keescookseb128: I've got a built vte (was about to test the fix for #85023), are you working on this too?12:17
seb128keescook: nop, it's midnight and I was just sending the summary for the weekly meeting before going to bed :p12:18
seb128keescook: you are welcome to upload a fixed package for that ;)12:18
keescookokay, cool.  I'll get ubuntu2 uploaded.  :)12:18
seb128bug #85023 (probably the screen problem)12:19
UbugtuMalone bug 85023 in vte "Screen corruption when used with screen" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8502312:19
seb128keescook: thank you, once it's uploaded try to convince tfheen to accept it for herd4 maybe ;)12:19
keescookI'll leave that to you.  ;)12:19
seb128though it's not really required for the CD12:20
seb128that's a command line corner case and people are likely to pick the update after herd4 anyway12:20
keescookright.  I'd like to see this LVM snapshot bug fixed.  really killing me since all my builds are on snapshots.12:21
seb128good luck with that ;)12:21
seb128time for bed here12:21
seb128'night everybody, see you tomorrow12:22
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sistpotyhm... I just got a reject for gv saying that 3.6.2-2ubuntu1 <= 1:3.6.2-2... however the epoch is there in the dsc... any clues?12:31
gesersistpoty: it's bug #8520112:35
UbugtuMalone bug 85201 in soyuz "wrongly rejects epoched uploads" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8520112:35
sistpotygeser: thx... just found it :)12:35
keescookuh-oh.  Rejected: vte_0.15.3-0ubuntu2.dsc: Version older than that in the archive. 0.15.3-0ubuntu2 <= 1:0.15.3-0ubuntu112:36
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sistpotywelcome to the club keescook12:37
keescookhey, look, I can read my scrollback, I should try it some time.  :)12:37
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mjg59cjwatson: Erm. Not really. Has iopl been called?02:17
poningrudid 2.17.91 get through the freeze?02:18
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sparrwhy doesnt ubuntu have 'moving target' repository names like debian's stable/testing/unstable?  having to modify my sources every 6 months to keep up to date is hella annoying02:28
HrdwrBoBbecause you don't want to be running ubuntu unstable when it's first switched over02:32
sparrno, YOU don't want that :-p02:33
HrdwrBoBbecause your system will likely fail spectactularly02:33
sparrill be switching from feisty to gwhatever the day after feisty releases02:33
Hobbsee[12:33]  <Hobbsee> !timebasedreleases02:33
Hobbsee[12:33]  <ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases02:33
Hobbseesparr: ^02:33
sparryes, im familiar with that02:33
Hobbseesparr: no you wont, the day after feisty releases, the new release isnt even started.02:34
sparrakin to debian's named releases (etch, potato, sarge, etc)02:34
Hobbseethey do get a couple of days off, you know.02:34
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Hobbseethen you've got to wait for the toolchain02:34
sparrHobbsee: then ill be ready when it happens :-p02:34
Hobbseego ahead.  as long as you file bugs, of course02:35
sparri do02:35
sparrwhen a new driver or library comes out, i cant wait 6 months for it02:36
sparri cant imagine anyone moving from debian unstable to ubuntu NOT doing what im doing02:37
=== Hobbsee can
HrdwrBoBthey are so used to their systems breaking spectacularly every six months?02:37
=== Hobbsee notes that sparr sounds like a gentoo user.
HrdwrBoBor more frequently?02:37
Hobbseesparr: did you run feisty in the first few weeks of it's development?02:38
sparrHobbsee: yes, ish02:38
Ngsparr: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/grumpy-groundhog02:38
sparri didnt dist-upgrade02:38
sparri get my feisty one dependency at a time02:38
sparrmy system is probably at least 80% edgy still02:38
Hobbseethat's just insanity.02:39
sparrHrdwrBoB: the breakage isnt so bad, and well worth it02:39
sparrive only encountered two broken packages so far02:39
sparrboth already bug'd when i found them02:39
Hobbseesparr: only getting part of feisty is not the same as a new feisty, where all the core stuff is changing too02:39
sparrvery true02:40
sparrif and when i want the core stuff, ill upgrade it02:40
sparri think flash 9 was the first thing i wanted that wasnt in edgy02:40
Ngif you're just cherry picking a few apps and libs though, one global s&r in one config file twice a year doesn't seem to quite fit "hella annoying" ;)02:41
sparrNg: ok, mildly annoying :-p02:41
sparrNg: more so, because i dont remember to do it until the first time i try to upgrade something and i realize a new version is out02:44
sparrjust a random idea...  why not have aliases in the repository...  one points to the last LTS release, one to the last release, and one to the latest dev02:45
sparrnot exactly the same as debian, but thats not neccessarily a bad thing02:45
Hobbseesparr: because of the extra work.  and the idea of freezes then get thrown out the window.02:46
bddebianWhy don't you just run Deian then? :)02:46
=== Hobbsee --> out
bddebianErr debian even02:46
Hobbseebddebian: gentoo, really.02:46
Ngit kinda invites disaster for people who have them set to that without realising the implications and happily let update-manager to a dist-upgrade02:47
bddebianAh, better02:47
sparrbddebian: because i like kubuntu's out of the box software integration better02:47
bddebianSo either you live with it or you switch :-)02:47
sparrfor a long time i was torn between debian and gentoo...02:47
sparrubuntu improved on debian in a few key ways, enough to overcome the few failings like the instant case...  so now it would be ubuntu vs gentoo02:48
sparrbut gentoo's cutting edge is TOO broken for my tastes02:48
sparrand the default configuration is poor.  getting a "complete" desktop experience set up like [k] ubuntu provides takes far more time than its worth02:49
Hobbseesparr: so's the first few weeks of the development release, btw02:49
Hobbseevery cutting, very broken02:49
sparri like being able to plug in a usb drive and it auto mounts and i get a prompt about what to do.  i like having 'burn' as a context menu item for ISO files.  i like http links in my irc client opening the right browser, usually.02:49
sparrHobbsee: yeah, but i dont encounter those02:50
sparrHobbsee: the things i want to upgrade are rarely dependent on the things that are very broken02:50
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poningru - updated demotions02:50
Hobbseesparr: if you want to run the latest release all the time, then you're going to be upgrading *everything*02:50
poningruwhat does that mean?02:50
Hobbseeincluding stuff that breaks02:50
Hobbseeponingru: demotions from main to universe02:51
poningruwhat are demotions?02:51
poningruah gotcha02:51
sparrHobbsee: sure, but thats not what i want.02:51
Hobbseethat's mostly what you're saying02:51
=== Hobbsee --> really out
sparrnot at all02:51
sistpotywell... if you dist-upgrade fast enough, it's safe, because nothing is broken yet... however I guess we're getting quite offtopic here02:51
sparri want ACCESS to the latest version of every package02:51
sparrheh, i want to know how he can get a 104 that fast...  i have to time out to get one02:52
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bddebiansparr: Just grab the latest upstreams and build yourself :-)02:58
sparrbddebian: heh, i do that for a few packages, stuff i have patches for03:00
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RohintonHI why do we build so many full distro's would it not be better to have 1 base and then have the GUI ( G,K,X ) applied after?03:34
BurgundaviaRohinton: we don't. The package building is a seperate process to the ISO building03:35
LaserJockRohinton: they all come from the same repo, it's not really that different than what you are saying03:41
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sparri think Rohinton's issue is more one of perception04:02
sparrkubuntu, ubuntu, xubuntu sound very different04:02
sparrthey would come together in peoples minds more as ubuntu-g, ubuntu-k, ubuntu-x04:02
sparror any other scheme where they all start with the same letter (to be blunt)04:03
Rohintonyes - 04:03
RohintonI would like to download a base and then after the live-cd is running or installed be prompted for the gui system...04:04
sparrim curious how much space each GUI takes up...  if someone tried to make a k+g+x ubuntu livecd, how much would they have to sacrifice to squeeze it all onto one disc?04:04
sparri am doubtful that there is 700MB worth of kde-specific stuff on the kubuntu disc04:04
HrdwrBoBwhat you really want04:05
RohintonHmm, but the contents would have to be reviewed as they are all 690+....04:05
HrdwrBoBis a button that says 'install KDE'04:05
HrdwrBoB'install gnome'04:05
HrdwrBoB'install XFCE'04:05
Burgundaviasparr: you couldn't do it04:06
sparrinstall edu (less likely, the edubuntu disc probably has the most unique packages compared to the others)04:06
Burgundaviayou can look at the seeds yourself04:06
sparrim a fan of the debian net-install...  boot off a single floppy, or at worst a very very small iso image, and get everything off the network  :)04:07
sparrobviously i see the advantages to the ubuntu method04:07
sparrhaving to pick a gui at iso download time is odd, but not killer04:08
sparrimho the biggest problem is just the names04:08
zulsparr: what you really want is gentoo, I believe that channel is #gentoo04:08
sparrthe layman is used to mac os 7, os 8, os 9, os 1004:08
sparrwindows 95, windows 98, windows xp, windows vista04:08
sparrubuntu foo, ubuntu bar, ubuntu baz would make a lot more sense to common people than foobuntu, barubuntu, bazubuntu04:08
=== sparr trademarkes foobuntu
Burgundavialikely trademarked04:09
Burgundaviaand there is nothing too different from Kubuntu and Ubuntu from os 9 and os 1004:09
sparrright...  so why are the names "so different"?04:10
sparrbluntly, having different first letters means they show up different places on a list.  and they go in different little pockets in your mind.04:10
sparrthink of it from a marketing perspective04:10
sparri see a kubuntu flyer, and then later hear something about ubuntu04:11
sparror about xubuntu04:11
sparri am unlikely to make the connection.  at worst, i might think one is a ripoff of the other04:11
Burgundaviathey are different products04:11
sparrbut if they were ubuntu-k and ubuntu-x, the relationship would be a lot more intuitive04:11
sparrbut they are both ubuntu04:12
Burgundaviaand twice as ugly04:12
Burgundaviano, they are Xubuntu, Kubuntu and Ubuntu04:12
sparrits about mindshare04:12
Burgundaviathey are different products and are marketed as such04:12
sparri disagree.04:12
Burgundaviaand anyway, this is off topic and the names are not going to change04:12
Burgundaviano matter how much we bikeshed04:12
sparrkubuntu and ubuntu are far more similar than redhat desktop and redhat enterprise server04:12
sparrand yet the redhat name is at least twice as memorable with their scheme than with ours04:13
_ionAnd the scientific method used to conclude the memorability to be  2.0 times better was which?04:14
sparrthe current names foster an environment that seems to say "come try kubuntu!" "no, come try ubuntu!" which is counterproductive.  the message we need to be sending is "come try some variant of ubuntu!  take your pick"04:14
sparr_ion: a dartboard.  happy?  do you actually disagree with the conclusion or just the method?04:14
_ionUbuntu and Kubuntu are totally fine names for the products IMO.04:15
sparrshow someone an ad for redhat desktop, then ask if they have ever heard of redhat server.  then show someone an ubuntu ad, and ask if they have ever heard of kubuntu.  the precise answer is "no" in both cases, but the connotation is VERY different04:16
RohintonHmm, the different names do they signify more that just a different UI?04:16
sparrRohinton: nope04:16
sparrRohinton: all they are is a different default set of packages.  converting one to the other is just a matter of installing a single metapackage04:17
sparr_ion: im not saying the names are bad, per se...  for established products they would be great.  but ubuntu is in desperate need of mindshare, and this naming scheme doesnt help with that.04:18
Chipzzsparr: why are you second-guessing the whole community + canonical?04:18
Chipzzoh for crying out loud04:18
_ion"Ubuntu is in desperate need of mindshare", HUH?04:18
sparrChipzz: i doubt i am.  first, Rohinton brought it up, not me.  second, im almost certain i could use google to find this same point made a dozen times.04:18
sparr_ion: youre familiar with bug #1?04:18
Chipzzreality-check: ubuntu is VERY MUCH NOT in need of mindshare04:18
UbugtuMalone bug 1 in ichthux "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104:18
Chipzzsparr: have you checked distrowatch lately?04:19
sparrChipzz: on occassion.  why?04:19
Chipzzwhere the hell is the distro top ten on distrowatch...04:20
sparr'major distributions'04:20
sparrat the top04:20
sparri know ubuntu is #104:20
sparrthats irrelevant04:20
Chipzzno it is NOT?04:20
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sparrim talking about the real world, not the "people savvy enough to visit distrowatch" subset04:20
Chipzzyou're an idiot if you claim ubuntu is in need of mindshare and it's no1 at distrowatch04:21
sparrwalk down the street04:21
sparrask people if they have heard of windows04:21
sparrthen ask if they have heard of ubuntu04:21
_ionYes, changing the name of Kubuntu to Ubuntu-K would instantly convert all the Windows users to Ubuntu and Ubuntu-K.04:21
Chipzz_ion: yeah :)04:21
sparri gave out kubuntu cds for christmas.  a few people converted.  a few tried it and went back to windows.  plenty used them as coasters, im sure.04:22
Chipzzsparr: linux in general is in need of mindshare vs windows04:22
sparrthat middle group are the ones im talking about04:22
sparra year from now when they hear something awesome about ubuntu, do you think they are going to connect it with kubuntu?04:22
Chipzzsparr: but ubuntu is very much not in need of mindshare vs other distro's04:22
Chipzzs/vs/compared to/04:22
sparrwhen i see ubuntu vs kubuntu, i think iMac vs Emac (as in emachines, not the educational mac).  a theme ripoff with a similar name.04:23
_ionI think sparr has received too much mindshare tonight. :-)04:23
sparrthen ignore me04:24
sparrim the reason they added /ignore to your irc client04:24
Chipzzyou're the reason they added /kickban to our irc clients :P04:24
sparrjust because you disagree doesnt make the problem go away04:24
sparrim doing my part to introduce the public to linux in general, ubuntu more precisely, kubuntu specifically.  i WANT more people using them (in that order).  since we have a marketing team, i know im not alone.04:25
sparrand this naming scheme is counter to that objective04:25
Chipzzif you think you're going to solve the problem of linux in general gaining marketshare on windows by changing kubuntu to ubuntu-k you're deleude04:26
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Chipzzbecause IT DOES NOT MATTER04:26
sparrare you saying im wrong, or that its insignificant?04:26
sparrevery single individual who tries ubuntu helps04:26
sparrevery one who sees an ad for it04:26
Chipzz*everyone* is saying you are wronge /since you entered this channel/04:27
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sparrthats a great point04:28
sparrwell, it would be, if i was the one who said this first...04:28
Chipzzdo you honestly think people are *that* retarded they cannot associate two product because one has a *prefix* wrt the other instead of a *suffix*?04:28
sparrnot retarded04:28
Chipzzboy do you have a very sad view of the world04:28
sparrin the real world, this sort of naming scheme implies ripoffs04:29
Chipzzno it does not?04:29
Chipzzwhy do I even bother04:29
sparrchanging the first letter is the easiest way to escape trademark problems, its how thousands of knockoff brands sell their products04:29
bddebianSo if I say "Windows", do I mean 3.1, NT, 95/98/ME, XP, or Vista?04:29
sparrbddebian: yes.04:29
sparrbddebian: probably xp, today.04:30
jdongbddebian: I'd assume an NT family though04:30
bddebianNo, Vista released04:30
sparryes, but its not 'there' yet  :)04:30
jdongsparr: lots of people are running it already04:30
jdongsparr: especially computer nerds04:30
bddebianMy point is, the name doesn't mean shit :-)04:30
sparrwhen you say windows, people think of xp.  when someone else says windows, they are almost certainly talking about xp04:30
jdongsparr: I see like 50% vista of windows users here :)04:30
jdong(here = MIT)04:30
sparrjdong: i know of a few similar local demographics...  even there, vista is named04:31
Chipzzjdong: ieks04:31
sparrvista is "windows vista", or "the new windows"04:31
HrdwrBoBsparr: XP is XP04:31
sparri dont think ive heard "windows" specifically referring to vista yet04:31
Chipzzsparr: but... "the new" is in front of windows!04:31
HrdwrBoBsparr: my mother in law knows what vista is.04:32
ChipzzOMG LOL!!!1!!111!11ELEVEN04:32
sparri dont think ive heard "windows" referring to anything other than xp outside of IRC in at least 5 years04:32
jdongsparr: right -- when people want to talk about Windows Vista they say Vista04:32
sparrjdong: that seems to be the norm04:32
jdongbut Windows I'd say refers to XP or 2K04:32
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jdongat least that'd be my first assumption04:33
sparr2k is my windows of choice, when im forced to use windows  :)04:33
jdongaround here I've heard a lot of 5.1.2600's.....04:33
jdongit's land of the numbers :)04:33
jdongor 5.1K04:33
jdongfor Kerberos patches04:33
jdongsparr: I like XP with the 2K theme04:33
jdongsparr: I've found XP to be faster than 2K when the theme is stripped down04:34
jdongbut multitasking is pathetic period04:34
_ionI like... Wait, i don't like any Windows. ;-)04:34
jdongCPU or IO multitasking...04:34
sparrits a matter of perception...  put in simple words...  ubuntu-k says to the average joe "the k version of ubuntu".  kubuntu says "a ripoff of ubuntu, probably by a company whose name starts with k"04:34
Chipzzsparr: even then the damage is already done04:34
Chipzzsparr: even if we were to change the names, which we are NOT, that would cause confusion/technological programs with existing users of the product04:35
sparrif someone liked ubuntu, and has a passing chance to try kubuntu, they might say no just because they expect a ripoff of ubuntu.04:35
sparror vice versa (less likely)04:35
Chipzzyes we've heard that argument like 10 times before, and it is still wrong04:35
_ionIf they already know (and even use!) Ubuntu, Ubuntu already *has* the Mindshare.04:36
sparrthe divergent advertising doesnt help either, with different color schemes and such04:36
HrdwrBoBand even if it's not it's not going to change04:36
Chipzzsparr: now you're talking COMPLETE crap04:36
Chipzzsparr: the different versions of windows vista also come in boxes with different colors04:36
sparrlook at ads or packaging for vista home, vista server, vista ultimate, vista premium, vista chipotle...  they have things in common that tell people they are heavily related04:37
Chipzzso you're saying people won't buy vista because they're confused by the different colors of the boxes?04:37
sparrthe 'background' of the box is a different color.  the vista logo is always the same.04:37
Chipzzno it's not???04:37
Chipzzit's very much the same thing04:37
Chipzzyou're talking out of your arse04:37
Chipzzoh and btw04:38
Chipzzthere's a name for it04:38
sparrthere are so many things at work.  in no particular order...  the pearl, the name "windows", the name "vista", and the name "microsoft"04:38
Chipzzit's called "product differentiation"04:38
sparrkubuntu vs ubuntu doesnt have ANY of that in common04:38
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Chipzzrepeat after me: "product differentiation"04:38
sparrproduct differentiation isnt what we have04:38
Chipzzyes it is??04:38
sparrproduct differentiation indicates that theres some common point that you diverged FROM04:39
sparrwe have vista home, and vista ultimate.  we have vista marketing material.  now, lets add something different for each version.04:39
sparrthats ass backwards to what kubuntu and ubuntu have04:39
Chipzzthe same for ubuntu???04:39
Chipzzwe have the same base for ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu04:40
Chipzzeven the same apps04:40
Chipzzit's just a matter of default installation04:40
sparrkubuntu and ubuntu start in completely different places, and maybe by chance happen to come slightly together04:40
Chipzzthese things use the bloody same repository for crying out loud!04:40
bddebianStart in different places???04:41
sparrwe are talking about advertising04:41
sparr"us" communicating to "them"04:41
jdongdoes anyone else use the term ubuntu to encompass the entire Ubuntu family of distros?04:41
=== jdong does that sometimes
sparrjdong: distrowatch seems to04:42
jdongsparr: well every ubuntu release spams DW with like 5 identical annoucements before :D04:42
sparrjdong: which is another minor issue04:42
sparrbob made a flyer for kubuntu04:43
sparrjoe made a flyer for ubuntu04:43
sparrthen maybe, if we are lucky, they talked to each other and shared some ideas so they have something in common04:43
ChipzzI'm sure canonical coordinates marketing04:44
sparrgetting into the look and feel of the ads is way outside the scope of what i was originally trying to say04:44
jdongyeah, like Ubuntu doesn't lose data when unmounting USB........ oh never mind04:44
sparrthe names themselves are counterproductive to the task of telling people about *ubuntu04:44
ivoksimho, it would be better to have something like Ubuntu G, Ubuntu K and Ubuntu X :)04:45
sparrivoks: blasphemy!  no one else agrees!  shut up!04:45
sparr</sarcasm heavy>04:45
ivoksbut now it is as it is and changing that would be even worse then leaving it as is04:45
sparri disagree04:46
sparrname changes dont have to kill a product04:46
sparrconsider iceweasel, i mean firefox, i mean firebird, i mean phoenix...04:47
ivoksit always had 'Mozilla' in front of the name of product04:47
ivoksand most of the IT clueless refer to Firefox as Mozilla04:47
ivoksyou download it from mozilla.org, hence, it's mozilla :)04:48
Chipzzphoenix wasn't known to the larger public, and ice* is not used by ubuntu04:48
Chipzzso that only leaves firebird vs firefox04:49
mptsparr, you're making a lot of sense, but in the wrong place and the wrong tone. I suggest either getting a marketing job with Canonical or writing a spec, the latter of which is probably easier.04:49
Chipzzmpt: let's for a moment suppose he is right. it is still *not going to happen*04:50
sparrmpt: its already been written and dismissed on the marketing list  :)04:50
mptChipzz, you don't know that. Lindows changed its name for similar reasons.04:50
sparrivoks: mozilla as part of the brand name has definitely not been "always".  it wasnt for phoenix.  it was for a little while for firebird.04:51
Chipzzmpt: lindows changed its name because microsoft was threatening to sue04:51
mptgah, I fell for it ... like I said, this is the wrong place.04:51
=== mpt shuts up
ivoks(is it only me or we hear lindows/freespire to ofter around here :)04:51
sparraha, thanks for the example04:51
sparrlindows/windows is a great example of the kind of thing average people think of when they see ubuntu's naming scheme04:51
Chipzzand it's a contrived example04:52
Chipzzbecause windows and lindows are *totally* *different* *products*04:52
sparrbut lindows was trying to capitalize on the windows name04:52
sparrthats exactly what people will think about aubuntu when they see bubuntu04:52
ivoksguys, let's stop... as mpt said, this is wrong place04:53
sparrnormal people dont know kubuntu and ubuntu are the same product.  my ENTIRE point is that they are going to think they are *totally* *different* *products*04:53
_ionBut, but... How could it capitalize on the Windows name? They have *different prefixes*!04:54
ChipzzI have a counterargument against that but I'm just going to shut up04:54
sparr_ion: precisely04:54
sparri posit two cases.  one, where users wont make the connection.  two, where users will make the connection, and life experience will tell them its a NEGATIVE connection.04:57
sparrvirtually no other respectable product uses ubuntu's naming scheme.  normal people see it and think "scam" or "ripoff" or "knockoff"04:58
sparrten years from now when ubuntu has taken over the world, we will be in a position to change that notion.  but today, while ubuntu needs to attract new users, its counterproductive to be under such a stigma04:59
ivoksok, stop, please04:59
ivokswe code, we don't do marketing, this is -devel place05:00
ivoksplase talk to someone else05:00
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RohintonHmm, well I asked not for the name - It did sink in that these where the same - but I was just thinking about an easier way to use ubuntu with different UIs... The download times for 3-4 iso distributions is long, also if/when they only have dvd's it may get worse?05:11
Rohintonif as suggested a button was there saying install ( X, Y, Z ) for the UI that would be nice or I could rool my own...05:12
RohintonBTW - for all thing ubuntu the name I know and understand is Ubuntu - the others don't figure for me until I get to the download site.... :-) 05:13
RohintonThat's it on that topic, from me at least.05:13
ivoksRohinton: http://www.ubuntu-hr.org/ningi05:14
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mptRohinton, afaik the Ubuntu CD is crammed full and would not have room for any Kubuntu/Xubuntu stuff, and vice versa05:21
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mptBesides which, asking people what GUI they want to use is a meaningless question to ~99.9% of the population05:21
Rohintonright - they are - I say give us smaller bits to bite...05:22
Rohintonyes - you have a point too.05:22
Rohintonbut the default of gnome seems to be good for 90% - I wonder what the download stats are for the different ISOs? - which ever seems the most popular should be the default...05:23
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Hobbseeoops, capslock05:24
Rohintonalso just looked at the dvd - 4.2 GB is an even longer download than the three CDs... :-)05:24
ivoksRohinton: well, software has size :)05:25
Hobbseeplease dont tell me you're trying to get ubuntu onto multiple cds, suse/mandriva style...05:25
ivoksHobbsee: i think no one wants that05:26
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Hobbseeivoks: oh good.  05:26
Hobbseeivoks: are you a core dev?05:26
Hobbseeby any chance?05:27
ivoksnope :)05:28
Hobbseeivoks: aww, damn05:28
Rohintonright but there are limits...05:28
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Hobbseetfheen: ping @ amarok?05:50
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Hobbseehey fabbione!06:33
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tfheenHobbsee: hiya07:21
fabbionehey tfheen 07:21
Hobbseehey tfheen :)07:21
Hobbseetfheen: when's herd4 out?07:21
LaserJock"when it's ready"? :-)07:22
tfheenHobbsee: today, hopefully.07:23
Hobbseetfheen: got an upload of amarok, with some fixes from upstream.  cool07:24
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dholbachgood morning07:24
tfheenhello Daniel07:25
dholbachhey Tollef!07:25
dholbachhow's it going?07:25
tfheenslept too little and a bit hungry, but otherwise ok-ish.07:26
tfheenwanting to get herd out now.07:26
dholbachsame here :)07:26
dholbachhow's herd looking?07:26
tfheenI think we have been bitten by all the bugs which are supposed to bite us so far, so I am just hoping we are not going to run into oversizedness or other fun.07:27
Fujitsutfheen: That's a little bit hopefully, isn't it?07:28
tfheenI'm building candidate ISOs now; that is, the i386 ones failed to build due to a fun soyuz bug.07:28
tfheenthe others should be ready already.07:29
FujitsuWhat was with the buildds being rather stuffed last night?07:29
tfheena launchpad upgrade where somebody forgot to restart the services afterwards.07:29
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tfheencandidate ISOs up, please test.07:37
tfheenI'll file the tracker bugs now.07:37
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pittiGood morning!07:51
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dholbachheya pitti07:57
pittihey dholbach 07:57
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Mezpitti / keescook can you please have a look over bug 84657 and let me know where to go from where it is08:14
UbugtuMalone bug 84657 in edgy-backports "Security update for rar/unrar (CVE-2007-0855)" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8465708:14
Mezoh, nvm - I jsut didnt get the email08:14
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dholbachheya seb12809:59
seb128hi dholbach09:59
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tfheenheno: tracking bugs are filed. :-)10:06
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henotfheen: cool, I'll start herding people to them :)10:07
tfheenheno: excellent.10:07
cjwatsonmjg59: not certain. Looking at the code, ioperm() should have been called almost immediately before for a range that includes that port10:08
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henotfheen: I guess you script doesn't close bugs that I've opened by hand (Herd 3), so I'll close those again manually too10:10
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tfheenheno: correct.  I didn't know what to do about those, so I just left them.  Thanks for closing them.10:10
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dholbachhey mvo10:20
mvoheyja dholbach10:29
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seb128tfheen: can we do universe syncs during a freeze or better to wait after the freeze?10:35
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tfheenseb128: just do them; they probably won't hit the archive since the publisher is disabled, though.10:37
seb128tfheen: ok, thank you10:38
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ogratfheen, no new live iso for edubuntu ?10:56
tfheenogra: hmm, I thought I built new ones last night, but apparently not, will fix now10:59
ograthanks :)11:00
tfheenogra: done11:10
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ogragrr ?11:18
tfheenyes, grr.11:18
ograwhy ?11:18
tfheenthe alternate amd64 CD is busticated due to d-i/kernel mismatch.11:18
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tfheenogra: I suspect your alternates are going to be broken; the installer seed hadn't the new kernel ABI in.11:37
ivokspitti: what's with cups? says 'changed by me' but i didn't touch it, i swear :)11:37
ogratfheen, there are no seed differences apart from mdz's last commit in my bzr11:39
pittiivoks: I used your debdiff (slightly modified) to give credit where credit is due ;)11:39
tfheenogra: yes, there are.11:40
pittiivoks: Soyuz just seems to have a hiccup right now, it doesn't see the upload11:40
cjwatsondamn, I'm sorry, I forgot about the seed change11:40
cjwatsontfheen: are you doing that now?11:40
ivokspitti: that was a long long time ago; i don't have time for cups for months now :(11:40
tfheencjwatson: already done.11:40
ogratfheen, hmm, why doesnt bzr missing show them ?11:40
tfheenogra: because I merged them five minutes ago.11:41
tfheencjwatson: I need to wait for the supermirror to update, right?11:42
tfheennew ubuntu alternate images up.11:57
tfheenheno: ^^ ; new tracker bugs filed.11:58
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henotfheen: thanks11:59
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tfheenogra: new -server images for you12:11
ograthanks a lot :)12:12
tfheen.. and tracker bugs filed.12:12
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tfheencjwatson: would it make sense for ubiquity to fade the X screen to black when you click "reboot the system"?12:31
tfheenalso, current ubiquity doesn't seem to reboot for me.12:31
fabbionetfheen: there is a bug for it it seems12:32
UbugtuMalone bug 85177 in ubiquity "Beeping sound starts on D3C5105 after the end of installation process with Feisty herd 3 desktop CD" [Undecided,Needs info]  12:32
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fabbionetfheen: no reboot too12:32
fabbionethe sound might be a broken BIOS12:32
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tfheenfabbione: except I don't hear any beeping.12:33
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tfheenand this used to work just fine.12:33
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tfheenwhat's up?12:36
Hobbseejust got home from work :)12:36
Hobbseegot elected as part of the op council :)12:36
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tfheennice :-)12:36
poningruopen patents?12:37
poningruopen parents?12:37
poningruopen pa... maybe I should leave the rest of my guesses locked up in my mind12:37
Hobbseeponingru: ops.  the ones who can kick12:37
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tepsipakkiHobbsee: that's evil ;)12:38
Hobbseetepsipakki: me?  evil?  surely not!12:38
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tfheenpowermanagement-interface needs to be updated for the new gdm socket location12:39
tfheenoh well, I'll just releasenote that bit12:40
Treenaksah! new gdm socket location12:42
Treenaksthat explains why my gnome-screensaver refused to let me back in12:42
Treenaks(while complaining about gdm)12:42
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FujitsuThat was fixed last night, Treenaks.,12:43
TreenaksFujitsu: well. yes. but not if you hadn't restarted gdm :)12:43
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cjwatsontfheen: ubiquity just pokes gdm/gnome-session to reboot; if there's fading to be done then they should do it12:46
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tfheencjwatson: no, it calls gdm-signal which needs updating; I filed bug #8532012:47
UbugtuMalone bug 85320 in powermanagement-interface "powermanagement-interface: needs updating for new GDM control socket location" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8532012:47
cjwatsonoh, yeah, I'd forgotten that gdm-signal wasn't part of gdm12:47
tfheenit's harmless enough so I'll just releasenote it.12:48
cjwatsontfheen: but what I mean is, fade to black should be done by those tools if they don't already12:48
tfheencjwatson: ah, ok.12:48
tfheenmaybe gdm should be taught, then.12:49
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tfheenRiddell: you have new alternates as well, too12:58
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tfheenogra: how's your testing going?01:02
tfheenRiddell: ^^ likewise01:03
Riddelltfheen: i386 desktop is lovely01:03
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Kanohi, one user gets always kernel panic with asrock k7s41 and 2.6.20 kernel - standard generic config or one without ide, does not matter01:04
Kanoany ideas01:04
tfheenKano: file a bug in launchpad.01:05
Kanowell it is not my system01:05
Hobbseefile a bug for them, or get them to file a bug.01:05
tfheenRiddell: good to hear; would you mind putting that info into the relevant bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-iso-tests/+bugs ?01:05
KanoSiS 741 chipset01:06
Kanodo you have something similar to test with?01:06
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Kanobtw. I let my users test a kernel with that modified config:01:09
Kanothat against git and then only the kanotix flavour compiled01:10
Kanobut the one with problems testet a pure generic kernel too01:12
Kanoskynix on that server01:13
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geserpitti: can you rerun your rdepends script on the mozilla source?01:20
pittigeser: sure01:20
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Riddelltfheen, heno: what are the bug status's that were decided for iso testing?  Test case type: manual partitioning01:21
pittigeser: updated on my people page01:21
RiddellDate of testing: 2007021501:21
Riddellmd5sum confirmed: No01:21
RiddellBugs identified: Bug #8532001:21
UbugtuMalone bug 85320 in powermanagement-interface "powermanagement-interface: needs updating for new GDM control socket location" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8532001:21
Riddelltfheen, heno: was going to say that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ReportingResults doesn't list them01:22
henoRiddell: I'm using In Progress for a sucessful test01:22
tfheenRiddell: so far it's been "rejected" => iso is bad, fix released => iso is released at least.01:22
tfheenwith the addition heno mentioned, I think we have something usable?01:22
henoand that too01:23
RiddellI'll update that wiki page01:23
ogratfheen, my ppc kernel panics :(01:23
henoRiddell: thanks01:23
tfheenogra: ugh.01:23
tfheenogra: good thing ppc is a port architecture now, eh? :-)01:23
ograkernel bug at mm/slab.c:610! is what i see on the screen ...01:24
ograand above is a segfault01:25
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tfheenpitti: can you test a ppc CD?01:25
pittitfheen: yup, already rsyncing01:25
ograthats the server CD 01:25
ograi'll check desktop01:25
tfheenit's the same kernel, so you should see it there too, I suspect.01:26
ograbah, and its lying ... it says it would reboot in 180secs01:26
geserpitti: gnash, swfdec0.3 and videolink have mozilla-dev as an alternative to libxul-dev; enimail-mailnews is to be removed; gtk2hs ftbfs (because of ghc 6.6) and I've filed an uvf exception to get a fixed version in01:27
geserpitti: do you see any packages preventing the removal of mozilla?01:28
pittigeser: right, the script doesn't handle alternative dependencies well01:28
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pittigeser: what about the rdepends on mozilla-browser?01:29
pittigeser: libgtk-mozembed-ruby1.8, wysihtml-el, tilp?01:29
geserI've filed removals on mozilla-locale-*, mozilla-checky and mozilla-cascades01:30
pittigeser: ... and gcjwebplugin-4.101:30
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geserlibgtk-mozembed-ruby1.8 is bug #8515601:30
UbugtuMalone bug 85156 in ruby-gnome2 "[Remove]  Remove libgtk-mozembed-ruby from feisty" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8515601:30
pittigeser: ah, gcjwebplugin has an alternative dependency01:30
geserfor wysihtml-el and tilp I've uploaded a fixed version01:31
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pittiso does wysihtml-el01:31
pittigeser: oh, alternative deps are fine01:31
pittibetter and cleaner to prefer firefox, of course01:31
pittibut no reason to deviate from Debian just for this01:31
pittigeser: hmm, removal of libgtk-mozembed-ruby1.8? it doesn't build against firefox-dev?01:32
geserreplaced with ruby-gnome201:32
pittiyup, sounds sane01:32
pittigeser: feisty is frozen ATM and the publisher disabled, so I think I cannot remove packages right now01:33
pittigeser: but I have my archive day tomorrow, that'll be the slaughter fest :)01:33
cjwatsonpitti: FYI I've updated all the bits of the installer I could find for debian-maintainer-field in bzr01:34
cjwatsonpitti: so no need to upload for those01:34
tfheenpitti: you can remove packages now, but they won't take effect until after the publisher runs.01:34
pitticjwatson: ah, nice; we'll wait for the outcome of the discussion anyway01:34
cjwatsonin the case of the installer it was easy because ubuntu-installer@lists.ubuntu.com is an appropriate contact address01:35
pitticjwatson: did you use Original-Maintainer or XSBC-?01:36
dokopitti, seb128: could you have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PyDbgBuilds to see if that is understandable?01:36
pittidoko: right, I wanted to discuss this with you anyway01:37
cjwatsonpitti: XSBC-01:37
pittidoko: instead of adding dozens of NEW -dbg packages to the archive, can these packages be constructed with pkg-create-dbgsym?01:37
cjwatsonthe installer already uses XB- stuff so I didn't really care01:37
cjwatsoneasy enough to change later if we want01:37
pittidoko: ... and do we want that? (i. e. the python -dbgsym stuff in the external archive)01:37
dokopitti, cjwatson: do we care about of correct maintainer fields, when a binary package is in another section (main/universe)?01:38
dokopitti: 1) no, it needs separate compilation; we maybe could hack around it for distutils based builds, but for other packages not using distutils you have no chance01:39
cjwatsonMOTUs can't effectively maintain a binary in universe if the source is in main01:39
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doko2) I currently add the debug symbols for the normal extensions to the -dbg package as well. How do you handle other -dbg packages? just creating an empty dbgsym package and depending on the -dbg package?01:41
pittidoko: -dbgsym packages have a Conflicts: to all -dbg packages that a source generates01:42
dokopitti: that would be bad ...01:42
pittidoko: but it doesn't sound like p-c-d is the right tool here, so nevermind01:42
dokopitti: ok, se we have to make sure, that a python debug package always includes the debug symbols for the normal extension as well.01:43
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pittidoko: do these steps mean that building with python-dbg will generate both the debug and non-debug extensions? or does this require a multibuild?01:49
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dokopitti: you need separate calls to python and python-dbg for each extension01:50
pittidoko: ah, I looked at python-apt.debdiff01:51
seb128doko: do we really benefit from that? like is there a need to change that many packages for that?01:51
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pittiogra, tfheen: ppc/desktop boots fine here, no oopses01:53
ograstill burning desktop here ... probably my media is broken01:54
dokoseb128: you don't need to change them at all, if you don't need it. isn't debugging for whimps?01:55
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seb128doko: well, to be honest standard python trace are often enough and we get probably almost no bugs for most of packages listed on that page01:56
dokopitti: another idea would be to put the debug extensions in the same package, and allowing p-c-d to strip out these files01:56
ograhmm, desktop seems to work01:56
seb128like python-gmenu01:56
ograi'll finishe the test and redo server01:56
pittidoko: indeed, interesting01:56
dokopitti: but ... debian incompatible ...01:57
pittidoko: if these -dbg builds will go to Debian, too, and we can eventually just sync everything, then the current approach seems fine01:57
jwendellseb128, good morning01:59
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seb128hi jwendell01:59
jwendellseb128, tsclient doesn't have an upstream bug tracker, i tried to mail its author, without success... what to do if i want to write patches?02:01
jwendellany suggestion?02:01
seb128attach them to launchpad02:01
seb128and mail them to upstream02:01
dokoseb128: yes, often enough for crashes; could you already track down the crashes in pygtk? the -dbg package give you an additional aid. unfortunately you cannot just rebuild an extension as a drop in to enable these.02:01
seb128we can patch the package02:01
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seb128doko: well, a -dbg would be useful for pygtk, I'm just wondering if we need to do it for all the small side packages as well02:02
ograargh ... my ltsp is broken ....02:02
ogratfheen, i can fix that through a -meta change ...02:03
dokoseb128: please see the comment just above the table ... and maybe clarify it02:03
seb128doko: same remark than pitti though, if Debian do it as well and we can just sync instead of keeping the diff that would be fine02:03
dokoseb128: sure, I will propose that to Debian02:04
tfheenogra: please02:04
ogratfheen, i'm missing the ubuntu usplash theme on the edubuntu cd for ltsp, ok with you if i upload a seed change ? (will only need a rebiuld of -server)02:04
ograok, thanks02:04
seb128doko: hum, k, I see02:04
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jwendellseb128, will patches for tsclient get in feisty? or it's too late?02:10
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seb128jwendell: depending of the patch, there is still several weeks to fix bugs, no reason to not accept it02:10
jwendellseb128, including wishes? :)02:10
jwendellor just bugs?02:10
dokoseb128: clarified on the wiki02:12
ogratfheen, ppc server still paicing, even with a new media02:12
thepasac, hi, i'm here to talk about the firefox thai patch.02:12
ograpitti, did you test alternate on ppc ? 02:13
seb128jwendell: depending, I can't say without any detail, depend of the change, the complexity of the patch, etc02:13
jwendellseb128, ok. i'll try02:13
pittiogra: no, I didn't02:14
ogracould you ? 02:14
pittiogra: I can give it a try, yes, I just need to backup my laptop before02:17
ograjust if the kernel boots02:17
pittiogra: or do you get the oops already in the installer?02:17
ograits segfailting directly for me02:18
pittiogra: burning02:18
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tfheenogra: haven't you had a chance to test any images yet?02:26
ogratfheen, ppc and i386 desktop are fine here ... i have just tested the first server iso, recognizing the ltsp breakage02:27
tfheenogra: please mark the ok images as such in the bug tracker (in progress)02:28
ograwill do02:28
ogratfheen, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+branch/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.feisty says it has picked up the change02:29
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tfheenogra: new server ISOs building; please reject the old server bugs.02:31
Riddellmvo_: does the dist-upgrade upload you did last night still need approval by a distro manager?02:31
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pittitfheen, ogra: hmm, current ppc/alternate doesn't boot for me02:35
=== pitti md5sum checks
pittiargh, give me my CD back, you bloody ibook...02:35
ograpitti, "Kernel Bug at mm/slab.c:610!"02:35
ograthats what i see after a segfault ...02:36
pittiogra: I don't see anything, it just immediately returns to yaboot02:36
tfheenogra: but -desktop works?02:36
ograoh, intresting02:36
ograyep, -desktop is fine02:36
=== pitti too
tfheenI'll just not release -alternate for ppc then.02:36
pittitfheen: agreed02:36
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pittitfheen: handy timing, this announcement :-P02:36
tfheenpitti: yep, excellent, I'd say.02:37
tfheenthough, we have dropped releasing images in the past if they were broken and we didn't have time to fix them, so it's not the first time..02:37
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=== tfheen wants a small SATA switchbox so he can jump between the test and real system on his machine..
Lathiatyou used to be able to hack that up with IDE02:40
Lathiatdouble pole switch with the jumpers02:40
Lathiaton cable select02:40
dokopitti: did we already agree on the maintainer address for main?02:40
tfheenI'm fairly sure I can get it done with SATA too, I just need to solder a bit.02:41
jdongLathiat: lol yeah I've actrually seen one of those :)02:41
pittidoko: no, it's on the agenda today02:41
Lathiattfheen: wouldnt be so easy 02:41
tfheenLathiat: why not?02:41
Lathiatyou cant just flick the order02:41
Lathiatand if your moving the data lines on the sata cable02:41
Lathiatmind interference on a crap switch02:41
pittitfheen, ogra: argh, silly me; burned the wrong CD *brown paperbag* burning again...02:42
tfheenI'd have one cable per drive and just one to the controller and a physical switch to switch between them.  No need to munge about with ordering.02:43
Lathiatmy point being if your switching the data lines you have to mind how much interference your whacking in the line with a dodgy switch :)02:43
Lathiatmight be easier to simply power/unpower the drives02:43
tfheenI'd power it off before switching.02:43
Lathiattfheen: im talking running interference02:43
Lathiatbecause the link is shit, etc02:43
jdongtfheen: SATA cables are so easy to hook up so why not just turn off and physically switch cables?02:43
tfheentrue, but I guess I can get that decent-ish.02:44
tfheenjdong: because that requires me to crawl under my desk and I'm lazy.02:44
Lathiatbe interested to see if it works02:44
jdongtfheen: haha :) works for me02:44
LathiatIDE version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSvRlJXoT_g02:44
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tfheensomething like http://www.austech.info/showthread.php?t=14576702:48
Lathiateww that looks so ugly02:49
Lathiatbut yeh02:49
mvo_Riddell: I think so, yes. but let me check02:50
cjwatsonpitti,doko: I did my best to merge your sets of debian-maintainer-field agenda items; shout at the start of the meeting if I missed anything02:51
pitticjwatson: thanks, will have a look02:51
cjwatsonKeybuk will send it out shortly, I think02:51
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pittitfheen, ogra: ppc alternate installer boots fine here02:52
tfheenpitti: coolie.02:52
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asacthep: you have an upstream bug you are engaged on?02:57
thepasac, yes, it's bug #796902:58
UbugtuMalone bug 7969 in lilo "lilo segfaults" [High,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/796902:58
pittiRiddell: I just committed some missing apport-qt features, Michael Hofmann kindly added them (Details and complete/reduced radio button)02:58
asacthep: in bugzilla? quite low number :)02:59
Riddellpitti: reduced radio button?02:59
pittiRiddell: radio button for sending a complete or reduced report02:59
thepasac, of course, a very ancient bug02:59
asacthep: whats the state on it?02:59
Riddellpitti: oh, cool02:59
pittiRiddell: where reduced == no core dump, for modem users02:59
thepasac, i'm describing in details in a reply mail03:00
thepasac, it's quite long. i also have some updates to propose for feisty03:00
asacthep: thanks a lot ... we have to finally work it out with upstream... so I need all infos I can get :)03:01
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ogratfheen, ppc works with video=ofonly for me, i never needed that before so i didnt try (even though an oops is still evil)03:33
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tfheenRiddell: how's the rest of kubuntu looking?04:07
tfheenogra: likewise; how's the rest of edubuntu?04:07
gpocentektfheen: did you had feedback from Jani about Xubuntu?04:09
tfheengpocentek: no, none at all.04:09
tfheenI'm making new xubuntu images now, I'll file bugs when they're ready.04:10
gpocentekI really didn't have time to test isos, I'll try to do this today04:10
gpocentektfheen: thanks04:10
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tkamppeterSomeone knows the usual way under Ubuntu to configure X if one has connected a new monitor?04:20
gnomefreaktkamppeter: this is not a support channel. see #ubuntu for support04:20
tkamppetersorry, forgot to change to the right chnanel04:21
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Keybukrandom: can we drop bazaar from feisty?04:32
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TreenaksKeybuk: yeah, who needs it...04:32
Treenaks(or is bazaar the old pre-bzr thing?)04:32
Keybukit's confusing to people04:32
Keybukdemonstrating my point04:32
Keybukbazaar is the Arch thing04:32
Keybukand is not bzr04:32
Treenaks# apt-get install bazaar04:32
Keybukso when you say to someone "install bazaar, and get http://bazaar.launchpad.net/..."04:32
Treenaksapt: itym bzr. kthxbye04:32
Treenaks# 04:32
Keybukthe package they absolutely *do not* want to install, is "bazaar"04:33
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Tonio_pitti: you removed digikam from kubuntu desktop-i386 seed ? any problem with it ?04:35
elmoKeybuk: dropping it entirely is a bit harsh - renaming it would probably be appropriate though04:36
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pittiTonio_: Riddell did, to save spave04:43
pittiTonio_: space, too04:43
Tonio_pitti: argh...04:44
Tonio_pitti: okay :'(04:44
Tonio_space on the cd becomes a real issue for further developpment...04:45
Tonio_pitti: well thanks for the response ;)04:46
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tfheenRiddell: gentle nag; how's the testing going?05:27
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henoRiddell: I can help you with an amd64 or i386 image. Where is my help most useful?05:33
henoie which image is last on your own list?05:33
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ogratfheen, edubuntu apart from amd64 desktop (and the video=ofonly thing with ppc) which i still have to test is all good05:40
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henoogra: could you mark the good ones as In Progress here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-iso-tests/+bugs05:43
ograheno, can you open a set for server 20070215.1 ?05:44
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ograand desktop 2007021505:44
mvoheno: do you think we could add upgrade testing to the new schema as well?05:44
ograor am i free to do it ? (i see all bugs are opened by Ubuntu ISO testing)05:45
henomvo: Yes He we usually tracked those for alphas?05:45
henoogra: I think you can add bugs easily05:45
mvoheno: good questions :) IIRC we had some basic testing 05:46
mvoheno: not sure how much the community can help, its a lot of work without some sort of vm or snapshot functionality05:46
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dokopitti: libwps diff is now reduced06:02
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keescooktfheen: (or other archive admins) please shove my security update for imagemagick through for breezy, dapper, edgy.  :)06:06
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pittidoko: nice, thanks06:10
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troy_ssecurity update for imagemagick?06:17
keescooktroy_s: yup.06:18
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troy_skeescook: What hole does it expose?06:18
keescooktroy_s: it's a fix for CVE-2007-0770 (PALM files)06:18
Mezkeescook, wanna work on the rar thing now, get it out the way ?06:18
keescookMez: yup, I was just about to switch gears and start looking at that.  :)06:19
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Mezsweet, well I'm here :D06:19
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keescookMez: do you have a tested debdiff for unrar?06:19
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Mezkeescook, just making one for debian06:19
keescookokay, I'll work on it.  :)06:20
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Mezkeescook, are you ok to accept a debdiff including the debian version (New maintainer + dh_compat upgrade?)06:24
keescookMez: I'd rather not for stable release updates.  Mostly I'm just curious if a given debdiff has been tested on each of the stable releases.  :)06:25
Mezah kk06:25
Mezjust debian has -1 ubuntu has -0.106:25
keescookWell, once it's in Debian, I'll just request a sync for feisty.  that shouldn't be a problem.06:26
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Mezkeescook, ubuntu already has the updated rar in feisty (I did a manual upload as debians version needs tweaking ubuntu's doesnt!)06:27
Mezkeescook, we're doing security releases for debian :D06:28
tfheenkeescook: the publisher is running now, so it should go as normal06:28
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keescooktfheen: great, thanks.06:28
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henohm, I'm not getting rsync or http downlods from cdimage ATM06:30
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iwjdsc0t-mawktest       PASS06:34
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pittiiwj: autopkgtest FTW? :)06:38
iwjpitti: Well, FTdraw for the moment I think.06:40
iwjroot@samual8:~/adt-play# lvchange -a n /dev/glalonde/adt_feisty_base06:40
iwjSegmentation fault (core dumped)06:40
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iwjI think this may in fact be my fault.06:42
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LNX1hi ! A simple question for you ;o)06:44
Treenaksthis is not a support channel :)06:44
LNX1What is the new compilation flag that make feisty so fast? (I think in glibc 2.5)06:45
LNX1i known ;)06:45
LNX1I dont need support06:45
LNX1thanks !06:45
pittiLNX1: we put doko in a room with just water and a computer and didn't let him out before he optimized gcc by factor 206:46
LNX1lol ;O)06:46
LNX1...but for sure, feisty is more responsivness on my laptop then edgy06:47
LNX1sorry for my bad english ;)06:47
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LNX1thanks , I will discuss about that in the ubuntu channel ! thanks again guys06:49
jwendellhi, pitti06:50
pittihi jwendell 06:50
jwendellpitti, all packages must have a X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain in their .desktop file?06:50
pittijwendell: all .desktop files that have translatable strings, yes06:51
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jwendellpitti, so, we have to create a patch for it, right?06:51
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pittijwendell: depends; if a source package uses cdbs, then you only need to include the standard gnome.mk06:52
jwendellpitti, ah... ok06:52
pittitfheen: ok to upgrade tzdata from 2007a to 2007b for bug 83446?06:56
UbugtuMalone bug 83446 in tzdata "Daylight Saving changes in the United States, Canada, and Bermuda" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8344606:56
pittitfheen: (I'll prepare a SRU as well, but we need the package in feisty first)06:56
ograare we ufrozen already ?06:56
pittino, not yet, just getting UFV exception06:56
tfheenpitti: yeah, looks sensible enough to me.  You've tested the changes?06:57
pittitfheen: I'll test them and scrutinize the diff06:57
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tfheenpitti: cheers.06:57
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tfheenogra: so you're good, sans amd64 desktop?06:59
gpocentektfheen: is there a problem with the xubuntu desktop isos?06:59
ogratfheen, all good now07:00
ograapart from that video=ofonly uglyness07:00
tfheenogra: that's for an unsupported platform.07:00
ograbut still worth to be fixed :)07:00
tfheennot for herd 4, no.07:01
ogra(i'm in the community group supporting that platform :) )07:01
ograindeed ... but for release07:01
tfheenogra: sure, but ports have never hold up milestones, betas, previews or release.07:01
tfheengpocentek: no, I think it's fine.07:02
tfheengpocentek: ah, no, there's something wrong with the -desktop ones, yes.07:02
tfheenI'll investigate.07:02
gpocentekthanks :)07:02
gpocentekamd alternate is OK, i'm rsyncing i38607:03
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spikeI'm currently looking at opening a bug against lvm2 package in edgy and would appreciate some directions on what to add to it07:11
pittitfheen: oh, false alarm, we don't need a new feisty package; these changes are already in07:11
pittitfheen: 2007b just fixes a single leap second (trivial diff); we can still update it, though07:12
spikethe problem is with the symlinking/automagic. after installation any command will produce something like: No program "lvmdiskscan" found for your current version of LVM07:12
spikeinvoking /lib/lvm-200/$command will work just fine07:12
spikenot sure where the problem is since /lib/lvm-default/ is correctly a symlink to /lib/lvm-200/07:13
cjwatsonkylem: you volunteered to help out with X last week - do you think you could follow up to the thread on ubuntu-devel@?07:13
spikealtho it could be a problem with my Xen kernel..07:14
kylemcjwatson, yup.07:14
cjwatsonmvo_: you muttered something too, if you have time07:14
kylemcjwatson, i thought i had, haven't gotten that far into my mail yet.07:14
cjwatsonwe should try to get that moving ASAP after herd-4, at least the initial round of syncs to make testing easier07:14
cjwatsonkylem: let's coordinate on #ubuntu-x tomorrow07:15
mvo_cjwatson: yep07:16
kylemcjwatson, ok.07:16
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pitticjwatson: could you please sign-off bug 85394? I don't like approving my own SRU07:20
UbugtuMalone bug 85394 in tzdata "New timezone data 2007b" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8539407:20
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victory747I have a question about the daily feisty install cd.  I just downloaded the alt i386 install cd.  It seems there is no way to manually partition with LVM.07:21
victory747I had to start it from the console with vgchange07:21
victory747Is this a known issue, by design, or an oversight?07:21
_ionIt works with the Herd 3 server install CD at least.07:22
victory747there was a guided whole disk lvm option07:22
victory747but in manual option all there is is "guided partitioning" and "help on partitioning"07:23
cjwatsonvictory747: you need to create individual partitions and select LVM physical volume under "Use as:" 07:23
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cjwatsonvictory747: then once you've got some of those you'll see an LVM configuration option appear on the main partitioner menu07:23
victory747but i already have existing partitions07:23
cjwatsonyou may have to tweak their use-as07:23
cjwatsonit might not have detected that properly07:24
victory747the volume group is not even active when starting out07:24
victory747so you mean select the pv choose LVM?07:24
cjwatsonyeah, Use as: physical volume for LVM07:25
victory747that won't hose my existing volume group?07:25
cjwatsonthen at the main partitioner menu, "Configure the Logical Volume Manager"07:25
victory747ok, so this is by design07:26
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victory747but it doesnt' seem very intuitive07:26
victory747it seems to me that if a pv already exists, it would be best to activate the vg so it shows up right away07:26
cjwatsonshouldn't affect the existing volume group, no07:26
victory747let me back up and try that, then07:27
cjwatsonthe problem with activating it is that it then becomes difficult to stop using LVM07:27
cjwatsonyou're right that it's not ideal, though07:27
victory747dealing with lvm in the installer has always been a pain when the lvm already exists07:27
cjwatsonit would really be better to show what it would be if activated, rather than actually activating it07:27
cjwatsonthat sort of design would also get rid of some intermediate commit requirements07:28
cjwatsonbut it's a good deal of work07:28
victory747the thing is, it shows what my filesystems are for all my partitions except the lvm when i start the partitioner07:29
victory747seems to me it should show that as well.07:29
cjwatsonright, hence "show what it would be if activated"07:29
victory747yeah, i guess.  i guess i don't see why it can't be activated from the start07:29
victory747since they are essentially "partitions" like any other partition07:29
cjwatsonmy memory is that that made it much more difficult to delete PVs and replace them with something else07:30
victory747you use and manage them like any other partition from a practical point of view07:30
cjwatsonpossibly because the plumbing needed to tear down VGs wasn't there07:30
cjwatsonand that's just as difficult a usability problem07:30
victory747so i guess you guys have thought about this07:30
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cjwatsonI agree with you that the current situation is not optimal; I'm not defending it so much as explaining it07:30
victory747hmm, maybe the partitioner needs an overhaul07:30
victory747but since i'm not really willing to do the work . . .07:31
cjwatsonnot really an overhaul, but LVM and RAID need to be improved and made to fit more into the general structure of the partitioner07:31
cjwatsonrather, the partitioner modules for handling same07:31
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cjwatsonunfortunately I have no time for this07:31
victory747yeah, that would be nice.  i have never liked the way it deals with lvm - very cumbersome07:31
victory747i almost find it easier to do from the command line07:31
victory747well, i think i understand how you are doing it now07:32
cjwatsona way to inspect a VG without activating it would help. Do you know if such a thing exists?07:32
victory747hmm.  07:32
victory747well, you can use lvscan without activating a group, can't you?07:32
victory747let me check . . .07:32
victory747yes, they show up as inactive07:33
cjwatsonmm, I think so, although its output is not exactly desirable07:33
cjwatsonmaybe something can be done with the underlying library code07:33
cjwatsonso the way that partman works for ordinary partitions on hard disks is that, rather than making changes immediately (with the exception of resizing), they're queued up in a model of the disk constructed in /var/lib/partman/device/07:34
cjwatsonand then committed in one shot at the end07:34
victory747is it too late to make changes for feisty?  maybe it doesn't really matter, but i've been doing this ubuntu/lvm thing for a while and I was quite confused07:34
cjwatsonbut for LVM and RAID, we don't have code to represent them this way yet, nor a way to inspect the LVM/RAID nonintrusively07:34
victory747oh yeah, but it had to "write" changes in the past before activating the volume groups07:35
cjwatson(a) it's too late for major feature enhancements, (b) we don't have resources :-(07:35
victory747i understand.  plus holding all that virtually would be quite a bit of work07:35
cjwatsonmost of the LVM and RAID work is done in Debian07:35
victory747so this change was a debian change?07:35
cjwatsonSimon Huggins has been refactoring RAID, I think, but more with an eye to autopartitioning07:35
victory747i always do manual partitioning since my stuff is already there and my setup usually rather strange07:36
cjwatsonall the relevant work on LVM in this cycle was done in Debian, yes07:36
victory747only do auto stuff when helping others install, but it's usually pretty simple07:36
cjwatsonI hadn't been aware that this particular thing had changed - I thought you always had to activate VGs manually07:37
victory747um, maybe you could add a note to the help part about how to activate lvm if it already exists07:37
victory747oh, well, in the past i didn't know how to do it manually07:37
victory747so i would go to "manage lvm"07:37
victory747and then it would activate it07:37
cjwatsonah, the menu structure was changed a bit and it's possible that hiding that option when there are no PVs with the right method set was a recent change07:38
victory747ok, that makes sense07:38
cjwatsoncould you file a bug on partman-lvm (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-lvm/+filebug)? I might be able to do something very constrained about that07:38
cjwatsonwould need to compare how it worked in edgy07:39
cjwatsonpitti: ok, I'll have a look at that tomorrow07:39
victory747i dist-upgraded to edgy so don't know that installer, but it's not that the 6.06 installer was that much more intuitive anyway07:39
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victory747i would almost prefer a note in the help files so someone could find it there07:40
victory747that way it would not clutter the interface but someone looking for it could find it07:40
gnomefreakdidnt someone mention the installer would fail with no kernel found?07:40
victory747Oh, I also had to modprobe dm-mod07:40
victory747I forgot about that, too.07:40
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victory747I'll make a note of my experience in launchpad url you gave me07:41
cjwatsonI hate to sound negative, but the help files are actually a real pain for us to change :) they're translated and the resulting change tends to be extremely difficult to merge07:41
victory747oh! :(07:41
cjwatsonso I'd much prefer something simpler if possible07:41
victory747ok, well, 07:41
victory747i'm not sure what to say07:42
cjwatsongnomefreak: transient07:42
victory747except if I didn't know about modprobe dm-mod and vgchange -a y 07:42
cjwatsonhaving to modprobe dm-mod is certainly a bug, although I don't think that would have been necessary if you'd used the method I suggested from the start07:42
victory747then I would not have been able to proceed07:42
cjwatsonwas probably only because you were doing it by hand07:42
victory747i was in the partitioner already07:42
victory747maybe all i had to do was tag the partition as lvm07:43
victory747then it would have all worked07:43
victory747i can re-boot the installer and try again if you would like07:43
victory747i just don't want to take a chance of hosing my pv/vg07:43
cjwatsonmark them as lvm and then select the configure-lvm menu item will modprobe dm-mod as part of its operation07:43
cjwatsondo_initial_setup() {07:43
cjwatson        # load required kernel modules07:43
cjwatson        depmod -a >/dev/null 2>&107:43
cjwatson        modprobe dm-mod >/dev/null 2>&107:43
cjwatson        modprobe lvm-mod >/dev/null 2>&107:43
victory747I see.07:44
victory747ok, well, my problem was that it was not at all intuitive to me, which may or may not mean anything07:44
cjwatsonwhat was the "use as" for the relevant partitions to start with?07:44
victory747but i wonder about others who may be int eh same position I am07:44
victory747I can't remember.  I think it was blank - nothing07:44
cjwatsonthe current use should really be autodetected if at all possible07:45
cjwatsonfixing that would help07:45
victory747you going to be around for a while?  next 15 minutes or so?07:45
cjwatsonand it is supposed to be autodetected07:45
cjwatsonnah, about to go to the pub for dinner07:45
cjwatsonI'll be back later on this evening for the distro team meeting07:45
victory747i will re-start the installer and tell you what it's saying07:45
cjwatsonfeel free to dump it into that bug07:46
victory747should i try to file something, or just let it go for now?07:46
cjwatsondefinitely file something or I'll forget07:46
victory747thanks for your time07:46
cjwatsonvictory747: #ubuntu-installer is a bit quieter if you want to mention stuff there, and I'll pick it up later07:47
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jwendellfabbione, are you a vnc maintainer?08:18
mvo__tepsipakki: would it be possible to add a Packages file to your xorg repository? this way, I would do some testing on the package relationships (e.g. if it upgrades cleanly)08:21
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_iontepsipakki: Falcon (made by Seveas) is a *very* nice tool for maintaining an apt-getable repository.08:22
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tepsipakkimvo: sure08:31
tepsipakki_ion: yes, I use that frequently08:31
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ograkwwii, ping08:33
kwwiiogra: pong08:33
ograkwwii, you promised me a cropped logo :)08:34
kwwiiman, I should complain about a contentless ping, but I am an artist and will let you go on that one :p08:34
ograi'm just working o the ldm greeter ...08:34
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kwwiiogra: yeah, let me do that real quick08:34
tepsipakkimvo__: I'll do that later this evening08:34
kwwiiogra: I'll send you one, just a minute08:34
ograthanks a lot :)08:34
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kwwiiogra: that pic probably won't work on the standard ubuntu bg though08:35
kwwiinever tried08:35
ogracairo is a beast ... and i hoped it would be easier than gnomecanvas08:35
kwwiiand now that I look at it, I wonder if sabdfl would like it ;-)08:35
ograit wont be on a standard ubuntu brown ...08:35
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ograrather something in red or orange direction ... even yellow might work .. 08:36
ograbut surely not brown :)08:36
_ionkwwii: I take it you're the guy behind the new usplash artwork? It's really nice, thanks for your work.08:37
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kwwii_ion: glad to hear you like it, thanks :-)08:38
kwwii_ion: I am getting paid to make it ;-)08:38
=== ogra got lots of good feedback for edubuntu as well ...
mvo__tepsipakki: thanks08:38
ogra(for usplash)08:38
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kwwiiogra: good to know, I was kinda worried that it would not be playfull enough 08:39
ograi'm happy its a bit more friendly to my eyes :)08:39
ograits a bit out of place though, i need to fix the values in the code08:40
Burgworkkwwii: got a linky to the image?08:42
kwwiiBurgwork: which one?08:42
Burgworkkwwii: edubuntu upslash08:42
ogrameh, crap ... evo is broken ... 08:44
=== ogra dist upgrades to see if that fixes it
kwwiiogra: http://sinecera.de/edubuntu.png08:44
kwwiisorry that I forgot08:45
ograthanks ... 08:45
kwwiiI'll help in any way I can with the ldm, btw08:45
ograno problem, i didnt need it yet08:45
ograi'll try o make it look as much like gdm as i can ...08:45
kwwiiI've made an svg for gdm, btw, so if you want to take that and simply change the colors, let me know08:47
kwwiiin fact, I have the edubuntu logo as svg too08:47
kwwiibut you do not want to use that as it has a gaussian blur and that would take forever to render live08:48
ograactually it doesnt look to bad on the brown gdm background08:50
kwwiiI'll test it, one second08:50
ograthe smooth blur makes it fit in very soft ... so the brown isnt to much in your face08:51
ogra(still no option, but intresting to know that it doesnt look to evil)08:51
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kwwiiogra: not horrible but it could look better08:53
ograi just had expected it to be worse 08:54
kwwiiI'll whip out my magic ubuntu palette tool and see what I can come up with08:55
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ograyou knw the colorpalette we use in metacity and gtk ? 08:55
kwwiiogra: nope08:56
kwwiibut I can guess that it is a subset of the ubuntu colors, or?08:57
kwwiired ir iirc08:57
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ograhere is one with metacity border and highlighted selection http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=754&slide=1308:58
ograit uses ubuntulooks 08:59
ograand only has a different colorset08:59
kwwiicool, it is pretty much the same palette that we have in ubuntu, only we use them differently09:02
cprovhi guys, does someone know how can I make a deb file using data.tar.bz2 instead of data.tar.gz ?09:05
elmocprov: look at diveintopython package09:06
thomcprov: look at debian/rules for diveintopython09:06
thom(dh_builddeb -- -Zbzip2)09:07
thomelmo: heh :-)09:07
elmo(and pre-depends on right version of dpkg)09:07
cprovelmo: thom: good thanks09:07
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Riddelltfheen: sorry for being offline, my router decided to disconnect while testing09:15
Riddelltfheen: but amd64 and i386 kubuntu cds are good09:15
kwwiiogra: here is a quick idea...just changed the outer gradient color of the gdm bg: http://sinecera.de/ldm_bg_idea.png09:19
ograkwwii, yeah, thats similar to what i had in mind ... perfect !09:20
ogra(fruity, you wanna bite it :) )09:20
kwwiicool, I am making gdm this week, so I'll keep you in mind09:20
kwwiiyeah, very tangerine09:20
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tfheenRiddell: great, thanks.10:02
ograseb128, didnt you say we'd get the menu back for gnomecc ? i didnt have it on herd410:04
seb128ogra: I said to unmask them with alacarte menu editor for herd4 and we will get them back before feisty10:04
seb128don't be lazy10:04
seb128that's a few clicks only ;)10:04
ograheh, indeed ... i didnt understand i ha to use alacarte ... i have no prob with that 10:05
tepsipakkimvo: deb http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/xorg72 feisty xorg-test10:19
ogratepsipakki, complete ? 10:19
tepsipakkino drivers10:19
mvotepsipakki: oh, very nice, thanks!10:19
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tepsipakkiI just upgraded my box and noticed that some were updated.. should've made it a repo right from the start ;)10:21
tepsipakkiand I have a newer xorg-server with a few more dropped patches, same for mesa10:22
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tepsipakkibut they are on my laptop10:22
tepsipakkimaybe I'll dig them up10:23
st3well, i'll cross-paste here too as i recevied no reply on -kernel10:25
st3st3 we reported a critical bug about bcm43xx here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/8540410:25
st3st3 we are receiving a lot of bug reports from ubuntu users, please fix it asap10:25
st3st3 thank you10:25
UbugtuMalone bug 85404 in linux-source-2.6.20 "bcm43xx completely broken in feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  10:25
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gesertepsipakki: is there at that url also the complete source availble? I'm trying to build it on my amd6410:38
tfheenogra: your serveraddon CD is fine too?  Not just your server CD?10:41
ogranot much that can break atm10:41
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tepsipakkigeser: yes10:43
tepsipakkigeser: you might want to hold a bit, there's a new version of x11proto-input which isn't there yet10:44
gesertepsipakki: is xtrans-dev built from the package from Debian experimental? because I can't see the source there10:44
tepsipakkioh, that too10:44
tepsipakkiI removed my version when it was uploaded to experimental10:45
tepsipakkierr, when the debian version was uploaded..10:45
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Amaranthtepsipakki: so does it look like they'll be ready in time to have a chance of getting into feisty?11:00
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tepsipakkiAmaranth: what I've been told, yes11:01
tepsipakkibut that needs help when they hit the archive, to make sure any possible regressions are dealt with11:02
_ionGreat work, tepsipakki.11:02
tepsipakkibut debian guys are doing testing as well, and so far there are no showstoppers11:02
tepsipakki_ion: thanks11:02
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ograBenC, i have a kernel oops on ppc with the recent herd release, i have to use video=ofonly to get it to boot ... which i didnt have to before11:04
pittiseb128, mvo: post-install u-n for hwdb-client makes me happy11:04
mvopitti: you tried it already?11:05
BenCogra: can you send a photo of the oops?11:05
pittimvo: no, I mean the concept11:05
mvopitti: we need to talk a bit about getting good i18n for it11:05
mvopitti: great!11:05
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pittimvo: we don't even need to touch u-n for that any more, right?11:05
BenCogra: BTW, I assume madwifi is working for you...is bcm43xx working any better?11:05
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mvopitti: this is a weakness currently11:05
pittimvo: ah, right, no langpack support11:05
seb128pitti: good, I think that's a good way as well11:05
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ograBenC, yes, but not tonight anymore ... (i'm up and running since 13h)11:05
mvopitti: yep. also we could do something similar as for the desktop files maybe? you know more about that then I :)11:05
mvopitti: but yes, no need to touch u-n, just use what we have there11:06
mvo+ maybe langpack integration if possible without too much work (should be doable)11:06
pittimvo: let's talk tomorrow11:06
mvopitti: yes, I'm a bit tired11:06
mvopitti: but great that you came up with the idea!11:06
pochuBenC: I'm not sure if you are the right person to tell it, or if it's a kernel bug, but ipw2200 (wireless) is not working anymore in feisty (bug 83637)11:07
UbugtuMalone bug 83637 in network-manager "Network-manager doesn't show any wireless network on ipw2200" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8363711:07
Fujitsu_pochu: When did that happen? I was using it this morning.11:07
BenCpochu: Doesn't work, or doesn't work with NetworkManager?11:08
BenCthose are two different things :)11:08
pochuFujitsu_: doesn't work11:08
pochuwith a clean install of herd 2, and yesterday daily-live11:08
BenCpochu: Can you configure it from the command line?11:08
pochuand some others daily11:08
pochuBenC: I'm not very skilled with networking... :(11:08
pochuBenC: interfaces?11:08
BenCpochu: "ifconfig -a" do you see it in that list?11:09
BenCif so, then the kernel's most likely not at fault11:09
pochuBenC: is it eth1? If so, I see it11:10
BenCpochu: iwconfig eth111:10
BenCif that looks sane (e.g doesn't say it isn't a wireless dev) then the kernels fine11:10
BenCwhich means it's a network-manager bug11:10
pochuBenC: when I boot, I sometimes see this message: intel_rng: blabla something can't remember11:11
BenCpochu: Sure, intel_rng, doesn't exist...no big deal11:11
henowho is looking after network-manager bugs?11:11
pochuemilio@kiko:~$ iwconfig eth1 | grep Management11:12
pochu          Power Management:off11:12
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pochuBenC: ^^ does that means my ipw is off?11:12
BenCheno: I suspect it will end up in kernel-team's lap11:12
BenCpochu: No, it means power-management is off11:12
BenCheno: At least the backend driver portions (UI is up to someone else)11:13
pochuBenC: radio off  ESSID:""11:13
ograpochu, that means your kernelis fine .... you got a n-m bug11:14
BenCpochu: radio is always off until it is configured I think11:14
BenCpochu: if you have a radio kill switch, then that's easy to debug...flip the switch11:14
pochuBenC: I don't know what radio means in a wireless card :S11:14
pochujust I saw it's off...11:14
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pochuogra: but I don't have wireless, wether with NM or not11:15
BenCpochu: You can work around this using the standard networking control panel to configure the device11:15
ograpochu, right but its not th ekernels fault 11:15
ograits a configuration issue11:15
tepsipakkigeser: now the repo should be fine11:16
tepsipakkigeser: added new source versions of xorg-server and mesa as well11:16
pochuBenC: I tried it, without success. However I'm gonna try again11:16
BenCpochu: Try again, and check iwconfig to see what's going on11:17
pochubut then if everything is fine, wifi-radar should work, right?11:17
pochuBenC: and another thing (there are no more hehe): when booting, I see a lot of messages similar to this: [some numbers]  PCI: Cannot allocate resource region...11:19
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BenCpochu: Just an annoying message...no real problems with that message11:20
pochuBenC: ok, thank you. Going to test the wireless :)11:20
pochuwifi-radar does not show any wireless. Don't know if it should or if it's also "broken"11:21
BenCpochu: My only concern is if things like iwconfig/ifconfig can configure it...if that works, then it's some else's problem :)11:22
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pochuBenC: I'm trying to configure it with network-admin. should it work? and should dhcp work?11:23
BenChard to say...it should work11:24
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st3BenC> ogra: BTW, I assume madwifi is working for you...is bcm43xx working any better?11:26
st3please check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/85404/+viewstatus11:26
UbugtuMalone bug 85404 in linux-source-2.6.20 "bcm43xx completely broken in feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  11:26
ograst3, what makes you think madwifi is working for me ? i dont have any madwifi using HW11:27
st3no, i was citing BenC11:27
ograoh, ah11:28
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ograwell, since i dont have the firmware on fresh installs i couldnt test yet, my work system is behind and running 2.6.20-5-generic still11:28
ograbut i'm currently upgrading ...11:29
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BenCst3: It was my understanding that bcm43xx dscape was supposed to work better than bcm43xx+softmac11:30
st3not yet11:31
BenCmjg59: ping11:31
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imbrandonBenC, ping ( please approve my request to join the PPC Community Dev Team )11:31
st3it's still highly experimental, but it could even be ok, if you used the latest version11:31
BenCst3: Are you the upstream maintainer of bcm43xx+softmac?11:31
st3yes, i'm stefano brivio11:31
st3(one of the maintainers)11:31
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=== pitti hugs st3 and thanks him for making his Airport Extreme work :)
BenCst3: Then maybe you can help the folks who have been getting oopses from stock bcm43xx in 2.6.20 :)11:32
imbrandonBenC, that is if you have a moment , heh , btw i dident get a change to whoop you in bowling at the sprint , wait till ubuntu live / uds feisty ;)11:32
st3BenC, i didn't see any report on the relevant mailing list, however, tell me11:32
BenCimbrandon: hehe, bring it11:32
BenCst3: let's continue this in #ubuntu-kernel11:32
st3i'm there11:33
imbrandonBenC, anyhow when you get a moment poke me through on LP please, i'm going afk ( i already hit the join button ) 11:33
imbrandonl8tr all11:33
BenCimbrandon: sure thing11:33
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