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[02:34] <_ion> I posted a debdiff to bug #84284.
[02:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84284 in usplash "Fiesty: libusplash0 failed to unpack" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84284
[02:37] <pochu> fiesty :)
[02:37] <pochu> let's make a fiesta :)
[02:39] <zakame> ++pochu :)
[02:40] <pochu> if anybody doesn't know... fiesta is party in spanish... so I love feisty...fiesty! :)
[02:40] <Fujitsu> Aha, so it's a partyish, young deer.
[02:41] <pochu> indeed ;)
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[03:24] <simple_x> Quisiera saber si existe alguna explicacin fcil para instalar en mi ubuntu el xgl y compiz en una tarjeta de vdeo Intel GMA 900
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[03:31] <bhale> simple_x: preguntas en espanol a #ubuntu-es
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[06:05] <FantasticFoo> sorry if this doesn't directly have to do with the development of feisty, but, i do have a programming-related question: if i have a newer version of a certain library installed in /usr, and an older version of a certain library in /usr/local, how do i compile a program from source against the old version in /usr/local ? apparently the configure script doesn't have any options specific to this library
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[06:05] <FantasticFoo> how do i edit the source to link to the proper lib
[06:06] <Nafallo> FantasticFoo: #ubuntu question. sorry, this is not a supportchannel, as stated in the topic.
[06:08] <FantasticFoo> oh ok, sorry. its just that its so active and its a hard question to answer, so my question gets shoved up on conversation out of side real fast
[06:09] <FantasticFoo> site*
[06:09] <FantasticFoo> well later dudes
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=== mpt wonders whether it would make sense to split #ubuntu into #ubuntu1, #ubuntu2, #ubuntu3, etc
[06:18] <stdin> and have #ubuntu redirect to one of them?
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[06:26] <mpt> stdin, yes
[06:27] <stdin> sounds like a good idea, it's often manic in there
[06:27] <Chipzz> no imho
[06:28] <Chipzz> what we need is not #ubuntu1, #ubuntu2 etc
[06:28] <Chipzz> what we need is #ubuntu-newbie, #ubuntu-advanced
[06:28] <mpt> that could work
[06:28] <stdin> and what will be the default for xchat ?
[06:28] <Chipzz> ubuntu-newbie, obviously
[06:29] <Chipzz> an advanced user would *KNOW* how to join another channel
[06:29] <stdin> hmm, yeah
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[08:20] <dholbach> good morning
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[09:50] <jenda> hello
[09:50] <jenda> ho is in charge of the Examples directory for Feisty?
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=== tsmithe isn't acquanted with ho :P
[09:51] <jenda> How can the Marketing Team infiltrate? :)
[09:51] <jenda> *who
[09:51] <tsmithe> *acquainted
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[10:00] <dholbach> jenda: if you file a bug on the package, heno and I will look at it
[10:01] <jenda> dholbach: ok, cool, thx
[10:01] <dholbach> jenda: (I merely did the packaging and uploading)
[10:01] <jenda> is there a simple way of checking the current contents, withotu having to install feisty?
[10:02] <dholbach> I doubt it changed from edgy to feisty
[10:02] <dholbach> no, it didn't: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/example-content
[10:02] <jenda> ok
[10:02] <jenda> thx
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[11:29] <tepsipakki> sheesh, what to do with xbase-clients.. debian has a "traditional" package which bundles all of them together, whereas in ubuntu they are in separate packages and xbase-clients is a meta-packages which depends on them
[11:30] <tepsipakki> -s
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[11:39] <Chipzz> tepsipakki: I'ld keep the seperate packages
[11:39] <Chipzz> I like the seperate packages *a lot* :)
[11:40] <tepsipakki> chipzz: do you have xbase-clients installed?-)
[11:41] <slomo> BenC: is it a known problem that the via ide driver is broken, even with 2.6.20-7?
[11:43] <tepsipakki> Chipzz: if you have ubuntu-desktop installed, you have xbase-clients as well via a dependency
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[11:50] <Chipzz> tepsipakki: I do not on one box, and I don't want it there either
[11:51] <Chipzz> it's a mythtv box, custom install, and I definitely do not want all of xbase-clients installed there
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[11:51] <Chipzz> tepsipakki: also, having the possibility of having only xauth installed is a *MAJOR* blessing
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[11:52] <Chipzz> (xauth is necessary for ssh remote X)
[11:53] <Chipzz> and no I don't have ubuntu-desktop installed on my desktop either
[11:53] <Chipzz> since it depends on openoffice, it's the very first thing that gets nuked of my system after a fresh install
[11:53] <Chipzz> (no I don't like openoffice one bit :P)
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[11:56] <tepsipakki> well, I don't know if it's worth the delta
[11:56] <Chipzz> the ssh remote X case is a very strong case IMO
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[11:58] <Chipzz> and xbase-clients depends on a lot of stuff, half of which you'll never even use, and all of these dependencies pull in a lot of libraries
[11:59] <Chipzz> so not having xbase-clients split up can really bloat your system
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[12:00] <tepsipakki> xbase-clients contains (quickly counting) over 70 packages, so maintaining them separately is a big pain in the arse
[12:01] <tepsipakki> I wonder why it's ok for debian ;)
[12:01] <Chipzz> I'll file a bug requesting a split if you merge it anyway :P
[12:01] <tepsipakki> I don't have a say in this
[12:01] <tepsipakki> since I'm not the maintainer :P
[12:02] <tepsipakki> but the current split was done before debian had 7.0+
[12:02] <tepsipakki> -+
[12:03] <Chipzz> I can think of 2 reasons not to split it up: 1) it already is split up, the work is done, and the delta will be mostly in the control file anyway 2) most of the utilities in xbase-clients don't tend to change a lot anyway
[12:03] <Chipzz> well some do, xrandr maybe
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[12:06] <Chipzz> point being, I suspect it's easier to apply the upstream diff than the debian diff
[12:06] <tepsipakki> on 70 packages?
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[12:07] <Chipzz> heh?
[12:08] <Chipzz> I'm not sure if all of these utilities are bundled upstream
[12:08] <Chipzz> in case they are: you only have one diff
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[12:08] <Chipzz> in case the aren't: debian is doing something weird to upstream packaging anyway
[12:08] <tepsipakki> they are separate, that's the point
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[12:09] <tepsipakki> debian bundles them together in xbase-clients
[12:09] <Chipzz> then debian is doing something weird to package them all together in one package
[12:09] <tepsipakki> so maintaining them separately would be pain
[12:09] <tepsipakki> just like ubuntu is with xkbutils and xfonts-utils
[12:09] <tepsipakki> nothing "weird" in it
[12:09] <Chipzz> sure there is?
[12:10] <tepsipakki> there is a bug report about splitting xauth from xbase-clients
[12:10] <Chipzz> upstream ships seperate tarballs, debian builds one package from these seperate tarballs >> debian is doing something strange
[12:11] <Chipzz> xauth is not the only package for which it makes sense to ship seperately
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[12:11] <Chipzz> from a quick glance at the list:
[12:11] <tepsipakki> so you say we should split xkbutils, xfonts-utils..
[12:12] <tepsipakki> anyway, maybe it could be worked out with XSF
[12:12] <Chipzz> xdpyinfo, xhost, xinit, xrandr, xsetmode, xset, xmodmap, xdriinfo...
[12:12] <Chipzz> especially xhost, xinit, xrandr, xset and xmodmap from that list
[12:13] <tepsipakki> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=151613
[12:13] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 151613 in xbase-clients "xbase-clients: xauth (for ssh) should be its own package" [Important,Open]  
[12:13] <Chipzz> anyway, why don't you mail the debian maintainer and ask if he thinks it makes sense to split it up?
[12:14] <tepsipakki> well I think they know about that bug :)
[12:15] <Chipzz> I meant debian syncing with ubuntu
[12:15] <Chipzz> all the way
[12:15] <tepsipakki> hah
[12:15] <Chipzz> not just xauth
[12:15] <tepsipakki> doesn't seem likely
[12:18] <tepsipakki> I can ask, sure
[12:19] <tepsipakki> maybe it will happen, post-etch
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[12:28] <Chipzz> the new X is in experimental anyway?
[12:28] <tepsipakki> not all of it
[12:28] <tepsipakki> yet
[12:28] <tepsipakki> but the tricky parts yes
[12:28] <tepsipakki> hah, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=199675
[12:28] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 199675 in xbase-clients "Can desktop utilities be split off xbase-clients package?" [Wishlist,Open]  
[12:30] <Chipzz> the one-big-xbase-clients thing may be a remnant of pre-modular-X anyway
[12:30] <tepsipakki> for the record, I have nothing against having all those separate, but keeping the delta means more work
[12:32] <tepsipakki> and it is true that most of them don't get updates that often
[12:33] <Chipzz> I'ld say most of them are more frozen over than hell would be when gates releases windows as open source :P
[12:34] <tepsipakki> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=332521
[12:34] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 332521 in xbase-clients "Split xbase-clients" [Wishlist,Open]  
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[12:36] <Chipzz> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=332521#msg19 >> that's what I was referring to
[12:36] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 332521 in xbase-clients "Split xbase-clients" [Wishlist,Open]  
[12:37] <tepsipakki> yes, I see the point
[12:39] <Chipzz> I totally agree
[12:39] <Chipzz> that's just horrible
[12:40] <Chipzz> I have another setup ("embedded" kind of thing) where I only install xset and xinit for example
[12:41] <Chipzz> a setup with netbooting clients with / mounted on nfs
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[12:42] <tfheen> it's not like there's a significant overhead by having them all in one package, though
[12:42] <tepsipakki> maybe I'll just update what we have now and don't bother with debian xbase-clients at all
[12:43] <tepsipakki> and I'll ask them politely what their plans are
[12:44] <Chipzz> tfheen: well, probably not for a desktop, but in a setup where you're building a system from scratch, yes
[12:44] <tepsipakki> the suggestion in 332521 would mean that there would be six bundles, but it could be done with all separate and use meta-packages
[12:44] <Chipzz> uhu
[12:45] <Chipzz> xbase-clients doesn't make any sense at all but as a transitional package anyway
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[12:45] <Chipzz> and I don't see what possible good use xclock can serve on an ubuntu desktop
[12:45] <tfheen> Chipzz: if you're so tight on space, you want to strip docs and such anyway, and then you have filtering and removing other bits then becomes trivial.
[12:45] <Chipzz> except maybe for testing if remote X works
[12:46] <Chipzz> tfheen: xbase-clients is 4.5MB, with 50MB dependencies
[12:46] <Chipzz> for an embedded system, that is starting to be a big deal
[12:47] <tfheen> *shrug*; use a custom package then.
[12:48] <tfheen> in one sentence, you're talking about ubuntu desktops, in the next you're talking about embedded systems.  Our interest lies in the former, not the latter.
[12:49] <tepsipakki> don't forget servers ;)
[12:49] <tepsipakki> (sure, space constraints aren't usually an issue there)
[12:50] <Chipzz> tfheen: maybe I'm seeing this wrong, but ubuntu is in your opinion not meant as base to build things on?
[12:51] <tfheen> Chipzz: the reason why Ubuntu is successful is because it does not try to be everything to everybody.
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[12:51] <tfheen> So yes, it is a base to build things on, but it is not the best base for all kinds of systems, no.
[12:52] <Chipzz> ok, I can agree with that. but does that mean that we have to make stuff harder on the people doing so for the mere sake of convenience in packaging?
[12:52] <Chipzz> I think that's a really crappy reason to do so
=== Chipzz afk for a bit - shower
[12:57] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: yeah, please keep that particular delta for now
[12:57] <cjwatson> I realise it's an awkwardness
[01:00] <tepsipakki> it would be a mess to change now
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[01:04] <cjwatson> should help with various random bits of uninstallabilityt
[01:04] <cjwatson> -t
[01:10] <cjwatson> notably it should make ubuntu-minimal (via aptitude) installable again on powerpc
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[01:20] <cjwatson> I suspect all the ones from November last year will have absolutely no effect because there seems to have been a mass give-back since then
[01:21] <cjwatson> but never mind, might as well get them all analysed and out of the way
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[01:21] <cjwatson> worst case it's 3600-odd binary rejects that never get mailed to anyone :-)
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[02:32] <Keybuk> it's slightly scary when your ISP drops all pretense at being a customer-facing organisation
[02:33] <Keybuk> and changes their website to talk about "managed solutions" "key customers" and "competencies"
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[02:33] <_ion> Heh
[02:33] <_ion> Did they get bought?
[02:34] <Keybuk> yeah
[02:34] <Keybuk> a few years back, when I used to work for ISPs, the big thing was being bought my Telcos
[02:34] <Keybuk> all the ISPs got bought out, and rebranded, etc.
[02:34] <Keybuk> then it calmed down again
[02:34] <Keybuk> now the big thing is getting bought my media groups, who offer everything from phone, to Internet, to TV, etc.
[02:35] <Keybuk> Easynet (my ISP) was one of the biggest Telco/ISP combos
[02:35] <Keybuk> and then it got bought by BSkyB
[02:35] <Keybuk> so now it looks like they're positioning the Easynet brand as the business-facing one
[02:35] <Keybuk> and using "Sky Broadband" as the customer-facing one
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[02:48] <null__> hello
[02:48] <null__> the new kernel seems borken with intel wireless driver
[02:48] <null__> cant connect any more 
[02:48] <Hobbsee> null__: please see the /topic
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[03:25] <bddebian> Heya
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[03:34] <hile> siretart: sent a couple tiny patches for cryptsetup 
[03:35] <hile> not really doing The Right Thing, but at least those seem to work ;)
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[03:50] <siretart> hile: yay. I've seen your emails. I see that I try them out in an qemu environment
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[04:12] <Draconicus> Howdy.
[04:13] <Draconicus> I know this isn't supposed to be a support channel, but this is a channel that's not overrun with newbies and I have a question that's not exactly software-related anyway...
[04:14] <Draconicus> Who can pass on a message to whoever manages Ubuntu support on IRC?
[04:14] <Draconicus> Or better yet give me a name?
[04:17] <Treenaks> Draconicus: have you checked the wiki? :)
[04:17] <Draconicus> You're a funny man, Treenaks.
[04:18] <Adri2000> I think he was serious
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[04:22] <crimsun> Draconicus: jono bacon is the "community dude"
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[04:33] <Draconicus> crimsun: Good to know.
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[04:34] <Draconicus> Man... sometimes I don't know who can be more pompous, the developers (no offense to the ones who aren't), or the support reps. XP
[04:35] <Draconicus> Though it's a lot worse with some other distros.
[04:36] <crimsun> are you implying that developers here should be offended?
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[04:52] <Draconicus> Not really... I dont' know anymore...
[04:52] <Draconicus> GAH... OCD... Must resist.
[04:52] <Draconicus> Take care.
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[05:46] <swampmallard> can anyone tell me what version of gcc is used to compile the Edgy Eft X libs?
[05:47] <navbern> you could use 4.1
[05:47] <navbern> you could use 4.1.x
[05:47] <Amaranth> swampmallard: whatever one is installed by gcc?
[05:49] <swampmallard> I'm asking because I'm trying to compile a meteorological simulation package in Edgy, and I'm getting linker errors related to libX11.a 
[05:49] <swampmallard> I thought it might have been because libX11.a was compiled with a different version of gcc than what I'm using now.
[05:50] <swampmallard> Thank you!
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[06:40] <BeBraw> has anyone noticed that blender (both 2.42a and cvs) has begun to kill window manager after launching it since gdm update?
[06:41] <BeBraw> i am on edgy eft
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[07:53] <tepsipakki> Chipzz: http://lists.debian.org/debian-x/2007/02/msg01172.html
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[08:55] <jdong> BenC: ping
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[08:59] <jdong> BenC: I can confirm bug 82680 on my laptop too in feisty
[08:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82680 in linux-source-2.6.20 "[feisty]  regression: ti mmc card reader not working (worked flawlessly in edgy)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82680
[09:02] <BeBraw> can someone confirm that recent ubuntu update (edgy) broke the fglrx driver?
[09:04] <BeBraw> here's my crash log, http://pastebin.ca/349402
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[09:08] <tepsipakki> bebraw: you need to update your linux-restricted-modules as well
[09:08] <BeBraw> ouchie. thanks for the hint :)
[09:09] <tepsipakki> keep the metapackages installed
[09:10] <BeBraw> hmm. according to synaptic restricted modules for 2.6.17.7-11.1 have been installed
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[09:12] <chris^> Hi
[09:12] <chris^> I think the 2.6.17-11 Kernel is broken for W-Lan (Prism2) users... all prism2-notebooks I've updatet are broken (no wlan anymore)
[09:12] <chris^> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=358085&highlight=wlan
[09:13] <tepsipakki> BeBraw: well, it complains about missing module
[09:13] <BeBraw> tepsipakki: the problems started after i installed the suggested updates given by ubuntu
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[09:15] <chris^> hmmm, I unloaded the prism2 modul, and loaded it againn
[09:15] <chris^> it says it has found a device
[09:15] <chris^> but there is no eth1...
[09:16] <BeBraw> tepsipakki: thanks for help though. i think i will find a workaround for this sooner or later :)
[09:16] <tepsipakki> BeBraw: have you tried #ubuntu?
[09:17] <BeBraw> i shall do that
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[09:41] <mdke> chris^: did you file a bug?
[09:41] <mdke> sounds important
[09:41] <chris^> no
[09:41] <chris^> where can i do that?
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[09:47] <torkel> chris^: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+filebug
[09:49] <mdke> if it is a regression in a stable release, it might be worth posting to a mailing list too 
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