[12:16] <elmo> SteveA: possible, but I got mail from it, a couple of hours ago
[12:17] <SteveA> me too, but not 10 mins ago
[12:17] <SteveA> it's normally very responsivle
[12:17] <elmo> next note to self, don't do ls in the wiki.u.c user dir
[12:18] <elmo> I'm probably too tired to be doing this too :/
[12:18] <elmo> SteveA: I'll check in a sec
[12:18] <mdke> heh
[12:21] <elmo> mdke: done
[12:21] <mdke> fanks
[12:22] <SteveA> elmo: it's arrived
[12:23] <elmo> SteveA: ok, just confirmed esperanza is swamped again - we have an upgrade scheduled to help with that, but I suspect eventually I'm going to have to do something more drastic like move internal lists to a new server (launchpad-error-reports is particuarly hurtful with mailman)
[12:24] <jamesh> one day someone will write a better mailman
[12:25] <elmo> SteveA: btw, we should talk tomorrow quickly about beta
[12:37] <SteveA> elmo: we'll be toning down launchpad-error-reports pretty soon
[12:37] <elmo> SteveA: excellent
[12:37] <SteveA> and replacing a lot of the traffic there by either nothing, or librarian files, or oops reports
[12:37] <SteveA> it will remain just for when scripts totally fail
[12:37] <SteveA> what do we need to talk about concerning beta?
[12:38] <SteveA> it seems a bit slow to me
[12:38] <SteveA> even though stu keeps saying it isn't
[12:40] <LarstiQ> SteveA: I'll ping you tomorrow about the NlSprint
[12:40] <SteveA> ok
[12:42] <elmo> SteveA: that's what we need to talk about - the speed ;-)
[12:43] <SteveA> oh
[12:43] <SteveA> so, I don't know if the new ui is intrinsically slower
[12:43] <SteveA> or if it's time spent loading graphics and JS etc.
[12:43] <SteveA> or it's a slow app server machine
[12:43] <SteveA> I can look into it using firebug
[12:43] <elmo> well, I'm fairly sure having it on asuka isn't helping
[12:43] <SteveA> ok
[12:44] <elmo> it's an app server machine a) doing other things and b) doubling as (many) database servers
[12:44] <SteveA> ok
[12:44] <SteveA> so, let's not run it there
[12:44] <elmo> so I'd like to move it to carbon
[12:44] <SteveA> +1 from me
[12:44] <SteveA> provided we don't need to randomly take carbon down
[12:44] <elmo> well when I say "I", I mean, I'd like the DBAs too ;-) but wanted to check with you first
[12:44] <elmo> we'd only take carbon down if jubany was down
[12:44] <elmo> which I think is something we can live with
[12:44] <elmo> (and by down, I mean down with smoking hardware)
[12:44] <SteveA> I've been kind of asking stu to move it to something like carbon for a couple of weeks
[12:45] <SteveA> so, I'm very much in favour
[12:45] <elmo> ok, cool, thanks
[12:45] <SteveA> and it should happen as soon as possible
[12:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81380 in malone "Encrypted file extensions inconsistent" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81380
[12:46] <dfarning> Hey guys I am interested in have all of the bugs for a lauchpad team sent to our -bugs mailing list
[12:48] <dfarning> the team is mozillateam and the mailing list is ubuntu-mozillateam-bugs
[12:48] <mdke> can't you just set the bug contact as the mailing list address?
[12:49] <dfarning> I'll go check
[12:49] <mdke> actually I guess it's better to make a user for the mailing list and add it to the team
[12:50] <mdke> or subscribe it to the package, or whatever
[12:53] <dfarning> That makes sense.  I'll create a mozillateam-list user who is whos mail is sent to the list.  Thanks
[12:53] <LarstiQ> sorta like how Ubugtu works
[12:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81384 in launchpad-bazaar "Report status (e.g. "initial upload in progress") of pushes to hosted branches in web UI for a branch" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81384
[01:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81391 in launchpad "Order of milestone list when editing bug details should be chronological instead of alphabetic" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81391
[02:21] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81394 in launchpad-support-tracker "Passing a list to the search tickets view crashes" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81394
[02:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81395 in Ubuntu "boot process interrupted by "could not kill pid 1984"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81395
[09:08] <carlos> morning
[09:13] <Odd_Bloke> Is there anyone around who could talk me step-by-step through the process of pushing a repository to my userspace?
[09:14] <Odd_Bloke> Or, I suppose, point me to a webpage doing that.
[10:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81419 in launchpad-support-tracker "translate mail and web messages for l10n support" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81419
[10:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #53292 in launchpad-support-tracker "Create/follow support requests through a mailing list" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53292
[10:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81433 in update-manager "Error to install package vim in upgrade to Fiety using update-manager" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81433
[12:01] <cprov> good morning !
[12:03] <matthewrevell> cprov: morning :)
[12:06] <SteveA> good morningn!
[12:07] <Bhaskar> gotten morgan
[12:53] <SteveA> meeting in 6 mins
[12:53] <kiko-fud> 7
[12:58] <danilos> kiko's script has gotten smart
[12:59] <SteveA> except it thinks 6.4 is 7
[01:00] <SteveA> so
[01:00] <LaserJock> kiko-fud: hello ;-)
[01:00] <SteveA> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting.
[01:00] <SteveA> who is here today?
[01:00] <salgado> me
[01:00] <flacoste> me
[01:00] <SteveA> jamesh sends apologies.  I have his three sentences.
[01:00] <mpt> me
[01:00] <carlos> me
[01:00] <matthewrevell> me
[01:00] <SteveA>   * BjornT: Will be at the distro sprint in Oslo.
[01:00] <SteveA>   * Matsubara: Vacation.
[01:00] <SteveA>   * Andrew: at sprint
[01:00] <danilos> me
[01:01] <cprov> me
[01:01] <static> me
[01:02] <SteveA> 
[01:02] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Bug report (mpt)
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[01:02] <SteveA> ----
[01:02] <kiko-fud> me
[01:02] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (MatthewRevell)
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Everyone to comment "fixed in RF ''revision''" when marking a bug as Fix Committed (mpt)
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Progress of UI week (Kiko/Steve)
[01:02] <SteveA>  * MOTU bugs (Kiko)
[01:02] <SteveA>  * (other items)
[01:02] <SteveA> ----
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[01:02] <SteveA> 
[01:02] <SteveA> Next meeting, same time next week
[01:02] <SteveA> Activity reports.
[01:02] <SteveA> I'm still slack...
[01:02] <SteveA> from last week:
[01:02] <SteveA>  * kiko: "I didn't do mine this week"
[01:03] <SteveA>  * salgado
[01:03] <SteveA>  * cprov: "I suck, 1 week behind"
[01:03] <SteveA> kiko-fud: has caught up this week
[01:03] <kiko> I didn't do mine this week either, but I could
[01:03] <kiko> no I haven't
[01:03] <mpt> up to date
[01:03] <flacoste> up to date
[01:03] <matthewrevell> up to date
[01:03] <danilos> up to date
[01:03] <carlos> up td date
[01:03] <static> I suck, a few days behind
[01:03] <salgado> I sent a summary for last week and this week I'm almost up to date (missing yesterday's only)
[01:03] <cprov> not I haven't caught up properly, still suck
[01:04] <SteveA> as usual, sprinters are excused of sending activity reports
[01:04] <SteveA> although it's still nice if they want to
[01:05] <SteveA> is that everyone?
[01:05] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[01:06] <SteveA> apparently, there were none
[01:06] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:06] <SteveA> matsubara is away.  is someone doing this for matsubara?
[01:06] <kiko> so I'm a bit embarassed but I didn't get anything from matsubara, even though he said he would do it yesterday
[01:06] <kiko> did he contact anyone else?
[01:06] <kiko> guess not
[01:07] <SteveA> ok.  kiko would you arrange something and mail the list later?
[01:07] <kiko> yes. the OOPSes are down from last week fwiw
[01:07] <SteveA> everyone, please look out for an oops-realted email from kiko, and respond to any items specifically for you on there
[01:07] <SteveA>  * Bug report (mpt)
[01:08] <SteveA> thanks kiko
[01:08] <mpt> There are 14 known Critical bugs in Launchpad without released fixes. The oldest six are:
[01:08] <mpt>  * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, In Progress, kiko
[01:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/30602 - Assigned to Christian Reis (kiko)
[01:08] <ddaa> up to date
[01:08] <mpt> kiko, any progress this week?
[01:08] <mpt>  * Bug #46982 (Need to support KDE like plural forms), Critical, Confirmed, danilo
[01:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like plural forms" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46982 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[01:08] <mpt> danilo, how's this doing?
[01:08] <mpt>  * Bug #49989 (branch puller reports failure for new hosted branches), Critical, Confirmed, spiv
[01:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49989 in launchpad-bazaar "branch puller reports failure for new hosted branches" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/49989 - Assigned to Andrew Bennetts (spiv)
[01:09] <danilos> mpt: no work on ff, so no work on this one this week
[01:09] <mpt> spiv, this is newly Critical. Will it soon become newly fixed? :-)
[01:09] <mpt> danilos, "ff"?
[01:09] <danilos> mpt: firefox import/export support
[01:09] <mpt> oh, you were working on ff instead
[01:09] <mpt> ok
[01:09] <mpt>  * Bug #68295 (private), Critical, Confirmed, salgado
[01:09] <Ubugtu> Bug 68295 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/68295 is private
[01:10] <mpt> salgado, will you have time for that in the coming week?
[01:10] <SteveA> ddaa: please get to this meeting on time in future
[01:10] <ddaa> sorry
[01:10] <mpt> kiko? spiv?
[01:10] <SteveA> ddaa: can you comment on bug 44989?
[01:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44989 in cupsys "Doesn't print (large) PDF files" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/44989
[01:10] <salgado> mpt, it's fixed already. I'm going to land the fix today
[01:10] <SteveA> um
[01:10] <carlos> mpt: bug #46982 is blocked on Firefox, that's why it's not yet started
[01:10] <SteveA> ddaa: can you comment on bug 49989?
[01:10] <mpt>  * Bug #74839 (private), Critical, Confirmed, mpt
[01:10] <mpt> I have not made any progress on this this week. Action for me for next week: Either fix it, or talk with SteveA about how else it can be fixed.
[01:10] <Ubugtu> Bug 74839 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/74839 is private
[01:11] <ddaa> SteveA: hu? "Dropdown menus in 1.0 UI do not drop down" ?
[01:11] <SteveA> carlos: what does "blocked on Firefox" mean exactly?
[01:11] <kiko> mpt, I have a branch now and am looking at this
[01:11] <kiko> SteveA, on the firefox work.
[01:11] <ddaa> hu no...
[01:11] <mpt> kiko, that's great news
[01:11] <mpt>  * Bug #75333 (Restrict pockets that upload translations into Rosetta), Critical, Fix Committed, carlos
[01:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75333 in rosetta "Restrict pockets that upload translations into Rosetta" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75333 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:11] <carlos> SteveA: we need infrastructure added by the Firefox branch
[01:11] <mpt> carlos, did this deserve a cherry-pick?
[01:11] <SteveA> there will be a full roll out early next week
[01:12] <danilos> SteveA: it's a couple hours fix with my ff-branch
[01:12] <mpt> ah, spiv isn't here
[01:12] <carlos> mpt: yes, and I think I did it already (the request)
[01:12] <ddaa> no such bug as 49989
[01:12] <SteveA> so, write email to stuart cc list to organise getting important stuff rolled out
[01:12] <SteveA> be organised about this
[01:12] <mpt> carlos, ok, thanks.
[01:12] <SteveA> so it will be smooth
[01:12] <mpt> That's all, thanks SteveA 
[01:12] <danilos> SteveA: when is stub back from vacation
[01:12] <ddaa> sorry outdate bookmark
[01:12] <carlos> mpt: confirmed, I did it
[01:12] <SteveA> danilos: monday
[01:12] <danilos> mpt: I'd also like to have bug 81278 cherrypicked
[01:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81278 in rosetta "Rosetta PO export is broken" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81278 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[01:12] <ddaa> On bug 49989, spiv reports he's very much working on it.
[01:13] <mpt> danilos, you've made the necessary wiki page changes?
[01:13] <SteveA> danilos: so, mail stuart, cc list today about organising what you need rolled out
[01:13] <mpt> ddaa, cool.
[01:13] <ddaa> as seen in his latest emails in "supermirror latency" discussion.
[01:13] <danilos> it's on the wiki page, PO exports are broken because this is still waiting
[01:13] <kiko> SteveA, well, we could ask lifeless to cherrypick it
[01:13] <danilos> lifeless seemed to be too busy with sprint yesterday
[01:13] <SteveA> no point as we'll be doing a rollout early next week
[01:13] <SteveA> and there is plently of ui 1.0 work for people to do
[01:13] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[01:14] <SteveA> just fif-candidate
[01:14] <SteveA> we discussed this last week, and I think we agreed to decline it
[01:14] <danilos> +1
[01:14] <SteveA> because just tagging as fix-it-friday should work well enough
[01:15] <danilos> except if matthewrevell offers reasonable background
[01:15] <SteveA> any comments on that matthewrevell ?  do you disagree strongly?
[01:15] <matthewrevell> SteveA: I don't disagree, no.
[01:15] <salgado> what does a fix-it-friday tag means? does it only mean that a bug is a candidate?
[01:15] <SteveA> ok, so, it's declined
[01:15] <matthewrevell> SteveA: It was more Matsubara's suggestion, though, so I don't want to speak in his stead.
[01:15] <salgado> I mean, should we remove the fix-it-friday tag once the bug is fixed?
[01:15] <SteveA> salgado: https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
[01:15] <SteveA> read the description there
[01:16] <kiko> SteveA, so..
[01:16] <SteveA> if the description there is not clear enough, then ask for clarification here.  if the description there does not match what we actually do
[01:16] <kiko> the fif-candidate was meant to be a workflow tag to help matsubara and matthewrevell coordinate
[01:16] <salgado> I'm asking because I had this discussion with matthewrevell 
[01:16] <SteveA> then ask matthewrevell to change its meaning
[01:16] <kiko> matsubara had built a page with a list of bugs
[01:16] <kiko> I asked him why are you doing this?
[01:16] <kiko> he said: how else could I group bugs that are potential fifs?
[01:16] <kiko> I said use a tag.
[01:16] <kiko> that's how it started
[01:16] <SteveA> well
[01:17] <kiko> now, we could soften the meaning of the main f-i-f tag
[01:17] <SteveA> why not mark potential fif bugs as fix-it-friday
[01:17] <kiko> right
[01:17] <kiko> we could do that
[01:17] <SteveA> and get them assigned to people when they're actually gong to be done
[01:17] <kiko> sounds fine by me
[01:17] <carlos> SteveA++
[01:17] <kiko> matthewrevell?
[01:17] <salgado> SteveA, that's why I asked for an explanation. I wanted to make sure that it _only_ means that a bug is a good candidate
[01:17] <matthewrevell> cool, sounds good
[01:17] <cprov> SteveA: +1
[01:17] <carlos> in fact, I'm doing it already... (only with two bugs)
[01:17] <mpt> Equivalent of "gnome-love" in b.g.o or "helpwanted" in b.m.o
[01:17] <kiko> mpt, no... helpwanted is something else
[01:17] <mpt> (roughly)
[01:17] <SteveA> ok.  matthewrevell please put the fif-candidate tag into the declined tags with a reason, and clarify the description of fix-it-friday
[01:18] <SteveA> on the tags page
[01:18] <matthewrevell> ok
[01:18] <kiko> mpt, and helpwanted couldn't make sense for launchpad really :-P
[01:18] <mpt> yeah
[01:18] <SteveA> that's a MeetingAction, btw
[01:18] <mpt> but it sorta means "this is easy enough for anyone to do"
[01:18] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:18] <SteveA> stuart isn't here
[01:18] <SteveA> I have some things to say
[01:18] <SteveA> a database patch landed on mainline
[01:19] <SteveA> when it was meant to be closed to database changes
[01:19] <SteveA> so edge isn't updating
[01:19] <SteveA> and we can't get newer changes from mainline to the ui branch
[01:19] <SteveA> until we do a rollout
[01:19] <SteveA> I'm going to get stuart/lifeless to add an actual switch to pqm
[01:19] <danilos> SteveA: is that my security.cfg change, or something else?
[01:19] <SteveA> to forbid database landings when we're in a freeze
[01:19] <ddaa> duh
[01:19] <SteveA> as this is becoming an important part of our workflow
[01:20] <SteveA> anyway, the tree is open to database landings now
[01:20] <cprov> danilos: nop, was my DB patch-67-14 ...
[01:20] <SteveA> so, if you have previously approved database patches, land them now
[01:20] <ddaa> it should still be possible to do backwards compatible database patches...
[01:20] <danilos> cprov: ah, ok, thanks; so security.cfg should not be a problem?
[01:20] <SteveA> when stub is back, we'll arrange a rollout, and sync up edge and beta again
[01:20] <carlos> danilos: it should
[01:20] <ddaa> too much workflow, too much workflow...
[01:20] <SteveA> ddaa: do you have something positive to contribute here?
[01:21] <ddaa> it should still be possible to do backwards compatible database patches...
[01:21] <SteveA> ddaa: do not arrive late, and also just be negative in the meeting
[01:21] <cprov> danilos: I think it's *also* a problem.
[01:21] <danilos> cprov: ok, I'll be careful with them as well
[01:21] <ddaa> I'm not deing negative, I'm saying that refusing all database patches is excessive in my opinion
[01:21] <ddaa> ... for the record.
[01:21] <SteveA> ddaa: I will explain edge to you later, after the meeting
[01:21] <mpt> There could be a window of ~2 days before each rollout where they could be allowed
[01:21] <carlos> ddaa: that kind of patches can be handled by Stuart directly
[01:22] <kiko> SteveA, well, let's see what ddaa has as an alternative?
[01:22] <SteveA> kiko: yes, after the meeting
[01:22] <kiko> ddaa, do you have an alternative to rejecting database patches that stills keeps edge running?
[01:22] <SteveA> kiko, ddaa: after the meeting
[01:22] <kiko> SteveA, don't give him a railing and not let him explain himself
[01:22] <mpt> because that would hardly block edge
[01:22] <ddaa> kiko: pqm checking that mainline can run with production schema.
[01:22] <SteveA> kiko: he should have done that when he was complaining.
[01:23] <SteveA> so, to conclude production and staging... write email to stuart, cc list
[01:23] <SteveA> to coordinate any rollouts you need to have done
[01:23] <SteveA> and any database landings you need
[01:23] <kiko> ddaa, I didn't understand what you meant.
[01:23] <SteveA> do it today
[01:23] <SteveA> so that you're not doing it during FiF, and so stuart gets the email as soon as he gets back
[01:24] <SteveA> we'll coordinate a full rollout early next week
[01:24] <SteveA> then edge will work again
[01:24] <SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:24] <danilos> Rosetta 1.0  weekly report:
[01:24] <danilos> - firefox import/export: no progress this week
[01:24] <danilos> - oo import/export: no progress this week
[01:24] <danilos> - translation review: DONE
[01:24] <danilos> - essential docs: no progress this week
[01:24] <danilos> - search via translation browsing: DONE
[01:24] <danilos> - checks not to upload wrong language PO file using "too many changes" check: Pending final spec discussion
[01:24] <danilos> - translation page for projects: bug 73875 (implemented, waiting for review), bug 79674 (in progress)
[01:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73875 in rosetta "Project needs a Translations page" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/73875 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79674 in rosetta "List translatable upstreams on separate page, sample on front page" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79674 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[01:24] <mpt> UI 1.0 report:
[01:24] <mpt>  * Remaining graphics arrived, not landed yet.
[01:24] <mpt>  * Many priority-2 pages implemented, and global search hooked up.
[01:24] <cprov> = Soyuz-1.0 Report =
[01:24] <cprov>  * Archive Rework: tested SoyuzTestSystem, pending code review
[01:24] <cprov>  * KeyServer DoS: fixed with a dedicated internal KeyServer for Soyuz.
[01:24] <cprov>  * ClosingBugsFromChangelog: discussion & prototype strategy definition
[01:24] <cprov>  * Incoming Fixes:
[01:24] <cprov>    * #76591 (Reliable PackageRelationShip parser/render): 
[01:24] <cprov>      merge-conditional (cprov, r=spiv)
[01:25] <cprov>    * #74965 (failure on +queue page permission check for empty queues):
[01:25] <cprov>      pending-review (cprov, r=jamesh)
[01:25] <cprov>    * #59443 (do not announce uploads to BACKPORTS):
[01:25] <cprov>      pending-review (cprov, r=jamesh)
[01:25] <salgado> - PillarGotchis:  going to land today
[01:25] <flacoste> = Support^WAnswer Tracker 1.0 =
[01:25] <flacoste> * SupportTrackerRename: spec in review, waiting for sanity check by SteveA.
[01:26] <kiko> ddaa, I /think/ I understood what you meant. but that would probably never happen
[01:26] <SteveA> thank you everyone
[01:26] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[01:26] <SteveA>  - there is an RT request about making the new bazaar code browser visible to the outside world
[01:26] <SteveA> I'm very keen on seeing that work
[01:27] <SteveA> anything else?
[01:27] <SteveA> 6
[01:27] <SteveA> 5
[01:27] <SteveA> 4
[01:27] <SteveA> 3
[01:27] <SteveA> 2
[01:27] <SteveA> 1
[01:27] <SteveA> ok
[01:27] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (MatthewRevell)
[01:27] <kiko> all my requests were dealt with promptly -- go elmo + Znarl + sysadmins
[01:27] <matthewrevell> This week's user-visible issue has obviously been the broken PO file exports.
[01:27] <matthewrevell> I've created a spec that I believe will help us better communicate about similar issues:
[01:27] <matthewrevell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/system-status-page
[01:27] <matthewrevell> Basically, it's a system status page, similar to that provided by ISPs. I think it will boost user confidence, because they'll see we're aware of issues and working ona fix. Your feedback, or cries of "we've spoken about it and decided it's a bad idea because xxx", will be greatly appreciated.
[01:27] <matthewrevell> Through a cruel key-combination, I managed to close Firefox whilst typing the spec page into the wiki, so I'll have to re-type it after the meeting.
[01:27] <SteveA> excellent feedback kiko
[01:28] <carlos> matthewrevell: nice idea
[01:28] <kiko> bad key fumble though
[01:29] <matthewrevell> kiko: I shouted very loudly
[01:29] <matthewrevell> :)
[01:29] <SteveA> matthewrevell: I like the sound of this.  Please mail the launchpad list when you have the retyped spec in there.
[01:29] <matthewrevell> SteveA: will do
[01:29] <SteveA>  * Everyone to comment "fixed in RF ''revision''" when marking a bug as Fix Committed (mpt)
[01:29] <mpt> The consensus from the discussion about "how do we tell what revision a bug is fixed in" seemed to be that:
[01:29] <danilos> matthewrevell: have you took the opportunity to switch to epiphany? the idea seems great, though
[01:29] <mpt> When you mark a bug Fix Committed, in the bug report you should comment the revision it was fixed in, e.g. "fixed in RF 456789".
[01:29] <mpt> So, this is just a reminder for everyone to do that.
[01:29] <mpt> That's all. :-)
[01:29] <SteveA> thanks mpt
[01:29] <SteveA> I have a further suggestion
[01:30] <SteveA> let's agree on a standard way to say this
[01:30] <SteveA> so when we have private branches and the code browser
[01:30] <SteveA> we can make it a hyperlink
[01:30] <SteveA> or even before then
[01:30] <mpt> (And so that later if we have a "fixed in" field, it can slurp up our comments...)
[01:30] <danilos> we can automate, right, that would be great
[01:30] <SteveA> we can make it a link for lp developers to a codebrowser on devpad
[01:31] <static> I would *love* a link to a codebrowser from the bug :)
[01:31] <danilos> I know of the discussion of marking bugs as fixed in Ubuntu package changelogs; has anyone considered that for LP as well with our pqm-submit messages?
[01:31] <SteveA> ddaa: the revision number in rocketfuel... is it unique to a particular branch? or to the whole repository?
[01:31] <ddaa> I'd suggest %s{unique_name}@%d{revno}
[01:31] <danilos> (iow, making this two-way)
[01:31] <SteveA> like, if we're working on beta and on mainline, those are different revno sequences I think
[01:31] <ddaa> SteveA: revision number is only meaningful in a branch
[01:31] <SteveA> ok, thanks ddaa
[01:32] <SteveA> so, we need to have something like what ddaa suggested
[01:32] <ddaa> SteveA: if you want repository meaningful, you need the revision id
[01:32] <SteveA> and not just RF
[01:32] <SteveA> rev id is too long
[01:32] <kiko> SteveA, it's easy to cut-n-paste though
[01:32] <SteveA> in the context of a launchpad bug, "mainline 3345" might work, "beta 6666"
[01:33] <SteveA> anyway, let's take this to the list or discussion later
[01:33] <flacoste> but revid would work for other projects using bzr as well
[01:33] <SteveA> thanks mpt
[01:33] <SteveA>  * Progress of UI week (Kiko/Steve)
[01:33] <SteveA> I want to do a quick poll
[01:34] <SteveA> if you did some work that directly improved the 1.0 ui this week say "I improved it".  If you did not, say "I didn't improve it (yet)"
[01:34] <SteveA> I didn't improve it (yet)
[01:34] <kiko> I improved it
[01:34] <mpt> I improved it
[01:34] <carlos> I improved it
[01:34] <static> I didn't improve it (yet)
[01:34] <salgado> I didn't improve it (yet)
[01:34] <danilos> I didn't improve it (yet)
[01:34] <ddaa> I didn't improve it (yet?)
[01:34] <danilos> (though I am in progress of doing it)
[01:34] <matthewrevell> I didn't improve it (yet)
[01:34] <flacoste> i improved it
[01:34] <cprov> I didn't improve it (yet)
[01:34] <kiko> salgado, sure you did! pillargotchis, team voting and membership stuff?
[01:35] <salgado> well, none of that work was done this week
[01:35] <kiko> some of it was -- review and landing. but ok
[01:35] <SteveA> I appreciate your ui work, salgado, but you're right, I'm talking specifically about this week
[01:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81449 in rosetta "Copy-button malfunctions while filtering" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81449
[01:36] <SteveA> ddaa is excused from ui week improvements, because he's doing very important work on the bzr imports backend
[01:36] <SteveA> and matthewrevell doesn't write code
[01:36] <SteveA> mpt: do you have any work in progress ready to land on the ui branch?
[01:37] <mpt> yes, I'm fixing the pagetests in it as we speak
[01:37] <SteveA> kiko and I will be going through the beta service with mark tomorrow afternoon (UTC)
[01:37] <mpt> (well, nearly as we speak)
[01:37] <mpt> and I have other fixes I need to do before your talk with mark
[01:37] <SteveA> and I'm not sure when beta gets updated daily, although we can force an update I imagine
[01:37] <SteveA> ok, great.  please send email to the list about what you've done
[01:37] <SteveA> when it's done and landed, just a brief one
[01:38] <SteveA> anything else on this topic from you kiko?
[01:38] <kiko> well, I had expected more UI work to actually go on, to be honest
[01:38] <SteveA> me too
[01:38] <SteveA> also, saying that, I didn't do any
[01:38] <kiko> I wonder if people weren't using beta, or if they didn't pay attention to beta bugs during the week?
[01:38] <SteveA> I propose we carry on through next week
[01:39] <kiko> it was an opportunity to fix any trivial positioning or presentation bugs 
[01:39] <SteveA> when bjorn will be back
[01:39] <SteveA> and matsubara
[01:39] <SteveA> and stuart
[01:39] <kiko> and by quickly scanning beta
[01:39] <kiko> a number still remain
[01:39] <SteveA> we have lots of beta users now
[01:39] <static> kiko: could you suggest some bugs for me after the meeting?
[01:39] <carlos> SteveA: does it apply to me, even if I finished my UI task already?
[01:39] <SteveA> and I'm arranging with elmo to move the server to carbon, so it'll be faster
[01:40] <kiko> static, I don't know of any offhand; I was just speaking of browsing beta and looking a the results
[01:40] <danilos> for many things mpt said he already had a lot of things fixed or planned to fix, even if we reported stuff to him
[01:40] <SteveA> carlos: discuss that with kiko later please
[01:40] <carlos> SteveA: ok
[01:40] <SteveA> thanks kiko.  we need to move on.
[01:40] <danilos> which was mainly about positioning stuff
[01:40] <SteveA>  * MOTU bugs (Kiko)
[01:40] <mpt> danilos, that applied only to CSS problems
[01:40] <danilos> mpt: right
[01:40] <kiko> -----MOTU BUGS-----
[01:40] <kiko> hello everybody
[01:40] <danilos> mpt: and that seems to be what kiko complained about
[01:41] <mpt> danilos, I *will* do that later today.
[01:41] <mpt> static, you could help matthewrevell with marketing material.
[01:41] <kiko> I have been in conversation with LaserJock for a week now about how to service MOTU better 
[01:41] <kiko> now MOTUs as you may be aware of are probably our largest regular user base
[01:42] <kiko> but they historically have not had a lot of say in what we develop, and how it's done
[01:42] <kiko> I propose we improve that by allowing them to help us prioritize some of our work
[01:42] <kiko> LaserJock has assembled an initial list of important bugs for MOTU
[01:42] <SteveA> hello LaserJock.  Welcome to the meeting.
[01:42] <kiko> I will go through it and reprioritize the bugs that need it
[01:42] <carlos> kiko: sounds good
[01:42] <kiko> and will also mark fix-it-friday on the ones that are trivial enough
[01:43] <SteveA> kiko: is this worth a tag?  or to specically mention motu in a comment on the bug?
[01:43] <danilos> SteveA: isn't priority good enough?
[01:43] <kiko> I don't know if a tag is required at this point; after going through the bugs I'll be able to say whether we'd have missed them or not
[01:43] <SteveA> I mean, a special tag for "motu-interest" ?
[01:43] <SteveA> danilos: it may well be
[01:43] <kiko> danilos, well, the issue is what happens to new bugs that interest MOTU
[01:43] <kiko> I can ask LaserJock to keep giving me bug lists periodically
[01:43] <kiko> or we can stop reimplementing launchpad tags in vim <wink>
[01:44] <kiko> anyway, I will look at the list and decide whether I want to propose a tag or not
[01:44] <SteveA> LaserJock: I want to invite you to ongoing launchpad meetings, to give brief feedback on how your bugfixing needs are being met by the launchpad team.
[01:44] <kiko> I think many of these bugs are long-standing and we just haven't gone to them
[01:44] <SteveA> LaserJock: if you agree, we'll have a standard brief report from you.
[01:44] <SteveA> but now... it's time for
[01:44] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[01:45] <carlos> DONE: bugs #80283, #75333, #70500, #45196, #79589, #73875, merged TranslationReview, Translation import queue handlng
[01:45] <carlos> TODO: Merge bug #45196, TranslationImportContinuityThreshold, bug #81439 and #79118
[01:45] <carlos> BLOCKED: No
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80283 in rosetta "Add a template for gnunet and gnunet-gtk" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80283 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75333 in rosetta "Restrict pockets that upload translations into Rosetta" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75333 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70500 in rosetta "en_GB translation is complete, but stats say "Untranslated: 995"" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/70500 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45196 in rosetta "Suggestions appear too late" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45196 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79589 in language-pack-gnome-es "Dapper language packs are missing some .po files with last update" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79589 - Assigned to Martin Pitt (pitti)
[01:45] <flacoste> DONE: reviews, bug fixes, interview
[01:45] <flacoste> TODO: support tracker rename, reviews, bug fixes
[01:45] <flacoste> BLOCKED: waiting on comments by SteveA on SupportTrackerRename spec
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Bug 81439 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/81439 is private
[01:45] <cprov> DONE: dogfooding Archive-Rework (completed), Resign test-uploads and other minor cleanups
[01:45] <cprov> TODO: one week holidays, then dogfooding PPA and test a solution for Warty & Hoary archive removal
[01:45] <cprov> BLOCKED: no
[01:45] <matthewrevell> DONE: Pycon sponsorship materials, tracking FiF plans, taking over roll-out reports, press release to announce SchoolTool adoption, blogs talking about Launchpad.net
[01:45] <matthewrevell> TODO: Planning for Bzr NL sprint, send out SchoolTool press release when approved, more Pycon stuff, reporting any significant FiF activity, about.launchpad.net spec, documentation spec, fly to Amsterdam, tracking what people say about Launchpad, report on Launchpad usage, more quick-start guides, elevator pitches, tracking competitor features, tracking tools used by major FOSS projects, contacting customers and s
[01:45] <matthewrevell> etting up a named contact, inviting ppl to beta.
[01:45] <matthewrevell> BLOCKED: Nothing.
[01:45] <ddaa> DONE: branch-scanner oopses, much discussion on supermirror latency and oopses
[01:45] <ddaa> TODO: finish oopsifying branch-scanner, oopsify other supermirror systems, improve supermirror latency
[01:45] <ddaa> BLOCKED: no
[01:45] <SteveA> DONE: recruitment, management, organising things, code review
[01:45] <SteveA> TODO: recruitment, management, organising things, code review
[01:45] <SteveA> BLOCKED: no
[01:45] <danilos> DONE: rosetta-export exceptions, bug fixing and fix-it-friday candidates, user support, work for 1.0 UI as bug 79674, resolved uncommitted part of 73509 fix with lifeless, carlos, kiko
[01:45] <danilos> TODO: have ff reviewed and landed, translation licensing summary and resolution, set-up debian-installer, glade3 properly for translation using Rosetta, finish up 79674
[01:45] <danilos> BLOCKED: no
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79674 in rosetta "List translatable upstreams on separate page, sample on front page" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79674 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[01:45] <salgado> DONE: Finished PillarGotchis, some code review, fixed https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/68295 and some other random things
[01:45] <salgado> TODO: code review, random fixes and start https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/72110
[01:45] <salgado> BLOCKED: no
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72110 in launchpad "Need to provide a way for anonymous users to get a list of archive mirrors on their country (or continent, if there's none in their country)" [Medium,Confirmed]   - Assigned to Guilherme Salgado (salgado)
[01:45] <kiko> DONE: coding! scripts work, popups, refactorings, the works. going well. reviews. management. interviews.
[01:45] <mpt> DONE: most priority-2 pages, other cleanup
[01:45] <mpt> TODO: fix spec listing presentation for Mark, finish 1.0
[01:45] <mpt> BLOCKED: those bugs listed in my Monday message
[01:45] <kiko> TODO: interviews and more coding
[01:45] <kiko> BLOCKED: no
[01:45] <static> DONE: recruitment, salesforce.com training, customer research
[01:45] <static> TODO: customer meetings, learn about bzrlib, respond to reviews, contribute to 1.0 ui
[01:45] <static> BLOCKED: no
[01:45] <SteveA> flacoste: paste me the URL here, I'll open it in my browser, and look at it after I have lunch
[01:46] <flacoste> SteveA: thanks! https://launchpad.canonical.com/SupportTrackerRename
[01:46] <SteveA> everyone, make sure you've read mpt's message, so you can help unblock him if needed
[01:46] <SteveA> thanks flacoste 
[01:46] <SteveA> btw, that's two MeetingActions
[01:46] <SteveA> one for me to give feedback to flacost
[01:47] <SteveA> one for everyone to ensure they've read mpt's message about ui blockers
[01:47] <SteveA> we're two minutes over time
[01:47] <mpt> I'll post an update on that message today
[01:47] <SteveA> so, time to wrap up
[01:47] <flacoste> kiko: will you be able to review tt-search-all (it's a 1.0 UI bug fix for mpt)?
[01:47] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[01:47] <SteveA> thanks for being here everyone
[01:47] <matthewrevell> I have two meeting actions too.
[01:47] <kiko> flacoste, ah, I remembered that now. I could though I'd rather focus on landing my branches.. I guess sure.
[01:48] <SteveA> ddaa: so, tell me more about why you feel there is too much workflow around getting database changes into production
[01:49] <SteveA> matthewrevell: say them in the meeting with MeetingAction, so they definintely get onto next week's agenda
[01:49] <ddaa> SteveA: so, I understand that edge is mainline code ran against a snapshot of the production database.
[01:49] <SteveA> no
[01:49] <SteveA> that is not so
[01:49] <SteveA> that would be staging
[01:49] <ddaa> so, ran again live production database
[01:49] <SteveA> yes
[01:49] <SteveA> edge is the latest code that will work against live production database
[01:49] <matthewrevell> SteveA: You'd already mentioned them during the meeting, but not in the conclusion, so I tihnk they were caught.
[01:49] <SteveA> ok
[01:49] <ddaa> so when mainline code no longer works on production database, edge goes down
[01:49] <SteveA> LaserJock: ping
[01:50] <SteveA> no
[01:50] <SteveA> edge gets frozen
[01:50] <LaserJock> SteveA: pong :-0
[01:50] <SteveA> and no longer updates with the latest code on mainline
[01:50] <ddaa> SteveA: okay
[01:50] <ddaa> SteveA: which is not something we like to happen, because then it's no longer edgy
[01:51] <SteveA> LaserJock: I invite you to future launchpad development meetings, starting next week.  I want to add a short agenda item for you to report in a short paragraph how we're doing at fixing bugs that are important to MOTU
[01:51] <LaserJock> cprov: btw, thanks very much for your comments on bug #81351
[01:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81351 in soyuz "motu-sru team should be able to approve uploads to -proposed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81351
[01:51] <SteveA> ddaa: yes, that's exactly right
[01:51] <ddaa> SteveA: so, surely, patches that prevent mainline code from running on the production database should only go in at rollout time?
[01:51] <kiko> SteveA, it's 4am for him
[01:51] <SteveA> kiko: ok
[01:51] <ddaa> SteveA: is that right?
[01:51] <SteveA> LaserJock: or invite another MOTU in your place
[01:51] <SteveA> LaserJock: thanks for coming to this meeting at such an hour
[01:51] <LaserJock> SteveA: yeah, as kiko said, is it ok for me to email it to somebody? or have somebody come to deliver it?
[01:52] <LaserJock> SteveA: well, I wanted to personally thank all of you for your hard work :-)
[01:52] <SteveA> ddaa: yes, they should go onto mainline during a small window before we do a full rollout.  We need to balance between having an edge that isn't updating, and getting testing of database patches on staging.
[01:52] <SteveA> ddaa: and not having so many "main" related branches that it gets difficult to manage
[01:52] <ddaa> SteveA: that makes a lot of sense.
[01:53] <SteveA> ddaa: the nice thing about the edge branch is that it just works... changes get merged automatically if they won't cause a problem
[01:53] <matthewrevell> LaserJock: Feel free to irc/mail me with things you want to have raised in the meeting, if timezones means you can't attend.
[01:53] <ddaa> SteveA: so you want pqm to reject _any_ database patch outside of this window.
[01:53] <SteveA> LaserJock: yes, you can email the launchpad users list, cc me and kiko, and it will get presented in the meeting
[01:53] <cprov> LaserJock: my pleasure. I may concentrate efforts to specify and get it done soon. Exposing soyuz features via web UI is the *original* plan.
[01:53] <SteveA> LaserJock: keep it to one paragraph please
[01:53] <LaserJock> SteveA: np ;-)
[01:54] <ddaa> SteveA: I think this is excessive, as there is a use for patches which are backwards compatible to go in outside of this window.
[01:54] <LaserJock> cprov: sorry if it sounded a little over-eager. We've been wanting that for something like a year now
[01:54] <SteveA> ddaa: yes.  I want stuart to control a switch that says "open for database landings" and "closed for database landings" for mainline
[01:54] <SteveA> ddaa: so, your use-case is that you sometimes want to land a backwards-compatible database change to mainline when the tree is closed to database landings
[01:55] <ddaa> SteveA: yes
[01:55] <SteveA> ddaa: I agree we should allow doing that.  There's a trick there, though.  Two points.
[01:55] <LaserJock> cprov: I just wanted to make sure we got Ubuntu archive admin and/or Technical Board approval before you actually went to all the work
[01:55] <SteveA> 1. stuart needs to agree and check that it is indeed backwards-compatible
[01:55] <SteveA>    so it needs special sign-off
[01:55] <SteveA>    otherwise it could screw up edge
[01:55] <ddaa> SteveA: 1. okay, that fits in the existing dba review workflow well
[01:55] <cprov> LaserJock: I suspected. Soyuz is way behind our plans :( but it's always time for catching up, it only depends how /wanted/ a feature is 
[01:56] <SteveA> 2. stuart needs to land it in a special way that doesn't stop edge from updating.  it can't go in the normal landing workflow.
[01:56] <ddaa> 2. Mh? Really?
[01:56] <kiko> cprov, I don't think we're way behind, to be honest -- we've done a lot of cool things, and more is close at hand
[01:56] <SteveA> so, you can still achieve what you want to, and we still keep pqm closed to database landings. it needs to be landed in a special way.
[01:56] <SteveA> stuart already did one of these.  basically, it needs to be done with cooperation of stuart
[01:57] <SteveA> as these "backwards compatible" changes are rare, I don't think this is a big problem
[01:57] <ddaa> Mh... :-/ Right. That makes sense.
[01:57] <ddaa> Thanks for explaining.
[01:57] <SteveA> I appreciate you wanting to get work landed without blocking
[01:58] <cprov> kiko: yes, I sounded depressing ... We've done coll things but, as always, there many others to be done.
[01:58] <SteveA> and having ideas to make this better
[01:58] <kiko> cprov, there always will be :-)
[01:58] <ddaa> SteveA: sorry if I sounded negative. We already have a lot of workflow in launchpad development. That's a good thing because it needed for better quality. But that's a bad thing because our agility sucks already.
[01:58] <SteveA> we need to balance this getting work landed quickly, with keeping stable systems in production, and continuing to allow edge and ui-one-zero to update from mainline
[01:58] <SteveA> ddaa: I agree.  You can always ask me for a conversation about why we have a particular piece of workflow.
[01:59] <SteveA> ddaa: who knows... sometimes we'll find out that we can improve things through such a conversation.
[01:59] <SteveA> I appreciat
[01:59] <ddaa> SteveA: all the workflows I have discussed so far make sense taken in isolation.
[01:59] <ddaa> but the way they add up is becoming more and more uncomfortable from my coder's perspective.
[02:00] <ddaa> I do not have a solution to this dilemma.
[02:00] <SteveA> document all of them that you encounter in 1 week
[02:00] <SteveA> then let's talk about the notes you took
[02:00] <cprov> LaserJock: It would be nice if you can get more community feedback/ideas about you proposal, elmo and cjwatson ideas about it. Maybe it worth a specification, let me check if we already have one for it.
[02:00] <SteveA> that would be a way to look at improving things or seeing if it's really as bad as you feel it is right now
[02:01] <ddaa> SteveA: Let's try this. One week might be a bit short, but it's an interesting idea.
[02:01] <SteveA> ok, deal
[02:01] <LaserJock> cprov: well, I emailed ubuntu-devel and asked specifically for mdz and ubuntu-archive feedback (which would include cjwatson)
[02:02] <cprov> LaserJock: we do, https://launchpad.canonical.com/UploadQueueManagement
[02:02] <LaserJock> cprov: when we've asked for similar things in the past (some sort of archive admining power) we've been told that it involves too much access to Canonical machinery (script running)
[02:03] <LaserJock> cprov: but when it was fully LP-based we could revisit it
[02:04] <cprov> LaserJock: well, it's still based on cmd-line tool as I said. We only have a prototype engine for it in the web-ui
[02:04] <LaserJock> cprov: sure, but the "possibility" gets us excited ;-)
[02:05] <cprov> LaserJock: nevermind me, the spec I pointed to you is completely old ...
[02:06] <LaserJock> cprov: and I can't see it anyway ;-)
[02:07] <cprov> LaserJock: meh, you better starting one under ubuntu wiki.
[03:03] <compengi> i've reported a bug in k3b
[03:03] <carlos> compengi: hi
[03:03] <kiko> those buggy kde packages
[03:03] <compengi> hi
[03:04] <carlos> compengi: hmm, I think you are in the wrong channel, what was it about?
[03:04] <compengi> i reported it in launchpad
[03:04] <carlos> sure, but if it's related with the k3b itself, you should ask at #ubuntu
[03:05] <kiko> compengi, that's great. how easy to use did you find launchpad?
[03:05] <compengi> kiko, it's friendly :)
[03:05] <kiko> nice to hear
[03:05] <carlos> compengi: launchpad is the infrastructure used by Ubuntu to handle translations, bugs and others, but we cannot give you support on packages, Ubuntu guys can
[03:05] <kiko> did you have any trouble with it, compengi?
[03:05] <compengi> kiko, nope
[03:06] <kiko> awesome!
[03:06] <compengi> kiko, i just created an account and reported the bug
[03:06] <flacoste> kiko, if you are looking for buggy try gnome, or even better evolution ;-)
[03:06] <kiko> flacoste, I don't use X, sorry
[03:07] <flacoste> kiko, right, and you develop these fancy javascript popup in your head?
[03:07] <flacoste> or does links support javascript nowadays
[03:10] <kiko> flacoste, I write the code and ask my sister to test it
[03:10] <flacoste> clever! and like they said two heads are better than one
[03:11] <compengi> if you want to check the bug too https://launchpad.net/bugs/81469
[03:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81469 in k3b "the program crashed while trying to burn a multi-session disc" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[03:15] <kiko> compengi, okay, cool. are you trying to find people that could help you with that bug?
[03:16] <compengi> kiko, not really i'm trying to help in improving the program by giving the bugs if any while working on it
[03:17] <kiko> compengi, right-o. you know that #ubuntu-bugs is the best place to discuss bugs in Ubuntu, right?
[03:17] <kiko> #launchpad just discusses the launchpad tools themselves
[03:17] <kiko> (you are of course welcome to hang out here I just was wondering)
[03:17] <compengi> it's okay :)
[03:17] <compengi> i'll go there and paste the link
[03:18] <kiko> and tell those slackers to fix your bug
[03:18] <kiko> ;)
[03:18] <compengi> ;)
[03:34] <lifeless> danilos: do sick actually. doing a cherrypickc run now
[03:35] <danilos> lifeless: thanks for handling the cherrypick
[03:47] <carlos> hmm
[03:47] <carlos> danilos: we got an error after the cherry pick
[03:47] <carlos> right?
[03:48] <carlos> or perhaps was run just before the cherry pick was done
[03:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81478 in malone "Collapse attachments added by apport into one comment" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81478
[03:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81479 in launchpad "Use permalink for every resource" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81479
[04:04] <danilos> carlos: it would have to be at least a different line number if it was after the cherry pick :)
[04:04] <carlos> :-P
[04:05] <danilos> carlos: also, we need to check with lifeless when the cherrypick is done
[04:05] <carlos> I saw 'thank you' and I thought it was done
[04:06] <danilos> :)
[04:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #2422 in launchpad "A (non-team) person can still set an emblem" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2422
[04:31] <salgado> are you nuts, Ubugtu?
[04:32] <ddaa> salgado: gotta love bugs that get filed as fixcommitted :)
[04:34] <salgado> heh. indeed
[04:38] <danilos> lifeless: any progress info on the cherrypick?
[04:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81490 in rosetta "Filtering on untranslated strings produces unexpected results" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81490
[04:40] <danilos> a dupe? carlos?
[04:41] <danilos> ah, no, it's different
[04:42] <carlos> let met check
[04:42] <danilos> and it's by our dear gnomie dave :)
[04:42] <danilos> I mean, it still probably is a dupe, but not of 79118 which I first thought
[04:45] <carlos> no, but it's a regression
[04:45] <carlos> anyway, set as FiF
[04:48] <lifeless> danilos: yes, its in progress
[04:48] <danilos> lifeless: ok, thanks, just let me know when it's done so we can check if the exports finally start working, and if we'll hit another problem in our code
[04:48] <lifeless> of course
[05:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81505 in launchpad "bugs.beta.launchpad.net has a terrible colour scheme" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81505
[06:21] <j-a-meinel> matthewrevell: Your going away message says "Talk to me about Launchpad", but how can I talk to you if you've left :)
[06:22] <matthewrevell> j-a-meinel: Good point :) I'll fix that!
[06:23] <matthewrevell> :)
[06:23] <j-a-meinel> Seems good :)
[06:25] <flint-dude> Hi matthewrevell
[06:26] <matthewrevell> hi flint-dude
[06:26] <kiko> hey flint-dude 
[06:26] <kiko> talk to matthewrevell. about launchpad. he's here <wink>
[06:26] <matthewrevell> :)
[06:26] <flint-dude> hi guys/gals
[06:28] <flint-dude> as you know I am new  Were is a good place to test bzr and learn to push an pull
[06:28] <kiko> you can test bzr on your local box
[06:28] <kiko> you can push your own branches to your +junk directory on the supermirror
[06:28] <kiko> google for ddaa bzr supermirror
[06:29] <flint-dude> by making me a dir
[06:29] <ddaa> hello
[06:29] <ddaa> I'm not sure uploading branches to launchpad is a good way to "test"
[06:29] <kiko> ddaa, even in his +junk dir?
[06:30] <flint-dude> I didn't think so 
[06:30] <flint-dude> google ddaa
[06:30] <ddaa> kiko: +junk is meant to hold branches that are not associated to any product
[06:30] <kiko> ddaa, bad name then
[06:31] <ddaa> we called it this way to compromise with sabdfl because he really did not want us to allow this
[06:31] <kiko> could be +misc or +no-product or anything else
[06:31] <kiko> but junk is meant to hold junk
[06:31] <ddaa> kiko: so +junk is meant to look bad
[06:31] <kiko> (no it's not your fault)
[06:31] <kiko> I'm just saying that if you call it junk
[06:31] <ddaa> it also refers to Tridge's junkcode...
[06:31] <kiko> people will upload junk to it
[06:31] <ddaa> I do not have a problem if they do.
[06:31] <ddaa> I would just not encourage them to.
[06:32] <kiko> regardless of what we intend via subliminal messages referring to tridge's fridge.
[06:32] <kiko> :)
[06:32] <kiko> ok
[06:32] <ddaa> flint-dude: what do you want to test?
[06:32] <kiko> it's damned easy to test bzr with though. :)
[06:32] <ddaa> I am not sure what you want to do... you can test push and pull on your local filesystem
[06:33] <ddaa> it behaves almost the same as across the network (the difference is that push does not create a working-tree when pushing across the network)
[06:33] <flint-dude> ddaa just want to make sure bza is install proper.
[06:34] <LarstiQ> flint-dude: if you have bzr 0.14 you can also try to run `bzr selftest`
[06:35] <LarstiQ> flint-dude: though there could be some test failures depending on your platform
[06:35] <flint-dude> I have bzr .14 Larstiq
[06:36] <ddaa> flint-dude: if you run Ubuntu or Debian, can just use the package manager...
[06:36] <ddaa> http://bazaar-vcs.org/Download
[06:37] <ddaa> LarstiQ: I guess it would be good to have command in bzr that says what important external dependencies are missing...
[06:37] <flint-dude> ddaa I have some links for bzr .  just wanted to make sure it stayed in my box
[06:38] <ddaa> something like "Missing dependencies:\n paramiko: sftp support disabled \n cElementTree: operation will be slower \n pycurl: http support will be slower" etc.
[06:38] <ddaa> LarstiQ: what do you think?
[06:39] <LarstiQ> ddaa: that has at least been proposed, not sure if there is code for it
[06:39] <ddaa> LarstiQ: do you know if there is a bug open for this?
[06:40] <flint-dude> ddaa it's something great to work with I got some mail on the loggerhead
[06:40] <LarstiQ> https://launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/48842
[06:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48842 in bzr "Feature request: "bzr check-install"" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
[06:40] <ddaa> flint-dude: all the dependencies are documented there http://bazaar-vcs.org/InstallationFaq
[06:40] <LarstiQ> ddaa: note that urlib should be at least as good as pycurl by now
[06:41] <ddaa> if you have installed it all, your best bet is to just go ahead and do what you need to
[06:41] <ddaa> flint-dude: if you really want to, you could test http and and sftp locally with little effort, but I do not think it would be worth your trouble.
[06:42] <ddaa> it's probably more interesting for your to go ahead and do whatever you intended to use bzr for...
[06:42] <flint-dude> Thanks for the help is it cool to download logger head too thes program is great with bzr
[06:43] <LarstiQ> bzr push sftp://localhost/tmp/test
[06:43] <LarstiQ> flint-dude: yes, see http://www.lag.net/loggerhead/
[06:43] <ddaa> LarstiQ: that's assuming he's got sshd running :) Too many assumptions.
[06:44] <LarstiQ> ddaa: what, doesn't every system come with that? Phaw!
[06:44] <ddaa> LarstiQ: a default ubuntu install does not have one
[06:44] <ddaa> most people do not need, or care to know about it.
[06:44] <kiko> LarstiQ, I keep asking who these cavemen are and all I hear is grunting
[06:44] <ddaa> and frankly, seeing how real people manage their passwords, it's all for the better...
[06:45] <kiko> can't you link bugs to specs?
[06:45] <kiko> I was sure you could
[06:46] <kiko> ah there it is
[06:46] <ddaa> kiko: though, I guess it would be good to have a demo/staging supermirror...
[06:46] <lifeless> ddaa: a demo hosting service would be good
[06:46] <lifeless> ddaa: dunno about the supermirror en toto
[06:47] <kiko> todo and kansas
[06:47] <LarstiQ> ddaa: yeah, I've recently seen an ubuntu machine get compromised due to a very very weak password
[06:47] <ddaa> lifeless: well, if you want the hosting service to work properly, you pretty much the whole supermirror chain...
[06:47] <ddaa> s/you pretty/you need pretty/
[06:49] <lifeless> ddaa: so? have a flag in the db that says 'this is staging, and dont give the puller non hosted branches'
[06:49] <lifeless> s/db/config
[06:49] <ddaa> lifeless: right
[06:50] <ddaa> then there needs to be a distinction between production-hosted and staging-hosted branches
[06:50] <ddaa> because staging db is reset daily to production
[06:50] <ddaa> so it would see the production Branch records, but should ignore them.
[06:50] <ddaa> not very hard
[06:51] <ddaa> just not trivial
[06:55] <kiko> ddaa, will your branch conflict with mine? want to gang up on the topic of oops reporting for scripts?
[06:55] <ddaa> kiko: dunno, my scripts-oops branch only touches webapp/errorlog.py and its tests...
[06:56] <Ubugtu> New bug: #2037 in malone "feature request: closing via changelog" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2037
[06:56] <ddaa> kiko: my branch-scanner-oops only touches launchpad/scripts/branch_scanner.py
[06:56] <ddaa> kiko: I do not think I'm stepping on anybody's toes.
[06:57] <ddaa> kiko: maybe you can rephrase your question...
[06:59] <kiko> ddaa, nah, that was my question. so the first branch is only infrastructure, eh? I'll look into it.
[06:59] <ddaa> kiko: it's in pqm already
[06:59] <kiko> I know
[07:00] <ddaa> kiko: next week, I'll be oopsifying the branch puller as well.
[07:00] <ddaa> and coordinating with matsubara to get a good oops summary system.
[07:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #3882 in malone "time based / temporary subscriptions to bug reports (and packages)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3882
[07:01] <kiko> ddaa, feel free to add to the base class I gave you
[07:02] <ddaa> kiko: I wont, I have been repeatedly asked in words of one syllabe to focus on getting oopses as quickly as possible.
[07:02] <ddaa> so anything that's not on the critical path and is not arguably trivial is out of scope.
[07:03] <kiko> ddaa, it's pretty trivial to add API there for your scripts to use, avoiding you to need to cut-n-paste it
[07:03] <kiko> but anyway
[07:03] <ddaa> kiko: right, but I'm not adding any new script :)
[07:04] <ddaa> otherwise I would certainly use your script base class.
[07:13] <flint-dude> thanks for the help ... if I need to ask for help is it the bazzar-ng@lists-canonical.com
[07:14] <lifeless> or the #bzr channel here
[07:15] <flint-dude> I going to read the letters
[07:16] <flint-dude> later sir
[07:24] <LarstiQ> and the correct address is bazaar@lists.canonical.com
[08:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81533 in launchpad "Bug attachment without description loses filename when page reloads with validation errors" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81533
[08:32] <kiko> dupe
[09:31] <Ubugtu> New bug: #56845 in malone "Bug listing sort order should allow sorting by In Progress first" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56845
[09:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #1706 in malone "Malone/Launchpad should be CVE compatible" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706
[09:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #33145 in launchpad "Cannot submit form if Person requires clarifying without doing a non-obvious no-op" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/33145
[09:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #51046 in malone "The newbug-style email a new bug contact receives on product/package reassignment is confusing" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/51046
[09:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #53008 in malone "Malone needs a "by most relevant" sort order" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53008
[09:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #3140 in malone "Bug watches can't be removed" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3140
[09:41] <salgado> Ubugtu went nuts again
[09:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #29227 in launchpad "Searching for "pmu" doesn't find "/dev/pmu"" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/29227
[10:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #996 in malone "Help with duplicate finding" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/996
[10:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #1690 in malone "IBugTarget should grow a createTask method" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690
[10:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #3620 in malone "Malone should provide a guided bug form to reduce duplicate bug reports" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3620
[10:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #3793 in malone "Need button beside all text entry windows" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3793
[10:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81542 in launchpad-bazaar "this branch was not scanned yet, or no revision were found on the last scan" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81542
[10:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #3165 in malone "LP Should not email bug contents when bug marked as confidential" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3165
[10:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #3333 in malone "BugTaskSearchParams + IBugTarget.searchTasks == IConfusion" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3333
[10:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #3464 in malone "Non-subscriber emailing a private bug causes an exception in the handler" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3464
[10:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #3683 in malone "Error message not specific in status editing page (+editstatus)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3683
[10:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #3796 in malone "Display "Duplicate" as if it's a status" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3796
[10:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81544 in launchpad-bazaar "branch scanner does not support time travel" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81544
[10:16] <radix> probably someone should file a bug against Python about datetime...
[10:18] <ddaa> radix: thank you for volunteering
[10:18] <radix> ddaa: sure thing :-)
[11:06] <jbailey> Is it possible to delete a release series?
[11:09] <kiko> jbailey, not really, but file a support request and I'll deal with it
[11:10] <jbailey> kiko: Thanks. =)
[11:10] <LarstiQ> iirc ddaa added the option to move a release series to another product?
[11:10] <ddaa> oh? did I?
[11:10] <LarstiQ> or something like that
[11:10] <ddaa> it had been there for a long time actually
[11:10] <LarstiQ> let me search my logs
[11:10] <LarstiQ> ddaa: oh well, brought it to my attention then :)
[11:10] <ddaa> and last I checked it had badly broken permissions
[11:11] <ddaa> I think kiko has been working with some of his minions to fix it
[11:11] <LarstiQ> k
[11:12] <kiko> yes
[11:13] <jbailey> kiko: Thanks!
[11:13] <jbailey> ddaa: Does the svn import work automatically?  Or do I still need to poke?
[11:13] <kiko> the permissions are broken, but matsubara has a fix for it.
[11:13] <ddaa> jbailey: poke
[11:13] <ddaa> i usually herd imports more or less daily
[11:13] <ddaa> depending how busy I am
[11:13] <jbailey> Cool.  I'll email.
[11:14] <ddaa> those days, it's rather less daily than more
[11:14] <ddaa> jbailey: I think it's not going to be automatic in the near future, because users have an habit of entering random (and sometimes dangerous) values there...
[11:15] <jbailey> Right. =)
[11:26] <Ubugtu> New bug: #41063 in malone "Mail notification of bug creation includes things that haven't happened yet" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/41063
[12:00] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[12:00] <LaserJock> hi mpt
[12:00] <mpt> Fridays suck
[12:00] <mpt> kiko, still around?
[12:01] <LaserJock> that's why I'm still on Thursday
[12:02] <LaserJock> well, it's been more like a Friday
[12:02] <mpt> Another Thursday would be real nice
[12:03] <LaserJock> had fun watching LP meeting at 04:00, then went to dentist for 2hr at 08:30, then went to work .... still there
[12:07] <jml> mpt: hi
[12:10] <mpt> Ah, another Australian --> another person awake when I am
[12:13] <spiv> mpt: :)