[12:21] <LaserJock> I managed to get good fonts in emacs
[12:21] <LaserJock> had to get emacs packages from theCore
[12:22] <LaserJock> hmm, I'll have to think about "screencast of terminal" vs "CLI log"
[12:23] <nixternal> hmm, theCore has the goods ey
[12:23] <nixternal> I will have to contact him and see what is so special about his
[12:23] <nixternal> I have all of he syntax highlighting and what not. The Chicago GNU/LUG gave me a ton of pointers
[12:23] <nixternal> PIZZAS HERE!!!
[12:23] <LaserJock> he compiles with some flage
[12:23] <LaserJock> and then I run emacs --enable-font-backend --font "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono-12"
[12:42] <LaserJock> nixternal: you running edgy or fiesty?
[01:25] <nixternal> LaserJock: feisty
[01:26] <LaserJock> hmm
[01:26] <LaserJock> I've got edgy .debs for emacs
[01:27] <nixternal> No fonts match `Bitstream Vera Sans Mono-12'
[01:27] <nixternal> that's what I get when I try to run it that way
[01:28] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:28] <LaserJock> you have to recompile it with some font support thing enabled
[01:28] <nixternal> xfont support I believe
[01:28] <nixternal> don't know why our package wouldn't have it
[01:29] <LaserJock> I think there might be a reason Debian doesn't do it, not sure
[01:38] <LaserJock> nixternal: the other thing is I usually run emacs in a terminal anyway
[01:41] <nixternal> I was doing the same, but having it opened in another window is nice
[01:42] <LaserJock> I just use a seperate terminal window when I want to do that
[01:42] <LaserJock> the only thing is I'm not good enough with emacs to do without the menu for certain things
[01:44] <nixternal> ahh, I remove the menus, scrollbars and what not from .emacs
[01:44] <nixternal> it forces you to become proficient with the meta keys
[01:44] <nixternal> Ctrl-x Ctrl-f to open a file
[01:44] <nixternal> Ctrl-x Ctrl-s to save
[01:44] <nixternal> Ctrl-x Ctrl-c to close
[01:44] <nixternal> that is all I need right now :)
[01:44] <LaserJock> well, I can do those fine
[01:44] <LaserJock> it's just specialty menus that some modes add
[01:44] <nixternal> oh, and Alt+q == hard word wrap
[02:56] <LaserJock> theCore: hi!
[02:57] <theCore> hello LaserJock
[02:57] <LaserJock> theCore: do you have emacs packages for Feisty?
[02:57] <theCore> yes
[02:57] <theCore> I just made it :)
[02:57] <LaserJock> theCore: I think nixternal might be interested in them
[02:57] <LaserJock> and I am to as I'm upgrading to fiesty right now
[02:57] <theCore> http://debs.peadrop.com
[02:58] <theCore> LaserJock: be careful, Feisty is a mined area, right now
[02:58] <theCore> I have been bitten by more than one bug
[03:00] <theCore> I got about 10 bugs to submit, and 3 of them are show-stopper bugs
[03:01] <LaserJock> well, I don't think I'll have much of any problems
[03:01] <LaserJock> but I'll be on the lookout
[03:01] <LaserJock> I hardly ever find bugs
[03:30] <theCore> LaserJock: any update on the packaging guide?
[03:32] <LaserJock> theCore: kinda
[03:32] <LaserJock> it's not being shipped anymore
[03:32] <theCore> :'(
[03:32] <LaserJock> well, it'll come back in full glory ;-)
[03:33] <LaserJock> I'm going to ship it as a separate package
[03:33] <LaserJock> the changes made in Ubuntu and Kubuntu for Fiesty make the packaging guide not fit in very well
[03:34] <theCore> the topic-based help changes?
[03:34] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:59] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3792 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: Kubuntu networking content
[04:00] <nixternal> hrmm, it seems the cron job isn't running on the server
[04:01] <nixternal> hola jsgotangco!
[04:01] <jsgotangco> hello nixternal how are you doing
[04:01] <nixternal> tired, very tired
[04:02] <nixternal> trying to get all of the Kubuntu and Edubuntu docs done within the next month
[04:02] <jsgotangco> heh you should take it esay
[04:02] <nixternal> school keeps getting in my way :)
[04:03] <jsgotangco> heh i am enjoying my time at the moment
[04:04] <nixternal> I am always enjoying my time, stress and all :)
[04:04] <jsgotangco> i am more involved with sahana now
[04:05] <nixternal> nice
[04:05] <nixternal> so that is keeping you busy
[04:06] <jsgotangco> it is a good project and i know some of the people behind it very well
[04:07] <nixternal> that's cool
[04:10] <nixternal> I wonder how many people on the kubuntu-users list or the edubuntu-users list wants to write some documentation
[07:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84484 in ubuntu-doc "Launchpad recommends translating ubuntu-doc's main--deleted" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84484
[10:35] <mdke_> Laser_away: is it possible to get the packaging and server guides building as standalone binary packages from the ubuntu-docs source? Does feature freeze prevent us from doing that for feisty?
[12:49] <mdke_> nixternal: good job on the rustling up of contributors
[03:38] <j1mc> where should we report bugs for Xubuntu-doc bugs?  i have found two similar links
[03:38] <j1mc> link 1: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bugs
[03:38] <j1mc> link 2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bugs
[05:14] <nixternal> mdke_: that call snagged 2 people interested. whew, and both of them claim they are tech writers.
[05:15] <nixternal> one scared me by claiming he is on location in Redmond, Washington writing for a large vendor
[06:33] <mdke_> nixternal: nice
[07:34] <nixternal> hrmm, How come the artwork final deadline is after the string freeze? That kind of makes it difficult to do screenshots and get them into the docs
[08:01] <mdke_> nixternal: yes, it's because they didn't really think much about doc string freeze (as opposed to programs string freeze)
[08:02] <mdke_> nixternal: anyway, we can have all the strings ready by freeze and add screenshots without any problem afterwards
[08:02] <nixternal> kind of stinks, but hopefully there won't be an artwork mess this time around
[08:02] <mdke_> course there will be :)
[08:02] <nixternal> ya, I am planning on doing that, at least get the information in there, with a temp image placeholder
[08:03] <nixternal> hehe
[08:03] <mdke_> what sort of screenshots are you planning on using?
[08:03] <nixternal> hey, good job on the new Yelp layout, it looks really good
[08:04] <mdke_> thanks, needs a bit of visual tweaking, but it's a start
[08:04] <nixternal> I really don't know yet, but just in case
[08:04] <mdke_> not my work really, don took it over
[08:04] <nixternal> it is very clean, I like it
[08:04] <nixternal> I am hopefully doing something similar for Kubuntu, but not sure if we are tying it into KHelpCenter of using Konqueror for all help yet
[08:05] <nixternal> I can't believe we are already a month away from freezing, 2 months from release
[08:05] <nixternal> time flew by on this one
[08:11] <mdke_> yup
[09:57] <nixternal> jjesse: do you have any problems running Feisty in VMWare?
[09:57] <nixternal> any funky boot up messages
[10:17] <philippbieber> nixternal: I read your post on the Ubuntu Users Mailing List and would like to help on the documentation, though I'm not entirely sure where...
[10:17] <nixternal> philippbieber: rock on!
[10:17] <nixternal> there are pleny of places to start. is there any one section that you are fairly proficient with?
[10:17] <philippbieber> I could offer translating the docu to German, is there any need for that?
[10:18] <nixternal> there will be that need come next month for sure
[10:18] <nixternal> March 8th is when we submit the docs to the translation teams
[10:18] <philippbieber> OK, I'll mark that date for me
[10:19] <philippbieber> From those points mentioned in your mails, I think I could do some work on Desktop Configuration
[10:20] <nixternal> let me take a look and see what all needs some working there
[10:20] <philippbieber> OK!
[10:21] <nixternal> hrmm, I need to remove a bunch of stuff from it, i.e., Networking, partitions and booting
[10:21] <nixternal> when I think of "configuring your desktop", I think of customizing the look of it and what not
[10:21] <philippbieber> Wallpapers, Themes, Icons,...
[10:21] <mdke> me too
[10:22] <nixternal> philippbieber: exactly
[10:22] <philippbieber> Also something like the 3D desktop?
[10:22] <nixternal> there seems to be one section called "Desktop Tips"
[10:22] <nixternal> 3d desktop? please don't say Beryl or Compiz :)
[10:22] <mdke> it's probably a good idea to cover that actually, it will be a popular task
[10:22] <nixternal> mdke: when it works :)
[10:22] <philippbieber> I'd love to say Metisse, but yeah, that's what I had in mind ...
[10:23] <mdke> nixternal: there are lots of different degrees of "works"
[10:23] <philippbieber> I didn't have any problems with it ... =/
[10:23] <nixternal> mdke: true, if we document it, document it for NVidia cards only then
[10:23] <nixternal> Beryl doesn't work with ATI, and works here and there with Intel
[10:23] <philippbieber> Then I'd be no good choice for 3D or I'd have to do something for INTEL
[10:23] <nixternal> and with NVidia cards, they have to be of the newer generation cards
[10:24] <nixternal> philippbieber: are you using Beryl on an Intel?
[10:25] <nixternal> but as it stands, I have 2 standalone desktops, 1 NVidia GF4 and 1 ATI Radeon 9700, Beryl will not run on either of those
[10:25] <philippbieber> I have a INTEL GMA 950 and it worked out of the box and flawlessly with Beryl (under Edgy
[10:25] <philippbieber> )
[10:25] <nixternal> rock on, I guess I am slowly working up the nerve to install it and configure it
[10:25] <nixternal> the sad thing, the ATI issues with Beryl are ATI's fault for not allowing composite
[10:26] <philippbieber> It's not hard... I used the Beryl Upstream Repos and from there I installed the current version
[10:26] <nixternal> as for NVidia, they made a lot of their cards like the GF4 and older part of the legacy driver, which Beryl won't support
[10:26] <philippbieber> I installed it, launched it and it worked
[10:26] <nixternal> nice
[10:26] <philippbieber> on my girlfriends laptop it was the same
[10:26] <nixternal> I guess I will work on trying it out here one of these days
[10:27] <philippbieber> but I'm afraid, its not too productive
[10:27] <philippbieber> ...
[10:27] <nixternal> ya, that is the one thing I dislike about it
[10:27] <philippbieber> You can always disable it ;-)
[10:27] <nixternal> right now, I am having issues with VMware and installing vmware-tools, and I was going to try Virtualbox but that doesn't work either
[10:28] <philippbieber> Can't help you on that one.. I was planning to do that when I got some spare time...
[10:29] <philippbieber> Oh, one question for the documentation: Should I take the 6.10 documentation and addapt it to 6.14 or rewrite it?
[10:31] <nixternal> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[10:31] <nixternal> that is all of the 7.04 documentation
[10:31] <nixternal> it was branched/created from the 6.10 documentation
[10:32] <philippbieber> OK, I'll use that as a basis and the adapt it to 6.14
[10:32] <philippbieber> *7.04
[10:32] <nixternal> heh, ya, 7.04
[10:33] <philippbieber> 'Till when should I turn in the results?
[10:33] <nixternal> whenever you have something really, we have less than a month to go now, so the sooner the better
[10:34] <philippbieber> OK, I'll take my time this week!
[10:34] <nixternal> cool, if you need help, I am around quite a bit, plus there are others in here that can offer a hand
[10:35] <nixternal> Mon-Thu I am in school all day, but I check in from time to time
[10:35] <philippbieber> But I gotta go now (have to get up early tomorrow)
[10:35] <nixternal> brb, need to take the dog out so he will leave me alone :)
[10:35] <nixternal> cool philippbieber, I really appreciate the offer!
[10:35] <nixternal> and the help
[10:35] <philippbieber> No problem!
[10:36] <nixternal> my email is nixternal@ubuntu.com if you need to email me stuff to check out
[10:36] <philippbieber> I'll check in tomorrow or Tuesday (I'm in school, too)
[10:36] <nixternal> hehe, cool!
[10:36] <philippbieber> :))
[10:36] <nixternal> alright, go get some beauty sleep :)
[10:36] <philippbieber> Ok, I'll write that down ^^
[10:36] <nixternal> hehe
[10:36] <philippbieber> thanks ;-)
[10:36] <philippbieber> cya around!
[10:36] <nixternal> g'nite
[10:37] <philippbieber> good night everybody!
[10:37] <nixternal> man, I am glad he brought up the customizing desktop section, as it is currently horrible, plus some of it has been broken out into other documents already
[10:49] <Burgundavia> mdke: crack or serious crack: telling people to manually edit their menu.lst?
[10:51] <nixternal> serious crack :)
[10:51] <nixternal> especially since it will change with the next kernel upgrade
[10:51] <Burgundavia> yep
[10:53] <jjesse> nixternal: no problems so far
[10:55] <nixternal> I can't install vmware-tools
[10:55] <jjesse> interseting haven't tried
[10:56] <nixternal> it just hangs for me
[10:56] <jjesse> nice to someone interseted in helpoing out
[10:56] <jjesse> w/ kubuntu docs
[10:57] <nixternal> no doubt
[10:57] <nixternal> I am glad he picked the section he did as well
[10:57] <nixternal> it needs some major overhauling
[10:58] <jjesse> can you get adept updater to work?  i just brought up a herd 3 vm and adept updater isn't working
[10:58] <mdke> Burgundavia: certainly some kind of crack
[10:58] <nixternal> jjesse: I believe it hasn't been fixed since Herd 3, but I am not 100% positive
[10:58] <nixternal> I don't use Adept
[10:59] <jjesse> i only use adept for documentation work
[11:00] <nixternal> ya
[11:17] <LaserJock> mdke: well, they would probably go to Universe for feisty at least, and the Universe FF is 22nd
[11:18] <LaserJock> mdke: but I suppose you could build the binary packages from the ubuntu-doc source package
[11:18] <LaserJock> although I'd rather do it as seperate source for the packaging guie
[11:19] <mdke> LaserJock: how come?
[11:20] <LaserJock> well, mostly I like the idea of not being so tied to the ubuntu-docs release schedule
[11:20] <LaserJock> if I make the packaging guide release neutral it really shouldn't matter
[11:21] <LaserJock> maybe I'm just being lazy ;-)
[11:21] <mdke> you mean in terms of string freezes?
[11:21] <jjesse> would a lot change from relase to release for the packaging guide
[11:22] <mdke> I don't see that there is any release schedule that applies to ubuntu-docs that doesn't also apply to the packaging guide, tbh
[11:22] <LaserJock> jjesse: I hope to make it very release neutral. Basically it should reflect the "this is what we are doing right now"
[11:22] <LaserJock> mdke: well, that's fairly true
[11:23] <LaserJock> but I don't know that it makes sense for me to have a "edgy" packaging guide or "feisty" packaging guide
[11:23] <LaserJock> rather packaging guide version 1.2 or 2.3, etc.
[11:23] <LaserJock> at least that's how the Debian docs are done
[11:23] <mdke> can't you do that with a single source package?
[11:24] <LaserJock> except I'm tied to the ubuntu-doc releases
[11:24] <mdke> really? in terms of numbers?
[11:24] <LaserJock> I can't make a release of the packaging guide without making a release of ubuntu-docs
[11:24] <mdke> well, ubuntu-docs releases are just time snapshots
[11:24] <mdke> I don't see that being a problem still
[11:25] <LaserJock> well, it depends on how we treat it
[11:25] <LaserJock> if I get the developer's reference going it would probably work fine
[11:25] <LaserJock> the thing I'm finding is that we need more policy/reference type documentatoin
[11:26] <LaserJock> and that needs more version contol, IMO
[11:26] <LaserJock> if I just had the "learning how to create Debian/Ubuntu packages" that wouldn't be bad
[11:26] <LaserJock> once it's basically done it shouln't change much
[11:26] <mdke> ok, so maybe a separate package. It sounds like a shame though, we already have too many debian directories
[11:27] <mdke> it would be nice to have em all single source :)
[11:27] <LaserJock> yes, I honestly hadn't thought of just building a seperat binary from the ubuntu-docs source
[11:28] <LaserJock> I actually think that would be the way to go
[11:28] <LaserJock> and *if* needed split off the source down the road
[11:29] <LaserJock> I tend to think I'll (or somebody anyway) be working on another seperate policy doc
[11:29] <LaserJock> and we can shift some material to that
[11:29] <crimsun> what would go into the separate policy doc?
[11:30] <mdke> anywhere certainly it would work for the server guide?
[11:30] <mdke> anyway*
[11:30] <LaserJock> I think a lot of this stuff we have on the wiki
[11:30] <LaserJock> SRUs, etc.
[11:30] <mdke> the server guys didn't respond to my appeal on the bug report to make us a package, and my post to the -server mailing list has never been moderated through the queue.
[11:31] <LaserJock> crimsun: we *should* have an Ubuntu Developer's Reference
[11:31] <jjesse> why does it seem like it is so hard to get developers respond to *-doc requests?
[11:31] <LaserJock> I'm not sure how much actual policy that would have, but we don't have an Ubuntu Policy planned that I know of
[11:31] <mdke> jjesse: it's not; it's hard to get developers to respond to any requests; that's open source, to some extent
[11:32] <mdke> but they respond quite well to -doc requests, in general. that's my experience
[11:32] <LaserJock> it shouldn't be hard
[11:32] <jjesse> mdke: just noticed your frustration w/ the server mailing list, geting that launcpad bug fixed and a couple of other issues the team has had
[11:32] <LaserJock> I just don't know if FF would apply
[11:32] <crimsun> jjesse: because no curriculum or best practices has emphasized strongly enough the integration of documentation in design and implementation
[11:32] <mdke> it's just that the -server mailing list seems to be totally dead
[11:32] <mdke> jjesse: the server developers are a bit worse than the main ones :)
[11:33] <mdke> LaserJock: who would I ask about that?
[11:33] <mdke> I'll mail fabio maybe
[11:33] <jjesse> crimsun: that's too bad
[11:33] <crimsun> LaserJock: was there a technical reason we couldn't have just modified Debian's?
[11:33] <LaserJock> I would tend to think since we are just splitting ubuntu-docs into ubuntu-docs server-guide and packaging-guide
[11:33] <LaserJock> it wouldn't be a prblem
[11:33] <mdke> right
[11:33] <LaserJock> no new source, just binary NEW
[11:34] <LaserJock> crimsun: that was the plan
[11:34] <mdke> yes. I'll take it up with someone tomorrow
[11:34] <LaserJock> crimsun: although I wanted to do it in docbook rather than debiandoc
[11:34] <LaserJock> crimsun: there is a docbook version of the DDR but the maintainer doesn't seem to care too much about it
[11:35] <crimsun> right, I remember that as the "technical" issue.
[11:35] <LaserJock> well, back in August I thought it was going to be a wait of a month or two
[11:35] <mdke> LaserJock: we have a few scripts and bits in debian/rules and so on which all depend on having an updated list of the documents that we are shipping; since the topics occasionally change and the list shifts slightly, it would help to be able to have a central file in which to store this list of documents. Is there a simple way to get all the scripts to call from such a list?
[11:35] <jjesse> nixternal: ping
[11:36] <jjesse> nixternal: what exactly is going to happen w/ kubuntu release notes
[11:36] <nixternal> they are going on the website
[11:36] <jjesse> ok
[11:39] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3793 ubuntu/translate.sh: uploading work-in-progress slightly better translate.sh script
[11:39] <nixternal> mdke: ping
[11:39] <mdke> nixternal: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
[11:40] <nixternal> heh
[11:40] <nixternal> that was quick
[11:40] <nixternal> doh
[11:40] <nixternal> I am sorry for that, I forgot about your script
[11:40] <mdke> note also that I said something 5 minutes ago, so I'm likely to be around
[11:40] <nixternal> mdke: anywho, you are requested in #ubuntu-meeting
[11:40] <mdke> ok, if it's quick
[11:40] <jjesse> whats going on in #ubuntu-meeting
[11:41] <nixternal> that would mean I would have to scroll up :)
[11:41] <nixternal> jjesse: loco meeting
[11:41] <jjesse> oh
[11:43] <LaserJock> mdke: should be easy, maybe put a file in common/ or something with the list
[11:44] <LaserJock> mdke: in a script you should be able to do something like for doc in `cat ../../common/ubuntu-list` do blah
[11:46] <mdke> LaserJock: and should the doc names be space separated in the file or on a different line?
[11:46] <LaserJock> I *think* space seperated
[11:47] <LaserJock> although either might work, but you might have to do it a little differently
[11:47] <LaserJock> my shell knowledge isn't the best
[11:47] <LaserJock> crimsun would know
[11:51] <LaserJock> mdke: either way works
[11:51] <mdke> wow, cool
[11:51] <mdke> I'll pursue that definitely
[11:51] <mdke> we may be edging slowly towards implementing that spec
[11:52] <LaserJock> mhm, I'll help if I can, just can't promise much these days :/
[11:52] <LaserJock> gotta run
[11:52] <mdke> thanks Laser_away