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Adri2000when is the freeze ending?12:25
Nafallowhen herd 3 is released12:25
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Adri2000Nafallo: right, ETA was today I believe, delayed?12:26
Nafallooh. right. it must be. hadn't struck me yet :-)12:27
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kroI'm trying to use the netboot images for fiesty located here http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/06:07
kroI start booting the installer, and it craps out with a message about not being able to find the kernel06:08
krothis is after detecting the keyboard.06:09
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orkidi hope you don't mind me asknig in devel, but ubuntu wasn't much insight yet, but why is port 32768 open?07:25
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orkidhmm, i'll try the forums07:27
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pittiGood morning07:49
mneptokarr, pitti 07:57
zakameyo pitti07:58
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pittihey mneptok, good morning!08:43
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rideoutdbus-uuidgen is giving me the following error in feisty, 09:27
rideoutsymbol lookup error: dbus-uuidgen: undefined symbol: dbus_internal_do_not_use_create_uuid09:27
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dholbachgood morning09:29
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pittiheno: good mornign10:09
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pittiheno: it would be nice if the iso test bug summaries could mention a list of test cases10:09
henopitti: ! Thanks for testing with the new tracker How is it working for you?10:10
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pittiheno: takes a bit to get used to, but not bad10:10
cjwatsonkro_afk: we just changed the kernel ABI, so you need to make sure that you have a very current installer10:11
pittiheno: my biggest struggle is actually finding installer bugs I filed ages ago and which I now re-detect10:11
henopitti: would a link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/InstallMethods suffice?10:11
Mithrandirpitti: do you have any idea why sim ftbfs?  It seems to be pkgstrip-tingabob related.10:11
pittiheno: probably, but why not just add it to the summary? I guess you have a script which creates those reports anyway?10:11
pittiMithrandir: will look at it10:11
pittimvo: good mornign10:11
pittimvo: thanks for the nice apport demo on the live system :-P10:12
mvogood morning pitti!10:12
henopitti: Tollef does, yes10:12
Mithrandirpitti: thanks.10:12
henoHm, I think I'll make a wiki page for feedback like this 10:12
henoand then review before Herd 410:12
Mithrandirpitti: sfllaw promised me a text to put in the bug reports.  He has so far failed to do so, but improvements are certainly welcome.10:13
pittiheno: another thing is that it is now pretty hard to see what still needs testing10:13
pittiheno: maybe bughelper can help us with creating a table-like report, similar to the Testing/Current page?10:13
henopitti: my idea for that was to (ab)use the importance setting10:14
pittiheno: I meant 'oh, amd64/alternate still needs OEM tested'10:14
dholbachpitti: we have a format_wiki() function already - I was never sure which format to use, but if anybody wants to hack that, that's cool10:14
henoHigh for still needs testing, Critical for failed (needs fixing), Wishlist for tested plenty already10:14
pittiheno: ah, that's a good first step10:15
pittidholbach: yay :)10:15
henopitti: yes, more important for Beta and onwards, but we should get it working. Perhaps a separate bug for each test case 10:15
pittihmm, did anyone try live/check? it boots straight into the live system for me10:18
cjwatsonheno: once this has all settled down, a post to ubuntu-devel-announce about how developers can process the results would be good10:19
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henocjwatson: yep, and some thoughts on improvements10:19
macdbug #78282 is there someone I can contact as to an ETA>?10:21
UbugtuMalone bug 78282 in vnc4 "vnc4server does not start Desktop environment after security update" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/7828210:21
givreogra: hello. i think i'm ok with the fuse merge. debdiff -> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3808/10:21
pittimacd: it's known and it's veery ugly, will take some time to fix10:21
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macdI was digging through it some, yes its definetly no quick hack.10:22
macdpitti, tyvm btw.10:23
givreogra: i use the udev rules to mount the fuse control filesystem, but i don't unmount it with the rule, because 1. it's impossible (AFAIK). 2. It's done anyway by /etc/init.d/umountfs10:24
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givreogra: what do you think ?10:24
pittimacd: we could do some nasty hacks to put back the original edgy debs into -security, but it would be better to actually track down the toolchain/library regression that caused this mess10:24
cjwatsonwe're not going to downgrade10:25
macdwell since edgy gets a feature feeze soon, I dont think nasty hacks are the best plan of action, and nor do you ;)10:25
cjwatsonmacd: er ... feisty is the one feature-freezing, edgy is released10:25
macdyeah, my mistake.10:25
macd3:30am here.10:26
pitticjwatson: no, re-label the edgy .debs with a higher -security version number, but that's really something I'd try to avoid10:26
cjwatson9:30am doesn't make me any more awake than you, believe me :-/10:26
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mneptokscrew you all ;)10:27
macdwell, not any more awake, but surely more aware, 20 hours in front of a PC tends to take its toll on your minds sharpness10:27
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macdohh, thats a nasty shift.10:28
mneptokin at 2300, out at 0800. your complaints of "it's late!" fall on deaf ears here. :)10:29
mneptok(of course, when i complain that it's late at 1700UTC you can all point and laugh) ;)10:29
macdIf I spent less time in #ubuntu answering questionbs and more time working, well....we all know10:30
macdyes, its 5pm somewhere, right now.10:30
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Kanohi Mithrandir10:34
Kanohi niktaris10:35
Kanois there something wrong with pbuilder now?10:35
Kanoit stops at10:35
KanoI: Configuring console-setup...10:35
KanoI: Configuring ubuntu-minimal...10:35
KanoI: Base system installed successfully.10:35
pittiMithrandir: sim> 'Error: Package: and Architecture: do not alternate in debian/control' -> ah, that's pretty clear then; duplicate Architecture: field or so10:36
henoMithrandir: are you monitoring the 'ISO bug' comments for found bugs and/or should I copy them over to Testing/Current?10:36
Kanois there a tool to create current snapshots of alternative/desktop images?10:37
Kanowould need that...10:37
Kanobtw. openoffice draw lacks a kde menu entry10:39
RiddellKano: hmm, so it does10:42
Riddell"NoDisplay=true"  that'll be why10:43
Kanohi Riddell10:44
Kanodo you know why i cant create a pbuilder environment?10:44
Kanoi deleted the old, need a new...10:45
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Riddell"Base system installed successfully" sounds like a success to me10:45
KanoRiddell: nope, it stops10:47
Kanothats wrong10:47
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Kanoi guess debootstrap is somehow wrong10:55
cjwatsonseems unlikely10:56
seb128do we use wodim instead of cdrecord as Debian do?10:56
cjwatsondebootstrap's hardly changed in ages and it works in lots of other situationsn10:56
cjwatsonseb128: yes10:56
seb128so I need to update nautilus-cd-burner10:56
Mithrandirpitti: it is?  I can't find it.10:56
seb128it tries calling readcd by example10:56
cjwatsonI thought we had a wrapper scripts10:56
Mithrandirheno: just about to investigate10:56
Kanowell not the debootstrap package itself, but maybe some main tools10:56
seb128cjwatson: I've no readcd on my feisty apparently10:57
seb128that has been fixed with 9:1.1.1-1 to Debian10:59
pittiseb128: hi11:00
seb128hey pitti11:00
pittiseb128: new installs currently have both n-m and the gnome network monitor in the panel11:00
pittiseb128: against what shall I file that bug?11:01
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seb128pitti: you want the network monitor applet to be dropped probably?11:01
seb128pitti: gnome-panel11:01
Kanoit is debootstrap that hangs, just tested11:01
pittiseb128: right11:01
pittiseb128: ok, will do11:01
Kanodebootstrap feisty feisty-test http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu11:02
Kanotry yourself11:02
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Kanoyou might need to do11:13
Kanops aux |grep deboot|awk '{print $2}'|xargs -r kill -911:13
Kanoumount feisty-test/proc feisty-test/sys11:14
Kanoin case it locks for you too...11:14
cjwatsonI maintain debootstrap in Ubuntu insofar as anyone does; I know how to clean up after it :-)11:14
cjwatsonKano: works fine for me11:15
cjwatsonKano: I suspect your system is misconfigured somehow, although I don't know how11:15
_ionkano: pgrep deboot | xargs ...11:15
cjwatsonjeez, pkill11:15
_ionArgh, such a brainfart. :-)11:15
cjwatsonafter the message you mention seeing, debootstrap does: kill old temporary sources.list and set up a new one; save log file; sync; clean up $TARGET/debootstrap11:17
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cjwatsonI suppose sync might hang if your kernel oopsed in the meantime11:17
Kanodoes not matter, it stops11:20
fabbionemorning 11:20
Kanoi will not fix it manually...11:21
Kanoi need it for pbuilder11:21
Kanowell maybe sync is the problem11:25
Kanowill test it later11:25
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Mithrandirpitti: if you could actually verify that installs worked, etc, (in the ubuntu-iso-testing bugs), that'd be good.11:27
pittiMithrandir: oh, ok11:28
pittiMithrandir: I thought 'no news is good news'11:28
Mithrandirwell, true, but I'd like an explicit confirmation so it's not just "pressed submit too early and forgot"11:28
pittiMithrandir: right, will do from now on11:29
KanoMithrandir: can you tell me how to build install/desktop iso snapshots?11:31
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MithrandirKano: use debian-cd11:32
Kanois it for livecds too?11:33
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UbugtuMalone bug 80589 in gnome-app-install "daily live comes with crash report - pre-populated!" [High,Confirmed]  11:33
KanoMithrandir: are you sure it is for feisty? i only see etch entries..11:35
Kanoalso itis from universe11:35
Kanoso what tool do you use11:35
Mithrandirwe use debian-cd.11:35
cjwatsonthe debian-cd in the archive is Debian's, not ours11:36
Kanoand where is yours11:36
Kanobzr something?11:36
cjwatsonhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/cdimage/mainline/ and references in configs/devel having checked that out11:36
cjwatsonit's a pain to set up, though. Don't waste your time on it unless you really really have to11:36
cjwatsonyou need a full local mirror and all sorts of stuff11:36
Kanowhy doent it work with a internet mirror?11:37
cjwatsonI'm not going to attempt to support it; folks using it need to be smart enough to support themselves :-)11:37
cjwatsonbecause it doesn't11:37
cjwatsondeal :)11:37
Kanook, need a new hd first then ;)11:37
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Kanocjwatson: and when i juse fuse to mount an ftp server to local dir?11:39
Kanocurlftpfs can do that11:39
Mithrandirit'd be bloody slow and you need to hardlink stuff, so it still wouldn't work.11:39
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cjwatsondebian-cd *can* use a symlink farm (see its README) but it's not well-tested because everyone using it for serious CD-building installations just has a big disk with a local mirror11:40
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cjwatsonwhich is by far the most efficient option if you're doing it seriously11:41
Mithrandirogra: how are your images?11:41
cjwatsonheno: re braille-support, brltty's bluetooth driver doesn't seem to need a PIN11:42
Kanocjwatson: will keep this in mind. how big is ubuntu main currently?11:42
cjwatsonor indeed know how to accept it11:42
cjwatson^[[Acjwatson@lithium:~$ du -s cdimage/ftp11:43
cjwatson90917604        cdimage/ftp11:43
cjwatsonso 90GB11:43
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Kanohmm but not only feisty i think11:44
cjwatsonsure, but cdimage doesn't bother selecting by release because that's more effort than just rsyncing the lot11:44
cjwatsonI have no idea how big feisty/main is and it isn't entirely trivial to find out11:44
Kanorync all is a bit much...11:44
cjwatsonsum up the Size fields in all the relevant Packages and Sources files11:44
Mithrandiruse debmirror and then du it, but why care?  Disk space is cheap.11:44
TheMusocjwatson: Thats about right. The config file has nothing relating to bluetooth pins in it, only to do with the BlueTooth address.11:45
TheMusoWOuldn't hurt to consult upstream about that, which I'll do now.11:45
KanoMithrandir: do you optimize the desktop isos for speed later?11:45
cjwatsonTheMuso: I'm just attempting the integration now11:46
MithrandirKano: no, that's done earlier.11:46
Kanoso you get a sortlist before11:46
TheMusocjwatson: I have a serial display here, so I can't test bluetooth, but would be happy to test in general.11:46
=== Mithrandir throws a rock at ogra to make him wake up.
henocjwatson: well, if it will work without a PIN that's better I guess11:47
cjwatsonTheMuso: plan is to blat brltty-udeb.sh and the udev rules into the regular brltty package as well, make braille-setup use /lib/brltty/brltty.sh so that it can kill any running brltty if need be, and hook it in from init scripts and the like to be used if you give brltty=ask on the kernel command line11:47
TheMusocjwatson: Sounds good.11:49
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mvoMithrandir: a quick question on ia32-libs-gtk. I fixed a pango problem in it and refreshed them with "BUILD=0 ./fetch-and-build" along the way. is that sufficient? or is there more that needs to be doen before a upload?11:50
Mithrandirmvo: you probably want to build the orig.tar.gz too11:51
cjwatsonheno,TheMuso: instead of a USB port, brltty seems to want the serial number of the display (or empty to autodetect)11:51
cjwatson(just answering a comment in braille-setup11:51
mvoMithrandir: _24_ seems to not have a orig.tar.gz. how do I build the orig.tar.gz for this package?11:52
Mithrandirmvo: with tar and gzip11:52
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cjwatsonI think it's then just /lib/brltty/brltty.sh -b auto -d "bluetooth:$b_address", /lib/brltty/brltty.sh -b "$s_model" -d "serial:ttyS$s_port", /lib/brltty/brltty.sh -b "$u_model" -d "usb:$u_serial" as appropriate11:53
henocjwatson: so for USB it shouldn't need any port info, but for a serial display conected to a USB-Serial dongle it would need the Serial port # 11:53
cjwatsonactually I think I'll add -E to that11:54
cjwatsonheno: brltty(1) doesn't document any way to do that though?11:54
cjwatsonheno: oh, are we talking about /dev/ttyUSB$n here?11:55
henocjwatson: if that is serial via USB, then yes11:55
cjwatsonaha, right11:56
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cjwatsonI'll make it clearer in braille-setup, then, and say that other USB devices will be autodetected11:56
henoright, thanks11:56
henocjwatson: Dave Mielke and I are actually working on a better version where we clarify some of these things11:57
cjwatsonheno: heh, I've already forked the script ;)11:57
henook, go with that then :)11:58
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cjwatsonperhaps I can upload what I've got and you guys can tweak11:58
henocjwatson: sounds great11:58
TheMusoSo this script will be run if the accessibility script in casper finds anything on the command line right?11:58
cjwatsonbrltty=ask specifically11:59
TheMusoyeah I know.11:59
cjwatsonI wasn't planning to do it via casper, actually11:59
TheMusoah ok11:59
cjwatsonreason is that it needs to interact with the user via read(1), and by the time casper runs usplash is up11:59
cjwatsonso instead, I suggest doing it in the initramfs, right after console configuration11:59
Mithrandircjwatson: why does it need read(1) and can't use the usplash input infrastructure?11:59
cjwatsonwell, casper's in the initramfs too, but earlier in the initramfs12:00
Mithrandirhm, because the user can't see, maybe?12:00
cjwatsonI think in this case it's best for it to be as simple as possible12:00
bhalecan anyone tell me why the ubuntumembers team in launchpad has marked me as 'expired'? i am still somewhat active since the very begining12:00
TheMusoMithrandir: According to heno, this is for deaf blind people who may have assistance.12:00
TheMuso...I think12:00
cjwatsonif somebody wants to move it into usplash, fine, but we can do it before usplash starts12:00
cjwatsonbhale: all memberships are for a term of two years - the intent is to renew explicitly if the person's active12:01
bhalecjwatson: i see, i understood them to lapse only in the event of inactivity. thanks12:02
cjwatsonbhale: unfortunately I'm not sure what the renewal process is because I've sort of been phasing out of the CC - I can renew it for a week to cover the next CC meeting though12:02
bhalecjwatson: that would be cool, iirc mail is linked to that group12:02
cjwatsonI don't know if Mark wants to do explicit turn-up-to-meetings-type renewals or what12:02
bhalealright, ill put myself on an agenda12:03
bhalehm, the topic of expiring members in general is the topic of the next CC12:04
cjwatsonyes, preferably the CC should handle this when members are about to expire rather than waiting until they do12:04
cjwatsonheno: I'm renaming it to brltty-setup to make it clearer what package it belongs to12:06
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Kanowould it be possible to get latest ati (8.33.6 currently), latest nvidia 9746 and 9631 and 7184 in the restriced package? btw. nvidia-legacy driver does not need any udev hack anymore12:11
Kano3 nvidia drivers would be best...12:11
MithrandirI doubt we'll do three drivers.12:11
bhaleit takes 3 drivers to support all hardware12:12
Kanobut they are needed if you want to support full range12:12
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pittihi tkamppeter 12:12
Kanoi can easyly detect and switch between em,but currently i would have to package em manually or download the installers12:13
Kanoi have a working script but would like to seemlessly integrate12:13
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Kanopc linux os has 3 packages... nvida-71xx, -96xx , -97xx 12:14
Kanojust for example for a better naming scheme12:14
Kanobtw. do you patch the avm drivers to add support for the compatible hardware?12:16
Kanoone driver can be patched12:16
Kano(just differnt usb id needed)12:16
tkamppeterpitti, hi12:17
tkamppeterpitti, did you upload the fixed m2300w yesterday? Or did you wait because of the Herd 3 freeze?12:18
Kanobasically you copy the fxusb source and apply that patch12:19
Kanothen you get a fxusb_cz too... that works12:20
pittitkamppeter: I uploaded it, but it's stuck in unapproved due to the freeze12:21
Kanomv fxusb_cz/lib/fxusb-lib.o fxusb_cz/lib/fxusb_cz-lib.o12:22
Kanodont forget to rename the precompiled part for that change...12:22
janimoMithrandir: hi, can you roll xubuntu images when you have soem time? thanks12:25
Mithrandirjanimo: "roll out" meaning publish or create or what?12:26
janimoMithrandir: roll, like whatever it takes to have iso-s on cdimage :)12:26
janimolast ones are for Jan 30th12:26
Mithrandirjanimo: alternate images being created, livefs creating too running.12:27
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Kanowhat the preferred way to disable that bootsplash thing after boot?12:32
Kanoi really dislikethat i see nothing when i stop kdm12:32
SeveasKano, #ubuntu for support12:34
bhaleSeveas: is the next CC scheduled? the wiki page says no12:35
Seveasbhale, I just poked the CC about it for the third time12:36
KanoRiddell: there is even twice NoDisplay=true in /usr/share/applications/ooo-math.desktop ...12:36
Riddelldoko: I presume NoDisplay in ooo-maths and ooo-draw are deliberate?12:39
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KanoRiddell: how about: Categories=Application;Office;VectorGraphics12:41
dokoRiddell: was decided when we cleaned up the menu structure for dapper12:43
Kanostupid decision...12:44
cjwatsonTheMuso: hmm, brltty doesn't *strictly* need to be started in the initramfs, does it? only configure12:44
Riddellmakes sense, I don't see much need to run ooo maths as a separate application12:44
TheMusocjwatson: No. It has an init script.12:44
Kanomath ok, but graphics12:44
Riddellalthough it's a bug not to include a ; at the end of the Categories list12:44
carlospitti: btw, I just disabled language pack exports to do another Feisty opening test12:44
cjwatsonTheMuso: starting persistent processes in the initramfs is a pain, so if possible I'd like to just configure it and then have the init script start it up12:45
cjwatsonok, great12:45
carlospitti: so we will not get daily updates this weekend12:45
pitticarlos: ok for me; I'm just uploading new dapper packs, btw12:45
pitticarlos: that's fine, cronjobs are off anyway12:45
carlosbase ones?12:45
henocjwatson: right, Dave wanted to just add some entries at the bottom of /etc/brltty.conf12:45
TheMusocjwatson: Howd you plan to do that?12:45
pitticarlos: right, the ones from Monday12:45
TheMusoAs in, let the init script know what we want12:45
cjwatsonTheMuso: write out /etc/brltty.conf12:45
henocjwatson: and then have ubiquity copy the modified script over12:45
carlosdid you get a confirmation from people complaining about missing translations, that those packages fixes their issue?12:45
cjwatsonit'll take two initramfs hooks because usplash starts before the root filesystem is mounted, but whatever12:46
TheMusoWHich means we can get the casper ubiquity stuff to copy it over at install time.12:46
dokoKano: ranting doesn't help; if you want to change it, write a new menu spec for feisty+112:46
cjwatsonor even just have brltty install a ubiquity hook, maybe12:46
TheMusoSounds good.12:46
cjwatsonI'm all for splitting this stuff out into separate packages to make it easier to mix and match12:46
Mithrandirhttp://err.no/herd-3.txt proofreading needed.12:47
cjwatsonThe requested URL /herd-3.txt was not found on this server.12:48
cjwatsonhah, I guessed right12:48
tkamppeterpitti, thanks for the info, thought already about a thing like this12:48
TheMusoheno: DO you think this is a good time to discuss transitioning to espeak and getting things set for using espeak's different voices for languages?12:48
cjwatsonMithrandir: please add the hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false workaround for the install CD han12:48
cjwatsonMithrandir: also please mention that if the new partitioner doesn't work then you can fall back to the old one by running 'ubiquity --old-partitioner' from a terminal12:49
henoTheMuso: we should look at the patches Gilles made. Those should take care of it12:50
Mithrandircjwatson: looks good?12:50
TheMusoheno: What patches?12:50
henoHave all his patches to gnome-speech and the newest espeak made it into the repos?12:50
TheMusohang on, going to -accessibility12:51
janimoMithrandir: is it worth mentioning that gnome-power-manager does not start by default in herd3?12:51
Mithrandirjanimo: it does not?12:52
janimoMithrandir: it got ist autostart file dropped in a recent upload12:52
janimoby accident12:52
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Mithrandirwhat's the easiest way to start it by hand?12:53
janimognome-power-manager from the console I guess12:53
Mithrandirjanimo: looks good now?12:55
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janimoMithrandir: yes12:55
janimoit'd be good if someone else who tested recent livecds confirmed this though12:56
janimoScott noticed it yesterday12:56
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ograMithrandir, sorry, sorry, sorry .... edubuntu is ready indeed01:00
cjwatsonMithrandir: no, not gksudo01:00
pittijanimo: confirmed; is there a bug about it already?01:00
cjwatsonMithrandir: just 'ubiquity --old-partitioner'. It raises privileges in the appropriate way itself01:00
Mithrandircjwatson: oh, ok01:00
DHGEhi! anyone to confirm that the texlive/tetex dependencies are fixed like in debian? i am having problems apt-getting packages with texlive installed01:00
Mithrandircjwatson: ok now?01:00
cjwatsonMithrandir: "The primary focus ... have been" -> has been01:00
janimopitti yes there;s ab ug, ogra knows about it01:01
cjwatsonMithrandir: rest looks fine01:01
Mithrandircjwatson: I think I can blame Hobbsee for that, she proofread it last time.01:01
Mithrandircjwatson: thanks a lot.01:01
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Mithrandirjanimo: alternate xubuntu ready.01:02
pittiMithrandir: ah, heh, I found the reason for the sim FTBFS; debian/rules defines a variable that pkg-create-dbgsym expects to be empty initially01:03
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Mithrandirpitti: *cough*. :-P01:03
pittiMithrandir: will fix p-c-d and ask for a give-back after it reaches the archives next wek01:03
ograjanimo, the gpm doesnt start bug ? 01:03
janimoogra: yes01:04
janimoMithrandir: thanks01:04
ograa fixed package is sitting on my disk ... waiting for the archive lock to go away01:04
DHGEin feisty: tex4ht (20060913-1) depends: tetex-bin OR texlive-base-bin     :-)01:07
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Mithrandirjanimo: -live ones ready too.01:10
DHGEthe html in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-3/ is broken01:11
MithrandirDHGE: how so?01:11
Mithrandirah, fixed.01:11
DHGElook and see01:11
Mithrandirit'll be visible on the next mirror run01:12
henoMithrandir: I've used the Status field to indicate how an image is doing. 'In Progress' means several successful installs reported, 'Need Info' means just one test (and we would ideally like more) Unconfirmed is no testing reported or heno doesn't know if the reports are good enough (or if the bugs reported are RC)01:12
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Mithrandirheno: ok, sounds useful.01:13
Mithrandirheno: I'll mark a couple of them as fix released, though01:13
pittiooh, the new ubiquity partitioner! if it only would allow me to create a /home partition01:13
henoMithrandir: cool01:13
cjwatsonpitti: hmm?01:14
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pitticjwatson: I attempted it three times, each time making the partition slightly smaller, it just ignores it01:14
cjwatsonpitti: trying it under ubiquity --debug would be good01:15
pitticjwatson: will do, and file a bug01:15
cjwatsonthanks, this is exactly the sort of thing I want to hear about01:15
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pitticjwatson: I guess you aren't yet interested in quarrells about the UI?01:15
cjwatsonpitti: well, not of the form "it's ugly and hard to use", but things like "that text field should really be a spinbutton", sure01:16
TheMusoIs it the LANG or LANGUAGE environment variable that should be checked for determining the language used on the system?01:17
_ionAmong others.01:18
janimoMithrandir: thanks for the isos01:19
Mithrandiroh, np01:19
pittiTheMuso: LANG is the default value for unset LC_* (except LC_ALL); I didn't yet figure out what LANGUAGE is good for01:23
TheMusopitti: Thanks, I thought LANG was it, but when I saw LANGUAGE referred to in some source code, I wasn't entirely sure.01:24
Treenakspitti: Gnome has some stuff about LANGUAGE01:24
pittiTheMuso: one difference is that LANG specifies one locale, and LANGUAGE is a list of fallback (like de:en)01:25
pittigoogle might help here01:25
Treenakspitti: it's a gnu extension01:25
janimoit is used by gettext in preference of LC_ALL and LANG01:26
pittijanimo: ugh, it dominates $LC_ALL?01:27
janimopitti according to info gettext it does01:27
_ionFor example, my settings are: LANG=fi_FI.UTF-8, LC_MESSAGES=en_US.UTF-8, LC_NUMERIC=en_US.UTF-8, LANGUAGE=en_US:en, i.e. programs should use the Finnish locale settings for things such as day and month names, paper size etc. but speak English. They should also print numbers with a decimal dot instead of the stupid Finnish comma.01:27
janimoexport LANGUAGE only and start mc01:27
pitti$ LANGUAGE=en locale still gives me all German locales01:27
siretartpitti: I'm just curious but has the MainInclusionQueue stalled? there doesn't seem to be much activity there lately.01:28
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pittisiretart: I approved a whole lot yesterday, and iwj approved something today01:28
givr1ogra: do you have some time to have a look at the fuse merge ? -> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3808/ ;) . Thanks 01:28
cjwatsonLANGUAGE is only used to override LC_MESSAGES01:29
cjwatsonsee locale(7)01:29
siretartpitti: aah, okay, then just false impression on my side :)01:29
pittisiretart: but if you have something urgent in the queue, please IRC-poke me01:29
cjwatsonit does dominate LC_ALL, but only if you're querying the LC_MESSAGES category01:29
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siretartpitti: it's not that important, I'm rather curious if cryptsetup and ffmpeg are going to make it into ubuntu 7.04/main01:30
pittisiretart: I don't really dare to judge about ffmpeg, I'd appreciate a verdict from TB or so01:31
TheMusoheh I didn't expect this to turn into such a big discussion. Thanks folks, I'll see whether its worth changing the code to refer to LANG rather than LANGUAGE.01:31
siretartpitti: err, the TB told me to file a MIR and look if it was fine. So I cannot go to the TB before not having a successful MIR for ffmpeg01:31
siretartpitti: looks like there is a deadlock01:31
ogragivr1, the udev stuff looks nice now ... how about switching from modifying /etc/modules to installing a file into /etc/modprobe.d/fuse instead :)01:32
pittisiretart: ah, ok01:32
pittisiretart: so I'll ignore the patent stuff and just look at it from the technical side01:32
siretartpitti: that would be great! thanks01:32
cjwatsonTheMuso: it's usually best to use setlocale() rather than checking environment variables directly01:32
TheMusocjwatson: Ok thanks.01:33
cjwatsonthough there are special cases that that doesn't cover01:33
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siretartpitti: regarding the patent stuff, I don't really see the legal difference between shipping ffmpeg in main, universe or multiverse. they are just other directories in the archive after all. However, I see that shipping it on pressed CDs makes a BIG difference. I still think that we are better off having it in main (if it fulfills the technical requirements, of course)01:34
pittisiretart: what was the primary reason for having it in main again? getting rid of the xine-lib package split?01:35
cjwatsonTheMuso: do we want this to be usable on an installed system too?01:35
siretartpitti: reducing code duplication, and stop using the internal ffmpeg copy in the xine-lib sources01:36
TheMusocjwatson: The scrip? I think there is debconf foo to handl configuration on a running system.01:36
cjwatsonTheMuso: hmm, on reflection, ignore that, I think it might be a bad idea because it would override an existing /etc/brltty.conf01:36
TheMusoWell debconf writes out a config fie anyway.01:36
siretartpitti: so in the end, ffmpeg is already in main somehow, with the consent of the TB01:36
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cjwatsondebconf isn't used any more01:37
TheMusoah ok01:37
cjwatsonit's just a conffile now01:37
TheMusoI just remember seeing something to do with BrlTTY and debconf on the debian accessibility list.01:37
cjwatsonwhich of course means that it's tricky for the installer to edit it ...01:38
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Kagoutkamppeter: can you have a look at on Bug #82187 ?01:42
UbugtuMalone bug 82187 in cupsys "[feisty]  USB printers not detected - user "lp" not in group "plugdev"" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8218701:42
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ogragivr1, the udev stuff looks nice now ... how about switching from modifying /etc/modules to installing a file into /etc/modprobe.d/fuse instead :)01:46
ogragivre, ^^01:46
ograMithrandir, how about releasing the lock ? 01:47
givreogra: didn't really know how to do so01:47
tepsipakkimdz: re: your post about util-linux. I remember it being forked, since Adrian Bunk doesn't cooperate with anyone :I01:47
pitticjwatson: ah, it wasn't so bad after all, just a miscalculated/misdisplayed free space; I filed a bug with the logs01:48
tepsipakkimdz: http://uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0612.2/0348.html01:48
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tkamppeterkangu, this is due to the introduction of a new method to create device files when hot-plugging the device. The /dev/usblpX files are created with ownerships root.plugdev.01:52
tkamppeterSo we must add the user as which CUPS is running (cupsys, lp? pitti?) to the group plugdev, probably in the post-install script of the cupsys package.01:53
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pittitkamppeter: hm, the /dev/usblpXX are supposed to have group 'lp', that looks like an udev bug01:55
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pittitkamppeter: but we can put cupsys into plugdev, no big deal01:56
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Kagoupitti: tkamppeter  ok so later i will test thi sworkaround to confirm01:58
cjwatsonpitti: thanks, I'll try to trudge through the debug log :)01:59
pittiKagou, tkamppeter: ah, I see02:00
pitti./20-names.rules.dpkg-old:BUS=="usb", KERNEL=="lp[0-9] *",               NAME="usb%k"02:00
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pittitkamppeter: hm, 40-permissions.rules first assigns plugdev to SUBSYSTEMS=="usb", and later SUBSYSTEM=="usb", KERNEL=="lp[0-9] *",   GROUP="lp"02:01
pittitkamppeter: not sure why that fails02:02
pittioh, and the first rule doesn't even match, it's only for block devices02:02
Kagoupitti: it's a typo ? : SUBSYSTEMS=="usb"   <->  SUBSYSTEM=="usb"02:07
Kagouwith or without "S302:07
Kagouwith or without "S"02:07
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givreogra: you're back :)02:18
givreogra: i understand that /etc/modprobe.d can be use to configure module, but i don't see how you can load stuff from here02:18
ograyeah, flaky DSL heer today02:18
ogragivre, yeah, that was a bad idea .. lets keep the /etc/modules variant02:18
pittiKagou: no, that's correct AFAIK; -S traverses parents, too02:18
Kagouoh, thanks pitti 02:19
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givreogra: ok, great. So what the next step. I fill a bug and subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to it, or you take care of everything...02:22
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ograwhat exactly is the problem with unmounting the fusectl fs ? 02:23
ograi will take care of everything ...02:23
givreno problem02:23
ograwhy dont you just add02:24
ograACTION=="remove", KERNEL=="fuse", \02:24
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ograGROUP="fuse", RUN+="umount_fusectl"02:24
tkamppeterpitti, so it is a bug in udev?02:25
givreok sorry, i though you saw my first message :02:25
givregivre: ogra: i use the udev rules to mount the fuse control filesystem, but i don't unmount it with the rule, because 1. it's impossible (AFAIK). 2. It's done anyway by /etc/init.d/umountfs02:25
pittitkamppeter: yes, somewhere in the rules02:25
ograwhy should that be impossible ? 02:25
Keybukogra: GROUP= is kinda irrelevant in a remove rule02:25
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ograi dont like the idea of having a mounted contol filesystem until we reboot02:26
givrebecause fusectl need the fuse module02:26
ograKeybuk, ah, right02:26
ograwe still should run umount fusectl to properly clean up 02:26
givreso we can't unload fuse if fusctl is still mounted02:27
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givre 2. It's done anyway by /etc/init.d/umountfs02:27
ograright, but you have it hanging around until you shut down ...02:27
givreogra: no it's unmounted with all local filsystem02:29
ograon shutdown02:29
givrei checked that yesterday02:30
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ograoh wait, you cant unload at all ...02:31
givreogra: no02:31
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givreuntil fusctl is not unmount, you can't02:31
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fabbioneMithrandir: could you be so kind to add herd-4 milestone to LP so i can actually target bugs? thanks02:35
Mithrandirfabbione: herd-3 isn't officially released yet, I'll get to it on my checklist.02:37
fabbioneMithrandir: cool thanks02:37
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^robertjhowdy all. Over the weekend I decided to mv xorg.conf and was surprised by how well everything worked without it. Only question is, how does it choose the default resolution. I've got a 1650x01050 display but it pulled out a 1400xsomething resolution. I noticed that this was also the same resolution suggested by Windows before I installed the NVidia driver, so that made me curious.02:43
Mithrandir^robertj: it asks you display02:43
Mithrandiryour, even02:43
^robertjMithrandir: via DDC?02:44
Mithrandir^robertj: yes.02:44
^robertjwhy would it report back the "wrong" resolution?02:44
Mithrandirmaybe your monitor lies or is confused, or maybe the driver doesn't know what resolution your card supports.02:45
^robertjMithrandir: I think the first would be more likely, as 1400xsomethign seems like a bad "safe" resolution when in doubt02:45
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Ng^robertj: the X server log will most likely list in extraordinary detail which modes it got from the monitor and why it rejected any of them02:46
^robertjI'll look into that tonight, worked fine with my old conf, which came from, err, I don't remember.02:47
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Mithrandir] : Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with feisty; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Herd 3 released.
Kagou^robertj: may be you have Bug #76054 ?!02:50
UbugtuMalone bug 76054 in xorg "Installer fails to detect monitor correctly" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/7605402:50
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^robertjbut err, kudos to yall and the upstream for the fact that something showed up at all without the config file :)02:50
^robertjKagou: doesn't seem to fit, but thanks.02:52
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KanoMithrandir: is there a logic  in the MD5SUM file? why is -b option not used for md5sum, so i always get a warning with cfv03:02
Kanowarning: file(s) tested in textmode03:03
MithrandirKano: huh?03:03
Kano-b adds a * in front of the name, no space03:03
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Kanosed -ri 's/  / */' MD5SUMS03:04
Kanothen the wanning is away03:04
Mithrandirwhy would we?03:04
Kano-b option add that 03:04
Kano-b is for binary md5sum as flag03:04
Kano       -b, --binary03:05
Kano              read in binary mode03:05
Mithrandirthat's not relevant on unix.03:05
Kanoi know,but tools like cfv find it as warning03:05
Mithrandirthen don't use those tools.03:05
Mithrandiruse md5sum to check.03:05
Kanoi like cfv03:05
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ogragivre, /etc/modprobe.d/fuse http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3821/03:07
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givreogra: wha great idea :)03:09
ogradrop udev and lets just take that fine 03:09
ograsaves the whole initscript stuff and is dynamic03:10
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crimsunogra: hi, do you plan to package libflashsupport from revolutionlinux's svn?03:10
ogracrimsun, it was in NEW already ...03:10
ograbut there were license issues iird03:10
=== ogra digs for the rejected mail
crimsunogra: ok, thanks03:11
ograI've rejected your libflashsupport upload.  It build-depends on03:11
ogralibssl-dev and libpulse-dev (which while being LGPL uses GPL-ed libs,03:11
ograso effectively is GPL).  The OpenSSL licence and the GPL are03:11
ograincompatible.  Please resolve this and upload again.03:11
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=== lamont looks around for Keybuk mdz or mjg59
=== pitti sees that herd-3 was released while he was offline due to testing; congrats, Mithrandir!
Keybuklamont: ?03:19
Mithrandirpitti: congrats to you too. :-)03:19
mjg59Laser_away: Mm?03:19
mjg59lamont: ?03:19
cjwatsonKano: I hadn't been aware that that option was interesting. I've made it use md5sum -b now, thanks; though if it causes problems for mirrors etc. I may well back that change out again.03:20
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lamontexpire, even03:20
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elkbuntuogra, if you have a moment, please see pm03:26
Mithrandirdoko: is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-central/+bug/56779 still a problem?03:26
UbugtuMalone bug 56779 in python-central "Error during Dapper-->Edgy update, problem removing python2.3" [High,In progress]  03:26
pittiMithrandir: that means I can do unlimited archive crack again, right? publisher is back to auto?03:26
Mithrandirpitti: yes and no, not yet.  (I'll do it soonish, but something has locked the distrorelease table so we can't flip feisty back to development)03:27
pittiok, thanks03:27
Mithrandirbut just go ahead with your shiny.03:27
henoMithrandir: Shall I fix release all the tracker bugs or will you run your script?03:28
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Mithrandirheno: I can do it.03:28
henoMithrandir: new tracker bugs for the actual Herd 3 images would be sweet too03:29
Mithrandirheno: I need a list of test cases, then.03:29
henoOh, so not just one per image as we have done?03:30
henoYou're right, I guess that's what we agreed03:30
Mithrandiriirc, it was one per test, but if you just want what we have, that's easy.03:30
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henoMithrandir: No, I'll email you a list. It will stay up for 2-3 weeks so we might as well try to encourage more varied testing03:33
Mithrandirheno: ok03:33
mdzlamont: people get mail about upcoming expiry now? neat03:34
lamontmdz: yeah.  and if it actually expires, then the first mail promises them another mail telling them that it happened.03:35
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ogracrimsun, hmm, looking at alsa-plugins, it seems we never installed the jack plugin (the corresponding lines in rules are commented) ...03:40
crimsunogra: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9952 2006-11-22 20:05 /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_jack.so03:42
ogra        dh_install03:43
ogra        #install $(INSTALL_UAG) jack/.libs/libasound_module_pcm_jack.so \03:43
ogra        #       debian/libasound2-plugins/usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_jack.so.2.0.003:43
ogra        #ln -s libasound_module_pcm_jack.so.2.0.0 \03:43
ogra        #       debian/libasound2-plugins/usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_jack.so03:43
ogra        dh_installdocs03:43
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crimsunogra: that's old; it no longer uses libasound_module_pcm_jack.so.
crimsunhence the commenting in debian/rules03:46
ograanyway, jack is disabled now in alsa-plugins03:46
ogranow the MIR and ltsp sound is done ... even though for feisty+1 i need to find a way for dynamically switching input sources on the client03:47
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crimsunpavucontrol doesn't cut it?03:49
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dholbachyooohoooo, herd3!!!03:51
ogra_crimsun, i need something that reacts on pluggin in a usb headset and switches the source underneath the pulse server ... i cant interact with the client so it must happen automatically03:54
ogra_for hal and dbus there is no space on a thin client 03:54
crimsunI know someone hacked up a udev rule to do that via a shell script, but it's ... ugly.03:54
ogra_but likely the only way03:55
ogra_it still needs to work on 32MB clients with network swap 03:55
ogra_so scripts or C  ... or very tiny python scripts ...03:55
Mithrandirmjg59: hmm, I think liferea might have become slower, yes.  It's sometimes just hanging or lagging.03:56
givreogra_: finaly : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3830/03:58
givreogra_: works great. Thanks :)03:59
ogra_looks nice as well :)04:00
ogra_can you put the full package anywhere so i can grab it for upload ? 04:00
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ogra_givr1, can you put it somewhere so i can grab and upload it ? 04:09
givr1ogra_: (in case you didn't get it, i have been disconnected) : http://flomertens.keo.in/merge/04:10
givr1sorry ;)04:10
ogra_thanks a lot !!!04:10
Keybukpitti: errrr.... where are my core dumps?04:11
givr1ogra_: ok, i have to go to work. Thanks !04:11
pittiKeybuk: look under the sofa?04:11
pittiKeybuk: -v ?04:11
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Keybukpitti: debugging a program, it core dumps -- yet there's no core dump in the working directory04:11
pittiKeybuk: '/etc/init.d/apport stop' then04:11
Keybukpitti: I did that, and that's what brought my core dumps back04:12
pittiKeybuk: core_pattern is a pipe to apport if apport is running04:12
Keybukwhich is why I'm blaming you04:12
Keybukit shouldn't prevent ordinary core dump generation04:12
pittithat's Linux upstream's prefered way of doing this...04:12
Keybukespecially not in people's home directories04:12
Keybukotherwise it makes ubuntu pretty useless as a development platform04:12
Keybukis there nothing apport can do to signal to the kernel to dump core as it used to?04:13
pittiKeybuk: apport could write the core dump on its own if we wanted, but core_pattern basically defines the name04:13
pittiwe might need to rethink the current kernel patch then04:14
Keybukyes ...04:14
Keybukright now I'd rather we shipped with this disabled than in its current form04:14
Keybukit's going to confuse and annoy a *lot* of developers04:14
Robot101Keybuk: what happens when your random app crashes and apport catches it too?04:18
pittiRobot101: not much, non-packaged apps are ignored by apport04:18
Robot101ok, so could it write the core dump as usual in those cases?04:18
pittiRobot101: that would certainly be doable if we want that04:19
Keybukright, there should be some way to do that04:19
Keybuke.g. if the pipe command exits non-zero, the kernel should do the default behaviour04:19
Robot101(ulimit permitting, I guess)04:19
pittithe kernel would need to pass the process' ulimit -c to apport, but that's no problem04:19
Keybukthat'd work too04:20
pittiKeybuk: doesn't work in that generality, because usually core_pattern specifies the filename04:20
pittiwe can default to core.<pid>, though04:20
Keybuk"core" is the default in Linux, no?04:20
pittiright, core_uses_pid is off by default04:21
Robot101what about adding core_pipe or something?04:21
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pittiRobot101: at some point you need to decide whether to pipe or to write a file04:23
pittiRobot101: I think the general idea of core_pattern is sane04:23
pittiand normal users don't want their fs cluttered with core dumps04:23
KeybukI agree you don't want core dumps for packaged apps04:24
pittiI like the 'write core file for unpackaged programs if ulimit -c permits' approach best so far04:24
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maswanBenC: btw, I just checked feisty, and kernel-wise systemtap works great. just needs a newer systemtap than packaged. :)04:41
elmomaswan: really?  sweet04:42
crimsunmaswan: will 0.0.20070113-1 (in sid) suffice?04:44
crimsunn/m, just read 8281704:45
maswancrimsun: yeah04:47
maswanelmo: yup, I just had to rebuild the systemtap stuff from sid, rename the vmlinux from linux-image-debug (I guess systemtap could be taught to search for it in the right place too though)04:47
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maswanthen at least the examples run fine. :)04:47
maswanbut the important thing is that I don't have to build a custom kernel for it04:48
glatzorRiddell: hi, you haven't added a script to call software-properties-qt from the command line. 04:50
glatzorRiddell: By the way thanks for fixing my awkward English grammar :)04:51
glatzorRiddell: don't you need one? or should I add one?04:51
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Riddellglatzor: hang on04:58
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Riddellglatzor: added, along with the start of the mirror dialgue05:00
Riddellglatzor: might take a while to get to the launchpad http archive, I'm not sure05:00
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dholbachTheMuso: new lsr release for you :-)05:18
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pittihmm, publisher still seems to be inactive05:27
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=== cypher1 is back (gone 00:00:02)
pittithere, sync queue down from 75 to 3 bugs05:29
bddebianw00t, thx pitti05:30
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Mithrandircypher1|away: please turn off public away.05:33
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pittiMithrandir, cjwatson: would you object if I unsubscribed ubuntu-archive from all SRU bugs, so that ~ubuntu-archive/+subscribedbugs actually becomes readable again?05:39
Mithrandirpitti: I find ~u-a/+ss quite ok already but yeah, I guess we can track them as soon as they show up in the queue05:40
pittiMithrandir: it's just that most of ubuntu-sru/+subscribedbugs are bugs we cannot process right now (I processed all that can be)05:41
pittiOTOH, ubuntu-archive bugs can (in general) be processed any time05:41
Mithrandirpitti: 'k05:42
bddebian*cough* NEW *cough* :-)05:42
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Mithrandirbddebian: NEW doesn't show up in bug listings.05:43
fabbioneseb128: bug #82871 is all your05:43
UbugtuMalone bug 82871 in gnome-app-install "Bomb appears after rebooting from Feisty herd 3 alternate" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8287105:43
=== bddebian submits a bug report ;-P
pittiMithrandir: ok, let's see what cjwatson's opinion is05:44
bddebianMithrandir: I'm just being a smart alec, ignore me.  You guys do great stuff! :)05:44
seb128fabbione: why?05:44
Mithrandirbddebian: so we have less time to process new and fix bug.  Useful.05:44
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seb128fabbione: mvo is upstream for that software, don't you think he would be a better idea to have him look at the problem?05:44
fabbioneseb128: oh is he? cool05:44
fabbioneseb128: i though it was some random gnome crap :P05:44
seb128gnome-app-install ... that's the add/remove program he wrote for Ubuntu05:45
seb128and that bug report is useless05:45
seb128attaching the crash file would be useful05:45
fabbioneseb128: yeah i didn't know about mvo being upstream... and yes i already told Marc about needinfo :)05:45
seb128the bomb indicates there is a crash file to /var/crash05:46
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pittiseb128: the crash file is attached (several times)05:46
pittithere was a nice python backtrace05:46
seb128pitti: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-app-install/+bug/82871 ?05:47
UbugtuMalone bug 82871 in gnome-app-install "Bomb appears after rebooting from Feisty herd 3 alternate" [High,Confirmed]  05:47
henosfllaw: can you look at this page and fill in some blanks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/InstallMethods ?05:47
fabbionesfllaw: can you please give me time to process bugs before you close reject them? there is no need to file another one05:47
seb128pitti: my browser doesn't list any attachment, weird05:47
henoand possibly expand some of them too05:47
fabbionepitti: mine neither...05:47
pittiseb128: hm, doesn't sound like the but I meant, it seems that one is a dup05:47
fabbioneseb128: it's pitti's suppah powah05:47
seb128pitti: likely, there is not enough information to say though ;)05:48
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pittiseb128: yup, bug 8058905:48
UbugtuMalone bug 80589 in gnome-app-install "daily live comes with crash report - pre-populated!" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8058905:48
pittithat's the good one05:48
seb128thank you for the pointer ;)05:48
pittide rien05:48
pittiseb128: that's the bug that is mentioned a hundred times in the iso testing bugs, btw05:49
fabbionepitti: our is from alternate install.. i assume that's the same in this case05:50
pittifabbione: yup05:50
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cjwatsonpitti: ok, but if you do, change StableReleaseUpdates to match05:51
pitticjwatson: of course; I'm just interested in the opinions so far05:52
pittiand what the other admins would prefer05:52
fabbionedholbach: do you feel comfy to fix bug #82874 ? it's usually a one line change in the pci.id file.. should be very easy05:52
UbugtuMalone bug 82874 in discover-data "Graphic controller not detected properly on Dimension 9150 for Feisty herd 3" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8287405:52
cjwatsonpitti: if those people who are actually processing SRUs are monitoring ~ubuntu-sru/+subscribedbugs, then it's OK05:52
dholbachfabbione: why don't you do it? you know more about that than I do...05:53
pitticjwatson: that would be Mithrandir and me, according to new standards; and yes, due to team membership I'm monitoring05:53
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poningruheno: ping06:00
henoponingru: hi06:00
poningruheno: quick question were you the one that moved the herd3 to ubuntu.com?06:01
poningrucan i ask for a small favor?06:01
henoponingru: yes, and probably yes06:01
pittiyay, my first source NEW06:01
poningrucan you upload the latest version of herd3 from the wiki?06:01
poningrusome guy had removed the ekiga06:02
henoponingru: ok, are you maintaining these pages these days?06:02
poningruheno: err sure kinda06:02
poningruheno: actually thats another thing is there anyway for us to lock these pages down?06:03
poningruor something06:03
henoI ask because we need to speak with the webmaster about a more robust process for this move06:03
poningruoh yes please06:03
poningruheno: convo >> #ubuntu-marketing ?06:03
poningruheno: actually there were a few edits that I would like to get in there before you actually move it is that ok?06:05
henoponingru: can you join #ubuntu-matt06:05
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sfllawseb128: Bug 60277 is ready for edgy-updates06:10
UbugtuMalone bug 60277 in nautilus "Windows Network entries use a text icon instead of a computer one" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6027706:10
seb128sfllaw: thank you06:10
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^robertjwhere should email regarding minor layout issues with ubuntu.com go?06:13
Seveas^robertj, you can file them as bug on http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website06:14
^robertjah silly me06:15
cjwatson(or ubuntu-cdimage if it's cdimage.u.c or releases.u.c)06:15
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seb128sfllaw: could you look at bug #76301 as well? That would be easier to accept both proposed updates together06:20
UbugtuMalone bug 76301 in gnome-vfs2 "patch from CVS to fix crash triggered when closing ekiga by example" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/7630106:20
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derjoerghi everybody06:21
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alex-weejis the ubuntu web open source?06:24
pittiMithrandir: do we generally require that debian/copyright has the short standard GPL blurb? bzr-pqm in NEW only has a pointer to /usr/share/common-licenses, and that looks suspicious to me06:29
Mithrandirpitti: no.06:29
Burgworkalex-weej: in what sense?06:32
alex-weejcan i make it look better?06:32
Burgworkyou are talking about ubuntu.com?06:32
alex-weejand submit a patch06:32
Burgworkright, currently ubuntu.com runs on a modified moin engine06:32
derjoergdoes anybody now how to build vanilla kernel with the ubuntu specific patches?06:32
Burgworkit is being moved to a joomla-based system06:33
Burgworkhowever, there is no timeframe on that06:33
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twbMithrandir: hey, does feisty's casper do netbooting yet?06:35
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pittibddebian: here?06:45
bddebianYessir, what'd I break now?06:45
pittibddebian: nothing yet :)06:45
pittibddebian: just reviewing libticables06:45
bddebianAh, OK06:45
pittibddebian: that has an internal copy of gettext06:45
pittibddebian: does the package actually configure to use glibc's one?06:45
pitti(I guess the internal copy is for the windows build)06:46
pittibddebian: ok, then I already ran out of excuses to reject it :)06:47
=== bddebian feels the love
bddebianKickin'.  Libticonv and I can start on tilp2 :-(  Thx pitti06:50
pittiargh, when doing 'view file | view -' it's time for weekend...06:55
ogra_doubleview :)06:55
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pittiargh, ubuntu-desktop now depends on network-manager-gnome06:58
ogra_wasnt that intended ? 06:58
Mithrandirpitti: yes, that's intentional06:58
ogra_just switch to edubuntu :)06:59
seb128pitti: why "argh"?06:59
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keescookmornin' folks07:06
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dholbachheya keescook07:07
pittiwell, it's fairly useless for desktops07:07
pittimvo: hmm, if I purge network-manager from my system, shouldn't that auto-remove dhcdbd and friends (libs?) as well?07:07
keescookhiya dholbach07:07
keescooktoday bdmurray has joined me at the "east side" portland office.  :)07:07
dholbachyooohooo :)07:07
dholbachgo Ubuntu Portland Office :-)07:07
pittihey keescook 07:07
keescookhiya pitti :)07:08
mvopitti: yes, let me check07:08
bddebianHey, I think you need a Philly office! :)07:10
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pittimvo: still here?07:23
pittimvo: I rejected synaptic/a-i-d-commercial, see bug 8142807:25
UbugtuMalone bug 81428 in app-install-data-commercial "sugarcrm needs update of app-install-data-commercial and a synaptic fix" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8142807:25
glatzorRiddell: do you plan to make the kde port depend on KDE?07:26
glatzorRiddell: or will it be qt only in the future? 07:27
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mvopitti: ok, I check07:28
mvopitti: argh, right07:28
Lurepitti: thanks for sru accept07:30
pittimvo: and please don't forget correct -v (I didn't check the .changes)07:32
mvopitti: I had it in the initial upload, I almost forgot it now :)07:32
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bddebiandoko: Do you know much about kimwitu++ or did you just upload it last to fix it?07:35
dokobddebian: the latter07:37
bddebianDamn, OK, thx07:37
pittimvo: oh, synaptic is a Debian native package?07:39
mvopitti: yes07:40
pittimvo: synaptic accepted, waiting for a-i-d07:40
mvopitti: rock! thanks07:40
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pittimvo: hm, I need to leave nowish; maybe you can ask Mithrandir or cjwatson to accept the a-i-d upload?07:46
Riddellglatzor: no immediate plans for that07:46
dholbachogra_: new genius release07:47
mvopitti: the upload should already be available :/ but no problem, I will ask them for it!07:47
ogra_genuius ? 07:47
Riddellglatzor: feel free to rename the file if you want, but my rationale is that margionally more people will recognise KDE than qt07:47
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mvopitti: thanks a lot for the work!07:47
glatzorRiddell: I was just wondering why it was named qt07:47
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ogra_dholbach, aaah, genius07:47
glatzorRiddell: I hope that most people using KDE don't have to install it manually :)07:48
mvo# ldconfig07:48
mvoSegmentation fault07:48
mvo ^--- that sounds serious :)07:48
pittimvo: checkign queue again...07:49
pittimvo: nope, nothing there07:49
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Riddellglatzor: how come DialogMirror is copyright FSF-E?07:50
mvopitti: oh, it took a bit until I got the mail. but no worries, I will pester cjwatson or Mithrandir about the app-install-data-commercial upload07:52
pittimvo: ok, we just decided for watching a movie, so I'll still be around a bit (with some interruptions) :)07:52
mvopitti: haha, ok07:52
pittimvo: ah, it's there now; twice! o_O07:52
mvoheh :) I uploaded it once more just to be sure07:53
pinaany processor geeks07:53
pinawhats the amd64 k2 like07:53
pittimvo: I reject the duplicate upload, don't be scared; I accepted the other one07:54
Mithrandirmvo: please don't upload multiple times, it creates extra work for the admins.07:54
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pittiok, have a nice weekend everyone!07:55
Mithrandirsee you, pitti 07:55
glatzorRiddell: completely written by me :) but we can change this without any problem07:56
dholbachgood night everybody - have a nice WE!07:58
bddebianYou too dholbach07:58
dholbachthanks bddebian07:58
ogra_night dholbach 07:58
dholbachbye ogra_07:58
mvobye dholbach!07:59
mvohave a great WE!07:59
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juliuxhi, is it a knowen problem that the herd3 installer is not working on core duo?08:09
cjwatsonjuliux: no, bug#?08:10
cjwatsonand which installer?08:10
juliuxcjwatson, i try to find it i report it allready for herd308:11
cjwatsondon't necessarily assume that it's the same bug08:11
cjwatsonI'm pretty sure I fixed *one* issue affecting core duos from herd208:11
juliuxhey no it is working08:12
juliuxafter 3-4min 08:12
cjwatsonoh, that's in the release announcement, which you should read08:12
juliuxbut i get always a kernel not found08:12
cjwatsonat hardware detection?08:12
juliuxand now it is workind08:12
cjwatsonyes, see the release announcement08:12
cjwatsonthat's not actually "kernel not found", it's "kernel: not found", i.e. a message "not found" emitted by the kernel08:13
cjwatsonthe message could do with being a touch more verbose ...08:13
cjwatsonanyway, workaround is hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false if you don't need PCMCIA08:13
juliuxi will test it08:14
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juliuxcjwatson, thxs it's working08:17
juliuxi was wondering because on my athlon xp it work's without this workaround08:18
bddebianAnyone know how I fix something like this appropriately?  "sh compile-foo.sh"  then compile-foo.sh has 'sh libtool ...' which fails 08:18
bddebiansh compile-gtk2im.sh08:20
bddebian/bin/sh: Can't open libtool08:20
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davmor2heno: are you there08:21
cjwatsonjuliux: your athlon xp probably happens to have the i82365 pcmcia chipset for some reason08:21
bddebianI know I can change 'sh libtool ...' to 'sh /usr/bin/libtool ..' and it will work but it seems like a hack08:21
cjwatsonjuliux: if that's not present, a kernel bug means that we get into a udev/modprobe loop08:21
juliuxcjwatson, my core duo is also a desktop pc08:21
henodavmor2: hi08:21
cjwatsonjuliux: yeah, I expected that08:21
juliuxcjwatson, i will test it also on my notebook;)08:21
cjwatsonjuliux: anyway, point is the processor isn't the relevant thing in this case08:22
davmor2heno: discovered a usability flaw with herd 3 listed on the testing forum08:22
juliuxcjwatson, i never stop learning08:22
davmor2heno:Basically you get two icon for networking on a laptop which will be confusing as hell for a new user.08:23
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henodavmor2: yes, I think network-monitor is meant to be removed08:24
davmor2heno: should it be reported as a bug though?08:24
henodavmor2: if it's still there on wednesday file a bug in Malone 08:24
henoI think there is one already08:25
Mithrandiryes, there is.08:25
cjwatsondavmor2: known, was discussed here earlier08:25
davmor2okay cool08:25
henodavmor2: just curious did you try a search in Malone08:25
heno(because that still needs some work)08:26
henoand we should probably document that better as well08:26
siretartcjwatson: are there plans to readd raid and lvm support to the livecd?08:26
henowhen you see a new bug appear, have a look at bugs filed ijn the past two days 08:26
heno... or something08:27
cjwatsonsiretart: it's never supported those08:27
cjwatsonsiretart: I do plan to build that on top of the new partitioner eventually, though08:27
siretartcjwatson: the dapper live cd does both out of the box, and works fine!08:27
pinawhat is a .core file ? core dump?08:27
Nafallocjwatson: that would rock :-)08:27
pinaits created in the home dir i know but it's created when a program crashes?08:27
Mithrandirsiretart: that's by accident rather than by design.08:27
davmor2heno:No but only because I wasn't sure whether to report it as a bug.  Yo are right though the search needs some help.  I often fill out a new report because the original is under something completely different.08:27
cjwatsonsiretart: only because mdadm and lvmwhatsit happened to be in the dapper standard seed08:28
cjwatsonNafallo: feel free to help out with the new partitioner ...08:28
sfllawseb128: SRU for bug 76301 is approved.08:28
UbugtuMalone bug 76301 in gnome-vfs2 "patch from CVS to fix crash triggered when closing ekiga by example" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/7630108:28
siretartMithrandir: It's a really helpful accident, since it allows me to actually repair my system and restore my lvm metadata, which is on a md raid08:28
Nafallocjwatson: might be better for our users if I don't really :-P08:29
siretartcjwatson: what's the problem with adding mdadm and lvm2 back to the live seed?08:29
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Mithrandirsiretart: just install them on the live cd when you want to recover stuff, then?08:29
siretartMithrandir: I tried that, but for some reason, it didn't get my volume group started08:30
henosfllaw: re-ping - Can you look at this and fill in some blanks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/InstallMethods ?08:30
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siretartI think I already filed a lp bug about that.. lemme search08:30
cjwatsonsiretart: at the moment, ubiquity will fail if you have active MDs or VGs08:30
cjwatsonwell, LVs08:30
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davmor2I think that people with some technical proficiency tend to select the exact package the bug affects where as users just go this is broken.  With apport now you get a nice bug-report but quite often people just leave it to the program.08:31
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cjwatsonsiretart: this is a bug, but I don't overly want to trigger it deliberately until I have time to add full support to ubiquity08:31
siretartcjwatson: aah, I see. would you accept a patch to ubuiqity which searches for active vg, deactivates lvm and continues with it?08:32
cjwatsonsiretart: sure08:32
cjwatsonsiretart: on the understanding that it will be obsoleted in time08:32
sfllawheno: Ah, missed that.  Sorry.  Will do.08:32
henocool, thanks08:32
cjwatsonwell, when I say "will fail", I mean "I got bug reports about it in the dapper cycle", but I haven't knowingly fixed it08:33
siretartcjwatson: if we can have mdadm and lvm2 back in the live seed, sure!08:33
cjwatsonsiretart: I dunno. If installing them after boot doesn't work for you, then there's something else wrong08:33
cjwatsonyou might have to run some of the usual tools, but ...08:34
siretartI see, I'll retry with herd3 with manually installing them then08:34
cjwatsonthe problem with adding them back is that I'm pretty sure they'd be first against the wall as soon as there's any size pressure08:35
cjwatsonwhich there will be08:35
cjwatsonif the installer supported LVM and RAID, there would be a stronger case for having them there08:35
siretarthm.. ic08:36
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somerville32Mithrandir, ping09:32
Mithrandirsomerville32: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.09:32
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somerville32Mithrandir, Is there any reason Xubuntu Herd 3 hasn't been released yet? :)09:33
bddebianhehe kylem09:36
Adri2000somerville32: gpocentek said he didn't have time to test it, and then I don't know what happened09:36
somerville32Jani seems to think it is ok to release them (I assume she tested them)09:37
somerville32I'll do some more poking to make sure.09:37
phanaticsomerville32: she!?09:38
somerville32phanatic, he, she... it's all the same on the internet ;] 09:39
phanaticsomerville32: i've met him is person, so i do care ;)09:40
somerville32We all know he is a guy but my brain sees "Jani" and thinks female09:40
_ionWell, Jani is *obviously* a male name. ;-)09:41
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kylemsomerville32 is just mentally replacing "jani" with "janeway"09:41
zulim mentally undressing janeway09:42
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kylemreally didn't need to know that, zul.09:44
zulyeah i probably should have kept that to msyelf09:44
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joejaxxhello _TomB 09:51
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hackeronhi, I'm trying to install ubuntu, but it seems there's a version mismatch between the available version of nvidia-kernel-source (1.0.8774) and nvidia-glx (1.0.8776) - is this a known issue?11:03
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hackeronjust did another apt-get update, looks like it's fixed already :)11:06
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Riddellglatzor: how's the packaging getting on?11:07
Riddellglatzor: I think I'm about done11:07
somerville32Riddell: Do you think you could test the Xubuntu PPC build for us again for Herd 2, please? : )11:08
Riddellherd 2?  that's obsolete11:08
maxamillionanyone know who maintains the libapache2-mod-python package?11:08
somerville32*Herd 311:08
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glatzorRiddell: fine. nearly done. I just perfrom a final test11:08
Riddellglatzor: I just pushed some more changes11:09
Riddellthat's me done with it until after 11:09
Riddellfeature freeze11:09
Riddellsomerville32: URL?11:09
somerville32Riddell: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/11:09
glatzorRiddell: ok. do you want to have a dist-upgrader-kde package? or should we just skip the kde frontend in the update-manager bianry packages11:10
somerville32Riddell: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/11:10
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somerville32Riddell, desktop and alternative ISOs respectively11:11
BrendanMHello, somebody told me you could request Ubuntu rebuilds of software here. Could somebody point me in the direction to do that?11:11
Riddellglatzor: is there a dist-upgrader package for gnome?11:11
BrendanMI found a Debian package but it's not working right on my system.11:11
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RiddellBrendanM: if there's a source package ask in #ubuntu-motu for someone to consider it for upload11:13
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glatzorRiddell: no. it is part of update-manager. If there is a complex dependency situation the update will be performed by dist-upgrader11:19
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Riddellglatzor: oh, not needed there I think11:20
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glatzorRiddell: I think so too. So I will just not provide binary packages for the KDE view11:25
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twbMithrandir: hey, does feisty's casper do netbooting yet?11:31
Riddellglatzor: I pushed another change (making it use datadir)11:31
cbx33Can i ask guys, what is this channel for discussing specifically?11:32
cbx33just dev of Ubuntu and not apps specific to ubuntu?11:32
glatzorRiddell: I already fixed this11:32
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glatzorRiddell: to test you need both of these two: http://bzr.glatzor.de/python-apt/sebi and http://bzr.glatzor.de/software-properties/sebi11:34
Riddellglatzor: has python-apt updated today?11:35
glatzorRiddell: it was a broken one.11:35
geserkeescook: hi, would you sponsor an upload of gnupg2 again? I've packages ready for the new upstream release (2.0.2)11:36
keescookgeser: cool, sure.  where can I find it?11:37
geserkeescook: http://members.ping.de/~mb/gnupg2/11:37
keescookgeser: any particular changes to the packaging or is it just an upstream release bump?11:39
geserprimary only the new upstream version, I've done only 3 small fixes11:42
keescookokay, cool.  I'll get to it in a bit.  thanks for getting it packaged!11:43
geserall stated in the new changelog entry11:43
tepsipakkioh crud, xscreensaver was in main11:47
tepsipakkitried to upload it :)11:48
Riddellglatzor: works perfectly11:49
glatzorRiddell: fine.11:49
Riddellglatzor: so... shall we upload to ubuntu?11:50
glatzorwhich files should I add to the POTFILES.in? can gettext deal with ui files?11:50
Riddellno it can't11:50
Riddellbut all the strings should be the same as the GTK UI11:50
glatzorRiddell: oh, I would like to fix some issues before.11:50
Riddellok :)11:50
Riddellglatzor: just add the four .py files11:52
glatzorthere seems to be a problem with special chars. The German ones, e.g. , are broken in the KDE frontend11:52
Riddellmeh, I tested it with french11:52
Riddellall of them?11:52
glatzoroh, seems to work now.11:54
glatzorthe strings from the iso country codes were broken11:54
Riddellwhere? in the mirror dialogue?11:54
glatzorRiddell: yes. but it is ok now.11:55
Riddellumm..  something funny going on 11:55
glatzorRiddell: night. I have to get up early tomorrow11:55
Riddellok, sleep well glatzor, thanks for everything11:55
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glatzorRiddell: you are welcome11:56
krocjwatson: Should the netboot version of debian installer located at http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/ work?11:57
krocjwatson: thats what I used.11:57
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