[12:29] <mpt> Seveas, any progress on fixing that bug?
[12:30] <mpt> (actually, come to think of it, it might be a side-effect of the bug in Launchpad where it sends new assignees a "Public/Private bug reported:" copy of the bug description)
[01:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85234 in launchpad "Beta product display misses the registrant, which is the group people should join to contribute to products" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85234
[02:13] <spiv> radix: ?
[02:13] <radix> spiv: Maybe it doesn't actually exist. Maybe it was all a dream.
[02:13] <radix> spiv: But I think I saw a bzr branch browser once.
[03:11] <daviey> Is it possible to edit a comment?
[03:13] <LaserJock> I don't think so
[03:14] <daviey> ;( that is a *bug*
[03:17] <LaserJock> well, I'm not sure if that's the way it's supposed to work or not
[03:19] <thumper> daviey: no you can't edit a comment
[03:19] <thumper> you can add another one though
[03:19] <thumper> I'm sure that was a design decision not an oversight
[03:19] <daviey> it's wrong that typo's can't be corrected
[03:19] <thumper> daviey: so file a bug :)
[03:19] <daviey> i am
[03:20] <thumper> cool#
[03:20] <thumper> at least you should get the definitive answer then
[03:20] <LaserJock> daviey: perhaps a preview might be nice
[03:20] <LaserJock> I think one of the problems with edits might be bug emails, but I don't know
[03:21] <daviey> thats true; but it does make you look like a plonker when you re-read a comment
[03:21] <daviey> ;)
[03:22] <LaserJock> mhm
[03:22] <LaserJock> I did that a few times when I first started
[03:23] <LaserJock> now I'm so used to it I'm not bothered so much when I look like a 2nd grader
[03:50] <LarstiQ> I'm rather sure such a bug already exists
[03:51] <LarstiQ> but I can't seem to find it, so perhaps it only got discussed here
[04:32] <mpt> daviey, I reported it a few weeks ago at bug 80895
[04:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80895 in malone "Give people five minutes to edit/delete their comment" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80895
[05:33] <mpt> "There is another synaptic running in non-interactive mode."
[05:34] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:35] <Hobbsee> good luck with that
[05:37] <mpt> or the "Theres No Such Thing as a Synaptic, Anyway" button
[05:42] <Hobbsee> there's a button for that?  :P
[05:45] <mpt> Alas no
[05:45] <mpt> I'm just a feeble interaction designer
[05:45] <Hobbsee> darn.
[05:45] <mpt> doing HTML-monkeying for a living
[05:45] <Hobbsee> fun
[05:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85251 in synaptic "Confusing "another synaptic" error when Synaptic launched during update" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85251
[06:13] <mpt> Hobbsee, did you mean a Launchpad "core dev"?
[06:13] <mpt> And if so, what did you mean by "core"?
[06:13] <Hobbsee> mpt: actually, meant for ubuntu.  for some reason, i'm confusing you with someone else.  again :P
[06:14] <mpt> And confusing #launchpad with #ubuntu-devel
[06:18] <Hobbsee> quite possible.  actually, i knew you were in both, so ended up questioning you where you'd last responded.  but you're right.
[06:20] <LaserJock> mpt: I've got a beta question
[06:20] <LaserJock> at the top line (the greenish bar) there are little arrows, do those do anything?
[06:31] <mpt> LaserJock, eventually they will
[06:31] <LaserJock> I saw the home button has stuff
[07:31] <sabdfl> mpt: let's set the call up for monday, will you coord with usman? between 7 and 9am UTC would work best for me, probably quite a quick call
[07:31] <sabdfl> that should give him time to respond to your comments
[07:31] <sabdfl> and then also for you to integrate the images
[07:35] <mpt> sabdfl, good idea
[08:52] <Mez> morning sabdfl :D
[11:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85299 in launchpad "Broken "Learn more..." link to +tour on front page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85299
[11:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85304 in launchpad "Cut-off action menu icons in Opera 9.10" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85304
[12:15] <carlos> morning
[12:28] <jamesh> morning jml
[12:28] <jml> jamesh: hi
[12:29] <jml> jamesh: still in brazil?
[12:29] <jamesh> yep
[12:29] <jml> how's the weather?
[12:34] <jamesh> jml: it has been pretty mild (compared to .au standards)
[12:34] <jamesh> jml: very nice
[12:36] <jml> jamesh: I'm glad for you
[12:57] <static> moin
[12:58] <bac> hi
[12:58] <evil-kiko> HA HA HA HA
[12:58] <evil-kiko> me
[12:59] <Hobbsee> uh oh...
[01:00] <evil-kiko> hello? launchpad meeting????
[01:00] <evil-kiko> what a sissy thing, rose water
[01:00] <mpt> (or am I confusing that with holy water?)
[01:00] <SteveA> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting.  Who is here today?
[01:00] <mpt> me
[01:00] <ddaa> me
[01:00] <matsubara> me
[01:00] <flacoste> me
[01:00] <evil-kiko> me
[01:00] <barry> me
[01:00] <bac> me
[01:00] <danilos> me
[01:00] <spiv> me
[01:00] <cprov> me
[01:00] <salgado> me
[01:00] <static> me
[01:01] <SteveA> For the next 45 minutes, this channel will be devoted the weekly launchpad meeting.  Please have side-conversations in privmsgs or on other channels.  Thanks.
[01:01] <BjornT> me
[01:01] <jml> me
[01:01] <jamesh> me
[01:01] <stub> me
[01:01] <carlos> me
[01:02] <SteveA> bac: Welcome Brad!
[01:02] <bac> thanks steveA
[01:02] <mpt> hello bac and welcome
[01:02] <barry> welcome brad!  us/eastern +1
[01:02] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[01:03] <bac> up to four now, barry?
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Bug report (mpt)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[01:03] <SteveA> ----
[01:03] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Launchpad buzz report (mrevell)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * New Launchpad and Bazaar leaflets (SteveA on mrevell's behalf)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Don't use rsync (SteveA)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * (other items)
[01:03] <SteveA> ----
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[01:03] <SteveA> 
[01:03] <SteveA> next meeting, same time next week?
[01:03] <SteveA> I won't be here -- I'll be travelling to pycon
[01:03] <SteveA> Kiko will be on vacation
[01:03] <SteveA> matsubara will be on vacation
[01:03] <SteveA> anyone else absent?
[01:04] <barry> SteveA: i will be traveling also
[01:04] <stub> I can be absent if it makes things easier :)
[01:04] <carlos> :-D
[01:04] <SteveA> ok, how about we move next week's meeting to wednesday?
[01:04] <salgado> wednesday I won't be around
[01:04] <SteveA> Apologies for missing today's meeting: 
[01:04] <SteveA>  * mrevell - travelling to Skycon, in Limerick, Ireland. Have emailed my contributions to SteveA.
[01:04] <SteveA> 
[01:05] <carlos> I will be, I was just following stub's joke
[01:05] <danilos> me neither, I'm off for entire next week
[01:05] <SteveA> ok.  let's stick to thursday, as usual
[01:05] <SteveA> stub: please run next week's meeting
[01:05] <SteveA> in your usual style
[01:05] <stub> Yay
[01:05] <stub> Wednesday?
[01:05] <SteveA> thursday
[01:05] <SteveA> as usual
[01:05] <stub> ok
[01:05] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[01:06] <ddaa> uptodate
[01:06] <stub> up to date
[01:06] <mpt> not up to date
[01:06] <SteveA> I haven't done one in a while.
[01:06] <matsubara> up to date
[01:06] <BjornT> up to date
[01:06] <jml> up to date
[01:06] <barry> up to date
[01:06] <static> up to date
[01:06] <bac> up to date
[01:06] <spiv> up to date
[01:06] <flacoste> up to date
[01:06] <evil-kiko> I'm sprinting
[01:06] <evil-kiko> but I sent one
[01:06] <cprov> not up to date
[01:06] <danilos> on sprint, will restart after
[01:06] <salgado> I'm missing yesterday's, but will send it in a minute
[01:06] <SteveA> == People who were lax with activity reporting last week ==
[01:06] <SteveA>  * danilos
[01:06] <SteveA>  * jamesh
[01:06] <SteveA>  * jml
[01:06] <SteveA>  * kiko
[01:06] <SteveA>  * static
[01:06] <carlos> up to date (on sprint for missing ones)
[01:06] <SteveA>  * SteveA
[01:06] <SteveA> 
[01:06] <evil-kiko> SteveA I was in a sprint, wth are you talking about!!!!
[01:07] <SteveA> that'll be inaccurate reporting on the meeting summary
[01:07] <mpt> which will be my fault
[01:07] <mpt> sorry
[01:07] <evil-kiko> too late
[01:07] <mpt> MeetingAction: evil-mpt to fix the meeting notes
[01:07] <SteveA> well done jml, static for resuming good activity reporting
[01:07] <SteveA> danilos, jamesh, kiko were sprinting
[01:07] <SteveA> I still suck
[01:08] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[01:08] <SteveA> There were none
[01:08] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:08] <matsubara> Nothing new this week. The weekly report shows only known bugs and the most important ones are already assigned.
[01:08] <matsubara> so, I pass on to mpt. Thanks SteveA 
[01:08] <SteveA>  * Bug report (mpt)
[01:09] <mpt> There are 2068 known bugs in Launchpad without released fixes, of which 11 are marked as Critical. The oldest six are:
[01:09] <mpt>  * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, In Progress, kiko
[01:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/30602 - Assigned to Christian Reis (kiko)
[01:09] <mpt> kiko, how goes the branch of wondrous optimization?
[01:09] <mpt>  * Bug #46982 (Need to support KDE like plural forms), Critical, Confirmed, danilos
[01:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like plural forms" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46982 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[01:09] <mpt> danilos, last week you said you'd discuss with carlos the possibility of giving this to him and doing OO.org support instead. Did you discuss it?
[01:09] <evil-kiko> mpt: carlos jamesh and danilo have a surprise which I am reviewing
[01:10] <carlos> mpt: no need to discuss it, It's my task
[01:10] <mpt> evil-kiko, am I allowed to know which bug that surprise relates to?
[01:10] <carlos> but I forgot to update the bug
[01:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85326 in launchpad-bazaar "SFTP server should initiate a pull attempt" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85326
[01:10] <evil-kiko> NO
[01:10] <mpt> carlos, ok
[01:10] <mpt> evil-kiko, fine then
[01:10] <mpt>  * Bug #48813 (Efficiently mirroring sftp hosted branches with minimal latency), Critical, In Progress, jml
[01:10] <mpt>  * Bug #49989 (branch puller reports failure for new hosted branches), Critical, In Progress, jml
[01:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48813 in launchpad-bazaar "Efficiently mirroring sftp hosted branches with minimal latency" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48813 - Assigned to Jonathan Lange (jml)
[01:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49989 in launchpad-bazaar "branch puller reports failure for new hosted branches" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/49989 - Assigned to Jonathan Lange (jml)
[01:10] <mpt> jml, how's progress on these two nearly-duplicates-but-not-quite?
[01:10] <jml> mpt: I changed them to fix-committed before the meeting started
[01:10] <evil-kiko> both look fix committed
[01:11] <jml> mpt: waiting for cherry pick to production
[01:11] <mpt> and I didn't notice
[01:11] <ddaa> mpt: and cherrypick has just been requested, too
[01:11] <mpt> or rather, I didn't procrastinate enough before compiling the bug report report
[01:11] <mpt>  * Bug #78033 (Oops pages in 1.0 design are completely unformatted), Critical, In Progress, mpt
[01:11] <mpt> This is fixed on a cleanup branch that I'll land today. (It also fixes the Actions menu indentation, in case anyone's wondering.)
[01:11] <jml> mpt: I cut the timing fairly fine
[01:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78033 in launchpad "Oops pages in 1.0 design are completely unformatted" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78033 - Assigned to Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
[01:11] <mpt> and finally
[01:11] <mpt>  * Bug #81544 (private), Critical, Fix Committed, jml
[01:11] <Ubugtu> Bug 81544 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/81544 is private
[01:11] <mpt> jml, did you ask for a cherrypick for this one too?
[01:12] <jml> mpt: no I didn't.
[01:12] <mpt> is it worth it?
[01:12] <jml> mpt: not sure. I'll chase it up.
[01:12] <markvandenborre> I wonder if there's anyone around here who could help process a .po file submitted for inclusion into Rosetta
[01:12] <mpt> okie dokie
[01:12] <mpt> That's all SteveA, thanks
[01:12] <SteveA> thanks mpt
[01:12] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[01:12] <mpt> and thanks jml
[01:12] <SteveA> there are no proposed bug tags
[01:12] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:12] <markvandenborre> it was submitted 2007/01/22 
[01:13] <ddaa> mpt: this bug has been fixed and rolled out in 1.80
[01:13] <markvandenborre> through https://translations.launchpad.net/support.points.map/trunk/+translations-upload
[01:13] <stub> Production update went fine, apart from neglecting jamesh's cherry pick request. How urgent is the launchpad.net -> beta.launchpad.net redirect?
[01:13] <stub> Production db server is actually starting to be loaded, and it looks like being IO bound will be our first problem. We still have plenty of time before it hurts though for code optimizations, db performance tuning and the PostgreSQL 8.2 upgrade that will help significantly.
[01:13] <stub> I plugged the operational statistics into the cricket graphs earlier today. We are hovering around 12 requests per second and spiking to 14, distributed over the 4 launchpad.net app servers.
[01:13] <stub> staging and edge are being boring, not that I expect anyone to care at the moment as they are just running the launchpad/production/1.80 branch until the new ui is finalized and lands.
[01:13] <stub> beta will be moving from a single instance on asuka to multiple instances on gangotri and gandwana (the servers the production launchpad.net instances run on). Probably 4 instances but maybe only too. Undecided at this point.
[01:13] <matsubara> markvandenborre: we're in a meeting right now, but carlos or danilo could help you if you privmsg them.
[01:13] <markvandenborre> matsubara, thx, and sorry for interrupting
[01:13] <matsubara> markvandenborre: no problem.
[01:14] <SteveA> stub: I'd like jamesh's redirect code to be in production as soon as reasonable.
[01:14] <SteveA> stub: is the DB loaded based on read volume, write volume or both?
[01:14] <stub> I'll push that out and test tomorrow then, along with any other cherry picks on the list.
[01:14] <stub> SteveA: No idea at this point
[01:15] <stub> SteveA: Just looking at io wait at the moment. Need to get some more low level disk access details.
[01:15] <SteveA> ok
[01:15] <SteveA> is there a chart that shows database load?
[01:16] <SteveA> also, I'd be interested in hit stats of GET vs POST
[01:16] <stub> 'database load' is very vague. I have CPU load, transactions per second.
[01:16] <stub> Not much else at this point.
[01:16] <SteveA> ok.  can you add a GET vs POST to the stats collection?
[01:16] <carlos> stub: I guess removing 40*2 million rows will help, right?
[01:17] <stub> SteveA: If we want GET vs POST, we need to update the opstats (lib/canonical/launchpad/webapp/opstats.py)
[01:17] <stub> carlos: Yes
[01:17] <SteveA> stub: or grep it out of apache
[01:17] <stub> SteveA: Easier to do it properly - the infrastructure is all there already.
[01:17] <SteveA> ok, please file a bug and do it sometime
[01:18] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[01:18] <SteveA> 6
[01:18] <SteveA> 5
[01:18] <SteveA> 4
[01:18] <SteveA> 3
[01:18] <SteveA> 2
[01:18] <SteveA> 1
[01:18] <stub> the beta -> production servers you know about
[01:18] <SteveA> thansk sysadmins
[01:18] <ddaa> SteveA: got one
[01:18] <SteveA> yep, saw that.  thanks stub
[01:18] <ddaa> sorry
[01:18] <SteveA> ddaa: too late :-/
[01:18] <SteveA> ok, go on ddaa
[01:18] <ddaa> rsync cronjob for supermirror oopses
[01:19] <SteveA> RT number?
[01:19] <evil-kiko> SteveA: there's one for feedback@launchpad.net
[01:19] <ddaa> RT 26788
[01:19] <stub> Oh - and the supermirror rewrite list is being generated once per minute now instead of once per hour
[01:19] <ddaa> stub: thank you muchos
[01:19] <SteveA> evil-kiko: RT number?
[01:19] <evil-kiko> and also the noreply@ mailbox
[01:19] <evil-kiko> rt 26708
[01:19] <evil-kiko> rt 26676
[01:19] <SteveA> why do we want a mailbox for noreply@ ?
[01:20] <SteveA> sounds weird
[01:20] <SteveA> or is it a dev/null mailbox/
[01:20] <SteveA> ?
[01:20] <evil-kiko> SteveA you even commented on the bug
[01:20] <stub> Indeed. We use that when we explicity want to toss replys
[01:20] <evil-kiko> well
[01:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #46982 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like plural forms" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
[01:20] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[01:20] <barry> isn't noreply@ always /dev/null? :)
[01:20] <jamesh> evil-kiko: didn't you mainly want something as a replacement for the bounces@ address?
[01:20] <stub> Consider using a different email address if a human will actually see them
[01:20] <evil-kiko> the issue is that we are sending email out with an envelope sender of bounces@
[01:20] <jamesh> which wasn't called bounces@?
[01:20] <evil-kiko> well
[01:21] <evil-kiko> I want to be able to see the bounces
[01:21] <SteveA> I will now paste in matthew revell's report
[01:21] <evil-kiko> because they mean
[01:21] <SteveA> 
[01:21] <SteveA> Top user-affecting issue
[01:21] <SteveA> - -------------------------
[01:21] <SteveA> Spam-like activity in the Answer Tracker, as raised on launchpad-users.
[01:21] <SteveA> It's not spam, it's an inexperienced user who is indiscriminately
[01:21] <SteveA> posting replies to other questions:
[01:21] <evil-kiko> that we're not sending out email
[01:21] <SteveA> > > https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ticket/3628
[01:21] <SteveA> > > https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ticket/3352
[01:21] <SteveA> > > https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ticket/2528
[01:21] <SteveA> > > https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ticket/2015
[01:21] <SteveA> > >
[01:21] <SteveA> > > The "spammer" is the user campbellkidz1
[01:21] <SteveA> > > (https://answers.launchpad.net/~duane-c-1999 ).
[01:21] <SteveA> Although this isn't a substantial problem yet, it does show that we may
[01:21] <SteveA> have to consider the problem of commercial spamming in future. I'd like
[01:21] <SteveA> to give an answer to Tom Kravanja, who raised this issue on launchpad-users.
[01:21] <SteveA> Please mail me with your thoughts on how we can reassure Tom and our
[01:21] <SteveA> plans, if any, to combat future spam threats.
[01:21] <jamesh> evil-kiko: I don't think it is sensible to conflate that with our existing noreply@ address
[01:21] <SteveA> 
[01:21] <SteveA> jamesh, evil-kiko: please continue this on another channel, like lp-cpde
[01:22] <SteveA>  * Launchpad buzz report (mrevell)
[01:22] <evil-kiko> that wouldn't be evil
[01:22] <SteveA> Matthew says:
[01:22] <SteveA> Buzz report
[01:22] <SteveA> - ------------
[01:22] <SteveA> As posted to launchpad ML.
[01:22] <SteveA> https://launchpad.canonical.com/Marketing/BuzzReports/14Feb07
[01:22] <SteveA> Please mail me with your suggested metrics to demonstrate the growth of
[01:22] <SteveA> the part of Launchpad you work on.
[01:22] <SteveA> 
[01:22] <SteveA> We'll start sending these to the launchpad-users mailing list soon.
[01:22] <SteveA> 
[01:22] <SteveA>  * New Launchpad and Bazaar leaflets (SteveA on mrevell's behalf)
[01:23] <SteveA> Matthew says:
[01:23] <SteveA> Proposed: New leaflets
[01:23] <SteveA> - -----------------------
[01:23] <SteveA> I've created two leaflets, one for Bazaar and one for Launchpad. You can
[01:23] <SteveA> see them at:
[01:23] <SteveA> https://wiki.canonical.com/MarketingMaterials?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=bazaar-front.pdf
[01:23] <SteveA> https://wiki.canonical.com/MarketingMaterials?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Launchpad.PDF
[01:23] <SteveA> 
[01:23] <SteveA> that was a proposed item for the agenda
[01:23] <SteveA> not proposed new leaflets
[01:23] <SteveA> these *are* the new leaflets
[01:23] <SteveA> 
[01:23] <SteveA>  * Don't use rsync (SteveA)
[01:24] <SteveA> When doing bzr operations to develop on launchpad, we should be using rsync only once, for a new developer to get a built tree to start with.
[01:24] <static> hurrah!
[01:24] <barry> SteveA: +1
[01:24] <SteveA> After that, we shouldn't be using rsync, but instead using bzr commands with bzr+ssh://devpad.canonical.com/code/...
[01:24] <SteveA> If you see any docs mentioning rsync except for this one special case, fix them, and let me know about it
[01:25] <flacoste> SteveA: you mean we shouldn't even use rsync to update rocketfuel-built?
[01:25] <static> the thing that is not clear to me is how to update rocketfuel-built using bzr
[01:25] <SteveA> In the near-ish future, when we have shallow branches, nested branches and other good stuff in bazaar, we won't even need the initial rsync.
[01:25] <static> I think we probably need to fix some parent-branch settings in rocketfuel-built
[01:25] <barry> flacoste: i think you still rsync rocketfuel-built for now
[01:25] <jamesh> SteveA: how about updating a local copy of rocketfuel-built?
[01:26] <SteveA> static, flacoste: I do this by running bzr pull bzr+ssh://devpad.canonical.com/code/rocketfuel/... as appropriate in the trees in rocketfuel-built
[01:26] <SteveA> we could have a script to do that
[01:26] <evil-kiko> SteveA: rsync works fine for downloading; using it to push I agree is a bad idea.
[01:26] <static> SteveA: absolutely. did you have to change the parent branches on your sourcecode/* trees in order to do that? I'd like to get more details later on
[01:26] <cprov> SteveA: I usually replace single "pushes" by a full repository rsync to devpad. Is that wrong ?
[01:26] <SteveA> evil-kiko: I'm very -1 on using rsync for a whole bunch of reasons
[01:27] <SteveA> and I want us to have a standard practice for how we're meant to develop stuff
[01:27] <barry> maybe have a post mtg chat about this?
[01:27] <evil-kiko> well, in practical terms, rsync is faster and simpler for downloading. 
[01:27] <SteveA> if you use it, and it works for you, and you understand enough to keep doing it, then keep doing it
[01:27] <SteveA> but it isn't our standard procedure
[01:27] <SteveA> and it will be going away eventually anyway
[01:27] <evil-kiko> I understand that we don't want to propose rsync as the long-term solution for large trees with nesting
[01:27] <SteveA> when we start developing launchpad in launchpad
[01:28] <evil-kiko> but bzr needs to grow some extra wings to carry that weight
[01:28] <stu1> (unless you want to try driving config manager...)
[01:28] <SteveA> we shouldn't use config-manager
[01:28] <SteveA> it's too complicated and fragile in use
[01:28] <ddaa> +10
[01:28] <evil-kiko> yay config manager is everything evil
[01:29] <stub> (19:27:39) stub: If you don't rsync rocketfuel-built, you don't pick up changes in the 3rd party stuff in sourcecode/
[01:29] <SteveA> static: let's you nad I talk about how to sort syncing nested trees after the meeting
[01:29] <evil-kiko> stub: which often causes lost time
[01:29] <sabdfl> SteveA: nice brochures, however the more canonical colour for the headings and bottom for Canonical brochures would be red
[01:29] <barry> SteveA: do you have that script you were talking about?  i don't know enough about how rocketfuel-built is built to write something like that right now
[01:29] <SteveA> we'll publish a standard way to do that
[01:30] <static> SteveA: ok
[01:30] <SteveA> sabdfl: I'll pass that on to matthew r. and christina
[01:30] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[01:30] <stub> DONE: Production & DBA stuff, OpenID server
[01:30] <stub> TODO: OpenID server
[01:30] <stub> BLOCKED: No
[01:30] <static> DONE: met bac in person, working on demo for pycon, helping bac get started, working with customers, several interviews.
[01:30] <static> TODO: Finish pycon demo, work on specs, vacation.
[01:30] <static> Blocked: No
[01:30] <evil-kiko> DONE: some SERIOUS nascentupload refactoring, interviews
[01:30] <evil-kiko> TODO: finish this refactoring, go over Carlos' branch (doing it now), look at firefox data model with Danilo, VACATION
[01:30] <evil-kiko> BLOCKED: no
[01:30] <barry> DONE: RocketFuelSetup debugging; feisty alpha testing; pqm submissions; downloads and XMLRPC research
[01:30] <barry> TODO: final(?) updates for RFS; concentrate on XMLRPC and downloads
[01:30] <barry> BLOCKED: no
[01:30] <BjornT> DONE: code reviews. fixed 1.0 iu, and a few other, bugs.
[01:30] <BjornT> TODO: code reviews. fix more 1.0 ui bugs.
[01:30] <BjornT> BLOCKED: no
[01:30] <flacoste> DONE: reviews, merge pending branches, bug fixes, answer tracker renaming
[01:30] <flacoste> TODO: answer tracker renaming, write spec, bug fixes, reviews
[01:30] <flacoste> BLOCKED: no
[01:30] <matsubara> DONE: checked oops reports, fixed #33663, #62423 and #59971, working on oops-tools to generate script reports
[01:30] <matsubara> TODO: finish the oops-tools work and carnival!
[01:30] <matsubara> BLOCKED: no
[01:30] <danilos> DONE: Rosetta sprint
[01:30] <danilos> TODO: Rosetta sprint, vacation
[01:30] <danilos> BLOCKED: no
[01:30] <jamesh> DONE: sprint, code reviews, finish off redirect-beta-testers branch.  
[01:30] <jamesh> TODO: sprint, zope3 bug import (hopefully)
[01:30] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[01:30] <mpt> DONE: bugfixes, template cleanup
[01:30] <mpt> TODO: new app front pages, tour
[01:30] <mpt> BLOCKED: no
[01:30] <jml> DONE: Landed branch puller latency changes. Worked on storing branch ancestry information in LP.
[01:30] <jml> TODO: Finish branch ancestry. Review open bugs and specs. Get a taste of web changes.
[01:30] <jml> BLOCKED: No.
[01:30] <bac> Done: NewStaffTasks, RocketFuelSetup, spec reading, learning bzr
[01:31] <ddaa> DONE: low supermirror latency (coordination, reviews, production...)
[01:31] <ddaa> TODO: low supermirror latency
[01:31] <ddaa> BLOCKED: complete-revisions work (jml and thumper working on it), some of which will need to be cherrypicked
[01:31] <SteveA> DONE: management, recruiting, ui hacking
[01:31] <SteveA> TODO: management, recruiting, ui hacking
[01:31] <SteveA> BLOCKED: no
[01:31] <cprov> DONE: bug fixing (see soyuz report), working on nascentupload-cataclysm,
[01:31] <spiv> DONE: reviews, bzr smart server work
[01:31] <spiv> TODO: reviews, bzr smart server
[01:31] <spiv> BLOCKED: no
[01:31] <bac> Todo: Bug 84921, more spec reading, look at tests, holiday monday
[01:31] <cprov>       test beta on mawson/PPA.
[01:31] <cprov> TODO: Sort sprint Agenda/Topics for next week with jamesh+kiko.
[01:31] <cprov>       Test a solution for Warty & Hoary archive removal. (again)
[01:31] <cprov>       Buildd-ui browsing by time for rebuild analysis. (again)
[01:31] <cprov> BLOCKED: no
[01:31] <Ubugtu> Bug 84921 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/84921 is private
[01:31] <bac> Blocked: None
[01:31] <salgado> DONE: Bunch of small fixes to the new UI, including the blueprints a person is working on, wrote a widget which will allow us to generate the heading image from the mugshot image people upload, some code review and other random things
[01:31] <salgado> TODO: Land all the widget work I did, code review, random things and holidays.
[01:31] <salgado> BLOCKED: no
[01:31] <carlos> DONE: bug 83801, 73875 fix, sprint
[01:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 83801 in rosetta "Opening a new distro release to translations should be done with a live system" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83801 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73875 in rosetta "Project needs a Translations page" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/73875 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[01:31] <carlos> TODO: sprint, Firefox landing, Feisty translations opening
[01:31] <carlos> BLOCKED: no
[01:32] <SteveA> jamesh: finish off redirect-beta-testers branch ?
[01:32] <ddaa> thumper hasn't sent me his 3 sentences, but I know he's been doing at least branch-email, products-with-code, complete-revisions,
[01:33] <SteveA> what needs to be finished?  please coordinate with stub about when it is finished, so he can roll it out
[01:33] <jamesh> SteveA: I finished it off (it was marked as DONE)
[01:33] <SteveA> mrevell: DONE: Bazaar and Launchpad leaflets, Pycon materials, talking to users, preparing for Skycon, inviting new people to beta team, buzz report.
[01:33] <jamesh> SteveA: it is waiting on stub to roll out
[01:33] <SteveA> mrevell: TODO: Give talk at Skycon, meet potential Launchpad and Bazaar users at Skycon, documentation, 1.0 beta tester guide, improve buzz report.
[01:33] <SteveA> mrevell: BLOCKED: none
[01:33] <SteveA> jamesh: thanks
[01:33] <jml> ddaa: some spec work as well. complete-revisions is definitely on his todo.
[01:34] <SteveA> ddaa: also, I spoke with both tim and poolie earlier today
[01:34] <SteveA> That's the end of the planned agenda items.
[01:34] <SteveA> We have ten minutes left to continue the discussion of email addresses from earlier
[01:35] <SteveA> evil-kiko / jamesh: anything to add?
[01:35] <SteveA> 6
[01:35] <SteveA> 5
[01:35] <SteveA> 4
[01:35] <SteveA> 3
[01:35] <jamesh> nothing from me
[01:35] <SteveA> 2
[01:35] <SteveA> 1
[01:35] <jamesh> kiko is on the phone
[01:35] <SteveA> ok
[01:36] <SteveA> so, he loses :-)
[01:36] <SteveA> We can also continue the discussion of not using rsync.
[01:36] <matsubara> SteveA: I've agreed with flacoste that he'll cover me up next week doing oops reports.
[01:36] <SteveA> There isn't much of a discussion though, just a decision:
[01:36] <danilos> SteveA: and kiko loses again with rsync discussion :)
[01:36] <SteveA>  - we don't use rsync except for that first pull down of code, in our development processes
[01:37] <barry> SteveA: i agree with a bzr-only approach.  i just don't know how to use bzr to keep rocketfuel-built sync'd
[01:37] <SteveA>  - static and I will discuss an appropriate script to keep the nested trees built
[01:37] <evil-kiko> so
[01:37] <SteveA>     and will get this script out and mailed later today
[01:37] <barry> certainly bzr for all branches, pulls, and pushes of dev code
[01:37] <evil-kiko> fine if the script runs in non-geological time and updates everything as it should
[01:37] <SteveA> of course
[01:37] <SteveA> thanks everyone
[01:37] <evil-kiko> but be aware that rsync is very efficient over bad links
[01:37] <barry> cool.  i will update RFS with the script then
[01:37] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[01:38] <evil-kiko> and when I mean BAD
[01:38] <stub> If its only purpose is to keep rocketfuel-built up to speed, config manager might be fine for that (it is what is used to build rocketfuel-built)
[01:38] <evil-kiko> I SAY BAAAAAAAD
[01:38] <static> evil-kiko: what if the script uses GeoIP and switches to rsync internally for brazil?
[01:38] <SteveA> thanks barry 
[01:38] <evil-kiko> static: what would classify as evil, yes
[01:38] <static> :)
[01:38] <stub> And Thailand - they still haven't fixed that crushed cable
[01:38] <SteveA> if bazaar doesn't work for us like this, it will be a problem for others
[01:39] <SteveA> so we'll get changes to the smartserver to make it work better for us
[01:39] <evil-kiko> SteveA I know what you're getting at.
[01:39] <barry> dogfood +1
[01:39] <static> indeed. I would rather that we feel the pain so we are motivated to improve bazaar
[01:39] <evil-kiko> but I think's We're Not There Yet
[01:39] <SteveA> we also have lots more people joining our team soon
[01:39] <SteveA> and I want to give them clear instructions
[01:39] <evil-kiko> static: we should have you use gnu arch now.
[01:39] <stub> I'm not having any problems using bzr for everything except sucking down rocketfuel-built
[01:40] <jamesh> evil-kiko: you shouldn't have a problem pushing your branches from brazil with "bzr push"
[01:40] <SteveA> our nested trees in sourcecode/ change infrequently, and incrementally
[01:40] <evil-kiko> I'm in the same position as stub
[01:40] <barry> SteveA: i will ping you when i'm done updating and testing RFS.  i'd like to get your review.
[01:40] <evil-kiko> just because you have 100Mbit internet into your microwave doesn't mean that others do!!!11!
[01:40] <SteveA> markvandenborre: hi.  did you get your question answered?
[01:40] <markvandenborre> danilos is working on it...
[01:41] <SteveA> thanks for being patient with us while we had that meeting
[01:41] <static> evil-kiko: interested in timing this vaporware script when we have it, or is there a machine that I should use?
[01:41] <evil-kiko> static, no, sure send it over
[01:41] <markvandenborre> SteveA, all, thx for your help
[01:41] <evil-kiko> while I test you can try out gnu arch
[01:41] <jamesh> my current work flow is to rsync rocketfuel-built, then do lightweight checkouts of sourcecode/* from rocketfuel-built into my source trees
[01:41] <barry> evil-kiko: even with 20MB down, first branch against devpad was 84 minutes
[01:41] <evil-kiko> since you seem to be interested in acute pain
[01:41] <jamesh> then I can just update them with "bzr update" after rsyncing rocketfuel-built again
[01:41] <barry> second one was 1.5 minutes
[01:41] <SteveA> barry: pushing?
[01:41] <bac> static: i need to redo my local repo to correct the problem for yesterday, so i can be a guinea pig for the script from scratch
[01:42] <barry> SteveA: bzr branch devpad:///blah
[01:42] <barry> from local machine
[01:42] <static> evil-kiko: despite my flippant appearance, I'm actually deeply sympathetic to working over a slow link. I'm happy to use gnu arch if it helps improve things
[01:42] <evil-kiko> lol
[01:42] <SteveA> barry: you could have made a repository locally, and branched into it from your rocketfuel-built terr
[01:42] <SteveA> tree
[01:42] <evil-kiko> static: that was the funniest thing I heard all week
[01:42] <stub> barry: Using a bzr+ssh:// URL, sftp:// or something else?
[01:42] <SteveA> that would have got you a bunch of revisions "for free"
[01:43] <static> bac: awesome, that will be a great sanity check
[01:43] <barry> stub: sorry, =yep bzr+ssh://devpad
[01:43] <barry> SteveA: ah.  i made a branch in my devpad repo and then branched my local branch from that
[01:43] <barry> (after making a repo both on devpad and on local machine)
[01:43] <SteveA> barry: you want a repo on each side
[01:44] <SteveA> barry: and ensure that each repo has all the possible revisions that exist on a given side
[01:44] <jamesh> as far as making "bzr push" faster, I also have a script that ssh's into devpad and uses "bzr pull" to pull changes from rocketfuel into my devpad repo
[01:44] <stub> I think the meeting is over
[01:44] <evil-kiko> static: gnu arch is what we used in the beginning of time. one launchpad developer quit because of it. now only truly evil people use gnu arch.
[01:44] <jamesh> so when I push my changes I am only transferring my own work -- not other changes from rocketfuel
[01:44] <evil-kiko> stub as usual in touch with reality
[01:44] <barry> SteveA: not sure i understand that last comment "all the possible revisions that exist on a given side"
[01:44] <SteveA> stub: yes.  That's what MEETING ENDS means.  Loud and clear.
[01:45] <stub> Bah. Too hungry to notice that.
[01:45] <markvandenborre> thx all, especially danilos, for the help 
[01:45] <barry> jamesh: after creating repo on devpad and doing a first branch there, pushes were very fast (but of course i didn't have any substantial changes at the time)
[01:45] <markvandenborre> bye
[01:46] <static> SteveA: shall we discuss this script during our normal call at 14:30? I'd like to disappear for a while to run an errand
[01:46] <jamesh> barry: say you've been working on a branch for a while, then merge rocketfuel into it (which pulls changes from devpad -> your machine)
[01:46] <barry> oh, and how do we make bzr not be so dotspammy?
[01:46] <jamesh> barry: when you run "bzr push", it will be pushing both your changes, and the changes you merged
[01:46] <SteveA> static: that's fine
[01:47] <jamesh> barry: pulling the rocketfuel changes into the remote repo means you don't have to send them in both directions
[01:47] <SteveA> barry: what does "dotspammy" mean?
[01:47] <barry> SteveA: bzr outputs gobnormous numbers of dots ;)
[01:48] <jml> g'night all
[01:48] <jamesh> barry: I think bzr only prints dots for status if it doesn't think you're running on a proper terminal
[01:48] <barry> jamesh: cool, i think the cronjob bzr pull on remote machine takes care of that (as currently doc'd in RFS)
[01:48] <jamesh> barry: yep.  That is equivalent.
[01:48] <barry> jamesh: like an emacs shell buffer :)
[01:48] <barry> jamesh: cool
[01:50] <sabdfl> stub: the rewrite list is what maps user / product / name -> id for branch, right?
[01:50] <stub> sabdfl: Yes
[01:50] <sabdfl> if so, at some stage we could write an apache plugin which talks straight to the db, the number of requests will be tiny, and that will give us real-time updates.
[01:51] <stub> sabdfl: It isn't going to scale, but good enough for now until we get the mapping done dynamically
[01:51] <stub> sabdfl: Yup. Although I'd go for a minimal twisted webserver myself.
[01:53] <stub> Most of it already exists in the form of the sftp server I suspect
[01:53] <spiv> stub: sort of
[01:54] <spiv> stub: the sftp server does an XML-RPC at the start of an SFTP session to find out the mapping for all the branches that user can see.
[01:54] <spiv> (And obviously will do further XML-RPC calls if new branches are created during the session)
[01:55] <spiv> We'd want a different call for the webserver case, where it really is just the simple "look up one (user name, product name, branch name) triplet and find its id"
[01:56] <sabdfl> SteveA: are these brochures editable somewhere? they are very nice but there's lots of room for cleanup
[01:56] <spiv> And probably want some simple caching too.
[01:56] <sabdfl> don't think we should be printing them just yet
[01:58] <evil-kiko> sabdfl: we can change them but I think there's a time constraint
[02:06] <sabdfl> evil-kiko: i definitely want to get royally editorial on them
[02:06] <sabdfl> SteveA: ^?
[02:07] <evil-kiko> sabdfl: so can you do that between today and tomorow?
[02:07] <evil-kiko> pity mrevell's travelling but oh well
[02:07] <sabdfl> yes if i can find the docs
[02:08] <sabdfl> i also think they need some artistic love that i cna't give them
[02:08] <evil-kiko> sabdfl: oh you mean work on the originals? I was just suggesting providing feedback
[02:08] <sabdfl> but they need it badly
[02:08] <evil-kiko> SteveA: oink
[02:08] <sabdfl> no, i want to edit text, it's much easier
[02:21] <evil-kiko> SteveA's probably out lunching
[02:52] <cbx33> hi guys, in LP, I want to use LP as my main dev branch for the security of groups thing
[02:52] <cbx33> using bzr
[02:53] <cbx33> do I need to create an initial repo somewhere else to import it into bzr first?
[02:53] <cbx33> or is it possible just to commit to the bzr in LP straight away?
[02:56] <evil-kiko> cbx33 it is possible to just use LP straight away.
[02:56] <cbx33> evil-kiko: would it be by checking out the LP branch?
[02:56] <cbx33> and then commiting?
[02:56] <cbx33> can you give me some more details?
[02:59] <cbx33> ahh i think i see....
[02:59] <cbx33> i need to create a team first
[02:59] <cbx33> then can upload to the teams bzr branch right?
[03:03] <LarstiQ> cbx33: I'm confused as to what it is you want?
[03:04] <cbx33> well after looking at it I can't do it the way I really wanted to anyway.  I wanted a bzr branch that was hosted on LP, that several people in a team could access, but that I could submit to over https
[03:04] <cbx33> bzr only supports sftp
[03:04] <cbx33> :(
[03:04] <cbx33> the school I work at is behind a proxy - and the firewall is VERY restrictive
[03:07] <SteveA> ~/win 47
[03:09] <cbx33> LarstiQ: is that clearer?
[03:09] <evil-kiko> cbx33: so you can't ssh?
[03:10] <LarstiQ> cbx33: yes, that is clearer, thanks
[03:10] <cbx33> nope
[03:10] <cbx33> i can only use a restrictive http
[03:10] <cbx33> no svn on that one
[03:10] <cbx33> ftp - restricted again to non-login servers
[03:11] <cbx33> and https
[03:11] <cbx33> which i managed to get svn working over
[03:11] <cbx33> using a webdav apache setup
[03:12] <spiv> cbx33: the bzr protocol can be carried over HTTP, authentication is problematic.
[03:12] <cbx33> it would need to be https
[03:13] <cbx33> as things like PROPFIND that svn uses are blocked
[03:13] <spiv> https is fine too.
[03:13] <cbx33> ah
[03:13] <cbx33> cool
[03:13] <cbx33> but authntication is an issue you say?
[03:13] <SteveA> evil-kiko: thanks, I just caught up with mark
[03:14] <spiv> cbx33: yeah.  You'd want to configure the http(s) server that runs bzr to somehow run bzr as the right user; bzr doesn't inherently deal with authentication or permissions.
[03:15] <jamesh> spiv: digest auth would be okay over plain HTTP
[03:16] <jamesh> assuming bzr doesn't throw up when asked to do it
[03:16] <spiv> cbx33: For the case of hosting on bazaar.launchpad.net, we don't support writing to branches over http(s) at the moment.
[03:16] <spiv> jamesh: bzr doesn't deal with HTTP directly, really.  It's just a WSGI application.
[03:16] <cbx33> spiv, is it planned for the future?
[03:16] <spiv> cbx33: Not explicitly, but I think it would be nice to have.
[03:17] <cbx33> :p
[03:17] <jamesh> spiv: I thought you were saying "authentication is problematic" for HTTP in the sense that the passwords would be in the clear
[03:17] <cbx33> ok guess I'll just have to create it the way I was going to
[03:17] <spiv> cbx33: Run an SSH server on an HTTPS port somewhere :)
[03:17] <jamesh> cbx33: have you considered asking your school to change their policy?
[03:18] <LarstiQ> you could ofcourse carry the bzr branch you work on at school on an usb disk or such, and push when you're at home
[03:18] <cbx33> jamesh: I am the school network manager
[03:18] <cbx33> I'd love it to change
[03:18] <cbx33> unfortunately it's the schools ISP
[03:19] <LarstiQ> bzr doesn't require access to a centralized server to work
[03:19] <LarstiQ> cbx33: woh
[03:19] <spiv> jamesh: no (although that's clearly a concern, which digest auth mitigates somewhat), the problem is more that there's no standard way to configure either the bzr client or bzr wsgi server to deal with authentication.
[03:19] <cbx33> spiv, you see I tried that once and it didnt work
[03:19] <cbx33> LarstiQ: of course not...I just like to be able to commit my work....from work
[03:19] <LarstiQ> cbx33: right, you're in an entirely different situation than I assumed
[03:20] <LarstiQ> how is it possible that an ISP dictates that strongly to it's clients?
[03:20] <cbx33> well it is an issue yes
[03:20] <cbx33> they claim that they were forced to develop the infrastructure for teh schools internet support at a very late stage
[03:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85351 in launchpad "Team membership management is not sending email" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85351
[03:20] <cbx33> it is the city council
[03:21] <cbx33> as a result they were not able to implement it in a way that was secure
[03:21] <cbx33> apparently
[03:21] <cbx33> and so to secure things they block EVERYTHING
[03:21] <spiv> cbx33: perhaps try the corkscrew tool, and an HTTPS server that allows the CONNECT verb?
[03:21] <LarstiQ> cbx33: so at this point, it sounds like your best bet is working around the restrictions, and running an ssh server on an https port
[03:21] <cbx33> yes, but I fear things like that are also against the SLA
[03:21] <LarstiQ> or something like corkscrew
[03:22] <LarstiQ> cbx33: feh
[03:22] <cbx33> what is corkscrew?
[03:22] <cbx33> it sux
[03:22] <cbx33> the staff don't even have an email system they can access from home - now that is twisted
[03:22] <LarstiQ> cbx33: a tool to tunnel tcp connections through http
[03:22] <LarstiQ> cbx33: the ISP exists to make your work possible, not impossible
[03:23] <LarstiQ> cbx33: I suppose you can't switch to a different provider?
[03:23] <cbx333> sorry bout that 
[03:23] <carlos> there is a university in Spain that gets DSL lines to workaround the fact that their ISP department (of the same University) has a similar blocking policy
[03:23] <cbx333> wel corkscrew is banned through the "normal channels"
[03:24] <carlos> which opens a big hole in their security due both networks are connected
[03:24] <cbx333> yeh
[03:24] <carlos> that would be a good argument about how stupid is being so restrictive
[03:24] <jamesh> cbx333: well, do you need to publish your work from the school?
[03:25] <cbx333> jamesh: granted it's not a defacto requirement
[03:25] <cbx333> but I would like to
[03:25] <jamesh> cbx333: bazaar doesn't require that you publish after each commit
[03:25] <cbx333> no sure
[03:25] <cbx333> I'm an edubuntu dev
[03:25] <cbx333> and our school is *thinking* about going down the linux path
[03:25] <cbx333> so having that kind of ability would be useful
[03:26] <jamesh> I don't think we've got any solutions for you that are consistent with your ISP's policies, unfortunately :(
[03:26] <cbx333> no no that's fine
[03:26] <cbx333> was just wondering
[03:26] <cbx333> sometimes I just like to commit something to make sure it's safe :p
[03:33] <LarstiQ> cbx333: I do too, but I don't push it out remotely that ofte.
[03:33] <cbx333> heh
[03:33] <cbx333> ok
[03:33] <LarstiQ> if no others need that work, daily is fine for me
[03:33] <cbx333> true
[03:33] <cbx333> how can people get on the LP beta team?
[03:33] <cbx333> i had an email sent out a while back asking me to be on a panel for LP QA
[03:33] <cbx333> but havn't received anything since
[03:37] <LarstiQ> cbx333: launchpad user panel? Talk to mrevell (currently traveling)
[03:39] <carlos> cbx333: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2007-February/001023.html
[03:39] <evil-kiko> niemeyer: ping?
[03:40] <niemeyer> evil-kiko: Considering the nick, I'm afraid to pong
[03:40] <evil-kiko> niemeyer: can I have a branch with CONTAINSSTRING? pretty please?
[03:40] <niemeyer> evil-kiko: Sure.. what does it do?
[03:40] <evil-kiko> no clue.
[03:40] <niemeyer> like "%"foo"%"?
[03:40] <evil-kiko> let me see
[03:41] <cbx333> well i've joined the beta team....hope they'll consider me for inclusion
[03:41] <evil-kiko> def CONTAINSSTRING(expr, string):
[03:41] <evil-kiko>     return SQLOp("LIKE", expr, '%' + _LikeQuoted(string) + '%')
[03:41] <jamesh> niemeyer: except that CONTAINSSTRING(field, '%') will match strings containing a percent sign rather than anything
[03:41] <niemeyer> Oh, it does escaping as well
[03:41] <carlos> cbx333: did you send the email to Matthew?
[03:41] <niemeyer> Ok
[03:41] <jamesh> so underscores and percent signs are escaped
[03:41] <evil-kiko> niemeyer it does quote_like() or equivalent
[03:41] <niemeyer> jamesh: underscores?
[03:42] <evil-kiko> here's the code for _likequoted:
[03:42] <evil-kiko>     def __sqlrepr__(self, db):
[03:42] <evil-kiko>         s = sqlrepr(self.expr, db)[1:-1]  # remove quotes
[03:42] <evil-kiko>         if db in ('postgres', 'mysql'):
[03:42] <evil-kiko>             s = s.replace('%', '\\%')
[03:42] <evil-kiko>         else:
[03:42] <evil-kiko>             s = s.replace('%', '%%')
[03:42] <evil-kiko>         return "'%s%s%s'" % (self.prefix, s, self.postfix)
[03:42] <jamesh> niemeyer: in a LIKE expression, an underscore matches any character, and a percent matches zero or more characters
[03:42] <niemeyer> jamesh: Heh.. I had no idea about it
[03:43] <evil-kiko> niemeyer: apparently SQLObject doesn't know about it either :)
[03:44] <jamesh> niemeyer: select 'abc' like 'a_c'; returns True with postgres :)
[03:51] <cbx333> carlos yes I sent my email to matthew
[03:51] <carlos> ok, then you need to wait for him
[04:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85358 in launchpad-support-tracker "Allow hiding inappropriate comment " [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85358
[04:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85364 in launchpad "No notification is sent when somebody with an inactive membership proposes himself again" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85364
[04:51] <niemeyer> kiko-fud, jamesh: Done
[06:01] <kiko> thanks niemeyer 
[06:01] <kiko> will do more testing today
[06:01] <kiko> cprov, hey 
[06:01] <niemeyer> kiko: Cool
[06:01] <kiko> cprov, wanna come down this afternoon? the branch is almost ready for a first set of tests
[06:01] <niemeyer> kiko: Please let me know if it works
[06:01] <niemeyer> kiko: From the context, I wasn't completely sure if the second argument is always going to be a string,
[06:01] <niemeyer> but I guess that's probably the case on launchpad
[06:01] <cprov> kiko: sure, around 16:00, as usual ?
[06:02] <kiko> sure y not
[06:30] <cbx33> hi all I'm trying to submit a branch
[06:30] <cbx33> to LP
[06:30] <cbx33> but I keep getting the message permission Denid (publickey)
[06:32] <LarstiQ> the ssh key of the user you connect to launchpad to is registered in launchpad?
[06:35] <jamesh> cbx33: does your launchpad username differ from your local username?
[06:35] <cbx33> yes
[06:35] <cbx33> and i used the format
[06:35] <ddaa> the format?
[06:35] <cbx33> bzr push --create-prefix sftp://petesavage@bazaar.launchpad.net/~petesavage/phimage/phimage-devel
[06:36] <cbx33> ahh ddaa just reading your blog
[06:36] <cbx33> to try to help me
[06:36] <cbx33> but i keep getting permission denied
[06:36] <cbx33> :(
[06:36] <ddaa> cbx33: what is your home page on launchpad?
[06:36] <jamesh> --create-prefix is not necessary
[06:36] <cbx33> launchpad.net/~petesavage
[06:36] <ddaa> not necessary, but does not hurt
[06:37] <cbx33> oh hang on
[06:37] <cbx33> hmm
[06:37] <cbx33> lemme try this
[06:38] <jamesh> cbx33: you could try running "sftp -v petesavage@bazaar.launchpad.net" and see if the debug output gives any clues
[06:38] <ddaa> cbx33: my bet is that the ssh key on your current workstation is different from the ssh key you registered on launchpad
[06:38] <cbx33> got it
[06:38] <ddaa> otherwise, everything appears in order
[06:38] <cbx33> yes you are correct
[06:38] <cbx33> ;)
[06:39] <ddaa> glad to be your teddy bear
[06:39] <cbx33> thanks dude
[06:39] <ddaa> cbx33: note that LarstiQ used his psychic powers and asked you the question at first
[06:40] <cbx33> hehe
[06:40] <cbx33> well the keuy was registeder
[06:40] <cbx33> and i check the first 10 chars
[06:40] <cbx33> but silly me
[06:40] <cbx33> that wasn't enough for ssh
[06:42] <LarstiQ> :)
[06:43] <ddaa> LarstiQ: what about asking a bot to help people using sftp on launchpad?
[06:43] <ddaa> looks like a simple implementation of the question game and a little bit of pattern matching should do it very well
[06:43] <ddaa> s/asking/writing/
[06:44] <LarstiQ> I usually manage for people in here or on #bzr, for the rest such a bot won't help much
[06:44] <LarstiQ> unless you run it via the launchpad web interface?
[06:45] <ddaa> bah... why not, if you feel like writing a JS bot :)
[06:45] <ddaa> "Ask your Arthur, our artificial intelligence, to help you upload branches to Launchpad"
[06:46] <ddaa> s/Ask your/Ask /
[06:49] <LarstiQ> ddaa: perhaps we could do something about the error people get, suggesting a common solution
[06:49] <ddaa> most of the time, the error is in the ssh handshake
[06:50] <ddaa> so I guess that the server cannot really do anything
[06:50] <ddaa> maybe bzr itself could trying being smart when using sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net urls...
[06:51] <ddaa> such as "you did not specify a user name. Make sure your local user name is the same as your launchpad user name, or that you have set ~/.ssh/config appropriately"
[06:52] <ddaa> well... as you can see the "hints" can become long very quick
[06:52] <ddaa> I guess we could indeed use more informative error messages...
[06:53] <ddaa> maybe the sftp auth code on the server could actually be better
[06:53] <ddaa> "No such Launchpad account: foo"
[06:53] <ddaa> "Launchpad user does not have a registered ssh key: foo"
[06:54] <ddaa> "You ssh key does not match any key registered for Launchpad user 'foo'"
[06:54] <ddaa> probably with an url to the person page...
[06:54] <ddaa> Then there are the easier ones
[06:55] <ddaa> "You cannot write to branch ~foo/bar/baz because you are not foo"
[06:55] <ddaa> "You cannot write to branch ~foo/bar/baz because you are not a member of foo
[06:56] <LarstiQ> sounds like a plan
[06:58] <ddaa> Of historical interest: https://launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/33223
[06:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33223 in launchpad-bazaar "SFTP server should give human-friendly errors for name restrictions" [Medium,Fix released]   - Assigned to Andrew Bennetts (spiv)
[07:01] <LarstiQ> oh yes, I'm familiar with that one
[07:03] <jamesh> ddaa: I think we've got human readable messages for some things, but I don't think they get through to the client
[07:03] <ddaa> jamesh: see the bug I just mentioned
[07:04] <ddaa> I think these are new cases that are not currently supported.
[07:04] <ddaa> Then if they do not get through to the client, it's a bug in the client.
[07:04] <ddaa> but the launchpad sftp should probably be more helpful with authentication and privs than your basic openssh sftp server...
[07:05] <LarstiQ> yes
[07:09] <ddaa> bug 85392
[07:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85392 in launchpad-bazaar "better sftp server error reporting" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85392
[07:09] <ddaa> not sure about the importance of this bug...
[07:09] <ddaa> it's clearly getting in the way of people
[07:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85392 in launchpad-bazaar "better sftp server error reporting" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85392
[07:11] <ddaa> LarstiQ: how often do you see users asking about this on IRC?
[07:11] <ddaa> Like once a week?
[07:11] <ddaa> Once a day?
[07:11] <ddaa> every other minute?
[07:11] <LarstiQ> O(once a week)
[07:12] <LarstiQ> not that often for wrong ssh key, lot more just different user
[07:12] <ddaa> LarstiQ: feel free to comment on the bug
[07:12] <ddaa> I'm talking from my experience
[07:14] <LarstiQ> without actually grepping logs, my experience matches what you brought up in the bugreport
[07:15] <ddaa> presumably people would click on the url and then go click "hey, THAT's not me!"
[07:16] <ddaa> then users will start to think
[07:16] <ddaa> and the universe will collapse
[07:16] <ddaa> hu... ignore that
[07:17] <ddaa> LarstiQ: what do you think of the GPLv3?
[07:17] <ddaa> let's fill the screen fast! :)
[07:19] <LarstiQ> ddaa: I liked what I've seen so far
[07:45] <cprov> kiko: sorry, I'm late. I'm leaving in a bit
[07:46] <kiko> sure
[07:47] <mdz> cprov: thanks for your responsiveness on the epoch issue
[07:51] <cprov> mdz: you're welcome, but it was clearly my fault, a regression of #83976 (I deserved it !)
[07:51] <mdz> cprov: the important thing is that it was fixed promptly
[07:54] <cprov> mdz: yup
[08:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85409 in launchpad "Membership expiration warning is sent more than once" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85409
[08:49] <cbx33> is this good or bad :p
[08:49] <cbx33> Launchpad could not mirror this branch at 2007-02-15 17:57:12 GMT. The error was: Connection error: curl connection error (No route to host) on https://code.launchpad.net/~petesavage/+branch/tcm/trunk/.bzr/branch-format
[08:50] <ddaa> cbx33: with all due respect
[08:50] <ddaa> it means you have been silly
[08:50] <ddaa> or confused
[08:50] <cbx33> probably a little of both
[08:50] <cbx33> sorry ddaa
[08:50] <ddaa> it means that launchpad tried to _mirror_ a branch
[08:50] <ddaa> from itself
[08:51] <cbx33> right
[08:51] <ddaa> and failed because the routing happens to not allow it
[08:51] <cbx33> i see
[08:51] <ddaa> what did you _mean_ to achieve?
[08:52] <cbx33> i meant to add the branch to the project
[08:52] <ddaa> what branch?
[08:52] <cbx33> can i delete a branch?
[08:52] <ddaa> not really, but you can 1. mark it as "abandoned" 2. move it to the "obsolete-junk" product
[08:53] <cbx33> why can we not delete branches?
[08:53] <ddaa> because nobody got around to implementing it
[08:53] <cbx33> oh i see
[08:53] <cbx33> :p
[08:54] <ddaa> hu
[08:54] <Yannig> Hello everybody
[08:54] <ddaa> cbx33: I would like to know what you _meant_ to do
[08:54] <ddaa> and how you ended up doing this
[08:54] <cbx33> well....LP someimtes confuses me
[08:54] <cbx33> ok
[08:54] <cbx33> so I created the projct tcm
[08:55] <cbx33> i then created a personal branch for tcm
[08:55] <ddaa> I noticed branches likes that one in db before, but I never got hang of a user who created one to tell me why
[08:55] <cbx33> and I wanted to tie the two together
[08:55] <ddaa> cbx33: what is the launchpad page of the personal branch you created
[08:56] <ddaa> I mean, _where_ (and how) did you create it?
[08:56] <cbx33> https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~petesavage/+branch/tcm/trunk
[08:57] <ddaa> right, and you wanted to link that branch to the "tcm" product, right?
[08:57] <cbx33> yes
[08:57] <ddaa> very interesting
[08:57] <ddaa> it is _already_ in the tcm product
[08:58] <ddaa> but I agree that nothing on that page tells you
[08:58] <cbx33> no
[08:58] <ddaa> check the little dropdown thingy without a label just below "Actions"
[08:58] <cbx33> i can also no longer "find" my tcm project
[08:58] <Yannig> Any idea when Feisty will be translatable with Rosetta?
[08:58] <cbx33> i will once I find it
[08:58] <cbx33> searching for it yeidls 0 results
[08:58] <cbx33> both tcm and thin client manager
[08:59] <cbx33> oh
[08:59] <ddaa> cbx33: show me the url of the searches you did
[08:59] <cbx33> i got confused
[08:59] <cbx33> pojects and products
[08:59] <cbx33> hehe
[08:59] <ddaa> cbx33: I know you are confused
[08:59] <cbx33> hahah
[08:59] <LaserJock> going to launchpad.net/tcm/ worked for me
[08:59] <ddaa> but I want to understand how, why and how to fix it
[08:59] <cbx33> alright smarty pants LapTop006 
[08:59] <cbx33> LaserJock, 
[08:59] <cbx33> sorry LapTop006 
[09:00] <LaserJock> lol
[09:00] <ddaa> launchpad is meant _not_ to confused people, so I want to see what you are doing to understand what you expect
[09:00] <cbx33> sure
[09:00] <cbx33> ddaa, can i post feeback about LP beta here too?
[09:01] <ddaa> mh
[09:01] <ddaa> sure
[09:01] <ddaa> you can post feedback to the ML, why not here?
[09:01] <ddaa> as long as you do not post screenshoots...
[09:01] <cbx33> of course not
[09:01] <cbx33> well...the home link, i feel should go back to the real home...and not the home of the subsection
[09:02] <ddaa> cbx33: give me page urls
[09:02] <cbx33> I got very irate about that
[09:02] <cbx33> https://code.beta.launchpad.net/
[09:02] <LaserJock> so the idea is that if you push a branch to ~<lpid>/<product>/<branch> it shows up on /<product/+branches/ ?
[09:02] <cbx33> the home link at the top
[09:03] <ddaa> so you are on this page
[09:03] <ddaa> and you look for your branch?
[09:03] <cbx33> well no....I am on this page and would like to go back to the front page of LP
[09:03] <ddaa> cbx33: please... I would like to understand why you ended up registering this branch that points to launchpad itself...
[09:04] <cbx33> oh right ok
[09:04] <cbx33> well lets go back to that then
[09:04] <cbx33> sorry i was going off on other feedback
[09:04] <cbx33> ;)
[09:04] <cbx33> so
[09:04] <cbx33> i created the project
[09:04] <cbx33> wanted to create the "main" bzr branch
[09:04] <cbx33> for hte source
[09:04] <ddaa> this other feedback would be most welcome on the mailing list, or to mpt if you can grab him. But I'm just the code man... global UI is not really my dept.
[09:04] <cbx33> ok
[09:04] <cbx33> sure
[09:05] <ddaa> cbx33: url of the "project" you created?
[09:05] <cbx33> tcm
[09:05] <cbx33> https://beta.launchpad.net/tcm
[09:05] <ddaa> okay
[09:05] <cbx33> now although trunk was there 
[09:06] <cbx33> it was showing as not scanned yet
[09:06] <cbx33> right?
[09:06] <ddaa> so you did "bzr push" to create this branch
[09:06] <ddaa> checked the page on launchpad, that is
[09:06] <ddaa> https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~petesavage/+branch/tcm/trunk
[09:06] <cbx33> https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~petesavage/+branch/tcm/trunk
[09:06] <ddaa> and saw it was "not scanned yet"
[09:06] <cbx33> right !
[09:07] <cbx33> ok
[09:07] <cbx33> so i saw that was not scanned
[09:07] <cbx33> but then the tcm trunk branch showed nothing to say it was linked inany way
[09:07] <ddaa> right
[09:07] <cbx33> so icreated main in tcm and linked it to my branch
[09:07] <ddaa> okay
[09:07] <ddaa> gotcha
[09:07] <cbx33> sorry
[09:08] <ddaa> so, you see the orange square on the right hand side with "Subscribe" written in it?
[09:08] <ddaa> s/right/left/
[09:08] <ddaa> on the left hand side
[09:08] <cbx33> on which page?
[09:08] <cbx33> oh yes
[09:08] <ddaa> https://code.beta.launchpad.net/~petesavage/+branch/tcm/trunk
[09:08] <cbx33> got it
[09:09] <ddaa> below it, there is a grey bar with no text and a little downwards pointing triangle
[09:09] <ddaa> click on that little grey bar
[09:09] <cbx33> got it
[09:09] <ddaa> what do you read there?
[09:10] <cbx33> Author me, product: tcm
[09:10] <ddaa> okay...
[09:10] <cbx33> ahhh now i remember what I was fully trying to do
[09:10] <ddaa> cbx33: go on
[09:10] <cbx33> I wanted this to become https://beta.launchpad.net/tcm/trunk
[09:10] <ddaa> right
[09:11] <cbx33> is that sensible?
[09:11] <ddaa> so, what did you do?
[09:11] <cbx33> i mean dose that make sense?
[09:11] <ddaa> that's a very sensible thing to do
[09:11] <cbx33> well that's when i decided that if I couoldn't "see" a way to link it
[09:11] <cbx33> i'd create one with a more demanding name
[09:11] <cbx33> like main
[09:11] <cbx33> which is where the trouble got caused
[09:11] <ddaa> mh
[09:11] <ddaa> so you did _mean_ to have launchpad mirror itself?
[09:12] <cbx33> no....
[09:12] <ddaa> nobody's laughing, you are being extremely helpful
[09:12] <cbx33> my mind didn't associate the link with mirroring
[09:12] <LaserJock> cbx33: don't worry Pete, I'm just as confused
[09:12] <cbx33> just with linking
[09:12] <cbx33> i know LP mirrors
[09:12] <cbx33> but
[09:12] <cbx33> "I thought, if i link to a branch that is already on LP, it'll just link it"
[09:12] <ddaa> cbx33: can you walk me through the steps you went through to try doing this?
[09:12] <cbx33> not mirror it
[09:13] <ddaa> okay, so you went to the tcm product
[09:13] <ddaa> and registered a branch that's already on launchpad
[09:13] <ddaa> to try creating an alias
[09:13] <cbx33> yes
[09:13] <cbx33> now i see regiter release series
[09:13] <ddaa> because you expected that if you created a link with a better name, you'd have an option to make it the trunk of the product?
[09:13] <ddaa> cbx33: do not do this
[09:14] <cbx33> do i change the details of trunk?
[09:14] <cbx33> is that the real way to do this?
[09:14] <ddaa> cbx33: bingo!
[09:14] <cbx33> so simple now I know
[09:14] <cbx33> see
[09:14] <cbx33> in my mind
[09:14] <ddaa> obviously, not simple
[09:14] <cbx33> because trunk was already created....
[09:14] <cbx33> all the necessary data must have been filled in
[09:15] <cbx33> does that make sense?
[09:15] <cbx33> so i figured trunk must already be pointing to somehing
[09:15] <ddaa> makes sense
[09:15] <ddaa> the concept of "product series" in launchpad is far from intuitive
[09:16] <cbx33> indeed
[09:16] <cbx33> i'm just one little developer
[09:16] <cbx33> all the projects I tend to work on are .....mainly just me :(
[09:16] <LaserJock> heh
[09:16] <cbx33> so i have no real concept of all this massive project stuff
[09:17] <LaserJock> ok, so what's the best way of getting rid of a product and a team? mail launchpad-users?
[09:17] <ddaa> cbx33: if https://beta.launchpad.net/tcm/ showed that trunk has no VCS info set
[09:17] <Fujitsu> cbx33, I'm sure you can pull in more devs for this one!
[09:17] <ddaa> in the Timeline thing, do you think that would have helped?
[09:17] <cbx33> where is that?
[09:17] <cbx33> url and screen are for eyes to peek?
[09:17] <ddaa> https://beta.launchpad.net/tcm/
[09:18] <ddaa> grey block on the bottom left
[09:18] <ddaa> do you think it would have helped to have something that says that it has no version control info set?
[09:18] <ddaa> in this little grey block?
[09:18] <cbx33> yes
[09:18] <cbx33> definitely
[09:18] <ddaa> I guess you had seen that block.
[09:18] <cbx33> yes i had
[09:19] <cbx33> and cliecked on the link
[09:19] <ddaa> Or did you infer the existence of the trunk series from something else?
[09:19] <ddaa> and it says "No revision details recorded"
[09:19] <cbx33> but had not made the link in my head that editing this would give me the chance to change what I wanted
[09:20] <cbx33> aye that it does, but my mind blurred that with...the 
[09:20] <cbx33> "this hasn't been scanned yet" to produce a similar blurry error
[09:20] <cbx33> does that make sense?
[09:20] <ddaa> absolutely
[09:20] <cbx33> perhaps a RED box
[09:20] <cbx33> oh it is red
[09:20] <cbx33> no...hehe
[09:20] <ddaa> actually, I have a patch in the pipe to make it less red
[09:20] <cbx33> that obvisouly did nothing for my mind
[09:20] <ddaa> and less verbose
[09:21] <cbx33> instead
[09:21] <cbx33> can i make a suggestiong
[09:21] <ddaa> there's a lot of nonsense below that box
[09:21] <ddaa> cbx33: please do
[09:21] <cbx33> in the red box ... instead of stating the obvious...
[09:21] <cbx33> why not have a message saying...
[09:22] <cbx33> No version control information has been added YET!, Why not add it here
[09:22] <cbx33> with a link
[09:22] <cbx33> my mind skips the grey text
[09:22] <ddaa> Point
[09:22] <cbx33> espcially when i started seeing SVN and CVS
[09:22] <cbx33> i was after Bazaar
[09:22] <ddaa> people scan for blue text
[09:23] <cbx33> does that make sense?
[09:23] <ddaa> that does make a lot of sense
[09:23] <cbx33> is there an information leaflet for LP?
[09:23] <ddaa> as in something to hand over at PyCon?
[09:24] <cbx33> as in...what is a release branch
[09:24] <cbx33> what is a milestone
[09:24] <cbx33> what is a series
[09:24] <cbx33> why should i use them
[09:24] <cbx33> how should I organise my project
[09:24] <ddaa> mh...
[09:24] <cbx33> perhaps a page with a simple 1. 2. 3. steps to staring your project in LP, and then where to go to get more detailed info
[09:25] <cbx33> granted people won't want to know all that to begin with
[09:25] <cbx33> but
[09:25] <ddaa> Please post the stuff you said starting with "information leaflet" to the launchpad-users mailing list.
[09:25] <cbx33> they can find out the basics to get started...and get started the RIGHT WAY
[09:25] <ddaa> We've got a new doc writer in the team. And this sort of requests are very interesting.
[09:25] <cbx33> then they can get more detailed information as the go through
[09:25] <cbx33> I'd love to know how to manage my project effectively....
[09:25] <ddaa> Get your point.
[09:25] <cbx33> I just chuck a bar branch up there cos I get told to
[09:25] <ddaa> But there are many use cases.
[09:25] <cbx33> indeed there are
[09:26] <ddaa> why have you been told to put a branch on lp?
[09:26] <cbx33> because someone wants a place for the source to live
[09:26] <ddaa> sorry to ask so many questions, but I have very little clue WTF people are using launchpad...
[09:26] <ddaa> and how they experience it
[09:27] <cbx33> taht's cool
[09:27] <cbx33> I'm working on edubuntu
[09:27] <ddaa> cbx33: so you were a bzr user
[09:27] <cbx33> i use it rarely....
[09:27] <ddaa> okay, and ogra told you "hey bugger where's your code, I cannot find it on Launchpad!"
[09:27] <cbx33> i really do just fumble my way through things....
[09:27] <cbx33> heheh
[09:27] <cbx33> wow....has ogra been talking to you hehehehe
[09:28] <ddaa> I know ogra since before he joined canonical
[09:28] <cbx33> ogra is a cool guy :)
[09:28] <cbx33> my mentor....though he'll never admit it
[09:28] <cbx33> ha ha
[09:28] <ddaa> when he was an enthusiatic community member with a crazy plan about making a database of hardware used with ubuntu
[09:28] <ddaa> yeah, we spent a lot of time chatting outside of hotels
[09:28] <ddaa> having cigarettes
[09:28] <cbx33> well one day...I hope to work alongside you guys properly in a full time job
[09:29] <cbx33> i would love to do OSS all day
[09:29] <cbx33> the school I work at can be such a drag
[09:29] <ddaa> and a lot of time chatting through the bottom of glasses :)
[09:29] <cbx33> hehe
[09:29] <cbx33> so ddaa mind if I ask you some questions now?
[09:29] <ddaa> ah... school
[09:29] <cbx33> yeh
[09:29] <ddaa> soooooo glad I got out of it
[09:29] <ddaa> and got to do something actually useful
[09:29] <cbx33> very soul destroying 
[09:30] <cbx33> wow...you make me feel so uch better about my job :p
[09:30] <ddaa> Ha you are like, a teacher?
[09:30] <cbx33> no
[09:30] <cbx33> Network Manager
[09:30] <cbx33> but I want out
[09:30] <cbx33> and fast
[09:30] <cbx33> been there almost 3 years now
[09:30] <ddaa> hehe, I can understand that
[09:30] <ddaa> sysadmin in a school if often not a good place to be
[09:31] <cbx33> well i get a little time to work on edubuntu
[09:31] <cbx33> but ideally i would love to work on it full time
[09:31] <ddaa> I guess having ogra as your mentor is a sensible way to try getting there.
[09:32] <cbx33> indeed
[09:32] <cbx33> so anyway#
[09:32] <ddaa> What do you mean to ask me about?
[09:32] <cbx33> got time for a question or two?
[09:32] <cbx33> i want to know how people develop/build their projects, from a coding POV
[09:33] <ddaa> hu?
[09:33] <cbx33> i use python generally
[09:33] <ddaa> that's a _very_ broad question
[09:33] <cbx33> hear me out
[09:33] <cbx33> :p
[09:33] <cbx33> now....I've never been taught a proper way to organise things
[09:33] <cbx33> and I sure as hell would like one
[09:33] <cbx33> so currently
[09:34] <cbx33> i tend to develop code by editing the files as they are in ther operating system....as if the pacakge were installed
[09:34] <cbx33> then pulling them all out again to pull into a bzr branch or tarball
[09:34] <ddaa> mh
[09:34] <cbx33> i trust thats a bad idea
[09:34] <ddaa> go on
[09:34] <cbx33> so I'm hoping to gleam a way others work
[09:34] <ddaa> I see
[09:35] <cbx33> to improve my skills and performace
[09:35] <ddaa> So there's a great thing with python
[09:35] <ddaa> that it cares very little _where_ the stuff is installed generally
[09:35] <cbx33> true
[09:36] <ddaa> I guess that your application has like a script that starts with #!/usr/bin/env python or something
[09:36] <cbx33> yeh
[09:36] <cbx33> kinda
[09:36] <ddaa> and a number of other .py files (modules)
[09:36] <cbx33> yes
[09:37] <ddaa> so... a good way to organize things
[09:37] <ddaa> is to have a _very_ minimal script
[09:37] <ddaa> that basically just imports some module, and calls a function in there.
[09:37] <cbx33> yup
[09:38] <cbx33> which is generally how i work
[09:38] <ddaa> maybe doing some other stuff, like setting sys.path, respawing python if you need a more recent version etc... but most script do not need this.
[09:38] <cbx33> just with things like images in the share directory etc
[09:38] <ddaa> mh
[09:38] <cbx33> some paths are hardcoded
[09:38] <cbx33> to /usr/share/something
[09:39] <ddaa> so, it's a problem of integration with your gui toolkit?
[09:40] <cbx33> well
[09:40] <ddaa> you have some custom icons, and are not sure how to use them without installing them in the system?
[09:40] <cbx33> yes i suppose
[09:40] <cbx33> and glade files etc
[09:40] <ddaa> cbx33: I do not have direct experience with those problems
[09:40] <ddaa> but I guess
[09:41] <ddaa> that if you look in the documentation of distutils, you'll find instruction about how to deal with auxilliary data files
[09:41] <cbx33> ok
[09:41] <cbx33> it's just that you know sometimes you can change things to make it work in a single tree
[09:42] <cbx33> and then when you come to pacakge up for installation you forget to tak bits out
[09:42] <cbx33> or bits are wrong
[09:42] <cbx33> and it complicates matters
[09:42] <cbx33> i will take a closer look into it
[09:42] <thumper> ddaa: morning
[09:42] <thumper> cbx33: sorry for butting in
[09:42] <cbx33> np thumper 
[09:42] <cbx33> I'm just off on a random spree
[09:42] <cbx33> just to better myself
[09:43] <thumper> ddaa: truncate revision history is *much* harder with full ancestry
[09:43] <thumper> but I think I have it#
[09:43] <ddaa> thumper: yes it is :)
[09:43] <cbx33> thanks ddaa
[09:43] <thumper> just need to write tests to confirm expected behaviour
[09:43] <cbx33> will mail the list later
[09:43] <ddaa> cbx33: you're most welcome
[09:43] <ddaa> thumper: in my review mail I outline an algorithm that should work
[09:44] <cbx33> hope at least some of my feedback was helpful
[09:44] <thumper> jml and I are cross merging our branches
[09:44] <thumper> ddaa: I have an algorithm that works :)
[09:44] <ddaa> thumper: I look at what the two of you did yesterday
[09:44] <cbx33> maybe I'll write a book on project management for Ubuntu
[09:44] <cbx33> :p
[09:44] <thumper> I'd like you to look it over later
[09:44] <ddaa> thumper: I am actually starting to dogpile on it myself
[09:44] <thumper> eh?
[09:44] <ddaa> thumper: I started a branch-scanner-optim branch
[09:45] <thumper> ah
[09:45] <ddaa> that will skip consistency check for things already in the history
[09:45] <ddaa> that should help a lot with import branches
[09:45] <thumper> ddaa: I think that the scanner should not rely solely on sqlobject
[09:45] <thumper> as some of the branches (like, oh, python) have heaps of revisions
[09:45] <ddaa> then it should later be upgraded to use the complete-revisions stuff to skip consistency checks for things already in the ancestry
[09:45] <thumper> and we don't want to create 40000 objects in the cache
[09:46] <thumper> and looking for them one at a time is madness
[09:46] <ddaa> thumper: I suggest sqlobject should go out and burn
[09:46] <thumper> ddaa: anyway, I'll finish the truncate history changes, and tests, and push my branch up again
[09:47] <ddaa> but in the meantime, I think we're stuck with it, unless you can convince SteveA or lifeless to direct db access in this script.
[09:47] <thumper> I have a branch available on devpad too with the same name as jml
[09:47] <ddaa> I do not need convincing :)
[09:47] <thumper> it isn't yet listed as work in progress
[09:47] <ddaa> thumper: yes, I looked at it
[09:47] <thumper> I talked with SteveA last night
[09:47] <thumper> and mentioned that I was doing direct sql in the truncate history
[09:47] <thumper> initially he said "you shouldn't need to do that"
[09:47] <ddaa> I saw the amazingly complicated script you wrote to create about 10 rows of BranchRevision sampledata...
[09:48] <thumper> but I think the convincing arguement is not materialising 10s of thousands of objects
[09:48] <thumper> ddaa: :)
[09:48] <thumper> I'm reusing part of that for the real work
[09:48] <ddaa> tsk, not tdd!
[09:48] <thumper> ideas, not cut and paste
[09:49] <ddaa> basically, my idea of the algorithm, goes something like this
[09:49] <ddaa> 1. delete all the BranchRevision for revisions no longer in the ancestry
[09:50] <ddaa> 2. figure out the common mainline ancestor, and delete remaining BranchRevision after it
[09:50] <ddaa> 3. add new mainline BranchRevision after it
[09:51] <ddaa> 4. add new BranchRevision that are missing (that should probably involve keeping a list of revision-ids to add, starting from the first listing of BranchRevision at the begging)
[09:52] <thumper> ddaa: now I feel stupid
[09:52] <ddaa> thumper: something wrong?
[09:52] <thumper> I've been doing all this purely using the information in the database
[09:52] <thumper> given that the branchscanner is the only thing that updates the branchrevision table and revision
[09:52] <thumper> then we should be using bzrlib ancestry stuff
[09:52] <thumper> and I'm not
[09:52] <ddaa> well, you need to compare the info in the db with the info in the bzr branch, that's the main purpose in life for the branch scanner.
[09:52] <thumper> that makes it shit loads simpler
[09:53] <thumper> I guess I was trying not to step on jml's toes by staying away from the scanner
[09:54] <ddaa> thumper: there's certainly a use for the BranchRevisionSet thing
[09:55] <thumper> yes there is
[09:55] <ddaa> for example, that's probably what the branch-scanner would be talking to to update the db
[09:55] <thumper> but handling complex history truncation isn't it
[09:55] <thumper> ddaa: yes, I agree with the talking thing
[09:55] <thumper> I didn't like the methods living in the branch
[09:55] <ddaa> okay... looking forward to look at your new code :)
[10:05] <ddaa> hey mrevell
[10:05] <mrevell> ddaa: Hi David
[10:06] <ddaa> you missed a very interesting chat with a launchpad user
[10:06] <mrevell> ddaa: Ah, damn, really?
[10:07] <ddaa> mrevell: between cbx33 and me. I got him to give me a retrospective "hallway usability test" of some bit of launchpad.
[10:07] <mrevell> ddaa: got a transcript?
[10:07] <ddaa> and he ended up asking for some specific documentation for best practices using launchpad
[10:07] <ddaa> Will send you one.
[10:11] <thumper> mrevell: about fix it friday
[10:11] <mrevell> ddaa: thanks
[10:12] <mrevell> thumper: yeah?
[10:12] <thumper> mrevell: I'm working on some critical stuff for pycon, so won't be fixing anything particular
[10:12] <ddaa> mrevell: same thing for me
[10:12] <thumper> except working on complete branch ancestry stuff
[10:12] <mrevell> thumper: ok :)
[10:12] <mrevell> ddaa: And ok too :)
[10:12] <ddaa> we're all dogpiling for the low-latency supermirror stuff
[10:12] <ddaa> and leveraging the amazing merging powers of bzr :)
[10:12] <thumper> ddaa: what do you mean by dogpiling?
[10:13] <thumper> ddaa: btw, I've changed my complex computational algorithm to about 20 lines in bzrsync
[10:13] <ddaa> thumper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_prank#Pile-on
[10:13] <thumper> ddaa: thanks
[10:14] <thumper> sort of makes sense now
[10:14] <ddaa> it's probably some idiom introduced here by lifeless
[10:15] <ddaa> http://www.abouttimeacres.com/images/DogpileW.jpg
[10:15] <cbx33> hey mrevell 
[10:16] <mrevell> cbx33: hey hey
[10:16] <cbx33> howz it going
[10:16] <mrevell> cbx33: Not bad - just finishing off writing my presentation for Skycon, Sunday
[10:16] <mrevell> you?
[10:17] <cbx33> yeh going good....
[10:17] <cbx33> managed to cock up on LP :)
[10:17] <cbx33> hence the fantastic feedback :p
[10:18] <cbx33> General Question:  can i ask, the series details....the select branch link......what should i enter for search criteria
[10:18] <cbx33> I just get null results all the time
[10:19] <cbx33> ddaa what am I supposed to put in that box to link up the trunk like we discussed
[10:20] <ddaa> cbx33: you should be able to put whatever
[10:20] <cbx33> well the search turned up nothing for tcm
[10:20] <cbx33> or thin client manager
[10:20] <cbx33> I'll pu a url in there
[10:20] <ddaa> like the url of the branch page, that should work
[10:20] <ddaa> I think...
[10:21] <cbx33> nope
[10:21] <cbx33> wwrrrong
[10:21] <cbx33> hehe
[10:21] <ddaa> okay, then the url of the branch itself
[10:21] <cbx33> Invalid value
[10:21] <ddaa> that WILL work, I know
[10:21] <cbx33> hehe ok
[10:21] <cbx33> can we claify that in the text?
[10:21] <cbx33> like give an example?
[10:21] <ddaa> the canonical value here is the branch unique name
[10:22] <ddaa> like ~savage/tcm/trunk
[10:22] <cbx33> ahh i see
[10:22] <cbx33> ok got it
[10:22] <cbx33> thanks ddaa
[10:23] <ddaa> mrevell: sent
[10:24] <ddaa> cbx33: actually it should all work better... like you should definitely be able to paste the url of a launchpad page
[10:24] <ddaa> no help text...
[10:24] <cbx33> the search is .... sorry....useless
[10:25] <ddaa> right
[10:25] <ddaa> very useless
[10:26] <cbx33> is there any chance of a generic search box?
[10:27] <ddaa> dunno... I'd love it too...
[10:27] <cbx33> so it searches everything
[10:27] <ddaa> cbx33: some people use google to search launchpad
[10:27] <ddaa> launchpad is very google-friendy
[10:27] <ddaa> friendly
[10:27] <cbx33> excellent
[10:30] <LaserJock> mrevell: got a sec?
[10:30] <jamesh> cbx33: there is plans for more global search features in the new LP user interface
[10:30] <cbx33> nice
[10:30] <jamesh> cbx33: I am not sure how developed the back end code is
[10:31] <cbx33> cool
[10:32] <mrevell> hey, cbx33, LaserJock - sorry guys, I got into a conversation in RL :)
[10:32] <mrevell> cbx, LaserJock: Is it okay if I catch up with you tomorrow>
[10:32] <cbx33> heeh
[10:32] <cbx33> np
[10:32] <mrevell> :) Thanks
[10:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85432 in launchpad "Deactivated products and projects show up in search results and can be traversed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85432
[11:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #85433 in launchpad "Deactivated products and projects can be traversed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85433
[11:30] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[11:32] <ajmitch> hi
[11:33] <LaserJock> hola mpt 
[11:39] <mpt> ddaa, I've just been reading your discussion with cbx33 
[11:39] <ddaa> mpt: listening
[11:40] <mpt> I'm not sure that I understand it
[11:40] <mpt> but it looks like one ambulance at the bottom of the cliff would be for when you try to register a branch that's hosted on launchpad.net, Launchpad to say "waaaaaait a minute, I already know about that one"
[11:42] <LarstiQ> is that about mirroring launchpad hosted branches?
[11:42] <ddaa> LarstiQ: something like this
[11:42] <ddaa> mpt: there are severals bugs here
[11:43] <ddaa> mpt: one bug is the latency of supermirror-hosted branches
[11:43] <ddaa> leading the user to see the "branch has not been scanned yet"
[11:44] <ddaa> another bug is the look of the series page when there are no VCS details
[11:44] <ddaa> the red stuff is too prominent, has no link in it to fix easily
[11:44] <mpt> red stuff?
[11:44] <ddaa> "NO VERSION CONTROL DETAILS FOR THIS SERIES OH MY GOD"
[11:45] <mpt> haha
[11:45] <ddaa> and is followed by some gibberish starting with mentions of CVS or SVN
[11:45] <ddaa> and no mention of bzr
[11:45] <ddaa> I actually have a branch in the pipe to fix that somewhere
[11:45] <mpt> ok
[11:45] <ddaa> ah yes, that's the hct-cleanup thing
[11:46] <ddaa> that I needed to rewrite after lifeless asked me not to delete some page
[11:46] <ddaa> should look at it again
[11:46] <LarstiQ> ddaa: it is something else I see more frequently than I'd expect
[11:46] <mpt> ddaa, it seems like another problem was that there was no way to make an existing series the trunk.
[11:46] <ddaa> not really
[11:47] <ddaa> the problem was just that the eyes of the user just glazed over this stuff
[11:47] <ddaa> and thought it was an error with already entered vcs data
[11:47] <ddaa> so he thought "ha there's already a series there, I need to create another one for me"
[11:48] <ddaa> or something like that...
[11:48] <mpt> What is the rationale for creating a dummy trunk in the first place?
[11:48] <ddaa> another problem, is that there is no way to assign the branch to a productseries from the branch page
[11:49] <ddaa> and also, in the beta UI, the link between a branch and the product is hidden in collapsed portlet that has no title
[11:49] <ddaa> so you REALLY have to know it's there to find any clue that this branch is in this product
[11:49] <mpt> poooooooortlet
[11:49] <ddaa> actually, I think we should move branch pages to be under product instead of being under person
[11:49] <mpt> that would be great
[11:49] <ddaa> putting it under person was a silly idea for which I take full blame.
[11:50] <ddaa> and FINALLY
[11:50] <lifeless> what about branches for distros
[11:50] <lifeless> ?
[11:50] <ddaa> there's the known problem that launchpad allow user to enter such nonsensical data as branch url
[11:50] <ddaa> lifeless: yes, what about them?
[11:50] <lifeless> trolling
[11:50] <lifeless> sorry
[11:51] <ddaa> lifeless: last time we talked about it, you said we should not do it before <some undeterminate future thing> was supported
[11:51] <mpt> Mark mentioned to me once that he thought a distro's Code facet should show its packages
[11:51] <ddaa> lifeless: don't troll me about distro branches
[11:51] <mpt> I didn't know there was such a thing as distribution branches
[11:51] <ddaa> mpt: there is not
[11:51] <ddaa> and it's a problem
[11:51] <lifeless> mpt: theres a branch around somewhere that adds them
[11:52] <lifeless> its a TODO
[11:52] <mpt> for derivation purposes?
[11:52] <lifeless> so product branches
[11:52] <lifeless> https://code.beta.launchpad.net/subunit/
[11:52] <lifeless> thats fine
[11:52] <ddaa> mpt: I'd be glad if you could be so helpful as filing bugs for those various problems
[11:52] <ddaa> on launchpad-bazaar
[11:52] <mpt> ok
[11:52] <lifeless> but https://beta.launchpad.net/subunit/trunk has no link to code
[11:52] <lifeless> which is confusing, as it has at least one branch associated with it
[11:52] <ddaa> some of them are probably already filed, but I'll check for dups later
[11:53] <lifeless> mpt: no, for development purposes
[11:53] <ddaa> mpt: it's just that I'm going to bed soon, and I'll forgot about this discussion tomorrow
[11:53] <lifeless> mpt: have you seen the ubuntu PackagesInBzr page ?
[11:54] <mpt> no
[11:54] <mpt> "This page does not exist yet"
[11:54] <lifeless> one sec
[11:54] <lifeless> finding the right name
[11:55] <lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrMaintainedPackages
[11:56] <ddaa> never heard of this page before
[11:57] <ddaa> should read the pages it links to later
[11:57] <ddaa> it is sort of HIGHLY relevant to my work...
[11:59] <lifeless> mpt: add a test for that
[11:59] <mpt> What's "grep" in python? :-)
[11:59] <ddaa> and send it as [trivial]  ;)
[11:59] <lifeless> mpt: subprocess.Subprocess(['grep', '...'] ).communicate()
[12:00] <mpt> aha
[12:00] <ddaa> gah! subprocess.call!
[12:00] <lifeless> mpt: (thats the cheapest way, you can get more elegant
[12:00] <lifeless> ddaa: or that
[12:00] <ddaa> not subprocess.Subprocess.communicate!
[12:00] <mpt> e.g. "The following branch has been registered as the mainline branch for this product series:" (before branch) -> "This is the mainline branch for the series." (after branch)
[12:00] <lifeless> ddaa: but call does not give the output
[12:00] <lifeless> ddaa: a failing test like this has to give the output
[12:01] <ddaa> too late here to troll with you
[12:02] <mpt> >>> "the following" in *
[12:02] <mpt> False
[12:06] <cbx33> nn guys