[12:56] <highvoltage> @schedule
[12:56] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 31 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 22:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 20:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 12:00: Edubuntu
[02:39] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[02:39] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 01 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 01 Feb 09:00: Xubuntu | 01 Feb 10:00: Kubuntu | 02 Feb 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Feb 07:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 23:00: Edubuntu
[05:11] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[05:11] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 31 Jan 14:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 16:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 17:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 14:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 06:00: Edubuntu
[05:12] <phanatic> @schedule Amsterdam
[05:12] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 31 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Feb 00:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 21:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu
[06:47] <ryanakca> @schedule Toronto
[06:47] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 31 Jan 15:00: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 17:00: Xubuntu | 31 Jan 18:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 15:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu
[08:51] <pirast> @schedule Berlin
[08:51] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Feb 00:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 21:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu
[09:00] <RichEd> evening all
[09:00] <pips1> hi
[09:00] <cbx33> evening RichEd pips1
[09:01] <RichEd> ogra ... you around ?
[09:01] <ogra> indeed
[09:01] <pips1> hello AliasVegas
[09:01] <cbx33> hey ogra get my really large email?
[09:01] <AliasVegas> Hi Guys! ^_^
[09:01] <cbx33> oooh nice smiley babes
[09:01] <highvoltage> hi AliasVegas, cbx33, pips1 ogra and RichEd
[09:01] <AliasVegas> hehe
[09:02] <highvoltage> RichEd: I did the same today, but I feel relieved instead ;)
[09:02] <RichEd> hi AliasVegas good to "see" you :)
[09:02] <rodarvus> good evening all
[09:02] <RichEd> hello rodarvus :)
[09:02] <highvoltage> ho rodarvus
[09:02] <pips1> hey rodarvus
[09:02] <highvoltage> hi, even :)
[09:02] <ogra> cbx33, yes, but i didnt look at the package yet
[09:02] <rodarvus> hey guys :)
[09:02] <ogra> cbx33, i read the first 4 pages during a break thoough
[09:03] <cbx33> oooh look ok?
[09:03] <ogra> there is some stuff you will need to correct, but all over its very good, kudos
[09:03] <cbx33> please say yes
[09:03] <cbx33> yes....i knew there would be
[09:03] <cbx33> hence why I was so desperate for you to read over it
[09:03] <ogra> you got some facts wrong, but thats easy to fix
[09:03] <cbx33> haha
[09:03] <cbx33> in which section?
[09:03] <ogra> nothing harmful
[09:03] <cbx33> outta interest?
[09:03] <cbx33> without too much detail
[09:04] <ogra> well, you start off with me being the project leader of edubuntu :)
[09:04] <ogra> i'm onl ythe tech lead
[09:04] <cbx33> oh i see
[09:04] <RichEd> Well ogra you are the lead of Edubuntu indeed :)
[09:04] <cbx33> i thought i said that
[09:04] <ogra> and you shouldnt use nfs servers for time syncronization ... that wont work
[09:04] <ogra> :)
[09:05] <RichEd> Your the chief product lead, I'm just the hand wavy education guy.
[09:05] <RichEd> *You're
[09:05] <ogra> heh, nah ...
[09:05] <cbx33> ogra, hahahaha
[09:05] <RichEd> Looks like a good turnout for the meeting tonight - hope we can get through the necessary in less than 2 hours or before I doze off, whichever comes sooner.
[09:05] <cbx33> I didn't mean NFS
[09:05] <highvoltage> ogra: you can't run away, we've got you in a corner now!
[09:05] <ogra> anyway, lets quickly run through the tech section
[09:05] <cbx33> i meant NTP
[09:05] <RichEd> Shall we kick off ... with (drum roll) Oliver on Tech !
[09:05] <pips1> RichEd: that term 'hand waving' really stuck with me, ever since I heard you use it (in Mountainview)
[09:06] <ogra> specs:
[09:06] <ogra> edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound: missing one main inclusion for alsa-plugins, apart from that it's done and rocking the house :)
[09:06] <Maikel> @schedule amsterdam
[09:06] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Feb 00:00: Kubuntu | 01 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Feb 21:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu
[09:07] <Maikel> Sorry..
[09:07] <ogra> ltsp-management-gui: python-ltsp (the backend module) is about done, still have to do the gui rewrite .. will start over the weekend
[09:07] <ogra> student-control-panel-upgrade: well, see petes blog
[09:07] <ogra> its soooo sexy !!!!!!
[09:07] <cbx33> it's going well
[09:08] <cbx33> and the rewrite of the DES encyrption bit switcher worked
[09:08] <cbx33> so we can now ship VNC stuff
[09:08] <cbx33> which was in jeperdy at one point
[09:08] <ogra> edubuntu-network-auth-server: the thing im fighting with since i came back from oslo, spec will need a bunch of changes and the auth server will only be set up for new installs for now
[09:08] <highvoltage> cbx33: very nice stuff
[09:08] <cbx33> AliasVegas, and I have to go at 9 today....but we do have some artwork updates...
[09:08] <nixternal> oi!
[09:08] <ogra> we wont be able to use the planned frontend, its simply to buggy
[09:09] <cbx33> :(
[09:09] <ogra> i'm lookinf for something in replacement atm
[09:09] <RichEd> mr nixternal .. hey hey
[09:09] <ajmitch> which frontend?
[09:09] <ajmitch> edsadmin?
[09:09] <ogra> we could take lat which is considered for upstream inclusion at some point as well
[09:09] <ogra> ajmitch, yep
[09:09] <ajmitch> hm, lat is nice but may be complex
[09:10] <ajmitch> plus we need to fix the package so it builds
[09:10] <ogra> after using it extensively for one week i saw more chrashes that i would have expected
[09:10] <ogra> it will be some major work to get it to a level where we could ship it as default
[09:10] <ajmitch> unfortunate
[09:10] <ogra> i havent seen any crashers with lat yet
[09:11] <ajmitch> 1.2.x FTBFS
[09:11] <ogra> but i extremely dislike its UI
[09:11] <ogra> so i'm still looking around
[09:11] <ajmitch> oh that's a simple fix, I'll do that now
[09:11] <highvoltage> UI sounds like something cbx33 is good at, so that will probably be the next phase :)
[09:11] <ajmitch> if you could check out lat 1.2.x, it may be an improvement over 1.0.7
[09:11] <cbx33> heheh
[09:12] <ogra> highvoltage, well, lat is mono
[09:12] <cbx33> ogra, and...
[09:12] <cbx33> heheh
[09:12] <cbx33> I can learn mono
[09:12] <cbx33> heheh
[09:12] <ogra> and edsadmins UI is fine it just explodes all the time
[09:12] <ajmitch> C# is easy :)
[09:12] <highvoltage> 333/win 3
[09:12] <highvoltage> fefefe
[09:12] <nixternal> hahaha
[09:12] <nixternal> ok, now I am gone
[09:13] <highvoltage> ew
[09:13] <highvoltage> oops, sorry
[09:13] <ogra> anyway, edubuntu-network-auth server should be done before feature freeze, even though it moght not yet be the ful specced variant
[09:13] <ogra> edubuntu-auth-client will either be ajmitch's login tool ... but i dont know the status
[09:13] <ogra> or a static config that points to the local edubuntu server for now
[09:13] <ajmitch> mostly there, I've got a few spare days
[09:14] <ajmitch> public holiday in a couple of days :)
[09:14] <ogra> important for me with these two specs is that we got all bits and pieces in this time  ...
[09:14] <cbx33> only a week left
[09:14] <ajmitch> plus you were going to do a metapackage that asks debconf questions & preseeds?
[09:14] <ogra> we can improve beyond basic authentication over the releases
[09:14] <ajmitch> I guess that'll have to come once I ship this for you
[09:14] <Mithrandir> (we're about a week from creature freeze, uh, feature freeze)
[09:14] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: yep, I know :)
[09:14] <ogra> ajmitch, i'm doing a udeb for feisty ...
[09:14] <cbx33> Mithrandir, tell me about it
[09:14] <cbx33> :p
[09:15] <ajmitch> ogra: ok, using debconf?
[09:15] <ogra> ajmitch, which will then do the preseeding
[09:15] <ogra> yep
[09:15] <ajmitch> great
[09:15] <ajmitch> define what you need preseeded & I'll grab that
[09:15] <ogra> essentially i dropped the metapackage idea for feisty ... its just to big but i want at least an ldap server in place
[09:15] <ajmitch> ok
[09:16] <ogra> else development will get stuck in feisty+1 .... too much of our future plans depends on network auth
[09:16] <ajmitch> using smbldap, I expect
[09:16] <ogra> i was planning to, but if that doesnt make FF, i'm also fine with a simple ldap auth ...
[09:16] <ajmitch> ah right
[09:17] <cbx33> ogra, ++ about the future plans
[09:17] <cbx33> hehe
[09:17] <ogra> the chorus here is "network authentication" no matter how ...
[09:17] <ajmitch> I'll get this client stuff done & working before I offer to help with server this week
[09:17] <ogra> we can improve in the future, having a working skeleton is the start for that ...
[09:18] <highvoltage> ogra++ about network authentication policy!
[09:18] <cbx33> ogra, I'm gonna need details of whatever we do for the book
[09:18] <cbx33> heheh
[09:18] <cbx33> but then you'll see where we are once you've read it all
[09:18] <highvoltage> ogra: I've found that easy painless authentication isn't too bad with sshfs, even though it uses fuse, wich may put off some people
[09:19] <rodarvus> highvoltage, not sure I understand the reasoning for that?
[09:19] <ajmitch> ogra: ok, I'll get this stuff in a day or two, no matter what :)
[09:20] <ajmitch> I have to run off to work now
[09:20] <rodarvus> (fuse being a reason for people to be scared)
[09:20] <highvoltage> rodarvus: it's basically for exporting a filesystem to a client that's booting from a seperate /
[09:20] <highvoltage> rodarvus: ah
[09:21] <rodarvus> :)
[09:21] <rodarvus> (but I might be missing something, of course)
[09:23] <rodarvus> (ogra is likely timed out, btw)
[09:23] <rodarvus> his connection, I mean
[09:23] <RichEd> i was wondering
[09:24] <cbx33> dang it
[09:24] <Burgwork> ogra, ajmitch: lat has major crashing issues
[09:24] <RichEd> Anybody with any other tech news in the meanwhile ?
[09:24] <RichEd> rodarvus do you want to let people know about your moodle packaging efforts ?
[09:25] <rodarvus> I do, but I'd like ogra to be here
[09:25] <RichEd> okie ... anyone else ?
[09:25] <cbx33> don't think so
[09:25] <rodarvus> since he raised a point on wwwconfig-common I'm interested in hearing
[09:25] <cbx33> hey UbaGeek
[09:25] <UbaGeek> hey cbx33
[09:25] <UbaGeek> this is cool
[09:25] <RichEd> I'll introduce the moodle bit then ... we're trying our best to get moodle integrated into Main for Edubuntu.
[09:26] <RichEd> I was in LCA a week or so ago, and met Martin Douigiamas, the founder of moodle.
[09:26] <RichEd> He is keen for us to succeed, and to work on spreading both products as a bundle.
[09:27] <RichEd> LAMS and moodle are also looking at integration and interoperability, and LAMS are also keen to see a Edubuntu / moodle / LAMS easy install bundle.
[09:27] <cbx33> RichEd, this is all going to be awesome
[09:27] <cbx33> ogra, must get hacked off with his net connection
[09:28] <RichEd> The good news for us is that many people want moodle and LAMS as a resource tool, and just want a stable server underneath. That means we can get into libraries and universities and schools even if they are using other distros on the server and desktop space.
[09:28] <cbx33> yup
[09:29] <RichEd> moodle is also working on a "moodle cloud" where you can set your server up and join a voluntary clound, and when a user authenticates against any singel server, they are free to move across all servers with the same log-in.
[09:29] <RichEd> *cloud
[09:29] <RichEd> so our steps are: #1 bundle moodle with main
[09:30] <Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportMoodle
[09:30] <Burgwork> that needs to be dealt with
[09:30] <RichEd> rodarvus is busy with that, he'll give an update when ogra is back
[09:30] <rodarvus> I can start my technical overview on the process
[09:30] <rodarvus> but would like ogra to be here
[09:31] <RichEd> step#2 will be a Edubuntu/moodle/database single CD .iso - easy intall, minimal questions and config
[09:31] <cbx33> can we skip to artwork?
[09:31] <cbx33> in a sec
[09:31] <cbx33> as lisa and I only have 30 mins left
[09:31] <RichEd> so we hope that moodle will recommend our image as being the simplest up & go option.
[09:31] <Burgwork> RichEd: for that we need to create a moodle task, I suspect
[09:32] <Burgwork> cbx33: go
[09:32] <rodarvus> actually, more than that, what I would like to see (or do, even) is a graphical installation/configuration tool for moodle
[09:32] <RichEd> yep, but moodle will cooperate and we can chew it from both ends.
[09:32] <pips1> Burgwork: 'moodle task' = ?
[09:32] <cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg - meet the new feisty edubuntu homies
[09:32] <Burgwork> rodarvus: better to have the graphical client be a web-based thingy, I suspect
[09:32] <Burgwork> pips1: using tasksel for the installer
[09:32] <RichEd> and step#3 will be LAMS but that will be feisty+1 or +2
[09:33] <highvoltage> pips1: debian terminology ;)
[09:33] <RichEd> cbx33: you can go ahead ...
[09:33] <cbx33> AliasVegas, has been hard at work
[09:33] <rodarvus> Burgwork, its kind of a chicken and egg problem, but can be dealt with
[09:33] <pips1> Burgwork: ta
[09:33] <AliasVegas> lol
[09:33] <pips1> cbx33, AliasVegas niiiice
[09:33] <Burgwork> rodarvus: if you install the moodle server, you get asked for an IP and then told to go to that IP with your workstation
[09:33] <cbx33> pips1, -cbx33
[09:33] <cbx33> hehe
[09:34] <rodarvus> Burgwork, I'm talking about the server configuration, to be honest
[09:34] <Burgwork> rodarvus: for that we could use debconf
[09:34] <rodarvus> which is not trivial, and currently is our main point of headaches
[09:34] <rodarvus> Burgwork, we do
[09:35] <pips1> AliasVegas: I really like the way they poke fun with the 'victory' sign :_D
[09:35] <rodarvus> but lets move to artwork, and get back to moodle when ogra is here
[09:35] <AliasVegas> heheh :P
[09:35] <rodarvus> otherwise we'll have to discuss this twice :)
[09:35] <Burgwork> indeed
[09:36] <cbx33> hey willvdl
[09:36] <willvdl> hey, sorry I'm late
[09:36] <rodarvus> (but rationale is: some of the configuration is waaaay beyond what you'd do from inside debconf)
[09:36] <RichEd> there goes ogra ... me waves
[09:37] <froud> hey willvdl
[09:37] <willvdl> hey
[09:37] <AliasVegas> The clock idea for the ldm login screen has been put on hold till next release....not enough time to complete the code for the clock and it seems like a better idea to do it when the clock can be included
[09:37] <cbx33> AliasVegas, ++
[09:37] <cbx33> basically I'm too lazy
[09:38] <AliasVegas> pips1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
[09:38] <cbx33> that was the idea pips1
[09:39] <cbx33> and it will happen
[09:39] <cbx33> just not for feisty
[09:39] <pips1> *click*
[09:39] <pips1> wow
[09:39] <willvdl> pips1, I think it's very cool
[09:39] <Burgwork> pips1: looks great. Clean
[09:40] <cbx33> yes pips1 Great Work
[09:40] <cbx33> hehehe
[09:40] <RichEd> we were also talking about the possibility of making the message board realtime ... for school wide news and announcements
[09:40] <AliasVegas> :P
[09:40] <willvdl> gdesklet style :)
[09:40] <cbx33> RichEd, yes an MOTD system was something AliasVegas and I were keen to do
[09:40] <pips1> cbx33 :-P
[09:40] <pips1> hehe
[09:40] <RichEd> looks slick & clean
[09:40] <cbx33> and we thought the clock woud give it a nice look
[09:40] <cbx33> and something dynamic too
[09:40] <cbx33> but that's for feisty + 1
[09:41] <cbx33> so...
[09:41] <highvoltage> would be nice if a teacher could choose all the widgets and place them like gdeskletts, but that's of course way off :)
[09:41] <cbx33> yes
[09:41] <AliasVegas> any comments on the latest artwork?? http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg
[09:42] <pips1> highvoltage: nice imagination! :)
[09:42] <RichEd> AliasVegas: very anime ... quite hip :)
[09:42] <AliasVegas> thanks RichEd
[09:43] <cbx33> ogra, wb
[09:43] <highvoltage> AliasVegas: well, I don't know if you read the original comments about edubuntugirl, some people might have a problem about where the girl's one hand is
[09:43] <pips1> AliasVegas: I like the expressions on their faces (especially the smirk of the guy)
[09:43] <ogra> *SIGH*
[09:43] <highvoltage> AliasVegas: but it's quite cool :)
[09:43] <RichEd> welcome back ogra
[09:43] <willvdl> for the record, I did inquiries into artwork contributions. did anything come through on the ML?
[09:43] <pips1> highvoltage: shock! horror! ;-)
[09:43] <ogra> ok, i just discovered a bug in edubuntu-auth-server :)
[09:43] <AliasVegas> the guy isnt finished yet
[09:43] <RichEd> ogra: we're going through artwork ... 'cos alias and pete need to dash
[09:44] <cbx33> AliasVegas, can you repost the link for ogra
[09:44] <AliasVegas> this is what i have been workin on since 10am
[09:44] <AliasVegas> lol
[09:44] <RichEd> then back to ogra and rodarvus will give us a moodle update
[09:44] <AliasVegas> ogra http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg
[09:44] <ogra> did you guys contact kwii or did he contact you for artwork ?
[09:44] <cbx33> nope had no contact
[09:44] <ogra> hes the hired designer who will do all designs now it seems
[09:44] <pips1> !!
[09:44] <highvoltage> kwii, that's a kde wii emulator, right? right!?
[09:44] <willvdl> ogra, not cliff?
[09:45] <pips1> highvoltage: LOL
[09:45] <cbx33> ogra, when was this decided?
[09:45] <ogra> highvoltage, dont say that to him :) i think he's tired of hearing it ;)
[09:45] <Riddell> ogra: kwwii
[09:45] <ogra> cbx33, no idea when mark decided to make it final
[09:45] <willvdl> cbx33, remember two meeitngs back? the debate around feisty art contributions?
[09:45] <ogra> ken had done the kubuntu artwork in edgy
[09:45] <highvoltage> ogra: heh, ok
[09:45] <cbx33> willvdl, yes
[09:46] <cbx33> but there was no outcome as far as I knew
[09:46] <ogra> Riddell, ah, thanks ...
[09:46] <pips1> AliasVegas: I like the girls hair (on the left): nice shape and tones
[09:46] <AliasVegas> thanks pips1
[09:46] <ogra> cbx33, did you send the mail to ubuntu-art we talked about some meetings ago ?
[09:46] <AliasVegas> highvoltage: can you elaborate on the girls hand comment for me? : )
[09:47] <cbx33> ogra, i thought I had but didn't see it on the archive
[09:47] <ogra> that would be where kwwii would pick you up ...
[09:47] <cbx33> I'll mail him later
[09:47] <ogra> anyway, i'll try to get him to #edubuntu once
[09:47] <ogra> or that, even better
[09:47] <kwwii> evening
[09:47] <pips1> hello kwwii
[09:47] <willvdl> speak of the devil :)
[09:47] <ogra> heh, speaking of the devil
[09:47] <cbx33> ah hi kwwii
[09:47] <willvdl> snap
[09:47] <kwwii> a little bird told me to join
[09:47] <cbx33> kwwii...was just coming to look for you
[09:47] <cbx33> :p
[09:48] <kwwii> ;-)
[09:48] <ogra> kwwii, meet cbx33 and AliasVegas, our edubuntu artists :)
[09:48] <RichEd> what's the frequency kenneth  ?
[09:48] <ogra> Riddell, thanks for that ;)
[09:48] <kwwii> ogra, cbx33, AliasVegas, hi
[09:48] <AliasVegas> hi kwwii
[09:48] <kwwii> RichEd: original :p
[09:49] <cbx33> kwwii, so....where do we stand for artwork on edubuntu ;)
[09:49] <highvoltage> AliasVegas: heh, keep it like it is. I think it's fine. I also find emails like this amusing: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-October/000628.html
[09:49] <highvoltage> AliasVegas: so bring it on!
[09:49] <cbx33> we were just discussin this
[09:49] <cbx33>  http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg
[09:49] <kwwii> cbx33: well, until now I have only discussed working on the login screen with ogra
[09:49] <AliasVegas> highvoltage: heheh thatnks!! ^_^
[09:49] <kwwii> cbx33: it would depend on what needs to be done
[09:50] <kwwii> until now it is unclear to me how tied to ubuntu edubuntu is, art-wise
[09:50] <ogra> kwwii, we usually ship a default wallpaper with a kids wallpaper alongside ... http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg would be a kids variant ...
[09:50] <ogra> kwwii, login window, gnome splash, wallpaper(s)
[09:50] <ogra> thats usually what we change ...
[09:51] <kwwii> ogra: well, I will be working on Ubuntu and Kubuntu stuff anyway, so I guess some of that work could end up in edubuntu as well, if there is a desire to do it
[09:51] <ogra> right
[09:51] <kwwii> mainly, if we pick one look the hardest part is filling in all the pieces
[09:51] <ogra> thats why AliasVegas should coordinate it with you
[09:52] <kwwii> sounds great
[09:52] <ogra> edubuntu has a it more freedom to be more colorful and fresher ...
[09:52] <kwwii> we can discuss that offline, if it is not pertinent to this meeting
[09:52] <ogra> even though we start targeting older audience ...
[09:52] <highvoltage> ogra: perhaps this is not the right meeting for this, but isn't it possible that there would be a kubuntu edubuntu metapackage at some point, perhaps edubuntu should have a KDM theme as well?
[09:52] <ogra> kwwii, right ...
[09:53] <kwwii> sorry for disturbing :-)
[09:53] <ogra> highvoltage, i'd like to leave that to some kedubuntu people
[09:53] <ogra> kwwii, you never disturb, you know that :)
[09:53] <highvoltage> heh
[09:53] <ogra> highvoltage, your ressouces are to small to care for multiple DEs
[09:53] <rodarvus> kedubuntu!
[09:53] <kwwii> if we could somehow come to a state where all the *buntu's shared the same look it would be really easy ;-)
[09:54] <ogra> and if i would care for a second one my choice would be xfce for now
[09:54] <highvoltage> ogra: true, but often it's just a fact of life and we have to deal with it ^_^
[09:54] <ogra> simply because the request fr it is bigger in the edu landscape
[09:54] <kwwii> one set of SVGs with a makefile like "make blue"
[09:54] <ogra> and a script that only adjusts the color values :)
[09:54] <willvdl> kwwii, can you do that with svg?
[09:54] <ogra> easily
[09:55] <kwwii> I actually had something like that running for suse a long time ago
[09:55] <kwwii> ;-)
[09:55] <willvdl> useful
[09:55] <ogra> willvdl, you can edit svg with a text editor
[09:55] <rodarvus> I believe you can even embed js inside an svg
[09:55] <ogra> yep
[09:56] <ogra> you guys should probably schedule an artwork meeting or somethng like that
[09:56] <cbx33> ogra, already happeneing
[09:56] <ogra> if anything on the packaging side is needed, feel free to abuse me :)
[09:57] <cbx33> hehe
[09:57] <cbx33> oh i will
[09:57] <pips1> so the result is: kwii will coordinate with AliasVegas
[09:57] <ogra> right
[09:57] <ogra> and with me if it comes to technical details
[09:58] <AliasVegas> alrighty ^_^
[09:58] <ogra> is that it for artwork ? i'D like to finish tech ...
[09:58] <AliasVegas> Yep
[09:58] <cbx33> yes
[09:58] <cbx33> sorry ogra
[09:58] <pips1> AliasVegas: keep up the nice work, and tell us if kwwii is nasty, then we will gang up on him! ;-)
[09:58] <ogra> great, where did i stop ... edubuntu-network-client will either be ajmitch's tool or a static setup ...
[09:59] <AliasVegas> pips1: hehe thankyou!
[09:59] <ogra> during the crash i had some mins ago i found an evil bug with udev .... i have to examine that but it might stop edubuntu-auth-server from feisty ... :/
[10:00] <RichEd> pity :/
[10:00] <ogra> well, lets see
[10:00] <rodarvus> ouch
[10:00] <ogra> udev needs userauthentication and groupauthentication if it creates the initial devices
[10:00] <pips1> 8-O
[10:01] <ogra> that cant be there at this point if we are our own server (there is no filesystem mounted yet)
[10:01] <ogra> its probably solveable through an easy setting or something ... but its a bug i didnt expect
[10:02] <ogra> and it locked me out completely, so i needed a liveCD to recver
[10:02] <ogra> *recover
[10:02] <ogra> nothing i'd want to bother our testers with
[10:02] <highvoltage> ogra: just call it a random security feature
[10:02] <ogra> ok, something positive .....
[10:02] <ogra> edubuntu-on-two-cds
[10:02] <Mithrandir> uh, why can't it map unauthenticated accesses to nobody?  That should be enough to get you started.
[10:03] <ogra> Mithrandir, will look, i havent dug through all the nsswitch options yet
[10:03] <ogra> thanks for the pointer
[10:03] <ogra> :)
[10:03] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
[10:03] <ogra> edubuntu-on-two-cds ^^^^
[10:03] <pips1> yay
[10:03] <highvoltage> :-D
[10:03] <ogra> WE HAVE 650MB SPARE SPACE !!!!
[10:04] <ogra> (only on the server iso though)
[10:04] <willvdl> put in a wikipedia snapshot
[10:04] <willvdl> that should do it :)
[10:04] <ogra> the gnome-app-install hook is still missing
[10:04] <ogra> so the CD only starts up synaptic atm
[10:04] <rodarvus> ogra, not for long ;)
[10:04] <ogra> but even with that i'D be happy to go ;)
[10:04] <highvoltage> ogra: even that is a major improvement
[10:05] <rodarvus> cheers
[10:05] <highvoltage> bye rodarvus
[10:05] <ogra> ltsp-fat-clients: the one spec i wouldnt care to defer
[10:05] <rodarvus> no, I'm not leaving :)
[10:05] <ogra> if the auth-server makes it, it wil be implemented as well
[10:05] <rodarvus> (I meant "cheers" as "way to go!")
[10:05] <willvdl> highvoltage, he's drinking :)
[10:06] <ogra> all pieces apart from network aouth are implemented
[10:06] <highvoltage> willvdl: ah, of course, he's brazillian
[10:06] <rodarvus> nah, just coke
[10:06] <rodarvus> and poor command of english
[10:06] <ogra> but if that one desnt make it i wil drop fat clients as well
[10:06] <highvoltage> fat clients was always dependent on auth
[10:06] <ogra> ltsp-persistent-home: deferred
[10:07] <highvoltage> it's easy to hack up for an administrator who really, really wants it, at least
[10:07] <willvdl> ogra, I'm rusty on the spec for fat-client, is that a network booted diskless fat?
[10:07] <ogra> better-moodle-integration: rodarvus is packaging moodle 1.7 atm ...
[10:07] <ogra> thats al about tech
[10:07] <rodarvus> my turn, then
[10:07] <cbx33> phew that's a lot
[10:07] <Burgwork> we were talking about how to configure the moodle server
[10:07] <ogra> willvdl, thats a netbooted workstation
[10:07] <willvdl> ogra, cool
[10:08] <rodarvus> as RichEd said on his introduction to the moodle subject, I'm working on properly packaging moodle for main
[10:08] <ogra> Burgwork, not differently from the defaults now ... we need a safe upgrade path
[10:08] <Burgwork> ah
[10:08] <rodarvus> this task is twofold: removing the usage of wwwconfig-common from the postinst/postrm/prerm scripts
[10:08] <RichEd> [ Burgwork: the simple CD .iso will be a next step ] 
[10:08] <rodarvus> and, since we want to have a very close relationship with upstream (and for security reasons)
[10:09] <rodarvus> I'm also working on the update of our moodle package for the latest version
[10:09] <rodarvus> the rationale is we base our package on debian's, which is version 1.6.3
[10:09] <ogra> which should essentially only be a replacement of the orig.tar.gz ...
[10:09] <ogra> right
[10:09] <rodarvus> debian has frozen main, so won't have a new version for a while
[10:09] <rodarvus> ogra, no, it isn't
[10:09] <ogra> oh, why is that ?
[10:09] <rodarvus> database schema is different, for instance
[10:10] <ogra> ah
[10:10] <rodarvus> moodle 1.7.0 (.1, actually) is quite an upgrade from 1.6.x
[10:10] <rodarvus> various new modules, and added features
[10:10] <ogra> i only knew about added utf8 support
[10:10] <rodarvus> no :)
[10:10] <rodarvus> wait a sec, I'll grab the list
[10:11] <willvdl> A db schema change is quite drastic isn't it?
[10:11] <ogra> yes it is :/
[10:11] <rodarvus> Roles - Moodle has a complete new architecture for assigning people permissions.
[10:11] <rodarvus> XML database schema - Moodle now supports a single way of specifying database structures using XML
[10:11] <ogra> thats something we need to sort in our new upstream relationship
[10:11] <rodarvus> New admin interface
[10:11] <rodarvus> and
[10:11] <rodarvus> Unit testing framework
[10:11] <rodarvus> (various other small features too)
[10:11] <rodarvus> but these are the big ones
[10:12] <willvdl> how would the unit testing framework affect users?
[10:12] <rodarvus> it won't
[10:12] <rodarvus> its for developers only
[10:12] <rodarvus> but as moodle is quite extensible, we might see many users adding their own modules for added spice on their courses/seminars
[10:13] <willvdl> rodarvus, not tech doc yet, but is their documentation up to date?
[10:13] <rodarvus> it is
[10:13] <willvdl> gooood
[10:13] <ogra> they have awesome docs
[10:13] <rodarvus> willvdl, but unfortunately, I was not able to link it to yelp :/
[10:13] <ogra> moodle is one of the best docced apps i've seen so far
[10:13] <rodarvus> they have great docs, and a dedicated (?) person for that
[10:14] <rodarvus> what they are (unfortunately) lacking is on quality code, regarding security
[10:14] <rodarvus> moodle has had 13 secunia issues in the last two years
[10:14] <rodarvus> two of them are open for moodle 1.6.x
[10:14] <ogra> well, its php ...
[10:14] <ogra> what would you expect
[10:14] <rodarvus> to be sincere, I'm not confident on what will be the response of pitti to our MIR
[10:15] <rodarvus> ogra, indeed, it resembles mediawiki a lot, on this regard
[10:15] <ogra> we will urely get restrictions
[10:15] <highvoltage> ogra: I hear the main ubuntu.com site is going to be driven by php soon
[10:15] <ogra> like i did for pulseaudio
[10:15] <willvdl> drupal, yeah
[10:15] <rodarvus> ogra, indeed, which takes me to the question you asked me on email, this morning (regarding how I dropped wwwconfig-common)
[10:15] <ogra> its not allowed into -desktop
[10:15] <ogra> but its allowed into main, so i can use it in ltsp
[10:16] <rodarvus> I basically reimplemented all the scripts manually, based on what they were doing from inside wwwconfig-common
[10:16] <ogra> rodarvus, i'd still like to see that scripts :)
[10:16] <rodarvus> but parts of the scripts (the parts related to postgresql) are changing for 1.7
[10:16] <rodarvus> ogra, sure
[10:16] <rodarvus> nothing out of extraordinary, to be honest
[10:16] <ogra> yes, please focus on 1.7 ... i will try to get a FF exception if one is needed
[10:17] <pips1> rodarvus: The new roles feature in 1.7.1 has caused our moodle admin quite a big headache. he upgraded from 1.6.4 and ended up with automatic course subscriptions of students that weren't supposed to be there... I think that problem still persists in moodle upstream :-/
[10:17] <rodarvus> ogra, I *really* don't think it will be needed
[10:17] <ogra> rodarvus, worst case ... you never know
[10:17] <rodarvus> (unless we have huge problems, which I haven't had yet)
[10:17] <rodarvus> right
[10:17] <willvdl> "worst case ... you never know" ... lol
[10:18] <rodarvus> pips1, right. this is one of my worries (and the reason why it is not a trivial orig.tar.gz upgrade)
[10:18] <rodarvus> there isn't really much we can do, apart from either:
[10:18] <rodarvus> 1. having a separate package for moodle 1.6 and 1.7
[10:18] <rodarvus> or
[10:18] <rodarvus> 2. ignoring upgrade users (which I don't think will happen :P )
[10:18] <ogra> 1. is fine with me
[10:18] <ogra> we divert from debian anyway
[10:19] <rodarvus> nice
[10:19] <willvdl> seeing as tis is the first time we package moodle with our release, can we not work around that with good docs?
[10:19] <ajmitch> rodarvus: did you not consider using dbconfig-common?
[10:19] <rodarvus> that is on my plans too, if we find out upstream is not supporting database schema updates properly
[10:19] <ogra> so people wanting to use 1.6 can get the debian upgrades as long as they fix 1.6
[10:19] <rodarvus> ajmitch, no, I didn't, to be sincere
[10:19] <ajmitch> ok, that's been promoted as a replacement for wwwconfig-common
[10:19] <ajmitch> afaik
[10:20] <ajmitch> sorry to tell you about it after the work has been done :)
[10:20] <rodarvus> nice!
[10:21] <rodarvus> (its less useful for 1.7, if we don't support upgrades from 1.6, but nice, still :) )
[10:22] <rodarvus> anyhow, this is my tech update for moodle, unless someone has comments or questions
[10:22] <ogra> sounds great !
[10:22] <pips1> rodarvus: will moodle run on the edubuntu server by default?
[10:23] <rodarvus> RichEd can probably give more details on this regard, I think (from his conversations with upstream)
[10:23] <ogra> thats the plan
[10:24] <ogra> edubuntu will be a fully fledged setup with all server apps we promote ...
[10:24] <ogra> so its easy to make derivatives by switching off parts
[10:24] <cbx33> :)
[10:24] <ogra> edubuntu itself sould always have all features we put effort in :)
[10:24] <ajmitch> rodarvus: I'm just filing a sync request for dbconfig-common now to get the latest, 1.8.30 has some useful fixes :)
[10:24] <willvdl> so moodle goes on server install but not workstation install right?
[10:24] <ogra> to show off with integration ;)
[10:25] <ogra> right
[10:25] <rodarvus> willvdl, yes, no reason to have it on workstataion installs
[10:26] <ogra> it wont be on the desktop CD and not in wrokstation installs ...
[10:26] <ogra> only on the first server CD
[10:26] <willvdl> did I miss TCM BTW?
[10:26] <ogra> with a default config
[10:26] <highvoltage> willvdl: try channel 7
[10:26] <pips1> has there been any thinking about integrating user administration of edubuntu and moodle? or is that feisty+5 ? :)
[10:27] <rodarvus> one thing I talked briefly with Burgwork and others is about a (theoric) tool for extra configuration of moodle
[10:27] <rodarvus> would be nice for us to collaborate with upstream on this regard
[10:27] <ogra> willvdl, 09:07	ogra	student-control-panel-upgrade: well, see petes blog
[10:27] <Burgwork> pips1: for that you would need an ldap plugin for moodle
[10:27] <ajmitch> Burgwork: there's probably one floating around
[10:27] <rodarvus> there are various little configurations and tweaks on moodle which could benefit from that
[10:27] <ogra> pips1, afaik there are ldap integartion bits for moodle ...
[10:27] <ajmitch> Burgwork: google shows me docs for it :)
[10:28] <ogra> that would be a good feisty+1 target ;)
[10:28] <willvdl> ogra, thanks
[10:28] <Burgwork> ajmitch: right, figured it would be likely
[10:28] <Burgwork> rodarvus: see the first run config stuff of wildfire (the jabber server)
[10:28] <Burgwork> it is quite slick
[10:28] <ajmitch> ogra: could you tell me later (after meeting I guess) just what you need for pam_mount config for network auth?
[10:29] <rodarvus> Burgwork, will do, thanks!
[10:29] <rodarvus> but imho, these configs are not stuff for a "first run", but instead, configurations which can be enabled/tweaked by administrators wanting advanced features
[10:30] <ogra> ajmitch, i'm not sure i need anything yet ... that will depend if i do samba integration now or in feisty+1
[10:30] <Burgwork> actually, "do you want user stuff stored in moodle or ldap" is a first run question
[10:30] <ogra> with nfs mounts there shouldnt be any modifications necessary
[10:30] <ajmitch> ogra: assuming you need it now, I want to be prepared
[10:30] <ajmitch> ok
[10:30] <pips1> Burgwork: good point
[10:31] <ogra> anyway, lets not get the tech stuff to big ... reports are done
[10:32] <pips1> :-)
[10:32] <pips1> can't wait to lay my hands on feisty
[10:32] <ogra> pips1, lets see if we are aces *on time*
[10:33] <pips1> heh
[10:33] <Burgwork> indeed
[10:33] <ogra> thats thew more worring bit atm
[10:33] <ogra> feature freeze is near
[10:33] <pips1> RichEd: ping?
[10:34] <pips1> oh oh, seems all that tech talk sent someone to sleep alright ;-)
[10:34] <ogra> what did you covere apart from artwork while i tried to get back into my system ?
[10:34] <ogra> *cover
[10:35] <willvdl> RichEd has a bad lag. Shall we move to docs?
[10:35] <willvdl> just phoned me
[10:35] <pips1> nothing, apart from nixternal piping in that he makes a promise to work on docs this weekend
[10:35] <ogra> feel free, i'm done
[10:36] <pips1> willvdl: ?
[10:36] <willvdl> rodarvus, about moodle docs
[10:36] <willvdl> how will it integrate at the mo
[10:37] <willvdl> if not in yelp
[10:37] <rodarvus> well, not with yelp, unfortunately. I tried to hack a script to merge moodle docs into yelp xml, but failed miserably
[10:37] <ogra> willvdl, they are contained in moodle
[10:37] <rodarvus> apart from that, they are html files
[10:37] <rodarvus> contained in moodle, as ogra said
[10:37] <willvdl> context help in moodle
[10:37] <ogra> afaik if you install them they show up as a module
[10:37] <froud> rodarvus: what is src for moodle docs?
[10:37] <willvdl> OK, so we don't have to consider anything special for it on or off-line?
[10:37] <ogra> froud, moodle upstream
[10:37] <froud> wiki
[10:38] <froud> moin
[10:39] <willvdl> any thoughts on an install doc? vs having it in handbook?
[10:39] <rodarvus> froud, basic html
[10:39] <rodarvus> created by moodle upstream
[10:39] <rodarvus> not sure if they use something else to create it
[10:40] <froud> rodarvus: isn't there a round trip script from wiki to db and back in ubuntu-doc
[10:40] <rodarvus> (might be a good idea to talk with them on the subject)
[10:40] <froud> rodarvus: html 2 db is a hard one
[10:40] <RichEd_> hi guys - sorry other machine is hanging on me
[10:41] <rodarvus> froud, it *might* be, but I think it is created specifically for use inside moodle, and not for a common wiki
[10:42] <rodarvus> (hmm, no - mediawiki with heavy plugin usage)
[10:42] <pips1> hold on, aren't you guys talking about two different things? there is a documentation that comes as a moodle module (static html), and there is a work-in-progress online documentation wiki, right?
[10:42] <froud> rodarvus: http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/Html2DocBook
[10:42] <froud> It's not 100% fire and forget though
[10:43] <rodarvus> pips1, this is right
[10:43] <pips1> are you now talking about packaging up the work-in-progress wiki doc?
[10:44] <pips1> froud: ? :)
[10:44] <froud> pips1: I think we speaking on both
[10:44] <froud> 1. module
[10:44] <rodarvus> I'm saying that the static docs are positively not wiki, but I'm not sure if they are generated from a mediawiki or such, by the moodle documentation person
[10:44] <froud> 2. wiki
[10:45] <cbx33> sorry just popping in on docs....
[10:45] <rodarvus> (*and* that I will talk with him to get more info on that)
[10:45] <willvdl> cbx33, are TCM docs a load of work?
[10:45] <pips1> right, oki
[10:45] <cbx33> willvdl, not really
[10:45] <froud> rodarvus: let me know if I can help in some nice way
[10:45] <cbx33> and most of it will be written for the edubuntu chapter in the ubuntu book anyway
[10:46] <cbx33> so I can just hack it up a bit
[10:46] <willvdl> cnx33, will you have yelp integration?
[10:46] <cbx33> well I 'll rewrite/hack up...not sure if my editor will like me just copying the text from the book
[10:46] <froud> rodarvus: as I recollect, yelp does read HTML, no?
[10:46] <ogra> i guess you need one screenshot per fuction and one explanatory sentence
[10:47] <cbx33> ogra, if you can just check through that doc and make changes where necessary that'll be a great help
[10:47] <ogra> that shoud be enouhg
[10:47] <cbx33> ogra, exactly
[10:47] <cbx33> infact the handbook already has a lot
[10:47] <cbx33> and all the screenshots were done
[10:47] <cbx33> got to dash now
[10:47] <cbx33> see y'all later
[10:47] <cbx33> thanks ogra
[10:47] <RichEd_> bye cbx33
[10:47] <willvdl> cbx33, ciao
[10:47] <RichEd_> thanks
[10:47] <ajmitch> bye cbx33
[10:47] <ogra> ciao cbx33
[10:47] <cbx33> bye ajmitch RichEd willvdl ogra
[10:48] <ogra> think abou tthat we need to update screenshts with the final artwork
[10:48] <cbx33> ye
[10:48] <cbx33> s
[10:48] <cbx33> ogra, screenshots are not done for the book yet
[10:48] <ogra> ah, ok
[10:48] <cbx33> and most of the tcm/scp are done of tiny potions which don't change much
[10:48] <willvdl> maybe even a screencast? :)
[10:48] <cbx33> could do
[10:49] <popey> \o/ screencasts
[10:49] <popey> hi cbx33
[10:49] <rodarvus> froud, it reads xml
[10:49] <froud> rodarvus: yes, but also HTML
[10:49] <rodarvus> but anyhow, nice - help is always appreciated :)
[10:49] <willvdl> froud, I don't think it does read html
[10:49] <willvdl> not like khelp
[10:50] <froud> willvdl: hmmm then they took support for it out
[10:50] <rodarvus> it expects XML, using the specific DTD used by the gnome documentation, afaik
[10:50] <AliasVegas> bye guys!
[10:50] <willvdl> AliasVegas, ciao
[10:50] <froud> shame getting moodle docs in would have been simple scrollkeeper touch if yelp still supported it
[10:50] <froud> will try yelp an html page please I am on kde
[10:51] <froud> willvdl: can you try yelp an html page please I am on kde
[10:51] <cbx33> bye AliasVegas
[10:51] <willvdl> froud looking
[10:51] <pips1> bye AliasVegas
[10:51] <froud> willvdl: try that nepad eschools page you built today
[10:52] <willvdl> trying to point yelp to a url...
[10:52] <froud> try page on disk
[10:52] <willvdl> built that on kde :)
[10:53] <froud> it will also build on gnome
[10:53] <rodarvus> froud, willvdl: "Yelp serves as a DocBook viewer, a man page viewer, and an info page viewer. This page serves as a development workspace for Yelp and gnome-doc-utils. For the content that goes into Yelp, see the GNOME DocumentationProject."
[10:53] <willvdl> it does read html
[10:53] <rodarvus> http://live.gnome.org/Yelp
[10:53] <willvdl> just did drag and drop of html file into it
[10:53] <froud> willvdl: thx
[10:53] <froud> rodarvus: yes that is what they say, but reality is not the same
[10:54] <pips1> heh
[10:54] <froud> rodarvus: hence you can take moodle html and package it
[10:54] <froud> then just update scrollkeeper
[10:54] <willvdl> simple omf pointer right?
[10:55] <froud> willvdl: yes
[10:55] <froud> this could save many hours
[10:55] <willvdl> anyhoo
[10:55] <rodarvus> you mean scrollkeeper would be able to index an html file?
[10:55] <rodarvus> that would be great news
[10:55] <froud> but may create issues for l18n
[10:55] <willvdl> maybe not index it
[10:55] <willvdl> sorry, ignore me
[10:55] <rodarvus> well, if not index it, I don't see the point of opening moodle documentation from inside yelp
[10:55] <rodarvus> (unless I'm missing something else)
[10:56] <rodarvus> in this case, yelp would be a simple html browser
[10:56] <willvdl> unless linked from the front page...
[10:57] <froud> rodarvus: scrollkeeper does no index it just keeps track of docs when they are registered with it
[10:57] <froud> rodarvus: yelp will search the html though, I think I recollect that
[10:57] <rodarvus> and yelp is far from good at parsing generic html - it has a very weak html parser
[10:58] <froud> rodarvus: choose your poison, round trip or tweak :-)
[10:58] <willvdl> well lets see if it does work, otherwise a context system within moodle is good enough?
[10:58] <rodarvus> froud, what I mean is, imho, the real reason to use yelp as a moodle help viewer would be to have the help contents properly indexed and linked
[10:58] <rodarvus> froud, heh
[10:58] <willvdl> rodarvus, agree
[10:59] <froud> is there a use case for this? sorry I am missing info
[10:59] <rodarvus> otherwise, it just makes more sense to browse the documentation from inside moodle - since moodle will be running on firefox or similar most (all?) of the time
[10:59] <froud> hence my question on the use case
[11:00] <froud> effort vs reward
[11:00] <willvdl> let's take this offline?
[11:00] <froud> np
[11:00] <rodarvus> agreed
[11:00] <ogra> sounds good
[11:00] <ogra> Ubugtu is pushy
 meeting is over, or rather, should be!
[11:01] <willvdl> pips1, you around tomorrow?
[11:01] <pips1> willvdl: yep
[11:01] <cellofellow> oops. got messed up on the time. I'm so late.
[11:01] <rodarvus> next would be community?
[11:01] <ogra> anything left ?
[11:02] <willvdl> pips1, cool, just want you to proof something
[11:02] <rodarvus> (RichEd I guess, but his connection is laggy)
[11:02] <maxamillion> well, its two minutes past ... i think we can wait a couple more for others to show up for the Xubuntu meeting
[11:02] <ogra> well, seems there is a xubuntu meeting starting now, we're over time
[11:02] <RichEd_> ogra: not from my side ... will do the conference sttuff next weeek
[11:02] <RichEd_> thanks all
[11:02] <rodarvus> thanks guys
[11:02] <ogra> thanks all
[11:02] <pips1> thanks
[11:02] <willvdl> thansk
[11:03] <RichEd_> pips1: will chat with you tomorrow
[11:03] <pips1> ok
[11:03] <pips1> time?
[11:03] <RichEd_> same time
[11:03] <pips1> morning? afternoon?
[11:03] <pips1> ah
[11:03] <pips1> 4 pm UTC
[11:03] <RichEd_> yep.
[11:03] <Jester45> hello
[11:03] <pips1> willvdl: what about you?
[11:03] <pips1> morning? afternoon?
[11:04] <willvdl> #edubuntu then quick?
[11:04] <pips1> ok
[11:04] <willvdl> cool. ciao all
[11:04] <maxamillion> Everyone here for Xubuntu meeting?
[11:04] <Jester45> i am
[11:04] <philth> aye!
[11:05] <vidd_laptop> yes
[11:05] <cellofellow> I guess. :P
[11:05] <vidd_laptop> if they are not, they can stay anyway
[11:06] <maxamillion> ok .... current time on my irssi window says 2206UTC so I guess we shall begin
[11:06] <vidd_laptop> what is first on the meeting agenda?
[11:06] <maxamillion> Cody was not able to make the meeting today so he asked me to attempt to provide some direction and touch on a few key points that need to be discussed
[11:07] <maxamillion> first item up is Documentation efforts and their current state of organization
[11:07] <maxamillion> Maximilian1st: welcome
[11:07] <cellofellow> occasional gobby sessions aren't exactly organized.
[11:07] <Maximilian1st> Hi max
[11:07] <maxamillion> for the sake of Maximilian1st ....
[11:07] <Maximilian1st> thanks
[11:07] <maxamillion> first item up is Documentation efforts and their current state of organization
[11:07] <Maximilian1st> :-)
[11:08] <vidd_laptop> who is "the man" as far as documentation?
[11:08] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: that i don't know ....
[11:08] <maxamillion> but here is a wiki break down of documentation as it stands ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation/Wiki?highlight=%28xubuntu%29
[11:10] <maxamillion> i think we should find a more organized way for contributors to "sign up" for sections they would like to work on and that way showing other users what parts of the official documentation are already being worked on (also, if you are to work on a section that someone else is working on please be in contact with them so we aren't doing work over again)
[11:10] <maxamillion> thoughts, questions, comments?
[11:11] <vidd_laptop> a lot, anyway'
[11:12] <vidd_laptop> to the point thaT some instructions say to use "gedit"
[11:12] <vidd_laptop> are we going to have a complete and seperate section of documentation...like kubuntu does?
[11:13] <maxamillion> it is, but there are alot of Xubuntu specifics that go into our documentation that aren't a part of theirs such as network configuration, basic UI customization, etc. ... the differences have to do with the xfce DE and the applications Xubuntu uses compared to ubuntu
[11:14] <maxamillion> yes, we are ... just like we did with dapper (apparently it got skipped because lack of man power for docs... a problem we don't want to have happen again)
[11:15] <maxamillion> ok, for sake of momentum can we agree to find a way to implement a structured wiki sign up for documentation sections?
[11:16] <vidd_laptop> agreed
[11:17] <maxamillion> next order of business is Artwork ... there is deadline 1 coming up for artwork, which i believe JMak is in charge of, but it doesn't appear that he is here so I think I will email him about it later
[11:17] <maxamillion> moving along is Herd 3 Testing and the new testing procedure https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ReportingResults
[11:19] <maxamillion> Again, just as we had with the Herd2 testing I think we will have a sign up on the wiki for where users can sign up for what they would like to participate with but I think all results should be submitted via the requested procedure found the wiki link i just posted about the new testing
[11:19] <Jester45> time for release?
[11:20] <maxamillion> Jester45: very good question ... sadly I lack the answer, but I'm pretty sure it is coming up soon ... it will be announced in #xubuntu, one the -devel and -users mailing lists, on xubuntu.org in the news feed section, and on ubuntuforums.org when it does happen
[11:21] <vidd_laptop> when are we going to acually see the new default icon sets and themes?
[11:21] <maxamillion> I will speak with Cody tonight and see if we can get a wiki setup similar to the one for Herd2 but compensate for the new testing style
[11:22] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: i am under the impression that is what the artwork deadline is about, so i am personally hoping for herd3 image to have them
[11:22] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: that question also kinda ties into the next order of business ...
[11:22] <maxamillion>     *
[11:23] <maxamillion>       How can we improve the default Xubuntu settings (ie. panel setup, applet setup, etc.)? How can we learn from other Xfce4 based distros to improve our default settings/setup?
[11:23] <maxamillion> thoughts, questions, comments?
[11:24] <vidd_laptop> i think we should go to the "one taskbar" setup, and incluse a menu bar similar to dapper, as opposed to edgy
[11:24] <maxamillion> this is where community input is most needed in my opinion, because its the community that is going to use it daily and endorse it personally, so why not make it what you want? (or atleast as close to what _you_ want as long as the group can come to a neutral agreement)
[11:24] <Jester45> i think it should stay the same
[11:25] <Jester45> one thing i would really like is a drag/drop menu
[11:25] <maxamillion> i think it should stay the way it is too ... alot of what people enjoy about the current setup is its uniformity with Ubuntu and with the general look of Gnome, which i think is a positive thing
[11:25] <Maximilian1st> As a simple user I use a single panel centered on the bottom. If that can help you out a bit.
[11:25] <Jester45> so you can drag the links around to your best use
[11:25] <vidd_laptop> we should reinstate the terminal, file manager and "run" on the menu
[11:26] <maxamillion> Jester45: don't quote me on this, but i think you might be able to do that in Xfce4.4-stable which is in feisty
[11:26] <Jester45> maxamillion: then no need to add that:)
[11:26] <Jester45> Maximilian1st: i think there should still be a top bar to hold the menu and firefox
[11:27] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: yes, i agree ... there is actually also talk about writing a panel plugin that creates links to "Places" just like the Gnome second menu does ... so we will kinda be faking a second menu (i don't know if it will happen, but it was discussed)
[11:28] <Jester45> maxamillion: links as in internet site link?
[11:28] <Jester45> or folder links
[11:29] <maxamillion> Jester45: agreed .... I think we will be sticking with the current panel layout for uniformity, because if we can get our defaul installation to resemble Ubuntu almost "to the T" then I think more Ubuntu users will consider it as an alternative (especially because of its light weight aspect)
[11:29] <Jester45> yes i agree with vidd_laptop
[11:29] <maxamillion> Jester45: folder links ... $HOME, Trash, etc. ... just popular things users tend to want easier access to)
[11:30] <maxamillion> well, like i said ... it's only been talked about, i'm not sure any code has even been drafted for it
[11:30] <vidd_laptop> is there (or will there be) a way to drag and drop menu items to the desktop to create shortcuts?
[11:30] <vidd_laptop> and vise versa?
[11:31] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: that i don't know .. I haven't tested the full functionality of Xfce4.4-stable
[11:31] <Maximilian1st> There won't be before 4.6
[11:31] <Jester45> i dont like the idea of the trash bin menu stuff i dont like the trashbin to begin with
[11:31] <Maximilian1st> You can use the appfinder to do some d&d
[11:32] <maxamillion> interesting tour about Xfce4.4-Stable .... all these features will be in Feisty http://www.xfce.org/about/tour
[11:34] <vidd_laptop> maxamillion, i see in that tour that a2ps is needed for mousepad to print....
[11:34] <maxamillion> that is all that appeared to be on the agenda for the evening, so i guess we could move to an open forum ...
[11:34] <vidd_laptop> we going to have a work around, or will a2ps be included by default?
[11:34] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: it might be, there has always been issued with mousepad being able to print
[11:35] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: not sure, i would have to ask Jani about that
[11:36] <vidd_laptop> any other business?
[11:36] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: nope ... just open forum for any questions, concerns, or comments
[11:37] <vidd_laptop> has a chat program been choosen as default yet?
[11:37] <maxamillion> i believe it is still Gaim
[11:37] <vidd_laptop> gaim is an IM program....
[11:37] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: it does irc
[11:38] <vidd_laptop> ill see you on -offtopic in a few then to discuss that
[11:38] <vidd_laptop> =] 
[11:38] <vidd_laptop> what about an FTP program?
[11:40] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: i am actually working on getting gFTP in feisty, but i don't know if it will happen
[11:41] <vidd_laptop> what is holding it back?
[11:41] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: i keep bringing it up, but i don't know if it will make the cut
[11:41] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: i'm not entirely sure to be honest
[11:42] <vidd_laptop> i think we need to compile a list of "must-have" apps (types-not specific)
[11:42] <vidd_laptop> so we can get some kind of consensus of what kind of apps this distro should have by default
[11:43] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: not a bad idea .... I will look into starting a spec for "required apps" on the wiki and we can pass it along to Jani once we have it fine tuned
[11:43] <vidd_laptop> one other thing....
[11:44] <vidd_laptop> the volume control panel app should be enabled by default.....
[11:44] <vidd_laptop> i see so many questions about volume buttons not working
[11:44] <vidd_laptop> and if the volume control panel app is enabled, they do work
[11:45] <maxamillion> vidd_laptop: good point, another thing that should be brought up in the -devel mailing lists
[11:49] <maxamillion> well .... its 50 after and business seems to have been concluded so I think i will call this meeting to a close, thanks to all those who attended and participated
[11:58] <ron_> hm
[12:01] <Tonio_> hi all !
[12:01] <Hobbsee> IT'S THE KUBUNTU MEETING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[12:01] <claydoh> hello!
[12:01] <Jucato> hi
[12:01] <Hobbsee> YAY, CLAYDOH!
[12:01] <Jucato> hi claydoh
[12:02] <claydoh> I will be here for the whole meeting I think :)
[12:02] <Hobbsee> claydoh: woot :)
[12:02] <Jucato> lol
[12:02] <Riddell> mischivous bunch tonight
[12:02] <Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir!  nice of you to join us :)
[12:03] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i run faster than that
[12:03] <Riddell> agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[12:03] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I don't know how long I'll be hanging around for.  It's midnight here now.
[12:03] <Tonio_> Lure: I'll upload soundkonverter by the end of the meeting
[12:03] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ouch
[12:03] <Riddell> do we have any memberships to start with?
[12:03] <Hobbsee> we do. two
[12:04] <Lure> Tonio_: no hurry
[12:04] <Hobbsee> or 3
[12:04] <Jucato> O.o
[12:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: manchicken and Jucato
[12:04] <Tonio_> manchicken: ping ?
[12:04] <manchicken> w00t?
[12:04] <Jucato> who's the 3rd?
[12:04] <Hobbsee> claydoh's not going for membership today?
[12:04] <claydoh> umm....
[12:04] <claydoh> did I apply?
[12:05] <Tonio_> manchicken: can you shortly introduce yourself and your work past present on kubuntu ?
[12:05] <Hobbsee> claydoh: no.  but you were on hte proposed members list
[12:05] <Riddell> and wiki page and laucchpad page
[12:05] <manchicken> Sure.
[12:05] <manchicken> Howdy, my name is Mike "manchicken" Stemle.  I'm 25 a week from tomorrow, and I've been hacking for quite some time.  I've been hacking for kubuntu for only a short while--since December 9th--and in that short period of time I've managed to get quite a bit done.  I've implemented a tabbed interface for kde-systemsettings, and a couple features in adept including an icon display to indicate packages that are officially
[12:05] <manchicken> supported.
[12:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, that was obvious to me, sorry :)
[12:05] <manchicken> Outside of kubuntu, I've also helped the kopete project with porting SMS to Qt4/KDE4, and an enhancement for meta-contacts.  I've spent quite a bit of time answering and asking questions in #kubuntu as well.  I plan to continue participating in the development efforts of kubuntu and KDE.
[12:05] <manchicken> My wiki is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikeStemleJr
[12:06] <manchicken> Any questions?
[12:06] <Riddell> Chicaco.. met whiprush?
[12:07] <manchicken> The name doesn't ring a bell.  It's possible.  I'm not skilled with that whole "names" thing.
[12:07] <Riddell> manchicken: what brought you to kubuntu?
[12:07] <manchicken> I've met a lot of people.
[12:07] <Hobbsee> didnt whiprush leave ubuntu?  or am i imagining things?
[12:07] <manchicken> I've been a KDE user since (I think it was) 1998.
[12:08] <Riddell> impressive, longer than me :)
[12:08] <manchicken> I used debian back when it was still pretty manual, so I knew debs were rockin.
[12:08] <manchicken> I was a SuSE user, but the political climate turned me from SuSE.
[12:08] <Tonio_> like with a lot of users unfortunatelly...
[12:09] <manchicken> Ubuntu is rather well recognized for free software advocacy, and that's right up my street.
[12:09] <ron_> excuse me, what'S this whole meeting about
[12:09] <Riddell> manchicken: how did you find out about #kubuntu-devel?
[12:09] <allee> did you participate in the former distro you used too, e.g. debian?
[12:09] <Tonio_> ron_: kubuntu development
[12:09] <manchicken> Well, most projects have a -devel.
[12:09] <manchicken> kopete got boring for me because it was one program.
[12:09] <manchicken> I get bored working on such an isolated codebase.
[12:09] <ron_> i see, sorry for the interruption
[12:10] <nixternal> hi hi
[12:10] <manchicken> I'm not the world's greatest hacker, but I do enjoy variety.
[12:10] <nixternal> I was in the wrong channel talking :)
[12:10] <manchicken> heh
[12:10] <Hobbsee> then produce results soon after :)
[12:10] <Lure> manchicken: we need people like you
[12:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: very good point with manchicken is that he came to me asking what he could do for kubuntu
[12:10] <manchicken> So naturally when I saw a neat opportunity to do C++/KDE/Qt hacking, and I just couldn't let that pass.
[12:10] <Riddell> Hobbsee: it's the producing results bit that'
[12:10] <Riddell> that's rare :)
[12:10] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yep!
[12:10] <Tonio_> that happens very often, but the good thing is that he DID it ;)
[12:10] <nixternal> you guys, be careful with manchicken!
[12:11] <manchicken> heh
[12:11] <Riddell> only 68 karma, that will probably go up by tomorrow morning :)
[12:11] <Tonio_> manchicken: do you have ideas that you'd like to implement to adept in the future ? or will you stop with feisty spec implementation ?
[12:11] <manchicken> Well, it's just nice to work with a project that I agree with both technically and for the most part in purpose as well.
[12:11] <nixternal> Riddell: we all got owned by karma bug this week
[12:12] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah, they cut the karma. and i was approaching 2 million, iirc.
[12:12] <manchicken> Riddell: It was 762 or something like that yesterday ;)
[12:12] <nixternal> I went from almost 2 million down to 7k
[12:12] <Hobbsee> or more
[12:12] <manchicken> Tonio_: I'm currently working on changelog support, and I'm considering looking into a Qt/KDE4 port soon.
[12:12] <nixternal> I will tell you this, that karma bug makes me feel like I need to work harder :)
[12:12] <manchicken> Tonio_: I like working in adept, but I would like to try out other things that need doing as well.
[12:12] <Tonio_> manchicken: that's very good to hear :) consider working on the GUI please ^^
[12:13] <Tonio_> so many people complain about the non-friendly UI
[12:13] <Riddell> Tonio_: mornfall is working on a new version with the UI spec we did in paris
[12:13] <manchicken> Tonio_: There are a lot of things that could use work.  It's a great program, I love using it.  Which just makes me even more tickled to work on it.
[12:13] <manchicken> Tonio_: No such thing as perfect software.
[12:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah ? cool ! I thought mornfall stoped with adept...
[12:13] <Riddell> naw, just slowed
[12:13] <manchicken> Tonio_: Naw, he gave me a branch the other day to look at.
[12:14] <Tonio_> okay great
[12:14] <manchicken> I should share that info.
[12:14] <yuriy> good to know he's still working on it
[12:14] <manchicken> Yeah.
[12:14] <Riddell> manchicken get a +1 from me for enthusiasm and several very useful code contributions
[12:14] <manchicken> I still have him review my changes.
[12:14] <manchicken> heh
[12:14] <allee> +1 , read only good things about him.
[12:14] <Tonio_> same for me, +1
[12:14] <Hobbsee> manchicken: +1, but i wanted to ask a questoin first
[12:14] <manchicken> Wow, and nobody made fun of my name.  That was easy ;)
[12:14] <Hobbsee> trying to remember what it was now
[12:15] <Lure> manchicken: congrats!
[12:15] <allee> manchicken: we are tolerant (sometimes)
[12:15] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I can answer questions iffen ya got 'em ^_^
[12:15] <nixternal> congrats manchicken!
[12:15] <Hobbsee> manchicken: do you find that you lack stuff to do, or that the list of specs is enough to find something interesting to work on?
[12:15] <manchicken> Hobbsee: You've certainly answered plenty of mine.
[12:15] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:15] <manchicken> Well, I think my main limiting factor--like many free software hackers--is time.
[12:15] <Hobbsee> of course, yes
[12:15] <manchicken> Marriage, church, work, hacking.
[12:15] <Riddell> so, congrats manchicken, you're a Kubuntu Member
[12:16] <manchicken> In that order ^_^
[12:16] <manchicken> Sweet.
[12:16] <Jucato> wow, church :)
[12:16] <allee> manchicken: congrats
[12:16] <Hobbsee> manchicken: sounds sane
[12:16] <nixternal> ya Jucato, we do that here in Chicago sometimes :)
[12:16] <manchicken> I would like to work on more of the ideas though in the specs, and I do like having them mapped out for me already.
[12:16] <Tonio_> welcome abouard manchicken