[07:32] <sid> @schedule New_York
[07:32] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 14 Feb 05:00: MOTU | 14 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 00:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 10:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu
[11:02] <dholbach> hello everybody - do we have a motu meeting right now?
[11:02] <sistpoty> hi dholbach
[11:02] <ajmitch> we do!
[11:02] <dholbach> I thought maybe everybody was out to celebrate Valentine's day :)
[11:02] <ajmitch> at least I hope we have enough people
[11:02] <ajmitch> I think a few are
[11:02] <ajmitch> (or just sleeping)
[11:02] <dholbach> ok... who's here?
[11:02] <ajmitch> laserjock sends his apologies, 2AM isn't suitable
[11:03] <TheMuso> Valentine's day? Who'd waste their time with that?
[11:03] <jsgotangco> lol
[11:03] <ajmitch> TheMuso: people who aren't single :)
[11:03] <TheMuso> Thats understandable IMO
[11:03] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco :)
[11:03] <dholbach> http://xkcd.com/c223.html
[11:03] <sistpoty> ajmitch: I tend to agree... 11am isn't suitable *g*
[11:03] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I'm impressed that you're awake at this early hour :)
[11:03] <dholbach> scottk has an item on the agenda, but doesn't seem to be here
[11:04] <ajmitch> so the rest is sistpoty? :)
[11:04] <sistpoty> ajmitch: well... awake is a different state than I'm in now *g+
[11:04] <dholbach> sistpoty: you have some items on the agenda - why don't you start us off?
[11:04] <sistpoty> ok
[11:04] <sistpoty> anyone volunteering for the minutes?
[11:04] <ajmitch> um
[11:05] <sistpoty> cool, thx ajmitch
[11:05] <TheMuso> ajmitch: I will if you'd rather not.
[11:05] <TheMuso> I don't mind you doing it, but if you really don't want to.
[11:05] <ajmitch> TheMuso: ok, thanks :)
[11:05] <sistpoty> great, thx TheMuso
[11:05] <sistpoty> let's get started, right?
[11:05] <sistpoty> first item: Proposal to drop the requirement for MOTU's to have new packages reviewed
[11:06] <sistpoty> well... we're always lagging with revu behind
[11:06] <ajmitch> and enough MOTUs skip this step
[11:06] <sistpoty> and imo it doesn't seem that sane that motu's should have the same requirements as non-motus to bring new packages in
[11:07] <TheMuso> As well as already having the rights and responsibilities that come with the title of MOTU.
[11:07] <ajmitch> it wasn't the same, but it was 1 other ACK
[11:07] <sistpoty> practices differ ;)
[11:07] <ajmitch> yeah
[11:07] <TheMuso> Yep.
[11:08] <ajmitch> the intended practice was that a MOTU upload to REVU & get 1 other MOTU to check it
[11:08] <sistpoty> well... I'd propose that motu's are "encouraged to get a new package reviewed" instead of forcing them to go through revu
[11:08] <sistpoty> what do you think?
[11:08] <ajmitch> that has frequently been skipped by MOTUs who've been around awhile :)
[11:08] <ajmitch> sure
[11:08] <TheMuso> I like that.
[11:08] <dholbach> I agree, TheMuso has a point... although I think that probably the MC should take that decision once it's active. This decision has more consequences than others.
[11:08] <TheMuso> One area that other reviewing is useful is copyright related stuff.
[11:08] <tfheen> as an archive team member, I'd be fine with you dropping the requirement, but if it ends up being even more rejects because of it, I'd like you to reconsider.
[11:09] <TheMuso> Fair enough.
[11:09] <sistpoty> great
[11:10] <sistpoty> any objections?
[11:10] <dholbach> what do you think about deferring the decision to the first MC meeting?
[11:10] <ajmitch> sounds fair
[11:10] <sistpoty> fine with me
[11:10] <TheMuso> Yep. I'm sure crimsun would have something to say on this.
[11:10] <dholbach> we gathered enough arguments now, but I think that a policy decision should be made by the MC
[11:10] <dholbach> alrighty, let's move on
[11:11] <sistpoty> ok... scottk isn't here, right?
[11:11] <dholbach> yeah, let's move on - we can discuss his question on the mailing list
[11:11] <sistpoty> Decide on standard policy for upstream debian dirs
[11:11] <dholbach> I don't think it's necessary to have a policy for that, but a "best practice" bit in the FAQ maybe
[11:12] <dholbach> shall I kick off a thread on the mailing list for that?
[11:12] <TheMuso> I saw one package that renamed upstream's debian to debian.upstream.
[11:12] <sistpoty> well... it was discussed on the ml in the past, but without a result
[11:12] <sistpoty> so I'd rather discuss it here to have it settled
[11:12] <dholbach> ok, there are 3 possibilities: 1) remove it, 2) rename it, 3) leave it (and in all cases talk to upstream to get it removed there)
[11:13] <dholbach> (maybe also: repackage, native package)
[11:13] <TheMuso> I have seen many a package that ships with .spec files etc for rpm based distros, so what has been the problem with upstream providing a debian dir in the past?
[11:13] <sistpoty> imo the first thing would always be to ask upstream to remove it... if that won't work, I'd tend to say that any packager may do as he seems fit
[11:14] <sistpoty> TheMuso: the problem is that you cannot remove files from it (unless you remove them from the tarball) and that the .diff.gz looks kinda weird
[11:14] <ajmitch> TheMuso: it's harder to change a number of files in a .diff.gz, since it doesn't track deletions well
[11:14] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:14] <dholbach> I don't think I'd dictate a workflow there.
[11:14] <ajmitch> it depends on how messy upstream's debian/ is
[11:15] <ajmitch> so up to the packager
[11:15] <ajmitch> I think the issue was new people getting conflicting advice
[11:15] <dholbach> who wants to add a blurb to MOTU/FAQ? :)
[11:15] <sistpoty> ok... everybody agreeing that it's up to the packager?
[11:15] <TheMuso> Yep.
[11:15] <dholbach> yeah
[11:16] <sistpoty> great
[11:16] <sistpoty> I'll add the text to motu/faq, if no one else is faster ;)
[11:16] <sistpoty> let's move on, shall we?
[11:16] <dholbach> sure
[11:16] <dholbach> thanks sistpoty
[11:16] <TheMuso> yep ok
[11:16] <ajmitch> make it a fast meeting :)
[11:16] <sistpoty> :)
[11:16] <sistpoty> well, this was discussed on the ml as well... do we want zero-install injector?
[11:16] <tmarble> here's a naive question... if upstream debian/ is significantly changed does that hamper fix flow back to debian (i.e. does not minimize the debian-ubuntu diff)?
[11:17] <ajmitch> seems like there's only 4 of us here & active
[11:17] <ajmitch> tmarble: in this case, upstream is the original author, rather than debian
[11:17] <TheMuso> What is zero-install injector?
[11:17] <tmarble> ajmitch, ah i see (sorry for the confusion)
[11:17] <sistpoty> TheMuso: it let's an user install packages, which get downloaded by some means
[11:18] <ajmitch> tmarble: often the original upstream project might have someone who's contributing packaging in their project, and it's not in debian yet
[11:18] <dholbach> sistpoty: do we have a link to the project? who wanted to bring it into ubuntu? it sounds more like an archive admin decision to me?
[11:18] <grimace> www.0install.net
[11:18] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I'm not really a fan of more breakage, but I've heard less scary things about zeroinstall than about autopackage
[11:19] <tsmithe> i think we should let 0install in, on the basis of not what it is, but it being an ok and legal package. we don't have to support it's efforts
[11:19] <sistpoty> tfheen: still there? could you share us your opinion on zero-install?
[11:19] <dholbach> ask pitti :)
[11:19] <tfheen> sistpoty: let me take a look.
[11:19] <ajmitch> see if he runs away screaming?
[11:19] <sistpoty> well, I reviewed the package (also looking at the code a lilttle bit) and it didn't seem too offensive security wise
[11:20] <tfheen> like klik, it seems.
[11:20] <sistpoty> however it provides an alternate means to install software
[11:20] <talex> Hi guys. I'm the author of Zero Install, so if you have any technical questions, ask away...
[11:20] <sistpoty> so I'm really undecided
[11:20] <sistpoty> hi talex
[11:20] <grimace> I've been running it for years very nicely ;)
[11:20] <sistpoty> how about letting archive admins decide on this issue?
[11:21] <dholbach> sistpoty++
[11:21] <TheMuso> THat sounds sane to me.
[11:21] <tfheen> depends on how it works, but if it's like klik which does something like MacOS disk images, I'm fine with it, from an archive POV, but I think we can offer a much better user experience by packaging the software properly.
[11:21] <tfheen> talex might be able to comment (short) on that?
[11:21] <grimace> tfheen: then it will be up to the user to agree with you?
[11:21] <talex> It installs to a self contained directory, rather than a disk image, but same principle.
[11:22] <talex> Also, the download is an XML file, rather than a shell script, but the effect is the same.
[11:23] <tfheen> ok.
[11:23] <tfheen> from an archive point of view, that's fine with me and as long as it doesn't end up tripping the rest of the system (*cough* autopackage *cough*) it shouldn't cause problems either.
[11:24] <talex> Right. It will never install anything outside of ~/.cache/0install.net or (if run as root) /var/cache/0install.net
[11:24] <sistpoty> tfheen: ok, then I'll just upload the package and you can look at it via new... ok?
[11:25] <tfheen> sistpoty: sure.
[11:25] <sistpoty> great... let's move on
[11:25] <ajmitch> great, halfway through the meeting items
[11:25] <dholbach> sistpoty wants to review the uvf-process
[11:25] <ajmitch> UVF team/process
[11:25] <ajmitch> some confusion here
[11:25] <sistpoty> well... UVF has just started...
[11:25] <dholbach> slomo, siretart and I agreed to have the same uvf team again to avoid having to vote etc again
[11:26] <dholbach> the next team should be appointed by the MC (in time!) :)
[11:26] <dholbach> we just didn't want to have a delay because of that
[11:26] <TheMuso> dholbach: Makes sense.
[11:26] <sistpoty> ok... have there been many UVF requests yet? are you getting along well?
[11:26] <dholbach> atm there are 7 open afaik
[11:26] <sistpoty> (basically the item was just a ping to make sure everything's working as expected)
[11:27] <ajmitch> dholbach: if I get going this weekend I'll have a bunch more
[11:27] <dholbach> I'll go through the open bugs later today
[11:27] <ajmitch> dholbach: there's 1 unconfirmed assigned to motu-uvf
[11:27] <ajmitch> I think that once they're confirmed, motu-uvf should be unassigned, right?
[11:27] <dholbach> yeah that'd make sense
[11:28] <tmarble> sorry for the n00b question, just what exactly *is* the UVF process? (i.e. file special bugs, etc.)?
[11:28] <ajmitch> tmarble: yep, file a bug, assign it to motu-uvf
[11:28] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
[11:28] <ajmitch> thanks
[11:29] <sistpoty> ok... if everything is working (as it looks to me), I see no need for further discussion
[11:29] <dholbach> tmarble: we're in upstream version freeze now, so a special team checks a upstream changelog diff and a diffstat before approval
[11:29] <dholbach> revu sprint sounds good :)
[11:29] <ajmitch> sistpoty: so from that, motu-uvf don't upload on the 2nd ack, that's only for SRU :)
[11:30] <ajmitch> I thought another revu sprint was already scheduled?
[11:30] <sistpoty> ajmitch: yep, right... there is no debdiff involved
[11:30] <sistpoty> is it?
[11:30] <dholbach> no
[11:30] <TheMuso> ajmitch: News to me.
[11:30] <ajmitch> if not, then let's do it
[11:30] <sistpoty> ajmitch: since you're chief of qa, please pick a sensible date ;)
[11:30] <ajmitch> hah
[11:31] <TheMuso> haha
[11:31] <ajmitch> what time suits people?
[11:31] <sistpoty> hehe
[11:31] <ajmitch> monday/tuesday?
[11:31] <TheMuso> Whenever at the moment. I'm around a lot of my waking hours.
[11:31] <dholbach> sounds good to me
[11:31] <ajmitch> ok
[11:31] <sistpoty> sounds sane
[11:31] <ajmitch> it's generally just a time for people to do more reviewing
[11:32] <ajmitch> sanity, from me?
[11:32] <dholbach> :-)
[11:32] <sistpoty> hehe
[11:32] <TheMuso> ajmitch: lol
[11:32] <dholbach> ok... moving to TODOs
[11:32] <sistpoty> well... this point is up for everyone...
[11:32] <dholbach> sistpoty: is the item a try to update the TODO page?
[11:33] <ajmitch> yeah, I've slipped behind on getting more lists, and getting commented lists
[11:33] <dholbach> UnmetDeps for sure
[11:33] <dholbach> I see one 'transition' coming up, but the documentation for that is not ready yet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PyDbgBuilds
[11:33] <ajmitch> since I promised a commentable unmet deps list & some others
[11:33] <dholbach> so don't mention that yet
[11:33] <ajmitch> how much work in that one?
[11:33] <dholbach> doko will write something to the lists too
[11:33] <TheMuso> Is there a way of getting a list of unmet deps for source packages?
[11:34] <ajmitch> TheMuso: the basic way is apt-cache -u unmet
[11:34] <ajmitch> and then pushing that through a few filters to get a list of source packages
[11:34] <sistpoty> hm... how about doing mass bug filing for unmet deps?
[11:34] <ajmitch> should be easy enough if they're verified before filing
[11:35] <sistpoty> dholbach: didn't you do that with a script for edgy?
[11:35] <dholbach> sistpoty: massfiling bugs?
[11:35] <sistpoty> dholbach: yep
[11:35] <dholbach> sistpoty: http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile
[11:35] <sistpoty> cool
[11:36] <ajmitch> who's going to do it? we don't want 2 or 3 people mass-filing :)
[11:37] <dholbach> I thought about using python-bughelper to determine if bugs are already filed.
[11:37] <ajmitch> sistpoty: fine, I'll volunteer :P
[11:37] <dholbach> but I'm not sure it's going to work as it is atm
[11:37] <sistpoty> ajmitch: great :)
[11:37] <geser> on which arch will the checking be done for the bugs?
[11:37] <ajmitch> dholbach: it'd be slow & cause plenty of LP load
[11:37] <ajmitch> geser: amd64 or x86, I've got both
[11:37] <ajmitch> in a nice squeaky clean chroot
[11:38] <dholbach> ajmitch: no no :)
[11:38] <geser> there are some unmet deps which only appear on one arch (due to ftbfs)
[11:38] <dholbach> what else do we have? how are the merges looking?
[11:38] <ajmitch> dholbach: no no?
[11:38] <ajmitch> merges are looking better
[11:38] <dholbach> ajmitch: no no "slow" :)
[11:38] <TheMuso_> um.... ok guys
[11:38] <sistpoty> well... we still have ajmitch's list of RC-bug fixes
[11:38] <ajmitch> there are still a number of serious/grave bugs that debian has fixed
[11:38] <TheMuso_> I was cut off. What'd I miss?
[11:38] <ajmitch> yeah
[11:38] <sistpoty> and lucas list's of FTBFS
[11:39] <ajmitch> TheMuso: you've been delegated to fix universe bugs
[11:39] <dholbach> TheMuso_: I'll paste you what happened
[11:39] <ajmitch> logs should be on the usual place later
[11:39] <TheMuso_> dholbach: Thanks.
[11:40] <dholbach> what else do we have? pythondbg (once it gets started), unmet deps, merges - what else? :)
[11:40] <sistpoty> bug fixing, bug fixing, bug fixing ...
[11:40] <dholbach> ok, sounds good :)
[11:40] <ajmitch> so more sync request need to be filed for the RC bugs, I filed about 50 already, I'll get onto doing some more
[11:40] <dholbach> ahh... how many motus are you mentoring at the moment?
[11:40] <ajmitch> I may need UVF exceptions, so be ready :)
[11:40] <ajmitch> none
[11:41] <dholbach> i don't believe a word :)
[11:41] <dholbach> ok... if people talk to you, we should be good at pointing them at the todo
[11:41] <TheMuso_> ajmitch: You are thorough.
[11:41] <sistpoty> ok... anything else on the TODO-list? if not let's agree on a date of the next meeting
[11:41] <dholbach> maybe we should also try to tag universe bugs as "packaging bug" or something
[11:41] <ajmitch> ok, we've got enough to keep the TODO updated?
[11:42] <dholbach> so people who are interested can get involved easily in fixing packaging
[11:42] <TheMuso_> who's updating it?
[11:42] <sistpoty> dholbach++
[11:42] <dholbach> what do you think about having a universe bug sprint to do just that
[11:42] <ajmitch> bug triage, or bug fixing?
[11:42] <dholbach> for bughelper bugs we use "bitesize" to indicate an easy bug
[11:42] <TheMuso_> I guess that sort of thing can happen after FF?
[11:42] <dholbach> triage, so we can point people to a list of bugs
[11:42] <dholbach> maybe we should have a discussion about bug tags on the mailing list
[11:42] <ajmitch> dholbach: sounds like something the bugsquad may be able to do
[11:42] <sistpoty> that would be great
[11:43] <dholbach> i can see "packaging" and "bitesize" as useful already
[11:43] <dholbach> ajmitch: we should do that too
[11:43] <dholbach> ajmitch: we can't shove bugs to "bugsquad"
[11:43] <ajmitch> if there are people in the bugsquad who can identify stuff as packaging bugs
[11:43] <dholbach> that doesn't work
[11:43] <ajmitch> no, but I'd hope that they be the first line of bug triage :)
[11:43] <dholbach> we should make an effort too
[11:43] <dholbach> and explain what our "guidelines" and "ideas" are
[11:43] <ajmitch> of course, I'm not saying that we should drop it on them
[11:44] <dholbach> ok
[11:44] <dholbach> any other business?
[11:44] <geser> what should we do with mozilla-browser in feisty? it's removed from debian and replaced with seamonkey upstream
[11:44] <ajmitch> next meeting time
[11:44] <ajmitch> if we keep mozilla-browser in feisty, someone will need to keep it updated
[11:45] <geser> from where will you update it? upstream abandoned it
[11:45] <sistpoty> I'd like to go with debian in this respect, unless someone is volunteering to take care of it
[11:45] <dholbach> next meeting time: maybe we should have a MC meeting first and discuss where we want to go with MC meetings vs MOTU meetings
[11:46] <ajmitch> dholbach: sounds good, so we need a MC first :)
[11:46] <geser> should we replace mozilla-browser with iceape?
[11:46] <dholbach> right-o
[11:46] <dholbach> what about MC meeting end of next week?
[11:46] <ajmitch> sounds good
[11:46] <dholbach> that'd leave some time for the MC to talk to each other etc
[11:47] <ajmitch> 3 (potential) MC members here to agree on it, so it should work
[11:47] <sistpoty> yep... sounds sane
[11:47] <dholbach> friday same time? a bit later?
[11:47] <ajmitch> votes close in 13 hours, will you announce to the world after that?
[11:48] <ajmitch> friday 10:00UTC?
[11:48] <sistpoty> dholbach: a bit later would be nice for me :P
[11:48] <ajmitch> will sistpoty be awake?
[11:48] <sistpoty> hehe
[11:48] <dholbach> sistpoty: 2h more? :)
[11:48] <ajmitch> not too much later, please :)
[11:48] <sistpoty> well.. 10utc is fine for me as well... I wanted to get a saner wake-sleep rythm anyways
[11:48] <ajmitch> TheMuso_: sistpoty is more in my timezone than dholbach's ;)
[11:49] <dholbach> ok fri, 23rd 10 utc MC meeting
[11:49] <ajmitch> ok
[11:49] <dholbach> excellent
[11:49] <dholbach> thanks a lot to everybody for a QUICK meeting
[11:49] <sistpoty> cool :)
[11:49] <ajmitch> thanks!
[11:49] <dholbach> we're getting quite disciplined :)
[11:49] <sistpoty> thanks
[11:49] <ajmitch> it helped that there were so few of us
[11:49] <ajmitch> TheMuso_: thank you very much
[11:50] <TheMuso_> np
[11:50] <ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html should have the full log in 30min or so, or I can stick it somewhere for you
[11:50] <TheMuso_> Now if freenode could just kick my original connection, I'd be happier. :)
[11:51] <dholbach>   /msg nickserv ghost themuso <password>
[11:51] <TheMuso_> ajmitch: Besides the cutoff, where dholbach msgd the missed bits, I have it logged
[11:51] <TheMuso_> dholbach: thanks
[11:51] <ajmitch> ok, I've got the whole thing
[11:52] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Thanks, but I'll probably not need it.
[11:52] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/motu-meeting.log
[11:52] <TheMuso> thanks
[11:53] <TheMuso> I think NSW ADSL customers experienced something weird.
[11:53] <TheMuso> anyways, back to -motu
[11:53] <TheMuso> thanks folks
[04:26] <juliux> @schedule
[04:26] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 14 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 05:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 15:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 12:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[04:27] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[04:27] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 14 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 06:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 16:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[04:31] <azeem> W62
[04:31] <azeem> oops.
[04:32] <gnomefreak> @schedule new_york
[04:32] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 14 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 15 Feb 00:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 10:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:00] <willvdl> woot
[09:00] <ogra> RichEd cant attend today
[09:00] <willvdl> Firstly, thanks to anyone that is facing the wrath of wives, girlfrineds, boyfriends etc. by being here
[09:01] <ogra> on my side there is not much for tech  ... last week was bus feautre freeze week ... this week is herd4 preparation week
[09:01] <ogra> *busy
[09:02] <ogra> so all i can say, help testing ! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ReportingResults has the new testing procedures
[09:03] <ogra> to compensate the not implemented fat clients i enabled the kiosk plugin in ltsp ... you are able to build a webkiosk now very easily
[09:04] <ogra> so we have at least the basic structure for a fat client ... people wanting a full desktop kiosk mode can even install (ed)ubuntu-desktop in the client ...
[09:04] <willvdl> cool
[09:04] <willvdl> had a chat with heno
[09:04] <willvdl> seems LP is used mainly for test tracking (ooh what's that link again)
[09:04] <ogra> it explains how to use LP :)
[09:05] <ogra> what i'd like to point out to everyone is: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UES-Sevilla
[09:05] <juliux> evening
[09:05] <juliux> sorry i am late
[09:05] <ogra> we will have our next educational conference in may
[09:05] <willvdl> ogra: yeah :) https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-iso-tests
[09:06] <willvdl> v. excited about this
[09:06] <ogra> from may 3rd to may 4th we'll try to gather as many educators as possible in sevilla
[09:06] <ogra> anybody is free to come indeed :)
[09:06] <Spec> in spain?
[09:06] <ogra> yep
[09:07] <willvdl> yip
[09:07] <willvdl> right before UDS
[09:07] <ogra> it is directly attached to UDS
[09:08] <ogra> anyway, thats all from my side unless there are questions
[09:08] <willvdl> as RichEd would put it, it is a conf aimed at both "above the desktop" and "below"
[09:08] <ogra> oh, if you test feisty, please test the serveraddon iso as well
[09:08] <willvdl> how's 2nd CD coming along?
[09:08] <willvdl> haven't had a chance to look this week
[09:09] <ogra> well, i havent done the seed changes yet
[09:09] <juliux> ogra, when is herd4 released?
[09:09] <LaserJock> well, I still have a list of MIR Candidates at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/EdubuntuMIRCandidates
[09:09] <ogra> so it's still the same as last week
[09:09] <juliux> or will release
[09:09] <ogra> juliux, tomorrow is ETA ... dunno if it will make it
[09:09] <juliux> ogra, yes my fault i thought today is already the 15th;9
[09:09] <LaserJock> I've almost finished a MIR for rasmol (I had a nightmare the other day that iwj found a CVE I didn't find)
[09:10] <ogra> i'm planning to shuffle the seeds as soon as the Cd is out ... the dailies after that miught break horribly, so be careful
[09:10] <willvdl> LaserJock, rasmol?
[09:10] <ogra> LaserJock, heh
[09:10] <LaserJock> molecule visualization
[09:10] <ogra> LaserJock, so we share some fears actually :)
[09:10] <LaserJock> it's like the first chemistry app I used
[09:11] <LaserJock> the problem I'm seeing is the field get's narrowed down very fast if you take out apps that have a lot of dependencies in Universe and ones that aren't maintained well (either in Debian or upstream)
[09:11] <ogra> yep
[09:12] <ogra> but the field of apps in main we dont ship yet is big as well
[09:12] <ogra> i'm pretty sure we'll get together something sufficient for feisty ... even if only one or two new apps come from universe
[09:13] <LaserJock> I'd like to get qcad, octave, and stellarium in
[09:13] <ogra> qucad is a good one
[09:13] <ogra> -u
[09:13] <LaserJock> drgeo has a dead upstream otherwise I'd do it
[09:13] <ajmitch> is moodle going into main?
[09:13] <LaserJock> it'll have to be reworked
[09:13] <LaserJock> i.e. not for Feisty that I  know of
[09:13] <ogra> ajmitch, it would have needed to be in before FF
[09:13] <LaserJock> maybe ogra's worked on that
[09:14] <ajmitch> ogra: a shame
[09:14] <ogra> yeah
[09:14] <LaserJock> I'd *like* to do it for Feisty+1
[09:14] <ogra> i'll package the most recent version for feisty+1 closely working with upstream (who will come to UES i hope)
[09:14] <LaserJock> I was going to do it for Feisty but my time has been severly short
[09:15] <ogra> it can be a ubuntuesque package that doesnt need to go to debian i.e. moodle1.7
[09:15] <LaserJock> as far as 2nd CD stuff goes
[09:16] <LaserJock> I really need feedback from educators
[09:16] <ajmitch> ogra: I suggest looking at dbconfig-common to replace wwwconfig-common :)
[09:16] <ogra> that saves us headdaches with upgrade paths and gives us the possibility to keep the 1.6 package for people who want it ...
[09:16] <LaserJock> I have some ideas of packages but I'd rather package what educators already know they need, rather than what I think they need
[09:16] <ogra> ajmitch, well, either that or totally without ***config-common
[09:17] <ajmitch> if you want to write all the db creation & management scripts yourself
[09:17] <ogra> for new packages we have all options :)
[09:17] <ogra> notMax, but i can ask upstream to maintain them in a way that my postinst doesnt need to be freakys
[09:18] <LaserJock> ogra: how strict is the "only one app for each task" for Edubuntu?
[09:18] <ogra> that was supposed to read "no", sorry notMax
[09:18] <ogra> LaserJock, depends, what do you propose ?
[09:18] <LaserJock> I found several good calculator/function plotter type apps
[09:19] <LaserJock> but they are really for different levels
[09:19] <willvdl> LaserJock, I would imagine they would also tie into different backends?
[09:19] <ogra> do you think you will find more of such apps ?
[09:19] <LaserJock> lybniz is a really basic and usable function plotter that would be good for younger kids
[09:19] <LaserJock> but qalculate is a really cool and powerful calculator (I hate to even call it that)
[09:19] <LaserJock> it does unit conversion, plotting, etc.
[09:19] <willvdl> and the kde one? kplot is it?
[09:20] <ogra> kig i think
[09:20] <LaserJock> yeah, there are a few kde ones
[09:20] <LaserJock> qalculate has both gtk and qt versions I believe
[09:20] <willvdl> yeah, kig
[09:20] <LaserJock> seperate source though, which is weird
[09:20] <willvdl> LaserJock, what about Logo/Squeak type thingies?
[09:21] <LaserJock> Squeak is non-free
[09:21] <LaserJock> not sure what we have for Logo
[09:21] <ogra> we should go with the best still ... if we find more apps to categorize them i.e. in an edubuntu-science-advanced metapackage we should do so ...
[09:21] <ogra> we have kturtle
[09:21] <willvdl> love kturtle
[09:21] <LaserJock> ogra: my point was, if I find apps that are sort of the same thing, just designed for different age ranges, is that considered a duplicate?
[09:21] <ogra> thjats apparently still the best logo app
[09:22] <willvdl>  kturtle :)
[09:22] <ogra> LaserJock, not if we can group them into install tasks i would say
[09:22] <ogra> if its only one single app i'd say we should consider exceptions on a case by case base
[09:22] <LaserJock> ok, that's sort of what I was thinking
[09:23] <LaserJock> so far calculators are the only ones I've run into
[09:23] <willvdl> LaserJock, I'm not familiar with the packages but I woudl assume it's OK if one=primary and the other=secondary
[09:23] <ogra> i'm all for replacing the gnome default calculator for example ...
[09:23] <ogra> that leaves us with only one additional app ;)
[09:24] <LaserJock> ogra: ok, so what is your feeling on me doing some more MIRs?
[09:24] <ogra> since i expect at least one of them can work like a standard calculator
[09:24] <LaserJock> I asked -devel if FF applied to these 2nd CD apps
[09:24] <LaserJock> and they said it was basically up to you
[09:24] <ogra> LaserJock, itz wont hurt ... if we dont get them in we still have MIRs we only need to update
[09:24] <LaserJock> ok
[09:25] <ogra> concentrate on the ones with the lest deps
[09:25] <LaserJock> I'll continue working on them, and hopefully at a much more rapid pace
[09:25] <ogra> *least
[09:25] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:25] <LaserJock> that's why I started with rasmol
[09:25] <LaserJock> rasmol, lybniz, and qcad don't need any deps from Universe
[09:25] <ogra> great
[09:26] <LaserJock> octave is one that has a few
[09:26] <LaserJock> but in my  thread on the forums it comes up a lot
[09:26] <LaserJock> as the best free Matlab replacement
[09:26] <ogra> is drgeo in main ?
[09:26] <LaserJock> but it needs lam, mpich, hdf5, gnuplot, libgd
[09:26] <LaserJock> no
[09:26] <ogra> its an often requested app
[09:26] <LaserJock> and it's upstream is dead so I didn't know if we could do a MIR or not
[09:27] <juliux> octave is the beste math tool i ever used
[09:27] <ogra> drgeo ?
[09:27] <ogra> hmm, that ssad
[09:27] <LaserJock> yeah, Burgwork found it for me
[09:27] <willvdl> octave upstream dead?
[09:27] <LaserJock> not octave, drgeo
[09:27] <willvdl> ah
[09:27] <LaserJock> drgeo really looks like a good app
[09:28] <ogra> yeah, but nothing for now ...
[09:28] <LaserJock> anyway
[09:28] <LaserJock> I've been digging around
[09:28] <LaserJock> trying to see which ones are worth it, etc.
[09:28] <LaserJock> and I'm almost done with rasmol
[09:28] <ogra> good
[09:28] <LaserJock> but I should have more up by the end of the week
[09:29] <LaserJock> I got some gchemutils work out of the way last night
[09:29] <ogra> i'll kick kdeedu and gcompris off the CD on friday then ...
[09:29] <ogra> and have a look around main for apps we could use
[09:29] <LaserJock> oh, and I talked with jono about jokosher
[09:29] <LaserJock> I don't know if I mentioned it to you ogra
[09:30] <willvdl> intersting angle
[09:30] <ogra> yep you did
[09:30] <LaserJock> k
[09:30] <ogra> inkscape looks like a good one ...
[09:30] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:30] <LaserJock> I'll go through Main too, I hadn't really thought about that
[09:30] <ogra> with the free space we can finally ship mono ...  how about f-spot by default ?
[09:31] <ogra> *f-spot
[09:31] <willvdl> interesting, these are not what one "traditionally" lumps into educational tools?
[09:31] <LaserJock> willvdl: it's still a computer :-)
[09:31] <LaserJock> I think f-spot would be good
[09:31] <LaserJock> tomboy too
[09:31] <LaserJock> as students can keep notes
[09:31] <ogra> willvdl, well, an app for vector drawing should be a standard
[09:32] <ogra> we ship gimp for pixel pushing ... so we can as well grab inkscape :)
[09:32] <willvdl> ogra, it should be in main as DTP app...
[09:32] <ogra> inkscape is in main
[09:32] <ogra> it's just not on any CDs yet
[09:32] <willvdl> ah. there we go. gotcha
[09:32] <LaserJock> is there an easy way to see what's in Main but not on the CDs?
[09:33] <ogra> there are a bunch of such apps, i need to dig through that ...
[09:33] <ogra> the seeds ...
[09:33] <ogra> and germinate should be able to help you as well
[09:33] <LaserJock> well, I could grab the Packages.gz from Main and subtract out what's in the seeds
[09:33] <ogra> right
[09:34] <LaserJock> I'm sure Pete could write something ;-)
[09:34] <ogra> heh
[09:34] <LaserJock> he wrote me a little script to check the deps
[09:34] <LaserJock> for MIRs
[09:34] <pochu> @now
[09:34] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 14 2007, 20:34:29 - Current meeting: Edubuntu
[09:34] <ogra> i'll need him for the TCM fixes ....
[09:34] <LaserJock> :-)
[09:34] <ogra> so dont put to much on hi,
[09:34] <LaserJock> how's TCM going?
[09:34] <ogra> *him
[09:34] <LaserJock> I won't I promise?
[09:34] <ogra> i fixed the final glitches with the package today
[09:34] <LaserJock> s/?/:-)/
[09:35] <LaserJock> sounds like big improvments since SCP
[09:35] <ogra> the vnc part on my side is missing ... but thats a trivial one ...
[09:35] <LaserJock> I haven't had a chance to use it as I don't have an LTSP setup
[09:35] <LaserJock> but the screenshots look pretty cool
[09:35] <ogra> will be fixed with the next ltsp upload i think
[09:35] <juliux> ogra, is there a working TCM in herd4?
[09:35] <ogra> juliux, kind of
[09:35] <ogra> all old features will work ...
[09:36] <ogra> there were no regressions ...
[09:36] <juliux> and the new ones also?
[09:36] <ogra> the new features still all have bugs
[09:36] <juliux> ok
[09:36] <ogra> but try them out and file them please :)
[09:36] <ogra> so we get a list together
[09:36] <juliux> we will do
[09:36] <willvdl> is TCM registered on Malone?
[09:36] <ogra> great :)
[09:36] <juliux>  we have the whole sunday for testing,)
[09:37] <ogra> willvdl, only the package i think ... not sure pete has an LP branch for it
[09:37] <willvdl> so no bzr branch, but can catch bugs
[09:37] <ogra> as long as we're only two devs its fine to play pingpong with the source package
[09:38] <ogra> but it should have a branch indeed
[09:38] <ogra> i'll talk to pete about that
[09:38] <willvdl> not really, maybe as it's released
[09:38] <ogra> oh, one other thing ... if you test, please give feedback about the new usplash :)
[09:39] <juliux> ogra, ok
[09:39] <willvdl> got a snpashot?
[09:39] <ogra> kwwii made us aa new one :)
[09:39] <willvdl> snapshot rather?
[09:39] <ogra> not of a running one, but i can upload the pic, one moment
[09:40] <willvdl> coool
[09:41] <LaserJock> is the other artwork new yet?
[09:41] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/usplash_1024_768.png
[09:41] <ogra> nope, not yet
[09:41] <LaserJock> k, I just wondered
[09:42] <LaserJock> hmm, I like the usplash
[09:42] <juliux> nice usplash
[09:42] <ogra> ken will develop an ubuntu theme weher we will just apply color changes as i understoofd his plan
[09:42] <LaserJock> the lettering looks a little too "fuzzy" for me but I love the logo
[09:42] <ogra> i'm currently hacking on svg support for ldm ...
[09:42] <LaserJock> doh
[09:42] <ogra> LaserJock, you need to scale it right :)
[09:43] <willvdl> LaserJock, zoom in
[09:43] <LaserJock> I just needed to get it at 100%, my browser was shrinking it
[09:43] <willvdl> as you mentioned it, I thought the same thing :)
[09:43] <LaserJock> ok, yeah, I really like it
[09:43] <willvdl> snap
[09:43] <ogra> we have a nice redish progressbar for that ...
[09:43] <willvdl> same style?
[09:44] <ogra> same style as ubuntu
[09:44] <ogra> just a different color
[09:44] <willvdl> I'm not mad about the 6.10 progress bar
[09:44] <ogra> test the herd4 liveCD :P
[09:44] <ogra> there you can see it in action
[09:44] <willvdl> ogra, I wish. bandwidth is a commodity here :)
[09:45] <LaserJock> willvdl: I didn't like it either
[09:45] <willvdl> fortunately I sit next to marilize so I can steal CDs :)
[09:45] <ogra> willvdl, you should get a cdimage mirror to the hbd office ...
[09:45] <ogra> rsyncs are cheaper than downnloads
[09:45] <willvdl> ogra, there is one but that's another story. perhaps not in here :)
[09:45] <ogra> ok :)
[09:46] <willvdl> I guess we're in artwork?
[09:46] <ogra> well, i guess that was artwork
[09:46] <ogra> unless someone else has anything to show :)
[09:47] <ogra> i'll talk to colin after herd4 if we can get the usplash pic into the CD bootscreen as well
[09:47] <willvdl> is that guy on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette modelled on Pete? :)
[09:47] <ogra> that urgently needs an update
[09:48] <ogra> thats from pete and his wife afaik
[09:48] <willvdl> looks a bit like him. if you squint jsut right
[09:48] <willvdl> ogra, I presume the motd thingy will wait a bit?
[09:49] <ogra> i'll look into it ... might be only a trivial confiog switch in gdm
[09:49] <ogra> if not it has to wait, yes
[09:49] <ogra> really depends how big that change might be
[09:50] <willvdl> the icons that get shipped, how are they genrally licensed?
[09:50] <ogra> i think they are gpl ...
[09:50] <ogra> not the best for icons
[09:51] <ogra> let me look it up ... one sec
[09:51] <ogra> the debian package says GPL
[09:52] <willvdl> so if I reuse on the wiki and the wiki is CC-BY-SA...
[09:53] <ogra> F.A.Q:
[09:53] <ogra> Q: What's Gartoon License?
[09:53] <ogra> A: Starting 0.5 Gartoon lincensed under GPL (read GPL.txt)
[09:53] <ogra> aha
[09:54] <willvdl> I should then just make a reference/attribution where I reuse
[09:54] <willvdl> e.g. https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu?action=show
[09:56] <willvdl> anyhoo, above link is not "live" yet but is the culmination of work I've done trying to cleanup and organise our wiki pages
[09:56] <willvdl> I think I need a "misc" section though
[09:57] <LaserJock> I think nixternal is getting the edubuntu-docs MIR written up
[09:57] <ogra> yippie
[09:58] <LaserJock> we have a few bugs to work out in the yelp frontpage
[09:58] <willvdl> now we jsut need to get the edubuntu-docs written up :)
[09:58] <LaserJock> but mdke said he'll work on that
[09:58] <ogra> i thought there is a lot
[09:58] <LaserJock> we dep on ubuntu-docs
[09:58] <willvdl> just kidding
[09:58] <ogra> we just need them imported into the package
[09:58] <LaserJock> so people will get all the Ubuntu documentation
[09:59] <willvdl> LaserJock, I can't wait to see the end result cause then I reckon I'll finally get my head around the technicalities of TBH
[09:59] <LaserJock> so the "bug" we need to fix is to remove About Ubuntu
[09:59] <LaserJock> well, it'll be interesting
[10:00] <LaserJock> but at least better than what we've had in the past
[10:00] <willvdl> one option is to make the "About" page generic to all derivitives
[10:00] <LaserJock> I think Feisty+1 will be more consistent
[10:01] <willvdl> which could possibly make sense... less duplication on common features
[10:02] <nixternal> LaserJock: I am looking at the MIR now, sorry but I have been so bogged down this week
[10:02] <nixternal> Availability:  Not yet?
[10:02] <LaserJock> the package *is* in Universe
[10:02] <LaserJock> just not the final form
[10:03] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/packages/gartoon-0.5$ apt-cache madison edubuntu-docs
[10:03] <ogra> edubuntu-docs |      0.4-1 | http://de.archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Packages
[10:03] <ogra> edubuntu-docs |      0.4-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources
[10:03] <ogra> if you need any repackaging etc, ping me
[10:03] <LaserJock> I had a look at nixternal's packaging
[10:03] <ogra> currently it installs two html files without any integration ...
[10:03] <LaserJock> built and installed it too
[10:04] <ogra> i'm fine with replacing whats there
[10:04] <LaserJock> it seems good, it's based off of the ubuntu-docs source package
[10:04] <ogra> LaserJock, if ayou are fine with the package feel free to upload
[10:04] <LaserJock> nixternal: we should check the firefox page though
[10:04] <LaserJock> ogra: k
[10:04] <ogra> the firefox page is in edubuntu-artwork
[10:04] <ogra> please check for other clashes as well
[10:05] <nixternal> LaserJock: yes, I will work on that unless you want to rock it out quickly
[10:05] <nixternal> LaserJock: whoa whoa
[10:05] <LaserJock> nixternal: what?
[10:05] <nixternal> LaserJock: the Firefox page is packaged with edubuntu-artwork
[10:06] <nixternal> so you need to fix it there, unless it gets removed from there and incorporated into the edubuntu-docs package, which of course only makes sense
[10:06] <ogra> its the only doc we have, it didnt really justify a whole package ...
[10:06] <LaserJock> nah, -artwork is fine for now
[10:06] <LaserJock> I don't want to "rock the boat" too much at this point
[10:06] <ogra> well, it should move eventually ...
[10:07] <ogra> but that must not be now if it generates extra work
[10:07] <LaserJock> anyway, we can talk details later
[10:07] <ogra> really up to you guys ... i'll do what the docteam says ;)
[10:07] <LaserJock> we need a MIR and get it going
[10:07] <ogra> right
[10:07] <LaserJock> we can fix bugs a bit later
[10:08] <ogra> just wipe the existing package with something with a higher version
[10:08] <nixternal> LaserJock / ogra: we can always start out feisty+1 with the new implementation to save issues?
[10:08] <ogra> as long as we keep a working upgrade path we can do everything ;)
[10:08] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportEdubuntuDocs <- LaserJock
[10:08] <nixternal> oh shoot, I forgot that we were in a meeting right now :) I just connected from school
[10:09] <nixternal> haha, I thought we were in #*-motu
[10:09] <ogra> well, i dont think there is much left oin the plate for the meeting
[10:09] <nixternal> LaserJock: that MIR is rough, but started :)
[10:09] <LaserJock> nixternal: I can tweak it when you're done :-)
[10:10] <nixternal> I am done for the time being if you want to tweak it a little
[10:10] <ogra> so we could as well end it here and you can go on with packaging in #edubuntu :)
[10:10] <nixternal> that is the first time I have done one, so I am expecting it to be horrible
[10:11] <ogra> well, its our own package so there wont be any external CVEs or something ...
[10:11] <nixternal> true
[10:11] <ogra> and its only docs
[10:11] <nixternal> ya, how dangerous can they be :)
[10:11] <ogra> i dont expect problems with the MIR
[10:11] <nixternal> oh wait, I have been working on them, so be careful ;p
[10:11] <ogra> ujnless iwj complains about the format ...
[10:12] <nixternal> sure, whatever that means
[10:12] <ogra> make sure to not use the plain template ... but put some formulation work in etc
[10:12] <ogra> he wants to see some effort from a MIR writer
[10:12] <nixternal> ahh
[10:12] <ogra> so you show your intrest in the package
[10:13] <ogra> (thats how he said it )
[10:13] <nixternal> very well put I must say
[10:13] <nixternal> gotta sell it!
[10:13] <ogra> heh
[10:14] <willvdl> stelis, are you in here?
[10:14] <stelis> Yes
[10:14] <willvdl> can you paste the link to the docs you're working on in here?
[10:14] <willvdl> I lost it in my logs
[10:14] <stelis> http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/edubuntu-quickstart.html
[10:15] <willvdl> thanks. sorry for the noise folks but I want to start integrating more from other peoples docs
[10:15] <nixternal> stelis: you think that your docs could be incorporated into the current Edubuntu Handbook?
[10:15] <nixternal> willvdl: I take it you are on it already :)
[10:15] <willvdl> nixternal, time :)
[10:16] <nixternal> woohoo, one less thing for me to worry over right now
[10:16] <willvdl> but if things don't go according to pplan then I will have next week relatively free
[10:16] <stelis> I'm not actually sure where the current HB is
[10:16] <ogra> instead of https://wiki.edubuntu.com/EdubuntuLtsConfParams you should rather point to /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz that will have always the recent supported list
[10:16] <ogra> stelis, ^^
[10:16] <stelis> I pulled a SVN before Xmas
[10:16] <willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Documentation/Handbook
[10:16] <stelis> ogra: Thanks
[10:17] <nixternal> stelis: the docs are stored at https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[10:17] <ogra> apart from that this is a really beautiful doc, kudos
[10:17] <stelis> Thanks
[10:17] <nixternal> more info can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
[10:17] <stelis> FWIW, the idea was to have a stopgap until there is a HB
[10:17] <nixternal> stelis: yes, it is an awesome doc, and just what we needed! As it stands, this makes the handbook almost complete, then you are my new HERO!
[10:18] <nixternal> hell, all the work you put into it, you are my hero :)
[10:18] <stelis> I guess it depends how comprehensive you want your HB to be
[10:19] <willvdl> stelis, as comprehensive as possible
[10:19] <nixternal> stelis: we shall leave that up to willvdl, I am just a docmonkey
[10:19] <willvdl> as as many audience as possible.
[10:19] <willvdl> v. ambitious
[10:19] <stelis> This Quickstart is enough to get somebody going
[10:19] <nixternal> they feed me bananas and I type, quite horribly I might add
[10:19] <stelis> The text is complete enough as is
[10:19] <stelis> Bananas are good :)
[10:19] <willvdl> nixternal, as long as you can fix my broken links I'm happy
[10:19] <nixternal> willvdl: what broken links?
[10:20] <willvdl> you'll see
[10:20] <nixternal> lol
[10:20] <willvdl> my docbook is still rusty and frayed
[10:20] <nixternal> ahh
[10:20] <willvdl> stelis, I wanted to this week but hopefully next week I can dedicate hours to integrating your stuff
[10:21] <stelis> OK.
[10:21] <willvdl> now that I've got the wiki under wraps
[10:21] <stelis> FWIW, this works as a standalone
[10:21] <stelis> So you could just add screenshots
[10:22] <stelis> I'm conscious that time is short
[10:23] <stelis> But feel free to use it as you need
[10:23] <stelis> There's some other pieces in the same directory
[10:23] <willvdl> stelis, thanks to you we now have options
[10:23] <stelis> I don't have lots of time myself
[10:24] <willvdl> I will, hopefully, up until march
[10:24] <stelis> But I could write up some Release Notes or a few sections of this and that
[10:25] <willvdl> nixternal, who normally does our finals for the release notes?
[10:25] <nixternal> willvdl: dunno, but I can probably work something out for you since I do the Kubuntu ones
[10:26] <willvdl> I got very confused with the old releases: there where wiki versions, docbook ones, release notes, install notes, release announcements...
[10:27] <willvdl> ogra, clearly you have enough time to do that :)
[10:27] <ogra> :P
[10:29] <willvdl> ok, cool. I'll work something out with stelis and find a path of least resistance
[10:31] <willvdl> shall we wrap up?
[10:31] <ogra> yeah
[10:31] <willvdl> just want to punt my mockup for https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu?action=show again
[10:31] <willvdl> shamelessly :)
[10:31] <willvdl> I will work on maing it easier and easier to read as we go
[10:32] <willvdl> something like henrik's testing page
[10:32] <ogra> yep
[10:32] <ogra> ok, any other business ?
[10:32] <willvdl> and since we normally end with community: UES Sevilla!!!
[10:32] <ogra> going once
[10:32] <ogra> going twice
[10:32] <ogra> COME TO SEVILLA !!!!
[10:33] <ogra> adjourned !
[10:33] <ogra> thanks all
[10:33] <willvdl> sweet.
[10:33] <willvdl> sorry for late minutes.. I'll get these ones in as well