[12:26] <karim_> hi
[12:27] <karim_> when I try to build xine-ui from source package I have no /usr/bin/xine binary. 
[01:34] <HAL9003> hi guys
[01:40] <HAL9003> is there a list somewhere, how the runlevels are designed on ubuntu?
[01:40] <Hobbsee> no!  not more rain!
[01:43] <tepsipakki> HAL9003: /etc/init.d/README
[01:45] <HAL9003> that links to _Debian_ sources
[01:46] <tepsipakki> so?
[01:48] <HAL9003> so i need to ask debian people how ubuntu works?
[01:48] <tepsipakki> that links to debian documentation, yes
[01:51] <Chipzz> HAL9003: no, you need to bother reading the docs ;P
[01:51] <Hobbsee> HAL9003: ubuntu is based on debian.  a lot of things work the same way
[01:51] <tepsipakki> Chipzz: did you get the link I pasted here?
[01:51] <Chipzz> tepsipakki: yeah I did
[01:51] <Chipzz> bit of a shame IMO :/
[01:53] <tepsipakki> how so?
[01:56] <tepsipakki> X Window System Version 7.2.0
[01:56] <tepsipakki> Release Date: 22 January 2007
[01:56] <tepsipakki> X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 7.2
[01:56] <tepsipakki> right on!
[01:56] <Fujitsu> tepsipakki, is that the server starting?
[01:56] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: woo!!!
[01:57] <tepsipakki> Fujitsu: yes
[01:57] <Fujitsu> Wow!
[01:57] <Fujitsu> Very good :D
[01:57] <Fujitsu> How many of the X packages have you updated?
[01:58] <tepsipakki> I don't have any driver-stuff yet, but rest
[01:58] <Fujitsu> Still, not a bad effort thus far.
[01:58] <tepsipakki> 157 packages
[01:58] <tepsipakki> binaries
[01:58] <tepsipakki> but some of them are straight from debian
[01:59] <tepsipakki> hmm, hpssd still crashes here.. but it isn't xorg's fault
[02:00] <tepsipakki> less than 50MB of debs
[02:12] <holycow> allright so i can't be any help in the regular channel
[02:13] <holycow> does ubuntu have a team testing the upgrade path between releases or between multiple releases?
[02:13] <holycow> how is that handled?
[02:13] <tepsipakki> ooh, I can run two glxgears instances on ati. the old one crashed
[02:13] <Fujitsu> Upgrades are only supported from one release to the next, or between LTS versions.
[02:14] <Fujitsu> And there is going to be some kind of testing of Edgy->Feisty, I believe.
[02:14] <holycow> Fujitsu, they fail VERY badly between dapper and edgy it seems
[02:14] <holycow> i haven't had a single successful dist-upgrade
[02:14] <Hobbsee> xserver locked up again
[02:15] <tepsipakki> Hobbsee: feel like trying mine :)
[02:15] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: i'm thinking about it.  i'll check LP first though
[02:15] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: any plans to get that into feisty?  
[02:15] <tepsipakki> Hobbsee: that's up to TB
[02:15] <Fujitsu> tepsipakki: Did you read the logs of the last meeting? They said they'd like it if it gets packaged.
[02:15] <tepsipakki> I don't have an official no/yes yet
[02:16] <tepsipakki> Fujitsu: yes, I read that
[02:16] <tepsipakki> it happens that Debian is packaging it right now as well :)
[02:16] <tepsipakki> so that makes it faster
[02:16] <tepsipakki> in fact xorg-server was in their git for a long time, but I didn't see it first
[02:17] <mc44> holycow: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistUpgradeProcessImprovements
[02:19] <holycow> mc44, ah neat, so its a known issue
[02:19] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: may well be already there.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=screensaver+freeze&orderby=-date_last_updated&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[02:19] <mc44> holycow: yes
[02:20] <phaidros> hi
[02:20] <phaidros> is there an uptodate clamav (>= 0.9) as .deb around?
[02:20] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/60288 maybe - as a person doing xorg, does that patch make sense?
[02:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60288 in xorg-server "xorg segfaults in FontFileCompleteXLFD" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[02:21] <tepsipakki> great, need to bump epoch on libice, libsm, libxext, libxaw, libxi
[02:22] <tepsipakki> those got "upgraded" on dist-upgrade
[02:22] <Hobbsee> oh, it's fixed in 7.2, apparently
[02:23] <tepsipakki> Hobbsee: I'm merely packaging it, not "doing" it :)
[02:23] <tepsipakki> but tormod has been keen to see 7.2, so maybe it does make sense
[02:24] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: is it in a repo?
[02:24] <Hobbsee> the 7.2?
[02:24] <tepsipakki> I'll check
[02:24] <sistpoty> phaidros: yes... apt-cache show clamav tells Version: 0.90~rc3-1ubuntu1 for feisty
[02:24] <phaidros> thanx sistpoty 
[02:25] <sistpoty> np
[02:25] <phaidros> general: is it problematic to just use dapper+1 packages in dapper (feisty -> edgy) ?
[02:25] <phaidros> meaning ubuntu+1 & ubuntu , snarf
[02:25] <holycow> phaidros, expect it to be trouble
[02:25] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: the merged tsuff for feisty
[02:26] <holycow> phaidros, generally it will try to pull in system library updates and you will end up with ahosed box
[02:26] <phaidros> holycow, as long as there are no system library dependencies it should be okayish then, right?
[02:27] <holycow> phaidros, what you want to be looking for is a  package compiled for dapper or compile and package it your self
[02:27] <holycow> phaidros, i will hesitate to say yes but there are no guarantees
[02:27] <tepsipakki> Hobbsee: yes, from that upstream bug you'll find a patch which is close to the one in the LP bug, and that is in 7.2
[02:27] <sistpoty> phaidros: even than it might be troublesome, e.g. if maintainer scripts need s.th. newer...
[02:27] <phaidros> hm, recommendation would be to grab clamav 0.9 deb.src from feisty and build in edgy .. 
[02:28] <sistpoty> phaidros: yep
[02:28] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: cool.  now we just need it in the archives. i'll happily test - that screensaver bug is damned annoying, and i like my pretty screensaver
[02:28] <Hobbsee> (which is why i usually use a blank screensaver)
[02:28] <holycow> phaidros, actually yes thats best
[02:28] <phaidros> so, then today is the day to learn how to rebuild .debs ;)
[02:28] <Fujitsu> phaidros: You might want to check out the prevu package.
[02:29] <_ion> Does anyone know what Keybuk uses for keeping the ChangeLog file updated in bzr? I presume it's a bzr plugin.
[02:29] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[02:29] <Fujitsu> But that's not in Edgy >_>
[02:29] <phaidros> thanx anyway Fujitsu 
[02:30] <phaidros> prevu sounds fine, somebody volounteering ?? ;) (just joking)
[02:31] <phaidros> well, somebody might use prevu to backport prevu to edgy!
[02:31] <phaidros> (sadly no feisty around here)
[02:33] <sistpoty> phaidros: the easiest way is apt-get install build-essential, grab source-package (.dsc, .diff.gz, .orig.tar.gz) from packages.ubuntu.com, dpkg-sourc -x *dsc, install build dependencies (see debian/control) and make -f debian/rules binary, but learning how to build packages is quite offtopic here, #ubuntu-motu would be more suited
[02:33] <phaidros> thanx sistpoty 
[02:33] <holycow> how does this channel differ from the motu channel?
[02:34] <Hobbsee> holycow: see /topic
[02:34] <holycow> lol
[02:34] <holycow> so
[02:35] <holycow> how is this channel different from the motu channel?
[02:35] <holycow> seriously, please don't point to the topic, its not helpfull at all beyond stating channel rules
[02:35] <Hobbsee> ie, this is development discussion, that's how to start getting involved in development.  also, this == for the stuff in main, motu, for the stuff in universe
[02:35] <holycow> so
[02:35] <Hobbsee> you have no idea how many people dont read the topic, and ask for support in here.
[02:35] <holycow> sure i do
[02:35] <Fujitsu> No
[02:35] <Fujitsu> You don't.
[02:35] <holycow> i also understand why the topic is that way
[02:36] <Fujitsu> Gah.
[02:36] <Fujitsu> Stupid enter key.
[02:36] <holycow> i assumed motus were devels and would be rolled in here
[02:36] <Hobbsee> holycow: differnet people focus on main and universe
[02:36] <holycow> what do devels here focus on ?
[02:36] <Hobbsee> main stuff
[02:36] <Fujitsu> holycow: main and restricted.
[02:37] <holycow> ah
[02:37] <Fujitsu> (well, main is the focus)
[02:37] <Hobbsee> seeing as there's no maintainer, per se
[02:37] <tepsipakki> uh, 3:37AM.. time for a quick nap ->
[02:38] <holycow> Fujitsu, actually i probably have a very good idea of how many support requests you guys get here ... i get banned from #ubuntu a lot
[02:38] <holycow> lol
[02:39] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: darn!
[02:41] <Hobbsee> wow, lots of dupes on this
[02:42] <holycow> Hobbsee, just out of curiosity, what issue? for edgy?
[02:42] <Hobbsee> holycow: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/60288
[02:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60288 in xorg-server "xorg segfaults in FontFileCompleteXLFD" [High,Confirmed]  
[02:42] <Hobbsee> holycow: both edgy and feisty
[02:43] <tepsipakki> Hobbsee: forgot to tell, that upstream doesn't have that patch as-is, I didn't check the git
[02:43] <holycow> oh weird, okay thanks
[02:43] <tepsipakki> but now ->
[02:43] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: right....
[02:46] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: right, that bug now has 6 dupes.
[02:55] <Hobbsee> bah.  how long can it take?  it's xorg-server
[02:55] <Hobbsee> and i'll do the proper patch in the process
[03:08] <LongPointyStick> building....
[03:16] <geser> Hobbsee: the last time xorg-server took 20 min to be build on the buildds
[03:42] <jdub> hmm
[03:42] <jdub> upgrading python and python-minimal, apt-get clocks 100%
[03:43] <jdub> trying again; last time it didn't finish :)
[03:44] <jdub> hrm
[03:44] <jdub> and no strace output
[03:45] <jdub> hrm
[03:45] <jcole> sudo update-python-modules
[03:46] <jdub> no, just did an install of python/python-minimal and it was fine
[03:46] <jdub> whereas the upgrade was wedged
[03:48] <jcole> everytime python i updated/upgrade update-python-modules is called (i think) which can spike the cpu
[03:48] <jcole> is*
[03:48] <jdub> on install, it took no time; on upgrade, it wedges
[03:49] <jdub> ah, it's wedged after failing to get postfix
[03:57] <jdub> ahr, --fix-missing
[03:57] <jdub> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/84476
[03:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84476 in apt "Wedged at 100% cpu with --fix-missing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[04:13] <Hobbsee> geser: not bad.  it appears to fail to build though, no idea why
[04:50] <nemo_home> 'scuse me. I was wondering if you guys could push out a quick and easy fix. My mom's recent update of her ubuntu broke her wireless due to kernel rename causing wrong tool to be invoked in modprobe.d 
[04:50] <nemo_home> was concatenating `uname -r`
[04:51] <nemo_home> ln -s /sbin/ipw3945d-2.6.17-10-generic /sbin/ipw3945d-2.6.17-10-386  fixes, but I was hoping for something "official"
[04:54] <shackan__> file a bug on the "official" bugzilla
[04:56] <nemo_home> shoot. was hoping for something broken by an update that you guys could push out a quick fix. not to whine too much in a dev channel, but usual bug cycle takes a while and catching this before others reboot and can't pull down the fix would be nice.
[04:56] <nemo_home> fixing my mom's from 3000 miles away by phone was... unpleasant...
[04:58] <shackan__> which is why linux will never catch up on the desktop
[04:59] <nemo_home> ?
[05:05] <Burgundavia> nemo_home: if there has been a regression, it is a pretty serious matter
[05:05] <Burgundavia> please file a bug and make certain it is tagged as such
[05:08] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: patch seems to work
[05:08] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: hasnt killed X, anyway
[05:08] <nemo_home> Burgundavia: fine. hope it doesn't take too long.  *registers*
[05:08] <Burgundavia> nemo_home: testing it to make certain it doesn't break anything further will take time
[05:09] <Burgundavia> shackan__: less than helpful statements are not really needed
[05:09] <Burgundavia> please refrain from making them in the future
[05:09] <nemo_home> Burgundavia: meh. breaking internet is about the worst thing that can break :) makes further fixes difficult.
[05:09] <keescook> nemo_home: sounds like bug 84372
[05:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84372 in linux-source-2.6.17 "ipw3945 not working with 2.6.17-11-generic" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84372
[05:10] <nemo_home> ah-hah
[05:10] <keescook> can you comment on that with your "ln -s" fix?
[05:10] <nemo_home> hm. I'm not sure that is the bug, actually
[05:11] <keescook> ah, hmpf
[05:11] <nemo_home> the date is correct though, so doublechecking now that I can actually connect to her machine through ssh again
[05:12] <Hobbsee> hey keescook 
[05:12] <Hobbsee> keescook: who's best to bug about getting an X patch in?
[05:12] <keescook> hiya Hobbsee :)
[05:12] <shackan__> Burgundavia, sorry, just a personal opinion (not appropriate for -devel, I know)
[05:12] <keescook> Hobbsee: hmmm, dunno.  is there a bug for it?
[05:12] <Hobbsee> keescook: yeah.  bug 60288
[05:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60288 in xorg-server "xorg segfaults in FontFileCompleteXLFD" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/60288
[05:12] <keescook> I'm not sure where things stand, given the possible 7.2 integration, etc
[05:13] <nemo_home> keescook: possibly related - since uname -r is used, I imagine any change of name would do it. in my mom's case is 2.6.17-10-386  - maybe he's on 2.6.17-11-generic
[05:13] <keescook> nemo_home: yeah, that part confused me.  :)
[05:14] <Hobbsee> keescook: do you think it's possible to get this in before they decide on 7.2?  it's making my machine crash at least once a day, and it's doing the same to all the other people with this bug.  the patch has been committed into 7.2
[05:14] <keescook> Hobbsee: yeah, probably.  Looking at the patch now
[05:14] <Hobbsee> keescook: thanks
[05:14] <nemo_home> keescook: other difference is that on her machine she told me, in debugging, that the device didn't even show up under ifconfig -a
[05:15] <nemo_home> anyway. will file a new one and hope others don't get hit with this
[05:15] <keescook> nemo_home: ah, okay.  yeah, I'm not sure; I can't reproduce since I don't have that hardware.  :(
[05:15] <keescook> cool, thanks
[05:15] <Hobbsee> keescook: i can be cooerced to reproduce that
[05:17] <Hobbsee> keescook: possible SRU candidate, if nothing else.
[05:17] <keescook> Hobbsee: yeah, totally.  I agree, though: get it tested now.  :)
[05:18] <keescook> so, what does it take to spark the crash?
[05:18] <Hobbsee> keescook: dunno - you'd have to check the backtraces.  run a opengl screensaver, and it'll happen randomly - machine just hardlocks
[05:19] <keescook> icky.  yeah, I guess I'm missing all the fun by just using screen blanking.  :)
[05:19] <Hobbsee> come ot think of it, i wonder if this fixes my X crashes for games like scorched3d (reproducable always), ppracer, and tuxkart (sometimes)
[05:19] <Hobbsee> keescook: yep.  the opengl screensavers are pretty!  :P
[05:19] <Hobbsee> what's that ln -s for the wifi card fix?
[05:20] <keescook> (ick, I don't like these LVM updates... I'm getting floods of warnings while manipulating my LV chroots...)
[05:20] <nemo_home> Hobbsee: I just symlinked so that modprobe.d would pick up the right name
[05:20] <Hobbsee> nemo_home: got the full symlink?
[05:21] <nemo_home> Hobbsee: ln -s /sbin/ipw3945d-2.6.17-10-generic /sbin/ipw3945d-2.6.17-10-386
[05:22] <nemo_home> Hobbsee: heh, you'll probably beat the reg mail through my greylist
[05:22] <nemo_home> (forgot to whitelist)
[05:27] <nemo_home> and?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> gotta upgrade edgy first...
[05:27] <nemo_home> kinda new to this ubuntu thing. edgy is "stable" right?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> yes
[05:28] <Hobbsee> getting 269mb archives - ouch!
[05:30] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Lovely/.
[05:30] <keescook> okay... lvm is seriously trashed.  this is now getting in my way.  :P  gah
[05:30] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: yep :(
[05:32] <keescook> Hobbsee: got the patch running through a build now.  :)
[05:32] <Burgundavia> keescook: how do I get a dapper regression dealt with? it is a cupsys one
[05:33] <Burgundavia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cupsys/+bug/55828
[05:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55828 in cupsys "PJL output from 1.2.2 client over IPP" [Medium,In progress]  
[05:33] <keescook> Burgundavia: not sure, maybe email pitti?
[05:33] <Hobbsee> keescook: yay!  so it's building?
[05:33] <Hobbsee> keescook: ie, going into the archives?
[05:34] <keescook> Hobbsee: locally, yeah.  I'll test it quickly and then upload to LP
[05:34] <Hobbsee> keescook: right.  it works, i just tried :P
[05:34] <keescook> Hobbsee: yup, I trust your build.  I just don't trust mine yet.  ;)
[05:35] <Hobbsee> keescook: :)
[05:35] <Hobbsee> keescook: you can come and @lart me at the next UDS or something if it doesnt work.
[05:35] <Hobbsee> or lca, if i'm there
[05:35] <keescook> hehe  :)
[05:35] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:35] <keescook> will you be at the next UDS?
[05:39] <Hobbsee> keescook: hope to be.
[05:39] <Hobbsee> keescook: i've got my passport application mostly filled out for it :P
[05:39] <keescook> Burgundavia: looks like pitti just needs to drive that SRU (everything in that bug looks to be in good shape)
[05:39] <Burgundavia> keescook: yep, but the SRU has been needed to be driven since october
[05:40] <keescook> Burgundavia: yeah.  :(  I'm not sure what the right "escalation" method is for SRUs.
[05:40] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: heh.  so by the time it's done, feisty will be released!
[05:40] <Hobbsee> keescook: poking the relevant parties until they give in tends to work
[05:40] <Hobbsee> ahem, did i say that?
[05:40] <keescook> heh
[05:40] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: this is the third poke on the bug
[05:41] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: add some DOOM!!!! behind it, too.
[05:41] <Burgundavia> frustrated, as it is holding back the complete conversion of my office to Ubuntu
[05:41] <keescook> Burgundavia: you might ask sfllaw too.  I know it needs to be uploaded to -proposed first, etc
[05:41] <Burgundavia> yep
[05:41] <Burgundavia> sfllaw: ping, re bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/cupsys/+bug/55828
[05:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55828 in cupsys "PJL output from 1.2.2 client over IPP" [Medium,In progress]  
[05:42] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: that is a dapper bug, not an edgy one
[05:42] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: i realise that.
[05:42] <Burgundavia> if it was an edgy one, I wouldn't care as much, but dapper is supposed to be "long term" and all that jazz, hence why i run it in my office
[05:42] <LaserJock> I've got a few more edgy SRU's to do
[05:42] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: makes it even harder i guess, as most of the devs wont even have a partition of it
[05:42] <Hobbsee> yeah
[05:42] <keescook> I've got 'em all!
[05:42] <LaserJock> they're a pain in the butt though
[05:42] <Burgundavia> I can see community members not running dapper
[05:43] <Burgundavia> paid employees are paid to keep those dapper partitions around
[05:44] <Burgundavia> although the Ubuntu QA is a million times better than Userful's...
[05:44] <LaserJock> heh
[05:45] <Burgundavia> thanks to rocking people like keescook and sfllaw
[05:45] <keescook> :)
[05:45] <keescook> Burgundavia: one other idea is to get the debdiff updated for the new-style SRU (using -proposed).  I'll do that while waiting for xorg to finish compiling.  :)
[05:46] <Hobbsee> keescook: should only take ~20 mins
[05:48] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: here is a nice sob story. Our company president bought the entire Victoria office 19" widescreen laptops
[05:48] <Burgundavia> sounds great, right?
[05:49] <Burgundavia> except for one little bug: desktop-multiplier hardcodes 1024x768 into X
[05:49] <LaserJock> doh
[05:49] <Burgundavia> I figured out how to hack it to get support 800x600 and 1280x1024, but not widescreen resolutions
[05:49] <jdong> whoa! feisty  ssh has kerberos support!
[05:49] <jdong> who do I need to hug for that?
[05:50] <jdong> that was a pleasant surprise... ssh'ing to linux.mit.edu and having it automagically log in :)
[05:52] <Hobbsee> keescook: nemo_home i cant reproduce that at all
[05:52] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: 915resolution, by any chance?
[05:53] <StevenK> jdong: Russ Allbery, it's a Debian change that we got when cjwatson merged in 1:4.3p2-7
[05:53] <jdong> whee!
[05:53] <jdong> russ, thank you, I hope this message psychically gets to you
[05:53] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: no, this is X hardcoding it. We use radeon 7000 or 9250 in all of our computers
[05:53] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: ahh.  fun
[05:53] <jdong> now I shall upgrade the entire EECS lab to Feisty
[05:53] <jdong> ;-)
[05:53] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: unlike most hacks, I have absolutely no idea why we did it
[05:55] <Hobbsee> nemo_home: does that only occur with teh generic kernel?
[05:56] <Hobbsee> to not show up in lsmod would be odd
[05:57] <Hobbsee> keescook: did it work?
[05:58] <keescook> Hobbsee: yawp, xorg works.  :)
[05:58] <Hobbsee> keescook: yay!
[05:58] <keescook> and I'm still hardware accelerated.  whee.  uploading...
[05:58] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:58] <Hobbsee> keescook: those affected will be very appreciative
[05:58] <Hobbsee> assuming they're using feisty, of course
[06:02] <keescook> hiya asac
[06:10] <nemo_home> Hobbsee: hey. sorry. didn't realise it would take you so little time to update. was taking opportunity of restored connection to update stuff on her machine.
[06:12] <Hobbsee> nemo_home: ahhh
[06:12] <nemo_home> Hobbsee: all she did, and I paraphrase, was to follow the prompt asking her to reboot her computer. I imagine that it was a scheduled kernel update in stable. after this update her internet didn't work.  I eventually got it running by trial and error and getting her to run the above command with -generic.  I then used the restored connection to note that her kernel name had changed
[06:12] <Hobbsee> nemo_home: odd.  i dont know why.
[06:12] <Hobbsee> it all works fine here, with the kernel update - card flashes, networkmanager finds the card.  it's obviously happening only for some people.
[06:13] <nemo_home> Hobbsee: after update what does uname -r  return for you?
[06:13] <Hobbsee> -11
[06:13] <nemo_home> huh.
[06:13] <nemo_home> wtf
[06:13] <nemo_home> I wonder if it is her repo list!
[06:13] <nemo_home> maybe I broke her machine :(
[06:14] <nemo_home> I'd followed instructions on ubuntu website for adding unofficial repos so she could play her DVDs and mp3s and such.
[06:14] <nemo_home> if so I'm really sorry for wasting dev time
[06:14] <Hobbsee> i'ts not a problem
[06:14] <Hobbsee> you're not the only one
[06:15] <nemo_home> 2.6.17-10-386  is definitely her uname -r - *checks update log*
[06:15] <_ion> Hehe, good quit message.
[06:20] <LaserJock> jdong: you're going to MIT now?
[06:20] <jdong> LaserJock: yeah
[06:21] <LaserJock> when did you start?
[06:21] <jdong> last week
[06:21] <LaserJock> I knew you were heading there
[06:21] <LaserJock> ah, cool
[06:21] <jdong> this place rocks :)
[06:21] <LaserJock> heh
[06:21] <jdong> and it rocks even more now that I can passwordless ssh onto the network
[06:22] <LaserJock> I thought of going there, but I'm from a little town in Montana, the idea of going to MA scared me off
[06:22] <LaserJock> :-)
[06:22] <jdong> :)
[06:22] <jdong> I'm glad I don't have to drive in this place :)
[06:23] <jdong> anyone on feisty use evolution with IMAP?
[06:23] <jdong> it seems to be acting up... refusing to see new mail
[06:23] <LaserJock> I've not had great success with evo and IMAP
[06:25] <jdong> well, back to using mh :D
[06:25] <jdong> man, I still have to meet the great mako one of these days
[12:24] <geser> 11
[12:24] <geser> 11
[02:02] <yacoob> Greetings. Can anyone tell me what was the reasoning behind making linux-686 package obsolete with linux-generic?
[02:03] <tfheen> the functionality is superseded in -generic
[02:04] <yacoob> allright, where the optimalization for amd users and such went? :)
[02:04] <tfheen> AMD CPUs are generally quite well off with about the same optimisations as Intel CPUs.
[02:06] <yacoob> well, the options in kernel config are there, so I guess they weren't made just for kicks...
[02:06] <yacoob> anyway, is there any reasoning put anywhere on launchpad behind this change?
[02:06] <Chipzz> yacoob: they're there for gentoo ricers ;P
[02:06] <tfheen> no, but it was discussed on ubuntu-devel.
[02:06] <mdke_> there is reasoning on the mailing list
[02:07] <yacoob> Chipzz, :)
[02:07] <mdke_> launchpad isn't used for reasoning :)
[02:07] <mc44> yacoob: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-August/019983.html
[02:07] <yacoob> 'reason' and 'launchpad' don't go together you say? :)
[02:07] <mdke_> that's not what I said
[02:08] <yacoob> hm, this post is interesting, thanks.
[02:10] <yacoob> apparently I haven't build the kernel by hand for way to long - did things like support for processor-specific extensions made their way to loadable modules?
[02:11] <tfheen> no, but certain operations are selected at boot-time.
[02:12] <yacoob> I'd need to take a poke at .config of this generic kernel...
[02:17] <yacoob> still - where and when specific optimizations are selected?
[02:17] <yacoob> (asking in the meantime, before I lay my hands on the actual config of this new kernel :)
[02:21] <mjg59> The optimisations are generic 686
[02:22] <mjg59> Which, it turns out, are pretty much what you want for any modern processors
[02:22] <yacoob> (I knew all of this "technological progress" was one big hype... :)
[02:51] <angasule> would it be possible for a kernel upgrade to check what packages depend on it and not upgrade/warn? I'm talking specifically because I had an nvidia driver from another repo (not manually installed), and with the new kernel in edgy I lost X11 (I had to use the console to edit /boot/grub/menu.lst )
[02:51] <Chipzz> not supported
[02:52] <Chipzz> also, you can install multiple kernels, but only one nvidia-glx package
[02:53] <angasule> ah, didn't know that one
[02:53] <angasule> btw, I thought ubuntu was considering including nvidia binary-only driver support by default? if so, you'd better support it
[02:54] <Chipzz> how? it's closed source...
[02:54] <angasule> Chipzz: what I said earlier: give a warning, so that people are not dumped to the console
[02:54] <Chipzz> no
[02:55] <Chipzz> how is ubuntu going to support closed source drivers?
[02:55] <Chipzz> it's hard to act on bugreports that way
[02:55] <angasule> same as everybody else who supports closed source drivers :)
[02:55] <Chipzz> wrong
[02:55] <angasule> and btw, what I said is clear
[02:55] <Chipzz> no-one supports closed source drivers
[02:55] <Chipzz> bzzzzzzt'
[02:56] <Chipzz> this is of course, depending on what you mean by "support"
[02:56] <angasule> of course :)
[02:56] <angasule> and btw, I was clear about the 'how'
[02:56] <angasule> say "if you do this, your binary driver won't work"
[02:57] <Chipzz> and I was clear that you can install multiple kernels in parallel so your sugestion won't work? :)
[02:57] <Chipzz> you can not force a user to boot a particular kernel
[02:57] <angasule> Chipzz: umh, you can't give a warning?
[02:57] <Chipzz> 14:57 < Chipzz> you can not force a user to boot a particular kernel
[02:57] <Chipzz> it will break depending on what kernel you boot
[02:58] <angasule> when installing a different kernel, give a warning, on *install*, not on the boot menu
[02:58] <Chipzz> again, wrong
[02:58] <Chipzz> people don't care about kernels
[02:59] <Chipzz> (Your grandmother) "What's this kernel this bloody thing is babbling about?" and subsequnt ignore
[02:59] <angasule> "proceeding with this upgrade may cause problem with your graphical environment, do you wish to proceed?"
[02:59] <angasule> and dumping her to the console is better?
[02:59] <Chipzz> no
[03:00] <angasule> that you don't *like* the warning is different from "it's not possible"
[03:00] <Chipzz> it's not that the ubuntu developers don't like it
[03:00] <Chipzz> it's the users that don't care and which will proceed regardingly
[03:00] <Chipzz> *regardlessly
[03:01] <Chipzz> "Yeah yeah whatever" *click ok*
[03:01] <Chipzz> that or:
[03:01] <Chipzz> *panic*
[03:01] <Chipzz> bottom line is
[03:01] <angasule> the "yeah whatever" crowd will not have an excuse, while the *panic* would *PANIC* at the console
[03:02] <Chipzz> in normal situations the kernel and nvidia module are upgraded together, and the system will always boot the last kernel, so no problem
[03:02] <Chipzz> your bottom line: you did something unsupported, not ubuntu's proble,
[03:03] <Chipzz> sorry, but you cannot expect the ubuntu developers to account for every possible repository in existance. that's madness
[03:04] <angasule> what I said wouldn't require that, but a kernel reverse dependency check
[03:04] <geser> the old kernel is still available => deps fulfilled
[03:05] <Chipzz> idd
[03:05] <Chipzz> let me reiterate:
[03:05] <Chipzz> you can't have the kernel depend on a specific version of nvidia-glx, because in that case you cannot parallel install multiple kernels
[03:06] <Chipzz> you also can't have the nvidia-glx package depend on a specific kernel, because the depency may be satisfied by another installed kernel
[03:06] <angasule> ok, you guys seem as flexible as the #gnu folk, some people actually have to use their 3D cards
[03:06] <angasule> I did not ask for a single kernel version, you keep bringing up straw men
[03:06] <Chipzz> no, you just don't get it :)
[03:06] <angasule> go read slashdot
[03:07] <Chipzz> you did something unsupported, it's unsupported
[03:07] <geser> btw isn't nvidia-glx only the xorg driver?
[03:07] <fabbione> geser: no
[03:07] <Chipzz> geser: also the libGL stuff
[03:08] <fabbione> also the libGL stuff that needs to be in sync with the kernel module
[03:08] <geser> but as long as you have the same versioned kernel module for all installed kernels it should be ok
[03:08] <fabbione> tho you can have multiple kernels assuming they are all using the same version of the nvidia kernel driver
[03:08] <fabbione> geser: yes but it's not predictable
[03:08] <Chipzz> fabbione: idd
[03:09] <fabbione> and there is no easy way to enforce it
[03:09] <Chipzz> fabbione: but you have to upgrade your nvidia drivers at some point...
[03:09] <fabbione> Chipzz: s/have/can
[03:09] <Chipzz> fabbione: I hope I was polite enough to the guy?
[03:10] <fabbione> Chipzz: i think so.. i didn't read the entire scrollback
[03:10] <Chipzz> I'll agree that it's a nasty problem, but I don't think there's an easy way out
[03:11] <Chipzz> a warning may be a possibility, but like I said, users will either ignore it or panic :S
[03:12] <fabbione> no there is no easy way out without a lot of hackering
[03:12] <fabbione> most often impossible
[03:13] <Chipzz> hrrrm I'm wondering
[03:14] <Chipzz> would it be possible/appropriate to issue a warning about installing packages from non-ubuntu repositories?
[03:14] <Chipzz> "Hi, you're installing a package from a non-official repository. This is unsupported and may break your system. Proceed Yes/No?"
[03:15] <mjg59> Chipzz: We do support the use of nvidia drivers, but only from our repositories
[03:15] <fabbione> Chipzz: ask mvo
[03:15] <fabbione> gotta run
[03:15] <Chipzz> mjg59: 14:51 < angasule> would it be possible for a kernel upgrade to check what packages depend on it and not upgrade/warn? I'm talking specifically  because I had an nvidia driver from another repo (not manually installed), and with the new kernel in edgy I lost X11 (I had  to use the console to edit /boot/grub/menu.lst )
[03:16] <mjg59> Yes, I agree that he was screwed.
[03:16] <mjg59> But the issue isn't that we don't support binary drivers. It's that if you've installed third-party packages, you're likely to be screwed.
[03:16] <Chipzz> this may also deal with stuff like automatix etc
[03:16] <Chipzz> mjg59: that's what I was suggesting anyway :)
[03:17] <Chipzz> 15:15 < Chipzz> "Hi, you're installing a package from a non-official repository. This is unsupported and may break your system. Proceed Yes/No?"
[03:17] <mjg59> 13:55 < Chipzz> no-one supports closed source drivers
[03:17] <mjg59> Which is wrong. We do.
[03:18] <Chipzz> 14:56 < Chipzz> this is of course, depending on what you mean by "support"
[03:18] <mjg59> Well, it's quite clear what he meant.
[03:18] <Chipzz> mjg59: I was referring to support in the context of "fix/be accountable for bugs"
[03:18] <mjg59> Which is entirely not what he was asking about
[03:19] <mjg59> Please don't say things like that to users. It just gives them the wrong impression of what the problem is.
[03:19] <Chipzz> hrrrm ok
[03:19] <mjg59> In this case, it has nothing to do with closed drivers. It's the fact that they installed drivers from a third-party repository
[03:19] <Chipzz> uhu
[03:20] <Chipzz> hence my suggestion about the warning
[03:20] <mjg59> I'm not criticising your suggestion. I'm criticising your earlier behaviour.
[03:20] <Chipzz> well, to be fair, I did clarify my point afterwards
[03:20] <mjg59> Once he was already confused
[03:21] <Chipzz> blah :P anyway...
[03:21] <Enola_Gay> hi all
[03:22] <Enola_Gay> Is ntfs-3g integration planned for Feisty?
[03:22] <mjg59> Enola_Gay: At this point, it looks unlikely
[03:22] <mjg59> It's still an rc, so we're still a bit reluctant about using it by default
[03:22] <mjg59> Eating people's Windows partitions would be really quite bad
[03:22] <Enola_Gay> It could help Ubuntu a lot since data exchange ist much more easier and it makes much sense for Vista.
[03:23] <Enola_Gay> mjg59: Ok, that makes sense.
[03:23] <Chipzz> Enola_Gay: we do support read-only ntfs access for one way data exchange :)
[03:23] <Chipzz> (I think :P)
[03:24] <mjg59> Yes, ntfs is supported r/o
[03:24] <Enola_Gay> Chipzz: Yeah, but if you have a data partition you need fat32 which isn't so good. 2gb limit, fragmentation and so on.
[03:25] <Enola_Gay> mjg59: Chipzz: And afaik the installer uses ntfsresize which could be very bad too
[03:25] <mjg59> Enola_Gay: ntfsresize has been tested a great deal more
[03:25] <Enola_Gay> The possibility is much more higher crashing the whole partition with this one
[03:25] <Chipzz> Enola_Gay: no, because ntfsresize doesn't actually change your data
[03:25] <mjg59> Chipzz: !
[03:25] <mjg59> Chipzz: It rewrites large chunks of the filesystem
[03:25] <Chipzz> mjg59?
[03:25] <Enola_Gay> mjg59: The Dapper ntfsresize could make problems with fragmented partions afaik
[03:25] <Chipzz> mjg59: allow me to clarify
[03:26] <Enola_Gay> Chipzz: Yes, if the partition is completly defragmented which is not so likely?
[03:26] <Chipzz> mjg59: one of the problems with ntfs, as I understand it, is that ntfs supports compressed and encrypted files
[03:26] <mjg59> Chipzz: No, that's not relevant
[03:26] <mjg59> It's trivial to refuse to touch those. 
[03:27] <Chipzz> the problem with ntfs-3g is, that when *altering* a file, which may be compressed/encrypted, this may cause data corruption
[03:27] <Chipzz> ntfsresize as I understand it doesn't actually touch the contents of files, it just shuffles them on-disk
[03:27] <Enola_Gay> Chipzz: Encrypted files is no problem since it could be only read with user login and compressd could be read. Nothing more is needed. Maybe the permissions but no multi user server would use ntfs under linux imho.
[03:28] <mjg59> Chipzz: No. ntfs-3g manages that perfectly well. 
[03:28] <mjg59> The issue isn't file access. That's very, very straightforward.
[03:28] <mjg59> The issue is dealing with filesystem metadata and layout. That's the hard part.
[03:28] <mjg59> ntfsresize alters that to a huge extent.
[03:29] <Chipzz> hrrrrm, maybe my understanding of the problem is incorrect then
[03:29] <Enola_Gay> mjg59: What's with the hidden data like the internet download tag?
[03:29] <mjg59> Enola_Gay: All ought to be fine
[03:29] <mjg59> Chipzz: It would appear so
[03:30] <Chipzz> as I understand it, ntfsresize just shuffles blocks of data, and alters the directory indexes accordingly (in case of a fragmented ntfs fs)
[03:30] <Enola_Gay> I can't wait until a stable version with Ubuntu is out. So you can resize ntfs and save data on it. That would make linux testing much more easier for everyone.
[03:30] <mjg59> Enola_Gay: Indeed. With luck, feisty+1
[03:31] <mjg59> Enola_Gay: I'll look into making ntfs-3g easier to use, so people can just install it
[03:31] <Enola_Gay> cool
[03:31] <Enola_Gay> mjg59: But it isn't shipped with Live CD?
[03:31] <mjg59> Enola_Gay: No, sadly
[03:32] <mjg59> Getting it into ship at this point isn't likely to happen
[03:32] <Enola_Gay> So you need Knoppix or something like that for "reparing".
[03:32] <mjg59> If you have network access, you can install packages
[03:32] <Enola_Gay> Does someone know if a grub reparing function is shipped with the CD?
[03:32] <Enola_Gay> mjg59: That's true.
[03:33] <sistpoty> any archive admin around, who could look why xmms-sid (binary) hasn't been published for edgy-proposed, while the source is published? (bug #82692)
[03:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82692 in xmms-sid "[SRU]  xmms-sid broken in edgy" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82692
[03:34] <Enola_Gay> It is very hard for a new user to reinstall grub if it is removed from mbr
[03:35] <Enola_Gay> Afaik Suse has a Live CD grub entry or something like this for the problem.
[03:36] <mjg59> For those of you interested in wireless, we have some exciting hotness lined up in the near future
[03:37] <mjg59> Depending on how quickly we can fix stuff up, potentially including an actual free atheros driver
[03:38] <givre> mjg59: easier configuration of ntfs-3g -> http://givre.cabspace.com/ntfs-config/ . actually in the upload queue
[03:38] <Enola_Gay> That would be gerat.
[03:38] <Enola_Gay> mjg59: Is this driver compatible with network-manager and wpa?
[03:39] <mjg59> Enola_Gay: Yeah
[03:39] <mjg59> Well, to the extent that any devicescape drivers are
[03:39] <kmon> mjg59: will it work with new macbooks? :)
[03:39] <mjg59> kmon: We'll be working on that
[03:39] <Enola_Gay> That's great. Feisty would be the first Ubuntu version which could deal with wpa out of the box afaik. At least from the live cd.
[03:39] <mjg59> No guarantees
[03:40] <kmon> it's based on dadwifi right?
[03:40] <mjg59> Yup
[03:40] <mjg59> I'm having some trouble with dscape drivers and n-m at the moment, but it's a generic problem that we'll have fixed
[03:40] <mjg59> Especially since we'll probably be going with iwlwifi rather than ipw3945
[03:40] <kmon> I thought openhal was lagging behind
[03:40] <mjg59> It's behind the closed hal right now
[03:41] <mjg59> But ought to be fixable
[03:41] <mjg59> It almost works on my (very recent) atheros
[03:41] <mjg59> I'm just testing it on older hardware now
[03:41] <kmon> great news
[03:41] <shackan__> awesome
[03:41] <Enola_Gay> Macbooks have no intel wlan chip?
[03:41] <kmon> Enola_Gay: no
[03:42] <shackan__> mjg59, unrelated, is anybody hacking on 802.11n yet?
[03:42] <mjg59> Not really
[03:42] <Enola_Gay> shackan__: Yeah, that would be interesting.
[03:42] <mjg59> Intel are committed to d80211 support, and 4965 has n support
[03:42] <kmon> afaik it's a airport card which is based on atheros chipset
[03:42] <mjg59> So there'll be no issue with getting generic 802.11n
[03:43] <mjg59> Specific hardware support might take a little longer
[03:47] <Enola_Gay> Grub reparing would be great.
[03:47] <Enola_Gay> cu all
[03:47] <Enola_Gay> mjg59: Chipzzthanks for information.
[03:50] <kmon> bye
[04:26] <mjg59> cjwatson: Hm. I'm getting "Hard disk error" from Grub on a Toshiba that was previously awkward - it's one that doesn't pass the right hard drive id from the bios
[04:35] <tfheen> mjg59: grub then just tries 0x80, iirc?
[04:35] <mjg59> tfheen: I thought so, yeah.
[04:35] <mjg59> But it's now failing when trying to read the geometry.
[04:35] <tfheen> at least I remember to have read a comment to that effect in the source.
[04:35] <mjg59> Which implies that it's failing to find LBA support
[04:35] <mjg59> Which makes me think that something is very broken
[04:40] <mjg59> Also, grub build-deps on gcc-4.0
[04:41] <mjg59> Which doesn't seem to be available any more
[04:41] <tfheen> true, I removed that.  I wonder why it wanted 4.0
[04:41] <mjg59> tfheen: I'm trying with my old patch to fall back to the device grub was installed to
[04:44] <mjg59> stage1.S:450: Error: attempt to .org/.space backwards? (-6)
[04:44] <mjg59> Hm.
[04:45] <mjg59> That's something to do with my patch.
[04:46] <mjg59> Ah, I've made it too long...
[04:52] <mjg59> Hm.
[04:52] <mjg59> Can I fit this into 4 lines?
[04:53] <mjg59> Oh, wait a moment
[04:53] <mjg59> tfheen: stage1.S - the first line of boot_drive_check:
[04:53] <mjg59> Does that look right to you?
[04:54] <mjg59> Surely it'll skip straight past?
[04:56] <asac> keescook: hello ... it was just my daily reconnect :)
[04:56] <tfheen> yes, that just jumps, I'd think.
[04:56] <mjg59> tfheen: Which is surely not right
[04:59] <tfheen> wouldn't think so, no.
[05:01] <mjg59> tfheen: How do I install grub in an installer chroot?
[05:01] <mjg59> grub-install just segfaults for me
[05:02] <mjg59> Hmph. So does grub.
[05:39] <cjwatson> sistpoty: I fixed up xmms-sid yesterday
[05:41] <cjwatson> sistpoty: the binaries got lost due to a locking error, and then my initial attempt to resurrect them failed due to somebody writing "-proposed-updates" instead of "-proposed" in a script. But it's been fixed since yesterday.
[05:44] <mjg59> cjwatson: Any idea why grub is just segfaulting on me?
[05:48] <cjwatson> mjg59: none
[05:48] <cjwatson> (and I'm not really here)
[05:48] <mjg59> cjwatson: Ok
[05:49] <cjwatson> (aside from the facile "somebody broke it")
[05:49] <mjg59> Worked fine in the installer, I just can't run it once the machine is up
[05:59] <mjg59> cjwatson: Turns out that we don't seem to be able to build a working grub righ tnow
[06:01] <cjwatson> yum
[06:01] <cjwatson> last version I uploaded was 19 January, and I'm pretty sure that worked
[06:02] <mjg59> cjwatson: There's no gcc-4.0 in the archive now
[06:02] <mjg59> Which is a pretty good argument against it building :)
[06:02] <mjg59> And using 4.1 /seems/ to make it segfault
[06:03] <cjwatson> bug 51518
[06:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51518 in grub "grub 0.97-11ubuntu1 segfaults on amd64" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/51518
[06:04] <mjg59> I'm just trying with 3.3
[06:04] <mjg59> cjwatson: Looks pretty much exactly like that, yeah
[06:05] <mjg59> cjwatson: Right. We either need to fix it to work with 4.1, re-add 4.0 to the archive or fall back to 3.3 or 3.4
[06:06] <cjwatson> I think some time spent on the first would be well-spent
[06:06] <cjwatson> we have a couple of months to release yet, and I'd rather not keep moving backwards
[06:06] <Keybuk> "over three months until release"
[06:06] <Keybuk> it makes the panic go away if you repeat that to yourself
[06:06] <cjwatson> in what timeline?
[06:07] <mjg59> Keybuk: s/three/two/?
[06:08] <Keybuk> I did actually mean to type two
[06:11] <mjg59> cjwatson: Gah. And upstream's fix doesn't actually work anyway, so I'm going to revert that and re-add my own.
[06:11] <Robot101> iwj: did Xen upstream ever reply/fix the checksum crack?
[06:11] <Robot101> just ran into it. /again/. sigh.
[06:13] <cjwatson> mjg59: tried valgrinding it?
[06:13] <mjg59> cjwatson: Oh, sorry, not that
[06:13] <mjg59> cjwatson: I mean the upstream "fix" for dealing with bioses that pass the wrong drive ID
[06:13] <mjg59> cjwatson: 1) the code is never executed because there's a jmp at the start that skips it
[06:14] <mjg59> 2) Even without that, it doesn't work
[06:14] <cjwatson> sure, I can believe that
[06:15] <mjg59> So I'll switch back to mine, which is what we carried previously
[06:15] <mjg59> The build fixing is likely to be more painful
[06:16] <cjwatson> hence my valgrind question
[06:16] <mjg59> I'll get to that next
[06:16] <cjwatson> I realise it's painful with grub due to the simulator business
[06:16] <mjg59> I'm trying to get this machine booting first :)
[06:16] <cjwatson> but from the strace it looks like this is happening just at exit from the simulator or something like that
[06:17] <mjg59> Yeah
[06:17] <mjg59> It's not in response to a library or system call
[06:21] <cjwatson> mjg59: might be worth looking at http://savannah.gnu.org/file/grub-0.95-use_mmap_exec_stack.patch?file_id=2213 instead of the dodgy mprotect thing I did way back in hoary
[06:23] <cjwatson> mjg59: somebody commented in response to my patch on bug-grub that it was Bad and Wrong in various ways
[06:23] <cjwatson> I just never did anything about it :-/
[06:24] <sistpoty> cjwatson: thanks
[06:28] <mjg59> cjwatson: Won't build on ia32
[06:28] <mjg59> Since there's no MAP_32BIT
[06:28] <Mez> keybuk, nice article on upstart in this months linux mag
[06:29] <_ion> mez: Is it available online?
[06:29] <Mez> _ion no idea
[06:30] <cjwatson> mjg59: yeah, I'm not saying it's correct, but my patch is also just plain wrong
[06:30] <mjg59> cjwatson: What's the mprotect stuff actually needed for? Just x86_64?
[06:30] <Keybuk> Mez: still not seen it
[06:30] <cjwatson> mjg59: look for a patch by Peter Jones of Red Hat on bug-grub ages ago
[06:30] <cjwatson> mjg59: anything with the NX bit
[06:30] <mjg59> Ah
[06:31] <Mez> Keybuk, ah shame, you should get a copy :D
[06:31] <mjg59> cjwatson: http://cvs.mandriva.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/SPECS/grub/grub-0.97-nxstack.patch?revision=1.1&view=markup ?
[06:32] <cjwatson> mjg59: http://www.arcknowledge.com/gmane.comp.boot-loaders.grub.bugs/2005-02/msg00021.html
[06:33] <cjwatson> the Mandriva patch seems to do other random stuff; not quite sure what that is
[06:33] <cjwatson> Peter seems to know what he's talking about so I'd go with his as a starting point :-)
[06:34] <mjg59> I don't have an nx box here
[06:34] <mjg59> So I'm a touch worried about breaking stuff
[06:35] <cjwatson> if it fixes your problem, I can test it tomorrow
[06:35] <mjg59> Ok
[06:37] <mjg59> Now I just need to figure out how to get a plain text version
[06:41] <Mez> _ion, nope it's not on their website
[06:42] <_ion> Ok, thanks anyway.
[07:03] <mjg59> cjwatson: No, doesn't fix it
[07:10] <mjg59> cjwatson: It seems to be in grub_putstr, oddly
[07:10] <mjg59> I'm not sure whether I believe that
[07:17] <mjg59> cjwatson: Hm. grub_printf seems to get broken, somehow.
[07:17] <mjg59> cjwatson: If I comment out line 213 of char_io.c, things work
[07:24] <mjg59> cjwatson: Eh. There's something very funky with this code.
[07:27] <mjg59> cjwatson: This code scares me, and I don't understand why gdb is telling me lies.
[07:33] <chrisj> cjwatson:wrt email how short is short term?
[07:43] <bddebian> Heya
[07:47] <tepsipakki> what's the best tool to merge two files together? (massive changelogs in this case)
[07:49] <tfheen> I've found meld useful in the past.
[07:55] <tepsipakki> tfheen: thanks, looks like a proper tool :)
[08:23] <cjwatson> chrisj: within the next two or three weeks, maybe?
[10:58] <mdke> is today's daily a good bet?
[11:08] <tepsipakki> blimey... xorg-7.2 runs without xorg.conf
[11:08] <tepsipakki> did 7.1 do that?
[11:08] <_ion> I don't know, but that's very cool.
[11:10] <Burgundavia> tepsipakki: nope
[11:10] <siretart> tepsipakki: how do you configure multihead without xorg.conf?
[11:10] <tepsipakki> siretart: no idea :)
[11:10] <tepsipakki> maybe it isn't supposed to do that
[11:11] <tepsipakki> it detects the device, then uses "Builtin Default" stuff for the configuration
[11:11] <tfheen> once you get monitor hotplugging, you just start some configuration agent which tells the X server to add a second head.
[11:12] <Burgundavia> RH is planning to redo system-config-xfre86 for 7.3
[11:12] <Burgundavia> 7.3=output hotplug
[11:12] <siretart> sounds promising :)
[11:13] <Burgundavia> means F7 is not shipping with a graphical client, as 7.2 changes some bits
[11:13] <siretart> tfheen: can you please give back gxine on sparc? I fixed the FTBFS for xine-lib on sparc
[11:13] <siretart> Burgundavia: F7?
[11:14] <tepsipakki> there's some cool stuff on debian XSF todo-list for Lenny
[11:14] <tfheen> siretart: given-back
[11:14] <Burgundavia> siretart: fedora 7
[11:14] <Burgundavia> tepsipakki: you talking about avahi
[11:14] <Burgundavia> ?
[11:14] <Burgundavia> siretart: Fedora core is now just Fedora
[11:15] <siretart> tfheen: thnx
[11:15] <tepsipakki> Burgundavia: no, we have that already?
[11:15] <Burgundavia> tepsipakki: you going to be able to get all this lovely xorg stuff past tfheen?
[11:15] <siretart> tepsipakki: you mean besides monitor hotplugging?
[11:16] <tepsipakki> Burgundavia: hah
[11:16] <tepsipakki> remains to be seen ;)
[11:16] <Burgundavia> tepsipakki: oh, Lenyy, you mean the Debian release, not the person
[11:16] <tepsipakki> siretart: http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/XSFTODO
[11:16] <tepsipakki> Burgundavia: indeed :)
[11:16] <Burgundavia> Leonard Poetering is one of the avahi devs
[11:16] <tepsipakki> heh
[11:17] <Burgundavia> what we need now is somebody to glue all the bits together to have a truly free multiseat
[11:17] <Burgundavia> as Hal is about to be able to handle multiseat stuff
[11:18] <tepsipakki> I wondered why the screen looked strange without xorg.conf.. it used the maximum resolution the monitor was capable of :)
[11:19] <tepsipakki> and a lower refresh rate
[11:19] <siretart> tepsipakki: I hope you get useful options via xrandr
[11:19] <tepsipakki> yes, it can be changed from the prefs easily
[11:24] <tepsipakki> should I build GNOME/KDE in the chroot to make sure the libs don't have regressions?-)
[11:27] <tepsipakki> hmm, no Composite
[11:36] <tepsipakki> hah, that was only a stupid config error
[11:36] <tepsipakki> and now I have compiz running.. was not possible before
[11:45] <_ion> tepsipakki: With what gfx card?
[11:46] <tepsipakki> Radeon 8500
[11:47] <tepsipakki> but maybe it was because of that misconfiguration.. anyway it doesn't crash when running glxgears like before