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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
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| mruiz | schedule Sydney | 03:44 |
|---|---|---|
| mruiz | @schedule Sydney | 03:44 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 13 Feb 07:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 23:00: Community Council | 14 Feb 03:00: Forum Council | 14 Feb 07:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 21:00: MOTU | 15 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 03:44 |
| sid | @schedule New_York | 03:45 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/New_York: 12 Feb 15:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 07:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 11:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 15:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 05:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 03:45 |
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| mruiz | @schedule Sydney | 10:45 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 13 Feb 07:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 23:00: Community Council | 14 Feb 03:00: Forum Council | 14 Feb 07:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 21:00: MOTU | 15 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 10:45 |
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| emonkey | @schedule zurich | 10:51 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 12 Feb 21:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 10:51 |
| Hobbsee | mruiz: another sydney person! | 10:53 |
| mruiz | Hobbsee, yes | 10:53 |
| Hobbsee | :) | 10:53 |
| elkbuntu | Hobbsee, did you not meet miguel at LCA? | 11:02 |
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| Hobbsee | elkbuntu: dont think so | 11:48 |
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| xdatap | fabbione: hi, i'm a guy from loco-it, may i ask you a thing in pvt? | 07:50 |
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| benanzo | is the screencasters meeting supposed to start in a hour? | 08:05 |
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| ogra | @schedule | 08:06 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 12 Feb 20:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 12:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu | 08:06 |
| ogra | benanzo, looks like | 08:07 |
| benanzo | ok. I wasn't sure if I did the math right to get the time in my time zone | 08:07 |
| ogra | where are you ? | 08:08 |
| benanzo | west coast US. Pacific Time | 08:08 |
| ogra | @schedule los angeles | 08:08 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 12 Feb 12:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 04:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 08:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 12:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 02:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 12:00: Edubuntu | 08:08 |
| ogra | ;) | 08:08 |
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| benanzo | thanks | 08:09 |
| benanzo | i'll be back in awhile | 08:09 |
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| === popey counts down 10 mins | ||
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Screencast Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
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| tonytiger | Evening. | 08:52 |
| benanzo | morning | 08:53 |
| tonytiger | :) | 08:53 |
| emonkey | @schedule zurich | 08:55 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Zurich: Current meeting: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 08:55 |
| === popey says https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Meeting in readyness. | ||
| popey | Right then, here we go! | 09:00 |
| popey | Anyone about? | 09:00 |
| benanzo | here | 09:00 |
| Coli1 | yes, i am here. (Kent, UK) | 09:00 |
| davmor2 | here sir | 09:00 |
| Owdgit | lurking | 09:01 |
| popey | Groovy. Okay, welcome to the first Meet of the Ubuntu Screencast Team | 09:01 |
| popey | The agenda is up, if anyone would like to add to it, feel free to edit under "Any other business" and we will get to it at the end. | 09:01 |
| popey | Any questions, feel free to bring them up at any time. | 09:02 |
| popey | ok, to the first item:- * Current status | 09:02 |
| popey | * What's happened, happening, planned | 09:02 |
| popey | What happened: I made some screencasts for the Ubuntu-UK LoCo team, Matt East suggested we move it to the Documentation team so that it is not so UK-centric. Started out on my personal webspace - quickones.org, now moved to doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts | 09:02 |
| popey | Clearly other people have been making screencasts before me, I am by no means the first here | 09:03 |
| popey | youtoob and google are littered with them | 09:03 |
| popey | However I wanted to set a standard and have a format that we could use for numerous screencasts over an array of topics | 09:04 |
| popey | which leads to:- | 09:04 |
| popey | Happening: I have been working on fine tuning the method we use to create screencasts. The method is not perfect, but yields good results. Working also on getting the specifications written up for new screencasts, getting others to write some too. Also great input for new slides for the start/end of screencasts. | 09:04 |
| popey | I punched out a load of screencasts back in december, but since we became the "screencast team" this has dried up, partly so that we can get a process right so that others can contribute | 09:04 |
| popey | (more on that in a bit) | 09:04 |
| popey | Planned: Have asked for screencasts.ubuntu.com - no word yet on when/whether we can have it as a more permanent home. Of course we also need to churn out a load more high quality screencasts. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Roadmap is of course worth mentioning. | 09:05 |
| popey | the key thing at the moment from my point of view is 1) get the process nailed down, 2) get lots of specs written, 3) churn out lots of screencasts | 09:05 |
| popey | now when I say "churn" it's of course important we keep the quality high when making these | 09:06 |
| popey | I dont want us to turn into youtoob with hundreds of beryl screencasts and none on the real basics.. | 09:06 |
| popey | So that's "current status".. | 09:06 |
| popey | any comments.. | 09:06 |
| benanzo | what's the process like for getting the domain screencasts.ubuntu.com? | 09:07 |
| tonytiger | Only to say good work so far. | 09:07 |
| popey | ta tonytiger | 09:08 |
| popey | benanzo: actually I don't know, mdke is dealing with that | 09:08 |
| popey | we will likely just get it as an alias and point it to the current site | 09:08 |
| benanzo | do they want to see some content first? | 09:08 |
| popey | we have some content:- http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/ | 09:08 |
| popey | we could always do with more of course :) | 09:08 |
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| tonytiger | :) | 09:09 |
| benanzo | right. | 09:09 |
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| popey | but like I say, I'd like us to have that process nailed so people can actually say "yeah, I can do that" | 09:09 |
| popey | at the moment I am getting comments like "process to complex" "cant be bothered with qemu" etc | 09:09 |
| popey | or "xvidcap too slow" | 09:09 |
| popey | but more on the tools/process in a bit :) | 09:09 |
| tonytiger | Is all the necessary stuff packaged in Feisty? | 09:09 |
| tonytiger | Oh yeah. | 09:10 |
| === tonytiger shuts up | ||
| Coli1 | i have a 'xvidcap too slow' problem | 09:10 |
| popey | will look at that in a sec Coli1, thanks. | 09:10 |
| benanzo | I have the bug in X wont let my macbook playback hi-res vids | 09:10 |
| popey | yeah, that seems common :( | 09:10 |
| popey | intel chipsets seem to get that a lot | 09:11 |
| popey | I am guessing the macbook isnt intel graphics? | 09:11 |
| benanzo | it is intel | 09:11 |
| popey | ah, ok, well thats good in a way | 09:11 |
| popey | its a known problem as opposed to an unknown problem | 09:11 |
| popey | </donald_rumsfeld> | 09:11 |
| benanzo | I sorted it by just playing back on a dif machine..we discussed it on the mailing list | 09:11 |
| willvdl | still a problem :) | 09:11 |
| popey | of course, and still a valid concern | 09:12 |
| === Coli1 was thinking about donald too. :-) | ||
| popey | :) | 09:12 |
| popey | ok, so back to the first item | 09:12 |
| popey | my basic question is, do you think the roadmap looks sane? | 09:12 |
| Coli1 | yes. i do. | 09:12 |
| popey | if you have anything you think should be on the roadmap, shout | 09:12 |
| tonytiger | Yes. | 09:12 |
| tonytiger | Is the roadmap chronological? | 09:12 |
| === Seeker` [n=cjo20@84-12-195-25.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| popey | roughly | 09:12 |
| benanzo | looks good. | 09:12 |
| tonytiger | Would be nice for the dubs to be sooner, IMHO | 09:13 |
| popey | some parts may be paralleli(s|z)ed | 09:13 |
| popey | well the dubbing cant happen until they're made can it? | 09:13 |
| popey | oh, before the magazines.. I see | 09:13 |
| popey | and dvd | 09:13 |
| tonytiger | yeah | 09:13 |
| popey | yeah, you're right, I see | 09:13 |
| === tonytiger nods | ||
| tonytiger | \o/ | 09:13 |
| davmor2 | If you are doing translation work would it be possible to just do the video section and not the audio | 09:13 |
| popey | ok, changed that | 09:14 |
| popey | well, tha audio gives the translator a clue what you were on about when you made it | 09:14 |
| davmor2 | true | 09:14 |
| popey | I am only guessing, but I suspect that might be useful for a translator? | 09:14 |
| tonytiger | I'd have thought so.; | 09:14 |
| popey | I only speak English so am unaware of those issues | 09:14 |
| willvdl | what about the front/back slides? would need translating too? | 09:14 |
| benanzo | perhaps a spot for video with no audio and just some text transcripts for another to translate | 09:14 |
| popey | yes, willvdl | 09:14 |
| popey | so I suspect it would make sense for us to make the videos availabale with no slides front/back | 09:15 |
| tonytiger | Makes sense. | 09:15 |
| popey | so they can be localised and added in later along with the audio, good point | 09:15 |
| tonytiger | Just the video and then versions in each language. | 09:15 |
| willvdl | or at least a logical "black space" divide so taht an editor can cut easily | 09:15 |
| popey | I tend to keep copies of the "masters" without the audio and front/back on anyway, so thats not a problem | 09:15 |
| tonytiger | Would be reasonable to expect the creator of the video to produce one in their own language though, to make it clear what they were thinking when they created it. | 09:16 |
| davmor2 | I think it adds to the to the professional image if there are fewer voices | 09:16 |
| popey | there would be only one voice | 09:16 |
| popey | when I say dub, I mean replace | 09:16 |
| tonytiger | Perhaps we need to employ Tom Baker to voice them? ;) | 09:16 |
| popey | should I make that more clear? | 09:16 |
| tonytiger | Perhaps "redub in other languages" | 09:16 |
| popey | so when listening to the french version you would hear only french, not a mix of english and french | 09:16 |
| Coli1 | yes i did not know they would be dubbed with nicer voice | 09:17 |
| popey | haha | 09:17 |
| benanzo | I understand. The original creator can make the screencast in full, then offer transcripts and just the video for someone else to translate. | 09:17 |
| popey | yes, that makes sense | 09:17 |
| davmor2 | no I mean that if there are a couple of people doing the speech for each translation that it adds to the uniformity | 09:17 |
| === Coli1 cancels his voice coaching lessons. | ||
| === tonytiger nods | ||
| popey | quite a bit of work to create a transcript | 09:17 |
| popey | ahh davmor2 get you now | 09:18 |
| tonytiger | And then translating it. | 09:18 |
| benanzo | that's true, maybe just some bullet points | 09:18 |
| tonytiger | I suspect that what davmor2 suggests is how it would work out anyway. | 09:18 |
| willvdl | it really shouldn't be that hard for an experienced user to translate but it would help for consistency | 09:18 |
| tonytiger | i.e. a french speaker interested in contributing comes along and offers to dub a load of screencasts. | 09:18 |
| popey | ok, this kinda covers the "internationalisation" section well | 09:19 |
| davmor2 | that way you can get loads of video of the same standard then a couple of good voice overs for each video | 09:19 |
| popey | in fact if someone *just* recorded the audio, that would be fine | 09:19 |
| popey | they could send a WAV of the right duration to us for dubbing | 09:19 |
| benanzo | realistically, anyone can pull down a complete video, strip the audio and the slides and remaster it in a different language. Are we just looking for a better way to streamline the translation process | 09:19 |
| popey | rather than them have to do the dubbing themselves | 09:19 |
| tonytiger | popey: Good idea. | 09:19 |
| popey | kinda | 09:19 |
| popey | anyone can benanzo yes, but should we make them do all that | 09:20 |
| popey | all we "need" them to do is translate and record their voice | 09:20 |
| popey | if we dub then it saves a lot of effort on their part | 09:20 |
| tonytiger | It would be good if someone could just record themselves using Audacity and submit it to someone to do the hard work. | 09:20 |
| Coli1 | i agree | 09:20 |
| popey | they dont need to download the full size mpeg, just the ogg - or even watch the flash video | 09:20 |
| popey | yes tonytiger | 09:20 |
| popey | ok, we have deviated slightly :)_ | 09:21 |
| popey | anything else on the roadmap before we move on? | 09:21 |
| tonytiger | No | 09:22 |
| popey | ok, next item is: * Tools and methods | 09:22 |
| popey | * Discuss the method used for screencasting | 09:22 |
| popey | Currently I use QEMU to host a virtual machine on my desktop. I record that window using xvidcap to record to an AVI file at 1024x768. | 09:22 |
| popey | I then use various tools to convert to other formats and generally get them ready for distribution. | 09:22 |
| popey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts shows how I record screencasts. This page needs some love, and could probably benefit from being broken up into easy steps rather than being one monolithic page. | 09:23 |
| popey | It is also possible to run the demo on another machine and connect via VNC, then record the VNC client window using xvidcap (or whatever). | 09:23 |
| popey | Discuss :) | 09:23 |
| willvdl | the 1024x768 thing... | 09:23 |
| willvdl | I find it still hard to read, perhaps because of the encoding | 09:23 |
| popey | on which video? flash/ogg or avi? | 09:24 |
| willvdl | both | 09:24 |
| willvdl | well, flash is quite lossy | 09:24 |
| popey | flash I expect, because it gets downsized as well as compressed | 09:24 |
| popey | ogg/avi shouldn't be too bad | 09:24 |
| tonytiger | I find the ogg fine. | 09:24 |
| willvdl | the other thing is that it makes the vids quite large... | 09:25 |
| benanzo | ogg/avi is fine. I don't think we can expect too much from flv anyway | 09:25 |
| popey | it does make them large | 09:25 |
| popey | indeed, flv is a "nice to have" for the youtubers | 09:25 |
| benanzo | right | 09:25 |
| willvdl | so for us Africans, it is very inaccessible | 09:25 |
| popey | the large videos are a worry | 09:25 |
| popey | there is work we can do there though | 09:26 |
| popey | we can either downsize the video (makes it less readable) | 09:26 |
| popey | or we can drop the bitrate (I think? tonytiger ?) | 09:26 |
| tonytiger | Yeah. | 09:26 |
| popey | I have used the default settings when using ffmpeg2theora | 09:26 |
| tonytiger | Again you sacrifice clarity in doing so. | 09:26 |
| willvdl | bitrate I reckon. there is not that much "action" | 09:26 |
| popey | I suspect dropping the bitrate for the audio and video would help quite a bit | 09:26 |
| Shish | I would think 800x600 is plenty; and an upsized small video is easier to read than a downsized large one~ | 09:26 |
| tonytiger | Audio can be pushed very low. | 09:27 |
| popey | I need to test that out | 09:27 |
| popey | thats a good point Shish | 09:27 |
| Coli1 | i think there should still be a high quality version though, for us bandwidth fat cats. | 09:27 |
| Shish | Could audio be speex? | 09:27 |
| popey | some dialogs dont fit in 800x600 though, its only a few though | 09:27 |
| popey | Shish: I guess we are limited by the container formats we use, ogg, avi, flv | 09:27 |
| tonytiger | Shish: The codec is sort of irrelevant TBH | 09:27 |
| willvdl | I would like to have 800x600 as a preference. | 09:28 |
| popey | ah, so we could use vorbis but very low bitrate | 09:28 |
| tonytiger | That's not to say speex couldn't be one of them, I AFAIK you can't use it in video containers (?) | 09:28 |
| Coli1 | i vote for 800x600 that is what i did my attempts in. | 09:28 |
| benanzo | I've never tried | 09:28 |
| tonytiger | popey: Yes, 56kps is probably the lowest reasonable. | 09:28 |
| Shish | eh? It's an audio codec, you can put it in whatever container you want... | 09:28 |
| popey | ok, I'm getting an 800x600 vibe here :) | 09:28 |
| popey | Shish: only if the player plays it | 09:28 |
| popey | I have seen some players not like codec A in container B | 09:29 |
| tonytiger | popey: Personally I prefer 1024x768, but I accept I have a lot more bandwidth than some places. | 09:29 |
| Shish | yeah, that's what I was getting at with my first point -- does ubuntu support it out of the box? | 09:29 |
| popey | we need these things to play in totem to be first target | 09:29 |
| willvdl | also default preference for containers/codecs/formats that come "out-the-box" | 09:29 |
| popey | yeah, which is why ogg/theora/vorbis are #1 choice for us | 09:29 |
| tonytiger | I think vorbis/theora covers the Linux market. | 09:29 |
| willvdl | viewer should not *have* to download codecs if they can't | 09:29 |
| popey | agreed willvdl | 09:29 |
| Shish | speex is from the ogg group, same as vorbis | 09:29 |
| popey | Windows/Mac is a whole other story | 09:29 |
| willvdl | urk, true | 09:30 |
| popey | Shish: does ffmpeg "do" speex? | 09:30 |
| popey | I can do some tests with the mpeg master videos I have, and post some comparative sizes | 09:30 |
| tonytiger | popey: Doesn't seem to. | 09:30 |
| popey | I can also do some tests with 800x600 compared with 1024x768 | 09:30 |
| popey | Shish: what programs can create speex? | 09:31 |
| Shish | ummm, speexenc? I haven't actually done much with it <_<; | 09:31 |
| davmor2 | why not do 2 1024x768 for dvd/cd and 800x600 for tinternet | 09:31 |
| popey | davmor2: then we would have to re-record everything | 09:31 |
| popey | if we have to have two versions of every video | 09:31 |
| davmor2 | true | 09:32 |
| popey | better to have one size fits all (which it wont) | 09:32 |
| willvdl | there can be an exception for dialogues that don't fit 800x600 | 09:32 |
| popey | we cant please everyone, but to impose a silly-large resolution on people with bandwidth-impaired connections seems wrong to me | 09:32 |
| willvdl | (and maybe it will make developers rethink their dialogs) | 09:32 |
| popey | we need to listen to people on low speed connections, because they may well be the kinds of people who cant afford training | 09:32 |
| willvdl | ++ | 09:32 |
| popey | I will run a machine at 800x600 for a while and see how much doesnt fit | 09:33 |
| popey | ok, so, in conclusion we need to a) update the process documents, b) look to use more efficient encoding, c) look to use lower resolution for the videos? | 09:33 |
| popey | 800x600 also has te benefit that the person recording will have less load on their system | 09:34 |
| benanzo | I've recorded a couple screencasts by using a separate user account instead of qemu. It really only works as long as you're demonstrating superficial things, not like installing packages or other invasive stuff. | 09:34 |
| davmor2 | good plan but why not try doing the same set of vids in both sizes to pick the best for quality then vote on it for the next meeting? | 09:34 |
| popey | benanzo: that's a good method, I have tried that too | 09:35 |
| popey | well, we already know how good 1024x768 looks | 09:35 |
| popey | I just need to make some 800x600 to compare | 09:35 |
| popey | plus there is the time factor | 09:35 |
| willvdl | davmor2, ++ | 09:35 |
| popey | I can create one screencast in both resolutions | 09:35 |
| popey | a nice simple 2 minute one, would that be okay? | 09:36 |
| tonytiger | Sounds good. | 09:36 |
| benanzo | pending the results, I vote for 800x600 because I have bugs | 09:36 |
| popey | then encode in diffierent formats and so on | 09:36 |
| popey | hehe, understandable benanzo | 09:36 |
| popey | you are not the only one | 09:36 |
| popey | that bug has sent a few people nuts! | 09:36 |
| popey | ok, shall we move on? | 09:36 |
| benanzo | no kidding | 09:36 |
| benanzo | righto | 09:36 |
| popey | some of this we have covered | 09:37 |
| popey | I will paste in anyway so we all are on the same page:- | 09:37 |
| popey | * How can we streamline the processes and make it easier for people to get involved in our team? | 09:37 |
| davmor2 | sound good then just throw up a poll on the site, which can log the votes | 09:37 |
| popey | I appreciate some people find xvidcap difficult / slow to use. I have been contacted by the author of xvidcap (Karl Beckers), I'm sure he would love to have some input from us as to how the product can be improved. I know other tools are available such as Istanbul and Recordmydesktop, and if others can use them, and achieve similar results as I do with xvidcap then go for it! | 09:37 |
| popey | ok davmor2 | 09:37 |
| popey | * Should we care what tools people use | 09:37 |
| === Shish humms, notes that ffmpeg claims to be able to capture from x11 | ||
| popey | No, so long as the content created meets our criteria for quality and the videos can easily be converted to other formats for distribution, I don't care what tools are used to create the screencasts. | 09:38 |
| benanzo | I've never had good luck with istanbul | 09:38 |
| willvdl | popey, the technical side is one. The proposal/review is another | 09:38 |
| popey | Shish: it can, yes | 09:38 |
| popey | Shish: http://popey.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VideoDemos/FfmpegOnly | 09:38 |
| popey | benanzo: me neither | 09:38 |
| Coli1 | popey when you say ' I don't care what tools are used to create the screencasts.' does that include Windows??? | 09:38 |
| popey | no | 09:39 |
| popey | :) | 09:39 |
| popey | well | 09:39 |
| Coli1 | doh :-) | 09:39 |
| popey | thats a tricky one | 09:39 |
| popey | what do we think? | 09:39 |
| popey | personally I would rather use free tools | 09:39 |
| popey | should we forgive those you use tools like camtasia on windows? | 09:39 |
| popey | and let them contribute? | 09:39 |
| Coli1 | i agree, but i have old machines :-( and xvidcap does not work for me. | 09:39 |
| popey | i think maybe I should relax that one, and say, go for it, do whatever works for you, to make demos | 09:40 |
| benanzo | right, I think that's the point, but if non-free tools are used to essentially *promote* a free alternative, I think it's fine. | 09:40 |
| Coli1 | i will try again to get ubuntu dual booting at work on my good pc. | 09:40 |
| Coli1 | and then do screencasts after work. | 09:40 |
| popey | yes benanzo | 09:40 |
| tonytiger | popey: It depends on whether the screencasts project wants to be able to get the videos for their own archiving in a format like MPEG2. | 09:41 |
| popey | yeah, if the only result you can generate is .flv I am not interested :) | 09:41 |
| Coli1 | but it was not working for me and staying at work is hard because people still think i am working and ask me stuff. | 09:41 |
| tonytiger | popey: Quite :) | 09:41 |
| popey | so for example wink is out, as is vnc2swf, because they only generate .flv | 09:42 |
| davmor2 | what license are you publishing them under | 09:42 |
| popey | but if you send me an mpeg2 or avi of 800x600 at high bit rate I should not care how you made it | 09:42 |
| popey | davmor2: http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/license | 09:42 |
| Shish | is it just me, or is xvidcap not available as an ubuntu package? | 09:42 |
| popey | Shish: correct | 09:42 |
| popey | yet | 09:42 |
| popey | there is a deb for it | 09:42 |
| popey | http://sourceforge.net/projects/xvidcap/ | 09:43 |
| popey | ok, I will clarify that stipulation | 09:43 |
| popey | is everyone happy with that? "we dont care how you make it, so long as its in a usable format and is of the quality we require"? | 09:43 |
| Shish | seems sensible | 09:44 |
| tonytiger | Yes. | 09:44 |
| Coli1 | i agree. (but will try 'free tools and OS') | 09:44 |
| popey | ok, lets crack on.. | 09:44 |
| popey | good man Coli1 | 09:44 |
| benanzo | right. | 09:44 |
| popey | if its too much pain, dont worry | 09:44 |
| popey | * Keeping current | 09:44 |
| popey | * Should we mandate all new screencasts should be done on Feisty, is there a place for Edgy/Dapper? | 09:44 |
| tonytiger | There's a place for Dapper. | 09:44 |
| popey | There probably is a place for Dapper and Edgy, especially as some will not upgrade yet to Feisty, especially corporate desktop users (although questionable whether they would gain as much from a screencast as a fresh new user). I would like to see as many Feisty screencasts as is technically possible. | 09:44 |
| Coli1 | i support 6.06 LTS :-) | 09:44 |
| popey | Especially given there are such fundamental changes in feisty as the Gnome Control Center, the automatic codec grabber thing and binary packages in general. | 09:44 |
| popey | (note: I don't want to get into a philosophical discussion about the relative merits of binary packages in ubuntu and the free-ness of it, that's not our concern as the screencast team really) | 09:45 |
| tonytiger | I think any current LTS release and whatever is the current release are the obvious choices. | 09:45 |
| Coli1 | the Ubuntu Cd's are 6.06 so that is what people are picking up | 09:45 |
| davmor2 | I think current and lts and only reproduce any intrim vids where things change massively | 09:45 |
| popey | true Coli1 | 09:45 |
| Shish | "Get the latest version" is much simpler than "video X applies to ubuntu Y, video Z applies to ubuntu N, video G applies to ubuntu J"... | 09:45 |
| popey | heh | 09:45 |
| popey | we can tag videos on the site | 09:46 |
| Seeker` | Perhaps there is a place for Dapper, as it is LTS, but if people are using edgy then perhaps they arent as interested in LTS, so edgy may be a bit of a wasted effort | 09:46 |
| popey | to show what versions they apply to | 09:46 |
| popey | ok, so I am hearing we do need to think about dapper, and current release is good too | 09:46 |
| tonytiger | yup | 09:46 |
| popey | maybe for current release we stick to stuff we know isnt massively changing? | 09:46 |
| popey | e.g. approprirate in edgy to demo how to use evolution for example | 09:46 |
| Coli1 | i think 'generic' application stuff should be in LTS and then highlights or specials on the latest release. | 09:47 |
| popey | not appropriate might be codec downloading, because we know that is changing massively? | 09:47 |
| tonytiger | For stuff you produce in the next two months, you mean popey ? | 09:47 |
| Shish | depending on how close the next release is and how long we plan to work on screencasts before a big announcement, maybe LTS and current+1 would be more appropriate? | 09:47 |
| davmor2 | lts is important in schools. etc for stability | 09:47 |
| popey | current+1 can be somewhat hairy! | 09:47 |
| popey | and the UI can change pretty soon before a release | 09:48 |
| popey | I agree with Dapper and Current | 09:48 |
| tonytiger | davmor2: workplaces in general, I think | 09:48 |
| popey | but if someone wants to make a current+1 screencast I am not going to stop them | 09:48 |
| Shish | I mean if it's in feature freeze, ie, fairly stable | 09:48 |
| popey | sure Shish | 09:48 |
| popey | thats the plan :) | 09:48 |
| davmor2 | well that's what the etc was for :) | 09:48 |
| tonytiger | Shish: The artwork for Edgy changed two days before release. :) | 09:49 |
| benanzo | I've been doing screencasts on topics not incredibly cutting edge, so really it's fine do use any recent version since it will apply across current or near-future versions | 09:49 |
| popey | yeah, there are loads of topics which are nice and generic | 09:49 |
| popey | any other comments about releases? | 09:50 |
| davmor2 | no covers it I think | 09:50 |
| popey | Ok, so we should target dapper and current, but current+1 is acceptable if we are close to a release? | 09:50 |
| tonytiger | s/dapper/lts/ | 09:51 |
| popey | yes | 09:51 |
| popey | ok, next item:- | 09:51 |
| popey | * How do we best keep in contact with the developers to find out what is new within apps, and what new apps are being delivered, or in the pipeline? | 09:51 |
| popey | This I do not know. :) | 09:52 |
| tonytiger | :) | 09:52 |
| benanzo | so at what point are we re-recording old screencasts? when the methods have changed or when a new version arrives (even though the method is the same) | 09:52 |
| popey | benanzo: thats another item we will come to in a mo | 09:52 |
| Shish | when following the instructions stops working, I'd say | 09:52 |
| tonytiger | "when there's a significant and noticable difference" IMHO | 09:53 |
| benanzo | k | 09:53 |
| popey | actually | 09:53 |
| popey | yes talk about this now | 09:53 |
| popey | we will come back to talking to the developers | 09:53 |
| popey | I agree, if something is wrong/ stops working / is no longer appropriate it may need re-recording | 09:53 |
| benanzo | ok, so the dapper LTS would be fine to stay posted even after the next LTS arrives as long as the methods haven't changed? or are we planning to do a new vid just for that version? | 09:54 |
| tonytiger | Does the old version then get dropped from teh site? | 09:54 |
| popey | benanzo: we could keep both | 09:54 |
| Shish | I would think "marked as 'only applies to version X'" rather than dropped | 09:54 |
| popey | agreed | 09:55 |
| benanzo | right. | 09:55 |
| tonytiger | Shish: good idea | 09:55 |
| popey | we can tag on the site, so can use version number as a tag to show that | 09:55 |
| popey | we can also put in the notes "for release x+1, see this screencast also:-" | 09:55 |
| popey | so in general we dont delete stuff | 09:56 |
| popey | if we were pressing a cd/dvd we might consider leaving out older stuff for space reasons | 09:56 |
| popey | make sense? | 09:56 |
| benanzo | y | 09:56 |
| === linuxphotogeek [n=will@fw-dcise.ascensionhealth.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| tonytiger | yes | 09:56 |
| popey | ok, moving on, | 09:56 |
| popey | * How do we best keep in contact with the developers to find out what is new within apps, and what new apps are being delivered, or in the pipeline? | 09:57 |
| popey | I am thinking, when reading developers blogs, we are mindful of the screencast project | 09:57 |
| Coli1 | popey some sort of screencasts newsletter??? | 09:57 |
| popey | so that as people blog about new stuff, we add it to the requests page | 09:57 |
| popey | I am more thinking, "how do we find out whats coming up, so that we can be ready to screencast it" | 09:57 |
| tonytiger | I think that will follow pretty naturally with even a handful of interested people in the project. | 09:57 |
| Coli1 | sent to developers so they know what we are demoing or want to demo | 09:58 |
| Shish | yeah, I can't think of a clean way of doing it automatically -- just paying attention to developers and having a public to-do list would be ok | 09:58 |
| popey | Coli1: not sure theyd be interested :) | 09:58 |
| popey | yes Shish | 09:58 |
| === stuphi [n=philip@82-68-169-190.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| benanzo | I think the majority of effort on this should go toward informing them that this project exists. I think they would find it in their own interest to keep us informed | 09:59 |
| popey | Ok, so nothing we could specifically do, but keep eyes open | 09:59 |
| davmor2 | could you not get the devs putting new stuff in to drop it on a wiki or is there not a change log | 09:59 |
| linuxphotogeek | There is a "What's New in Fiesty" page on the wiki. Rich with ideas | 09:59 |
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| popey | you got a url linuxphotogeek ? | 10:00 |
| linuxphotogeek | So there will be a Whats new in Fiesty+1 page. | 10:00 |
| === linuxphotogeek looking | ||
| benanzo | brb | 10:00 |
| willvdl | well, apart from decyphering LP specs :) | 10:00 |
| popey | heh | 10:00 |
| popey | ok, well I dont see this as a high priority problem | 10:01 |
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| popey | moving on... | 10:01 |
| willvdl | the doc team is usually in line in general | 10:01 |
| popey | heh | 10:02 |
| popey | matt east said they have the same issues in the doc team :) | 10:02 |
| willvdl | following the release notes should suffice | 10:02 |
| popey | ok, next item - I plan to rattle through these.. keep up at the back :) | 10:02 |
| popey | * Communication | 10:02 |
| popey | * Should we have a separate mailing list, focus discussion of screencasts | 10:02 |
| popey | "yes" | 10:02 |
| popey | * Separate IRC channel | 10:03 |
| popey | "yes" | 10:03 |
| willvdl | "no" better to not dilute the community IMHO | 10:03 |
| popey | currently we are using ubuntu-doc and #ubuntu-doc | 10:03 |
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| linuxphotogeek | Found them = http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd3 and http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd2 | 10:03 |
| popey | well, I would say we keep in contact with the -doc team | 10:03 |
| popey | thanks linuxphotogeek | 10:03 |
| willvdl | it's easier if you use the same channel. if the bandwidth gets big enough to warrant it then create a new channel/list | 10:04 |
| popey | fair point | 10:04 |
| willvdl | we face a similar issue in edubuntu | 10:04 |
| davmor2 | I think it would be good to have separate irc but combined mail that way we can keep our eye on what is going on in general | 10:05 |
| popey | ok, lets stay where we are, but will look at this in the future at an unspecified date? | 10:05 |
| willvdl | + | 10:05 |
| willvdl | the irc channel does not have that much noise. better to leverage from the doc-team | 10:06 |
| popey | indeed | 10:06 |
| Shish | I'd say stay until screencasting talk starts using more bandwidth than other doc talk | 10:06 |
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| popey | we can learn good stuff from them | 10:06 |
| popey | yes, Shish agreed | 10:06 |
| willvdl | and pull in new contributers | 10:06 |
| popey | ah, also good point | 10:06 |
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| linuxphotogeek | some of them are us! | 10:06 |
| popey | ok, last point before any other business.. | 10:06 |
| popey | * Accessibility | 10:06 |
| popey | * Should we add subtitles? | 10:06 |
| tonytiger | Tricky. | 10:07 |
| Coli1 | how easy is that? | 10:07 |
| popey | or, transcripts (which we already suggested for translation purposes) | 10:07 |
| willvdl | ooh. affects localisation again | 10:07 |
| popey | I dont know | 10:07 |
| popey | but I envisage this will be somewhat time consuming | 10:07 |
| willvdl | transcripts makes more sense I guess | 10:07 |
| tonytiger | Tricky, tricky, tricky. | 10:07 |
| frederific | hmm, could we combine the 2? | 10:07 |
| willvdl | two birds, one stone | 10:07 |
| frederific | Have a number pop-up in the bottom right every so often, which matches up to a number on a transcript? | 10:07 |
| tonytiger | You're almost certainly looking at more post-processing with Kino or Cinelerra for on-screen subtitles. | 10:07 |
| === popey doesnt know | ||
| Shish | if using ogg, we could have many subtitles in one file, and let the user choose which (if any) to view | 10:07 |
| frederific | (my way would also be easier to translate I think) | 10:08 |
| tonytiger | Shish: Oh, true. | 10:08 |
| tonytiger | Shish: How do you generate them though? | 10:08 |
| popey | Shish: that would mean re-making the ogg every time a new set of subtitles are made? | 10:08 |
| linuxphotogeek | Farm this out - opportunity to pull in volunteers that can't screencast | 10:08 |
| Shish | remuxing yes, but not reencoding | 10:08 |
| popey | which also means re-uploading | 10:08 |
| Shish | yeah :-/ | 10:09 |
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| tonytiger | That's tough with archive.org | 10:09 |
| frederific | but its not just off is it? People also watch the google video, mpeg, etc; what about them? | 10:09 |
| popey | shall we look at transcripts first, subtitles possibly later? | 10:09 |
| popey | tonytiger: we dont use archive.org any more | 10:09 |
| popey | all hosted by us on doc.ubuntu.com | 10:09 |
| Coli1 | everything can't be done straight away | 10:09 |
| frederific | *ogg btw | 10:09 |
| popey | it would be very time consuming | 10:09 |
| popey | text is easier for us to update | 10:09 |
| popey | on the site that is | 10:10 |
| Shish | we *could* store video, audio, and subtitle streams seperately, then mux them on the fly when the user downloads, if anyone feels up to programming that :P | 10:10 |
| popey | hahaha | 10:10 |
| === popey pegs that as "nice to have" | ||
| popey | transcript then? | 10:10 |
| popey | for now? | 10:10 |
| Shish | yeah | 10:11 |
| frederific | yeah, transcripts are good | 10:11 |
| popey | ok, finally | 10:11 |
| popey | any other business? | 10:11 |
| benanzo | are we looking a word-for-word transcripts or notes | 10:11 |
| linuxphotogeek | Has any one done a screencasting screencast? | 10:12 |
| Coli1 | i think it should be word for word so help with the translating. | 10:12 |
| frederific | linuxphotogeek: I think Ive seen one | 10:12 |
| tonytiger | It's on the list, IIRC :) | 10:12 |
| Shish | back to technical bits, I've been trying out xvidcap during this conversation -- a 640x480 capture is maxing out my 2GHz box, and only capturing 75% of frames at that... | 10:12 |
| benanzo | are you running qemy | 10:12 |
| benanzo | qemu | 10:12 |
| tonytiger | linuxphotogeek: Not quite a screencast on screencasting, but popey did a talk on it: http://hantslug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TechTalks/5thAugust2006 | 10:12 |
| Shish | nope, just a regular desktop | 10:13 |
| Coli1 | linuxphotogeek i did a screencasting screencast but it used a 'bad' OS :-) | 10:13 |
| benanzo | yikes | 10:13 |
| Shish | I suspect I could fiddle with settings to get more out of it (ie, not encode to mpeg4 in realtime) | 10:13 |
| tonytiger | That's advisable. | 10:14 |
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| popey | I encode to mpeg2 / avi | 10:16 |
| popey | no audio | 10:16 |
| popey | however this is a dual-core 2.2GHz machine | 10:16 |
| davmor2 | have you discussed what content to include? | 10:16 |
| popey | I have planned on doing a screencasting screencast | 10:16 |
| jwsurrey | Hi guys, i've joined an hour late, will this be archived somewhere i can find later? Popey, can you remind me that web address good for irc, i need to return to wifey and lurk using [cough] a non-ubuntu mechanism (they exist!). Ta! PS: solns for a 500MHz box??? | 10:17 |
| popey | davmor2: no because thats on the wiki already, what did you want to say/ask/suggest? | 10:17 |
| popey | hi jwsurrey yes, I will archive and summarise too | 10:17 |
| willvdl | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ ? | 10:18 |
| benanzo | i miraculously am able to play back 1280x800 video using mplayer and -vo x11 instead of xv. weird. | 10:18 |
| popey | ok, so anything that needs sorting in the meeting that we can't talk about in -doc? | 10:19 |
| benanzo | anyway, I'm on a 2.2ghz core duo and got 6 frames/sec | 10:19 |
| Shish | Yeah, I've found xv is faster for small video, but really choppy for anything more than 640x480 :| | 10:19 |
| popey | I'd like to wrap this up soon | 10:19 |
| popey | benanzo: I get ~20fps on this | 10:19 |
| tonytiger | Sounds like some time to talk about technical issues might be appreciated. | 10:19 |
| frederific | we've got another 40mins booked, may as well us it | 10:19 |
| popey | yes tonytiger | 10:19 |
| davmor2 | when the next meeting going to be? | 10:19 |
| popey | hehe okay | 10:19 |
| benanzo | hmmm | 10:19 |
| popey | that s next on the agenda davmor2 :) | 10:20 |
| popey | is 2 weeks too soon? should we meet in 4 weeks? | 10:20 |
| popey | I am open to suggestion | 10:20 |
| tonytiger | What will have changed in 2 weeks? | 10:20 |
| popey | ok, I need some actions then :) | 10:21 |
| davmor2 | no 2 weeks sort out the screen size issue it's a biggy to get sort asap | 10:21 |
| willvdl | could have tested different resolutions... | 10:21 |
| popey | yes | 10:21 |
| popey | and compression rates | 10:21 |
| Shish | do we have a screencast to-do list anywhere? | 10:21 |
| davmor2 | yes the wiki | 10:21 |
| popey | Shish: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Requests | 10:21 |
| Shish | thanks | 10:21 |
| popey | I dont understand why xvidcap is so fast for me, and slow for others | 10:23 |
| popey | I dont know what I am doing differently | 10:23 |
| tonytiger | Disk speed? | 10:23 |
| benanzo | what are your prefs at | 10:23 |
| davmor2 | what's your setup | 10:23 |
| davmor2 | memory | 10:23 |
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| popey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts see that page | 10:23 |
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| davmor2 | processor speed | 10:23 |
| popey | look for "Set the preferences in xvidcap" | 10:23 |
| popey | 2GB ram, core2duo 2.66GHz | 10:24 |
| Coli1 | how did you install ubuntu? do you do something funny? write your own kernel in binary? :-) | 10:24 |
| popey | heh | 10:24 |
| davmor2 | that could do it | 10:24 |
| popey | it's an up to date feisty install which was previously edgy - upgraded | 10:24 |
| davmor2 | 2 gig of memory | 10:24 |
| popey | note I record to mpeg2 video | 10:24 |
| popey | well, actually there is less available because I give 512MB to the virtual machine | 10:25 |
| davmor2 | yes but if you 256 or 512 and are giving half to the virtual machine then that explains a lot | 10:27 |
| popey | guys, being really selfish here, but I would like to wrap up the meeting because I appear to have caught a bug from my daughter, not to put to finer point on it, I am not well :( | 10:27 |
| willvdl | sweet | 10:28 |
| davmor2 | no excuse :-P | 10:28 |
| benanzo | .. | 10:28 |
| davmor2 | tatz | 10:28 |
| popey | ok, well thank you all for coming \o/ | 10:28 |
| davmor2 | sed /z/a | 10:28 |
| tonytiger | Good meeting popey | 10:28 |
| benanzo | good meeting | 10:28 |
| tonytiger | Well run. | 10:28 |
| davmor2 | not bad | 10:28 |
| Coli1 | yes, thanks for all your hard work so far | 10:28 |
| popey | who is going to put the logs up? me? | 10:28 |
| popey | oh, they're already there :)_ | 10:29 |
| popey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Screencast2007-02-12 | 10:29 |
| davmor2 | vote pope \o/ | 10:29 |
| popey | ok, sorry to duck out, i *need* to go lie down | 10:29 |
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| willvdl | ciao | 10:30 |
| popey | thanks again, will write up everything on the wiki and mail -doc | 10:30 |
| popey | bye | 10:30 |
| Coli1 | cheero | 10:30 |
| benanzo | bye | 10:30 |
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| tsmithe | @schedule | 11:02 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 12:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu | 11:02 |
| tsmithe | ooooh | 11:02 |
| === tsmithe is excited about tomorrow's CC meeting | ||
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00 UTC: IRC Operators | ||
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