/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/02/16/#ubuntu-artwork.txt

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nysosymhi there :)08:01
BHSPitMonkeyyo08:19
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nysosymre11:34
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nysosymhi kwwii :)12:04
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nysosymand hi darkmatter :)12:07
nysosymund PingunZ ^^12:07
PingunZhey12:07
nysosymi can't find the icon for the upper left corner, to change these in /usr/share/icons12:08
nysosymhttp://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bildschirmfototo3.png12:08
darkmatterhi nysosym12:08
nysosymany ideas?12:08
darkmatterI'm busy hacking atm ;)12:09
darkmatternew slab... gnome-main-menu version 212:09
nysosymno problem darkmatter ;)12:09
nysosymwow, what du u change?12:09
nysosym*do12:09
nysosymcan i be a beta tester? ^^12:09
darkmatternysosym, not changing anything really... just making the new version from novell ubuntu friendly12:10
darkmatternysosym, http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotze0.png <--- thats fresh from svn... first compile to see what needs fixing12:11
nysosymdarkmatter: ahh ok nice and thx :)12:11
darkmatternow time to crack open gedit12:11
nysosymahh ok, i know it's a matter of taste, but for me these menu is tooo big ^^12:12
darkmatternysosym, "big" is a tradeoff of actual usable design... the slabs not perfect... but you certainly wont get anything more usable in a container any smaller ;)12:14
nysosymok :D12:16
nysosymhttp://soapbox.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=f9061379-003b-4fc4-b542-0c18bc0e84e212:16
nysosymwow....12:16
kwwiiw00t!12:53
kwwiiI got svgs working in GDM to round the boxes12:53
kwwiinifty doodle12:54
PingunZkwwii, show mee01:01
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kwwiiPingunZ: gotta figure out how to take a screenshot first :p01:43
kwwiiPingunZ: still working on it, but I could post the files I changed and added if you want to test it01:43
kwwiiI need to make sure that it works at all resolutions01:43
elkbuntukwwii, for screenshot, vmware?01:48
nysosymkwwii: jippi feisty work fine here, now :D01:50
nysosymBut, Network-Manager need new "human-like" icons01:51
darkmatterewww... "human-like"???01:52
kwwiielkbuntu: for some reason I cannot install ubuntu in vmware01:52
kwwiinysosym: yeah01:52
elkbuntuthis.. is not a good thing :-/01:52
nysosymdarkmatter: why not?01:52
elkbuntumind you, vmware hates me too01:52
kwwiiwell, my cdrom is in a docking station and for some reason after it boots it does not find the drive01:52
darkmatterstick to the tango guidlelines... its the standard now01:53
kwwiielkbuntu: I am sure there is a way around it01:53
kwwiibut I am too lazy to figure it out01:53
darkmatterand jimmac did up a sweet set of tango nm applet goodies01:53
nysosymdarkmatter: but tango isn't the standard for ubuntu ;)01:53
elkbuntukwwii, a recompile probably01:53
elkbuntuwhich of course isnt likely ;)01:54
kwwii;-)01:54
darkmatternysosym, its the standard for gnome and everything else ubuntu is using... which is why ubuntu currently looks like crap... they should either use tangerine or redesign human to follow the guidlines01:55
kwwiiboah, ever looked at the xml that inkscape writes?01:55
kwwiitotal shit01:55
kwwiithe app says width=2px01:55
kwwiiand the svg says width="1.95843736"01:55
nysosym*check*01:56
kwwiisory for my potty mouth01:56
nysosymkwwii: no problem :D01:57
elkbuntukwwii, forgiven. you do restrain yourself reasonably well ;)01:57
nysosymthats the true :D01:57
kwwiibad, bad inkscape01:58
nysosymkwwii: thats the reason why, some icons looks a little bit blurry01:58
kwwiiI mean, how hard can that be?01:58
kwwiieven AI doesn't do that01:58
kwwiiis the wiki dead?02:00
nysosymother question, where i can find the icon in the upper left corner to change?02:00
nysosymhttp://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bildschirmfotoxb7.png02:00
elkbuntukwwii, is a weekend approaching?02:00
elkbuntuwiki downtime used to be a v.regular weekend occurrance02:00
kwwiilol02:01
kwwiinysosym: that is a tango icon02:01
elkbuntuanything from thursday to monday was fair game02:01
nysosymkwwii: sure, but this is there when i have activated the human symbols...02:02
kwwiinysosym: human defaults back to tangerine and then tango02:02
kwwiiit might also be simply copied into Human02:02
nysosymthx, i will have a look on it kwwii :)02:03
elkbuntu<Spo8> hmm... it would seem the entire help.ubuntu.com is down.02:03
elkbuntuseems it's not just the wiki02:04
andreasnnysosym: the name is system-software-update in apps02:05
elkbuntuhelp. seems revived, wiki still sleeps02:06
kwwiiwow, even launchpad is dead02:07
kwwiiwho tripped over the cord?02:07
elkbuntu* mvo_ wonders if something is wrong with bazaar.lp.net02:11
elkbuntu<Hobbsee> mvo_: see #launchpad02:12
elkbuntu<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: DB vacuuming, another 5 or 10 minutes.02:12
elkbuntufrom -devel, so02:12
nysosymthx andreasn :)02:13
nysosymall works fine now :)02:13
kwwiiyeah, you just gotta know the right person :-)02:14
nysosymyes, in every situations of life :D02:15
PingunZkwwii, I was out .. you can make screenies with gdmthemetester02:21
PingunZlemme get you the right command02:21
PingunZkwwii, gdmthemetester xdmcp YourGDM02:21
PingunZand feel free to send me the files ;)02:22
kwwiiPingunZ: no xnest installed here02:23
kwwiiI'll send you files, but know that it is not done yet02:23
kwwiiso no commenting on the artwork :-)02:23
PingunZok02:24
PingunZI'll do a screenie ;)02:24
kwwiiPingunZ: http://sinecera.de/human-feisty-rounded.tar.gz02:26
kwwiithe logo looks like crap02:26
kwwiibut the boxes are rounded ;-)02:26
kwwiiwe need to test it to see that it works at different resolutions02:27
nysosymcya02:27
nysosymgo to work now02:27
nysosymhave a nice day02:27
PingunZkwwii, uploading screenie02:29
PingunZkwwii, http://pingunz.googlepages.com/humangdm.jpg02:30
PingunZ^^02:30
kwwiiPingunZ: cool, thanks02:32
kwwiiit works :-)02:32
kwwiibut the logo looks crappy02:32
kwwiihow do you like the entry box?02:32
PingunZwell .. jpeg compression02:32
PingunZlooks great02:33
PingunZhere02:33
kwwiiprobably need to tweak the colors a bit02:33
kwwiibut I tried to make it look the same as on the desktop02:33
PingunZkwwii, uploading in .png for better quality02:36
kwwiiPingunZ: great, thnx02:37
PingunZhttp://pingunz.googlepages.com/human.png02:37
kwwiinow I'll work on the logo a bit02:39
PingunZwasn't the gdm going to be changed02:40
PingunZI mean .. that ' smooth ' gdm thingie02:40
kwwiiPingunZ: you mean the face browser or such?02:45
PingunZyes .. and it was animated etv02:45
PingunZ*etc02:45
kwwiiI was hoping so, but I have not heard anything about it in a while02:46
kwwiiI guess that if we do not turn compiz in by default it is impossible02:47
PingunZgdm has nothing to do with compiz02:49
kwwiiwell, how can you do such 3D stuff without AIXGL or such02:50
kwwiinot compiz, I know02:50
kwwiiwrong choice of words02:50
PingunZhmm02:51
PingunZif they decide to install video drivers correctly there will be no problem with that gdm02:51
kwwiithe video driver installation has been pushed back to feisty+102:53
PingunZoh02:55
PingunZwhat a shame02:55
kwwiiwell, we got a lot of flak about that02:56
PingunZwhat's flak ?03:04
darkmatterheh.. technically you wouldnt need accelerated gfx to do an animated gdm... you just cant get "3D" without it03:04
darkmatterPingunZ, getting bitched at03:05
darkmatterabout03:05
darkmatteretc03:05
PingunZok03:05
PingunZso rather negative comments ? :D03:05
darkmatteryup03:05
PingunZI get that03:05
PingunZty darkmatter03:05
PingunZbtw, how's the menu going ?03:05
darkmatterkwwii, you should fix them all and clone vista's login for spite ;)03:06
elkbuntudarkmatter, i believe kwwii rather likes his job03:06
PingunZ:)03:06
darkmatterPingunZ, soso... right now I'm not bothering with the schemas, I'm trying to figure out why the places arent showing.. lots of code to dig through03:07
darkmatterelkbuntu, :P03:07
PingunZdarkmatter, where can I get it ? :)03:07
PingunZa .deb prefferably, I don't really feel like compiling it from source03:08
kwwiidarkmatter: lol03:08
darkmatterPingunZ, gnome cvs just co gnome-main-menu/branches03:08
darkmatterno .debs03:08
PingunZdoh03:08
darkmatterits in really active dev03:08
PingunZoh03:09
kwwiiPingunZ: want to try another logo on that gdm?03:09
PingunZyeah, fine03:09
darkmatterI'm going to check for updates after my nappy... and finish hacking03:09
PingunZdarkmatter, I'll wait till I'm back from my snowboard vacation then ;)03:09
darkmatterlol03:09
kwwiihttp://sinecera.de/ubuntu.png03:10
elkbuntudarkmatter, you realise i just read that as 'after my diaper'03:10
kwwiilol, that is for a different kind of dark matter03:10
darkmatterPingunZ, the real deal is digging through all the code n backporting to 2.16... meh... I should just install fiesty03:10
PingunZI will, when i'm back :)03:11
darkmatterelkbuntu, sheesh... I'm not that old,,, its like... 2 more years before I need attends03:11
elkbuntukwwii, rofl03:11
darkmatterbbiab.. nature calls... and I answer03:12
kwwiiPingunZ: think you could make another screenshot of that?03:12
PingunZyou want me to replace the logo with that logo and then make a screenie ?03:13
kwwiiPingunZ: yes please :-)03:13
PingunZok03:13
PingunZhold on03:13
PingunZkwwii, http://pingunz.googlepages.com/ubuntu.png03:17
kwwiiPingunZ: excellent, thanks03:18
kwwii;-)03:18
PingunZnp03:18
elkbuntuaww.. decided against gloss?03:18
kwwiielkbuntu: that is the same logo as in the usplash03:18
kwwiimight have to add some more because it is on a light bg03:18
elkbuntuyeah, it's a wee bit blurry03:19
kwwiiok, I am out for a while - bll03:32
kwwiibbl03:32
kwwiiPingunZ: thanks again for the screenshot - I sent it to sabdfl to get his opinion on the rounded boxes03:33
PingunZsalute him from me, will ya ? :)03:34
kwwiilol, yeah03:37
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troy_sgreets06:26
troy_sthat new logo in GDM is too heavy.06:27
=== troy_s bikesheds a bit.
troy_sEdgy one still seems superior in elegance.06:31
troy_sand kwwii -- you should post your 1.9xxxx pixel size issue in #inkscape06:34
troy_ssee if there is a reasoning for it or whatever.06:34
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vdepizzolwill ubuntu.com website use a new layout after feisty release?07:23
EmxBAlike which one, vdepizzol ?07:26
vdepizzolEmxBA: this one? http://www.ingral.com.br/~vdepizzol/ubuntu/index.htm07:26
vdepizzol(not ready yet)07:26
EmxBAthat's pretty nice :)07:27
andreasnwow, nice navigation!07:29
vdepizzolthe header menu should look like this old mockup: http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1219/ubuntuhomejn0.png07:31
EmxBAFeisty artwork will be designed by kwwii -- of Kubuntu Edgy and KDE Oxygen Icon fame. He will be working closely with sabdfl in the design. Do not expect community involvement in defining this portion. kwwii is only going to do artwork, no job for others or...I don't get it :(07:34
vdepizzol:|07:36
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nysosymhi there :)09:35
troy_sgreets nysosym10:08
troy_snysosym: Missed you a couple of times that you were here.10:08
nysosymhi troy_s :)10:09
nysosymsure, i had to do some work10:09
troy_sDitto.10:09
troy_sHow are things?10:09
nysosymvery fine, by you?10:10
troy_sFine thanks.10:10
nysosymno problem, everytime again :)10:11
nysosymwhat do u do in these times? :)10:11
nysosymyesterday we have a conversation about the new fedora artwork and that these balloon will be a new metaphor for Fedora. My meaning was, that we need more african style in ubuntu, maybe a african elefant etc. . What do u think about troy_s?10:21
troy_snysosym: sorry10:28
troy_si was afk10:28
troy_sback now if you wish to discuss.10:28
troy_snysosym: I believe that Fedora is symptomatic of someone with formal training in the fine arts discipline.10:28
troy_sIt is nothing more than a manifestation of a schooled approach -- albeit without the implied discussion regarding audience.10:29
nysosymtroy_s: no problem ;)10:29
troy_sMy personal thoughts regarding 'overarching' Ubuntu design is that it should 100% avoid the plastic looks of vista / osx10:29
troy_sand turn 100% towards organics.10:29
troy_swood, stone, etc.10:30
troy_sthat said, it will never happen.10:30
troy_smotifs have been around since the dark ages, and Fedora simply implements them.  Again, anyone with 1% of schooled knowledge knows that a motif is one element of your design implementation.10:30
troy_sMotifs help to bridge continuity, establish your communication (what you are 'saying' between the lines of the design), etc.10:31
troy_sThere are also musical / sound motifs, but that is about sixteen generations past where the development of ubuntu is.  For more information on audio motifs, studying hitchcock doesn't hurt -- as his films used them extensively.10:32
nysosymyes, the plastic look, is a moldy, wood and stones are very good ideas with a future, bu a well formed wood/stone texture is very difficult to render and i think a lot of people wan't a window with a wood texture like the interior in her car10:34
troy_snysosym: Unfortunately it appears that Ubuntu will continue to chase the silly obsolete and archaic plasticky gloss of OSX/Vista and use rather cheeseball imagery for their packaging.10:34
troy_snysosym: Yes, organics have been tried (and often reoccur) in interior vehicle design.10:35
troy_sThat said, they have yet to be embraced regarding technology.10:35
troy_sI believe it could work wonderfully as it tends to communicate a more 'human' / 'real' / 'traditional value' sense -- as opposed to plastic gloss that communicates 'gadgetry'10:36
troy_sFurther, if you examine extremely high end appliances, the current trend is to integrate organics.10:36
nysosymfully agree with u10:36
troy_sIt all makes perfect sense, but it will never happen.10:36
troy_sA) We lack educated art folks.10:37
troy_sB) We lack a leader who values the design aspects of the product.10:37
troy_sC) We lack a target audience.10:37
troy_setc. etc.10:37
nysosymtroy_s: but there are other problems in a window with a wood/stone design, fonts are diffivult to read, small buttons go under in a flood of transitions etc.10:38
troy_sWe do have many talented folks interested, but their abilities will always be only as good as the default design direction permits them to be.10:38
troy_snysosym: All negotiable.10:38
nysosymkwwii: says that a art leader will be adjusted in the next time :)10:38
troy_sThose are certainly elements that need to be addressed, but to imply that they are insurmountable issues is simply not the case.10:39
troy_snysosym: I have zero expectations for Ubuntu design.10:39
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troy_sWhich is probably a healthy expectation at this point.10:39
nysosymhi andreasn10:40
andreasnhey nysosym10:40
troy_sFedora's work has set a new benchmark for all FS design in my opinion.10:40
nysosymtroy_s: sure, another point in the conversation with kwwii was a design specification for ubuntu design. Ma idea was a guidline for 2-3 years, in these time the design of ubuntu will improved in every release, but with a well formed goal.10:41
troy_snysosym: I don't know if it needs to take that long at all.10:41
troy_snysosym: Once you have an audience, a chosen design communication direction, etc., the bits fall into place rapidly.10:42
troy_sfor example, if you chose something like 'industrial', choosing a palette is relatively easy -- which also limits a plethora of other design issues.10:42
nysosymtroy_s: yes, but other way are insurmountable with a release circle of 6 month, we can't made a design revolution in every release of ubuntu10:42
troy_sagree10:43
troy_sbut we could realistically be far more flexible10:43
troy_seither target the LTS releases for entire new looks10:43
troy_setc.10:44
nysosymtroy_s: the design of OSX for example is uptodate since 5 Years and the design was improved in every osx release10:44
troy_snysosym: Yeah but it is starting to look pretty dated.10:44
troy_snysosym: Which again is why I stress that Ubuntu could easily grab the lead in design if it simply had a more innovative attitude.10:44
troy_splastics and gloss are bloody _done_10:44
nysosymtroy_s: yes, but what i would say, a design guid with a lifetime with 2-3 years aren't tooo long10:44
nysosym*guide10:45
troy_snysosym: LTS releases are 1.5 years.10:45
troy_sWith a fully firing team, I believe those targets would be very attainable.10:45
nysosymtroy_s: sure, but the question is, "what is the future"10:46
nysosymwe hav matt and gloss, semi matt in a different way, with very smooth transitions10:46
troy_snysosym: It doesn't take much to at least make a POKE at the future.10:47
troy_snysosym: Simply examine the design trends around you10:47
nysosymi think, are very less surfaces for the future10:47
troy_snysosym: In vehicles, furniture, architecture, etc.10:47
troy_sDesign 'trends' tend to reflect cultural values10:47
troy_sAs we are living with 80s computing trends, they tend to still reflect the values of the 80s10:48
troy_sbeing gadets, plastics, etc.10:48
nysosymtroy_s: ok, but the glossy look has a very high priority in many kinds of technology, TFT-Screens, Handys, Notebooks etc.10:49
troy_s90s introduced the idea that we have a responsibility to the environment -- recycling, global warming, etc., -- and by no fluke -- a good deal of 'organic grown' produce became mainstream.10:49
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troy_snysosym: Yes.  They are chasing yesterday.10:49
troy_snysosym: If you look to the entire spectrum of technology vendors10:49
troy_snysosym: How many are noted for their design innovation?  ;)10:49
troy_sthat is a pretty good indicator.10:49
troy_sI can think of Apple in the 90s.  That is about where it ends.10:50
nysosymohh i think i know many design inovations in technology, especially in concept cars. The glossy look is very actual, and aluminum although. That all thing that we have in the past or in these time10:51
nysosymreally new structures aren't availabe10:51
troy_swhen i said technology vendors, i was specifically referring to computing, sorry.10:52
troy_sSome car design has been innovated.10:52
troy_setc.10:52
troy_sbut the 'plastic' design issue is larger than simply discussing gloss -- there are many natural organic objects that offer specular gloss etc.10:54
troy_sit really is the 'full' communication package -- for example, look at Vista's packaging10:54
troy_sThe inner display 'retainer' clip is clearly visible, the product case is thick enough to expose the refraction of the plastic, etc.10:55
troy_sthe packaging artwork binds up the plastic glossy feel.10:55
troy_setc.10:55
troy_sVery clearly they are trying to catch onto the consumer 'must have this shiny plastic gadget' trend.10:55
nysosymand again i agree with u, i waiting for a long time, for something new on the desktop market. Organic structures are very good, u will have the feeling, that du doesn't use a computer, but a thing that u help to life your life.10:57
troy_sYep!10:57
troy_sBingo - smack on.10:57
troy_sComputers went from being expensive toys (Apple ] [ era)10:57
troy_sto useful 'office equipment' (Win 3.1 era)10:57
troy_sto very much a manifestation of life10:58
troy_sart/music/10:58
troy_seducation10:58
troy_setc.10:58
troy_sr10:58
troy_s'real life'10:58
troy_sand therefore, the no brainer design direction is to reflect those values in the design of the desktop computer / interface.10:58
nysosymyes, that's the trend, life your life on a PC, without a feeling that u use a PC. So many portals for people, games, blogs, video communitys ect.10:59
nysosymthat feeling should be banned on the desktop10:59
nysosymand again, these will be possible with multitouch displays11:00
troy_sRealistically, Ubuntu is a perfect candidate to establish the newer trend.11:00
troy_sIt simply 'fits' too well.11:00
nysosymfresh design in combination with a new input method will be the best thing to give people these feelings11:00
troy_sOk.  I must run out to pick up some things for the house.  Chat soon.11:03
troy_sGreat chatting with you again nysosym .11:03
nysosymok, have a nice day and hope to have such a nice conversation soon ;)11:03
nysosymin that way http://rebron.org/blogarchives/pimpzilla.jpg11:03
troy_sLOL11:04
troy_sthat's hilarious11:04
troy_sAwsome11:04
nysosymthese are although a very nice structur ;)11:04
troy_s_hilarious_11:04
troy_sHell that is funny.11:04
nysosymyes, but something new ;)11:05
troy_sDo you get your private messages?11:05
msikmaHmm, that screenshot is Dutch11:05
troy_sThat is damn funny11:05
nysosymyes i get them all :)11:05
nysosymtroy_s: ?11:22
nysosymjabber has lost the connection11:32
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nysosymhi darkmatter11:58
darkmattergood afternoon nysosym11:59
nysosymhow are u? :)11:59
darkmatterme?? I'm doing alright... just woke up actually. How are you doing?12:01
nysosymi need some sleep, but i have no reaction to do that ^^12:08

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