=== CarlFK [n=carl@24.13.53.221] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:27] heya everybody [12:27] Hey Toadstool. [12:27] hi TheMuso === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:28] Hey Toadstool [12:28] debuild -i clean should work right? [12:28] hey rmjb === Toadstool never uses debuild [12:34] Toadstool: why not? [12:34] it's shorter to type :-) [12:34] And generates a .build file as well. [12:35] And if installed, I think it uses linda/lintian to check the package. [12:35] and signs the .dsc and .changes [12:36] LaserJock: well... I prefer my cowbuilder most of the time === rmjb_ [n=richard@cuscon23912.tstt.net.tt] has joined #ubuntu-motu === giskard [n=giskard@213-140-22-74.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === givr1 [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-89-203.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-89-203.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === hub [n=hub@toronto-hs-216-138-231-194.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === suppressingfire [n=burner@cpe-24-24-95-18.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === suppressingfire [n=burner@cpe-24-24-95-18.stny.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === fowlduck [n=nate@24-183-45-79.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rrittenhouse [n=tad@cpe-76-188-35-66.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ademan [n=dan@h-67-101-215-128.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sponix [n=family@c-68-51-218-205.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cypher1_ [n=cypher1@59.92.150.242] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fowlduck [n=nate@24-183-45-79.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RAOF [n=chris@202.63.35.99] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rob [i=rob@freenode/staff/rob] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:28] \o_ === lakin [n=lakin@S01060013101832ce.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === treyh0 [n=trey@unaffiliated/treyh0] has joined #ubuntu-motu === treyh0 [n=trey@unaffiliated/treyh0] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:55] Heya gang [02:56] hi bddebian [02:56] Hi ajmitch, what's happening? === ajmitch thinks this may take awhile to rsync [02:56] 800K files & counting.. [02:57] w00t [02:58] lovely [02:58] Hmm, what to do, what to do [02:58] fix bugs [02:58] now [02:59] Which bugs? [02:59] ajmitch, any idea how many RC bugs have been fixed since autosync was switched off? [03:00] Fujitsu: that's what I'm finding out [03:00] I knew you were trying to find out what packages they were in, but I thought you might have a total. [03:01] no, to get a total I need to know the bugs [03:04] 1532694 files to consider [03:04] yeah [03:04] Ouch. === ajmitch waits for the 12GB or so of data to rsync [03:05] That's impressive. [03:05] debian BTS [03:05] it has a lot of stuff [03:05] Obviously. [03:05] I can imagine. [03:05] I checked with jamesh, LP is just pulling from a mirror of the BTS as well [03:05] I saw. [03:05] yeah [03:06] thankfully I've got access to that data as well [03:06] It'd be nice to have access to the LP data as well, rather than screenscraping :( [03:07] Of course, you're a DD-god. [03:08] even the bugsquad with their legendary bughelper resort to screen-scraping LP [03:08] Yup. [03:09] It's not particularly pleasant doing so. [03:09] I wonder if LaserJock has that on his list. [03:10] yep [03:11] we also have some essential things on the list that debian has [03:11] like version information in bugs [03:11] bddebian: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile/+bug/82182 - Please? :) [03:11] Malone bug 82182 in exaile "exaile: Merge new debian version" [Undecided,Confirmed] [03:13] 25k files rsynced, 1.5 million to go! === fbond_ [n=fab@pool-71-169-146-143.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:13] ajmitch, is there a copy of said list around? [03:13] (and version information is rather essential, yes) [03:13] Fujitsu: not that I know of, ask LaserJock === hoora_214 [i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-0b94c637db393cf2] has joined #ubuntu-motu === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:30] Hi Hobbsee. [03:31] hey Fujitsu [03:31] Hobbsee! [03:32] ajmitch! [03:32] How's the Great Rsync(tm) going, ajmitch? [03:34] 70k done [03:34] 14612000 to go [03:35] Haahha. [03:35] yeah, nothing to worry about [03:36] maybe I should have tarred it up first on the box before copying [03:36] Probably. [03:36] It would probably have compressed well. [03:36] oh well [03:36] got nothing better to do :) [03:37] except work, which I can do while waiting :) [03:37] Wouldn't it be nice if LP did something like this? [03:37] It really should. [03:41] Hi Hobbsee - Thanks for the overnight (for me) info on 3.5.6 and Dapper. [03:44] ScottK: which? [03:44] ah [03:48] Whoa, did some finally do fnfx? [03:49] Yup, StevenK did. [03:49] bddebian: yeah, StevenK === ScottK goes back to getting his posterior kicked by lintian and LSB initscripts. [03:49] Nice [03:49] On a positive note my laptop now runs Feisty just fine. [03:50] Nice 2 :) [03:56] bddebian, Can you review my merge request? [03:56] somerville32: You mean the one I already uploaded? [03:57] Yup, that one [03:57] ;] [03:59] bddebian, When did you uploadi t? [03:59] About 10-20 minutes ago [04:00] 20 minutes ago [04:05] ScottK: ahh, there's your official answer. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-users/2007-January/012932.html [04:07] Yeah. I saw that. I was hoping he'd change his mind. [04:08] About time I redid my desktop install anyway.... === lifeless [n=robertc@ppp245-86.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:10] ScottK: we cant support *everything* - and all of kde takes ages to build. [04:11] I'd have hoped the LTS release would continue to get the new KDE updates, but I understand. [04:12] I'm certainly getting far more than I paid for with Kubuntu, so I'm not going to complain. [04:12] Why not, the rest of us do :) [04:12] L( [04:12] *:) [04:13] bddebian: Dunno if you read kubuntu-users, but some of the responses to that e-mail were, IMO, way over the top. [04:14] I'll keep my complaining to merging courier for the moment. [04:15] :-) === CarlF1 [n=carl@c-24-13-53-221.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:17] ScottK: i havent read them - but we start having to get more and more later versions of libs. [04:17] ScottK: and people dont get that security updates get backported separately === Hobbsee reads [04:18] ScottK: why arent you in #kubuntu-devel, btw? === mayday_jay [n=mayday_j@maydayjay.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:19] Hobbsee: Hey, he's ours, you can't have him! :-) [04:20] Hobbsee, Why aren't you in #xubuntu-devel? [04:20] bddebian: -motu is non de-specific [04:20] somerville32: because i dont do xfce stuff? [04:20] bddebian: also, he's already in kubuntu-testers [04:20] :-) [04:20] Hobbsee, You could start ;] [04:22] somerville32: could, yes. [04:22] what? people actually use KDE?! === Toadstool runs [04:22] Toadstool: yes. === Hobbsee attacks Toadstool with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [04:22] ScottK: i thought the backlash would be mroe than that [04:23] noooo ! not the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [04:23] ahh, missed a lot [04:23] yes! it is! [04:23] :) === Toadstool waves before he gets doomed [04:24] Heh, heya Toadstool [04:24] hey bddebian === No1Viking [n=micke@h-83-140-104-74.ip.rixbredband.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:37] So. What have I missed? [04:37] In the time my DSL decided to die. [04:37] TheMuso: just Toadstool being doomed [04:38] Hobbsee: Oh ok. === ScottK is back. Joined kubuntu-devel. [04:39] ScottK: woo :) [04:40] kubuntu? What the hell is that? :) === Hobbsee attacks TheMuso with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! too [04:40] If it doesn't talk, I don't wanna knwo about it! :) [04:40] know even [04:41] bah. talking distros are so overated.. [04:41] Hobbsee: You would never harm a blind defenceless person. [04:41] TheMuso: depends :P [04:41] besides, you're not defenseless [04:41] How would you know? :) === ScottK doesn't think TheMuso is defenseless. [04:42] =/c [04:42] bah [04:42] All lies! [04:45] TheMuso: your cane [04:47] Cool. Now that I have Kubuntu Feisty I can confirm that my KTNEF bug is fixed (it's a universe package, so not OT)! [04:48] ScottK: yay! === ScottK starts the build process for courier again... [04:50] If any of you MOTUs are out there enjoying my courier pain, maybe you could review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4179 while I sit here and beat my head against the desk... [04:58] Hobbsee: That thing is as flimsy as a feather. [04:59] pity... [05:00] SO I am defenceless. === WikiMan [n=MatthewV@202.183.115.247] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu pushes TheMuso over, and runs away, chortling. [05:04] ooooooooou [05:04] that hurt === Weems [n=frodo@unaffiliated/weems] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Yagisan [n=Yagisan@doomsday/developer/Yagisan] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ScottK starts to build courier AGAIN and goes to bed... === somerville32 pets ScottK. === rexbron [n=rexbron@complex1-372-008.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zenrox [i=zenrox@pool-71-115-200-45.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:36] evening MOTUers [06:37] hey LaserJock [06:37] Heya LaserJock [06:37] Heya LaserJock [06:37] Heya LaserJock [06:38] what a day [06:39] Hi LaserJock. [06:42] LaserJock, do you have a bug on The List about having a non-screenscraping interface to Malone? [06:42] not really [06:44] I'll have to work on that [06:44] I'm not sure what to do about that === fdoving [n=frode@edge.lnix.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:45] hi all [06:47] Heya zakame [06:48] hi zakame [06:48] Fujitsu: the non-screenscraping stuff sounds like a spec [06:49] LaserJock, I'd call it a High-priority bug, as any BTS should have such a feature; but perhaps you are right. [06:49] Fujitsu: you mean the mythical xml-rpc interface [06:50] which was promised months/years ago [06:50] hello bddebian LaserJock [06:50] ajmitch, yep, most mythical it is. [06:50] Like 2 years ago, yeah. [06:50] yes, where's xml-rpc? [06:50] well, I was told that xml-rpc exists, it just isn't public [06:50] And the most-complete email interface we have. [06:50] I remember those talks with bradb in sydney... [06:50] LaserJock, a basic interface is public. [06:50] I don't believe any other one exists. [06:50] at UDU, I think it was late april 2005 [06:50] so nearly 2 years [06:50] (where basic == the current extent of the Malone email interface) [06:50] ajmitch, that's what I meant. [06:50] anyway, it is one of the things I'm interested in [06:51] but I think there probably already exists a spec for it [06:51] I'd put it at rather high priority. === Fujitsu looks for said spec/bug. [06:51] sure [06:51] it won't be public [06:51] that's what I'm running into right now [06:52] all the specs are on the non-public wiki [06:52] But I'll be able to see if it exists or not. [06:52] Of course, but their existence can be verified. [06:52] by harassing your local LP developer? [06:52] well, hopefully I'll have access soon enough [06:52] LaserJock: aren't you the privileged one? :) [06:53] soon [06:53] (xfer#341736, to-check=1190917/1532694) [06:53] LaserJock: You're comfortable with the requisite infinite number of NDAs? [06:53] woo, only 1.1 millon to go! [06:53] ajmitch, not too bad. [06:53] Fujitsu: of course [06:54] Fujitsu: I don't need a large chunk of it, but I may as well rsync it now for future bug crawling [06:55] Fujitsu: if I want to make any helpful changes I gotta do what I've gotta do [06:55] I guess so. [06:56] Aha, bug #30941. [06:56] Malone bug 30941 in malone "Should be able to output YAML or XML" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30941 [06:57] currently malone is no better than any other proprietary platform for locking up data [06:58] hmm, heno wants it too [06:58] I find it to be infinitely good at locking up data. [07:00] It surely can't be that freaking hard to give XML dumps of data :-/ [07:00] no, but if people aren't requesting it they probably aren't going to work on it much [07:01] hopefully I can help get the priorities up on some of those things [07:01] Well, we need to request it a lot then :) [07:01] Hopefully. [07:01] well, it's not alway volume either [07:01] if we can say "This is something MOTU wants" [07:01] I think it has more weight [07:02] Surely `this is something heno wants' also carries some weight. [07:02] if I want to do mass bug-crunching in some script, I don't want to be waiting a minute for eveyr bug page to come up & be scraped [07:02] and heno (who represents the distro team in LP meetings) requestiong helps [07:02] ajmitch: of course, but I don't think the LP guys know we are doing that [07:02] I told kiko about some of the stuff I've been doing [07:02] using Fujitu's bug script, etc. [07:02] ajmitch, exactly. I dumped my extended version of my bug scraper because it would have taken ages just to run on the science bugs. [07:02] LaserJock: they'll know once the load hits ;) [07:03] and he was kinda shocked [07:03] LaserJock: what bug script? [07:03] Fujitsu wrote a simple script to get MOTU Science bugs [07:03] parse the table & fetch the bugs? [07:03] it's sad that you have to do that [07:03] ajmitch, no. That was too slow. It just parses the +packagebugs into a sane HTML table, and filters out those with no bugs. [07:03] I originally wrote it to parse the bugs seperately. [07:04] why am I not surprised that it'd be slow? :) [07:04] http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/bugs.html [07:04] But it was too slow, so I dumped the idea. [07:04] this is why I'm glad I can access the raw debian BTS data [07:04] as large as it is [07:04] well, I will give a report at the next LP dev meeting [07:05] So kiko didn't know the lengths we've been going to? [07:05] I think this is for sure one of the issues I want to bring up [07:05] Fujitsu: I don't think so [07:05] he said we shouldn't have to do that [07:05] -headdesk- [07:05] and he's willing to put resources to that end I believe === ajmitch should not be needing to write scripts to compare bugs closed in debian with packages in ubuntu [07:06] the automagical linking utopia of launchpad should be able to handle most of that for me [07:06] ajmitch, isn't that what LP is meant to solve? [07:06] Yep. [07:06] of course [07:06] 'is meant to' != 'does' [07:06] True. [07:07] yep [07:07] I don't like the attitude of the LP people to quite a number of bugs, which they just answer with "we'll look at it post-1.0". For example, bug #61024 (which incited my parsing python script). [07:07] Malone bug 61024 in malone "+packagebugs could have better filtering." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61024 [07:08] we're not paying customers ;) [07:09] well, I truely hope we can have more voice now [07:09] I'm afraid that I'd prefer to be stuck on Bugzilla than LP with some of these things :-/ [07:09] LaserJock, I think we all do. [07:09] so far everybody has been very good about it === raphink [n=raphink@raphink.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:10] convince sabdfl to hire more competent people to work on it :) [07:10] Gnight gents [07:10] but I can see when they are very busy getting it ready for users [07:10] ajmitch, or convince sabdfl to open it. [07:10] ajmitch: I'm not sure if I can do a whole lot there :-) === Fujitsu ducks. [07:10] I honestly don't think that'd do anything [07:10] Fujitsu: HAH [07:11] but I don't know [07:11] I'm just a chemist ;-) [07:11] LaserJock, what use is it having it ready for users, if it's unsuitable for devs? [07:11] devs can workaround easier than users? [07:11] If the bugs go into this hole that is LP, and the devs can't get them out properly... [07:12] well, seriously, I don't think it's *that* bad [07:12] I still get out what I need [07:12] it just could be easier [07:12] and we need to be moving forward === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:12] Can someone tell me how https://launchpad.net/~motuscience/+packagebugs is even vaguely useful? [07:12] well, it was when I first started using it [07:13] if you subscribe MOTU Science to a bug it works fine [07:13] We've got this great page, listing 500 packages, most of which don't have bugs, and some which do, with no way of seperating them except screenscraping, and even then no way of listing the bugs. [07:13] yep, but we are a corner case [07:13] although probably not for long [07:14] most teams don't have more than 10-20 packages to look after [07:15] if we are pushing the envelope of what people are doing with LP of course it's going to be rough [07:15] Not for long? The bug about it has had the dreaded `post-1.0' response. It has been condemned. [07:15] whatever [07:15] I can push for it [07:15] and see what happened [07:15] *happens [07:15] I shall be interested to see what comes of it. [07:15] but what I meant was that MOTU Science is still a corner case [07:16] I think more teams like us will come up [07:16] Perhaps. [07:17] but all this takes time [07:17] I guess that's the frustrating part [07:17] I don't mind if there are bugs, it'd just be nice to get them fixed :-) [07:17] ... and fixed in less than 2 years. [07:17] but look at that maxima bug [07:17] ... and features that were promised 2 years ago implemented. [07:18] that took over 6 months [07:18] it happens [07:18] It did. But that was an elusive problem, without full-time developers. [07:18] These are feature requests, where the developers know the code, and they're not elusive fixes in 54kloc patches. [07:18] sure, but the problem remains, if there are more bugs than people to fix them you have to leave some unfixed for a while [07:19] 2 years > a while, IMO. [07:19] well it is a long time [07:19] but things happen [07:20] it seems to me that LP is so very complex and there are so many interdependecies that it takes longer to fix things [07:20] Yes, things like breaking the capability of non core-devs to target things to releases. [07:20] that wasn't breaking [07:20] Different people seem to work on their specific parts. [07:20] It is a regression. [07:20] that was feature that didn't work out ;-) [07:21] I don't know [07:22] I just don't see how LP is worse than any other BTS [07:22] and it has a lot of nice things too [07:22] it seems like a bit of an experiment for sure [07:22] but it seems to me like it has a lot of potential [07:23] of course tomorrow I'll be curing it up and down ;-) [07:23] *cursing [07:24] When's the meeting? [07:24] Thursday 12:00 UTC === rob [i=rob@freenode/staff/rob] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:24] OK. [07:26] I actually won't be there in person [07:26] 12:00UTC is 04:00 local and I'll be at a conference [07:29] but I think I'm going to have a "Top 5" bug list [07:29] and really hammer those [07:32] Have you worked out that top 5 yet? [07:32] no [07:32] I'm still working on my complete list of bugs [07:32] I've got soyuz and malone down [07:32] Good, good. [07:32] I still need to do the general LP bugs for things like teams, etc. [07:33] I know polling is something they are working on [07:33] What's wrong with polling at the moment? [07:33] I think having effective ways of setting meeting times, voting, etc. would be nice [07:33] it's a pain [07:36] things that I think are candidates for the Top 5 might be [07:37] knowing why you are getting bug email (what team) [07:37] Yup. [07:37] +packagebugs === cypher1 [i=cypher1@nat/hp/x-17af93c0621ab9e3] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:38] Definitely. [07:39] maybe karma for uploads :-) [07:39] Allow +filebug?tag=... URLs for pre-setting tags [07:40] There should be a report to show "Needs Info bugs that have had a response" or When replying to a Needs Info bug, it should be possible to say "I provided the Info" [07:40] I guess that's 5 [07:41] Those three, particularly the last, are also rather important. [07:41] That does make 5. [07:41] there are also several bugs about using bug reporting templates [07:41] oh python is so nice [07:42] one in particular would allow for a "please add this info" or "bug reporting notes" for +filebug for *each* package [07:42] ajmitch: Why? (though, that is its job) [07:42] it makes the tricky things far more possible & understandable [07:42] LaserJock: That'd be nice! [07:42] easier to code something if you can keep it in your head & follow the code [07:43] now all I need is the magic data [07:43] ajmitch, so the code might actually work? [07:44] of course it'll work [07:44] I've opened a bug to allow motu-sru to approve uploads to -proposed but that'll take a spec [07:44] I can get a list of closed bugs in a few seconds, rather than a few minutes via ldap [07:44] But it carries the LP-lacking-workaround curse. [07:44] So it won't work, ajmitch. [07:44] so I'm not going to put it on a Top 5 since I want to actually get something in the Top 5 fixed ;-) [07:45] ajmitch: but downloading all of BTS? [07:45] s/but/by/ [07:45] Those that are in the Top 5 look fairly simple. [07:45] I think so, we'll see what the response is ;-) [07:45] I've noticed that many of the bugs were reported by the LP devs [07:45] LaserJock: sure :) [07:46] and never got any comments from "real users" [07:46] I bet the response to most of them will be `post-1.0'. [07:46] well, they are making a big push [07:46] but I know one of them is a fix-it-friday bug [07:46] LaserJock: I can rsync the bts data in future - at least this way it's not putting big load on servers [07:46] ahhh [07:46] good point [07:46] ajmitch: how big is it? === ajmitch has been thunking [07:47] a mere 12 GB [07:47] holy cow!!! [07:47] ajmitch: Why are there so many files, as there are only like 400k bugs? [07:47] each bug is in 4 files [07:47] or 5, I can't recall [07:47] That would do it. [07:47] I just need to open the ones I want & parse them [07:48] And then we can get lots of nice bugs fixed :) [07:48] you know, I'd like a per package whiteboard [07:48] does that exist? [07:48] LaserJock: No. [07:48] That would be too convenient. === LaserJock adds to his "ideas" list [07:49] I'd like the ability to see upstream-forwarding status from the main bug listing. [07:49] ok, I've restarted the rsync, skipping the archived bugs for now [07:49] ajmitch: How many files now? [07:49] I want to get the active bugs first & then worry about historical data [07:49] without the archived bugs, 591096 in total [07:49] Still ouch. [07:49] yep :) [07:50] I can use the britney python extension to do quick version comparisons === ajmitch just needs to check it against real data [07:50] are you going to opensource your script? ;-) [07:50] hah [07:51] no, it's too much of a messy hack ;) === LaserJock holds back comments [07:51] Of course not! It's, erm, what was it... `part of the service Canonical offers to other companies producing distributions' *cough* MoM *cough* [07:51] main problem is that it won't be as useful without a local BTS mirror [07:51] hmm yeah [07:51] but it's in my scripts branch anyway [07:51] I was pretty disappointed with MoM's closed sourceness [07:52] ah well [07:52] such is life === ajmitch will write up a MoM replacement [07:52] I was not impressed to see Keybuk say that :-/ [07:53] well, I don't exactly use MoM anyway [07:53] but I think it does do some cool things [07:53]