[12:39] <bhale> Mithrandir: could you please process beagle in new before herd3?
[02:55] <bddebian> Heya
[03:38] <Tonren> Hey guys, can anyone humor me for a few minutes while I ask a few questions about why Ubuntu networking works the way it does?
[03:39] <shackan> everybody's asleep and I'm not the right person to answer, but what do you mean ?
[03:41] <Tonren> shackan: Well, I've done a lot of configuring and re-configuring on multiple Ubuntu setups (server, desktop, laptop, etc.), and I've installed, been disgusted with and uninstalled numerous GUI helpers, and in general, I'm just a little fuzzy on why networking is such a pain in the ass on Ubuntu.
[03:41] <Tonren> (I don't have much experience with other distros, so it may be Linux in general, but I haven't heard nearly as many horror stories from users of other distros.)
[03:41] <Fujitsu> I find the GUIs (especially NetworkManager) to be fine.
[03:42] <Tonren> Fujitsu: NetworkManager *literally* became a nightmare for me.  I had so much trouble with it that it actually disturbed my sleep one night.
[03:42] <Fujitsu> I've not had trouble since 0.5 or so.
[03:42] <Tonren> It was slow, buggy, inconsistent, crash-prone and unclear.
[03:42] <Fujitsu> (which was ages ago)
[03:42] <Tonren> When I tried it again a few weeks ago, it still was.  :\
[03:42] <Fujitsu> I've never had it crash or be buggy.
[03:42] <Fujitsu> Nor slow...
[03:42] <shackan> Tonren, I have to agree on network manager
[03:42] <Tonren> I would create a "Home" location, but the next time I logged in, my location was "".  I tried changing it to "Home", but when it tried to configure eth0, it sat there for ten minutes and then crashed.
[03:43] <Fujitsu> Unsuitable in some cases, perhaps. But in quite a number of cases, it's great.
[03:43] <Fujitsu> Oh, that's not Network Manager...
[03:43] <shackan> but I've just saved three profiles and occasionally switch between them
[03:43] <Tonren> shackan: I couldn't even get it working right with two profiles.
[03:43] <Fujitsu> That's gnome-system-tools' network configuration thing, and the profiles are known to be totally screwed.
[03:44] <Tonren> Okay... so, gnome-system-tools' networking is the actual GUI thing, and NetworkManager is the systray applet.  Right?
[03:44] <Fujitsu> NetworkManager is completely independent from the g-s-t application.
[03:44] <shackan> well, the applet is just the NetworkManager applet, there's a daemon behind it
[03:44] <Fujitsu> It sits in the systray, but isn't a panel applet.
[03:45] <Tonren> Right, so there's a NetworkManager daemon and nm-applet.  Is that right?
[03:45] <Fujitsu> Correct.
[03:45] <Tonren> Anyway - I tried to get the systray applet working for about a week (I must have spent between 1 and 2 hours on it a day, in #ubuntu and browsing the forums), and it just would not play nice with any of my network connections.  The same story - lag, error.  Lag, crash.  Lag, lag, nothing.
[03:45] <Tonren> Manually configuring my network interfaces on teh command line has *always* worked flawlessly
[03:45] <Fujitsu> I've not had issues.
[03:46] <Fujitsu> It seems that NetworkManager and g-s-t behave fairly well together in Feisty, which is good.
[03:46] <Tonren> Once I login, I can do sudo -su; ifconfig eth0 up; dhclient -1 eth0; or ifconfig wlan0 up; iwconfig wlan0 ap any; iwconfig wlan0 essid any; dhclient -1 wlan0;
[03:46] <shackan> Tonren, that's still the only way to get it done right
[03:46] <shackan> (at least for me)
[03:46] <Tonren> Those two things are like charms - they ALWAYS work.  But as soon as I try to get anything configured *automatically*, be it through /etc/network/interfaces, or g-s-t or NM, everything goes to hell.
[03:46] <Tonren> shackan: Same here
[03:46] <Tonren> What shocks me is this.
[03:47] <mjg59> Could people please have this discussion somewhere else?
[03:47] <Fujitsu> mjg59, probably a good point.
[03:47] <mjg59> If there are specific bugs, please report them
[03:47] <mjg59> Mentioning them in here at this time of day isn't likely to result in any devs picking up on them
[03:47] <Tonren> mjg59: Sorry... I'm not sure where else to talk about this.  It's not *development*, per se, but it doesn't really belong in #ubuntu which is mainly a one-to-one support channel.
[03:48] <Tonren> shackan: Fujitsu: Are you guys both in #ubuntu-offtopic?
[03:48] <shackan> no way, irc is already a great waste of time per se, no need for offtopic channels :)
[03:49] <Tonren> shackan: That's what I think, too.  ;P
[03:49] <Tonren> mjg59: With all due respect, while our discussion isn't strictly dev-related, I don't think it is really negatively affecting the channel.
[03:50] <mjg59> Tonren: With all due respect, you're welcome to feel that :)
[03:50] <Hobbsee> uh oh, udev update.  wonder if it breaks
[03:50] <shackan> so we can stop it here and not bug mjg59 further, as far as I'm concerned some wonderkind needs to rewrite a g-s-t done right from scratch, and it's not going to happen, I'm happy typing commands, I don't care if my aunt can't configure her network, she's not using ubuntu anyway
[03:51] <Tonren> Wow.
[03:51] <mjg59> But the fact that the channel is fairly idle isn't a great excuse for off-topic discussion
[03:51] <Hobbsee> shackan: Tonren Fujitsu try #ubuntu-networking
[03:51] <Tonren> Fair enough.
[03:51] <Tonren> Hobbsee: Thank you.
[03:55] <Hobbsee> mjg59: yay, quiet :)
[04:03] <Hobbsee> mjg59: offhand, do you know who moderates kubuntu-devel?
[04:03] <Hobbsee> er, more like when i sent it
[04:03] <Hobbsee> ah, Riddell only
[04:37] <Hobbsee> yay, OK, we're not frozen yet
[05:54] <Hobbsee> any core devs around to sponsor an upload?
[05:55] <fabbione> morning
[05:55] <fabbione> Hobbsee: what package?
[05:56] <Hobbsee> fabbione: kopete
[05:56] <fabbione> Hobbsee: do you have a debdiff somewhere
[05:56] <fabbione> ?
[05:56] <Hobbsee> fabbione: yup.  http://wedontsleep.org/~sarah/kdenetwork.debdiff
[05:59] <fabbione> +--- kdenetwork/kopete/plugins/latex/kopete_latexconvertnew.sh	2007-01-30 15:07:41.000000000 +1100
[05:59] <fabbione> ++++ kdenetwork/kopete/plugins/latex/kopete_latexconvert.sh	2005-09-10 18:20:16.000000000 +1000
[05:59] <fabbione> +@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
[05:59] <fabbione> +-#!/bin/bash
[05:59] <fabbione> ++#!/bin/sh
[05:59] <fabbione> why not fixing the script to be POSIX shell compliant?
[05:59] <Hobbsee> argh, dammit.  i diff'd teh wrong way around there?
[05:59] <fabbione> that too..
[06:00] <Hobbsee> it doesnt work as /bin/sh
[06:00] <fabbione> right but that's because the script is not portable..
[06:00] <fabbione> why not fixing the script instead of forcing bash?
[06:01] <Hobbsee> hrm.  i suppose "lazyness" isnt a good answer
[06:01] <Hobbsee> neither is "i dont know how to"
[06:01] <Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/+bug/71665 is the corresponding bug
[06:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71665 in kdenetwork "Problem with kopetex" [Undecided,Fix committed]  
[06:11] <fabbione> Hobbsee: well i understand the bug, but it would be more wise to fix the script in the long run.. anyway it's ok to change sh to bash.. 
[06:11] <fabbione> it's just better to make the script portable as general case and where possible
[06:12] <Hobbsee> fabbione: yeah, of course.  i sent it upstream.  i'm not versed in latex though
[06:12] <fabbione> i stay away from latex.. it sounds too much like some BDSM thingy
[06:13] <Hobbsee> hehehe, *exactly*
[06:15] <fabbione> well ping me when you have the debdiff
[06:16] <Hobbsee> fabbione: the updated one with /bin/bash and /bin/sh around the right way?  i'ts there now.
[06:16] <Hobbsee> [16:08]  * Hobbsee updates the diff to be the right way around.
[06:16] <Hobbsee> was there 8 min ago :)
[06:16] <fabbione> oh well i thought you were still doing it
[06:16] <Hobbsee> nope
[06:17] <fabbione> hey i just woke up and didn't finish my first cup of STFU yet..
[06:17] <Hobbsee> hehe :)
[06:18] <fabbione> did you fix the patch manually?
[06:18] <Hobbsee> yeah
[06:18] <Hobbsee> then tested it
[06:18] <Hobbsee> ie, it does patch
[06:19] <fabbione> Hobbsee: do you realize that ubuntu3 has been uploaded by Jonhatan?
[06:19] <fabbione> patch -p1 < ../kdenetwork.debdiff 
[06:19] <fabbione> patching file debian/control
[06:19] <fabbione> Hunk #2 FAILED at 130.
[06:19] <fabbione> Hunk #3 succeeded at 141 (offset 1 line).
[06:19] <fabbione> Hunk #4 succeeded at 276 (offset 1 line).
[06:19] <fabbione> 1 out of 4 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/control.rej
[06:19] <fabbione> patching file debian/changelog
[06:19] <fabbione> Hunk #1 FAILED at 1.
[06:19] <fabbione> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/changelog.rej
[06:20] <Hobbsee> fabbione: dammit.  didnt know it existed, it hasnt been published.
[06:20] <fabbione> well i just did apt-get source kopete
[06:20] <fabbione> and that's what i got
[06:20] <fabbione> it is published.. i am sure about it
[06:20] <fabbione> otherwise it wouldn't be on my local mirror
[06:20] <Hobbsee> fabbione: what was the full versoin?
[06:20] <fabbione> kdenetwork_3.5.6-0ubuntu3.diff.gz
[06:21] <fabbione> that's what i have here
[06:21] <Hobbsee> dammit.  not on the gb. mirror yet
[06:21] <fabbione> use archive.ubuntu.com directly
[06:21] <fabbione> gb. is a mirror
[06:21] <fabbione> gotta go for a while now...
[06:21] <Hobbsee> thought that gb. was the data centre
[06:21] <Hobbsee> okay
[06:21] <Hobbsee> will have to redo that patch anyway.
[06:21] <Hobbsee> sod.
[06:21] <fabbione> Hobbsee: send me an updated debdiff and i will upload later
[06:21] <fabbione> i need to feed my son :)
[06:22] <Hobbsee> fair enough :)
[07:59] <pitti> Good morning
[07:59] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[07:59] <Fujitsu> Hi pitti, and thanks for the azureus acceptance.
[08:02] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:07] <pitti> hey ajmitch 
[08:07] <pitti> moin Fujitsu 
[08:17] <Mithrandir> slomo: tomboy> please upload.
[08:17] <Mithrandir> bhale: new beagle> will do
[08:49] <pitti> cjwatson: I need a minute to talk with you about bug 78862
[08:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78862 in gnome-volume-manager "automatically mounts created file systems on live CD" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78862
[08:51] <pitti> cjwatson: in particular, I'd like to know whether/how ubiquity disables g-v-m and unmounts already mounted partitions
[08:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: it pokes some gconf key.
[08:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: right
[08:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: do you know whether it unmounts hard disks from /media?
[08:53] <pitti> before attempting to repartition
[08:54] <Mithrandir> I'd think so, but I'm not sure.
[09:16] <dholbach> good morning
[09:18] <pitti> hey dholbach 
[09:19] <dholbach> hey pitti
[09:30] <pitti> hey seb128! *hug*
[09:30] <seb128> hey hey pitti
[09:33] <seb128> grumpf
[09:33] <seb128> most of backtraces are "??"ish
[09:33] <pitti> that's so weird
[09:33] <seb128> yeah :/
[09:46] <Treenaks> is there a way to find which module would be loaded if I inserted a device with USB id 'X' ?
[09:46] <Treenaks> or should I just modinfo everything and grep?
[09:51] <pitti> seb128: do you want to upload edgy-proposed nautilus for bug 73021?
[09:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73021 in nautilus "fm_tree_model_unref_node fails ref_count > 0 assert" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/73021
[09:52] <seb128> pitti: yep, thank you for the reminder, Colin replied during the sprint and I didn't have an edgy box handy to do it
[09:53] <pitti> seb128: great; please update the description a bit for people who are looking at that bug
[09:53] <seb128> well
[09:54] <dholbach> ogra_: did you look into the pulseaudio fix?
[09:54] <seb128> pitti: "nautilus crash in random circumstance for users, see upstream number of duplicate"?
[09:55] <seb128> pitti: I'm not sure on what is useful to the description out of the fact that's a crasher and upstream is getting many duplicates which means it happens for many people
[09:55] <pitti> seb128: something like that, 'nautilus crashed unbearably often'
[09:55] <seb128> ok
[09:56] <pitti> seb128: I'm just reviewing the current huge pile of SRUs and see what can be cleaned up
[09:57] <seb128> pitti: updated description is ok?
[09:58] <pitti> seb128: WFM, thanks!
[09:58] <seb128> pitti: np, package uploaded as well
[09:58] <seb128> thank you for the reminder ;)
[09:59] <pitti> will process it in a minute
[09:59] <seb128> excellent
[10:03] <pitti> LaserJock: ping
[10:04] <pitti> LaserJock: can you please upload your fix to bug 75021 to edgy-proposed?
[10:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75021 in python-imaging "SRU: python-imaging missing dependencies (edgy)" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75021
[10:05] <pitti> ah, no, you can't
[10:07] <pitti> hi mvo
[10:07] <LaserJock> pitti: nope, I can't, it isn't already in the queue for ubuntu-archive approval?
[10:07] <pitti> LaserJock: no, I'm just preparing/doing the upload
[10:08] <pitti> LaserJock: it has been approved a month ago
[10:08] <LaserJock> hmm, I had thought ajmitch had uploaded it for me
[10:08] <LaserJock> oops
[10:08] <ajmitch> I thought I had, maybe not?
[10:08] <pitti> LaserJock: uploaded, I'll accept the -proposed one in some minutes
[10:08] <ajmitch> sorry, LaserJock 
[10:09] <LaserJock> ajmitch: np
[10:09] <pitti> LaserJock: but please do the QA bits
[10:09] <LaserJock> pitti: thanks
[10:09] <LaserJock> pitti: will do
[10:09] <ajmitch> pitti: so how much are we allowed to bug you about archive stuff? is it back to regular archive days for people?
[10:09] <pitti> argh, phone
[10:15] <pitti> ajmitch: I shall mainly care for SRUs now, but also doing syncs etc.
[10:16] <pitti> ajmitch: Mithrandir, Keybuk, cjwatson, seb128 and me need to sit down and do a new 'archive days' schedule and talk about responsibilities
[10:16] <ajmitch> ok
[10:18] <pitti> mvo: can the feisty task be closed on bug 75273? (I assume so, SRUs should be fixed in feisty first, but still...)
[10:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75273 in apt "Apt constantly sigsevs on edgy" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75273
[10:19] <pitti> mvo: also, please upload your fix for bug 47044
[10:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47044 in apt "apt cant work with disable proxy" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/47044
[10:20] <mvo> pitti: I updated the bug status for bug 75273
[10:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75273 in apt "Apt constantly sigsevs on edgy" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75273
[10:20] <mvo> pitti: and will now do bug 47044
[10:28] <tepsipakki> rodarvus: ping, i810 on dapper
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: urgh @ the patch for bug 56610 
[10:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56610 in firefox "Automatic search from address entry doesn't work anymore" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56610
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: well, it's basically "trust upstream and the fact it's working in feisty for months now"
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: and epiphany browser is not the default browser anyway
[10:31] <pitti> seb128: first that, and second the bug doesn't seem to fall into the 'the sky has fallen' category we usually fix for stables
[10:32] <seb128> well, it fall into the "it really annoys epiphany users and they would appreciate to get it fixed"
[10:32] <pitti> seb128: ok, if you are confident that it works, I'll trust you
[10:33] <seb128> as said it has got plenty of testing on feisty
[10:33] <seb128> (and other distro which updated to GNOME 2.16.2)
[10:33] <pitti> seb128: it's just that the patch itself is unverifyable (e. g. domWindowPrivate ptr is not checked for NULL, etc)
[10:33] <pitti> ok
[10:33] <seb128> well, if you prefer we can drop the update
[10:33] <pitti> seb128: well, go ahead then, having it in -proposed would be nice
[10:33] <seb128> but I think it's not a real risk and it'll make users happy
[10:33] <seb128> ok, thank you
[10:38] <pitti> mvo: can you please add proper backport tasks to bug 68553, point out the feisty status, and explain whether both the dapper/edgy or just the dapper update of python-apt is needed?
[10:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68553 in update-manager "Dapper upgrade to Edgy: Frozen dist-upgrade and failed second run (in Finnish locales" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/68553
[10:38] <visik7> hi
[10:39] <visik7> is there any plan to build a package of vmware-server like the one for vmware-player ?
[10:39] <visik7> for feisty ?
[10:39] <pythonmaster> hie everyone
[10:39] <Chipzz> vmware player doesn't even work with feisty or edgy
[10:39] <pythonmaster> i have a big problem
[10:39] <Chipzz> not the current release
[10:39] <Chipzz> the joys of dbus crap
[10:40] <pythonmaster> i want to upgrade dapper to edgy from live-install cd 
[10:40] <pythonmaster> someone can help me?
[10:40] <pythonmaster> this is very important
[10:40] <visik7> Chipzz: there is the package for vmware-player 
[10:40] <pythonmaster> coz i amke some mistakes and that now my dapper look like very bed
[10:41] <visik7> is it not working ?
[10:41] <pythonmaster> plz help me i am googling for hours
[10:41] <Chipzz> visik7: that doesn't work
[10:41] <siretart> could anyone please point me to the procedures on how to edit the Maintainer field when merging debian packages with ubuntu-local changes?
[10:41] <visik7> oh ok
[10:41] <pythonmaster> how can i upgrade from edgy cd?
[10:42] <thom> pythonmaster: #ubuntu is the channel for support requests
[10:42] <pythonmaster> but they arent help me !!
[10:42] <visik7> strange a friend of mine use vmware player (the packaged version
[10:42] <pythonmaster> its very strong problem
[10:43] <thom> pythonmaster: it doesn't matter. this is not the correct channel for support.
[10:43] <pythonmaster> you thing so simple
[10:43] <siretart> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
[10:43] <pythonmaster> and easy
[10:43] <Chipzz> visik7: it works on dapper. not on edgy or feisty
[10:43] <visik7> let me see
[10:45] <pitti> mvo: FYI, I added some more comments to bug 68553
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68553 in update-manager "Dapper upgrade to Edgy: Frozen dist-upgrade and failed second run (in Finnish locales" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/68553
[10:46] <Chipzz> pythonmaster: no, people here are trying to get work done. it's as simple as that
[10:46] <mvo> pitti: thanks, I'm updating the diff now
[10:46] <visik7> Chipzz: actually here works on edgy 
[10:46] <visik7> I'm running it right now
[10:48] <mvo> pitti: bug 68553 updated
[10:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68553 in update-manager "Dapper upgrade to Edgy: Frozen dist-upgrade and failed second run (in Finnish locales" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/68553
[10:49] <pythonmaster> hmm
[10:49] <pitti> mvo: apt/dapper-proposed accepted
[10:50] <mvo> pitti: thanks!
[10:50] <pitti> mvo: the update-manager task is for the dist-upgrader patch?
[10:51] <mvo> pitti: yes
[10:51] <pitti> mvo: and it's not fixed and tested in feisty yet?
[10:51] <mvo> pitti: its fixed and tested in feisty, let me update the tasks. I used only milone targets for those bugs
[10:51] <pitti> sorry for being anal about it, but I'd like to see the bug statuses in good shape so that I can keep track properly
[10:52] <mvo> it was when the "backport to release" link disappeared
[10:52] <mvo> and I had not yet discovered the new one
[10:52] <pitti> 'target to release'
[10:52] <mvo> I know
[10:52] <mvo> now
[10:53] <mvo> pitti: being strict about this is fine, I will update the status
[10:54] <visik7> Chipzz: I can't find any bug on launchpad about problems running vmware-player in edgy or feisty, and actually I haven't any problem with vmware-player
[11:04] <pitti> mvo: ok, if you wish, please go ahead with 68553
[11:06] <mvo> pitti: thanks, I uploaded the package to dapper-proposed and edgy-proposed
[11:06] <Mithrandir> mvo: care to poke at 77620 today?
[11:08] <Mithrandir> siretart: regarding your openarena sync requests, they were done over a week ago, they've just not been NEWed.
[11:08] <mvo> Mithrandir: yes
[11:14] <siretart> Mithrandir: oh. Sorry, I didn't notice that NEW processing is currently lagging a bit
[11:25] <cjwatson> visik7: the live/desktop CD doesn't support upgrades; you need the alternate install CD for that
[11:26] <cjwatson> pitti: I set /desktop/gnome/volume_manager/automount_drives and /desktop/gnome/volume_manager/automount_media to false
[11:26] <pitti> cjwatson: right
[11:26] <cjwatson> pitti: I don't believe anything unmounts stuff from /media
[11:26] <pitti> cjwatson: I added a bug comment, it seems to be an inconsistent handling of gconf key setting in ubiquity
[11:27] <cjwatson> hmmm
[11:27] <cjwatson> it's not impossible I guess, but that's really really weird
[11:28] <cjwatson> it's definitely done in code common to both auto and manual partitioning
[11:28] <cjwatson> pitti: want to eyeball it for me? ubiquity/frontend/gtkui.py in the ubiquity source package, search for 'def progress_loop'
[11:29] <cjwatson> that's the only function that calls install.Install() which is what actually copies stuff to disk, so it's definitely called
[11:29] <pitti> cjwatson: will do, after breakfast; thanks
[11:29] <cjwatson> pitti: oh, would g-v-m notice partitions being created even before filesystems are created?
[11:30] <cjwatson> pitti: gparted will create the partition and then partman will mkfs ...
[11:30] <cjwatson> but the gconf fiddling is done in between those two
[11:32] <cjwatson> I think the right answer is probably to disable g-v-m for the duration of ubiquity
[11:33] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: what do you think about turning the new partitioner on by default for Herd 3?
[11:33] <cjwatson> we talked about it briefly at Oslo - the more testing it gets early, the better
[11:33] <cjwatson> but its UI is still incomplete
[11:35] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: how incomplete is it?
[11:35] <cjwatson> it's got the partition list but no pretty disk UI at the top
[11:36] <cjwatson> so it's basically "double/right-click on items in this here listbox to do stuff"
[11:36] <cjwatson> I'd suggest trying it out - ubiquity --new-partitioner
[11:37] <Mithrandir> you want to test it so we can find out about stability problems, I presume?
[11:37] <Mithrandir> since testing the UI wouldn't be useful at this point
[11:37] <cjwatson> well, half the UI is there
[11:37] <cjwatson> but yes, basically
[11:38] <cjwatson> the underlying partman interaction is roughly the way I want it, modulo optimisation and features
[11:38] <cjwatson> so if that's breaking for people, I'd like to know
[11:38] <Mithrandir> ok
[11:38] <cjwatson> maybe a couple of core-devs other than me should try it first
[11:39] <Mithrandir> I could try it in a bit
[11:44] <cjwatson> pitti: I've committed an alleged fix, but I'm in the London office today and I'm not sure I have any means to test it
[11:45] <cjwatson> it's in sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubiquity/trunk/
[11:49] <mdz> seb128: thanks for looking after my bug 82153.  who is maintaining ubuntulooks now, if anyone?
[11:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82153 in gnome-panel "[apport]  gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV (dup-of: 66222)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82153
[11:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66222 in ubuntulooks "gnome panel segfault/crash " [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66222
[11:50] <seb128> mdz: no real maintainers, the guys who work on it at the London sprint last year fix a bug every now and then and that's about it
[11:54] <mvo> pitti: apport-gtk crashs currently and when I close it, I get a crash again and the dialog pops up
[11:55] <mvo> pitti: hm, clicking on report problem makes it crash too
[11:56] <pitti> mvo: traceback appreciated
[12:11] <mvo> pitti: bug #82267
[12:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82267 in apport "apport-gtk keeps crashing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82267
[12:11] <mvo> pitti: I leave it in the state for now if you want me to test anything
[12:12] <pitti> mvo: great, thank you!
[12:17] <pitti> argh, 18 unapproved things in dapper-updates
[12:17] <Mithrandir> you can probably reject most of it, if it hasn't gone through the usual process.
[12:18] <pitti> right, will cross-check with bugs
[12:18] <pitti> cjwatson: just took a look at the ubiquity commit; I agree that it seems safer to disable gvm entirely while ubiquity runs
[12:19] <pitti> cjwatson: folks can still mount their USB stick manually by clicking on the icon if they really want
[12:32] <Hobbsee> pitti: at the kopete removal request - the kopete source that was used to build kopete-dev.  i think the kopete from that package has been superceded from the package built from kdenetwork
[12:33] <bhale> Mithrandir: thanks!
[12:33] <pitti> Hobbsee: ah, I see, kopete is now built from kdenetwork, too
[12:33] <Hobbsee> pitti: indeed.  
[12:33] <pitti> Hobbsee: alright, will remove the entire source package then
[12:33] <Hobbsee> pitti: we forked, then added it back
[12:34] <Hobbsee> pitti: as upstream was using an ancient version of kopete with lots of bugs in it, and distributing it with kde.
[12:34] <pitti> Hobbsee: can you please put that into the bug report?
[12:34] <Hobbsee> pitti: done
[12:35] <Riddell> well, upstream did a separate release which we packaged
[12:36] <Riddell> Hobbsee: kopete-meanwhile source and binary packages are also obsolete if you want to file a bug to remove them
[12:36] <pitti> Hobbsee, Riddell: just add that to the same bug report, since it's related
[12:37] <Hobbsee> Riddell: that's in mainstream kopete now, isnt it?
[12:37] <Riddell> Hobbsee: yes
[12:37] <Hobbsee> cool
[12:37] <Hobbsee> pitti: done
[12:38] <pitti> cjwatson: there are some installer-ish old dapper-updates uploads which haven't gone through SRU (apt-setup, germinate, installation-report, kickseed); what shall I do with them?
[12:43] <heno> Gah, what to do with people filing their own tracker bugs? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-iso-tests/+bug/82248
[12:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82248 in ubuntu-iso-tests "20070130: amd64, desktop, live, no network (vmware)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[12:44] <heno> It's well intended, just not quite right, Mithrandir ^
[12:44] <heno> I guess I should close it with some helpful advice
[12:55] <cjwatson> pitti: probably reject them, I'll put them through the proper process if necessary
[12:58] <pitti> cjwatson: alright
[12:58] <pitti> cjwatson: shall I keep debdiffs for you, or do you have them?
[12:59] <jwendell> will feisty be LTS?
[01:01] <Hobbsee> jwendell: no
[01:04] <jwendell> thanks, Hobbsee 
[01:10] <maswan> will feisty+n be LTS?
[01:10] <ogra_> maswan, fsvo n :)
[01:11] <Treenaks> ogra_: and n>1 ;)
[01:12] <maswan> Well, is it known that n will be >1 yet? How about >2?
[01:14] <maswan> It came up in a discussion recently, how long we should stay off backporting newer kernels to dapper in the hope that there will be a new lts "soon". :)
[01:15] <Mithrandir> personally, I think feisty+2.  Bigger will cause transition problems for organisations which need a bit of time to test the new one.
[01:28] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: this morning's livefs failed due to ubiquity-frontend-gtk, care to investigate?
[01:29] <elmo> Mithrandir: he'd have to be able to boot his machine first ;-)
[01:30] <Mithrandir> elmo: ah, he's in London today.  I forgot.
[01:36] <mjg59> elmo: I ought to be getting hold of an MBP shortly, so I'll be able to deal with most of the remaining issues
[01:41] <cjwatson> pitti: it's ok, I've got them all
[01:42] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: already dealt with - will upload shortly
[01:42] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: (missing /usr/share/apport/ubiquity.py in the ubiquity binary)
[01:43] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: had a chance to check out the new partitioner?
[01:43] <cjwatson> maswan: it will be >1
[01:44] <pitti> cjwatson: I prepared and tested new dapper langpacks (we need to re-roll the -base packages, because the current update tarballs from Rosetta are missing lots of stuff); do you have some time in the next days to walk me through the process of uploading/silently approving?
[01:44] <pitti> s/approving/accepting/
[01:45] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: no, sorry.   I'll do that now.
[01:46] <maswan> Mithrandir: that will be good for us yes, >2 will probably become a bit too long
[01:46] <maswan> cjwatson: *nods*
[01:54] <cjwatson> pitti: probably not today, but tomorrow, yes
[01:54] <pitti> cjwatson: thanks
[01:55] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: shall I upload ubiquity now to fix livefs generation, or wait for a new-partitioner decision? I haven't tested the fix for bug 78862 :(
[01:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78862 in ubiquity "automatically mounts created file systems on live CD on manual partitioning" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78862
[01:56] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: but the fix for 78862 should be trivial?
[01:56] <cjwatson> it's relatively simple but involved shuffling code around to completely different places
[01:56] <Mithrandir> ok
[01:56] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I'm still rsyncing down the images, so if it's ok for you to wait an hour or so before a decision on the partitioner, that'd be good.
[01:57] <cjwatson> sure
[01:57] <fabbione> cjwatson: i think #81782 might be either udev or something in the installer.. would you mind (when you have time) to just look at it?
[01:59] <cjwatson> fabbione: what's the correct module for this device?
[02:00] <cjwatson> r8169 apparently
[02:01] <fabbione> cjwatson: seems like it yes
[02:01] <fabbione> the strange thing is that there is an interface entry but no auto?
[02:01] <cjwatson> you're very quick to claim it isn't a kernel bug
[02:01] <mvo> could someone please approve g-a-i for feisty? I uploaded it 4min after main was frozen and it contains some fixes for the EasyCodecInstall spec
[02:01] <cjwatson> it's entirely possible that it is
[02:02] <Mithrandir> mvo: looking
[02:02] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: how frozen is main?
[02:02] <seb128> Hobbsee: frozen like uploads need review to be accepted
[02:03] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: depends on what you want to upload.
[02:03] <fabbione> cjwatson: well d-i or the installer did find the interface and configure it. The driver works if configured manually or with dhcp (when adding auto eth0)
[02:03] <fabbione> cjwatson: the driver is in the udeb
[02:03] <cjwatson> fabbione: the kernel emits udebs. if the udebs are wrong then it's a kernel bug.
[02:03] <Hobbsee> seb128: well, yeah.  was more a question of "how much persuading will be needed for it to be reviewed, instead of straight declined
[02:03] <Hobbsee> "
[02:03] <cjwatson> you do not have the evidence to claim that it is not a kernel bug
[02:04] <fabbione> cjwatson: so for what i can see it's not a kernel bug. tho i might be wrong.. but the last comment was referred to brian reassining it to the kernel
[02:04] <seb128> Hobbsee: well, what sort of change do you want to get accepted and why?
[02:04] <Hobbsee> seb128: changes to kdenetwork
[02:04] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: for KDE stuff, I'll generally accept it if Riddell's happy with it.
[02:04] <fabbione> cjwatson: it can still be a kernel bug.. but it has been reassigned to the kernel without proofs that is a kernel bug. basically the opposite of what you are trying to tell me
[02:05] <cjwatson> then say "we don't know whether this is a kernel bug yet", not "This isn't a kernel bug"
[02:05] <Hobbsee> fabbione: the latex guys dont want to make the script with sh, as apparently it breaks on bsd, if it's not bash.  go figure.
[02:06] <fabbione> Hobbsee: well ok.. just send me a new dediff once you are ready
[02:06] <fabbione> cjwatson: fair enough.
[02:06] <Hobbsee> fabbione: Riddell's awake - might make more sense to get him to?  *shrug* - thanks for the offer
[02:06] <fabbione> Hobbsee: ok even better
[02:06] <cjwatson> fabbione: netcfg never emits an iface line without an auto line right above it. If that iface line was written automatically, then it wasn't by the installer. Personally I think it's much more likely that they added it by hand
[02:07] <Mithrandir> mvo: accepted.
[02:07] <fabbione> cjwatson: ok, thanks for looking into it.
[02:07] <mvo> thanks Mithrandir!
[02:08] <fabbione> cjwatson: mind if i quote you there?
[02:08] <fabbione> oh you already did
[02:08] <fabbione> nevermind
[02:10] <pitti> seb128: eyed3 MIR approved
[02:10] <seb128> pitti: danke ;)
[02:35] <cjwatson> fabbione: see my update to the bug
[02:36] <fabbione> cjwatson: good catch..
[02:36] <fabbione> cjwatson: did you also notice my last comment?
[02:37] <cjwatson> fabbione: yeah
[02:37] <fabbione> ok
[02:41] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: the new partitioner is.. fiddly.  I'll be happy to have it if I get a blurb I can insert into the announcement telling people about it and what you want to get bugs about and what you don't want to get bugs about.
[03:04] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: fiddly> agreed
[03:05] <cjwatson> help making it less fiddly also appreciated :-))
[03:05] <cjwatson> I can give you a blurb, also including instructions on how to disable it
[03:05] <Mithrandir> yes, please
[03:07] <Tonio_> pitti: I fixed bug 75017, should be okay this time
[03:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75017 in kubuntu-default-settings "SRU: remove /.hidden file " [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75017
[03:17] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: we have a new kernel incoming too, so I'll need a d-i upload in a bit.
[03:18] <cjwatson> sure, I can do that
[03:18] <cjwatson> ubiquity's uploaded
[03:18] <cjwatson> new kernel as in new ABI?
[03:18] <Mithrandir> yes. :-/
[03:18] <Mithrandir> ubiquity already approved
[03:23] <pitti> Tonio_: ah, great
[03:24] <pitti> Tonio_: ah, that looks better
[03:25] <pitti> Tonio_: approved, see my latest bug reply
[03:25] <Tonio_> pitti: thanks, I'll follow next step
[03:30] <Mithrandir> and -desktop ppc oversized.  Why does that keep growing?
[03:33] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: got any idea for stuff to drop from the ppc alternate CD?  It's 6MB oversized.
[03:36] <cjwatson> meh. give me a bit.
[03:38] <Mithrandir> we could drop cvs from ship, it'd save about 1.6MB
[03:38] <pitti> ++ :)
[03:38] <pitti> we should maintain a 'FirstAgainstTheWall' page
[03:39] <Mithrandir> pitti: we've done this too many times for that to really be useful.
[03:39] <pitti> true
[03:40] <kylem> heh
[03:47] <pitti> tkamppeter: m2300w is FTBFS, thus I cannot yet approve for main; the other two drivers are ok
[03:48] <bddebian> Heya
[03:54] <Mithrandir> hmm, dropping foo2zjs and xfsprogs would get us more than 2MB
[03:58] <cjwatson> please don't drop xfsprogs
[03:59] <cjwatson> I get enough complaints about filesystems as it is
[03:59] <Mithrandir> hm
[03:59] <Mithrandir> got any other ideas?  ppc is becoming more and more of a problem. :-/
[04:02] <cjwatson> I sort of question the usefulness of the ISDN stuff on powerpc
[04:02] <Mithrandir> how would it save us?
[04:02] <Mithrandir> I'm also wondering if we can do something about the eog/gthumb/f-spot duplication
[04:02] <cjwatson> cue minefield
[04:03] <Mithrandir> yeah.
[04:08] <Mithrandir> can we drop the ltsp stuff from regular ship?  It doesn't save much, though..
[04:09] <cjwatson> ogra: ^--
[04:10] <cjwatson> ogra: as in non-Edubuntu
[04:12] <Riddell> Mithrandir: daily-live kubuntu CD from today in decent shape
[04:12] <Mithrandir> Riddell: the one where the livefs build failed due to ubiquity breakage?
[04:12] <ogra> Mithrandir, why ?
[04:12] <Riddell> Mithrandir: the one that ended up on cdimage
[04:13] <cjwatson> ogra: the question is always "why not"
[04:13] <Mithrandir> ogra: because the ppc CD is too big.
[04:13] <cjwatson> there needs to be a reason for each item on the CD
[04:13] <ogra> well, there are business reasons i think ... mdz always insisted to have it on regular ubuntu CDs as well
[04:14] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: bzip2ing ttf-arphic-uming and ttf-baekmuk would save about 2.5MB
[04:14] <ogra> ltsp itself is less than 200k
[04:14] <ogra> or around 200k
[04:15] <Mithrandir> ogra: no, it's closer to 1.25MB with dependencies.
[04:15] <ogra> it pulls in a bunch of server bits though
[04:16] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: that'd help a fair bit, yes.
[04:16] <cjwatson> which of the deps aren't there already? mdz thought there were none
[04:17] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I'm about to be dragged into a meeting; if you want it now, doit, otherwise I can do it in a bit
[04:17] <Mithrandir> dhcp3-server, for instance
[04:18] <ogra> openbsd-inetd 
[04:18] <ogra> openssh-server
[04:18] <Mithrandir> mknbi, nbd-{client,server}
[04:19] <Mithrandir> pulseaudio
[04:19] <ogra> nfs-kernel-server
[04:19] <cjwatson> ssh is already there
[04:19] <ogra> thats about it
[04:19] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: another 1.5MB from bzip2ing ttf-kochi-{mincho,gothic}
[04:20] <cjwatson> obviously none of that helps desktop in the slightest
[04:20] <Mithrandir> yeah, ship-live is even worse
[04:20] <Mithrandir> but that has a bunch of langpacks still, I can make it not have that on ppc
[04:21] <elmo> how about we just drop the fonts
[04:21] <cjwatson> huh? ship-live has no langpacks
[04:21] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: live has.
[04:21] <Mithrandir> elmo: that'd make our CJVK users unhappy.
[04:21] <cjwatson> oh, right, that's where they went
[04:22] <cjwatson> our CJVK users already have no langpacks on powerpc ;-)
[04:22] <cjwatson> but seriously, we mostly ship the fonts so documents are readable even if the desktop isn't translated
[04:22] <Mithrandir> no langpacks and no fonts make them even less happy, I imagine.  But I guess we could move them to supported.
[04:22] <cjwatson> which apparently somebody at some point thought was more important
[04:22] <cjwatson> bzip2ing should get us the space back, given that I found 4MB there without trying too hard
[04:23] <Mithrandir> being able to write and read documents in your native language is far more important than having the desktop translated.
[04:23] <cjwatson> yeah
[04:24] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: why are all the PPDs compressed independently
[04:24] <cjwatson> ?
[04:24] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@cairhien ~>$ for x in `dpkg -L linuxprinting.org-ppds | fgrep .ppd.gz`; do cat $x; done | wc -c
[04:24] <cjwatson> 3943574
[04:24] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@cairhien ~>$ for x in `dpkg -L linuxprinting.org-ppds | fgrep .ppd.gz`; do zcat $x; done | gzip -9c | wc -c
[04:24] <cjwatson> 3503382
[04:25] <cjwatson> oh, meh
[04:25] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@cairhien ~>$ for x in `dpkg -L linuxprinting.org-ppds | fgrep .ppd.gz`; do zcat $x; done | wc -c
[04:25] <cjwatson> 25091054
[04:26] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: I guess that's too much of a space hit on installed systems, so ignore me
[04:38] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: turns out I'm not in a meeting after all, so I'll upload these bzip2ings now
[04:38] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I just did -uming
[04:38] <Mithrandir> but feel free to do the rest.
[04:39] <cjwatson> meh, that was the only one I had built so far
[04:40] <Mithrandir> do -kochi- and I'll do bakmuk?
[04:40] <cjwatson> I'm mid-download of baekmuk
[04:40] <cjwatson> did you add Pre-Depends: dpkg (>= 1.10.24)?
[04:40] <Mithrandir> hm, no.
[04:40] <Mithrandir> I should probably do that.
[04:43] <cjwatson> ttf-baekmuk (2.2-1ubuntu2) feisty; urgency=low
[04:43] <cjwatson> ttf-baekmuk (2.2-1ubuntu1) hoary; urgency=low
[04:43] <cjwatson> that just looks wrong
[04:43] <Mithrandir> I'll do -kochi- now
[04:47] <Mithrandir> there, new arphic-uming uploaded
[04:47] <Mithrandir> mvo: what's in the dist-upgrader?
[04:48] <ogra> cjwatson, hmm, i seem to have live and desktop isos ... is that a temporary overlap or a bug ?
[04:49] <mvo> Mithrandir: mostly fixes and apport integration. but a fix for the cdromupgrade thing too
[04:49] <Mithrandir> mvo: cheers.
[04:49] <mvo> Mithrandir: I can do you a (fake) debdiff if you want one
[04:50] <Mithrandir> mvo: nah, it should be fine.
[04:50] <mvo> thanks
[04:52] <cjwatson> ogra: temporary, I'll clean it up, thanks
[04:52] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@cairhien ~>$ for x in `dpkg -L gnome-applets-data | xargs ls -ld | grep ^-r | tr -s ' ' | cut -d' ' -f8`; do cat $x; done | gzip -9c | wc -c
[04:52] <cjwatson> 6159826
[04:52] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@cairhien ~>$ for x in `dpkg -L gnome-applets-data | xargs ls -ld | grep ^-r | tr -s ' ' | cut -d' ' -f8`; do cat $x; done | bzip2 -9c | wc -c
[04:52] <cjwatson> 4486855
[04:52] <cjwatson> seb128: could you make that bzip2ed, please? dh_builddeb -- -Zbzip2 and Pre-Depends: dpkg (>= 1.10.24)
[04:54] <amep> I am going to try to squash the usplash on AMD64 bug (gray splash screen, etc). But I know very little aboue usplash. Can anyone point me to some developer docs for usplash? I can't get it to run on a fully booted system for testing.
[04:55] <Mithrandir> amep: then don't bother, it has a known fix.
[04:55] <Mithrandir> just a matter of finding time to fix it.
[04:55] <amep> Could I help push it through?
[04:55] <amep> I'm sick of getting emails about the bug. ;-)
[04:55] <Mithrandir> heh
[04:55] <Mithrandir> we're in a freeze now.  I can try to fix it friday.
[04:56] <amep> OK.
[04:57] <seb128> cjwatson: ok, will do
[04:58] <amep> Thanks to everyone, by the way. I love Ubuntu. And I really appreciate all the work that goes into it.
[05:00] <cjwatson> BenC: could you consider bzip2ing linux-headers-$ABI, please?
[05:00] <cjwatson> $ compare-gzip-bzip2 linux-headers-2.6.20-5
[05:00] <cjwatson> gzip: 7192873
[05:00] <cjwatson> bzip2: 5980068
[05:00] <BenC> cjwatson: In the .deb?
[05:00] <cjwatson> BenC: dh_builddeb -- -Zbzip2, Pre-Depends: dpkg (>= 1.10.24)
[05:01] <cjwatson> to get data.tar.bz2 rather than data.tar.gz
[05:01] <BenC> cjwatson: Didn't know we supported that, cool
[05:01] <cjwatson> the numbers above aren't totally reliable but they should be pretty close
[05:01] <cjwatson> since hoary or so :)
[05:01] <cjwatson> can't be used in Debian until etch releases
[05:02] <BenC> I had it working like 6 years ago, but no one wanted it :)
[05:03] <cjwatson> heh
[05:03] <cjwatson> Scott probably reinvented it
[05:03] <cjwatson> vim-runtime will gain us another 1MB
[05:03] <lifeless> has defaulting that to bzip2 been considered ?
[05:03] <cjwatson> yes, and rejected
[05:03] <cjwatson> (we considered it very early on)
[05:04] <cjwatson> it takes considerably more CPU to unpack, particularly on lower-power machines, so we only do it selectively
[05:04] <thom> and on most debs it doesn't make much difference
[05:04] <cjwatson> right, it only gains you much on the big packages
[05:04] <Keybuk> I can't remember
[05:04] <Keybuk> I think it was based on an existing patch
[05:05] <pitti> hi Keybuk 
[05:05] <bdmurray> pitti: I was wondering if apport has any duplicate detection abilities when submitting bugs
[05:06] <pitti> bdmurray: we provide a default bug title, LP's bug dup proposals should catch on that
[05:06] <pitti> bdmurray: in addition, we can add manual bug patterns
[05:06] <bdmurray> pitti: I don't think lp did then
[05:06] <pitti> then apport will say that it's a dup right away
[05:06] <cjwatson> in fact, bzip2 makes some packages bigger
[05:06] <cjwatson> $ compare-gzip-bzip2 vim-common
[05:06] <cjwatson> gzip: 181406
[05:06] <cjwatson> bzip2: 198831
[05:07] <bdmurray> pitti: if you look at bug 81727 I manually marked a lot of the dupes
[05:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81727 in gnome-app-install "[apport]  gnome-app-install crashed with DBusException in __call__()" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81727
[05:08] <geser> Keybuk: is there somewhere an explanation for the different colors in the listings from the Merge-o-Matic?
[05:08] <pitti> bdmurray: hm, it seems that people who file bugs do not actually stop filing it and/or do not look at the dup list
[05:08] <bdmurray> pitti: ah! that explains a lot then
[05:09] <pitti> bdmurray: maybe we need to point this out stronger on the +filebug page
[05:09] <Keybuk> geser: package priorities
[05:09] <geser> Keybuk: and how are the computed?
[05:10] <bdmurray> pitti: that's an idea
[05:16] <geser> Mithrandir: can you increase the timeout for latex-cjk-chinese-arphic (the buildd timed out after 150 minutes of inactivity)?
[05:21] <fabbione> cjwatson: actually.. there is something that doesn't match in #81782
[05:21] <pitti> is there a command which displays me the currently active library search paths?
[05:21] <fabbione> cjwatson: how can it be a missing pci id if the booting kernel in dmesg is still edgy?
[05:21] <fabbione> (and it loads the driver)
[05:21] <cjwatson> fabbione: no idea, maybe some other driver handled it
[05:22] <cjwatson> fabbione: have fun hunting it down :)
[05:22] <cjwatson> that other driver might not have been in the right udebs or something
[05:22] <fabbione> cjwatson: that's ok.i am just trying to understand how you got to the conclusion that it was a pci/id
[05:22] <fabbione> but yes it's possible
[05:22] <cjwatson> I looked at what driver currently handles that pci id and checked modinfo output to see what the drivers in edgy and feisty provided
[05:25] <Mithrandir> geser: no, but infinity can
[05:28] <fabbione> cjwatson: yeps.. r1000 in edgy and r81whatever in feisty
[05:28] <fabbione> cjwatson: now everything matches
[05:28] <fabbione> thanks
[05:29] <cjwatson> np
[05:30] <Keybuk> geser: from the Priority: field in the source package
[05:30] <Keybuk> (and thus the binary)
[05:30] <geser> Keybuk: thanks
[05:33] <elmo> geser: err, are you sure it's actually doing anything?
[05:33] <elmo> 150 minutes of build time on our buildds is a _lot_ of CPU time
[05:34] <geser> \sh build it successfully on his  2xdual core amd64 16GB machine in 3 hours
[05:36] <elmo> ugh, ok
[05:36] <elmo> (then like mithrandir said, infinity is the  man to talk to)
[05:37] <Mithrandir> geser: make it output a dot or something every so often, then.
[05:37] <elmo> oh yeah - or that might be a better idea
[05:44] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: have you released that greasemonkey script for auto-responses to bugs anywhere yet?
[05:44] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: http://err.no/src/lp_stockreplies.user.js
[05:44] <Mithrandir> needs source code hacking to change the replies, but that should be easy enough
[05:44] <dholbach> b!z!r! :)
[05:45] <pitti> cjwatson: seb128 has a version on his people page, too
[05:45] <Mithrandir> dholbach: doesn't integrate well into firefox.
[05:45] <siretart> fabbione: is bug #38409 a duplicate of bug #81598?
[05:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38409 in Debian "creation of snapshots fails unpredictably" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/38409
[05:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81598 in lvm2 "[SRU]  lvm2 check if device is md is broken on big endian machines" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81598
[05:46] <dholbach> Mithrandir: what? bzr?
[05:46] <fabbione> siretart: no
[05:46] <siretart> ok
[05:46] <Mithrandir> dholbach: yes.
[05:46] <Mithrandir> dholbach: as in, storing greasemonkey script in bzr doesn't really fit, since greasemonkey has a directory where stuff's stored, including a metadata-file
[05:47] <dholbach> right... I just thought that people would want to hack on it, change it, etc - where bzr is a better fit
[05:47] <dholbach> but I understand what you're saying
[05:47] <\sh> hmmm...debuild -S bugs me because of UTF/unicode chars in the debian/changelog..how can I tell him to be unicode clean? ,-)
[05:50] <\sh> anyways...going home
[06:25] <BenC> cjwatson: This bzip2 thing for linux-headers-* isn't going to be easy
[06:25] <BenC> cjwatson: It's built by make-kpkg, and there's no way to pass arguments to "dpkg --build" for the package creation
[06:27] <cjwatson> BenC: ah, ok
[06:27] <BenC> cjwatson: feisty+1 I'll do it
[06:33] <maswan> BenC: out of curiosity and not keeping up with stuff, how's systemtap support doing?
[06:36] <BenC> maswan: KPROBES is enabled so the kernels support it (as far as I can tell)
[06:36] <gus_m> s
[06:37] <maswan> BenC: well, it needs DEBUG_INFO too, AIUI
[06:38] <BenC> maswan: We have that too :)
[06:38] <maswan> BenC: ah, ok. just me not keeping up then. :)
[06:38] <BenC> the linux-image-debug packages have the raw -g kernels
[06:38] <maswan> BenC: no, the conf option DEBUG_INFO, bloats the kernel quite a bit
[06:39] <BenC> yes, I know
[06:39] <maswan> BenC: but yes, I did look at that and oprofile works neatly now. thanks. :)
[06:39] <BenC> that's why they aren't installed by default
[06:39] <BenC> DEBUG_INFO does enable -g and disables -fomit-frame-pointer too I think
[06:40] <BenC> like zero runtime change, but helps in backtracing and stuff
[06:41] <maswan> Ah, right. I'm just talking, last thing I looked at was edgy, not current stuff.
[06:41] <maswan> Sorry, will try to look at testing new stuff out too. :)
[06:48] <cypher1> Keybuk, hi
[06:49] <Keybuk> cypher1: hi
[06:55] <cypher1> Keybuk, i had been look at NoUsplashTimeout Specification
[06:55] <cypher1> Keybuk, can i pm you for that ?
[06:56] <Keybuk> sure
[06:59] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: vim-runtime saves another 1MB, so I'll upload that
[07:01] <tkamppeter> cjwatso, there was already discussion about making the PPDs occupying less space. See bug 39847.
[07:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39847 in foomatic-db "Getting (more) manufacturer-supplied PostScript PPDs onto the Ubuntu desktop CDs" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/39847
[07:03] <cjwatson> BenC: bzip2 saves nearly 3MB out of linux-image-2.6.20-5-powerpc
[07:07] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: thanks
[07:08] <alex-weej> are there any Human design guidelines?
[07:08] <alex-weej> a bit like Tango's
[07:10] <MacSlow> mdz, ping
[07:18] <_ion> Seems like i hit bug #80938 while installing Xubuntu.
[07:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80938 in ubiquity "do_remove BrokenCount assertion can fail" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80938
[07:25] <cjwatson> _ion: only if do_remove was in the traceback; if it was mark_install instead, then it's a different bug that's been fixed
[07:25] <cjwatson> the do_remove case is a lot more complicated and I haven't worked out the correct fix yet
[07:26] <_ion> cjwatson: It was.
[07:26] <phish> if I was to request a module (specifically pata_atiixp) be included in feisty, where should I make such a request?
[07:28] <cjwatson> phish: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+filebug
[07:28] <phish> cjwatson thanks
[07:34] <Riddell> bdmurray: beastie 80444 should be fixed with kdenetwork -0ubuntu4
[07:39] <bdmurray> Riddell: How is that?
[07:42] <Riddell> bdmurray: because we included a fix for it
[07:42] <Riddell> but it would be useful if you could check that it works
[07:45] <bdmurray> I meant I didn't understand the relationship between the kcontrolcenter being empty and kdenetwork
[07:46] <Riddell> bdmurray: oh sorry, I ment kdebase -0ubuntu4
[07:47] <bdmurray> ah, okay cool. I'll let the reporter know.
[07:53] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I've accepted vim since that was for CD size too (1MB off vim-runtime); hope that's OK
[09:02] <enrico> epiphany on edgy started saying that it can't load https because encryption support is not installed.  So I tried to go to launchpad to report it as a bug.  And it told me that encryption support is not installed, so I can't see launchpad <g>
[09:02] <enrico> openssl, libssl and whatnot seem to be all installed
[09:10] <pinskian> exacly why was ubuntu ppc support withdrawn?
[09:13] <Amaranth> err, it wasn't?
[09:13] <pinskian> it has
[09:13] <pinskian> there isnt even a channel for it now
[09:13] <pinskian> why?
[09:14] <Amaranth> there are still downloads
[09:14] <Amaranth> people just decided having a special channel wasn't worth it, i guess
[09:14] <pinskian> oh
[09:14] <Amaranth> it wasn't an "official" channel or anything
[09:14] <pinskian> but ik mean there's no suppport for it right?
[09:14] <pinskian> cause most of us dumped it for debian as there was no support for it i heard
[09:14] <pinskian> debian ppc
[09:15] <Amaranth> it's just as supported as x86 and amd64
[09:15] <pinskian> not quite as debian ppc's right?
[09:15] <pinskian> had some difficult with it
[09:15] <pinskian> thats when i switched
[09:15] <pinskian> difficulty
[09:16] <Amaranth> it is no more or less supported than debian's ppc builds
[09:16] <Amaranth> if you had problems with the the solution was to file bugs :)
[09:17] <pinskian> i could never get 5 to boot on the imac i had
[09:18] <pinskian> but really without imac im doing much better with ubuntu
[09:19] <Amaranth> 5?
[09:19] <pinskian> basically couldnt get it to run ubuntu on it
[09:19] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[09:19] <pinskian> yeah
[09:20] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, thanks.
[09:20] <Amaranth> /join #ubuntu-ppc :)
[09:20] <pinskian> was an old mac
[09:20] <pinskian> 233 mhz or something
[09:20] <pinskian> it redirects
[09:20] <pinskian> :P
[09:20] <Amaranth> yes
[09:20] <Amaranth> support questions go to where it redirects :)
[09:20] <pinskian> hehe
[09:20] <pinskian> never mind its off my system
[09:20] <pinskian> ubuntu plain and simple is elegant
[09:21] <pinskian> Amaranth: you recommend using all x86 machines?
[09:22] <Amaranth> i've got ubuntu on a mac mini
[09:22] <pinskian> sweet
[09:23] <ulaas> hi, is there any process that is going on for unsupported fn keys on specific laptops. i have one laptop maybe i can help...
[09:25] <Adri2000> sabdfl: I'm not sure to have understood in -meeting, ubuntu-devs are approved as usual during this meeting or not? (except EtienneG)
[09:27] <sabdfl> Adri2000: yes
[09:28] <sabdfl> i asked etienneg to go to motu specifically because he's canonical and i didn't want any shortcuts
[09:28] <sabdfl> he's good but not yet known to the motu
[09:28] <Adri2000> ah, ok :)
[09:46] <pinskian> heck, i think for everything else ubuntu is a lot nicer to use than windows
[09:46] <pinskian> i even was burning an iso yesterday.. the file was on my desktop, i right clicked it and clicked burn, and that was that
[09:46] <pinskian> :P
[09:48] <trappist> when is UVF for feisty?
[09:48] <bdmurray> kylem: ping
[09:49] <Amaranth> trappist: a couple weeks ago, i think
[09:49] <trappist> Amaranth: oh :/
[09:49] <ajmitch> Amaranth: nope, feb 8th
[09:49] <Amaranth> trappist: oh, no, it's the 8th
[09:49] <Amaranth> yeah
[09:50] <Amaranth> so if i want my app in universe i should have it ready by the 8th then :)
[09:50] <ajmitch> Amaranth: new apps get until the 22nd for universe (iirc)
[09:50] <trappist> Amaranth: thanks
[09:51] <kylem> bdmurray, yo.
[09:51] <Amaranth> ajmitch: wiki sas 8th
[09:51] <Amaranth> err, says
[09:51] <Mithrandir> iwj: the trigger stuff looks very interesting.
[09:51] <ajmitch> Amaranth: no, feature freeze for universe is 22nd on the wiki
[09:51] <ajmitch> Amaranth: that's what we decided as the date for new packages
[09:52] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: note that you should have it in the NEW queue well before then, since the queue sometimes is lagging a little.
[09:52] <Amaranth> oops
[09:52] <Amaranth> not going to happen unless i write 1000 lines of bugfree code in 24 hours then :)
[09:53] <Mithrandir> featurefreeze means it should have the features, not the lack of bugs.
[09:53] <Amaranth> that's not a feature, that's a bug fix! :D
[09:53] <bdmurray> kylem: I was looking at this wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingACPI .  Have you looked at it at all?
[09:54] <kylem> bdmurray, no, i've not. reading now.
[09:54] <bdmurray> I says to report acpi bugs against the kernel
[09:55] <kylem> that's right.
[09:56] <bdmurray> okay, then from there do they go to acpi and acpi-support ?
[09:56] <bdmurray> and do the more info requests look good to you?
[09:56] <Mithrandir> no, "acpi" is almost certainly the wrong package.  It's just a small shell script.
[09:57] <bdmurray> Mithrandir: thanks, that's good to know
[09:57] <kylem> yeah, the more info requests are fine. might want to add about asking for their dsdt but that's about it.
[09:57] <kylem> and the dsdt is usually not needed...
[09:58] <bdmurray> kylem: so bug 82188 should really be linux-source-#
[09:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82188 in Ubuntu "Brightness control via ACPI in HP notebooks" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82188
[10:00] <kylem> that looks like a problem with user tools if the kernel is able to change the brightness.
[10:01] <bdmurray> got it
[10:01] <kylem> mjg59, ping? can you shed a bit of light for us, o laptop god? :)
[10:01] <mjg59> Yeah, give me a sec
[10:02] <mjg59> Ok, that interface has historically not worked at all
[10:02] <mjg59> So I don't think hal will attempt to use it
[10:03] <bdmurray> the /proc/acpi interface?
[10:04] <mjg59> Yes
[10:38] <Mithrandir> seb128: gnome-applets accepted; thanks.
[10:39] <seb128> np, thank you
[10:42] <Simira> does that mean I need to test it again? :)
[10:42] <Hobbsee> hey Simira 
[10:42] <Simira> good evenin
[10:43] <Simira> well, not testing anything today. I'm off to bed. G'night
[10:52] <sfllaw> fabbione: Bug 81125 is approved for an upload on Friday.
[10:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81125 in glibc "libc6 update for Edgy fails due to sanity check" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81125
[10:52] <fabbione> sfllaw: ok. you can remind me at the office :)
[10:53] <sfllaw> fabbione: This was merely me following SRU procedure.  I'll likely forget before you do.  :)
[10:56] <geser> mdz: can I ask you a question about the source maintainer mangling we are supposed to do?
[11:08] <seb128> Mithrandir: please accept the gnome-control-center update for herd3, it fixes a bug which wipes the user directory
[11:08] <Mithrandir> ouch
[11:08] <Mithrandir> (looking)
[11:08] <seb128> Novell guys did something stupid
[11:08] <seb128> they add and remove autostart apps from their new shell
[11:09] <elmo> !
[11:09] <seb128> and they do it based on a gconf key with user_dir, gconf_dir, filename
[11:09] <seb128> when gconf_dir is not set they basically rm -rf user_dir
[11:10] <Mithrandir> accepted.
[11:10] <seb128> thank you
[11:10] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: did kdenetwork never get accepted, or did Riddell not upload it?
[11:11] <LaserJock> ahh, was that the "OMG Control Center ate my ~/"?
[11:11] <ajmitch> seb128: that's disturbing
[11:11] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: it hasn't hit the unapproved queue, ttbomk
[11:11] <mdke> haha
[11:11] <seb128> LaserJock: that was https://launchpad.net/control-center/+bug/78500
[11:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78500 in control-center "gnome-control-center wipes out /home/user" [Unknown,Unknown]  
[11:12] <Mithrandir> seb128: in which case did it do that?
[11:12] <Gman> seb128, sweet jeebus.
[11:13] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: right, i'll bug the relevant people then
[11:14] <seb128> Mithrandir: when left clicking on a shell item and using "remove from the startup list" if the program was not to the startup list
[11:14] <seb128> or maybe even if it was, I'm not sure sure now
[11:15] <seb128> (if you don't have gnome-main-menu installed)
[11:15] <Mithrandir> I wonder why it'd add the -r
[11:16] <seb128> (they shipped the gconf schemas with gnome-main-menu, but not with libslab which is used by the shell)
[11:16] <seb128> well, they don't call "rm -rf"
[11:16] <seb128> they call gnome_vfs_xfer_delete_list on the dir
[11:16] <seb128> which does the same job :/
[11:17] <Mithrandir> it should call something which tries to remove files, not directories.
[11:17] <Mithrandir> IMO
[11:17] <sladen> mjg59: remind me again what exactly the amd64 framebuffer usplash grayscale issue is---it's just not possible to program the palette entries over 16 ?
[11:17] <seb128> that code should probably be changed to use delete_uri on the item rather
[11:17] <seb128> Mithrandir: yeah, I was thinking the same
[11:17] <seb128> I'll fix it probably
[11:17] <sladen> bug #67545 really needs a good answer lif [ "$HAL_PROP_LAPTOP_PANEL_ACCESS_METHOD" = "sony" ] ; then
[11:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67545 in usplash "usplash appears black and white (grayscale) on amd64" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67545
[11:18] <mjg59> sladen: No clue, don't care. It's going to stop using vga16fb.
[11:18] <sladen>         # echo "{1..8}" > /proc/acpi/sony/brightness
[11:18] <sladen> cack
[11:18] <Mithrandir> sladen: it's using the vga framebuffer for various reasons.
[11:18] <sladen>         # http://popies.net/sonypi/2.6-sony_acpi4.patch
[11:18] <sladen>         echo "$((value + 1))" > $HAL_PROP_LINUX_ACPI_PATH
[11:25] <sladen> "various"---suspend related, setup related?  What can I shove in the bug report.
[11:38] <sladen> Mithrandir: ^^can you remember any of the reasons?
[11:38] <Mithrandir> sladen: yes.
[11:39] <sladen> Mithrandir: "with specificity" ?
[11:42] <sladen> (other than the contents of the changelog;  which shows the change to bogl/vga16fb, but not the reason)
[11:42] <Mithrandir> the current x86emu in the usplash source tree doesn't work correctly on amd64
[11:45] <sladen> Mithrandir: thanks, that'll do, ta
[11:48] <elmo> does anyone know if lvm has to be a module to do root-lvm?
[11:51] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ping?
[11:51] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[11:51] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: bleh.
[11:51] <bddebian> Don't you love those? :-)
[11:51] <Hobbsee> yep :)
[11:51] <Hobbsee> particularly when i use them myself
[11:52] <Hobbsee> just not automatically
[11:52] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: hehe
[11:52] <Hobbsee> that tells me *nothing*
[11:52] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, ping
[11:53] <cbx33> hey guys
[11:53] <TheMuso> Hey cbx33.
[11:53] <cbx33> hi TheMuso 
[11:54] <cbx33> who knows much about DES here?
[11:55] <TheMuso> I'd say nothing because I don't even know what DES is.
[12:01] <ogra> Mithrandir, i have two fixes for pulseaudio i'd like to upload, debdiff is here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/pulse.debdiff
[12:02] <seb128> Mithrandir: I uploaded an another gnome-control-center which uses g_unlink on a file rather than gnome_vfs_xfer_delete_list on an uri, that can go after herd3 though, the previous version already fixed the problem, the new one is just cleaner
[12:02] <cbx33> ogra, having problems with the DES
[12:03] <ogra> cbx33, did you try to switch to python-crypto ? 
[12:03] <cbx33> using the Crypto.DES
[12:03] <ogra> it should offer the same functionallity
[12:03] <cbx33> they encrypt to different ciphers
[12:03] <elmo> what on earth are you using DES for in this day and age?
[12:03] <cbx33> >>> des=DesCipher('01234567')
[12:03] <cbx33> >>> des.encrypt("01234567")
[12:03] <cbx33> '\x16\xdbs\xceb\xd5\xb7q'
[12:03] <cbx33> >>> des=DES.new('01234567')
[12:03] <cbx33> >>> des.encrypt("01234567")
[12:03] <cbx33> '\xc5\n\xd0(\xc6\xda\x98\x00'
[12:03] <cbx33> >>> 
[12:03] <cbx33> vnc authentication
[12:03] <ogra> even though the sngle functions might differ
[12:04] <ogra> elmo, there is a vnc wrapper cbx33 wants to use in the thin-client-manager ... seems vnc needs DES
[12:05] <ogra> the vnc wrapper shipped its own DES code, stolen fron an at&t source with a wonky license ... so he needs to reimplement it in python-ltsp ...
[12:05] <ogra> *from
[12:05] <ogra> err
[12:05] <ogra> *python-crypto
[12:05] <cbx33> but it's not giving the same results
[12:05] <cbx33> and I don;t know enough about DES to understand why
[12:06] <cbx33> I found another project who nicked the same code
[12:06] <cbx33> that's 3 projects
[12:06] <ogra> that doesnt make the license more valid
[12:07] <cbx33> no
[12:07] <cbx33> just funny is all
[12:07] <cbx33> I wasn't using it to validate
[12:08] <cbx33> so any DES experts here?