[12:59] <mpt__> Gooooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[01:01] <jml> good morning mpt 
[01:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82201 in launchpad "Get rid of global (non-constant) variables in distributionmirror_prober.py" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82201
[01:50] <ajmitch> afternoon mpt 
[02:05] <sabdfl> hey ajmitch, mpt
[02:05] <sabdfl> mpt: any feedback on the commentary so far?
[02:06] <ajmitch> hello sabdfl 
[02:10] <mpt> sabdfl, I'm in the process of replying to it
[02:11] <mpt> Some of the things are already reported as bugs, some aren't
[02:11] <sabdfl> cool, thanks, will take a look tomorrow
[02:11] <sabdfl> they all seem like pretty quick fixes
[02:11] <mpt> It would be interesting to get feedback from you, SteveA, and kiko on how the bug tracker could be made quicker to use
[02:11] <mpt> so that we're not tracking some bugs as bug reports, others as e-mail messages
[02:11] <kiko-afk> sabdfl, matsubara was asking me if we wanted bugreports for the individual items
[02:12] <mpt> because tracking them in several different places will cause some to get lost, and makes prioritization harder
[02:12] <sabdfl> kiko-afk: judgement of the relevant devs, i reckon, since for many of them it will be a set of one-liners and a single landing
[02:12] <sabdfl> i did say in my email, feel free to file bugs accordingly
[02:12] <kiko-afk> mpt, there is some validity in having an email that lists out related issues... it would definitely be fast if we could just send mark's email to malone and have all the bugs filed on them behalf
[02:12] <kiko-afk> sabdfl, yes, I know you did -- he was asking /me/ (I could be clearer :)
[02:13] <kiko-afk> where did "them behalf" come from?
[02:13] <sabdfl> kiko-afk: the sleep fairy slipped it in ;-)
[02:13] <kiko-afk> did my merges go in?
[02:14] <kiko-afk> mpt, many +s for you today for writing an email with "raison d'etre" in it
[02:14] <kiko-afk> wooo they did
[02:15] <mpt> kiko-afk, what's the Portuguese for raison d'tre?
[02:15] <kiko-afk> razo de existncia
[02:15] <kiko-afk> ou razo de ser
[02:15] <kiko-afk> more precisely I guess
[02:16] <mpt> ah, ser as in que sera sera
[02:16] <sabdfl> mpt: please could you add three more bullet images we need? A check ("yes") a cross ("no") and a question mark ("yes?")
[02:16] <sabdfl> the use case is for the places where we have a propose/accept/decline workflow
[02:17] <sabdfl> for example - spec is proposed for summit, then accepted or declined
[02:17] <kiko-afk> sabdfl, I also asked for an info request icon
[02:17] <sabdfl> currently we list that as uds-mtv (Accepted)
[02:17] <kiko-afk> so we can mark places that people can actively garden for
[02:17] <kiko-afk> us
[02:17] <kiko-afk> for instance, packaging links
[02:17] <sabdfl> would be better to show uds-mtv ?
[02:17] <sabdfl> clickin on the ? takes you to the page where you can accept
[02:17] <sabdfl> until we have fancy ajax
[02:17] <kiko-afk> and other things which we can have people come in and assist
[02:18] <sabdfl> when clicking would give a popup DHTML (not window) to let you do it there
[02:18] <sabdfl> kiko-afk: hmm... nice to have a general "invitation to garden" icon
[02:19] <sabdfl> come up with three places it would fit right now and i'd say +1
[02:19] <sabdfl> mpt: just sent mail with a few more quick fixes for blueprint for the next UI rev
[02:19] <sabdfl> will save steve and kiko and i some time if you can jam them through
[02:20] <kiko-afk> sabdfl, packaging, telling us about an upstream bugtracker used by an upstream, typos in product/project/distro descriptions.. adding releases for stuff owned by registry-admins.. 
[02:20] <sabdfl> DONE!
[02:20] <kiko-afk> there are more than 3 places where we can suggest helping with packaging links actually
[02:20] <kiko-afk> in the guided add task workflow
[02:20] <kiko-afk> in the filebug page when upstream doesn't use malone officially
[02:20] <mpt> sabdfl, /@@/yes, /@@/no, and /@@/maybe added to launchpad-graphics.pt
[02:21] <kiko-afk> in the product and product series homepages in some circumstances
[02:21] <sabdfl> mpt: nice, danke
[02:22] <sabdfl> ok, kiko, sleep time :-)
[02:22] <sabdfl> night all
[02:22] <mpt> de nada
[02:22] <kiko-afk> night mark
[02:22] <Fujitsu> Night, sabdfl.
[02:23] <somerville32> Night :)
[02:28] <mpt> stub or kiko-afk, did either of you fix bug 81714?
[02:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81714 in launchpad "Delete malicious comment(s)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81714
[02:28] <mpt> I don't see the comment referred to
[02:28] <kiko-afk> maybe stub did -- I can't
[02:28] <mpt> so I'm unsure whether the user was banned
[02:28] <Fujitsu> mpt, I can see the comment...
[02:29] <mpt> oh!
[02:29] <mpt> there it is
[02:29] <mpt> hmm, Find didn't find it
[02:30] <mpt> and the comment was made 14 months ago...
[02:30] <kiko-afk> the bounty pages were banished into the same dimension as the calendaring pages
[02:31] <kiko-afk> when you visit them you are actually in that other dimension
[02:31] <kiko-afk> which is a bit scary :)
[02:31] <Fujitsu> But isn't the calendar function actually turned off?
[02:31] <mpt> Most of it...
[02:32] <Fujitsu> All I can see is the iCal download thing.
[02:33] <Fujitsu> mpt: You're the beta feedback guy, aren't you?
[02:34] <mpt> well, that depends
[02:34] <mpt> Problems with the implementation should generally be reported as bugs
[02:35] <mpt> except if they're stuff that works on launchpad.net but doesn't on beta.launchpad.net, because I know about those, and they'll be fixed all at once RSN
[02:35] <mpt> Problems with the design are not my area
[02:36] <mpt> If you're not sure whether it's design or implementation, I'm happy to listen :-)
[02:36] <Fujitsu> OK.
[02:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82206 in malone "No mail notification when linking blueprint to bug report" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82206
[02:36] <Fujitsu> Hrm, are we likely to be seeing more than just styling-changes in the near future?
[02:39] <mpt> No important differences in quantity of pages
[02:39] <ajmitch> has jamesh been around? I want to ask him about the debian bug importer
[02:39] <mpt> but some changes in the things that are listed on those pages.
[02:39] <ajmitch> (or anyone else that happens to know details)
[02:41] <jamesh> ajmitch: I'm here
[02:41] <jamesh> what in particular do you want to know?
[02:42] <ajmitch> firstly, where are you pulling data from, and are you getting the version information (bugs found in X, fixed in Y)
[02:42] <ajmitch> since I'm trying to compile a list of packages that we should update in universe, that have bugfixes in debian
[02:43] <ajmitch> it'd be easier to grab something from launchpad than screen-scraping off the bts :)
[02:48] <jamesh> ajmitch: the bug updater works off a copy of the debbugs database
[02:48] <jamesh> I believe it gets rsynced from bugs.debian.org regularly
[02:48] <ajmitch> I thought it might
[02:48] <ajmitch> I may have to grab a copy off merkel.d.o, which is a mirror already
[02:49] <jamesh> so we have access to everything in the bug reports -- I don't think we use everything in the bug reports though
[02:49] <ajmitch> yeah, I tried using the bts2ldap gateway, but it doesn't have enough in it
[02:50] <ajmitch> I found the data on merkel, I was just preferring if launchpad already had some of the information
[02:52] <ajmitch> thanks anyway, I'll look at rsyncing the data
[03:21] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82212 in malone "milestone views in beta have unclickable tabs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82212
[03:59] <stub> kiko-afk: ping?
[04:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82214 in launchpad "Help sidebar is broken in Internet Explorer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82214
[04:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #79285 in launchpad "Actions menu should not look collapsible" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79285
[04:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82215 in launchpad ""Actions" heading should be hidden if there aren't any" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82215
[04:11] <Fujitsu> mpt: One gripe I have with the beta UI is the fact that all the portlets(?) are hidden by default, and they're all hidden on the one side. Is that going to change at some point?
[04:12] <mpt> Fujitsu, I don't know -- it's possible that we'll have some of them open by default
[04:12] <mpt> And yes, we really do call them "portlets" :-D
[04:13] <Fujitsu> In some ways I prefer the old interface, because I can see at a glance what version the package is at from a bug page, without having to locate and click the portlet title.
[04:13] <mpt> Can you give an example page?
[04:14] <mpt> an example URL, I mean
[04:15] <Fujitsu> Any distro source package bug page.
[04:15] <Fujitsu> A lot of the bug data is hidden by default now.
[04:16] <Fujitsu> Reporter, component, attachments, links to the list of page bugs... Although a lot of people won't want to see them, some will.
[04:16] <Fujitsu> Ideally, the interface would be somehow customisable.
[04:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82217 in launchpad "Project search results should not have icon, portlets, etc" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82217
[04:17] <mpt> I haven't implemented the redesign of the bug page yet
[04:17] <mpt> but I think your points will still be valid after that
[04:20] <Fujitsu> I think it'd be nice (but probably impractical) to be able to customise the ordering/side/initial-status of the portlets on each type of page. But as I said, it's probably very impractical to implement.
[04:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82219 in launchpad ""Logged in as..." and "Log Out" are a little too low" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82219
[04:22] <mpt> Google News does it :-)
[04:22] <Fujitsu> Also, beta really sucks in IE at the moment. No `Logged in as' or `Log out', the current location bit doesn't display properly, etc.
[04:22] <mpt> ah, yes, I just noticed the lack of the login control
[04:24] <jamesh> Fujitsu: you could upgrade your web browser :)
[04:25] <Fujitsu> jamesh, I happened to be on a machine not under my entire control, which was running Windows and had no Firefox. It was a painful experience.
[04:28] <mpt> Fujitsu, 6 or 7?
[04:28] <Fujitsu> 6.
[04:29] <mpt> ta
[04:30] <Fujitsu> Beta's overly-vibrant colour scheme is now growing on me, which I didn't expect.
[04:31] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71987 in launchpad "All of application tab should be clickable, not just its text" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/71987
[04:31] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: interesting, what does it look like?
[04:32] <mpt> ajmitch, http://en.opensuse.org/
[04:34] <ajmitch> :P
[04:36] <mpt> but seriously, that's approximately it
[04:37] <mpt> Actually, <http://haveamint.com/> is closer
[04:38] <Hobbsee> heh, it does rather
[04:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82220 in launchpad "Login/logout control is missing in Internet Explorer" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82220
[04:41] <ajmitch> ouch
[04:42] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, the best description of my first impression of beta is `Aaaargh, it burns my eyes out almost as much as the Kubuntu theme'.
[04:45] <ajmitch> that much pain?
[04:45] <Fujitsu> It's all bright colours!
[04:46] <Fujitsu> Like, the location/logon-control bar up the top is bright green, and the different applications have different bright colours assigned to them.
[04:47] <ajmitch> so it's moved away from plone.css a bit :)
[04:47] <mpt> ajmitch, you can prepare yourself by painting your room red
[04:48] <ajmitch> joy
[04:49] <Fujitsu> You will need to prepare, and likely attend a rehabilitation clinic for some time after you first see it.
[04:50] <mpt> Nah, it's not that bad
[04:50] <Fujitsu> It is a bit different from the current colour scheme, though. :P
[04:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82223 in launchpad "Project search results should be application-aware" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82223
[04:53] <WebMaven> sounds like Google's color palette
[04:56] <mpt> If I was designing Launchpad, it would be silver
[04:56] <mpt> and that's all I'm going to say about that.
[04:57] <ajmitch> with lots of gradients & shiny chrome?
[04:58] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82224 in malone ""Recently fixed" list on Bugs front page should be 5 bugs only" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82224
[04:59] <Fujitsu> Is there no way to change the current bug task in the GUI, or am I missing it?
[05:00] <mpt> Fujitsu, what do you mean by "change"?
[05:00] <mpt> Retarget it to another package/product?
[05:00] <Fujitsu> I mean change the currently selected one.
[05:00] <Fujitsu> Not making any modification, just the display change.
[05:01] <Fujitsu> Like, the difference between ubuntu/+source/soundconverter/+bug/41457 and soundconverter/+bug/41457
[05:02] <Fujitsu> A couple of the actions depend on the current context, but there seems to be no GUI way to change it.
[05:03] <Fujitsu> (other than navigating right out, into the product, into the bug listing, and then back into the bug)
[05:04] <mpt> Oh.
[05:04] <mpt> Yes.
[05:05] <Fujitsu> ... what was that `Yes.' to?
[05:05] <mpt> to you
[05:05] <Fujitsu> Which bit?
[05:11] <mpt> All of what you said in the past 12 minutes :-)
[05:11] <Fujitsu> So there is no graphical way to change it?
[05:18] <mpt> Hobbsee, that's my job, I may get to it today
[05:19] <Hobbsee> mpt: ahhh :)
[05:19] <mpt> but I'm really hungry
[05:19] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[05:19] <mpt> Fujitsu, correct
[05:22] <Hobbsee> argh.
[05:22] <Hobbsee> what happened to "request fix upstream"  it now doesnt let you put in the URL anymore?
[05:26] <DBO> mmmm so I hear you poor folks are getting lots of bugs from beryl...
[05:57] <Hobbsee> DBO: heh
[05:57] <DBO> no answer =P
[05:58] <Hobbsee> they'r enot all her
[05:58] <Hobbsee> e
[06:16] <static> beryl has bugs?
[06:16] <Hobbsee> static: heaps :P
[06:16] <ajmitch> DBO: far too many
[06:17] <DBO> ajmitch, I know, but Im not sure what we can do to help
[06:17] <DBO> most of the bug reports tend to be configuration issues
[06:23] <Hobbsee> mpt_: why is launchpad in ETC time?  shouldnt it be in UTC, which is what everything else is in?
[06:28] <mpt_> DBO, I haven't heard of any Launchpad developer getting bugs from Beryl
[06:29] <mpt> Hobbsee, I don't know
[06:29] <DBO> I meant more along the lines of lots of bugs getting filed on launchpad
[06:29] <mpt> Hobbsee, please report a bug about it if it isn't already
[06:29] <DBO> looking over it, it looks like most of these reports are from svn users
[06:30] <LaserJock> mpt: people were filing bugs against beryl
[06:31] <LaserJock> a source package page was set up when it was uploaded
[06:31] <LaserJock> but it has since been rejected
[06:31] <LaserJock> however people can still file bugs against it
[06:32] <Hobbsee> mpt: done :)
[06:32] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/82230
[06:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82230 in launchpad "Launchpad lists all times in EST" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[06:37] <Bhaskar> there is still error on downloading po and mo from launchpad ??
[06:38] <Bhaskar> danilos:there is still error on downloading po and mo from launchpad ??
[06:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82230 in launchpad "Launchpad lists all times in EST, not UTC" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82230
[06:41] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, the timezone is configurable...
[06:41] <LaserJock> yeah, that's what I was thinking
[06:42] <mpt> LaserJock, that would be a bug in Malone
[06:43] <mpt> probably
[06:44] <Fujitsu> mpt, isn't it Soyuz's fault that the source package isn't removed when the upload is rejected?
[06:45] <mpt> Fujitsu, I think source packages are recorded always and forever
[06:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82232 in launchpad "Location bar links should go to Overview of that item" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82232
[06:45] <LaserJock> mpt: but why should it be?
[06:45] <LaserJock> if it's rejected
[06:45] <Fujitsu> Yeah, I noticed that... I've got a nice semi-existent source package in my maintained package list, even though it was rejected :(
[06:45] <mpt> good point
[06:46] <mpt> ok, bug in soyuz then
[06:47] <Fujitsu> Bug #52549, I think?
[06:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52549 in soyuz "please do not show SP that have never seen light in the system." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/52549
[06:47] <LaserJock> yep
[06:47] <LaserJock> was just trying to paste that in
[06:47] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: it's on my list ;-)
[06:48] <Fujitsu> Malone's search functionality actually proved useful for once :O
[06:48] <ajmitch> you sound cynical
[06:48] <LaserJock> heh, it's not *that* bad
[06:48] <LaserJock> ajmitch: like me? ;-)
[06:49] <ajmitch> nah
[08:50] <sabdfl> can we get ubugtu to name the bug reporter in the case of new bugs or tasks?
[09:00] <carlos> morning
[09:01] <popey> subconciously perhaps
[09:23] <Bhaskar> mpt: there is still problem to download mo and po ??
[09:23] <mpt> Bhaskar, I don't know, I've never tried
[09:24] <mpt> Is the bug report I pointed you to last time still open?
[09:24] <Bhaskar> mpt: who can say, suggest me??
[09:28] <jamesh> Bhaskar: it is probably the same problem you ran into yesterday
[09:28] <jamesh> Bhaskar: stub didn't fix the underlying problem yesterday -- he only cleared some queue entries that were triggering the bug
[09:29] <Bhaskar> jamesh: ok, upto when it will fixed?
[09:29] <jamesh> Bhaskar: I don't know.  I think carlos or danilos have been working on it though
[09:30] <Bhaskar> jamesh:well
[09:30] <carlos> Bhaskar: we are doing a new code update that should include our fix
[09:30] <carlos> so I expect to have it fixed today
[09:30] <Bhaskar> carlos:ok
[09:30] <jamesh> carlos: stub has postponed the rollout
[09:30] <jamesh> so maybe tomorrow
[09:30] <carlos> oh, really?
[09:31] <carlos> Bhaskar: then, tomorrow...
[09:31] <Bhaskar> carlos: why such problem occurs time to time?
[09:31] <carlos> Bhaskar: because we had bad tests support for it
[09:31] <carlos> Bhaskar: this time, we are adding a good set of tests
[09:31] <carlos> to prevent this to happen again
[09:32] <Bhaskar> carlos: ok
[09:32] <Bhaskar> carlos: so i have to wait upto tomorrow to download po
[09:33] <carlos> you can do the request now
[09:33] <carlos> but you will not get the email with the download link until tomorrow
[09:33] <Bhaskar> carlos: i have requested but not getting..
[09:34] <carlos> don't worry, the requests are not forgotten, we have them as pending to be processed
[10:54] <ignas> hi
[10:55] <ignas> how long does it take for a new pot file to get reviewed and approved?
[10:55] <ignas> in rosetta
[11:04] <carlos> ignas: it depends on how busy we are
[11:04] <carlos> I try to do it a couple of times each week
[11:05] <ignas> carlos: i see
[11:05] <ignas> why is that system in place anyway ?
[11:06] <ignas> i am fixing translations for my project which leads to separation of some pot files into some smaller ones, and it kind of makes the process a lot more cumbersome ...
[11:06] <carlos> ignas: it's just for the first import so we check that the template will get updates as the software that use it evolves, once we approve it, new uploads are handled automatically
[11:08] <danilos> carlos: can we actually improve this somewhat by allowing product owners to upload templates which would be automatically approved?
[11:09] <carlos> danilos: I guess we could do it when there is already a .pot file imported for that product
[11:09] <danilos> carlos: you don't think we can trust the 'basename' of a POT file for the template name?
[11:10] <danilos> (we are already doing the above, no?)
[11:10] <carlos> yeah
[11:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82249 in launchpad "Actions menu items should have action-y bullets" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82249
[11:10] <carlos> danilos: what I say is just that a .pot file should be importe, even if it's for another context
[11:10] <danilos> carlos: ok, makes sense
[11:10] <carlos> that tells us that we did the validation that the developers want to use Rosetta officially
[11:11] <carlos> that's the only reason we require validation from our side, the basename is not really an issue
[11:11] <carlos> ignas: I just approved your template
[11:11] <ignas> carlos: thank you very much
[11:12] <carlos> n
[11:12] <carlos> np
[11:16] <ignas> carlos: is there no way to arange it so that this validation would be performed only once? i mean if i have schooltool.pot schooltool.commendation.pot and i am adding schooltool.demographics.pot is the validation still needed?
[11:16] <carlos> ignas: atm, yes, it is
[11:16] <carlos> ignas: but as danilo suggested, we are going to improve that so you don't need it
[11:17] <ignas> nice :)
[11:17] <carlos> is good for you and less work for us ;-)
[11:38] <LarstiQ> moin
[11:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82259 in launchpad "milestone list not sorted" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82259
[12:41] <Hobbsee> jamesh: heya.  i updated https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/82230 - i'm not sure if it's clear or not though.
[12:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82230 in launchpad "Timezone for Australia/sydney should read AEST, not EST" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[12:41] <Hobbsee> excuse my idiocy!
[12:42] <jamesh> Hobbsee: we're using pytz for time zone support in Launchpad
[12:43] <jamesh> Hobbsee: which is a conversion of the standard Olson time zone database used under Linux
[12:44] <jamesh> so we display "EST" because the Olson DB does too
[12:44] <Hobbsee> jamesh: ie, i should move the bug to be under that, on LP?
[12:45] <jamesh> Hobbsee: well, they don't consider it a bug really
[12:45] <Hobbsee> why?  est is a totally different timezone
[12:45] <Hobbsee> that's like...eastern standard time isnt it?
[12:46] <jamesh> Hobbsee: in fact it was brought up on the mailing list a few days ago: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz <- look at "Acronyms for Australian Time Zone Seasons" messages
[12:46] <Fujitsu> Yeah, AEST != EST...
[12:46] <jamesh> Hobbsee: well, the time zone for the eastern states is Eastern Standard Time / Eastern Summer Time
[12:47] <jamesh> Fujitsu: AEST == EST for some values of EST
[12:47] <Fujitsu> Only within AU, and then rarely.
[12:47] <jamesh> and AEST == AEST for some values of AEST, for that matter ...
[12:47] <Hobbsee> jamesh: for which values?  i wouldnt have thought that time on the us coast matched any of the au timezones
[12:47] <jamesh> Fujitsu: the point I am making is that the time zone abbreviations are not unique
[12:48] <Fujitsu> But AEST is the standard.
[12:48] <Hobbsee> jamesh: that's the standard all across australia.  no one i've ever met uses EST here, because it always refers to a US timezone.
[12:48] <jamesh> Hobbsee: EST can expand to either "Eastern Standard Time" or "Eastern Summer Time", so EST isn't necessarily the same as EST :)
[12:48] <Hobbsee> ah right, yes
[12:48] <jamesh> Hobbsee: I see both used about equally
[12:49] <Hobbsee> jamesh: ah, you're an aussie.
[12:49] <jamesh> yep
[12:50] <jamesh> Fujitsu: part of the issue here is that there isn't a standard
[12:51] <jamesh> if the abbreviations are this much of a trouble, I'd prefer to update our date formatters to use numeric time zone offsets
[12:51] <jamesh> e.g. +1000 and +1100
[12:53] <jamesh> The TZ support has been in there for almost 2 years
[12:54] <Hobbsee> yes, but i always assumed it was EST, couldnt convert that, and so ignored it
[12:55] <jamesh> Hobbsee: for reference, here are the comments in the australian time zone source file: http://rafb.net/p/HMw6Ca61.html
[12:58] <Hobbsee> jamesh: cool.  interesting.   
[12:59] <jamesh> Hobbsee: given this, is there anything further you think Launchpad should do, separate from the upstream Olson time zone database?
[12:59] <Fujitsu> I've not heard `summer time' used outside the US. I've only heard `daylight (savings) time' here...
[01:00] <jamesh> Fujitsu: actually, "daylight saving time" (and the corresponding abbreviations like EDT) are from the US
[01:00] <Hobbsee> jamesh: i dont know.  maybe say "local time" 
[01:00] <Hobbsee> avoid the whole issue, maybe
[01:00] <jamesh> Fujitsu: all the legislation you get over here says summer time
[01:01] <Fujitsu> But I've never heard a human refer to it as anything other than "daylight (savings) time"
[01:02] <jamesh> Hobbsee: where abouts?  we display times all over the place in Launchpad
[01:03] <Hobbsee> jamesh: comments, build/publish times.  that's where i noticed it
[01:04] <jamesh> I'll leave the bug open, but add some notes about the discussion here
[01:04] <Hobbsee> okay
[01:13] <jamesh> Hobbsee: I'll see what mpt thinks tomorrow
[01:13] <stu1> Fujitsu: AEST will not be standard under Unix until a) The Australian government says 'this is correct' or b) a particular net.god dies of old age or c) distros take the matter into their own hands and override the upstream database.
[01:13] <Hobbsee> jamesh: okay, cool.  local time would be the least ambigous i expect.
[01:16] <stub> (but even then, there are other clashes like Israel Standard Time and Indian Standard Time so timezone abbreviations will still not be unique)
[01:16] <Hobbsee> of course.  
[01:16] <Hobbsee> but that's different
[01:17] <Hobbsee> because Israel or Indian timezones arent as well known
[01:17] <Hobbsee> stub: and arent "default" timezones, per se.  whereas the US ones are
[01:17] <stub> They are in India and Israel :-)
[01:18] <Hobbsee> well, sure.  i meant globally though
[01:18] <stub> I would vote for leaving out 'localtime' or the tz abbreviation entirely, and having a mouse over that gives the fill timestamp and the full timezone name aka. Australia/Melbourne
[01:19] <Hobbsee> as in, someone in europe hears EST, and automatically thinks the US.  not australia.  israel or indian time arent anywhere near as well known
[01:19] <stub> There are more Indians than Americans and Australians combined :-)
[01:19] <Hobbsee> heh, true
[01:19] <lifeless> 'well known' must have new meaning for you ;)
[01:20] <stub> I believe Hinglish will soon be the most widely spoken version of English (if that isn't already the case)
[01:20] <Hobbsee> lifeless: :)
[01:20] <stub> Oops... I appear to be avoiding work
[02:56] <rolando-ve> Hello!
[02:56] <SteveA> barry: hi
[02:56] <rolando-ve> May anybody halp me please
[02:56] <rolando-ve> help me, (sorry)
[02:57] <rolando-ve> in fact I think that kiko can help me
[02:58] <rolando-ve> Who is a LaunchPad Administrator?
[02:58] <SteveA> rolando-ve: just say what it is you want help with, and if someone who can help is listening, they'll talk to you
[02:58] <rolando-ve> This is tha case, look this https://launchpad.net/~lsm
[02:59] <rolando-ve> This is the Spanish Documentation Proyect,
[02:59] <rolando-ve> Well the Owern Broke the Code Of Cunduct
[03:00] <rolando-ve> Then we wanna give the owrn proyect to other member
[03:01] <rolando-ve> in fact, if you see https://launchpad.net/~quidam- how is the actual owner, you can see that say, "First I used Ubuntu, but now I'm a Debian User,"
[03:02] <rolando-ve> Later say some Bad word! I propose to erase this user too!
[03:02] <rolando-ve> He cover his face in the Avatar, but you can see what he do with his finger
[03:03] <rolando-ve> I, like Ubuntu-ve Lider, Deactivate him from our team 
[03:04] <rolando-ve> I know about Efrain Valles (https://launchpad.net/~effie-jayx) woh is a Englsih teacher and can take the control of the project
[03:05] <rolando-ve> I propose him too, to be the Owner or Administrator
[03:06] <rolando-ve> SteveA, ??
[03:06] <rolando-ve> Can you help us?
[03:07] <rolando-ve> Proyect = Project (Sorry Again) :P
[03:09] <matsubara> rolando-ve: did you try to contact the owner asking him to hand over ownership to another user?
[03:12] <rolando-ve> matsubara,  Yes, but I don't know why his conduct was not good. And say that all about Ubuntu SUCKS
[03:13] <rolando-ve> In fact, you can see in his page of the Launchpad, that usa very HARD words!
[03:14] <rolando-ve> In Venezuela, somes Debian Users, don't like the Ubuntu Users, 
[03:15] <rolando-ve> Is not rasonable, when think that Mark use Debian like base to Ubuntu,
[03:16] <rolando-ve> In fact, I think that his action is very xtreme but, what Can we do? Just Work!
[03:19] <rolando-ve> He don't Be respectful. he don't Be collaborative, and don't Step down considerately
[03:20] <rolando-ve> therefor I propose the change of owner to effi_jayx 
[03:20] <rolando-ve> We just wanna work, 
[03:24] <matsubara> rolando-ve: well, I suggest you to file a ticket https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+addticket explaining what happened and I'll ask an admin to take a look.
[03:25] <rolando-ve> Ok! Thanks matsubara 
[04:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82292 in soyuz "change-override.py -S help is wrong" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82292
[04:45] <kiko> hey mrevell 
[05:48] <mrevell> kiko-fud: Sorry, been in a meeting with Stevea and ddaa
[06:17] <kiko-fud> mrevell, awww
[06:18] <carlos__> see you!
[06:22] <mrevell> kiko: Do you have time for a call?
[06:22] <kiko> mrevell, why ee ess
[06:22] <mrevell> :) Shall I grab use the number of the wiki?
[06:22] <kiko> call a number that ends in 0125
[06:22] <mrevell> ok
[06:24] <mrevell> Is it likely that someone other than you will answer?
[06:24] <kiko> it is likely that a secretary will answer, yes
[06:24] <mrevell> kiko: I spoke to a lady and, unfortunately, I don't speak any Portugese.
[06:24] <kiko> that's what usually happens in offices
[06:25] <kiko> well, she speaks some english but you need to try first
[06:27] <mrevell> kiko: I think I'm on hold
[06:27] <kiko> mrevell, no, you're not. :-)
[06:27] <kiko> the line is free
[06:27] <kiko> did she say se would transfer?
[06:27] <mrevell> Not that I understood
[06:28] <kiko> try again?
[06:28] <mrevell> I'll try again
[06:28] <kiko> did she say anything? :)
[06:30] <oojah> This is a great conversation :)
[06:30] <mrevell> kiko: I'm just checking my phone is working by calling someone in the same room
[06:30] <kiko> oojah, we provide entertainment free of charge too
[06:49] <DarkSun88> Hi
[06:53] <kiko> ho
[06:53] <LaserJock> hi kiko and mrevell 
[07:04] <mrevell> LaserJock: on a call, brb
[07:04] <LaserJock> np
[07:13] <EmxBA> hi, i have 1989 karma points now, but i had more than 160000 this morning, what's the problem? ???
[07:14] <EmxBA> is this karma system changed somehow?
[07:14] <EmxBA> https://launchpad.net/~emxba/+karma
[07:14] <EmxBA> look at http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:lPqZV07zuDIJ:https://launchpad.net/~emxba+emxba&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&client=firefox-a
[07:15] <radix> EmxBA: huh, interesting, my karma was also reduced by some orders of magnitude, I guess it must have been a system-wide change
[07:15] <EmxBA> hah https://launchpad.net/~sabdfl 
[07:15] <EmxBA> mark shuttleworth had millions :)
[07:15] <salgado> yeah, there was a bug in the karma calculation which is fixed now
[07:16] <LaserJock> awesome
[07:16] <LaserJock> sane numbers
[07:16] <LaserJock> now we just need karma for uploaders :-)
[07:16] <EmxBA> no, sabdfl still has 43324, salgado 
[07:16] <salgado> not really the karma calculation --just the calculation of the caches
[07:17] <EmxBA> so will I have 170000 points or I'll remain on this ~1500?
[07:48] <EmxBA> what's with karma points? any explanation?
[07:53] <radix> EmxBA: I think you will stay at ~1500, according to what salgado said.
[07:53] <EmxBA> but is there any explanation of this? any launchpad.net ticket for launchpad? or wiki page? or even mail?
[07:55] <salgado> EmxBA, I'll sort out an official notification and make sure it's sent to all users
[07:55] <EmxBA> ok
[07:57] <jwendell> what happened with karmas?
[07:58] <EmxBA> there was a bug in the karma calculation which is fixed now, salgado will sort out an official notification and make sure it's sent to all users, jwendell 
[07:58] <jwendell> thanks, EmxBA 
[07:59] <jwendell> EmxBA, you mean that the number i'm seeing now is the right?
[08:01] <salgado> jwendell, yes, that's right
[08:01] <jwendell> salgado, wow, what a big change hehe
[08:02] <jwendell> salgado, but it's still bigger than gnome's bugzilla. the highest karma there is 27 :)
[08:02] <salgado> jwendell, the bug was causing the karma to increase by huge amounts every day. that's why we have this huge drop now
[08:03] <salgado> poor bugzilla. :p
[08:05] <jwendell> salgado, a doubt: see my profile: https://launchpad.net/~wendell 
[08:06] <jwendell> salgado, i have 3 support tickets. Why did i get 982 points related to support tracker?
[08:08] <salgado> jwendell, because of some balancing we do across categories. I think we have a bug reported for that
[08:08] <salgado> https://beta.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/72815
[08:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72815 in launchpad "Stop "rebalancing" karma, and base it on effort instead" [High,Needs info]   - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)
[08:09] <salgado> https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/72815, that is
[08:10] <EmxBA> so how are points now gained? one thousand karma points equals to what?
[08:11] <jkakar> My karma has dropped from ~350000 to 3607... I think I preferred it when it was "balanced"... ;b
[08:12] <oojah> jkakar: From what has been said here, that's a separate issue.
[08:12] <salgado> jkakar, it's still balanced. it's just not inflated anymore. ;)
[08:12] <pochu> karma... lol :)
[08:12] <pochu> new formula? :)
[08:12] <jkakar> salgado: Hehehe... my poor poor ego... ;)
[08:13] <jwendell> salgado, i guess it's better you put some karma information in topic :)
[08:13] <salgado> I'll find a way to introduce a bug similar to the one I fixed. but this time I'll make sure it doesn't cause any timeouts, so everybody will be happy and we'll never worry about it. :)
[08:13] <salgado> jwendell, yeah, we're going to do that soon. just cooking up a wiki page with more details
[08:17] <EmxBA> how are points now gained? how to get e.g. 1000 points? what's formula?
[08:18] <salgado> nothing changed on that
[08:20] <jwendell> salgado, is there any page like that (on gnome): http://bugzilla.gnome.org/page.cgi?id=points.html ?
[08:22] <salgado> jwendell, the way we calculate the total karma of a person is not yet settled. that said, all we have at this point is https://help.launchpad.net/KarmaCalculation
[08:29] <LaserJock> seems like multiple things going on
[08:29] <LaserJock> mrevell's wiki page suggest that too much karma was given since Oct 2006, but surely that doesn't explain that big of a drop
[08:30] <LaserJock> I personally would like to see log(karma), but it seems more complicated than that
[08:31] <EmxBA> but anyway, what's the formula for karma points?
[08:59] <radix> So, I remember mpt or someone complaining about the font size of the LP beta here... but I haven't found a bug about it yet. Should I file one?
[09:04] <matsubara> radix: yes, please.
[09:04] <radix> Ok :-)
[09:05] <radix> hmm, I guess that is the "launchpad" *product*?
[09:05] <kiko> yessss
[09:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #50664 in malone "When replying to a Needs Info bug, it should be possible to say "I provided the Info"" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/50664
[09:05] <matsubara> radix: if you're going to attach any screenshot please make the bug private.
[09:05] <radix> OK
[09:06] <matsubara> thanks radix 
[09:14] <radix> bug #82344
[09:14] <Ubugtu> Bug 82344 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/82344 is private
[09:14] <radix> hoorj ;)
[09:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82347 in launchpad "No link from poll [+options, +newoption, +edit]  pages to the main vote page" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82347
[10:59] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[11:00] <Hobbsee> hey mpt!
[11:01] <ajmitch> morning mpt 
[11:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82359 in launchpad "timeout when accessing ubuntu (distro)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82359
[11:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82362 in launchpad "report bug link broken" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82362
[11:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82363 in launchpad "pixelated favicon" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82363
[11:05] <mpt> hi Hobbsee and ajmitch 
[11:05] <mpt> hi Ubugtu 
[11:06] <mpt> Hugs and bugs all round
[11:07] <kiko-afk> mpt, you can NOT
[11:07] <kiko-afk> get away with not reviewing my popup dialog today
[11:07] <kiko-afk> I am serious, that branch is bitrotting to death as we speak
[11:07] <kiko-afk> help me land it
[11:13] <flacoste> mpt: do you know how merge from devel to ui-one-zero are handled?
[11:15] <mpt> flacoste, ooh, ooh, I know this one
[11:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82368 in malone "Usb keyboard doesn't work at log on" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82368
[11:16] <flacoste> mpt: yeah, I'm wondering about the big rename change, SteveA asked me to make sure it lands both on devel and ui-one-zero
[11:16] <flacoste> mpt: can you give me some hint in that area?
	There is no automatic merging between devel and ui one zero
	We need to merge from edge when we have changes to merge
	Later this week, we'll be branching off what runs in production on the fully public servers, onto its own branch
	and merging all of the UI work onto our mainline
[11:17] <mpt>  <SteveA>	so all development will be on the new UI, except for critical fixes required for production.
[11:17] <flacoste> ok, I should wait for this switch to occur then
[11:18] <mpt> flacoste, I'm not sure that waiting would help, if you need to land it on both
[11:18] <flacoste> that way, I'll be the one handling the possible conflicts instead of whoever will merge with edge
[11:18] <mpt> oh
[11:18] <mpt> ok
[11:19] <flacoste> thumper: for simple query like yours, i think it's really important
[11:19] <flacoste> thumper: sorry, not really important
[11:19] <mpt> kiko, yes sir, I was distracted by all those 1.0 reviews. I also have reviews to do for carlos and ddaa.
[11:19] <flacoste> thumper: but sometimes, it can help the query optimizer
[11:20] <flacoste> kiko: should I seek another reviewer for my tt-search-all branch? (no shame saying yes)
[11:20] <kiko> flacoste, I was about to start, boo
[11:23] <flacoste> kiko: don't let me stop you then!
[11:26] <kiko> I have acute overbranchitis
[11:26] <kiko> I have 5 branches with interesting features all half-done
[11:28] <flacoste> kiko: ADD-syndrom? :p
[11:29] <kiko> I guess
[11:39] <kiko> man firebug makes my browser SO SLOW
[11:52] <willys_fueguino> Can someone link me to how the karma points are distributed??
[11:54] <kiko> willys_fueguino, are you asking because of the reduction in karma that happened?
[11:55] <willys_fueguino> kiko: nop. But I'm learning to "contribute" by translating (that's the only thing that I can do)
[11:55] <willys_fueguino> and want to know how many point its for each translation
[11:55] <willys_fueguino> and how many for a "suggested translation"...
[11:55] <kiko> that's undisclosed 
[11:56] <kiko> but you can read a bit about karma here:
[11:57] <kiko> https://help.launchpad.net/KarmaCalculation
[11:57] <willys_fueguino> kiko: I wan't to join the ubuntu-spanish-translators team, but an ex member told me that to get in the team I have to translate for a month
[11:57] <kiko> https://help.launchpad.net/KarmaAdjustmentsJan07
[11:57] <kiko> I see
[11:57] <kiko> that's their policy
[11:58] <willys_fueguino> ufff... That's way too much to just join a team... it's not like they're gonna pay me...
[11:59] <willys_fueguino> I like to contribute but that's too much
[12:00] <willys_fueguino> kiko: what do you think of that?
[12:05] <kiko> willys_fueguino, you can still translate, and an approved translator will approve your work.
[12:05] <kiko> that's a normal workflow.
[12:06] <willys_fueguino> yes... that's what I do :-
[12:07] <willys_fueguino> It's not *that* rewarding to become a team member...
[12:07] <willys_fueguino> well thanx kiko...
[12:07] <willys_fueguino> I'll leave now
[12:07] <willys_fueguino> bytes!!