[12:21] <toma> mhb: concrats
[12:21] <yuriy_> mhb: i'm working on it right now (though i should really be doing homework) but i'll need software properties, which Riddell said will be uploaded tomorrow
[12:22] <Riddell> yuriy_: the gtk version is available in update-manager if you want to try it out
[12:22] <Riddell> it works exactly the same
[12:22] <Riddell> just change software-properties to software-properties-kde for the final thing
[12:32] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:32] <mhb> hi Hobbsee
[12:57] <MrWGW> good afternoon
[01:17] <XVampireX> stable 2.6.20 is out
[01:22] <MrWGW> dang it
[01:36] <imbrandon> meetinglogger, pong , amarok 1.4.5 uploaded to feisty not too long ago, it should hit the next publisher run, edgy packages building now
[01:36] <imbrandon> brb time to goto the store and grab some dew
[01:36] <XVampireX> woot :D
[01:36] <XVampireX> Are there alot of optimizations in 1.4.5?
[01:36] <XVampireX> because 1.4.4 is still a hog and takes long time to load
[01:38] <Riddell> imbrandon!
[01:38] <Riddell> oh, bad, beaten by mountain dew
[01:39] <imbrandon> hehe
[01:39] <Riddell> ooh, that was quick
[01:39] <Riddell> imbrandon: are you doing edgy builds?
[01:39] <imbrandon> i dident leave yet and the computer "dinged"
[01:39] <imbrandon> Riddell, i have the libgpod compiling now for edgy, but if you already and planned on finishing them tonight
[01:40] <imbrandon> unless you have them already ( doubtfull since i just uploaded it )
[01:40] <Riddell> hmm, I don't see 1.4.5 announced on the amarok website, why do people keep saying it's released?
[01:40] <ajmitch> imbrandon: can't live without the mt dew..
[01:40] <XVampireX> Riddell: It is
[01:40] <Riddell> XVampireX: where?
[01:40] <XVampireX> Riddell: They are lazy
[01:42] <Riddell> XVampireX: so where have you seen it?  it's not on http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/Download:Source
[01:42] <imbrandon> Riddell, they dident announce it yet
[01:42] <crimsun> imbrandon: / Riddell: ponies!
[01:42] <imbrandon> because it hasent synced to ftp.kde
[01:42] <XVampireX> Riddell: #amarok
[01:43] <XVampireX> Riddell: Read the topic in there
[01:43] <imbrandon> Riddell, < apachelogger> markey: 1.4.5 is on ktown, gets synced to ftp.kde until sunrise (hopefully) ;-)
[01:43] <imbrandon> so no official web announcement other than IRC yet
[01:43] <imbrandon> crimsun, !!
[01:44] <Riddell> ok, so no major panic
[01:44] <imbrandon> right
[01:44] <ajmitch> crimsun!!!
[01:44] <imbrandon> i made sure hehehe
[01:44] <ajmitch> imbrandon: making sure you don't package up & distribute a broken pre-release?
[01:44] <Riddell> imbrandon: are you planning to do edgy backports on all three platforms?
[01:45] <Riddell> ajmitch: has there been a broken pre-release?
[01:45] <imbrandon> i dont have my ppc running atm ;( but i can cover the other two
[01:45] <Riddell> imbrandon: good enough for me
[01:45] <imbrandon> ajmitch, hehe nah we got the "official" tarbal a few days ago but we arent supose to upload it to the main repos till its "released"
[01:45] <Riddell> imbrandon: throw all the files up on a web server somewhere and ping me, I'll put them on kubuntu.org in the European morning
[01:45] <imbrandon> kk
[01:47] <ajmitch> Riddell: not that I'm aware of
[01:48] <Riddell> fabo: do you plan to upload basket 0.6 to debian soon?  would be cool to get it in ubuntu before feature freeze on thursday
[01:48] <Riddell> oh, it's ana doing basket, my mistake
[01:49] <Riddell> and it's a release candidate, ignore me
[01:50] <imbrandon> gnight Riddell
[03:24] <yuriy> hmm software-properties doesn't seem to work with kdesu
[06:09] <Hobbsee> fabo: how is 0.6.0 == 1.0~beta3?
[06:09] <Hobbsee> (basket)
[06:17] <Hobbsee> Riddell: basket 0.6.0 is in ubuntu, has been for quite some itme now.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> there are debs for edgy on the site
[06:18] <Hobbsee> or just build the feisty source for edgy
[06:19] <Jucato> heh yeah :)
[06:19] <Jucato> I might build from source, as a test of my packaging studies :P
[06:20] <ash211> Hobbsee: was that Amarok 1.4.5 upload only for feisty?
[06:20] <Hobbsee> ash211: yeah, think so
[06:20] <Hobbsee> at the moment
[06:20] <ash211> so there's an edgy/dapper release planned?
[06:21] <Hobbsee> !info libgpod edgy
[06:21] <ubotu> Package libgpod does not exist in edgy
[06:21] <Hobbsee> hrm, maybe.
[06:21] <Hobbsee> edgy at least
[06:21] <ash211> great
[06:21] <Jucato> !info libgtkpod edgy
[06:21] <ubotu> Package libgtkpod does not exist in edgy
[06:21] <Jucato> lol sorry :)
[06:21] <ash211> thanks for uploading that, Hobbsee
[06:22] <Hobbsee> ash211: imbrandon did.  i made changes while it was still on his harddrive :)
[06:22] <ash211> hey, whatever works!
[06:24] <ash211> that works for adept but not amarok for me
[06:24] <ash211> I wonder why
[06:31] <zakame> afternoon kubuntu devs
[06:31] <Jucato> yep, still afternoon for Hobbsee :)
[06:32] <Hobbsee> :)
[06:35] <zakame> yo Hobbsee
[06:39] <crimsun> sigh, so the mysql and postgresql backends are completely busted for amarok 1.4.5 in feisty
[07:04] <wgw> good evening
[07:04] <zakame> ho wgw
[07:05] <wgw> ho?
[07:05] <wgw> that's a new one :)
[07:05] <wgw> I've just been having an agonizing day in terms of GUI development...
[07:06] <wgw> err design
[07:11] <wgw_> back sry
[07:34] <wgw__> kwwii, are you around?
[08:07] <kwwii> wgw__: yepp
[08:34] <wgw__> kwii, fyi I'm here
[09:24] <kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/KubuntuFeistyIdeas
[09:24] <kwwii> for anyone interested in art stuff :-)
[09:24] <wgw__> pretty cool
[09:24] <wgw__> let's see if we can't teach the Apple people how to make an OS look nice :-P
[09:25] <wgw__> that would be nice
[09:25] <wgw__> dare I confess that I find the KDE icon/logo to be annoying?
[09:25] <wgw__> it's not as bad as the GNOME foot, but still, it annoys me
[09:26] <Jucato> kwwii: iirc Tonio_  mentioned a problem with the fonts? suggesting to switch to DejaVu as default?
[09:26] <kwwii> Jucato: yeah, it appears to be a bug in the kde font handling
[09:27] <kwwii> it does not recognize the condensed size because of a problem in the name
[09:27] <wgw__> speaking of which, Jucato
[09:27] <Jucato> oh
[09:27] <wgw__> I was telling kwwii, I was able to get a huge improvement in the font display
[09:27] <wgw__> but in order to do it, I had to use proprietary fonts
[09:27] <Jucato> wgw__: too bad... :(
[09:27] <wgw__> so I'm hoping to find the time at some point this year to do a halfway decent knockoff of Helvetica, and of Futura
[09:28] <wgw__> but basically, my solution has been to use the proprietary fonts + medium strength hinting in KDE, with hinting turned completely off in GNOME
[09:28] <wgw__> GNOME's hinting distorts the letterforms, especially the upper 33%, and also messes with the kerning
[09:29] <wgw__> however, some free fonts might be up to the task
[09:29] <wgw__> now in the US, a typeface itself can't be copyrighted
[09:29] <wgw__> but a font software program can
[09:29] <wgw__> so the trick is basically to rip off the font and get the clone software to do as good or better a job at rendering the letterforms
[09:29] <wgw__> and in the US, at any rate, that's legal
[09:30] <Jucato> but in other countries?
[09:30] <Jucato> kwwii: btw, is there a technical advantage in making the Background.png in the ksplash theme just a symlink to the Kubuntu wallpaper?
[09:30] <wgw__> well, that's difficult to say
[09:31] <wgw__> however, the font Nimbus Sans is an absolute rip off of Helvetica, and Zurich is an absolte rip off of Univers
[09:31] <Jucato> wgw__: which makes it more difficult to implement :)
[09:31] <wgw__> and Zurich gets bundled with MS windows
[09:31] <wgw__> and Nimbus gets bundled with many UNIXes I've tried
[09:31] <wgw__> so I don't think its a problem
[09:31] <wgw__> Helvetica and Univers IIRC are owned by a major typefoundry
[09:32] <wgw__> at least 50% of the fonts that ship with any Linux do seem to be rip offs, so I don't think its a problem
[09:32] <wgw__> the trouble is, they're not good rip offs
[09:32] <wgw__> in terms of kerning, and other subtle details
[09:32] <Jucato> seem to be vs. actually are...
[09:32] <wgw__> Nimbus, for instance, doesn't perform nearly as well as geniune Helvetica or even Arial on Linux
[09:33] <kwwii> Jucato: I think that is an issue with updating
[09:34] <Jucato> kwwii: hm... ok... :)
[09:34] <Jucato> kwwii: btw, were you able to see what I mentioned about the default color scheme in Edgy vs. the one .kcsrc file in kubuntu-default-settings ?
[09:37] <kwwii> nope
[09:37] <kwwii> what was wrong?
[09:38] <Jucato> kwwii: the Default Scheme that is used after installation, is not the same as the kuseven color scheme in kubuntu-default-settings. so basically, there's no way to revert to the exact default Kubuntu scheme once you change it
[09:39] <kwwii> hrm, we shold talk to tonio about that
[09:39] <kwwii> I changed it for feisty
[09:39] <Jucato> ah
[09:39] <kwwii> maybe he included that already
[09:39] <kwwii> I changed it so it would look better with polyester
[09:39] <Jucato> nice :)
[09:39] <kwwii> we still need to tweak it probably
[09:40] <Jucato> with kwwii at the help, how can we go artistically wrong? (is there such a word? :P)
[09:41] <kwwii> ;-)
[10:00] <yuriy> ping Lure
[10:09] <wgw__> my top non-artistic gripes about the ubuntus are the lack of preinstalled Java, and the fact that if you hit "ESC" it won't let you see the boot process in verbose mode
[10:09] <wgw__> and also the fact that it's a pain to modify it so that you can run as root (which is actually useful for certain things IMO)
[10:10] <Jucato> #1 was due to previous license issues, #2 is due to USplash...
[10:10] <wgw__> I take it that since Java is being GPLed, #1 will be addressed?
[10:10] <wgw__> although hadn't Java been CDDL'ed previously?
[10:10] <Jucato> wgw__: hm.. not installed by default probably... dunno
[10:11] <wgw__> that's annoying, since Java is a really useful tool to enable cross platform computing
[10:11] <wgw__> and I still don't have it properly configured
[10:11] <wgw__> but alas
[10:11] <wgw__> Ubuntu makes up for it in other areas
[10:11] <Jucato> not everybody needs to use Java...
[10:11] <wgw__> I see the Ubuntus, more than any other distros, being the distro that pushes Linux out to the consumer and education markets
[10:30] <Lure> yuriy: pong
[10:31] <yuriy> Lure: it doesn't crash without software-properties though, right?
[10:31] <Lure> yuriy: no, it properly reports that adept is probably not installed.
[10:31] <Lure> yuriy: this is why I marked that bug as "Fix Committed"
[10:32] <yuriy> ok, just wanted to make sure. is software-properties-kde going to be part of adept?
[10:32] <Lure> yuriy: I do not think so - probably update-manager
[10:32] <Lure> Riddell: ^^^
[10:41] <_StefanS_> hi
[10:45] <Tonio_> hi
[10:46] <_StefanS_> I will work on that logout dialog a little later, but just have some regular work to attend to
[10:47] <_StefanS_> btw, the windeco you were considering (polyester) have a 1 pixel area around the window when they are maximized, that won't allow you just move the mouse all the way to the upper right to close the window.
[10:47] <_StefanS_> thats a usuability issue to me
[10:52] <Lure> Tonio_: hi - got my e-mail
[10:52] <Tonio_> Lure: hum let me look
[10:53] <Tonio_> Lure: are the archives frozen ?
[10:53] <Jucato> _StefanS_: windeco will still be Crystal. it's the widget style that's changing to polyester
[10:53] <Lure> Tonio_: no
[10:53] <_StefanS_> oh :)
[10:53] <Tonio_> Lure: we isn't kdepim built ?
[10:53] <Lure> Tonio_: FF is on Wed/Thu
[10:53] <Tonio_> Lure: I uploaded it on friday....
[10:53] <Lure> Tonio_: you uploaded it?
[10:53] <Tonio_> Lure: yes
[10:53] <Lure> Tonio_: did not come to feisty-changes
[10:54] <Tonio_> OK: kdepim_3.5.6-0ubuntu3.diff.gz
[10:54] <Tonio_> This upload awaits approval by a distro manager
[10:54] <Tonio_> friday
[10:54] <Tonio_> 3PM
[10:54] <Lure> Tonio_: ask on #ubuntu-devel, but there were plenty of uploads today
[10:55] <Lure> Tonio_: can you send me kopete patch - I can work on MSN and Jabber versions then tonight
[10:55] <Tonio_> Lure: there is no patch for kopete
[10:56] <Lure> Tonio_: I thought you mentioned grouowise or something?
[10:56] <Tonio_> Lure: look how the "groupware" plugin works and get the status
[10:56] <Tonio_> that's the way to do it
[10:56] <Tonio_> groupwise yes, sorry
[10:56] <Lure> Tonio_: groupwise is in kdepim or kopete/kdenetwork?
[10:57] <Tonio_> Lure: <Bille> Tonio_: only groupwise is adapted to work with networkstatus in kopete. see how groupwiseaccount inherits from managedconnectionaccount?
[10:57] <Tonio_> from the suse guy that did this for groupwise
[10:57] <Tonio_> Lure: that's in kopete
[10:57] <Lure> Tonio_: thanks, will check this and prepare patches
[10:58] <Tonio_> Lure: <cjwatson> Tonio_: looks like Tollef forgot to let the contents of the queue through after unfreezing feisty
[10:58] <Tonio_> hehe
[10:58] <Tonio_> Lure: I'll had the kmail export patch today too
[10:58] <Lure> Tonio_: ok, great - so it will be through soon
[10:58] <Tonio_> yup
[10:58] <praetor> Tonio_: did the patch work?
[10:59] <Lure> Tonio_: why do we need it? it sounded to me like a feature to be included in upstream first
[10:59] <praetor> i tested it and seemed to work fine
[10:59] <Tonio_> praetor: the networkstatus patch ?
[10:59] <praetor> Tonio_: the kmail one I wrote
[10:59] <Tonio_> praetor: ah the export one ? I need to test
[10:59] <praetor> it naturally doesnt work with imap though
[10:59] <Tonio_> okay
[11:01] <Tonio_> Lure: I'm adding your kdeutils patch
[11:01] <Lure> Tonio_: ok, thanks.
[11:02] <Lure> Tonio_: we also need new kde-guidance snapshot to make it work
[11:02] <Tonio_> yes I will too
[11:02] <Lure> Tonio_: yuriy already fixed wineconfig in svn to at least give you error message
[11:02] <Lure> Tonio_: not sure when mhb will be able to commit grubconfig module
[11:02] <Tonio_> fantastic ;)
[11:03] <Lure> Tonio_: and not clear if we should put wineconfig in separate kde-guidance-wine and only recommend it
[11:03] <Lure> Tonio_: maybe some hard core Linux users will hate to not be able to remove wineconfig from their system
[11:04] <Tonio_> hum.... needs to be discussed
[11:04] <Tonio_> Lure: hardcore users do not use kubuntu :)
[11:04] <Tonio_> they use slackware
[11:04] <Lure> Tonio_: ;-)
[11:05] <Tonio_> Lure: seriously I don't mind what supergeeks think and want, they already have the choice with other distros :)
[11:05] <Lure> Tonio_: even I want to get rid of all Windows dependacies (even though that I need MS Office still)
[11:05] <Tonio_> my concern is my mother and newbies
[11:05] <Lure> Tonio_: yep, but -powermanager was the same concern - people want more flexibility on what they can remove
[11:06] <Tonio_> Lure: which branch for guidance ? I don't remember ;)
[11:07] <Tonio_> Lure: well powermanager is different in my opinion cause people might want to use something that work ontheir config
[11:07] <Lure> Tonio_: it is on trunk: /trunk/playground/base/guidance
[11:07] <Tonio_> Lure: thanks ;)
[11:08] <Lure> Tonio_: it is probably for Riddell to decide what is better - separate package or not - I am leaning towards separate (and only recomend it from kubuntu-meta), but it is not my call to decide
[11:09] <Tonio_> sure, well we'll ask him, but I think I would let it in
[11:09] <Tonio_> Lure: new phrases in guidance ? (sync the po files is a pain so...) ;)
[11:16] <yuriy> Tonio_: Riddell was against making it a separate package
[11:16] <yuriy> though i don't even think it should be included by default
[11:16] <Tonio_> yuriy: okay ;)
[11:16] <Tonio_> that's my feeling too
[11:17] <Tonio_> Lure: I'll write a script to get the po files for guidance..... too painfull to do it currently
[11:53] <Tonio_> Lure: guidance uploaded
[12:08] <Lure> Tonio_: thanks
[12:09] <Lure> Tonio_: I thought that you use some script to get .po files - this is why I never packaged it myself ;-)
[12:10] <Riddell> yuriy: software-properties will be a separate package
[12:10] <Tonio_> Lure: I lost the script, but I just rewrote it :)
[12:10] <Tonio_> Lure: pitty than svn2dist doesn't work....
[12:10] <Lure> Tonio_: I would expect kde has script like that somewher in repo's
[12:10] <yuriy> morning Riddell
[12:10] <Lure> Tonio_: how do they do other tar-ball releases?
[12:11] <Tonio_> Lure: with svn2dist
[12:11] <Lure> Riddell: do you knwo about such script ^^^
[12:11] <Tonio_> Lure: but that doesn't work with python apps....
[12:12] <Riddell> yeah, you need svn2dist to get the .po files out
[12:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: except it doesn't work with guidance ^^
[12:15] <Riddell> it can be made to work, with a bit of persuasion
[12:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure, but well a little bash script does better job :)
[12:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll add the kmail export patch today
[12:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: how about adept, do you want me to include the patches sent to kubuntu-devel ?
[12:17] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'll do adept today
[12:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay :)
[12:17] <Riddell> along with dist upgrade for edgy
[12:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll try to fix the kcontrol issue today, but I've looked over the net, doesn't seem like an easy job...
[12:19] <Riddell> which issue?
[12:19] <Riddell> it works perfect for me
[12:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: kcontrol empty
[12:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: works on herd3 ?
[12:21] <Riddell> yep
[12:21] <Tonio_> hum
[12:21] <Riddell> from the live CD it's all good
[12:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: still broken here, and reported by lots of people
[12:21] <Riddell> what do you have in /etc/xdg/menus/ ?
[12:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have applications-merged and kde-applications-merged
[12:22] <Tonio_> that's the point, everything is correct
[12:22] <Riddell> err, nothing else?
[12:22] <Tonio_> Riddell:
[12:22] <Tonio_> applications.menu    gnome-screensavers.menu  kde-applications-merged  kde-screensavers.menu  preferences.menu  system-settings.menu
[12:22] <Tonio_> applications-merged  kde-applications.menu    kde-information.menu     kde-settings.menu      settings.menu
[12:22] <Tonio_> that's the full list
[12:22] <Riddell> what's in kde-applications-merged ?
[12:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: kde-essential.menu  kde-essential.menu.dpkg-new  system-settings-merge.menu
[12:25] <Riddell> what's in kde-essential.menu and kde-essential.menu.dpkg-new ?
[12:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: kde-essential.menu.dpkg-new is a file
[12:27] <Tonio_> ls kde-essential.menu
[12:27] <Tonio_> kde-essential.menu
[12:28] <_StefanS_> by the way, wasn't the "Settings" menu supposed to be visible in feisty ?
[12:29] <Riddell> _StefanS_: no
[12:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: I already checked all of this....
[12:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: can you give me a tar file of your /etc/xdg
[12:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: I test and compare to check where is the problem
[12:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: looks like an upgrade broke something, matter of dpkg-reconfigure a package probably as it works on a new installation
[12:30] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ok, I just thought you said some days ago
[12:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm trying to purge and reinstall kdebase-data
[12:31] <Tonio_> that can do the trick
[12:32] <Riddell> Tonio_: kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/menus.tar.gz
[12:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks :)
[12:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: apt-get remove --purge kdebase-data && apt-get install kubuntu-desktop fixed the issue
[12:34] <Tonio_> maybe dpkg-reconfigure kdebase-data is enough though...
[12:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay I'll post the fix on launchpad.... that needs testing in an edgy -> feisty upgrade too
[12:35] <Riddell> oh, lots of edgy to feisty upgrade testing to come :)
[12:36] <Tonio_> hehe
[12:37] <Hobbsee> hey all
[12:37] <Tonio_> okay new kicker design in kds, let's go !
[12:37] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: oh?
[12:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll push kwwii's polyester.rc too
[12:38] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: please tell me why you murdered the kopete interface :(
[12:38] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: this is a test
[12:38] <Riddell> Tonio_: you should add polyester to the seeds as well then
[12:39] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: don't you like it ?
[12:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes that's the plan :)
[12:39] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: it's growing on me... i like the colour and style - but it's far too long
[12:39] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: ah...
[12:39] <Hobbsee> ie, seeing too few contacts in the same screen size
[12:39] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I can improve that
[12:39] <Hobbsee> cool :)
[12:41] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: ^ feature request
[12:41] <Hobbsee> yuriy: oh?  what do they look like?
[12:42] <yuriy> or even gaim icons
[12:42] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: hard to do unfortunately
[12:42] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: how so?
[12:42] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: that's requires coding as far as I know
[12:42] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: presumably or replacing the image file.
[12:43] <yuriy> Hobbsee: the little guy in the aim logo. you can see it in kopete if you go to new account.
[12:43] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: maybe yes.... well at the moment I'll work on that contact list ;)
[12:43] <Hobbsee> yuriy: ahhh.
[12:44] <yuriy> yaaawn. procrastination is bad for you
[12:44] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:44] <yuriy> (almost 7am here)
[12:44] <ScottK> Procrastination isn't bad for you.  It's a way of life.
[12:45] <yuriy> heh of course
[12:46] <Riddell> hmm, no word from imbrandon about amarok packages
[12:46] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: for kopete if you want standard contact list, just remove the /usr/share/apps/kopete/images/ in appearance, contact
[12:47] <Hobbsee> Riddell: they're in the archive.
[12:47] <Hobbsee> ScottK: indeed!
[12:47] <Hobbsee> Riddell: there's a new patch out tonight though.  someone will have to add it in.
[12:49] <Hobbsee> fabo: i wonder why the betas of basket were never uploaded on the main page...
[12:50] <yuriy> at least since staying up all night "working" is playing around with blender i can barely complain
[12:50] <Tonio_> http://tonio.homelinux.org/temp/capture14.png
[12:50] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: is that better for you ?
[12:50] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: brilliant :D
[12:50] <Hobbsee> much better :)
[12:50] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: let's go with this :)
[12:51] <Hobbsee> :D
[12:51] <Lure> Riddell: amarok is released
[12:51] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I'm trying right now to determine if the settings have anything to do with the slowdown at logout.
[12:52] <Lure> all: please review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuApps - please add if you think some flagship app is missing
[12:52] <_StefanS_> Riddell: if not, I'm going to look at the image/gray out stuff.
[12:53] <Riddell> _StefanS_: it's working pretty well for me
[12:54] <Riddell> I could just upload it and see if people start complaining :)
[12:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: argh !
[12:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: /home/tonio/.qt/polyesterstylerc
[12:54] <Tonio_> goes in .qt cannot be merged with kds settings....
[12:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll have to patch the startkde, crappy
[12:55] <Riddell> Tonio_: sure it can, lipstikstylerc was in k-d-s
[12:55] <Riddell> install to /etc/qt3/
[12:55] <_StefanS_> Riddell: oh ? no noticably slowdown after you select "Logout" from kmenu ?
[12:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum good indea indeed
[12:55] <Riddell> _StefanS_: not on this machine
[12:56] <_StefanS_> Riddell: Great
[12:56] <praetor> KOffice is not going to be default is it?
[12:56] <Riddell> praetor: not except krita and kexi
[12:56] <praetor> ok good
[12:56] <praetor> i don't think its up to par with OO atm
[12:56] <Riddell> that's what we concluded
[12:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: ho kds already has a qt-rc-files folder.... I never noticed this, shame on me :)
[01:32] <yuriy> why is my ark context menu in french...
[01:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: I can't find how kde sets the number of desktops via the minipager
[01:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: any idea where is that setting ?
[01:33] <Riddell> kdesktoprc?
[01:34] <Riddell> copy your ~/.kde/share and change it and take the diff
[01:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: hehe, done it of course, but nothing changes there
[01:34] <Tonio_> looks external to .kde
[01:35] <Tonio_> I thought it might be writtent at logout, but no
[01:35] <Riddell> can't be
[01:35] <Tonio_> I can't find where is the change....
[01:36] <Riddell> hmm, transparent desktop pager looks quite nice
[01:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: what's this ?
[01:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum do you know any way to check for the filesystem for any file changed ?
[01:38] <Tonio_> I don't know how to do that with linux
[01:38] <Tonio_> easy on windows....
[01:38] <Riddell> don't know of any wkay
[01:39] <Tonio_> right transparent is nice :)
[01:40] <Riddell> curious, the desktop number isn't set anywhere
[01:41] <Tonio_> no..... I can't understand this
[01:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have the transparent setting
[01:44] <Lure> Tonio_: find -newer is your friend
[01:45] <Tonio_> Lure: that checks new files right, not modified files ?
[01:45] <Lure> Tonio_: that checks for files changed newer than specified file
[01:45] <Riddell> -mtime ?
[01:45] <Lure> Riddell: mtime is in days
[01:46] <Lure> Tonio_: just do "touch somefile", do the stuff, "find / -never somefile"
[01:46] <Tonio_> -anewer should help
[01:46] <Tonio_> :q!
[01:46] <Tonio_> oups :)
[01:48] <Riddell> vi user!
[01:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: of course, should I use nano ? ;)
[01:48] <Riddell> everyone knows all Kubuntu developers user emacs
[01:49] <Tonio_> I'm not a coder, so just for text files, emacs is a bit.... too much :)
[01:51] <Hobbsee> Riddell: rubbish!
[01:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: and for unix sysadmins, vi is THE tool, since it is the only one you are sure to find when you are in trouble ;)
[01:51] <Hobbsee> yay, vi!!!
[01:51] <Hobbsee> Riddell: you're outnumbered.
[01:51] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: except for the crappy versoin distributed with ubuntu now
[01:51] <yuriy> yay kate! *gulp*
[01:52] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: vim-tiny ? it is nice !
[01:52] <Hobbsee> Riddell: Tonio_ will add vim proper if you do that.
[01:52] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i dont like it's mode :(
[01:52] <Hobbsee> havent figured out how to easily change it, either
[01:52] <Hobbsee> yuriy: yes, yay kate, nice syntax highlighting :)
[01:52] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: hum, I like it so I use it default
[01:52] <apokryphos> vim has syntax highlighting too :P
[01:52] <apokryphos> but I prefer Kate for longer things
[01:52] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: yes, i use it :)
[01:53] <apokryphos> and Quanta+ for larger web projects
[01:53] <Riddell> Hobbsee: don't do that, he has to build amarok for edgy first
[01:53] <praetor> Tonio_: so true, at work some of the machines I use don't have emacs
[01:53] <praetor> i had to learnt to use Vi :-[
[01:53] <praetor> my University professor had previously taught me the only command in Vi i ever needed to know - how to quit out
[01:54] <Hobbsee> Riddell: he's a nano user.
[01:54] <Tonio_> I loved "joe" when I was a student too
[01:54] <fritsch> Lure: 14_kmilo_powermanager.diff does not work
[01:54] <apokryphos> praetor: yes, the vim/emacs wars are holy battles
[01:54] <fritsch> Lure: this uses the normal dcop interface of powermanager, which is currently broken
[01:54] <Lure> fritsch: you need latest kde-guidance (not released yet)
[01:54] <praetor> nano doesn't exist on every unix either :-[
[01:54] <Tonio_> apokryphos: can be compared to kde/gnome
[01:55] <praetor> so i had to swallow my pride and use Vi
[01:55] <fritsch> Lure: thx very much,
[01:55] <praetor> sigh
[01:55] <Lure> fritsch: should be in soon (already uploaded by Tonio_)
[01:55] <apokryphos> what defaults you should have in vi are almost just as holy :P
[01:55] <Tonio_> or microsoft/respect the users :)
[01:55] <fritsch> Lure: yeah, makes me happy ;-)
[01:55] <Hobbsee> is there any quick way to delete an entire line in nano?
[01:55] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: dd
[01:55] <Tonio_> ;)
[01:55] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i said nano, not vi :)
[01:55] <fritsch> Hobbsee: CTL XQ and open it with vim
[01:55] <Hobbsee> haha
[01:55] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: use vi !
[01:56] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i do.
[01:56] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: just certain crappy machines dont install it by default, so i have to use something while i yell at the owners
[01:56] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: ah with nano !
[01:56] <Hobbsee> yes
[01:56] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: sudo ln -sf /usr/bin/vim /usr/bin/nano
[01:57] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: yes.  assuming /usr/bin/vim actually exists :D
[01:57] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: then nano your file, and dd works, magic :)
[01:57] <fritsch> Hobbsee: but it is ctl K
[01:57] <Hobbsee> fritsch: ahhhh
[01:57] <fritsch> Hobbsee: http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/reu/nano.html <- google helped
[01:57] <fritsch> ;-)
[01:57] <Hobbsee> oh neat.
[01:57] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:58] <fritsch> i don`t like nano it sometimes makes \n in there, when the terminal is not big enough
[01:58] <fritsch> very terrible if you edit config files on a server
[01:59] <fritsch> Hobbsee: something else i can help you? (easy things of course) me does not want to learn xslt and xml for the coming exam
[01:59] <Hobbsee> fritsch: do i want to do my degree in 3 years or 4?
[01:59] <fritsch> Hobbsee: it depends
[01:59] <Tonio_> but talking about editors, the best gui editor I've seen is pspad
[01:59] <Tonio_> unfortunately, windows only
[02:00] <Hobbsee> 3, or 4, and have some of a life?
[02:00] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: pspad?  will have to look on the uni comps.
[02:00] <fritsch> Hobbsee: i had to do this decission, too
[02:00] <fritsch> Hobbsee: and i said: 4
[02:00] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: notepad++ looked pretty good, too
[02:00] <Riddell> Hobbsee: all sensible degrees are 4 years
[02:00] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: pspad is much better
[02:00] <yuriy> ugh validating to strict xhtml is a pain. no wonder people don't do it
[02:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: hehe.
[02:00] <Hobbsee> fritsch: why'd you say that?
[02:00] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: pspad is the only graphical text editor that opened a 1GB file without any problems :)
[02:00] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: *nice*
[02:01] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: your next task:  port it to linux.
[02:01] <fritsch> Hobbsee: i tried to do it in 3 years at the beginning
[02:01] <fabo> Hobbsee: betas of basket are uploaded on the main page
[02:01] <Hobbsee> :P
[02:01] <fabo> Hobbsee: 1.0rc2 released today ;)
[02:01] <Hobbsee> fabo: hrm, okay.  i didnt see them
[02:01] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: http://www.pspad.com/
[02:01] <Hobbsee> fabo: and i'm still not sure that it's nice to require a user to install kdepim just to get basket
[02:01] <Tonio_> nobody interested in helping concerning the minipager ?
[02:02] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i would if i knew...
[02:02] <Tonio_> I will have to read the code.....
[02:02] <Tonio_> :'(
[02:02] <fabo> Hobbsee: if i remember kde 3.5.6 is required ...
[02:03] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i'm looking now
[02:03] <fabo> Hobbsee: if you are a known packager,
[02:03] <fabo> Sbastien Lao
[02:04] <fabo> Laout send a mail
[02:05] <Hobbsee> right
[02:23] <hunger> Was qt updated recently?
[02:23] <Riddell> no
[02:23] <hunger> in feisty?
[02:23] <Riddell> Tonio_: just leave the desktops at 4 for now
[02:23] <Riddell> I like 4 desktops anyway
[02:23] <hunger> Hmmm... suddenly my apps stop to work since the value I put in a QSettings changes type to QString... Yesterday all was well.
[02:24] <hunger> Too bad that you did not update Qt4 recently:-( So I can not blame this on you:-)
[02:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay
[02:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: concerning polyester I'll ping pitty to revu MIR
[02:42] <Riddell> Tonio_: iwj already has
[02:43] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's in "Approved and promoted"
[02:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: great, I was wondering cause that doesnt appear on the MIR page
[02:46] <freeflying> anyone has amd64 machine
[02:46] <Riddell> freeflying: what for?
[02:47] <freeflying> Riddell: a strange problem, a package is lintian clean on my i386 and ppc machine, but has warning on my sponsor's amd64 machine
[02:47] <Riddell> freeflying: rpath?
[02:47] <freeflying> Riddell: ya
[02:47] <freeflying> Riddell: anything special?
[02:47] <Riddell> freeflying: that's always happened, I've never worked out why, but it's not caused any problems
[02:47] <Riddell> happens to all kde packages
[02:48] <freeflying> Riddell: so it's ok for upload?
[02:48] <Riddell> yes
[02:48] <Tonio_> mu ISP is the worst EVER
[02:48] <Tonio_> third disconnection today
[02:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay once it gets in main I'll change the seed and kds to make it the default
[02:49] <freeflying> Riddell: sorry, I can't build kde-356 for dapper now, our mirror is damn :)
[02:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: changing the seeds is the first step, I did it some days ago
[02:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay did you upload the new package too ?
[02:50] <Tonio_> cause polyester is still in universe...
[02:50] <fritsch> Lure: standby, sleep key are working is expected - thx
[02:50] <Lure> fritsch: thanks for testing it!
[02:50] <Riddell> Tonio_: upload what new package?>
[02:52] <Tonio_> new kubuntu-desktop :)
[02:52] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, that needs to be done after it's promoted
[02:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's what I was affraid of ;)
[02:52] <Riddell> Tonio_: so you need to poke pitti to promote it
[02:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just noticed that when you use 2 sessions and logout kde doesn't switch to the first by default
[02:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: that works without kds
[02:53] <Tonio_> something crappy in it..... I have to check this
[02:53] <Riddell> I would expect that to be because of usplash
[02:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: is usplash somehow defined in kds ?
[02:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: I thought it was kde patches only
[02:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: works without kds, that's the strange point
[02:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: only the theme is in kds, is that possible that usplash without any theme reacts differently ?
[02:59] <Riddell> shouldn't be any different
[02:59] <Riddell> but kdm has a patch to change to usplash on logout and that's why it won't go to the other kdm instance
[02:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's my feeling too....
[02:59] <Riddell> but there's shouldn't be any change without k-kd-s
[02:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: I agree but there is :)
[03:00] <Tonio_> without kds that works like a charm...
[03:32] <Jucato> g'night Hobbsee!
[03:32] <Hobbsee> night Jucato!
[03:32] <Jucato> see you tomorrow :)
[03:32] <Hobbsee> maybe :)
[03:33] <Jucato> hahah
[03:33] <Hobbsee> dont know when i'll get back from the hospital
[03:33] <Jucato> O.O
[03:33] <Jucato> you're in the hospital?
[03:33] <Hobbsee> no.  friend is
[03:33] <Jucato> oh...
[03:34] <Tonio_> :'(
[03:35] <qtgeo> I personally want to thank all of u guys for being so focused to get the job done
[03:35] <qtgeo> ....
[03:35] <Riddell> screen is your friend
[03:35] <qtgeo> kubuntu
[03:35] <qtgeo> runs great!!!!!!!
[03:35] <Riddell> you're welcome qtgeo
[03:35] <qtgeo> thanx to underlying debian
[03:35] <qtgeo> guys i never had the chance to work with debian
[03:35] <qtgeo> i was always playing with slack u know
[03:35] <qtgeo> but this time I AM IMPRESSED
[03:36] <qtgeo> u guys DO REALLY know how to make the world round
[03:36] <qtgeo> I RESPECT YOUR WORK
[03:36] <qtgeo> sincerely!
[03:36] <qtgeo> u are the BEST
[03:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, I should consider screen for irc at least
[03:37] <Tonio_> qtgeo: wow, have we been that nice ? :)
[03:37] <qtgeo> yeap!
[03:38] <qtgeo> i have a God damnt notebook which sucks a loy
[03:38] <qtgeo> lot*
[03:38] <qtgeo> but.....with kubuntu everything and anything just runs GREAT
[03:38] <bddebian> Heya
[03:38] <qtgeo> i told u i am IMPRESSED!
[03:38] <qtgeo> THANK YOU
[03:39] <Hobbsee> gt:)
[03:39] <Hobbsee> qtgeo: :)
[03:40] <qtgeo> ;-)
[03:40] <qtgeo> qtgeo is a name with a looong story...
[03:40] <qtgeo> :-)
[04:14] <Tonio_> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6150238690898104187
[04:14] <Tonio_> just love this :)
[04:15] <nixternal> hahhaa
[04:15] <nixternal> you see how dizzy it gets?
[04:15] <nixternal> i just lays there
[04:15] <nixternal> s/i/it
[04:15] <nixternal> I think the Xubuntu guys need that, it almost looks like their logo
[04:16] <Jucato> lol
[04:16] <nixternal> I think I am going to start blogging my homework and see how many people give good answers :)
[04:16] <Jucato> haha
[04:17] <nixternal> dude, I am so rich right now it isn't even funny
[04:17] <Jucato> a simple way to let others do your homeworkf for you :)
[04:17] <nixternal> $3.71 in my checking account right now. come on check, hurry up and deposit
[04:18] <nixternal> I can't pull money from my savings account, because I need that to move when school is done, but I need $$ in my checking account like yesterday :)
[04:25] <Riddell> just sell your links like kubuntu does, kubuntu,org/donors.php has a steady stream of misguided individuals who think it'll do their pagerank good
[04:26] <mstemle> Riddell: Oh, they sell them?  Darn.  I linked to Kubuntu for free ;)
[04:27] <abattoir> lol
[04:27] <mstemle> Ack.
[04:28] <Riddell> someone pretending to be manchicken?
[04:28] <mstemle> one second.
[04:28] <Jucato> lol
[04:28] <Jucato> :)
[04:28] <Riddell> his secret identity revealed!
[04:28] <manchicken> There we go.
[04:28] <Riddell> launchpad even has a hackergotchi now
[04:29] <manchicken> Bloody konversation not reading my mind and selecting the proper nick name.
[04:29] <Jucato> haven't you set it in the identity settings?
[04:29] <DaSkreech> Who's idea was it to a) remove the readout from Bootsplash and B not have a progress bar?
[04:29] <manchicken> Yeah, but I selected the wrong one.  heh
[04:29] <Jucato> lol
[04:30] <Jucato> DaSkreech: it has a progress bar and you can put back the readout by removing "quiet" from the boot option
[04:30] <abattoir> Riddell: hi, just fyi, cjwatson said he'll restructure the backend for oem-config to make it more like ubiquity, so i'll have to wait till he does that
[04:30] <DaSkreech> Jucato: Yeah I've made peace with the quiet option just everytime you install a new kernel you have to redo it
[04:30] <DaSkreech>  No biggie
[04:31] <DaSkreech>  It doesn't have a progress bar btw
[04:31] <Jucato> ??
[04:31] <Jucato> maybe on feisty?
[04:31] <DaSkreech> It has a ball that bounces back and forth
[04:31] <DaSkreech>  after like 15 minutes you start thinking amybe this isn't booting
[04:31] <yuriy> feisty has a progress bar... i just saw it 30 minutes ago..
[04:31] <Jucato> DaSkreech: where are you seeing this?
[04:32] <DaSkreech> bootsplash Herd 3
[04:32] <Jucato> ah...
[04:32] <Riddell> abattoir: in time for feature freeze?
[04:32] <DaSkreech> yuriy: A ball bouncing back and forth tells you nothing about progress
[04:33] <yuriy> DaSkreech: whoa, you're right! when did this happen?
[04:33] <abattoir> Riddell: wasn't very clear about that, but he can get it in after FF if he wants to right? or is it impossible?
[04:33] <yuriy> this is rather xp-esque
[04:34] <DaSkreech> it's very user unfriendly very crytpic and yes very redmondish
[04:34] <yuriy> actually, i feel like i've seen this before, i think it's only the live cd
[04:34] <DaSkreech> Is there a reason for that?
[04:34] <DaSkreech> and can I turn it off?
[04:34] <Riddell> abattoir: sure it's possible, he just has to make an exception with the release manager (who's pay packet he approves)
[04:34] <abattoir> hehe
[04:35] <Riddell> manchicken, Jucato: either of you have blogs?
[04:35] <abattoir> !seen mhb
[04:35] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen mhb - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[04:36] <manchicken> I have one.
[04:36] <Jucato> Riddell: yes
[04:36] <manchicken> http://www.notsosoft.net
[04:36] <manchicken> Set it up Saturday.
[04:36] <Jucato> http://jucato.org/blog
[04:36] <Riddell> manchicken, Jucato: want to put them on planet ubuntu?
[04:36] <manchicken> You may want to review it before including it anywhere ^_^
[04:36] <manchicken> I tend to be political :P
[04:36] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Is yuriy's comment correct?
[04:36] <Jucato> I tend not to stay on one topic (Linux-only)...
[04:37] <Riddell> hmm, yes, it would need a free software feed
[04:38] <Riddell> DaSkreech: about what?
[04:38] <Jucato> Riddell: I probably have to turn down that offer for now... I still haven't figured out how to use wordpress that much, specially with feeds
[04:38] <manchicken> My blog is going to be a combo free software, Nintendo, and my personal rants.
[04:38] <DaSkreech> Riddell: The bouncing bootsplash ball not being installed
[04:38] <manchicken> Probably quite a bit of free software.
[04:38] <Jucato> yay Nintendo!
[04:38] <Riddell> I've never heard of a bouncing bootsplash ball, but I very much doubt I'd like it to be installed
[04:39] <manchicken> Political side though.
[04:39] <DaSkreech> How about ranting on Nintendo not using Free software/ :-)
[04:39] <manchicken> Jucato: Delicious hypocracy :P
[04:39] <manchicken> DaSkreech: I do that, too.
[04:39] <manchicken> DaSkreech: Play it while it's fun, hack it 'till it's free.
[04:39] <DaSkreech> Riddell: teh Feisty CD has instead of a progress bar at bootsplash a ball that bounces from left to right til the CD boots
[04:39] <DaSkreech>  no kernel messages just a boucing abll
[04:39] <Riddell> DaSkreech: ubuntu?
[04:40] <DaSkreech> Kubuntu
[04:40] <Riddell> err, since when?
[04:40] <DaSkreech> I haven't gotten the Ubuntu Cd to bot
[04:40] <DaSkreech>  I think it's a sign
[04:40] <DaSkreech> Riddell: I remember seeing it in Edgy as well but then it went away
[04:40] <DaSkreech> Well I just grabbed herd 3
[04:40] <DaSkreech> yuriy thinks it might be only on the Live CD
[04:41] <Riddell> it's not on any Kubuntu CD
[04:43] <yuriy> it's not a ball... but the bar goes back and forth rather than showing progress
[04:43] <manchicken> Is java6 the GPL'ed version of Java?
[04:43] <manchicken> I see it has a source package in the repo....
[04:43] <manchicken> It'
[04:44] <manchicken> It's coming from multiverse, not restricted.
[04:44] <Riddell>  NOTE: You must accept Sun's EULA prior to successfully installing
[04:44] <Riddell>  this package
[04:44] <Riddell> doesn't sound very GPLed
[04:44] <yuriy> I think java6 is just the next version
[04:44] <yuriy> and i just started using 5 too
[04:45] <manchicken> Oh....  didn't catch that.
[04:45] <DaSkreech> manchicken: it has an OS now?
[04:45] <manchicken> I'm really looking forward to GPL'ed Java.
[04:45] <manchicken> DaSkreech: Who?
[04:45] <DaSkreech> Nintendo
[04:46] <DaSkreech> Riddell: You don't get a bar bouncing back and forth instead of a progress bar?
[04:46] <manchicken> Well, they have a firmware OS.  If you modchip you can stick a GNU OS on it.
[04:47] <manchicken> Man, this wireless card in this windows machine is slow as hell.
[04:47] <manchicken> 28.2kB/s
[04:47] <Riddell> DaSkreech: a bar sounds more probable than a ball, but it should be a progress bar for most of the startup process, only a bar at the start
[04:47] <Riddell> kwwii, sebas: want me to add your blogs to p
[04:47] <Riddell> kwwii, sebas: want me to add your blogs to planet ubuntu?
[04:47] <DaSkreech> Mine just bounces back and forth
[04:48] <DaSkreech> Never ever becomes a true progress bar
[04:49] <Riddell> DaSkreech: well, I never did claim to understand upstart :)
[04:49] <Riddell> seaLne: does your blog have a free software feed?
[04:49] <DaSkreech> This is an upstart issue you suspect?
[04:49] <DaSkreech> Just wanted to stop in here before using Hobbsee's large stick on #ubuntu-devel
[04:50] <seaLne> Riddell: my blog hardly even has any content, let alone categories
[04:51] <Riddell> freeflying: do you have a blog suitable for planet Ubuntu?
[04:51] <freeflying> Riddell: I'm too lazy  :)
[04:52] <Riddell> bah, no decent kubuntu-members blogs
[04:52] <manchicken> Riddell: http://blog.notsosoft.net/articles/free-software/feed/
[04:52] <manchicken> Riddell: That's my Free Software feed.
[04:52] <manchicken> Do rants about proprietary horsecrap devices count as free software posts?  heh
[04:53] <DaSkreech> Sweet I can use oxygen in edgy+1 ?
[04:53] <freeflying> Riddell: kubuntu.wordpress.com, but I haven't blogged  quite long
[04:54] <Riddell> manchicken: sure, but some constructive posts might help too :)
[04:55] <manchicken> The vi questions one was constructive.
[04:55] <Riddell> manchicken: groovy, I'll add that feed
[04:55] <manchicken> I'm also working one one about adept.
[04:55] <sebas> Riddell: Yeah, why not
[04:55] <manchicken> I'm just not sure how to word it.
[04:56] <sebas> A bit more of KDE presence cannot hurt, I guess
[04:56] <manchicken> It seems like despite adept's real functional value, people still love to hate it.
[05:01] <Riddell> bah, kwwii has no hackergotchi
[05:04] <DaSkreech> Ooer :)
[05:08] <Riddell> seaLne: the ones kwwii took?
[05:09] <seaLne> yeah
[05:09] <Riddell> he has them online somewhere
[05:09] <Riddell> mine look terrible, being unshaved and long haired
[05:11] <seaLne> yeah i think i was still hungover when i got dragged to have my piccy taken
[05:12] <manchicken> LMAO
[05:13] <manchicken> There's a downside to having the adblock filters in konq enabled by default.
[05:13] <manchicken> I work for DoubleClick... so I was wondering why one of our internal pages wasn't coming up properly....
[05:13] <manchicken> It's because the filters were turned on by default.  How awesome.
[05:14] <Riddell> they are?
[05:14] <manchicken> Oh yeah.
[05:14] <manchicken> This is a fresh install into vmware.
[05:14] <Riddell> hmm, I'm sure I never approved that
[05:15] <manchicken> I also don't know if it'd be a good idea to go that route. ^_^
[05:15] <Riddell> Tonio_: would you know about this?
[05:15] <manchicken> People should block ads consciously.
[05:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: let me read
[05:18] <mhb> hi all
[05:19] <Riddell> mhb: you don't seem to have a blog?
[05:19] <mhb> Riddell: no, why?
[05:20] <Riddell> just looking to make planet ubuntu a bit more blue
[05:20] <Riddell> ryanakca, allee: either of you have blogs?
[05:24] <manchicken> Riddell: This adept post is going to rock your world.
[05:26] <Riddell> manchicken: you may want to wait until your blog appears on planet, I'm not sure how often they sync
[05:26] <manchicken> Okay.
[05:26] <Riddell> "Your changes could take up to two hours to take effect."
[05:26] <Riddell> not too long
[05:27] <manchicken> I can save without publishing.
[05:27] <Lure> Riddell: I am so boring - nothing to write about ;-)
[05:27] <manchicken> It'll take me a bit longer to write it.
[05:28] <Riddell> manchicken: add screenshots, that makes all the difference
[05:28] <manchicken> I plan on it.
[05:28] <manchicken> I want to do a full walk-through of basic adept functionality.
[05:29] <manchicken> The only thing I won't be able to do is the kubuntu upgrader.
[05:29] <n8k99> manchicken:I'll be happy to make a posting to ubuntu-users about adept as well
[05:30] <manchicken> That sounds neat.
[05:30] <manchicken> Mind will be soooooo much better than yours though :P
[05:30] <manchicken> heh
[05:30] <manchicken> mine*
[05:31] <manchicken> If I could type I'd be dangerous.
[05:31] <n8k99> of course, but I'll get to link to yours!!
[05:31] <manchicken> heh
[05:31] <n8k99> hehe
[05:31] <manchicken> Oooh.  A clever lad this one.
[05:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: afaik the filters are enabled by default
[05:37] <Riddell> Tonio_: since when?
[05:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: edgy
[05:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: we discussed that a while ago
[05:38] <Riddell> hmm, I seem to remember always disapproving of such a move
[05:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah...
[05:38] <Riddell> on the other hand if it has been on since edgy, this is our first complaint
[05:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: let me confirm that it is enabled
[05:38] <Riddell> and it is a nice feature
[05:38] <Lure> Riddell: I think we agreed on meeting to make them ready to be easily enabled (with proper config)
[05:38] <Riddell> yes
[05:39] <Lure> Riddell: but I do not know if this was done, as I am using firefox ;-)
[05:39] <Riddell> bah
[05:39] <manchicken> Should we really have it filtering by default though?
[05:39] <Tonio_> manchicken: I'm checking if it is enabled or not
[05:39] <Lure> manchicken: I think not, but having it preconfigured properly makes sense
[05:39] <manchicken> Having it preconfigured is one thing.
[05:40] <manchicken> Having it turned on is another.
[05:40] <Riddell> it's enabled in /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/khtmlrc
[05:41] <Tonio_> yep I enabled them
[05:41] <Tonio_> I can disabled them if needed, and just let le filters preconfigured
[05:41] <Riddell> well now I'm unsure
[05:41] <manchicken> I know my opinion sounds a little biased, so I'll recuse myself from the discussion, I do think it's a bad idea ^_^
[05:41] <Riddell> it seems wrong to by default change webpage content for our users
[05:42] <Riddell> but we've not had any complaints, and it is nice not to have adverts
[05:42] <Lure> Riddell: last kdebase update complains:
[05:42] <Lure> dpkg: kdebase-data: warning - conffile `etc/xdg/menus/kde-applications-merged/kde-essential.menu' is not a plain file or symlink (= `/etc/xdg/menus/kde-applications-merged/kde-essential.menu')
[05:42] <Riddell> but when kubuntu takes over the world and no adverts are viewed any more manchicken is out of a job and then we're in trouble
[05:42] <Riddell> Lure: force it, it's only a problem if you had the previous build installed
[05:42] <manchicken> Well, and all of your favorite web content goes bye-bye.
[05:43] <Riddell> yep
[05:43] <Lure> Riddell: it is just warning
[05:43] <Tonio_> Lure: yeah I had to --purge and reinstall
[05:43] <Tonio_> Lure: otherwise kcontrol is empty
[05:43] <Lure> Tonio_: so --purge kdebase-data?
[05:43] <manchicken> Advertising is a legitimate way to support your site.. and people should be allowed to choose to block it.  But I don't think it should be enabled OOTB.
[05:44] <Tonio_> Lure: yes, and then reinstall kubuntu-desktop
[05:44] <Lure> Tonio_: will do, thanks
[05:44] <sebas> I think adblock should be enabled by default.
[05:44] <Tonio_> manchicken: I must say I agree with you on that point
[05:44] <Riddell> sebas: rationale?
[05:44] <Lure> Riddell: to be better than others? ;-)
[05:44] <sebas> Most people will want it. I do not know a single user who complained about adblock, ever.
[05:45] <Riddell> other than those who work for doubleclick :)
[05:45] <sebas> And sites that are broken due to adblock are very rare, the default settings are really good.
[05:45] <manchicken> sebas: Do people understand that it's enabled by default?
[05:45] <sebas> Right, cornercase :)
[05:45] <Riddell> sebas: but it hasn't been enabled in KDE by default
[05:45] <Riddell> there isn't even a default list in KDE
[05:45] <manchicken> I don't think people know it's enabled.
[05:45] <sebas> KDE's defaults suck that's why we have Tonio.
[05:45] <Tonio_> sebas: lol
[05:45] <sebas> Stuff like enabling adblock by default is what makes Kubuntu stand out.
[05:45] <Lure> sebas: ++
[05:46] <Lure> ;-)
[05:46] <manchicken> Except that nobody knows it's on, so when things start going stupid they think something else is wrong.
[05:46] <sebas> Ask 1000 random people if they want you to disable 90% of the advertising on the web for them, >90% will answer "Yes please"
[05:46] <Tonio_> FYI, ubuntu and epiphany is bloking by default
[05:46] <sebas> manchicken: There's this filter icon in the statusbar, right?
[05:46] <Tonio_> same list than the one I added
[05:47] <manchicken> sebas: No, that's not for enabling.  That's just for filtering new items.
[05:47] <Tonio_> manchicken: you have to rightclick then "configuration" on the adblock icon
[05:47] <Riddell> it doesn't filter google ads
[05:47] <Tonio_> manchicken: 2 clicks to change the settings
[05:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: depends on the ads, they are filtered here
[05:48] <manchicken> Tonio_: Same two clicks to enable it.
[05:48] <Riddell> oh aye, so they are
[05:48] <Tonio_> manchicken: yes, I said I understand you
[05:48] <Tonio_> manchicken: I don't have any opinion, blocking is nice for the user, just preconfiguring is maybe ethical better
[05:48] <sebas> Hm, maybe this icon should show when adblock is enabled, manchicken
[05:49] <Riddell> I think it should be made more obvious to the user, that filter icon in the status bar should have a tooltip and the dialogue should have an option to disable it
[05:49] <manchicken> Either way, I really don't think a doubleclick employee should be involved in this decision... so I'm going to idle it.
[05:49] <manchicken> I don't think I'm biased, but I can't really let anybody think I am.
[05:49] <sebas> manchicken: I agree there (but I'm biased as well)
[05:49] <Tonio_> manchicken: for example, konqueror or firefox remove popups by defaults
[05:49] <Tonio_> popups are generally ads....
[05:49] <manchicken> sebas: Yeah, but you don't work for the "great satan" :P
[05:50] <sebas> We want to provide a good user experience, not necessarily being fair :-)
[05:50] <Tonio_> and that's worldwide for firefox, nobody complains
[05:50] <sebas> And the user experience for *most* users is _IMO_ better without flashing ads.
[05:50] <manchicken> Tonio_: Popups are often times more malicious than ads.
[05:50] <Tonio_> manchicken: yes, but doubleclick provides popupads right ?
[05:50] <manchicken> sebas: Since flash isn't enabled OOTB, there won't be any of those :P
[05:51] <Tonio_> those are widelly used since they generate far more clicks :)
[05:51] <manchicken> Tonio_: To the best of my knowledge, our terms of service prohibit the use of our ads in popups and spyware.
[05:51] <manchicken> Tonio_: But there was a time when dclk did support those.
[05:51] <Tonio_> manchicken: maybe with doubleclick :)
[05:52] <Tonio_> well I don't have any opinion, I let you guys decide ;)
[05:52] <Tonio_> both are nice in my view
[05:52] <manchicken> Tonio_: Sure.  I'm not arguing for doubleclick.  I'm arguing for people who drop $20/mo on their sites, work for pizza hut, and want to be able to afford to keep running their site.
[05:52] <Tonio_> manchicken: I have a website that lives with ads
[05:52] <manchicken> I have a buddy that gives free website offerings to people.  100% ad-supported.
[05:53] <Tonio_> I had to work for mc donald's to pay the server before ads gave enough money :) I know all of this
[05:53] <Tonio_> but I disable ads even on my own website
[05:53] <manchicken> MySpace, YouTube, all 100% ad-supported.  It's not our job to protect businesses though.  So I'm not sure.
[05:53] <manchicken> I know that many of those ad sites you have blocked serve offensive ads for True dating service, etc., too.  And I always block those.
[05:54] <Tonio_> manchicken: improve the scripts to pass through the filters :) ^^
[05:54] <manchicken> Okay, I'll change my opinion.  If we make it more obvious that it's on, I think enabling the filters by default is a great idea.
[05:54] <Tonio_> manchicken: as I said, just preconfiguring makes sense and I would do that depending what the people here think
[05:54] <manchicken> But not the XP SP2 IE bar.  That was baaaad.
[05:54] <Tonio_> manchicken: hard to have a filter list that just block "offensive" content :)
[05:55] <manchicken> Yeah.
[05:55] <Tonio_> that's the problem
[05:55] <manchicken> I'm actually okay with the list of blocked hosts.
[05:55] <Tonio_> manchicken: regular expressions are the problem
[05:55] <manchicken> Yeah.
[05:55] <manchicken> The banners thing seems a bit much though.
[05:56] <manchicken> /banners/\w*\.\w{3}\?/
[05:56] <manchicken> Oh, that's for subdomains.
[05:56] <Tonio_> yeah, cool one :)
[05:56] <Tonio_> manchicken: it is yes
[05:59] <Tonio_> manchicken: propose the discussion for the next meeting
[05:59] <Tonio_> we'll decide what is the best, with all the people there, by a vote :)
[05:59] <Tonio_> that's the best to do
[06:01] <manchicken> Righto.
[06:01] <DaSkreech> sebas: I'd actually like to make the choice to turn off ads
[06:01] <manchicken> Actually, maybe someone else should bring it up.
[06:02] <manchicken> I'm really concerned about someone thinking I'm acting on behalf of DoubleClick.
[06:02] <sebas> Any defined way to make decisions is better than guessing / staying in limbo. I hate it when progress is not being made because it's unclear who decides and what.
[06:03] <sebas> manchicken: No problem, doesn't everybody love DC? :-)
[06:04] <manchicken> sebas: Love them or hate them, kubuntu should not be company controlled (possible exception for canonical)
[06:04] <manchicken> ^_^
[06:04] <Tonio_> manchicken: you can explain something reasonably, nobody will consider your doubleclick employement
[06:04] <sebas> manchicken: Right, preferably  as little exception as possible.
[06:05] <manchicken> sebas: Agreed ^_^
[06:05] <sebas> It should be controlled by "I'll do this because I care" (and if that I is Canonical, then fine)
[06:05] <sebas> "do this" is work together with the community to improve something of course
[06:05] <manchicken> Tonio_: Yeah, I know.  But I'm also worried that I may actually be biased because of my employment.
[06:06] <manchicken> I haven't worked for a company that didn't make most of its money from advertising in a very long time.
[06:08] <sebas> manchicken: What do you actually do? (Pure curiosity)
[06:08] <manchicken> I'm a Perl hacker.
[06:08] <Tonio_> manchicken: nobody in the kubuntu council will, don't mind
[06:08] <sebas> Aye :)
[06:09] <manchicken> sebas: Perl during the day, C++ during the evening ^_^
[06:09] <manchicken> My Perl hacking supports my C++ hacking ^_^
[06:09] <manchicken> I work for a subsidiary of DoubleClick called "Performics."
[06:09] <sebas> manchicken: I hate Perl, but I'm learning C++ now :)
[06:09] <manchicken> I work on the custom web software that enables their affiliate marketing.
[06:10] <sebas> Otherwise, I'm doing Python stuff
[06:10] <manchicken> Perl is a nice language... but I get my fill of scripting languages during the day.
[06:10] <seaLne> it successfully blanks them
[06:10] <manchicken> Ack, got a conference call in a few minutes.
[06:10] <seaLne> surely thats using similar comands?
[06:10] <sebas> I once, long time ago, had to debug a Perl script by a colleage who was on vacation ... :-/
[06:11] <sebas> That's probably the main reason for my relationship with Perl
[06:11] <Tonio_> seaLne: 1.0 rc5 ?
[06:11] <manchicken> sebas: The Perl debugger works nicely in Emacs, just like gdb ;)
[06:11] <seaLne> yeah
[06:11] <Tonio_> seaLne: how about my --device patch, does it apply ?
[06:11] <sebas> manchicken: lol.
[06:11] <seaLne> rc5 ment getting rid of lots of patches :)
[06:11] <sebas> We're light day+night, I like vim :D
[06:11] <seaLne> Tonio_: yeah
[06:12] <Tonio_> seaLne: as long as you let this one in and the script + desktop files, I'm okay :)
[06:12] <manchicken> That's cool.
[06:12] <manchicken> sebas: Maybe you could answer some of the questions on my blog.
[06:12] <Tonio_> seaLne: let me revu when the package is ready, it would be hard to break the multimedia spec :)
[06:12] <sebas> I know, emacs as well (probably), but it's just those clichees
[06:12] <sebas> manchicken: URL?
[06:12] <manchicken> http://blog.notsosoft.net/2007/hacking/an-gnu-emacs-guys-challenge-to-vi-guys.html
[06:12] <manchicken> Mmm... permalinks....
[06:13] <manchicken> So delicious.
[06:13] <Riddell> sebas: http://planet.ubuntu.com/ :)
[06:13] <sebas> Argh ;)
[06:13] <Riddell> look for the dude with the beardy hackergotchi
[06:14] <sebas> Micheal D. Stemle?
[06:14] <Riddell> that's him
[06:14] <sebas> Ok.
[06:15] <sebas> I'll check it out later, $offline calls.
[06:16] <manchicken> That'd be me.
[06:17] <manchicken> Ooh, I'm up now?
[06:19] <Riddell> all famous
[06:20] <manchicken> Sweet.
[06:20] <manchicken> My traffic is going up as a result.  heh
[06:20] <manchicken> I got two comments since you put it up
[06:21] <manchicken> People can't resist the emacs vi debate.
[06:21] <manchicken> I should have put ads on my site :P
[06:21] <manchicken> Solid gold
[06:24] <seaLne> can anyone else see if they have /dev/scd* root:floppy?
[06:30] <Riddell> not I
[06:47] <seaLne> are there other possible causes for pbuilder to fail but building outside is fine, apart from build-deps?
[06:48] <Riddell> different packages installed?
[06:48] <seaLne> is that different from missing build-deps?
[06:49] <Riddell> well there might be a new version of gcc in the pbuilder that causes a compile problem
[06:49] <Riddell> but generally not at this stage of the release cycle
[06:49] <Riddell> python transition is more of an issue
[06:50] <seaLne> http://www2.duffus.org/tmp/k3brc5.txt
[06:51] <seaLne> ^ if anyone has time to look at the build error
[06:53] <Riddell> imbrandon: so, amarok 1.4.5 is out...
[06:53] <manchicken> This is going to have to be a multipart post.
[06:53] <manchicken> Or people are going to get mad at me for putting a book out.
[06:54] <Riddell> multipart is good, keeps them interested
[07:02] <Riddell> Tonio_: ktorrent 2.1 is out
[07:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: great, will package toonight
[07:04] <Riddell> thanks
[07:13] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I didn't see any issues concerning the kconfig stuff for the logout. It's the effect that takes a few seconds in my configuration.
[07:14] <Riddell> aye, there's a bit of a delay between control-alt-del and the effect starting
[07:18] <_StefanS_> donno if we can live with that
[07:19] <_StefanS_> thats up to you
[07:25] <Riddell> it's faster the second time :)
[07:26] <Riddell> toma: do you think your blog is suitable for planet ubuntu?
[07:26] <toma> Riddell: i will spam them about mailody ;-)
[07:26] <screemo> Riddell: it is ? :)
[07:41] <manchicken> Grumble... ISO_Level3_Shift
[07:42] <Lure> Tonio_: does it make sense to have kopete and amarok in quick launch bar? when you start them the first time, they get in tray anyway...
[07:43] <Lure> Tonio_: it would make more sense to add office apps there (writer, spreadsheet)
[07:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: still no Amarok 1.4.5 packages for edgy?
[07:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: still waiting on imbrandon :(
[07:45] <manchicken> Wow, removing the xorg line fixes thingsw.
[07:45] <apachelogger> :|
[07:47] <nixternal> Kubuntu used I for have real time a long ,Hi
[07:47] <Tonio_> Lure: as I said the content has to be discussed ;)
[07:47] <nixternal> oh wow, I am in the wrong channel being silly
[08:06] <Lure> new fade effect on logout is great!
[08:06] <Riddell> Lure: notice much delay in starting it?
[08:07] <Mez> Riddell, are you going to make amarok .1.3.5 packages for edgy?
[08:08] <Riddell> Mez: we're waiting on imbrandon to wake up
[08:08] <Mez> Riddell, so there will be ? eventually ?
[08:08] <Riddell> yes
[08:08] <Mez> cool
[08:09] <Lure> Riddell: a bit, not much (slightly slower than old effect)
[08:09] <Riddell> _Stefan-S_: seems like a good result ^^
[08:09] <Mez> well I've just spent the last hour trying to calm down a user who's fed up of waiting for feisty and doesnt want to have to wait 6 months for the new things whereas suse will "backport" amarok etc etc ;)
[08:09] <Riddell> Mez: send him to imbrandon :)
[08:10] <Mez> Riddell, I just calmed them down, explained the processes etc etc
[08:10] <Mez> why we do it how we do it
[08:10] <_Stefan-S_> Riddell: good, i'm glad to hear that
[08:10] <Lure> _Stefan-S_: great work
[08:11] <_Stefan-S_> Thanks alot. I always wanted to contribute stuff :)
[08:12] <_Stefan-S_> btw, I'm having a bit of trouble with the buttons for the logout dialog, do you know someone who could help me with putting QPainter onto QPushButton  ?
[08:12] <_Stefan-S_> I mean, its compiling and stuff, but I get no text and pixmaps on the buttons :(
[08:13] <_Stefan-S_> Something with my coordinates I think, probably drawing outside the box.
[08:16] <Riddell> _StefanS_: you need to override paintEvent()
[08:17] <_StefanS_> Riddell: okay..
[08:18] <_StefanS_> It worked fine for QFrame, however.
[08:18] <manchicken> I hate windows...  I really do.
[08:18] <manchicken> Doubt not my hatred.
[08:18] <Riddell> _StefanS_: what did?
[08:20] <_StefanS_> _StefanS_: Drawing retangular box similar to a button
[08:22] <_StefanS_> Riddell: But I was just thinking, It might be better using the QFrame instead, as it can have a flat appearance
[08:22] <Lure> Riddell: are we still interested in the last remaining thing to do from KubuntuFeistyLaptop
[08:22] <Lure> Riddell: Define global shortcut for Power button to present standard logout dialog with Logout/Shutdown/Restart/Suspend/Hibernate options
[08:22] <Lure> Riddell: I think we could potentially do this by changing acpi-support to send dcop call to ksmserver to open shutdown dialog
[08:25] <Lure> apachelogger: can we check active session?
[08:25] <apachelogger> I'm not sure
[08:25] <Lure> apachelogger: but it is a good point to test...
[08:25] <apachelogger> well
[08:26] <apachelogger> we could use --all-users
[08:26] <apachelogger> might workaround the problem
[08:26] <apachelogger> or even --all-sessions
[08:27] <manchicken> Wow, I just got a Ruby zealot trying to flam my vi post.
[08:27] <Lure> apachelogger: but then one user (foreground) might cancel, while other would get it later when it switches to that desktop
[08:28] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[08:28] <apachelogger> needs some testing I guess :)
[08:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: shouldn't we consider promitting basket notepads ?
[08:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: even to work on kubuntu, that would be *very* usefull
[08:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: in my opinion, as it is very little, we should consider shipping with it
[08:40] <Tonio_> Lure: I think you already used basket no ?
[08:40] <Lure> Tonio_: yep
[08:40] <Tonio_> Lure: and do you consider we should ship with it ?
[08:40] <Tonio_> I think that was discussed during edgy dev cycle
[08:40] <Lure> Tonio_: but to some extend it duplicates Notes in Kontact
[08:41] <Tonio_> yes I know that, but it does so much more !
[08:41] <Lure> Tonio_: it is nice and I am sure authors would like some promotion, but I am not sure about how usable it is for typical user
[08:42] <Lure> Tonio_: I think it is more power-user thing
[08:42] <Tonio_> Lure: would be very usefull to handle packages like kds for example
[08:42] <Lure> Tonio_: but afair, ubuntu ships with tomboy, right?
[08:42] <Tonio_> Lure: sure, but it really lacks promotion
[08:42] <Tonio_> Lure: I think yes
[08:43] <Lure> Tonio_: yep, basket is more like tomboy and I agree promotion is nice (like we promote konversation)
[08:43] <Tonio_> Lure: but that cannot be compared
[08:43] <Lure> Tonio_: why not?
[08:43] <Tonio_> Lure: basket is more tomboy + kate over the network
[08:43] <Tonio_> I would say that's tomboy + gobby
[08:43] <Lure> Tonio_: gobby?
[08:44] <Lure> Tonio_: I am unaware about network features
[08:44] <Tonio_> Lure: basket allows to share text files over the network, so that several people can edit it at the same time
[08:44] <Tonio_> that's what gobby does
[08:45] <Lure> Tonio_: so you would put basket on ftp or where?
[08:45] <Tonio_> let me check how exactly it works
[08:46] <Lure> Tonio_: I do not see where this "feature" could be hidden ;-)
[08:46] <Tonio_> Lure: I think it uses it's own protocol, you just connect to a host and choose the project
[08:46] <Tonio_> Lure: let me search
[08:47] <Tonio_> Lure: okay forget this :)
[08:47] <Tonio_> at the moment you can export to html
[08:47] <Tonio_> Lure: the data sharing part is for "some time in the future"
[08:47] <Tonio_> Lure: :'( I thought we finally had an equivalent to gobby
[08:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: is there any emergency concerning amarok ?
[08:48] <Lure> Tonio_: yep, that would be nice
[08:48] <Lure> Tonio_: there is always emergency with amarok
[08:49] <Tonio_> Lure: I mean does update depend on feature freeze ?
[08:49] <Lure> Tonio_: amarok is in feisty, people just ask for edgy
[08:49] <Tonio_> Lure: ah ;)
[08:49] <Tonio_> okay then imbrandon is the man :)
[08:49] <Lure> Tonio_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuApps
[08:53] <crimsun> Herd-3 is very nice, btw
[08:53] <Tonio_> crimsun: except fonts :)
[08:53] <crimsun> just installed it over top of a nine year-old Debian install
[08:53] <Tonio_> crimsun: but yes, herd3 is probably more mature edgy is
[08:54] <Tonio_> Lure: we should create a wikipage for motus concerning the good apps that require packaging
[08:54] <Tonio_> we miss lots of them
[08:55] <Lure> crimsun: and artwork was not even touched yet ;-)
[08:55] <Tonio_> and I don't have time now to package new apps since I'm already maintaining lots of things
[08:55] <Lure> crimsun: wait for kwwii to do it's polish ;-)
[08:56] <Lure> Tonio_: we have such page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates/Kubuntu
[08:56] <Tonio_> oh !
[08:56] <Tonio_> Lure: thanks for the tip, cool :)
[08:56] <Lure> Tonio_: any plans to update knetworkmanager before release (vpn stuff)?
[08:57] <Tonio_> Lure: yes
[08:57] <Tonio_> Lure: I'll probably ive a shot tomorrow
[08:57] <Tonio_> but the point is that we need to get the vpn modules in....
[08:58] <Tonio_> and testing this is quite a bit hard :)
[08:58] <Tonio_> Lure: I can install an openvpn server, but I can't test the sisco thing
[08:58] <Tonio_> s/sisco/cisco
[08:59] <Lure> Tonio_: I have added Candidates link to KubuntuApps
[08:59] <Tonio_> Lure: great
[09:02] <Tonio_> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=52193
[09:02] <Tonio_> Lure: wow !
[09:02] <Tonio_> we should test this ;)
[09:02] <Tonio_> argh, needs xattr on the filesystem.....
[09:03] <Lure> Tonio_: everything needs xattr these days ;-)
[09:05] <Tonio_> Lure: yeah :/
[09:05] <Tonio_> Lure: isa certain way that makes sense, xattr is way better
[09:05] <fdoving> 20:26 <@  fdoving> toma: yes :)
[09:05] <fdoving> ops.
[09:05] <fdoving> sorry bout that.
[09:06] <Tonio_> Riddell, Lure: should I nuke the Konqueror flash plugin installer patch ?
[09:07] <Tonio_> that's very nice for the user, but doesn't deal with packages unfortunatelly
[09:07] <Lure> Tonio_: I do not care about konq as browser... ;-)
[09:07] <Tonio_> Lure: evil guy :)
[09:07] <Lure> Tonio_: not evil, just selfish ;-)
[09:08] <Lure> Tonio_: but you can fix kde open dialogs in firefox if you want ;-)
[09:08] <Tonio_> Lure: hehe
[09:13] <manchicken> Riddell: My Adept post is up.
[09:15] <Lure> kwwii: btw, your polyester simplification is nice
[09:16] <allee> Tonio_: ping me when there's nobody to test cisco vpn.  Our neighbour institute has one.  I assume I can get access there an account via yet another institute.
[09:16] <kwwii> Lure: thanks, tell Riddell that :-)
[09:16] <Lure> kwwii: why? he doesn't like it?
[09:17] <Lure> kwwii: gray background in menu's did not fit well with oxygen
[09:18] <Tonio_> allee: cool ;)
[09:18] <allee> ;)
[09:18] <Tonio_> allee: will ping you if there is something to test :)
[09:18] <kwwii> ;-)
[09:19] <kwwii> Lure: I do not think the bling appealed to him ;-)
[09:19] <Lure> kwwii: he should stick with console then ;-)
[09:19] <allee> Tonio_: make sure it does not rain then.  I can't enter the institute in out-of-work-hour.  So I will have to test in front of the entrance
[09:20] <Tonio_> allee: hehe
[09:26] <Riddell> Tonio_: why nuke flash patch?
[09:26] <Riddell> Tonio_: we have no space on the CD for basket (or anything else)
[09:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: bah it doesn't use deb packages....
[09:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: no upgrade once installed
[09:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: but it works, I agree
[09:27] <Riddell> Lure: yes, that would be nice to have
[09:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll upgrade the xml file for flash 9 then :)
[09:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: kds currently provides flash7
[09:29] <Riddell> Lure: /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh does something, although I'm not sure what
[09:29] <Riddell> Tonio_: oh, please do
[09:29] <Lure> Riddell: yep, will try to play with this
[09:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: ktorrent uploaded
[09:31] <Riddell> Tonio_: add a bullet point to the herd 4 page, (and add bullet point for new logout fade too)
[09:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: which logo fade ?
[09:33] <Riddell> Tonio_: the only amarok emergency is that it's out and we don't have edgy packages
[09:33] <Riddell> Tonio_: log out
[09:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: do we have it in ?
[09:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: I read correctly, but my keyboard is abou to die I think...
[09:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'd like to point out the new logout thing, but with a screenshot eventually :)
[09:37] <Riddell> Tonio_: sure, I'm just saying put them there now to remind us for when it gets properly written
[09:37] <Lure> Tonio_: yes please
[09:37] <Riddell> but if you want to write it I'm sure nixternal would be happy :)
[09:38] <zakame> good morning all
[09:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: hehe, no thanks :) my english is limited for official things
[09:39] <Riddell> hola zakame
[09:39] <zakame> hola Riddell! how can I help? :)
[09:42] <Tonio_> Lure: I'm attempting to build svn knm
[09:43] <Lure> Tonio_: that is talking! ;-)
[09:44] <Tonio_> Lure: hehe
[09:46] <Tonio_> Lure: hard to provide a package with this..... no pot file for example
[09:46] <Riddell> zakame: depends on what your skills are
[09:47] <Riddell> zakame: can you write?  can you programme?  can you fix bugs?  can you help users?
[09:47] <Lure> Tonio_: right, that is what I newer understood with knm...
[09:48] <Tonio_> Lure: I assume they are somewhere, but where.........
[09:48] <Lure> Tonio_: created by svn2dist?
[09:48] <Tonio_> Lure: note that I can use the 0.1 files, and add a pot file for rosetta, but I'm affraid that'll give something very partly translated
[09:48] <Tonio_> Lure: that's for kde only
[09:49] <Tonio_> Lure: since knm isn't on kde svn, that'll not work
[09:49] <Lure> Tonio_: it is in playground (or even extragear)
[09:49] <Tonio_> Lure: yes but that's 0.1
[09:50] <Tonio_> you will not get the svn pot file there
[09:50] <ryanakca> Riddell: I don't have a blog, no... but I'm in the process of having the school "donate" one of their old servers (that has been sitting around collecting dust for the past couple of years) to me... so... probably by next weekend I will 
[09:50] <Tonio_> Lure: it is now on opensuse svn
[09:50] <Lure> Tonio_: really? that is a step back... :-(
[09:51] <zakame> Riddell: well, I'm trying to help out in merging in ajmitch's list of RC-fixed packages... and I have been trying to come up with a way to get run-parts on if-* working for wlassistant, but that won't make it for feisty
[09:51] <Tonio_> Lure: no it is on kde, but the web page is completly outdated :)
[09:51] <Tonio_> http://en.opensuse.org/Projects/KNetworkManager#Source
[09:51] <Tonio_> Lure: indeed that on extragear
[09:51] <Lure> Tonio_: forget documentation, look at source code ;-)
[09:52] <Lure> Tonio_: documentation is always wrong (by definition) ;-)
[09:52] <Tonio_> Lure: okay svn2dist will not work due to the move from kdenetwork to extragear
[09:52] <Tonio_> Lure: but I can use my guidance script to grab them :)
[09:52] <Tonio_> that's okay
[09:52] <Tonio_> let's package !
[09:53] <ryanakca> Riddell: make planet more blue... by? having more kubuntu people have articles/posts/entries on it?
[09:53] <Riddell> ryanakca: yep
[09:53] <ryanakca> Riddell: kk
[09:53] <Tonio_> Lure: it's there : http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/network/knetworkmanager/
[09:54] <ryanakca> Riddell: once I get a server up (or find a nice free hosting place)... I'll try to write up something that's planet-worthy
[09:54] <Lure> manchicken: nice post about adept (even better work on improving it for feisty)
[09:55] <ryanakca> Riddell: anything low-key that I can package tommorow and wednesday (if my teacher let's me work on it, instead of teaching him how to set up an ubuntu server)? (Since FF is on thursday)
[09:57] <Lure> ryanakca: just pick your something from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates/Kubuntu ;-)
[09:57] <ryanakca> Lure: so, that's all low key stuff?
[09:58] <ryanakca> Lure: lol
[09:58] <manchicken> Lure: Much thanks ^_^
[09:58] <ryanakca> Lure: eqonomize was a "just works" packaging attempt... it was easy, everything went smoothly... no problems like I'm having with  SolSeek
[09:59] <Lure> ryanakca: but still work that someone has to do
[09:59] <ryanakca> Lure: what does it need done?
[09:59] <Lure> ryanakca: ManDVD looks cool app: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=38347
[10:00] <Lure> ryanakca: lot's of depends though...
[10:00] <ryanakca> Lure: last time I checked it, it didn't have a Makefile or autotools stuff...
[10:00] <ryanakca> (written in C++ iirc)
[10:00] <Lure> ryanakca: there is ubuntu download - maybe that src can be used as starting point
[10:00] <ryanakca> hmm... that's new 
[10:00] <ryanakca> kk
[10:01] <Lure> ryanakca: but it is 2.2 (latest is 2.4) and there is no source package...
[10:01] <ryanakca> Lure: yeah...
[10:02] <ryanakca> so... what would I do... dpkg -i it, and then apt-cache show manDVD?
[10:02] <ryanakca> (just to get the information like depends from that package)
[10:03] <zakame> ryanakca: or dpkg-deb, hell even pager on the deb itself ;)
[10:03] <ryanakca> pager?
[10:04] <zakame> ryanakca: should default to less
[10:04] <zakame> pager, I mean
[10:05] <Lure> Tonio_: maybe this is what you want in konqueror: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=38915
[10:06] <Tonio_> Lure: it's in already :)
[10:06] <Tonio_> Lure: I added this 4 month ago
[10:06] <Lure> Tonio_: ok, then we need to remove it from Candiates
[10:06] <Tonio_> Lure: yup
[10:20] <Tonio_> Lure: yeah I'm sorry but I can't build a tarball with this
[10:20] <Tonio_> Lure: they are in kdenetwork -> extragear transition
[10:20] <Tonio_> Lure: that's makes the hole thing crappy, po files everywhere, svn2dist not working etc.....
[10:20] <Lure> Tonio_: maybe we should ask on ML what are their plans with release
[10:20] <Tonio_> Lure: I think thoening already thinks about it :)
[10:21] <Tonio_> Lure: I'll ait a bit for the transition to be over, and then if it's okay we can ask for UFV Exception
[10:36] <mhb> it's good to see polyester in main
[10:41] <zakame> hmm where's latex?
[10:42] <Tonio_> Lure: any info concerning the repo manager for adept ?
[10:43] <Riddell> zakame: all over the place, it depends on what you want to do
[10:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: I asked Lure because you seem to be offline for a while :)
[10:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: any info concerning the status ?
[10:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm just looking at the debconf issue
[10:44] <Riddell> Tonio_: software-properties is in NEW
[10:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: great ;)
[10:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: any objection I look at the debconf thing ?
[10:45] <Riddell> Tonio_: go ahead, but would you know where to start looking?
[10:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: yup
[10:45] <Riddell> I doubt it's anything adept specific
[10:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: it is kdesu thing
[10:46] <ryanakca> should I bother looking at Java down the road? or is it one of those icky programming languages that shouldn't be touch with a 10' pole?
[10:46] <Riddell> first thing to check would be if other applications can lauch X apps
[10:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: works with adept used as a user, so the problem is somehow linked to kdesu
[10:46] <Tonio_> when launched as a user, an env variable misses
[10:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: maybe we can force it somehow
[10:46] <Riddell> ryanakca: Java's OK, I just don't have much use for it
[10:47] <Riddell> Tonio_: there is code in kdesu for XAUTHORITY, I'm just not sure what it's doing
[10:47] <Riddell> presumably nothing
[10:47] <ryanakca> Riddell: kk... I'm wondering because I can go to Queens University for a week in May and learn/play around with it if I want to..
[10:48] <Riddell> ryanakca: learning a new language is always beneficial, if only to see how it compares to others
[10:48] <ryanakca> Riddell: kk
[10:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll investigate and try to fix, if I can't, well I'll retry :)
[10:50] <Riddell> it's not made easier by kdesu_stub being C, and I don't get on with C so it's hard to debug
[10:52] <Lure> Riddell: powerbtn needs only one line change to make it work for single user, but it is a problem if multiple users are logged in :-(
[10:52] <Lure> Riddell: problem is that --all-sessions will call dcop call in sequence and logout() is blocking call
[10:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm pretty sure it is just a matter of configuration
[10:52] <Tonio_> not that hard to fix in fact
[10:53] <Riddell> Lure: is there a way to detect if more than one user is logged in and just not ask in that case?
[10:53] <Tonio_>     if (cache::Global::get().packages()
[10:53] <Tonio_>         .packageByName( "libqt-perl" ).isInstalled())
[10:53] <Tonio_>         putenv( "DEBIAN_FRONTEND=kde" );
[10:53] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's notthin to do with that
[10:53] <Riddell> it's XAUTHORITY that's the problem
[10:53] <ryanakca> Riddell: http://esu.queensu.ca/emc2/courses/NPE26.php
[10:53] <Lure> Riddell: yes, --list-sessions can show me list of sessions (just no info which one is active)
[10:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know that, we tested in sunnyvale
[10:54] <Riddell> Lure: so just don't ask if more than one user is logged in, tough luck
[10:54] <Lure> Riddell: so, just do as before?
[10:55] <Riddell> Lure: well do the dcop ask if only 1 user is logged in
[10:55] <ScottK> I just updated my Feisty machine and now I have Quicklauncher buttons for Kopete and Amarok.  Bugs or features?
[10:55] <Riddell> ScottK: blame Tonio_ :)
[10:55] <Lure> ScottK: feature
[10:55] <Tonio_> ScottK: features :)
[10:58] <Lure> Riddell: actually it is worse: dcop does not know is session is active
[10:59] <Lure> Riddell: sorry, I did not check correctly
[11:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have a workarround for adept but that's a bit evil :)
[11:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: use a bash script that xhost + && adept_manager, that works...
[11:01] <Riddell> Lure: doesn't the power button send a keycode that we can use anyway?
[11:01] <Riddell> Lure: just from kmilo or whatever?
[11:01] <Lure> Riddell: only through acpi
[11:01] <Riddell> Tonio_: that was a joke
[11:01] <Lure> Riddell: so no keycode -> keysym
[11:02] <Lure> Riddell: ok, I can do as proposed, I am just concerned that it might confuse users
[11:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes of course, I said that worked during my tests, not I wanted to do this :)
[11:02] <Riddell> Lure: why would it confuse users?
[11:03] <Lure> Riddell: if you have two or more users logged in, it will shudown (no dialog), if only one is logged in it will ask (logout dialog)
[11:03] <Lure> Riddell: this sounds confusing from usability perspective
[11:03] <Riddell> ryanakca: you could fix the amarok install-mp3 script for the new xine package name
[11:04] <ryanakca> Riddell: yeah... I noticed that... that's python, right?
[11:04] <ryanakca> or is it C++ (like the rest of amarok)
[11:04] <Lure> ryanakca: just shell script
[11:05] <ryanakca> Lure: really? I thought C++ (or whatever it is written in) would call apt-get / dpkg directly... that makes it different
[11:06] <ryanakca> Riddell: I'll give it a try... no garantee though... still haven't figured out that k-h-d-m thing yet 
[11:17] <Lure> Riddell: if there would only be a way to map from vt -> X -> kde session -> dcop server
[11:17] <Lure> Riddell: fgconsole provides properly foreground vt
[11:18] <Lure> Riddell: I can get X by 'ps -ef | grep ttyX'
[11:37] <allee> Tonio_: why did you make kipi-plugins-doc depend on kipi-plugins?   IMHO it's suggests (or maybe recommends).
[11:38] <Tonio_> allee: reducing size on the cd ;)
[11:38] <allee> Tonio_: that clear.  I mean you have   kipi-plugins-doc\n ... Depends: kipi-plugins
[11:38] <allee> and kipi-plugins pkg did not mention kipi-plugins-doc at all ;)
[11:39] <allee> Tonio_: I would suggest let both pkgs suggest each other
[11:39] <allee> or maybe kipi-plugins recommend kipi-plugins-doc
[11:40] <Tonio_> yes it chould recommend it I agree :)
[11:40] <Tonio_> allee: will fix this
[11:40] <allee> Tonio_: no need. I'm currently merging kipi-plugins.  so   both suggest each other is fine with you?
[11:41] <Tonio_> allee: yup
[11:41] <allee> okay
[11:44] <allee> nite Lure
[11:46] <allee> Tonio_: to read KDE docs one need khelpcenter, right? So we need to depend on it (for gnome guys)
[11:46] <Tonio_> yup
[11:46] <allee> k
[11:46] <Tonio_> I missed that indeed
[11:46] <Riddell> not if they're HTML
[11:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah... :)
[11:47] <Tonio_> allee: okay forget this :)
[11:48] <allee> Riddell: even html looked brain dead ugly afair.  I check again
[11:51] <allee> Riddell: there's no html. only docbooks
[11:52] <allee> ^^ bug?
[11:56] <manchicken> Riddell: Wow, people are really reading this adept article.  I greatly underestimated the number of people reading planet ubuntu.
[11:58] <zakame> yes, a lot do read
[11:59] <crimsun> imbrandon: amarok 1.4.5-0ubuntu1 has broken collection _creation_ on all three backends (sqlite, mysql, and postgresql). Reverting to Herd-3's 1.4.4-0.3ubuntu4 is known-good for all three collection backends.
[12:00] <crimsun> hell, I wiped a nine year-old Debian install just to chase that one
[12:03] <zakame> crimsun: aww
[12:03] <crimsun> oh I'm not angry; that machine needed a wipe anyhow
[12:04] <crimsun> now to strace amarokapp 1.4.5...
[12:04] <crimsun> and/or ltrace as it were
[12:05] <crimsun> mysql's not getting anything at all, so it's likely localised to amarok itself
[12:10] <apachelogger> no reports from other distros conserning such a problem