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| ogra | @schedule | 01:21 |
|---|---|---|
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 08 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Feb 21:00: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00: Technical Board | 01:21 |
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| mdz | morning | 04:33 |
| fabbione | hey mdz | 04:36 |
| dholbach | heya mdz | 04:36 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | ||
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| mdz | cjwatson,doko,sfllaw,pkl,tkamppeter,asac,mvo,Riddell,iwj,kwwii,ogra: ping | 04:57 |
| cjwatson | yo | 04:57 |
| ogra | pong | 04:57 |
| asac | here | 04:57 |
| doko | here | 04:57 |
| mvo | hello | 04:57 |
| === ogra imagines cjwatson with a basecap | ||
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| fabbione | mdz: sfllaw is on his way | 04:58 |
| Riddell | good afternoon | 04:59 |
| mdz | cjwatson: heard from till? | 04:59 |
| mdz | Keybuk: ian and ken? | 04:59 |
| === kylem waves. | ||
| sfllaw | Pong. | 04:59 |
| ogra | till was around in -devel earlier | 05:00 |
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| cjwatson | (cjwatson) Henrik: "sudo AT-SPI looks like it's finally happening, but needs a fix in /root/.orbitrc"; can we do that some other way to avoid having to change dotfiles in /root? | 05:00 |
| Keybuk | they're both here | 05:00 |
| cjwatson | I'm dropping that off the agenda because I noticed it was discussed by e-mail already | 05:00 |
| Keybuk | where here =~ seen them online this afternoon | 05:00 |
| mdz | cjwatson: see -devel | 05:00 |
| mdz | ah | 05:00 |
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| heno | cjwatson: yes, he discussion is in full flow upstream again | 05:00 |
| iwj | Hi everyone. | 05:00 |
| mdz | ok, let's get started | 05:01 |
| heno | we should go with a user work around and wait for it to get fixed properly (of course it still affects ubiquity badly) | 05:01 |
| mdz | cjwatson: Tim isn't here today, right? | 05:01 |
| cjwatson | no, holiday; that's noted on the agenda | 05:02 |
| mdz | agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070208: | 05:02 |
| mdz | cjwatson: let's put that at the top in the future | 05:02 |
| mdz | and I'm here :-) | 05:02 |
| cjwatson | mdz: sure, I'll edit the template | 05:02 |
| === pitti waves to the mdz-vac-bot | ||
| mdz | er, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070208 (no trailing punctuation) | 05:02 |
| mdz | are there any additions or deletions to/from the agenda? | 05:03 |
| Keybuk | gnargh! | 05:03 |
| Keybuk | COLIN, PLEASE OBEY WIKI LOCKS | 05:03 |
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| cjwatson | huh? I see no lock errors | 05:04 |
| cjwatson | perhaps I missed it, if so sorry | 05:04 |
| Keybuk | np; you just did it twice in a row to me :p | 05:05 |
| BenC | FYI, ogra is listed twice on wiki, once with "NO REPORT..." and once with a report | 05:05 |
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| fabbione | BenC: once for each of ogra's personalities | 05:05 |
| Keybuk | I suspect ogra added it himself | 05:05 |
| mdz | ok, taking the agenda as-is | 05:06 |
| Keybuk | ogra: you're most welcome to participate in the meeting, but please do get your report in by the end of Wednesday -- we pre-edit the agenda and send it out; if you add it yourself, people may not see it | 05:06 |
| ogra | yeah i did | 05:06 |
| mdz | "New Archive Team" has no name attached to it | 05:06 |
| ogra | Keybuk, yes. i'll be on time next week, really sorry for that | 05:06 |
| mdz | er, wrong agenda | 05:06 |
| Keybuk | mdz: errrr | 05:06 |
| mdz | asac: your agenda item? | 05:06 |
| mdz | (asac) Alexander wants to go over his firefox packaging changes with Ian. | 05:06 |
| cjwatson | that was one I added on asac's behalf to ensure that that got done soon | 05:07 |
| iwj | asac: Sure, how about right after this meeting ? | 05:07 |
| mdz | sounds like something the two of you could take care of out of band, rather than in this meeting | 05:07 |
| cjwatson | (since it was in his report) | 05:07 |
| cjwatson | it certainly doesn't need to happen in the meeting | 05:07 |
| mdz | ok | 05:07 |
| Keybuk | ACTION iwj and asac to talk about firefox packaging changes | 05:07 |
| asac | iwj: actually I am not here today :) ... I will upload it and we can go through it tomorrow? | 05:07 |
| iwj | asac: OK. | 05:07 |
| mdz | sounds good | 05:07 |
| mdz | the sooner the better | 05:07 |
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| asac | fine ... actually I am quite optimistic that we get patches sorted out | 05:07 |
| iwj | asac: Sure but I'm away tomorrow ... | 05:08 |
| asac | there is only one major patch we might really get trouble getting upstream approval for | 05:08 |
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| asac | the thai patch | 05:08 |
| iwj | Let's take these details offline. | 05:08 |
| asac | iwj: weekend? | 05:08 |
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| mdz | asac: yes, that's come up with upstream already. need to connect the person who wrote it with upstream to get it into shape | 05:08 |
| mdz | next agenda item: Will the following specs make release? (Scott James Remnant, Colin Watson) | 05:09 |
| asac | mdz: fine. Can you CC me, so I know the author? | 05:09 |
| mvo | asac: thep wrote it, hes around quite often in irc | 05:09 |
| Keybuk | right | 05:09 |
| Keybuk | iwj: your spec update didn't include any estimate of whether winmodem-support or automated-testing-deployment might make the release? | 05:09 |
| Keybuk | what's the status of those two specs? | 05:09 |
| iwj | automated-testing-deployment> Is largely decoupled from the release cycle. So since it wasn't urgent for feature freeze it got put on hold at Keybuk's request. | 05:09 |
| mdz | asac: mvo should have his contact info; I don't have it to hand | 05:09 |
| asac | mdz: ok ... noted ... will ping mvo | 05:10 |
| Keybuk | *nods* the udev-* stuff was higher priority -- but if you started on that now, would you complete it before the release? | 05:10 |
| iwj | winmodem-support> It is now evident that it won't make the release. I've been chasing after udev breakage the last day or two when I had hoped to be fixing up and promoting sl-modem-daemon. | 05:10 |
| mdz | iwj: even so, there's little potential to benefit from it for the release unless it's deployed soon | 05:10 |
| iwj | mdz: Indeed. | 05:10 |
| iwj | Although one benefit will be for security testing. | 05:10 |
| cjwatson | How long would winmodem-support take, out of curiosity? | 05:11 |
| tfheen | and we'll be gearing up, not down as we get closer to the release. | 05:11 |
| iwj | cjwatson: I spoke to mjg59 and I got the impression it was just a matter of putting together existing stuff in a slightly sane way. | 05:11 |
| iwj | I can get automated-testing running here out of cron with a week's work or so if I don't do anything much else that week. | 05:11 |
| mdz | I said the same thing about it in November. | 05:11 |
| iwj | mdz: Right, but I have the hardware now (since last week). | 05:12 |
| Keybuk | ok, otherwise your specs are now in good order; thanks especially for taking on some of the work from me | 05:13 |
| iwj | NP | 05:13 |
| Keybuk | udev-mdadm didn't take you as long as you feared? | 05:13 |
| Keybuk | (or is the spec status in LP wrong?) | 05:13 |
| mdz | if that's true, we will get more value out of automated testing than winmodem-support, since it should benefit a larger proportion of users | 05:14 |
| iwj | udev-mdadm was more straightforward than I feared but less easy than the spec said :-). | 05:14 |
| mdz | but winmodem-support is worth pushing in late if it's not too intrusive for users who don't have the hardware | 05:14 |
| iwj | Keybuk: LP> Oh, I probably forgot to update the status. | 05:14 |
| Keybuk | good. the testing spec is the most important one to get done next, as that will be useful in the shortest time scale | 05:14 |
| fabbione | iwj: next week i am going to stress test the udev-* on the systems i have home that suck at bringing up disks at a normal speed | 05:14 |
| Keybuk | and as mdz just said, we should also get winmodem-support in, even past FF | 05:15 |
| tfheen | mdz: I would want it properly regression-tested so we don't end up loading modules which destabilise the system, since loads and loads of laptops have winmodem hardware. | 05:15 |
| iwj | mdz, Keybuk: Can I get you two to agree on priorities so know what I want to be working on ? :-) | 05:15 |
| mdz | tfheen: afaik, they're already loading the appropriate modules | 05:15 |
| Keybuk | iwj: I think we just did agree on priorities :p | 05:15 |
| iwj | fabbione: Right. I think you'll find it's fine. | 05:15 |
| mdz | iwj: it sounds like we do | 05:15 |
| fabbione | iwj: i am sure it will be fine... i like to be the devil advocate ;) | 05:15 |
| tfheen | mdz: not my laptop at least. | 05:15 |
| iwj | OK, I'll do the winmodem support first since it's probably smaller. | 05:15 |
| Keybuk | *blink* | 05:16 |
| mdz | iwj: talk it over with Keybuk out of band | 05:16 |
| iwj | mdz: OK | 05:16 |
| mdz | moving on to mvo | 05:16 |
| Keybuk | mvo: dist-upgrader-fixes | 05:16 |
| mvo | dist-upgrader-fixes> -> Half is done, a backport of apt fixes is requested (DPkg::StopOnErrors patch, no changes to existing codepathes). Biggestet MISSING thing is runing the frontend and the backend in two different processes. this is prototyped, but python lacks a mechanism to pass file descriptors over sockets between processes. this is added in update-manager (fdsend module) now, so we can use this for the next release (then we will ha | 05:16 |
| mvo | ve https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dist-upgrader-arch-any too) | 05:16 |
| Keybuk | there wasn't anything in your report saying whether it'd miss FF but be ready for the Release, be ready for FF, or miss the Release | 05:17 |
| mvo | some bits are ready now | 05:17 |
| Keybuk | will the missing bits be ready before the release? (ideally soon)? | 05:17 |
| mvo | the process seperation will miss release unless we backport the fdsend module to edgy | 05:17 |
| mdz | I don't think we should make major structural changes to the upgrader at this point | 05:17 |
| mvo | and for the better error handling I would like to add a patch to edgy apt | 05:18 |
| mvo | agreed | 05:18 |
| cjwatson | SRU stuff is later on the agenda | 05:18 |
| mdz | mvo: what's the potential benefit of the StopOnErrors backport? | 05:18 |
| mvo | mdz: apt will not stop if a dpkg --unpack/configure run fails | 05:18 |
| mvo | but keep going as long as possible | 05:19 |
| mvo | and report the broken packages | 05:19 |
| mvo | it won't change the behaviour by default | 05:19 |
| mvo | just when run under the upgrader | 05:19 |
| mdz | doesn't sound like a straightforward one to evaluate | 05:20 |
| mdz | let's discuss via email with the SRU team | 05:20 |
| mvo | fine with me | 05:20 |
| mdz | ACTION: mvo to discuss StopOnErrors backport with SRU team | 05:20 |
| pitti | still, if things break with the upgrader, that would be bad | 05:20 |
| mdz | tkamppeter: printerdriverautodownload? | 05:20 |
| cjwatson | that has made significant process since we last talked, according to Till's update | 05:20 |
| cjwatson | so I would like to know roughly how much longer it's expected to take, to see if it's worth an FF exception now | 05:21 |
| tkamppeter | I have made the first driver packages and put them up on OpenPrinting | 05:21 |
| tkamppeter | And I have updated the sites CGI scripts so that the packages are shown, added install instruction, and announced the new service. | 05:22 |
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| tkamppeter | For making a source .deb which auto-downloads all available packages when building. I have some questions: | 05:23 |
| mdz | the spec calls for changes to PrinterDrake, which isn't shipping in this release | 05:23 |
| tkamppeter | Is it possible to convert a source RPM into a .deb source (.orig.gz, .diff.gz, dsc)? | 05:23 |
| pitti | mdz: these parts aren't crucial at all AFAICS, just nice to have (better integration) | 05:24 |
| tfheen | tkamppeter: you can't download anything off the net when you build a package. | 05:24 |
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| pitti | tkamppeter: not universally; what do you need that for? | 05:24 |
| pitti | tfheen: the idea is something like 'debian/rules upstream-update' | 05:24 |
| cjwatson | tkamppeter: this should be a proper source package, not one converted from another format, IMO | 05:25 |
| mdz | this implementation sounds less and less like the summary of the spec | 05:25 |
| tkamppeter | The idea which was brought in for Ubuntu was making Ubuntu .deb packages from the available distribution-independent driver packages in an automated way. | 05:25 |
| pitti | tfheen: i. e. at some point you fetch the stuff from openprinting, then update the source package, and run the tests, etc. | 05:25 |
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| tfheen | pitti: well, that's fine of course. | 05:25 |
| mdz | cjwatson,pitti,tkamppeter: how about the three of you review this out of band and come to a decision? | 05:25 |
| cjwatson | mdz: it's what's in the wiki page, though, more or less | 05:25 |
| pitti | mdz: fine for me | 05:25 |
| mdz | ok | 05:25 |
| cjwatson | the discussion evolved a fair bit since the LP spec summary was written | 05:25 |
| mdz | ACTION: cjwatson/pitti/tkamppeter to review printerdriverautodownload and come to a decision regarding its fate for feisty | 05:26 |
| cjwatson | ACTION: cjwatson, pitti, tkamppeter to review printerdriverautodownload | 05:26 |
| cjwatson | dup! | 05:26 |
| Keybuk | caught it :p | 05:26 |
| mdz | Kubuntu Upgrader needs patches backported to kdelibs, kdebase and adept but also the feisty version of python-kde3 backported, which means backporting also python-qt3 and sip4-qt3, is that OK to go into edgy-updates after the usual SRU process? (Jonathan Riddell) | 05:26 |
| mdz | ouch | 05:26 |
| Riddell | mostly just a warning | 05:26 |
| Riddell | we need the fesity python-kde3 for the new embedded konsole | 05:27 |
| mdz | my gut feeling just based on the scope of the changes is that we should release this with feisty and not backport it to edgy | 05:27 |
| Riddell | and that needs the feisty versions of python-qt3 and sip | 05:27 |
| Riddell | mdz: that defeats the point of a dist-upgrader, which is very badly needed | 05:27 |
| mdz | Riddell: it doesn't; it just makes it one release later | 05:28 |
| Riddell | there's only limited packages that use python-kde3 and -qt, it's possible to test them all for breakage | 05:28 |
| mdz | it doesn't meet the criteria for an SRU | 05:28 |
| mdz | well, not obviously anyway | 05:29 |
| mdz | it depends on just how poorly the upgrade experience is now, I suppose | 05:30 |
| mdz | but it's a very large change to weigh against the benefits | 05:30 |
| Riddell | judging by dapper->edgy very poor | 05:30 |
| sfllaw | Is there some way to statically compile for just that app? | 05:30 |
| tfheen | we need to solve this problem for dapper->next LTS too, at some point. | 05:30 |
| sfllaw | Then we could limit the breakage. | 05:30 |
| pitti | sfllaw: urgh @ security updates then | 05:30 |
| tfheen | sfllaw: that would mean shipping a statically compiled python, I think? | 05:31 |
| cjwatson | statically compile> include copies of the relevant modules with the upgrader? | 05:31 |
| cjwatson | UGLY, but ... | 05:31 |
| mdz | Riddell: have you talked with mvo about it? | 05:31 |
| mvo | statically compile> we would need autobuilder support for that | 05:31 |
| mvo | well, not really, but it would be really good to have that | 05:31 |
| cjwatson | I'm still convinced that you already have it | 05:31 |
| mvo | we may have arch-any upload support, but I'm pretty sure we do not have auto-builder support | 05:32 |
| cjwatson | well, might need a bit of a source package restructuring, but I think the archive-side support is all thre | 05:32 |
| cjwatson | there | 05:32 |
| Riddell | mdz: yes | 05:32 |
| mvo | its not a .dsc file afterall, just a tarball | 05:32 |
| cjwatson | a source package can spit out anything as long as it goes in a .changes file :) | 05:32 |
| cjwatson | right, the source package would need to be fixeed | 05:32 |
| cjwatson | fixed | 05:32 |
| mvo | cjwatson: that would be a interessting option, can we talk offline about this? | 05:33 |
| === stranger [n=stranger@protox.csn.tu-chemnitz.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| cjwatson | sure | 05:33 |
| cjwatson | ACTION: cjwatson and mvo to discuss dist-upgrader autobuilding | 05:33 |
| mdz | sounds like another conversation for the SRU team | 05:33 |
| mdz | (the Kubuntu upgrader situation, that is) | 05:33 |
| Riddell | == cjwatson and pitti? | 05:34 |
| mdz | ACTION: cjwatson/pitti/Riddell/mvo to discuss Kubuntu upgrade options for edgy->feisty | 05:34 |
| pitti | ack | 05:34 |
| mdz | A friend of mine just phoned me, he created a Qt GUI implementation for apport; do we want that in Feisty? It'd require us to copy over the apport bits of update-notifier to adept-notifier (shouldn't be hard, there's nothing GTK specific in it) (Martin Pitt) | 05:34 |
| pitti | I tested the current bzr head version (under Gnome, though) | 05:34 |
| pitti | it principally works | 05:34 |
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| Riddell | what are the apport bits of update-notifier? | 05:34 |
| cjwatson | I would love to make ubiquity more consistent between GNOME and KDE as regards crash reporting | 05:34 |
| mdz | I see no reason why we wouldn't want it | 05:35 |
| pitti | modulo some bugs in the Qt/Gnome frontend and qt itself | 05:35 |
| pitti | but it's mostly cosmetics | 05:35 |
| mdz | pitti: is it something you can hand off to Riddell for most of the integration work? | 05:35 |
| pitti | Riddell: calling apport-checkreports and displaying a tray icon or calling apport | 05:35 |
| pitti | mdz: I'm happy to work with him to get it going | 05:35 |
| pitti | the u-n bits for apport are entirely GTK-independent | 05:35 |
| pitti | well, almost, the tray icon needs different treatment, I guess | 05:35 |
| pitti | but the branch just arrived today, so it's quite on the edge of FF | 05:36 |
| pitti | how'bout me uploading apport-qt to the archive today for more widespread testing? | 05:36 |
| pitti | (universe for now) | 05:36 |
| mdz | it's worth having, but only if it doesn't require much wore work for you | 05:36 |
| pitti | Riddell: my principal question is to you, whether you actually want it | 05:37 |
| mdz | does it make the difference between having apport in Kubuntu or not? | 05:37 |
| Riddell | pitti: sounds fun, my main worry remains how it interacts with the normal KDE crash handler and how annoyed upstream would get if we replaced it | 05:37 |
| pitti | mdz: Michael agreed to help with bug fixing in the qt port itself, so it's just the adept-notifier bits | 05:37 |
| pitti | Riddell: if kcrash intercepts sigsegvs, apport won't kick in | 05:37 |
| Riddell | ok, that's an easy way around | 05:38 |
| pitti | Riddell: so it'd only be used for non-KDE programs, as long as you keep krash enabled | 05:38 |
| Riddell | mdz: it would yes | 05:38 |
| pitti | and that depends on how happy upstream is with the krash reports they get | 05:38 |
| Riddell | pitti: there's a couple people who have been doing adept patches during feisty as well as myself so there's people to help with thfat | 05:38 |
| === Riddell wonders why people assume the KDE crash handler is called krash | ||
| mdz | I can't imagine why | 05:39 |
| dholbach | hehe :) | 05:39 |
| mdz | ... | 05:39 |
| kwwii | while we are on the subject, the apport icons (from the last meeting), a first version is ready and the final icons should be done soon | 05:39 |
| fabbione | ROFL | 05:39 |
| pitti | kwwii: Troy sent me some, they look really nice! | 05:39 |
| Keybuk | Riddell: you realise that it now has to be | 05:39 |
| mdz | pitti: ok, are you finished with your agenda item? | 05:40 |
| kwwii | pitti: exactly, I am going to touch them up a bit, but they will be done soon | 05:40 |
| pitti | mdz: so, the decision seems to be 'yes, we want it'? | 05:40 |
| Keybuk | yes please | 05:40 |
| pitti | mdz: ok, then I'll put it into the archive today and discuss integration with Riddell | 05:40 |
| mdz | pitti: of course we do; it's a question of whether we can get it finished soon enough | 05:40 |
| Riddell | action: pitti to upload and riddell to evaluate that it doesn't break with current KDE stuff and find someone to do adept-updater work | 05:40 |
| pitti | ACTION: discuss adept-notifier integration of apport (pitti/Riddell) | 05:40 |
| pitti | heh, snap again | 05:41 |
| mdz | we already covered StopOnError earlier | 05:41 |
| mdz | (dholbach) [WWW] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-February/023233.html | 05:41 |
| dholbach | I think we all agree, that it would have been nice to get this in earlier, I still wonder if it wouldn't make sense to get xorg 7.2 in still (in terms of maintainability and fixes we'd get from upstream and support for newer devices, etc.) | 05:41 |
| mdz | agenda items which consist solely of URLs are deprecated | 05:41 |
| pitti | does anyone know whether tepsipakki has the sk1llz for that? | 05:41 |
| dholbach | What does the Release team think? | 05:41 |
| mdz | dholbach: basically the same answer as for apport-qt | 05:42 |
| mdz | we certainly do want it, but we have finite resources and are occupied with other things at the moment | 05:42 |
| dholbach | mdz: I don't think we can have xorg7.2 in universe :) | 05:42 |
| cjwatson | on the one hand, I'd like to get the driver fixes, but on the other I'm concerned about having nobody dedicated to new bugs coming in | 05:42 |
| mdz | is anyone available to review his packages and upload them? | 05:42 |
| dholbach | cjwatson: we don't have anybody dedicated to old bugs atm too :-/ | 05:42 |
| mdz | and who would be responsible for bug reports? | 05:42 |
| mdz | I assume this stuff isn't in Debian yet | 05:43 |
| cjwatson | we ought to be able to sync a number of the libraries from Debian experimental | 05:43 |
| mvo | I guess we could do this as a team effort (review+upload) | 05:43 |
| cjwatson | mdz: I think some of this is merges from experimental | 05:43 |
| tfheen | I'm not happy with it unless we have a bunch of interested people who works on it, actively. | 05:43 |
| cjwatson | but I haven't verified | 05:43 |
| seb128 | I can review some uploads, I've enough bugs on my list without xorg though | 05:43 |
| tfheen | we have a bunch of people who can chip in a bit, but that's not really enough. | 05:44 |
| dholbach | cjwatson: he merged a bunch of packages with experimental already | 05:44 |
| tfheen | seb128: and you're already stretching more than last cycle now that you're doing ubuntu-archive stuff. | 05:44 |
| mdz | if we can get a plausible community effort behind it, we can do it | 05:44 |
| mdz | but someone in core-dev needs to be the point person for it | 05:44 |
| tfheen | mdz: that'd need to happen fairly quickly though. If we have a team of interested people and merged packages in a week, it can happen. | 05:44 |
| seb128 | tfheen: right, I clearly don't intend to spend much efforts on xorg | 05:44 |
| mdz | what's needed is to explain the requirements for making this happen for feisty, to the people working on it | 05:45 |
| cjwatson | somebody should post to -devel with such an explanation and calling for core-dev assistance | 05:45 |
| kylem | mdz, i'm willing to take point if i need to. | 05:45 |
| seb128 | the question is if we think the 7.2 upload would bring bugs_fixed > new_bugs_brough | 05:46 |
| cjwatson | if that came from one of the core team it would have more impact | 05:46 |
| tfheen | mdz: I can do that from a RM POV. | 05:46 |
| mdz | get a handle on the scope, estimate a reasonable deadline for completion, form a team which can plausibly respond to bug reports, etc. | 05:46 |
| kylem | i'm sure mjg59 will chip in too, he wants to see some of this stuff in feisty. | 05:46 |
| Keybuk | 7.2 doesn't include either input-hotplug or monitor-hotplug/randr 1.2; right? | 05:46 |
| kylem | Keybuk, correct, that's 7.2.1 ;-) | 05:46 |
| tfheen | Keybuk: input-hotplug is easily mergable, but monitor-hotplug is 7.3, AIUI. | 05:46 |
| mdz | it surely brings heaps of hardware-related improvements though | 05:46 |
| kylem | still doable for feisty thoughh... | 05:46 |
| cjwatson | kylem: I don't want you doing much of the actual work, but I'd be happy if you're willing to coordinate | 05:47 |
| mvo | I would like to support the effort too | 05:47 |
| kylem | randr 1.2 needs xserver 1.2.1 which keithp has said he can have release ready for us... | 05:47 |
| cjwatson | some of the work will match up with your kernel bits of course | 05:47 |
| dholbach | I'll try to help with forming a team and talk to tepsipakki - should the team present their efforts at the next TB meeting or something? | 05:47 |
| kylem | cjwatson, right, i don't want to do the actual work either. ;-P | 05:47 |
| mdz | cjwatson: would you write up the requirements for ubuntu-devel? formulate it so that someone needs to put their name in each of the necessary slots in order for it to be approved | 05:47 |
| fabbione | dholbach: there is an X team already | 05:47 |
| fabbione | dholbach: let's use that one | 05:47 |
| dholbach | fabbione: where? | 05:47 |
| cjwatson | it's modular. the team should get whatever the hell they can into the archive in incremental stages that won't break the world | 05:47 |
| mdz | ubuntu-x-swat | 05:47 |
| fabbione | dholbach: ubuntu-x-swat.. | 05:48 |
| dholbach | yeah, but who's on that team? | 05:48 |
| cjwatson | not wait for a meeting :) | 05:48 |
| cjwatson | mdz: yes | 05:48 |
| kylem | cjwatson, i'm mostly just concerned about -intel for obvious reasons. | 05:48 |
| dholbach | I didn't to intend to invent a new name | 05:48 |
| cjwatson | right | 05:48 |
| mdz | ACTION: cjwatson to post requirements for X.org 7.2 in feisty to -devel | 05:48 |
| fabbione | dholbach: me... and a few others... people don't join it for fun | 05:48 |
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| mdz | at a minimum, this should require that the packagers and a couple of other folks step up to join the X team and follow up | 05:48 |
| ogra | how do we mae sure we dont need to roll back everything if they loose interest half way ? | 05:48 |
| ogra | *make | 05:48 |
| mdz | and someone on -core-dev to sponsor them | 05:48 |
| cjwatson | ogra: 16:47 < cjwatson> it's modular. the team should get whatever the hell they can into the archive in incremental stages that won't break the world | 05:49 |
| mdz | and we get a commitment from them | 05:49 |
| ogra | cjwatson, but if it does ? | 05:49 |
| cjwatson | this should be perfectly doable; our client-side and server-side stuff is already out of sync | 05:49 |
| cjwatson | ogra: we only need to roll back a package or two | 05:49 |
| ogra | mdz, exactly, thats what i mean | 05:49 |
| dholbach | fabbione: we all agreed that we don't have somebody who looks after bugs at the moment... that's why I asked 'where' - I wrote the wiki pages for ubuntu-x-swat so I should know :) | 05:49 |
| cjwatson | I have many concerns, but they don't include needing to roll back everything | 05:49 |
| fabbione | dholbach: right, i thought you wanted to create another LP team | 05:50 |
| ogra | cjwatson, mine neither, but being left with a half done update ... | 05:50 |
| mdz | ok, sounds like consensus to me | 05:50 |
| dholbach | fabbione: no, not really | 05:50 |
| mdz | moving on | 05:50 |
| mdz | Keybuk: udev debugging? | 05:50 |
| Keybuk | still have to write that | 05:50 |
| cjwatson | ogra: half-done isn't actually all that bad in this case. Anyway, #ubuntu-devel | 05:50 |
| Keybuk | I'll try and get to it next week for the bug fixing push | 05:51 |
| iwj | udev debugging> shoot the author ? | 05:51 |
| iwj | Excuse me, I'm just a bit annoyed with it recently :-). | 05:51 |
| cjwatson | legal udev debugging | 05:51 |
| Keybuk | iwj: could you write up the problems you had with it | 05:52 |
| mdz | s/legal/helpful/ | 05:52 |
| Keybuk | it could be a useful thing for upstream | 05:52 |
| seb128 | mdz: is that ok if I go now? I've guitar class in a few min | 05:52 |
| Keybuk | kay's a nice guy, he accepts helpful (and/or witty) criticism | 05:52 |
| mdz | if done with a constructive tone | 05:52 |
| iwj | Keybuk: Hmm. I'll write up a rant and then we can tone it down into something useful. | 05:52 |
| Keybuk | send it to me first; since I already have a working relationship with him | 05:52 |
| Keybuk | ok | 05:52 |
| Keybuk | ACTION iwj to write up summary of experiences debugging udev | 05:52 |
| iwj | While we're on udev, is anyone here affected by bug 83878 ? | 05:52 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 83878 in udev "wrong permissions for /dev/null" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83878 | 05:52 |
| mdz | seb128: OK, but this meeting is scheduled for 1 hour, you should plan on being able to stay until the end | 05:53 |
| iwj | If so talk to me afterwards. | 05:53 |
| Keybuk | iwj: everyone is on and off; it tends to show up once in a while with a whole bunch of different causes | 05:53 |
| seb128 | mdz: ok, will do for next time, thanks | 05:53 |
| mdz | sfllaw will e-mail distro-team@ about commercial package support | 05:53 |
| Keybuk | it's the most common symptom of "udevtrigger didn't get run" | 05:53 |
| iwj | Keybuk: Joy. | 05:53 |
| Keybuk | mdz: he's done that | 05:53 |
| mdz | this seems to have happened _during_ the meeting | 05:53 |
| cjwatson | hah | 05:53 |
| sfllaw | Yes. | 05:53 |
| cjwatson | Brinkmanship. :-) | 05:53 |
| sfllaw | I only noticed after reading the agenda. | 05:53 |
| Keybuk | iwj: sometimes caused by the udev init script being run multiple times | 05:54 |
| mdz | deliverables were mailed to distro-team after last week's meeting | 05:54 |
| cjwatson | doko to mail ubuntu-devel about which Python modules should be in main | 05:54 |
| cjwatson | judging from the odd /msg, doko has been investigating this today? | 05:54 |
| doko | cjwatson: that was done *before* the meeting | 05:54 |
| cjwatson | aha, I didn't notice; I'm behind on -devel | 05:55 |
| Keybuk | doko: reference? | 05:55 |
| Keybuk | doko: you didn't follow-up to distro-team to say the action was done | 05:55 |
| Keybuk | (which is useful if your line manager hasn't caught up on other mailing lists :p) | 05:55 |
| doko | Keybuk: hmm, ok | 05:55 |
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| mdz | cjwatson to chase up the set of core-devs who can help moderate ubuntu-devel and arrange for clear documentation | 05:55 |
| cjwatson | FYI, I've edited Simon's late update into the agenda | 05:56 |
| doko | Keybuk: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-February/023235.html | 05:56 |
| mdz | I posted bullet points which should be sufficient for documentation | 05:56 |
| cjwatson | moderation> this is still not done, I'm afraid; I gave feature-freeze requirements precedence | 05:56 |
| Keybuk | heh, 20 seconds before the meeting doesn't count <g> | 05:56 |
| cjwatson | please leave it on my action list for this week | 05:56 |
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| mdz | ok | 05:56 |
| mdz | tfheen: release readiness? | 05:56 |
| heno | I've done some moderation and have filed some RT about whitelisting and spam | 05:56 |
| tkamppeter | iwj, the /dev/null problem keeps HPLIP's hpssd from starting, bug 83924 | 05:57 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 83924 in hplip "[apport] [feisty] hpssd crashed with IOError in daemonize()" [Medium,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83924 | 05:57 |
| pitti | tkamppeter: -> #ubuntu-devel, please | 05:57 |
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| tfheen | mdz: I'm a bit behind on looking at the spec status, but when I looked at it on Monday, it looked like about half the specs were good progress or better. | 05:57 |
| mdz | tfheen: blocker bugs? | 05:58 |
| Keybuk | I should probably have sent tollef the list of specs mdz and I wrote last week | 05:58 |
| tfheen | Keybuk: yes, please. | 05:59 |
| Keybuk | that has whether they're likely to meet FF, slip but make the release, or miss | 05:59 |
| tfheen | mdz: I'm behind on those as well, but I don't have any big problems on my radar. | 05:59 |
| mdz | I'm more interested in bugs, honestly | 05:59 |
| mdz | we can more easily release without a feature than with a major bug | 05:59 |
| tfheen | there's a fair amount of polishing to be done such as NetworkManager needing a bit of love to handle suspend/resume reliably. | 06:00 |
| mdz | tfheen: have you received any high-profile issues from sfllaw, bdmurray or others in the past week? | 06:00 |
| Keybuk | we should target bugs at the feisty release? or at a milestone? | 06:00 |
| mdz | right, is there a process in place to flag bugs which you should be tracking? | 06:00 |
| tfheen | Keybuk: if they're feasible for a milestone, milestone. | 06:00 |
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| Keybuk | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+bugs | 06:00 |
| Keybuk | (has three 3 bugs) | 06:01 |
| Keybuk | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.04 | 06:01 |
| tfheen | mdz: not a formal one, no. I'll get in touch with QA about it. | 06:01 |
| Keybuk | (has a whole bunch of bugs) | 06:01 |
| mdz | ACTION: tfheen to document bug escalation to release management | 06:01 |
| tfheen | so far it has been "target stuff to a release/milestone" | 06:01 |
| mdz | tfheen: plenty of room for confusion there, especially since we have milestones intended to work around the former lack of release targeting | 06:02 |
| mdz | ok, that's the end of the agenda | 06:02 |
| mdz | any other business? | 06:02 |
| tfheen | I'd just like to remind everybody that herd-4 is due next week | 06:02 |
| tfheen | and that we're now in FF+UVF, so please get in touch if you have new upstream versions you want in. | 06:03 |
| pitti | oh, already? *urgh* | 06:03 |
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| tfheen | pitti: traditionally, it's been the start of the distro meeting, you've I've let it slip by a whole hour! :-) | 06:03 |
| cjwatson | I have migration-assistant still to land | 06:03 |
| BenC | what if I have a totally new package? | 06:03 |
| Keybuk | I still have both my specs to land | 06:03 |
| cjwatson | it's in main, but the ubiquity merge needs to be done | 06:03 |
| pitti | tfheen: I meant herd-4, not UVF | 06:03 |
| cjwatson | in the middle of that :) | 06:04 |
| tfheen | pitti: oh, ok. | 06:04 |
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| BenC | new kernel needs dtc (device-tree compiler) for ppc | 06:04 |
| tfheen | I'm fine with people sneaking stuff in under the wire for today. | 06:04 |
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| tfheen | BenC: ugh. Get it packaged ASAP. | 06:04 |
| sfllaw | tfheen: I have a version of ttf-dejavu that I'm looking at building. | 06:04 |
| tfheen | BenC: and get the MIR done ASAP. | 06:04 |
| sfllaw | To solve internationalization issues. | 06:04 |
| BenC | tfheen: will do | 06:04 |
| BenC | I might just sneak it into the kernel build, since that's the only place that needs it | 06:04 |
| tfheen | BenC: please don't, I'd rather have to NEW it. | 06:05 |
| BenC | then it'd only take up src space | 06:05 |
| BenC | tfheen: let's talk in -devel | 06:05 |
| mdz | ok, anything else, please follow up by mail/IRC | 06:05 |
| mdz | adjourned, thanks all | 06:05 |
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| fabbione | thanks guys | 06:05 |
| fabbione | cya monday | 06:05 |
| === fabbione packs and flies back home | ||
| amendt | Great Meeting! | 06:06 |
| === asac is off | ||
| Keybuk | tfheen: ok, spec list sent to you | 06:06 |
| dholbach | thanks | 06:06 |
| kwwii | bye all, thanks | 06:06 |
| pitti | thanks everyone | 06:06 |
| tfheen | Keybuk: cheers. | 06:06 |
| iwj | Thanks everyone. This one was tough. Let's see if we can make the next one shorter :-). | 06:06 |
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| pkl_ | bye | 06:08 |
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| ogra | wow, nice and fast | 06:08 |
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| mvo | thanks | 06:10 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | ||
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| Commander-Crowe | @time los_angeles | 10:36 |
| Ubugtu | Current time in America/Los_Angeles: February 08 2007, 13:36:17 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Canada in 1 day | 10:36 |
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