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| Hobbsee | @schedule est | 12:38 |
|---|---|---|
| Ubugtu | Schedule for EST: 30 Jan 15:00: Technical Board | 31 Jan 15:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 17:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 18:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 15:00: Mozilla Team | 12:38 |
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| pochu | @now madrid | 01:19 |
| Ubugtu | Current time in Europe/Madrid: January 30 2007, 13:19:23 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 7 hours 40 minutes | 01:19 |
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| pochu | @schedule | 06:24 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 30 Jan 20:00: Technical Board | 31 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 22:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 20:00: Mozilla Team | 06:24 |
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| Amaranth | @schedule Chicago | 06:52 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/Chicago: 30 Jan 14:00: Technical Board | 31 Jan 14:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 16:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 17:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 14:00: Mozilla Team | 06:52 |
| somerville32 | @schedule atlantic | 06:52 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Canada/Atlantic: 30 Jan 16:00: Technical Board | 31 Jan 16:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 18:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 16:00: Mozilla Team | 06:52 |
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| Ma1kel | @schedule amsterdam | 07:59 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 30 Jan 21:00: Technical Board | 31 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Feb 00:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 21:00: Mozilla Team | 07:59 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 20:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | ||
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| Ma1kel | In AD 2007 | 09:00 |
| Ma1kel | The Technical board meeting was beginning | 09:00 |
| Keybuk | don't hold your breath ... mdz just ping timeout'd :p | 09:00 |
| Ma1kel | Main discussion turn on | 09:01 |
| Ma1kel | How are you gentlemen? | 09:01 |
| Keybuk | mjg59 will not be joining us today; he's got a PhD to procrastinate over | 09:02 |
| ajmitch | there's actually one scheduled for today? | 09:02 |
| Keybuk | I thought mdz was joining us, he was in a conf-call with me not an hour ago, but he's just vanished | 09:02 |
| === ajmitch looks for dholbach | ||
| Keybuk | trying to find out whether it's temporary, or whether he's gone for dinner and forgotten | 09:02 |
| dholbach | ajmitch: I'm here | 09:02 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: yay! | 09:02 |
| Ma1kel | [20:50:16] * Ubugtu changes topic to 'Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 20:00 UTC: Mozilla Team' | 09:03 |
| Seveas | Ma1kel, we know that... | 09:03 |
| ajmitch | ubugtu & reality don't always match | 09:03 |
| Seveas | heh | 09:03 |
| Ma1kel | The system can't be wrong. | 09:03 |
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| Keybuk | ok, let's get going | 09:05 |
| mdz_ | good evening | 09:05 |
| Keybuk | First up: core-de | 09:05 |
| Keybuk | v | 09:05 |
| Keybuk | I don't have anyone on my list for that | 09:05 |
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| Keybuk | is there anyone here who's applied for core-dev, and thinks they should be on that list? | 09:05 |
| Keybuk | ok | 09:06 |
| Keybuk | next up: ubuntu-dev | 09:06 |
| Adri2000 | yep :) | 09:06 |
| Keybuk | on my list, I have metres, mlind, Praveen Kumar, EtienneG, prash, TheMuso & Adri2000 | 09:07 |
| tepsipakki | me too | 09:07 |
| === TheMuso is here. | ||
| === mvo is here to advocate for etienneg | ||
| Keybuk | is EtienneG here? | 09:07 |
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| EtienneG | Keybuk, yep ! | 09:07 |
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| tepsipakki | previous meeting was cancelled so my application perhaps got dropped | 09:08 |
| Keybuk | you're first in date order; so introduce yourself | 09:08 |
| EtienneG | excellent | 09:08 |
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| EtienneG | I am support analyst in the Mtl office | 09:08 |
| sabdfl | evening all | 09:08 |
| EtienneG | Launchpad packaging page : https://launchpad.net/~etienne-goyer-outlands/+packages | 09:08 |
| Keybuk | you package bzr? | 09:09 |
| EtienneG | I am also responsible for bzr package on http://bazaar-vcs.org/releases/packages | 09:09 |
| mdz_ | EtienneG: in addition, I understand you've been doing some packaging for the commercial repository, which is maintained outside of launchpad | 09:09 |
| EtienneG | Keybuk, yep, i took this over from jbailey | 09:09 |
| EtienneG | mdz, indeed | 09:09 |
| EtienneG | latest package there have been SugarCRM | 09:09 |
| sabdfl | have you worked with any MOTU? | 09:10 |
| EtienneG | I also package a few Canonical-internal things | 09:10 |
| EtienneG | sabdfl, not yet unfortunately | 09:10 |
| sabdfl | i think that's important to join ubuntu-dev | 09:10 |
| EtienneG | I had the chance of getting all my package sponsored by jbailey and mvo | 09:10 |
| sabdfl | i know that i knock on your door for things like bzr packaging but ubuntu-dev is all about motu | 09:10 |
| mvo | EtienneG worked with me quite a bit and I'm very happy with the work he is doing | 09:11 |
| mdz | EtienneG: have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers ? | 09:11 |
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| EtienneG | mdz, yes | 09:11 |
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| EtienneG | mostly, i am looking for more autonomy in the maintenance of bzr-related package | 09:12 |
| EtienneG | and to lessen the workload on my usual sponsors (mvo, jbailey) | 09:12 |
| sabdfl | i have a suggestion | 09:13 |
| EtienneG | I'm all ear | 09:13 |
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| sabdfl | if we approve the motu council today, then all you would need is two motu council folks to +1 you and you'd be in there | 09:13 |
| sabdfl | that way you'd be known to them | 09:13 |
| sabdfl | since you're joining their team | 09:13 |
| EtienneG | sabdfl, sound perfectly good to me | 09:14 |
| sabdfl | for my part, +1, you can quote me on that | 09:14 |
| sabdfl | cool | 09:14 |
| EtienneG | sabdfl, thanks ! | 09:14 |
| mdz | sabdfl++ | 09:14 |
| === mvo hugs EtienneG | ||
| sabdfl | ok, let's see if EtienneG can be the test case for the NewStreamlinedMotuProcess | 09:15 |
| sabdfl | next up? | 09:15 |
| EtienneG | excellent ! | 09:15 |
| dholbach | ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MotuProcessesSpec ) | 09:15 |
| mdz | EtienneG: I think it's especially important in your case, as a Canonical employee, that you become more involved with the community, since it's easy to work with other developers internally and not develop a good relationship with the developer community | 09:15 |
| tepsipakki | would that apply for the rest ot the motuhopefuls | 09:15 |
| tepsipakki | ? | 09:15 |
| jbailey_ | mdz: How does that affect upload rights for -commerical, though? | 09:15 |
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| mdz | jbailey_: upload rights for -commercial should be the same as -core-dev, since it's nearly equivalent to main in terms of its presentation to users | 09:16 |
| sabdfl | -commercial isn't enabled by default, though? | 09:16 |
| mdz | it's designated "supported" in the UI | 09:16 |
| sabdfl | ok | 09:17 |
| sabdfl | tepsipakki: i don't mind dealing with prospectives now | 09:17 |
| sabdfl | particularly wanted EtienneG to be in the loop with MOTU council | 09:18 |
| tepsipakki | ok | 09:18 |
| sabdfl | if you have a quick, clear cut case we can +1 you now | 09:18 |
| sabdfl | otherwise, we'll defer to MOTU council | 09:18 |
| EtienneG | sabdfl, mdz : this will certainly be | 09:18 |
| sabdfl | ok? | 09:18 |
| mdz | ok with me | 09:18 |
| tepsipakki | cool, so I'm up next? | 09:19 |
| Keybuk | ok with me too | 09:19 |
| sabdfl | fire away | 09:19 |
| mdz | deferring to the MOTU countil should be much more convenient than coming to a future TB meeting, according to the docs | 09:19 |
| mdz | council, even | 09:19 |
| sabdfl | candidates, if you could write up your three line intro, url's to wiki pages, packaging histories etc, that would make things go smoothly | 09:19 |
| Keybuk | tepsipakki: you registered for ubuntu-dev almost 6 months ago; how come it's taken you so long to reach a TB meeting? | 09:19 |
| sabdfl | (w.r.t. mdz's comment that's because you can approach any 2 of the council at any time, not scheduled meetings like this, iirc) | 09:20 |
| mdz | (yes) | 09:20 |
| tepsipakki | keybuk: I was here last time ;) | 09:20 |
| tepsipakki | but you were not :) | 09:20 |
| tepsipakki | so the meeting was cancelled | 09:20 |
| ajmitch | I think at one point you didn't have enough contributions, right? | 09:20 |
| tepsipakki | yes, that was in october | 09:21 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: what have you been working on since then? | 09:21 |
| tepsipakki | anyway, here's the wiki-page for the impatient: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimoAaltonen | 09:21 |
| tepsipakki | there you can find links to the merges/syncs I've requested | 09:22 |
| tepsipakki | (and other work, but thats what is new) | 09:22 |
| tepsipakki | oops | 09:22 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: it mentions that you've been testing automated netboot installations. that's great, as those aren't tested as often as some other installation methods | 09:22 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: how do you report your test results? | 09:22 |
| tepsipakki | poke colin ;) | 09:23 |
| tepsipakki | when the installer team was created, I joined shortly after | 09:23 |
| mdz | tepsipakki: there is a wiki page which explains how to report results so that everyone can see them :-) | 09:23 |
| tepsipakki | yeah, of course | 09:23 |
| tepsipakki | I file bugs too | 09:23 |
| tepsipakki | and sometimes even write patches to fix them | 09:24 |
| tepsipakki | there are some that are on my list for feisty | 09:24 |
| tepsipakki | which would make the installation a bit more robust | 09:24 |
| sabdfl | cjwatson: any comment on interactions with timo? | 09:24 |
| mdz | Colin is on a train somewhere, or on his way to one, unfortunately | 09:25 |
| dholbach | tepsipakki did very well on looking at gnome-screensaver bugs - i got lots of mails :) | 09:25 |
| tepsipakki | his comments are available if the logs of the cancelled meeting are somewhere | 09:25 |
| sabdfl | +1 from me, lots of work across a variety of packages, and clearly interacting with the right folks in a sensible way | 09:26 |
| tepsipakki | oh yes, g-s is a pet of mine (sometimes) | 09:26 |
| sabdfl | tepsipakki: would you care to join the beta.launchpad.net group to take a peek? | 09:26 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: what's that about? | 09:26 |
| tepsipakki | oh, a test site? | 09:27 |
| sabdfl | ;-) | 09:27 |
| tepsipakki | sure, if I only could get in ;) | 09:27 |
| tepsipakki | ah | 09:27 |
| mdz | Jan 16 12:01:21 <cjwatson> I can't be here for the TB meeting, but I'd like to express support for Timo Aaltonen; he's b | 09:28 |
| mdz | een useful on d-i work in the past and has expressed interest in helping out with installer merge work | 09:28 |
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| tepsipakki | mdz: you beat me to it :) | 09:28 |
| mdz | +1 based on positive feedback from dholbach and cjwatson | 09:28 |
| Keybuk | +1 from me also | 09:28 |
| tepsipakki | sabdfl: ooh, shiny! | 09:28 |
| sabdfl | cool - welcome aboard, timo! | 09:28 |
| tepsipakki | thanks! | 09:29 |
| sabdfl | np | 09:29 |
| tepsipakki | to all | 09:29 |
| Keybuk | ok | 09:29 |
| Keybuk | next is TheMuso | 09:29 |
| TheMuso | I am Luke Yelavich, a 24 year old job seeker from Sydney, Australia. I am a member of the Ubuntu accessibility team, and have been working with MOTU for over 12 months with merges, and some bug triaging, mostly accessibility related. | 09:29 |
| TheMuso | wiki page: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukeYelavich | 09:29 |
| TheMuso | Launchpad page: http://launchpad.net/people/themuso | 09:29 |
| TheMuso | Packages: https://launchpad.net/~themuso/+packages | 09:29 |
| LaserJock | *\o/* | 09:30 |
| sistpoty | welcome tepsipakki | 09:30 |
| sabdfl | yowser :-) | 09:30 |
| === heno would like to add that Luke has been a strong driving force in the accessibility team | ||
| Keybuk | so, err, any questions for TheMuso ? | 09:31 |
| dholbach | heno++ | 09:31 |
| === dholbach hugs TheMuso and heno | ||
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| TheMuso | I believe crimsun emailed the TB about the work I have done with him. | 09:31 |
| Keybuk | "It is my pleasure to endorse fully the application of Luke Yelavich for | 09:31 |
| Keybuk | ubuntu-dev membership. For over one year, he has worked diligently in | 09:31 |
| Keybuk | MOTU on packaging and bug triaging (mostly a11y-related) and has | 09:31 |
| Keybuk | demonstrated positive interactions both in MOTU and with upstreams. | 09:31 |
| Keybuk | Ubuntu has gained a valuable contributor in Luke, and I welcome him to | 09:31 |
| Keybuk | the ubuntu-dev ranks." | 09:31 |
| Keybuk | he did | 09:31 |
| mdz | I'm familiar with TheMuso's accessibility work through henrik | 09:31 |
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| === sistpoty cheers for TheMuso | ||
| sabdfl | i've met luke in paris, iirc | 09:32 |
| Amaranth | TheMuso: I thought you were already ubuntu-dev | 09:32 |
| TheMuso | sabdfl: Briefly, but yes we did. | 09:32 |
| sabdfl | +1 from me based on a long track record of work generally, and specifically for contributions to ally | 09:32 |
| Keybuk | +1 from me also; Luke's contributions are well known to everyone, I think | 09:33 |
| mdz | +1 | 09:33 |
| sabdfl | TheMuso: maybe you could tell us what your single biggest hope for ubuntu is in 2007? | 09:33 |
| TheMuso | sabdfl: All I can say, si improving accessibility even further. There is still a long way to go, but every release we still manage to get something in that is new and useful. | 09:34 |
| mdz | Keybuk: is anyone else from your list present? | 09:34 |
| Keybuk | Adri2000 is | 09:34 |
| Adri2000 | I am :) | 09:34 |
| Keybuk | Adri2000: please introduce yourself | 09:34 |
| Adri2000 | I'm Adrien Cunin, 16 years old french student. | 09:35 |
| Adri2000 | My work on universe/multiverse packages: bug fixes, merges/syncs, new upstream releases. Also some new packages, I now maintain two of them in Debian. | 09:35 |
| Adri2000 | All of that is described on my wiki page, so take a look at it ;) | 09:35 |
| Adri2000 | My plans as a MOTU: I will keep doing general motu stuff (bugs, merges, syncs, new upstream releases...), but also (more detailed on the wiki): collaboration with Debian (I already often file bugs in the Debian BTS), QA, help/sponsor/revu MOTU hopefuls/enthusiasts. | 09:35 |
| Adri2000 | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdrienCunin | LP: https://launchpad.net/~adri2000 | Packages: https://launchpad.net/~adri2000/+packages | 09:35 |
| === Lure applied when meeting started | ||
| Adri2000 | The main MOTUs I've worked with are gpocentek (he's here), crimsun (he sent an email to technical-board at lists.ubuntu.com) and also geser (I think he's here). | 09:35 |
| Keybuk | "In the past several months, Adrien has worked diligently with MOTU in | 09:35 |
| Keybuk | bug triaging, in merging and syncing Ubuntu universe source packages, | 09:35 |
| Keybuk | and in helping community members who are not as well versed with Debian | 09:35 |
| Keybuk | packaging on REVU. His dedication to assisting MOTU hopefuls, too, is | 09:35 |
| Keybuk | noteworthy and illustrates the positive influence that anyone can have | 09:35 |
| Keybuk | on the Ubuntu distribution. I welcome him as a ubuntu-dev member." | 09:35 |
| sabdfl | well done TheMuso, your work is really important, and i hope you continue to draw a community around you to drive this forward | 09:35 |
| === gpocentek cheers for Adri2000 :) | ||
| TheMuso | sabdfl: Thanks. | 09:36 |
| === sistpoty cheers for Adri2000 as well | ||
| Mithrandir | FWIW, I've seen a fair amount of sync requests from Adri2000 which so far have been good. | 09:36 |
| sabdfl | Keybuk: quoth? | 09:36 |
| Keybuk | sabdfl: crimsun on tb mailing list about Adri2000 | 09:36 |
| gpocentek | he's done a great work on the packages I've reviewed/uploaded | 09:36 |
| mdz | Adri2000: where did you learn Debian packaging? | 09:36 |
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| Adri2000 | mdz: with gpocentek's lessons in #ubuntu-fr-classroom and then in #ubuntu-motu :) | 09:37 |
| === Toadstool sneaks in, waves and cheers for Adri2000 | ||
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| sabdfl | NO BUGS AT ALL? | 09:37 |
| sabdfl | must be no users :-) | 09:38 |
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| sabdfl | you've touched a lot of packages, Adri2000, is there a theme to your work? | 09:39 |
| mdz | gpocentek: can you be more specific about your experience? | 09:39 |
| Adri2000 | sabdfl: not really, I don't have any favourite kind of package | 09:39 |
| mdz | gpocentek: what gives you the feeling that Adri2000 is ready to upload without review? | 09:39 |
| gpocentek | mdz: well, all the packages I've reviewed were good, with no need to fix them | 09:40 |
| Adri2000 | sabdfl: just want to make universe even better :) | 09:40 |
| gpocentek | mdz: he is also really helpful to others, and I think that's because he knows how to do things well | 09:40 |
| mdz | Adri2000: how does homebank compare to gnucash? | 09:41 |
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| Adri2000 | well, I packaged homebank and merged gnucash but I can't really say because I don't use them very often (just to test) | 09:43 |
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| mdz | Adri2000: really? why would you want to maintain a package which is of no use to you? | 09:44 |
| Adri2000 | IIRC, I found homebank on MOTU/Packages/Candidates (requests from users) and the website was looking for packagers, so I emailed upstream and packaged it | 09:46 |
| Adri2000 | and I'm still in touch with upstream and still maintain it (bugs, new upstream releases), even if I don't use it daily | 09:46 |
| mdz | interesting | 09:47 |
| mdz | sabdfl: any further questions? | 09:47 |
| sabdfl | i'm quite happy with what i've seen - lots of package work, and goot references from motu and -core-dev. +1 from me | 09:47 |
| LaserJock | mdz: it's Universe, most of what we "maintain" we don't actually use | 09:48 |
| mdz | +1 as well, thanks and good luck | 09:48 |
| sabdfl | scott is away | 09:48 |
| sabdfl | so let's take 2 as quorum | 09:48 |
| sabdfl | welcome aboard! | 09:48 |
| mdz | LaserJock: it's different when you're a designated maintainer for a package, its primary caregiver | 09:48 |
| gpocentek | congrats Adri2000 :) | 09:48 |
| Adri2000 | thanks all! | 09:48 |
| LaserJock | mdz: but we stress in Universe to not have a designated maintainer | 09:49 |
| LaserJock | it's MOTU maintained | 09:49 |
| mdz | that leaves metres, mlind, Praveen Kumar, prash from Keybuk's list | 09:49 |
| Lure | mdz, sabdfl: I applied when meeting started, so not sure if I should wait next round (MOTU Conucil) | 09:49 |
| sabdfl | lure, that's fine, join the end of the list | 09:49 |
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| sabdfl | metres? | 09:50 |
| sabdfl | not here | 09:50 |
| sabdfl | mlind not here | 09:50 |
| sabdfl | praveen? | 09:50 |
| sabdfl | not here | 09:50 |
| mdz | LaserJock: indeed, we don't work exclusively, but to me it's surprising to package and devote special attention to a package one doesn't use at all | 09:50 |
| dholbach | I mailed them all (not mlind, because I've seen him around and thought he's show up) | 09:50 |
| sabdfl | prash - not here! | 09:50 |
| sabdfl | that was quick :-) | 09:50 |
| sabdfl | dholbach: i think this will all be easier with the new process | 09:50 |
| dholbach | sabdfl: yeah | 09:51 |
| mdz | Lure is here | 09:51 |
| sabdfl | roll on Lure :-) | 09:51 |
| Lure | Luka Renko, Kubuntu team member contributing for around a year, main interests | 09:51 |
| Lure | are laptop and network support. Applying for MOTU to offload sponsors for | 09:51 |
| Lure | some packages of my interest (eqonomize, soundkonverter, powersave, kpowersave). | 09:51 |
| Lure | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukaRenko LP: https://launchpad.net/~lure/+packages | 09:51 |
| mdz | Lure: who has been uploading your packages? | 09:51 |
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| Lure | I mainly work with Kubuntu team (Riddell, Tonio_, Hobbsee | 09:51 |
| mdz | are any of them here? | 09:52 |
| Lure | Some universe upload were done also by crimsun, geser, bddebian | 09:52 |
| mdz | I've seen your name around, but I can't say that I'm familiar with your work | 09:52 |
| Lure | mdz: my primary work is actually on main stuff for Kubuntu laptop/network support | 09:53 |
| Lure | mdz: I was also on UDS-MTV | 09:53 |
| Lure | mdz: I apply for motu, primarily to get my universe work directly | 09:53 |
| sabdfl | Lure: how is the kubuntu community shaping up? | 09:54 |
| Lure | sabdfl: I think better and better which each release | 09:54 |
| mdz | Lure: I see, thanks | 09:54 |
| mdz | Lure: though I don't have any direct experience of your work | 09:54 |
| Lure | sabdfl: we have some coders now for bug squasing and 3-4 active core-devs | 09:54 |
| Lure | sabdfl: I can say each release we get quite some new names on board | 09:55 |
| mdz | Lure: it's best if the people you've worked with can tell the board about their experience working with you, as we can't know everything directly | 09:55 |
| Lure | mdz: yep, I applied late, so could not arrange to get them here | 09:56 |
| sabdfl | what about QA? | 09:57 |
| Lure | sabdfl: we have now kubunut-testers activity, kicked-off by mhb and hope we can get more interest | 09:57 |
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| sabdfl | Lure: your packages uploaded list is impressive, clearly people trust you enough to upload | 09:58 |
| sabdfl | but i think it would be best to get some testimonials | 09:58 |
| sabdfl | with the new process, they could send a signed email testimonial to the MOTU council | 09:58 |
| sabdfl | could you pursue that with them? | 09:58 |
| Lure | sabdfl: I can wait another round (through council) | 09:59 |
| sabdfl | unless someone is available now that you have worked with? | 09:59 |
| sabdfl | who has sponsored most of your uploads? | 09:59 |
| Lure | sabdfl: Riddell and Tonio_ | 09:59 |
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| Lure | sabdfl: I ping them recently, but they do not seem to be around | 09:59 |
| mdz | it's problematic for us to make a decision on something as sensitive as broad upload privileges based only on information provided by the applicant | 09:59 |
| Lure | mdz: I am fine to go through conucil | 10:00 |
| sabdfl | (though clearly people have been willing to upload your packages) | 10:00 |
| sabdfl | ok, should be quick and easy | 10:00 |
| Lure | glad to test the new process ;-) | 10:01 |
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| Lure | Hobbsee might say something about my work (but still most uploads were in main) ;-) | 10:01 |
| mdz | ok | 10:02 |
| Lure | so lets postpone it | 10:02 |
| mdz | thanks for your patience | 10:02 |
| mdz | on with the agenda: the MOTU council is next | 10:02 |
| Lure | mdz: no problem | 10:02 |
| mdz | dholbach: ? | 10:02 |
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| dholbach | ok... the main processes are sorted out already, but there are some things to the motu council can not decide for themselves, like nomination process, term length, etc | 10:03 |
| mdz | dholbach: does the MOTU council already have CC approval? | 10:03 |
| dholbach | CC members told me that the TB was going to approve the MC | 10:03 |
| sabdfl | yes - we are happy, TB should approve and appoint | 10:04 |
| === Hobbsee belatedly cheers for Lure! | ||
| sabdfl | yay! | 10:04 |
| dholbach | shall we just go through the list on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda ? | 10:04 |
| mdz | sure | 10:04 |
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| mdz | first item is the nomination process | 10:04 |
| dholbach | ok, some people wanted to know more about the nomination process | 10:05 |
| mdz | I think council members should be nominated by MOTU, and confirmed by the tech board | 10:05 |
| Hobbsee | Lure: sorry, i didnt know :( | 10:05 |
| pochu | @now Madrid | 10:05 |
| Ubugtu | Current time in Europe/Madrid: January 30 2007, 22:05:49 - Current meeting: Technical Board | 10:05 |
| mdz | or possibly the reverse | 10:06 |
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| sabdfl | ;-) | 10:06 |
| sabdfl | with the CC / TB, SABDFL nominates and community votes to confirm or select a subset of the nomination | 10:07 |
| sabdfl | i'd prefer the same for MOTU council | 10:07 |
| sabdfl | folks can of course say they are interested | 10:07 |
| mdz | it should be consistent with other team councils | 10:07 |
| dholbach | it makes sense to me | 10:08 |
| dholbach | any questions from any MOTUs about that? | 10:08 |
| mdz | the current draft doesn't specify any nomination at all, as far as I see | 10:08 |
| dholbach | (or MOTU hopefuls :)) | 10:08 |
| dholbach | yes, that's right | 10:08 |
| LaserJock | so what is the proposal? TB nominates and MOTUs vote to confirm? | 10:08 |
| sabdfl | well | 10:08 |
| sabdfl | on the other hand | 10:08 |
| sabdfl | the TB is confirmed by ALL developers, including motu | 10:09 |
| sabdfl | so | 10:09 |
| ajmitch | sabdfl: are you familiar enough with various MOTUs who are involved? | 10:09 |
| LaserJock | that's what I was thinking | 10:09 |
| sabdfl | it might be simpler just to say "the TB appoint MOTU council" and be done | 10:09 |
| sabdfl | they will obviously try to get it right | 10:09 |
| sabdfl | and be sensitive to suggestions that they did not, if that happens | 10:09 |
| sabdfl | should we go with the lighter touch? | 10:10 |
| mdz | I'm happy with a process which is consistent with other team councils | 10:11 |
| LaserJock | I personally don't care as much how it's done ( I trust TB ) as that it does get done | 10:11 |
| mdz | nominations from TB and confirmation from MOTU sounds reasonable | 10:11 |
| Lure | mdz: fyi, Kubuntu council was nominated and elected by Kubuntu team members | 10:12 |
| sabdfl | i think the confirmation is excess bureacracy, but i've no problem if MOTU prefers it that way | 10:12 |
| Lure | mdz: not sure if this is same | 10:12 |
| LaserJock | Edubuntu Council was nominated and elected by Edubuntu people as well | 10:12 |
| sabdfl | in general should be nomination by the body that is getting reported to, then confirmation from the group they represent | 10:12 |
| sistpoty | sabdfl: I think confirmation is a good thing... gives motu's the feeling that they have some participation in the process as well | 10:13 |
| sabdfl | ok | 10:13 |
| sabdfl | both edubuntu and kubuntu jumped the queue, a little | 10:13 |
| sabdfl | but hey, they picked DAMN GOOD PEOPLE! | 10:13 |
| Hobbsee | bah. fire us if you like :P | 10:14 |
| TheMuso | For the time I've been involved with MOTU, I've got the impression that it is a very close knit community. | 10:14 |
| sabdfl | let's agree on TB nomination, MOTU confirmation, and move on | 10:14 |
| mdz | agreed | 10:14 |
| dholbach | "Discuss ubuntumembers and ubuntu-core-dev membership requirements with CC and TB." | 10:14 |
| Hobbsee | among MOTU, i suspect that there are certain people that stand out, that would be good for the job, like there were for kubuntu | 10:14 |
| mdz | ubuntumembers? | 10:14 |
| Lure | mdz: I think similar could be done for Kubuntu/Edubuntu in future: CC nomination, team confirmation | 10:14 |
| dholbach | that doesn't make sense | 10:14 |
| mdz | ubuntu-core-dev guidelines are documented on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers | 10:15 |
| mdz | ubuntumembers are determined by the CC and its delegates | 10:15 |
| LaserJock | yeah, I was just going to say | 10:15 |
| dholbach | I think some people wanted to make sure that the list of requirements / things the MC wants to check for applicants is ok with the TB | 10:15 |
| mdz | TB interprets the -core-dev guidelines and approves new core developers | 10:15 |
| mdz | dholbach: likewise for ubuntu-dev; I've written down what I think are the fundamental traits of an Ubuntu developer | 10:16 |
| mdz | dholbach: the MOTU council should use those when considering applicants | 10:16 |
| sabdfl | i'd say 2 year term, staggered | 10:16 |
| dholbach | right, I think we can move on | 10:16 |
| sabdfl | so we nominate half for one year now, half for two years | 10:16 |
| LaserJock | but how we determaine if an applicant has those traits would be up to the MC? | 10:16 |
| sabdfl | then renew/replace the 1st half in a year | 10:16 |
| sabdfl | then it becomes regular 2-year appointments | 10:16 |
| sabdfl | also, MOTU would be granting membership | 10:17 |
| sabdfl | so they of course need to factor that in too | 10:17 |
| sabdfl | i.o.w. make ubuntu-dev a part of ubuntumembers | 10:17 |
| sabdfl | so folks don't have to go to two meetings | 10:17 |
| sistpoty | hm... not quite sure if 2 years is a bit too long... many of our "good" motu's moved from universe to main during shorter time | 10:17 |
| dholbach | 2 year is quite a while - are the other council memberships also that long? | 10:17 |
| sabdfl | once they are a -dev, they are a member | 10:17 |
| sabdfl | sistpoty: they can of course stay on the governance of MOTU | 10:17 |
| sabdfl | they would be experienced | 10:18 |
| LaserJock | Edubuntu Council is 2 releases (1 year) | 10:18 |
| Lure | dholbach: kubuntu council is 1 year | 10:18 |
| mdz | LaserJock: yes, though they should justify their decision when making it | 10:18 |
| sabdfl | i would want to have -core-dev representation on the council | 10:18 |
| TheMuso | There is imbrandon and crimsun who also are regular MOTU contributers who are core-dev. | 10:18 |
| dholbach | sistpoty: I don't think that doing things in 'main' hinders people from working with MOTUs | 10:18 |
| sabdfl | Lure, LaserJock: it gets tiresome to do the voting more often that once per year, and if you want a rolling council, then you need to vote at least twice during one term | 10:18 |
| Hobbsee | Lure: we must be coming up to that, surely? | 10:18 |
| sistpoty | dholbach: no, it doesn't... but from my experience ppl. will have much less time for universe then ;) | 10:19 |
| sabdfl | sistpoty: i suspect that will become less true as the pool grows | 10:19 |
| sabdfl | though it's definitely been true so far | 10:19 |
| sistpoty | sabdfl: I hope so :) | 10:19 |
| dholbach | sistpoty: I think that everybody on the MC will know what is expected from him/her and live up to that :) | 10:20 |
| sabdfl | -core-dev is hugely dependent on good work in motu | 10:20 |
| sabdfl | dholbach: do you have the list of proposed MC members we discussed? | 10:21 |
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| dholbach | sabdfl: yeah | 10:21 |
| sabdfl | list 'em? | 10:21 |
| dholbach | sabdfl: we discussed crimsun, sistpoty, gpocentek and ajmitch | 10:22 |
| sabdfl | and you? | 10:22 |
| dholbach | and me | 10:22 |
| sabdfl | how about we nominate 3 for 2 year terms, and 2 for a one year term (they could be renewed) | 10:23 |
| sabdfl | alphabetically, a, c, d, g, s | 10:23 |
| sabdfl | how about we just nominate a, d, s for 2 year terms | 10:23 |
| sabdfl | and c, g for 1 year term? | 10:23 |
| sabdfl | there's no prejudice to the 1 year nominates | 10:23 |
| sabdfl | other than that we want to get the rolling going | 10:24 |
| Hobbsee | does crimsun have time to it, due to new work commitments? | 10:24 |
| sabdfl | don't think motu will have long meetings | 10:24 |
| TheMuso | Hobbsee: He'd probably just say yes anyway. :p | 10:24 |
| mdz | dholbach: have all of those people volunteered to stand? | 10:24 |
| dholbach | Hobbsee: I talked with him about that. He was fine with that. | 10:24 |
| dholbach | mdz: yes | 10:24 |
| mdz | ok then | 10:24 |
| sabdfl | should be more about availability to review candidates for -dev | 10:24 |
| sabdfl | if we covered all the timezones i would be happiest | 10:25 |
| Hobbsee | dholbach: ah right | 10:25 |
| sabdfl | then people can find a member of the council, make their case, and get a +1 in their own timezone | 10:25 |
| dholbach | and I think that after a few meetings the MC will have other processes sorted out nicely as well | 10:25 |
| sabdfl | right, aim should NOT be CC-style meetings :-) | 10:25 |
| sabdfl | just a "wise elders" group that can approve good folks who are doing good work | 10:25 |
| Hobbsee | sabdfl: haha. just dont get any australian people to do it. | 10:25 |
| sabdfl | oh, we trust aussies despite heaps of experience | 10:26 |
| TheMuso | Thanks!! | 10:26 |
| sabdfl | dholbach: thoughts? | 10:26 |
| mdz | ajmitch is in one of those ridiculous time zones, no? | 10:26 |
| mdz | should be a good spread | 10:26 |
| sabdfl | really need two in a timezone | 10:26 |
| sabdfl | so if there are other good candidates interested, i'd be happy to hear from them | 10:27 |
| sabdfl | and make appointments in mid-cycle | 10:27 |
| sabdfl | we don't need to wait a year | 10:27 |
| sabdfl | the motu council could be 7-9 people easily | 10:27 |
| sistpoty | well... I'm quite a night owl, so I rather hang around with ajmitch than with dholbach ;) | 10:27 |
| Hobbsee | mdz: NZ. and that's slightly better | 10:27 |
| Hobbsee | sabdfl: you may trust us, but 3am meetings suck. | 10:27 |
| sabdfl | dholbach could always also get a second opinion from a TB member | 10:28 |
| dholbach | I like the idea... what do other MOTUs think? Are you happy with the 1year/2year term rolling? | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | Hobbsee: idea would be to have only local folks in a meeting | 10:28 |
| mdz | it's valuable for the council to be spread out, so that hopefuls have someone to go to who will be around when they are | 10:28 |
| zul | im happy with that | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | so we could have one in sane hours for asia, with asian council members | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | not like TB where we try to have one meeting for the globe | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | i think this will be much more efficient | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | and easier on the motu council | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | will make it easier to get good folkstoparticipate | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | inthe council, and in -dev | 10:29 |
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| LaserJock | dholbach: I'm fine with it I guess | 10:29 |
| sistpoty | it would certainly help creating -devs, but it might lead to confusion if the european meeting says x about a policy while the aussies say y | 10:29 |
| sistpoty | but I guess we could get that aligned somehow ;) | 10:30 |
| mdz | sistpoty: we should hope that the council communicate with one another :-) | 10:30 |
| LaserJock | exactly, hopefully most policy discussion would involve ML though | 10:30 |
| mdz | s/council/& members/ | 10:30 |
| dholbach | I'm sure the MC will manage. :-) | 10:30 |
| mdz | we're 90 minutes in now; are there any further outstanding issues about the MOTU council? | 10:30 |
| sabdfl | good point on the consistency front | 10:31 |
| dholbach | Ok, seems we have clarified "Clarify the process for the next appointment." too, so there's only "Clarify the process for communication between TB and MC for ubuntu-dev membership approval." left | 10:31 |
| sabdfl | we should look out for that since this is the first time we're creating something that we want to work as a parallel team | 10:31 |
| sabdfl | MOTU council should make a note for each candidate | 10:32 |
| sabdfl | on why they were approved | 10:32 |
| sabdfl | then TB should review those quickly in each meeting | 10:32 |
| mdz | dholbach: what I'd like to see is a writeup for each applicant, with an explanation of the council's decision, sent to the tech board | 10:32 |
| mdz | so that we can see how the guidelines have been applied | 10:32 |
| === ajmitch is back | ||
| dholbach | to the mailing list? no meeting-like reporting? for other decision too? | 10:33 |
| sabdfl | if there's inconsistency we might ask for someone on TB to ack each decision | 10:33 |
| mdz | i.e., review the applicant's work against UbuntuDevelopers | 10:33 |
| sabdfl | but for the moment, let's trust that it will just work | 10:33 |
| sabdfl | mailing list or wiki page | 10:33 |
| mdz | so that there's a concise record of the process | 10:33 |
| sabdfl | should be a public list | 10:33 |
| sabdfl | the TB list is private | 10:33 |
| dholbach | a mail with a link to the wiki would work too, hm? :) | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | perfectly :-) | 10:34 |
| dholbach | rock and roll :) | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | this just for approval cases | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | not for declines or "come back when you've done this" | 10:34 |
| dholbach | ok | 10:34 |
| dholbach | anything else regarding the MC? I'm happy | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | PUMPED? | 10:34 |
| ajmitch | sounds good | 10:34 |
| dholbach | ABSOLUTELY :-) | 10:34 |
| === dholbach hugs sabdfl | ||
| sistpoty | we need the final acks still ;) | 10:34 |
| mdz | right, there's no need to justify deferring an application until a later date | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | "like i'm your long lost best friend" :-) | 10:35 |
| dholbach | sabdfl: sure you are :-) | 10:35 |
| sabdfl | +1 from me | 10:35 |
| mdz | the council should feel free to do so if it has doubts | 10:35 |
| mdz | without any embarrassment for those involved | 10:35 |
| mdz | I'm in agreement | 10:35 |
| mdz | dholbach: will you document those changes so we can sign off on the final document? | 10:35 |
| sabdfl | again, fomr my perspective, any two folks on the council should be sufficient | 10:35 |
| dholbach | mdz: yes | 10:35 |
| sabdfl | so it doesn't bottleneck on quorum across timezones | 10:36 |
| mdz | dholbach: we can do that by mail with the full TB, and not wait for another meeting | 10:36 |
| dholbach | alright | 10:36 |
| mdz | it should be considered by all members of the tech board, and I don't want it to block on meetings | 10:36 |
| mdz | thanks | 10:36 |
| dholbach | thank you | 10:36 |
| mdz | next -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpAndSupportAccess | 10:36 |
| EtienneG | we can see some inside from SF are getting into the Ubuntu folklore ... :) | 10:36 |
| sabdfl | well done dholbach - this is a fantastic step | 10:36 |
| sabdfl | for the motu | 10:36 |
| === sabdfl applauds | ||
| mdz | mdke asked that we consider this proposal to change the help interface in the desktop | 10:37 |
| dholbach | sabdfl: we all have big expectations :-) | 10:37 |
| mdz | I did an initial review and asked for some clarifications | 10:37 |
| mdz | which he seems to have made | 10:37 |
| mdz | I like the idea of replacing the submenu with a clearer, more navigable page | 10:39 |
| mdz | the current menu is confusing | 10:39 |
| mdz | I think the page layout could use some tweaking | 10:41 |
| mdz | but the basic idea seems sound | 10:41 |
| sabdfl | in principle i think this is a good change | 10:41 |
| sabdfl | the offer of community and commercial support will get more prominence by release | 10:41 |
| sabdfl | i expect that to be a little contentious | 10:41 |
| sabdfl | nevertheless, the new proposal is more attractive than the four submenus | 10:42 |
| sabdfl | and more sensible | 10:42 |
| sabdfl | mdke finally talked me round :-) | 10:42 |
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| mdz | ok then | 10:43 |
| mdz | I'll mark it as approved, and document the feedback | 10:43 |
| mdz | we can fine-tune the page as needed | 10:43 |
| mdz | next -- reportbug | 10:43 |
| mdz | we shipped reportbug in the default install in earlier releases | 10:44 |
| sabdfl | sorry | 10:44 |
| sabdfl | sec | 10:44 |
| sabdfl | do we have full HTML capability on that page? | 10:44 |
| mdz | yes | 10:44 |
| sabdfl | or is it just Yelp? | 10:44 |
| mdz | it's Yelp | 10:44 |
| mdz | so FSVO "full" | 10:44 |
| sabdfl | hmm | 10:45 |
| sabdfl | will ask the folks working on the web site to work with mdke on the page | 10:45 |
| sabdfl | need to be able to present a classy picture | 10:45 |
| sabdfl | ok, that's all from me | 10:45 |
| sabdfl | reportbug! | 10:45 |
| mdz | right, we stopped installing reportbug by default in edgy | 10:45 |
| mdz | because it doesn't support reporting bugs to launchpad, and other approaches were in development | 10:46 |
| mdz | we now have apport | 10:46 |
| mdz | which does what we wanted reportbug to do originally, and more | 10:46 |
| mdz | in the relevant bug report about this, it was suggested that having reportbug in main is confusing, since it's not our preferred bug reporting tool | 10:46 |
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| mdz | since it was removed from desktop, the only reason it's still in main is that it's a dependency of dpkg-dev-el | 10:47 |
| === ajmitch saw some brainstorming about rewriting reportbug to file directly into malone via the html forms | ||
| mdz | (emacs extensions for Debian package development) | 10:47 |
| mdz | we can a) drop dpkg-dev-el to universe, b) modify dpkg-dev-el not to depend on reportbug (and appropriate modifications so it's not needed), or c) leave it alone | 10:48 |
| ajmitch | reportbug is still useful to keep, but probably not for shipping on the cd | 10:48 |
| mdz | it isn't shipped on the CD | 10:48 |
| sabdfl | b seems the least intrusive | 10:49 |
| mdz | yes, though it does mean diverging the package from Debian | 10:49 |
| mdz | and thus more merge work | 10:49 |
| sabdfl | would they not accept the patch? | 10:49 |
| LaserJock | < mdz> next -- reportbug | 10:49 |
| LaserJock | bah, sorry | 10:49 |
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| sid | wow, I'm getting 1 kilobyte a second from Farmingdale's wireless | 10:51 |
| mdz | I don't think having reportbug in main is particularly confusing | 10:51 |
| mdz | and it's useful for reporting bugs to projects which use debbugs (including Debian) | 10:51 |
| sabdfl | the reportbug description could refer peopleto apport for standard ubuntu bug reporting? | 10:51 |
| mdz | but I don't have strong feelings either way, which is why I brought it here | 10:51 |
| === somerville32 pants as he finally catches up on reading several pages of backlog. | ||
| mdz | this has been a long meeting already, though, and I'm happy to take it to email on technical-board@ | 10:52 |
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| sabdfl | i'm happy with b or c | 10:53 |
| sabdfl | mdz, your call | 10:53 |
| mdz | ok | 10:53 |
| mdz | any other BRIEF business? ;-) | 10:53 |
| sabdfl | done! | 10:54 |
| sabdfl | and well done | 10:54 |
| mdz | thanks, all | 10:54 |
| sabdfl | very pleased to see the MOTU reaching this point | 10:54 |
| sabdfl | welcome aboard, new devs | 10:55 |
| mdz | adjourned | 10:55 |
| mdke | (sorry for missing the meeting - was a long day) | 10:55 |
| mdke | thanks for discussing the spec anyway | 10:55 |
| mdz | mdke: you can review the log | 10:55 |
| mdke | mdz: sure | 10:56 |
| ajmitch | thanks for sitting through & approving the council | 10:56 |
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| === mdke reviews dinner first | ||
| sistpoty | yay, thanks for the MC thingie :) | 10:57 |
| sabdfl | is there a scribe? | 10:57 |
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| mdz | I summarized the meeting in Issue30 | 10:58 |
| mdz | the scribes have their first meeting scheduled this week | 10:59 |
| mdz | that meeting should be summarized if any ever was ;-) | 10:59 |
| dholbach | night sabdfl, night mdz | 10:59 |
| mdz | night dholbach | 10:59 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 20:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
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| ausimage | sabdfl: You still up? | 11:42 |
| sabdfl | sure | 11:42 |
| ausimage | hey good... | 11:42 |
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| ausimage | I am one of the people starting Scribes | 11:42 |
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| tonyyarusso | ? | 11:43 |
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| willys_fueguino | @schedule ushuaia | 12:12 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/Argentina/Ushuaia: 31 Jan 17:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 19:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 20:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 17:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 09:00: Edubuntu | 12:12 |
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