[04:07] <coz_> evening all:)
[04:30] <troy_s> greets coz_
[04:31] <coz_> troy_s, hey guy:0 sorry for delay also helping out in another channel :)
[04:32] <troy_s> no problem
[04:32] <troy_s> i am busy here as well
[04:32] <coz_> troy_s, so I see fewer and fewer people comingin here ...dissapointed!
[04:32] <troy_s> not exactly
[04:32] <coz_> troy_s, oh?
[04:32] <troy_s> it has always been rather light
[04:32] <troy_s> irc just isn't a place for many to idle
[04:32] <troy_s> which is unfortunate.
[04:32] <coz_> troy_s, yeah but to day on ly 14 logges on
[04:32] <troy_s> yes
[04:32] <troy_s> it comes and goes
[04:33] <coz_> troy_s, ok last few days seemd rather "slim" in attendance
[04:33] <troy_s> it happens
[04:33] <coz_> oh well i can deal:)
[09:41] <nysosym> hi all
[09:46] <klepas> moin
[09:48] <nysosym> hi klepas :)
[09:48] <nysosym> how are u?
[09:51] <klepas> crap
[09:56] <nysosym> why?
[09:58] <klepas> backpains
[10:17] <nysosym> hi andreasn
[10:18] <andreasn> hi there
[10:19] <nysosym> hi KaiL
[10:20] <andreasn> nysosym: what's up?
[10:21] <nysosym> hmm nothing so far, and u?
[10:22] <andreasn> work, mostly
[10:23] <nysosym> what do u do?
[10:25] <andreasn> some icons for a client
[10:26] <nysosym> nice, for feisty?
[10:28] <andreasn> for a ISV, I'm not sure what system their customers run, maybe it's sled
[10:30] <andreasn> or, well, I think their customers can run whatever system the like, as it's crossplatform
[10:30] <nysosym> ahh ok :)
[10:30] <andreasn> so maybe they run xp or whatever
[10:30] <nysosym> can i see them please? :)
[10:31] <andreasn> not released yet I'm afraid :(
[10:32] <nysosym> no problem :)
[11:06] <poningru> woot it does exist
[11:06] <poningru> elkbuntu!!!
[11:06] <elkbuntu> poningru, wot?
[11:07] <elkbuntu> yeah, i know. im every fricking where
[11:07] <poningru> shadows please: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Herd3
[11:08] <elkbuntu> do you have all the images on your hdd already?
[11:08] <poningru> err not really
[11:08] <elkbuntu> bah. i was hoping for them emailed
[11:08] <poningru> oh I can do that
[11:08] <elkbuntu> less likely for me to ADD off halfway through doig them
[11:09] <elkbuntu> i so need to get myself diagnosed one of these days :-P
[11:09] <poningru> :p
[11:09] <poningru> can I just link them?
[11:09] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Herd3?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Easy_Codec_Installation.png
[11:10] <poningru> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/data/500/thunar1.png
[11:10] <poningru> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/data/500/Screenshot-Ekiga.png
[11:10] <elkbuntu> uh.. email the links
[11:10] <poningru> kk
[11:10] <elkbuntu> irc is the worst for distractions
[11:13] <poningru> sent
[11:13] <poningru> thanks soo much
[11:49] <andreasn> thunar - like nautilus, but sane
[03:50] <klepas> anyone around?
[03:53] <troy_s> klepas?
[03:54] <klepas> hey troy_s
[03:54] <klepas> how's it going?
[03:55] <troy_s> fine thanks
[03:55] <troy_s> little less busy the last week
[03:55] <klepas> have you heard of some of the ideas to put some kick back into an art group?
[03:56] <troy_s> no.
[03:56] <troy_s> if you speak of official work, things might settle down a bit as kwwii is in charge of the wallpaper
[03:56] <klepas> had a good chat to jono at linux.conf.au, Sydney mid January
[03:56] <klepas> talking community work
[03:56] <troy_s> and i believe sabdfl will invite the community to develop the rest.
[03:56] <klepas> that is aimed for universe
[03:56] <troy_s> well that's a snap really
[03:57] <troy_s> very easy for those who are interested
[03:57] <troy_s> we have also been working with dholbach for automated artwork building
[03:57] <troy_s> so that the packages get updated automatically
[03:57] <troy_s> but that is only really relevant for someone who is interested in having a chunk of work in development
[03:58] <klepas> yea
[03:58] <troy_s> not the gnome-look 'poop it out and run' mode.
[03:58] <klepas> well a bunch of us are going to get together and try to do a complete gnome ubuntu desktop themed set
[03:58] <klepas> from wallpapers to splashes for various apps and whatnot :)
[03:58] <klepas> and then package that for universe with dholbachs help hopefully
[03:59] <troy_s> sure
[03:59] <troy_s> that's easy
[03:59] <troy_s> shouldn't be an issue
[03:59] <klepas> didn't consider it to be really :)
[03:59] <troy_s> what is the motif?
[04:00] <klepas> a bunch of us are annoyed at the state of the artwork "team" and want to revive it by producing work in a collaborative fashion
[04:00] <klepas> that's pretty much it i guess
[04:00] <troy_s> uh that's great
[04:01] <troy_s> but what is the motif / thematic?
[04:01] <klepas> as in the theme of the work?
[04:01] <troy_s> yes
[04:02] <klepas> not entirely decided yet :)
[04:02] <klepas> we'll get to it when we start doing some work i guess
[04:02] <klepas> :)
[04:03] <troy_s> what are you going to use as the collaborative anchor?
[04:03] <troy_s> regarding tool
[04:03] <klepas> elaborate?
[04:04] <troy_s> how are you going to accomplish the collaboration?
[04:04] <klepas> it's just a bunch of friendly people communicating via irc and email who are going to get some work done and share the work they do in source files as well
[04:05] <klepas> a bunch of us have webservers we can use to upload stuff too
[04:05] <klepas> to, rather
[04:06] <troy_s> So is it a 'do something to do something' project?
[04:07] <klepas> it's a "we're creative people and are sick of doing stuff solo, so lets combine skills and talents to do some cool shit for ubuntu!"
[04:25] <troy_s> lizardking_: how are you friend?
[04:25] <troy_s> lizardking_: have you pushed anything new to bzr?
[04:26] <lizardking_> troy_s: I'm in study pause :D
[04:26] <troy_s> lizardking_: also, regarding the logo issue, have you considered changing the title to 'orange soda' or something at least as generic (in north american terms) to avoid the copyright issues?
[04:26] <lizardking_> troy_s: I will commit new splash in these days
[04:27] <troy_s> lizardking_: great.  do you have a logo for it yet?
[04:28] <troy_s> might be nice to have an official logo for the look
[04:28] <troy_s> (the rather lovely oransoda logo is out obviously)
[04:29] <lizardking_> troy_s: In artwork-ML they tell me that because the trademak is of an other category (italian commercial drinking ) and mine is for arts and theming, they think that it will be right
[04:29] <lizardking_> troy_s: yes a custom personal logo it will be cool!
[04:29] <troy_s> Herm... I somehow doubt that lizardking_
[04:29] <lizardking_> Now I report the copyright mail
[04:29] <troy_s> not to sound depressing, but my wife is a lawyer
[04:30] <lizardking_> wait
[04:30] <troy_s> it isn't just a copyright when it is a logo
[04:30] <lizardking_> troy_s:  ok ok I will heard you
[04:30] <troy_s> it is also a registered trademark
[04:30] <troy_s> etc
[04:30] <lizardking_> yes It is a registrant copyright
[04:30] <troy_s> and the trademark would _probably_ put you in jeopardy
[04:30] <lizardking_> jeopardy?
[04:30] <troy_s> trouble ;)
[04:31] <troy_s> Namely, they would hold the right to control everything about that brand logo
[04:31] <troy_s> From name, to colours, etc.
[04:31] <troy_s> IIRC
[04:32] <troy_s> So you would be wise to perhaps just avoid it all together and migrate to the more generic "orange soda" -- which would be completely open (as long as you avoid that oransoda logo styling)
[04:32] <lizardking_> troy_s: Mhh I do really not want to goes in trouble!!!
[04:33] <lizardking_> troy_s: this is the mail
[04:33] <lizardking_> For Iacopo Masi, I have done a quick search of oransoda in google-image
[04:33] <lizardking_> and I discovered that Oransoda was an italian trademark. I have some
[04:33] <lizardking_> basic knowledge about the use of a trademark and there is no possiblity
[04:33] <lizardking_> to identify the drink with the theme so you should be able to use that
[04:33] <lizardking_> name. So you should remove the post-it in the synopsis that is the
[04:33] <lizardking_> pattented logo.
[04:35] <troy_s> who wrote that though
[04:35] <troy_s> if they aren't a lawyer, it is nothing more than speculation really.
[04:35] <lizardking_> troy_s: From: Yann Papouin <yann.papouin@wanadoo.fr>
[04:36] <troy_s> the bottom line is either get an authoritative lawyer discussion on ir or avoid it.
[04:36] <troy_s> s/ir/it
[04:36] <lizardking_> troy_s: However if you wife advice me, I will chaned the name early. I do not want to go arrested :D
[04:38] <lizardking_> troy_s: I should change all files of 'oransoda' or just the package name?
[04:43] <troy_s> lizardking_: I'll ask for some free legal advice when she gets home
[04:43] <troy_s> lizardking_: My gut tells me that if it is a registered trademark that you might want to avoid the complexity and simply change it...
[04:43] <troy_s> but again, it is well out of my knowledge sphere.
[04:44] <lizardking_> troy_s: Thank you very much, friend. What Should I do now?
[04:44] <troy_s> No idea.
[04:44] <lizardking_> change the wiki page name, the package name, the files ...etc?
[04:44] <troy_s> lizardking_: My personal thinking would be to avoid registered trademarks.
[04:44] <lizardking_> troy_s: My personal too :D
[04:45] <troy_s> lizardking_: but that is your choice... if you want to keep going with it, then it would require some official lawyer thinking.
[04:45] <lizardking_> troy_s: But it's a big work to rename all occurrencies. I must rename page wiki, package, files, launchpad product. Right?
[04:45] <troy_s> The problem is that brand trademarks are very often guarded and protected by the companies that own them.
[04:46] <lizardking_> troy_s: Yes and I haven't that support
[04:46] <troy_s> lizardking_: Yes it would be, unfortunately.  I don't see much of any other way.
[04:46] <lizardking_> troy_s: Ok So I will create a new page wiki and other rest
[04:46] <troy_s> For example, you can't put the Pepsi logo on anything, in any capacity, that isn't officially endorsed by Pepsi.
[04:46] <lizardking_> right!
[04:46] <lizardking_> you are right
[04:46] <troy_s> The problem lies in the fact that branding in the our current society often distills down to the simple use of a logo (Nike, etc.)
[04:46] <lizardking_> it is possibile to rename page wiki? :D
[04:47] <troy_s> yes
[04:47] <troy_s> Think before you do it though -- you will need to try and figure out where all the cross links come from.
[04:47] <troy_s> Pull down tab renames.
[04:51] <lizardking_> troy_s: So I should wait your wife or now starting to rename all links?
[04:52] <troy_s> Even if you get a lawyer's opinion, you will find another lawyer who could argue it.
[04:52] <troy_s> The problem lies in the fact that there is a _chance_ for issues, and my gut instinct tells me to simply avoid the hassle and avoid it all together.
[04:52] <troy_s> But again, that is _my_ opinion, and not exactly grounded in an extensive knowledge of global trademark law ;)
[04:54] <lizardking_> Mhh ok understand. I m sure to change name
[04:55] <lizardking_> Now It is time to work hard to change all name links,  files , wiki etc.. sobh :8
[04:56] <troy_s> Most importantly are the logo appearances.
[04:56] <lizardking_> troy_s: for example?
[04:57] <lizardking_> This is the central page for the development of the Oransoda theme --> the OrangeSoda
[04:57] <lizardking_> ??'
[04:58] <troy_s> If that is your title...
[04:58] <troy_s> I don't know how many occurances of the OranSoda(TM) logo you have
[05:02] <lizardking_> I have some occurances and the wiki page name
[05:06] <lizardking_> troy_s: damn, http://www.orangesoda.com/ anohter TM
[05:08] <troy_s> it is possible
[05:08] <troy_s> but the reality is that the name "Orange Soda" is pretty generic
[05:08] <troy_s> I would say that your design versus theirs is quite inherently different
[05:09] <lizardking_> So I must pick a less generic name?
[05:09] <troy_s> Ultimately, it is up to you.
[05:09] <troy_s> But I think that whatever name you settle on
[05:09] <troy_s> If you were to say, like Orange Soda
[05:10] <troy_s> I wouldn't worry about the trademark too much as your design is quite different from theirs
[05:10] <troy_s> it only really becomes an issue if you start using official logos
[05:10] <troy_s> etc.
[05:11] <troy_s> But I preface all of that with the reminder that we are 'guessing' on some level, as we are not lawyers ;)
[05:12] <lizardking_> yes right. We are not lawyers
[05:12] <lizardking_> troy_s: OranSun, how does it sounds?
[05:38] <lizardking_> troy_s: Are you there?
[05:38] <troy_s> Yes
[05:39] <lizardking_> troy_s: I just alert Daniel Holbach of renaming the package. Now  I wait his answer and then If YES I work hard to rename it
[05:39] <lizardking_> the main candidates is: OranSun
[05:39] <lizardking_> troy_s: Now I return to study
[05:41] <lizardking_> troy_s:  bye bye. See U soon if meantime they has not put me in jails :D
[05:42] <troy_s> Lol
[05:42] <troy_s> take care lizardking_
[05:42] <lizardking_> troy_s: I will do it after Daniel'answer
[05:42] <lizardking_> bye
[06:10] <lizardking> troy_s: I have some news
[06:12] <lizardking> it seems good news
[06:14] <troy_s> ?
[06:24] <troy_s> damn
[06:24] <troy_s> chroot just hooped my system
[06:24] <troy_s> back in an hour -- whee.
[06:26] <lizardking> troys_s look at this http://www.wipo.int/cgi-mad/guest/ifetch5?ENG+MADRID-FULL.vdb+11+1200595-KEY+256+0+8814+BASICHTML-ENG+7+50+1+25+SEP-0/HITNUM,PN,MAR,,,IMAGE+HOL%2fcampari+
[07:50] <lizardking> Hi
[08:05] <lizardking> troy_s: hi
[08:05] <lizardking> troy_s: i'm leaving
[08:05] <troy_s> Nightmarish reinstall scenario
[08:05] <lizardking> troy_s: after I was telling you
[08:06] <troy_s> What was the good news?
[08:06] <lizardking> I dig the search in WIPO site
[08:06] <lizardking> troy_s: Do you know WIPO?
[08:07] <troy_s> No.
[08:07] <lizardking> troy_s: I must go. I leave you with the news. Wipo is World Intellectual Proprerty oraganization, in the site there is a seargh engines for tradmarks
[08:07] <lizardking> troy_s: I search oransoda
[08:08] <lizardking> and...
[08:08] <troy_s> And it wasn't there
[08:08] <troy_s> But that doesn't mean that a laywer hasn't legally registered the trademark for OranSoda with their respective government legislative process.
[08:08] <lizardking> troy_s: no no is there but
[08:09] <lizardking> troy_s: click here http://www.wipo.int/cgi-mad/guest/ifetch5?ENG+MADRID-FULL.vdb+11+1200595-KEY+256+0+8814+BASICHTML-ENG+7+50+1+25+SEP-0/HITNUM,PN,MAR,,,IMAGE+HOL%2fcampari+
[08:10] <troy_s> My Italian stinks.
[08:10] <lizardking> troy_s: the numer 511 tell the the classification of the registrated trademark. And it is reported in frech things like food, drinks, marmelade, jams, parfums...
[08:10] <troy_s> Although I recognize Ice Cream in there!
[08:10] <lizardking> troy_s: Yeah yeah!
[08:10] <troy_s> Oh yes... it is French sorry
[08:10] <lizardking> troy_s: Campari is italian
[08:11] <lizardking> troy_s: I leave now. i have basketball match :D Hoping to win..
[08:11] <troy_s> Still a scary thought to me.  But again, you are free to do what you wish regarding usage of the name.
[08:11] <troy_s> Bah.  Play hockey.  ;)
[08:11] <lizardking> troy_s: cool
[08:12] <lizardking> troy_s: however I have ask Daniel and Matthew East.. I'm waiting for them
[08:12] <lizardking> bye