have libpthread20 installed === _TomB [n=tomb@host81-156-203-232.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong is equally confused [04:05] or why anyone would have a /usr/lib/libc.so.6 symlink [04:06] Keybuk: it gets pulled in by gnupg-agent, for instance. [04:06] hmm, no [04:06] that's libpth2 [04:06] Mithrandir: no, that's libpth20 [04:06] Mithrandir: I can't find anything that rdepends libpthread20.... [04:06] but I have come across 3 users that experienced the update problem [04:06] perhaps its installed from $old-version [04:07] perhaps [04:07] what is the officially sane workaround for this, BTW [04:08] wait [04:08] mmm :) === jdong probably committed a taboo with how he helped those 3 people..... :D === jsgotangco [i=de7c1446@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-bd4710e1977bb1ce] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:13] ogra: I can accept python-ltsp on the condition that you clean up debian/ ; you're shipping effectively empty post- and preinsts (remove them), same goes for README.Debian, your debian/rules file has a configure target, but the package has no configure program, so it's useless. [04:14] Mithrandir, python-central rewrites the postinst files during build === Stargazers [i=stargaze@kapsi.fi] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [04:15] but i'm fine dropping README.Debian and cleaning rules [04:15] (python-central through dh_pycentral) [04:16] ogra: yes, it replaces the #DEBHELPER# token. If you don't have any live code in there yourself, remove the file. === jinty [n=jinty@111.Red-83-49-48.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:17] does it still create it ? i thought it needs a skeleton ... === froud [n=sean@dsl-242-133-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:17] but if that works i'll remove it [04:19] *confused* [04:20] whose the best person to speak to about packaging of docbook and docbook-xsl? [04:20] cjwatson: ping; did you find the moderators you were looking for? === MikeSmith [n=MikeSmit@74.92.22.254] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:23] <_MMA_> Mithrandir: Have you had a chance to look at the ubuntustudio-meta package again or will someone else be looking at it? [04:24] _MMA_: it was accepted half an hour ago. [04:24] Over at docbook project we're trying to contact all package maintainers for DocBook. How can I discover who is doing this for Ubuntu? [04:24] <_MMA_> Thank you. Ill let my team know. ;) === Keybuk [n=scott@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MikeSmith waves [04:26] I do the docbook-xsl builds and releases [04:26] the upstream ones [04:27] I'd like to help get the edgy docbook-xsl package more up-to-date/synced up with the Debian one [04:27] Mithrandir, all fixed, want me to upload the fixed one before you approve ? [04:27] ogra: nah, I put it in, but please upload the new one. [04:27] Debian docbook-xsl is at 1.71.0.dfsg.1-1.1 [04:27] Mithrandir, will do as soon as the accepted mail is here ... thansk a lot [04:27] *thanks [04:27] edgy one is at 1.68.1.dfsg.1-0.2 [04:28] which is very very old now [04:28] 18 months or more old [04:29] MikeSmith: apt-cache show says Adam Di Carlo [04:29] for docbook [04:29] and Mark Johnson for docbook-xsl [04:30] MikeSmith: docbook-xsl in feisty is 1.71.0.dfsg.1-1.1 [04:30] Mithrandir: yes, but dapper ppl what repository updated ... what to do? === hermanr_ [n=herman@190.80-202-79.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:31] froud: nothing? We're not introducing new upstream versions in released distributions. [04:31] froud - DocBook stylesheet package is docbook-xsl [04:31] and I know the Debian packager for it quite well === seb128 [n=seb@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:32] my concern is just about making sure that Ubuntu users have easy access to the latest [04:32] Mithrandir - thanks [04:32] MikeSmith: seams they must install manual or dist-upgrade :-) [04:33] Mithrandir, hmm, i had the accepted message from soyuz ... but get a NEW message for the next upload ... seems i had a little race condition here ... sorry [04:33] froud, Mithrandir - OK. So updated package don't get backported to dapper and edgy? === hermanr_ [n=herman@190.80-202-79.nextgentel.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [04:34] MikeSmith: correct. That is, they can be requested, but they're not automatically backported. [04:34] (requested into -backports, not into the normal repo) [04:34] Mithrandir: who does that? === pradeep_ [n=pradeep@59.92.70.75] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:35] froud: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportsHowto === MikeSmith bookmarks that page === dholbach_ [n=daniel@scandic759.host.songnetworks.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:36] jdong: ping ping ping ping ping [04:36] Keybuk: pong pong pong pong pong pong? [04:36] -1 === ogra shades his ears [04:36]