[12:45] <dfarning> a little cleaner partial results page is up
[12:52] <asac> n8
[01:06] <gnomefreak> only here for a moment to pick up some stuff. im a daddy :)
[01:07] <AlexLatchford> Night people
[01:07] <AlexLatchford> PS. Congrats John
[01:07] <AlexLatchford> :)
[01:07] <gnomefreak> ty
[01:07] <gnomefreak> night
[01:07] <gnomefreak> ill be gone for a day or so i think :) but ill leave irc up
[01:08] <asac> gnomefreak: take care ;)
[01:09] <asac> gnomefreak: you became daddy recently?
[01:09] <gnomefreak> today
[01:09] <gnomefreak> ;)
[01:09] <asac> gnomefreak: you are so crazy ... go away :)
[01:09] <gnomefreak> :)
[01:10] <asac> congrats too of course ... and only the best for your new family
[02:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49478 in mozilla-thunderbird "thunderbird warning on installation (breezy)" [Low,Confirmed] 
[02:16] <dfarning> jhnjwng, nice
[02:22] <jhnjwng> david, do we need to change the bug status?
[02:22] <dfarning> jhnjwng, I'll take a look
[02:23] <jhnjwng> thanks
[02:28] <dfarning> we are no longer going to be using debian us upstream so that fixes from debian will not flow down to us.  I think that we need to see if it fixed in mozilla
[02:28] <dfarning> asac would know the real answer to that question
[02:29] <jhnjwng> I will follow up with asac.
[02:29] <dfarning> try asking him on the mailing list I am insrested in learning how we are going to handle this
[02:30] <jhnjwng> will do.
[02:30] <dfarning> jhnjwng, thanks
[02:47] <dfarning> jhnjwng, if you are look for some starter bug there is a list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/Bughelper/Results
[03:24] <dfarning> hey Admiral_Chicago
[04:10] <Admiral_Chicago> hey there dfarning
[04:10] <dfarning> how did the comp go
[04:11] <Admiral_Chicago> it was busy and we didn't go as in depth as we would like but it was a good experience
[04:12] <dfarning> are you on the agenda for tomarrow morning
[04:12] <Admiral_Chicago> yup, as of 3 minutes ago
[04:12] <Admiral_Chicago> i kept forgetting to save changes
[04:13] <dfarning> I was thinking you were chickening out;)
[04:13] <Admiral_Chicago> nah, i'll be there
[04:13] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm waiting to try out the new LP page
[04:14] <dfarning> did you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/Bughelper/Results?highlight=%28CategoryMozillaTeam%29 pretty cool
[04:15] <Admiral_Chicago> no, i saw it in the channel but i had to do other things
[04:18] <Admiral_Chicago> nice link
[04:19] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm going to close old bugs when I get back, expect emails from me
[04:20] <dfarning> I'll brace myself against the wave of bug spam
[04:20] <dfarning> good night
[04:52] <Admiral_Chicago> okay LP is being odd. i'll do bugs tomorrow
[06:12] <Admiral_Chicago> dfarning: mozilla team bugs ML works now
[06:15] <Admiral_Chicago> it seems
[10:32] <asac> anyone here :) ?
[11:38] <Admiral_Chicago> i ma asac
[11:39] <asac> hello
[11:40] <Admiral_Chicago> how is it going
[11:49] <asac> fine ... despite that i wiped parts of my home directory a few minutes ago :)
[11:50] <asac> :(
[11:52] <Admiral_Chicago> so good
[11:53] <Admiral_Chicago> orr no
[11:53] <Admiral_Chicago> not good
[12:15] <asac> yeah its a mess
[12:17] <Admiral_Chicago> what happened?
[12:20] <asac> long story ... I setup chroot ... mounted home bind
[12:20] <asac> and then rm -r
[12:20] <asac> :)
[12:20] <Admiral_Chicago> oh yes i read you destroyed your feisty chroot
[12:23] <asac> yes ... though this one was a breezy one
[12:28] <Admiral_Chicago> :( breezy....
[12:28] <Admiral_Chicago> that's when I started using Ubuntu
[01:02] <Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: ping, are you awake?
[01:02] <gnomefreak> im home i got lucky if your not up before i have to leave ill leave my comments with htem
[01:03] <Admiral_Chicago> okay, well leave your comments, I had a question to ask...which I promptly forgot...
[01:04] <gnomefreak> ill be here for a little while so feel free to remember
[01:04] <Admiral_Chicago> oh, is there a mozillateam-bugs on LP gnomefreak ?
[01:04] <gnomefreak> no
[01:04] <gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: i looked to assign bugs to that team but it wont let us yet
[01:04] <gnomefreak> when i get home for good i will work on it
[01:05] <Admiral_Chicago> ah okay, i thought the mozillateam on LP was just being forwarded to mozillateam-bugs
[01:05] <Admiral_Chicago> okay, go do whatever you have to do.
[01:05] <gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: i cant post office isnt open yet
[01:05] <Admiral_Chicago> oh, i see.
[01:06] <Admiral_Chicago> wait you're EST correct?
[01:06] <gnomefreak> when they ope im heading back to hospital
[01:06] <gnomefreak> open
[01:06] <asac> gnomefreak: why are you still here? :)
[01:06] <gnomefreak> yes
[01:06] <Admiral_Chicago> blah, it's way too early, i'm CST...
[01:06] <gnomefreak> asac: i just got home lol
[01:06] <gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: an hour
[01:07] <Admiral_Chicago> oh i also wanted to ask about this guy. Hjih or something like that
[01:07] <Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: yes you're +1 me
[01:07] <gnomefreak> what about him?
[01:07] <Admiral_Chicago> do you know anyone talking to him about membership on the team
[01:08] <gnomefreak> hes been a member
[01:08] <gnomefreak> i thought
[01:08] <gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: hjmf?
[01:08] <Admiral_Chicago> that's the one
[01:09] <gnomefreak> he is a member
[01:09] <Admiral_Chicago> oh i see he has been, okay i wasn't sure
[01:09] <Admiral_Chicago> good, we need more people anyways
[01:12] <gnomefreak> that was easy :)
[01:12] <Admiral_Chicago> ty john
[01:16] <gnomefreak> yw
[01:17] <gnomefreak> btw thats mark
[01:17] <Admiral_Chicago> yes i know. didn't want to flood the channel
[01:38] <gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: you have your speach ready?  speach == lack of a better word
[01:38] <Admiral_Chicago> yes, short intro.
[01:39] <Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: i've got one done.
[01:39] <gnomefreak> just make sure it has you wiki and LP page in it :)
[01:40] <Admiral_Chicago> oh okay let me grab those
[01:52] <gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: ok from me you are set just get others asac AlexLatchford david and any others would be good
[01:53] <Admiral_Chicago> AlexLatchford dfarning and asac, you heard the man
[01:53] <Admiral_Chicago> if you are around, please come to #ubuntu-meeting to cheer me on
[01:53] <gnomefreak> lol
[01:53] <gnomefreak> ok im off :)
[01:53] <Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: thanks a lot
[01:54] <gnomefreak> yw
[01:56] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: when is it?
[01:57] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: now. we are going to get to the new members in a few minutes
[01:57] <Admiral_Chicago> #ubuntu-meeting
[01:59] <asac> we have a meeting?
[01:59] <Admiral_Chicago> CC does.https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[02:01] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: did the round on new members already started (sorry, but I couldn't follow so far ... will do so in a minute)
[02:03] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: not yet.
[02:10] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: starting soon for new members
[02:11] <dfarning> I'm joining now
[02:11] <Admiral_Chicago> :)
[02:15] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: i hope i have any say at all :) ... I have to be added to developer team too first - hopefully today :)
[02:16] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: they suggest bringing a fan club which speeds up the process
[02:16] <asac> hehe ... ok :)
[02:40] <AlexLatchford> meh
[02:40] <AlexLatchford> whats up?
[02:41] <Admiral_Chicago> not much, waiting for this membership to go through
[02:41] <AlexLatchford> u been discussed yet?
[02:46] <Admiral_Chicago> no, i'm last of 8 iirc
[02:47] <Admiral_Chicago> 6 more between me and current person
[02:47] <AlexLatchford> oh right ok
[02:49] <dfarning_> should be enough time to toast a bagel and spread a bit of cream cheese...But I'll check back back before I pour my juice;)
[02:49] <Admiral_Chicago> tons of time
[02:51] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: how long?
[02:51] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: an least another 20 i'd say
[02:51] <asac> how many applications left before you?
[02:52] <dfarning_> 5 or 6
[02:52] <asac> ups
[02:52] <asac> k
[03:26] <Admiral_Chicago> dfarning_ asac and AlexLatchford, i'm next
[03:27] <AlexLatchford> coolio
[03:27] <Admiral_Chicago> if you want to go and make me look good, that would be great :)
[03:29] <asac> k
[03:31] <dfarning_> I am ready to hit ctrl-v with a blurb
[03:32] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm ready to go back to bed. had to wake up at 5.30 to make sure i was ready
[03:34] <Admiral_Chicago> :) okay
[03:45] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: congrats ... I think you made it, didn't you?
[03:45] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: waiting on sabdfl, he is impressed with our team very much
[03:45] <asac> why should he then vote -1 ?
[03:46] <Admiral_Chicago> no, he just needs to give the word
[03:50] <asac> done
[03:50] <asac> ok ... going out for late lunch :)
[03:50] <Admiral_Chicago> thanks dfarning_ and asac !
[03:50] <asac> i am almost starving now as it took so long :)
[03:51] <Admiral_Chicago> lol, i have a class to get too.
[03:51] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: keep up the good work ;)
[03:51] <Admiral_Chicago> will do asac. gotta run to class
[03:51] <dfarning_> congrats
[03:51] <Admiral_Chicago> thanks a lot
[04:15] <asac> dfarning_: you there ? can you subscribe mozillateam to enigmail bugs too?
[04:23] <dfarning_> asac, what are you some sort of glutton for punishment;)
[04:23] <dfarning_> will do
[04:24] <asac> what did i do?
[04:24] <asac> punish?
[04:25] <dfarning_> subscribed
[04:26] <asac> dfarning_: sorry, I am not a native speaker so I might have missed the point/irony :/
[04:27] <dfarning_> I am a native speaker and still often miss the point or joke
[04:27] <asac> fortunately :)
[04:28] <asac> but maybe its because you chat with non-native speakers ;)
[04:29] <dfarning_> I didn't realize that you are the debian thunderbird guy!
[04:29] <asac> hehe :)
[04:29] <asac> yeah ... one of the crimes i did :)
[04:30] <asac> not anymore ... now I am icedove maintainer :)
[04:31] <asac> http://www.asoftsite.org/s9y/archives/121-a-new-face-for-Icedove.html
[04:31] <dfarning_> opps
[04:33] <dfarning_> once we get the triage mess under control I'm looking forward starting to work on patching
[04:34] <akruth> hi!
[04:34] <asac> yeah ... good to here ... but I have the feeling that bug triage will hunt us for quite some time :)
[04:34] <akruth> i am using thunderbird 1.5 with a profile on my usb stick
[04:34] <akruth> it always forgets the columns i selected
[04:34] <akruth> what can i do?
[04:35] <Admiral_Chicago> akruth: define columns
[04:35] <dfarning_> asac, especilly when you keep requesting that we add more packages to our big list
[04:35] <akruth> in the message view, i can select sender, receiver, size, date and so on
[04:36] <dfarning_> s/big/bug/
[04:36] <akruth> from the list of messages
[04:36] <Admiral_Chicago> akruth: it forgets the columns after you unplug the stick?
[04:36] <asac> dfarning_: enigmail is mostly care free :) ... just good to have it under the mozillateam umbrella :)
[04:36] <akruth> no, after restarting thunderbird
[04:36] <akruth> i tried to delete xul.mfasl
[04:37] <akruth> but it doesn't help
[04:37] <Admiral_Chicago> akruth: hmm, i'd say that is just a limitation of the portability
[04:37] <dfarning_> I'm off to work on apport hooks
[04:37] <dfarning_> yell if you need anything
[04:37] <asac> i remember a bug about usb sticks ... don't know if its this issue
[04:38] <asac> akruth: does it work for you if you don't put the profile on usb mass-storage?
[04:38] <asac> dfarning_: ty
[04:38] <akruth> while i don't unplug it, it is like a ordinary hard-disk
[04:38] <Admiral_Chicago> can someone run me through working with symbolized crashes?
[04:39] <asac> ask if you need specific infos ... there is not much one can give as asummary other than you can try to figure out duplicates why matching similar stack traces
[04:39] <akruth> asac, wait a moment, i have to test that
[04:39] <asac> s/why/by/
[04:40] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: then you can try to find upstream crash reports that contain the same backtraces
[04:42] <Admiral_Chicago> no no, i mean say i find a bug report with symbolised report. where do i go from there
[04:42] <akruth> it doesn't matter if it is on hd or usb
[04:43] <asac> akruth: then you have some other problem. Do you still use a special directory for profile or the default one (.e.g. .mozilla-thunderbird)?
[04:43] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: maybe show me an example bug ... maybe I can explain something then
[04:44] <akruth> asac, this is my directory: /media/ALEX-USB/Thunderbird-Profil
[04:44] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: i don't have one, i'll let you know when I do. perhaps I shouldn't speak in generalities
[04:44] <asac> search for "traced" tag
[04:44] <asac> there should be plenty that need to be evaluated and raised to confirmed level if info is good.
[04:45] <asac> there are quick links on the wiki for tag-searches
[04:46] <akruth> what does: user_pref("mail.preferences.compose.selectedTabIndex", 2); mean?
[04:47] <asac> akruth: can't tell out of my head ... anyway, can you create a new user account and see if things work as expected if you just run thunderbird (without anything special about the profile) from there?
[04:48] <akruth> asac, with a new profile it works correctly
[04:49] <asac> do if you create a new profile on usb it does not work?
[04:49] <akruth> do you know that user_pref("mail.root.none", ...) is for?
[04:50] <akruth> s/that/what
[04:50] <asac> yes it should contain your path to your standard mail boxes
[04:51] <akruth> there is another with "-rel" appended, which is preferred?
[04:51] <asac> -rel is [ProfD] Mail for me
[04:51] <asac> for you?
[04:52] <akruth> in thunderbird
[04:52] <asac> what do you have in those settings?
[04:54] <akruth> the first one is a wrong absolute path and the second one [ProfD] Mail
[04:54] <asac> akruth: did you import your profile from mozilla once?
[04:54] <asac> akruth: does it help to solve your problems if you fix the absolute one?
[04:55] <akruth> i don't remember, maybe
[04:55] <akruth> i deleted the absolute one and tb is still starting
[04:55] <asac> does it regenerate the absolute one?
[04:55] <akruth> no
[04:56] <akruth> what for is the chrome subfolder?
[04:57] <asac> i guess its a relict of old times ... I don't have it here. iirc, there used to be user installed extension chrome files installed in that place .
[04:57] <akruth> do you think i can safely delete it?
[04:57] <asac> at best make a backup before you do anything
[04:57] <akruth> i did
[04:58] <asac> what path is it at?
[04:58] <akruth> in my profile
[04:59] <asac> somewhere below .../extensions/ ?
[04:59] <asac> or in top-level?
[04:59] <asac> what are the contents of it?
[04:59] <akruth> no directly on top-level
[05:00] <akruth> chrome.rdf, userContent.css and another folder: overlayinfo
[05:00] <akruth> tb starts also without it
[05:00] <asac> sounds old ... try to remove it (if you are sure you have everything backed-.up)
[05:00] <akruth> a lot of thrash in my profile....
[05:00] <asac> what fs do you have on your usb stick?
[05:00] <asac> apparently its pretty old
[05:01] <akruth> fat32
[05:01] <asac> hmmm fat32 allows case sensistive files?
[05:01] <akruth> i hardly don't know
[05:01] <akruth> mount options are:  "rw,nosuid,nodev,quiet,shortname=mixed,uid=1000,gid=1000,umask=077,iocharset=utf8"
[05:02] <Admiral_Chicago> There isn't much we can do with Bug #81896
[05:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81896 in mozilla-thunderbird "adress book crash" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81896
[05:02] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm going to close it
[05:02] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: right ... no report no processing (for crashers)
[05:03] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: maybe give him a few more days to answer
[05:03] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: but its you to decide that
[05:03] <Admiral_Chicago> actually no
[05:03] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm going to let them know where the crash may be
[05:03] <asac> thats even better :)
[05:04] <Admiral_Chicago> /var/crash/firefox am I correct?
[05:06] <akruth> is there something obviously wrong with the mount options?
[05:06] <asac> no ... /var/crash/_usr_lib_firefox_firefox-bin.xxx for me
[05:07] <asac> akruth: I don't see anything at a glance
[05:07] <asac> akruth: so creating a new profile on usb stick does work?
[05:07] <akruth> yes
[05:07] <asac> and state is remembered?
[05:07] <akruth> ye
[05:07] <akruth> s
[05:08] <akruth> is there a safe way to copy settings from my old profile to a new one?
[05:08] <asac> unfortunately not ... maybe your permissions are messed up ... do an strace -f thunderbird &> /tmp/somelog ... and the log of a complete thunderbird session to some pastbin please
[05:08] <akruth> there are about 250 MB mails, newsgroups and a lot of settings and accounts
[05:09] <asac> s/and the/and put the/
[05:09] <akruth> i am on dapper
[05:09] <asac> that is unlikely to matter
[05:09] <asac> maybe you need to install strace package before
[05:10] <akruth> the logfile is about 7,5 MB
[05:10] <Admiral_Chicago> thanks for the path
[05:10] <asac> akruth: can you grep for ENOENT ?
[05:11] <akruth> please wait
[05:11] <akruth> 1502 lines matched
[05:11] <asac> or upload the complete log to some place of your convenience ?
[05:11] <asac> i think i would need to take a look at the complete log
[05:15] <akruth> where is a good pastebin?
[05:21] <Admiral_Chicago> akruth: pastebin.ca
[05:23] <akruth> i am pasting.........
[05:23] <akruth> i am pasting..................
[05:24] <akruth> i'm anxious
[05:25] <akruth> Sorry, an error has occurred. Reason: The paste you submitted was over one megabyte in size. Please trim it down.
[05:25] <akruth> :(
[05:27] <asac> you have no other place to upload the gzipped log?
[05:27] <asac> if not ... submit a bug :)
[05:27] <asac> and attach it there ;)
[05:28] <asac> i have the feeling we have to make a proper bug out of this anyways.
[05:30] <akruth> http://bfpi.de/somelog
[05:42] <asac> hmmm see nothing at a glance
[05:44] <akruth> hansenet?
[05:45] <akruth> bist ja garnicht soweit weg
[05:48] <asac> jo :)
[05:48] <asac> hamburg :)
[05:48] <asac> dammtor um genau zu sein
[05:48] <akruth> ich sitz in wismar :)
[05:49] <asac> naja ... doch ne ganz schoene ecke weg :)
[05:49] <akruth> naja dichter als usa oder so
[05:50] <akruth> ist in datei nichts zu finden?
[05:52] <asac> nicht auf den ersten blick
[05:52] <akruth> schade
[05:52] <asac> vielleicht doch ein setting
[05:52] <akruth> oder was am filesystem
[05:53] <asac> glaube ich nicht ... wenn man das ganze mit einem neuen profil auf dem stick loesen kann
[05:54] <asac> maybe you can confirm the prefs from a fresh profile on stick with the old one that does not work?
[05:54] <asac> s/confirm/compare/
[05:54] <asac> :)
[05:54] <akruth> yes, maybe
[05:54] <akruth> my prefs.js is very long
[05:55] <akruth> i'll try to create a new profile
[05:55] <asac> but maybe its worth a try
[05:55] <asac> to compare
[05:56] <akruth> thx, CU
[05:56] <asac> however you should be able to copy mailfolders over ... though i didn't do that recently
[05:56] <akruth> bye
[06:30] <dfarning> asac, I believe you will find a feature request from mdz in your mailbox.
[06:31] <dfarning> sorry, I was discussing apport and matt turned things around on me;(
[06:33] <Admiral_Chicago> so i confirmed a bug, need to get it working on a new profile to make sure it's not an extension causing it
[06:54] <asac> dfarning: so what does this imply?
[06:55] <dfarning> asac, sorry what does what imply?  I had to reboot and lost the thread.
[06:57] <dfarning> ahhh,  It has to do with adding a report a bug option under the help menu on product we work with.
[07:03] <asac> dfarning: just a link to the submit bug report page?
[09:45] <hjmf> hi
[09:46] <hjmf> what's up with tags? do we won't use anymore retrace, traced... tags?
[09:48] <dfarning> I think not
[09:48] <hjmf> dfarning: ? are the new tags defined to be used with bughelper?
[09:49] <hjmf> sorry I think I've missed the whole issue
[09:49] <dfarning> it seems to make more sense to use the needs tags that asac  has come up with
[09:49] <asac> btw, I added some more content
[09:50] <asac> its a draft and still incomplete
[09:50] <asac> but maybe you want to comment on the structure right away
[09:50] <asac> its currently in Bugs/State iirc
[09:50] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/States?highlight=%28mozillateam%29
[09:51] <dfarning> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/Tags
[09:51] <hjmf> I see
[09:51] <dfarning> has the tags that I am using in bughelper
[09:52] <dfarning> asac, have you added more tags?
[09:52] <asac> Tags is the comprehensive page to reference tags ... while state contains the big picture ... e.g. what to do at what state and what tags are valid at what state
[09:52] <asac> some ... anyway, thats open for discussion
[09:52] <asac> not yet to the tag list ... they are named on the state page for the time being
[09:54] <hjmf> great, I now see the picture
[09:54] <dfarning> I like the idea of thinking of the bug resolution process as a state machine
[09:55] <dfarning> that methodilly moves from one state to the next
[09:55] <hjmf> to me that makes a lot of sense
[10:01] <dfarning> asac, to keep the syntax parrall retrace should be changed to needsretrace
[10:04] <dfarning> I also suggest that we add a needsinfo tags to indicate that the issues is waiting for misc information
[10:06] <hjmf> makes sense since the needs info state may also mean 'waiting for work from triagers'. The needsinfo tag will mean need feedback from the user
[10:07] <dfarning> info like version numbers video cards....
[10:09] <asac> dfarning: i am still wondering if we should use a prefix like
[10:10] <asac> mt-needsretrace (e.g. read mozilla team tag: needsretrace)
[10:11] <asac> actually I don't want bugs in state confirmed if we cannot effectively process it
[10:11] <asac> so we need either good traces for crashers
[10:11] <asac> or testers as well as testcases for feature bugs
[10:11] <dfarning> I was wondering about that also
[10:12] <asac> confirm will show: here is all information to evaluate in depth, triage upstream, develop a fix on our own
[10:12] <asac> as soon as we either submit bug upstream or say, yes we know how to implement it, we should take the bug to in progress
[10:13] <asac> there might be different opionion on whether a bug posted upstream is already in progress even though it might be NEW ... but i think from ubuntu pov it is in progress
[10:13] <dfarning> if the state tags are well thought out they should apply across lp
[10:13] <asac> probably ... though it will just makes sense for packages with a high load of bugs
[10:14] <asac> using this workflow for general bug triaging might be difficult, because the actions attached to state/tag  combinations can be quite package specific
[10:14] <asac> but who knows ... establishing a well done workflow in mozilla team allows us to learn a lot ... and maybe we can really find a way to generalize that
[10:15] <dfarning> once we get a version .o1 we can publish a note to the bugsquad for their feed back
[10:16] <asac> yes ... I am in contact with launchpad team as well ... if we find suggestions on how to improve launchpad to support our workflow better,  they appear pretty eager to help us to set things up
[10:17] <dfarning> for confirmed issues we can use pending* tags
[10:18] <dfarning> ie pendingupstreampush, pendinglocialization, pendingbranding
[10:18] <hjmf> pendingupstreampush awful
[10:18] <asac> hehe
[10:18] <hjmf> lol, looks like a german word
[10:19] <dfarning> so devs can quickly pick up bugs they are familar with
[10:19] <asac> for know I am still unsure which tags are needed at confirmed level.
[10:19] <asac> it depends if we will defer upstream triage completely to confirmed state or place that in needs info too
[10:20] <asac> actually at least searching for already known upstream issues is definitly needs info
[10:20] <asac> while pushing upstream is due in confirmed state
[10:21] <asac> imo
[10:21] <dfarning> makes sense
[10:21] <asac> what do you think? We could as well argue that need info is only used as long as informations are needed on our behalf
[10:22] <asac> while all upstream triag belongs to confirmed
[10:23] <hjmf> makes sense, but we need a proper tag to mark as 'searching for known upstream issues'
[10:23] <dfarning> once a bug has been filed upstream it should be moved to inprogess
[10:23] <hjmf> ... in the needs info state
[10:24] <asac> needupstream :)
[10:25] <asac> dfarning: yes that is clear
[10:25] <dfarning> I sure you can add more letter to that if you try;)
[10:26] <asac> i prefer to have tags that are short worded :)
[10:26] <asac> needsomeonetopushthisthingupstreamandsetstatetoinprogress
[10:26] <dfarning> needstobepushedupstream;) no we might be confused with java devs
[10:26] <hjmf> to fit in the browser window
[10:26] <hjmf> or have a wide screen
[10:27] <dfarning> needs info - needsupstream - indicates that some should verify the issues exist upstream
[10:28] <asac> ok ... lets assume we start that way
[10:28] <hjmf> yep
[10:28] <asac> how will it proceded
[10:28] <asac> we have 2 cases
[10:28] <asac> 1. there is a bug upstream
[10:28] <asac> 2. there is no bug upstream
[10:28] <asac> but case 2 is quite tricky as it might as well be difficult to find the appropriate upstream bug on the first run
[10:28] <hjmf> 2. we start a bug upstream
[10:29] <hjmf> ?
[10:29] <asac> have you used bugzilla?
[10:29] <dfarning> confirmed - pendingupstream - indicates a triager with experience with the upsteam tracker
[10:29] <hjmf> asac: no just a search or two
[10:30] <asac> often you need a sleep or two and then you find the proper upstream issue
[10:30] <dfarning> push it upstream
[10:30] <asac> actually if we decide that an issue is upstream, we should take greates care that the bug really is not yet known upstream
[10:30] <asac> otherwise we just waste there time ... and obviously we want to be a good downstream that filters as much duplicates as possible
[10:30] <dfarning> That is one or my main concerns also
[10:30] <asac> s/there/their/
[10:31] <hjmf> agree, you are the expert
[10:31] <dfarning> the best way we can pay back our upstream is to provide good bug reports
[10:32] <asac> we could try to tag something like
[10:32] <asac> findupstream-1 ... findupstream-2 ... findupstream-3 :) ... to do multiple runs at best by different people
[10:33] <hjmf> scary
[10:33] <asac> but for that we would need to add infos on who already did the search ... so this bug will not show up in his task list.
[10:33] <asac> yeah
[10:33] <asac> maybe we can say ... at needs info state we require one search
[10:33] <asac> and triager at confirmed state must do a brief search too
[10:34] <asac> before submitting upstream
[10:34] <dfarning> this is a bit off topic but I am working on developing a relationship with Adobe so we can push good flashplayer bug up to them
[10:34] <asac> in that way we would at least get 2 guaranteed rounds
[10:34] <asac> dfarning: really? great to hear :)
[10:34] <asac> maybe you can say abit about that progress on the next meeting?
[10:35] <hjmf> dfarning: any way to get a flashplayer -dbg package?
[10:36] <asac> hehe .... they might have it and then can use their own -dbg package if they don't want to release it
[10:36] <asac> hjmf: i doubt that they will
[10:36] <hjmf> i knew lol
[10:37] <asac> so did we at least found some consensus on what tags to use for upstream triage at what state?
[10:38] <asac> i would like to introduce needsummary to call for a proper description/title of bugs before they are allowed to enter confirmed state
[10:39] <hjmf> IMHO we should leave in your hands the draft on MozillaTeam/Bugs/States
[10:39] <hjmf> then if a tag doesn't fit we can discuss
[10:40] <asac> ok ... fine with me ... however just stop me if you think this process gets too complicated. I think it will not get much more complexity ... but anyway :)
[10:40] <hjmf> I think that you asac have very clear what to do
[10:41] <hjmf> I love complexity :)
[10:41] <Admiral_Chicago> dfarning: i woud like to push more into that department as well (Adobe upstream)
[10:41] <asac> actually my primary goal is not to keep the complete process really easy. Its more important that we can sort out easy tasks where new contributors can easily get started on
[10:42] <asac> thats why I want to categorize bugs with tags etc.
[10:42] <dfarning> It make me cranky we have flash bugs that are blamed on fx
[10:42] <dfarning> the same process can be used to push bugs up to gnash
[10:42] <hjmf> asac: sure, I'm a needs info triager ;)
[10:42] <dfarning> this irc dicussion moving too fast for my brain;( can I think for a few hours and we'll pick this up again.
[10:43] <asac> sure
[10:43] <dfarning> asac, hjmf  this irc dicussion is moving too fast for my brain;( can I think for a few hours and we'll pick this up again.
[10:43] <dfarning> sorry, lost my connection
[10:43] <asac> will be here tomorrow
[10:43] <hjmf> lads, for me is time to go to bed
[10:43] <hjmf> cy
[10:43] <asac> good night!!
[10:44] <dfarning> good night
[10:44] <hjmf> good nignt
[10:45] <dfarning> Admiral_Chicago, I am also talking with Click and Run to establish a positave relationship with them
[10:46] <Admiral_Chicago> i see, i don't particularly see a need for CNR but I would like healthy relationships with them
[10:47] <asac> CNR?
[10:48] <Admiral_Chicago> Click and Run
[10:48] <dfarning> Linspire/freespire is going to be shipping products on top of ubuntu
[10:49] <asac> is this official?
[10:49] <Admiral_Chicago> yes
[10:49] <dfarning> it is
[10:49] <Admiral_Chicago> i detest anyone with an enterprise edition, i'm opposed to that idea in any form
[10:50] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: opposed to what idea exactly?
[10:50] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: having to pay for linspire.
[10:52] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: hard to judge ... I don't know their business model
[10:52] <Admiral_Chicago> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linspire
[10:52] <Admiral_Chicago> the have Linsprie and Freespire
[10:53] <Admiral_Chicago> on one hand, they donate millions to Free projects
[10:53] <asac> imo ... in order to fix bug 1 there need to be distributors that somehow take care that oem systems ship with some linux distribution
[10:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ichthux "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[10:54] <asac> so i am not against it ... though personally i won't pay for it
[10:55] <asac> ... iirc linspire actually tries to find ways to ship systems with gnu/linux preinstalled
[10:55] <Admiral_Chicago> i think it goes against the idea of free software. I like that it is free as in beer, free as in speech
[10:56] <Admiral_Chicago> Jeff Waugh said something along the lines of "a lot of the software we ship we don't write ourselves, so charging for it is ridiculous"
[10:57] <asac> agree ... for me free as in speech matters only. however, thats why i asked about the business model, if they provide end-user support and things like that i am fine with charging a fee.
[10:57] <asac> as long as they obey gpl and other license term, the community still has its benifit from commercial linux vendors
[10:58] <Admiral_Chicago> i like how Red Hat does support
[10:58] <asac> you won't get any security updates when you don't pay your support subscription, right :) ?
[10:58] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm of the belief that people should pay for quality items
[10:59] <Admiral_Chicago> but I see nonfree formats as inferior. ogg vs. mp3 for example
[10:59] <asac> agree ... but in order to free the world we first have to catch loads of users :)
[11:00] <Admiral_Chicago> we are doing that now though. 8 million in 3 years or something like that.
[11:00] <asac> actually mp3 is the lesser evil ... ms formats focussed on drm is the real evil in this world atm.
[11:01] <Admiral_Chicago> yea that too. I've heard a lot of people saying they aren't going to use Vista because of the DRM
[11:01] <Admiral_Chicago> which is why I applaud them
[11:02] <asac> you are jokin?
[11:02] <Admiral_Chicago> however, I think the biggest problem is getting hardware vendors ship desktops with Ubunut
[11:02] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: no, my best friend who uses XP said he won't use Vista for that reason
[11:02] <asac> they won't unless they get a margin on it
[11:02] <asac> ah ok ... I thought you applaud people going vista :)
[11:03] <Admiral_Chicago> aren't is the key word. :)
[11:03] <asac> yeah ... its late here :)
[11:03] <Admiral_Chicago> okay i have to run
[11:03] <asac> however as soon as people realize that they cannot play music just bought in some webshop they might consider to upgrade
[11:04] <asac> as they don't understand that they sacrifice themselves and get a step closer to hell :)
[11:04] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: ok ... bye
[11:04] <asac> I am off now for real :)