=== bdmurray [n=bdmurray@c-24-21-235-175.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === torkel_ [n=torkel@69-188.umenet.t3.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pochu [n=pochu@179.Red-88-7-169.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tsmithe` [n=tsmithe@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@e180100135.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:43] Burgwork: (late) no timeline for 0.3.7, i don't think [12:43] Amaranth: ok, just wondering === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DAC51.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lfittl [n=lfittl@213.129.230.10] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === firephoto [n=tom@pool-71-115-214-25.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:10] hello [01:10] does the network-admin in FF support wpa etc for wireless auth ? other than just plain ole wep [01:12] network-manager does for some cards. you probably want to ask those questions in a supportchannel as #ubuntu in the future. [01:12] null_: ^ [01:12] ok ill check there [01:15] if all else fails, you can edit /etc/network/interfaces and add WPA information by hand -- see /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.modes.gz [01:15] if all else fails, you can edit /etc/network/interfaces and add WPA information by hand -- see /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.modes.gz === Plow [n=plow@85.99.136.209] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508DAC51.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman [i=gman@nat/sun/x-4c408f01e1c175e2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lukaswayne9 [n=lukas@c-68-84-69-12.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jack_wyt [n=jack@211.154.174.45] has joined #ubuntu-devel === damo22 [n=Andrew@203-214-151-2.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === damo22 [n=Andrew@203-214-151-2.perm.iinet.net.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === segfault [i=segfault@core-dumped.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-79-61.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === FantasticFoo [n=dgm@user-118bo71.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:40] nobody knows the answer on the normal #ubuntu channel, so i'm asking here, sorry for the stupid question: [02:40] anyone know what ubuntu edgy package the "X development libraries" are in? [02:41] FantasticFoo: xlibs-dev? [02:41] Hobbsee: thanks! :) === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Liberis [n=myname@host157-205-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:54] hi [02:54] i sign a bug [02:54] in ubuntu === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Liberis [n=myname@host157-205-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === null_ [n=null@g624-9034.itee.uq.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman is now known as GmanAFK === lfittl [n=lfittl@213.129.230.10] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pochu [n=pochu@179.Red-88-7-169.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aSt3raL_ [n=eric@71-35-121-20.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cprov [n=cprov@monga.dorianet.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aSt3raL_ [n=eric@71-35-121-20.tukw.qwest.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] === segfault [i=segfault@core-dumped.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:18] c [04:32] Is posting a link to a main inclusion proposal in ubuntu-devel-discuss required, or is it only if discussion is needed? [04:36] it's probably a good idea [04:37] LaserJock: Ok, thanks === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.6.225.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fbond_ is now known as fbond [05:03] LaserJock: you ever seen Ubuntu loose the shutdown/restart buttons before? anyone for that matter? [05:03] nixternal, that happened to me :) [05:04] pochu: hwo did you fix it? [05:04] nixternal, sorry, not that, I lost hibernate and suspend [05:04] :( [05:04] hrmm [05:04] similar [05:04] ok [05:04] starting g-p-m [05:04] it wasn't started [05:04] because a bug [05:04] ahh [05:05] nixternal, that bug was fixed a week ago or so, I think [05:05] ya, this is with an Edgy system I believe [05:05] oh, I'm talking about Feisty :) [05:05] bug? [05:05] I had him dpkg-reconfigure to see if that did anything, but it didn't [05:06] It very well could be, but he has no clue what he was doing when it started, and now it is always like this. He can't shutdown or reboot from the GUI [05:06] nixternal: I mean, bug number? :) [05:06] ahh, he hasn't filed one I don't believe [05:07] nixternal, is he running a laptop? [05:07] desktop [05:07] no problem on my edgy :) [05:07] ya, same here [05:08] nixternal, don't you know if that is logged anywhere? [05:08] I haven't seen it before [05:08] this is a first I have heard of it [05:08] me too :) [05:11] nixternal, do you know the command to show the "turn off" menu? [05:11] can't say that I do, I am from the Light Side, i.e., KDE :) === nixternal hides [05:12] :p [05:12] nixternal, you wanted to say the Dark Side ;) === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:12] :D [05:12] no no, this is the dark side :) [05:13] hehe === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DAC51.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:15] my lord, the fix was easy [05:15] Menu: System > Administration > Login Window [05:15] In the "Local" tab of "Login Window Preferences", make sure that "Menu Bar: Show Actions menu" is checked. === asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asac_ is now known as asac === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === brainsik [n=brainsik@adsl-75-52-253-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === brainsik [n=brainsik@adsl-75-52-253-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AstralJava [n=jaska@cm-087-94-053-172.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === GmanAFK is now known as Gman === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-devel === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm66.omega20.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mayday_jay [n=mayday_j@maydayjay.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rob [i=rob@freenode/staff/rob] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stu1 [n=stub@ppp-58.8.14.91.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robb_ [n=robb@pool-71-163-244-36.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marilize [n=marilize@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shenki [n=shenki@ppp147-183.lns2.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:05] Good morning === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:10] hi folks! morning pitti :) [08:10] hi siretart [08:11] pitti: I just uploaded a gxine which build depends on firefox-dev *urg*. ugly, but builds cleanly in my main-only chroot :/ [08:11] siretart: great [08:11] ulgy, because this way you need firefox instealled in the chroot [08:11] siretart: it needs that to build a firefox plugin, I figure? [08:11] pitti: right [08:11] siretart: well, ffox, xulrunner, no big difference for a chroot, is it? [08:12] build depending on xulrunner is much less to install [08:12] that's one reason darren does this in debian right now [08:12] but well, if there's no xulrunner in feisty/main, then so be it === Lathiat [n=lathiat@ubuntu/member/pdpc.basic.lathiat] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stdin_ [n=tez@unaffiliated/binary2k2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:25] <\sh> moins === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robb_ [n=robb@pool-71-163-244-36.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shackan [n=shackan@151.53.3.101] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:40] my main network is broken again :/ I'll work offline for a bit and come back later === nnonix [n=brad@xeon.bkjohnson.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos [n=carlos@163.pool85-48-166.static.orange.es] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Solarion [n=solarion@cruftix.physics.uiowa.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dous [n=dous@209.190.9.168] has joined #ubuntu-devel === glatzor [n=sebi@p57AEE21D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman is now known as GmanZZZ === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Nuscly [n=nuscly@29-231.206-83.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Spads [n=spacehob@host-87-74-37-172.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=tobias@pd95b0676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cypher1 [i=cypher1@nat/hp/x-bcd829facc36d8bf] has joined #ubuntu-devel === segfault [i=segfault@core-dumped.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ctd [i=ctd@incubus.progsoc.uts.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=markus@a89-182-16-175.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Sky_walkie [n=root@193.85.244.121] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Sky_walkie [n=root@193.85.244.121] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jumpula [i=jussi@smooth.piipiip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:43] is the list of requirement for multiverse packages around somewhere? [09:43] +s === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-42-226.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:45] jumpula: Must be legally distributable. That's about it. === vinboy [n=vinboy@125-238-81-21.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Sky_walkie [n=root@193.85.244.121] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rc-1 [n=rc-1@ip68-229-102-1.hr.hr.cox.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === Sky_walkie [n=root@193.85.244.121] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Sky_walkie [n=root@193.85.244.121] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [09:54] cjwatson: did you had some time to look at the fuse issue (no binary of the latest version for i386 & amd64) === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vinboy [n=vinboy@125-238-81-21.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:58] infinity: so, what would i need to do to get some packages in multiverse? :) [09:58] the motu pages talk mainly about universe [09:59] jumpula: MOTU handles multiverse as well. [09:59] jumpula: It's "Universe without free licenses". [09:59] okay [09:59] so the procedure is the same? [09:59] Yes. === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F757D6.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:01] good morning [10:04] givre: A quick poke leads me to the very scientific conclusion that the binaries "just effin' disappeared", and I'm unclear as to why. [10:04] givre: I'll poke a bit more for forensic reasons, then requeue the builds on those arches. [10:06] so, basicly all i need to do is to upload the package for revu [10:07] infinity: ok, thanks. === mvo [n=egon@p54A672C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:08] and (if i undersootd correctly) in multiverse, there are no limits to that that the software has to compile under the that release of ubuntu it's put in :) === sky_walkie [n=hrdlo@193.85.244.121] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:08] seems i do many typos today.. [10:11] sfllaw: isolinux.bin> we use whatever the current syslinux package in the archive is [10:12] givre: infinity's better-placed to investigate this than I am anyway, as a buildd admin, so I'm glad he beat me to it. :) [10:13] givre: for the record, though, I didn't touch a computer between your previous request and your request just now ... [10:13] infinity: they seem to be in /srv/launchpad.net/builddmaster/failed-to-move/ [10:13] infinity: what's that directory for, anyway? === tfheen [n=tfheen@aine.err.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tfheen grumbles at file systems. [10:13] tfheen: it's the power connector [10:14] cjwatson: For complete and utter bustication. I didn't even look there, as I'm used to it not being populated. [10:14] Treenaks: no, not this time. [10:14] jumpula: packages in multiverse do still have to be distributable legally; that's a limit that for some reason many people forget === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:14] jumpula: so, for example, stuff with incompatible licensing can't even go in multiverse [10:14] cjwatson: It seems to be more populated recently than I'm comfy with. Perhaps something to get Team Soyuz to poke at, if you've not already alerted them. [10:14] tfheen is back again! [10:14] I haven't. I only just noticed [10:15] I have absolutely no clue what it's for [10:15] dholbach: until my raid is finished fsck-ing at least. [10:15] tfheen: how large is it? [10:15] Treenaks: 2.6TB [10:15] so it's tfheen for another week :) [10:15] cjwatson: the licencing is not the problem [10:16] just that the build system is vary debian sarge specific [10:16] *very [10:17] cjwatson: Basically, failed-to-move means the queue processed it correctly (as an accept, reject, whatever), then the final step (moving it in the filesystem) blew up. [10:17] cjwatson: Which... Shouldn't happen. [10:17] cjwatson: So there's clearly an ugly bug staring us in the face here. === tormod [n=tormod@138.131.206.196] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:19] cjwatson: Can you bring it up with cprov when he wakes up? I'm dangerously close to quitting for the day. [10:19] jumpula: the only reason to put something in multiverse is licensing. Stuff doesn't go in multiverse just because it's low-quality. [10:19] infinity: sure [10:19] and there is no exceptions? === KaiL [n=KaiL@p548F4BCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:20] jumpula: if it's low-quality, it just shouldn't be in the archive [10:20] jumpula: no, that's the entire purpose of multiverse [10:20] multiverse == universe but not free [10:22] i see [10:22] infinity: "disk full" would be a foolish guess I guess? ;) [10:24] ogra_: hi, do you have the new dia on your TODO? [10:24] ogra_: if you are busy I can have a look at it [10:27] Chipzz: rename(2) shouldn't fail because the disk is full ... [10:27] not on the same fs anyway [10:28] Oh, unless the directory had to grow to accommodate it I guess. But regardless, I don't think drescher's disk has quite filled up recently. It's been close, but ... [10:28] /dev/cciss/c0d0p1 558550928 495834352 34343780 94% / === vinboy [n=vinboy@125-238-81-21.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:29] making gdm store its socket to /var/run (instead of /tmp) is fine in all case or need some special consideration (like /var/run is available on any system)? [10:29] /var/run should be fine [10:29] ----r-S--- 1 root root 4 2007-02-03 09:58 system-tools-backends.pid [10:29] what the heck sort of permissions are those [10:32] cjwatson: weird indeed === tormod [n=tormod@138.131.206.196] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] === twilight [n=twilight@ubuntu/member/twilight] has joined #ubuntu-devel === herzi [n=herzi@p548FDA3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:52] doko: if you have a bit of time, can you help me finding out why http://librarian.launchpad.net/6336405/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-amd64.glom_1.3.6-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ftbfs? [10:53] dholbach: Seems pretty self-explanatory. [10:54] dholbach: int and ssize_t are not guaranteed to be equal, they're mismatched types. [10:54] infinity: when I looked at the code, I didn't quite see what to do [10:54] dholbach: Fix the code to use consistent types, I suppose. [10:55] dholbach: Which, granted, may require reading enough of it to figure out which type to standardise on. [10:56] that doesn't really help me, but I'll try something [10:56] dholbach: If that's too vague, I'll let you bug doko to help you fix it while I go off and do something more like Not Work. :) [10:56] infinity: enjoy it :-) [10:56] infinity: does such a thing exist for you? === Zdra [n=zdra@204.214-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:03] I've promoted libx86 to main on the basis that an earlier version of the code was already in usplash, so it's just a split-out === xerxas [n=r67894@AGrenoble-257-1-156-225.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-137-28.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mantiena [n=mantiena@ctv-84-55-5-49.init.lt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:11] Hi all === Zdra_ [n=zdra@166.101-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm66.omega20.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel === segfault_ [i=segfault@core-dumped.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@67.Red-81-39-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:22] doko: upstream is working on a patch, so no need to look at it === dholbach hugs doko === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm66.omega20.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givr1 [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-14-4.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:34] iwj: your rendezvous stuff, etc seems to have broken cryptsetup volumes. [11:34] cjwatson: hi, do you have some time to talk about gfxboot-theme-ubuntu package ? [11:34] tfheen: Go on ... [11:35] iwj: apparently, the mount.crypt call returns before the devmapper device exists. [11:35] Hrrrrrm. [11:36] iwj: it should be trivial to reproduce if you install libpam-mount and cryptsetup and follow the instructions in libpam-mount's README.Debian for setting up an encrypted volume which is mounted on login. [11:36] I don't think it's relevant, but the backing volume for the encrypted file system is an evms volume. [11:37] That doesn't sound relevant. [11:37] The rendezvous stuff is specifically to prevent this from happening. [11:37] iwj: maybe libpam-mount needs fixing too? [11:37] Err, I doubt it. The rendezvous wait is done in libdevmapper. [11:38] I'll investigate. [11:38] thanks. [11:38] do you want a bug about it too? [11:38] infinity: doing a rebuild, are we? :p [11:38] tfheen: bug> Not unless you feel the need. [11:39] iwj: as long as it gets fixed, I'm happy. :-) [11:39] Keybuk: there's one scheduled now, so yes, I'd assume so. === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:42] mantiena: depends; what do you want to know? === Spads [n=spacehob@195.248.90.24] has joined #ubuntu-devel === glatzor [n=sebi@p57AEE21D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zdra [n=zdra@166.101-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:45] pitti, seb128: either of you fancy poking software-properties through NEW? [11:46] Riddell: I'll do archive processing in a few min [11:46] I'll give you a hug when you do :) [11:47] good ;) === cypher1 [i=cypher1@nat/hp/x-553ac72ce9434c82] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:48] pitti: ping [11:48] hey carlos [11:48] hey [11:52] yes for software-propoerties! [11:53] cjwatson: I wanna ask why there are lots of almost identifical strings in .po file ? [11:53] iwj: I noticed in an upgrade today that everything which calls update-initramfs (volumeid, udev) is installed, complaining about devmap_name not existing, and then libdevmapper1.02 is installed [11:54] iwj: seems that there's a risk that upgrades might never end up with devmap_name in the initramfs [11:54] cjwatson: "^Start or install Kubuntu" , "^Start or install Ubuntu", "^Start or install Xubuntu" ,etc [11:54] cjwatson: why do not use just one string "Start or install %s" ? [11:55] mantiena: because they might be translated differently in different languages (because 'Ubuntu', 'Xubuntu' and 'Kubuntu' all start with different letters) [11:55] mantiena: because they're all needed in different CDs, and your solution doesn't work [11:55] mantiena: "Ubuntu" is transliterated in a number of languages, for instance [11:55] cjwatson: Hrm. [11:55] In Korean it is [11:56] In Hebrew it is [11:56] cjwatson: Did the Recommends support spec not get implemented ? [11:56] In Macedonian it is [11:56] cjwatson: this is not a problem, we can have strings "Ubuntu", "Kubuntu", "Xubuntu etc in .po file [11:56] mantiena: for every possible case variant etc.? I don't think so. I'd much rather do it this way, thanks. [11:56] I suppose I could have the dmsetup postinst run update-initramfs. [11:57] mantiena: assembling strings at run-time is generally not a good idea. [11:57] iwj: even with the Recommends spec, I don't think it guarantees configuration ordering [11:57] cjwatson: ok, but now translators need do a lot of job manually :( [11:58] mantiena: it's only a few strings; they have huge numbers more than that [11:58] seb128: Are you around? I wanted to talk about AboutUbuntu if you have time. [11:58] cjwatson: and also there are very easy to make a mistake [11:58] iwj: dmsetup doesn't seem to have been installed in this run, only libdevmapper1.02 [11:58] mantiena: I'm sorry, but I am not going to change this. [11:58] cjwatson: Configuration ordering isn't necessary. I suppose what's happening is that apt is configuring udev (say) before dmsetup has been installed. [11:58] cjwatson: I think I'll change it to a Depends. [11:58] cjwatson: OK, it's a not big problem for me :-P [11:58] iwj: oh, I don't have dmsetup installed at all [11:59] this was just an update-manager upgrade [11:59] Harrmpfh. [11:59] bless you [11:59] Oh well, dmsetup is very small. People will just have to live with having it. [12:00] cjwatson: Btw, if you don't wanna change this, then please tell me what would be correct way to add new string "Start or install Baltix" to .po fiile ? [12:00] mantiena: there's an add_text command in po/bin/ [12:00] cjwatson: simply adding new string to .pot and .po files doesn't help :( [12:00] StevenK: sure, what about it? === thom [n=thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:01] seb128: I wanted it to appear in the System menu, as About Ubuntu if it's installed, but it seems the System menu is static from my investigation. [12:01] mantiena: obviously you need to change isolinux.cfg to match [12:01] StevenK: it is [12:02] StevenK: gnome-panel can be patched to do that though [12:02] I'm also wondering if losing the Ubuntu page in Firefox is a good thing... [12:02] (Launching About Ubuntu will just show the about box, evidently) [12:02] mdke: ping about help menu change, is your help control center ready to be used (ie: can we drop the help submenu now)? [12:02] cjwatson: yea I understand this, but there are another problem - because there are no string "Start or install %s" in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu I can't have line "start or install Baltix" translated to all languages :( [12:03] StevenK: if you have better than the firefox page feel free to point it ;) [12:03] mantiena: you couldn't anyway, because of the above transliteration problem [12:03] seb128: Well, okay, let me explain myself better. === heno [n=henrik@ubuntu/member/heno] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:03] mantiena: another reason why this needs to be translated manually is that translators need to select suitable non-clashing accelerator keys [12:03] mantiena: you can't do that automatically [12:04] cjwatson: there are no transliteration problem for Baltix - Baltix in all languages is Baltix :-P [12:04] well, not within the .po framework anyway [12:04] mantiena: hahaha bzzzt [12:04] :) [12:04] mantiena: that's what I thought about Ubuntu [12:04] mantiena: but it is NOT TRUE [12:04] seb128: Currently About Ubuntu fires up firefox will a whole bunch of information about Ubuntu and etc. If it's changed to run AboutUbuntu, all that information isn't there at all. [12:04] s/will/with/ [12:05] cjwatson: Just curious, but how did you find out all of the translations for Ubuntu? [12:05] mantiena: you will also find that some languages decline Baltix into different cases [12:05] mantiena: whether you want them to or not [12:05] StevenK: I thought you were suggesting an extra item, not to replace the "About Ubuntu" [12:05] StevenK: is there a spec about that? [12:05] Sure [12:05] StevenK: long and painful experience; translator contributions; web-searching in some cases [12:06] Eek [12:06] mantiena: generally speaking I try to avoid this problem by not mentioning "Ubuntu" at all, but the boot loader screen is one place where I still feel it should appear [12:06] seb128: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/about-ubuntu === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:07] StevenK: I still don't know how it works in a number of languages. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributionDefaultsAndBranding [12:07] cjwatson: ok, thanks for info, I already know what I should do :) [12:08] I will make new package - gfxboot-theme-baltix, which will be based on gfxbtoot-theme-ubuntu but will remove several language, which are not suported by Baltix (Baltix is only for European countries, not for India/Africa or China/Taiwan :) [12:09] this will improve an usability - in Ubuntu therea re too many languages in gfxboot menu ... [12:09] I tested opensuse and noticed, that in suse there are 2x less languages === jwest-- [n=unidenf@unaffiliated/jwest/x-422957] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:10] I suppose that's one attitude to usability [12:10] "make it not usable at all by half the planet" [12:11] must be nice to have that luxury ;) === jamesh [n=james@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:12] cjwatson: yea, but don't forget, that Baltix is soft of local distro [12:13] cjwatson: most of the planet can use another distros :) [12:13] like I say, must be nice to have that luxury [12:13] Ubuntu doesn't, so I don't think it's really fair to criticise this as a usability defect in Ubuntu === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:14] given that it's something we've explicitly tried to target [12:15] mvo, Riddell: could you fix the debian/copyright for software-properties? it states "Upstream Author: Michiel Sikkes " and doesn't mention anybody else where the source files have "Copyright (c) 2007 Canonical Ltd." (and some other years variant) and "Copyright (c) 2006 FSF Europe"? [12:16] Oh bummer. [12:16] I see what the problem is and it's going to be tedious to fix. [12:16] oh meh, he said he'd fix the FSFE thing [12:16] cjwatson: I did several usability tests with non IT people and noticed, that some people simple don't find needed language when press F2, because this list is veeerryyy long... [12:17] iwj: sorry. :-) [12:17] cjwatson: for Ubuntu it's pretty hard to solve such usability problem, but for Baltix it's simple - just remove unsuported languages :) [12:17] cjwatson, pitti: what should we do with software-properties? That's source new, it's splited from update-manager which should be correct but the debian/copyright has wrong copyright holders [12:17] cjwatson: debian-installer also has same problem [12:17] tfheen: ^ [12:18] seb128: if it's problematic, notify the uploader, cc ubuntu-archive and reject the package. [12:19] can I be lazy and do the "ping mvo on IRC, wait on a fixed upload and accept that one" to avoid the reject mail? ;) === geser [n=michael@ubuntu/member/geser] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:19] seb128: sure, that works too. [12:19] ok, thanks [12:19] seb128: I fix this now [12:19] seb128: but please don't leave the package there after today if he doesn't get around to fixing it. [12:20] mvo: thank you [12:20] since pitti might then come along and spend time on it, which is wasteful [12:20] tfheen: I expect mvo or Riddell to fix it quickly, looks like Riddell waits for it for some kubuntu work [12:20] mantiena: *shrug* this is a usability problem I'm entirely content to have [12:20] tfheen: right, makes sense [12:21] cjwatson: yea, but I'm very happy now, that you help to find the best solution for Baltix :) [12:23] I've tested Ubuntu Edgy and latest Feisty on lots of new laptops in local compuiter shop and noticed several computers, where Ubuntu doesn't start at all [12:23] some of them starts only when I add some special boot parameters, like noapci [12:23] s/apci/apic [12:25] Computer sellers will never use Ubuntu, if in lots of cases they will nedd to write some boot parameters, which they newer know (and don't want to know) [12:25] Are there any way to tix such problem in the right way ? [12:25] file bugs [12:25] mantiena: Yes. That's why we have a bugtracker. [12:25] seb128: uploaded [12:26] mvo: thank you [12:26] mjg59: I know this, I have best Karma in Launchpad from Lithuanians ;) [12:28] cjwatson: agains which package I should file bugs ? For example in one laptop Ubuntu works fine until X triest to start, when X tries to start Ubuntu gets frozen (even CapsLock doesn't work) [12:28] but when I use noapic boot parameter then such problem dissapears [12:29] Probably the kernel. I'm guessing it'll be a drm issue. [12:29] it's either the kernel or X; I'd go for the kernel [12:29] this is on HP Pavilion dv6103 [12:29] but in text mode I don't notice any problems [12:30] as mjg59 alludes, bits of X's functionality actually live in the kernel [12:30] cjwatson: so, against which kernel should I file bugs ? this bug is in all ubuntu versions, ( I tested with 5.10, 6.06, 6.10 and latest feisty) [12:30] the latest one that manifests the problem [12:31] cjwatson: thanks === pkl_ [n=phillip@lougher.demon.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:32] btw, anybody knows how Microsoft solves such problems ? I've notices, that Windows starts on almost all laptops, while linux has lots of problems with new ones [12:33] mantiena: eh, laptop manufacturers test with windows before release? [12:34] tfheen: when doing syncs we the LPUID to use is the one from the ubuntu-dev member who approved the request (when the bug has been opened by some random user), right? [12:34] and windows isn't designed to work on such a wide variety of hardware [12:35] elmo, stin : yea, it seems you are right, but users think, that Windows is better designed, because more hardware works without problems with Windows === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:36] it seems we have only one way from this situation - to force hardware manutacturers like HP to tests hardware with Linux before releasing new hardware to the public [12:36] mantiena: we can't force them to do anything [12:36] seb128: yes [12:36] heh, good luck with that mantiena :P [12:36] cjwatson: ok, just wanted to be sure, thank you ;) [12:38] elmo: we can - for example we can recommend only "good" hardware manufacturers on our web pages, etc :) [12:39] mantiena: no. that doesn't force them to do anything [12:39] seb128: yes. [12:40] elmo: for example all new and old IBM/Lenovo laptops, which I tested worked fine wth Ubuntu, it seems they are testing with Linux or maybe simply manufacturing better hardware... [12:40] mantiena: No, they're just managing not to hit the bugs in Linux that some other vendors do [12:40] but there was lots of problems with ASUS, ACER and DELL [12:41] in this weekend we tested more than 70 new laptops [12:41] I've had very few problems with my Dell [12:41] :) [12:41] those that I have had have turned out to be simply bugs and been fixed [12:41] cjwatson, tfheen: and what flag is required to sync from experimental? "-C experimental"? [12:41] this is an ongoing process, and is part of why Canonical now employs four kernel developers [12:41] but you can't fix it just by complaining about it, and there is no magic bullet === Hobbsee notes mantiena sounds like a mac user. [12:42] Hobbsee: hehe, no, I'm not a mac user, I'm simply local Linux developer ;) [12:42] seb128: yes === sahin_w [i=kvirc@nat/hp/x-2f5798e0d8290718] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:42] "if it doesnt work, dont officially support it" [12:42] tfheen: thanks [12:42] iwj: I've just read UdevDeviceMapper spec again. From the reading, it seems that this would also be suitable for having crypto support. What changes on the cryptsetup side would be needed to enabling a crypted root filesystem? [12:43] cjwatson: hehe, it seems Canonical will become very big soon ;) [12:43] siretart: obtaining the password [12:43] cryptsetup already uses usplash, doesn't it? [12:44] Fujitsu: I disabled it again [12:44] Keybuk: yea, very few Dell laptops had problems, not like Acer or ASUS [12:44] tfheen: in fact it didn't like it, -S experimental seems to work fine [12:44] siretart, aw... [12:45] seb128: IIRC, -S is --from-suite and -C --from-component [12:45] so -S would make more sense [12:45] but I haven't looked at the source i months [12:45] elmo: right, it worked with -S apparently [12:45] (experimental is a suite or 'distrorelease' in LP terms) [12:45] seb128: oh, sorry. -S as elmo says. I still mess up those terms. [12:48] Keybuk: the way I say it seems that it should just work. however, I have users mailing me patches for fixing this :/ [12:48] Keybuk: I'll forward you the email [12:49] it should work, yes [12:49] the entire point of the udev-* specs was to eliminate the races that were stopping things from working [12:54] mail forwarded [12:55] infinity: did you find the blackhole that eat fuse binary package ? === TeTeT [n=spindler@modemcable178.77-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:00] whoa, the merged casper actually boots. On first try. [01:00] and kqemu isn't all bad. === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:01] siretart, I'll check today without my patch what actually is wrong with latest cryptsetup initramfs [01:01] hile: that would be great! [01:01] not now, I'm at work ;) [01:01] hile: see also what Keybuk sad at 12:43 [01:02] tfheen: not sure if you're the right person to ask about this; gnome-speech won't build at 0.4.8 because it now depends on espeak, which was seeded to main but hasn't actually made it in there yet [01:02] siretart: What Keybuk says. It should work but it all gets rather asynchronous so you have to think carefully about how to do it. [01:03] For example, you have to not perpetrate a race like I did yesterday. [01:03] heno: just a second, I'll promote it. [01:03] yay! [01:03] iwj: yes, I imagine. See the mail from hile I just forwarded you [01:04] iwj, basically the problems I have seen are that the /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/cryptroot script is run before sata device nodes are created === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-40-222.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:04] heno: promoted === heno needs to test our utterly redesigned speech synthesis stack before feature freeze :) [01:04] tfheen: thanks! [01:04] and if it does not wait for the node somehow, you can't ask passphrase either [01:05] heno: it needs a publisher run before it's published and I only just missed this one, so it'll be visible in about an hour and a half or thereabouts. [01:05] hile: Right. The right answer is usually now not to wait for the node explicitly, but rather to have everything triggered from udev. [01:05] tfheen: that's great, thanks [01:05] hile: Do you know at the start of boot that you're going to be doing cryptsetup ? [01:06] If so ask for the password then - before udev gets started - and run cryptsetup later. [01:06] yes [01:06] that's one possibility, yes [01:07] For mdadm I fudged it to run the local-top script from udev. That was a bit nasty because it's very heavyweight and the initramfs /scripts/functions expects to inherit stuff from the initramfs init script. [01:07] But if you actually know what this stuff is supposed to do and what parts of the no-doubt crazy complex config script are actually relevant, you can probably rework it more sanely. [01:07] Eg for lvm I just run vgscan and vgchange from udev. [01:08] The right way would be a udev rule which triggered on any relevant block device and then checked if the cryptsetup base device name was present. [01:08] so, first udev rule for 'run cryptsetup when device x appears', that's fine, but how does the 'where is my root device!?!' part be done? is it already automatic? [01:08] That's automatic. [01:09] cryptsetup will give it a name and there's a thing waiting for the root fs to appear. [01:09] It'll mount it and get going as soon as the device node appears. [01:09] You probably don't want to encode the cryptsetup base device name in the udev rule because udev rules are hairy and you'd end up having to modify it. [01:10] iwj, for cryptsetup, there is a file conf/conf.d/cryptroot which tells anything needed for the setup, for example: [01:10] target=sys,source=/dev/sda2,key=none,lvm=sys-root,lvm=sys-root [01:10] Right. [01:10] no idea why this has lvm=sys-root 2 times ;) [01:10] So you have a udev rule which calls /sbin/check-for-cryptsetup-source-being-there which is a script which looks to see whether sda2 exists yet. [01:11] and since root=/dev/mapper/sys-root the root mounting part will wait for it to appear? [01:12] I mean, in a asynchronous system, how does mounting the root device itself happen if it does not exist when first called? [01:13] oh didn't read what you said, sorry [01:13] hile: Right, that part is already taken care of :-). [01:14] hile: NB that you have to stop your bootloader translating root=... into major/minor (which lilo did to me!). I don't know what grub does. [01:14] well, if we are going to go async with cryptsetup, it needs more work.. siretart, I think for current synchoronus version we still could apply my patches until it has been replaced completely with the async version [01:14] hile: `current synchoronus version' does what ? [01:15] waits for the source=/dev/sda2 appear, runs cryptsetup on it and maybe vgchange if it's lvm === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm66.omega20.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:15] works perfectly fine, current version is just missing the 'wait for device node' loop [01:16] Oh, right. Well yes you can add that as a kludge if you like. [01:16] I like the async solution better as well, in long term [01:17] Mind you if anything else takes the same approach you might lose. lvm and md are asynch now but if there are several synch thints they might have to be run several times in various orders. [01:17] s/thint/thing === segfault [i=segfault@2001:5c0:80ac:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:17] cjwatson: I don't find add_text command nor in gfxboot nor in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu package :( [01:17] ipw, you are so right ;) [01:18] siretart: here in .sa weekend starts today, and I have no party to go - maybe I'll try writing the async script tonight [01:18] hile: ok. my inbox is open for you :) [01:19] ;) [01:21] mvo: you are developer of update-manager and software-proterties ? [01:22] Firefox's Most Annoying Bug Of The Day: when you type into a text box, it drops down the list of previously typed options and *highlights* the top one, so when you press ENTER you get the top option, not what you typed [01:23]