[12:29] Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3781 /trunk/ (12 files in 12 dirs): [12:29] Ubuntu Documentation: last one for today [12:29] Ubuntu Documentation: * update ubuntu omfs for CC-BY-SA 2.5 [12:29] Ubuntu Documentation: * update global.ent for 2.5 [12:29] Ubuntu Documentation: * update en legalnotice for 2.5 [12:29] if I see another license today I'm gonna puke === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Jucato [n=jucato@ubuntu/member/Jucato] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@ppp-69-221-252-203.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse_ [n=jjesse@ppp-69-221-252-203.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:54] Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r3782 generic/serverguide/C/file-server.xml: [02:54] Ubuntu Documentation: Fix for issue 75080. [02:54] Ubuntu Documentation: Include portmap package to be installed during NFS server installation. [02:54] Ubuntu Documentation: Reported by: Trey Ethridge === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-137-28.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Admiral_Chicago [n=Freddy@205.166.159.38] has joined #ubuntu-doc === j1mc [n=j1m@adsl-75-21-84-63.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse_ [n=jjesse@ppp-69-221-226-93.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === xipietotec [n=jackfros@194.115.109.66.static.dis.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@gray1.gbar.dtu.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@hald.gbar.dtu.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan_ [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:22] Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3783 debian/changelog: changelog entry [09:25] mdke: did you see my license commits? [09:26] LaserJock: yep, thanks a lot for those [09:27] Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and Edubuntu need a lot of changes [09:27] but I thought maybe I'd ask them first before mucking about with their files ;-) [09:28] good idea [09:28] but Ubuntu should be set I think [09:28] cool cheers [09:29] my good deed for the day ;-) === bhuvan_ is now known as bhuvan [09:29] hiya bhuvan [09:29] how's the serverguide going? [09:29] hello mdke [09:30] i've not yet started in full. but planning to do so this week end; i bet i'll commit something during this week end! [09:30] rock [09:32] bhuvan: is there a lot of work to do still? === glatzor [n=sebi@p54967641.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@242-147.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:08] mdke: i think so; i had to add material for couple of new topics viz. wiki, ldap, tomcat, drupal, etc. === Gwaihir [n=Gwaihir@mail.foredil.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Shubacka [n=olivier@194.206.177.80] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jenda [n=jenda@ubuntu/member/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@hald.gbar.dtu.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@hald.gbar.dtu.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@202.183.115.136] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@hald.gbar.dtu.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@hald.gbar.dtu.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@242-66.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru_ [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === silwol [n=silwol@193.170.68.74] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === willvdl [n=will@vc-196-207-41-253.3g.vodacom.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@217.74.211.126] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Gwaihir [n=Gwaihir@mail.foredil.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Admiral_Chicago [n=Freddy@205.166.159.38] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=jaagaan@johannesleroux.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Admiral_Chicago [n=Freddy@205.166.159.38] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@217.74.211.126] has joined #ubuntu-doc === willvdl [n=will@vc-196-207-41-253.3g.vodacom.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@242-66.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === xipietotec [n=jackfros@194.115.109.66.static.dis.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ryanakca [n=ryan@ubuntu/member/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-doc === trappist [i=trappist@linuxkungfu.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-200-45.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === XiXaQ [n=joerlend@237-191.dsl.freewave.no] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Laser_away [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Gwaihir [n=Gwaihir@mail.foredil.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === glatzor [n=sebi@p54967641.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === CIA-4 [i=cia@cia.navi.cx] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@cpc3-stok6-0-0-cust253.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:21] Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3784 edubuntu/handbook/C/introduction.xml: Will's Edubuntu introduction patch [04:23] willvdl: ^^ there you sir! [04:23] nixternal, chatting to pygi [04:23] thanks [04:23] ahh [04:23] how is he doing? === nixternal grabs a bat and takes the dog for a walk :) [04:24] chicago style [04:50] poor dog === motin [n=motin@84-217-185-66.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === willvdl [n=will@vc-196-207-41-253.3g.vodacom.co.za] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] [06:00] Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3785 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: added some network content === medders [n=matt@81.168.72.134] has joined #ubuntu-doc === linuxphotogeek [n=will@fw-dcise.ascensionhealth.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:39] svn having troubles or is just me? [07:40] version 3785 - every file has a status of "unknown" === Gwaihir [n=Gwaihir@ppp-43-74.25-151.libero.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jwhitlark [n=jwhitlar@h-67-102-70-2.snfccasy.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:23] quick question: has the translate.sh script been obsoleted? === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@242-222.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === penguinbrat [n=penguin@cpe-67-9-113-12.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:12] Hey all - how can I start helping out in documentation? [10:22] penguinbrat: do you have an idea of what kind of documentation you are interested in? [10:24] Hi, it would mainly be for the apps that come with ubuntu, for example KDE [10:25] ok [10:26] well, a lot of that's done by the upstream documentation team (like the KDE doc team) [10:26] but we do a fair amount to sort of pull it all together [10:27] penguinbrat: an HTML version of the current "in progress" documentation for Kubuntu can be seen at http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/C/index.html [10:28] Is that the standard for distro's - is to mainly go off what the individual teams put out? Teams as in those actually developing the product... === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:32] to a large extent yes [10:32] most distros don't write a lot of documentation for specific apps themselves [10:32] more like "How do I do ...?" [10:32] does that make sense? [10:34] Yeah, but it is just getting to old having to go to the internet and search for how to do somethihng - even if it is as simple as adding a contact in the address book. [10:35] well sure [10:35] that should be on your computer [10:36] either written by the software authors or the distro doc team [10:36] I'm just saying that there are two levels of documentation involved [10:36] one is the applications themselves, and we don't really handle that (although it is still interesting to us) [10:37] the other is the distro level, (what applications to use, how to get software, etc.) [10:37] and that's what we mostly do [10:37] hmm, well here is where Im coming from... [10:38] Ubuntu rocks in numerous ways, and the apps on Linux rock in numerous ways [10:38] but for someone who is not technicallys inclined - just knows how to point and click [10:39] would obviously really rely on documentation - All distro specialize in one thing or another - [10:40] sure [10:40] with there own graphics and everything, giving the look and feel - why couldn't the distro take up the slack in the documentation arena === xipietotec [n=jackfros@cpe-67-49-247-144.dc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:40] oh sure [10:40] we do quite a bit [10:41] we just let applications authors also do their part [10:41] so for you, you might end up working with both the Ubuntu doc team and the KDE doc team [10:41] did you look at that url I gave you? [10:42] yeah - and for an example, would be following the link to some of the games - it just gives a discription of what it is, not how to play it [10:42] right [10:43] we rely on the game authors to work on their documentation [10:43] we can certianly help [10:43] but it can become quite tricky [10:43] as we have several thousand different programs [10:44] we don't have the resources to document everythig [10:44] the wiki certainly helps [10:45] but we are nowhere near having full and usable documentation for every app [10:45] ofcourse, but we goit to start somewhere - I'm just thinking that the Docs is the one place LInux has always seriously lacked in, most developers are not that great in documentation [10:46] and as most apps are used in a variety of distros it makes sense that the documentation for them would be done not at the distro level, but at the application level [10:46] penguinbrat: sure, I agree [10:46] so hop on board and help out :-) [10:47] Give me an app or something to document =) [10:49] give me what you are interested in :-) [10:49] My thinking on doing it for the distro level is 1) give one team to deal with instead of dozens, and 2) I would think it would be the same as everything else - once we do it, the developers/other distros can snag it also... [10:49] well, yes and no [10:50] at this point the answer simply is that we don't have the resources (manpower) to do it [10:51] but there's certainly nothing wrong with working with software authors to get better documentation [10:51] don't get me wrong, I would expect that there aren't a lot of peeps wanting to do this - thats where I was getting at with starting somewhere =) [10:51] some of the issue is that sometimes software authors get a little upset when we just go messing around with their stuff [10:52] KDE has a pretty extensive doc team [10:52] if you want to work on KDE apps that's the place to go [10:52] we also have Kubuntu people in the doc team [10:52] for the distro-level docs [10:52] so it's all there [10:52] just not all at one place [10:55] KDE (or any developer) would really get upset if distro X spent some time and filled in all the gaps? [10:57] yep [10:57] the do it with the software [10:57] *they [10:57] they do it with the translations [10:57] it's just the nature of things [10:58] I mean, we can certianly work with the software authros [10:58] *authors [10:58] but distro and application level documentation is seperate [10:59] to change an applications documentation you have to change the applications source and packages [10:59] the distro documentation is all in one package [10:59] No wonder documentation is so lacking under LInux =( Why would documentation not be treated the same way as the code itself? [10:59] it is [10:59] same thing happens with code [10:59] forking? [11:00] not forking [11:00] but people get a bit upset when the distro starts adding and subtracting code [11:00] we try to have good communication and send patches back and forth [11:00] and that can certainly be done with documentation too [11:01] ok, so lets do a thought experiment here [11:01] say you want to improve the konsole documentation [11:01] what would you do? [11:01] That is what I'm referring to - I'm not talking about rewriting everything just write the stuff and of course give it to them for review and everything. [11:02] how would you do it? [11:02] sure, I'm saying that can be done [11:02] but coordinating with the app's authors [11:02] *by [11:02] we just don't do a lot of that because, as I said, we don't have the resources [11:03] but you are more than welcome to do it [11:04] I'll give it a shot - and I understand about the resources, that's why I'm stepping up =) [11:07] I don't want to rewrite anything, anything is better than nothing =) Would you recomend starting with a particular app, or just see what is out there - or rather not out there? [11:08] I would say look at something you really like using [11:09] but doesn't have very good documentation [11:09] cool [11:13] OK you GNOME freaks, quit sabotaging my Kubuntu documentation build process :) [11:13] I swore I fixed that before, and now it isn't building again. Ahh more work [11:13] nixternal: btw, did you seem my license commits for ubuntu docs? [11:13] LaserJock: I just did a quick "Call for Help" blog as well as some Wiki explanation to help fix the previous post by Mike Stemle [11:14] LaserJock: not yet, I just got home [11:14] if you want, fix Kubuntu's as well while you are at it :) [11:14] I was going to let you ;-) [11:14] I have to do some quick chores, then I will be doc hacking [11:14] My Lord, I have way to much doc work to get finished in a month [11:14] I just didn't want to change the license without confirming that it was indeed changing [11:14] ahh [11:15] CC-by-SA it is [11:15] 2.0 or 2.5? :) [11:15] 2.5 I think [11:15] I don't follow CC licensing all that much, so I am just following along on this one [11:16] I went to Fry's today, a huge electronics store. They sell Freespire/Linspire desktops and laptops [11:17] that rocks. Soon they will be Kubuntu based! [11:17] As soon as they come out, I will go buy one just to support the effort [11:17] I gotta go do some work and quit procrastinating [11:17] bbiaf [11:41] Is there suppose to be help documentation for the Adept Installer? [11:42] I think there is work being done on it [11:42] we did have an adept guide [11:42] that I think is being turned into the app documentation, or something like that [11:44] k [12:12] penguinbrat: jjesse is working on it for upstream