=== Schalken [n=Schalken@C-59-101-153-45.mel.connect.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [12:41] What now. [12:41] where is all the feisty artwork in the wiki? [12:41] It isn't. [12:42] is it anywhere? [12:43] No. [12:43] humph :\ [12:43] Well aside from running a chroot, vmware-player, or like ap. [12:43] Why do you want it? [12:44] just wanted to see how it was going [12:44] if at all [12:44] It is pretty much done, with some small movements along the way I am sure. [12:45] is there a place i can see? (other than by upgrading) [12:45] Probably not. [12:45] Use vmwareplayer [12:45] It is relatively painless... [12:46] Seeing it isn't a huge deal though. [12:46] As (thankfully) the opinions won't matter. [12:46] Otherwise it just opens up a silly bikeshed of silly opinions. [12:47] well im actually in opensuse atm [12:47] Great. Then don't worry about it. [12:47] lol === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Schalken [n=Schalken@C-59-101-153-45.mel.connect.net.au] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Kopete] [01:32] troy_s: hey man, fell asleep, sorry [01:32] I guess it is high time for me to send an email to the list ;-) [01:33] woke up after having bad dreams..my mind knows when "I've got mail" it seems [01:35] troy_s: I'm putting an email together for the art list - will send it tomorrow morning [01:43] kwwii sure... [01:43] it doesn't really matter [01:43] it's not like it is up for discussion etc... [01:44] actually, i want it to be [01:44] it is up for discussion within bounds [01:44] that would help us prove how usefull we can be [01:52] anyway, going on 2am here [01:53] time for sleep (again) [01:55] kwwii I see your point. [01:56] Problem is, it can open up a can of bikeshed that is really worthless, unless you lay in some serious [01:56] and I mean _serious_ ground rules. [01:56] well, that is why I want to start writing an email today and send it tomorrow :p [01:56] (and ask the opinions of you and other in the know first) [01:56] Did you make a decision on palette concepts yet? [01:57] I think we could do a 'hunt and gather' the stinky colours in the icons presently, which is far from ideal but... [01:57] I've been playing around with them...not sure exactly in which direction to go yet [01:57] Yeah ok... [01:57] If you make a decision, it might be nice to actually bring the icons into line... [01:57] definitely [01:58] (assuming you keep the tan as the root, i am pretty sure we could find a tone that works that is close to the existing colours...) [01:58] a very easy project really, assuming you can figure out a palette base you like. [01:58] yeah, I think the tan is pretty much default now [01:58] Well yah... I am not suggesting dumping the tan [01:58] But as you could see, you have quite a few options [01:58] well, part of this was a discussion that I started with Jane about how much we can change the official logo colors for use on screen [01:59] even within locking the tan as say, a 60% 'feel' color [01:59] trying to cover my ass before I leap [01:59] Jane is rather useless [01:59] considering that it is sab's call. [01:59] (i know your contract probably says jane though) [01:59] actually I was told to do it through her (and I have some experience working with her) [01:59] so I need to get her to nod her head once [01:59] _and_ considering that the other 'heads of state' all sit idly by whilst the design issues amass more and more problems. [01:59] absolutely. [02:00] the more I do the more I see how much they are leaving this stuff to me [02:00] It just seems that inevitably, sab will pull the pin. [02:00] probably so that if I make the mistakes it comes back on me [02:00] which is fine by me ;-) [02:00] Well mistakes are... relative. [02:00] And, in an ideal world, expected. [02:00] yepp, it is the whole picture that is more important this time around [02:00] As one could argue that all of the bloody buntu's are a mistake as of now. [02:00] lol [02:01] They certainly all suffer from the same issues fundamentally. [02:01] the best/worst part of this cycle is that I have a long way to go and a short time to get there, so nobody can expect the world [02:01] I think part of that is rooted in the stinking GNOME/KDE politics. [02:01] that is true, although I call it religion, not politics [02:01] ;-) [02:01] Well... yes it is worse than politics. [02:02] it is not founded on any real intelligent reasoning [02:02] In politics at least you can assassinate people and have it die. [02:02] as we are a distro we can go around that though [02:02] Nope. [02:02] Sort of... [02:02] I was speaking with an unnamed person today [02:02] and I can tell you, it roots deep. [02:02] Everyone is quite gutless [02:03] No one wants to make a decision and simply turns things into an 'upstream' issue. [02:03] dude, the upstream themeing discussion is a no-go [02:03] ??? [02:03] there is little chance that gnome and kde are going to ever want to be the same [02:03] No when speaking of the 'larger' design issues. [02:03] God no [02:03] That's the point [02:04] But reality, the end user (lets assume say, someone in the 18-36 region with no FOSS experience) gives a shit about the politics -- they just get a desktop and they either think it stinks or doesn't. [02:04] It has very little to do with politics. [02:04] if you look at what we have done with the oxygen icons you will see that we have put thought into working well with gnome (tango) [02:04] for better or worse [02:04] sure, for the end user the whole thing is turned completely around [02:05] I find it difficult to reconcile anything universal with my background. [02:05] The terms simply doesn't exist, so designing for that myth is absolutely folly. [02:05] It inherently will involve aesthetics. [02:05] And that means a very distinct 'twist' on a concept. [02:06] yeah [02:07] on another topic, do you know how to install feisty in vmware? [02:07] yes [02:07] very simple [02:07] first [02:07] sudo aptitude install vmware-player [02:07] 2nd make a vmx set [02:08] www.easyvmx.com i think [02:08] I have a vmware server running [02:08] will work for you [02:08] third, download install iso and install it. [02:08] ahh, cool, that is what I was looking for [02:08] ;) [02:08] well, the installer borks everytime I get past the keyboard stuff [02:08] it just sits there [02:08] on the console there is some complaint about the hard drive [02:09] hehe, since I updated my kernel it now seems to work ::-) [02:09] sorry for the bother [02:11] time for bed now though [02:16] see you tomorrow === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === the_fool [n=fool@209-188-119-175.taosnet.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:44] evening all [02:44] hello [02:44] hey guy:) [02:45] :) [02:45] I don't know eeryon who comes here but ar eyou new? [02:45] yep [02:45] well then welcome :) [02:45] thnaks [02:45] brb [02:46] so have you come to discuss , or show work, or just hang out / === the_fool [n=fool@209-188-119-175.taosnet.com] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === coz_ [n=coz_@pool-68-162-162-84.pitt.east.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === troy_s [n=aphorism@d206-116-6-170.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === troy_s [n=aphorism@d206-116-6-170.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-190-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === dborg__ [n=daniel@e181168001.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PseudoPlacebo [n=Placebo@user-0ceveav.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas [n=klepas@60-242-104-119.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === BHSPitMonkey [n=stephen@adsl-66-139-216-117.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Trae [n=october@ip24-252-207-46.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === elkbuntu [n=melissa@ubuntu/member/elkbuntu] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === TheSheep [n=sheep@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === ryanakca [n=ryan@ubuntu/member/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Riddell [i=jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas_ [n=klepas@60-242-104-119.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas_ is now known as klepas [06:56] hiya klepas [07:13] hey darkmatter [07:13] how's the cold? [07:15] getting better [07:15] now I can work on glory more and catch up on bashing out the toolkit foundations fore my soon-to-start code project [07:36] :-) === frup [n=laurent@60-234-144-48.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === msikma [n=Msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === EmxBA [n=emx@ubuntu/member/emxba] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PingunZ [n=PingunZ@220.4-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn [n=andreas@h101n1fls31o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PingunZ [n=PingunZ@220.4-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Bye"] === klepas_ [n=klepas@60-242-104-119.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas_ is now known as kleoas === kleoas is now known as klepas_ === klepas_ is now known as klepas === andreasn [n=andreas@h101n1fls31o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === EmxBA [n=emx@ubuntu/member/emxba] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PingunZ [n=PingunZ@28.8-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === vdepizzol [n=vinicius@200.242.12.134] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === vdepizzol [n=vinicius@200.242.12.134] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Ex-Chat"] [06:19] kwwii === klepas [n=klepas@60-242-104-119.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === dborg_ [n=daniel@e181172239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [07:03] re [07:04] kwwii are you still interested in that GDM? [07:04] troy_s: definitely [07:04] it seems like your balls are pinched for time, so I figured I would ask about it before i pushed a branch. [07:04] lol [07:05] please do, I'll work on gdm this week, so I can start from your branch [07:05] there are actually a few 'bugs' in the code too. [07:05] as in finite set sizes for the entry box [07:05] etc [07:05] hard coded messes [07:05] nasty [07:05] ideally, those would be 100% scalable [07:05] they are easy to fix, but the 'fix' might pop up some new features ;) [07:05] I looked into it a bit and wondered exactly which values are really used and which are ignored [07:05] i was looking into the german word wrap issue [07:06] but i can't seem to see a way to adjust for wrappage [07:06] i can clip [07:06] but no wrap [07:06] well there are two portions of stanza that are completely there just to take up space [07:06] yeah, there is no intelligent text engine for that [07:06] i'll try to get the fixes in and push a branch. [07:06] excellent, thanks [07:06] kwwii: it is an upstream issue [07:06] and wrapping [07:06] would adjust the 'box' vars which adjusts composition etc. [07:07] kwwii: Have you heard of UIML? [07:07] I'll start filing bugs against gdm with my kde.org account :p [07:07] nope, never heard of it [07:07] Look into it... it is quite interesting in terms of designing towards the future. [07:07] it is a universal interface markup language [07:07] wow, cool [07:07] that makes no assumptions about how something is to be displayed [07:07] sounds interesting [07:08] it is rather interesting because it tackles all of the accessibility issues/power user issues/etc [07:08] with one broad stroke -- preventing app designers from 'locking' their interfaces into a particular layout [07:08] and it provides XML for a specialized interface designer to tweak [07:08] rather interesting on a side note... [07:08] just reminded me from dicking with GDM [07:09] killer [07:10] have a peek at it... it has some good ideas in it. [07:10] I will [07:10] so [07:11] what i was going to say [07:11] is push your last branch into gdm with your changes [07:11] and let me pull fresh off of it [07:11] so that we don't get too worried about merges [07:11] until now I have no changes ;-) [07:11] (simple incremental makes it easier as you can imagine) [07:11] okie [07:11] i thought you pushed new art for the gdm [07:11] going to add a new logo when I work on the version from the usplash [07:11] logo wise etc. [07:11] ahh. [07:11] etienne had some great comments [07:11] ok no guarantees, but I will try to clean it up now or so [07:12] great [07:12] echoed the nerf the white [07:12] et is a very clever guy [07:12] who_'s original CoF has some very fresh 'fruity' colours in the grads which really work. [07:12] if you could somehow recapture that, i think it would solve the white pink issues. [07:13] yeah, the pink seems a bit much to me [07:15] it is obviously unintentional [07:15] just a byproduct of the classic white gloss [07:15] yeah, it comes from the palette [07:15] I had an idea about the bg though [07:16] making a pic with a gradient as it is now, but not scale the pic and put it on a solid color bg (with the same color as the outside of the gradient [07:16] perhaps cheating the hue on the gloss might work -- instead of value only (ie adding white translucency) [07:16] that way people with large screens would not notice that the pic does not fit [07:16] interesting idea [07:16] if it is svg though, zoom will take care of that without breaking it down [07:17] true [07:17] funny you should mention that, the current WIP i have now [07:17] not sure about using an svg though [07:17] for a side project [07:17] is 17% opaque [07:17] lol [07:17] and relies on a vertical background grad [07:17] ouch, I wonder why [07:17] well it is by design [07:17] in gnome, the background grad will show through if your png/svg is translucent [07:18] which can make for some interesting mixes. [07:18] It allows for a user to tweak a colour base without needinga full blown new wallpaper [07:18] (within some obvious limitations that aren't worth mentioning ;) ) [07:19] did you try one with the centre punch moved over? [07:19] seems like it would be better to just use a pic like you want [07:19] it certainly would save a bit of time loading [07:19] it saves a bit, but is a bit more flexible. [07:19] yeah, I am in the process of doing just that [07:20] for people who want the 'design' but [07:20] don't want a given colour set [07:20] gotcha [07:20] (dynamic hooks into the SVG is an ideal scenario) [07:20] darkmatter and I were working on something akin to that [07:20] for themes [07:20] setup a few icons with some established escape sequences and let the user tweak the colours through python [07:20] interesting [07:20] into Tropic nightmares of their own love. [07:21] Python is the best thing to happen to computing since sliced bread. [07:22] lol === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [07:22] speak of the sick devil [07:23] how's the flu dark? [07:23] kwwii: By the way, you never answered on a question I asked ages ago [07:23] Why did the default folder icon change? I know it is a work in progress, but the earlier versions I saw seemed more elegant. [07:24] troy_s, hiya [07:24] or is that nino(sp?) [07:24] its better now... kinda... just gotback from the hospital... [07:24] sheesh [07:24] I hate my lungs [07:25] darkmatter: Have you had any time for the middle grey project? [07:25] darkmatter: I have some time to try plugging away at the python elements. [07:26] haha... yeah... was feeling well enough to work on it last night.. then 15 minutes after I started gimping my lungs threw a hissy fit [07:27] but I think I'll be able to do more today [07:27] troy_s: it was one of those group decisions that I didn't win, basically [07:28] lol [07:28] kwwii Fall down go boom [07:28] haha [07:28] exactly :-) [07:28] kwwii Well that's too bad. How many folks contribute to oxygen beyond yourself? [07:28] nuino and ? [07:28] nuno and david [07:28] ah. [07:29] wow... that's a pro wrestling 2:1 [07:29] and nuno does pretty much whatever david wants [07:29] yeah [07:29] Sounds like fun. [07:29] Patsies. [07:29] ;) [07:29] oh yeah, you gotta love a good democracy [07:29] You got to love em. [07:29] this is one of those "sabdfl flexes his deep pockets n says "I'm da daddy.... we use these folders.. NOW!!!!" moments? [07:29] ;) [07:30] Yep. Isn't that the addage that a giraffe is what you get when you try to create a horse through democracy? [07:30] lol, yeah [07:30] although i have some fundamental disagreements with it -- most of the best work i have ever seen is through tight collaboration. [07:30] ultimately, it is the individuals involved. [07:33] kwwii do you do the 'hardware' icons? [07:33] oh believe me when I say that the teamwork on oxygen is sooo much better than it was on crystal [07:33] troy_s: well, I have done quite a few of them [07:33] I am the best illustrator in the group [07:33] and those icons are very realistic === lizardking [n=lizardki@87.16.123.161] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [07:36] brb [07:38] this weekend went by way too fast === kwwii uploads some pics to flickr and then watches a film === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [07:47] kwwii, mind sharing the link ? :) [07:47] of your flickr [07:49] PingunZ: www.flickr.com/people/kwwii/ [07:49] k, thx :) [07:50] not too much there yet [07:50] but you can see the lasagne I made today [07:50] hehe [07:50] nice [07:50] :) [07:50] a lil' too long in the oven imo [07:51] lol [07:53] I think google should make a flickr like thing [07:53] isn't that where picassa is heading? === PingunZ doesn't feel like creating a yahoo account just for flickr [07:54] troy_s, didn't know about that, but you're right :) === dborg_ is now known as dborg [07:55] 250mb, not bad === emx_ [n=emx@SE400.PPPoE-2003.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === emx_ is now known as EmxBA === EmxBA [n=emx@ubuntu/member/emxba] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === EmxBA [n=emx@ubuntu/member/emxba] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === EmxBA [n=emx@ubuntu/member/emxba] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn [n=andreas@h101n1fls31o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork