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Schedule for Etc/UTC: 08 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Feb 21:00: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00: Technical Board === Kamping_Kaiser [n=kgoetz@unafilliated/kgoetz] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Wait] === fabbione [n=fabbione@modemcable178.77-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@p54A66C40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo_ [n=egon@p54A65847.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F740ED.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ryanakca [n=ryan@d226-26-139.home.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jenda [n=jenda@ubuntu/member/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === RichEd [n=richard@dsl-241-47-52.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["~>] === amendt [n=chatzill@64.42.235.130] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-64-134.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kylem [i=kyle@fruit.freedesktop.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Spock_ [n=chatzill@64.42.235.130] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-33-150.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:33] morning [04:36] hey mdz [04:36] heya mdz === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Spock_ is now known as amendt === bdmurray [n=bdmurray@c-24-21-235-175.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BenC [n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hjmf [n=hjmf@87.Red-83-40-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board === tfheen [n=tfheen@aine.err.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === heno [n=henrik@ubuntu/member/heno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:57] cjwatson,doko,sfllaw,pkl,tkamppeter,asac,mvo,Riddell,iwj,kwwii,ogra: ping [04:57] yo [04:57] pong [04:57] here [04:57] here [04:57] hello === ogra imagines cjwatson with a basecap === pkl_ [n=phillip@lougher.demon.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:58] mdz: sfllaw is on his way [04:59] good afternoon [04:59] cjwatson: heard from till? [04:59] Keybuk: ian and ken? === kylem waves. [04:59] Pong. [05:00] till was around in -devel earlier === kwwii [n=kwwii@p54956871.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:00] (cjwatson) Henrik: "sudo AT-SPI looks like it's finally happening, but needs a fix in /root/.orbitrc"; can we do that some other way to avoid having to change dotfiles in /root? [05:00] they're both here [05:00] I'm dropping that off the agenda because I noticed it was discussed by e-mail already [05:00] where here =~ seen them online this afternoon [05:00] cjwatson: see -devel [05:00] ah === iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:00] cjwatson: yes, he discussion is in full flow upstream again [05:00] Hi everyone. [05:01] ok, let's get started [05:01] we should go with a user work around and wait for it to get fixed properly (of course it still affects ubiquity badly) [05:01] cjwatson: Tim isn't here today, right? [05:02] no, holiday; that's noted on the agenda [05:02] agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070208: [05:02] cjwatson: let's put that at the top in the future [05:02] and I'm here :-) [05:02] mdz: sure, I'll edit the template === pitti waves to the mdz-vac-bot [05:02] er, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070208 (no trailing punctuation) [05:03] are there any additions or deletions to/from the agenda? [05:03] gnargh! [05:03] COLIN, PLEASE OBEY WIKI LOCKS === tkamppeter [n=till@bl8-122-18.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:04] huh? I see no lock errors [05:04] perhaps I missed it, if so sorry [05:05] np; you just did it twice in a row to me :p [05:05] FYI, ogra is listed twice on wiki, once with "NO REPORT..." and once with a report === giftnudel [n=mb@p54A93AB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:05] BenC: once for each of ogra's personalities [05:05] I suspect ogra added it himself [05:06] ok, taking the agenda as-is [05:06] ogra: you're most welcome to participate in the meeting, but please do get your report in by the end of Wednesday -- we pre-edit the agenda and send it out; if you add it yourself, people may not see it [05:06] yeah i did [05:06] "New Archive Team" has no name attached to it [05:06] Keybuk, yes. i'll be on time next week, really sorry for that [05:06] er, wrong agenda [05:06] mdz: errrr [05:06] asac: your agenda item? [05:06] (asac) Alexander wants to go over his firefox packaging changes with Ian. [05:07] that was one I added on asac's behalf to ensure that that got done soon [05:07] asac: Sure, how about right after this meeting ? [05:07] sounds like something the two of you could take care of out of band, rather than in this meeting [05:07] (since it was in his report) [05:07] it certainly doesn't need to happen in the meeting [05:07] ok [05:07] ACTION iwj and asac to talk about firefox packaging changes [05:07] iwj: actually I am not here today :) ... I will upload it and we can go through it tomorrow? [05:07] asac: OK. [05:07] sounds good [05:07] the sooner the better === giftnudel_ [n=mb@p54A9420F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:07] fine ... actually I am quite optimistic that we get patches sorted out [05:08] asac: Sure but I'm away tomorrow ... [05:08] there is only one major patch we might really get trouble getting upstream approval for === Huahua [n=hua@122.0.230.147] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:08] the thai patch [05:08] Let's take these details offline. [05:08] iwj: weekend? === PiorAuTaff2 [n=Pior@LAubervilliers-151-11-28-107.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:08] asac: yes, that's come up with upstream already. need to connect the person who wrote it with upstream to get it into shape [05:09] next agenda item: Will the following specs make release? (Scott James Remnant, Colin Watson) [05:09] mdz: fine. Can you CC me, so I know the author? [05:09] asac: thep wrote it, hes around quite often in irc [05:09] right [05:09] iwj: your spec update didn't include any estimate of whether winmodem-support or automated-testing-deployment might make the release? [05:09] what's the status of those two specs? [05:09] automated-testing-deployment> Is largely decoupled from the release cycle. So since it wasn't urgent for feature freeze it got put on hold at Keybuk's request. [05:09] asac: mvo should have his contact info; I don't have it to hand [05:10] mdz: ok ... noted ... will ping mvo [05:10] *nods* the udev-* stuff was higher priority -- but if you started on that now, would you complete it before the release? [05:10] winmodem-support> It is now evident that it won't make the release. I've been chasing after udev breakage the last day or two when I had hoped to be fixing up and promoting sl-modem-daemon. [05:10] iwj: even so, there's little potential to benefit from it for the release unless it's deployed soon [05:10] mdz: Indeed. [05:10] Although one benefit will be for security testing. [05:11] How long would winmodem-support take, out of curiosity? [05:11] and we'll be gearing up, not down as we get closer to the release. [05:11] cjwatson: I spoke to mjg59 and I got the impression it was just a matter of putting together existing stuff in a slightly sane way. [05:11] I can get automated-testing running here out of cron with a week's work or so if I don't do anything much else that week. [05:11] I said the same thing about it in November. [05:12] mdz: Right, but I have the hardware now (since last week). [05:13] ok, otherwise your specs are now in good order; thanks especially for taking on some of the work from me [05:13] NP [05:13] udev-mdadm didn't take you as long as you feared? [05:13] (or is the spec status in LP wrong?) [05:14] if that's true, we will get more value out of automated testing than winmodem-support, since it should benefit a larger proportion of users [05:14] udev-mdadm was more straightforward than I feared but less easy than the spec said :-). [05:14] but winmodem-support is worth pushing in late if it's not too intrusive for users who don't have the hardware [05:14] Keybuk: LP> Oh, I probably forgot to update the status. [05:14] good. the testing spec is the most important one to get done next, as that will be useful in the shortest time scale [05:14] iwj: next week i am going to stress test the udev-* on the systems i have home that suck at bringing up disks at a normal speed [05:15] and as mdz just said, we should also get winmodem-support in, even past FF [05:15] mdz: I would want it properly regression-tested so we don't end up loading modules which destabilise the system, since loads and loads of laptops have winmodem hardware. [05:15] mdz, Keybuk: Can I get you two to agree on priorities so know what I want to be working on ? :-) [05:15] tfheen: afaik, they're already loading the appropriate modules [05:15] iwj: I think we just did agree on priorities :p [05:15] fabbione: Right. I think you'll find it's fine. [05:15] iwj: it sounds like we do [05:15] iwj: i am sure it will be fine... i like to be the devil advocate ;) [05:15] mdz: not my laptop at least. [05:15] OK, I'll do the winmodem support first since it's probably smaller. [05:16] *blink* [05:16] iwj: talk it over with Keybuk out of band [05:16] mdz: OK [05:16] moving on to mvo [05:16] mvo: dist-upgrader-fixes [05:16] dist-upgrader-fixes> -> Half is done, a backport of apt fixes is requested (DPkg::StopOnErrors patch, no changes to existing codepathes). Biggestet MISSING thing is runing the frontend and the backend in two different processes. this is prototyped, but python lacks a mechanism to pass file descriptors over sockets between processes. this is added in update-manager (fdsend module) now, so we can use this for the next release (then we will ha [05:16] ve https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dist-upgrader-arch-any too) [05:17] there wasn't anything in your report saying whether it'd miss FF but be ready for the Release, be ready for FF, or miss the Release [05:17] some bits are ready now [05:17] will the missing bits be ready before the release? (ideally soon)? [05:17] the process seperation will miss release unless we backport the fdsend module to edgy [05:17] I don't think we should make major structural changes to the upgrader at this point [05:18] and for the better error handling I would like to add a patch to edgy apt [05:18] agreed [05:18] SRU stuff is later on the agenda [05:18] mvo: what's the potential benefit of the StopOnErrors backport? [05:18] mdz: apt will not stop if a dpkg --unpack/configure run fails [05:19] but keep going as long as possible [05:19] and report the broken packages [05:19] it won't change the behaviour by default [05:19] just when run under the upgrader [05:20] doesn't sound like a straightforward one to evaluate [05:20] let's discuss via email with the SRU team [05:20] fine with me [05:20] ACTION: mvo to discuss StopOnErrors backport with SRU team [05:20] still, if things break with the upgrader, that would be bad [05:20] tkamppeter: printerdriverautodownload? [05:20] that has made significant process since we last talked, according to Till's update [05:21] so I would like to know roughly how much longer it's expected to take, to see if it's worth an FF exception now [05:21] I have made the first driver packages and put them up on OpenPrinting [05:22] And I have updated the sites CGI scripts so that the packages are shown, added install instruction, and announced the new service. === thekorn [n=markus@a89-182-12-91.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:23] For making a source .deb which auto-downloads all available packages when building. I have some questions: [05:23] the spec calls for changes to PrinterDrake, which isn't shipping in this release [05:23] Is it possible to convert a source RPM into a .deb source (.orig.gz, .diff.gz, dsc)? [05:24] mdz: these parts aren't crucial at all AFAICS, just nice to have (better integration) [05:24] tkamppeter: you can't download anything off the net when you build a package. === giftnudel_ [n=mb@p54A93CD0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:24] tkamppeter: not universally; what do you need that for? [05:24] tfheen: the idea is something like 'debian/rules upstream-update' [05:25] tkamppeter: this should be a proper source package, not one converted from another format, IMO [05:25] this implementation sounds less and less like the summary of the spec [05:25] The idea which was brought in for Ubuntu was making Ubuntu .deb packages from the available distribution-independent driver packages in an automated way. [05:25] tfheen: i. e. at some point you fetch the stuff from openprinting, then update the source package, and run the tests, etc. === BuffaloSoldier [n=integral@ubuntu/member/BuffaloSoldier] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:25] pitti: well, that's fine of course. [05:25] cjwatson,pitti,tkamppeter: how about the three of you review this out of band and come to a decision? [05:25] mdz: it's what's in the wiki page, though, more or less [05:25] mdz: fine for me [05:25] ok [05:25] the discussion evolved a fair bit since the LP spec summary was written [05:26] ACTION: cjwatson/pitti/tkamppeter to review printerdriverautodownload and come to a decision regarding its fate for feisty [05:26] ACTION: cjwatson, pitti, tkamppeter to review printerdriverautodownload [05:26] dup! [05:26] caught it :p [05:26] Kubuntu Upgrader needs patches backported to kdelibs, kdebase and adept but also the feisty version of python-kde3 backported, which means backporting also python-qt3 and sip4-qt3, is that OK to go into edgy-updates after the usual SRU process? (Jonathan Riddell) [05:26] ouch [05:26] mostly just a warning [05:27] we need the fesity python-kde3 for the new embedded konsole [05:27] my gut feeling just based on the scope of the changes is that we should release this with feisty and not backport it to edgy [05:27] and that needs the feisty versions of python-qt3 and sip [05:27] mdz: that defeats the point of a dist-upgrader, which is very badly needed [05:28] Riddell: it doesn't; it just makes it one release later [05:28] there's only limited packages that use python-kde3 and -qt, it's possible to test them all for breakage [05:28] it doesn't meet the criteria for an SRU [05:29] well, not obviously anyway [05:30] it depends on just how poorly the upgrade experience is now, I suppose [05:30] but it's a very large change to weigh against the benefits [05:30] judging by dapper->edgy very poor [05:30] Is there some way to statically compile for just that app? [05:30] we need to solve this problem for dapper->next LTS too, at some point. [05:30] Then we could limit the breakage. [05:30] sfllaw: urgh @ security updates then [05:31] sfllaw: that would mean shipping a statically compiled python, I think? [05:31] statically compile> include copies of the relevant modules with the upgrader? [05:31] UGLY, but ... [05:31] Riddell: have you talked with mvo about it? [05:31] statically compile> we would need autobuilder support for that [05:31] well, not really, but it would be really good to have that [05:31] I'm still convinced that you already have it [05:32] we may have arch-any upload support, but I'm pretty sure we do not have auto-builder support [05:32] well, might need a bit of a source package restructuring, but I think the archive-side support is all thre [05:32] there [05:32] mdz: yes [05:32] its not a .dsc file afterall, just a tarball [05:32] a source package can spit out anything as long as it goes in a .changes file :) [05:32] right, the source package would need to be fixeed [05:32] fixed [05:33] cjwatson: that would be a interessting option, can we talk offline about this? === stranger [n=stranger@protox.csn.tu-chemnitz.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:33] sure [05:33] ACTION: cjwatson and mvo to discuss dist-upgrader autobuilding [05:33] sounds like another conversation for the SRU team [05:33] (the Kubuntu upgrader situation, that is) [05:34] == cjwatson and pitti? [05:34] ACTION: cjwatson/pitti/Riddell/mvo to discuss Kubuntu upgrade options for edgy->feisty [05:34] ack [05:34] A friend of mine just phoned me, he created a Qt GUI implementation for apport; do we want that in Feisty? It'd require us to copy over the apport bits of update-notifier to adept-notifier (shouldn't be hard, there's nothing GTK specific in it) (Martin Pitt) [05:34] I tested the current bzr head version (under Gnome, though) [05:34] it principally works === jbailey [n=jbailey@modemcable178.77-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:34] what are the apport bits of update-notifier? [05:34] I would love to make ubiquity more consistent between GNOME and KDE as regards crash reporting [05:35] I see no reason why we wouldn't want it [05:35] modulo some bugs in the Qt/Gnome frontend and qt itself [05:35] but it's mostly cosmetics [05:35] pitti: is it something you can hand off to Riddell for most of the integration work? [05:35] Riddell: calling apport-checkreports and displaying a tray icon or calling apport [05:35] mdz: I'm happy to work with him to get it going [05:35] the u-n bits for apport are entirely GTK-independent [05:35] well, almost, the tray icon needs different treatment, I guess [05:36] but the branch just arrived today, so it's quite on the edge of FF [05:36] how'bout me uploading apport-qt to the archive today for more widespread testing? [05:36] (universe for now) [05:36] it's worth having, but only if it doesn't require much wore work for you [05:37] Riddell: my principal question is to you, whether you actually want it [05:37] does it make the difference between having apport in Kubuntu or not? [05:37] pitti: sounds fun, my main worry remains how it interacts with the normal KDE crash handler and how annoyed upstream would get if we replaced it [05:37] mdz: Michael agreed to help with bug fixing in the qt port itself, so it's just the adept-notifier bits [05:37] Riddell: if kcrash intercepts sigsegvs, apport won't kick in [05:38] ok, that's an easy way around [05:38] Riddell: so it'd only be used for non-KDE programs, as long as you keep krash enabled [05:38] mdz: it would yes [05:38] and that depends on how happy upstream is with the krash reports they get [05:38] pitti: there's a couple people who have been doing adept patches during feisty as well as myself so there's people to help with thfat === Riddell wonders why people assume the KDE crash handler is called krash [05:39] I can't imagine why [05:39] hehe :) [05:39] ... [05:39] while we are on the subject, the apport icons (from the last meeting), a first version is ready and the final icons should be done soon [05:39] ROFL [05:39] kwwii: Troy sent me some, they look really nice! [05:39] Riddell: you realise that it now has to be [05:40] pitti: ok, are you finished with your agenda item? [05:40] pitti: exactly, I am going to touch them up a bit, but they will be done soon [05:40] mdz: so, the decision seems to be 'yes, we want it'? [05:40] yes please [05:40] mdz: ok, then I'll put it into the archive today and discuss integration with Riddell [05:40] pitti: of course we do; it's a question of whether we can get it finished soon enough [05:40] action: pitti to upload and riddell to evaluate that it doesn't break with current KDE stuff and find someone to do adept-updater work [05:40] ACTION: discuss adept-notifier integration of apport (pitti/Riddell) [05:41] heh, snap again [05:41] we already covered StopOnError earlier [05:41] (dholbach) [WWW] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-February/023233.html [05:41] I think we all agree, that it would have been nice to get this in earlier, I still wonder if it wouldn't make sense to get xorg 7.2 in still (in terms of maintainability and fixes we'd get from upstream and support for newer devices, etc.) [05:41] agenda items which consist solely of URLs are deprecated [05:41] does anyone know whether tepsipakki has the sk1llz for that? [05:41] What does the Release team think? [05:42] dholbach: basically the same answer as for apport-qt [05:42] we certainly do want it, but we have finite resources and are occupied with other things at the moment [05:42] mdz: I don't think we can have xorg7.2 in universe :) [05:42] on the one hand, I'd like to get the driver fixes, but on the other I'm concerned about having nobody dedicated to new bugs coming in [05:42] is anyone available to review his packages and upload them? [05:42] cjwatson: we don't have anybody dedicated to old bugs atm too :-/ [05:42] and who would be responsible for bug reports? [05:43] I assume this stuff isn't in Debian yet [05:43] we ought to be able to sync a number of the libraries from Debian experimental [05:43] I guess we could do this as a team effort (review+upload) [05:43] mdz: I think some of this is merges from experimental [05:43] I'm not happy with it unless we have a bunch of interested people who works on it, actively. [05:43] but I haven't verified [05:43] I can review some uploads, I've enough bugs on my list without xorg though [05:44] we have a bunch of people who can chip in a bit, but that's not really enough. [05:44] cjwatson: he merged a bunch of packages with experimental already [05:44] seb128: and you're already stretching more than last cycle now that you're doing ubuntu-archive stuff. [05:44] if we can get a plausible community effort behind it, we can do it [05:44] but someone in core-dev needs to be the point person for it [05:44] mdz: that'd need to happen fairly quickly though. If we have a team of interested people and merged packages in a week, it can happen. [05:44] tfheen: right, I clearly don't intend to spend much efforts on xorg [05:45] what's needed is to explain the requirements for making this happen for feisty, to the people working on it [05:45] somebody should post to -devel with such an explanation and calling for core-dev assistance [05:45] mdz, i'm willing to take point if i need to. [05:46] the question is if we think the 7.2 upload would bring bugs_fixed > new_bugs_brough [05:46] if that came from one of the core team it would have more impact [05:46] mdz: I can do that from a RM POV. [05:46] get a handle on the scope, estimate a reasonable deadline for completion, form a team which can plausibly respond to bug reports, etc. [05:46] i'm sure mjg59 will chip in too, he wants to see some of this stuff in feisty. [05:46] 7.2 doesn't include either input-hotplug or monitor-hotplug/randr 1.2; right? [05:46] Keybuk, correct, that's 7.2.1 ;-) [05:46] Keybuk: input-hotplug is easily mergable, but monitor-hotplug is 7.3, AIUI. [05:46] it surely brings heaps of hardware-related improvements though [05:46] still doable for feisty thoughh... [05:47] kylem: I don't want you doing much of the actual work, but I'd be happy if you're willing to coordinate [05:47] I would like to support the effort too [05:47] randr 1.2 needs xserver 1.2.1 which keithp has said he can have release ready for us... [05:47] some of the work will match up with your kernel bits of course [05:47] I'll try to help with forming a team and talk to tepsipakki - should the team present their efforts at the next TB meeting or something? [05:47] cjwatson, right, i don't want to do the actual work either. ;-P [05:47] cjwatson: would you write up the requirements for ubuntu-devel? formulate it so that someone needs to put their name in each of the necessary slots in order for it to be approved [05:47] dholbach: there is an X team already [05:47] dholbach: let's use that one [05:47] fabbione: where? [05:47] it's modular. the team should get whatever the hell they can into the archive in incremental stages that won't break the world [05:47] ubuntu-x-swat [05:48] dholbach: ubuntu-x-swat.. [05:48] yeah, but who's on that team? [05:48] not wait for a meeting :) [05:48] mdz: yes [05:48] cjwatson, i'm mostly just concerned about -intel for obvious reasons. [05:48] I didn't to intend to invent a new name [05:48] right [05:48] ACTION: cjwatson to post requirements for X.org 7.2 in feisty to -devel [05:48] dholbach: me... and a few others... people don't join it for fun === givr1 [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-59-175.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:48] at a minimum, this should require that the packagers and a couple of other folks step up to join the X team and follow up [05:48] how do we mae sure we dont need to roll back everything if they loose interest half way ? [05:48] *make [05:48] and someone on -core-dev to sponsor them [05:49] ogra: 16:47 < cjwatson> it's modular. the team should get whatever the hell they can into the archive in incremental stages that won't break the world [05:49] and we get a commitment from them [05:49] cjwatson, but if it does ? [05:49] this should be perfectly doable; our client-side and server-side stuff is already out of sync [05:49] ogra: we only need to roll back a package or two [05:49] mdz, exactly, thats what i mean [05:49] fabbione: we all agreed that we don't have somebody who looks after bugs at the moment... that's why I asked 'where' - I wrote the wiki pages for ubuntu-x-swat so I should know :) [05:49] I have many concerns, but they don't include needing to roll back everything [05:50] dholbach: right, i thought you wanted to create another LP team [05:50] cjwatson, mine neither, but being left with a half done update ... [05:50] ok, sounds like consensus to me [05:50] fabbione: no, not really [05:50] moving on [05:50] Keybuk: udev debugging? [05:50] still have to write that [05:50] ogra: half-done isn't actually all that bad in this case. Anyway, #ubuntu-devel [05:51] I'll try and get to it next week for the bug fixing push [05:51] udev debugging> shoot the author ? [05:51] Excuse me, I'm just a bit annoyed with it recently :-). [05:51] legal udev debugging [05:52] iwj: could you write up the problems you had with it [05:52] s/legal/helpful/ [05:52] it could be a useful thing for upstream [05:52] mdz: is that ok if I go now? I've guitar class in a few min [05:52] kay's a nice guy, he accepts helpful (and/or witty) criticism [05:52] if done with a constructive tone [05:52] Keybuk: Hmm. I'll write up a rant and then we can tone it down into something useful. [05:52] send it to me first; since I already have a working relationship with him [05:52] ok [05:52] ACTION iwj to write up summary of experiences debugging udev [05:52] While we're on udev, is anyone here affected by bug 83878 ? [05:52] Malone bug 83878 in udev "wrong permissions for /dev/null" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83878 [05:53] seb128: OK, but this meeting is scheduled for 1 hour, you should plan on being able to stay until the end [05:53] If so talk to me afterwards. [05:53] iwj: everyone is on and off; it tends to show up once in a while with a whole bunch of different causes [05:53] mdz: ok, will do for next time, thanks [05:53] sfllaw will e-mail distro-team@ about commercial package support [05:53] it's the most common symptom of "udevtrigger didn't get run" [05:53] Keybuk: Joy. [05:53] mdz: he's done that [05:53] this seems to have happened _during_ the meeting [05:53] hah [05:53] Yes. [05:53] Brinkmanship. :-) [05:53] I only noticed after reading the agenda. [05:54] iwj: sometimes caused by the udev init script being run multiple times [05:54] deliverables were mailed to distro-team after last week's meeting [05:54] doko to mail ubuntu-devel about which Python modules should be in main [05:54] judging from the odd /msg, doko has been investigating this today? [05:54] cjwatson: that was done *before* the meeting [05:55] aha, I didn't notice; I'm behind on -devel [05:55] doko: reference? [05:55] doko: you didn't follow-up to distro-team to say the action was done [05:55] (which is useful if your line manager hasn't caught up on other mailing lists :p) [05:55] Keybuk: hmm, ok === tsmithe [n=tsmithe@unaffiliated/tsmithe] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:55] cjwatson to chase up the set of core-devs who can help moderate ubuntu-devel and arrange for clear documentation [05:56] FYI, I've edited Simon's late update into the agenda [05:56] Keybuk: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-February/023235.html [05:56] I posted bullet points which should be sufficient for documentation [05:56] moderation> this is still not done, I'm afraid; I gave feature-freeze requirements precedence [05:56] heh, 20 seconds before the meeting doesn't count [05:56] please leave it on my action list for this week === remus_ [i=numers@c-4417e155.528-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:56] ok [05:56] tfheen: release readiness? [05:56] I've done some moderation and have filed some RT about whitelisting and spam [05:57] iwj, the /dev/null problem keeps HPLIP's hpssd from starting, bug 83924 [05:57] Malone bug 83924 in hplip "[apport] [feisty] hpssd crashed with IOError in daemonize()" [Medium,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83924 [05:57] tkamppeter: -> #ubuntu-devel, please === tepsipakki [n=tjaalton@replicant.hut.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:57] mdz: I'm a bit behind on looking at the spec status, but when I looked at it on Monday, it looked like about half the specs were good progress or better. [05:58] tfheen: blocker bugs? [05:58] I should probably have sent tollef the list of specs mdz and I wrote last week [05:59] Keybuk: yes, please. [05:59] that has whether they're likely to meet FF, slip but make the release, or miss [05:59] mdz: I'm behind on those as well, but I don't have any big problems on my radar. [05:59] I'm more interested in bugs, honestly [05:59] we can more easily release without a feature than with a major bug [06:00] there's a fair amount of polishing to be done such as NetworkManager needing a bit of love to handle suspend/resume reliably. [06:00] tfheen: have you received any high-profile issues from sfllaw, bdmurray or others in the past week? [06:00] we should target bugs at the feisty release? or at a milestone? [06:00] right, is there a process in place to flag bugs which you should be tracking? [06:00] Keybuk: if they're feasible for a milestone, milestone. === lfittl [n=lfittl@213.129.230.10] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:00] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+bugs [06:01] (has three 3 bugs) [06:01] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.04 [06:01] mdz: not a formal one, no. I'll get in touch with QA about it. [06:01] (has a whole bunch of bugs) [06:01] ACTION: tfheen to document bug escalation to release management [06:01] so far it has been "target stuff to a release/milestone" [06:02]