[12:24] <|KingFish|> hello everyone
[12:25] <|KingFish|> anyone home?
[12:25] <Adri2000> hi |KingFish| 
[12:25] <|KingFish|> hey adri
[12:25] <|KingFish|> i'm seeking some help with my kubuntu
[12:25] <|KingFish|> installed kubuntu 6.06 last week
[12:25] <|KingFish|> first time i've installed linux since a way old version of mandrake
[12:25] <Adri2000> did you try #kubuntu ?
[12:26] <|KingFish|> room was busy but nobody helped me
[12:26] <|KingFish|> it's not a kubuntu specific question i have though
[12:26] <|KingFish|> has nothing to do with kde desktop
[12:27] <Adri2000> #ubuntu-motu is not a support channel
[12:27] <|KingFish|> ok, sorry for the bother
[12:27] <|KingFish|> thanks
[12:27] <Adri2000> np
[12:27] <afflux> review me please :) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4200 -- thank yoy
[12:28] <afflux> *you
[12:30] <Adri2000> afflux: version should be 20061204-0ubuntu1 and distro feisty
[12:31] <afflux> ups.
[12:31] <pirast> Adri2000, wargh
[12:32] <Adri2000> afflux: src/Makefile and README.html are modified without using a patch system and that's bad
[12:32] <afflux> src/Makefile contains a note about this, README.html wasn't on purpose
[12:34] <Adri2000> afflux: I see +++ sauerbraten-20061204/debian/patches/01_makefile.dpatch but also +++ sauerbraten-20061204/src/Makefile
[12:34] <Adri2000> don't change sauerbraten-20061204/src/Makefile and put all of the changes you want in the patch
[12:35] <Adri2000> same for README.html
[12:36] <somerville32> Adri2000, Are you using grep?
[12:36] <afflux> Adri2000: yes. I had to change a dependency in the makefile because the make clean process (which is run by debuild -S -sa) would have created a makefile (which would have been added to the diff.gz)
[12:37] <Adri2000> somerville32: currently I'm reading the diff.gz in firefox :)
[12:37] <somerville32> Adri2000, ah, ;] 
[12:39] <pirast> could anyone please review zatacka on revu? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4209
[12:39] <pirast> it's a new upstream release
[12:41] <Adri2000> pirast: version: 0.1.6dfsg1-0ubuntu1, distro: feisty
[12:41] <pirast> ugh..
[12:43] <afflux> extreme stupid question: where to set the distro?
[12:43] <Adri2000> in the changelog
[12:43] <somerville32> afflux: changelog
[12:43] <afflux> doh.
[12:43] <pirast> Adri2000, uploaded, thanks
[12:43] <afflux> instead of the "unstable"?
[12:43] <Adri2000> package (version) distro; urgency
[12:43] <afflux> alright.
[12:43] <Adri2000> afflux: yes
[12:45] <Adri2000> afflux: debian/dirs is probably useless
[12:52] <pirast> Adri2000, any other suggestions to zatacka?
[12:53] <Adri2000> looking
[12:54] <Adri2000> pirast: you added dh_install --list-missing ?
[12:54] <pirast> Adri2000, yup
[12:54] <pirast> because I want to install the .desktop file
[12:54] <pirast> via zatacka.install
[12:55] <somerville32> Question: If I upload a version of a package that is newer then what is in debian, do I put the debian version as 0?
[12:55] <Adri2000> pirast: ok
[12:56] <Adri2000> somerville32: yes
[12:56] <somerville32> Adri2000, And, like the same with merges, make minimal changes?
[12:57] <Adri2000> yes, or forward your changes to debian
[12:58] <somerville32> Adri2000, I should note that I'm doing this instead of merging. Is there anything else that I should do special?
[12:59] <Adri2000> why are you doing this instead of merging?
[12:59] <Adri2000> pirast: I think zatacka if fine
[12:59] <Adri2000> s/if/is/
[12:59] <somerville32> Adri2000, Debian package fails to build
[12:59] <pirast> Adri2000, great :-)
[01:00] <Adri2000> somerville32: name of the package?
[01:00] <somerville32> Adri2000, xfce4-wavelan-plugin
[01:00] <somerville32> Adri2000, I've already conferred with gpocentek
[01:00] <somerville32> Adri2000, I just want to make sure I do it right all right :)
[01:01] <Adri2000> yeah, nothing special to do, version 0.5.3-0ubuntu1, "new upstream release" and whatever else you change
[01:02] <somerville32> Perfect.
[01:03] <Adri2000> somerville32: hmm, but I don't see any FTBFS, at least on i386 on the buildd
[01:03] <pirast> Adri2000, thanks.. sorry I am tired so I forgot to say ;-)
[01:04] <Adri2000> np :p
[01:04] <somerville32> Adri2000, It failed for bbdebian, gpocentek, and myself
[01:04] <somerville32> Adri2000, Did you try building it?
[01:05] <Adri2000> ah ok, in a feisty chroot, I was looking at the debian buildd
[01:05] <somerville32> :)
[01:05] <Adri2000> I'm trying to build it
[01:09] <somerville32> imbrandon, Any updates? :)
[01:09] <Simon80> anyone want to review?
[01:09] <somerville32> Simon80, Depends on what it is ;] 
[01:09] <Simon80> lol
[01:09] <Simon80> can you? it's painless
[01:10] <somerville32> I can review but not advocate it for ya
[01:10] <Simon80> oh
[01:10] <somerville32> Link?
[01:10] <Simon80> don't bother then
[01:10] <Simon80> it's been reviewed
[01:10] <somerville32> Pfft.
[01:10] <somerville32> Oh :)
[01:10] <Simon80> it's the advocation I need
[01:10] <somerville32> Simon80, New package?
[01:10] <Simon80> logitech-applet
[01:10] <somerville32> Oh, right
[01:11] <Simon80> yeah
[01:11] <somerville32> Whats the link anyhow?
[01:11] <Simon80> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4208
[01:12] <Adri2000> somerville32: FTBFS... but why do you believe it won't FTBFS if you package it yourself?
[01:14] <somerville32> Adri2000, gpocentek led me to believe that
[01:15] <Adri2000> ok, try, we'll see :)
[01:16] <somerville32> Adri2000, I'm going to upload 0.5.3+svn2458
[01:16] <somerville32> :)
[01:16] <Adri2000> ah, that's different
[01:17] <somerville32> Ok
[01:17] <somerville32> Adri2000, How so? :)
[01:17] <somerville32> ie. What do I have to do differently?
[01:18] <Adri2000> no, I meant that's different from uploading 0.5.3, and it may work better and not FTBS :)
[01:18] <Adri2000> +F
[01:19] <somerville32> :D
[01:19] <coNP> ! FTBFS
[01:19] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about FTBFS - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:19] <Adri2000> !google define:FTBFS
[01:19] <chillywilly> Results for define:FTBFS on Google:
[01:19] <chillywilly> --
[01:19] <Adri2000> ahah: <ubotu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[01:20] <coNP> Adri2000: you are a human, what does FTBFS mean? :)
[01:20] <Adri2000> coNP: FTBFS stands for Fail(s|ed) To Build From Source
[01:20] <coNP> oh, thanks
[01:25] <ash211> I'm trying to build an amarok package with an extra compile options but don't have debuild
[01:26] <ash211> what should I install to get it?
[01:26] <coNP> ash211: devscripts
[01:26] <afflux> Adri2000: Any idea about my makefile issue in sauerbraten? Problem is, that make clean would create a makefile in the debuild -S -sa process which would also go to the diff.gz.
[01:26] <ash211> coNP: thanks
[01:28] <coNP> yw, ash211 
[01:29] <Adri2000> afflux: it's ok to edit the Makefile for that, but not directly, use dpatch
[01:30] <afflux> the problem with dpatch is that these patches aren't applied while debuild -S -sa but later when building the binary package. It's too late.
[01:31] <Adri2000> ahhh, yes, you're right
[01:31] <TheMuso> afflux: Are you using debhelper?
[01:31] <afflux> yes
[01:32] <TheMuso> I don't see why you couldn't patch the relevant files before you clean, and after you clean, unpatch them.
[01:32] <TheMuso> But I may be missing something here, coming in half way.
[01:32] <Adri2000> can't you just remove the Makefile in the clean rule in debian/rules?
[01:33] <afflux> huh, this doesn't sound that bad. i gonna try.
[01:34] <TheMuso> Does the package use configure/make/make install to build?
[01:35] <afflux> the package contains a source and a library-source (which is used for static-linking). the library source uses configure, the main source only uses a makefile.
[01:36] <TheMuso> Thats... um... a little messy.
[01:36] <afflux> definetly.
[01:37] <TheMuso> afflux: If you have an interest in the package, over time you may want to work with upstream to change that.
[01:38] <afflux> i'll contact them, but not now... going to bed now.
[01:38] <afflux> thank you for your help.
[01:48] <ademan> ugh, does anyone have a place where i can upload files for the time being? my webserver seems to have locked me out (i wonder if my account expired)
[01:48] <ademan> (specifically i want to upload a orig.tar.gz and a diff and a *.dsc)
[01:49] <LaserJock> revu? ;-)
[01:49] <ademan> hey, actually scratch that, maybe their server was down
[01:49] <ademan> LaserJock: i'd have to sepukku again if i uploaded this pile of crap to revu :-p
[01:49] <ademan> i still haven't fixed the libs into /usr/share yet
[01:49] <ademan> its actually why i need to upload it
[01:49] <ademan> cause i can't figure out where its happening
[01:57] <Simon80> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4211
[01:57] <Simon80> when's the freeze deadline anyway?
[01:58] <Adri2000> FeatureFreeze, see FeistyReleaseSchedule
[01:58] <Simon80> ah, I have more time than I thought
[01:58] <Simon80> but still, please review it :) it's done
[01:58] <LaserJock> yeah, I'd rather people focus on merges and syncs right now
[01:58] <LaserJock> we have more time for REVU after UVF
[02:01] <ademan> does something have to be submitted to REVU before the feature freeze? or approved before it?
[02:01] <ademan> to make it into fiesty that is
[02:01] <Adri2000> approved
[02:04] <LaserJock> should be *at least* uploaded to Universe before
[02:04] <somerville32> Do merges and updated merges have equal priority or do merges have greater priority then updated merges (or vice versa)?
[02:04] <LaserJock> merges have higher priority
[02:04] <LaserJock> update merges means we've already merged the package once this release
[02:05] <TheMuso> So really we should get the outstanding merges done first.
[02:05] <LaserJock> it's possible that packages need to be approved by ubuntu-archive by FF to make it in
[02:05] <LaserJock> usually they make a push to get the queue cleaned by the freeze
[02:09] <TheMuso> Wow. Either merges.ubuntu.com is really slow, or the file I am fetching with grab-merge.sh is taking AAAGES
[02:09] <TheMuso> cause its big
[02:09] <LaserJock> some of them are
[02:25] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
[02:26] <Hobbsee> hey LaserJock!
[02:26] <somerville32> Hiya Hobbsee and LaserJock
[02:26] <Hobbsee> hey somerville32 
[02:26] <LaserJock> hi Cody
[02:28] <TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee!
[02:28] <Hobbsee> hey TheMuso!
[02:39] <Simon80> LaserJock: my package isn't in universe yet, that's why I need it reviewed
[02:42] <LaserJock> Simon80: I know :-)
[02:42] <Simon80> ah
[02:42] <Simon80> reviewed before UVF* I mean
[02:42] <LaserJock> I'm just saying we have more time for REVU than for getting merges/syncs done
[02:42] <Simon80> oh, I see
[02:42] <Simon80> misread that completely
[02:42] <Simon80> wait, no I didn't
[02:42] <Simon80> you said more time for review AFTER UVF
[02:43] <LaserJock> yes
[02:43] <Simon80> but if my package isn't reviewed until then, it can no longer get in, correct?
[02:43] <LaserJock> no
[02:43] <LaserJock> you have until Feature Freeze
[02:43] <LaserJock> which is 2 weeks after UVF for Universe
[02:43] <Simon80> heh, that's the same time
[02:43] <Simon80> oh
[03:27] <crimsun> siretart: ok, thanks!
[03:34] <Hobbsee> siretart: what do i have to do to get an account on REVU, again?
[03:35] <LaserJock> how do you mean?
[03:35] <crimsun> Hobbsee: you have one (you're a member of ubuntu-dev)
[03:37] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: crimsun a shell account?
[03:38] <crimsun> Hobbsee: do you mean a shell acct on tiber?
[03:39] <Hobbsee> crimsun: er, yes.
[03:39] <Hobbsee> sorry :(
[03:39] <crimsun> Hobbsee: oh, ask Reinhard, I presume.
[03:40] <somerville32> Has anyone tried tamil-gtk2im?
[03:40] <somerville32> (for merge)
[03:40] <crimsun> Hobbsee: although any of him, Stefan, Andrew, and Raphael could add you
[03:44] <TheMuso> Is it common for packages.ubuntu.com to be out of date?
[03:44] <crimsun> yes.
[03:44] <TheMuso> Thought as much.,
[03:54] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:55] <LaserJock> hi bddebian 
[03:55] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[04:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81799 in courier "Courier version courier_0.53.3-3ubuntu1 requires merge" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81799
[04:13] <crimsun> ScottK: most of those are acceptable.
[04:13] <crimsun> 0700 is more strict than 0755, so if that's what the Debian source package uses, and there aren't grave bugs open about it, then it's arguably correct.
[04:13] <ScottK> OK.
[04:14] <crimsun> the missing debconf dependency should be corrected, though
[04:14] <ScottK> Will double check BTS (didn't see any first time I looked).  
[04:14] <ScottK> OK.
[04:15] <crimsun> the initscript/LSB interaction should be double-checked, too
[04:15] <superm1> crimsun, did you get to mythtv/mythplugins yesterday?
[04:16] <ScottK> OK.  I'm pretty sure that all existed in the previous package, but will look into it.
[04:17] <crimsun> superm1: no, I've been configuring an three hundred-person engineering lab all yesterday evening and weekend so far, so I've not had much time
[04:17] <bddebian> Wuss :-)
[04:17] <superm1> crimsun, ot a big deal
[04:17] <superm1> crimsun, 300 ppl? thats crazy big
[04:17] <superm1> most of my labs have been <15 people
[04:18] <crimsun> it's huge, and I've been going batty as a result
[04:21] <Simon80> bddebian: thanks for the review :)
[04:21] <superm1> crimsun, would you mind if i tried to get bddebian to look it over in effort to get this made sooner, or did you want to still be the one looking it over?
[04:22] <crimsun> superm1: the more eyes the better
[04:22] <superm1> ok.. bddebian would you like to look over mythtv/mythplugins then?
[04:24] <somerville32> Why does mom sometimes put "Remaining changes:\n -" and other times it doesn't?
[04:25] <LaserJock> what?
[04:25] <LaserJock> I don't think it does ever does it?
[04:26] <somerville32> It does, I swear it : P
[04:30] <TheMuso> Some merges that are listed on the page are older than others. The newer ones have the remaining ubuntu changes thing added in the changelog.
[04:31] <TheMuso> For example, I think you will find that most of the updated merges will have it.
[04:31] <bddebian> superm1: Where are these?
[04:31] <superm1> bzr branches for the debian directories are here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mythtv/+branches, and upstream versions are here:  http://www.debian-multimedia.org/pool/main/m/mythtv/mythtv_0.20-svn20070122.orig.tar.gz & http://www.debian-multimedia.org/pool/main/m/mythplugins/mythplugins_0.20-svn20070122.orig.tar.gz
[04:31] <bddebian> bzr?? WTF? :-)
[04:32] <superm1> hehe
[04:34] <somerville32> superm1, How is the bzr package development coming along?
[04:34] <bddebian> somerville32: Why did you stick wavelan-plugins on REVU?
[04:34] <superm1> somerville32, i haven't touched the packaging for some time, just been needing a motu to look it over 
[04:34] <somerville32> bddebian, For gpocentek 
[04:35] <somerville32> gpocentek, He is going to upload it for me
[04:35] <bddebian> somerville32: Ah, OK
[04:36] <somerville32> bddebian, Want an easy merge? 
[04:36] <somerville32> Oh wait
[04:36] <somerville32> nvm
[04:37] <crimsun> bddebian: want a difficult merge?
[04:37] <crimsun> ;)
[04:37] <bddebian> crimsun: You need something?
[04:37] <crimsun> several. We'll start with sleep, beer, and a life.
[04:37] <crimsun> aside from that, not really.
[04:37] <bddebian> Heh, well I can't help ya there, sorry
[04:38] <bddebian> superm1: I really don't know bzr yet :-(
[04:39] <superm1> bzr pull BRANCHNAME 
[04:39] <superm1> will get you a copy of it
[04:39] <superm1> so for mythtv it will be this
[04:39] <superm1> bzr pull http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mythtv/mythtv/ubuntu
[04:40] <crimsun> I'd think he'd want export instead of pull.
[04:40] <crimsun> oh, n/m me.
[04:40] <somerville32> superm1, You have to branch, not pull
[04:41] <superm1> oh, i've always pulled
[04:41] <superm1> so bzr branch BRANCHNAME
[04:41] <bddebian> Hah, got 3 different answers already, must be good shit
[04:41] <somerville32> superm1, You pull AFTER you branch
[04:41] <somerville32> bddebian, What is the third answer?
[04:41] <bddebian> pull, export, and branch
[04:42] <jdong> ok, I just walked in but....
[04:42] <crimsun> well, it doesn't make sense for bddebian to export, since he doesn't have the repo
[04:42] <jdong> export is not even in the same league of commands as pull/branch
[04:42] <crimsun> superm1: would export.
[04:42] <superm1> okay well whats the difference with pull and branch then?
[04:42] <crimsun> e.g., export ../blah.tar
[04:43] <jdong> crimsun: does export work with a transport url as the branch? ;-)
[04:43] <jdong> superm1: pull is to update an existing branch
[04:43] <superm1> oh pull needs an existing branch
[04:43] <superm1> i see
[04:43] <jdong> superm1: branch (aka clone, get) actually gets it
[04:43] <superm1> then somerville32 is right, "bzr branch LOCATION"
[04:43] <jdong> for the first time
[04:43] <somerville32> haha
[04:44] <jdong> somerville32: whoa, that didn't come out the way I meant it
[04:44] <jdong> somerville32: superm1 interjected my 2-line statement :)
[04:44] <somerville32> hehe
[04:44] <somerville32> ok
[04:44] <superm1> lol 
[04:44] <jdong> yay for bzr
[04:44] <jdong> somerville32: I need it bad... I just rebooted from reiser4 :)
[04:44] <somerville32> hehe
[04:45] <crimsun> jdong: apparently, as of 0.13, yes.
[04:45] <somerville32> crimsun: Btw, the new kernel seems to fix my kernel panic fun
[04:45] <jdong> crimsun: lol :) so in a twisted way it'd kinda work :D
[04:45] <crimsun> * ``bzr export`` allows an optional branch parameter, to export a bzr tree from some other url. For example: ``bzr export bzr.tar.gz http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev`` (Daniel Silverstone)
[04:46] <crimsun> from the 0.13 announcement.
[04:46] <jdong> interesting
[04:46] <jdong> for those who just want the latest pristine sources from a bzr branch
[04:46] <bddebian> superm1: What have you changed from the Debian-multimedia package?
Wow, this bzr branch crap is MUCH faster than wget foo</sarcasm>
[04:49] <jdong> bddebian: *sigh* performance is improving
[04:49] <jdong> with the addition of smart servers
[04:50] <jdong> but for now there is an additional roundtrip for every file in .bzr
[04:50] <jdong> so at minimum it's `find .bzr | wc -l` * latency
[04:51] <bddebian> This is nuts.  I could have downloaded .dsc, .orig.tar.gz, diff.gz and built them by now..
[04:51] <somerville32> I find bzr branch rather quick
[04:51] <somerville32> You can always do a light-weight checkout
[04:51] <somerville32> Which is very quick
[04:52] <jdong> somerville32: a lightweight checkout is a nightmare to work with in the long run
[04:52] <jdong> somerville32: esp. when the other side is across a network transport
[04:53] <crimsun> well, everything's a nightmare on my 56kbps dialup.
[04:53] <crimsun> so I don't really see what y'all are bellyaching 'bout!
[04:53] <bddebian> Uhm, this is a cable modem and it's not even half way done
[04:53] <somerville32> bddebian, The first branch is always the longest
[04:54] <somerville32> But after that, it is pretty quick
[04:54] <bddebian> Jesus and that was just for the Debian dir, not even a tarball?
[04:57] <jdong> bddebian: the first branch takes a long time...
[04:57] <jdong> worst if your ping is really high to their server
[04:57] <bddebian> It doesn't take that long for me to cvs checkout the entire gnumach kernel source or hurd sources
[04:58] <jdong> bddebian: that's because they have various servers that took a poor admin hours and hundreds of grey hairs to set up
[04:58] <jdong> and now you're exaggerating.... or have satellite connection that pings @ 1500ms
[04:59] <bddebian> No I am not.  I can pull an iso that fast.
[05:00] <LaserJock> yep
[05:00] <LaserJock> I did a branch of the doc team bzr repo and it took 1 hr
[05:00] <somerville32> ...
[05:01] <jdong> it'll all get better with smart servers
[05:01] <jdong> that's why the other VCS'es branch so fast
[05:01] <jdong> and for the record it was a LOT slower with weaves
[05:01] <jdong> (the old repo format)
[05:01] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:06] <bddebian> Well I don't want to be a jerk but it better get significantly better or I won't be using it.
[05:08] <TheMuso> Will smart servers allow for easier colaboration between users?
[05:09] <LaserJock> bddebian: it's very good for local revision control
[05:09] <jdong> bddebian: the first pull is the most painful one
[05:09] <LaserJock> I don't use it much for remote work though
[05:09] <jdong> bddebian: subsequent operations will be very fast (incremental)
[05:10] <jdong> and local work is just bliss
[05:10] <jdong> TheMuso: kind of... it provides a simple bzr serve command that can be used to set up makeshift code sharing setups
[05:10] <jdong> without the need to set up an HTTP/FTP or SSH stack
[05:11] <jdong> jdong@jdong-laptop:/tmp$ time bzr export test.tar.gz http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.0.14/
[05:11] <jdong> 
[05:11] <jdong> real    3m56.831s
[05:11] <jdong> branch: real    12m0.656s
[05:11] <jdong> so if you only need one revision, exporting is faster than branching
[05:11] <jdong> good to know :)
[05:12] <LaserJock> does it actually save it as a tarball?
[05:15] <jdong> yes
[05:15] <jdong> it's smart like that
[05:15] <jdong> or you can tell it to export to a directory
[05:15] <jdong> it reacts to what extension you provide as the destination
[05:16] <LaserJock> that'd rather cool
[05:29] <TheMuso> To me, bzr doesn't sound useful in colaborative environments outside of launchpad.
[05:29] <TheMuso> Unless you can set up the user infrastructure to give access to the directories you need for the branches.
[05:29] <TheMuso> via ssh
[05:29] <LaserJock> I like it
[05:29] <LaserJock> because I can drop a .bzr in http and it's all good
[05:30] <LaserJock> but it does take getting used to
[05:30] <TheMuso> I like it too. Easy to work with, sane command set etc.
[05:30] <TheMuso> The ability to just publish repos on http is great I agree.
[05:31] <LaserJock> but yeah, so far most of the collaborative utility I see is with big areas like say LP or sourceforge
[05:31] <Hobbsee> haha @ the quit message
[05:32] <LaserJock> yeah, quite interesting
[05:32] <TheMuso> I have hosting with dreamhost, and while I could set up a project on my webspace with a domain and bzr, I'd have to waste user allocations to allow ssh access for people to push branches.
[05:33] <TheMuso> Whereas their subversion offering doesn't require that you have users allocated from your limit to set up colaboration.
[05:33] <LaserJock> well
[05:33] <LaserJock> but the point of bzr is more individualistic I think
[05:34] <LaserJock> so *each* person should maintain their own branch
[05:34] <LaserJock> so you don't need to allow people to push to your branch
[05:34] <TheMuso> True.
[05:34] <LaserJock> I think it takes a different mentality
[05:35] <LaserJock> I'm not sure which I like better
[05:35] <LaserJock> probably depends on the project
[06:00] <LaserJock> hi minghua 
[06:01] <minghua> Hello LaserJock
[07:31] <ademan> how might i go about making one source package create multiple binary packages?
[07:34] <ademan> obviously debian/control would have multiple packages in it (multiple source and binary?), but what would i do for rules? multiple rules? would i have to sort into different debian/tmp files and whatnot?
[07:36] <LaserJock> ademan: in debian/control there is one section for source then you can have as many binary sections as you want
[07:36] <LaserJock> you only have 1 debian/rules file
[07:37] <ademan> ah, alright, so then i divy the files up into multiple debian/packagename/ dirs?
[07:37] <LaserJock> you can have <binarypackagename>.install to tell which one
[07:37] <ademan> ah
[07:37] <ademan> where might i find a description of this file?
[07:37] <ademan> or an example
[07:37] <LaserJock> you can also have <binarypackagename>,dir etc.
[07:37] <LaserJock> .dir
[07:37] <LaserJock> it's just a file
[07:38] <LaserJock> that lists the item to install and where to install it
[07:38] <ademan> like
[07:38] <LaserJock> ademan: I'd recommend looking at the packaging guide
[07:38] <ademan> MySharedObject.so /usr/lib/MyCrap/  ?
[07:38] <ademan> i did a bit, i suppose it bears looking at it again huh?
[07:38] <LaserJock> usr/lib/MyCrap/ but yeah
[07:39] <ademan> no leading slash?
[07:39] <LaserJock> no
[07:39] <LaserJock> because it's not installing to /
[07:40] <ademan> ah, interesting, doesn't make too much sense to me, but it's an easy rule to follow
[07:40] <ademan> (cause i mean if everything is relative to /  that's logically the same as an absolute path, blah blah blah blah)
[07:42] <LaserJock> right, but you aren't installing to /
[07:42] <LaserJock> in fact you have no idea where you are installing to
[07:42] <LaserJock> so it needs to be relative
[07:43] <ademan> ah i get it, why not ./usr/lib/MyCrap then?  just usr/lib/MyCrap is preffered?
[07:44] <LaserJock> it make more sense to me
[07:44] <LaserJock> *makes
[07:45] <LaserJock> ./usr/lib/MyCrap would me `pwd`/usr/lib/MyCrap wouldn't it?
[07:45] <LaserJock> *mean, my spelling is really bad tonight
[07:50] <ademan> yeah i think that is what it would evaluate to, but wouldn't that be correct? oh i guess not since its not the pwd it's the install dir
[07:57] <LaserJock> well, you are actually installing to `pwd`/debian/<packagename>/
[07:57] <LaserJock> or sometimes `pwd`/debian/tmp/
[08:14] <ademan> LaserJock: about debian/rules when something gets built, does it go into your pwd or the directory of the makefile?
[08:14] <ademan> (i mean normally, i'm sure it can be dictated by the makefile)
[08:17] <LaserJock> I think when things are built it's pwd
[08:18] <LaserJock> for example, when building from a tarball, you can build from a seperate build dir
[08:19] <LaserJock> with a debian package
[08:19] <ademan> hrm, i wish i could just break out of the debian/rules so i could take a look around at the directories
[08:19] <ademan> right before clean
[08:19] <LaserJock> what do you mean?
[08:20] <ademan> like, halt the "execution" of the debian/rules so i can see what files are made and where they are
[08:20] <LaserJock> if you want you can run the whole thing manually
[08:20] <LaserJock> debian/rules is just a makefile
[08:20] <ademan> how? just make the individual targets by hand?
[08:20] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:20] <LaserJock> do it from the source dir
[08:21] <LaserJock> so make -f debian/rules clean
[08:21] <LaserJock> for instance
[08:21] <ademan> yeah, i guess i'd do make debian/rules build and then make debian/rules clean ?
[08:22] <LaserJock> well, whatever you want to do
[08:22] <LaserJock> you should try install too
[08:24] <LaserJock> anyway, time for bed, goodnight all
[09:16] <mikeg41> is anyone here?
[09:17] <mikeg41> topic
[09:17] <mikeg41> oops
[09:19] <Lathiat> uh
[09:20] <mikeg41> good evening
[09:20] <Lathiat> Leave the topic alone, thanks :)
[09:20] <mikeg41> sorry :)
[09:20] <mikeg41> never used IRC before
[09:21] <mikeg41> i was just following some tutorial
[09:21] <Lathiat> join a scratch channel if you want to try that out :)
[09:21] <Lathiat> like #mikeg41 or something :)
[09:22] <mikeg41> so how does this irc channel relate to the MOTU project
[09:22] <mikeg41> I was reading about it in the wiki last night, and I'm interested in getting involed
[09:34] <ademan> mikeg41: well this is where people talk about packaging problems
[09:35] <ademan> (so i talk quite a bit :-) )
[09:35] <ademan> also people ask for REVU (new packages must be revu (review)ed before they can make it into the repositories)
[09:36] <Q-FUNK> how do we UNsubscribe ourselves form a bug?
[09:37] <Q-FUNK> launchpad only seems to have a way of adding people, not removing.
[09:43] <Q-FUNK> /whpois mpitt
[09:43] <Q-FUNK> argh
[09:52] <siretart> Q-FUNK: in the left portlet, there is an edit subscriptions link to unsubscribe yourself or some group
[09:54] <Q-FUNK> it only seems to allow adding
[09:55] <Q-FUNK> siretart: there is NO _edit_ subscribtion, in the first plac.e there is only Add yourself or Add others.
[10:09] <Fujitsu> You can subscribe anyone, but you can only unsubscribe yourself or a group you're a member of.
[10:11] <Q-FUNK> myself is precisely who i'm trying to unsubscribe.
[10:12] <siretart> Q-FUNK: for me, there is a link called 'subscribe/unsubscribe'
[10:12] <siretart> Q-FUNK: it is the same /+subscribe link
[10:13] <Q-FUNK> clicking on that only shows an option to add me.
[10:14] <Q-FUNK> actually, looking at the bottom of the bug's page, it seems that what i get are notices, not subscribtions.  I still want out of this bug, though.
[10:19] <siretart> Q-FUNK: aah, so you are not subscribed to this bug
[10:20] <Fujitsu> Are you assigned/subscribed to the bug or any of it's dupes?
[10:20] <siretart> Q-FUNK: which bug is that?
[10:20] <Q-FUNK> in a way, i am. i still get spammed every time someone adds something to the bug
[10:20] <Q-FUNK> 81721
[10:20] <siretart> bug #81721
[10:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81721 in upgrade-system "6.06-to-6.10 Upfailed" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81721
[10:21] <Fujitsu> We've passed 80000 already?
[10:21] <siretart> Q-FUNK: no, you are indirectly subscribed to this bug, but I don't really understand why
[10:21] <Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: I thought i had reassigned to the correct package, but it seems that clicking on the package name and changing it creates a dupe for the other package, nowadays.
[10:22] <siretart> Q-FUNK: I think that could be a bug in launchpad. you should ask in #launchpad about this
[10:22] <Q-FUNK> I later rejected the ug on my own package, but kept on receiving copies of everything there.
[10:23] <Q-FUNK> previously, clicking on the Affects link with the package name allowed to reassign. now, it instead creates a dupe.
[10:24] <siretart> *sigh*
[02:55] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe yea
[02:55] <imbrandon> 80000+
[03:04] <afflux> I uploaded something to revu last night but my system went down during the upload. now I have parts of my package in revu.tauware.de/incoming, but it's incomplete and reuploading gives an error ('553 Could not create file.'). Any idea how to fix this?
[03:04] <Adri2000> ask an archive admin
[03:05] <Adri2000> to remove the files from incoming
[03:05] <Adri2000> err, not an archive admin, a revu admin
[03:06] <afflux> so someone of the "REVU Team" group for example in launchpad, right?
[03:07] <Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/~revu-hackers
[03:09] <afflux> eh, found it...
[03:10] <afflux> siretart, ajmitch, raphink: could you please remove the sauerbraten* packages and the dcut.Kjell_Braden*.commands files from incoming? thanks a lot.
[03:13] <siretart> afflux: you work on sauerbraten? 
[03:14] <siretart> afflux: are you in touch with the debian games team? Fuddl just asked me to look at his sauerbraten packages to upload them to debian.
[03:14] <Hobbsee> siretart: how does one get an account on tiber?  (to resync the keyring) - i've forgotten :(
[03:15] <siretart> Hobbsee: you write me an encrypted and signed email with your initial credentials
[03:15] <siretart> Hobbsee: hi, btw ;)
[03:15] <Hobbsee> siretart: initial credentials?  meaning?
[03:15] <Hobbsee> siretart: heya!
[03:16] <siretart> Hobbsee: your username and password
[03:16] <Hobbsee> ahhhh
[03:17] <siretart> and in general, some explanation why you need the account and what for
[03:17] <siretart> resyncing the keyring is a good reason, since you are way more often on irc than me
[03:18] <Hobbsee> siretart: for destruction purposes.  duh :P
[03:19] <siretart> ;)
[03:20] <StevenK> "So I can run 'rm -rf /' and blame you entirely"
[03:22] <afflux> siretart: I just built the ubuntu package, yes. But I'm not a sauerbraten dev. No, I'm not in touch with debian.
[03:23] <afflux> (sry for slow answer, tor is lagging atm.)
[03:23] <siretart> afflux: I know that Fuddl from the debian games team is working hard on getting it ready for debian
[03:23] <siretart> afflux: please get in touch with him, so that we don't end up with 2 seperately maintained packages
[03:24] <afflux> okay, i'll try. I just read about some license problems with the data content which caused the debian guys to stop this stuff.
[03:25] <siretart> afflux: the same reason will also cause us ubuntu guys to stop uploading the package
[03:25] <afflux> i didn't take the data files in the package.
[03:26] <siretart> so you can't do anything useful with it?
[03:26] <afflux> the engine is open-source and my package only contains the engine.
[03:26] <siretart> the debian approach is to package the engine for contrib and the data to non-free
[03:27] <siretart> we could sync both packages to multiverse, I think
[03:27] <siretart> afflux: so again, please join the debian games team and work on the package in their svn. 
[03:28] <Adri2000> Laser_away: please take a look at my debdiff http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/genesis_2.2.1-11ubuntu1.debdiff to fix the genesis bugs
[03:29] <afflux> siretart: joining a channel takes a moment. :/
[03:30] <siretart> afflux: it's #debian-games on oftc (e.g. irc.debian.org)
[03:38] <afflux> thank you
[03:49] <siretart> afflux: 15:48:07 < Fuddl_> btw, the ubuntu sauerbraten package is non-free - the zlib license only applies to the src directory. neither to docs, nor to README.html - that guy ships it within his package
[03:50] <afflux> yes, thank you for your help. as i said before: i'm going to contact this guy soon, i have no time now.
[03:51] <siretart> k
[04:31] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:31] <Adri2000> hi bddebian 
[04:31] <nixternal> boo
[04:31] <bddebian> Heya Adri2000, nixternal
[04:31] <nixternal> howdy
[04:31] <nixternal> you buying breakfast?
[04:32] <bddebian> nixternal: Sure
[04:33] <nixternal> awesome, actually I will wait for lunch, then you get me a cheese steak
[04:33] <bddebian> mmmm
[04:34] <nixternal> Pat's or Ginos?
[04:34] <nixternal> I remember those 2 places
[04:34] <bddebian> Honestly.  I haven't been to either one yet. :-)
[04:36] <nixternal> when I had to work at the shipyard there for about a month, I remember going to them, they are like right next to each other I think
[05:09] <bddebian> nixternal: Yeah they are, I just avoid Philly whenever possible :_)
[05:35] <Adri2000> geser: can I merge greylistd?
[05:36] <Adri2000> actually there is nothing to do :p
[05:37] <geser> sure
[05:38] <geser> I will sponsor it if you need one
[05:39] <Adri2000> ok, thanks :)
[05:42] <Adri2000> argh, .po files in the debdiff
[05:42] <Adri2000> I have often that but I don't understand why :(
[05:43] <coNP> Adri2000: if you have time, please have a look at bug 45171 :) (I committed a patch for it)
[05:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45171 in openbox "openbox cannot catch gnome-screenshot shortcut" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45171
[05:47] <Adri2000> coNP: maybe using dpatch or something would be better than editing directly openbox-3.3/data/rc.xml.in
[05:47] <coNP> Adri2000: why do you mean this?
[05:50] <Adri2000> coNP: you shouldn't change a file from the orig tarball like that, it causes problem when updating to a new upstream version and it's not clean
[05:51] <coNP> Adri2000: I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix states not to use a patch system if the packages does not use one
[05:51] <Adri2000> so you can put your patch(es) in debian/patches and use a patch system like dpatch to apply them during the build
[05:52] <geser> I wouldn't introduce a patch system for such a small change
[05:52] <coNP> okay, for me it seemed it is forbidden for me, because I am not the package maintainer
[05:53] <Adri2000> right, it creates an important diff with debian
[05:53] <Adri2000> coNP: listen geser :
[05:53] <coNP> Adri2000: sorry I don't understand; geser said no patch system for this
[05:54] <Adri2000> yes
[05:54] <Adri2000> you should listen him rather than me :)
[05:55] <geser> coNP: I'm uploading the debdiff as is
[05:55] <geser> introducing a patch system would be ok if you need to apply some rather longly patches
[05:56] <coNP> okay, thank you both Adri2000, geser
[05:56] <coNP> you are quite good in frightening motu-wannabees :)
[05:57] <Adri2000> geser: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/greylistd_0.8.3.3ubuntu1.debdiff, I have removed the .po changes from it
[06:02] <ScottK> geser: Did you ever get a chance to look at my package that we discussed on Friday? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4179
[06:02] <geser> ScottK: not yet
[06:03] <ScottK> OK.  No problem.  Understand that merging is the priority at the moment.
[06:03] <ScottK> Thanks.
[06:04] <geser> Adri2000: uploaded
[06:04] <Adri2000> thanks
[06:10] <Adri2000> geser: is there anything decided about the maintainer field?
[06:11] <Adri2000> because \sh changed it in some packages
[06:20] <geser> Adri2000: not that I know of
[06:21] <Adri2000> geser: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/wysihtml_0.13-4ubuntu1.debdiff
[06:28] <geser> Adri2000: uploaded
[06:29] <Adri2000> re-thanks :)
[07:13] <siretart> afflux: sauerbraten just hit the debian NEW queue: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html - feel free to file a sync request (or hit me or some other MOTU to do that) for ubuntu
[07:15] <afflux> siretart: excellent. should i test build it or just mention in the sync request that it built fine on your feisty pbuilder?
[07:16] <siretart> afflux: if I aren't in ubuntu-dev yet, you'll need some MOTU to testbuild and ACK the request
[07:17] <siretart> I tested the package locally here, works fine for me on feisty/amd64. no idea about i386 and ppc though
[07:17] <pirast> keescook, hi
[07:18] <afflux> siretart: query?
[07:19] <givre> Hello all
[07:20] <givre> just a question
[07:21] <siretart> afflux: siretart@jabberme.net is fine as well
[07:21] <givre> if i have a package with an init script, and if i want to adapt this init script for ubuntu (basicly make it LSB compliant)
[07:21] <givre> is it better to patch the init script
[07:22] <givre> or simplu don't install the upstream init script, but instead install the modified init script
[07:24] <givre> since the changes are big, i would go for the second solution, but i'm not sure.
[07:25] <ajmitch> morning
[07:41] <ScottK> good afternoon.
[07:54] <Zic_> hi
[08:03] <zul_> 3 ~76h 0
[08:03] <zul_> \
[08:17] <Zic_> hello, I have a problem with my launchpad account : http://launchpad.net/~zic/
[08:17] <Zic_> My email is .. gone :|
[08:17] <Zic_> When i'm loging, I see my e-mail with a "cadena"
[08:18] <Adri2000> lock
[08:18] <Zic_> In fact, I have change my GPG key, because I have lost it :/
[08:18] <Adri2000> padlock*
[08:18] <Adri2000> Zic_: try #launchpad
[08:18] <Zic_> good idea :>
[08:20] <Adri2000> $ wc -l gnucash_2.0.2-2.1ubuntu1.patch
[08:20] <Adri2000> 789442 gnucash_2.0.2-2.1ubuntu1.patch
[08:24] <stgraber> :)
[08:35] <ScottK> As some of you may recall, I'm having lots of 'fun' over here trying to merge the latest courier from Debian....  All the binaries have a "init.d-script-missing-lsb-section" warning that crimsun said needed to be investigated.  If someone would point me in the direction of an appropriate reference for Ubuntu LSB and init scripts, I'd really appreciate it.
[08:38] <welshbyte> ScottK: http://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts
[08:39] <ScottK> Thanks.
[08:49] <welshbyte> ScottK: that's the spirit
[08:50] <Adri2000> geser: still here?
[08:50] <ScottK> Thanks.
[08:51] <ScottK> Learning new things is good, even if it hurts a bit at the time...
[08:51] <geser> Adri2000: yes
[08:51] <Adri2000> geser: gnucash merged: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/gnucash_2.0.2-3ubuntu1.debdiff but haven't yet built it
[08:53] <geser> Adri2000: I'm currently not at home and can't upload now
[08:53] <Adri2000> ok, then I will file a bug once it is built
[09:16] <ScottK> How does one unmark a bug a duplicate.  It seems I got ahead of myself...
[09:19] <crimsun> which?
[09:20] <ScottK> Bug #69143
[09:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69143 in courier ""/etc/init.d/courier-pop-ssl start" does nothing (dup-of: 69140)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69143
[09:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69140 in courier "The script /etc/init.d/courier-imap-ssl restart does nothing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69140
[09:21] <ScottK> It's a different init script the bug is about and I didn't notice until after I pulled the trigger.
[09:21] <crimsun> click "Mark as Duplicate", remove the bug number, and click Change
[09:22] <ScottK> Ah.
[09:23] <ScottK> Thanks.  That little bit of UI was not intuitive for me.
[09:23] <crimsun> LP has quite some ways to go
[09:23] <crimsun> I've kinda fallen into its sort of unintuitiveness, so I know some of those nasties
[09:23] <ScottK> As such things go it's not bad.
[09:23] <ScottK> Appreciate the help.
[09:25] <ScottK> Certainly much less counter-intuitive than clicking on something marked 'Start' to turn off a computer.
[10:02] <crimsun> argh
[10:02] <ajmitch> argh?
[10:02] <crimsun> why are people assigning sync requests to u-u-s?
[10:02] <crimsun> and then, of course, not following sync req policy?  (bug 82035)
[10:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82035 in Ubuntu "Please sync pam-keyring (0.0.8-1) from debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82035
[10:03] <Adri2000> it means YOU have to file a correct sync request :)
[10:05] <crimsun> uh yeah, I'll get right on that.
[10:11] <ScottK> Heh.  The person that filed the bug, bigon, is even on this channel now....
[10:14] <ajmitch> how annoying
[10:15] <ajmitch> if only lp weren't so slow
[10:16] <coNP> thanks Adri2000 
[10:17] <ajmitch> there, filed
[10:17] <Adri2000> hmm, for what coNP? :)
[10:22] <coNP> Adri2000: oh, nothing :); I guess geser was the one who uploaded my package
[10:22] <Adri2000> eheh, yes, I can't upload :)
[10:22] <geser> coNP: yes I uploaded openbox
[10:23] <coNP> oh, I tought you were a MOTU, Adri2000 
[10:23] <coNP> geser: thanks
[10:23] <Adri2000> coNP: I hope soon :p
[10:24] <Adri2000> ScottK: :D
[10:42] <Adri2000> LaserJock: \o/
[10:45] <LaserJock> Adri2000: hi, did you try that genesis-start script out?
[10:45] <Adri2000> of course
[11:07] <Adri2000> LaserJock: is my debdiff ok?
[11:15] <siretart> jdong: I just sponsored your ffmpeg patch (the x264 linkage patch)
[11:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81799 in courier "Courier version courier_0.53.3-3ubuntu1 requires merge" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81799
[11:30] <crimsun> ScottK: The source package lintian warnings can be ignored.
[11:31] <crimsun> ScottK: Is it really out of your way to LSB-ify the initscript?
[11:31] <ScottK> It doesn't look that hard.
[11:32] <ScottK> The real question is, is that worth adding to the diff from debian?
[11:32] <ScottK> If the answer is yes, then I'll go take a shot at it.
[11:32] <crimsun> It's not difficult. See any of the main packages that ship an initscript.
[11:32] <crimsun> Yes, it's worth it if for no other reason than to shoot patches into Debian BTS.
[11:33] <ScottK> OK.  I do note that there are patches for courier that have been sitting in BTS for a LONG time (including one from siretart).
[11:33] <siretart> ScottK: did you actually test your merged courier?
[11:33] <ScottK> I'll go work on that.
[11:33] <ScottK> Not yet.
[11:34] <ScottK> I'm having some issues with the courier-authdaemon and my feisty chroot that I'm trying to figure out.
[11:34] <siretart> ScottK: filing patches to the bts is a good idea in any case for several reasons: the maintainer could wake up somewhen, the maintainer could change or some other DD could feel like NMUing the package
[11:37] <siretart> err, the only things that have been done are only translation updates, no?
[11:37] <ScottK> Yes.
[11:38] <ScottK> That's why when I started on this one I thought it would be an easy merge to do.
[11:38] <ScottK> I'm dealing with stuff that was pre-exisitng.
[11:38] <ScottK> existing...
[11:39] <ScottK> btw, the current courier-authdaemon init scripts aren't lsbified either.
[11:41] <ScottK> If someone more experienced wanted to jump in and take over on this, I'd be thrilled.
[11:42] <enyc> Hrrm... I am running into trouble with edgy and console.. osmething is a bit wrong as the capslock light does not get lit when active (normal PS/2 keyboard fully working) after "setting preliminary keymap" message at boot ...  note that num/caps LEDs work as is normal on X-server....  I have already reset the keymap with "sudo dpkg-reconfigure console-setup" btw... this does not help
[11:42] <crimsun> I'm pretty sure you meant that for #ubuntu.
[11:43] <enyc> o
[11:43] <enyc> kk
[11:48] <raphink> hi guys
[11:49] <raphink> anyone to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4221 ?
[11:49] <muzzol> hi
[11:49] <muzzol> LaserJock, crimsun ping
[11:49] <raphink> hi muzzol
[11:50] <muzzol> hi raphink 
[11:50] <muzzol> raphink, are you aware about the problem of cinelerra?
[11:50] <raphink> which problem?
[11:50] <muzzol> licensing problmes
[11:50] <raphink> I guess that means "no I'm not aware"
[11:50] <raphink> no I'm not
[11:50] <muzzol> ok
[11:51] <raphink> what kind of licensing issues are these?
[11:51] <muzzol> well, basically we wanna be sure what is inside cinelerra
[11:51] <muzzol> because heroin warrior, the main developers
[11:51] <muzzol> use code from other projects
[11:52] <muzzol> so we want to be sure we dont have any problems with that derived code
[11:52] <raphink> ic
[11:52] <raphink> yep
[11:52] <raphink> that's good
[11:52] <muzzol> for example
[11:53] <muzzol> cinelerra uses code from toolame
[11:53] <crimsun> toolame is in Ubuntu universe, so that's a non-issue.
[11:53] <raphink> are you working on the cinelerra package?
[11:54] <muzzol> i got the package actually compiled for feisty
[11:54] <muzzol> i think it needs a revision
[11:54] <muzzol> but i have no idea about revo
[11:54] <muzzol> revu
[11:54] <raphink> I thought cinelerra was already in Debian/Ubuntu
[11:54] <muzzol> what?
[11:54] <muzzol> thats not possible
[11:54] <raphink> might be wrong
[11:54] <raphink> haven't used it
[11:54] <muzzol> cinelerra had lot of packagers before
[11:54] <raphink> no i was wrong
[11:55] <raphink> did you look for packages for Debian already?
[11:55] <muzzol> but none taked the job to do it permanently
[11:55] <raphink> or previous packages on REVU?
[11:55] <muzzol> im pretty sure cinelerra is not on the repos
[11:55] <raphink> it could be somewhere on apt-get.org
[11:56] <raphink> at least it's not on revu
[11:56] <raphink> is there an ITP/RFP filed already in Debian?
[11:56] <muzzol> please, be kindly with a noob
[11:56] <muzzol> itp?
[11:56] <muzzol> request for package
[11:56] <raphink> itp = intent to package
[11:56] <muzzol> ok
[11:57] <raphink> rfp = request for package
[11:57] <raphink> http://groups.google.fr/group/linux.debian.bugs.dist/browse_thread/thread/1d6745998c8eddb/958040073398d4cb?lnk=st&q=cinelerra+itp&rnum=2#958040073398d4cb
[11:58] <_MMA_> raphink: I saw one a while ago for Ubuntu but no one has done it.
[11:58] <raphink> http://groups.google.fr/group/linux.debian.devel/browse_thread/thread/6cfeb05bd874f0ee/b27b755cc08a78ce?lnk=st&q=cinelerra+itp&rnum=3#b27b755cc08a78ce
[11:58] <raphink> _MMA_: ITP/RFP for Ubuntu :O
[11:58] <_MMA_> LaserJock at one time showed me a link. Ill try to dig it up.
[11:58] <raphink> you might want to contact these guys too, muzzol
[11:58] <_MMA_> Point is nobody has done it.
[11:59] <raphink> _MMA_: we don't use ITP/RFP in Ubuntu
[11:59] <raphink> unless it has changed while I was not looking :)
[12:00] <_MMA_> raphink: At this moment we're just trying to sort out the license issues. Can yo uhelp?
[12:00] <_MMA_> *you help..
[12:00] <raphink> well right now it's midnight
[12:00] <raphink> so I think I'll go help my bed getting flatter
[12:00] <raphink> :)
[12:00] <_MMA_> Besides the time...
[12:00] <raphink> otherwise if I have some time and you still have issues I might help
[12:00] <raphink> :)
[12:00] <_MMA_> Do you have the proper knowlege?
[12:00] <raphink> knowledge for what?
[12:01] <raphink> for the license issues?
[12:01] <_MMA_> yes
[12:01] <raphink> I'm not a lawyer
[12:01] <raphink> but I've been confronted to licensing issues quite a few times
[12:01] <raphink> last time was a few minutes ago with PDFedit ;)
[12:01] <muzzol> raphink, that links you showed me are from several years ago
[12:02] <_MMA_> More to get Cinelerras licenses inline with Debian packaging rules.
[12:02] <raphink> muzzol: that does not mean that the package sources have disappeared
[12:02] <raphink> if they have existed
[12:02] <raphink> or that the people who did the packages at the time don't remember them
[12:03] <_MMA_> Thats where _some_ of the issues are. ie: They give 1 license in the root dir for all of the files.
[12:03] <raphink> _MMA_: yes
[12:03] <raphink> I know of such issues _MMA_
[12:03] <raphink> I'm dealing with the same kind of issues with PDFedit today
[12:03] <muzzol> mmm, im close to cinelerra-cv developers so i dont think that people even work on that package
[12:03] <muzzol> i knew
[12:03] <raphink> and sent an email to upstream for that
[12:03] <muzzol> ok
[12:03] <muzzol> i can do that
[12:03] <raphink> ;)
[12:03] <muzzol> what is the protocol i case some of that guys are still there?
[12:04] <raphink> they include the source code of several projects in their code (kpdf, xpdf, etc.) and don't use any GPL headers in their code
[12:04] <raphink> nor any copyright line anywhere
[12:04] <raphink> and only include a LICENSE.GPL file
[12:04] <raphink> in doc/
[12:04] <raphink> ;)
[12:04] <raphink> muzzol: contact them and talk :)
[12:04] <_MMA_> raphink: Whats the protocol if the apps devs are less than cooperative?
[12:05] <raphink> _MMA_: it's their program, their work
[12:05] <raphink> they do what they want with it
[12:05] <raphink> if they want ot put it under a proprietary license, they can
[12:05] <muzzol> is not the case
[12:05] <muzzol> let me explain
[12:05] <raphink> provided it does not break dependencies on other licenses
[12:05] <muzzol> raphink, 
[12:05] <muzzol> cinelerra have two friendly forks
[12:05] <raphink> mhm
[12:05] <muzzol> the main is from heroin warrior
[12:05] <_MMA_> raphink: We have a email stating we can add the license headers but upstream will not do it themselves.
[12:06] <raphink> _MMA_: that's not fine
[12:06] <raphink> _MMA_: add the headers, make a patch
[12:06] <raphink> and send it back to upstream
[12:06] <raphink> if they're too lazy, they can at least include your patch with proper headers
[12:06] <raphink> if it's something else, you might contact the FSF
[12:08] <_MMA_> raphink: We've been told in so many words that the license they provide is fine. They (heroine) wont change it just because it doesnt conform to Debian packaging rules.
[12:08] <raphink> Debian licensing rules are conform to the FSF ones
[12:08] <raphink> that are pretty strict
[12:09] <_MMA_> The Cinelerra-CV guys are a friendly fork but they seem slow to change alot.
[12:09] <raphink> there are rules to use the GPL, described on the GNU website
[12:09] <raphink> _MMA_: as I said, if you're in a hurry, make the changes yourself, send them a patch and let them type "patch -p 0 < yourpatch.diff"
[12:09] <raphink> not like it's gonna take them hours
[12:10] <raphink> ><> LaserJock
[12:10] <LaserJock> _MMA_: do you actually know yet how many files need  license?
[12:10] <_MMA_> I dont think its a time thing. Some of it I get the felling they just dont care.
[12:11] <_MMA_> LaserJock: muzzol said at one time 2/3rds.
[12:11] <raphink> _MMA_: if they don't care, it still doesn't take much to apply an existing patch
[12:11] <_MMA_> I think theres about 3000 or so? muzzol?
[12:11] <muzzol> yes
[12:11] <muzzol> about that
[12:12] <raphink> otherwise, ask for a CVS/SVN access :)
[12:12] <_MMA_> Thats true.
[12:12] <muzzol> raphink, is there any problem with using a generic advise license?
[12:12] <muzzol> instead of changing every file?
[12:12] <muzzol> were confortable about GPL of the code
[12:13] <muzzol> the problem is manually adding gpl to each file
[12:13] <_MMA_> muzzol: I thought we could script that?
[12:13] <muzzol> we can try
[12:14] <LaserJock> at the very least have  list of the files and explicitly say that those files are under the GPL
[12:15] <muzzol> thats what we wanted to do
[12:15] <muzzol> at least for this first package
[12:15] <muzzol> and ask developers to add it from now on
[12:16] <muzzol> and help them for the next release
[12:16] <raphink> muzzol: try?
[12:16] <_MMA_> There just seems to be some politics there also we need to work through.