[12:15] <jdong> any pointers why initramfs would say /dev/sdb1 doesn't exist, but I go to do it manually, and it does magically exist?
[12:17] <keescook> jdong: race with the kernel.
[12:17] <keescook> one sec, let me find the bug
[12:18] <jdong> keescook: actually, no, I think I found it :)
[12:18] <keescook> oh?
[12:18] <jdong> keescook: initramfs's fstype is blissfully unaware of reiser4
[12:18] <keescook> aaah
[12:18] <keescook> different problem.  :)
[12:18] <jdong> lol
[12:27] <jdong__> PWNED :)
[12:28] <jdong> Linux wifenpieces 2.6.19-beyond2 #1 SMP Thu Jan 25 14:42:08 EST 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
[12:55] <keescook> is publication on hold?
[01:10] <gnomefreak> keescook: publication? as in uploads?
[01:22] <keescook> gnomefreak: yeah.
[01:22] <lamont> keescook: yeah... maybe I'll see if I can get it from them wearing my day-job hat
[01:23] <gnomefreak> keescook: i believ ethey are in sprint this week
[01:23] <keescook> gnomefreak: right, but does that mean freeze?  uploads were working earlier this week.  :)
[01:23] <gnomefreak> so it will slow down and pick up torwards end of sprint. iirc that is what happened with edgy
[01:24] <gnomefreak> keescook: no freeze that i know of
[01:24] <keescook> okay, just thought I'd double check
[01:24] <gnomefreak> if it is its not listed on the release schedule
[01:34] <bhale> keescook: my upload didnt show up either
[01:34] <keescook> bhale: publication from LP to the archives must be down for some reason
[01:35] <ajmitch> how annoying
[01:35] <ajmitch> launchpad guys know about it yet?
[01:35] <bhale> oh
[01:35] <bhale> my upload wasnt even accepted
[01:35] <keescook> ajmitch: I've poked them, yeah
[01:50] <lamont> keescook: do you care about bind 9.2.4?
[01:50] <keescook> lamont: I don't, no.  thanks, though
[01:50] <lamont> keescook: what?!?! no warty patch???  slacker!
[01:50] <lamont> :-)
[01:50] <bhale> haha
[01:52] <keescook> Oct 31 2006 was a good day for me.  :)
[01:52] <lamont> keescook: btw, I have issues with the ubuntu patch in bind9....
[01:53] <lamont> 9.4 sets the defaults for allow-recursion and allow-cache-query to localhost and localnets respectively...  that's not what the ubuntu patch does...
[01:53] <keescook> lamont: ah, yeah, had wanted to talk to you about that.  what're your thoughts?
[01:53] <lamont> I added a NEWS file in 9.4.0~rc2-1 (rc1-3???) about the change, and called it soup.
[01:53] <lamont> I have no plans to change the default for 9.3
[01:54] <lamont> setting it to allow amplifier attacks via any machine on the cable service provider's local net of 2000+ homes doesn't strike me as really solving the issue at all...
[01:54] <lamont> this also let me avoid changing the conffile at all... :-)
[01:55] <keescook> I figured that was a corner case since many people have a NAT device between them and the cable.  And those that don't are usually running pretty customized named's.
[01:56] <bddebian> lamont or keescook: You wouldn't happen to know what happened to gnome-vfs-mime.h would you?
[01:56] <lamont> and in 9.3, allow-recursion really just determines your response to something not in the cache - you'll still cough up whatever's in the cache.
[01:56] <lamont> bddebian: sounds like a gnome question... :)
[01:56] <ajmitch> bddebian: what do you mean? it still seems to be there
[01:56] <keescook> lamont: ah, so really it should have included allow-cache-query { localnets; }; as well?
[01:57] <bddebian> ajmitch: In gnomevfs2-dev?
[01:57] <lamont> keescook: and allow-recursion {localhost}
[01:57] <lamont> if you're going to lock it down until the admin configures it to what he wants, lock it down... don't go half way
[01:57] <ajmitch> libgnomevfs2-dev: /usr/include/gnome-vfs-2.0/libgnomevfs/gnome-vfs-mime.h
[01:57] <lamont> keescook: matching the 9.4 default would have been a good thing, you see.... :-)
[01:57] <keescook> lamont: I didn't want to limit it to localhost for fear of breaking people that were using named in a default config on a local business network.
[01:57] <bddebian> ajmitch: That's on feisty?
[01:58] <ajmitch> bddebian: of course
[01:58] <lamont> in a local business network, localnets tends to break me just as badly as localhost, for most companies
[01:58] <bddebian> wtf
[01:58] <keescook> then when they got an update, it would blow up their DNS
[01:58] <ajmitch> updated only a few minutes ago
[01:58] <keescook> for big companies, yeah
[01:58] <lamont> _NONE_ of the company nameservers in HP are on the same subnets as _ANY_ desktop or non-dns server.
[01:58] <keescook> again, I figured a larger company would have a customized named.conf
[01:58] <keescook> right
[01:58] <keescook> my concern was with people that installed named, but didn't change the named.conf
[01:59] <lamont> and, with the conffile change, the upgrade gui silently screams to a halt until you open the terminal and discover that it's asking you a question...
[01:59] <lamont> HP also specifically has _NO_ recursion restrictions on its nameservers
[01:59] <lamont> administratively prohibitive
[01:59] <keescook> I wanted to limit the impact as much as possible.  For me personally, I totally agree with the 9.4 defaults and will happily defend them for ubuntu too.  :)
[02:00] <lamont> of course, HP also has >1% of the total core-routable unicast IPv4 address space...
[02:00] <lamont> our bad
[02:01] <lamont> the next acquisitions are: Apple, MIT, and Ford Motor.  then we can advertise 16/6. :-)
[02:01] <keescook> eek
[02:02] <lamont> well, I doubt they'll do that...
[02:02] <keescook> no way to change the external recursion issues, eh?
[02:02] <lamont> I objected to the compaq merger on the basis that 15/8 and 16/8 do not aggregate.
[02:03] <keescook> heh
[02:03] <lamont> too many networks to list, and new business partners that use HP for recursion on a frequent basis.  maintaining the list is beyond the scope of sensibility
[02:03] <lamont> and besides, I _use_ those nameservers sometimes. :-)
[02:03] <keescook> yeah.  would be interesting to see a "no new DNS servers can have recursion" or something like
[02:04] <lamont> the authorititative servers do not allow recursion
[02:04] <lamont> the non-authoritative servers exist to serve.
[02:04] <bddebian> Gah, duhhhh: error: gnome-vfs-module-2.0/libgnomevfs/gnome-vfs-mime.h
[02:05] <lamont> when I was in charge of DNS at HP, my assertion was that when we saw the network/cpu load due to, uh, unauthorized queries for NTP and/or DNS, then and only then would we consider blocking the miscreants.
[02:07] <lamont> my replacement was there for the discussion, and concurs.. now it's just a question of how long we can hold back the masses...
[02:07] <keescook> heh
[02:07] <lamont> OTOH, certain parts of the company were managing zone delegation by configuring forwarders on every &*%&*)%_ nameserver instead of adding the SOA RR.. sigh
[02:07] <lamont> that, uh, changed.
[02:09] <keescook> owchy.  :)
[02:10] <lamont> 'twas an education exercise....
[02:10] <lamont> hrm.. just need alpha, m6k and powerpc to finish building 9.3.4-1 for debian (and several to upload their built bits)...
[02:11] <lamont> keescook: feel free to point pitti at me and I'll defend why 9.3.4 is a good plan for breezy and forward...
[02:11] <lamont> dunno that he'll buy it, of course.
[02:12] <keescook> how does the abi change work, since that's an issue for earlier release regardless?
[02:15] <bddebian> ajmitch: That did it, thanks.. I'm such a dork :-(
[07:41] <grndslm> would it be fairly easy to integrate the insight debugger into gedit somehow or at least integrate gdb and insight's design/commands??
[08:35] <TheMuso> c
[09:08] <dholbach> good morning
[09:08] <_ion> adequate morning
[09:08] <fabbione> morning
[09:10] <joejaxx> its 3am here
[09:11] <joejaxx> everyone in the us is sleep lol
[09:18] <ogra> seb128, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400662 :-D
[09:18] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 400662 in gnome-power-manager "please add ubuntu patch to upstream source" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]  
[09:18] <ogra> that was the last patch apart from LTSP :)
[09:19] <seb128> ogra: nice, and did you forward the crasher?
[09:20] <ogra> yep
[09:21] <ogra> seb128, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400654 ... ours is linked to it
[09:21] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 400654 in general "segfault on ppc architecture since upgrade to 2.17.90" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  
[09:26] <Riddell> Mithrandir: can you give back kdeutils and kdeartwork please?
[09:34] <Mithrandir> Riddell: given-back
[09:35] <pitti> cjwatson: I reviewed the xubuntu-system-tools diff for bug 59946, I'd like to approve the -proposed upload; is that ok for you?
[09:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59946 in xubuntu-system-tools "Admin tools require admin group membership" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/59946
[09:38] <cjwatson> pitti: yes
[09:38] <cjwatson> I approved it too
[09:40] <pitti> cjwatson: mvo's new app-install-data for proposed is trivial (capitalizations of the Eula), I'll approve that
[09:42] <cjwatson> pitti: ok
[09:46] <cjwatson> sladen: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerDevelopment
[10:01] <ogra> fabbione, BenC ... https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaboot/+bug/81589 
[10:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81589 in yaboot "iMac G3 Keyboard and ramdisk load problem" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[10:03] <fabbione> pitti, cjwatson: 81598
[10:03] <Mithrandir> iwj: we're supposed to discuss grub 2 at some time, prod me when you have time.
[10:04] <fabbione> pitti, cjwatson: and I have the uploads ready 
[10:04] <pitti> bug 81598
[10:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81598 in lvm2 "[SRU]  lvm2 check if device is md is broken on big endian machines" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81598
[10:19] <sfllaw> pitti: Ping?
[10:19] <sfllaw> pitti: Bug 59946?
[10:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59946 in gnome-system-tools "Admin tools require admin group membership" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/59946
[10:19] <pitti> sfllaw: yes?
[10:19] <sfllaw> Did you accept Gauvain's patch to edgy-updates?!?
[10:20] <pitti> sfllaw: no, to -proposed
[10:20] <sfllaw> Phew.  OK.
[10:20] <pitti> sfllaw: sorry if I typo'ed in the bug report
[10:26] <fabbione> pitti: bug #81125 (SRU for dapper)
[10:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81125 in glibc "libc6 update for Edgy fails due to sanity check" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81125
[10:29] <tkamppeter__> doko, ping
[10:32] <cypher1> i am getting little dissatisfied with Ubuntu's uptime :(
[10:32] <ogra> dont shut it down then :)
[10:33] <cypher1> ogra, :) by uptime i meant the time interval between a reboot.. not booting time :)
[10:33] <ogra> i know what uptime is ...
[10:33] <cypher1> ogra, sorry..
[10:34] <ogra> ogra@aleph:~$ uptime
[10:34] <ogra>  10:34:34 up 384 days, 15:54,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[10:34] <cypher1> ogra, hah.. thats cool
[10:34] <cypher1> my sys crawls after 3 days
[10:35] <cypher1> ogra, can FF be a reason ?
[10:35] <ogra> might be, but this is not a suport channel ...
[10:35] <ogra> file a bug if you thin it's worth one ...
[10:36] <ogra> *think
[10:36] <cypher1> ok thanks
[10:38] <ogra> seb128, 
[10:38] <ogra> # Add translation domain to .desktop file
[10:38] <ogra> echo 'X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=dia' >> debian/dia-gnome/usr/share/applications/dia.desktop
[10:38] <ogra> /bin/sh: cannot create debian/dia-gnome/usr/share/applications/dia.desktop: Directory nonexistent
[10:38] <ogra> make: *** [install-stamp]  Error 2
[10:38] <ogra> :((((
[10:38] <mvo> cjwatson: could you please have a look at the SRU proposal for bug  #81428?
[10:38] <seb128> ogra: did you move the .desktop to the dia package?
[10:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81428 in app-install-data-commercial "sugarcrm needs update of app-install-data-commercial and a synaptic fix" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81428
[10:38] <seb128> ogra: or did they rename it?
[10:38] <ogra> i have a dia.desktop.in.in
[10:38] <seb128> ogra: find debian -name "*.desktop"
[10:38] <ogra> in the source
[10:39] <BenC> Anyone willing to performa a test for me?
[10:39] <BenC> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies
[10:39] <seb128> ogra: what about the find?
[10:39] <BenC> do this on edgy kernel and feisty kernel and tell me if they are the same or not?
[10:39] <ogra> nope
[10:39] <BenC> mdz: ^^
[10:39] <seb128> BenC: 
[10:39] <seb128> $ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies
[10:39] <seb128> 1500000 1400000 1200000 1000000 800000 600000
[10:39] <seb128> oh
[10:39] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/packages/dia-0.96-pre3$ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies
[10:39] <ogra> 1600000 800000 
[10:39] <BenC> seb128: .17 or .20?
[10:39] <seb128> will try on edgy in a few min
[10:39] <seb128> that's .20
[10:39] <ogra> here too
[10:39] <BenC> ok
[10:40] <seb128> I also have .17 on feisty and edgy on my laptop
[10:40] <seb128> which one do you want?
[10:40] <cypher1> BenC, in edgy 1733000 1333000 1067000 800000
[10:42] <ogra> seb128, but the packaing is based on our last package ...
[10:42] <ogra> (i made it fro the new tar.gz)
[10:42] <ogra> *from
[10:43] <seb128> ogra: what does that find print?
[10:43] <ogra> nothing as i said ...
[10:43] <ogra> there is no .desktop file we ship in the debian dir
[10:44] <ogra> we have an upstream .desktop.in.in file in the source which i would have expected to be installed
[10:44] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/packages/dia-0.96-pre3$ grep applications debian/*
[10:44] <ogra> debian/dia-gnome.files:usr/share/applications
[10:44] <ogra> debian/rules:   echo 'X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=dia' >> debian/dia-gnome/usr/share/applications/dia.desktop
[10:44] <ogra> and dia-gnome should install it 
[10:44] <mdz> pitti: ping
[10:45] <seb128> ogra: well, the question is to know if the "make install" does install a .deskop
[10:45] <seb128> desktop
[10:45] <ogra> yep
[10:45] <seb128> if it does the find command should print it
[10:45] <seb128> make install is made to debian/tmp
[10:45] <dholbach> mdz: there's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Launchpad/Guide
[10:45] <seb128> the find is to run after build
[10:46] <dholbach> mdz: I just searched for 'ubuntu-universe-sponsors'
[10:46] <ogra> ah, sorry, i ran it on the clean source 
[10:46] <dholbach> it looks a bit confused though
[10:46] <mdz> dholbach: all your docs are belong to SponsorshipProcess
[10:46] <seb128> ogra: np, could you try again after build? ;)
[10:46] <ogra> yep
[10:46] <ogra> copying to a new dir ...
[10:47] <dholbach> mdz: looking
[10:47] <seb128> brb
[10:47] <mdz> dholbach: soon
[10:52] <mvo> BenC: freq is the same on my machien on edgy and feisty
[10:52] <BenC> mvo: thanks
[10:52] <mvo> cheers
[10:58] <seb128> BenC: 
[10:58] <seb128> on feisty: 1500000 1400000 1200000 1000000 800000 600000
[10:58] <seb128> on edgy: 600000 800000 1000000 1200000 1400000 1500000
[10:59] <BenC> seb128: Ok, so the same, just reversed for sysfs show...thanks
[10:59] <seb128> right, np
[11:08] <ogra> seb128, hmm, not even /usr/share/applications :(
[11:08] <ogra> but the .desktop file is in the source dir after the build
[11:09] <seb128> ogra: add a cp to debian/rules and bug upstream about it 
[11:09] <ogra> yeah
[11:10] <ogra> tats what i'm currently doing ... but it's odd ... i see the code to copy it to $datadir in the makefile ...
[11:11] <ogra> (applicationsDATA_INSTALL) "$$d$$p" "$(DESTDIR)$(applicationsdir)/$$f"; ....
[11:12] <seb128> ugly :p
[11:16] <ogra> and not working apparently :)
[11:17] <ogra> it doesnt even get installed for the dia package
[11:17] <ogra> not only dia-gnome 
[11:21] <ogra> Riddell, again !
[11:42] <doko> tkamppeter__: pong
[11:50] <tkamppeter__> doko, have you seen the mail from Henrique about HPLIP 1.7.1?
[11:51] <doko> tkamppeter__: yes
[11:51] <doko> tkamppeter__: just prepare hplip packages for ubuntu then
[11:52] <tkamppeter__> doko, is there something special I have to know about when packaging HPLIP? For now I have only synchronized fromm Debian.
[11:53] <tkamppeter__> Especially HPLIP is heavily patched because the Python directories are moved to other places.
[11:54] <doko> tkamppeter__: no, just take the packaging; the only thing hmh does is to rerun the auto tools; maybe you can ask him to checkin the 1.7.1 sources, so that the same upstream tarball can be shared.
[12:12] <mdz> dholbach: there seems to be no link from MOTU to MOTU/FAQ
[12:13] <dholbach> mdz: fixed
[12:13] <mdz> thanks!
[12:16] <dholbach> cjwatson: inheritance of clues is working now - once somebody reviews it, it'll be in bughelper.main (ubiquity could inherit from partman, ... then, and a '-v1' would find all the inherited clues on the "first level", and so on)
[12:21] <cjwatson> mvo: updated 81428
[12:22] <cjwatson> dholbach: neat, thanks
[12:44] <cjwatson> Riddell: MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Kubuntu has a link to http://kubuntu.org/~jr/kubuntu_01_kdepot.diff which is a dead link; could you update that?
[12:46] <Riddell> cjwatson: done
[12:48] <incorrect> are all packages in ubuntu from debian or are some of ubuntu's teams creation?
[12:49] <bhale> incorrect: some only exist in ubuntu
[12:49] <bhale> or are changed between debian and ubuntu
[12:50] <incorrect> does ubuntu do anything different to debian in the way they use dpkg?
[12:50] <bhale> could you be more specific?
[12:50] <bhale> not really
[12:50] <bhale> we added a Breaks: command
[12:51] <bhale> which i think might be in Debian now
[01:08] <ogra> luunch
[01:12] <incorrect> i am working on packaging snmp 5.4 has i have run into issues with the stock release
[01:12] <incorrect> i am just looking at what the easiest way would be to drop the updated source code into a package
[02:07] <seb128> non-debug backtraces are pretty much empty at the moment with feisty, does anybody has an idea of what could be causing that?
[02:07] <seb128> usually you have function names, atm most of them are "??"
[02:09] <siretart> enrico: any news about some new python-debian upload? I didn't notice anything on the mailing list
[02:11] <mdz> seb128: dholbach says that /apps/compiz/general/allscreens/options/active_plugins must have 'decoration' in the list, but mine only has [gconf] 
[02:12] <seb128> mdz: right, looks like there is some problem with desktop-effects since the compiz 0.3.6 update
[02:12] <seb128> I've grabbed the new desktop-effects from fedora just before the sprint, might still have a bug to fix though
[02:12] <seb128> it's on my list of things to look at
[02:13] <seb128> unset the key with gconf-editor to go back to the schemas default list
[02:30] <doko> Mithrandir: until when should the iso testing be done?
[02:36] <Mithrandir> doko: just ignore that mail for now. :-)
[02:49] <sfllaw> pitti: For bug 81428, can you set things to Fix Confirmed when you accept things into -proposed?
[02:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81428 in synaptic "sugarcrm needs update of app-install-data-commercial and a synaptic fix" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81428
[02:52] <pitti> sfllaw: didn't I? sorry
[02:53] <pitti> sfllaw: ah, that was a misunderstanding; I set it back
[02:53] <sfllaw> Thanks.
[03:22] <seb128> is there an easy way to test if a bug is a pam one?
[03:22] <seb128> like https://launchpad.net/bugs/81559
[03:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81559 in gdm "15 character password limit in GNOME login" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
[03:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: try if it works from the console, using login?
[03:24] <Mithrandir> my password is > 15 chars, though
[03:25] <seb128> a 20 chars password works fine on my laptop as well
[03:32] <saispo> anyone work on ubuntu-installer, i have a question about repository inclusion, i try to include universe, but not working...
[03:38] <cjwatson> saispo: preseed 'd-i apt-setup/universe boolean true'
[03:39] <cjwatson> saispo: the Canonical distro team is at a work sprint in Oslo at the moment, so please don't get too impatient if it takes a while to get answers this week
[03:41] <newz2000> Hey, how prominent should the DVD releases be on the download page?
[03:41] <newz2000> Do we want to encourage people to get those, or would we rather them get the CDs?
[03:42] <ogra> newz2000, thats rather a question for elmo :)
[03:43] <newz2000> ogra: because of bandwidth/mirror issues?
[03:43] <ogra> yep
[03:43] <ogra> DVDs are significantly bigger
[03:43] <newz2000> well, Znarl and I were discussing it and were curious how the devs felt about supporting the DVD release
[03:43] <ogra> and often not mirrored
[03:44] <Znarl> ogra : Besides bandwidth/mirror issues, is there any other reason users should be discouraged from downloading DVDs?
[03:44] <ogra> promoting them would put more load on the DC
[03:44] <Mithrandir> newz2000: they're supported, but clients have trouble downloading them, they're about 8x bigger than a CD image, etc so I don't think we want to promote them very much.
[03:44] <cjwatson> ogra: if the sysadmins are happy with that, it's their decision. I'm sure Znarl is competent to judge
[03:44] <cjwatson> the other problem with DVDs is that they aren't tested very well
[03:45] <newz2000> cjwatson: that's the key point
[03:45] <Mithrandir> Znarl: some clients aren't able to download files bigger than 2GB.
[03:45] <cjwatson> we build them because they're frequently requested, and they're useful as physically-portable package archives if nothing else (as well as installation images)
[03:45] <ogra> well, i'm surely the wrong person to ask here, i'm fighting to keep CDs for edubuntu users  ... my userbase sits in countrys where you only get bad dialup bandwith and often no DVD writers
[03:45] <ogra> (often not even readers)
[03:46] <newz2000> So for best user experience, the CD is the choice, because the DVDs are not as rigorously tested (and downloading/burning them is more difficult)
[03:46] <newz2000> ?? (that was a question)
[03:46] <cjwatson> definitely
[03:46] <ogra> right
[03:47] <newz2000> ok, that's good to know. If that changes, would someone tell me? I'm going to de-emphasize the download DVD links
[03:47] <Znarl> Anyone want to guess when that may change in the future?  When the DVDs will become more popular?
[03:47] <fabbione> Znarl: when Canonical will ship free HD-DVD and Blueray burners to everybody? ;)
[03:48] <newz2000> fabbione: OK, well, I think I"m going to need one of those for testing purposes... also a HD LCD TV.
[03:48] <zul> fabbione: soon i hope :)
[03:49] <Znarl> Right now mirrors are discouraged from mirroring DVDs, there's no rsync modules for it, no instructions.  Just thinking if that may need to change in future.
[03:53] <Mithrandir> fabbione: they're a bit expensive still, but not that bad.   About 650.
[03:53] <seb128> kwwii: gtk-icon-sizes="panel-menu=16,16:panel=16,16:gtk-menu=16,16:gtk-large-toolbar=16,16:gtk-button=16,16"
[03:54] <seb128> kwwii: to copy to .gtkrc-2.0, workaround for your toolbar icon problem, let me know if that works for you
[03:59] <Mez> cjwatson, is there a ML (or central email) for the CC?
[04:00] <elmo> Mez: community-council@lists.ubuntu.com
[04:00] <Mez> elmo, cheers
[04:03] <cypher1> seb128, can you pls again tell me the email address i have to notify if i am interested in working a particular spec
[04:04] <seb128> cypher1: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[04:05] <Mez> seb128, surely -discuss ?
[04:05] <cypher1> seb128, thanks
[04:05] <Mez> cypher1, that should be ubuntu-devel-discuss I think (unless you're an ubuntu dev already ? )
[04:05] <cypher1> Mez, i am new to ubuntu devel
[04:06] <Mez> cypher1, then it'll be ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
[04:06] <cypher1> Mez, i will sent to -discuss.. thanks
[04:06] <kwwii> seb128: apparently not :-(
[04:07] <seb128> Mez: works fine for me with gedit by example
[04:07] <seb128> Mez: if you want to work on a spec better to mail ubuntu-devel
[04:08] <Mez> seb128, but surely - if it's a read only list ?
[04:08] <seb128> Mez: that's not notice devels you are working on, not to discuss between contributor
[04:08] <seb128> Mez: no, or people could not post on it
[04:08] <seb128> that's a moderated list
[04:08] <Mez> seb128,that's what I meant. ..
[04:08] <Mithrandir> stuff is moderated through once in a while, though
[04:09] <cypher1> i sent to ubuntu-devel-discuss.. hope its ok..
[04:09] <kwwii> seb128: it does seem to make some icons smaller, but not all icons in a toolbar in one program
[04:09] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yeah... well.. still too pricy for my wallet
[04:09] <Mez> Mithrandir, ah ... lol - I thought it was aruto-rejected ;)
[04:10] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you get free DVD burners if you buy a hot dog or fries in a shop. though.
[04:11] <Treenaks> I've only been waiting since breezy :P
[04:11] <fabbione> Mithrandir: "can I have a BigMac DVD Menu please with big fries and 2 cheese burgers?"
[04:11] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yes, just about it.
[04:11] <fabbione> heh
[04:13] <ogra> Treenaks, and then your life would be so empty ... nothing to complain about ... we cant be that evil :)
[04:14] <jdong> can a kind archive admin clear backports NEW queue please? if it's already been done, sorry in advance for the noise
[04:15] <Treenaks> ogra: but it's a LaptopTestingTeam laptop! :)
[04:16] <ogra> Treenaks, so you can go on to test it eternally, isnt that great ! ;)
[04:17] <Treenaks> ogra: But.. but... :'(
[04:17] <Treenaks> ;)
[04:17] <ogra> (i totally agree btw ... new X drivers would be nice)
[04:17] <Treenaks> ogra: #20283 if you care ;)
[04:17] <ogra> i think i looked at it plenty of times :)
[04:17] <Treenaks> *kicks bot* bug 20283
[04:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "[fgl v5000]  really bad sync" [Unknown,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/20283
[04:18] <gnomefreak> are we keeping xorg at the version it is for feisty? i figured X updates would have happened already i only saw a couple of X merges
[04:18] <ogra> i'd love ati 3D support for my ATI Radeon XPRESS 200M .... but you simply cant have everything 
[04:19] <Treenaks> ogra: I just want it to set its modes properly.. the rest is OK already :)
[04:20] <sfllaw> Riddell: Got any time?
[04:20] <Riddell> sfllaw: always for you
[04:20] <fabbione> gnomefreak: you are welcome to merge the packages....
[04:21] <gnomefreak> fabbione: wish i could i never got the hang of merging. i just wasnt sure if we were keeping it the same :(
[04:21] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: nag, nag.  When can I get my bug texts?
[04:36] <bddebian> heya
[04:44] <saispo> cjwatson: ok, thanks for the information
[04:49] <sfllaw> Mithrandir: Where's my libc6 2.3.6-0ubuntu20.1 in dapper-proposed?
[04:49] <fabbione> sfllaw: being removed... that's not the one you need to check
[04:49] <fabbione> you want 20.3 that's building
[04:49] <sfllaw> That's what I mean.
[04:50] <fabbione> it's building..
[04:53] <crimsun> seb128: Is it feasible for us to update libgpod to 0.4.2? (changes noted at http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=67873&release_id=478662 )
[04:54] <seb128> crimsun: it's planned and on my TODO, there is a bug comment about it already, just lot to do, I'll look at that
[04:54] <crimsun> seb128: ok, thanks, just wanted to prevent duplication of effort :-)
[04:54] <seb128> np
[04:54] <bdmurray> cr3: bug 77835 was not associated with a package.  I set it to the kernel, linux-source-2.6.20 as the system was having trouble rebooting.
[04:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77835 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Feisty Herd 1 installation hangs on reboot" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77835
[04:57] <lifeless> dholbach: - 
[04:57] <lifeless> tree.branch.repository.get_revision(tree.last_revision()).timestamp
[04:59] <dholbach> lifeless: ROCK!
[05:09] <sfllaw> pitti: Bug 59946 is ready for upload to edgy-updates.
[05:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59946 in gnome-system-tools "Admin tools require admin group membership" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/59946
[05:10] <sfllaw> pitti: I will notify the #xubuntu guys.
[05:10] <cjwatson> jdong: I did it this morning after seeing your earlier request; I think you weren't around at the time or I'd have told you, or maybe I just forgot
[05:10] <jdong> cjwatson: ah, ok, I just noticed the packages arriving. Thanks!
[05:11] <cjwatson> bdmurray: yeah, the kernel has some fixups for reboot quirks in particular hardware
[05:11] <cjwatson> probably just needs a bit of extension
[05:13] <bdmurray> cjwatson: that was with Herd 1 would it be different in Herd 2?
[05:16] <cjwatson> bdmurray: probably not particularly
[05:16] <jdong> when is Keybuk around usually?
[05:17] <jdong> or anyone else who can discuss readahead-list
[05:17] <cjwatson> bdmurray: I doubt it's changed much; I added a note to the bug asking for the information you usually need for this particular problem
[05:17] <jdong> "apparent" GNOME startup speed greatly benefits from a 2nd readahead consisting of the login sequence at the end of the bootup
[05:17] <cjwatson> (output of dmidecode, and try reboot=b to see if that fixes it)
[05:18] <jdong> IMO it's benefitial if we do a idle-priority readahead of the GNOME stuff needed to login
[05:19] <cjwatson> jdong: he might be around next week; he had to leave a day or two ago
[05:19] <jdong> ok
[05:22] <mdz> sfllaw: your opinion on bug 81692?
[05:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81692 in malone "Display team emblem on bugs from project contributors" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81692
[05:23] <sfllaw> Hold on, Firefox is stalled.
[05:23] <sfllaw> Installing epiphany.
[05:24] <sfllaw> mdz: I think there is merit to this request.
[05:24] <sfllaw> Do we display all emblems?  Or just a selected list?
[05:24] <cjwatson> mdz: how about the bugzilla.gnome.org points system? that's essentially analogous to log(karma)
[05:24] <cjwatson> and is explicitly intended to serve a similar function
[05:31] <sfllaw> cjwatson: That's a fair assessment.
[05:31] <sfllaw> cjwatson: That way, it's not exclusive to developers.
[05:32] <sfllaw> If only there were some actions that would decrease someone's karma...
[05:32] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: don't we have a bunch of people who're not developers but still members of teams?
[05:33] <sfllaw> Mithrandir: Well yes.  But which teams are useful ones to display?
[05:33] <sfllaw> Do we have to maintain this list?
[05:33] <sfllaw> I don't object, but that sounds like annoying work that we'd forget to do.
[05:34] <Mithrandir> the only risk I see with putting all of them there is some people will create bogus teams to get more emblems.
[05:34] <seb128> the log(karma) idea looks like a good one
[05:36] <cjwatson> sfllaw: "waiting"
[05:36] <cjwatson> karma should be displayed as log(karma) anyway
[05:37] <cjwatson> if it is already, it should be displayed as log(log(karma))
[05:38] <Treenaks> ( karma mod max(karma).. just to annoy people ;) )
[05:38] <mdz> cjwatson: I think that teams offer us the chance to do much better than a questionable quantitative guess
[05:38] <mdz> sfllaw: in my proposal, I said that only teams which were relevant to the product or distro context made sense to display
[05:38] <sfllaw> mdz: I have no objection to either scheme.
[05:38] <mdz> so e.g., ubuntu-qa, ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-core-dev in our case
[05:38] <sfllaw> mdz: Perhaps _both_ would be useful to some degree.
[05:38] <mdz> all of which I think would be very helpful
[05:38] <seb128> well, team give one information
[05:38] <seb128> there is a difference of competence and activity between qa people though
[05:39] <saispo> hi seb128 :)
[05:39] <mdz> I don't think activity means much
[05:39] <mdz> in terms of this proposal
[05:39] <seb128> right
[05:39] <seb128> the point system is complementary
[05:39] <mdz> agreed
[05:39] <Mithrandir> in some cases, other teams might be relevant, like if answer a backport or sync request, I do it as a member of ubuntu-archive.
[05:40] <mdz> Mithrandir: that's one that is (or will be?) tied to the distro in launchpad as well
[05:40] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, I misread your list as an exhaustive list.  When it wasn't, disregard my comment.
[05:40] <jdong> is there anyone here who deals with ia64....
[05:41] <jdong>   libsmjs-dev: Depends: libmozjs-dev but it is not going to be installed
[05:41] <jdong> ^^ a buildd spewed that back at me...
[05:41] <mdz> Mithrandir: you and simon both did; I wonder if I should rewrite it more clearly
[05:41] <Mithrandir> jdong: looking
[05:41] <mdz> I added punctuation
[05:41] <jdong> Mithrandir: apparently it's because xulrunner FTBFS'ed on ia64
[05:42] <jdong> Mithrandir: is it possible to initiate a rebuild once that situation is corrected without having to reupload?
[05:42] <jdong> only ia64 is affected, all the important arches built fine :D
[05:42] <Mithrandir> jdong: yes, it's called a give-back
[05:43] <jdong> how does the whole give-back thing work?
[05:44] <Mithrandir> jdong: I click a button, the buildd tries to build the package again.
[05:44] <jdong> Mithrandir: ha cool :D magical
[05:44] <cjwatson> mdz: bugzilla.gnome.org has stuff like (points: 5) and (developer, points: 27) which I think is the sort of level of information we should be aiming for
[05:45] <Mithrandir> anything which is in dep-wait state gets retried automatically, anything which ftbfs-ed because of uninstallability needs to be given-back by hand.
[05:45] <Mithrandir> once in a while, we give-back everything and hope it works itself out.
[05:45] <cjwatson> mdz: because in addition to whether they're a developer or not, it's useful to know if somebody is an experienced bug reporter or somebody who just showed up
[05:45] <mdz> cjwatson: right.  the 'developer' part of that is simple in Launchpad, while the points are not :-)
[05:46] <jdong> Mithrandir: out of curiousity how long does it take to rebuild everything :)
[05:46] <cjwatson> sure it is, we have something that's essentially identical to the points thing
[05:46] <Mithrandir> jdong: a full archive rebuild is about a week, iirc.
[05:46] <mdz> cjwatson: karma is so not what we want!
[05:46] <cjwatson> the units are just bonkers, but they can be converted by simple mathematics
[05:46] <cjwatson> karma is only wrong because it's so massive, surely
[05:46] <elmo> cjwatson: no it also has bad bias problems
[05:46] <jdong> Mithrandir: wow; has that been done yet given the DT_GNU_HASH thing probably needs a rebuild to take effect?
[05:46] <elmo> cjwatson: the support and spec tracker are massively overweighted in particular
[05:47] <elmo> Mithrandir: that's main
[05:47] <elmo> well that's main with one buildd per arch - we don't have recent (if any) figures for a full archive rebuild
[05:47] <Mithrandir> elmo: oh, ok.
[05:48] <elmo> jdong: and we don't rebuild the world on demand because it breaks mirrors and makes our users hate us
[05:48] <Mithrandir> elmo: I thought it was roughly what our rebuild tests took.
[05:48] <jdong> probably from changing statuses on backports tickets
[05:48] <elmo> Mithrandir: we only rebuild test main
[05:48] <jdong> elmo: I can imagine :)
[05:48] <cjwatson> elmo: true
[05:48] <Mithrandir> elmo: ok.  I imagined we did *, but apparently not.
[05:48] <cjwatson> I guess we can always click through to the karma if we care
[05:48] <cjwatson> (talked with mdz offline)
[05:49] <jdong> but is everything in feisty to be rebuilt for dt_gnu_hash?
[05:49] <cjwatson> no
[05:49] <jdong> or has the important stuff already been handled :)
[05:49] <cjwatson> there have been various proposals for a rebuild for certain gcc problems
[05:49] <cjwatson> *if* a rebuild happens at all, it'll be because of that, not for extra features
[05:50] <jdong> Mithrandir: can you also try to shed some light on why my avidemux ftbfs'ed on 3 arches?
[05:50] <jdong> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avidemux/1:2.3.0-0.0ubuntu2
[05:50] <jdong> I cannot reproduce the error in a pbuilder
[05:50] <jdong> and it seems to have breezed past that step on two pbuilders
[05:50] <jdong> arches*
[05:51] <Mithrandir> ia64, same problem
[05:51] <jdong> yeah, but i386 puzzled me the most
[05:52] <pitti> mvo: debdiff looks good, bug 81429
[05:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81429 in app-install-data-commercial "Please verify opera and realplayer on edgy-proposed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81429
[05:52] <jdong> mv: cannot stat `t-es.gmo': No such file or directory
[05:52] <jdong> those kind of errors, that is
[05:52] <jdong> and why they didn't happen on the other arches or inside my pbuilders
[05:53] <mvo> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[05:53] <Mithrandir> jdong: amd64 and i386 failure modes are the same.  Unsure what the underlying cause is from just looking at the build log
[05:58] <kylem> http://librarian.launchpad.net/5900582/10_radeon_fix_agp_fastwrite.diff heh
[05:59] <LaserJock> cjwatson and mdz: the Ubuntu Packaging Guide also is a good resource for UbuntuDevelopment
[05:59] <mdz> LaserJock: can you follow up by email to the list?  I'm packing up here
[06:00] <LaserJock> k
[06:00] <gpocentek> pitti: thanks for the x-s-t upload
[06:00] <mdz> thanks
[06:03] <pitti> gpocentek: your're welcome; thanks for the fast preparation and testing
[06:03] <gpocentek> :)
[06:16] <milli> keescook: I don't see that CVE-2007-0493 and CVE-2007-0494 are available on cve.mitre.org yet...  has it only been pre-released to vendors?
[06:17] <milli> lamont: stop telling everybody how to exploit HP's name servers!  ;-)
[06:17] <lamont> milli: ssssshhhhhH!!!!!
[06:17] <keescook> milli: yeah, that came from through the vendor contacts, but they'll be public when they show up.  I'm not sure how quickly the CVE lists are updated.
[06:18] <milli> keescook: then I assume CERT is going to produce something shortly too.
[06:19] <elmo> those CVEs are public
[06:19] <elmo> I saw them on NISTs RSS FEED
[06:19] <elmo> err, 'feed' even
[06:20] <milli> elmo: k, ty.  They are not posted nor searchable on cve.mitre.org yet.
[06:52] <jdong> Mithrandir: would you be ok with trying a rebuild and see if the failure is consistent?
[06:53] <jdong> Mithrandir: I am at a loss as to why that happens... I must be losing my sanity
[06:56] <jdong> nixternal: don't make me post a reiser4 howto on the wiki based on my tinkering yesterday!
[06:56] <nixternal> haha, watch it now, Reiser is in court these days, so I might be very well frightened
[06:57] <jdong> nixternal: the machine was named wifenpieces
[06:57] <nixternal> hahahaha
[06:57] <nixternal> jdong: and that isn't German
[06:58] <jdong> nixternal: wifenpiecen
[06:59] <zul> the reiser jokes are getting lame :)
[07:05] <jdong> zul: I know... I don't make that many anymore
[07:05] <jdong> zul: so when will feisty have reiser4 patch? :D
[07:06] <jdong> (ok, that reiser joke is still not old)
[07:06] <zul> jdong: never
[07:06] <jdong> zul: haha :)
[07:08] <zul> jdong: you think im kidding
[07:08] <jdong> zul: I don't think you're kidding.
[07:09] <jdong> is there a command-line option for pbuilder for passing arguments to pbuilder-satisfydepends.pl?
[07:09] <jdong> (me is looking for a way to trigger bypassing version checking on build-deps)
[07:11] <jdong> nvm, found it
[07:12] <zul> hey ajmitch 
[07:57] <lool> Hi there, I wonder whether Ubuntu folks looked into the weird .desktop file "vulnerability" where one can trick nautilus into displaying a .desktop file as a regular image and launch anything: <https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=238503> (seen on freedesktop's xdg)
[07:58] <lool> It seems this is a very old bug which doesn't affect Xfce nor KDE, and I don't think it was fixed in GNOME at all
[07:58] <keescook> lool: I haven't read the bug yet, but I'll look into it.
[07:59] <lool> keescook: Great; the thing is I don't know where to start
[08:00] <lool> keescook: The discussion on xdg brings a couple of interesting points, thread
[08:00] <lool> argh

[08:04] <keescook> lool: I'd agree, that's a security problem.  I'll track it; thanks for the heads-up.
[08:30] <juliux> hi
[08:30] <juliux> is it a knowing bug that the feisty isos are not working on core duo pcs?
[08:46] <juliux> http://www.transtec.de/D/D/products/personal_computer/pc/mini_pc.html?mod=prod&name=SY600MTA45-A this is the pc i test it
[09:12] <siretart> is there somewhere an howto howto debug usplash scripts? e.g. how to start usplash manually in a booted system?
[09:13] <sladen> 'usplash'
[09:14] <siretart> sladen: it complains on a missing /dev/fb0. how to create that?
[09:15] <juliux> hi siretart 
[09:15] <siretart> huhu juliux 
[09:15] <sladen> siretart: wah.  Do you not have a framebuffer?
[09:15] <juliux> siretart, very strange errors here with feisty on a intel core duo
[09:16] <siretart> sladen: this is on amd64, and in principle, usplash works for me
[09:19] <siretart> juliux: huch?
[09:19] <juliux> siretart, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/81720 
[09:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81720 in linux-source-2.6.20 "edubuntu feisty install iso not working on intel core duo cpu" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[09:20] <juliux> siretart, it is the computer we get for free for the expos
[09:20] <siretart> juliux: oh, that's bad
[09:20] <siretart> juliux: who's sponsoring?
[09:20] <juliux> siretart, transtec;)
[09:20] <juliux> siretart, also two thinclients
[09:21] <siretart> juliux: cool
[09:21] <juliux> siretart, and i will use this also as a testing system for edubuntu
[09:21] <siretart> sladen: oh, on my laptop, it works. seems that nvidia
[09:21] <siretart> is interfereing
[09:22] <siretart> juliux: bad that it doesn't boot :(
[09:22] <juliux> siretart, i will try a upgrade from edgy
[09:24] <davmor2> siretart there is a big bug in 64bit with nvidia cards :(
[09:25] <siretart> davmor2: do you have a bugno for reading about it?
[09:26] <davmor2> hang on I'll get it
[09:28] <davmor2> siretart Bug 32389 is one
[09:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32389 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17 "[upstream]  nvidia-glx doesn't restore state on NV35/NV36 cards. Causes random mess on screen or system hang." [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/32389
[09:29] <davmor2> Bug 56587 is two
[09:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56587 in usplash "[edgy]  usplash segfaults" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56587
[09:30] <siretart> sladen: okay, usplash works in principle now, I can use PROGRESS to set to progress bar. any idea why usplash_write "TEXT foo" doesn't print foo for me?
[09:30] <davmor2> you kinda get the drift anyway.  I personally got onto nvidia about it and they now have it listed as an official bug with their developers but it's if or when they do something about it
[09:32] <siretart> davmor2: thanks
[09:33] <siretart> davmor2: but I doubt this is my problem. here it seems there isn't a /dev/fb0
[09:33] <davmor2> siretart there are others and it effects more than just the nv35/36 cards but I can't remeber which exactly.
[09:34] <davmor2> siretart that's right dev/fb0 is the framebuffer that is screwy with these cards in 64bit but not 32bit try a 32 bit live it'll work fine 64bit though and it throws it's dummy out the pram :)
[09:36] <Chipzz> davmor2: no offence meant, but a little punctuation wouldn't hurt you ;)
[09:36] <siretart> davmor2: interesting...
[09:37] <jlawler> Does anyone know of an easy way to do remote package management (preferably on multiple simultaneous computers)?
[09:37] <siretart> davmor2: I'm currently rather trying to fix cryptsetup with usplash. working on my laptop now :/
[09:38] <LaserJock> jlawler: ssh? :-)
[09:38] <siretart> jlawler: clusterssh, cfengine, puppet, choose your poison ;)
[09:39] <davmor2> chipzz:  Dyslexia means I spend most of my time spell checking, forgive me if my lack of reading means my grammer goes to pot.  I tend to write as it is in my head which means it makes sense to me, sorry.
[09:42] <davmor2> Thank god for in-line spell checking :)
[09:42] <jlawler> Aight, the reason I asked about remote package management is because I have been thinking about what it would take to roll out and actively administer >100 ubuntu desktops.  It seems like there are more than a few tools that are missing to facilitate this, and I was trying to figure out what I'm missing.
[09:43] <jlawler> I don't know if puppet or cfengine will quite meet my requirements
[09:44] <siretart> jlawler: for managing cluster > 100 nodes, you'll have more problems than just installing packages. have a look at the cfengine tutorials
[09:45] <siretart> jlawler: we're using it at our university for managing the students computers (about 120 debian nodes, I think)
[09:46] <jlawler> siretart:  I hadn't seen cfengine before, and I'm planning on taking a look at it.  The reason I'm bringing this up in -devel is I'm debating writing a new program to tackle this.  However, I don't want to reinvent the wheel...
[09:48] <torkel> jlawler: http://www.informatik.uni-koeln.de/fai/
[09:51] <jlawler> torkel:  does fai handle updating specific packages, or does it require you to reimage an entire node?
[09:53] <enrico> siretart: I got a private reply: the guy that knows things better is in vacation until sunday
[09:54] <torkel> jlawler: they have something called softupdate, though I never tried it so I don't know how well it works
[09:54] <enrico> siretart: I could go on myself but I'd prefer to wait for him, since I don't know very well what are the news with the other modules in the pakcage
[09:55] <jlawler> So does this seem like a redundant piece of software, or something that would fill a genuine need?
[09:55] <siretart> enrico: okay.
[09:56] <siretart> enrico: I'd love to have a usable bzr-builddeb, so perhaps I'd have to upload some preprelease. I need to talk with james about that
[09:56] <Chipzz> davmor2: oh, my apologies. didn't know. never mind I said that then.
[09:56] <juliux> siretart, with a upgrade from edgy to herd2 the system boots
[09:56] <enrico> siretart: I'd love to have it around as well
[09:57] <siretart> juliux: yay. installer broken! :(
[09:57] <enrico> siretart: lately I keep producing nice cool things that need that package
[09:57] <siretart> enrico: in debian, the problem is rather the package stuck in NEW, and a too old bzr in unstable
[09:57] <siretart> enrico: wow. nice to hear :)
[09:58] <enrico> siretart: Just blogging a new one now
[09:58] <davmor2> chipzz: it's okay it doesn't bother me.  It's not till some one points it out that I realise I've done it.  In my head I see the punctuation but it doesn't always get transferred from my head.  No biggy though.
[09:59] <juliux> siretart, so package is debian-installer?
[10:00] <siretart> juliux: most probably not, but I'm not sure how to diagnose the problem. do you know where it actually hangs?
[10:00] <juliux> siretart, after the keyboard decetion the installer loads some drivers and then is hangs up
[10:01] <siretart> juliux: via alternate or via live installer?
[10:01] <juliux> siretart, install cd from edubuntu
[10:01] <siretart> juliux: then I'd file against debian-installer. colin can reassign it if necessary
[10:01] <juliux> siretart, thxs
[10:11] <siretart> how to flush the keyboard input buffer from a shell script, suitable for early userspace?
[10:11] <siretart> can I use stty for this?
[11:03] <whadar> what tool do you use for feisty to monitor file access?
[11:04] <exobuzz> is there any plan to make knetworkconf profiles actually work for feisty? they were broken on edgy and still seem broken on feisty https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeadmin/+bug/73788
[11:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73788 in kdeadmin "Network profiles completely broken" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[11:57] <pochu> what do you think about bug 81751?
[11:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81751 in ekiga "remove ekiga from default ubuntu-installation" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81751
[11:57] <pochu> It talks about changind defautls (changing a program)
[11:58] <caci> never used it, but isn't it supposed to be a premier app on the gnome desktop
[12:10] <Amaranth> pochu: can telepathy do SIP?
[12:10] <pochu> Amaranth: SIP?
[12:11] <Amaranth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol
[12:11] <Amaranth> standard VoIP stuff
[12:11] <dsas> Amaranth: I don't know if it does it yet, but I think Nokia were sponsoring hacking on it.
[12:11] <Amaranth> telepathy is the end goal but it's not quite ready yet
[12:12] <pochu> Amaranth: so I leave the bug open, right?