[12:27] <willvdl_> stelis, I'm not sure to be honset
[12:27] <willvdl_> familiar with http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted?
[12:28] <willvdl_> It has an install guide which really shouldn't live in the drupal www site anymore
[12:28] <stelis> I hadn't seen that before - it's kind of what I was thinking of
[12:30] <willvdl> hmm, my ghost is following me
[12:30] <stelis> I'm seeing double :)
[12:31] <willvdl> stelis, I guess an installation guide would go in the handbook
[12:31] <willvdl> but I can't help thinking it would have value as a seperate doc as well. Should ask the doc team I guess, I'm sure this debate has been round before
[12:32] <willvdl> but then the handbook could guide through different types of installations for different network types
[12:32] <stelis> I don't know, but I'd like to be able to point people at something that can get them started
[12:32] <stelis> I've run across a couple of people on forums with a small room of computers that they'd like to get going
[12:33] <stelis> And not sure where to start with Edubuntu
[12:34] <stelis> Which is a shame, because it's really simple for that kind of setup...
[12:39] <willvdl> stelis, any help you can give in docs is greatly appreciated
[12:42] <stelis> I'm tempted to try something in the style of the page you linked to - very concise, with pictures.
[12:44] <stelis> But not tonight :). Cheers.
[01:05] <willvdl> ciao
[02:55] <macreds> anyone out there instal edubuntu on an iMac
[08:53] <juliux> morning
[08:55] <Burgundavia> morning juliux
[08:55] <Burgundavia> hey RichEd
[08:55] <RichEd> hey guys
[08:56] <juliux> hi Burgundavia RichEd
[09:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi all
[09:28] <RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser ...
[09:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> gday
[09:35] <RichEd> is Oz as hot as SA today ... we're looking at 38C for Cape Town ... much hotter than we normally expect
[09:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> its hot, but im not sure how hot. its hot enough for me to have doors+windows open and still be hot
[09:47] <ajmitch> hi
[09:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi :)
[09:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> Mount Barker: Min 12    Max 29 <- hot enough :/
[10:00] <cbx33> hey ajmitch
[10:08] <juliux> hi ogra
[10:08] <ogra> hi
[10:09] <juliux> ogra, is there a way to download the edubuntu dailies with jigdo?
[10:09] <juliux> they cut down my internet traffic to 1,5gb per week
[10:18] <SiCk> morning all
[10:18] <SiCk> the annoyance has arrived
[10:19] <cbx33> oh no
[10:19] <cbx33> hehe
[10:19] <SiCk> :D haha
[10:19] <cbx33> hi SiCk
[10:19] <SiCk> hey cbx33
[10:19] <SiCk> :)
[10:20] <SiCk> more problems today.. but at the moment i'm trying to work this one out for myself now that i've had a bit of experience
[10:20] <SiCk> thanks to ogra's wonderful help
[10:20] <cbx33> he is a great help
[10:20] <cbx33> hi nixternal
[10:26] <SiCk> is #!/bin/sh a valid syntax in an xsession file?
[10:30] <SiCk> I'm in work... on my birthday... :(
[10:30] <SiCk> *cry*
[10:36] <Anson> Hey all
[10:39] <Anson> any one know why edubuntu wont install on my laptop? for some reason, when ever i choose install {this is when my cd boots up } it'll load a thing or 2 then just sit at a black screen doing jack all???
[10:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> Anson, whats the spec of the laptop?
[10:40] <cbx33> SiCk: awwww
[10:41] <Anson> amd turion 64 ml-37 2.0 ghz
[10:41] <Anson> 100gb hd
[10:41] <Anson> 1gb ddr ram
[10:41] <Anson> ati radeon xpress 200m
[10:41] <SiCk> i know cbx33 :( i got tomorrow off though, so heavy drinking tonight is in order
[10:41] <SiCk> haha
[10:42] <cbx33> heh
[10:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> Anson, are you trying to use 6.10? 32 or 64 bit version?
[10:42] <Anson> 64 bit
[10:42] <Anson> and 6.06
[10:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> could you get a 6.10, or would that be impractical?
[10:43] <Anson> i could get it yea
[10:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> could you try that please? 32 or 64 bit version
[10:44] <Anson> k :P
[10:44] <Anson> aw man it's gonna take me 7 hours =[
[10:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> :(
[10:48] <Anson> so was there a problem with 6.06 or anything?
[10:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> Anson, i dont have a 64bit computer, so i dont have much idea of what could be wrong, i do know that 610 worked better then 6.06 for some other 64bit systems
[10:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> hoping it works for you....
[10:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> s/i dont have a 64 bit computer/ i dont have a 64 bit x86 computer/g
[10:50] <Anson> i hope so too =[ i like edubuntu, i have it on my p4
[10:51] <Anson> :)
[10:51] <Anson> well thanks, i'm head to bed lmao, not gonna wait 7 hours
[10:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol. night.
[11:07] <SiCk> its my birthday, im in work, AND i have to copy roaming profiles from one server to another, then back later because someone wants to reformat the server.
[11:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> :(
[11:09] <juliux> did somebody test feisty installation in vmwareserver?
[11:11] <cbx33> yes
[11:11] <cbx33> failed
[11:12] <cbx33> well ltsp did
[11:12] <juliux> cbx33, here it hangsup after the keyboard detection
[11:15] <cbx33> oh yes
[11:15] <cbx33> sorry there is a fix for that
[11:15] <cbx33> um
[11:15] <cbx33> when installing
[11:15] <cbx33> press F^
[11:15] <cbx33> F6
[11:15] <cbx33> and add....
[11:15] <cbx33> hwdetect/start_pcmcia=false
[11:15] <cbx33> i think
[11:15] <cbx33> maybe hw-detect
[11:15] <cbx33> search LP there is a bug report
[11:16] <juliux> cbx33, you are my hero;)
[11:19] <SiCk> aaaaaaah :D
[11:19] <SiCk> good old batch file saves the tedious movement of roaming profiles
[11:22] <SiCk> i have about 5 dameware and 2 vnc clients open... surely that cant be good for the network
[11:49] <cbx33> juliux: I was tung by that
[11:49] <olymk2> hi, i setup edubuntu during lunch time yesterday to trial at a primary school, it worked fine but i hit one annoyance
[11:49] <olymk2> and thats with firefox if you login to to more than one computer with the same user
[11:50] <cbx33> yes
[11:50] <cbx33> you can't
[11:50] <olymk2> it will not let you launch firefox
[11:50] <olymk2> oh no way around this ?
[11:50] <cbx33> olymk2: you need to use seperate users
[11:50] <cbx33> not at the moment
[11:50] <cbx33> the same with openoffice iirc
[11:50] <olymk2> yeah but we are talking primary school level
[11:50] <juliux> olymk2, that is a bug in gnome, so use an extra user for every thinclient
[11:50] <cbx33> juliux: ++
[11:50] <juliux> olymk2, the icons are also broken
[11:50] <cbx33> just have a machine name client and a password of the same name
[11:50] <SiCk> ididnt know that now... crap that's going to be annoying
[11:51] <olymk2> they can not remember there usernames and passwords
[11:51] <cbx33> are they needing to save data?
[11:51] <olymk2> so we wanted to set it so that all machines auto logged on with user student
[11:51] <SiCk> i'm gonna be needing firefox on about 40 pc's haha
[11:51] <cbx33> SiCk: you can run it on 40 machines
[11:51] <cbx33> just not with the same user
[11:51] <olymk2> yes they will save
[11:51] <cbx33> have a user for each machine
[11:52] <olymk2> but using same location
[11:52] <cbx33> olymk2: then that's fine
[11:52] <olymk2> teachers can all have seperate accounts
[11:52] <SiCk> true, i can just copy the user account settings
[11:52] <cbx33> do as said above
[11:52] <cbx33> I know it is annoying
[11:52] <cbx33> what about using epiphany...
[11:52] <cbx33> i don't know if that has the same bug
[11:52] <olymk2> well could use koffice and konquerer
[11:52] <cbx33> anyway the better way is to have seperate users
[11:52] <olymk2> or yeah epiphany
[11:53] <cbx33> then student control panel will work nicely too
[11:53] <olymk2> but i think thats based on firefox
[11:53] <cbx33> ahh
[11:53] <cbx33> yes
[11:53] <olymk2> yeah i know they will not like that at the school
[11:53] <SiCk> cbx33 where is the student control panel? is that an ltsp management console as such?
[11:53] <olymk2> its common most primary schools i goto have a single logon
[11:53] <olymk2> and no passwords
[11:53] <cbx33> SiCk: yes
[11:54] <SiCk> well olymk2 it doesnt matter if you have all these accounts, as you can have 1 for each pc
[11:54] <cbx33> SiCk: it's been much improved in the latest release in april
[11:54] <cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/
[11:54] <cbx33> see the screenshots ;)
[11:54] <SiCk> even if you set up 100 student accounts. such as student1 pass: student1
[11:54] <SiCk> oooh
[11:54] <SiCk> cbx33: nice!
[11:54] <cbx33> yeh
[11:54] <olymk2> yeah guess that will have todo
[11:54] <cbx33> tiled vnc screenshots too
[11:55] <SiCk> how do i get it on my release at the moment?
[11:55] <cbx33> olymk2: I hope it get's fixed too believe me
[11:55] <olymk2> i go out to primary schools and help fix there computer systems
[11:55] <cbx33> SiCk: what are you running?
[11:55] <olymk2> are there plans to fix it for feisty ?
[11:55] <SiCk> edubuntu dapper , latest
[11:55] <cbx33> SiCk: it is in there...but limited functionality
[11:55] <olymk2> or is it a firefox / openoffice specific
[11:55] <cbx33> SiCk: you wanna upgrade to edgy :p
[11:55] <SiCk> is there anything that takes its place? anything that can manage i'd like to have even
[11:55] <cbx33> I fixed up a lot in there
[11:56] <cbx33> but feisty will be awesome
[11:56] <SiCk> ahh, yeah ogra was saying i should up to edgy yesterday
[11:56] <cbx33> I don;t think there is a reason why we can't back port it....
[11:56] <cbx33> yeh edgy has a lot of functionality
[11:56] <cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=133
[11:58] <SiCk> so, cbx, is there an apt-get for the management console?
[11:58] <SiCk> sorry for being so slow. haha
[11:58] <cbx33> in dapper it's very low functionality
[11:58] <cbx33> apt-get install student-control-panel
[11:58] <cbx33> i think
[11:58] <SiCk> anything to manage to be honest.. haha
[11:59] <SiCk> its having none of that
[11:59] <SiCk> haha
[11:59] <cbx33> apt-get install studentcontrolpanel
[12:00] <SiCk> i dont know why im even installing this, my client isnt even working at the moment
[12:00] <cbx33> do you have universe enabled?
[12:00] <SiCk> no, i'll do that now..
[12:00] <cbx33> that's y
[12:02] <SiCk> cbx33, it escapes me, how do i get apt to re-index the sources.list file again?
[12:02] <olymk2> hum come to think of it would running firefox with -p default work ?
[12:03] <cbx33> apt-get update
[12:03] <olymk2> i seem to remember doing something like that with ssh to get more than one instance
[12:03] <cbx33> no idea
[12:11] <SiCk> cbx33, any idea why after doing the kiosk setup here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins , i'm not able to boot my client?
[12:14] <SiCk> i didnt do the plugin creation, just implemented it for the client by default
[12:16] <SiCk> and well... it does boot, but x has problems
[12:20] <cbx33> I'm not sure
[12:20] <cbx33> I've never done that
[12:20] <cbx33> try asking in #ltsp
[02:10] <SiCk> ogra ? :)
[02:19] <SiCk> trying to get away from me eh
[02:19] <SiCk> bwahaha
[02:19] <SiCk> :(
[02:19] <SiCk> haha
[03:42] <bddebian> Heya
[03:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> hey :)
[03:43] <bddebian> Hi Kamping_Kaiser
[03:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> hows it going mate?
[03:46] <nixternal> boo
[03:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi nixternal :)
[03:46] <nixternal> hiya Kamping_Kaiser!
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> gday :)
[03:52] <cbx33> hey everyone
[03:53] <nixternal> hiya cbx33!
[03:53] <nixternal> argh, I am to tired for the uni this morning
[03:56] <nixternal> oh no, my life is over! YouTube is dead!
[03:57] <juliux> nixternal, youtube is working here
[03:59] <nixternal> not here. I can't get my dose of funny videos before class
[03:59] <nixternal> I am going to cry :)
[03:59] <nixternal> oh wait, I already am
[04:00] <nixternal> oh juliux btw, email nixternal@ubuntu.com so I can give you my address and hook up the paypal info as well. I am getting ready to goto school, so this way hopefully I won't forget once again :)
[04:00] <nixternal> gotta take the pup out..brb
[04:01] <juliux> nixternal, i will email you the paypal account name
[04:04] <froud> willvdl__:  ping
[04:05] <juliux> nixternal, check your mailbox
[04:07] <sbalneav> Morning all
[04:07] <cbx33> sbalneav: HEY
[04:10] <sbalneav> Hey hey
[04:11] <RichEd> sbalneav: speak of the devil :)
[04:12] <RichEd> hey cbx33
[04:12] <SiCk> ping
[04:12] <sbalneav> Whaaaaasuuuuuup?
[04:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> me
[04:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> gnight all!
[04:36] <hmd64> hi
[04:44] <RichEd> hey SimonAnibal ... been missing you on my travels !
[04:44] <SimonAnibal> RichEd: Hey Richard, how're things going?
[04:45] <RichEd> well thanks ... how's 2007 for you
[04:45] <SimonAnibal> So far, not too bad
[04:48] <hmd64> since edubuntu use kedu packages and most educational appz are for kde
[04:48] <hmd64> why not using kde instead of gnome
[04:48] <hmd64> ?
[04:49] <ogra> because of the backing of a big desktop development team for integration  ... kdeedu is only a very small portion
[04:49] <ogra> the ubuntu distro team has 18 people working in it ... one does KDE and one does edubuntu
[04:50] <ogra> the rest does gnome/kernel/X etc ...
[04:50] <ogra> it's a matter of manpower
[04:51] <ogra> its no problem to install kubuntu-desktop though ...
[04:51] <ogra> (on top of edubuntu)
[04:52] <ogra> even though you might miss integration since KDE is behind on that and relies on community contributions
[04:54] <hmd64> I think that KDE is easier
[04:55] <ogra> i dont, but thats a totally opersonal preference and had nothing to do with the decision to take gnome
[04:55] <hmd64> many other 'edu distros' are using it
[04:55] <ogra> we dont ...
[04:55] <ogra> you are free to make kedubuntu ... we'd appreciate that :)
[05:01] <SiCk> ogra can i steal your knowledgeable brain for a wee bit?
[05:01] <SiCk> i tried all day on my own and go nowhere! haha
[05:01] <hmd64> well, if I made it, I think it won't be official and won't get support from ubuntu
[05:02] <ogra> xubuntu isnt official and doesnt get suport from ubuntu, but still has a huge userbase
[05:02] <ogra> SiCk, seems i dont get to work today anyway, shoot
[05:03] <SiCk> dont worry about it if you're busy mate, i can steal you another time :P
[05:10] <hmd64> I don't have enough diskspace to do a remastering
[05:11] <hmd64> is it possible to add stuff directly to squashfs live cd?
[05:14] <ogra> there are remastering docs on the wiki somewhere ...
[05:27] <paolob-parroquia> ogra, did you receive my mail message with the help request?
[05:28] <ogra> paolob-parroquia, which one ? i usually point people to edubuntu-users since i travel a lot and am offline more than online recently
[05:28] <ogra> ah, i see it
[05:29] <paolob-parroquia> I'm wondering if it could depend on an upgrade of some package...
[05:30] <ogra> try the fix at the bottom of the page: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/NFS
[05:33] (ogra/#edubuntu) nolock and ro are set anyway
[05:34] (ogra/#edubuntu) just append them with a space
[05:34] (ogra/#edubuntu) NFSOPTS="-o wsize=2048,rsize=2048"
[05:34] <ogra> you can play with the values ...
[05:35] <ogra> i.e. make it 1024 or 4096
[05:35] <paolob-parroquia> should I restart some service or not?
[05:35] <ogra> nope
[05:35] <ogra> just reboot a client
[05:37] <paolob-parroquia> nothing new with 2048...
[05:37] <paolob-parroquia> nor with 1024...
[05:39] <paolob-parroquia> nor with 4096
[05:42] <paolob-parroquia> ogra, I restarted nfs-common and nfs-kernel-server, and I could have the three nearest clients boot up...
[07:58] <highvoltage> 4\\
[08:07] <juliux> hi highvoltage
[08:31] <torrr> I want to choose a distro for "TerminalServer" with linux,I am wondering if ubuntu-desktop would be a good choice
[08:32] <torrr> I am know how to make Gentoo be a terminalServer, since I tested it in VMWare, I've just been told by CrossOver Office, that they support ubuntu better
[08:32] <torrr> and I have been told that Gentoo is good for servers, and now I wonder if ubuntu-desktop would perform well in a multi-user environment, compared to other distro's
[08:35] <LaserJock> torrr: well, Edubuntu has LTSP (Linux Terminal Server Project) built in
[08:46] <willvdl> torrr, Ubuntu with LTSP or Edubuntu is probably exactly what you are looking for.
[08:52] <torrr> what is LTSP?
[08:52] <torrr> I'll google a bit
[08:52] <LaserJock> www.ltsp.org I believe
[08:52] <torrr> btw how is it performace wise? (responsive for users?)
[08:53] <LaserJock> it depends on what kind of hardware you have for the server and how fast the network is
[08:55] <willvdl> torrr, I know of people that use it in networks of up to 40 or 50 clients
[08:55] <willvdl> It also depends on what you do with your network
[08:57] <torrr> I have a dual-core P4 +2GB RAM. I ahve about 15 users
[08:57] <torrr> mainly web browsing
[08:58] <torrr> I see the client is the thin-client that boots by network
[08:58] <torrr> is there an installable client for windows/MacOS?
[08:58] <LaserJock> it doesn't use an OS
[08:59] <LaserJock> the thin client actually doesn't need a hard drive
[09:00] <torrr> Well, the PCs that will use it needs a client  app, because they already have Windows/Mac and software installed on them
[09:00] <LaserJock> ok, so you just need single apps going across
[09:01] <LaserJock> with LTSP they could actually run Ubuntu from the client
[09:01] <torrr> Xserver
[09:02] <torrr> I have used Xservers in my testings. Only problem is session persistance
[09:05] <LaserJock> torrr: so you are looking for an X server for Windows/OS X?
[09:05] <LaserJock> for OS X it's not really a big deal since it's unix based
[09:05] <LaserJock> you can do X forwarding
[09:06] <torrr> I have found Xming, which is good as long as the pc don't go to standby
[09:06] <LaserJock> well, the problem is that when you go on stabdby or hibernate you lose your network connection
[09:06] <torrr> yes
[09:06] <LaserJock> virtually any program would have a problem with that I would think
[09:06] <LaserJock> it has to reconnect
[09:07] <LaserJock> VNC would get you a desktop that you could reconnect too
[09:07] <torrr> windows terminal server automatically reconnect
[09:07] <torrr> VNC use too much CPU, I don't think it would support 15 users
[09:08] <torrr> I have maxed out a 2.4Ghz celeron with just 2 users on XP with tightVNC
[09:08] <LaserJock> hmm
[09:08] <torrr> well, they were watching videos though...
[09:09] <torrr> (security camera)
[09:09] <LaserJock> ouch, yeah that's a CPU sucker
[09:09] <torrr> yea, it needs to redo all the screen
[09:10] <LaserJock> well, I'm not really sure if it's a server or client thing that you would need
[09:10] <LaserJock> I honestly don't know
[09:10] <LaserJock> I generally don't worry about persistence
[09:10] <LaserJock> and all I've done is just me connecting to a server, not 15
[09:11] <torrr> I am open for segestions, but currently I am wondering if my server OS should be gentoo, or ubuntu or something else
[09:12] <LaserJock> well, I pretty certain that if Gentoo can do it Ubuntu probably can too
[09:12] <LaserJock> it's a matter of finding the right app
[09:13] <LaserJock> sorry I'm not more helpful :/
[09:13] <torrr> :)
[09:14] <n2diy> Take a look at Freenx.
[09:14] <torrr> it's ok, I think not many people are into it, its amasing that Xservers these days don't reconnect
[09:17] <willvdl> torrr, the choice between Gentoo and Ubuntu (or any of the others) is going to be based on how you prefer to manage your packages
[09:42] <torrr> ah
[09:43] <torrr> willvdl: and can you tell me a bit how it is in ubuntu?
[09:44] <torrr> willvdl: in gentoo that I have just tried, everything is 'emerge packageName' and then it downloads it and compiles it which can take hours for some app e.g firefox (what a nightmare)
[09:45] <torrr> willvdl: but on the up side there is always the source there, and the people on the gentoo IRC seem really knowledgeable and help quickly
[09:46] <willvdl> torrr, well that is the big difference
[09:46] <willvdl> some people prefer the idea of building packages from source on their systems
[09:47] <willvdl> if you have the time for it. It is more complex and time consuming
[09:47] <willvdl> the .deb system is pretty powerful though. It handles dependancies really well
[09:52] <LaserJock> torrr: I used Gentoo for over 2 years before I came to Ubuntu
[09:53] <LaserJock> torrr: they are both good distros, but if you want to get apps fast definately go with Ubuntu ;-)
[09:54] <willvdl> yeah, it's a personal preference.
[09:54] <willvdl> on the package side at least
[09:55] <torrr> LaserJock: willvdl: I definitly was upset when it took so much time to install an app in gentoo... But on the other hand I know to program so I can read source, and I think that if it will be readyly available in a way that I can tweek it, then maybe I will, and that is an other thing. Though I didn't understand yet if Gentoo will let me touch the sources and compile my own modified version...
[09:55] <LaserJock> you can tweak in Gentoo relatively easily
[09:56] <LaserJock> but Ubuntu has source packages for all it's apps too
[09:56] <willvdl> true
[09:56] <LaserJock> I find it nicer because I can get up and running really fast
[09:56] <LaserJock> and it's usable
[09:56] <LaserJock> *then* tweak stuff
[09:56] <LaserJock> if needed
[09:57] <LaserJock> with gentoo if you need to tweak some little program but you have a KDE update it takes forever
[09:57] <willvdl> torrr, plus, if you're running edubuntu, say, for the terminal environment then it could make sense to use ubuntu servers on other machines on the network. It just makes managing the whole setup a bit easier
[09:58] <torrr> I also once had mandrake, and it didn't even let me to compile a new kernel that I have downloaded, I had to wait for that kernel to be in the mandrake own site or something like that
[10:00] <torrr> willvdl: from what I undersod these terminal are real terminals, not client apps that work under an OS, the only way I could use these is by a VMWare or something like this
[10:01] <willvdl> torrr, I'm not sure if I understand you correctly :)
[10:01] <willvdl> are you asking about how the LTSP environment works?
[10:01] <torrr> yes LTSP
[10:02] <torrr> from what I have understood
[10:02] <torrr> the workstations boot from network
[10:02] <torrr> or something else
[10:02] <willvdl> well, the terminals run off the server. They (can) boot over the network
[10:02] <torrr> but they do boot
[10:02] <willvdl> they need to run a kernel image yes
[10:03] <torrr> and I didn't see client for windows
[10:03] <torrr> in the download section
[10:03] <LaserJock> there is no "client"
[10:03] <macreds> Has anyone installed the edubuntu workstation on an  G3 iMac? Mine is very slow.
[10:03] <LaserJock> torrr: nothing is really run on the client machine (it doesn't even need a hard drive)
[10:04] <LaserJock> torrr: everything is run on the server, just forwarded to the client machine over the network
[10:04] <willvdl> torrr, the terminal is "dumb". All processing happens on the server.
[10:04] <torrr> so If I want to use these workstations under a windows machine I can't
[10:04] <LaserJock> it has nothing to do with Windows
[10:04] <willvdl> macreds, I haven't but what version are you running?
[10:04] <LaserJock> nothing is run in windows
[10:04] <macreds> edubuntu 6.10
[10:05] <willvdl> macreds, you could try running an xfce desktop instead if things are too slow
[10:05] <willvdl> I've run dapper edubuntu workstation on a low end P3 with no problems in speed
[10:06] <macreds> is xfce a selection I can choose from the install disk
[10:07] <LaserJock> macreds: no but you can install it from Edubuntu
[10:07] <willvdl> macreds, I think there is a spec in the loop for that in the future
[10:07] <LaserJock> you could install the xubuntu-desktop package
[10:07] <willvdl> torrr, one way to set things up is to have a machine with a hard-drive with windows on it. You could boot into windows or you could boot off the network.
[10:08] <macreds> do you mean install from the edubuntu disk I burned from their image I downloaded or is there a separate download for that?
[10:09] <LaserJock> macreds: does it have an internet connection?
[10:09] <macreds> yes
[10:09] <torrr> take a look at xming screenshot http://www.straightrunning.com/Xming/Captures/Xming.png
[10:09] <LaserJock> It'll grab it from the net
[10:12] <torrr> how does this workstation handle it if someone pulls out its network cable? (crash/freese and resume once cable is reinserted?)
[10:13] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure how it behaves exactly
[10:13] <torrr> (where resume means continuing from the same place you were when the crash happend)
[10:13] <willvdl> LaserJock, well, it's like removing the hard-drive isn't it?
[10:13] <LaserJock> I don't think it likes it's cable being unplugged
[10:13] <torrr> (replace crash with network gone)
[10:13] <LaserJock> willvdl: but different
[10:14] <LaserJock> torrr: the only way I can see to do it is via something like VNC
[10:14] <willvdl> I think it will stay alive as long as it is trying to "retry" the network
[10:14] <torrr> There is NX too
[10:14] <sbalneav> If it's for a "short time" i.e. below the tcp timeout threshold, it will "come back", if it's for longer (i.e. 15-20 seconds or more), it'll usually hang up.
[10:14] <LaserJock> same thing basically
[10:14] <sbalneav> There is no session management in X
[10:15] <willvdl> sbalneav, is that something that could appear in the near future?
[10:15] <torrr> sbalneav: and in LTSP is there no session management either?
[10:15] <sbalneav> I don't think the xorg folks have any immediate plans for it.
[10:16] <sbalneav> No, we just run xorg.  You'd need some kind of local proxy.
[10:16] <LaserJock> torrr: but you want to still run Windows/OSX though, right? you just want certain apps from Linux
[10:16] <torrr> sbalneav: you mean that the workstation machine runs its own Xserver?
[10:17] <sbalneav> Correct.
[10:17] <sbalneav> The workstation runs it's own X server, and remote programs simply communicate via the X protocol over the wire.
[10:18] <torrr> sbalneav: ah then the same problems that I have with Xming will happen.  Just that one can use old hardware
[10:19] <sbalneav> Fundamentally, X doesn't support sessions.
[10:19] <torrr> sbalneav: I have found it hard to believe, but apparently it is still true.
[10:19] <macreds> LaserJock: I was interested in edubuntu because I'm a computer teacher at an elementary school I assume Xubuntu wouldn't have all the educational tools.
[10:20] <sbalneav> Quite frankly, the places where sessions have been required haven't been the places where X has been traditionally deployed.
[10:20] <LaserJock> macreds: well, you can install edubuntu then install the xubuntu desktop on top of it
[10:21] <sbalneav> So, there hasn't been much call for sessions within X until the last 2 years or so.
[10:21] <LaserJock> it would involve more disk space because you would also have the ubuntu desktop
[10:21] <sbalneav> You have to remember that X is a 25 year old protocol :)
[10:22] <macreds> Laserjock: would that slow things down more? I'm not sure how that would work.
[10:22] <LaserJock> no
[10:23] <LaserJock> do you have Edubuntu already installed?
[10:23] <torrr> sbalneav: what are you talking about?(rehtorical) I have been learning in a unix environment in the university and all the time apps were disapearing misteriously due to network gliches... I have been testiing the W2K3 trial now for half a year, and I enjoy very much to leave a session open and come to it after a few days and find it right where I have left it. I am sure this would be very useful in an X environment too.
[10:23] <macreds> yes it is already installed
[10:23] <LaserJock> macreds: then you'll just be install some addition software
[10:24] <LaserJock> macreds: you'll have both the desktop environment from Ubuntu (Gnome) and from Xubuntu (Xfce4)
[10:24] <macreds> so xubuntu on top of that should clean some things up and improve speed?
[10:24] <LaserJock> macreds: what people actually run is what will determine the speed
[10:24] <LaserJock> well, it won't clean things up
[10:25] <LaserJock> it's just "lighter" software
[10:25] <LaserJock> so it should run better on your machine
[10:25] <macreds> I see, I'll try it. thanks for input
[10:25] <LaserJock> np
[10:25] <sbalneav> torrr: Traditionally, X has been the providence of high-end fixed graphical networks.  With the increased popularity of Linux in the last 3 years or so, it's now begginning to find itself in places where Sessions would be useful.  But traditionally, if you were a CAD designer with a 15,000 workstation, you weren't really worried about sessions.
[10:26] <torrr> sbalneav: wow 15,000 workstation...
[10:27] <sbalneav> The source code for xorg's out there, it will just take someone who wants/is interested in sessions enough to code it up.
[10:27] <willvdl> macreds, xfce requires less "Resources" as such. It's not as graphically intensive as gnome
[10:27] <torrr> sbalneav: well I kind of belive it, since back then in the U they had 50 stations on something less powerful than pentium 1
[10:28] <willvdl> I think sbalneav meant $15000?
[10:28] <sbalneav> Other solutions, like Freenx, or vnc are "smart proxys" for the X server, that manage the session on top of X
[10:28] <sbalneav> willvdl, yes, sorry forgot the $
[10:29] <willvdl> 15000 workstation network is not something I want to manage :)
[10:29] <torrr> I have tried NX, but it was less responsive then local Xserver
[10:29] <sbalneav> Ford motor company manages about 45,000 worldwide :)
[10:29] <torrr> on the other hand
[10:30] <sbalneav> Sure, NX will be less responsive, because it's having to proxy the entire X protocol.
[10:30] <willvdl> sbalneav, was thinking more along the lines of 15000 terminals on a server :P
[10:30] <torrr> I have a really tight test setup now where the linux runs on VMWare, and I have only 512MB RAM here
[10:32] <sbalneav> We talked to Keith Packard at the last Ubuntu devel conference about persistent sessions.  He seemed to think it "wouldn't be that hard", but didn't actually offer to do the work either :)
[10:33] <torrr> sbalneav: I have been naging people to just try to understand if it exist or not and why, and from what I have gathered Xlib don't know to reconnect
[10:33] <torrr> sbalneav: and the xclient apps don't know the state of the server
[10:34] <sbalneav> Correct.
[10:34] <torrr> sbalneav: so I think for reconnecting after a network glich a 2 network relays at the host and client would help
[10:36] <torrr> sbalneav: since the xserver and xclient will not loose connection, and they will reconnect themselves, and not report problems to the xclient and the xserver so they will think that everything is fine
[10:36] <torrr> they=relays
[10:36] <torrr> in they will recnnect
[10:37] <torrr> I use to many they
[10:37] <torrr> rephrase
[10:37] <Crazytales2> !frostwire
[10:37] <ubotu> frostwire is a totally open source version of Limewire.  For installation help, please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrostWire
[10:38] <torrr> sbalneav: since the xserver and xclient will not loose connection, and the relays will reconnect themselves, and not report problems to the xclient and the xserver so the xclient and xserver will think that everything is fine
[10:38] <sbalneav> Sure.  Now you just need to code it up.
[10:39] <willvdl> :)
[10:40] <torrr> sbalneav: I might just do it
[10:40] <sbalneav> Keep us posted!
[10:40] <torrr> sbalneav: but still it will not help to open the session from an other workstation
[10:41] <torrr> sbalneav: but there is something called xmove which I have found, and this can move windows from one workstation to the other
[10:42] <torrr> sbalneav: only thing is that before it does, it tries to contact the real xserver, and if it is not there then xmove hangs
[10:42] <torrr> not there or not responding
[10:43] <willvdl> torrr, what exactly are you trying to do? I'm trying to figure out what sort of network you want to set up?
[10:43] <torrr> but there is a source for that and I have looked into it and found where it calls the Xserver, maybe I can modify it to forget about the old xserver if it died
[10:44] <torrr> willvdl: I want the users at the business to use the server for browsing instead of their own computers, since it will be more safe
[10:45] <willvdl> how so? Will a secure proxy not be sufficient?
[10:45] <torrr> willvdl: basicaly windows TS can do it, but their trial server network get disconnected all the time, and they need to reboot it since I am not there all the time
[10:46] <torrr> willvdl: I don't know
[10:46] <torrr> willvdl: do you know some secure proxy?
[10:46] <willvdl> Is security the only consideration?
[10:46] <torrr> yes
[10:48] <willvdl> hmmm, I'm not really a security expert (or a sys-admin for that matter) but I imagine with a decent firewall, ssh connections, strong authentication and proper logging...
[10:48] <willvdl> of course, a real bonus would be to move the whole business over to linux desktops :)
[10:49] <torrr> yes that is something I am looking forward too. I love to hate MS
[10:49] <torrr> I am gona cry, but my laptop has XP, and I feel like my hands are tied
[10:51] <torrr> and I don't replace it because of drivers and a special app that parks the disk when it feels violent movement
[10:51] <torrr> but now when I saw Xming, maybe I will use coLinox
[10:52] <torrr> I'll probalby have to buy more RAM and disk though
[10:53] <torrr> I go to eat
[10:53] <torrr> bye for now willvdl
[10:53] <sbalneav> Hmmm, Wonder what I should cook tonight.
[10:53] <willvdl> ciao
[10:53] <sbalneav> Chicken Cordon Bleu maybe.
[10:54] <willvdl> tofu burger?
[10:54] <torrr> I have bought cow ribs yesterday
[10:54] <willvdl> chickpea salad?
[10:54] <torrr> I think I am going to roast it now
[10:54] <sbalneav> Chickpea salad's nice.
[10:54] <torrr> ciao
[10:54] <willvdl> had a chickpea burger the other day. actually very very nice
[10:55] <sbalneav> I make Hummous fairly regularly.
[10:55] <willvdl> spicy hummous?
[10:55] <willvdl> with lots of garlic...
[10:55] <sbalneav> LOTS of garlic
[10:56] <willvdl> is there any other kind of Hummous?
[10:56] <sbalneav> Garlic is to cooking what insanity is to art.
[10:56] <sbalneav> Just adds that special "something"
[10:56] <willvdl> You cannot trust anybody who does not eat garlic, drink coffee or spill red wine
[11:01] <sbalneav> I'm eminently trustable, then.
[11:05] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:05] <LaserJock> I love garlic, don't drink coffee or wine
[11:06] <LaserJock> I'm a loser :/
[11:09] <sbalneav> Well, ruddy well get busy then.
[11:09] <sbalneav> Make a stop by Starbucks and the Liquor Commission on the way home.
[11:10] <sbalneav> Look for my Family's lable.
[11:10] <sbalneav> Balnaves of Coonawara
[11:11] <sbalneav> http://www.balnaves.com.au/
[11:11] <LaserJock> hah
[11:12] <sbalneav> They're related to me, distantly.
[11:12] <ajmitch> LaserJock: oh I'll have to come & visit you
[11:12] <sbalneav> Knowing you, though, you'll probably stop at Subway on the way home.
[11:12] <sbalneav> OH SNAP!
[11:13] <sbalneav> :)
[11:13] <ajmitch> sbalneav: how could you suggest starbucks?
[11:13] <willvdl> LaserJock, not a loser, just can't be trusted :)
[11:13] <sbalneav> Only coffee shop you guys have down in the states anymore, isn't it? :)
[11:13] <ajmitch> though there is a starbucks within about 3 minutes walk from here
[11:14] <sbalneav> Although, I hear the Canadian infiltration of the states continues apace, and we've managed to export a few Tim Horton's down there :)
[11:15] <willvdl> We have Vida e Cafe. Brazilian coffee chain store wholly owned by non-brazilians, run by Nigerians and drunk mainly by me
[11:15] <sbalneav> LaserJock: So, you're not going to be able to make it to Spain? Sangria's a great way to drink red wine! :)
[11:15] <willvdl> and to learn how to spill it
[11:16] <sbalneav> After your third pitcher of Sangria, spilling it won't be too difficult :)
[11:16] <sbalneav> He's ignoring me now :)
[11:17] <willvdl> sblneav, you in Canada?
[11:17] <sbalneav> Yeppers.
[11:17] <sbalneav> Winnipeg, Manitoba.
[11:18] <sbalneav> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=83+alburg+drive+winnipeg&ie=UTF8&z=15&om=1&iwloc=addr
[11:18] <willvdl> Australia Australia Australia is a long way away
[11:18] <sbalneav> That's where to send the Missile :)
[11:19] <willvdl> Can someone familiar with Launchpad have a proof-read of https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Launchpad/ProjectsAndProducts for me?
[11:19] <willvdl> sbalneav, the Garlic Bomb
[11:19] <willvdl> Tomorrow night is the Garlic Chicken spectacle!
[11:20] <willvdl> Take one chicken, place in cast-iron pot with bit of white wine, 'erbs and water
[11:20] <willvdl> then add seven to ten heads of garlic and roast...
[11:20] <willvdl> throw away the chicken (it's only for flavouring) and squeeze the garlic like toothpaste onto bread.
[11:21] <sbalneav> Well, time for home.
[11:21] <sbalneav> I'll be on tonight.
[11:21] <sbalneav> ciao, all
[12:09] <drx0drx0> Does anyone know how to fix "Error occurred while installing GRUB" during install?