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| troy_s | What now. | 12:41 |
|---|---|---|
| Schalken | where is all the feisty artwork in the wiki? | 12:41 |
| troy_s | It isn't. | 12:41 |
| Schalken | is it anywhere? | 12:42 |
| troy_s | No. | 12:43 |
| Schalken | humph :\ | 12:43 |
| troy_s | Well aside from running a chroot, vmware-player, or like ap. | 12:43 |
| troy_s | Why do you want it? | 12:43 |
| Schalken | just wanted to see how it was going | 12:44 |
| Schalken | if at all | 12:44 |
| troy_s | It is pretty much done, with some small movements along the way I am sure. | 12:44 |
| Schalken | is there a place i can see? (other than by upgrading) | 12:45 |
| troy_s | Probably not. | 12:45 |
| troy_s | Use vmwareplayer | 12:45 |
| troy_s | It is relatively painless... | 12:45 |
| troy_s | Seeing it isn't a huge deal though. | 12:46 |
| troy_s | As (thankfully) the opinions won't matter. | 12:46 |
| troy_s | Otherwise it just opens up a silly bikeshed of silly opinions. | 12:46 |
| Schalken | well im actually in opensuse atm | 12:47 |
| troy_s | Great. Then don't worry about it. | 12:47 |
| Schalken | lol | 12:47 |
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| kwwii | troy_s: hey man, fell asleep, sorry | 01:32 |
| kwwii | I guess it is high time for me to send an email to the list ;-) | 01:32 |
| kwwii | woke up after having bad dreams..my mind knows when "I've got mail" it seems | 01:33 |
| kwwii | troy_s: I'm putting an email together for the art list - will send it tomorrow morning | 01:35 |
| troy_s | kwwii sure... | 01:43 |
| troy_s | it doesn't really matter | 01:43 |
| troy_s | it's not like it is up for discussion etc... | 01:43 |
| kwwii | actually, i want it to be | 01:44 |
| kwwii | it is up for discussion within bounds | 01:44 |
| kwwii | that would help us prove how usefull we can be | 01:44 |
| kwwii | anyway, going on 2am here | 01:52 |
| kwwii | time for sleep (again) | 01:53 |
| troy_s | kwwii I see your point. | 01:55 |
| troy_s | Problem is, it can open up a can of bikeshed that is really worthless, unless you lay in some serious | 01:56 |
| troy_s | and I mean _serious_ ground rules. | 01:56 |
| kwwii | well, that is why I want to start writing an email today and send it tomorrow :p | 01:56 |
| kwwii | (and ask the opinions of you and other in the know first) | 01:56 |
| troy_s | Did you make a decision on palette concepts yet? | 01:56 |
| troy_s | I think we could do a 'hunt and gather' the stinky colours in the icons presently, which is far from ideal but... | 01:57 |
| kwwii | I've been playing around with them...not sure exactly in which direction to go yet | 01:57 |
| troy_s | Yeah ok... | 01:57 |
| troy_s | If you make a decision, it might be nice to actually bring the icons into line... | 01:57 |
| kwwii | definitely | 01:57 |
| troy_s | (assuming you keep the tan as the root, i am pretty sure we could find a tone that works that is close to the existing colours...) | 01:58 |
| troy_s | a very easy project really, assuming you can figure out a palette base you like. | 01:58 |
| kwwii | yeah, I think the tan is pretty much default now | 01:58 |
| troy_s | Well yah... I am not suggesting dumping the tan | 01:58 |
| troy_s | But as you could see, you have quite a few options | 01:58 |
| kwwii | well, part of this was a discussion that I started with Jane about how much we can change the official logo colors for use on screen | 01:58 |
| troy_s | even within locking the tan as say, a 60% 'feel' color | 01:59 |
| kwwii | trying to cover my ass before I leap | 01:59 |
| troy_s | Jane is rather useless | 01:59 |
| troy_s | considering that it is sab's call. | 01:59 |
| troy_s | (i know your contract probably says jane though) | 01:59 |
| kwwii | actually I was told to do it through her (and I have some experience working with her) | 01:59 |
| kwwii | so I need to get her to nod her head once | 01:59 |
| troy_s | _and_ considering that the other 'heads of state' all sit idly by whilst the design issues amass more and more problems. | 01:59 |
| troy_s | absolutely. | 01:59 |
| kwwii | the more I do the more I see how much they are leaving this stuff to me | 02:00 |
| troy_s | It just seems that inevitably, sab will pull the pin. | 02:00 |
| kwwii | probably so that if I make the mistakes it comes back on me | 02:00 |
| kwwii | which is fine by me ;-) | 02:00 |
| troy_s | Well mistakes are... relative. | 02:00 |
| troy_s | And, in an ideal world, expected. | 02:00 |
| kwwii | yepp, it is the whole picture that is more important this time around | 02:00 |
| troy_s | As one could argue that all of the bloody buntu's are a mistake as of now. | 02:00 |
| troy_s | lol | 02:00 |
| troy_s | They certainly all suffer from the same issues fundamentally. | 02:01 |
| kwwii | the best/worst part of this cycle is that I have a long way to go and a short time to get there, so nobody can expect the world | 02:01 |
| troy_s | I think part of that is rooted in the stinking GNOME/KDE politics. | 02:01 |
| kwwii | that is true, although I call it religion, not politics | 02:01 |
| kwwii | ;-) | 02:01 |
| troy_s | Well... yes it is worse than politics. | 02:01 |
| kwwii | it is not founded on any real intelligent reasoning | 02:02 |
| troy_s | In politics at least you can assassinate people and have it die. | 02:02 |
| kwwii | as we are a distro we can go around that though | 02:02 |
| troy_s | Nope. | 02:02 |
| troy_s | Sort of... | 02:02 |
| troy_s | I was speaking with an unnamed person today | 02:02 |
| troy_s | and I can tell you, it roots deep. | 02:02 |
| troy_s | Everyone is quite gutless | 02:02 |
| troy_s | No one wants to make a decision and simply turns things into an 'upstream' issue. | 02:03 |
| kwwii | dude, the upstream themeing discussion is a no-go | 02:03 |
| troy_s | ??? | 02:03 |
| kwwii | there is little chance that gnome and kde are going to ever want to be the same | 02:03 |
| troy_s | No when speaking of the 'larger' design issues. | 02:03 |
| troy_s | God no | 02:03 |
| troy_s | That's the point | 02:03 |
| troy_s | But reality, the end user (lets assume say, someone in the 18-36 region with no FOSS experience) gives a shit about the politics -- they just get a desktop and they either think it stinks or doesn't. | 02:04 |
| troy_s | It has very little to do with politics. | 02:04 |
| kwwii | if you look at what we have done with the oxygen icons you will see that we have put thought into working well with gnome (tango) | 02:04 |
| troy_s | for better or worse | 02:04 |
| kwwii | sure, for the end user the whole thing is turned completely around | 02:04 |
| troy_s | I find it difficult to reconcile anything universal with my background. | 02:05 |
| troy_s | The terms simply doesn't exist, so designing for that myth is absolutely folly. | 02:05 |
| troy_s | It inherently will involve aesthetics. | 02:05 |
| troy_s | And that means a very distinct 'twist' on a concept. | 02:05 |
| kwwii | yeah | 02:06 |
| kwwii | on another topic, do you know how to install feisty in vmware? | 02:07 |
| troy_s | yes | 02:07 |
| troy_s | very simple | 02:07 |
| troy_s | first | 02:07 |
| troy_s | sudo aptitude install vmware-player | 02:07 |
| troy_s | 2nd make a vmx set | 02:07 |
| troy_s | www.easyvmx.com i think | 02:08 |
| kwwii | I have a vmware server running | 02:08 |
| troy_s | will work for you | 02:08 |
| troy_s | third, download install iso and install it. | 02:08 |
| kwwii | ahh, cool, that is what I was looking for | 02:08 |
| troy_s | ;) | 02:08 |
| kwwii | well, the installer borks everytime I get past the keyboard stuff | 02:08 |
| kwwii | it just sits there | 02:08 |
| kwwii | on the console there is some complaint about the hard drive | 02:08 |
| kwwii | hehe, since I updated my kernel it now seems to work ::-) | 02:09 |
| kwwii | sorry for the bother | 02:09 |
| kwwii | time for bed now though | 02:11 |
| kwwii | see you tomorrow | 02:16 |
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| coz_ | evening all | 02:44 |
| the_fool | hello | 02:44 |
| coz_ | hey guy:) | 02:44 |
| the_fool | :) | 02:45 |
| coz_ | I don't know eeryon who comes here but ar eyou new? | 02:45 |
| the_fool | yep | 02:45 |
| coz_ | well then welcome :) | 02:45 |
| the_fool | thnaks | 02:45 |
| the_fool | brb | 02:45 |
| coz_ | so have you come to discuss , or show work, or just hang out / | 02:46 |
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| darkmatter | hiya klepas | 06:56 |
| klepas | hey darkmatter | 07:13 |
| klepas | how's the cold? | 07:13 |
| darkmatter | getting better | 07:15 |
| darkmatter | now I can work on glory more and catch up on bashing out the toolkit foundations fore my soon-to-start code project | 07:15 |
| klepas | :-) | 07:36 |
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| troy_s | kwwii | 06:19 |
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| kwwii | re | 07:03 |
| troy_s | kwwii are you still interested in that GDM? | 07:04 |
| kwwii | troy_s: definitely | 07:04 |
| troy_s | it seems like your balls are pinched for time, so I figured I would ask about it before i pushed a branch. | 07:04 |
| kwwii | lol | 07:04 |
| kwwii | please do, I'll work on gdm this week, so I can start from your branch | 07:05 |
| troy_s | there are actually a few 'bugs' in the code too. | 07:05 |
| troy_s | as in finite set sizes for the entry box | 07:05 |
| troy_s | etc | 07:05 |
| troy_s | hard coded messes | 07:05 |
| kwwii | nasty | 07:05 |
| troy_s | ideally, those would be 100% scalable | 07:05 |
| troy_s | they are easy to fix, but the 'fix' might pop up some new features ;) | 07:05 |
| kwwii | I looked into it a bit and wondered exactly which values are really used and which are ignored | 07:05 |
| troy_s | i was looking into the german word wrap issue | 07:05 |
| troy_s | but i can't seem to see a way to adjust for wrappage | 07:06 |
| troy_s | i can clip | 07:06 |
| troy_s | but no wrap | 07:06 |
| troy_s | well there are two portions of stanza that are completely there just to take up space | 07:06 |
| kwwii | yeah, there is no intelligent text engine for that | 07:06 |
| troy_s | i'll try to get the fixes in and push a branch. | 07:06 |
| kwwii | excellent, thanks | 07:06 |
| troy_s | kwwii: it is an upstream issue | 07:06 |
| troy_s | and wrapping | 07:06 |
| troy_s | would adjust the 'box' vars which adjusts composition etc. | 07:06 |
| troy_s | kwwii: Have you heard of UIML? | 07:07 |
| kwwii | I'll start filing bugs against gdm with my kde.org account :p | 07:07 |
| kwwii | nope, never heard of it | 07:07 |
| troy_s | Look into it... it is quite interesting in terms of designing towards the future. | 07:07 |
| troy_s | it is a universal interface markup language | 07:07 |
| kwwii | wow, cool | 07:07 |
| troy_s | that makes no assumptions about how something is to be displayed | 07:07 |
| kwwii | sounds interesting | 07:07 |
| troy_s | it is rather interesting because it tackles all of the accessibility issues/power user issues/etc | 07:08 |
| troy_s | with one broad stroke -- preventing app designers from 'locking' their interfaces into a particular layout | 07:08 |
| troy_s | and it provides XML for a specialized interface designer to tweak | 07:08 |
| troy_s | rather interesting on a side note... | 07:08 |
| troy_s | just reminded me from dicking with GDM | 07:08 |
| kwwii | killer | 07:09 |
| troy_s | have a peek at it... it has some good ideas in it. | 07:10 |
| kwwii | I will | 07:10 |
| troy_s | so | 07:10 |
| troy_s | what i was going to say | 07:11 |
| troy_s | is push your last branch into gdm with your changes | 07:11 |
| troy_s | and let me pull fresh off of it | 07:11 |
| troy_s | so that we don't get too worried about merges | 07:11 |
| kwwii | until now I have no changes ;-) | 07:11 |
| troy_s | (simple incremental makes it easier as you can imagine) | 07:11 |
| troy_s | okie | 07:11 |
| troy_s | i thought you pushed new art for the gdm | 07:11 |
| kwwii | going to add a new logo when I work on the version from the usplash | 07:11 |
| troy_s | logo wise etc. | 07:11 |
| troy_s | ahh. | 07:11 |
| kwwii | etienne had some great comments | 07:11 |
| troy_s | ok no guarantees, but I will try to clean it up now or so | 07:11 |
| kwwii | great | 07:12 |
| troy_s | echoed the nerf the white | 07:12 |
| troy_s | et is a very clever guy | 07:12 |
| troy_s | who_'s original CoF has some very fresh 'fruity' colours in the grads which really work. | 07:12 |
| troy_s | if you could somehow recapture that, i think it would solve the white pink issues. | 07:12 |
| kwwii | yeah, the pink seems a bit much to me | 07:13 |
| troy_s | it is obviously unintentional | 07:15 |
| troy_s | just a byproduct of the classic white gloss | 07:15 |
| kwwii | yeah, it comes from the palette | 07:15 |
| kwwii | I had an idea about the bg though | 07:15 |
| kwwii | making a pic with a gradient as it is now, but not scale the pic and put it on a solid color bg (with the same color as the outside of the gradient | 07:16 |
| troy_s | perhaps cheating the hue on the gloss might work -- instead of value only (ie adding white translucency) | 07:16 |
| kwwii | that way people with large screens would not notice that the pic does not fit | 07:16 |
| troy_s | interesting idea | 07:16 |
| troy_s | if it is svg though, zoom will take care of that without breaking it down | 07:16 |
| kwwii | true | 07:17 |
| troy_s | funny you should mention that, the current WIP i have now | 07:17 |
| kwwii | not sure about using an svg though | 07:17 |
| troy_s | for a side project | 07:17 |
| troy_s | is 17% opaque | 07:17 |
| kwwii | lol | 07:17 |
| troy_s | and relies on a vertical background grad | 07:17 |
| kwwii | ouch, I wonder why | 07:17 |
| troy_s | well it is by design | 07:17 |
| troy_s | in gnome, the background grad will show through if your png/svg is translucent | 07:17 |
| troy_s | which can make for some interesting mixes. | 07:18 |
| troy_s | It allows for a user to tweak a colour base without needinga full blown new wallpaper | 07:18 |
| troy_s | (within some obvious limitations that aren't worth mentioning ;) ) | 07:18 |
| troy_s | did you try one with the centre punch moved over? | 07:19 |
| kwwii | seems like it would be better to just use a pic like you want | 07:19 |
| kwwii | it certainly would save a bit of time loading | 07:19 |
| troy_s | it saves a bit, but is a bit more flexible. | 07:19 |
| kwwii | yeah, I am in the process of doing just that | 07:19 |
| troy_s | for people who want the 'design' but | 07:20 |
| troy_s | don't want a given colour set | 07:20 |
| kwwii | gotcha | 07:20 |
| troy_s | (dynamic hooks into the SVG is an ideal scenario) | 07:20 |
| troy_s | darkmatter and I were working on something akin to that | 07:20 |
| troy_s | for themes | 07:20 |
| troy_s | setup a few icons with some established escape sequences and let the user tweak the colours through python | 07:20 |
| kwwii | interesting | 07:20 |
| troy_s | into Tropic nightmares of their own love. | 07:20 |
| troy_s | Python is the best thing to happen to computing since sliced bread. | 07:21 |
| kwwii | lol | 07:22 |
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| troy_s | speak of the sick devil | 07:22 |
| troy_s | how's the flu dark? | 07:23 |
| troy_s | kwwii: By the way, you never answered on a question I asked ages ago | 07:23 |
| troy_s | Why did the default folder icon change? I know it is a work in progress, but the earlier versions I saw seemed more elegant. | 07:23 |
| darkmatter | troy_s, hiya | 07:24 |
| troy_s | or is that nino(sp?) | 07:24 |
| darkmatter | its better now... kinda... just gotback from the hospital... | 07:24 |
| troy_s | sheesh | 07:24 |
| darkmatter | I hate my lungs | 07:24 |
| troy_s | darkmatter: Have you had any time for the middle grey project? | 07:25 |
| troy_s | darkmatter: I have some time to try plugging away at the python elements. | 07:25 |
| darkmatter | haha... yeah... was feeling well enough to work on it last night.. then 15 minutes after I started gimping my lungs threw a hissy fit | 07:26 |
| darkmatter | but I think I'll be able to do more today | 07:27 |
| kwwii | troy_s: it was one of those group decisions that I didn't win, basically | 07:27 |
| troy_s | lol | 07:28 |
| troy_s | kwwii Fall down go boom | 07:28 |
| darkmatter | haha | 07:28 |
| kwwii | exactly :-) | 07:28 |
| troy_s | kwwii Well that's too bad. How many folks contribute to oxygen beyond yourself? | 07:28 |
| troy_s | nuino and ? | 07:28 |
| kwwii | nuno and david | 07:28 |
| troy_s | ah. | 07:28 |
| troy_s | wow... that's a pro wrestling 2:1 | 07:29 |
| kwwii | and nuno does pretty much whatever david wants | 07:29 |
| kwwii | yeah | 07:29 |
| troy_s | Sounds like fun. | 07:29 |
| troy_s | Patsies. | 07:29 |
| troy_s | ;) | 07:29 |
| kwwii | oh yeah, you gotta love a good democracy | 07:29 |
| troy_s | You got to love em. | 07:29 |
| darkmatter | this is one of those "sabdfl flexes his deep pockets n says "I'm da daddy.... we use these folders.. NOW!!!!" moments? | 07:29 |
| darkmatter | ;) | 07:29 |
| troy_s | Yep. Isn't that the addage that a giraffe is what you get when you try to create a horse through democracy? | 07:30 |
| kwwii | lol, yeah | 07:30 |
| troy_s | although i have some fundamental disagreements with it -- most of the best work i have ever seen is through tight collaboration. | 07:30 |
| troy_s | ultimately, it is the individuals involved. | 07:30 |
| troy_s | kwwii do you do the 'hardware' icons? | 07:33 |
| kwwii | oh believe me when I say that the teamwork on oxygen is sooo much better than it was on crystal | 07:33 |
| kwwii | troy_s: well, I have done quite a few of them | 07:33 |
| kwwii | I am the best illustrator in the group | 07:33 |
| kwwii | and those icons are very realistic | 07:33 |
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| darkmatter | brb | 07:36 |
| kwwii | this weekend went by way too fast | 07:38 |
| === kwwii uploads some pics to flickr and then watches a film | ||
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| PingunZ | kwwii, mind sharing the link ? :) | 07:47 |
| PingunZ | of your flickr | 07:47 |
| kwwii | PingunZ: www.flickr.com/people/kwwii/ | 07:49 |
| PingunZ | k, thx :) | 07:49 |
| kwwii | not too much there yet | 07:50 |
| kwwii | but you can see the lasagne I made today | 07:50 |
| PingunZ | hehe | 07:50 |
| PingunZ | nice | 07:50 |
| PingunZ | :) | 07:50 |
| PingunZ | a lil' too long in the oven imo | 07:50 |
| kwwii | lol | 07:51 |
| PingunZ | I think google should make a flickr like thing | 07:53 |
| troy_s | isn't that where picassa is heading? | 07:53 |
| === PingunZ doesn't feel like creating a yahoo account just for flickr | ||
| PingunZ | troy_s, didn't know about that, but you're right :) | 07:54 |
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| PingunZ | 250mb, not bad | 07:55 |
| === emx_ [n=emx@SE400.PPPoE-2003.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
| === emx_ is now known as EmxBA | ||
| === EmxBA [n=emx@ubuntu/member/emxba] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
| === EmxBA [n=emx@ubuntu/member/emxba] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
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| === andreasn [n=andreas@h101n1fls31o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork | ||
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