[02:53] <Commander-Crowe> who is Metthew West?
[02:54] <Commander-Crowe> haha
[02:54] <Commander-Crowe> East
[02:54] <Commander-Crowe> haha
[02:54] <Commander-Crowe> wrong direction
[02:57] <LaserJock> heh
[02:57] <LaserJock> he is basically the leader of the documentation team
[02:57] <LaserJock> mdke is his nick
[02:58] <LaserJock> although I'm pretty sure he is asleep now ( he's in the UK)
[03:11] <Commander-Crowe> aah
[03:46] <j1mc> do you all use any kind of special software to work with the docbook files for the documentation?
[03:47] <Admiral_Chicago> heya j1mc
[03:49] <j1mc> heya Admiral_Chicago
[03:49] <j1mc> :)
[03:50] <Admiral_Chicago> working on xubuntu doc
[03:50] <Admiral_Chicago> hang out, I'll be back late
[03:50] <j1mc> ok . . .
[03:50] <j1mc> which one are you working on?
[03:52] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm trying to do wikis but not this week, swapped with work
[03:53] <j1mc> hmmm  ok
[04:06] <nixternal> j1mc: any text editor will suffice
[04:06] <nixternal> gEdit, Kate, Bluefish, Vim, Emacs, whatever you want to use
[04:06] <nixternal> if I am going big edits I tend to use Kate, and if I am just going through and fixing stuff and test building I am stuck in vim
[04:18] <j1mc> thanks, nixternal
[04:57] <Commander-Crowe> do you guys think that the use of the word "newbie" or "noob" is inappropriate for the wiki's/docs?
[04:57] <Admiral_Chicago> Commander-Crowe: yes
[04:58] <Commander-Crowe> ok
[04:58] <Commander-Crowe> well I foudn it twice and I changed it
[04:58] <Admiral_Chicago> good, I saw that before but was rushing and didn't get to do it
[04:58] <Admiral_Chicago> Commander-Crowe: we aren't the RTFM community
[04:59] <Commander-Crowe> yeah
[04:59] <Commander-Crowe> I thought so
[05:02] <Admiral_Chicago> good work.
[05:06] <Commander-Crowe> well
[05:06] <Commander-Crowe> I think  I need someone to give me assienments
[05:06] <Admiral_Chicago> you could try to tackle category cleanup
[05:06] <Commander-Crowe> um...ok
[05:07] <Commander-Crowe> where is it?
[05:07] <nixternal> wo0t
[05:07] <nixternal> oops, wrong channel
[05:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83525 in xubuntu-docs (main) "Listed location of "Terminal" is incorrect" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83525
[05:21] <j1mc> woah, ubugtu posted that from launchpad?  sweet.
[05:21] <nixternal> j1mc: have you checked out the documentation repository at all? We use Subversion if you didn't know already. Are you familiar with that?
[05:21] <nixternal> ya j1mc, ubugtu posts all *doc bugs here
[05:22] <nixternal> and posts all bugs in #ubuntu-bugs
[05:22] <Commander-Crowe> subversion, isn't that for XGL/AIGLX themes?
[05:22] <nixternal> Subversion is a version control system
[05:22] <Commander-Crowe> ok
[05:22] <Commander-Crowe> I'll change the bug
[05:22] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository  <- j1mc
[05:23] <j1mc> thanks, nixternal
[05:23] <nixternal> j1mc: maybe our next meeting, or whatever, we can get together and do some doc hacking. I need some motivation every now and then :)
[05:24] <j1mc> i was posting the "bugs in xubuntu-docs" page.  is that cool?
[05:24] <j1mc> doing some docbook hacking sounds good, though.
[05:25] <j1mc> right now i'm just proof reading the docs, though.  just to get started.  nothing fancy.
[05:26] <nixternal> j1mc: as long as it refers to Xubuntu docs
[05:26] <j1mc> nixternal, yep.  that's what i'm working with.  :)
[05:26] <j1mc> btw, thanks for the link to the repository.
[05:26] <nixternal> j1mc: have you talked at all with somerville32? he has been doing some docbook hacking for xubuntu
[05:27] <j1mc> he knows that i'm interested in helping out.  we haven't really talked, though.
[05:27] <nixternal> bbiaf
[05:27] <Admiral_Chicago> yup, cody is the man to talk to
[05:27] <j1mc> there's an irc meeting on a saturday in a week or so.  and i'm going to try and make that.
[05:28] <j1mc> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bugs   that's where i'm posting the xubuntu-doc bugs to.
[05:29] <Admiral_Chicago> yea that seems to be the correct place
[05:31] <j1mc> neato
[05:31] <Commander-Crowe> I can't physically edit the desktop guide
[07:35] <poningru> anyone around?
[07:35] <poningru> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/installing-from-cd.html
[07:35] <poningru> I am looking at the front splash screen of the server install on the latest cd-image
[07:35] <poningru> and I dont see a lamp option
[07:36] <poningru> I am pretty sure they moved that to within the install
[07:36] <tonyyarusso> poningru: It's not on the front spash edgy+, no
[07:36] <poningru> hmm not sure about that
[07:36] <tonyyarusso> It's a checkbox after installing -minimal
[07:36] <poningru> right
[07:36] <tonyyarusso> (I did an Edgy server install, btw)
[07:36] <poningru> ah yeah never did one of those
[07:37] <tonyyarusso> The two options are LAMP and bind servers :)
[07:37] <poningru> yeah thats what I got too in feisty
[07:37] <poningru> I know right
[07:37] <poningru> that would be so cool
[08:01] <Commander-Crowe> docta docta
[06:29] <poningru> anyone around to answer to couple of questions about the server guide?
[06:29] <poningru> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/serverguide/
[06:34] <tonyyarusso> poningru: Maybe?  depends on the question
[06:35] <tonyyarusso> and reasonably quick ;)
[06:35] <poningru> hehe
[06:35] <poningru> sorry
[06:35] <poningru> basically re: the style
[06:35] <poningru> are we going very indepth?
[06:35] <poningru> as in making it a 'howto'
[06:36] <poningru> or are we just skimming the surface and giving an overview
[06:36] <tonyyarusso> Well, I haven't had a chance to go thoroughly through the current version online, but I can say this:
[06:36] <poningru> for example
[06:36] <poningru> mhmm
[06:38] <poningru> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/serverguide/C/network-file-system.html which is just an overview/brief howto as opposed to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpNFSHowTo
[06:38] <tonyyarusso> I bought the version as of Dapper from Lulu.  And, I found it a bit sparse.  It's great to have a quick overview kind of thing, but I was hoping with the mindset that people who will bother to buy a "server guide" probably need and want a fair bit of information.  I think it would be way cool (and a lot of work) if there were like two sections, where the current guide is in the front, and each piece says something like (see page 127 of 
[06:38] <poningru> yeah and I dont think it would be that much of a work either
[06:39] <poningru> since most of the info is already in the wuc/huc(community)
[06:39] <LaserJock> you are welcome to write it
[06:39] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: I know :)
[06:39] <tonyyarusso> I'd _love_ to be doing more on this sort of stuff, but my formal education is getting in the way, if you know what I mean.
[06:39] <tonyyarusso> poningru: that's a good point though
[06:40] <tonyyarusso> I (personally) like the option of being able to get computer things in print as well, or at the very least available offline.
[06:40] <poningru> yeah same here
[06:40] <LaserJock> me too
[06:40] <tonyyarusso> I have actually in the past downloaded a mirror of the entire wiki for that purpose, but having a well-organized book is even better.
[06:41] <tonyyarusso> (I have dialup at home, so always being connected is not possible)
[06:42] <poningru> 0.0
[06:42] <poningru> entire wiki over dialup??
[06:42] <poningru> crazy
[06:42] <tonyyarusso> It might be a good idea to print them separately actually, so you could spend the $6 on the current guide, or $25 for a big whomping one.
[06:42] <tonyyarusso> poningru: ;)
[06:42] <tonyyarusso> It's actually not that bad.
[06:43] <tonyyarusso> I think it came to 100 MB (far better than the 700 MB ISO I had to get first).
[06:43] <tonyyarusso> And since it's just text, you can bzip2 it down to 11 MB and store it on a thumb drive easily.
[06:43] <tonyyarusso> or at least you could at the time - it's larger now
[06:44] <poningru> hehe
[06:44] <poningru> yeah I'll say
[06:45] <tonyyarusso> poningru: So, in summary, I think we should _both_ skim the surface with an overview and have some sort of "supplement" that goes in-depth, that you can get additionally at your option.
[06:45] <poningru> but all the quality is in huc(community) anyway
[06:45] <poningru> tonyyarusso++
[06:45] <poningru> serverguide_indepth ?
[06:46] <tonyyarusso> something like that
[06:46] <tonyyarusso> well referenced from the short version of course
[06:46] <LaserJock> why don't you guys just start by sending patches into the mailing list?
[06:47] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: I need to learn how first for one thing...
[06:47] <tonyyarusso> :P
[06:47] <LaserJock> well, there you go, a place to start :-)
[06:48] <tonyyarusso> yup
[06:50] <tonyyarusso> wow...I'm so glad I have an eye doctor appt soon.  bleh
[08:33] <alefteris> Hi everyone! Is there a new version of the firefox welcome page for feisty? I would like to translate it, so where can i get the latest version? thanks
[08:37] <mdke> we haven't changed anything from the last version yet
[09:16] <willvdl> what's a good docbook editer that can do automatic indenting?
[09:16] <mdke> willvdl: bluefish?
[09:16] <LaserJock> doesn't vim/emacs?
[09:16] <willvdl> ah yes, you mentioned that before
[09:17] <willvdl> what is the preferred indent? 4 space tab or spaces?
[09:17] <mdke> we don't have one, afaik
[09:17] <willvdl> what's your preference? :)
[09:18] <mdke> I don't have one, afaik
[09:18] <LaserJock> that's right, appease the doc god ;-)
[09:18] <willvdl> :P
[09:25] <nixternal> I stopped using tabs, instead I use seperation between tags
[09:31] <willvdl> nixternal, not with you. what seperation do you use?
[09:54] <stelis> willvdl: We spoke about the idea of an Edubuntu Install Guide last week, and I've since knocked together a draft/proof-of-concept: http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/edubuntu-quickstart.html
[09:56] <nixternal> willvdl: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml
[09:56] <nixternal> see that, that is how I seperate
[09:56] <willvdl> stelis. ambitious :)
[09:56] <nixternal> it makes the text longer, but that doesn't matter, easy to read, as well as I use a ton of comments <!-- blah --> so in case I ever leave someone should be able to pick right up
[09:56] <stelis> It's actually stitched together from draft Handbook sections...
[09:57] <willvdl> nixternal gotcha. quite readable
[09:57] <willvdl> stelis, which drafts are you using?
[09:58] <stelis> Mine :)
[09:58] <willvdl> ok, we need to talk then :)
[09:58] <stelis> I wrote a Install section, but haven't caught up with
[09:58] <stelis> oops
[09:58] <stelis> Anyone who seemed upto date on Edubuntu docs
[09:59] <willvdl> good news
[09:59] <willvdl> have you got svn access on the doc-team repo?
[09:59] <stelis> http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/
[09:59] <stelis> That directory holds all my DocBook drafts
[09:59] <stelis> No
[10:00] <willvdl> OK, lets think of a way to merge efforts
[10:00] <nixternal> ahh, I see stelis grabbed the files from teh old layout. p1-*, p2-* and so on
[10:00] <stelis> I wandered in to IRC just before Xmas, was away for a while, and haven't really gotten into the swing of things
[10:01] <willvdl> ultimately, we want to be in line with doc-team structures
[10:01] <stelis> Yes. I asked after Xmas, and nobody could tell me what the latest was
[10:01] <stelis> OK
[10:01] <willvdl> you've got content, that makes me happy :)
[10:01] <stelis> I've noticed that SVN has moved around
[10:01] <nixternal> hrmm, we have to look at the licensing there, is Edubuntu using GFDL? Ubuntu docs and such switched to CC-by-SA, but I will leave that for another conversation
[10:02] <nixternal> stelis: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
[10:02] <willvdl> nixternal edubuntu-docs should use what ever ubuntu docs uses
[10:02] <stelis> nixternal: The layout is borrowed from LDP, and I'll change the license
[10:02] <nixternal> that is where you want to work from stelis
[10:02] <nixternal> willvdl: if Edubuntu docs decides to use CC-by-SA then stelis will need to relicense his docs in order to be merged with the current
[10:03] <nixternal> stelis: roger
[10:03] <nixternal> I hate to switch from GFDL, but that isn't my choice :(
[10:03] <stelis> The GFDL has serious issues
[10:03] <stelis> Sadly
[10:04] <nixternal> and so do all of the CC licenses
[10:04] <stelis> Yup
[10:04] <nixternal> CC licenses are useless because they reinvented the wheel imho
[10:04] <willvdl> OK. I have no idea what licence edubuntu dcs is on
[10:04] <willvdl> but it makes sense to stay in line with doc-team
[10:04] <stelis> Fedora went with the OPL, because counsel said that they felt that that could enforce it
[10:05] <nixternal> willvdl: GFDL currently
[10:05] <stelis> And that it went the criteria for a free license
[10:05] <stelis> went > met
[10:06] <willvdl> either way, makes no sense for edubuntu-docs to have a different licence
[10:06] <nixternal> granted I get confused with some of the legal mumbo jumbo
[10:06] <willvdl> how do I change it?
[10:06] <stelis> I'm fairly easy with WRT docs licenses
[10:06] <nixternal> willvdl: I will go through then and change the licensing to match Ubuntu docs then
[10:06] <willvdl> thanks
[10:07] <nixternal> stelis: did you write the quickstart from scratch pretty much?
[10:07] <stelis> It's all my content
[10:07] <willvdl> stelis, it should be relatively simple to get you svn access to docteam repos, then at least we're all working in the same place
[10:07] <nixternal> it looks good, the code is clean as well
[10:07] <stelis> Assembled from the draft sections that I hadn't managed to get reviewed
[10:07] <stelis> Sorry if that was unclear
[10:08] <stelis> willvdl: That would be helpful
[10:08] <nixternal> well, you are definitely an asset in my eyes right now. I/We could definitely use a lot more help with the Handbook, and the talent is definitely there
[10:08] <stelis> FWIW, the idea of the Quick Start is the same as the Getting Started page on the Web site
[10:09] <stelis> Only cleaned up/ updated/expanded
[10:09] <nixternal> stelis: the easiest way to get access is to first commit patches that show you know your code, you know how to patch and work with svn, and then when mdke feels good about it, he will put in for you
[10:09] <willvdl> and reminds me of jsgotangco's idea for a quickstart guide
[10:09] <stelis> I wanted something that I could give to people who know nothing about Edubuntu
[10:10] <stelis> That would get over the installation hurdle
[10:10] <stelis> There are FIXMEs where screenshots should go in the DocBook
[10:11] <willvdl> nixternal, ubuntu could benefit from an installation guide too I reckon
[10:11] <stelis> I've got raw PNGs, but don't know how to format them (correct resolution etc.)
[10:11] <willvdl> stelis, there are folks who will
[10:13] <stelis> Well I can probably ImageMagick them to whatever the right format is - I'm just missing the info
[10:13] <willvdl> just drop a mail on the doc-team list and I'm sure you'll get the right response
[10:13] <stelis> OK, will do
[10:14] <willvdl> stelis, if you could help out with the handbook we'd be greatly appreciative
[10:14] <stelis> I'm happy to.
[10:15] <willvdl> excellent, I'm busy organising what's currently been done on it
[10:15] <willvdl> there is an old wiki section at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
[10:15] <willvdl> which is out of date but still got some useful info
[10:16] <willvdl> and then there is the handbook in the repo
[10:16] <willvdl> I'll also move the planning/project management pages over to the doc-team wiki pages
[10:17] <willvdl> (I _Still_ haven't had time to do that)
[10:18] <stelis> These are the source for all the bits and pieces that I've done: http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/handbook/
[10:18] <stelis> source > sources
[10:19] <willvdl> based on edgy?
[10:19] <stelis> They built when integrated with the old handbook SVN
[10:19] <stelis> Yes.
[10:19] <willvdl> cool. MY only setback is getting feisty changes in in time
[10:20] <stelis> I've yet seen any differences (that would impact this stuff anyhow)
[10:20] <stelis> haven't yet
[10:20] <willvdl> well LDAP authentication etc. will impact things
[10:21] <stelis> I looked through the packages and I don't think I saw anything for that
[10:21] <stelis> I know that ogra was keen to add somthing
[10:21] <willvdl> speak to oli on the status
[10:21] <Burgwork> stelis: that is currently up the air, due to tools shaking out
[10:22] <stelis> OK.
[10:22] <willvdl> Burgwork, there is a concerted push to make sure it's there
[10:22] <Burgwork> well, ajmitch has to deliver his part
[10:25] <willvdl> stelis, pop by the edubuntu meeting tomorrow and we'll see how we can progress
[10:26] <stelis> willvdl: 20:00 UTC?
[10:26] <willvdl> I think tomorrow is 12:00 UTC
[10:27] <stelis> :(
[10:27] <willvdl> what's your timezone?
[10:27] <stelis> GMT
[10:27] <willvdl> ah. mid-day
[10:27] <stelis> No IRC access at work (firewalls)
[10:27] <willvdl> bummer
[10:28] <stelis> I can be around on IRC tomorrow evening
[10:28] <willvdl> I gotto crash. exhausted. see y'all later
[10:28] <stelis> Cheers