[12:29] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3781 /trunk/ (12 files in 12 dirs):
[12:29] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: last one for today
[12:29] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * update ubuntu omfs for CC-BY-SA 2.5
[12:29] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * update global.ent for 2.5
[12:29] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * update en legalnotice for 2.5
[12:29] <LaserJock> if I see another license today I'm gonna puke
[02:54] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r3782 generic/serverguide/C/file-server.xml:
[02:54] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Fix for issue 75080.
[02:54] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Include portmap package to be installed during NFS server installation.
[02:54] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Reported by: Trey Ethridge <tale@juno.com>
[09:22] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3783 debian/changelog: changelog entry
[09:25] <LaserJock> mdke: did you see my license commits?
[09:26] <mdke> LaserJock: yep, thanks a lot for those
[09:27] <LaserJock> Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and Edubuntu need a lot of changes
[09:27] <LaserJock> but I thought maybe I'd ask them first before mucking about with their files ;-)
[09:28] <mdke> good idea
[09:28] <LaserJock> but Ubuntu should be set I think
[09:28] <mdke> cool cheers
[09:29] <LaserJock> my good deed for the day ;-)
[09:29] <mdke> hiya bhuvan
[09:29] <mdke> how's the serverguide going?
[09:29] <bhuvan> hello mdke
[09:30] <bhuvan> i've not yet started in full. but planning to do so this week end; i bet i'll commit something during this week end!
[09:30] <mdke> rock
[09:32] <mdke> bhuvan: is there a lot of work to do still?
[10:08] <bhuvan> mdke: i think so; i had to add material for couple of new topics viz. wiki, ldap, tomcat, drupal, etc.
[04:21] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3784 edubuntu/handbook/C/introduction.xml: Will's Edubuntu introduction patch
[04:23] <nixternal> willvdl: ^^ there you sir!
[04:23] <willvdl> nixternal, chatting to pygi
[04:23] <willvdl> thanks
[04:23] <nixternal> ahh
[04:23] <nixternal> how is he doing?
[04:24] <nixternal> chicago style
[04:50] <willvdl> poor dog
[06:00] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3785 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: added some network content
[07:39] <linuxphotogeek> svn having troubles or is just me?
[07:40] <linuxphotogeek> version 3785 - every file has a status of "unknown"
[09:23] <Gwaihir> quick question: has the translate.sh script been obsoleted?
[10:12] <penguinbrat> Hey all - how can I start helping out in documentation?
[10:22] <LaserJock> penguinbrat: do you have an idea of what kind of documentation you are interested in?
[10:24] <penguinbrat> Hi, it would mainly be for the apps that come with ubuntu, for example KDE
[10:25] <LaserJock> ok
[10:26] <LaserJock> well, a lot of that's done by the upstream documentation team (like the KDE doc team)
[10:26] <LaserJock> but we do a fair amount to sort of pull it all together
[10:27] <LaserJock> penguinbrat: an HTML version of the current "in progress" documentation for Kubuntu can be seen at http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/C/index.html
[10:28] <penguinbrat> Is that the standard for distro's - is to mainly go off what the individual teams put out? Teams as in those actually developing the product...
[10:32] <LaserJock> to a large extent yes
[10:32] <LaserJock> most distros don't write a lot of documentation for specific apps themselves
[10:32] <LaserJock> more like "How do I do ...?"
[10:32] <LaserJock> does that make sense?
[10:34] <penguinbrat> Yeah, but it is just getting to old having to go to the internet and search for how to do somethihng - even if it is as simple as adding a contact in the address book.
[10:35] <LaserJock> well sure
[10:35] <LaserJock> that should be on your computer
[10:36] <LaserJock> either written by the software authors or the distro doc team
[10:36] <LaserJock> I'm just saying that there are two levels of documentation involved
[10:36] <LaserJock> one is the applications themselves, and we don't really handle that (although it is still interesting to us)
[10:37] <LaserJock> the other is the distro level, (what applications to use, how to get software, etc.)
[10:37] <LaserJock> and that's what we mostly do
[10:37] <penguinbrat> hmm, well here is where Im coming from...
[10:38] <penguinbrat> Ubuntu rocks in numerous ways, and the apps on Linux rock in numerous ways
[10:38] <penguinbrat> but for someone who is not technicallys inclined - just knows how to point and click
[10:39] <penguinbrat> would obviously really rely on documentation - All distro specialize in one thing or another -
[10:40] <LaserJock> sure
[10:40] <penguinbrat> with there own graphics and everything, giving the look and feel - why couldn't the distro take up the slack in the documentation arena
[10:40] <LaserJock> oh sure
[10:40] <LaserJock> we do quite a bit
[10:41] <LaserJock> we just let applications authors also do their part
[10:41] <LaserJock> so for you, you might end up working with both the Ubuntu doc team and the KDE doc team
[10:41] <LaserJock> did you look at that url I gave you?
[10:42] <penguinbrat> yeah - and for an example, would be following the link to some of the games - it just gives a discription of what it is, not how to play it
[10:42] <LaserJock> right
[10:43] <LaserJock> we rely on the game authors to work on their documentation
[10:43] <LaserJock> we can certianly help
[10:43] <LaserJock> but it can become quite tricky
[10:43] <LaserJock> as we have several thousand different programs
[10:44] <LaserJock> we don't have the resources to document everythig
[10:44] <LaserJock> the wiki certainly helps
[10:45] <LaserJock> but we are nowhere near having full and usable documentation for every app
[10:45] <penguinbrat> ofcourse, but we goit to start somewhere - I'm just thinking that the Docs is the one place LInux has always seriously lacked in, most developers are not that great in documentation
[10:46] <LaserJock> and as most apps are used in a variety of distros it makes sense that the documentation for them would be done not at the distro level, but at the application level
[10:46] <LaserJock> penguinbrat: sure, I agree
[10:46] <LaserJock> so hop on board and help out :-)
[10:47] <penguinbrat> Give me an app or something to document =)
[10:49] <LaserJock> give me what you are interested in :-)
[10:49] <penguinbrat> My thinking on doing it for the distro level is 1) give one team to deal with instead of dozens, and 2) I would think it would be the same as everything else - once we do it, the developers/other distros can snag it also...
[10:49] <LaserJock> well, yes and no
[10:50] <LaserJock> at this point the answer simply is that we don't have the resources (manpower) to do it
[10:51] <LaserJock> but there's certainly nothing wrong with working with software authors to get better documentation
[10:51] <penguinbrat> don't get me wrong, I would expect that there aren't a lot of peeps wanting to do this - thats where I was getting at with starting somewhere =)
[10:51] <LaserJock> some of the issue is that sometimes software authors get a little upset when we just go messing around with their stuff
[10:52] <LaserJock> KDE has a pretty extensive doc team
[10:52] <LaserJock> if you want to work on KDE apps that's the place to go
[10:52] <LaserJock> we also have Kubuntu people in the doc team
[10:52] <LaserJock> for the distro-level docs
[10:52] <LaserJock> so it's all there
[10:52] <LaserJock> just not all at one place
[10:55] <penguinbrat> KDE (or any developer) would really get upset if distro X spent some time and filled in all the gaps?
[10:57] <LaserJock> yep
[10:57] <LaserJock> the do it with the software
[10:57] <LaserJock> *they
[10:57] <LaserJock> they do it with the translations
[10:57] <LaserJock> it's just the nature of things
[10:58] <LaserJock> I mean, we can certianly work with the software authros
[10:58] <LaserJock> *authors
[10:58] <LaserJock> but distro and application level documentation is seperate
[10:59] <LaserJock> to change an applications documentation you have to change the applications source and packages
[10:59] <LaserJock> the distro documentation is all in one package
[10:59] <penguinbrat> No wonder documentation is so lacking under LInux =( Why would documentation not be treated the same way as the code itself?
[10:59] <LaserJock> it is
[10:59] <LaserJock> same thing happens with code
[10:59] <penguinbrat> forking?
[11:00] <LaserJock> not forking
[11:00] <LaserJock> but people get a bit upset when the distro starts adding and subtracting code
[11:00] <LaserJock> we try to have good communication and send patches back and forth
[11:00] <LaserJock> and that can certainly be done with documentation too
[11:01] <LaserJock> ok, so lets do a thought experiment here
[11:01] <LaserJock> say you want to improve the konsole documentation
[11:01] <LaserJock> what would you do?
[11:01] <penguinbrat> That is what I'm referring to - I'm not talking about rewriting everything just write the stuff and of course give it to them for review and everything.
[11:02] <LaserJock> how would you do it?
[11:02] <LaserJock> sure, I'm saying that can be done
[11:02] <LaserJock> but coordinating with the app's authors
[11:02] <LaserJock> *by
[11:02] <LaserJock> we just don't do a lot of that because, as I said, we don't have the resources
[11:03] <LaserJock> but you are more than welcome to do it
[11:04] <penguinbrat> I'll give it a shot - and I understand about the resources, that's why I'm stepping up =)
[11:07] <penguinbrat> I don't want to rewrite anything, anything is better than nothing =) Would you recomend starting with a particular app, or just see what is out there - or rather not out there?
[11:08] <LaserJock> I would say look at something you really  like using
[11:09] <LaserJock> but doesn't have very good documentation
[11:09] <penguinbrat> cool
[11:13] <nixternal> OK you GNOME freaks, quit sabotaging my Kubuntu documentation build process :)
[11:13] <nixternal> I swore I fixed that before, and now it isn't building again. Ahh more work
[11:13] <LaserJock> nixternal: btw, did you seem my license commits for ubuntu docs?
[11:13] <nixternal> LaserJock: I just did a quick "Call for Help" blog as well as some Wiki explanation to help fix the previous post by Mike Stemle
[11:14] <nixternal> LaserJock: not yet, I just got home
[11:14] <nixternal> if you want, fix Kubuntu's as well while you are at it :)
[11:14] <LaserJock> I was going to let you ;-)
[11:14] <nixternal> I have to do some quick chores, then I will be doc hacking
[11:14] <nixternal> My Lord, I have way to much doc work to get finished in a month
[11:14] <LaserJock> I just didn't want to change the license without confirming that it was indeed changing
[11:14] <nixternal> ahh
[11:15] <nixternal> CC-by-SA it is
[11:15] <LaserJock> 2.0 or 2.5? :)
[11:15] <nixternal> 2.5 I think
[11:15] <nixternal> I don't follow CC licensing all that much, so I am just following along on this one
[11:16] <nixternal> I went to Fry's today, a huge electronics store. They sell Freespire/Linspire desktops and laptops
[11:17] <nixternal> that rocks. Soon they will be Kubuntu based!
[11:17] <nixternal> As soon as they come out, I will go buy one just to support the effort
[11:17] <nixternal> I gotta go do some work and quit procrastinating
[11:17] <nixternal> bbiaf
[11:41] <penguinbrat> Is there suppose to be help documentation for the Adept Installer?
[11:42] <LaserJock> I think there is work being done on it
[11:42] <LaserJock> we did have an adept guide
[11:42] <LaserJock> that I think is being turned into the app documentation, or something like that
[11:44] <penguinbrat> k
[12:12] <nixternal> penguinbrat: jjesse is working on it for upstream