[12:27] <sistpoty> Lutin: actually linda/lintian doesn't tell me anything about mlt
[12:27] <sistpoty> Lutin: and the package looks nice
[12:27] <sistpoty> Lutin: well apart from the linda easter egg *g*
[12:27] <lionel> geser: you mark #76967 as fix released, did you notice that it FTBS on ia64 ? (I have really no idea of the problem)
[12:28] <Lutin> sistpoty: the linda easter egg 
[12:28] <Lutin> ?
[12:29] <sistpoty> Lutin: is it valentine's day in your tz? then just run linda
[12:30] <Lutin> sistpoty: ahhh nice :)
[12:30] <Lutin> sistpoty: fine if you have no problem with it. 
[12:31] <Lutin> maybe it was hapening because I was running the edgy linda on packages builded in a feisty pbuilder 
[12:31] <sistpoty> Lutin: well, maybe... feisty ones are all quiet here.
[12:31] <Lutin> sistpoty: cool then ;
[12:31] <Lutin> :) *
[12:32] <sistpoty> btw.: any c++ guru around, who could happen to know how I could find out the typename of the type a pointer points to?
[12:34] <slomo> sistpoty: almost no c++ knowledge here... but afaik you need rtti
[12:34] <slomo> sistpoty: http://www.cpp-tutor.de/cpp/le16/le16_03.htm looks good
[12:36] <sistpoty> slomo: thanks for the hint, but I guess rtti is not exactly what I need...
[12:38] <slomo> sistpoty: what's the difference to what you want? :)
[12:39] <sistpoty> slomo: actually I want to convert a std::list of a derived class to a std::list from a base class... give me a sec and I'll put sample code on a pastebin
[12:39] <sistpoty> slomo: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5639/
[12:40] <sistpoty> slomo: and I don't want to simply reinterpret_cast (both are lists of pointers, so that *should* work), because I want to know if I change my class hierarchy to be no longer compatible during compile time
[12:42] <slomo> sistpoty: hm what about the n other casts of c++? ;) sorry, i don't really know much about c++... it just looks confusing to me ;)
[12:43] <sistpoty> slomo: the problem is that the lists are distinct types, so I can either reinterpret_cast them or not cast them at all :( (so I try the trick with the template to look if the elements can be type-converted implicitely)
[12:44] <Lutin> LaserJock: could you have a look at mlt on revu when you have some time ?
[12:51] <sistpoty> slomo: ha, got it :) http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5643/
[12:52] <slomo> sistpoty: congrats :) what are you doing btw?
[12:53] <sistpoty> slomo: writing my thesis... a VHDL to c compiler for the faumachine project
[12:53] <sistpoty> slomo: the idea is to translate e.g. a pci-card modelled in vhdl into c-code that can be used as a component in the virtual machine
[12:54] <slomo> sistpoty: wah, vhdl... the ugliest language i ever saw :) but other than that this sounds like fun
[12:54] <sistpoty> slomo: vhdl is *really* ugly... :(
[12:55] <sistpoty> btw.: http://faumachine.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/FAUmachine/fauhdlc/
[01:05] <ThunderFox> Yeah, I do agree with everyone, VHDL is a little obsolete in it's design.  However, getting engineers to stop using Fortran is dificult enough.
[01:06] <LaserJock> but Fortran rocks
[01:06] <ThunderFox> *laugh* for limited use . . . newer structured scripting languages are better.
[01:07] <LaserJock> tell that to my advisor ;-)
[01:07] <ThunderFox> Fortran was revolutionary in it's time . . .  I guess that's when your advisor was young.
[01:07] <ThunderFox> ;-)
[01:07] <ThunderFox> It's like I have an affinity for c-form basic variants.
[01:08] <ThunderFox> I know they suck, but I can't help it.
[01:08] <ThunderFox> I grew up with later DOS variants, there is no helping it.
[01:10] <ThunderFox> Anyways, has anyone started considering making a Universe package for the Doom engine OdaMex yet?
[01:10] <ThunderFox> It recently got it's first public release (Mixed license issues prevented it earlier.  They didn't want a Doom Legacy issue set.)
[01:14] <crimsun> ThunderFox: no, but feel free.
[01:16] <ThunderFox> Good, I'm sure the folks back at the OdaMex community will like that as a contribution.  It should get them lots of good developers.
[01:17] <ThunderFox> Should I put it in /usr/local, where it is designed for using hacked level files, and is considered a beta-stability Alpha (prevents glitches with degunkers, and makes degunking easier if packages switch out uncleanly)
[01:17] <ajmitch> never put any packaged stuff in /usr/local
[01:21] <tsmithe> now i've got my membership, i'm gonna work really hard to get motu
[01:21] <ThunderFox> ajmitch, Yes, I noticed most packages use a remote /usr/local directory storage if they look for extra binaries there.
[01:21] <ThunderFox> ajmitch, they tend to only create the directory in those cases.
[01:22] <ThunderFox> ajmitch, thanks for the tip.
[01:24] <pochu> hi guys! I have a small question: what's the best way to not apply a patch (.patch system) in debian/patches, rename it? and if so, what's the best?
[01:25] <Lutin> pochu: why would you want not to apply a patch ?
[01:25] <pochu> Lutin: fixed upstream
[01:25] <Lutin> pochu: just delete it then
[01:25] <sistpoty> pochu: fixed upstream --> remove the patch
[01:25] <pochu> Lutin: and of course I say that in the changelog, right? :)
[01:26] <Lutin> pochu: sure
[01:26] <pochu> thanks :)
[01:26] <Lutin> np :)
[01:38] <pochu> another question: if a patch applied in a file which no longer exists now, what should I do? (it's about a .desktop entry)
[01:38] <Lutin> pochu: nuke the patch :)
[01:39] <Lutin> pochu: if doesn't apply to any actual file, there's no point keeping it
[01:39] <pochu> Lutin: ok, thanks :)
[01:40] <Lutin> pochu: you might want ot make sure the 'issue' hasn't been moved elsewhere though ;)
[01:41] <pochu> Lutin: I think that was a desktop entry, which was on the source code, however I think now it's managed into debian/ subdirectory, is that possible? but that file doesn't exist anymore, now it has a menu entry
[01:42] <Lutin> pochu: menu entries are for debian, you need a desktop file for ubuntu. if none is provided in the upstream tarball, create one in debian/whatever.desktop and install it in /usr/share/applications :)
[01:43] <pochu> Lutin: I've just found it! It's been moved into misc/ directory. The problem was that nautilus didn't show the correct name, but the app name ?
[01:43] <pochu> instead of listen.desktop, it says Listen Music Player
[01:43] <pochu> hehe
[01:44] <pochu> but an ls in the terminal shows listen.desktop :)
[01:44] <pochu> I'll see if this is well now, or if the patch should still be applied, thanks for your help Lutin !
[01:44] <Lutin> pochu: nautilus diplays the 'name' field of the desktop instead of the actual filename :)
[01:45] <Adri2000> pochu: you are working on the new upstream release of listen?
[01:45] <pochu> Adri2000: yes, but I'm very noob, so if you are also doing it, do it, as I'm doing it just for learning
[01:45] <pochu> Adri2000: but if you want to review my work, you can do it :)
[01:46] <Adri2000> yep, and upload it, if you file an UVF exception request and if it is accepted, no problem :)
[01:47] <pochu> Adri2000: ok :)
[01:48] <pochu> do you know why de .desktop entry should not have the "Encoding=UTF-8" line?
[01:49] <Adri2000> should not?
[01:50] <pochu> Adri2000: the patch of the desktop entry removes it, don't know why (I know about nothing hehe)
[01:51] <Lutin> can't see th reason either .. ubuntu has been using utf8 for ages
[01:51] <pochu> Lutin: sure :)
[01:51] <pochu> there is nothing else interesting in that patch, do I drop it? I think I should :)
[01:52] <Adri2000> (testing with a .desktop file without Encoding) gtodo.desktop: error: required key "Encoding" not found
[01:52] <Adri2000> desktop-file-validate says that
[01:52] <Lutin> pochu: what does the changelog says about that patch ?
[01:52] <pochu> the other things are typos (fixed upstream)
[01:53] <pochu> + Added 15_desktop.patch to improve desktop entry
[01:53] <pochu> it changes the description and that
[01:53] <pochu> and an [fr]  comment which no longer exist in the new upstream version
[01:54] <pochu> do you want me to put the patch in a pastebin?
[01:55] <Lutin> pochu: no need to do so ;)
[01:56] <pochu> ok, then I'll drop it. thanks a lot :)
[01:58] <Lutin> pochu: you can check the the desktop file with desktop-file-validate if it's ok
[01:58] <Lutin> to see if it's ok*
[02:00] <pochu> Lutin: thanks! is this a semicolon? ";"
[02:01] <Lutin> pochu: can't tell, I never remember that
[02:01] <pochu> Lutin: hehe, np :)
[02:01] <Lutin> pochu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicolon
[02:02] <pochu> Lutin: hehe, thanks :)
[02:02] <Lutin> np ;)
[02:02] <Lutin> well, need some sleep. g'night guys
[02:03] <Adri2000> me too
[02:03] <Adri2000> night
[02:03] <Lutin> 'night Adri2000 
[02:03] <pochu> night guys! :)
[02:03] <Lutin> thanks
[02:03] <pochu> and thanks 4 your help :)
[02:03] <Lutin> np :)
[02:28] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:28] <LaserJock> hi bddebian 
[02:28] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock, what's happening?
[02:29] <LaserJock> ohh, I think I'm going to head home
[02:30] <LaserJock> try to get some food and recover from the day before the MOTU meeting
[02:30] <bddebian> Damn, an MOTU meeting?
[02:31] <bddebian> Heya siretart
[02:31] <LaserJock> it's at 10:00UTC
[02:31] <LaserJock> so something like 5am for you maybe
[02:32] <bddebian> Uhm, that ain't gonna happen :-(
[02:32] <LaserJock> 2am for me
[02:32] <bddebian> Eeks
[02:32] <LaserJock> oh come on
[02:33] <LaserJock> I made a 4am Launchpad meeting
[02:33] <bddebian> Well 2am I could do 'cause I'm usually up
[02:33] <bddebian> 5am, forget it, I'm like the dead
[02:33] <LaserJock> surely you can suck it up and do 5am ;-)
[02:33] <ajmitch> take one for the team
[02:33] <bddebian> Gah, I'm pretty useless anymore anyway
[02:34] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it's really at 2AM for you?
[02:34] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:34] <ajmitch> bddebian: don't make me swear at you
[02:34] <LaserJock> bddebian: we're all pretty useless
[02:34] <LaserJock> but we keep trying
[02:34] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you're in the pacific timezone?
[02:34] <LaserJock> and somehow it seems to work in the end
[02:34] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yep
[02:34] <bddebian> ajmitch: C'mon, I don't think I've ever heard you swear
[02:35] <ajmitch> bddebian: I'm sorely tempted at times :)
[02:35] <LaserJock> nah, I'm pretty close to San Fransicko
[02:36] <LaserJock> I have to finish some glade/c++ stuff tonight
[02:36] <LaserJock> so I'll probably be up late anyway :/
[02:36] <bddebian> Whoa, go LaserJock.. I though you weren't gonna get in that deep? :-)
[02:37] <LaserJock> it's really small
[02:37] <LaserJock> but since I have to learn glade/gtk/C++ concurently to do it it's been taking some time
[02:37] <bddebian> LaserJock: Now, wanna help me with glibc? :-)
[02:37] <LaserJock> lol
[02:38] <LaserJock> I'm just figuring how to put buttons in a GUI
[02:38] <LaserJock> I don't dare touch the real stuff ;-)
[02:38] <LaserJock> anyway, off to home
[02:38] <bddebian> Gah, come on.. :-)
[02:38] <bddebian> Later man
[02:38] <LaserJock> the wife is waiting
[02:38] <zul> heh ive heard ajmitch swear
[02:39] <LaserJock> "Holy Battle Cat He-man!"
[02:39] <ajmitch> zul: never
[02:39] <bddebian> LaserJock: hehe
[02:39] <ajmitch> sigh, valentines day today
[02:40] <ajmitch> how sickening
[02:40] <RAOF> I'll just ping again.  Anyone want to provide the second ACK to http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4323 ?
[02:40] <LaserJock> good thing we had a valentines weekend
[02:40] <bddebian> ajmitch: Did you send me flowers? :)
[02:40] <LaserJock> this is the only day I'll be home before 7pm this week
[02:40] <ajmitch> bddebian: hah!
[02:40] <ajmitch> bddebian: not going to happen
[02:41] <sistpoty> RAOF: I'll take a look
[02:41] <RAOF> Yay!
[02:41] <bddebian> RAOF: Don't get too excited, sistpoty will catch all the shit I missed :-)
[02:42] <RAOF> Even better.  A cleaner package for when I get around to posting a Debian ITP
[02:43] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh damn.  
[02:43] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'd forgotten about that, with regards to having to leave the house today
[02:44] <TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee, ajmitch, bddebian.
[02:44] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: yeah, well, you can probably avoid the worst of it
[02:44] <bddebian> Hi TheMuso
[02:44] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: hopefully
[02:45] <Hobbsee> hey TheMuso :)
[02:46] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you could always send bddebian some flowers :)
[02:46] <bddebian> hehe
[02:48] <TheMuso> Valentine's day is very much a commercial thing IMO.
[02:48] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe
[02:48] <ajmitch> definitely
[02:51] <pochu> hi guys! I have a small question: with .patch patch system, should I apply them manually before building? I think so, but I'm not sure...
[02:52] <ajmitch> depends on debian/rules, if it has a patch system to apply them
[02:52] <sistpoty> RAOF: looks good, uploading
[02:53] <pochu> ajmitch: it hasn't, they are just diffs
[02:53] <RAOF> sistpoty: Thanks muchly.
[02:53] <crimsun> nixternal: / Amaranth: commit 0a70404517448b8d3176f47798765baad52a6c70: UBUNTU: sound/pci/hda/: More Conexant HDA fixes (patch_conexant.c)
[02:53] <ajmitch> pochu: no matter whether the patches are just diffs, what does debian/rules have?
[02:53] <Amaranth> crimsun: is that after -8?
[02:53] <crimsun> Amaranth: will be, yes
[02:54] <pochu> ajmitch: I think it hasn't any patch system
[02:54] <Amaranth> alright, because -8 broke it :)
[02:54] <ajmitch> crimsun: post herd-4?
[02:54] <crimsun> ajmitch: yes
[02:55] <pochu> ajmitch: while building: if [ "reverse-patches" = "reverse-patches" ] ; then rm -f debian/stamp-patched; fi
[02:55] <pochu> patches: debian/patches/21_listen_desktop_entry.patch
[02:55] <pochu> Patch debian/patches/21_listen_desktop_entry.patch is not applied.
[02:56] <pochu> mmm: Build-Depends: cdbs
[02:56] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: me too
[02:56] <ajmitch> pochu: so it has some patch system at least
[02:56] <pochu> ajmitch: it seems like that :)
[02:56] <ajmitch> probably simple-patchsys
[02:57] <pochu> ajmitch: don't know how it works :(
[02:57] <Amaranth> pochu: simple-patchsys is just drop a patch in debian/patches/ and go
[02:58] <pochu> Amaranth: then it should be applied... going to ensure :)
[02:58] <Amaranth> make sure you name them 01-patch-name.patch and etc
[02:58] <Amaranth> so they get applied in a sane order
[02:58] <ajmitch> important if the patches overlap
[02:58] <ajmitch> not so important otherwise
[02:59] <Amaranth> ajmitch: if they don't overlap just name them all 01-* :)
[02:59] <pochu> Amaranth: if there is just one patch, should it be 01? or can be other number, as 10?
[02:59] <ajmitch> pochu: whatever you feel like
[02:59] <Amaranth> pochu: i'd go with 01
[02:59] <ajmitch> 01 is best
[02:59] <Amaranth> never know when you'll want to add more
[02:59] <Amaranth> want/need
[03:00] <ajmitch> easier to add 02 than 10003
[03:00] <ajmitch> :)
[03:00] <pochu> there were another 01, and I removed it, so I don't know if I should use 01 or other number :)
[03:00] <pochu> hehe
[03:00] <ajmitch> it's just for patch ordering, nothing magical
[03:00] <pochu> ajmitch: ok :)
[03:01] <pochu> it's called 21_listen_desktop_entry.patch (a little large) :(
[03:01] <Amaranth> nah, that's about average
[03:01] <pochu> I'm gonna rename it, but it's fine (if hasn't been applied)
[03:01] <pochu> it*
[03:01] <Amaranth> but if the package is listen i'd call it 01_add_desktop_file.patch
[03:01] <Amaranth> or something like that
[03:02] <pochu> :)
[03:03] <pochu> any idea why it isn't applied? :S
[03:06] <pochu> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk
[03:06] <pochu> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[03:06] <pochu> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk
[03:06] <pochu> that's in debian/rules
[03:06] <pochu> you were right :)
[03:07] <RAOF> pochu: It's possible that the patch has been previously unapplied, but the patch-stamp file hasn't been removed.
[03:07] <RAOF> That's happend to me a bit.
[03:08] <pochu> RAOF: I've added the patch, and I haven't applied it. I thought it would be applied while building. What should I do then?
[03:08] <RAOF> It depends on the rest of the environment, I think.
[03:09] <RAOF> I haven't used simple-patchsys before, but I have used dpatch, and that' s similar.
[03:09] <RAOF> Maybe if you pastebin the entire output of trying to build the package, it'd help?
[03:09] <pochu> RAOF: sure :)
[03:11] <pochu> hi fernando :)
[03:11] <pochu> RAOF: http://pastebin.ca/354639 :)
[03:12] <fernando> hi pochu =)
[03:14] <RAOF> pochu: I don't suppose you could pastebin that in English? :(
[03:14] <pochu> RAOF: sorry :(
[03:14] <pochu> RAOF: any idea to get the output in english? :)
[03:15] <pochu> RAOF: I don't want to translate line by line :)
[03:15] <pochu> hehe
[03:15] <RAOF> I *think* you can set an environment variable.
[03:15] <RAOF> I'm not sure which.
[03:15] <RAOF> it might be something like LOCALE="C" dpkg-buildpackge, or something.
[03:16] <fernando> export LC_ALL=C; dpkg-build...
[03:17] <fernando> ;-)
[03:17] <RAOF> Ta.
[03:18] <Amaranth> arg libwnck got updated
[03:18] <ajmitch> Amaranth: is that bad?
[03:18] <RAOF> Have those patches to make compiz work made it upstream yet?
[03:18] <Amaranth> yes it upgraded over my version with viewport support
[03:19] <Amaranth> RAOF: no but i've fixed all the problems the maintainer had
[03:19] <RAOF> They're still bitrotting on bugzilla, then :(
[03:20] <Amaranth> if i don't get a response before the feature freeze for 2.20 i'll try to force it
[03:20] <pochu> wow! fernando thanks :)
[03:21] <fernando> pochu: you're welcome
[03:22] <pochu> RAOF: here it is :) http://pastebin.ca/354660
[03:22] <RAOF> Ta
[03:23] <RAOF> pochu: That seems to have worked fine.
[03:23] <RAOF> It tries to unapply the patch first, but it's not applied.  Which is ok.
[03:23] <RAOF> Then it builds the source package.
[03:23] <RAOF> Then it applies the patch, and builds the binary.
[03:24] <RAOF> Lines 64 & 65.
[03:25] <pochu> mmm...
[03:25] <pochu> RAOF: sure, it seems to have been applied :)
[03:26] <RAOF> Oh, and I notice that docbook2x-man doesn't segfault for you.
[03:26] <RAOF> Be careful when building it in a pbuilder, I had problems with it segfaulting for no obvious reson.
[03:27] <pochu> RAOF: I don't know how to use pbuilder :)
[03:27] <pochu> RAOF: I think it hasn't been applied...
[03:28] <RAOF> pochu: Why not?
[03:28] <pochu> the listen.desktop entry in /usr/share/applications/listen.desktop looks like the upstream one...
[03:28] <pochu> maybe the patch isn't right...
[03:29] <TheMuso> lol at linda
[03:31] <RAOF> pochu: It seems the build process probably updates listen.desktop.  About line 124
[03:31] <RAOF> And 121.
[03:31] <RAOF> You need to patch listen.desktop.in, if you're not already doing that.
[03:31] <pochu> mmm
[03:32] <pochu> RAOF: hehe, thanks! I was patching listen.desktop, instead of listen.desktop.in :)
[03:32] <RAOF> (I've been bitten by that *so* many times)
[03:32] <pochu> RAOF: going to try that right now!!
[03:32] <pochu> hehe
[03:32] <RAOF> NP
[03:35] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[04:03] <keescook> who do I need to talk to about universe UVFEs?
[04:03] <keescook> I want to get libfilter-template-perl into Ubuntu, and it was recently added to Debian... gah!
[04:07] <ajmitch> keescook: motu-uvf, file a bug & assign to them
[04:07] <ajmitch> and uvf exceptions aren't needed for new packages yet
[04:07] <ajmitch> so you should be fine :)
[04:07] <keescook> ajmitch: really?  uvf universe on the schedule says the 8th??
[04:08] <ajmitch> yeah, but new packages can get in later, since they tend not to break other packages
[04:09] <ajmitch> so you should be able to get away with just a sync request & some fast talking
[04:17] <bddebian> OMG can the news PLEASE shut up about Anna Nicole Smith
[04:18] <jdong> bddebian: didn't she stay at a hard rock hotel or something?
[04:19] <bddebian> I don't really care.. :)
[04:19] <jdong> oh well
[04:21] <TheMuso> bddebian: Its in the news here.
[04:21] <TheMuso> as well.
[04:21] <ajmitch> TheMuso: it's in the news everywhere
[04:21] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Right.
[04:22] <ajmitch> no, you really don't
[04:22] <bddebian> jdong: Believe me, no, you don't :-)
[04:22] <jdong> lol
[04:22] <jdong> ok
[04:22] <jdong> good enough for me
[04:23] <bddebian> It's one of the few things even I'm ashamed of the US
[04:23] <TheMuso> heh me neither.
[04:26] <LaserJock> ajmitch, TheMuso: you guys are missing out
[04:26] <bddebian> Hah, not hardly
[04:26] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I'm sure I am
[04:26] <ajmitch> but I don't care at all :)
[04:26] <LaserJock> I don't either
[04:27] <LaserJock> and I don't see much news
[04:27] <TheMuso> I don't care, so I don't want to know.
[04:27] <LaserJock> and I still can't get away from her
[04:28] <TheMuso> Ok. Time to see what jobs are around that I don't want to do. :)
[04:30] <ajmitch> lots of them!
[04:31] <TheMuso> ajmitch: I am referring to employment related searching.
[04:32] <ajmitch> oh right
[04:32] <ajmitch> I thought you were volunteer to do various ubuntu jobs
[04:32] <jdong> LOL
[04:32] <jdong> TheMuso: you mean you're not merging reiser4 into the kernel?
[04:33] <TheMuso> jdong: I am not that skilled.
[04:33] <TheMuso> And for the record, I stay way from reiserfs of any kind.
[04:33] <jdong> pfft :)
[04:33] <TheMuso> s/way/away/
[04:33] <jdong> so he killed a wife or two....
[04:33] <jdong> :)
[04:33] <jdong> you've done worse
[04:33] <jdong> everytime you touch a non-open device God kills 3 penguins
[04:34] <TheMuso> ROFLMAO
[04:34] <jdong> ajmitch: it'll stop when I collapse from exhaustion
[04:34] <jdong> *thud*
[04:34] <ajmitch> oh what a shame
[04:35] <jdong> that's what she said!
[04:35] <jdong> (ok sorry sorry I'll stop)
[04:38] <TheMuso> c
[04:38] <TheMuso> bah
[04:49] <pochu> night!
[04:49] <RAOF> night
[04:49] <RAOF> Hope the desktop.in patch worked :)
[04:50] <pochu> RAOF: sure, bug #84946
[04:50] <pochu> RAOF: thanks a lot :)
[04:50] <pochu> RAOF: I hope the archive admins accept the upload :)
[04:50] <pochu> hehe
[05:46] <ajmitch> ah, finished work for the day
[06:11] <Q-FUNK> well, pretty nice office space they have, at the ubuntu tech.support office
[06:11] <LaserJock> in Montreal?
[06:12] <ajmitch> yeah, there are some photos of it online
[06:12] <Q-FUNK> yup
[06:12] <Q-FUNK> I just got back from there
[06:12] <ajmitch> Q-FUNK: you been visiting, or interviewing for a position?
[06:12] <Q-FUNK> visiting
[06:12] <ajmitch> nice
[06:12] <ajmitch> hi viviersf 
[06:13] <Q-FUNK> although rumour has it that they do have more openings coming up
[06:13] <nixternal> boo
[06:13] <ajmitch> hey nixternal 
[06:13] <nixternal> hiya ajmitch 
[06:14] <ajmitch> heh
[06:14] <nixternal> I have had my head stuck in code all night and just realised I have a chapter due tomorrow for Kubuntu :\
[06:14] <nixternal> argh, and the release notes for Herd 4
[06:14] <ajmitch> ouch
[06:16] <jwhitlark> imbrandon, wasup?
[06:17] <jwhitlark> wasn't there a motu meeting soon?
[06:17] <viviersf> alo ajmitch
[06:18] <Lathiat> yeh in 5 hours i think
[06:19] <LaserJock> hi nixternal 
[06:19] <jwhitlark> tnx
[06:20] <jwhitlark> Laserjock, in the last 2 days, I haven't signed on when you haven't already been on, and I've been working waaaayyy too  hard...
[06:20] <jwhitlark> don't you ever sleep?
[06:20] <ajmitch> of course not
[06:21] <ajmitch> it's LaserJock 
[06:21] <ajmitch> LaserJock is not human
[06:21] <jwhitlark> I guess so.
[06:22] <LaserJock> jwhitlark: me?
[06:22] <crimsun> of course, one-third of the motu trinity.
[06:23] <LaserJock> well the last few days I've been on ~20 hrs/day
[06:23] <ajmitch> sick
[06:23] <LaserJock> well, I gues more like 18
[06:23] <ajmitch> still sick
[06:23] <LaserJock> anyway, way too much
[06:23] <ajmitch> yeah
[06:23] <crimsun> I think lj should be on the mc
[06:23] <ajmitch> I agree
[06:23] <LaserJock> lol
[06:23] <jwhitlark> heh
[06:24] <ajmitch> dunce cap you mean
[06:24] <LaserJock> heh
[06:24] <crimsun> ouch, apport is killing performance here
[06:24] <LaserJock> really? how so?
[06:24] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I hope you'll spend time with your wife tomorrow :)
[06:24] <crimsun> I'm getting _severe_ cpu spikes
[06:25] <LaserJock> ajmitch: actually not, we both have a bunch of stuff to do, I won't see her till ~ 10:00pm
[06:25] <ajmitch> aw
[06:25] <crimsun> audio hiccups despite RT privileges, visible mouse cursor hitching and the like
[06:25] <LaserJock> ajmitch: we did Valentines this weekend
[06:26] <ajmitch> he's in about his 6th year (or more) of his phd 
[06:26] <LaserJock> crimsun: that's no fun
[06:26] <LaserJock> I'm starting to see the light
[06:26] <nixternal> hiya LaserJock 
[06:26] <LaserJock> but it requires more time on research and les on Ubuntu
[06:26] <ajmitch> so is he - only another year or so of experiments :)
[06:27] <LaserJock> my advisor started seriously talking about what I need to do to finish up
[06:27] <LaserJock> that's a pretty major step for me
[06:27] <ajmitch> he's not only married & studying, but has 4 kids as well
[06:27] <LaserJock> yikes
[06:27] <ajmitch> that's a good step
[06:28] <LaserJock> it's just hard when I'd rather be working here than on research :/
[06:28] <ajmitch> temptations lie in wait..
[06:29] <crimsun> you have to be glutton for punishment if you enjoy bug triaging more than research ;)
[06:29] <crimsun> to be a, even
[06:30] <LaserJock> depends on the research actually
[06:30] <ajmitch> heh
[06:30] <LaserJock> my problem is I'll have a PhD and never get to do the research I signed on to do
[06:31] <ajmitch> that's ok
[06:31] <ajmitch> you can be a fulltime ubuntu celebrity
[06:32] <ajmitch> crimsun: going to try & get to UDS Sevilla?
[06:32] <crimsun> can't, time already spoken for
[06:32] <ajmitch> I thought it may be
[06:33] <ajmitch> you'll be fairly busy over the next few months?
[06:33] <crimsun> yeah
[06:33] <LaserJock> I'm still not sure
[06:34] <LaserJock> a free trip to Spain for Ubuntu stuff is awefully hard to pass up
[06:34] <LaserJock> but I need to sort of step back and focus on research and home
[06:34] <LaserJock> so I don't know if it would be a good idea or not
[06:36] <LaserJock> on the other hand, one of these days I'll have a "real" job
[06:36] <LaserJock> so I should travel while I can ;-)
[06:36] <ajmitch> at least you'd get sponsored to go :)
[06:36] <ajmitch> since you're active
[06:36] <Amaranth> I don't have a chance at being sponsored this time
[06:37] <Amaranth> and i'm still in some financial pain from the last trip
[06:37] <Amaranth> too many $100 cab rides
[06:38] <ajmitch> yeah, lots of pain
[06:38] <crimsun> we need an motu/uds fund ;)
[06:38] <Amaranth> hehe
[06:38] <ajmitch> pass the hat round on planet ubuntu ;)
[06:39] <Amaranth> or get the things i toy with included in ubuntu ;)
[06:39] <ajmitch> crimsun: maybe the motu council can setup a fund & select worthy people :)
[06:39] <crimsun> that's an idea :)
[06:39] <ajmitch> (which would exclude the council members from being selected)
[06:39] <crimsun> aye
[06:40] <ajmitch> there was a rather long discussion in the CC meeting about conflicts of interest, etc
[06:40] <ajmitch> & there were 5 people nominated for 3 CC places
[06:41] <ajmitch> (dholbach, mdke, mikeb, jsgotangco, burgandavia)
[06:41] <LaserJock> I've dicusses a MOTU fund for sponsorships and other needs before with others
[06:41] <Amaranth> So, my goal for feisty+1 is compiz being installed by default and being almost completely indistinguishable from metacity except for the extra "bling".
[06:41] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, especially for things like hardware for those that really need it
[06:41] <Amaranth> Stating this here so you can make fun of me when I fail.
[06:41] <ajmitch> Amaranth: I'd expect that anyway for feisty
[06:41] <ajmitch> Amaranth: why isn't it like that right now?
[06:42] <Amaranth> ajmitch: driver issues and stability problems
[06:42] <ajmitch> ok, we know that drivers suck
[06:42] <Amaranth> i think nearly all of the stability problems are, in fact, driver issus
[06:42] <Amaranth> issues*
[06:42] <ajmitch> what differences are there between compiz & metacity in some of the functionality like viewports?
[06:42] <ajmitch> or all the little things?
[06:42] <Amaranth> all the little things
[06:43] <Amaranth> doesn't help that ideas for the window placement code are coming from kwin
[06:43] <ajmitch> I'd welcome compiz if it integrates seamlessly & doesn't get in the way
[06:43] <ajmitch> (ie, no burning windows)
[06:43] <Amaranth> apparently since kwin itself has a bunch of different window placement options
[06:43] <Amaranth> ajmitch: sudo apt-get install desktop-effects, it's like that now
[06:43] <ajmitch> it'd be nice, if it worked properly
[06:43] <Amaranth> it even uses plain old workspaces by default and uses every metacity settings that applies to it
[06:44] <ajmitch> & doesn't cause unclickable hidden windows or other stupid things
[06:44] <Amaranth> don't have minimized windows when you start it :)
[06:44] <ajmitch> well that's a bit stupid
[06:44] <Amaranth> indeed
[06:44] <Amaranth> the worst case is when it throws a window offscreen
[06:45] <ajmitch> it's always rhythmbox that tends to disappear on my laptop
[06:45] <ajmitch> or on my desktop..
[06:45] <Amaranth> probably went offscreen
[06:45] <ajmitch> "Desktop effects do not work with xinerama"
[06:45] <ajmitch> real useful
[06:45] <Amaranth> that's a lie
[06:45] <Amaranth> 0.3.6 has xinerama support, last time i checked
[06:45] <ajmitch> that's what it claims
[06:45] <ajmitch> and so I can't turn it on
[06:46] <ajmitch> this is just boring old nvidia twinview
[06:46] <Amaranth> you can, just not with the big button
[06:46] <ajmitch> no real xinerama
[06:46] <ajmitch> I don't want to have to fiddle to turn it on :)
[06:46] <Amaranth> turning it on doesn't register it in autostart anyway
[06:46] <ajmitch> I want it to be like things in OSX, and Just Work
[06:47] <Amaranth> but it does make it restart when it dies
[06:47] <ajmitch> not be like the typical half-assed linux desktop :)
[06:47] <LaserJock> :-)
[06:47] <Amaranth> which is real fun, right now it restarts itself no matter _how_ you kill it
[06:47] <Amaranth> metacity --replace? screw that, compiz is coming back on
[06:47] <LaserJock> ajmitch: you should try science apps for linux ;-)
[06:48] <Amaranth> how is gchemutils?
[06:48] <LaserJock> Amaranth: good actually
[06:48] <LaserJock> I'm working on that tonight actually
[06:48] <Amaranth> ajmitch: anyway, my goal is Just Works
[06:48] <LaserJock> worked last night til 3am on it
[06:49] <Amaranth> and a sane UI with at most 5 tabs to configure it
[06:49] <ajmitch> yeah, I'm trying to minimise UI clutter :)
[06:49] <LaserJock> but we are planning a release for the weekend or next week
[06:49] <Amaranth> LaserJock: cool
[06:49] <Amaranth> i lost interest once i couldn't work on the shiny bits :P
[06:49] <LaserJock> hehe
[06:49] <Amaranth> was only working on gallium because learning cairo was _fun_
[06:50] <LaserJock> I'm learning C++ and a bit of GTK
[06:50] <Amaranth> and i get off on efficient XML parsing ;)
[06:50] <LaserJock> well, we do quite a bit of XML stuf
[06:50] <LaserJock> not sure how efficient it is
[06:50] <Amaranth> i'm sure it's pretty good
[06:51] <Amaranth> the real problem is I/O
[06:51] <LaserJock> but gchemtable is a heck of a lot faster than kalzium
[06:51] <Amaranth> but kalzium does a lot of neat things
[06:51] <LaserJock> on the other hand kalzium has some wicked cool stuff
[06:51] <LaserJock> ;-)
[06:51] <Amaranth> did you see the new element layout?
[06:51] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:51] <Amaranth> oh, i think you blogged about it
[06:51] <LaserJock> me neither
[06:52] <LaserJock> I think I did
[06:52] <Amaranth> that reminds me, how do i get myself on planet ubuntu?
[06:52] <Amaranth> think i might blog more if i knew more than 100 people were reading it
[06:52] <LaserJock> Amaranth: follow the direction
[06:52] <LaserJock> +s
[06:52] <Amaranth> and those 100 people are using RSS clients to poke it
[06:52] <Amaranth> what directions?
[06:52] <LaserJock> whatever
[06:52] <Amaranth> it was fun when everyone was reading it looking for new pymusique info
[06:52] <Amaranth> or new alacarte releases
[06:53] <LaserJock> we need to bask in ajmitch's wisdom
[06:53] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I'm sure you'll just drown in the depth of my wisdom
[06:53] <LaserJock> blogging is good for people who want to talk and not work
[06:53] <ajmitch> if you could drown in something barely ankle deep
[06:53] <ajmitch> Amaranth: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu
[06:53] <Amaranth> LaserJock: but if i talk a lot the things i do work on get more attention ;)
[06:54] <nixternal> hrmm, I just did lspci and now my wifi card is totally different than what it really is
[06:54] <Amaranth> there is no way http://steelgryphon.com/blog/?p=98 is real
[06:54] <Amaranth> i thought only new england worked like that
[06:54] <LaserJock> ajmitch: they say you can drown in 1 inch of water
[06:54] <ajmitch> LaserJock: now slice that water as thin as you possibly can
[06:54] <ajmitch> that's how deep my wisdom is
[06:55] <LaserJock> ajmitch, you are so full of crap
[06:56] <ajmitch> I agree
[06:56] <Amaranth> hmm
[06:56] <Amaranth> now to decide: my whole blog or just a certain tag?
[06:57] <Amaranth> i don't think i've ever posted something that wouldn't fit the planet
[06:57] <ajmitch> if I blogged, I wouldn't put my whole blog on planet
[06:57] <ajmitch> since I *know* that I'd want to blog stuff that people wouldn't want on planet :)
[06:57] <Amaranth> i suppose it can't hurt to have to tick an extra checkbox to make it go on planet
[06:58] <LaserJock> I separate Ubuntu from others
[06:58] <LaserJock> I'm also on another planet
[06:59] <ajmitch> heh
[06:59] <ajmitch> hi Burgundavia 
[06:59] <LaserJock> so I try to keep things separated and relevant
[06:59] <Burgundavia> hey ajmitch, LaserJock
[06:59] <Fujitsu> Hey Burgundavia.
[06:59] <Burgundavia> hey Fujitsu
[06:59] <LaserJock> hi Burgundavia and Fujitsu 
[06:59] <Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
[07:00] <Fujitsu> Has the Council Grayskull voting closed yet?
[07:00] <Burgundavia> I urge you all to vote for me, as a for Corey is a vote for tyranny
[07:00] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: tomorrow
[07:00] <Burgundavia> ;)
[07:00] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ends the 15th
[07:00] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: we need more tyranny
[07:00] <Burgundavia> clearly
[07:00] <ajmitch> keep certain people in line
[07:00] <ajmitch> who needs consensus when you can rule by decree?
[07:01] <LaserJock> consenus really stinks a lot of the time
[07:01] <ajmitch> yeah
[07:01] <LaserJock> not that it's bad in and of itself
[07:01] <ajmitch> it's a fine line to try & keep people going in the same direction
[07:02] <LaserJock> it just takes forever and in the end you have something that nobody feels passionate about
[07:03] <LaserJock> of course a less-than-benevolent tyranny is no fun
[07:03] <ajmitch> mmm, design by commitee
[07:04] <ajmitch> did you read the latest CC meeting log?
[07:04] <LaserJock> I didn't yet
[07:04] <ajmitch> the issue of people being on multiple councils, especially
[07:04] <ajmitch> there was a spirited discussion, mainly sabdfl, mako & ubuntugeek :)
[07:05] <Burgundavia> and what was the conclusion?
[07:05] <ajmitch> that people on multiple councils will recuse themselves from decisions in certain situations
[07:05] <ajmitch> you'd need to read the logs to see
[07:06] <Burgundavia> seems reasonable
[07:06] <ajmitch> yeah, that was mostly sabdfl being persistent
[07:06] <LaserJock> well, I honestly don't see how we can keep all the councils/governance orthogonal
[07:06] <ajmitch> the other side was that someone serve on only one council
[07:06] <LaserJock> unless we start voting in people just because they aren't on a team yet
[07:07] <LaserJock> s/team/council/
[07:07] <ajmitch> which gets pretty stupid
[07:07] <ajmitch> it's not like there are that many active MOTUs, yet we'll have a council of 5
[07:09] <LaserJock> well, as long as nobody nominates me for anything
[07:09] <LaserJock> I don't care what they do so much ;-)
[07:10] <ajmitch> aren't you already on the edubuntu council or something? :)
[07:10] <LaserJock> yes, and I don't think I need more
[07:11] <LaserJock> my term there will be up with Feisty
[07:11] <LaserJock> lol
[07:11] <ajmitch> though only sabdfl nominates
[07:11] <LaserJock> that would be the stupidest thing ever
[07:12] <ajmitch> almost as bad as me being on the TB :)
[07:12] <ajmitch> they tend to have their meetings at awful times, too
[07:15] <LaserJock> yep
[07:15] <LaserJock> like the Launchpad meetings
[07:15] <ajmitch> :)
[07:15] <ajmitch> how's that going?
[07:15] <LaserJock> oh, ok
[07:16] <LaserJock> our bug for getting preloaded tags is in review
[07:16] <ajmitch> are some are our pet bugs getting addressed?
[07:16] <ajmitch> great
[07:16] <LaserJock> or rather the cod for it is in review
[07:16] <LaserJock> *code
[07:16] <ajmitch> that's for setting a tag with +filebug?
[07:16] <LaserJock> well, I gave kiko the full list that I have
[07:16] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:16] <ajmitch> cool
[07:16] <LaserJock> I also gave him a Top 5 list
[07:17] <LaserJock> and he said he was putting people on it
[07:17] <ajmitch> I wonder if anyone will miss me if I skip this motu meeting ;)
[07:17] <LaserJock> yes
[07:17] <ajmitch> I don't think they'll notice
[07:17] <LaserJock> of course they will
[07:17] <LaserJock> you're like the MOTU Godfather or something
[07:18] <ajmitch> nah
[07:20] <ajmitch> more like the senile old grandfather sitting rocking on the porch
[07:20] <LaserJock> lol
[07:22] <LaserJock> I feel like a monkey trying to figure out this code
[07:22] <LaserJock> I just see something similar and copy-n-paste and change the variable names
[07:22] <ajmitch> hehe
[07:22] <ajmitch> code monkey
[07:22] <LaserJock> and see how it breaks
[07:23] <LaserJock> then change something, see how it breaks
[07:23] <LaserJock> ad infinitum
[07:24] <ajmitch> fun
[07:26] <LaserJock> I'm starting to get a little better then that
[07:26] <LaserJock> but not a lot better
[07:32] <ajmitch> Daniel!!
[07:32] <dholbach> good morning
[07:32] <dholbach> hi Andrew
[07:33] <ajmitch> hi :)
[07:35] <LaserJock> hi dholbach 
[07:36] <dholbach> hi LaserJock
[07:38] <LaserJock> :-)
[07:40] <ajmitch> sure, I'm awake now :)
[07:43] <Amaranth> @schedule Chicago
[07:43] <Amaranth> Ubugtu: ?
[07:44] <ajmitch> that'll only work in -meeting
[07:44] <Amaranth> works in -offtopic too
[07:44] <Amaranth> ooh, MOTU meeting in 3 hours
[07:44] <Amaranth> first one?
[07:44] <ajmitch> no
[07:44] <ajmitch> we've been having them for a couple of years now
[07:45] <ajmitch> not always very regular
[07:45] <ajmitch> there was one 3 weeks ago
[07:45] <Amaranth> err
[07:45] <Amaranth> is the council stuff done yet? :)
[07:45] <ajmitch> no
[07:45] <ajmitch> voting is still open
[07:45] <Amaranth> ah, i thought this was the first meeting with the council in place
[07:45] <ajmitch> nope
[08:26] <siretart> morning folks
[08:28] <LaserJock> hi siretart 
[08:29] <Kagou> hi
[08:38] <LaserJock> \o/
[08:50] <LaserJock> can anybody tell me what an & is in C++?
[08:50] <Lure> LaserJock: reference?
[08:51] <Lure> LaserJock: in front of variable?
[08:51] <crimsun> it could be a bitwise AND.
[08:51] <crimsun> it depends on the context
[08:51] <Lure> crimsun: right, but that is also in C...
[08:52] <thill2708> why isn't mountiso in the repos?
[08:53] <crimsun> do you want a serious answer to a contextless question?
[08:53] <thill2708> can we do both? 
[08:53] <thill2708> whichever you like first
[08:53] <Lathiat> did you read "to a" as "or a" ?
[08:53] <thill2708> ;)
[08:54] <thill2708> or a, apparently
[08:54] <thill2708> heh
[08:54] <Lathiat> you suck :)
[08:54] <thill2708> so it seems
[08:54] <thill2708> ok, so how would I ask that question better?
[08:55] <LaserJock> thill2708: the problem is your question is sort of rhetorical
[08:55] <LaserJock> mountiso isn't in the repos because it isn't in the repos
[08:55] <crimsun> 1) no source package of that name exists in Debian
[08:55] <crimsun> 2) no source package of that name exists in REVU
[08:55] <crimsun> 3) no source package of that name exits in Ubuntu
[08:55] <thill2708> do I have to be the author to request it into the repos?
[08:55] <LaserJock> no
[08:56] <thill2708> how does this usually work?
[08:56] <LaserJock> but it's generally better if you do something more than "I want mountiso"
[08:56] <crimsun> ---->  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New  <----
[08:56] <LaserJock> thill2708: we have a wiki page where you can request an app
[08:57] <thill2708> ah, yeah, looking now
[08:57] <crimsun> look, linked from the topic!
[08:57] <crimsun> which people obviously never read
[08:57] <thill2708> just thought I'd blurt out something before researching
[08:57] <LaserJock> crimsun: context is: if (family & 1){
[08:57] <LaserJock> of course, that's what we all do ;-)
[08:57] <LaserJock> except crimsun of course :-)
[08:57] <StevenK> LaserJock: What type is family?
[08:57] <LaserJock> int
[08:58] <StevenK> LaserJock: It's bitwise AND.
[08:59] <LaserJock> so what is that doing then?
[08:59] <StevenK> LaserJock: Which is silly, because it's the same as 'family == 1'
[08:59] <LaserJock> ok, that's sort of what I thought it was
[09:00] <LaserJock> but I'm not quite sure how an AND would do that
[09:00] <Lure> StevenK: not precisely, it checks if family is odd number
[09:02] <LaserJock> hmm, how would I do "if family == 1 or family ==0"
[09:03] <StevenK> Yup, Lure is correct. I didn't check closely enough.
[09:08] <LaserJock> do I just do if (family == 1 || family == 0){
[09:13] <StevenK> LaserJock: No, because that isn't it. family & 1 returns true if family is odd.
[09:19] <LaserJock> StevenK: can you explain for my poor chemist brain why it returns true if family is odd?
[09:30] <Lure> LaserJock: bitwise AND 1 means that it checks the lowest bit in integer (bits go for 1, 2, 4, 8,...), therefore if you do bitwise AND 1, it will return true if lowest bit is 1 and since only this bit can give you odd number (all other bits give you multiple of 2 or sign (this is highest bit for int)
[09:30] <Lure> LaserJock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation
[09:30] <Lure> LaserJock: this may be much better explaination than mine ;-)
[09:34] <LaserJock> Lure: wow, ok. Interesting
[09:36] <LaserJock> oh my goodness, it all works!!!!!
[09:37] <siretart> bigon: re: bug #84604 
[09:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84604 in sylpheed "[UVF exception request]  sylpheed 2.3.1-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84604
[09:38] <siretart> bigon: I'm at work right now, so I cannot sponsor your upload ATM. perhaps you manage to find a faster sponsor than me
[09:41] <LaserJock> ok guys
[09:41] <LaserJock> I don't think I'm going to make it
[09:42] <LaserJock> I really have to go to bed :/
[10:19] <siretart> slomo: re: UVF: we did agree that the 2nd ack upload the package, didn't we?
[10:40] <sistpoty> morning
[10:47] <TheMuso> Hey sistpoty.
[10:47] <TheMuso> Are you coming to the MOTU meeting?
[10:47] <sistpoty> hi TheMuso
[10:47] <sistpoty> TheMuso: sure
[10:48] <siretart> huhu sistpoty!
[10:48] <sistpoty> hi siretart
[10:51] <StevenK> ajmitch: Who'd you kill?
[10:52] <slomo> siretart: we did? hm, maybe... will do in the future and later for the remaining ones i ack'd yesterday
[10:52] <ajmitch> myself
[10:52] <ajmitch> slomo: yes, it was Decreed
[10:55] <ajmitch> hi tmarble 
[10:55] <tmarble> ajmitch, hello!
[10:55] <ajmitch> good to see you here & congrats on your ubuntu membership now :)
[10:56] <tmarble> thank you very much
[10:56] <ajmitch> you're wanting to get further into the java areas?
[10:56] <tmarble> i dropped in to #ubuntu-meeting as I am most keen on becoming a MOTU (looking for advice on the next steps)
[10:57] <tmarble> yes, now that more and more software is being (re)licensed under open source licenses (esp. Java) I'd like to get it packaged
[10:58] <ajmitch> right
[10:58] <ajmitch> the next steps generally consist of doing the work & getting uploads sponsored
[10:59] <ajmitch> maybe we could trade something for MOTU status, like a T2000 :)
[10:59] <tmarble> hahahaha
[10:59] <siretart> slomo: ajmitch: I remember we agreed on that for SRU, not sure about UVF, but that's probably a good idea anyway
[11:00] <ajmitch> tmarble: I installed dapper on one awhile back :)
[11:00] <siretart> not sure if I'm gonna make it
[11:00] <ajmitch> siretart: right, it may have only been for SRU, not UVF
[11:01] <ajmitch> since for UVF you may not have the whole thing to upload
[11:01] <ajmitch> tmarble: a local startup got some T2000s to play with, and I ended up setting up ubuntu on one
[11:01] <ajmitch> not bad machines
[11:02] <ajmitch> siretart: alright, we'll understand :)
[11:04] <siretart> ajmitch: T2000?
[11:05] <tepsipakki> sun hardware
[11:05] <tepsipakki> i guess :)
[11:05] <tepsipakki> we had one too, but I never saw it
[11:05] <ajmitch> I saw 4 of them in the rack (and heard)
[11:06] <StevenK> They're 1 or 2RU, I can't remember which
[11:06] <StevenK> And noisy as hell
[11:06] <ajmitch> 2U, iirc
[11:06] <tepsipakki> heh, we have a rack of 1U HP opteron-servers.. they are mighty loud :)
[11:07] <tepsipakki> glad that I don't have to visit the server rooms that often anymore..
[11:08] <tmarble> well, yes, they *are* loud (at the advantage of being rather energy efficient).... on the SWaP metric (including space, heat and power along with performance) they outperform the competition 5x to 8x
[11:09] <ajmitch> they're also quite fast (for certain tasks) :)
[11:10] <siretart> ah, this remembers me, I did talk to michael at the local departement here, looks like we could setup a sprac dev machine for MOTUs
[11:10] <ajmitch> that's good
[11:10] <ajmitch> it's still officially supported (for server at least)
[11:11] <ajmitch> tsmithe: canonical deals, perhaps?
[11:11] <tsmithe> sounds likely
[11:11] <ajmitch> sabdfl isn't likely to drop sparc after making a big show of supporting it
[11:12] <tsmithe> guess not
[11:12] <tmarble> well, and i think ubuntu has benefited from our partnership (lot's of media attention shared both ways)
[11:12] <ajmitch> certainly
[11:13] <ajmitch> and there are likely to be customers who run ubuntu on sparc
[11:13] <tmarble> it's actually quite nice
[11:13] <tsmithe> well, i wouldn't know (:
[11:18] <siretart> however, there is still no sun java jre for linux/sparc. a showstopper at least for our departement
[11:19] <tmarble> siretart, i am exquisitely aware of that (and we are working on it)
[11:22] <siretart> tmarble: cool! great to hear!
[11:33] <geser> lionel: didn't notice it (only checked on packages.ubuntu.com) but as I don't know how to fix this ftbfs on ia64 I'll leave it like this for now
[11:34] <lionel> geser: ia64 is not officialy supported btw
[11:34] <lionel> (and not a current arch I think...)
[11:51] <geser> should we sync iceape for replace of mozilla-browser?
[11:52] <sistpoty> geser: imo we should... but feel free to ask on -devel maybe s.o. has a different opinion there
[11:53] <ajmitch> ok
[11:53] <ajmitch> now I can get to bed before midnight :)
[11:53] <ajmitch> yay
[11:53] <sistpoty> hehe
[11:53] <ajmitch> I'll try & get lists & bugs filed asap
[11:54] <sistpoty> :)
[11:54] <TheMuso> heh
[11:54] <ajmitch> night all :)
[11:54] <TheMuso> night ajmitch.
[11:54] <Fujitsu> Night ajmitch.
[11:55] <TheMuso> Heya Fujitsu.
[11:57] <Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
[11:58] <sistpoty> gn8 ajmitch
[11:58] <Fujitsu> Hey sistpoty.
[11:58] <sistpoty> hi Fujitsu
[12:02] <dholbach> sistpoty: thanks (motu/faq)
[12:02] <dholbach> :)
[12:02] <sistpoty> dholbach: you're welcome ;)
[12:03] <Fujitsu> 4400 {un,mult}iverse bugs... Not much fun.
[12:04] <Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
[12:05] <Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu!
[12:05] <Hobbsee> how's the meeting?
[12:06] <TheMuso> Finished.
[12:06] <sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
[12:06] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: we're done already 
[12:06] <Hobbsee> ah, fair enough
[12:12] <Adri2000> hi
[12:14] <Adri2000> did anyone log the meeting? (I hope so :)) I was at school... :/
[12:14] <Hobbsee> !logs
[12:14] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[12:14] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, they're probably not there yet.
[12:14] <TheMuso> I'm doing the minutes now.
[12:14] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: some of them might be
[12:16] <TheMuso> Hey tsmithe.
[12:17] <Adri2000> TheMuso: can you put it at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/MOTU ?
[12:17] <Adri2000> hi tsmithe 
[12:17] <Hobbsee> hey tsmithe!
[12:17] <tsmithe> :)
[12:17] <TheMuso> Adri2000: Once I have written it, and posted to the ML, I will wikify it and put it up.
[12:18] <Adri2000> ok
[12:22] <Hobbsee> NO SHINY CLOAKS FOR TSMITHE!
[12:22] <tsmithe> can i have a matt cloak then?
[12:22] <Hobbsee> nope
[12:22] <tsmithe> :'(
[12:23] <tsmithe> hehe you didn't think of that
[12:23] <Fujitsu> Damnit.
[12:36] <sistpoty> later folks
[12:47] <fernando> moin all
[12:57] <tsmithe> hi fernando 
[12:58] <TheMuso> Now to prepare for wiki upload.
[01:14] <Hobbsee> siretart: can you ack https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ksynaptics/+bug/84738 please, per the last comment?
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84738 in ksynaptics "UVFe request: ksynaptics" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[01:17] <enyc> Hrrm I wonder who is going to test 77485 / 78005 SRU updates.... they definitely work.. using both the new packages on machines of my own... and 'sheer' uses them too...
[01:17] <Hobbsee> oh damn, i wanted to give feedback over UVF
[01:17] <Hobbsee> thanks TheMuso 
[01:18] <enyc> I dont know what the proceuder is when there seems to be limited-use of a simple SRU fix that does work but not enough testers !
[01:18] <Hobbsee> !logs
[01:18] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[01:19] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: np.
[01:19] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: YOu can always reply to the relevant part from the minutes on the mailing list.
[01:20] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: true :)
[01:21] <TheMuso> THeres a big email I need to reply to on the accessibility list actually, but I need a fully awake brain to do so. :)
[01:33] <TheMuso> How do logs usually get put on the wiki for meetings? Automatically, or manually? If manually, where does one get the log in the format all the other logs are in?
[01:38] <TheMuso> Ah I see
[01:38] <TheMuso> depends on who uploads them.
[01:39] <TheMuso> Anyways, I'm outa here folks.
[01:41] <TheMuso> gah! How does one make sure new lines are new lines?
[01:53] <TheMuso> If anybody could please fix up the formatting on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/MOTU_2007-02-14, I'd much appreciate it. I am no wiki guru, and just don't know how to do it right. :)
[02:21] <Lutin> ajmitch: the file mlt++_0.2.2+cvs20070214-0ubuntu1.dsc seems to be stuck in revu, could you nuke it ?
[02:59] <xerxas> Hi all 
[03:27] <enyc> hrrm
[03:28] <enyc> I dont know what the MOTU SRU procedure is for whet there seem to be limited users of a working fix and there is trouble getting sufficent testers ;-)
[03:28] <enyc> which is a problem for 77485 / 78005 bugs
[04:03] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:04] <geser> Hi bddebian
[04:07] <Ursinha> Ursinha, hi hi
[04:07] <bddebian> Hello geser, Ursinha
[04:21] <Q-FUNK> do we have a feisty BSP channel?
[04:23] <crimsun> #ubuntu-bugs is the "bug channel"
[04:27] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: ah yes, that's the droid I was looking for :)
[04:27] <bddebian> heh
[04:30] <Q-FUNK> weird bug with pulseaudio on feisty.  no sound and when launching an audio ap from commandline, some complaint about starting as  suid root withotu being a member of pulse-rg group.
[04:33] <crimsun> purely diagnostic
[04:33] <crimsun> you can add your user to pulse-rt
[04:34] <Q-FUNK> me senses it's gonna be a dist-upgrade issue for many
[04:39] <Q-FUNK> (rhythmbox:5919): GStreamer-CRITICAL **: gst_element_dispose: assertion `GST_STATE_PENDING (element) == GST_STATE_VOID_PENDING' failed
[04:42] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: yup, I added all users there.
[04:42] <Q-FUNK> I still get the above.
[05:14] <Retardedpope> I would like to see "GPRS easy connect" in feisty, could anyone pack it?
[05:15] <Retardedpope> (before the feature freeze for univers)
[05:34] <lionel> Retardedpope: could you add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
[05:36] <Retardedpope> lionel: I'll do that...
[05:37] <Retardedpope> lionel: or not, it's there already
[05:37] <lionel> :)
[06:00] <geser> oh, an other bddebian :)
[06:00] <bddebian2> mwuhahaha
[06:01] <jdong> aah! singular identity!
[06:01] <jdong> NO NO NO NO NO!!!
[06:01] <jdong> bddebian: are you the integration with zombie bddebian2?
[06:01] <bddebian> heh
[06:01] <geser> two bddebian can do twice as much work as one bddebian
[06:02] <bddebian> Are you kidding, two bddebians can suck twice the intelligence out of this room :-)
[06:14] <zul> heh sven luther as dpl....that will be the day
[06:30] <Laser_away> dholbach: do you think the "packaging" and "bitsize" tags are a bit too generic?
[06:32] <dholbach> no, I don't :)
[06:32] <Laser_away> how will be separate Main from Universe, or bitsize for docs/artwork/etc. ?
[06:39] <Laser_away> dholbach: seems like we should use motu-*
[06:39] <dholbach> assign or subscribe motu and then mark 'bitEsize'
[06:40] <Laser_away> but then how do can't just search for motu tags
[06:41] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/~motu/+subscribedbugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.status_upstream=&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.tag=bites
[06:41] <dholbach> ize
[06:42] <dholbach> you can search for tags
[06:42] <Laser_away> I guess
[06:43] <Laser_away> seems overly complicated but it would keep the number of tags down
[06:43] <dholbach> what do you you suggest?
[06:43] <dholbach> I don't think that tagging bugs is complicated
[06:43] <dholbach> we can have  tinyurl  for those canned searches on MOTU/Bugs
[06:44] <Laser_away> I just wonder how much people will really pay attention to them
[06:45] <bdmurray> dholbach: I think tagging bugs is harder than it should be though
[06:45] <dholbach> I think it's a lightweight process of indicating "here's a problem that lies in packaging"
[06:45] <Laser_away> sure
[06:46] <Laser_away> I just think people might search for motu-* tags
[06:46] <Laser_away> to see what different things are going on, etc.
[06:46] <Laser_away> but as you say, assigning or subscribing motu would fix that I guess
[06:46] <dholbach> I think we should have ONE specific tag across the distro
[06:46] <Laser_away> along with the canned searches
[06:47] <dholbach> you can still search for universe bugs among them
[06:47] <Laser_away> I just wonder how useful a tag is if it's so general that you have to then do more searching to narrow down the results
[06:47] <Laser_away> but I see your point
[06:48] <dholbach> because a new contributor wants to see bitesize tasks because she wants to help out
[06:48] <dholbach> at the moment there is NO bitesize task at all
[06:48] <dholbach> and I guess she doesn't care if it's in Universe or Main :)
[06:48] <siretart_> bitesize? what's that?
[06:49] <dholbach> siretart_: a thing that you can fix "in one bite" :)
[06:49] <siretart_> wow
[06:49] <siretart_> :)
[06:49] <dholbach> siretart_: if you don't want to "bite off more than you can chew" :)
[06:50] <siretart_> so I can mark all my bugs which I'm to lazy to upload just as bitesize, and hope somebody else does it :)
[06:50] <dholbach> yeah
[06:50] <dholbach> i wrote a mail to bugsquad and motu to mark bugs as bitesize and packaging
[06:50] <dholbach> I think it's a good way to get bugs fixed and people involved
[06:51] <dholbach> we have some in the bughelper project too
[06:51] <Laser_away> dholbach: I understand what you are saying, but people "do" care if it's in Universe or Main
[06:51] <siretart_> "'bitesize' if you think that it's suitable for a beginner."
[06:51] <siretart_> that sounds really useful
[06:51] <Laser_away> perhaps the approach from ~motu works fine
[06:51] <dholbach> Laser_away: you can still make the distinction if you care
[06:52] <dholbach> if you feel strong about it, let's discuss on the mailing list
[06:52] <dholbach> i'll approve your mails on ubuntu-bugsquad@.
[06:52] <Laser_away> I just need to think about it
[06:52] <siretart_> with 'beginner' you mean a MOTU hopeful
[06:52] <dholbach> yeah
[06:52] <Laser_away> hmm, I guess I'm not on that list
[06:52] <Laser_away> I should be I suppose ;-)
[06:54] <siretart_> espc. if the package is already in bzr :)
[07:17] <superm1> bddebian, you around?
[07:30] <herzi> what's the ubuntu way of doing an RFP (request for package)? is there a meta-package so I can file those requests as bugs?
[07:31] <mr_pouit> herzi, you can add it on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
[07:34] <keescook> I'm still confused about universe UVF; it seems to be listed twice on the Feisty schedule (8th and 22nd)
[07:34] <LaserJock> nope
[07:34] <LaserJock> 22nd is Feature Freeze
[07:35] <keescook> LaserJock: ah, okay.
[07:53] <sistpoty> hi folks
[07:55] <fernando> hi sistpoty 
[07:56] <sistpoty> hi fernando
[08:04] <ajmitch> morning
[08:05] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[08:07] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
[08:08] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:08] <LaserJock> I wonder how a "Software freedom is highly overated" planet post would go over? :-)
[08:08] <zul> afternoon ajmitch
[08:09] <zul> LaserJock: you will probably burst into flames
[08:09] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it'd be a great way to invite flames
[08:09] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:10] <LaserJock> maybe I could tone it down a little bit
[08:10] <_ion> We'll have to limit the freedoms of your software, otherwise the terrists win.
[08:10] <sistpoty> lol
[08:11] <LaserJock> as long as I don't get RMS goonies at my door  I'd probably survive ;-)
[08:12] <ajmitch> even the slightest concessions will get raving hordes beating down your door ;)
[08:12] <zul> of course if no one reads your blog then you are probably ok
[08:12] <LaserJock> yeah, that too
[08:13] <LaserJock> just seems like there could be some balance
[08:14] <zul> you can do it
[08:15] <ajmitch> go for it
[08:15] <ajmitch> we'll cheer you on
[08:15] <LaserJock> hehe. until you flame me :-)
[08:15] <ajmitch> I'd never
[08:16] <ajmitch> ooh, 4h45 until motu council votes close
[08:16] <LaserJock> sweet
[08:17] <LaserJock> that has been like the longest vote ever
[08:18] <ajmitch> CC will be longer
[08:18] <ajmitch> about 3 months to get nominations, how long to get votes?
[08:19] <LaserJock> oh geeze, that's going to be fun
[08:19] <zul> LaserJock: I might flame you....I might not ;)
[08:20] <zul> most likely not..
[08:20] <ajmitch> can you resist it?
[08:20] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I'd wait until the vote is done before you post :P
[08:21] <LaserJock> I'm not being voted on so I don't care
[08:21] <LaserJock> it'll take me 5-6 hrs to write the stupid thing anyway
[08:21] <zul> ajmitch: nope
[08:22] <ajmitch> sistpoty: why would the vote have anything to do with LaserJock trolling? ;)
[08:23] <sistpoty> ajmitch: because I thought LaserJock would also be in MC... I blame the lack of sleep tonight *g*
[08:23] <LaserJock> ajmitch: trolling? surely not ;-)
[08:23] <ajmitch> nah he can troll away to his heart's content
[08:23] <ajmitch> heh
[08:24] <zul> trolling = giving an alternate point of view
[08:24] <sistpoty> hehe
[08:24] <LaserJock> zul: of course
[08:52] <TheMuso> Hey MOTUs and hopefuls. :)
[09:08] <Ademan_> is there any way to see previously revu-ed packages?
[09:08] <Ademan_> or more importantly, just a list of the packages that will be in fiesty
[09:09] <mr_pouit> Ademan, you can see archived packages on this page : http://revu.tauware.de/index.py?archived=true
[09:11] <Ademan_> thanks
[09:13] <bddebian> OK, shoveling snow sucks.  Bring on the Global Warming!!
[09:14] <TheMuso> haha
[09:14] <Ursinha> bddebian, hahahah :)
[09:27] <imbrandon> moins all
[09:27] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[09:27] <imbrandon> heya bddebian 
[09:27] <sistpoty> hi imbrandon
[09:27] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty
[09:28] <jdong> is nickserv not talking ot me or something?
[09:28] <sistpoty> hi bddebian
[09:28] <imbrandon> heya sistpoty 
[09:28] <LaserJock> hi *
[09:28] <imbrandon> ello LaserJock 
[09:29] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[09:33] <imbrandon> bddebian, i'm righht with you there, tooo much snow here for my taste
[09:33] <imbrandon> and ICE, i hate ICE
[09:34] <imbrandon> i did a 360 on the highway comming home from work yesterday
[09:34] <imbrandon> luckly i dident wreck
[09:38] <LaserJock> imbrandon: the joys of living in rural Montana, we used to go ice-skating with out cars ;-)
[09:39] <LaserJock> s/out/our/
[09:39] <jdong> LaserJock: ice skating is more fun in cars
[09:39] <jdong> LaserJock: I call it SUV skating
[09:39] <jdong> you can get like 21 mpg while skating
[09:39] <imbrandon> roflmao
[09:40] <jdong> (in city that is)
[09:40] <jdong> and a very nasty hospital visit in highway.
[09:40] <imbrandon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcRMmA3oKxA&feature=PlayList&p=D985A2229718FA8D&index=0
[09:40] <jdong> and imbrandon , I know how you feel, I still remember when I spun out on the highway
[09:40] <jdong> from tapping the brakes on a non-ABS car
[09:47] <imbrandon> i drive a chevy blazer suv
[09:47] <imbrandon> with abs , and still spun
[09:47] <imbrandon> heh
[09:47] <TheMuso> Heya imbrandon.
[09:47] <imbrandon> hey TheMuso 
[09:48] <jdong> imbrandon: ouch then that's just slick weather :)
[09:48] <jdong> imbrandon: find a slipping rabbit (hmm, what do you call the ice-testing equiv of a rabbit?)
[09:50] <ScottK> Sorry I couldn't make the MOTU meeting.
[09:51] <ScottK> Thanks.
[09:51] <sistpoty> ScottK: could you please check MOTU/FAQ if that's clear enough?
[09:52] <ScottK> Will do.
[09:52] <sistpoty> thx
[09:52] <sistpoty> oh, and TheMuso: excellent minutes, thanks a lot :)
[09:52] <TheMuso> sistpoty: np.
[09:56] <ScottK> sistpoty: I think that "may lead to problems" is, um, problematic.  Assuming the audience is people who don't know a lot about packaging, I think the FAQ should either say what bad thing will happen (and let the packager decide/ask if it's a problem) or be directive and say "If you need to remove a file from the upstream debian dir, you need remove it and repack the original tarball instead".
[09:58] <sistpoty> ScottK: oh, right... would you mind correcting this?
[09:58] <ScottK> I'll take a shot at it and then ask you to review.
[09:58] <sistpoty> ScottK: great, thanks
[10:04] <ScottK> sistpoty: How's that?
[10:05] <sistpoty> ScottK: nice. thanks!
[10:05] <ScottK> NP
[10:06] <enyc> hrrm
[10:06] <enyc> bother
[10:08] <enyc> meep moop
[10:15] <enyc> Somebody please tell me what the right thing todo is where there seem to be limited users of a working SRU universe fix and there is trouble getting sufficent testers to 'Works_For_Me' -- which is now a problem for 77485 78005  bugs.
[10:19] <sistpoty> enyc: try to find more testers... e.g. you could ask around on #ubuntu, or you could write into the forums (well, I want to make a forum thread tonight anyways, once I've written the next sru-report)
[10:23] <sistpoty> enyc: well, I guess we could make exceptions for really non-breaking SRU's like these two... but I don't want to make a decision on this yet, and rather wait two more weeks to see if the testing situation will improve
[11:01] <mattb> hi there, I've just added myself to the team in launchpad, so that I can upload to REVU
[11:01] <mattb> apparently I ask someone here to sync the keyring now?
[11:02] <jdong> ajmitch: ^^?
[11:03] <sistpoty> mattb: I'm on it
[11:03] <mattb> cheers :)
[11:03] <sistpoty> mattb: will take a few minutes until the script is finished
[11:08] <mattb> ok, I'll sit patiently 
[11:10] <sistpoty> mattb: done
[11:10] <mattb> excellent, many thanks
[11:10] <sistpoty> you're welcome
[11:40] <Lutin> rexbron: ping
[11:41] <rexbron> Lutin: hey
[11:42] <rexbron> Lutin: I take it you got my email?
[11:42] <Lutin> rexbron: I actually didn't understand why you mailed me ;)
[11:43] <rexbron> Lutin: cause you packaged it, wondered if you did the debian/copyright by hand, or with a script
[11:43] <Lutin> rexbron: I've never packages cinelerra
[11:43] <rexbron> Lutin: you also changed the upstream debian files
[11:44] <rexbron> Lutin: it was in regard to one of your packages that had many entries into debian/copyright
[11:44] <rexbron> Lutin: WE are packaging Cinelerra, but do not look forward to having to comb through all the files manually for copyright info
[11:45] <rexbron> also by we, I mean Ubuntu Studio
[11:45] <Lutin> rexbron: sorry, I checked all the files manually when packaging mlt
[11:45] <rexbron> damn
[11:45] <rexbron> ok
[11:46] <Lutin> rexbron: it's really difficult to script such stuff
[11:46] <Lutin> it assumes all the (C) are written the same way in all the files, which is likely not going to happen
[11:47] <rexbron> It would be a nice tool to have
[11:48] <Lutin> indeed
[11:48] <Lutin> it's really painful to check every single file
[11:50] <LaserJock> it's probably more painful when we have to remove the package from the repos because it's undistributable
[11:50] <LaserJock> but yeah
[11:51] <Lutin> missing licenses in some files are also painful
[11:54] <tsmithe> hum. anyone wanna put a word in, or help out with the UbuntuStudio project's review of cinelerra licences (so we can get it into universe) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/CinelerraReview
[11:54] <LaserJock> tsmithe: what is there to do exactly?
[11:54] <LaserJock> have you put it on REVU yet?
[11:55] <tsmithe> some of the files are not under the same licence that the LICENSE file implies
[11:55] <tsmithe> and there are even non-free fonts distributed
[11:55] <rexbron> LaserJock: we need update the debian/copyright to reflect everything
[11:55] <tsmithe> (even in a gpl app)
[11:55] <rexbron> cinelerra = mess
[11:56] <rexbron> for licencing
[11:56] <LaserJock> hehe, I know
[11:56] <Lutin> multimedia = mess actually
[11:56] <LaserJock> but what are you doing about it?
[11:56] <tsmithe> read the spec :)
[11:56] <LaserJock> has -cv decided what to do?
[11:56] <tsmithe> upstream are indifferent
[11:57] <LaserJock> so are you removing the fonts?
[11:59] <tsmithe> of course
[11:59] <tsmithe> amongst other things
[11:59] <tsmithe> (*urges to read the spec*)
[11:59] <LaserJock> does the unlicensed code come from heroine?
[12:00] <tsmithe> i don't know yet
[12:00] <tsmithe> probably
[12:00] <tsmithe> *sigh*
[12:01] <LaserJock> I feel better if it comes from heroine
[12:01] <LaserJock> if it's code from elsewhere it's a bigger mess
[12:02] <tsmithe> well
[12:02] <tsmithe> they include libquicktime, etc
[12:02] <tsmithe> it's all in bzr if you want to check it out
[12:03] <LaserJock> but are those parts that don't have licenses/copyrights ?
[12:03] <tsmithe> some... some just aren't GPL and aren't noted down as such
[12:04] <tsmithe> (as i said, the LICENSE suggests everything is GPL, which is plainly isn't)
[12:04] <LaserJock> are the licenses compatible?
[12:05] <tsmithe> i'm not 100% sure of the entire situation yet. this is why we're running this review
[12:06] <Lutin> sistpoty: ping: even with debian policy, I don't really understand when the lib soversion has to be appended to the package name in a -dev package (eg libfoo1-dev vs libfoo-dev). any clues ?
[12:06] <LaserJock> well, I have doubts if cinerella will ever make it
[12:06] <tsmithe> why?
[12:06] <tsmithe> pessimist :P
[12:06] <LaserJock> I'm almost positive it's won't make it in Feisty
[12:06] <tsmithe> really?
[12:06] <LaserJock> I think heroine and -cv are illegaly distributing code
[12:07] <tsmithe> that's sad
[12:07] <bddebian> Lutin: Have you read the library packaging guide?
[12:07] <tsmithe> they are
[12:07] <tsmithe> they just don't care
[12:07] <Lutin> bddebian: yes
[12:07] <tsmithe> (hence multiple *sigh*s)
[12:07] <sistpoty> Lutin: usually you don't append it to the -dev package, unless you plan to have two incompatible versions of the same library in the archives
[12:07] <LaserJock> I don't think Ubuntu wants to have that
[12:07] <tsmithe> LaserJock, that's what we're out to fix)
[12:07] <LaserJock> tsmithe: but only the author can fix it
[12:07] <LaserJock> that's the problem
[12:07] <tsmithe> why?
[12:07] <Lutin> sistpoty: ok, thanks :)
[12:08] <LaserJock> because the author is the only entity that can change the license
[12:08] <LaserJock> you can't just relicense things for people ;-)
[12:09] <tsmithe> we're not changing anything, i hope
[12:09] <LaserJock> I think heroine is the root of the issue
[12:10] <LaserJock> you'll have to
[12:10] <LaserJock> you have to have license/copyright info
[12:10] <LaserJock> unless you can convince heroine to look at their code and fix it I think it's not going to get anywhere
[12:11] <tsmithe> bahrgh
[12:12] <LaserJock> unless -cv steps up
[12:12] <LaserJock> but it doesn't sound like they are very willing to do it
[12:12] <rexbron> LaserJock: cv is lazy
[12:12] <LaserJock> but even then, I don't know that they can relicense the stuff
[12:12] <LaserJock> since they got it from heroine, I'm assuming
[12:12] <tsmithe> i don't think they can
[12:13] <LaserJock> well, the only thing I can really see (if sending a patch doesn't work) is asking the FSF to step in
[12:14] <LaserJock> sorry _MMA_ 
[12:14] <_MMA_> :)
[12:14] <LaserJock> I just don't want you guys to waste your time
[12:14] <LaserJock> if it's not going to work
[12:14] <tsmithe> come on LaserJock!
[12:14] <tsmithe> it's only 5200 files! :P