[12:26] BenC: hi! do you know of hand if grow for raid level 5 are implemented in the kernel yet? [12:31] Nafallo: grow by adding a disk? [12:31] if so, yes it is [12:31] nice. remember what kernel version? :-) [12:31] I have a user on #ubuntu-se that asks about it. running dapper :-P [12:31] I'm pretty sure edgy supported it [12:31] not sure about edgy [12:32] nice. I tell him to dist-upgrade and try then :-) [12:32] he wanted to compile 2.6.20 on dapper... [12:32] I guess thats a dumb idea? ;-) [12:32] no. it's fne. [12:33] booting it might be hard though. [12:33] 8) [12:33] lol [01:47] # CONFIG_MD_RAID5_RESHAPE is not set [01:47] :-P === philwyett [n=philwyet@bb-87-81-146-45.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [01:53] Nafallo: I said the kernel supported it...I didn't say it was enabled :P [01:53] :-) [01:53] I will enable it for feisty though [01:54] yay! [01:54] so the next kernel will have it? :-) === Nafallo won't update his server before beta or rc anyway ;-) [01:54] yeah === _human_blip_ [n=mike@202.83.118.25] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === tepsipakki [n=tjaalton@replicant.hut.fi] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [03:30] hey foks [03:30] hi zul === neuralis [n=krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === kylem [i=kyle@fruit.freedesktop.org] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === rpereira [n=rpereira@ubuntu/member/rpereira] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === human_blip [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [04:38] BenC, did you mean to send that to ubuntu-dveel? === Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === holycow [n=a@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === holycow [n=a@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === sky_walkie [n=hrdlo@193.85.244.121] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === sky_walkie [n=hrdlo@193.85.244.121] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === sky_walkie [n=hrdlo@193.85.244.121] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === cassidy [n=cassidy@host-213-189-171-21.brutele.be] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === ivoks [n=ivoks@backup.grad.hr] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [10:19] anyone has an idea why linux-image packages in dapper and edgy depend on non-exsisting kernels? :) [10:20] ivoks: soyuz issue, being addressed [10:20] thanks [10:20] ivoks: see #ubuntu-devel topic [10:22] thanks once again :) === sky_walkie [n=hrdlo@193.85.244.121] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === ivoks [n=ivoks@backup.grad.hr] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === pmjdebruijn [n=pmjdebru@pmjdebruijn.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === joumetal [n=mettala@letku30.adsl.netsonic.fi] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === pkl_ [n=phillip@lougher.demon.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === human_blip [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === ICU [n=me@host-95173.ewetel.de] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [01:47] kylem: No, the guy that sent it to me Cc's -devel, and I just reply-to-all and sent the reply there to [01:47] he got moderated, I didn't :/ === poningru [n=poningru@adsl-074-245-140-197.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [01:48] so in edgy there is a dependency error that came up today [01:48] I will go away soon [01:48] k [01:49] did you want the error? [01:49] just making sure [01:49] thanks [01:50] what happened I just got up :) [01:51] poningru: You mean the linux-meta packages not being satisfied by a proper kernel to install...it's known [01:51] s/I/it/ too :) [01:51] I wont go anywhere [01:51] BenC: thats the one [01:52] thanks [01:52] :) [01:52] heh by the number of bug reports there is alot people who use linux-meta :) [01:52] well its -generic-header and -generic for me [01:52] but yeah [01:52] the -meta packages [01:53] zul: linux-generic is installed by default on people's systems === ..[topic/#ubuntu-kernel:BenC] : Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | 2.6.20-7.13 Uploaded - Things are getting solid now. Use it, but there are still a few missing modules. === ivoks [n=ivoks@backup.grad.hr] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === rpereira [n=rpereira@ubuntu/member/rpereira] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === MadMan2k [n=pavel@L0388.l.pppool.de] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [02:15] might I ask a non directly development related question? [02:16] why do I get 500MB of modules when I compile the kernel myself using make-kpkg, while the official linux_image is only 70MB? [02:19] I used oldconfig [02:20] MadMan2k: because you compile all varians (generic, i386, bigiron, lowlatency...) [02:22] makes sense :) [02:23] Lure: if I append "--arch generic" will it give me generic only? [02:23] MadMan2k: generic+lowlatency (afair), but I build directly on git [02:32] is there a list of parameters with which the official kernels are being built? [02:32] I basically only want to apply 2 patches and leave everything else as is. === rikai_ [n=rikai@unaffiliated/rikai] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === `ph8 [i=henri@rigel.orion-hosting.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === tumbleweed [n=stefanor@sirius.stratexnet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [03:25] BenC, ah ok === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [03:30] hello [03:31] hi dholbach [03:31] dholbach: hu [03:31] from -6 to -7 it seems that my skge eth0 is not automatically enabled anymore - does anybody know what I could do to debug this? [03:32] you means it's recognised (ifconfig eth0 reports it), but it is not configured? [03:33] no, with -7, I have to sudo ifconfig eth0 up it myself) [03:33] then I get a message in syslog that it got enabled [03:35] so, once you've brought it up, it is okay, and it is configured? How do you get your IP address? [03:35] I run sudo dhclient === tumbleweed [n=stefanor@sirius.stratexnet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === rikai_ [n=rikai@unaffiliated/rikai] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === MadMan2k [n=pavel@L0388.l.pppool.de] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === human_blip [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === cassidy [n=cassidy@host-213-189-171-21.brutele.be] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === kylem [i=kyle@fruit.freedesktop.org] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-067-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === n0u [i=Chaton@unaffiliated/nou] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === mdz [n=mdz@cpe-76-173-8-128.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === thom [n=thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === snail [n=syeates@syeates.oucs.ox.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === sevrin [n=sevrin@202.75.186.154] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Nafallo [n=nafallo@ubuntu/member/nafallo] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === infinity [n=adconrad@cerberus.0c3.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Traxer|on [i=traxer@shell6.powershells.de] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === smurf [n=smurf@debian/developer/smurf] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === `ph8 [i=henri@rigel.orion-hosting.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === pkl_ [n=phillip@lougher.demon.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === stgraber [n=stgraber@unaffiliated/stgraber] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === fs [i=fs@213.178.77.98] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === kriebly [n=moho@wisdom.Stanford.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [03:40] if you run wget http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/dmesg-{6,7}; diff -u dmesg-{6,7} | less you will see the difference in what's happening [03:40] ok, I was going to suggest a dmesg when you all disappeared... [03:40] there's also the output of lspci -vvnn if you want that ( wget http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/vvnn-{6,7} ) [03:41] (just look for skge at the bottom) === rpereira [n=rpereira@ubuntu/member/rpereira] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [04:01] pkl_: you think I should file this as a bug? [04:08] dholbach: it's definately a bug, but not sure in what though. [04:09] dholbach: I'll have a look into how network interfaces are detected and brought up in Ubuntu. What version of Ubuntu are you using? [04:14] pkl_: feisty, 2.6.20-7-generic on amd64 [04:14] it's not terribly urgent, I can still use -6 - just didn't know if you need a bug report for that or how you proceed from there === Eruantalon [n=hans@86.52.24.92] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [04:22] dholbach: I'm not sure either (having not been here long). Personally I would raise a bug report. === _human_blip_away [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [04:23] ok, I'll do that [04:23] and I'll try on my i386 later on, if it happens there too === bxero [n=tarq@210.192.83.89] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === bxero [n=fere@ppp85-141-253-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [04:30] bug 84218 - if you need more information, yell :) === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-kernel [] === _human_blip_away [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === fvaler [n=stane@220.78.239.141] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [04:47] dholbach: So the module loads, and the device is present in ifconfig -a, it just doesn't get configured? [04:47] dholbach: And going back to -6 (same userspace) works as expected? [04:48] -6 works as expected - I didn't try ifconfig -a , plain ifconfig didn't show it [04:48] I can reboot and try, if you like [04:49] yeah, without -a, you'll only see the ones that are up [04:49] if -a shows the device, then it's obviously working from the kernel side [04:49] just un moment [04:52] it comes up in the dmesg as recognised, but, it doesn't get configured. === philwyett [n=philwyet@bb-87-81-146-45.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [04:53] try the sky2 module instead. [04:53] it gets shown on ifconfig -a [04:54] kylem: I modprobed it, but still it doesn't get configured === human_blip [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [04:55] BenC, kylem, pkl_: any more info I can get you? [04:56] dholbach: If it gets loaded and recognized, the kernel pretty much did it's job [04:56] hum [04:57] no idea why booting one or the other would change that, unless some uevent is missing [04:57] do you use ifupdown, or network-manager? [04:57] the latter === human_blip [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [05:01] dholbach: Try ifupdown...if that works on both, then I suspect network-manager is being picky [05:01] looks like the output of lshal changed completely [05:01] maybe the backend driver for skge needs to be updates for some trivial change [05:02] maybe network-manager doesn't like that, nm doesn't seem to know about eth0 at all [05:02] oh. === kylem didn't realize it was actually coming up properly. [05:04] do you think it makes sense to attach the lshal logs and reassign to network-manager? [05:04] yeah. [05:04] okay [05:08] kylem, BenC, pkl_: thanks again - I reassigned it. [05:08] ok. cool. [05:09] dholbach, so it worked if you manually dhclient it? [05:09] yes [05:09] ok. weird. ok. [05:09] sudo ifconfig eth0 up && sudo dhclient makes it happy [05:09] (then I have to restart all the nm bits, so gnome knows it can download mails and browse porn, etc.) [05:09] b0ng [05:10] hehe === pmjdebruijn [n=pmjdebru@pmjdebruijn.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === MadMan2k [n=pavel@L0388.l.pppool.de] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [05:22] my self-compiled kernels (make-kpkg/ oldconfig) are always bloated at ~500MB. how can I make it compile as small as the official kernels? [05:23] MadMan2k, erh, that's extremely weird [05:23] MadMan2k, make-kpkg should produce just as small kernels [05:24] MadMan2k: if you are using the ubuntu config, disable CONFIG_DEBUG_INFO [05:24] we have it enabled so that we can get the linux-debug images [05:24] for oprofile and such [05:24] that might be it [05:25] gonna try it later - thx [05:25] hey guys have you ever had reports of freezing lenovo 300 laptop on ntpdate cmd [05:25] but we strip the vmlinux and *.ko's after the build [05:25] maks_: Not that I can recall, but check launchpad [05:27] kylem: do you have an ia64? [05:27] not accessible, no. [05:28] the new acx driver fails to build on ia64 because of the WLAN_* compat for it went missing...my i2k is dead for some reason [05:28] maybe I can dig it up from git [05:29] hmm. [05:30] got it [05:35] Benc: ok thanks [05:39] Bugs in Linux: No results for search ntpdate [05:52] kylem: I need you to set your umask on rookery to 664 at least for push's [05:53] eh? what happened? [05:53] kylem: And then run "chmod g+w . -R" in /srv/kernel-team/private/edgy-ubuntu.git [05:54] kylem: perms blocking me on that git tree [05:54] on .git/HEAD? [05:54] No, objects [05:55] uh.. [05:55] well, i got a pile of -EPERM, but done. [05:55] weird [05:55] -r--rw-r-- 1 kyle kernel_team 2055 Jan 22 13:05 0244a8d6ba0bdda6f4c15484843d349a6ed68b [05:55] i don't see how you could be pushing the same objects as me. [05:56] did you have a 464 umask? :) [05:56] no. [05:56] 002. [05:56] er, 022 [05:56] now it's 002 [05:56] doh, writing inverted masks [05:56] I meant 002, right [05:57] eh? [05:57] ITYM 202 [05:57] i'm confused. [05:57] Ben meant to ask if your umask was 202, I believe [05:57] when I said your umask, I wrote 664, I mean 002 [05:57] i figured. [05:57] and then the 646 one [05:57] unable to write sha1 filename ./objects/95/30784fabf34b7c01b564f2ad3d2b14100097b6: Permission denied [05:57] that's what I got when pushing [05:58] must be a dir with the wrong perms. [05:58] not sure why it wouldn't let me create that object...maybe it'll work now [05:58] drwxrwsr-x 2 kyle kernel_team 4096 Feb 9 16:57 ./objects/95/ [05:58] that's... right though. [05:58] yeah, that works now [05:59] sorry, i'm trying to clean my inbox a bit atm. [05:59] all the canonical private lists missed my procmail rules since i started, so i'm trying to sort a bit. [05:59] good luck...I hate cleaning my inbox more than I hate taking our the garbage [05:59] hehe. [06:00] ---Mutt: /var/mail/cjwatson [Msgs:9906 New:638 Old:1168 Post:9 Inc:52 79M] ---(threads/date)--- [06:00] i finally worked up the balls to expire everything more than a year old from my synched maildir. [06:00] cjwatson: wow, my 19 emails seems a little humbled by that :) === BenC has gotten liberal with the DEL key lately [06:02] hmm, i really don't need to be on activity@ anymore... [06:03] yay, two successful builds for 7.13 [06:03] gah.. [06:04] http://www.devxnews.com/article.php/3658001 [06:04] xensource is not looking into getting included in upstream [06:05] "legacy virtualization"?!?! [06:05] heh.. [06:05] "It lacks the benefits of para-virtualization performance enhancements that have been pioneered by Xen and are now being copied by VMware and Microsoft"!?!?!! [06:05] what kind of crack is this guy on? [06:05] dunno [06:05] "Pratt also explained that Xen is no longer actively seeking inclusion in the mainline Linux kernel either." [06:05] lovely [06:08] i think that's kind o fbullshit. [06:08] it's a load of something, and it smells like my yard...bullshit sounds like a good guess [06:08] hah. [06:09] I think xensource likes Xen being hard and not integrated [06:09] xen likes to make me bald [06:09] i think xensource wishes it was still a research project. [06:09] I think it still is [06:10] they seem to be trying very hard to make it a commercial product... === _human_blip_away [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [06:21] cynically, a lot of the para-vitualisation work that has gone into the kernel for kvm/Lguest may conflict with Xen. They've had a lot of resistance to how they do things on lkml, and may not wish to change their code to be more inline with kvm/Lguest changes. [06:21] only a guess, but nothing else makes sense IMHO [06:22] paravirt isn't supposed to get rid of conflicts [06:22] err, is supposed to [06:23] Xen/KVM/VMI should all be able to live together if paravirt is implemented correctly [06:23] yeah, which is why it doesn't make sense why they don't want to cooperate. [06:24] It's odd how they can use paravirt as a selling point for them and against the other implementations in the same sentence [06:24] they are trying to cooperate [06:24] http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/virtualization/2007-February/002004.html [06:24] but maybe they don't. It may simply be sour grapes, they've been trying to get it accepted for two years, and a jhonny-come-lately has gone in with much less trouble. [06:25] the johnny-come-lately was... several MEGABYTES less delta to the core kenrle. [06:26] they say that kvm lacks paravirtualization, when that's simply not true...it's not in 2.6.20, but it's there [06:26] heh, but they're probably coming from the direction that their several megabytes more delta was valid... [06:26] bullshit. [06:26] not to mention that kvm needs a lot less paravirt enhancement for the same performance, when the implementation is complete [06:27] they diverted huge swaths of core kernel code with #ifdefs instead of creating new abstractions. [06:27] they shouldn't have to look too far to see why they never did, and probably never will get merged as it stands now. [06:27] Is the Xen code in Linux not just for the case where you want to run a paravirtualised Linux under Xen? [06:27] the xen para-virt domU patch was horribly large and touched way to much core kernel [06:28] I almost got hired to do ACPI support in Xen [06:28] mjg59, i don't recall how much the dom0 stuff mucked with. [06:28] mjg59: No, up until recently, the Xen kernel stuff was dom0(hypervisor) and domU support all together [06:28] Oh. Well, unsurprising that they lose. [06:28] I'm not defending them, but I know how Cambridge university types think (having worked there). [06:28] pkl_: I'm still a Cambridge university type :) [06:28] someone took the time to pull out the domU stuff with paravirt, but it was still a 500k patch, and touched > 150 files of core kernel [06:29] Eurgh. [06:29] i think i'm ruined by being a kernel hacker first, and an academic second. i've been doing this since long before i started uni. ;P [06:29] mjg59: really, you work at the Computer Laboratory? [06:29] pkl_: No, I'm a geneticist [06:30] no one knows why mjg59 works on the kernel considering his field of study :) [06:30] A lot of people at Cambridge have a superiority complex. They may simply hate having come 2nd. [06:30] BenC, masochism was my best guess. [06:31] mjg59: do it! acpi is what I lack in XEN ;-) [06:31] Nafallo: Nnngh. [06:31] pkl_, 2nd to what? [06:31] Rusty. [06:31] hm, second to kvm. [06:31] Heh [06:31] oh. [06:31] Ian Pratt is actually really nice [06:32] Mind you, I say that about most people who've bought me booze [06:32] lol [06:32] Yes, I used to know Ian Pratt, we went out drinking together in Cambridge several times each week for months whilst I worked there. [06:33] mjg59, that's a pretty good system [06:33] Ian Pratt was finishing off his PhD, while I was working there as a post-doc. [06:38] Ian Pratt went on to get a college fellowship, while I realised without a Cambridge PhD there was liitle chance of progression (and I too old to apply for a college fellowship). I got my PhD from Lancaster University, which at that time was doing multimedia computing research comparable to Cambridge. I decided to go to Acorn to design a new multimedia operating system for them. They went bust 2 years later, the operating system got cancelled [06:38] , and the rest is history. [06:39] I want to be the bestest kernel hacker with a genetics PhD in the world ever [06:39] i think you already are, minus the phd part. [06:39] but if you'd stop wasting your time with acpi maybe you could get that done. ;P [06:39] Bah. [06:40] I've written 150 lines of perl today. [06:40] That's most of a paper. [06:40] hehe. [06:40] why is perl so popular in biology? [06:40] because fortran is old-fashioned? [06:40] Because most genetics is just writing the right regexp [06:40] pfft. fortran is a fine language. [06:41] I used fortran for a couple of things in 1985. It was extremely popular at time in Physics and Engineering :-( === kylem had to learn fortran a few years ago to help some friends debug some satellite simulation crap. painful. [06:42] ancient code from goddard... in F77... [06:42] (this was like, in 2001, F95 had been around for... a while...) [06:42] mjg59: BTW which department is in the New Museums site now the computer lab has moved? [06:43] pkl_: Various people grabbed it [06:43] Bits of archaeology, zoology, the computing service, materials... [06:43] kylem: at least you've never had to learn/use COBOL. COBOL 66 lovely :-) [06:44] heh. i've never even seen cobol code. [06:44] BenC, this looks bad: [06:44] Rejected: [06:44] UploadError escaped upload.process: File linux-source-2.6.17_2.6.17.1-11.35.dsc [06:44] as mentioned in the changes file was not found. [06:44] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [06:45] kylem: talk to pitti...might have something to do with the security>proposed pocket fixes [06:45] sigh. [06:45] maybe he didn't get all the files into the queue [06:45] kylem: you dont want to...believe me...they still teach it at algonquin when i was there [06:45] Algonquin...I love saying that name [06:45] cobol or fortran? [06:45] My MBP should be turning up on Monday [06:45] pkl_: both [06:45] It seems to take years for Intel to get round to posting stuff [06:45] mjg59, it's hot. enjoy OS X. [06:45] :P [06:46] yuck, at least fortran is concise. Cobol is a managers idea of a programming language, things are grouped together in parapgraphs. And each line of code is a sentence. No joke... [06:47] yow. [06:47] pkl: heh i still remember the four dvisions of cobol thats about it [06:47] Perform para1 thru para8 varying counter by 1 until counter equals 10. or something like that is a for statement. === kylem cries. [06:51] yeah, the "initialization division". Try typing that from the UK, and more often than not you type "initialisation division". On a batch processing system, when compiles are added during the day, and run at night in batch mode, you can wait a whole day to find you've used a 's' rather than a 'z' :-( [06:51] BenC: 84238 - we should get 2.6.17 removed === _human_blip_away [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [06:54] the computer lab was never all that much of the new museums site anyway [06:55] I mean, the tower and stuff, yeah, but I kept finding new departments on the NMS that I'd never previously heard of [06:55] the place is a TARDIS [06:56] huh, 2.6.17 isn't gone already? [06:57] Well, either that or the user is awfully confused [06:57] BenC: ack linux-source-2.6.17 removal from feisty? [06:57] yeah, I meant the bit of the NMS that the lab occupied. All the 'junk' than had accumulated had to go somewhere, the cap computer was still stuck in a corridor when I was there. [06:57] cjwatson: Sure, was just looking into filing a bug for it :) [06:57] it does seem like a bug that we break 2.6.17's initramfs with feisty's tools, though [06:57] cjwatson: can you remove xen-source-2.6.17 as well? [06:57] that will surely cause upgrade pain [06:58] zul: what's current in feisty? [06:59] 2.6.19 === human_blip [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-112-142.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [06:59] oh [06:59] he ran mkinitrd [07:00] not mkinitramfs === cjwatson reassigns to initrd-tools [07:03] zul: oh, I was confused by the source package being just 'xen-source' now [07:03] BenC,zul: done [07:03] cjwatson: thanks.. === _human_blip_away [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === rikai_ is now known as rikai [07:07] cjwatson: thanks [07:21] bochs? [07:42] mjg59, fwd'd the mail from alan to you and ben. i'll try cooking a patch up on monda. [07:47] kylem: is that email about the para_acpi driver? [07:47] para -> pata [07:48] no. HPA. [07:48] kylem: It's a pretty tiny amount of code [07:48] okay, the protected area stuff? [07:49] kylem: I suspect that the difficult bit is just getting it into a state where the libata guys will take it [07:49] pkl_: Yp [07:49] can you forward it me as well then? I am apparently part of the kernel-team now? [07:50] email? [07:52] ah, that's what you said it was. [07:52] i was asking for your address, but i went and fetched it anyway. [07:53] oh good :-) phillip.lougher@canonical.com would have worked. [07:54] BenC: could you have a look at bug 84094? symlinks seem to be buggered after installation [07:57] kylem: Diolch yn fawr... (that's thanks very much BTW in Welsh, as its about Alan). [07:59] cjwatson: checking... [08:04] the linux kernel is more often than not in C or c++? [08:04] C isn't it [08:04] All in C [08:05] C and a small amount of assembler [08:05] Excellent [08:05] So only the windows kernel is in c++? [08:05] atleast large chunks of it are [08:05] No, Symbian (used on mobile phones) is C++ [08:06] which would you guys p refer to use [08:06] Or a bastardised variant anyway. [08:06] c/c++ as far as the kernel goes? [08:07] C is lower-level, allows more exposure to the underlying architecture, is more efficient. I wouldn't use C++ for anything personally. [08:08] eh? anything you can do for a kernel in C, you can do in C++, you can even use almost all C++ language features in a kernel... [08:08] ok personally that sounds fine [08:08] kylem: exactly [08:08] that said, i hate C++ with a firey burning hatred. [08:08] why? [08:09] Mac OS X is written mostly in C++. [08:09] I really dont understand this [08:09] large chunks of windows is written in c++ as well [08:09] because for a kernel, it's overkill unless you are a really lazy person. [08:09] the only real benefit to Linux would be implicit "this" pointer for function pointers in a struct [08:09] BUt it doesn;t lack anything C can do it can't [08:09] so you don't have crap like, sb->someop(sb, ...); [08:10] g++ is slower than dragging source lines through molasses anyways. [08:11] this is a religous way, arguments for and against C and C++ can be made. I've never liked C++ as it encourages abstraction and information hiding when in the kernel you don't anything that bloats or makes it slower. [08:11] way -> war [08:12] c++ also encourages overuse of function pointers, which are pretty nasty on most processors. [08:13] kylem: actually i dont think you can use c+= for kernel [08:13] neither on windows or linux [08:13] The difficulty is controlling linkage for things such as template instantiations [08:13] you can. [08:13] you have to disable rtti. [08:13] http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/driver/kernel/KMcode.mspx#EDE [08:14] C++ has RTTI. [08:14] The only C++ I'm familiar with in the Linux kernel is a huge pile of junk that the linuxant drivers wedge in [08:14] ... [08:14] C++ without RTTI isn't C++. Furthermore, that's far from the only problem. [08:14] C++ is probably better for large projects with clear separation between components developed by multiple teams. Often the gain in development is compensation for the (potential) loss of performance [08:14] ok, you're either dense, or an idiot. [08:15] one way or another, you're wrong, and this is off-topic. [08:15] kylem: i'm sorry? [08:15] C++ has RTTI === FabioNET [i=500@217.201.45.179] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [08:15] -f-no-rtti [08:15] welcome to my /ignore. [08:15] Woah [08:15] yes, this off-topic [08:16] Offtopic maybe but we're talking about the kernel actually [08:16] Just in C++ [08:16] kickban someone? [08:16] Peopple who disagree with you are idiots always? [08:16] http://netlab.ru.is/exception/LinuxCXX.shtml [08:17] fvaler: Two issues: [08:17] fvaler: You're wrong that C++ can't be used in the kernel. It's just that if you do it, nobody will ever speak to you again. [08:17] fvaler: And secondly, this channel is for discussion of development of the Ubuntu kernel, not generic kernel issues [08:18] I understand but name calling over something he disagrees with is preposterous [08:18] Not mature [08:18] let's read his link anyway [08:18] fvaler: I've never treated anyone as an idiot for simply disagreeing. [08:18] Well, it's not a disagreement. It's a statement of fact. [08:18] But that's unimportant. [08:18] Ok [08:19] kylem: That research is about changing the linux kernel to support C++. [08:20] Note the implication that it doesn't support it. [08:20] It still doesn't. [08:20] it never will. because it's a shitty language. now GO AWAY. [08:20] take it to #kernelnewbies. [08:20] ok enough...this is totally offtopic [08:22] I'm at kernelnewbies [08:22] And they agree with what I said it simply doesn't [08:23] ENOUGH [08:24] fvaler: Basic idea is that whether or not C++ will work, or can work in the linux kernel is completely irrelevant to this channel, and most people here probably feel that the topic is more trolling than anything [08:25] BenC: I gave up wrt to the topic and pretty much done [08:25] fvaler, look, i'm sorry, but i /HAVE WRITTEN/ linux kernel c++ code before. classes and all. that's clearly C++. i don't want to argue anymore. [08:25] That paper doesn't say anything [08:25] The paper I gave you is about using C++ in ways that are compatible with the kernel; the point is that C++ isn't supported. [08:25] But yeah ok. [08:26] maybe not fully, but you can certainly get by. [08:29] Not for the sake of arguing but lots of people have written C++ code for a kernel, and even more have compiled C code with a C++ compiler for a kernel [08:29] Dude my only point is it has no bearing on whether C++ is a language supported by the kernel. === johanbr [n=j@JBrannlund.MathStat.Dal.Ca] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === ropenm [n=salort@220.78.239.141] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-kernel [] === human_blip [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === _human_blip_away [n=mike@202.83.118.27] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === sdrik` [n=sdrik@ip-93-4.dsl.newel.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === sdrik [n=sdrik@ip-93-4.dsl.newel.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel